January 21, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode the guys swiftly break down the smash hit movie of 24/25 - WICKED!
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Darren Horne
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Paul Day
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Foreign.
Hello and welcome to Movies ina Nutshell with me, Mark Farquhar,
myself, Darren Horne
and I, Paul Day.
Together, we're here to bringyou quick, simple, entertaining breakdowns
(00:23):
of movies, whether you've seenthem or not.
From timeless classics tohidden gems or the latest blockbusters
in cinemas, this is your moviesafe space.
But unlike most moviepodcasts, we're not a review show.
That means no endless deepdives, no unnecessary opinions, just
value for your time.
If it's a movie you've seen,you will probably learn something
new. And if it's a movie youhaven't seen yet, we'll help you
(00:45):
decide if it's worth your time.
Don't stress if you haven'tseen that. Must watch classic. We've
got you covered witheverything you need to know.
Now there's a moment in everyepisode where we'll give you the
choice. You can pause thepodcast, go and watch the movie,
come back and join us as wehead into Spoiler City, or you can
just come with us for theride. So grab some popcorn, settle
in and let's dive into thisweek's movie. Let's discuss Wicked.
(01:12):
So we actually went to the cinema.
Did we had a road trip.
Actually went to the cinema together.
3:40 Something men made it tothe cinema.
We did our local cinema. Iwonder how many people go to their
local cinema these days.
I don't know. They should, though.
They should.
Definitely not enough. They'reall closing.
We enjoyed our experience, though.
We did. Let's look into thediagnostics. So it's available in
cinema? It's still in the cinema.
(01:33):
Still in the cinema.
It's been. I think it was inNovember. It came out.
Go support your local cinema.There you go.
It's rated PG. It's 2 hours40. The genre is musical slash fantasy.
Seems right, Yep. Stars ArianaGrande, Cynthia Erivo, Jonathan Bailey,
Ethan Slater, Michelle Yeohand Jeff Goldblum, as we discovered.
(01:53):
Well, you guys knew thatanyway, didn't you?
We knew that. We knew that.
So it's from UniversalPictures, directed by John M. Chu.
It was written by. It'stechnically. It's a weird one. Who
this was written by because.Comes from Wicked. The Life and Times
of the Wicked Witch of thewest is an American novel that was
published in 1995 by GregoryMaguire. But the. This has come from
(02:14):
the musical, I think thisfilm, which was written from that
by Winnie Holzman. That'swhere that's come from.
Music and lyrics by Stephen Swartz.
Does anyone know his Work.Never heard him before.
He's done lots of things, Ithink. I think he's done some of
the Disney stuff over theyears and things.
Yeah, it rang a bell. I haveseen it before and stuff. The budget
was 150 million, which is.
(02:35):
Pretty solid for now.
Yeah, I would say so.
Well, they knew such a big production.
It already has a brand. Italways has a name. The only things
expanding on the wizard of Ozis going to be.
I mean, I'm guessing that'sfor part one, though. So maybe like.
Yeah, for part two, maybe.
Haven't they. Have they shotpart two yet?
I think they did it back to back.
Yeah. You would do that,wouldn't you?
Some of you would. But it'salready taken 640 million.
(02:55):
Yeah.
So less than two months. It'staken over half a billion and.
Then tons of merchandise and stuff.
This is why I recommended it,because this was the big film of
the year. Was.
It was your choice.
It was my choice, as I said.We need to see this.
It's your synopsis first, orshould I read the official one first?
I'll try mine first.
Okay.
So I did struggle with thiswhen I went to write it because of
(03:17):
what you just said, that it'sbased on so many past things.
Okay.
So you know, if you haven'tgot any knowledge of the wizard of
Oz or the books or any old oreven the musical, it's like. So I
tried and then you can tell meit's rubbish and tell me what the
official one is. So I've putIn the magical land of Oz, we join
the talented green skinnedwitch Elphaba as she befriends popular
(03:42):
girl Glinda in university asthey embark on an adventure that
leads them to the wonderfulwizard of Oz in part one of this
film adaptation of the verypopular musical. So I did try and
put a bit of context behind it.
Yeah, that's valid. With themovie wizard of Oz and then the Wicked
show, everyone kind of knows.
I feel like people must have abit of content.
Can be a bit vague.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's my thing.
(04:05):
That was good. That was solid.
Okay. So what did they say?
They said the official says,misunderstood because of her green
skin, a young woman namedElphaba forges an unlikely but profound
relationship with Glinda, astudent with unflinching desire for
popularity. Following anencounter with the wizard of Oz,
their relationship soonreaches the crossroads as their lives
begin to take a very different paths.
(04:26):
Yeah, that's good.
That's.
I get that. Because that,because the bit for me was. How do
you describe this if youhaven't got that back? Knowledge.
But that, that, that does itpretty well. Yeah.
So story wise, going like A toB to C for someone who hasn't seen
this.
Yeah.
Choose many people, it seems.
No.
What's, what's the story?What's this about?
This is about. It's all thethings you would think it's about.
(04:47):
It's about racism, it's aboutoppression, it's about people being
other than and thereforehated. It's about fear. And it's
also about trying to overcomethose things and overcome those differences.
So the main plot themes,everything you've just said, but
is anything in the background? Anything?
Well, the bit I hadn't seenthe musical, so I'm very familiar
with the wizard of Oz. Hadn'tseen the musical Wicked. I'd heard
(05:08):
some of the songs. So the bitthat I didn't know was going to be
in it. And this is kind of acomparison for people who like these
films, but it had a kind ofHarry Potter world building feel
to it for me because they werein this university. Again, that's
not spoiling anything becauseit's in the synopsis. But they're
in this university world andit was like, okay, they've got this
kind of Harry Potter worldthing going on with the teachers.
(05:29):
And also if people have seenthe Wednesday show on Netflix, the
Addams Family spin offWednesday with Jenna Ortega, it had
that kind of thing for me aswell, which I wasn't expecting. But
I enjoyed that. I enjoyed thatelement of it.
Anything else to add?
It's. We might get into it abit later, but it is, it's very apt
that it's made now becauseit's kind of about Gaza.
(05:51):
Okay.
Because it's about theoppression of excluding people from
their land and, and takingover, doing a power grab.
And there's also lots of songsand musical fantasy.
Okay. So we'll go on toratings and reviews, see what the
grown ups thought. So grownUps Rotten Tomatoes gave it. The
(06:11):
critic review was 89, which ishigh for a critical review. And the
users are 95. So it's not muchin it.
No, it feels like it's gotvery positive. I'm kind of jumping
into some of the facts later,but a lot of the people who were
linked to some of the legacystuff of wizard of Oz have give this
lots of praise as well.
Yeah.
And it's not just skewed tothe fact that it's brand new. It's
had thousands and thousands ofreviews. So it's not like it's just
(06:32):
because, you know, somethingnew gets a few reviews and all good
makes it seem better than itis. This is like now this is. Everyone
loves this film.
Been warmly embraced by thesounds of it.
Yeah. IMDb was 7.9 10, as youknow, Metacritic 73 was the critic
1 out of 100 and the users was7.9 out of 10. So across the board
it's pretty.
I think they're kind of harsh.
(06:52):
I think they're harsh.
I think because it's sopopular, maybe people are being dragged
to it who don't really want tosee it and then they go and review
it down.
Yeah, there is that. It's avery specific film genre, isn't it?
Musical theater? Sort of, yeah.
And who goes on IMDb and ratesa film? What's that demographic like?
We don't do that.
I'll tell you now, thousandsupon thousands of people do. Critics
(07:15):
and just general public a lot.
And I always get to that bitwhere it says sign in to review and
I'm like, nah, it's okay.Enough people have reviewed it.
We need one of our listenersto message in and tell us if they've
ever reviewed something orrated something on IMDb. I don't
think these people exist. It's bots.
Please let us know if youhave. And what you said, what was
the film? What did you say?Because some people just like to
go to on things like just hit.But and obviously this is across
(07:39):
the board good. So people aregoing on to just.
Give it good reviews butpositively glowing.
Very well received andobviously still in the cinemas right
now. So let's see what thegrown ups thought. I've picked a
few, obviously I try and picka good and bad. Yeah, yeah, Indifferent.
So Tom Ernst of Original Sin.That's original. Dash C I N I guess
that's original play onoriginal cinema. See what they did
(07:59):
there? He says Wicked can attimes feel like a movie that's one
brick short of a road. Butwhen all is said and sung, it's still
a road paved in gold.
I hate the way he must havecome up with that in the shower and
got so excited and rushed toput it in his article. And it's kind
of lame, Darren being.
Critical of the critics there.
(08:22):
Roger Moore, his Back from the Dead.
Oh my, did he raise an eyebrow.
And Roger Moore of MovieNation. This picture should have
passed by in a sprint, notslogged past like an overlong, over
budgeted, Macy's Parade withmusic that would test the patience
of anyone, including thetoughest PG audience of all kids.
Roger Moore.
He wasn't a fan.
Roger Moore. Not liking it.
(08:42):
No.
I'm always wary of that.Because if you're a critic, can you
let your personal opinionimpact it? Or should it just be like,
was it in focus? Like, was this.
Is that what reviews are? Justa bunch of people's opinions?
I always used to like JonathanRoss because he would go watch a
kids movie and take his kidsand he would say, I thought this,
but my kids loved it. And I'mlike, okay, good, you took the target
(09:04):
audience with you.
It depends if the reviewer isthe target audience.
Yeah, totally.
There's a few kids in therewhen we saw it, and I feel like we're
quiet. They were quiet andglued to the screen the whole time.
That is true. That is true.
Yeah. In our experience, whenwe went, there.
Was a cross section of people.
Yeah, there really was.
Although we were almost theonly guys.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, that's true.Interesting. But across the board,
(09:26):
I don't think that's the case.
We were defying gravity. Seewhat I did there?
Okay. And our good friendPeter Travers.
Oh, go on.
PM this time writing for ABCNews, not Rolling Stone.
Cheating.
He. I looked him up. He writesfor all of the big hitters. ABC News.
He's put. How do I love thefilm of the hit stage musical? Let
me count the ways. Startingwith the way Cynthia Enviro and Ariana
(09:50):
Grande set the screen ablazeas frenemy witches and sets costumes
and songs to die for. Seeingthis joyous eruption once is not
enough. He was a big fan.
Peter's liking it. He'snormally fair.
Okay, yeah, that's fine.
We respect the hell out ofthat guy.
Yeah, Yeah.
I mean, we, we generally knewthat before even we saw it that this
was well received.
Yeah. Yeah.
(10:11):
So it just depends on you asthe viewer whether you're the target
audience or not. It'sinteresting what makes something
click with the masses and what doesn't.
Yeah, I'm fascinated by that.
There's no, there's no formulafor this.
Yeah.
Like something that wasn'tdestined to be a hit can be. And
something that everyone says,oh, it's a no brainer. Doesn't.
That was true of SlumdogMillionaire. Nearly didn't get distributor.
(10:32):
Yeah.
And who would have thoughtthat March of the Penguins, a documentary
about penguins, would havebeen the hit that it was like 10
years ago or whatever. That'syeah, there's a. There's a film writer
called William Goldman whowrote like Rich Cassie and the Sundance
Kid and Stephanie, Princess Bride.
Yeah.
And he always says nobodyknows anything when it comes to Hollywood.
