July 15, 2025 • 37 mins
In this episode, Tom Caravela warns job seekers about over negotiation and making unnecessary mistakes in the offer process. Tom debunks common myths and provides essential strategies for Medical Science Liaisons (MSLs) when considering job offers. He stresses the importance of understanding "best and final" offers, knowing one's value, and evaluating compensation ranges. Tom highlights the role of attitude and professionalism in negotiations, warning against aggressive tactics. He also emphasizes the importance of selecting the right mentors and asking essential questions during discussions. The episode concludes with key takeaways on balancing negotiation tactics with long-term career goals and making a positive impression.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Hey, guys.
Welcome to the podcast.
I am coming to you with a very special soloepisode.
This is a really, really super important topicthat I needed to bring to you guys, like, as
soon as possible.
I'm gonna get into the details of why this iskind of an emergency podcast.
The title of this episode is over negotiation,how to botch a job offer.
(00:28):
And it's important.
So definitely be prepared to take notes.
If you're driving or if you're in the gym, youmay wanna listen to this another time and get
out a notebook because this is gonna be reallyimportant stuff that you don't wanna miss
because you don't wanna botch your next joboffer.
Before we get started, this episode issponsored by Fierce Pharma Week, which is an
(00:54):
amazing conference coming up September 8.
It's gonna be here before you know it.
It's September in Philadelphia.
This used to be Mass East.
It is still a medical affairs conference, butit's actually a premier event that brings
together cross functional teams includingpharma marketing, PR and communications,
(01:17):
medical affairs, of course, and then businessdevelopment and licensing all under one
umbrella.
So it's at the Convention Center, so it's it'sa bigger conference.
I'll be there.
I'm looking forward to seeing you guys.
If you use the code m s l t a l k, MSL talk nospace.
(01:38):
At registration, you get 25% off.
So go to fierce pharma week.
Just go to Google and type in fierce pharmaweek.
You'll see it come it'll come up.
Go to register, put in that MSL talk code,you'll get 25% off.
So let me share a story with you guys.
(01:58):
As you know, my job is I'm recruiter by day.
That's I'm not just a podcaster.
I am an MSL medical affairs executive searchrecruiter.
Had somebody come to us recently that awesome,awesome let's let's say the guy's name is John
for argument's sake.
(02:18):
Awesome dude.
John's great.
Really was excited about this opportunity foran MSL position with one of our clients.
Goes through the entire interview process.
Loves it.
Everything's great.
Interviewed great.
Awesome presentation.
Company let's fast forward.
Company makes him an offer, and it's, like, asignificant, significant offer.
(02:43):
The base salary, just to kinda give you guyssome context, one of the highest base salaries
that we've ever gotten for an MSL in twentyyears.
That's how high the salary was.
Okay?
So turns out that he declined the job.
He when I tell you absolutely wanted everythingabout this, he loved the opportunity, loved the
(03:13):
company, the salary was everything he couldhave possibly wanted.
But what happened was towards right after hegot the offer, he told us, this is great.
I plan to accept.
I just wanna run it past you know, I have somementors and some family members that are in in
the in the industry.
I just wanna run it past them.
(03:34):
The sticking point in this situation was he hadsome long term incentive comp, like, in like,
that was vesting, like, within a year.
It was a long time out.
The problem is whoever he was getting advicefrom was trying to tell him to negotiate and
(03:58):
get some kind of sign on bonus and get moremoney.
And they wouldn't do it.
They just wouldn't do it.
That's not that's not what they do.
Not all companies are gonna do that.
They just they weren't gonna do it.
And he tried to hold out.
He tried to hold out.
He tried to hold out.
And I actually think that part of me thinksthat he was gonna say no to think that once he
(04:19):
said no, they were gonna turn around and kinda,like, you know, fight for him and give him some
kinda, like, crazy money.
And they called this bluff, and it didn't itdidn't work out.
Now here's the problem.
The problem is the guy wanted the job in theworst way.
So he called me the next day and he said, Imade a mistake.
(04:43):
I should have never said no.
I shouldn't have done that.
So how how do we fix this?
And at that point I was like, I don't know ifwe can.
Like you don't just tell a company no and thenexpect that they're gonna be able to fix it or
I'm gonna be able to fix it.
So the only advice I gave him was just reachout to literally, like, the hiring manager and
(05:06):
just say, hey.
Look.
I just wanna let you know.
I I made a mistake and and whatever.
And so long story short, long story longer, I'mgetting on with this.
It didn't happen.
The guy actually literally talked himself outof the job that he wanted, or he let someone
(05:28):
else talk him out of the job that he wanted.
He wanted the job.
He got everything.
He got way more than he asked for.
But for whatever reason, he wanted to hold outand negotiate for something that was a non
negotiable.
It wasn't even something that could have beennegotiable.
(05:51):
And the reason it fell apart was becausesomeone else was giving him advice.
He didn't know any better and he took it.
And I feel really bad because he's an awesome,awesome dude.
I really like this guy.
He's gonna be fine.
He's he's, you know, he's probably finewherever he is, but if he decides that he wants
to keep looking, you know, he'll find anotherjob, but he'll learn from the experience.
(06:13):
The reason I'm doing this podcast is not justbecause of that story.
It's because I feel like every week, it's adifferent story of someone who's a job seeker
that's shooting themselves in the foot becausethey're taking bad advice or they're not
(06:35):
getting any good advice at all and they'retrying to do things on their own and they think
that they're taking the right approach.
So I am gonna go through some different reallyimportant items that I want you guys to take
note of so that you can be prepared the nexttime you have to negotiate an offer.
(06:55):
Or if you're in the middle of a job search andyou're gonna be you know, or you're in the
process of negotiating right now.
So here's here's number one.
And I'm I kinda put these this in order, butit's kind of also in no specific order.
And I'll I'm gonna start with a true falsequestion.
(07:19):
Always negotiate an initial job offer.
True or false?
I know you guys hear this all the time.
This is something that's very commonplace.
Do you always negotiate the initial offer?
Yes or no?
(07:40):
I'm gonna say false and no.
The reason I'm saying that is because you don'talways have to negotiate.
Statistically, statistics show that those thatnegotiate initial offers are eventually given
(08:04):
higher salaries.
So conventional wisdom is going to tell youpercentage wise, you should consider or try to
negotiate on the initial offer, even if it'sjust to say, is there any room to negotiate the
base salary or the whatever?
(08:25):
Just very, simple question.
I don't think that's bad advice unless here'swhy the answer is false and here's why it's a
no.
Because there are certain situations wherecompanies will bring to you their best and
final offer as the first offer.
