April 1, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode, Tom Caravela and Patrina Pellett offer a full RECAP of the 2025 Medical Affairs Professional Society Meeting. The key themes from the meeting are examined, such as impact and insights in Medical Affairs, Med Tech and Story Telling in Patient Centricity. Networking advice and conference planning tips are shared, alongside discussions on conference apps and predictions for next year's themes. The episode concludes with insights frameworks, newsletter sign-ups, and final words of appreciation
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Hey, guys.
Welcome to the podcast.
I have a very, very special guest this week,Petrina Pellet.
Please say hello.
Welcome back.
Hey, guys.
Thanks again for having me, Tom.
And, also, I told Tom that he needs to have meon the podcast this week, so I kind of forced
this.
Well, I love having Patrina on, so it was a nobrainer.
(00:25):
And this is gonna be a really, really amazingepisode because so many people that wanted to
go to maps and weren't able to do that gotFOMO, and they were like, hey.
What did I miss?
So we're gonna do an episode really just totalk about all of this year's twenty twenty
five maps meeting so that you don't have tofeel like you missed out.
(00:48):
It's gonna be great.
Before we do that, this episode is brought toyou by Fierce Pharma Engage, which used to be
Mass West.
It's different now because this event actuallybrings together cross functional teams from
marketing, PR communications.
Obviously, medical affairs has its own sectionand then business development and licensing.
(01:11):
It's on September it's I'm sorry.
April 29 to May 1 in San Diego.
It's gonna be awesome.
So check them out at Fierce Pharma Engage.
And then, Petrino, you're doing a session.
You're gonna do that.
Tom and I are going to be there, so you guysshould definitely come say hi.
(01:32):
And, also, I'm doing a session with RalphRueers on AI, and we are going to come in hot
with a bunch of live AI demos.
So if you're kinda feeling uncertain and don'tknow what AI can do, definitely stick around
for that.
And it's the very last session, so that meansno getting the ticket home early.
Stick around to the edge.
(01:52):
Yeah.
I'll be there.
I will be there.
And I hope you guys will too.
Mask West was has always been one of myfavorite events.
This is supposed to be really awesome, so I'mlooking forward to it.
Maps, guys, was a lot of fun.
It was awesome.
And I can't Katrina, I can't tell you manypeople came up to me and were like, oh my god,
Katrina.
Like, she has the best downloads and tools and,like, all this fun stuff.
(02:18):
So, like, before we start, like, what what whatdo you have right now that you can offer
people?
Like, what's the latest?
Yes.
And thanks so much to everybody that comes onto both of my blogs, so medicalaffairsvalue.com
as well as mslmastery.com.
Both of these blogs are jam packed with tons ofdownloads, like a progress tracker for medical
(02:39):
affairs, a time audit for medical affairs.
And what we've started recently that you guysneed to sign up for is our weekly newsletter.
It's called the medical affairs spotlightnewsletter.
It comes out every morning at 8AM.
Sorry.
Pause because I was like, is it 8AM or 7AM?
Comes out Friday morning.
Doesn't matter.
It's seven or 8AM my time.
And we go into all kinds of things like Tom'stakeaway.
(03:03):
So we bring you behind the scenes stuff andadditional information from Tom's Tom's
podcast.
We give you lots of tips.
What else, Tom?
Lots of great stuff in there.
Yeah.
Well, there's an expert corner.
There's there's a theme every week, which isawesome, and there's there's just really good
practical takeaways.
(03:23):
But the one thing is there is it's definitely athis stuff is you know, we don't just give it
away to anybody.
This is definitely proprietary kind of stuff.
So
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
That's right.
We have exclusive content.
If you guys wanna sign up, it'smslmastery.com/newsletter.
I'll say it one more time.
(03:43):
Mslmastery.com/newsletter.
Totally free to sign up.
Yep.
You get the exclusive content and a lot ofreally great practical tips.
Awesome.
Good stuff.
Okay.
Maps.
Let's set the tone.
So where was it?
How many people were there?
What was the vibe?
Like, give me the whole lowdown in youropinion.
(04:04):
Yep.
Alright, guys.
So if you're new to the industry, MAPS standsfor medical affairs professional society.
This is one of the big medical affairsorganizations that really specializes on,
obviously, medical affairs.
This is one of several industry events that ifyou are looking to uplevel in medical affairs,
you should go to this.
And Tom and I, we've been going forever.
(04:26):
I didn't go to Puerto Rico last year, but youwent.
So medical affairs professional society, thiswas their America's meeting that was held in
New Orleans.
The weather was great, wasn't it?
It was, like, I think seventy, eighty degrees.
It was super nice.
It was at the Hyatt Hotel next to thesuperdome.
(04:46):
So imagine you go into this hotel, and it'slike a big complicated maze.
There's, like, all these escalators and stairseverywhere.
They had it well marked, but then the vendorpart was down these stairs kind of in the
basement.
And when you entered the vendor space, imaginethis huge space with a ton of different vendors
(05:09):
in there.
In the front, they had some tables.
Then right away, you saw the Viva booth andsome other booths.
I was hanging out with the Carolyn group booth.
We were in the back right.
And then over in the back left, there waspuppies.
Puppies.
With yeah.
Literal puppies.
I was like, brilliant move maps.
Interestingly, though, it was so spread out.
I didn't even know about the puppies till,like, the second day.
(05:30):
People were like, oh, what?
I was like, there's puppies?
What?
Yeah.
What else would you add about the Yeah.
I I didn't organize a little too spread out forme, and it was a little fragmented.
I guess the only like, if I had to say feedbackfor next year is to keep it a little they've
always had it a little more together, and it'sbeen very exhibitor vendor friendly.
(05:50):
This was a little tough for the vendors becauseI think a lot of people didn't make their way
down there.
But at the same time, I it was just a part ofwhat that hotel situation was.
Another thing that I kept getting confusedabout, I got lost several times, literally.
Because the way you came out of the vendorfloor, you either took stairs up to the next
(06:13):
level or you took the escalator to the third.
And then sessions were on those two differentlevels, and I was always taking the wrong one
on accident.
Yeah.
Don't worry.
By the end, I figured out where to go.
But there was we were hanging out with DevitaWhite, and she kept saying, where are you
going, Katrina?
You're completely turned around, and I was.
Go.
Yeah.
It was like, I'm
so But all good, though.
(06:34):
I mean, it's it's not no knock.
No knock.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was a small thing, and once you got itfigured out, and there were there were signs,
just trying to lay the land for you guys.
A little bit more spread out this year, butreally well attended.
There were Yeah.
Tom, what was it?
1,400 people or so?
Hundred people registered.
Yeah.
There was a lot of people there.
It was huge.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(06:54):
And there were a lot of people that, like,reached out to me after, and they're like, I I
didn't get a chance to see you, but I wasthere.
I'm like, really?
Yeah.
It it was definitely well attended.
Let's talk about the themes that were evidentat this year's maps.
Every year, there's, like, these kind of newthemes.
What what stood out to you?
(07:14):
I think the one that really stood out to me themost was bringing storytelling to patient
centricity.
I've gone to several maps, and we always talkabout patient centricity.
Right?
