May 12, 2025 • 31 mins
The #1 Mistake Companies Make—Planning Products Over People
It’s a painful truth: most organizations spend more time planning their next product launch than they do preparing their next generation of leaders. And the cost? Burnout. High turnover. Stalled growth. Talented team members walking out the door because they feel unseen, unsupported, and underdeveloped.
In this powerful episode, Eric Pfeiffer is joined by our Director of Content, Dawn Neldon to uncover the silent crisis happening inside boardrooms and breakrooms alike. Together, they reveal the biggest mistake companies make—prioritizing deliverables over development—and how this oversight quietly erodes culture, morale, and momentum.
Drawing from years of hands-on experience and transformative results, Dawn introduces the Leadership Pipeline framework, a proven system designed to create a steady flow of equipped, empowered leaders at every level of your organization.
You’ll discover the four critical stages of the pipeline—Recruit, Train, Deploy, and Review—and why skipping even one can sabotage your team’s potential. More than a framework, it’s a culture-shaping strategy that elevates performance, boosts retention, and future-proofs your business by developing leaders who lead with clarity, ownership, and impact.
Whether you're a CEO scaling your vision, a team lead building bench strength, or a founder tired of carrying the load alone, this episode will challenge your assumptions and provide actionable insights to start developing leaders who multiply—not just manage—your mission.
If you're ready to stop reacting and start leading with intention, this episode is your blueprint.
🎧 Listen now and learn how to build a leadership engine that fuels sustainable growth from the inside out.
👉 Don’t forget to follow, subscribe, and leave a review if this episode challenged your thinking or sparked new ideas.
Are you ready to unlock your full potential and lead with purpose, clarity, and conviction?
The MPWR Podcast, hosted by Eric Pfeiffer, CEO of MPWR Coaching, is your go-to space for transformational conversations, powerful insights, and practical strategies to help you step into the next level of your leadership journey. Whether you're scaling your business, seeking greater alignment in life, or stepping into your calling—this podcast will challenge, inspire, and empower you.
Want more tools to accelerate your growth? Head over to mpwrcoaching.com where you'll find free resources, game-changing books, and programs designed to elevate your mindset, build resilience, and transform the way you lead—from the inside out.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
All right, we are recording.
Right on.
All right.
One of the biggest
leadership challenges isn't
getting things done.
That's what most people think.
Yep.
It's helping other people do things well.
And too often,
we as leaders get stuck in a
(00:21):
frustrating cycle.
We either hold on too tight
or we let go too fast.
Why?
Because most of us as
leaders don't have a clear
framework for what the
learning process actually looks like.
And that's where the
development square comes in.
It's a simple but powerful
tool that helps you
understand how people move from,
(00:42):
I have no idea what I'm
doing to I've got this.
And you,
how you as a leader need to show
up differently in each stage.
We're breaking this tool
into two episodes.
In this first episode,
we're going to unveil the
four stages every person
goes through when they're
developing in any new area.
How we move from novice to expert,
(01:04):
immature to mature,
from infant to adulthood.
In the next episode,
we'll unpack those four
styles of leadership that
we can practice to partner
others on their developmental journey.
So in this episode,
all about how we develop no
matter who we are in any
new area and the next episode,
how can we partner with
others to effectively give
(01:25):
them the best chance of
growing into a better
version of themselves?
I'm Eric Pfeiffer.
And in this episode,
I'm joined by Don Neldon.
If you've ever felt stuck
between micromanaging and
letting people flounder,
this episode is going to
give you a better way.
That's right.
And
I love to look at this
(01:46):
initially with babies in mind,
because it can be really
difficult to look at
ourselves and understand
how we are growing and developing,
how we learn new things.
But we can see it very
clearly when we look at babies.
And the best example is when
a kid is learning how to
walk for the first time.
(02:08):
get up, they stumble, they bumble,
but they keep trying.
And those initial steps are
wiggly and wobbly,
but eventually they take
really more and more
confidence in their steps.
And before you know it,
they're off and running.
And for whatever reason,
it's really clear for us when we are,
(02:28):
for example,
helping our kids learn how to
walk or helping our kids
learn how to tie their shoes.
And we forget that in our own lives-
we still have to go through
a process of learning how
to do new things.
I think that this is like,
with the advent of the internet,
we just think we should
know how to do everything, right?
(02:49):
Like we should be able to
watch a YouTube and rebuild
an engine in a car, you know?
I feel like I see this more
and more lately where people just
want to bypass the learning
stage and go directly to
expert status in anything.
And I get it.
Being in that learning phase
is uncomfortable and it
(03:12):
feels really exposed.
But we will never get to the
point of I've got this.
I'm an expert at this thing,
unless we realize that we
actually have to go through
the whole process, the wiggles,
the wobbles, the stumbles, the bumbles.
And that's all part of the process.
Let me just jump in and say this.
(03:35):
This tool that we're going
to be unpacking really came
to life for me years ago.
My now-twenty-year-old son,
back then he was about, I don't know,
ten years old.
And he had just gotten this
new video game he was
really excited about,
and he wanted me to play with him.
And so as we jumped into playing the game,
he was so super excited and super pumped.
He's unpacking the game and
(03:55):
he's putting it in and
we're firing it up and we
jump into level one and
there we are going after things.
And I don't even remember
what the nature of the game was,
but he was super excited
and I was excited with him.
But very quickly,
as we were trying to
together pass this first level,
we kept failing,
failing and failing and
failing and failing and failing.
Thank God for video games
that you just have almost
(04:16):
unlimited lives or you push reset.
But his frustration grew to the point of,
At one point,
he throws his game controller
on the floor.
He's crying.
I hate this game.
This is so stupid.
And I remember feeling shocked.
Like, whoa,
this is a really strong response.
But the reason I was intrigued is I'm like,
you know what?
His response in this moment
(04:37):
So good.
Feeling defeated and
overwhelmed and like you
just can't figure it out
reminded me of how I have
felt so many times whenever
I'm trying to learn anything new,
whether it's typing with my
fingers on the home keys of
a computer keyboard or
whether it was I remember
learning how to really
understand finances from
our family and then from
the business perspective.
(04:58):
There's so many areas where I was like,
I know this feeling,
what he's going through right now.
What's interesting is as I
encouraged him and helped
him get back into the video game,
we took a break, got back into it.
Over time,
we started to learn how the
video game works.
We started to learn some of
the tricks to the trade,
and eventually we found
that we passed level one.
(05:19):
We're super excited and we celebrate,
but guess what?
Then there's level two.
That's right.
I'm pretty convinced we
never reached the end of this game.
It had an infinite number of levels,
but that so much reminds me
of what we experience in life.
Any area that we in life have conquered,
have mastered,
have become experts in
required this developmental
(05:40):
learning process.
And it's the same for us as
human beings from our
biological perspective as
we go from infant to adulthood.
It's the same
as we're trying to master
any new skill or ability,
is we have to go through
these stages of growth,
which requires that we go
through this season of
difficulty where we want to give up.