(08:46):
Not everybody comes in with an initial offerand expects to negotiate from there.
Some people kind of think that that's the wayit always happens.
It doesn't always happen that way.
How do you know when it that is the case andwhen it's not the case?
Well, you have to ask.
You have to ask whether if you're working witha recruiter like myself, definitely ask that
(09:09):
recruiter that's representing you.
When I get the offer, what do I expect?
Is this the best and final?
Do you recommend that I negotiate?
They should be able to tell you that.
Now there may not be a third party recruiterlike me that you're working with.
So in that case, I would confide in whoever youhave the closest relationship with within the
(09:31):
company, whether it's a colleague, whether it'sHR, whether it's the hiring manager.
Just say, I'm I just I want you to know I'mthrilled about this offer.
I understand an offer is coming.
I'm thrilled about this offer, and I'm justcurious.
How does your company normally present offers?
Meaning, is it like a best and final situation?
(09:52):
Do you feel like sometimes there's there's someroom left in the offer?
I just wanna know so that I can be prepared forhow I evaluate and read through in the offer.
And sometimes they'll they'll be totallyupfront.
Most times, they'll probably just tell you.
Sometimes they they may not.
And and it really depends on who you're talkingto and what your relationship is.
(10:12):
The whole point of the matter is you should tryto get those details.
Now let's just say you're not sure but you feellike you need to negotiate.
You feel like you need to ask.
Again, the percentage, by the way, thepercentage of those that are awarded higher
salaries when negotiating an initial offer,it's significant.
(10:35):
It's like 84%.
That's why I'm not telling you not to do it.
I'm telling you to do it.
I'm asking you to be careful when you do it.
There's two things.
Number one, find out if see if you can find outif that's if it's a best and final or not.
And number two, when you ask, it's not just youasking.
(10:58):
It's how you ask.
So, like, a lot of people play this the wrongway.
What I'm telling you to do is really firstfirst and foremost, go in with an attitude of
gratitude.
Like, be very, very gracious and thankful whenyou get an offer.
(11:19):
I talk about this all the time.
I talk about it in my book.
You definitely wanna make sure that theapproach is tactful and it's and it's gracious.
When you ask, you simply like, it it has to besomething along the lines of, I'm I'm I can't
thank you enough.
I'm so excited about this offer.
(11:41):
Want it I just really want it.
I just I have to ask, you know, is there anyroom, you know, on the base salary?
Is there any room to negotiate this?
Be really, really careful in number one,balking at an offer and coming off like you're
(12:03):
not grateful, or asking as if you deserve it orhave a right to it because they they may they
may have just given you a best and final, andthey may not be able to do anything.
You just have to be careful.
That's a really important so that's number one,and it's a really important way to start this
(12:25):
process because a lot of people just makeassumptions, they go in with the wrong
approach, and it upsets people.
The second thing that's really important is seeif you can get the range for the position.
Try to to find out what the company range isfor the position.
(12:47):
Understand that companies don't have an opencheckbook.
It's not an open thing.
You can't just say a number and expect thatthey're gonna give you that number.
It just doesn't work that way.
And the reason I mentioned it, guys, I have alot of people that, like, that's the way they
approach this.
Like, as if, well, I'm just gonna ask for this.
I had it happen recently.
(13:08):
I had a guy throw out a crazy number.
He's like, well, you don't know until you ask.
I'm like, no, dude.
Like, you see, I I I I can't walk that back.
You gave them a number so far outside theirrange that now they don't think they can afford
you, they don't wanna move forward in theprocess.
You're talking yourself that's why that's whythe the title of this episode is how to botch.
(13:32):
You're botching the whole process by by takingthe wrong approach.
So, guys, the way you find out a range in theprocess is you have to ask.
And I don't think you should ask on the firstinterview.
I'm not saying that you should do that.
If you have a third party recruiter that you'reworking with, a headhunter, you certainly can
(13:52):
get that information or hopefully you can getthat information from that person.
If you can't get the information from thatperson or you don't have a recruiter like that,
then you want to ask somebody typically on theHR side of the equation, talent acquisition, so
that you could see if they can identify or atleast share with you a range.
The other thing is keep in mind that there arepay transparency laws right now that, that show
(14:19):
compensation on job postings.
So you may be able to actually see it withouteven asking.
The whole point of the matter is see if youcould try to find out what the range is so that
you are aware in the search on how you're gonnaposition yourself.
Keep in mind, when a company posts a range on ajob description, it's really typically never
(14:44):
the low, and it's typically never the high.
So I wouldn't say if they have a range, andlet's just say for argument's sake, the range
is, like, 250,000.
Just because it says that is really slim chanceyou're getting to that number.
Again, this is something that should eventuallycome up in the conversation during the
interview process.
I just wouldn't talk about it on the firstinterview.
(15:05):
I would wait until you get a little bit furtherin the process, but you should definitely try
to know this.
The third thing, and this is really, reallysuper important and it could solve save a lot
of time, solve a lot of problems for you, isyou have to know your numbers.
Make sure you know what are you currentlyearning.
(15:28):
What's your current base salary?
What was your bonus last year?
What long term incentives do you get, if any?
If you do get long term incentives, what is thevesting schedule?
How much do you currently have vested?
When is the next vest going to happen?
You wanna figure out is there anything thatyou're quote unquote walking away from?
(15:50):
So if you're going to take another position andleave your company, are you walking away from a
certain amount of money?
Guys, a lot of people don't know their numbers.
I just had this happen two days ago.
Literally, two days ago.
We had somebody that was drastically off ontheir projection.
(16:12):
Hey.
Good for them.
They were making a lot more money than theythought, but it it put literally put a stop in
the entire interview process for that person,for that client.
Now here's the bad news.
The bad news is time was already invested inthat candidate.
And so the candidate wasted time, the clientwasted time.
It could have all been avoided if that personhad known their numbers ahead of time.
(16:37):
It's really, really easy to do.
There's pay stubs.
There's you you can go back and look at thehistory of it, guys, especially in this day and
age.
We're in this electronic era where everythingis online.
You can just pull all this stuff up or you cango back to offer letters or whatever else to
get the language that you need.
This is mandatory when you're in searchprocess.
(16:59):
Know your numbers.
And earlier the better because you want to knowwhether or not that this position that you're
considering align with your numbers.
So again, as I said before, you want to try tounderstand what the salary range and what the
compensation range is for the company and forthat position, and you want to know your
(17:23):
numbers to make sure that they're aligned.
And this is gonna save a lot of aggravation.