It's such a medical affairs thing.
But a lot of the panelists or the keynote, forexample, brought these patient stories that
(07:36):
made it feel really real, and it reallyresonated.
Like, Kalynn Taylor Clark gave the keynote, andshe was talking about her family's patient
experiences and her own.
And I was like, I was getting goosebumps.
I was like, wow.
This stuff, it feels so real, and it felt a lotdifferent because we weren't just talking about
(07:56):
it like, oh, we need to be patient centric.
There were examples.
Tom, did you hear anything like that or feelthat as well?
I did.
Yeah.
That that was definitely I heard actually, itwas the buzz how how a lot a lot of people felt
like, wow.
It's really nice to see that the patient's atthe forefront of a lot of these sessions, which
(08:18):
you don't always see.
You don't always get that, but that wasdefinitely one of the things I heard as well.
Before I even read your your recap, yourarticle, I heard that as well.
Yeah.
I thought that was really cool, and it it justalso underline or emphasize the importance of
storytelling.
I think we hear this a lot at these conferencesabout showing impact.
(08:38):
Right?
Like, all these top medical affairs leaderswill go on the stage and say, oh, to
demonstrate impact, you need storytelling.
And I think what was really cool about this isit brought storytelling to patient centricity
and really made it feel real.
Yeah.
Any other themes that like, as you were goingthrough the content and going through some of
the offerings that stuck out?
(09:01):
Yeah.
So I had to just look at my article because Ihad to remind myself what I put in there.
But seven years ago, when I got into medicalaffairs, there were two topics that were coming
up all the time, impact and insights.
These are still coming up all the time.
This was the topic of a lot of differentsessions.
(09:22):
I feel like we've been talking about this sincedinosaurs roamed the earth.
Right?
Like, we were
like Yeah.
How do we show impact in medical affairs?
How do we get insights across the finish line?
What was really cool about this year's sessionswas that they felt very practical to me.
I think other years again, I didn't go toPuerto Rico, so not a good data point on that.
But other years, it was more, like, high leveltalking about the problem versus this year.
(09:47):
I really like that it felt like there were aton of frameworks that people were presenting.
For example, I went to showing impact in medtech, and this was ran by some folks at Veeva.
And if you guys haven't seen that, they put outthis framework for demonstrating impact.
And then during this session, we discussed,will this work for med tech or not?
And it was really cool to hear theconversations between pharma and med tech,
(10:11):
what's similar, what's different, how do theseimpact frameworks work.
And then I really like that it's it's superpractical.
Right?
These are the things you need to do.
As another example, I went to a I forget thetitle of it, but coaching for insights.
This was with Linda Traylor, Melissa Santiago,and Marsha Walkup.
And it was so cool because it was so practical.
(10:31):
They really had a framework for how to coachMSLs on insights and then had really practical
exercises you could do.
That that one was probably my favorite session.
Plus, you know, I'm biased because I likeinsights.
You're the insights queen.
You are known as the insights queen.
Everybody knows that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's it's always still about how doesmedical affairs bring value, show value, and
(10:54):
insights are a huge way of Yeah.
You know, showing impact and therefore showingvalue.
So let me see.
What okay.
Other than the sessions that you attended, youmentioned the patient centricity piece.
(11:15):
You specifically mentioned that in, in yourarticle.
So can you talk a little bit more about that?
Because I didn't attend that one, but I amcurious to hear a little bit more about it.
Well, as I mentioned already, the keynote whereshe discussed some of her own patient stories
from her family and from herself, I think thatwas really cool.
(11:37):
Also, Anna Waltz, she was in a panel sessiontowards the end.
I think it was on the last day, and she justwas harping on this and bringing in those
patient stories again.
And I thought that was really, really cool.
Yeah.
I wish I saw that one.
I definitely wish I saw that one.
Mean, they wish you were there too.
They wish you were there.
(11:57):
Yeah.
I I feel like I was just you know, I was outthere just blabbering and talking to people the
whole time, and I missed a lot of the sessions.
But, you mentioned med tech, and you said inyour article that there was a heavy presence of
med tech.
Can you talk about that?
Yeah.
This was a big difference for me this year.
(12:20):
In prior years that I've been, people have beenlike, what's med tech?
Oh, isn't this just the wild west?
And, yes, that's true.
But this year, you could feel John Praesick'sinfluence all over it.
Right?
He he was up on the stage a lot.
I mean, that's normal.
He he's talk he's a president of MAP, so he'stalking about it a lot.
(12:40):
But it was in sessions.
We had sessions dedicated to med tech.
We had so many people from med tech companiesthat I feel like a couple years ago, it wasn't
like that.
What what was your experience on the med techside, Tom?
Yeah.
So it's it's interesting because the first timeI met John, we had a meeting.
This was, jeez, this was many years ago.
(13:02):
Robin Wintersbury introduced me to to John, andhe asked me what's my experience with med tech.
Where do I where does where do I see it fittinginto the medical affairs landscape?
And and is it something that would be acceptedor acceptable, to develop you know, have it as
(13:23):
a part of of the meeting?
So we actually talked about this was probablyabout five years ago.
And now it's it's like, the the amount ofcompanies that I saw on the the the attendee
list as I was going through it from med tech isway more than I've seen.
So I guess the answer is that, yes, definitely,med tech has arrived.
(13:48):
If you're in that space, I think you shouldconsider going.
Yeah.
And welcome.
Yeah.
And you know what?
It's I you know, I think that that's such agreat thing to see because it shows that the
industry is expanding.
It means a lot more opportunity, for folks.
You know?
And I think it it's good for people like Johnthat have been in it for a long time because I
(14:10):
think it's just a, you know, kind of a sign ofthe times.
Yeah.
It there were so many so many med tech people.
I was like, who who are all these people?
But it it's great because same problems,different people.
Right?
And we can learn a lot from each other andtransfer those best practices.
And, also, I thought it was a really greatopportunity for more creativity in big pharma
(14:34):
or small pharma because you could hear whatthese more device folks focused groups were
doing, and the discussions in the sessions wereso awesome.
I think kudos to John for getting us to bringall these med tech people to maps because that
was a really cool flavor to this year'smeeting.
Yeah.
For sure.
What about AI?
I know that you're huge in the AI space.
(14:58):
You know more than than anyone I know and ofmost people.
How is AI represented?
That's scary.
Right?
I can't I love AI, and I definitely know a lot.
But, man, I could see all the real AI expertsout there.
But hey.
Thank you, Tom.
Yeah.
Interestingly, I expected there to be more.
(15:19):
Right?
It in the recent meetings we've been to, like,even Mass West, it was dominating everything.
It was it had a presence at maps, but it wasn'tas much as I was anticipating.
I didn't even go to AI any AI sessions, whichis kinda weird.
It came up in some of them.
But Yeah.
Additionally, what I did hear around the floorand talking to people was a lot of hesitation.
(15:44):
I thought that this was really interesting thatit wasn't so gung ho.
Like, oh, we've gotta get more AI and bring AIto medical affairs.
There was a lot of skepticism.
What did you see, Tom?
Yeah.
Well, I think that I think that people arestarting to use it.
I think people are starting to adopt it.