And we're going to talk more about this,
(06:01):
but I think it's really
important because as leaders,
I think oftentimes the misnomer is, well,
I've achieved this title or
this position.
I should just know how to do everything.
And I want our listeners to hear this.
With all of the leaders I
have ever worked with,
no matter how high of a level they are,
whether they're C-suite, owner, operator,
(06:22):
CEO,
I don't care if it's a multi-billion
dollar organization or a small startup,
the reality is every one of
these leaders at some point
in the coaching process confides in me,
Eric.
I hate having to admit that
I don't know how to do something.
It scares me.
And when I ask them why,
they say the same thing every time.
Because I'm afraid if other
(06:43):
people see that I don't
know what I'm doing,
then they're going to lose
confidence in me.
That maybe that will
disqualify me for my role
or my responsibility.
And I have to encourage them
the same way every time.
And I want to encourage our
listeners to understand
that if as a leader or in
any area of your life, you're struggling,
you feel like you're underwater,
you feel like you're not
getting something,
you're not learning something,
you're not where you want to be.
(07:05):
that actually you're
probably right where you should be.
Because learning is hard.
And until we can embrace
that and also accept the
fact that as leaders,
we have to be ready to
model that we're willing to
be on our own learning journey,
so that other people have
permission to be on their
learning journey.
And that actually creates
(07:25):
greater trust and
confidence in a leader when
others can say, hey,
they're willing to say, I don't know.
They're willing to say,
I haven't quite figured this out yet.
They're willing to say,
I'm still figuring this out.
As a matter of fact,
I would say it's almost
counterintuitive to who we
are as humans because we
hate to suck at stuff.
Yes, we do.
(07:46):
And therefore, we avoid it like the plague,
which only robs us of these
incredible growth opportunities.
Absolutely.
And we have seen time and
time again that the I
should know how to do this by now fear is
is kryptonite to leaders it
that is the sentiment that
is going to keep you stuck
(08:07):
it is going to keep you
afraid and it's going to
keep you from growing and
developing into the person
that you are trying to
become so that's why this
tool is so powerful because
it is going to demystify
this process for our
listeners um eric would you
jump in and just kind of
break down the tool for us
(08:27):
absolutely well first of all
a couple things um I want
to say this at the
beginning that you know we
owe the principles of this
tool to ken blanchard and
his work on situational
leadership and so we just
borrowed some of the
principles we've innovated
a little bit like we do
with most of our our
leadership tools to make
them more simple accessible
and user friendly for our clients now
(08:52):
the tool is simply in the
shape of a square.
And a square, as we all know,
has four sides,
which helps us understand
right at the start that
there are four stages that
we have to pass through.
There's no, you know,
skip go and collect two hundred bucks.
There's no circumventing any
of these four phases.
These are four requisite
stages that we all have to
(09:13):
go through when we are trying to grow,
develop, learn any new skill, ability,
And there's so many other
benefits that come along with it.
So as we think of a square,
the first stage of any
developmental process is we
are captivated by a vision.
And there's two kinds of
vision that we can be captivated by.
The first is a vision that
(09:33):
springs up from within us.
I remember watching my older
brother ride a bike for the first time.
And I remember thinking,
I can't wait to learn how to ride a bike.
I remember seeing him drive a car,
got his license, thinking,
I want to learn how to drive a car.
So sometimes a vision starts within us.
We catch a picture of a
future that we want for ourselves.
And that motivates us or
(09:54):
inspires us to want to jump
into this adventure.
the other way a vision can
come to us is sometimes
from our parents when they
say you're going to learn
how to clean your room
you're going to learn how
to set the table you're
going to learn how to take
out the trash right or a
teacher says you're going
to learn some kind of
arithmetic or a boss says
you're going to have to
learn this computer program
any way you look at it
vision can start from
(10:14):
within us or come from
without outside of us but
the vision is what gets us
willing to leave kind of
the land of familiarity and comfort
the way things have always been,
and to embark on an
adventure of learning something new.
And so this first stage,
I like to call the honeymoon stage,
which technically we refer to it as D one,
(10:34):
right?
The development phase one, right?
Because we want to make
everything really simple and practical.
So in this first phase,
we need to understand it is
marked by the experience
for us as the learner by
unconscious incompetence.
In other words,
we don't know what we don't know.
We're green.
(10:54):
We don't know what we're
getting ourselves into,
but we're excited either
because we're inspired to
learn something or because
we're inspired enough by an
authority figure to say,
I better learn this or else.
And this first phase is
marked by excitement.
And there's a real sense of confidence.
I can do this.
What we'll learn later is
it's really a naive confidence.
(11:15):
right?
That I can figure this out.
Not a problem.
I'm smart enough.
I'm good enough.
I'm strong enough.
I'm fast enough, whatever.
I'll figure it out.
But eventually that first phase,
because it can't last forever,
runs into what we call the
second phase or D two or
development phase number two.
This is the phase where we
start to really try our
hand at this new skill or
(11:37):
ability or task.
And we quickly find out
I don't know what I don't know.
So the unconscious
incompetence turns into
conscious incompetence.
We run into our deficiencies,
our inadequacies, our inexperience.
The fact that maybe we've
never done this thing before,
(11:57):
and it doesn't matter what it is,
it could be a skill in the workplace,
a new hobby,
a new area you're wanting to
develop in your marriage,
whether it's communication or conflict,
maybe it's budgeting your finances,
whatever the case is, we all know
this experience of feeling
like we're falling into a pit.
Or I like to refer to D-II as underwater.
(12:19):
Phase one is honeymoon.
Phase two is underwater.
Oh my gosh,
this is so much harder than I thought.
I'm not sure I'm ever gonna get this.
And in this phase,
all human beings experience
kind of four core temptations.
The first one is the obvious one.
This is stupid.
I'm not sure why I'm having to learn this.
I wanna quit.
(12:40):
The second one is, you know what,
this is dumb.
I can't believe this isn't working.
And so we start to blame
everyone and everything
around us for why we can't
figure this out.
The third phase is all about
resigning or what we call silent quitting.
This isn't working.
I've tried it so many times and trust me,
anybody who's been married
(13:01):
longer than like a year
knows what silent quitting feels like.
I just don't know how to do this.
I don't know how to resolve an argument.
And so, you know what,
I'm not going to do this anymore.
I'm just going to be quiet
and I'm going to avoid, right?
So,
and then there's a fourth one off the
top of my head.
I can't remember.
Do you remember what it was?
We normally have four and I
just remembered three.
(13:21):
I was so in it with you.
Okay, we did.
I know.
I was in it too.
We'll get back to it.
But what is it?
So there's quitting.
Quitting.
Oh, thank you.
So there's quitting, blaming.
There's silent quitting or resignation,
as we like to say it.
And then there's also, you know what?
This relationship isn't working.
This job isn't working.
This hobby isn't working.
(13:42):
So I'll trade it in for a new shiny one.
We call it looking for
greener grass or looking
for a new vision.