It's gonna make you a lot more organized andcome across as more organized, and it's gonna
make a more seamless process for everyoneinvolved.
Understand this.
This is number four, and I hope you guys aretaking notes because this is really important
stuff.
(17:45):
When you're evaluating an offer.
So when offer comes in and you're consideringit, just understand, it's never apples to
apples.
And what that means is if you are currentlyworking and you're an MSL and you're making I'm
(18:07):
just gonna throw numbers out.
You're making a $200,000 base salary with a 20%bonus, a company car, and you may or may not
get LTI.
And then you're interviewing at another companyand the offer comes in, the base salary, the
bonus, the car, the long term incentive, it maynot line up perfectly.
(18:31):
It may not be the perfect next like the perfectsituation where everything is higher in on on
at the new company.
It there may be certain things that you'regetting now that just may not be able to be
replaced.
But there's something else at the companywhether it's stability, whether it's the
(18:56):
science, whether it's the culture, whether it'sthe salary, whether it's the type of car,
whether it's the benefits, the PTO, the size ofterritory, the it could there's so many
different things.
And because there are so many different things,it could never be apples to apples.
(19:17):
One of the challenges and one of the problemsand think the things I see with job seekers is
they want everything to line up perfectly.
And it's just never the case.
So here's the thing, decide what is mostimportant for you.
What can you live with?
What can you not live with?
Hey, listen.
(19:37):
I'm not telling you that you absolutely have tofind a way to accept an offer that you
ultimately don't want.
Do the pros and cons and look at it and say,okay.
I'm gonna listen to Tom.
Tom said it's never apples to apples.
That being said, when I look at this, it'sapples to oranges.
Is the are the oranges better than my apples ormore enticing than my apples?
(20:02):
Is it do I wanna be with the oranges or do Iwanna stay with the apples?
Or do I wanna find pears?
Like, where do you ultimately see yourself?
Where are you gonna be comfortable?
It's not always about money.
It's not always about dollars and cents.
There's so many other things.
So make sure that you learn, not learn, butfigure out what your priorities are, what you
(20:27):
absolutely want to see happen in that nextrole, and give yourself you know, try not to
make it so perfect like it's gotta be this.
It's gonna be a give and take.
It's not just gonna be an absolute perfect nextscenario.
So keep that in mind.
(20:48):
Number five.
This is a big one.
I alluded to this before in the first storythat I told you guys.
Mentors, be careful who you listen to.
Guys, I have to tell you, like, this has becomea real problem because there are people out
there that are claiming to be experts, coaches,mentors and they don't always have the best
(21:17):
advice.
And again, I I don't I I don't want tocategorically tell you don't listen to anyone,
but what I do want to tell you is be carefulwho that is.
Make sure that you're listening to the rightpeople.
Make sure that they understand your situation,that they know what your priorities are, that
they have your best interest in mind.
(21:38):
Yeah.
I'm just I can't tell you how many times latelywithin the last like two or three years where
there's a situation, you have a candidate, theyinterview just like the first story that I told
you.
They interview, they're really excited, theywant the job, and then all of a sudden somebody
gets in their ear.
Well, you really should consider this.
(22:00):
You really should ask about that.
Do you realize that you're walking away fromthis?
You don't have to do that.
You could demand and it's like you can't youcan't always demand things in a a negotiation
because someone told you that you should.
They don't know the situation.
There's this internal equity piece that existswithin every company.
(22:25):
And the only people know about what's includedin that internal equity piece, this meaning the
stake that that employee has in the company,not just compensation wise, but everything
else, where they sit in the company and wheretheir value is and how they're valued is the
company itself.
So now you deserve your value.
Right?
There's I'm not telling you you shouldn't getyour piece but you can't let somebody else
(22:52):
determine that when they don't know the wholestory.
Be careful who you listen to, be sure that theyhave your best interest at heart and then the
other thing that's really really important isto ask a lot of questions.
If someone's telling you something and you'renot sure about it or if if there's this this
this this piece of advice, double check it,triple check it before you go and make a
(23:17):
mistake, especially if it's to if it's to youknow, negotiate and ask for a whole bunch more
money or put put something put someone out oror put something off or, like, you just want to
be really careful.
And I just I don't wanna see you guys wind uplike my buddy that made the mistake and
(23:39):
listened to the wrong person.
So be careful with quote unquote mentors.
Number six is equally as important as all therest of this stuff and it's attitude.
Attitudes everything guys.
I have seen people and I have to be carefulabout the way they say this because I don't
(24:02):
want to hurt anybody's feelings and I'm nottalking about specific, I'm not sharing names,
but I've seen situations where people turn intomonsters.
You know, one of one of like my favoriteexpressions that I tell people, new people when
I'm training them, when they're recruiters andI'm training them, is that every candidate is
(24:22):
your best friend until you present them with anoffer.
And then all of a sudden it's like, well, waita second.
I need this and I need that and I need this.
Not everybody but it's common.
It's common.
It's like this people just they they turn intomonster is a strong word but sometimes they
(24:46):
become self righteous because they're they gointo this negotiation mode.
And the attitude that's being portrayed iswhat's harmful.
Very often when an offer is rescinded, it'sbecause of the person's attitude.
(25:08):
It's because of their approach.
It's because they freaked someone out.
The hiring manager, the HR director, they upsetsomeone because of their attitude.
I mentioned before how important it is to havean attitude of gratitude.
You need to be gracious the entire time.
(25:30):
You have to walk on eggshells.
You have to be very delicate.
You can't be forceful.
You can't be arrogant.
You also need to be responsive.
Don't disappear.
I had somebody recently who told me and thisthis this is another thing that's really
important.
Responsiveness goes with the right attitude.
(25:51):
I had someone tell me recently that they weregiven an offer deadline for a position and they
were waiting on another offer.
So they never got back to the to the companythat gave them the offer deadline.
They didn't ask for another day, they didn'tsay, hey, would it be okay if I had an
extension?
They just never got back to that person or thatcompany.
(26:15):
I don't think that's that's just not the rightway to do it.
You you you really like, again, if you're if ifyou if you're show if you wanna show someone
that you have the professionalism that it takesto be successful, not just in an MSL role, in
any role, you have to lead withprofessionalism, with executive presence, with
(26:44):
the proper attitude, the proper gratitude.
Like, you you you have to exemplify someonethat is capable of conducting successful
business with someone.
And you may think I'm I'm I'm overstating thisbut people pick up on the energy that you put
(27:09):
off when you're negotiating.
And if it's negative energy and you come off asyou're like you're entitled, it's gonna turn
people off.