They just have no cluesomething's going to be a hit or
(10:53):
not.
And with this one, it couldhave gone either way, really. Because,
you know, obviously fans ofthe Broadway musical, they're going
to be a big target audience.Fans of musical, sort of films, Greatest
Showman, that kind of thing,probably going to be the audience.
But this, when it hits bigger,like this one seems to have, it's
like, how did it get there?And then how did the kids get in?
(11:14):
You know, three hours withadverts. That's going to put a lot
of people off as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, true. Thatwas your first thing, I think you
said, Mark. Oh, no, it'sreally long.
That is true.
So it's, it's pushed through.It sort of pushed through that next
level of cultural significancealmost, doesn't it? It's been one
of the biggest hits of lastyear, I think.
(11:34):
So it's finished off on this,this section. It's pretty much, if
anyone doesn't know, it's thestory of how the Wicked Witch of
the west became that.
Yes.
At the very beginning. Like,where does that journey start?
It's your prequel of thewizard of Oz, isn't it? But in musical
form. So. So you may have seena film which I quite liked, but it
had more of a pattern thanthis one did, called Oz the Great
(11:55):
and the Powerful. And that waskind of the story of how the wizard
of Oz got to Oz and all thatkind of thing. So it's not that story,
but it's that kind of thingwhere it's sort of setting up how
the which of Evil Witch of thewest became the Evil Witch of the
west. That kind of in musicalform as well. And like you said about
it was.
Based on a book, a 1995 book.
That then went to the stage and.
(12:16):
That was adapted to a musicaland the music, the movies come from
this musical version. So.
And I was, I was readingbefore how the director said, you
know, they were going to tryand do it in one big film, but then
they felt it wouldn't give itjustice. So that's why they ended
up splitting into power.
They saw the franchise money,didn't they? So he didn't say that.
But you never know. Thatproducer stepped in and said, oh,
hang on a second, let's getthis one up.
(12:38):
So in a Nutshell. That iswicked. Now it's time to enter into
Spoiler City. So this, foranyone listening, this is at this
point, if you haven't seen it,there aren't many of you left. But
pause this podcast, go watchthe movie, come back if you don't
want to hear any spoilers. Itdoesn't mean to say we are going
to go out of our way to spoilthis film. It just means you're going
to hear some of our opinions.So we're probably going to give away
(13:00):
some of the plots, some of thethings that happen. So it's just
to beware. So is your choice.
We may even sing some of thesongs. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah.
Okay, let's head into SpoilerCity. Let's start with what did we
miss? What else is this movieabout? Or are there any plot holes,
(13:21):
errors? Was there cameos,Easter eggs? And Paul's gonna give
us a top five.
Give you some of those.
Okay.
Yeah.
Darren, I'll start with you.
Like I was saying, I thinkthere's a political feel to this.
I mean, it always was, evenwith the movie in the show. In terms
of racism. I mean, her beinggreen is a substitute for any kind
of other that you think of.Any other difference? Absolutely.
(13:43):
I think it would have beennice if it hammered that nail a little
bit harder, particularly interms of kind of like creeping fascism
and right wing politics and Idon't know a great deal about politics,
you know, pay a little bit ofattention. But we're in a really
scary situation right nowwhere lots of governments are leaning
towards the right. Lots of.There's this thing, I keep seeing
(14:05):
this recurring theme thatyoung boys are leaning to the right
and young women are leaning tothe left. And this is why. Why they're
not kind of connectinganymore. Then you look at what's
going on with Russia andUkraine, you look at what's going
on in Israel with Gaza, whichis absolutely devastating. And then
you've got this movie whereit's basically very similar. You've
got the other where, like,she's bad, she's different from us,
she's a different color, wedon't understand her, so we will
(14:27):
mock her and, and exclude herand do all these horrible things.
And then you've got obviouslythe wizard of Oz who's going around
rounding up the animals and isalmost kind of dumbing them down
as well. It's taken away theirability to speak.
That's right.
Which is a really scary thingbecause that's kind of happening.
Palestine. Have Just bannedthe news station Al Jazeera from
(14:47):
broadcasting in their countrybecause they were criticizing the
government.
Wow.
And that's. Look at how Trumpwent after the news and fake news.
I'm going to shut you down.Like, they're silencing people's
voices and at the same timethere is this massive issue. It's
not even just Gaza. That'sjust the main one that we talk about.
There's plenty of othercountries where horrible things are
happening and I think thismovie. Some people will get that.
(15:10):
Movies could be talking aboutthat. But I wish they just made it
a little bit more explicit.Like, I wish the animals had. Like,
yeah, they were intermingling,but I wish they had their own land
as well.
Yeah.
And the wizard of Oz wastrying to take over through the resources
or something like that.
Yeah, they kind of. They kindof did some of the obvious stuff.
Like everyone's staring at herbecause she's different.
Yeah.
Initial treatments and stufflike that, but they didn't really
(15:31):
go into it a bit more. Push ita bit more.
Yeah.
Highlight what it feels like.
And it wasn't quite clear yetwhy he wanted to get rid of the animals.
Like why?
Yeah, like. Yeah, they didn'treally explain that, did they? It
was sort of. I put a questionmark on that on my notes. Like the
animals, why. Why was he after it?
So I like. I mean, I feel likeI'm a bit down because it really
(15:53):
does make you think about howthis is not fiction.
Yeah. It's a classic tale ofsomeone being different, being ostracized
or being segregated for. Forthe way they look.
And her acting is superb. Andyou know, I read a few reviews that
were saying if I work. I'm afilm lecturer and I work with performing
arts lecturers who are exactlyas you would imagine them to be and
(16:16):
they are musical, just theaterlovers and they prefer the film to
the show. And I think one ofthe reasons is you get to do a close
up of these actors and you getto see Elphaba. Is that her name?
Yeah, her close ups. She eatsup the screen. She's a phenomenal
actress and she shows. She hasan ability to show the quiet scars
(16:41):
that she has that have builtup over like two decades. And she
deals with it with so muchpoise and so much strength and is
just a phenomenal character.So, yeah, I think that's predominantly
my take and also obviously itwas going to be quite gay because
wizard of Oz is like an iconof the kind of gay community and
it would Be horrendous to takethat away. And I think. And I've
(17:03):
read some stuff online aboutthis as well, but I think the gay
community are very, veryhappy. You've got. You've got some
actors who are openly gay. Ithink the lead is Cynthia, isn't
it?
Cynthia?
Fairly sure she's openly gay.There's. There's a character in the
background. Was it calledFiera or something?
Yeah. Was it Prince? Was it Prince?
But he was going around thatkind of party, just flirting with
(17:25):
everyone in sight, and it wasjust wonderful. And everyone was
there for it. Like, I feellike Oz is quite a bisexual place
to be.
Oh, yeah. Jonathan Bailey'scharacter. Yeah. The main Prince
sort of guy.
And, yeah, that was really,really cool. So, yeah, I think it's
great. I think if people watchit, maybe they won't get the political
thing, but if kids learn thatit's okay to be different, that's
(17:46):
wonderful. And if it's okay tobe gay or bisexual, that's good.
And I think the tensionbetween the two leads was there.
I think, you know, I jokedabout them being friends earlier
because, you know, that couldeasily be a story when they're 70
years old, live together,died, never married, because they
were like, oh, they were justfriends. And that. That was. That
(18:08):
was nicely done. It was alittle bit. It wasn't overt, but
particularly there were timeswhen there was a nice kind of tension
between them where it was justlike this.
It's different in this onebecause we all know where this ends.
Yeah.
So it's like we're trying towork out. Okay. Which is the point
where she goes that way.
Yeah. But I don't know.
Well, that's obviously parttwo or three.
Whatever I think they'redoing, too.
I think when we get there,we'll reveal that. But it's. It's
(18:31):
all the signs along the wayof, like, okay, she's had that obstacle.
Yeah.
She's.
This unfortunate event hashappened to her and the two very
different people who've cometogether and it's what's going to
lead them to go in theopposite direction.
Yeah. But also they might messwith our expectations. You know,
Tarantino.
I would like it if they did. Iwould like it if they did mess with
our expectations.
See, for. For me, a lot of myattention was kind of the musical
(18:55):
side of it and the sets andthe costumes and kind of the production
value of it, which, when I getto my facts in a minute, they did
a lot of it practically,rather than CGI computer graphic
effects, which I thought wasnice. But we're so used to watching
computer graphic effects.Sometimes I think we just assume
(19:16):
everything's computer graphicsnow. And it wasn't until I was reading
it, I was like, oh, okay,maybe I was watching it thinking
it was computer. But actuallya lot of it was practical sets. So
I enjoyed the spectacle sideof it as well, you know, because
obviously that's what theyused to do in the big.
It was quite immersive, wasn't it?
Very immersive world. So Ialways enjoy that element of it,
whether it's sci fi fantasy orwhatever. So, yeah, I think I spent
(19:37):
most of. It's one of them Iwant to see again so I can appreciate
other bits or even more of thesets and the world that they've built
there. And that was one of thethings that made the length of the
film. Because at one point Idid think, oh, this is, you know,
maybe they could have got tothings quicker. But then if they
did that, you'd have lost thesubtleties of the acting, like you
(19:59):
were saying before, which isreally, really good. And you'd have
lost some of that detailprobably of some of the sets and
the things. So that's the partI enjoyed the most, I think, taken
away from me and how theynormally have it on a Broadway stage,
which obviously you gotlimitations. And now they said the
world is yours to do what youwant. And they've built this world
of Oz. So maybe that's why youwere saying they prefer this version
(20:20):
potentially, because it's gotthat big scope.
Another thing, again, I'mseeing this a lot, you know, what's
happening to young men andyoung men are getting a kind of going
to dark places at the moment.And I've read some stuff about it
and it's that on the whole,young white guys have been told that
they're worthless and they'rethe cause of all the issues. And
we hear about the patriarchybeing the issues. You know, I think
(20:41):
I said when we were puttingthis together, does the world really
need to hear from like 34 yearold white, straight cisgender men?
But, you know, here we are, wecan do this. And. But again, and
I'm okay with it, but I thinkat some point I'm hoping we can change
the narrative because, youknow, you've got this amazing world.
It's run by an old white guy.He's evil and he's dominating all
(21:01):
the other species and otherethnicities and everything. And I
just. There was just A momentto release this kind of sadness about
that. Yeah, we're talkingabout race, and obviously the white
guys, the bad guy. And I getthat on the whole, we have done bad
things. Not us three or me,but not you guys. For yourself.
Evil manufacturer.
(21:22):
Well, I mean, anytimeconversations like this happen, I
think if. If it helps anybody,then it's. It's worth doing. But
also, we're just. We're justentertainment show. So it's not like
we don't. We don't have. Wedon't bear this responsibility to,
like, make people think orfeel a certain way. We just. We just
break down movies. But in. Indoing that, we end up having these
diversions where we enter intoserious conversation, which the film
(21:43):
has brought up in the first place.
Although maybe I was just sadthat it was Jeff Goldblum being mean.
It's like, dude, what are you doing?
Jeff finds a way.
But I did like, he's a love.See, Michelle. Yeah. Honestly, since
doing everything everywhereall at once, she's been getting some
great parts. She wasphenomenal in this and really, again,
gutted about the twist withher, but loved her fashion. She would.