All four of these are
temptations that will derail a very,
very critical part of our
learning journey because
whenever we're gonna learn something new,
we're gonna have to contend
with the fact that we don't
(14:03):
know how to do it yet,
which means we're not good at it,
which can be very discouraging,
feel very lonely.
It starts to take a toll on
our ego and our fragile
egos and our pride.
Here's what I tell people,
this second phase
if we'll persevere through it,
is actually the phase where
we develop greater character,
(14:24):
where we develop stick-to-itiveness,
perseverance, patience, self-belief,
a renewed sense of
confidence that we can learn new things.
And so I tell people,
don't mistake D-II for
necessarily this is something bad.
Of course,
there are always situations in
which we decide, you know what,
this actually isn't a good fit,
this isn't working.
But far too often,
(14:45):
we give way to those
temptations and jump ship
long before we've had the
opportunity to really grow and develop.
And so we not only grow in
our character in DII, but we actually,
during that process,
start to develop new skills.
Now, mind you, we're not experts.
We're barely keeping maybe
(15:05):
our head above water.
But transformation is taking place.
And I often have to tell people,
when you're in a DII phase,
You desperately,
desperately need people
around you who can
encourage you to stay in it.
Because even though it's hard,
it's a good hard.
And all of us have
experiences through our
(15:26):
life where we can look back and say, yeah,
I persevered through the
difficulty of that learning
journey and it paid off.
If we're able to persevere through D-II,
we move into the third
developmental phase, D-III,
which I call the I'm getting it phase,
right?
We're now starting to figure it out,
the new skill, the new ability.
(15:46):
We've developed a little bit
more character.
So we're staying in the fight.
And this is the place where
we're starting to
experience conscious competence, right?
Now,
here's an interesting thing about D-III.
Because very often we get in D three,
we think, okay,
the learning journey is over.
It's not over.
It's a really important part
of the process because it's
in D three that we begin to
(16:06):
develop a sense of initiative,
personal responsibility.
We start saying, hey, you know what?
I can do this.
I can own this, which is really,
really important.
We have a growing sense of confidence.
But in D three, if we're not careful,
if we don't continue to
practice what we've been learning,
then oftentimes what I find
is people start to stall out.
(16:27):
And so we need to continue
through this third phase
until we eventually reach D
four or development phase four,
which is marked by
unconscious competence.
Now we have developed this
skill to the point where we
feel like we can do it like
the back of our hand.
I tell people great examples.
Most of us,
when we get in the car and drive to work,
we're not thinking about
how to turn the car on.
We're not thinking about how to drive.
(16:48):
We're not even thinking
about how to get to work unless you're,
by traffic area.
We just know how to do it.
And this is where our
learning has moved from the
front of our brain into the
back of our brain,
into the long-term memory.
And the beautiful thing
about anything we learn to
the fourth phase of
development becomes
something that we can tap into
(17:08):
at any point in our life or
into the future,
not only for our benefits,
but now we have something
to share with others.
And so I constantly remind
leaders the importance of
being on our own
developmental journey is so
that we constantly have new wisdom,
experience,
and insights to share with
(17:30):
others around us.
Yeah, that's so good.
there are in fact really
important things that we
need to learn and take away
from each phase that to the
point where if we try to skip one phase,
we're never going to reach
that unconscious competence
(17:51):
where we are just,
what we also call like that
flow state where you are
operating at your best,
you can do it in a minimal
amount of time.
One thing I wanna bring to
our listeners attention here though,
is that when we're learning
the development square,
we can sometimes think that
(18:14):
this is how a person develops as a whole,
right?
So I am on a developmental
journey and one time I am
going to go through the four stages,
but the reality is
For us and for anybody else in our lives,
each new thing that we are
learning is a new square.
So we like to talk about big
squares and little squares even.
(18:36):
If you think of, like, for example,
I always think this really
clearly is illustrated
about when I was trying to learn Spanish.
And I had to go through the
initial square just on the
concept of learning Spanish.
But each time I had to learn
(18:56):
a new verb tense or a new
colloquial dialect,
like you're going through
another process of the square.
And so as you are looking at
even this concept of
learning about how to learn how to teach
things you are going to go
(19:17):
through the development
square um and we can fall
into the trap of thinking
well I did that once I
learned how to do something
why you know I'm good to go
each new thing is going to
be a square and some
squares are big squares are
going to take us months or
years like learning spanish
some squares are small and
(19:38):
are going to take us a day a week
You know.
Yeah.
Well,
what you're what you're illustrating
for us is what I like to
call the difference between
the macro versus the micro
journeys or macro versus
micro squares in that.
Let me give an example.
Right.
Because obviously one of
things we always want to do
is is provide some examples
of what does this actually
(19:59):
look like in real time?
And in this episode,
I want to talk about my own journey.
So I had been a part for
over a decade of helping
another person build a coaching company.
And I had my own, you know,
developmental process, you know,
as I was learning how to
coach and the toolkit that
we were utilizing at that
(20:20):
time and how to train other coaches.
And so I had my own kind of
macro squares in terms of, you know,
macro squares,
like how do I coach other
leaders effectively?
But then there were all the micro squares.
I had to learn each tool and
the application of each
tool and the nuance of when
I'm in a coaching call, how to engage,
how to ask good questions.
These were all micro squares.
Well, in the same way,
when I started Empower Coaching,
(20:42):
I had never started a company before.
And so it was my first kind
of real for a into entrepreneurial work.
And so just the,
just let's start from the beginning,
like where we're at today
in the building of this coaching company,
I'd say we're probably, you know,
in some areas we're like in
the D two or we're feeling
overwhelmed and frustrated.
(21:02):
And as we're creating
content and our content platform and,
trying to release new resources.
And who do we hire to do the video work?
And how do we make sure that
marketing is working right?
There's a lot of areas where
we're in D two.
There's a lot of areas where
we're in D three,
where we feel like we've
got a handle on it.
We know our platform,
we know our coaching framework,
we know how to coach well.
(21:23):
And so in some ways from a
macro perspective, our companies,
you know, somehow in D sometimes in D two,
sometimes D three macro,
but micro from micro squares,
I had to learn like,
how do you start a business?
How do you file the paperwork?
You know, how do you finance this?
How do you forecast and
budget for the future?
(21:45):
How do you, you know,
what do you do about taxes
at the end of the year?
What can you and can you not
spend your company money on?
Like there's so many small
areas that I've had to grow
and develop in as a leader,
whether it's building a
team or how to hire and fire people or,
you know,
How to how to find new clients,
how to create your client pipeline.
(22:05):
You know,
how do we record videos on social media?
You know,
nobody just wakes up one day and
knows how to do anything.
And so even in my journey as
a as an entrepreneur leader
starting a coaching company, you know,
I can say that there's this macro square.
that our company's always
evolving and growing on
from a large picture perspective.
(22:27):
But then there are always
gonna be these smaller
areas that as we step into
new areas of growth development,
as we're trying to take new territory,
as we're trying to develop new products,
as we're trying to build our team out,
it's constantly learning new things,
which quite frankly,
can become really fatiguing
yes which is why for myself
(22:49):
and for our listeners we've
got to learn to celebrate
the squares that we've
already been around where
we've reached d three and d
four because that's
oftentimes what fuels us to
be willing to embark in new
learning adventures yeah
that that is so good it the the process
(23:12):
on some levels is constant and,
to that degree can feel very fatiguing.