There is a lot of skepticism.
But I will say this.
So Vera, your buddy Vera Kuchenko, she did asession.
(16:08):
It was standing room Yeah.
Pack.
And it was the loudest when she was done, shegot, like, this huge ovation.
So shout out to Vera.
She's, like, amazing.
So smart.
And as I was talking to some people that areinterested in AI and are starting to use it, I
think they're just a little confused.
Which tool do I use?
(16:29):
I I'm I'm not that good at at, you know, thethe prompting and the prompt engineering part
of it.
So I think people are getting a littledisillusioned because I don't think they're
good at it.
I also and it's interesting, but Sarah postedabout AI today.
And she was talking about and the topic of AIhallucinations came up.
(16:50):
And the and that's a very real thing where youyou're you're looking for something, you put in
a prompt, and then AI just gives you thiscrazy, like, what?
I don't this doesn't make any sense.
So I think that there's we're in this kind ofgrowing pains portion of of the AI evolution.
(17:12):
Am I am I explaining that right?
Yeah.
I think so.
And, yeah, people have gotten in there.
They're they feel uncertain.
They see a hallucination.
It freaks them out a little bit.
This is something that we really address in ourAI excellence training as well.
How to spot hallucinations, but moreimportantly, how to think strategically about
it.
And I don't wanna derail the whole session totalk about our training.
(17:34):
Yeah.
But I I agree with you, Tom.
I've been feeling this and hearing it as well.
As an example, I was in a session, and and theywere talking about prompting.
And then this MSL was like, why would I ever dothat?
The example was to write an email to write afollow-up email.
And it was his reaction to it was reallyinteresting because he was like, I could do
(17:57):
that so much better.
Why would I even bother doing it in AI?
So, yeah, I think there's a lot of this, likeyou said, confusion and concern and mistrust
around the hallucinations, but it's gonna bereally interesting to see how we evolve Yeah.
In 2025.
Yeah.
It already has.
When you look at the so when you look at maps,we talked about a lot of things that were, that
(18:19):
went well.
Was there anything that stood out in your mindthat you thought didn't go well?
Well, I had a session on time management, andthere was, like, 20 simultaneous sessions.
So I think next time they should put my sessionby itself so everybody attends.
That would be that was definitely anotherthing.
In addition to what we mentioned with it sospread out, there were so many amazing
(18:41):
sessions.
It was really hard to choose.
So when I was looking at the program, Iactually had AI create a conference plan for
me.
It was listing all these sessions all in thesame time slot, and I was like, how can I go to
all of these?
So I think I just wanted to go to everything,and so it was kind of a bummer that I couldn't.
What about for you, Tom?
Yeah.
Well, for I mean, I I talked about this alittle bit before, but the one thing that
(19:06):
wasn't great on the vendor side is that it wewere so far away from where the sessions were
that it was an effort for people to go from thesessions to the exhibits.
The other part was the food wasn't so great,and there was no breakfast.
So that meant that people started to catch onthat they would go all the way down to the
(19:28):
exhibit hall, and they would just bedisappointed because there wasn't a real good
selection of food or any food at all.
So then they stopped coming.
So the traffic wasn't as good.
Now granted, I don't like, we we met a lot ofreally awesome people.
There was a really nice reception, the firstnight, and then they did this amazing event on
(19:50):
on Monday night.
We could talk about that next.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
You know?
But I just think that it wasn't as vendor notand it was totally unintentional because
they're very good to vendors, but it wasn't asadvantageous to the vendors this year because
of the logistics.
So that kinda stuck out.
Yeah.
I actually so I when I travel like this, Iwanna make sure I'm well fed.
(20:12):
Otherwise, I'll get grumpy and not wanna go tosessions.
So I have this little bag of granola bars.
I gave them all away because people werehungry.
Yeah.
Right?
I was like, oh, hey.
Do you want a granola bar?
Do you want a granola bar?
And then there was a bunch of us in the frontrow of a session with all our granola bar
wrappers crinkling.
Right?
But but, yeah, I hear
the only one.
Yeah.
(20:32):
I kept going up.
There was, like, a little convenience store onthe Second Floor, and I kept going in there and
grabbing bars.
And then Amy Penelli was like, dude, you boughtall the bars that I wanted.
They're gone.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, man.
But talk about Monday night.
What did you think of the event on Mondaynight?
(20:53):
So Monday night, the big networking event wasthat we did a parade over to the Superdome.
And what was really cool about that is theyhanded out costumes is a strong word, but,
like, masks and beads and stuff.
So very New Orleans feeling.
And then we all marched out, and they had amarching band, a really cool marching band.
(21:17):
And I swear we took the longest possible routeto get to the Super Dome.
Right?
Because it was right next door, but we marchedfor, like, thirty minutes.
I swear.
But that was really cool just to have the kidsthere.
They had, you know, the marching band peopledancing and the band playing, obviously.
Obviously, I'm not a marching band person.
(21:38):
I don't know what the right terms for this.
But then we got to the superdome, and when wewent in, everything was set up on the floor.
And so it was pretty cool to go into this hugestadium and see I was surprised it actually
felt kinda small because I think that stadiumholds, like, 50,000 people.
Right?
It it seems small.
And because the was ripped up.
(21:59):
Not ripped up.
The field wasn't rolled out.
So it was concrete.
So you're walking on what you think should be agrass turf field, and it you were on concrete,
and it that really tightened it up.
But then again, there were a lot of, like,events and displays and stands and clues.
Like and stuff.
Games.
(22:19):
They had these lit lit up swings.
There was a stage.
Some people were dancing.
They had this really cool photo thing, which,Tom, we messed up.
We didn't get one of those three d photos.
Yeah.
Photo thing.
Super cool.
I'm sure some folks have seen that on LinkedIn.
Also, it had a bunch of food.
When you walked into did you notice there wasthat Dodge Ram or that Dodge truck in the
front?
(22:39):
I was like, why did they park
that truck right there?
By the thing.
It's like, it delivered the food or something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it was I thought it was pretty cool goingin there.
It felt pretty special, right, just to be kindof in the middle of that where most likely,
you're not down on the field, but more in thestadium or in the stands.
So I thought that was that was pretty cool.
(22:59):
MAPS does a great job every year with details.
There's always really finer details that theyyou mentioned it before the puppies.
Like, you could actually go and adopt a puppy.
Three puppies got adopted.
It's amazing.
Yeah.
When thinking about details, if you looking atnext year, future year and you know what?
(23:22):
This could be a question for any conferences.
Like, what's your advice?
You go to enough conferences.
What would be your advice to the planningcommittee committee for next year's conference?
This is completely biased, but I would sayinvest heavily in good coffee.
I you could just keep everybody really hothappy with really good coffee.
(23:45):
Yeah.
We were calling this coffee devil juice.
It
was so bad.
I would say coffee would be a good one for me.
What about for you, Tom?
Yeah.
I I think, like, coffee and food.
You you want people and I know that the foodgets expensive.
I know that that's a big part of it.
And I'm sure this year, it probably wasn'tcheap renting the Superdome.
(24:10):
I have to imagine that that was a huge hugenumber.