If you come off with positive energy, like youhave a genuine level of excitement and
enthusiasm and you're just wanting to see ifyou can get the best possible offer and that's
(27:31):
why you're negotiating, that's a differentattitude altogether.
But the point of the matter is and guys, Iwanna stress this.
Companies can and often do rescind offers.
They take them away.
They say, no.
We changed our mind.
Sorry.
We're no longer interested.
We're not we're no longer moving forward withinthe process.
(27:54):
There's nothing illegal about it.
They can change their mind.
They can absolutely change their mind.
So I'm giving you all of this information andI'm sharing all of this advice because I don't
want you because it's never intentional.
Guys, this is the stuff I'm talking about thatpeople are doing, it's never intentional.
They're not trying to shoot themselves in thefoot, not trying to botch the the offer
(28:18):
process.
They're just this is what like they don't knowany better.
So attitude, like just be mindful of yourapproach is the most important thing.
Number seven.
There's only two more.
So I'm almost done here.
I don't wanna take up too much time here.
Number seven is to ask the right questionsalong the way.
(28:44):
I alluded to this before.
This is, like, really super important.
You wanna start the process by asking goodquestions.
Questions about the company, questions aboutthe culture, questions about the future.
And you also, during the course of the of theinterview, you wanna find out about the
(29:06):
package.
What it is that they're gonna be offering?
What are they what is again, what's the thecompensation range?
What are the you know, what's the bonuspotential?
Ultimately, what is the what is the benefitspackage look like?
At some point in time, they're gonna give youthat information.
It's okay to ask.
I wouldn't ask all this stuff up front like Isaid but at some point in time you're gonna
(29:29):
want to ask those questions.
People say to me like, well what questionsshould I ask?
And it's like I'm gonna throw that back at you.
What's most important to you?
Your questions have to be based on what isimportant to you.
What are you what are your priorities?
Why are you leaving your current job, and whydo you wanna go to that job?
(29:50):
What are you looking for?
Some people wanna switch jobs strictly becauseof comp, and that's okay.
But if that's your main priority, then you needto know the numbers.
You need to know your numbers.
You need to know their numbers to be able todetermine whether or not it's gonna even work
out at the end.
Otherwise, you're wasting everybody's time.
(30:13):
If it's benefits, you may have a situation witha child or a family member that needs certain
care.
If that's front and center, then you bettermake sure that you're getting that benefits
package up front so you could see whether ornot they have coverage that you need.
That happens a lot.
And sometimes people wait until the very end.
(30:34):
It's like, I can't take this job because theycan't care for my son.
It's like, well, you knew that your son neededspecial care.
Why didn't you ask for the benefits booklet inthe beginning?
Or bring this to the like, it's okay to to askthese questions early, often, and and and
throughout the process.
Not not compensation questions.
(30:55):
You don't wanna ask those early like I saidbefore.
But just if it's if it's like benefits, if it'sculture, if it's if it's future, there's
there's other things that you can ask along theway, and you can ask early.
It's just you don't want it's very tacky to addto start talking about compensation unless they
bring it up early in the process.
(31:16):
Very, very important.
Know what you want.
Know what your priorities are.
What's important to you?
And and can really construct the questions sothat you can you can get the answer to those to
those questions and make a a determinationalong the way.
Number eight, first impression.
(31:40):
Understand that what the way you negotiate anoffer is the first impression that you're gonna
be giving your new employer.
And you might be like, well, Tom, it's notreally a first impression because I've I if I'm
(32:01):
getting an offer, I would have alreadyinterviewed.
So they already have a first impression.
Yes and no.
Like, yeah, that's a first impression, but thisis the impression that they're gonna be given
when you enter into the company.
This is how you're starting.
The first impression of your career at thatcompany because you're gonna be dealing with a
(32:26):
lot of other people like the people incompensation and HR and talent acquisition and
HR business partner and depending on the sizeof the company, it'll depend on who those
people are.
But the whole point of the matter is this is animpression.
Are you really gonna blow it and give the wrongimpression to your new employer, your new boss
(32:49):
over $5,000?
Think think about that before you push theenvelope because that's a lot of times you push
it I see people push the envelope for somethingthat's not even worth pushing the envelope for
(33:10):
at the end of the day.
It's just it's not worth it.
It's not worth starting off on the wrong footor having the hiring manager second guess you
or having the hiring manager say, well, I'mstill gonna hire that person, but I'm gonna put
an asterisk.
I'm still gonna hire that person, but I'm gonnakeep an eye on it because I don't like the way
(33:34):
that negotiation went down.
One of the reasons I see I see offers getrescinded is because the negotiation was
handled so poorly that they'll say to me, Tom,we saw a side of this person that made us
uncomfortable in moving we don't want them onour team.
(33:58):
We we are are no longer interested in havingthat person join us because of the way they
handled the negotiation.
That's why offers are rescinded.
That's why I'm having this conversation withyou.
That's why I'm sharing these details with youbecause I don't want that to happen to you.
I don't want you to make a mistake by showing aside of yourself that you just shouldn't.
(34:23):
And look, we all want we all want it's like I Ialways equate this to buying a house.
If you're buying a house, you never wanna paythe the highest price.
You wanna get it you wanna know that younegotiated a good deal.
It's the same thing when you're selling ahouse.
(34:43):
You wanna get the best number that you possiblycan.
But at the same time, you don't wanna lose outon the house if you love it.
If you absolutely love it, you don't want tolose out on that house over $5,000 or you don't
want to not be able to sell that house and haveit sit for longer over $5,000.
(35:04):
So just realize that you have to take a stepback and decide, do I really want this?
Is it aligned with my my goals, what I valuemost, what's important to me, what I wanna see
happen in the future, and what the long termlooks like.
(35:25):
That's the other thing is am I just gonna sayyes to something because it's a quick short
term fix, or is this a place where I can seemyself for a long time?
And if it's a place that you can see yourselffor a long time, it's even more reason for you
not to screw it up and not to chance it andrisk it.
(35:49):
So I'm gonna leave you with and, guys, I I Ihope I didn't come across as you know, I don't
come across the wrong way.
Like, wow.
Tom was he was really really sticking it to us.
No.
I I look, I'm looking out for you guys.
I've just I've seen way too many mistakeshappen.
I've seen way too many people overplay theirhand.
(36:11):
You know what happens in cards when youoverplay your hand?
You lose.
I don't want you guys to lose especially whenyou really ultimately want the job.
So I hope this was helpful.