But on the other hand,
it can be really liberating
to know that there's never
a moment that you arrive and you're like,
I have learned, I have got it.
I've learned everything I need to learn.
I've learned everything I need to learn,
which in some ways frees us
(23:33):
up to be learners,
to not be experts in certain areas.
And to ask for help or to
just recognize where we are
on our own journey
macro and micro.
I think that's so, so helpful.
Yeah.
I would, I would say that, you know,
if this tool,
there's so much more than we
(23:54):
can unpack in this, in this one episode,
but if this tool can
encourage our listeners to,
by giving us permission,
because so often we don't
know how to give ourselves permission.
So one of the things this
tool does is it gives us
permission to do two things.
One that you've already mentioned,
I'll come back to it.
(24:14):
But the first one I want to
say is it gives us permission to stumble,
fumble,
bumble our way into growth because
it's necessary.
Like we need to give
ourselves permission to be in the pit,
to feel like we're underwater,
to feel like we're really struggling,
to feel like we need help.
That's okay because it's a
necessary part of the
journey and too often we
(24:34):
mistake the difficulties that it's bad.
Right.
I mean,
when I'm in the gym and I'm on the
treadmill and I've walked, you know,
however many miles on the
treadmill that day and my
body's fatiguing, I feel tired.
Often I'm like, this is bad.
This hurts.
This is uncomfortable.
This is disorientating.
But a good trainer will step up and say,
hey, listen,
this is a good bad or a good hard.
(24:55):
I'm sorry.
A good hard.
Because sometimes we have to
remember that hard actually
means we're growing.
Discomfort,
disorientation actually means
we're probably in a process
of moving toward growth and
reorientation.
But we don't grow without
going through that second phase.
And this tool gives us
permission to go through it
(25:16):
rather than to think, well, it's hard.
It's bad.
I need to get out of it as
quickly as possible.
The second thing this tool
gives us permission
to do is I think to regain
perspective on the value
and importance that we as
leaders have to model,
have to embody this
willingness to be on a
(25:37):
continual developmental journey.
I never forget getting to a certain age,
my early twenties and realizing,
you know what?
My parents don't know everything.
They haven't figured it all out.
They're not perfect.
They have a lot of areas
they need to grow into.
But as a little child,
you think your parents know everything.
You think they were just
kind of born that way.
They have the playbook on
everything parenting.
(25:57):
And then you realize, no, actually,
they're still growing.
They're still developing.
And that was radically
liberating for me because
once I was able to give my
parents permission to
continue growing and developing,
that in some way reminded me,
I need to give myself permission.
to continue growing.
They've grown in a lot of areas,
but there's always going to
be new ways that they have to develop,
(26:19):
whether it's parenting
teenagers versus parenting adults,
or the way my parents have
interacted with our spouses
and their grandkids, right?
Like they're constantly
learning and growing.
And I think as leaders,
when we fight to embody
this core value that we're
constantly learning,
I think it just gives
permission to everybody around us.
So, so good.
(26:40):
Yeah,
I have very similar experiences where
I first learned that, oh,
just because you're older
doesn't mean you know how
to do everything.
Oh, at once, liberating and frustrating.
Yeah, a hundred percent,
a hundred percent.
All right.
Well, as we close out this episode,
a couple of things I want
to make sure that our
listeners are subscribed
(27:02):
because the next- Hold on, Dawn.
We need to give them some
simple practical action
steps that they can take to
apply immediately.
You're so right.
I am so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
You are right.
You were so excited about
getting more subscribers.
We forgot we need to give
them some practical goodies.
You are right.
All right.
So just a couple of
practical things for our listeners.
(27:23):
If you want to immediately
put this into use is the
first thing we can do is
simply reflect on where in
our life currently we
Do we find ourselves in a D-I phase,
in that honeymoon phase?
Something's new, exciting.
Maybe it's a new relationship.
Maybe it's a new job.
Maybe it's a new stage of
your child's growth and development.
And maybe it's a new hobby.
(27:44):
Maybe whatever it is,
a new economic season of
life where you're flourishing, right?
So we love being in that D-I
phase because it's inspiring.
It's moving.
It's new vision.
which is awesome.
But we also have to
recognize where in our life
are we currently in a D two
phase where we feel, man,
we're underwater.
We feel like we're, we're,
we might be drowning.
We're overwhelmed.
(28:04):
We want to give up.
We want to quit.
We feel like we're blaming
everybody around us.
Maybe, maybe that's in your job role.
Maybe you're struggling with
your relationship with your
boss or some coworkers,
or maybe you feel like
you've just entered into a
sales position.
You're not, you're just not,
not making many sales or
whether that's maybe you,
you've started a company
and you're freaking out feeling like,
I don't even have a clue what I'm doing.
(28:25):
We need to identify where do
we resonate with that D two
experience in our life currently.
Also the third phase,
like where are we in D three?
Where do we feel like, you know what?
I've come through the storm.
I've come through the most
difficult part of this learning journey.
I feel like I'm starting to
wrap my head around this.
I'm not a expert.
I still have to think a lot
about what I'm doing,
but I feel like I'm in D three.
And then where am I in D four?
(28:46):
And as we identify where in
our life currently,
we're experiencing
potentially each of these
four developmental phases.
That's the beginning of
self-awareness and
self-awareness is so
important because if we
don't know where we are,
then we can't do this second part of this,
uh, this practical application,
which is this to give
(29:08):
yourself permission to be in that phase,
right?
Too often we're in D two
wishing we were in D four.
Or we're in D two wishing we
can go back to D one,
go back to a time when I
felt excited and motivated by this.
But it's so important that
we learn to give ourselves
permission to be where we
are in our developmental journey,
(29:29):
because that's the only place we can be.
And by giving ourselves
permission to be there,
it's going to unlock a
little bit more energy,
a little bit more mental
margin to engage in that phase, right?
Because when things are
difficult or we're not sure where we are,
we feel disorientated.
Oftentimes what happens is
(29:50):
we start to avoid that
process of growth or we want to, you know,
just abandon ship altogether.
So knowing where we are and
giving ourselves permission
to be where we are is the
beginning of really
embracing and optimizing
our growth journey.
So, so good.
(30:12):
And allowing us to really
mine the gems that each
phase has to offer us.
So with that,
because we always want to
leave you with practical applications,
our tools are,
if they don't feel like
they move the needle for you,
then we're not doing our
job because our tools at
their core are practical
(30:33):
handles that you can use
for transformation.
And we always want to leave
you with some of that.
But that being said,
We want to encourage you to
subscribe because our next
episode is where we are
going to teach you how to
layer on the leadership
style to the development
square that will basically
(30:55):
unlock for you how you can
lead your people well in
every phase of their own
developmental journey.
So this next episode is...
going to be transformational
and you don't want to miss it.