But, you know, at the same time, I think thateven a continental breakfast in the morning
where people can go and grab some yogurt, grabsome fruit, grab some granola bars, good
coffee, and just be able to know that whenthey're going to the the networking sections
(24:32):
Yeah.
That there's gonna be something to snack on.
The lunch, make it it's just make it a buffet.
Let people have options.
That's better than I think what they tried todo is provide more of a grab and go kinda
concept or the head to you know?
It it just I I didn't think it worked well.
(24:54):
But, you mean, again, there's there's probablya a reason behind it.
So.
Yeah.
Well, guys, you can see what Tom and I clearlycare most about.
We're like, give us good food and give us goodcoffee, and we're happy.
Yeah.
I But, overall, I think it was so great.
It was It was great.
It was great.
And the they had a really nice app.
(25:15):
I think it's important.
You have to have a good app for your to supportyour conference.
I thought that they did a good job with that.
They had a gaming.
There was a gamification thing where peoplewould go come to your booth.
They'd scan a QR code, and you got entered intothis contest for prizes.
So the more
$500.
Right?
(25:35):
Bucks.
Yeah.
I think the top person got $500.
Yeah.
That's legit.
So, I mean, you know, I appreciate that.
If when you look at so would you say that nextyear, would your advice be to have less
sessions or how or do it differently?
Oh, man.
I don't know.
That's a really good question.
(25:56):
I think, yeah, maybe no.
The session, I was my brain went to shortersessions, but in a lot of the longer ones that
I was in, that was good amount of time.
Like, we needed that amount of time.
So yeah.
I don't know.
What do you think?
Yeah.
I think it was everybody that I talked to waslike, too many options.
Too many sessions.
(26:17):
Yeah.
So maybe fewer.
Down based upon what I heard.
When you if you look a year ahead, right, soit's a year from now, and we're recapping from
maps.
As fast as everything's moving right now inthis day and age, what do you think we're
talking about a year from now as far as, like,content?
(26:38):
What's gonna be the what are gonna be thethemes, do you think?
I don't think insights and impact will ever goaway.
Okay.
Like, I think that will still be there.
Hopefully, we continue to evolve towards morepractical application and also more stories.
Right?
I noticed what a lot of people want is theywanna know how other companies are doing
something or how other teams are thinking aboutsomething.
(27:01):
Yeah.
And that was happening a lot this year.
There were more actual stories and practicalframeworks that you could go away with.
And, I mean, of course, AI is gonna be there.
Right?
I I don't know where it's going to be.
Maybe, you know, it'll be all about custom GPTsand no more prompting, but I don't know.
What do you think is gonna come up as the hottopics for Denver?
(27:23):
One of the things well, Denver is gonna be likea home game for them because that's where
they're based.
Gonna be awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it is.
But one of the things that that I hope isdifferent next year is that there's less job
seekers in attendance.
I noticed a lot of
people Yes.
(27:43):
Were there because they were out of work.
Yep.
I saw the I noticed the same thing.
Did you notice that?
Yep.
And it's very high level people Yeah.
As well.
It wasn't like aspiring MSLs, which those folksare always great to meet.
This was VP level people looking for jobs.
Yeah.
A lot.
And a lot of them are on faculty.
I had a lot of meetings, a lot ofconversations.
(28:04):
There was a lot of resumes being, you know,passed around, so to speak, obviously,
digitally.
Yeah.
Tom was texting all his friends for
a couple yay.
Yeah.
I
actually, we had, like, three or four people inour Aspire MSL program that were there, so it
was good to see those guys.
Yeah.
So proud.
Yeah.
Representing.
(28:25):
I I really hope that next year is gonna bedifferent.
The, you know, the market continues to reap.
It's trying to rebound from a very bad 2024.
Yeah.
And, hopefully, 2025 is gonna be a much betteryear.
We're gonna see a different scenario in 2026.
Yeah.
I hope so.
I totally agree.
I think for 2026, I hope MAP keeps on thistrajectory of creating this great content,
(28:48):
making it more practical, bringing these groupsof people that weren't talking before together
to have these conversations.
And to your point, Tom, not so many job seekersout there that the market picks up.
Yeah.
Alright.
I don't wanna put you on the spot, but I'mgonna put you on the spot.
You already have.
Again I know.
I can't
help it.
That's why people listen to this podcast.
(29:08):
Like, we don't know what Tom's gonna say next.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Now I'm scared.
You did a session this year.
It was awesome.
Amazing.
I was there.
Are you gonna do a session next year?
And if so, what's the topic?
What are Cool.
What are some of the potential Katrina topicsfor next year?
I would say because I'm so excited about AIright now.
(29:29):
I just think it is a complete game changer.
Of course, I would love to do an AI session.
All the stuff I've been doing recently, andit's really been resonating with folks, is on
practical stuff.
So if you go on to my blog, I give prompts thatyou could copy and paste lots of different use
cases.
I really want people to appreciate it for thecreativity tool that it is.
(29:51):
Like, it can just really boost your creativity.
I would say another thing I'm really excitedabout are the workshops and frameworks that
we've been developing at MSL Mastery onInsights.
I know this is my background, but Tom, Sarah,and I have done some really cool revamps is the
wrong word, but development of new sessions.
(30:14):
So what we've been doing is really listening tothe people that are in our communities that we
interact with on LinkedIn and figuring out whatthe problems are and then building workshops
for that.
So it's almost like we're solving problems inreal time, and I keep seeing these recurring
themes come up with insights.
And so I'm really excited about our newinsights framework that we've been workshopping
(30:36):
with different teams.
It's amazing.
And it it just keeps getting better and better,and I and the response has been overwhelming in
how effective it is, how impactful it is.
So that's I'm I'm also very proud of that.
But you guys are the creators.
You guys are the, I mean, geniuses, guys, thatI get to work with.
Geniuses.
I just barely I'm just trying to keep up.
(30:57):
I'm just trying
to keep up.
It is so fun.
We just hear a problem or notice a pattern or atrend, and then we make something to help
people with it.
It's like, we're in such a cool position rightnow, and huge thanks to everybody that's
following us and supporting us and working withus.
We're so excited about these innovativetraining programs that we're bringing.
(31:18):
Hey, guys.
Seriously, Sign up for the newsletter.
Check it out.
It's free.
You follow Katrina on LinkedIn.
Follow me.
Follow Sarah.
You'll see us.
You know, it's in there, and it's free.
You can expect to see it every Friday morning,and it's really great takeaways.
And thank you guys for all your support.
Thank you for your support of this show.
(31:38):
Thank you for for your support of us onLinkedIn.
And, yeah, anything?
Final words, Katrina?
Sign up for the newsletter atMSLMastery.com/newsletter and share your
feedback with us.
We really take this seriously.
And like I just mentioned, the content that webuild and all this great stuff we put out is
(31:59):
because of what people tell us and what we'rehearing out in the field.
So Yeah.
Please feel free to reach out to me, Tom, orSarah.
We love it, and we really, really appreciateall you guys.
And we hope that we see you in Denver in
2026 for maps.
Next year.
Guys, once again, maps folks, you guys did agreat job.
Crushed it.
John and team, Pedro and Travis and the wholecrew.