Again, know, if you're if if you were listeningto this and you were driving, I would go back
and just take notes or listen to this againanother time when you're negotiating or when
(36:31):
you're at the end of a job offer or when you'rein the middle of a job offer process,
obviously, it would make sense because a lot ofthis has to happen during the process.
And then be better prepared.
This, guys, is advice that, like, I would givethis to my son.
I'd give it to my daughter.
I'd give it to, like and I love all of youguys.
(36:53):
I want all of you guys to win.
I want you to succeed.
And I'm giving you this advice because I don'twanna see you upset about the fact that you
said something that you shouldn't have said oryou did something you shouldn't have have done.
So I hope this was helpful.
If you guys got a lot out of it, as always,please share it with others.
(37:13):
I appreciate all of your support, and, hopethis was helpful.
I'll see you on the next one.
Hey, guys.
Welcome to the podcast.
I am coming to you with a very special soloepisode.
This is a really, really super important topicthat I needed to bring to you guys, like, as
soon as possible.
I'm gonna get into the details of why this iskind of an emergency podcast.
The title of this episode is over negotiation,how to botch a job offer.
(00:28):
And it's important.
So definitely be prepared to take notes.
If you're driving or if you're in the gym, youmay wanna listen to this another time and get
out a notebook because this is gonna be reallyimportant stuff that you don't wanna miss
because you don't wanna botch your next joboffer.
Before we get started, this episode issponsored by Fierce Pharma Week, which is an
(00:54):
amazing conference coming up September 8.
It's gonna be here before you know it.
It's September in Philadelphia.
This used to be Mass East.
It is still a medical affairs conference, butit's actually a premier event that brings
together cross functional teams includingpharma marketing, PR and communications,
(01:17):
medical affairs, of course, and then businessdevelopment and licensing all under one
umbrella.
So it's at the Convention Center, so it's it'sa bigger conference.
I'll be there.
I'm looking forward to seeing you guys.
If you use the code m s l t a l k, MSL talk nospace.
(01:38):
At registration, you get 25% off.
So go to fierce pharma week.
Just go to Google and type in fierce pharmaweek.
You'll see it come it'll come up.
Go to register, put in that MSL talk code,you'll get 25% off.
So let me share a story with you guys.
(01:58):
As you know, my job is I'm recruiter by day.
That's I'm not just a podcaster.
I am an MSL medical affairs executive searchrecruiter.
Had somebody come to us recently that awesome,awesome let's let's say the guy's name is John
for argument's sake.
(02:18):
Awesome dude.
John's great.
Really was excited about this opportunity foran MSL position with one of our clients.
Goes through the entire interview process.
Loves it.
Everything's great.
Interviewed great.
Awesome presentation.
Company let's fast forward.
Company makes him an offer, and it's, like, asignificant, significant offer.
(02:43):
The base salary, just to kinda give you guyssome context, one of the highest base salaries
that we've ever gotten for an MSL in twentyyears.
That's how high the salary was.
Okay?
So turns out that he declined the job.
He when I tell you absolutely wanted everythingabout this, he loved the opportunity, loved the
(03:13):
company, the salary was everything he couldhave possibly wanted.
But what happened was towards right after hegot the offer, he told us, this is great.
I plan to accept.
I just wanna run it past you know, I have somementors and some family members that are in in
the in the industry.
I just wanna run it past them.
(03:34):
The sticking point in this situation was he hadsome long term incentive comp, like, in like,
that was vesting, like, within a year.
It was a long time out.
The problem is whoever he was getting advicefrom was trying to tell him to negotiate and
(03:58):
get some kind of sign on bonus and get moremoney.
And they wouldn't do it.
They just wouldn't do it.
That's not that's not what they do.
Not all companies are gonna do that.
They just they weren't gonna do it.
And he tried to hold out.
He tried to hold out.
He tried to hold out.
And I actually think that part of me thinksthat he was gonna say no to think that once he
(04:19):
said no, they were gonna turn around and kinda,like, you know, fight for him and give him some
kinda, like, crazy money.
And they called this bluff, and it didn't itdidn't work out.
Now here's the problem.
The problem is the guy wanted the job in theworst way.
So he called me the next day and he said, Imade a mistake.
(04:43):
I should have never said no.
I shouldn't have done that.
So how how do we fix this?
And at that point I was like, I don't know ifwe can.
Like you don't just tell a company no and thenexpect that they're gonna be able to fix it or
I'm gonna be able to fix it.
So the only advice I gave him was just reachout to literally, like, the hiring manager and
(05:06):
just say, hey.
Look.
I just wanna let you know.
I I made a mistake and and whatever.
And so long story short, long story longer, I'mgetting on with this.
It didn't happen.
The guy actually literally talked himself outof the job that he wanted, or he let someone
(05:28):
else talk him out of the job that he wanted.
He wanted the job.
He got everything.
He got way more than he asked for.
But for whatever reason, he wanted to hold outand negotiate for something that was a non
negotiable.
It wasn't even something that could have beennegotiable.
(05:51):
And the reason it fell apart was becausesomeone else was giving him advice.
He didn't know any better and he took it.
And I feel really bad because he's an awesome,awesome dude.
I really like this guy.
He's gonna be fine.
He's he's, you know, he's probably finewherever he is, but if he decides that he wants
to keep looking, you know, he'll find anotherjob, but he'll learn from the experience.
(06:13):
The reason I'm doing this podcast is not justbecause of that story.
It's because I feel like every week, it's adifferent story of someone who's a job seeker
that's shooting themselves in the foot becausethey're taking bad advice or they're not
(06:35):
getting any good advice at all and they'retrying to do things on their own and they think
that they're taking the right approach.
So I am gonna go through some different reallyimportant items that I want you guys to take
note of so that you can be prepared the nexttime you have to negotiate an offer.
(06:55):
Or if you're in the middle of a job search andyou're gonna be you know, or you're in the
process of negotiating right now.
So here's here's number one.
And I'm I kinda put these this in order, butit's kind of also in no specific order.
And I'll I'm gonna start with a true falsequestion.
(07:19):
Always negotiate an initial job offer.
True or false?
I know you guys hear this all the time.
This is something that's very commonplace.
Do you always negotiate the initial offer?
Yes or no?
(07:40):
I'm gonna say false and no.
The reason I'm saying that is because you don'talways have to negotiate.
Statistically, statistics show that those thatnegotiate initial offers are eventually given
(08:04):
higher salaries.
So conventional wisdom is going to tell youpercentage wise, you should consider or try to
negotiate on the initial offer, even if it'sjust to say, is there any room to negotiate the
base salary or the whatever?
(08:25):
Just very, simple question.