(22:07):
I saw on a website, it wascalled Obsessed, that she would be
great on, like, RuPaul's DragRace. I was like, yes, I would love
her to be a judge. That wouldbe amazing.
And I. And of course, Jeff. Ido love Jeff. I was thinking, how
can I. That's what I wasthinking. I was like, how can I praise
Jeff? Because, yeah, I justlove the way he takes a phrase and
makes it very natural and thentakes it in his own Jeff way. And
(22:28):
if I was like, oh, it's justJeff Goldblum being Jeff Goldblum,
it's like, I don't care.That's what I love about Jeff Goldblum.
That is him.
So, yeah, I'm all for, youknow, killing those in charge.
But Jeff Goldblum.
Yeah, that's it.
So that's probably what, like,you say it makes the betrayal even
harder because, you know,we're used to loving Jeff doing his
thing. The other bit you mighthave missed, I was almost going to
(22:51):
put it my top five facts, butlet's just throw it out there because
the musical fans are going toknow this straight off anyway. There's
a scene where they go into thetown in the land of Oz, and there's
a musical scene talking aboutthe history of Oz and everything,
and these two characters popup singing about the history of Oz,
and it's actually the twooriginal actresses From Broadway.
That's cool.
Singing the song. So one ofthem being, hopefully I'll say these
(23:14):
names right, KristinChenworth, who was the original Glinda
and Adina Menzel.
Oh God, she's phenomenal.
Who was the original Elphabaon Broadway. So some of you will
know her as the voice of Elsain the frozen films. The voice of
Let it Go. So do you rememberthe bit I'm talking about where there's
like a stage and then they popup in the song? So they're actually
(23:35):
the original stars ofBroadway. And I was geeky enough
to know that and I was like,oh, oh, that's a good Easter egg
for, you know, the wicked fansof Broadway musical. Because they
were like telling the pastthat I'm like, oh, well that that
makes sense because they werethe past. And they've both got incredible
voices too.
Facts of the Day. I'm going,I'm still calling it Facts of the
Day until someone tells us.
Facts of the Day is good. Thatworks. There's a play on my name.
(23:57):
It's all good.
What do you got?
So there is a lot of facts iswhat I learned. So if you want to
go fact hunting, you will finda lot of facts for this film.
We have a maximum of five, Iwould say.
Yeah, I'm just going to picksome up and throw. Throw some out
here. Go for it. I'd alsorecommend if you get the chance to
listen to the composer,Stephen Swartz. I watched a clip
on. It was Instagram or TikTokor something. Him talking about the
(24:20):
themes and he sat with a pianoand it's amazing how much like stuff.
You would miss that. Subtly inthe background of the themes and
the music, he starts talkingabout how he's got this little thing
where he's used the notes ofSomewhere over the Rainbow but he
changes it slightly in thetheme. And. And also he talks about
(24:41):
the themes of the music thathe uses for the. I'll call the Wicked
Witch. But she's not that yet,is she? So Elphaba, there's themes
he uses to make it what youwere saying where they're mocking
her at the start, but thenthey use them same themes in Defying
Gravity where it changes uptop. Yes.
It was also just why you'vementioned that Defying Gravity was
the way to end that first part.
(25:01):
That was big curtain, closer,finale and.
It just kept going.
Yeah. And he talks about thatin this little clip I watched as
well. He talks about how hewanted to make it feel like it kept
building and building andbuilding. So anyway, anyway, let's
give you some facts. So as wesaid, practical sets were built and
supplemented with cgi ratherthan being filmed on green or blue
screens. The director wantedthe world of Oz to feel like a real
(25:23):
place rather than justcomputer generated. And this included
planting 9 million tulips toserve as part of the landscape for
Munchkin Land. So that's whatI mean. We're used to cgi, so we're
thinking, oh, it's probablyjust. It's like, no, no, they planted
9 million tulips. And one ofhis influences was Hook, Steven Spielberg's
(25:45):
Hook, which used practicaleffects and they built the pirate
ships. And I think there was alot of production hell on that thing.
But he looked at Hook andsaid, yeah, I want to build Oz as
much as I can. They got thatone. Steven Swartz, we were just
talking about the composer andlyricist of the film. He wanted to
modernize Galinda's bignumber, popular by giving it a more
(26:06):
hip hop style rhythm andchanging it to make it a bit cooler.
Ariana grand did, was deadagainst the suggestion and said,
absolutely not. Don't do it. Iwant to be Glinda. I don't want to
be Ariana Grande playingGlinda. So fortunately, in the finished
show, the number is much likeit was on Broadway.
A shame. Exactly. I think thatsong landed.
(26:26):
You think? Do you know? Oh,well, there you go. Blame Ariana
Grande for not wanting to.Ariana Grande. So many facts. So
many facts. I'll give you afew more and then stop me when you
get bored. I'll just edit themout. You won't know that listener.
You'll just edit them out.You'll never know. So the name which
I keep struggling topronounce, the Wicked Witch Elphabar,
(26:47):
was created by taking thephonetic pronunciation of the original
wizard of Oz author L. FrankBaum's initials, lfb, which became
Elphaba, which I wish I'd readbefore because it might have helped
me pronounce it through therest of this podcast. The vocals
for the ensemble parts werepre recorded by a number of Broadway
(27:09):
performers, including some ofthe Illuminate from the Wicked on
Broadway, as opposed to beingsung live on set like the lead vocals
were, which is one of my otherfacts, which is she actually sings
Defying Gravity live on theset. I think. I think a lot of them
did it live on the set. A bitlike Les Mis, where the idea pieces,
that kind of thing in.
Okay, one more impressive One more.
(27:31):
Okay, let's have a look. Thisis the first non Disney musical to
gross over $100 milliondomestically in its open weekend.
Impressive. So it's time fortakeaways, which is where we give
our opinions on the film. Ourthoughts. I'll start with Paul, because
it's your choice.
Okay. I enjoyed it. I was,like I said earlier, wrapped up in
(27:54):
the world. Thought theperformances were amazing, thought
the actual production designwas amazing. Jeff Goldblum's in it.
I love that. Even though. Boo.Damn you, Jeff. The only thing I
would say though is I probablyneed to see it again to appreciate
it more. There's othermusicals maybe that I saw first time
that enjoyed more. I feellike, like I'm cheating all the critics
(28:16):
and all the public who lovethis film by saying that, but if
that makes sense. So the firsttime I maybe came out of. I use Greatest
Showman as an example. I cameout of that like, oh, that hit me
right in the spot. This onewas a bit more. It hit me a bit later
when I was thinking about itmore. So I feel like when I watch
it again, I'm going toappreciate it more because I wasn't
familiar with the songs asmuch because I think with the Greatest
(28:38):
Shaman, I had the album onbefore I even went to see the film.
That kind of thing. Or there'sother musicals that I've just watched
since I was a kid that justingrained in your brain. Whereas
this one obviously was brandnew to me. I've never seen the Broadway.
I've only heard the songDefying Gravity. So all the other
ones were new. So it took me awhile to kind of get into that new
world and everything. But Ifeel like when I watch it again,
I can appreciate it more,especially knowing how much practical
(29:00):
set stuff went into it becauseI like that kind of behind the scenes
filmmaking. So for me,excellent film, really enjoyed it.
But I think next time I watchit, I'll get more out of it than
I did on the first few. Andbecause the first time I was a bit
like just taking it all in.
There was a lot to take and.
There was a lot to take in.So. Yeah, but yeah, if you're a fan
of musical theatre, if you'rea fan of obviously this kind of genre,
(29:23):
go and see it. If you're notand you hate people jumping into
songs every so often, maybeit's not for you. But then again,
if you like a Disney filmpotentially where they do a song
now and again, I think youmight still be okay. But I'm guessing
you guys will back me up onthat or disagree.
The thing with Jeff Goldblum,I think that made me the saddest
part. He isn't that, you know,he was a white guy. It was the impact
(29:45):
on those monkeys because youcould tell really early on that they
were like beaten down. Andwhen he's saying, oh, so and so has
always had this dream offlying and you look at his face.
No, he hasn't. Then later on,it's like, you want to see your family
again, find her. Like thesemonkeys are slaves. Like, oh, yeah,
that's a good angle. Actually,the fact that they're hurting animals,
(30:07):
you know, because that's likeyou, you immediately hate the person
who's doing it.
Yeah. Your thoughts and down.
Overall, there's lots of goodthings about it. I mean, there's
talent involved. Clearly, it'sphenomenal. And I love all the messages
that we've talked about. Andyou know, I love the fact you've
got a woman of color as thelead who is phenomenal. And not just
as a phenomenal singer, butlike I was saying earlier, with her
(30:28):
strength, her poise, herresilience, just amazing to see that,
you know, she's.
A Broadway actress and she'slike, she's come from. I'm sure.
I think I've heard that that'swhere she comes from because I was
surprised at how. Because justbecause you can do Broadway doesn't
mean you work on screen.
No. This is what I'm thinking.So that for her must be a big breakthrough.
The chemistry, those two was electric.
Absolutely. So I love thefact, and particularly she's a gay
(30:51):
actress as well, that'sphenomenal. So basically, if you're
any kind of like, other thanyou've got a hero here and you know,
we're incredibly, incrediblyprivileged because we grew up with
so many heroes.
Oh yeah.
Indiana Jones, James Bond,most of the Marvel cast, you know,
loved it when Black Pantherfinally got made. But yes, you know,
it's great when people can seethemselves on screen. It's important.
(31:13):
So I love that. Love themessaging. I thought Aviana, I couldn't
work out if she was actingbrilliantly or awfully. And what
I mean by that is Glinda waslike this empty headed, vacuous nothing.
And I, I don't think, I thinkwhen ever Elphaba was on screen,
(31:34):
I forgot Ariana Grande wasthere. She would just kind of disappear.
She would dominate, wouldn't she?
Yeah, Elphaba would.
Yeah.
Even when she even when shewas doing nothing, my eyes were always
on her.
So either she was an intense character.
Yeah.
I feel like maybe that was thepoint, though. I'm gonna go in Ariana's
defense and say that they werepretty much opposites, aren't they
opposite? So she's meant to bethat, like, vacuum, but like you
(31:56):
say, there's nothing there.
No, exactly.
Whereas Elphaba had everything.
Yeah.
She's got the depth yetbecause that character's surface.
I want to be popular. I wantpretty pink things. And yes, that
was. I was kind of curiousabout that also.
Because of that, she hasnothing to deal with in life, whereas
Elphaba's got to fight for everything.
This is also anotherinteresting thing that I think about
life is that you only grow asa character through pain.
(32:17):
Yeah.
And if Glinda has had no painand failure and. Exactly.
There's a lot more to belearned from that than everything
being given to our plate.
Devastating lesson of lifethink is that you have to experience
pain to grow. And it's.
I feel like she learns fromAlphabet as the story goes on.
Yes.
I warmed to her as the filmwas going along because she was obviously
the warming to her and I sortof felt that, yeah, I think it was
(32:38):
a good job.
And also there's lots. I mean,it's a. It's a movie with lots of
two dimensional characters,you know, just kind of in the background.
And you know, they say, oh,that his personality trait is he's
flirty. Okay. But that's finebecause Alphabet kind of carries
it. But it also made merealize that I can never really understand
when people say, oh, I don'tlike Marvel movies or Star wars or
(33:00):
Lord of the Rings. I said, youjust need to sit with me and I will
give you a PowerPointpresentation about why it's amazing.