So make sure you subscribe.
And also I'd be willing to
bet that you heard some
things in this episode that
made you think of another
leader in your life or
(31:16):
somebody who's going through.
something similar,
somebody who's starting a business,
somebody who's growing a team,
somebody who's trying to
level up their leadership.
And we'd love if you'd send this to them.
There's no better message
that you can send than, hey,
I'm cheering you on in your
leadership journey.
And I think this episode
would really spark you
(31:36):
where you're at right now.
So we'd love if you'd share this.
And then lastly,
head to our show notes
because every episode we
drop in an image of our
tools because they are at
their core visual tools.
So you can see them and get
a better grasp on them.
And also while you're there,
we have a free gift for you.
(31:57):
It's our mini course of five
shifts to become the leader
that you wish you had.
So we would love... Pause.
Pause.
Josh, you can edit that little bumble out.
Or not edit it out because
people need to know this is
what it really looks like.
Either way, Josh, up to you.
(32:18):
At any rate,
we are so excited to keep
growing together and we
look forward to the next
episode where we get to dig
into some leadership strategies with you.
All right, Andrew.
All right, we are recording.
Right on.
All right.
One of the biggest
leadership challenges isn't
getting things done.
That's what most people think.
Yep.
It's helping other people do things well.
And too often,
we as leaders get stuck in a
(00:21):
frustrating cycle.
We either hold on too tight
or we let go too fast.
Why?
Because most of us as
leaders don't have a clear
framework for what the
learning process actually looks like.
And that's where the
development square comes in.
It's a simple but powerful
tool that helps you
understand how people move from,
(00:42):
I have no idea what I'm
doing to I've got this.
And you,
how you as a leader need to show
up differently in each stage.
We're breaking this tool
into two episodes.
In this first episode,
we're going to unveil the
four stages every person
goes through when they're
developing in any new area.
How we move from novice to expert,
(01:04):
immature to mature,
from infant to adulthood.
In the next episode,
we'll unpack those four
styles of leadership that
we can practice to partner
others on their developmental journey.
So in this episode,
all about how we develop no
matter who we are in any
new area and the next episode,
how can we partner with
others to effectively give
(01:25):
them the best chance of
growing into a better
version of themselves?
I'm Eric Pfeiffer.
And in this episode,
I'm joined by Don Neldon.
If you've ever felt stuck
between micromanaging and
letting people flounder,
this episode is going to
give you a better way.
That's right.
And
I love to look at this
(01:46):
initially with babies in mind,
because it can be really
difficult to look at
ourselves and understand
how we are growing and developing,
how we learn new things.
But we can see it very
clearly when we look at babies.
And the best example is when
a kid is learning how to
walk for the first time.
(02:08):
get up, they stumble, they bumble,
but they keep trying.
And those initial steps are
wiggly and wobbly,
but eventually they take
really more and more
confidence in their steps.
And before you know it,
they're off and running.
And for whatever reason,
it's really clear for us when we are,
(02:28):
for example,
helping our kids learn how to
walk or helping our kids
learn how to tie their shoes.
And we forget that in our own lives-
we still have to go through
a process of learning how
to do new things.
I think that this is like,
with the advent of the internet,
we just think we should
know how to do everything, right?
(02:49):
Like we should be able to
watch a YouTube and rebuild
an engine in a car, you know?
I feel like I see this more
and more lately where people just
want to bypass the learning
stage and go directly to
expert status in anything.
And I get it.
Being in that learning phase
is uncomfortable and it
(03:12):
feels really exposed.
But we will never get to the
point of I've got this.
I'm an expert at this thing,
unless we realize that we
actually have to go through
the whole process, the wiggles,
the wobbles, the stumbles, the bumbles.
And that's all part of the process.
Let me just jump in and say this.
(03:35):
This tool that we're going
to be unpacking really came
to life for me years ago.
My now-twenty-year-old son,
back then he was about, I don't know,
ten years old.
And he had just gotten this
new video game he was
really excited about,
and he wanted me to play with him.
And so as we jumped into playing the game,
he was so super excited and super pumped.
He's unpacking the game and
(03:55):
he's putting it in and
we're firing it up and we
jump into level one and
there we are going after things.
And I don't even remember
what the nature of the game was,
but he was super excited
and I was excited with him.
But very quickly,
as we were trying to
together pass this first level,
we kept failing,
failing and failing and
failing and failing and failing.
Thank God for video games
that you just have almost
(04:16):
unlimited lives or you push reset.
But his frustration grew to the point of,
At one point,
he throws his game controller
on the floor.
He's crying.
I hate this game.
This is so stupid.
And I remember feeling shocked.
Like, whoa,
this is a really strong response.
But the reason I was intrigued is I'm like,
you know what?
His response in this moment
(04:37):
So good.
Feeling defeated and
overwhelmed and like you
just can't figure it out
reminded me of how I have
felt so many times whenever
I'm trying to learn anything new,
whether it's typing with my
fingers on the home keys of
a computer keyboard or
whether it was I remember
learning how to really
understand finances from
our family and then from
the business perspective.
(04:58):
There's so many areas where I was like,
I know this feeling,
what he's going through right now.
What's interesting is as I
encouraged him and helped
him get back into the video game,
we took a break, got back into it.
Over time,
we started to learn how the
video game works.
We started to learn some of
the tricks to the trade,
and eventually we found
that we passed level one.
(05:19):
We're super excited and we celebrate,
but guess what?
Then there's level two.
That's right.
I'm pretty convinced we
never reached the end of this game.
It had an infinite number of levels,
but that so much reminds me
of what we experience in life.
Any area that we in life have conquered,
have mastered,
have become experts in
required this developmental
(05:40):
learning process.
And it's the same for us as
human beings from our
biological perspective as
we go from infant to adulthood.
It's the same
as we're trying to master
any new skill or ability,
is we have to go through
these stages of growth,
which requires that we go
through this season of
difficulty where we want to give up.
And we're going to talk more about this,
(06:01):
but I think it's really
important because as leaders,
I think oftentimes the misnomer is, well,
I've achieved this title or
this position.
I should just know how to do everything.
And I want our listeners to hear this.
With all of the leaders I
have ever worked with,
no matter how high of a level they are,
whether they're C-suite, owner, operator,
(06:22):
CEO,
I don't care if it's a multi-billion
dollar organization or a small startup,
the reality is every one of
these leaders at some point
in the coaching process confides in me,
Eric.
I hate having to admit that
I don't know how to do something.
It scares me.
And when I ask them why,
they say the same thing every time.
Because I'm afraid if other
(06:43):
people see that I don't
know what I'm doing,
then they're going to lose
confidence in me.
That maybe that will
disqualify me for my role
or my responsibility.
And I have to encourage them
the same way every time.
And I want to encourage our
listeners to understand
that if as a leader or in
any area of your life, you're struggling,
you feel like you're underwater,
you feel like you're not
getting something,
you're not learning something,
you're not where you want to be.
(07:05):
that actually you're
probably right where you should be.
Because learning is hard.