I don't think that's bad advice unless here'swhy the answer is false and here's why it's a
no.
Because there are certain situations wherecompanies will bring to you their best and
final offer as the first offer.
(08:46):
Not everybody comes in with an initial offerand expects to negotiate from there.
Some people kind of think that that's the wayit always happens.
It doesn't always happen that way.
How do you know when it that is the case andwhen it's not the case?
Well, you have to ask.
You have to ask whether if you're working witha recruiter like myself, definitely ask that
(09:09):
recruiter that's representing you.
When I get the offer, what do I expect?
Is this the best and final?
Do you recommend that I negotiate?
They should be able to tell you that.
Now there may not be a third party recruiterlike me that you're working with.
So in that case, I would confide in whoever youhave the closest relationship with within the
(09:31):
company, whether it's a colleague, whether it'sHR, whether it's the hiring manager.
Just say, I'm I just I want you to know I'mthrilled about this offer.
I understand an offer is coming.
I'm thrilled about this offer, and I'm justcurious.
How does your company normally present offers?
Meaning, is it like a best and final situation?
(09:52):
Do you feel like sometimes there's there's someroom left in the offer?
I just wanna know so that I can be prepared forhow I evaluate and read through in the offer.
And sometimes they'll they'll be totallyupfront.
Most times, they'll probably just tell you.
Sometimes they they may not.
And and it really depends on who you're talkingto and what your relationship is.
(10:12):
The whole point of the matter is you should tryto get those details.
Now let's just say you're not sure but you feellike you need to negotiate.
You feel like you need to ask.
Again, the percentage, by the way, thepercentage of those that are awarded higher
salaries when negotiating an initial offer,it's significant.
(10:35):
It's like 84%.
That's why I'm not telling you not to do it.
I'm telling you to do it.
I'm asking you to be careful when you do it.
There's two things.
Number one, find out if see if you can find outif that's if it's a best and final or not.
And number two, when you ask, it's not just youasking.
(10:58):
It's how you ask.
So, like, a lot of people play this the wrongway.
What I'm telling you to do is really firstfirst and foremost, go in with an attitude of
gratitude.
Like, be very, very gracious and thankful whenyou get an offer.
(11:19):
I talk about this all the time.
I talk about it in my book.
You definitely wanna make sure that theapproach is tactful and it's and it's gracious.
When you ask, you simply like, it it has to besomething along the lines of, I'm I'm I can't
thank you enough.
I'm so excited about this offer.
(11:41):
Want it I just really want it.
I just I have to ask, you know, is there anyroom, you know, on the base salary?
Is there any room to negotiate this?
Be really, really careful in number one,balking at an offer and coming off like you're
(12:03):
not grateful, or asking as if you deserve it orhave a right to it because they they may they
may have just given you a best and final, andthey may not be able to do anything.
You just have to be careful.
That's a really important so that's number one,and it's a really important way to start this
(12:25):
process because a lot of people just makeassumptions, they go in with the wrong
approach, and it upsets people.
The second thing that's really important is seeif you can get the range for the position.
Try to to find out what the company range isfor the position.
(12:47):
Understand that companies don't have an opencheckbook.
It's not an open thing.
You can't just say a number and expect thatthey're gonna give you that number.
It just doesn't work that way.
And the reason I mentioned it, guys, I have alot of people that, like, that's the way they
approach this.
Like, as if, well, I'm just gonna ask for this.
I had it happen recently.
(13:08):
I had a guy throw out a crazy number.
He's like, well, you don't know until you ask.
I'm like, no, dude.
Like, you see, I I I I can't walk that back.
You gave them a number so far outside theirrange that now they don't think they can afford
you, they don't wanna move forward in theprocess.
You're talking yourself that's why that's whythe the title of this episode is how to botch.
(13:32):
You're botching the whole process by by takingthe wrong approach.
So, guys, the way you find out a range in theprocess is you have to ask.
And I don't think you should ask on the firstinterview.
I'm not saying that you should do that.
If you have a third party recruiter that you'reworking with, a headhunter, you certainly can
(13:52):
get that information or hopefully you can getthat information from that person.
If you can't get the information from thatperson or you don't have a recruiter like that,
then you want to ask somebody typically on theHR side of the equation, talent acquisition, so
that you could see if they can identify or atleast share with you a range.
The other thing is keep in mind that there arepay transparency laws right now that, that show
(14:19):
compensation on job postings.
So you may be able to actually see it withouteven asking.
The whole point of the matter is see if youcould try to find out what the range is so that
you are aware in the search on how you're gonnaposition yourself.
Keep in mind, when a company posts a range on ajob description, it's really typically never
(14:44):
the low, and it's typically never the high.
So I wouldn't say if they have a range, andlet's just say for argument's sake, the range
is, like, 250,000.
Just because it says that is really slim chanceyou're getting to that number.
Again, this is something that should eventuallycome up in the conversation during the
interview process.
I just wouldn't talk about it on the firstinterview.
(15:05):
I would wait until you get a little bit furtherin the process, but you should definitely try
to know this.
The third thing, and this is really, reallysuper important and it could solve save a lot
of time, solve a lot of problems for you, isyou have to know your numbers.
Make sure you know what are you currentlyearning.
(15:28):
What's your current base salary?
What was your bonus last year?
What long term incentives do you get, if any?
If you do get long term incentives, what is thevesting schedule?
How much do you currently have vested?
When is the next vest going to happen?
You wanna figure out is there anything thatyou're quote unquote walking away from?
(15:50):
So if you're going to take another position andleave your company, are you walking away from a
certain amount of money?
Guys, a lot of people don't know their numbers.
I just had this happen two days ago.
Literally, two days ago.
We had somebody that was drastically off ontheir projection.
(16:12):
Hey.
Good for them.
They were making a lot more money than theythought, but it it put literally put a stop in
the entire interview process for that person,for that client.
Now here's the bad news.
The bad news is time was already invested inthat candidate.
And so the candidate wasted time, the clientwasted time.
It could have all been avoided if that personhad known their numbers ahead of time.
(16:37):
It's really, really easy to do.
There's pay stubs.
There's you you can go back and look at thehistory of it, guys, especially in this day and
age.
We're in this electronic era where everythingis online.
You can just pull all this stuff up or you cango back to offer letters or whatever else to
get the language that you need.
This is mandatory when you're in searchprocess.
(16:59):
Know your numbers.
And earlier the better because you want to knowwhether or not that this position that you're
considering align with your numbers.
So again, as I said before, you want to try tounderstand what the salary range and what the
compensation range is for the company and forthat position, and you want to know your
(17:23):
numbers to make sure that they're aligned.