And I think 10 minutes in Iwas like, this is what people mean
when they say they don't likeStar wars or Marvel. Because I couldn't
stand this movie. I was boredfrom minute one. And I did well up
at one point because how canyou not? I mean, there's some emotional
scenes. You know, Defyinggravity was powerful, but I was just
(33:24):
bored. And I'm. I'm fullyaware that I'm in no way, shape or
form the target audience forthis. I would. There's plenty of
people I would recommend itto, people who, who love the show
or the messages that it gives.The messages they get, they love
it. But I definitely wasn'tthe target audience. Didn't really
Enjoy it at all. I probably.I'm not. I don't think I would even
(33:47):
watch the second part.
Okay. Well, I thought I wasgonna shit on this film.
Came from nowhere there. He'dpraise so much. I was like, he must
have really enjoyed this.
I'm of a similar vein, but Idid. There was part of it I enjoyed.
I'm not a musical fan, so forme, the longer it went on and it
was a long film, every time.Every time they used a song to carry
(34:09):
the story, that's when it wentdownhill for me.
Yeah.
If I could listen to a versionof that without some of the music,
especially towards the end.Yeah, it was. There was too much
of it. But some of the sceneswere really intense and I was quite
enjoying the story of it. But,yeah, the musical side of it just,
I. For me, you bursting intosong and dance to as part of the
story just doesn't work forme. I'm the same as you. I'm not
(34:32):
the target audience for this,but. But, yeah, I thought, like,
this one, the CGI and the factit was real, real sets and stuff,
I really enjoyed that. Andthere was some powerful scenes in
there, like, quite emotional,like you said, Darren. But, yeah,
I'm not the target audience.There was. Towards the end, I was
bored.
And I do like, you know, Ilike the Greatest Showman. My daughter
gets me playing the soundtrackto that in the car all the time.
(34:52):
It's solid. Loved Hamiltonthought that was superb, but I didn't
like things like I. Was itinto the Woods.
Yeah, into the Woods Istruggled with. Yeah, I struggled
with that one. I enjoyed bitsof it, but, yeah, that was another
similar. If into the woods isyour bag, this is on your wavelength.
(35:13):
And if I did give it. If I didgive it one criticism, which I maybe
held back on before, it wasthe length of the film. And, you
know, I'm fine with longerfilms, but this just felt like there
was a short movie in therethat was a bit snappier somewhere.
And if they were going to doit in two halves, you know, two short
halves would have maybe been abit punchier. There were that moment.
(35:35):
The bits that dragged areprobably different from me to you
because obviously I quite likethe musical bits of it, but I get
what you're saying. So for me,maybe some of the talkie bits was
like, oh, come on, when's the next?
I think we all thought it wastoo long, but for different reasons.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Andagain, if I had to pick, if you put
Oz the Great and The Powerful,with James Franco and Michelle Williams
(35:56):
and Zach Braff. And I'm tryingto remember who else was in that
film. What's she called? FromFamily Guy? Me. I always say her
name wrong. Mila. Yeah, yeah,yeah. I'd probably. If I had the
two films to watch right now,I'd probably pick that one, because
I did enjoy that one. Butagain, if you look at the critical
reviews, you'd be like, no,no, that film's terrible, but this
one's better. So it's whatyou're into. And as a kind of prequel,
(36:20):
wizard of Oz. Probably pickthat one again. I can imagine the
people screaming at me now athome, saying, what? But I enjoyed
them both.
Okay, that's what we thought.So to finish off this section, let's
do Test of Time. I think wehad a thought of. It was totally
flipping on its head.
Hold up. The Test of Time.
If this was released 20 yearsago. Because obviously, if something
(36:41):
was.
Yeah, we do the flip.
If we were talking aboutsomething that was released 20 years
ago, we would talk about whatwould happen if it's released now.
But if something's out now. Ifthis was released in 20 years ago,
what would happen?
I said 20 years ago. I thoughtyou meant the 80s.
No, no, no, no, no. It's theyear 2025. Don't. Oh, dear.
2004.
So you're talking like 2000. Yeah.
Okay. I'm trying to remember.So make sure it's come out in 99.
(37:05):
We're kind of looking. Idon't. I think it. I don't think
it would have done the moneythat it's doing now. I think we weren't
quite ready with diversity.And, I mean, 20. Had Black Panther
come out then.
No, no.
If you're pre Black Panther.Yeah, you're it. It's. I don't think
we've actually come alongreally, really far in the last 20
(37:27):
years. And looking at thegeneration, you know, that I teach,
the teenagers, they're so muchmore open with. With their own identities.
There's so much moreacceptance about everything. I think
it would have struggled, and Ithink it would have been critiqued
a lot more. Like people aresaying it's too woke now.
I feel it would have strugglednot because of them reasons, because
(37:48):
different reasons. I don'tthink there was many musicals knocking
around in 2004. Maybe Chicago.
Oh, yeah.
So the only way I can see itwould have done well is kind of if
it had gone on the Chicagowave, because I think that did pretty
well. Didn't it?
Maybe the Broadway musicalversion would have done okay, but
not the movie.
Movie, yeah, back then,potentially. So the only way I can
see it doing as well as itdone now, but probably nowhere near
(38:10):
the figures it's getting, isit? Sort of. Because I think Chicago
was like 2003, 2004. Let meknow if I'm wrong, kids. But yeah,
I think it might have got abit of the wave of Chicago. But if
that had come out beforeChicago, I think, yeah, maybe it's
too much.
We've got good stuffhappening. Like, I like the fact
that Little Mermaids played bya black actress as well. Like, most
(38:32):
recently, we're makinginteresting changes. I like the fact
there's discussion aroundJames Bond potentially being black
as well.
Oh, I have no problem withthat whatsoever.
No, quite right. And there'ssome really cool actors who could
do that role. And then whoelse would have Doctor who? So, yeah,
we've got some cool stuff kindof happening.
Okay, so we're exiting Spoilercity. That ends that section. So
(38:52):
this was your movie choice?
Was.
So it's. You're worth a watch, Paul.
Foreign Worth a watch. Okay.This kind of ties in with the monkeys
thing, which I didn't realizeuntil you started talking about monkeys.
So I'm currently watching a TVshow at the moment. It's based off
(39:14):
the Bruce Willis, Brad Pitt,Madeleine Stove film, the Terry Gillingham
film 12 Monkeys, which cameout in what, 90 something? Yeah,
somewhere in the 90s. So ifyou've seen that film, this is the
TV show adaptation of thatfilm. However, you don't really need
to have seen the film to watchthis TV show. I don't think it's
(39:35):
a widely known TV show, buteverything I've read, everyone was
it. So this came outabout2015, something like that. So
it's fairly recent, but wherecan people watch it? So I'm watching
it on Blu ray.
Of course you are. Of course I am.
Because I missed the physicalmedia. I haven't actually looked
where else you can watch it,but I think it is on a few things
(39:56):
or it's at least. Okay, he'slooking for you. I'll talk about
it while he's.
Haven't seen on any of themain ones.
Well, I'd heard about it, so Ilooked it up and there it was on
Blu Ray.
So gonna be HBO or Paramountor something.
I feel it's gonna be onsomething like that. It was on the
Sci Fi Channel. I think it wasmade by the Sci Fi Channel.
Oh, it's on ITVX free of charge.
There you go.
(40:16):
People in the uk. Itvx.
Well you need TV license.
You do?
I think so, yeah.
Obviously it's availableAmazon prime. You can buy it for
189. YouTube 199.
Really? For the whole season?
Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
You don't get four seasons.
Don't get that four seasons.
You don't get that Blu rayquality. Just saying.
Does it need four seasons? Howfar are you in?
(40:37):
Okay, so I'm in season two. Soseason one had me hooked in season
two. Like I probably shouldhave seen the whole series before.
I recommend it but fromeverything everyone's saying it seems
to keep building and actuallyit's quite satisfying ending and
that's the people doing it.
Dark and gripping.
It's very dark. It's verygripping. It's very confusing. There's
time travel all over theplace. There's timelines everywhere.
(40:58):
There's paradoxes kicking off.If you're into sci fi, paradox, time
travel stuff. I'm reallyenjoying this series. It's not trying
to be the movie. The firstepisode you see themes of the film.
There's characters. BradPitt's character is actually played
by a woman. Talking about someof you saying and actually it's a
really good fit as to thatcharacter. But yeah, I'm almost at
(41:21):
the end of season. No, I'vejust started season three. I tell
I was in a binge watch moodthe other day after Christmas. I
was battling through them. Isay battling through I couldn't wait
to watch the next thingbecause there's so many things going
on right then.
So we put out, we put out somecallers last couple of episodes asking
for our listeners to choosesome movie breakdowns. Considering
all choice and consideringthis was done before we'd even launched
(41:43):
we got quite a few recommendations.
So thank you.
We've gone through it, we'vegone back and forth usually I think
in the future if we getwhatever it gets the most, if we
get the same movie mentioned afew times we'll just go with that.
But this time we got a widecross section from various people
so we've chosen RosieHodgson's choice is Shawshank Redemption.
(42:04):
That's what we're going to gofor. Absolute classic. So that like
as we've discussed before it'salways in the top three of on all
of the critics websites it'salways up there. Some sits number
one, sometimes it's number three.
Big thank you Rosie. It meansI get to watch it again.
Yeah, we've all seen it. Weall know I haven't watched it in
a long time, but I reallyenjoyed it.
It's a weird movie because, Idon't know, it's almost like Shinda's
list, like what kind of moodyou have to be in to be like, oh,
(42:26):
you know what, I'm going topop that movie on tonight. Yeah,
it's not a date movie.
Depends on your date. Yeah, itdoes, but okay, so that's what we're
going to. Next time it will beShawshank Redemption chosen by our
listener, Rosie Hodgson.Right. So thanks for listening guys.
At some point we need to getbranded mugs so that Rosie would
(42:46):
get like a mug with her nameon it.
Yeah, yeah, we can do that. Wecould do that at some point. Download.
I mean we've only justliterally right of the gate, we're
doing merchandise. Wow.Thinking way ahead. Merchandise.
I like it. Okay, so thanks forlistening guys. If you have any thoughts
on today's episode, on themovie, did you go and see it? What
did you think? Do you anaysayer or did it. Was it what you
(43:09):
wanted it to be? Let us knowwhat you thought. Also, if you've
got any ideas of what filmsyou'd like us to break down, please
do send them in. We will get across section of those. If any movies
jump out us, we will probablytake that into consideration and
give it a go. And we will alsogive you a shout out on the show
as well if you've got anyquestions or if you're any movie
related stories, anythingfunny, inspirational or embarrassing
(43:31):
happened while the cinema.While you're watching the movies.
We'd love to. If we get somegood ones, we will definitely read
those out on the show. All ourcontact details are in the show notes.
Please get in touch, let usknow what you think. We'd like to
hear from you guys and also ifyou want to help us, we're just brand
new. Best thing you can do isjust share the show. Share this episode.
Hit the share button onwhatever app you're listening to.
Give us a like a rating, areview. All these things help us,
(43:52):
especially for a new show, getnoticed. Okay, so this is me, Mark
saying.
Goodbye and me Darren sayingadios and.
Me trying to think of a quotefrom Wicked. Something has changed
within me.