And until we can embrace
that and also accept the
fact that as leaders,
we have to be ready to
model that we're willing to
be on our own learning journey,
so that other people have
permission to be on their
learning journey.
And that actually creates
(07:25):
greater trust and
confidence in a leader when
others can say, hey,
they're willing to say, I don't know.
They're willing to say,
I haven't quite figured this out yet.
They're willing to say,
I'm still figuring this out.
As a matter of fact,
I would say it's almost
counterintuitive to who we
are as humans because we
hate to suck at stuff.
Yes, we do.
(07:46):
And therefore, we avoid it like the plague,
which only robs us of these
incredible growth opportunities.
Absolutely.
And we have seen time and
time again that the I
should know how to do this by now fear is
is kryptonite to leaders it
that is the sentiment that
is going to keep you stuck
(08:07):
it is going to keep you
afraid and it's going to
keep you from growing and
developing into the person
that you are trying to
become so that's why this
tool is so powerful because
it is going to demystify
this process for our
listeners um eric would you
jump in and just kind of
break down the tool for us
(08:27):
absolutely well first of all
a couple things um I want
to say this at the
beginning that you know we
owe the principles of this
tool to ken blanchard and
his work on situational
leadership and so we just
borrowed some of the
principles we've innovated
a little bit like we do
with most of our our
leadership tools to make
them more simple accessible
and user friendly for our clients now
(08:52):
the tool is simply in the
shape of a square.
And a square, as we all know,
has four sides,
which helps us understand
right at the start that
there are four stages that
we have to pass through.
There's no, you know,
skip go and collect two hundred bucks.
There's no circumventing any
of these four phases.
These are four requisite
stages that we all have to
(09:13):
go through when we are trying to grow,
develop, learn any new skill, ability,
And there's so many other
benefits that come along with it.
So as we think of a square,
the first stage of any
developmental process is we
are captivated by a vision.
And there's two kinds of
vision that we can be captivated by.
The first is a vision that
(09:33):
springs up from within us.
I remember watching my older
brother ride a bike for the first time.
And I remember thinking,
I can't wait to learn how to ride a bike.
I remember seeing him drive a car,
got his license, thinking,
I want to learn how to drive a car.
So sometimes a vision starts within us.
We catch a picture of a
future that we want for ourselves.
And that motivates us or
(09:54):
inspires us to want to jump
into this adventure.
the other way a vision can
come to us is sometimes
from our parents when they
say you're going to learn
how to clean your room
you're going to learn how
to set the table you're
going to learn how to take
out the trash right or a
teacher says you're going
to learn some kind of
arithmetic or a boss says
you're going to have to
learn this computer program
any way you look at it
vision can start from
(10:14):
within us or come from
without outside of us but
the vision is what gets us
willing to leave kind of
the land of familiarity and comfort
the way things have always been,
and to embark on an
adventure of learning something new.
And so this first stage,
I like to call the honeymoon stage,
which technically we refer to it as D one,
(10:34):
right?
The development phase one, right?
Because we want to make
everything really simple and practical.
So in this first phase,
we need to understand it is
marked by the experience
for us as the learner by
unconscious incompetence.
In other words,
we don't know what we don't know.
We're green.
(10:54):
We don't know what we're
getting ourselves into,
but we're excited either
because we're inspired to
learn something or because
we're inspired enough by an
authority figure to say,
I better learn this or else.
And this first phase is
marked by excitement.
And there's a real sense of confidence.
I can do this.
What we'll learn later is
it's really a naive confidence.
(11:15):
right?
That I can figure this out.
Not a problem.
I'm smart enough.
I'm good enough.
I'm strong enough.
I'm fast enough, whatever.
I'll figure it out.
But eventually that first phase,
because it can't last forever,
runs into what we call the
second phase or D two or
development phase number two.
This is the phase where we
start to really try our
hand at this new skill or
(11:37):
ability or task.
And we quickly find out
I don't know what I don't know.
So the unconscious
incompetence turns into
conscious incompetence.
We run into our deficiencies,
our inadequacies, our inexperience.
The fact that maybe we've
never done this thing before,
(11:57):
and it doesn't matter what it is,
it could be a skill in the workplace,
a new hobby,
a new area you're wanting to
develop in your marriage,
whether it's communication or conflict,
maybe it's budgeting your finances,
whatever the case is, we all know
this experience of feeling
like we're falling into a pit.
Or I like to refer to D-II as underwater.
(12:19):
Phase one is honeymoon.
Phase two is underwater.
Oh my gosh,
this is so much harder than I thought.
I'm not sure I'm ever gonna get this.
And in this phase,
all human beings experience
kind of four core temptations.
The first one is the obvious one.
This is stupid.
I'm not sure why I'm having to learn this.
I wanna quit.
(12:40):
The second one is, you know what,
this is dumb.
I can't believe this isn't working.
And so we start to blame
everyone and everything
around us for why we can't
figure this out.
The third phase is all about
resigning or what we call silent quitting.
This isn't working.
I've tried it so many times and trust me,
anybody who's been married
(13:01):
longer than like a year
knows what silent quitting feels like.
I just don't know how to do this.
I don't know how to resolve an argument.
And so, you know what,
I'm not going to do this anymore.
I'm just going to be quiet
and I'm going to avoid, right?
So,
and then there's a fourth one off the
top of my head.
I can't remember.
Do you remember what it was?
We normally have four and I
just remembered three.
(13:21):
I was so in it with you.
Okay, we did.
I know.
I was in it too.
We'll get back to it.
But what is it?
So there's quitting.
Quitting.
Oh, thank you.
So there's quitting, blaming.
There's silent quitting or resignation,
as we like to say it.
And then there's also, you know what?
This relationship isn't working.
This job isn't working.
This hobby isn't working.
(13:42):
So I'll trade it in for a new shiny one.
We call it looking for
greener grass or looking
for a new vision.
All four of these are
temptations that will derail a very,
very critical part of our
learning journey because
whenever we're gonna learn something new,
we're gonna have to contend
with the fact that we don't
(14:03):
know how to do it yet,
which means we're not good at it,
which can be very discouraging,
feel very lonely.
It starts to take a toll on
our ego and our fragile
egos and our pride.
Here's what I tell people,
this second phase
if we'll persevere through it,
is actually the phase where
we develop greater character,
(14:24):
where we develop stick-to-itiveness,
perseverance, patience, self-belief,
a renewed sense of
confidence that we can learn new things.
And so I tell people,
don't mistake D-II for
necessarily this is something bad.
Of course,
there are always situations in
which we decide, you know what,
this actually isn't a good fit,
this isn't working.
But far too often,
(14:45):
we give way to those
temptations and jump ship
long before we've had the
opportunity to really grow and develop.
And so we not only grow in
our character in DII, but we actually,
during that process,
start to develop new skills.
Now, mind you, we're not experts.
We're barely keeping maybe
(15:05):
our head above water.
But transformation is taking place.
And I often have to tell people,
when you're in a DII phase,
You desperately,
desperately need people
around you who can
encourage you to stay in it.
Because even though it's hard,
it's a good hard.