And this is gonna save a lot of aggravation.
It's gonna make you a lot more organized andcome across as more organized, and it's gonna
make a more seamless process for everyoneinvolved.
Understand this.
This is number four, and I hope you guys aretaking notes because this is really important
stuff.
(17:45):
When you're evaluating an offer.
So when offer comes in and you're consideringit, just understand, it's never apples to
apples.
And what that means is if you are currentlyworking and you're an MSL and you're making I'm
(18:07):
just gonna throw numbers out.
You're making a $200,000 base salary with a 20%bonus, a company car, and you may or may not
get LTI.
And then you're interviewing at another companyand the offer comes in, the base salary, the
bonus, the car, the long term incentive, it maynot line up perfectly.
(18:31):
It may not be the perfect next like the perfectsituation where everything is higher in on on
at the new company.
It there may be certain things that you'regetting now that just may not be able to be
replaced.
But there's something else at the companywhether it's stability, whether it's the
(18:56):
science, whether it's the culture, whether it'sthe salary, whether it's the type of car,
whether it's the benefits, the PTO, the size ofterritory, the it could there's so many
different things.
And because there are so many different things,it could never be apples to apples.
(19:17):
One of the challenges and one of the problemsand think the things I see with job seekers is
they want everything to line up perfectly.
And it's just never the case.
So here's the thing, decide what is mostimportant for you.
What can you live with?
What can you not live with?
Hey, listen.
(19:37):
I'm not telling you that you absolutely have tofind a way to accept an offer that you
ultimately don't want.
Do the pros and cons and look at it and say,okay.
I'm gonna listen to Tom.
Tom said it's never apples to apples.
That being said, when I look at this, it'sapples to oranges.
Is the are the oranges better than my apples ormore enticing than my apples?
(20:02):
Is it do I wanna be with the oranges or do Iwanna stay with the apples?
Or do I wanna find pears?
Like, where do you ultimately see yourself?
Where are you gonna be comfortable?
It's not always about money.
It's not always about dollars and cents.
There's so many other things.
So make sure that you learn, not learn, butfigure out what your priorities are, what you
(20:27):
absolutely want to see happen in that nextrole, and give yourself you know, try not to
make it so perfect like it's gotta be this.
It's gonna be a give and take.
It's not just gonna be an absolute perfect nextscenario.
So keep that in mind.
(20:48):
Number five.
This is a big one.
I alluded to this before in the first storythat I told you guys.
Mentors, be careful who you listen to.
Guys, I have to tell you, like, this has becomea real problem because there are people out
there that are claiming to be experts, coaches,mentors and they don't always have the best
(21:17):
advice.
And again, I I don't I I don't want tocategorically tell you don't listen to anyone,
but what I do want to tell you is be carefulwho that is.
Make sure that you're listening to the rightpeople.
Make sure that they understand your situation,that they know what your priorities are, that
they have your best interest in mind.
(21:38):
Yeah.
I'm just I can't tell you how many times latelywithin the last like two or three years where
there's a situation, you have a candidate, theyinterview just like the first story that I told
you.
They interview, they're really excited, theywant the job, and then all of a sudden somebody
gets in their ear.
Well, you really should consider this.
(22:00):
You really should ask about that.
Do you realize that you're walking away fromthis?
You don't have to do that.
You could demand and it's like you can't youcan't always demand things in a a negotiation
because someone told you that you should.
They don't know the situation.
There's this internal equity piece that existswithin every company.
(22:25):
And the only people know about what's includedin that internal equity piece, this meaning the
stake that that employee has in the company,not just compensation wise, but everything
else, where they sit in the company and wheretheir value is and how they're valued is the
company itself.
So now you deserve your value.
Right?
There's I'm not telling you you shouldn't getyour piece but you can't let somebody else
(22:52):
determine that when they don't know the wholestory.
Be careful who you listen to, be sure that theyhave your best interest at heart and then the
other thing that's really really important isto ask a lot of questions.
If someone's telling you something and you'renot sure about it or if if there's this this
this this piece of advice, double check it,triple check it before you go and make a
(23:17):
mistake, especially if it's to if it's to youknow, negotiate and ask for a whole bunch more
money or put put something put someone out oror put something off or, like, you just want to
be really careful.
And I just I don't wanna see you guys wind uplike my buddy that made the mistake and
(23:39):
listened to the wrong person.
So be careful with quote unquote mentors.
Number six is equally as important as all therest of this stuff and it's attitude.
Attitudes everything guys.
I have seen people and I have to be carefulabout the way they say this because I don't
(24:02):
want to hurt anybody's feelings and I'm nottalking about specific, I'm not sharing names,
but I've seen situations where people turn intomonsters.
You know, one of one of like my favoriteexpressions that I tell people, new people when
I'm training them, when they're recruiters andI'm training them, is that every candidate is
(24:22):
your best friend until you present them with anoffer.
And then all of a sudden it's like, well, waita second.
I need this and I need that and I need this.
Not everybody but it's common.
It's common.
It's like this people just they they turn intomonster is a strong word but sometimes they
(24:46):
become self righteous because they're they gointo this negotiation mode.
And the attitude that's being portrayed iswhat's harmful.
Very often when an offer is rescinded, it'sbecause of the person's attitude.
(25:08):
It's because of their approach.
It's because they freaked someone out.
The hiring manager, the HR director, they upsetsomeone because of their attitude.
I mentioned before how important it is to havean attitude of gratitude.
You need to be gracious the entire time.
(25:30):
You have to walk on eggshells.
You have to be very delicate.
You can't be forceful.
You can't be arrogant.
You also need to be responsive.
Don't disappear.
I had somebody recently who told me and thisthis this is another thing that's really
important.
Responsiveness goes with the right attitude.
(25:51):
I had someone tell me recently that they weregiven an offer deadline for a position and they
were waiting on another offer.
So they never got back to the to the companythat gave them the offer deadline.
They didn't ask for another day, they didn'tsay, hey, would it be okay if I had an
extension?
They just never got back to that person or thatcompany.
(26:15):
I don't think that's that's just not the rightway to do it.
You you you really like, again, if you're if ifyou if you're show if you wanna show someone
that you have the professionalism that it takesto be successful, not just in an MSL role, in
any role, you have to lead withprofessionalism, with executive presence, with
(26:44):
the proper attitude, the proper gratitude.
Like, you you you have to exemplify someonethat is capable of conducting successful
business with someone.
And you may think I'm I'm I'm overstating thisbut people pick up on the energy that you put
(27:09):
off when you're negotiating.