There we go.
There you go.
Thanks, Paul. Bye.
Foreign.
Hello and welcome to Movies ina Nutshell with me, Mark Farquhar,
myself, Darren Horne
and I, Paul Day.
Together, we're here to bringyou quick, simple, entertaining breakdowns
(00:23):
of movies, whether you've seenthem or not.
From timeless classics tohidden gems or the latest blockbusters
in cinemas, this is your moviesafe space.
But unlike most moviepodcasts, we're not a review show.
That means no endless deepdives, no unnecessary opinions, just
value for your time.
If it's a movie you've seen,you will probably learn something
new. And if it's a movie youhaven't seen yet, we'll help you
(00:45):
decide if it's worth your time.
Don't stress if you haven'tseen that. Must watch classic. We've
got you covered witheverything you need to know.
Now there's a moment in everyepisode where we'll give you the
choice. You can pause thepodcast, go and watch the movie,
come back and join us as wehead into Spoiler City, or you can
just come with us for theride. So grab some popcorn, settle
in and let's dive into thisweek's movie. Let's discuss Wicked.
(01:12):
So we actually went to the cinema.
Did we had a road trip.
Actually went to the cinema together.
3:40 Something men made it tothe cinema.
We did our local cinema. Iwonder how many people go to their
local cinema these days.
I don't know. They should, though.
They should.
Definitely not enough. They'reall closing.
We enjoyed our experience, though.
We did. Let's look into thediagnostics. So it's available in
cinema? It's still in the cinema.
(01:33):
Still in the cinema.
It's been. I think it was inNovember. It came out.
Go support your local cinema.There you go.
It's rated PG. It's 2 hours40. The genre is musical slash fantasy.
Seems right, Yep. Stars ArianaGrande, Cynthia Erivo, Jonathan Bailey,
Ethan Slater, Michelle Yeohand Jeff Goldblum, as we discovered.
(01:53):
Well, you guys knew thatanyway, didn't you?
We knew that. We knew that.
So it's from UniversalPictures, directed by John M. Chu.
It was written by. It'stechnically. It's a weird one. Who
this was written by because.Comes from Wicked. The Life and Times
of the Wicked Witch of thewest is an American novel that was
published in 1995 by GregoryMaguire. But the. This has come from
(02:14):
the musical, I think thisfilm, which was written from that
by Winnie Holzman. That'swhere that's come from.
Music and lyrics by Stephen Swartz.
Does anyone know his Work.Never heard him before.
He's done lots of things, Ithink. I think he's done some of
the Disney stuff over theyears and things.
Yeah, it rang a bell. I haveseen it before and stuff. The budget
was 150 million, which is.
(02:35):
Pretty solid for now.
Yeah, I would say so.
Well, they knew such a big production.
It already has a brand. Italways has a name. The only things
expanding on the wizard of Ozis going to be.
I mean, I'm guessing that'sfor part one, though. So maybe like.
Yeah, for part two, maybe.
Haven't they. Have they shotpart two yet?
I think they did it back to back.
Yeah. You would do that,wouldn't you?
Some of you would. But it'salready taken 640 million.
(02:55):
Yeah.
So less than two months. It'staken over half a billion and.
Then tons of merchandise and stuff.
This is why I recommended it,because this was the big film of
the year. Was.
It was your choice.
It was my choice, as I said.We need to see this.
It's your synopsis first, orshould I read the official one first?
I'll try mine first.
Okay.
So I did struggle with thiswhen I went to write it because of
(03:17):
what you just said, that it'sbased on so many past things.
Okay.
So you know, if you haven'tgot any knowledge of the wizard of
Oz or the books or any old oreven the musical, it's like. So I
tried and then you can tell meit's rubbish and tell me what the
official one is. So I've putIn the magical land of Oz, we join
the talented green skinnedwitch Elphaba as she befriends popular
(03:42):
girl Glinda in university asthey embark on an adventure that
leads them to the wonderfulwizard of Oz in part one of this
film adaptation of the verypopular musical. So I did try and
put a bit of context behind it.
Yeah, that's valid. With themovie wizard of Oz and then the Wicked
show, everyone kind of knows.
I feel like people must have abit of content.
Can be a bit vague.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's my thing.
(04:05):
That was good. That was solid.
Okay. So what did they say?
They said the official says,misunderstood because of her green
skin, a young woman namedElphaba forges an unlikely but profound
relationship with Glinda, astudent with unflinching desire for
popularity. Following anencounter with the wizard of Oz,
their relationship soonreaches the crossroads as their lives
begin to take a very different paths.
(04:26):
Yeah, that's good.
That's.
I get that. Because that,because the bit for me was. How do
you describe this if youhaven't got that back? Knowledge.
But that, that, that does itpretty well. Yeah.
So story wise, going like A toB to C for someone who hasn't seen
this.
Yeah.
Choose many people, it seems.
No.
What's, what's the story?What's this about?
This is about. It's all thethings you would think it's about.
(04:47):
It's about racism, it's aboutoppression, it's about people being
other than and thereforehated. It's about fear. And it's
also about trying to overcomethose things and overcome those differences.
So the main plot themes,everything you've just said, but
is anything in the background? Anything?
Well, the bit I hadn't seenthe musical, so I'm very familiar
with the wizard of Oz. Hadn'tseen the musical Wicked. I'd heard
(05:08):
some of the songs. So the bitthat I didn't know was going to be
in it. And this is kind of acomparison for people who like these
films, but it had a kind ofHarry Potter world building feel
to it for me because they werein this university. Again, that's
not spoiling anything becauseit's in the synopsis. But they're
in this university world andit was like, okay, they've got this
kind of Harry Potter worldthing going on with the teachers.
(05:29):
And also if people have seenthe Wednesday show on Netflix, the
Addams Family spin offWednesday with Jenna Ortega, it had
that kind of thing for me aswell, which I wasn't expecting. But
I enjoyed that. I enjoyed thatelement of it.
Anything else to add?
It's. We might get into it abit later, but it is, it's very apt
that it's made now becauseit's kind of about Gaza.
(05:51):
Okay.
Because it's about theoppression of excluding people from
their land and, and takingover, doing a power grab.
And there's also lots of songsand musical fantasy.
Okay. So we'll go on toratings and reviews, see what the
grown ups thought. So grownUps Rotten Tomatoes gave it. The
(06:11):
critic review was 89, which ishigh for a critical review. And the
users are 95. So it's not muchin it.
No, it feels like it's gotvery positive. I'm kind of jumping
into some of the facts later,but a lot of the people who were
linked to some of the legacystuff of wizard of Oz have give this
lots of praise as well.
Yeah.
And it's not just skewed tothe fact that it's brand new. It's
had thousands and thousands ofreviews. So it's not like it's just
(06:32):
because, you know, somethingnew gets a few reviews and all good
makes it seem better than itis. This is like now this is. Everyone
loves this film.
Been warmly embraced by thesounds of it.
Yeah. IMDb was 7.9 10, as youknow, Metacritic 73 was the critic
1 out of 100 and the users was7.9 out of 10. So across the board
it's pretty.
I think they're kind of harsh.
(06:52):
I think they're harsh.
I think because it's sopopular, maybe people are being dragged
to it who don't really want tosee it and then they go and review
it down.
Yeah, there is that. It's avery specific film genre, isn't it?
Musical theater? Sort of, yeah.
And who goes on IMDb and ratesa film? What's that demographic like?
We don't do that.
I'll tell you now, thousandsupon thousands of people do. Critics
(07:15):
and just general public a lot.
And I always get to that bitwhere it says sign in to review and
I'm like, nah, it's okay.Enough people have reviewed it.
We need one of our listenersto message in and tell us if they've
ever reviewed something orrated something on IMDb. I don't
think these people exist. It's bots.
Please let us know if youhave. And what you said, what was
the film? What did you say?Because some people just like to
go to on things like just hit.But and obviously this is across
(07:39):
the board good. So people aregoing on to just.
Give it good reviews butpositively glowing.
Very well received andobviously still in the cinemas right
now. So let's see what thegrown ups thought. I've picked a
few, obviously I try and picka good and bad. Yeah, yeah, Indifferent.
So Tom Ernst of Original Sin.That's original. Dash C I N I guess
that's original play onoriginal cinema. See what they did
(07:59):
there? He says Wicked can attimes feel like a movie that's one
brick short of a road. Butwhen all is said and sung, it's still
a road paved in gold.
I hate the way he must havecome up with that in the shower and
got so excited and rushed toput it in his article. And it's kind
of lame, Darren being.
Critical of the critics there.
(08:22):
Roger Moore, his Back from the Dead.
Oh my, did he raise an eyebrow.
And Roger Moore of MovieNation. This picture should have
passed by in a sprint, notslogged past like an overlong, over
budgeted, Macy's Parade withmusic that would test the patience
of anyone, including thetoughest PG audience of all kids.
Roger Moore.
He wasn't a fan.
Roger Moore. Not liking it.
(08:42):
No.
I'm always wary of that.Because if you're a critic, can you
let your personal opinionimpact it? Or should it just be like,
was it in focus? Like, was this.
Is that what reviews are? Justa bunch of people's opinions?
I always used to like JonathanRoss because he would go watch a
kids movie and take his kidsand he would say, I thought this,
but my kids loved it. And I'mlike, okay, good, you took the target
(09:04):
audience with you.
It depends if the reviewer isthe target audience.
Yeah, totally.
There's a few kids in therewhen we saw it, and I feel like we're
quiet. They were quiet andglued to the screen the whole time.
That is true. That is true.
Yeah. In our experience, whenwe went, there.
Was a cross section of people.
Yeah, there really was.
Although we were almost theonly guys.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, that's true.Interesting. But across the board,
(09:26):
I don't think that's the case.
We were defying gravity. Seewhat I did there?
Okay. And our good friendPeter Travers.
Oh, go on.
PM this time writing for ABCNews, not Rolling Stone.
Cheating.
He. I looked him up. He writesfor all of the big hitters. ABC News.
He's put. How do I love thefilm of the hit stage musical? Let
me count the ways. Startingwith the way Cynthia Enviro and Ariana
(09:50):
Grande set the screen ablazeas frenemy witches and sets costumes
and songs to die for. Seeingthis joyous eruption once is not
enough. He was a big fan.
Peter's liking it. He'snormally fair.
Okay, yeah, that's fine.
We respect the hell out ofthat guy.
Yeah, Yeah.
I mean, we, we generally knewthat before even we saw it that this
was well received.
Yeah. Yeah.
(10:11):
So it just depends on you asthe viewer whether you're the target
audience or not. It'sinteresting what makes something
click with the masses and what doesn't.
Yeah, I'm fascinated by that.
There's no, there's no formulafor this.
Yeah.
Like something that wasn'tdestined to be a hit can be. And
something that everyone says,oh, it's a no brainer. Doesn't.
That was true of SlumdogMillionaire. Nearly didn't get distributor.
(10:32):
Yeah.
And who would have thoughtthat March of the Penguins, a documentary
about penguins, would havebeen the hit that it was like 10
years ago or whatever. That'syeah, there's a. There's a film writer
called William Goldman whowrote like Rich Cassie and the Sundance
Kid and Stephanie, Princess Bride.
Yeah.
And he always says nobodyknows anything when it comes to Hollywood.
They just have no cluesomething's going to be a hit or
(10:53):
not.