And all of us have
experiences through our
(15:26):
life where we can look back and say, yeah,
I persevered through the
difficulty of that learning
journey and it paid off.
If we're able to persevere through D-II,
we move into the third
developmental phase, D-III,
which I call the I'm getting it phase,
right?
We're now starting to figure it out,
the new skill, the new ability.
(15:46):
We've developed a little bit
more character.
So we're staying in the fight.
And this is the place where
we're starting to
experience conscious competence, right?
Now,
here's an interesting thing about D-III.
Because very often we get in D three,
we think, okay,
the learning journey is over.
It's not over.
It's a really important part
of the process because it's
in D three that we begin to
(16:06):
develop a sense of initiative,
personal responsibility.
We start saying, hey, you know what?
I can do this.
I can own this, which is really,
really important.
We have a growing sense of confidence.
But in D three, if we're not careful,
if we don't continue to
practice what we've been learning,
then oftentimes what I find
is people start to stall out.
(16:27):
And so we need to continue
through this third phase
until we eventually reach D
four or development phase four,
which is marked by
unconscious competence.
Now we have developed this
skill to the point where we
feel like we can do it like
the back of our hand.
I tell people great examples.
Most of us,
when we get in the car and drive to work,
we're not thinking about
how to turn the car on.
We're not thinking about how to drive.
(16:48):
We're not even thinking
about how to get to work unless you're,
by traffic area.
We just know how to do it.
And this is where our
learning has moved from the
front of our brain into the
back of our brain,
into the long-term memory.
And the beautiful thing
about anything we learn to
the fourth phase of
development becomes
something that we can tap into
(17:08):
at any point in our life or
into the future,
not only for our benefits,
but now we have something
to share with others.
And so I constantly remind
leaders the importance of
being on our own
developmental journey is so
that we constantly have new wisdom,
experience,
and insights to share with
(17:30):
others around us.
Yeah, that's so good.
there are in fact really
important things that we
need to learn and take away
from each phase that to the
point where if we try to skip one phase,
we're never going to reach
that unconscious competence
(17:51):
where we are just,
what we also call like that
flow state where you are
operating at your best,
you can do it in a minimal
amount of time.
One thing I wanna bring to
our listeners attention here though,
is that when we're learning
the development square,
we can sometimes think that
(18:14):
this is how a person develops as a whole,
right?
So I am on a developmental
journey and one time I am
going to go through the four stages,
but the reality is
For us and for anybody else in our lives,
each new thing that we are
learning is a new square.
So we like to talk about big
squares and little squares even.
(18:36):
If you think of, like, for example,
I always think this really
clearly is illustrated
about when I was trying to learn Spanish.
And I had to go through the
initial square just on the
concept of learning Spanish.
But each time I had to learn
(18:56):
a new verb tense or a new
colloquial dialect,
like you're going through
another process of the square.
And so as you are looking at
even this concept of
learning about how to learn how to teach
things you are going to go
(19:17):
through the development
square um and we can fall
into the trap of thinking
well I did that once I
learned how to do something
why you know I'm good to go
each new thing is going to
be a square and some
squares are big squares are
going to take us months or
years like learning spanish
some squares are small and
(19:38):
are going to take us a day a week
You know.
Yeah.
Well,
what you're what you're illustrating
for us is what I like to
call the difference between
the macro versus the micro
journeys or macro versus
micro squares in that.
Let me give an example.
Right.
Because obviously one of
things we always want to do
is is provide some examples
of what does this actually
(19:59):
look like in real time?
And in this episode,
I want to talk about my own journey.
So I had been a part for
over a decade of helping
another person build a coaching company.
And I had my own, you know,
developmental process, you know,
as I was learning how to
coach and the toolkit that
we were utilizing at that
(20:20):
time and how to train other coaches.
And so I had my own kind of
macro squares in terms of, you know,
macro squares,
like how do I coach other
leaders effectively?
But then there were all the micro squares.
I had to learn each tool and
the application of each
tool and the nuance of when
I'm in a coaching call, how to engage,
how to ask good questions.
These were all micro squares.
Well, in the same way,
when I started Empower Coaching,
(20:42):
I had never started a company before.
And so it was my first kind
of real for a into entrepreneurial work.
And so just the,
just let's start from the beginning,
like where we're at today
in the building of this coaching company,
I'd say we're probably, you know,
in some areas we're like in
the D two or we're feeling
overwhelmed and frustrated.
(21:02):
And as we're creating
content and our content platform and,
trying to release new resources.
And who do we hire to do the video work?
And how do we make sure that
marketing is working right?
There's a lot of areas where
we're in D two.
There's a lot of areas where
we're in D three,
where we feel like we've
got a handle on it.
We know our platform,
we know our coaching framework,
we know how to coach well.
(21:23):
And so in some ways from a
macro perspective, our companies,
you know, somehow in D sometimes in D two,
sometimes D three macro,
but micro from micro squares,
I had to learn like,
how do you start a business?
How do you file the paperwork?
You know, how do you finance this?
How do you forecast and
budget for the future?
(21:45):
How do you, you know,
what do you do about taxes
at the end of the year?
What can you and can you not
spend your company money on?
Like there's so many small
areas that I've had to grow
and develop in as a leader,
whether it's building a
team or how to hire and fire people or,
you know,
How to how to find new clients,
how to create your client pipeline.
(22:05):
You know,
how do we record videos on social media?
You know,
nobody just wakes up one day and
knows how to do anything.
And so even in my journey as
a as an entrepreneur leader
starting a coaching company, you know,
I can say that there's this macro square.
that our company's always
evolving and growing on
from a large picture perspective.
(22:27):
But then there are always
gonna be these smaller
areas that as we step into
new areas of growth development,
as we're trying to take new territory,
as we're trying to develop new products,
as we're trying to build our team out,
it's constantly learning new things,
which quite frankly,
can become really fatiguing
yes which is why for myself
(22:49):
and for our listeners we've
got to learn to celebrate
the squares that we've
already been around where
we've reached d three and d
four because that's
oftentimes what fuels us to
be willing to embark in new
learning adventures yeah
that that is so good it the the process
(23:12):
on some levels is constant and,
to that degree can feel very fatiguing.
But on the other hand,
it can be really liberating
to know that there's never
a moment that you arrive and you're like,
I have learned, I have got it.
I've learned everything I need to learn.
I've learned everything I need to learn,
which in some ways frees us
(23:33):
up to be learners,
to not be experts in certain areas.
And to ask for help or to
just recognize where we are
on our own journey
macro and micro.
I think that's so, so helpful.
Yeah.
I would, I would say that, you know,
if this tool,
there's so much more than we
(23:54):
can unpack in this, in this one episode,
but if this tool can
encourage our listeners to,
by giving us permission,
because so often we don't
know how to give ourselves permission.
So one of the things this
tool does is it gives us
permission to do two things.
One that you've already mentioned,
I'll come back to it.
(24:14):
But the first one I want to
say is it gives us permission to stumble,
fumble,
bumble our way into growth because
it's necessary.