(32:24):
Yeah.
You guys are great.
Everybody.
Twenty twenty six, baby.
Denver, we'll see you there.
Yep.
Yep.
Awesome.
Thanks.
Bye, guys.
Hey, guys.
Welcome to the podcast.
I have a very, very special guest this week,Petrina Pellet.
Please say hello.
Welcome back.
Hey, guys.
Thanks again for having me, Tom.
And, also, I told Tom that he needs to have meon the podcast this week, so I kind of forced
this.
Well, I love having Patrina on, so it was a nobrainer.
(00:25):
And this is gonna be a really, really amazingepisode because so many people that wanted to
go to maps and weren't able to do that gotFOMO, and they were like, hey.
What did I miss?
So we're gonna do an episode really just totalk about all of this year's twenty twenty
five maps meeting so that you don't have tofeel like you missed out.
(00:48):
It's gonna be great.
Before we do that, this episode is brought toyou by Fierce Pharma Engage, which used to be
Mass West.
It's different now because this event actuallybrings together cross functional teams from
marketing, PR communications.
Obviously, medical affairs has its own sectionand then business development and licensing.
(01:11):
It's on September it's I'm sorry.
April 29 to May 1 in San Diego.
It's gonna be awesome.
So check them out at Fierce Pharma Engage.
And then, Petrino, you're doing a session.
You're gonna do that.
Tom and I are going to be there, so you guysshould definitely come say hi.
(01:32):
And, also, I'm doing a session with RalphRueers on AI, and we are going to come in hot
with a bunch of live AI demos.
So if you're kinda feeling uncertain and don'tknow what AI can do, definitely stick around
for that.
And it's the very last session, so that meansno getting the ticket home early.
Stick around to the edge.
(01:52):
Yeah.
I'll be there.
I will be there.
And I hope you guys will too.
Mask West was has always been one of myfavorite events.
This is supposed to be really awesome, so I'mlooking forward to it.
Maps, guys, was a lot of fun.
It was awesome.
And I can't Katrina, I can't tell you manypeople came up to me and were like, oh my god,
Katrina.
Like, she has the best downloads and tools and,like, all this fun stuff.
(02:18):
So, like, before we start, like, what what whatdo you have right now that you can offer
people?
Like, what's the latest?
Yes.
And thanks so much to everybody that comes onto both of my blogs, so medicalaffairsvalue.com
as well as mslmastery.com.
Both of these blogs are jam packed with tons ofdownloads, like a progress tracker for medical
(02:39):
affairs, a time audit for medical affairs.
And what we've started recently that you guysneed to sign up for is our weekly newsletter.
It's called the medical affairs spotlightnewsletter.
It comes out every morning at 8AM.
Sorry.
Pause because I was like, is it 8AM or 7AM?
Comes out Friday morning.
Doesn't matter.
It's seven or 8AM my time.
And we go into all kinds of things like Tom'stakeaway.
(03:03):
So we bring you behind the scenes stuff andadditional information from Tom's Tom's
podcast.
We give you lots of tips.
What else, Tom?
Lots of great stuff in there.
Yeah.
Well, there's an expert corner.
There's there's a theme every week, which isawesome, and there's there's just really good
practical takeaways.
(03:23):
But the one thing is there is it's definitely athis stuff is you know, we don't just give it
away to anybody.
This is definitely proprietary kind of stuff.
So
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
That's right.
We have exclusive content.
If you guys wanna sign up, it'smslmastery.com/newsletter.
I'll say it one more time.
(03:43):
Mslmastery.com/newsletter.
Totally free to sign up.
Yep.
You get the exclusive content and a lot ofreally great practical tips.
Awesome.
Good stuff.
Okay.
Maps.
Let's set the tone.
So where was it?
How many people were there?
What was the vibe?
Like, give me the whole lowdown in youropinion.
(04:04):
Yep.
Alright, guys.
So if you're new to the industry, MAPS standsfor medical affairs professional society.
This is one of the big medical affairsorganizations that really specializes on,
obviously, medical affairs.
This is one of several industry events that ifyou are looking to uplevel in medical affairs,
you should go to this.
And Tom and I, we've been going forever.
(04:26):
I didn't go to Puerto Rico last year, but youwent.
So medical affairs professional society, thiswas their America's meeting that was held in
New Orleans.
The weather was great, wasn't it?
It was, like, I think seventy, eighty degrees.
It was super nice.
It was at the Hyatt Hotel next to thesuperdome.
(04:46):
So imagine you go into this hotel, and it'slike a big complicated maze.
There's, like, all these escalators and stairseverywhere.
They had it well marked, but then the vendorpart was down these stairs kind of in the
basement.
And when you entered the vendor space, imaginethis huge space with a ton of different vendors
(05:09):
in there.
In the front, they had some tables.
Then right away, you saw the Viva booth andsome other booths.
I was hanging out with the Carolyn group booth.
We were in the back right.
And then over in the back left, there waspuppies.
Puppies.
With yeah.
Literal puppies.
I was like, brilliant move maps.
Interestingly, though, it was so spread out.
I didn't even know about the puppies till,like, the second day.
(05:30):
People were like, oh, what?
I was like, there's puppies?
What?
Yeah.
What else would you add about the Yeah.
I I didn't organize a little too spread out forme, and it was a little fragmented.
I guess the only like, if I had to say feedbackfor next year is to keep it a little they've
always had it a little more together, and it'sbeen very exhibitor vendor friendly.
(05:50):
This was a little tough for the vendors becauseI think a lot of people didn't make their way
down there.
But at the same time, I it was just a part ofwhat that hotel situation was.
Another thing that I kept getting confusedabout, I got lost several times, literally.
Because the way you came out of the vendorfloor, you either took stairs up to the next
(06:13):
level or you took the escalator to the third.
And then sessions were on those two differentlevels, and I was always taking the wrong one
on accident.
Yeah.
Don't worry.
By the end, I figured out where to go.
But there was we were hanging out with DevitaWhite, and she kept saying, where are you
going, Katrina?
You're completely turned around, and I was.
Go.
Yeah.
It was like, I'm
so But all good, though.
(06:34):
I mean, it's it's not no knock.
No knock.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was a small thing, and once you got itfigured out, and there were there were signs,
just trying to lay the land for you guys.
A little bit more spread out this year, butreally well attended.
There were Yeah.
Tom, what was it?
1,400 people or so?
Hundred people registered.
Yeah.
There was a lot of people there.
It was huge.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(06:54):
And there were a lot of people that, like,reached out to me after, and they're like, I I
didn't get a chance to see you, but I wasthere.
I'm like, really?
Yeah.
It it was definitely well attended.
Let's talk about the themes that were evidentat this year's maps.
Every year, there's, like, these kind of newthemes.
What what stood out to you?
(07:14):
I think the one that really stood out to me themost was bringing storytelling to patient
centricity.
I've gone to several maps, and we always talkabout patient centricity.
Right?
It's such a medical affairs thing.
But a lot of the panelists or the keynote, forexample, brought these patient stories that
(07:36):
made it feel really real, and it reallyresonated.
Like, Kalynn Taylor Clark gave the keynote, andshe was talking about her family's patient
experiences and her own.