And with this one, it couldhave gone either way, really. Because,
you know, obviously fans ofthe Broadway musical, they're going
to be a big target audience.Fans of musical, sort of films, Greatest
Showman, that kind of thing,probably going to be the audience.
But this, when it hits bigger,like this one seems to have, it's
like, how did it get there?And then how did the kids get in?
(11:14):
You know, three hours withadverts. That's going to put a lot
of people off as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, true. Thatwas your first thing, I think you
said, Mark. Oh, no, it'sreally long.
That is true.
So it's, it's pushed through.It sort of pushed through that next
level of cultural significancealmost, doesn't it? It's been one
of the biggest hits of lastyear, I think.
(11:34):
So it's finished off on this,this section. It's pretty much, if
anyone doesn't know, it's thestory of how the Wicked Witch of
the west became that.
Yes.
At the very beginning. Like,where does that journey start?
It's your prequel of thewizard of Oz, isn't it? But in musical
form. So. So you may have seena film which I quite liked, but it
had more of a pattern thanthis one did, called Oz the Great
(11:55):
and the Powerful. And that waskind of the story of how the wizard
of Oz got to Oz and all thatkind of thing. So it's not that story,
but it's that kind of thingwhere it's sort of setting up how
the which of Evil Witch of thewest became the Evil Witch of the
west. That kind of in musicalform as well. And like you said about
it was.
Based on a book, a 1995 book.
That then went to the stage and.
(12:16):
That was adapted to a musicaland the music, the movies come from
this musical version. So.
And I was, I was readingbefore how the director said, you
know, they were going to tryand do it in one big film, but then
they felt it wouldn't give itjustice. So that's why they ended
up splitting into power.
They saw the franchise money,didn't they? So he didn't say that.
But you never know. Thatproducer stepped in and said, oh,
hang on a second, let's getthis one up.
(12:38):
So in a Nutshell. That iswicked. Now it's time to enter into
Spoiler City. So this, foranyone listening, this is at this
point, if you haven't seen it,there aren't many of you left. But
pause this podcast, go watchthe movie, come back if you don't
want to hear any spoilers. Itdoesn't mean to say we are going
to go out of our way to spoilthis film. It just means you're going
to hear some of our opinions.So we're probably going to give away
(13:00):
some of the plots, some of thethings that happen. So it's just
to beware. So is your choice.
We may even sing some of thesongs. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah.
Okay, let's head into SpoilerCity. Let's start with what did we
miss? What else is this movieabout? Or are there any plot holes,
(13:21):
errors? Was there cameos,Easter eggs? And Paul's gonna give
us a top five.
Give you some of those.
Okay.
Yeah.
Darren, I'll start with you.
Like I was saying, I thinkthere's a political feel to this.
I mean, it always was, evenwith the movie in the show. In terms
of racism. I mean, her beinggreen is a substitute for any kind
of other that you think of.Any other difference? Absolutely.
(13:43):
I think it would have beennice if it hammered that nail a little
bit harder, particularly interms of kind of like creeping fascism
and right wing politics and Idon't know a great deal about politics,
you know, pay a little bit ofattention. But we're in a really
scary situation right nowwhere lots of governments are leaning
towards the right. Lots of.There's this thing, I keep seeing
(14:05):
this recurring theme thatyoung boys are leaning to the right
and young women are leaning tothe left. And this is why. Why they're
not kind of connectinganymore. Then you look at what's
going on with Russia andUkraine, you look at what's going
on in Israel with Gaza, whichis absolutely devastating. And then
you've got this movie whereit's basically very similar. You've
got the other where, like,she's bad, she's different from us,
she's a different color, wedon't understand her, so we will
(14:27):
mock her and, and exclude herand do all these horrible things.
And then you've got obviouslythe wizard of Oz who's going around
rounding up the animals and isalmost kind of dumbing them down
as well. It's taken away theirability to speak.
That's right.
Which is a really scary thingbecause that's kind of happening.
Palestine. Have Just bannedthe news station Al Jazeera from
(14:47):
broadcasting in their countrybecause they were criticizing the
government.
Wow.
And that's. Look at how Trumpwent after the news and fake news.
I'm going to shut you down.Like, they're silencing people's
voices and at the same timethere is this massive issue. It's
not even just Gaza. That'sjust the main one that we talk about.
There's plenty of othercountries where horrible things are
happening and I think thismovie. Some people will get that.
(15:10):
Movies could be talking aboutthat. But I wish they just made it
a little bit more explicit.Like, I wish the animals had. Like,
yeah, they were intermingling,but I wish they had their own land
as well.
Yeah.
And the wizard of Oz wastrying to take over through the resources
or something like that.
Yeah, they kind of. They kindof did some of the obvious stuff.
Like everyone's staring at herbecause she's different.
Yeah.
Initial treatments and stufflike that, but they didn't really
(15:31):
go into it a bit more. Push ita bit more.
Yeah.
Highlight what it feels like.
And it wasn't quite clear yetwhy he wanted to get rid of the animals.
Like why?
Yeah, like. Yeah, they didn'treally explain that, did they? It
was sort of. I put a questionmark on that on my notes. Like the
animals, why. Why was he after it?
So I like. I mean, I feel likeI'm a bit down because it really
(15:53):
does make you think about howthis is not fiction.
Yeah. It's a classic tale ofsomeone being different, being ostracized
or being segregated for. Forthe way they look.
And her acting is superb. Andyou know, I read a few reviews that
were saying if I work. I'm afilm lecturer and I work with performing
arts lecturers who are exactlyas you would imagine them to be and
(16:16):
they are musical, just theaterlovers and they prefer the film to
the show. And I think one ofthe reasons is you get to do a close
up of these actors and you getto see Elphaba. Is that her name?
Yeah, her close ups. She eatsup the screen. She's a phenomenal
actress and she shows. She hasan ability to show the quiet scars
(16:41):
that she has that have builtup over like two decades. And she
deals with it with so muchpoise and so much strength and is
just a phenomenal character.So, yeah, I think that's predominantly
my take and also obviously itwas going to be quite gay because
wizard of Oz is like an iconof the kind of gay community and
it would Be horrendous to takethat away. And I think. And I've
(17:03):
read some stuff online aboutthis as well, but I think the gay
community are very, veryhappy. You've got. You've got some
actors who are openly gay. Ithink the lead is Cynthia, isn't
it?
Cynthia?
Fairly sure she's openly gay.There's. There's a character in the
background. Was it calledFiera or something?
Yeah. Was it Prince? Was it Prince?
But he was going around thatkind of party, just flirting with
(17:25):
everyone in sight, and it wasjust wonderful. And everyone was
there for it. Like, I feellike Oz is quite a bisexual place
to be.
Oh, yeah. Jonathan Bailey'scharacter. Yeah. The main Prince
sort of guy.
And, yeah, that was really,really cool. So, yeah, I think it's
great. I think if people watchit, maybe they won't get the political
thing, but if kids learn thatit's okay to be different, that's
(17:46):
wonderful. And if it's okay tobe gay or bisexual, that's good.
And I think the tensionbetween the two leads was there.
I think, you know, I jokedabout them being friends earlier
because, you know, that couldeasily be a story when they're 70
years old, live together,died, never married, because they
were like, oh, they were justfriends. And that. That was. That
(18:08):
was nicely done. It was alittle bit. It wasn't overt, but
particularly there were timeswhen there was a nice kind of tension
between them where it was justlike this.
It's different in this onebecause we all know where this ends.
Yeah.
So it's like we're trying towork out. Okay. Which is the point
where she goes that way.
Yeah. But I don't know.
Well, that's obviously parttwo or three.
Whatever I think they'redoing, too.
I think when we get there,we'll reveal that. But it's. It's
(18:31):
all the signs along the wayof, like, okay, she's had that obstacle.
Yeah.
She's.
This unfortunate event hashappened to her and the two very
different people who've cometogether and it's what's going to
lead them to go in theopposite direction.
Yeah. But also they might messwith our expectations. You know,
Tarantino.
I would like it if they did. Iwould like it if they did mess with
our expectations.
See, for. For me, a lot of myattention was kind of the musical
(18:55):
side of it and the sets andthe costumes and kind of the production
value of it, which, when I getto my facts in a minute, they did
a lot of it practically,rather than CGI computer graphic
effects, which I thought wasnice. But we're so used to watching
computer graphic effects.Sometimes I think we just assume
(19:16):
everything's computer graphicsnow. And it wasn't until I was reading
it, I was like, oh, okay,maybe I was watching it thinking
it was computer. But actuallya lot of it was practical sets. So
I enjoyed the spectacle sideof it as well, you know, because
obviously that's what theyused to do in the big.
It was quite immersive, wasn't it?
Very immersive world. So Ialways enjoy that element of it,
whether it's sci fi fantasy orwhatever. So, yeah, I think I spent
(19:37):
most of. It's one of them Iwant to see again so I can appreciate
other bits or even more of thesets and the world that they've built
there. And that was one of thethings that made the length of the
film. Because at one point Idid think, oh, this is, you know,
maybe they could have got tothings quicker. But then if they
did that, you'd have lost thesubtleties of the acting, like you
(19:59):
were saying before, which isreally, really good. And you'd have
lost some of that detailprobably of some of the sets and
the things. So that's the partI enjoyed the most, I think, taken
away from me and how theynormally have it on a Broadway stage,
which obviously you gotlimitations. And now they said the
world is yours to do what youwant. And they've built this world
of Oz. So maybe that's why youwere saying they prefer this version
(20:20):
potentially, because it's gotthat big scope.
Another thing, again, I'mseeing this a lot, you know, what's
happening to young men andyoung men are getting a kind of going
to dark places at the moment.And I've read some stuff about it
and it's that on the whole,young white guys have been told that
they're worthless and they'rethe cause of all the issues. And
we hear about the patriarchybeing the issues. You know, I think
(20:41):
I said when we were puttingthis together, does the world really
need to hear from like 34 yearold white, straight cisgender men?
But, you know, here we are, wecan do this. And. But again, and
I'm okay with it, but I thinkat some point I'm hoping we can change
the narrative because, youknow, you've got this amazing world.
It's run by an old white guy.He's evil and he's dominating all
(21:01):
the other species and otherethnicities and everything. And I
just. There was just A momentto release this kind of sadness about
that. Yeah, we're talkingabout race, and obviously the white
guys, the bad guy. And I getthat on the whole, we have done bad
things. Not us three or me,but not you guys. For yourself.
Evil manufacturer.
(21:22):
Well, I mean, anytimeconversations like this happen, I
think if. If it helps anybody,then it's. It's worth doing. But
also, we're just. We're justentertainment show. So it's not like
we don't. We don't have. Wedon't bear this responsibility to,
like, make people think orfeel a certain way. We just. We just
break down movies. But in. Indoing that, we end up having these
diversions where we enter intoserious conversation, which the film
(21:43):
has brought up in the first place.
Although maybe I was just sadthat it was Jeff Goldblum being mean.
It's like, dude, what are you doing?
Jeff finds a way.
But I did like, he's a love.See, Michelle. Yeah. Honestly, since
doing everything everywhereall at once, she's been getting some
great parts. She wasphenomenal in this and really, again,
gutted about the twist withher, but loved her fashion. She would.
(22:07):
I saw on a website, it wascalled Obsessed, that she would be
great on, like, RuPaul's DragRace. I was like, yes, I would love
her to be a judge. That wouldbe amazing.