Like we need to give
ourselves permission to be in the pit,
to feel like we're underwater,
to feel like we're really struggling,
to feel like we need help.
That's okay because it's a
necessary part of the
journey and too often we
(24:34):
mistake the difficulties that it's bad.
Right.
I mean,
when I'm in the gym and I'm on the
treadmill and I've walked, you know,
however many miles on the
treadmill that day and my
body's fatiguing, I feel tired.
Often I'm like, this is bad.
This hurts.
This is uncomfortable.
This is disorientating.
But a good trainer will step up and say,
hey, listen,
this is a good bad or a good hard.
(24:55):
I'm sorry.
A good hard.
Because sometimes we have to
remember that hard actually
means we're growing.
Discomfort,
disorientation actually means
we're probably in a process
of moving toward growth and
reorientation.
But we don't grow without
going through that second phase.
And this tool gives us
permission to go through it
(25:16):
rather than to think, well, it's hard.
It's bad.
I need to get out of it as
quickly as possible.
The second thing this tool
gives us permission
to do is I think to regain
perspective on the value
and importance that we as
leaders have to model,
have to embody this
willingness to be on a
(25:37):
continual developmental journey.
I never forget getting to a certain age,
my early twenties and realizing,
you know what?
My parents don't know everything.
They haven't figured it all out.
They're not perfect.
They have a lot of areas
they need to grow into.
But as a little child,
you think your parents know everything.
You think they were just
kind of born that way.
They have the playbook on
everything parenting.
(25:57):
And then you realize, no, actually,
they're still growing.
They're still developing.
And that was radically
liberating for me because
once I was able to give my
parents permission to
continue growing and developing,
that in some way reminded me,
I need to give myself permission.
to continue growing.
They've grown in a lot of areas,
but there's always going to
be new ways that they have to develop,
(26:19):
whether it's parenting
teenagers versus parenting adults,
or the way my parents have
interacted with our spouses
and their grandkids, right?
Like they're constantly
learning and growing.
And I think as leaders,
when we fight to embody
this core value that we're
constantly learning,
I think it just gives
permission to everybody around us.
So, so good.
(26:40):
Yeah,
I have very similar experiences where
I first learned that, oh,
just because you're older
doesn't mean you know how
to do everything.
Oh, at once, liberating and frustrating.
Yeah, a hundred percent,
a hundred percent.
All right.
Well, as we close out this episode,
a couple of things I want
to make sure that our
listeners are subscribed
(27:02):
because the next- Hold on, Dawn.
We need to give them some
simple practical action
steps that they can take to
apply immediately.
You're so right.
I am so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
You are right.
You were so excited about
getting more subscribers.
We forgot we need to give
them some practical goodies.
You are right.
All right.
So just a couple of
practical things for our listeners.
(27:23):
If you want to immediately
put this into use is the
first thing we can do is
simply reflect on where in
our life currently we
Do we find ourselves in a D-I phase,
in that honeymoon phase?
Something's new, exciting.
Maybe it's a new relationship.
Maybe it's a new job.
Maybe it's a new stage of
your child's growth and development.
And maybe it's a new hobby.
(27:44):
Maybe whatever it is,
a new economic season of
life where you're flourishing, right?
So we love being in that D-I
phase because it's inspiring.
It's moving.
It's new vision.
which is awesome.
But we also have to
recognize where in our life
are we currently in a D two
phase where we feel, man,
we're underwater.
We feel like we're, we're,
we might be drowning.
We're overwhelmed.
(28:04):
We want to give up.
We want to quit.
We feel like we're blaming
everybody around us.
Maybe, maybe that's in your job role.
Maybe you're struggling with
your relationship with your
boss or some coworkers,
or maybe you feel like
you've just entered into a
sales position.
You're not, you're just not,
not making many sales or
whether that's maybe you,
you've started a company
and you're freaking out feeling like,
I don't even have a clue what I'm doing.
(28:25):
We need to identify where do
we resonate with that D two
experience in our life currently.
Also the third phase,
like where are we in D three?
Where do we feel like, you know what?
I've come through the storm.
I've come through the most
difficult part of this learning journey.
I feel like I'm starting to
wrap my head around this.
I'm not a expert.
I still have to think a lot
about what I'm doing,
but I feel like I'm in D three.
And then where am I in D four?
(28:46):
And as we identify where in
our life currently,
we're experiencing
potentially each of these
four developmental phases.
That's the beginning of
self-awareness and
self-awareness is so
important because if we
don't know where we are,
then we can't do this second part of this,
uh, this practical application,
which is this to give
(29:08):
yourself permission to be in that phase,
right?
Too often we're in D two
wishing we were in D four.
Or we're in D two wishing we
can go back to D one,
go back to a time when I
felt excited and motivated by this.
But it's so important that
we learn to give ourselves
permission to be where we
are in our developmental journey,
(29:29):
because that's the only place we can be.
And by giving ourselves
permission to be there,
it's going to unlock a
little bit more energy,
a little bit more mental
margin to engage in that phase, right?
Because when things are
difficult or we're not sure where we are,
we feel disorientated.
Oftentimes what happens is
(29:50):
we start to avoid that
process of growth or we want to, you know,
just abandon ship altogether.
So knowing where we are and
giving ourselves permission
to be where we are is the
beginning of really
embracing and optimizing
our growth journey.
So, so good.
(30:12):
And allowing us to really
mine the gems that each
phase has to offer us.
So with that,
because we always want to
leave you with practical applications,
our tools are,
if they don't feel like
they move the needle for you,
then we're not doing our
job because our tools at
their core are practical
(30:33):
handles that you can use
for transformation.
And we always want to leave
you with some of that.
But that being said,
We want to encourage you to
subscribe because our next
episode is where we are
going to teach you how to
layer on the leadership
style to the development
square that will basically
(30:55):
unlock for you how you can
lead your people well in
every phase of their own
developmental journey.
So this next episode is...
going to be transformational
and you don't want to miss it.
So make sure you subscribe.
And also I'd be willing to
bet that you heard some
things in this episode that
made you think of another
leader in your life or
(31:16):
somebody who's going through.
something similar,
somebody who's starting a business,
somebody who's growing a team,
somebody who's trying to
level up their leadership.
And we'd love if you'd send this to them.
There's no better message
that you can send than, hey,
I'm cheering you on in your
leadership journey.
And I think this episode
would really spark you
(31:36):
where you're at right now.
So we'd love if you'd share this.
And then lastly,
head to our show notes
because every episode we
drop in an image of our
tools because they are at
their core visual tools.
So you can see them and get
a better grasp on them.
And also while you're there,
we have a free gift for you.
(31:57):
It's our mini course of five
shifts to become the leader
that you wish you had.
So we would love... Pause.
Pause.
Josh, you can edit that little bumble out.
Or not edit it out because
people need to know this is
what it really looks like.
Either way, Josh, up to you.
(32:18):
At any rate,
we are so excited to keep
growing together and we
look forward to the next
episode where we get to dig
into some leadership strategies with you.
All right, Andrew.
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