And I was like, I was getting goosebumps.
I was like, wow.
This stuff, it feels so real, and it felt a lotdifferent because we weren't just talking about
(07:56):
it like, oh, we need to be patient centric.
There were examples.
Tom, did you hear anything like that or feelthat as well?
I did.
Yeah.
That that was definitely I heard actually, itwas the buzz how how a lot a lot of people felt
like, wow.
It's really nice to see that the patient's atthe forefront of a lot of these sessions, which
(08:18):
you don't always see.
You don't always get that, but that wasdefinitely one of the things I heard as well.
Before I even read your your recap, yourarticle, I heard that as well.
Yeah.
I thought that was really cool, and it it justalso underline or emphasize the importance of
storytelling.
I think we hear this a lot at these conferencesabout showing impact.
(08:38):
Right?
Like, all these top medical affairs leaderswill go on the stage and say, oh, to
demonstrate impact, you need storytelling.
And I think what was really cool about this isit brought storytelling to patient centricity
and really made it feel real.
Yeah.
Any other themes that like, as you were goingthrough the content and going through some of
the offerings that stuck out?
(09:01):
Yeah.
So I had to just look at my article because Ihad to remind myself what I put in there.
But seven years ago, when I got into medicalaffairs, there were two topics that were coming
up all the time, impact and insights.
These are still coming up all the time.
This was the topic of a lot of differentsessions.
(09:22):
I feel like we've been talking about this sincedinosaurs roamed the earth.
Right?
Like, we were
like Yeah.
How do we show impact in medical affairs?
How do we get insights across the finish line?
What was really cool about this year's sessionswas that they felt very practical to me.
I think other years again, I didn't go toPuerto Rico, so not a good data point on that.
But other years, it was more, like, high leveltalking about the problem versus this year.
(09:47):
I really like that it felt like there were aton of frameworks that people were presenting.
For example, I went to showing impact in medtech, and this was ran by some folks at Veeva.
And if you guys haven't seen that, they put outthis framework for demonstrating impact.
And then during this session, we discussed,will this work for med tech or not?
And it was really cool to hear theconversations between pharma and med tech,
(10:11):
what's similar, what's different, how do theseimpact frameworks work.
And then I really like that it's it's superpractical.
Right?
These are the things you need to do.
As another example, I went to a I forget thetitle of it, but coaching for insights.
This was with Linda Traylor, Melissa Santiago,and Marsha Walkup.
And it was so cool because it was so practical.
(10:31):
They really had a framework for how to coachMSLs on insights and then had really practical
exercises you could do.
That that one was probably my favorite session.
Plus, you know, I'm biased because I likeinsights.
You're the insights queen.
You are known as the insights queen.
Everybody knows that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's it's always still about how doesmedical affairs bring value, show value, and
(10:54):
insights are a huge way of Yeah.
You know, showing impact and therefore showingvalue.
So let me see.
What okay.
Other than the sessions that you attended, youmentioned the patient centricity piece.
(11:15):
You specifically mentioned that in, in yourarticle.
So can you talk a little bit more about that?
Because I didn't attend that one, but I amcurious to hear a little bit more about it.
Well, as I mentioned already, the keynote whereshe discussed some of her own patient stories
from her family and from herself, I think thatwas really cool.
(11:37):
Also, Anna Waltz, she was in a panel sessiontowards the end.
I think it was on the last day, and she justwas harping on this and bringing in those
patient stories again.
And I thought that was really, really cool.
Yeah.
I wish I saw that one.
I definitely wish I saw that one.
Mean, they wish you were there too.
They wish you were there.
(11:57):
Yeah.
I I feel like I was just you know, I was outthere just blabbering and talking to people the
whole time, and I missed a lot of the sessions.
But, you mentioned med tech, and you said inyour article that there was a heavy presence of
med tech.
Can you talk about that?
Yeah.
This was a big difference for me this year.
(12:20):
In prior years that I've been, people have beenlike, what's med tech?
Oh, isn't this just the wild west?
And, yes, that's true.
But this year, you could feel John Praesick'sinfluence all over it.
Right?
He he was up on the stage a lot.
I mean, that's normal.
He he's talk he's a president of MAP, so he'stalking about it a lot.
(12:40):
But it was in sessions.
We had sessions dedicated to med tech.
We had so many people from med tech companiesthat I feel like a couple years ago, it wasn't
like that.
What what was your experience on the med techside, Tom?
Yeah.
So it's it's interesting because the first timeI met John, we had a meeting.
This was, jeez, this was many years ago.
(13:02):
Robin Wintersbury introduced me to to John, andhe asked me what's my experience with med tech.
Where do I where does where do I see it fittinginto the medical affairs landscape?
And and is it something that would be acceptedor acceptable, to develop you know, have it as
(13:23):
a part of of the meeting?
So we actually talked about this was probablyabout five years ago.
And now it's it's like, the the amount ofcompanies that I saw on the the the attendee
list as I was going through it from med tech isway more than I've seen.
So I guess the answer is that, yes, definitely,med tech has arrived.
(13:48):
If you're in that space, I think you shouldconsider going.
Yeah.
And welcome.
Yeah.
And you know what?
It's I you know, I think that that's such agreat thing to see because it shows that the
industry is expanding.
It means a lot more opportunity, for folks.
You know?
And I think it it's good for people like Johnthat have been in it for a long time because I
(14:10):
think it's just a, you know, kind of a sign ofthe times.
Yeah.
It there were so many so many med tech people.
I was like, who who are all these people?
But it it's great because same problems,different people.
Right?
And we can learn a lot from each other andtransfer those best practices.
And, also, I thought it was a really greatopportunity for more creativity in big pharma
(14:34):
or small pharma because you could hear whatthese more device folks focused groups were
doing, and the discussions in the sessions wereso awesome.
I think kudos to John for getting us to bringall these med tech people to maps because that
was a really cool flavor to this year'smeeting.
Yeah.
For sure.
What about AI?
I know that you're huge in the AI space.
(14:58):
You know more than than anyone I know and ofmost people.
How is AI represented?
That's scary.
Right?
I can't I love AI, and I definitely know a lot.
But, man, I could see all the real AI expertsout there.
But hey.
Thank you, Tom.
Yeah.
Interestingly, I expected there to be more.
(15:19):
Right?
It in the recent meetings we've been to, like,even Mass West, it was dominating everything.
It was it had a presence at maps, but it wasn'tas much as I was anticipating.
I didn't even go to AI any AI sessions, whichis kinda weird.
It came up in some of them.
But Yeah.
Additionally, what I did hear around the floorand talking to people was a lot of hesitation.
(15:44):
I thought that this was really interesting thatit wasn't so gung ho.
Like, oh, we've gotta get more AI and bring AIto medical affairs.
There was a lot of skepticism.
What did you see, Tom?
Yeah.
Well, I think that I think that people arestarting to use it.
I think people are starting to adopt it.
There is a lot of skepticism.
But I will say this.
So Vera, your buddy Vera Kuchenko, she did asession.
(16:08):
It was standing room Yeah.
Pack.
And it was the loudest when she was done, shegot, like, this huge ovation.