And I. And of course, Jeff. Ido love Jeff. I was thinking, how
can I. That's what I wasthinking. I was like, how can I praise
Jeff? Because, yeah, I justlove the way he takes a phrase and
makes it very natural and thentakes it in his own Jeff way. And
(22:28):
if I was like, oh, it's justJeff Goldblum being Jeff Goldblum,
it's like, I don't care.That's what I love about Jeff Goldblum.
That is him.
So, yeah, I'm all for, youknow, killing those in charge.
But Jeff Goldblum.
Yeah, that's it.
So that's probably what, like,you say it makes the betrayal even
harder because, you know,we're used to loving Jeff doing his
thing. The other bit you mighthave missed, I was almost going to
(22:51):
put it my top five facts, butlet's just throw it out there because
the musical fans are going toknow this straight off anyway. There's
a scene where they go into thetown in the land of Oz, and there's
a musical scene talking aboutthe history of Oz and everything,
and these two characters popup singing about the history of Oz,
and it's actually the twooriginal actresses From Broadway.
That's cool.
Singing the song. So one ofthem being, hopefully I'll say these
(23:14):
names right, KristinChenworth, who was the original Glinda
and Adina Menzel.
Oh God, she's phenomenal.
Who was the original Elphabaon Broadway. So some of you will
know her as the voice of Elsain the frozen films. The voice of
Let it Go. So do you rememberthe bit I'm talking about where there's
like a stage and then they popup in the song? So they're actually
(23:35):
the original stars ofBroadway. And I was geeky enough
to know that and I was like,oh, oh, that's a good Easter egg
for, you know, the wicked fansof Broadway musical. Because they
were like telling the pastthat I'm like, oh, well that that
makes sense because they werethe past. And they've both got incredible
voices too.
Facts of the Day. I'm going,I'm still calling it Facts of the
Day until someone tells us.
Facts of the Day is good. Thatworks. There's a play on my name.
(23:57):
It's all good.
What do you got?
So there is a lot of facts iswhat I learned. So if you want to
go fact hunting, you will finda lot of facts for this film.
We have a maximum of five, Iwould say.
Yeah, I'm just going to picksome up and throw. Throw some out
here. Go for it. I'd alsorecommend if you get the chance to
listen to the composer,Stephen Swartz. I watched a clip
on. It was Instagram or TikTokor something. Him talking about the
(24:20):
themes and he sat with a pianoand it's amazing how much like stuff.
You would miss that. Subtly inthe background of the themes and
the music, he starts talkingabout how he's got this little thing
where he's used the notes ofSomewhere over the Rainbow but he
changes it slightly in thetheme. And. And also he talks about
(24:41):
the themes of the music thathe uses for the. I'll call the Wicked
Witch. But she's not that yet,is she? So Elphaba, there's themes
he uses to make it what youwere saying where they're mocking
her at the start, but thenthey use them same themes in Defying
Gravity where it changes uptop. Yes.
It was also just why you'vementioned that Defying Gravity was
the way to end that first part.
(25:01):
That was big curtain, closer,finale and.
It just kept going.
Yeah. And he talks about thatin this little clip I watched as
well. He talks about how hewanted to make it feel like it kept
building and building andbuilding. So anyway, anyway, let's
give you some facts. So as wesaid, practical sets were built and
supplemented with cgi ratherthan being filmed on green or blue
screens. The director wantedthe world of Oz to feel like a real
(25:23):
place rather than justcomputer generated. And this included
planting 9 million tulips toserve as part of the landscape for
Munchkin Land. So that's whatI mean. We're used to cgi, so we're
thinking, oh, it's probablyjust. It's like, no, no, they planted
9 million tulips. And one ofhis influences was Hook, Steven Spielberg's
(25:45):
Hook, which used practicaleffects and they built the pirate
ships. And I think there was alot of production hell on that thing.
But he looked at Hook andsaid, yeah, I want to build Oz as
much as I can. They got thatone. Steven Swartz, we were just
talking about the composer andlyricist of the film. He wanted to
modernize Galinda's bignumber, popular by giving it a more
(26:06):
hip hop style rhythm andchanging it to make it a bit cooler.
Ariana grand did, was deadagainst the suggestion and said,
absolutely not. Don't do it. Iwant to be Glinda. I don't want to
be Ariana Grande playingGlinda. So fortunately, in the finished
show, the number is much likeit was on Broadway.
A shame. Exactly. I think thatsong landed.
(26:26):
You think? Do you know? Oh,well, there you go. Blame Ariana
Grande for not wanting to.Ariana Grande. So many facts. So
many facts. I'll give you afew more and then stop me when you
get bored. I'll just edit themout. You won't know that listener.
You'll just edit them out.You'll never know. So the name which
I keep struggling topronounce, the Wicked Witch Elphabar,
(26:47):
was created by taking thephonetic pronunciation of the original
wizard of Oz author L. FrankBaum's initials, lfb, which became
Elphaba, which I wish I'd readbefore because it might have helped
me pronounce it through therest of this podcast. The vocals
for the ensemble parts werepre recorded by a number of Broadway
(27:09):
performers, including some ofthe Illuminate from the Wicked on
Broadway, as opposed to beingsung live on set like the lead vocals
were, which is one of my otherfacts, which is she actually sings
Defying Gravity live on theset. I think. I think a lot of them
did it live on the set. A bitlike Les Mis, where the idea pieces,
that kind of thing in.
Okay, one more impressive One more.
(27:31):
Okay, let's have a look. Thisis the first non Disney musical to
gross over $100 milliondomestically in its open weekend.
Impressive. So it's time fortakeaways, which is where we give
our opinions on the film. Ourthoughts. I'll start with Paul, because
it's your choice.
Okay. I enjoyed it. I was,like I said earlier, wrapped up in
(27:54):
the world. Thought theperformances were amazing, thought
the actual production designwas amazing. Jeff Goldblum's in it.
I love that. Even though. Boo.Damn you, Jeff. The only thing I
would say though is I probablyneed to see it again to appreciate
it more. There's othermusicals maybe that I saw first time
that enjoyed more. I feellike, like I'm cheating all the critics
(28:16):
and all the public who lovethis film by saying that, but if
that makes sense. So the firsttime I maybe came out of. I use Greatest
Showman as an example. I cameout of that like, oh, that hit me
right in the spot. This onewas a bit more. It hit me a bit later
when I was thinking about itmore. So I feel like when I watch
it again, I'm going toappreciate it more because I wasn't
familiar with the songs asmuch because I think with the Greatest
(28:38):
Shaman, I had the album onbefore I even went to see the film.
That kind of thing. Or there'sother musicals that I've just watched
since I was a kid that justingrained in your brain. Whereas
this one obviously was brandnew to me. I've never seen the Broadway.
I've only heard the songDefying Gravity. So all the other
ones were new. So it took me awhile to kind of get into that new
world and everything. But Ifeel like when I watch it again,
I can appreciate it more,especially knowing how much practical
(29:00):
set stuff went into it becauseI like that kind of behind the scenes
filmmaking. So for me,excellent film, really enjoyed it.
But I think next time I watchit, I'll get more out of it than
I did on the first few. Andbecause the first time I was a bit
like just taking it all in.
There was a lot to take and.
There was a lot to take in.So. Yeah, but yeah, if you're a fan
of musical theatre, if you'rea fan of obviously this kind of genre,
(29:23):
go and see it. If you're notand you hate people jumping into
songs every so often, maybeit's not for you. But then again,
if you like a Disney filmpotentially where they do a song
now and again, I think youmight still be okay. But I'm guessing
you guys will back me up onthat or disagree.
The thing with Jeff Goldblum,I think that made me the saddest
part. He isn't that, you know,he was a white guy. It was the impact
(29:45):
on those monkeys because youcould tell really early on that they
were like beaten down. Andwhen he's saying, oh, so and so has
always had this dream offlying and you look at his face.
No, he hasn't. Then later on,it's like, you want to see your family
again, find her. Like thesemonkeys are slaves. Like, oh, yeah,
that's a good angle. Actually,the fact that they're hurting animals,
(30:07):
you know, because that's likeyou, you immediately hate the person
who's doing it.
Yeah. Your thoughts and down.
Overall, there's lots of goodthings about it. I mean, there's
talent involved. Clearly, it'sphenomenal. And I love all the messages
that we've talked about. Andyou know, I love the fact you've
got a woman of color as thelead who is phenomenal. And not just
as a phenomenal singer, butlike I was saying earlier, with her
(30:28):
strength, her poise, herresilience, just amazing to see that,
you know, she's.
A Broadway actress and she'slike, she's come from. I'm sure.
I think I've heard that that'swhere she comes from because I was
surprised at how. Because justbecause you can do Broadway doesn't
mean you work on screen.
No. This is what I'm thinking.So that for her must be a big breakthrough.
The chemistry, those two was electric.
Absolutely. So I love thefact, and particularly she's a gay
(30:51):
actress as well, that'sphenomenal. So basically, if you're
any kind of like, other thanyou've got a hero here and you know,
we're incredibly, incrediblyprivileged because we grew up with
so many heroes.
Oh yeah.
Indiana Jones, James Bond,most of the Marvel cast, you know,
loved it when Black Pantherfinally got made. But yes, you know,
it's great when people can seethemselves on screen. It's important.
(31:13):
So I love that. Love themessaging. I thought Aviana, I couldn't
work out if she was actingbrilliantly or awfully. And what
I mean by that is Glinda waslike this empty headed, vacuous nothing.
And I, I don't think, I thinkwhen ever Elphaba was on screen,
(31:34):
I forgot Ariana Grande wasthere. She would just kind of disappear.
She would dominate, wouldn't she?
Yeah, Elphaba would.
Yeah.
Even when she even when shewas doing nothing, my eyes were always
on her.
So either she was an intense character.
Yeah.
I feel like maybe that was thepoint, though. I'm gonna go in Ariana's
defense and say that they werepretty much opposites, aren't they
opposite? So she's meant to bethat, like, vacuum, but like you
(31:56):
say, there's nothing there.
No, exactly.
Whereas Elphaba had everything.
Yeah.
She's got the depth yetbecause that character's surface.
I want to be popular. I wantpretty pink things. And yes, that
was. I was kind of curiousabout that also.
Because of that, she hasnothing to deal with in life, whereas
Elphaba's got to fight for everything.
This is also anotherinteresting thing that I think about
life is that you only grow asa character through pain.
(32:17):
Yeah.
And if Glinda has had no painand failure and. Exactly.
There's a lot more to belearned from that than everything
being given to our plate.
Devastating lesson of lifethink is that you have to experience
pain to grow. And it's.
I feel like she learns fromAlphabet as the story goes on.
Yes.
I warmed to her as the filmwas going along because she was obviously
the warming to her and I sortof felt that, yeah, I think it was
(32:38):
a good job.
And also there's lots. I mean,it's a. It's a movie with lots of
two dimensional characters,you know, just kind of in the background.
And you know, they say, oh,that his personality trait is he's
flirty. Okay. But that's finebecause Alphabet kind of carries
it. But it also made merealize that I can never really understand
when people say, oh, I don'tlike Marvel movies or Star wars or
(33:00):
Lord of the Rings. I said, youjust need to sit with me and I will
give you a PowerPointpresentation about why it's amazing.
And I think 10 minutes in Iwas like, this is what people mean
when they say they don't likeStar wars or Marvel. Because I couldn't
stand this movie. I was boredfrom minute one. And I did well up
at one point because how canyou not? I mean, there's some emotional
scenes. You know, Defyinggravity was powerful, but I was just
(33:24):
bored. And I'm. I'm fullyaware that I'm in no way, shape or
form the target audience forthis. I would. There's plenty of
people I would recommend itto, people who, who love the show
or the messages that it gives.The messages they get, they love
it. But I definitely wasn'tthe target audience. Didn't really
Enjoy it at all. I probably.I'm not. I don't think I would even
(33:47):
watch the second part.
Okay. Well, I thought I wasgonna shit on this film.
Came from nowhere there. He'dpraise so much. I was like, he must
have really enjoyed this.
I'm of a similar vein, but Idid. There was part of it I enjoyed.
I'm not a musical fan, so forme, the longer it went on and it
was a long film, every time.Every time they used a song to carry
(34:09):
the story, that's when it wentdownhill for me.
Yeah.
If I could listen to a versionof that without some of the music,
especially towards the end.Yeah, it was. There was too much
of it. But some of the sceneswere really intense and I was quite
enjoying the story of it. But,yeah, the musical side of it just,
I. For me, you bursting intosong and dance to as part of the
story just doesn't work forme. I'm the same as you. I'm not
(34:32):
the target audience for this,but. But, yeah, I thought, like,
this one, the CGI and the factit was real, real sets and stuff,
I really enjoyed that. Andthere was some powerful scenes in
there, like, quite emotional,like you said, Darren. But, yeah,
I'm not the target audience.There was. Towards the end, I was
bored.
And I do like, you know, Ilike the Greatest Showman. My daughter
gets me playing the soundtrackto that in the car all the time.
(34:52):
It's solid. Loved Hamiltonthought that was superb, but I didn't
like things like I. Was itinto the Woods.
Yeah, into the Woods Istruggled with. Yeah, I struggled
with that one. I enjoyed bitsof it, but, yeah, that was another
similar. If into the woods isyour bag, this is on your wavelength.
(35:13):
And if I did give it. If I didgive it one criticism, which I maybe
held back on before, it wasthe length of the film. And, you
know, I'm fine with longerfilms, but this just felt like there
was a short movie in therethat was a bit snappier somewhere.
And if they were going to doit in two halves, you know, two short
halves would have maybe been abit punchier. There were that moment.
(35:35):
The bits that dragged areprobably different from me to you
because obviously I quite likethe musical bits of it, but I get
what you're saying. So for me,maybe some of the talkie bits was
like, oh, come on, when's the next?
I think we all thought it wastoo long, but for different reasons.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Andagain, if I had to pick, if you put
Oz the Great and The Powerful,with James Franco and Michelle Williams
(35:56):
and Zach Braff. And I'm tryingto remember who else was in that
film. What's she called? FromFamily Guy? Me. I always say her
name wrong. Mila. Yeah, yeah,yeah. I'd probably. If I had the
two films to watch right now,I'd probably pick that one, because
I did enjoy that one. Butagain, if you look at the critical
reviews, you'd be like, no,no, that film's terrible, but this
one's better. So it's whatyou're into. And as a kind of prequel,
(36:20):
wizard of Oz. Probably pickthat one again. I can imagine the
people screaming at me now athome, saying, what? But I enjoyed
them both.
Okay, that's what we thought.So to finish off this section, let's
do Test of Time. I think wehad a thought of. It was totally
flipping on its head.
Hold up. The Test of Time.
If this was released 20 yearsago. Because obviously, if something
(36:41):
was.
Yeah, we do the flip.
If we were talking aboutsomething that was released 20 years
ago, we would talk about whatwould happen if it's released now.
But if something's out now. Ifthis was released in 20 years ago,
what would happen?
I said 20 years ago. I thoughtyou meant the 80s.
No, no, no, no, no. It's theyear 2025. Don't. Oh, dear.
2004.
So you're talking like 2000. Yeah.
Okay. I'm trying to remember.So make sure it's come out in 99.
(37:05):
We're kind of looking. Idon't. I think it. I don't think
it would have done the moneythat it's doing now. I think we weren't
quite ready with diversity.And, I mean, 20. Had Black Panther
come out then.
No, no.
If you're pre Black Panther.Yeah, you're it. It's. I don't think
we've actually come alongreally, really far in the last 20
(37:27):
years. And looking at thegeneration, you know, that I teach,
the teenagers, they're so muchmore open with. With their own identities.
There's so much moreacceptance about everything. I think
it would have struggled, and Ithink it would have been critiqued
a lot more. Like people aresaying it's too woke now.
I feel it would have strugglednot because of them reasons, because
(37:48):
different reasons. I don'tthink there was many musicals knocking
around in 2004. Maybe Chicago.
Oh, yeah.
So the only way I can see itwould have done well is kind of if
it had gone on the Chicagowave, because I think that did pretty
well. Didn't it?
Maybe the Broadway musicalversion would have done okay, but
not the movie.
Movie, yeah, back then,potentially. So the only way I can
see it doing as well as itdone now, but probably nowhere near
(38:10):
the figures it's getting, isit? Sort of. Because I think Chicago
was like 2003, 2004. Let meknow if I'm wrong, kids. But yeah,
I think it might have got abit of the wave of Chicago. But if
that had come out beforeChicago, I think, yeah, maybe it's
too much.
We've got good stuffhappening. Like, I like the fact
that Little Mermaids played bya black actress as well. Like, most
(38:32):
recently, we're makinginteresting changes. I like the fact
there's discussion aroundJames Bond potentially being black
as well.
Oh, I have no problem withthat whatsoever.
No, quite right. And there'ssome really cool actors who could
do that role. And then whoelse would have Doctor who? So, yeah,
we've got some cool stuff kindof happening.
Okay, so we're exiting Spoilercity. That ends that section. So
(38:52):
this was your movie choice?
Was.
So it's. You're worth a watch, Paul.
Foreign Worth a watch. Okay.This kind of ties in with the monkeys
thing, which I didn't realizeuntil you started talking about monkeys.
So I'm currently watching a TVshow at the moment. It's based off
(39:14):
the Bruce Willis, Brad Pitt,Madeleine Stove film, the Terry Gillingham
film 12 Monkeys, which cameout in what, 90 something? Yeah,
somewhere in the 90s. So ifyou've seen that film, this is the
TV show adaptation of thatfilm. However, you don't really need
to have seen the film to watchthis TV show. I don't think it's
(39:35):
a widely known TV show, buteverything I've read, everyone was
it. So this came outabout2015, something like that. So
it's fairly recent, but wherecan people watch it? So I'm watching
it on Blu ray.
Of course you are. Of course I am.
Because I missed the physicalmedia. I haven't actually looked
where else you can watch it,but I think it is on a few things
(39:56):
or it's at least. Okay, he'slooking for you. I'll talk about
it while he's.
Haven't seen on any of themain ones.
Well, I'd heard about it, so Ilooked it up and there it was on
Blu Ray.
So gonna be HBO or Paramountor something.
I feel it's gonna be onsomething like that. It was on the
Sci Fi Channel. I think it wasmade by the Sci Fi Channel.
Oh, it's on ITVX free of charge.
There you go.
(40:16):
People in the uk. Itvx.
Well you need TV license.
You do?
I think so, yeah.
Obviously it's availableAmazon prime. You can buy it for
189. YouTube 199.
Really? For the whole season?
Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
You don't get four seasons.
Don't get that four seasons.
You don't get that Blu rayquality. Just saying.
Does it need four seasons? Howfar are you in?
(40:37):
Okay, so I'm in season two. Soseason one had me hooked in season
two. Like I probably shouldhave seen the whole series before.
I recommend it but fromeverything everyone's saying it seems
to keep building and actuallyit's quite satisfying ending and
that's the people doing it.
Dark and gripping.
It's very dark. It's verygripping. It's very confusing. There's
time travel all over theplace. There's timelines everywhere.
(40:58):
There's paradoxes kicking off.If you're into sci fi, paradox, time
travel stuff. I'm reallyenjoying this series. It's not trying
to be the movie. The firstepisode you see themes of the film.
There's characters. BradPitt's character is actually played
by a woman. Talking about someof you saying and actually it's a
really good fit as to thatcharacter. But yeah, I'm almost at
(41:21):
the end of season. No, I'vejust started season three. I tell
I was in a binge watch moodthe other day after Christmas. I
was battling through them. Isay battling through I couldn't wait
to watch the next thingbecause there's so many things going
on right then.
So we put out, we put out somecallers last couple of episodes asking
for our listeners to choosesome movie breakdowns. Considering
all choice and consideringthis was done before we'd even launched
(41:43):
we got quite a few recommendations.
So thank you.
We've gone through it, we'vegone back and forth usually I think
in the future if we getwhatever it gets the most, if we
get the same movie mentioned afew times we'll just go with that.
But this time we got a widecross section from various people
so we've chosen RosieHodgson's choice is Shawshank Redemption.
(42:04):
That's what we're going to gofor. Absolute classic. So that like
as we've discussed before it'salways in the top three of on all
of the critics websites it'salways up there. Some sits number
one, sometimes it's number three.
Big thank you Rosie. It meansI get to watch it again.
Yeah, we've all seen it. Weall know I haven't watched it in
a long time, but I reallyenjoyed it.
It's a weird movie because, Idon't know, it's almost like Shinda's
list, like what kind of moodyou have to be in to be like, oh,
(42:26):
you know what, I'm going topop that movie on tonight. Yeah,
it's not a date movie.
Depends on your date. Yeah, itdoes, but okay, so that's what we're
going to. Next time it will beShawshank Redemption chosen by our
listener, Rosie Hodgson.Right. So thanks for listening guys.
At some point we need to getbranded mugs so that Rosie would
(42:46):
get like a mug with her nameon it.
Yeah, yeah, we can do that. Wecould do that at some point. Download.
I mean we've only justliterally right of the gate, we're
doing merchandise. Wow.Thinking way ahead. Merchandise.
I like it. Okay, so thanks forlistening guys. If you have any thoughts
on today's episode, on themovie, did you go and see it? What
did you think? Do you anaysayer or did it. Was it what you
(43:09):
wanted it to be? Let us knowwhat you thought. Also, if you've
got any ideas of what filmsyou'd like us to break down, please
do send them in. We will get across section of those. If any movies
jump out us, we will probablytake that into consideration and
give it a go. And we will alsogive you a shout out on the show
as well if you've got anyquestions or if you're any movie
related stories, anythingfunny, inspirational or embarrassing
(43:31):
happened while the cinema.While you're watching the movies.
We'd love to. If we get somegood ones, we will definitely read
those out on the show. All ourcontact details are in the show notes.
Please get in touch, let usknow what you think. We'd like to
hear from you guys and also ifyou want to help us, we're just brand
new. Best thing you can do isjust share the show. Share this episode.
Hit the share button onwhatever app you're listening to.
Give us a like a rating, areview. All these things help us,
(43:52):
especially for a new show, getnoticed. Okay, so this is me, Mark
saying.
Goodbye and me Darren sayingadios and.
Me trying to think of a quotefrom Wicked. Something has changed
within me.
There we go.
There you go.
Thanks, Paul. Bye.
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