So shout out to Vera.
She's, like, amazing.
So smart.
And as I was talking to some people that areinterested in AI and are starting to use it, I
think they're just a little confused.
Which tool do I use?
(16:29):
I I'm I'm not that good at at, you know, thethe prompting and the prompt engineering part
of it.
So I think people are getting a littledisillusioned because I don't think they're
good at it.
I also and it's interesting, but Sarah postedabout AI today.
And she was talking about and the topic of AIhallucinations came up.
(16:50):
And the and that's a very real thing where youyou're you're looking for something, you put in
a prompt, and then AI just gives you thiscrazy, like, what?
I don't this doesn't make any sense.
So I think that there's we're in this kind ofgrowing pains portion of of the AI evolution.
(17:12):
Am I am I explaining that right?
Yeah.
I think so.
And, yeah, people have gotten in there.
They're they feel uncertain.
They see a hallucination.
It freaks them out a little bit.
This is something that we really address in ourAI excellence training as well.
How to spot hallucinations, but moreimportantly, how to think strategically about
it.
And I don't wanna derail the whole session totalk about our training.
(17:34):
Yeah.
But I I agree with you, Tom.
I've been feeling this and hearing it as well.
As an example, I was in a session, and and theywere talking about prompting.
And then this MSL was like, why would I ever dothat?
The example was to write an email to write afollow-up email.
And it was his reaction to it was reallyinteresting because he was like, I could do
(17:57):
that so much better.
Why would I even bother doing it in AI?
So, yeah, I think there's a lot of this, likeyou said, confusion and concern and mistrust
around the hallucinations, but it's gonna bereally interesting to see how we evolve Yeah.
In 2025.
Yeah.
It already has.
When you look at the so when you look at maps,we talked about a lot of things that were, that
(18:19):
went well.
Was there anything that stood out in your mindthat you thought didn't go well?
Well, I had a session on time management, andthere was, like, 20 simultaneous sessions.
So I think next time they should put my sessionby itself so everybody attends.
That would be that was definitely anotherthing.
In addition to what we mentioned with it sospread out, there were so many amazing
(18:41):
sessions.
It was really hard to choose.
So when I was looking at the program, Iactually had AI create a conference plan for
me.
It was listing all these sessions all in thesame time slot, and I was like, how can I go to
all of these?
So I think I just wanted to go to everything,and so it was kind of a bummer that I couldn't.
What about for you, Tom?
Yeah.
Well, for I mean, I I talked about this alittle bit before, but the one thing that
(19:06):
wasn't great on the vendor side is that it wewere so far away from where the sessions were
that it was an effort for people to go from thesessions to the exhibits.
The other part was the food wasn't so great,and there was no breakfast.
So that meant that people started to catch onthat they would go all the way down to the
(19:28):
exhibit hall, and they would just bedisappointed because there wasn't a real good
selection of food or any food at all.
So then they stopped coming.
So the traffic wasn't as good.
Now granted, I don't like, we we met a lot ofreally awesome people.
There was a really nice reception, the firstnight, and then they did this amazing event on
(19:50):
on Monday night.
We could talk about that next.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
You know?
But I just think that it wasn't as vendor notand it was totally unintentional because
they're very good to vendors, but it wasn't asadvantageous to the vendors this year because
of the logistics.
So that kinda stuck out.
Yeah.
I actually so I when I travel like this, Iwanna make sure I'm well fed.
(20:12):
Otherwise, I'll get grumpy and not wanna go tosessions.
So I have this little bag of granola bars.
I gave them all away because people werehungry.
Yeah.
Right?
I was like, oh, hey.
Do you want a granola bar?
Do you want a granola bar?
And then there was a bunch of us in the frontrow of a session with all our granola bar
wrappers crinkling.
Right?
But but, yeah, I hear
the only one.
Yeah.
(20:32):
I kept going up.
There was, like, a little convenience store onthe Second Floor, and I kept going in there and
grabbing bars.
And then Amy Penelli was like, dude, you boughtall the bars that I wanted.
They're gone.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, man.
But talk about Monday night.
What did you think of the event on Mondaynight?
(20:53):
So Monday night, the big networking event wasthat we did a parade over to the Superdome.
And what was really cool about that is theyhanded out costumes is a strong word, but,
like, masks and beads and stuff.
So very New Orleans feeling.
And then we all marched out, and they had amarching band, a really cool marching band.
(21:17):
And I swear we took the longest possible routeto get to the Super Dome.
Right?
Because it was right next door, but we marchedfor, like, thirty minutes.
I swear.
But that was really cool just to have the kidsthere.
They had, you know, the marching band peopledancing and the band playing, obviously.
Obviously, I'm not a marching band person.
(21:38):
I don't know what the right terms for this.
But then we got to the superdome, and when wewent in, everything was set up on the floor.
And so it was pretty cool to go into this hugestadium and see I was surprised it actually
felt kinda small because I think that stadiumholds, like, 50,000 people.
Right?
It it seems small.
And because the was ripped up.
(21:59):
Not ripped up.
The field wasn't rolled out.
So it was concrete.
So you're walking on what you think should be agrass turf field, and it you were on concrete,
and it that really tightened it up.
But then again, there were a lot of, like,events and displays and stands and clues.
Like and stuff.
Games.
(22:19):
They had these lit lit up swings.
There was a stage.
Some people were dancing.
They had this really cool photo thing, which,Tom, we messed up.
We didn't get one of those three d photos.
Yeah.
Photo thing.
Super cool.
I'm sure some folks have seen that on LinkedIn.
Also, it had a bunch of food.
When you walked into did you notice there wasthat Dodge Ram or that Dodge truck in the
front?
(22:39):
I was like, why did they park
that truck right there?
By the thing.
It's like, it delivered the food or something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it was I thought it was pretty cool goingin there.
It felt pretty special, right, just to be kindof in the middle of that where most likely,
you're not down on the field, but more in thestadium or in the stands.
So I thought that was that was pretty cool.
(22:59):
MAPS does a great job every year with details.
There's always really finer details that theyyou mentioned it before the puppies.
Like, you could actually go and adopt a puppy.
Three puppies got adopted.
It's amazing.
Yeah.
When thinking about details, if you looking atnext year, future year and you know what?
(23:22):
This could be a question for any conferences.
Like, what's your advice?
You go to enough conferences.
What would be your advice to the planningcommittee committee for next year's conference?
This is completely biased, but I would sayinvest heavily in good coffee.
I you could just keep everybody really hothappy with really good coffee.
(23:45):
Yeah.
We were calling this coffee devil juice.
It
was so bad.
I would say coffee would be a good one for me.
What about for you, Tom?
Yeah.
I I think, like, coffee and food.
You you want people and I know that the foodgets expensive.
I know that that's a big part of it.
And I'm sure this year, it probably wasn'tcheap renting the Superdome.
(24:10):
I have to imagine that that was a huge hugenumber.
But, you know, at the same time, I think thateven a continental breakfast in the morning
where people can go and grab some yogurt, grabsome fruit, grab some granola bars, good
coffee, and just be able to know that whenthey're going to the the networking sections
(24:32):
Yeah.
That there's gonna be something to snack on.
The lunch, make it it's just make it a buffet.
Let people have options.
That's better than I think what they tried todo is provide more of a grab and go kinda
concept or the head to you know?
It it just I I didn't think it worked well.
(24:54):
But, you mean, again, there's there's probablya a reason behind it.
So.
Yeah.
Well, guys, you can see what Tom and I clearlycare most about.
We're like, give us good food and give us goodcoffee, and we're happy.
Yeah.
I But, overall, I think it was so great.
It was It was great.
It was great.
And the they had a really nice app.
(25:15):
I think it's important.
You have to have a good app for your to supportyour conference.
I thought that they did a good job with that.
They had a gaming.
There was a gamification thing where peoplewould go come to your booth.
They'd scan a QR code, and you got entered intothis contest for prizes.
So the more
$500.
Right?
(25:35):
Bucks.
Yeah.
I think the top person got $500.
Yeah.
That's legit.
So, I mean, you know, I appreciate that.
If when you look at so would you say that nextyear, would your advice be to have less
sessions or how or do it differently?
Oh, man.
I don't know.
That's a really good question.
(25:56):
I think, yeah, maybe no.
The session, I was my brain went to shortersessions, but in a lot of the longer ones that
I was in, that was good amount of time.
Like, we needed that amount of time.
So yeah.
I don't know.
What do you think?
Yeah.
I think it was everybody that I talked to waslike, too many options.
Too many sessions.
(26:17):
Yeah.
So maybe fewer.
Down based upon what I heard.
When you if you look a year ahead, right, soit's a year from now, and we're recapping from
maps.
As fast as everything's moving right now inthis day and age, what do you think we're
talking about a year from now as far as, like,content?
(26:38):
What's gonna be the what are gonna be thethemes, do you think?
I don't think insights and impact will ever goaway.
Okay.
Like, I think that will still be there.
Hopefully, we continue to evolve towards morepractical application and also more stories.
Right?
I noticed what a lot of people want is theywanna know how other companies are doing
something or how other teams are thinking aboutsomething.
(27:01):
Yeah.
And that was happening a lot this year.
There were more actual stories and practicalframeworks that you could go away with.
And, I mean, of course, AI is gonna be there.
Right?
I I don't know where it's going to be.
Maybe, you know, it'll be all about custom GPTsand no more prompting, but I don't know.
What do you think is gonna come up as the hottopics for Denver?
(27:23):
One of the things well, Denver is gonna be likea home game for them because that's where
they're based.
Gonna be awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it is.
But one of the things that that I hope isdifferent next year is that there's less job
seekers in attendance.
I noticed a lot of
people Yes.
(27:43):
Were there because they were out of work.
Yep.
I saw the I noticed the same thing.
Did you notice that?
Yep.
And it's very high level people Yeah.
As well.
It wasn't like aspiring MSLs, which those folksare always great to meet.
This was VP level people looking for jobs.
Yeah.
A lot.
And a lot of them are on faculty.
I had a lot of meetings, a lot ofconversations.
(28:04):
There was a lot of resumes being, you know,passed around, so to speak, obviously,
digitally.
Yeah.
Tom was texting all his friends for
a couple yay.
Yeah.
I
actually, we had, like, three or four people inour Aspire MSL program that were there, so it
was good to see those guys.
Yeah.
So proud.
Yeah.
Representing.
(28:25):
I I really hope that next year is gonna bedifferent.
The, you know, the market continues to reap.
It's trying to rebound from a very bad 2024.
Yeah.
And, hopefully, 2025 is gonna be a much betteryear.
We're gonna see a different scenario in 2026.
Yeah.
I hope so.
I totally agree.
I think for 2026, I hope MAP keeps on thistrajectory of creating this great content,
(28:48):
making it more practical, bringing these groupsof people that weren't talking before together
to have these conversations.
And to your point, Tom, not so many job seekersout there that the market picks up.
Yeah.
Alright.
I don't wanna put you on the spot, but I'mgonna put you on the spot.
You already have.
Again I know.
I can't
help it.
That's why people listen to this podcast.
(29:08):
Like, we don't know what Tom's gonna say next.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Now I'm scared.
You did a session this year.
It was awesome.
Amazing.
I was there.
Are you gonna do a session next year?
And if so, what's the topic?
What are Cool.
What are some of the potential Katrina topicsfor next year?
I would say because I'm so excited about AIright now.
(29:29):
I just think it is a complete game changer.
Of course, I would love to do an AI session.
All the stuff I've been doing recently, andit's really been resonating with folks, is on
practical stuff.
So if you go on to my blog, I give prompts thatyou could copy and paste lots of different use
cases.
I really want people to appreciate it for thecreativity tool that it is.
(29:51):
Like, it can just really boost your creativity.
I would say another thing I'm really excitedabout are the workshops and frameworks that
we've been developing at MSL Mastery onInsights.
I know this is my background, but Tom, Sarah,and I have done some really cool revamps is the
wrong word, but development of new sessions.
(30:14):
So what we've been doing is really listening tothe people that are in our communities that we
interact with on LinkedIn and figuring out whatthe problems are and then building workshops
for that.
So it's almost like we're solving problems inreal time, and I keep seeing these recurring
themes come up with insights.
And so I'm really excited about our newinsights framework that we've been workshopping
(30:36):
with different teams.
It's amazing.
And it it just keeps getting better and better,and I and the response has been overwhelming in
how effective it is, how impactful it is.
So that's I'm I'm also very proud of that.
But you guys are the creators.
You guys are the, I mean, geniuses, guys, thatI get to work with.
Geniuses.
I just barely I'm just trying to keep up.
(30:57):
I'm just trying
to keep up.
It is so fun.
We just hear a problem or notice a pattern or atrend, and then we make something to help
people with it.
It's like, we're in such a cool position rightnow, and huge thanks to everybody that's
following us and supporting us and working withus.
We're so excited about these innovativetraining programs that we're bringing.
(31:18):
Hey, guys.
Seriously, Sign up for the newsletter.
Check it out.
It's free.
You follow Katrina on LinkedIn.
Follow me.
Follow Sarah.
You'll see us.
You know, it's in there, and it's free.
You can expect to see it every Friday morning,and it's really great takeaways.
And thank you guys for all your support.
Thank you for your support of this show.
(31:38):
Thank you for for your support of us onLinkedIn.
And, yeah, anything?
Final words, Katrina?
Sign up for the newsletter atMSLMastery.com/newsletter and share your
feedback with us.
We really take this seriously.
And like I just mentioned, the content that webuild and all this great stuff we put out is
(31:59):
because of what people tell us and what we'rehearing out in the field.
So Yeah.
Please feel free to reach out to me, Tom, orSarah.
We love it, and we really, really appreciateall you guys.
And we hope that we see you in Denver in
2026 for maps.
Next year.
Guys, once again, maps folks, you guys did agreat job.
Crushed it.
John and team, Pedro and Travis and the wholecrew.
(32:24):
Yeah.
You guys are great.
Everybody.
Twenty twenty six, baby.
Denver, we'll see you there.
Yep.
Yep.
Awesome.
Thanks.
Bye, guys.
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