And if it's negative energy and you come off asyou're like you're entitled, it's gonna turn
people off.
If you come off with positive energy, like youhave a genuine level of excitement and
enthusiasm and you're just wanting to see ifyou can get the best possible offer and that's
(27:31):
why you're negotiating, that's a differentattitude altogether.
But the point of the matter is and guys, Iwanna stress this.
Companies can and often do rescind offers.
They take them away.
They say, no.
We changed our mind.
Sorry.
We're no longer interested.
We're not we're no longer moving forward withinthe process.
(27:54):
There's nothing illegal about it.
They can change their mind.
They can absolutely change their mind.
So I'm giving you all of this information andI'm sharing all of this advice because I don't
want you because it's never intentional.
Guys, this is the stuff I'm talking about thatpeople are doing, it's never intentional.
They're not trying to shoot themselves in thefoot, not trying to botch the the offer
(28:18):
process.
They're just this is what like they don't knowany better.
So attitude, like just be mindful of yourapproach is the most important thing.
Number seven.
There's only two more.
So I'm almost done here.
I don't wanna take up too much time here.
Number seven is to ask the right questionsalong the way.
(28:44):
I alluded to this before.
This is, like, really super important.
You wanna start the process by asking goodquestions.
Questions about the company, questions aboutthe culture, questions about the future.
And you also, during the course of the of theinterview, you wanna find out about the
(29:06):
package.
What it is that they're gonna be offering?
What are they what is again, what's the thecompensation range?
What are the you know, what's the bonuspotential?
Ultimately, what is the what is the benefitspackage look like?
At some point in time, they're gonna give youthat information.
It's okay to ask.
I wouldn't ask all this stuff up front like Isaid but at some point in time you're gonna
(29:29):
want to ask those questions.
People say to me like, well what questionsshould I ask?
And it's like I'm gonna throw that back at you.
What's most important to you?
Your questions have to be based on what isimportant to you.
What are you what are your priorities?
Why are you leaving your current job, and whydo you wanna go to that job?
(29:50):
What are you looking for?
Some people wanna switch jobs strictly becauseof comp, and that's okay.
But if that's your main priority, then you needto know the numbers.
You need to know your numbers.
You need to know their numbers to be able todetermine whether or not it's gonna even work
out at the end.
Otherwise, you're wasting everybody's time.
(30:13):
If it's benefits, you may have a situation witha child or a family member that needs certain
care.
If that's front and center, then you bettermake sure that you're getting that benefits
package up front so you could see whether ornot they have coverage that you need.
That happens a lot.
And sometimes people wait until the very end.
(30:34):
It's like, I can't take this job because theycan't care for my son.
It's like, well, you knew that your son neededspecial care.
Why didn't you ask for the benefits booklet inthe beginning?
Or bring this to the like, it's okay to to askthese questions early, often, and and and
throughout the process.
Not not compensation questions.
(30:55):
You don't wanna ask those early like I saidbefore.
But just if it's if it's like benefits, if it'sculture, if it's if it's future, there's
there's other things that you can ask along theway, and you can ask early.
It's just you don't want it's very tacky to addto start talking about compensation unless they
bring it up early in the process.
(31:16):
Very, very important.
Know what you want.
Know what your priorities are.
What's important to you?
And and can really construct the questions sothat you can you can get the answer to those to
those questions and make a a determinationalong the way.
Number eight, first impression.
(31:40):
Understand that what the way you negotiate anoffer is the first impression that you're gonna
be giving your new employer.
And you might be like, well, Tom, it's notreally a first impression because I've I if I'm
(32:01):
getting an offer, I would have alreadyinterviewed.
So they already have a first impression.
Yes and no.
Like, yeah, that's a first impression, but thisis the impression that they're gonna be given
when you enter into the company.
This is how you're starting.
The first impression of your career at thatcompany because you're gonna be dealing with a
(32:26):
lot of other people like the people incompensation and HR and talent acquisition and
HR business partner and depending on the sizeof the company, it'll depend on who those
people are.
But the whole point of the matter is this is animpression.
Are you really gonna blow it and give the wrongimpression to your new employer, your new boss
(32:49):
over $5,000?
Think think about that before you push theenvelope because that's a lot of times you push
it I see people push the envelope for somethingthat's not even worth pushing the envelope for
(33:10):
at the end of the day.
It's just it's not worth it.
It's not worth starting off on the wrong footor having the hiring manager second guess you
or having the hiring manager say, well, I'mstill gonna hire that person, but I'm gonna put
an asterisk.
I'm still gonna hire that person, but I'm gonnakeep an eye on it because I don't like the way
(33:34):
that negotiation went down.
One of the reasons I see I see offers getrescinded is because the negotiation was
handled so poorly that they'll say to me, Tom,we saw a side of this person that made us
uncomfortable in moving we don't want them onour team.
(33:58):
We we are are no longer interested in havingthat person join us because of the way they
handled the negotiation.
That's why offers are rescinded.
That's why I'm having this conversation withyou.
That's why I'm sharing these details with youbecause I don't want that to happen to you.
I don't want you to make a mistake by showing aside of yourself that you just shouldn't.
(34:23):
And look, we all want we all want it's like I Ialways equate this to buying a house.
If you're buying a house, you never wanna paythe the highest price.
You wanna get it you wanna know that younegotiated a good deal.
It's the same thing when you're selling ahouse.
(34:43):
You wanna get the best number that you possiblycan.
But at the same time, you don't wanna lose outon the house if you love it.
If you absolutely love it, you don't want tolose out on that house over $5,000 or you don't
want to not be able to sell that house and haveit sit for longer over $5,000.
(35:04):
So just realize that you have to take a stepback and decide, do I really want this?
Is it aligned with my my goals, what I valuemost, what's important to me, what I wanna see
happen in the future, and what the long termlooks like.
(35:25):
That's the other thing is am I just gonna sayyes to something because it's a quick short
term fix, or is this a place where I can seemyself for a long time?
And if it's a place that you can see yourselffor a long time, it's even more reason for you
not to screw it up and not to chance it andrisk it.
(35:49):
So I'm gonna leave you with and, guys, I I Ihope I didn't come across as you know, I don't
come across the wrong way.
Like, wow.
Tom was he was really really sticking it to us.
No.
I I look, I'm looking out for you guys.
I've just I've seen way too many mistakeshappen.
I've seen way too many people overplay theirhand.
(36:11):
You know what happens in cards when youoverplay your hand?
You lose.
I don't want you guys to lose especially whenyou really ultimately want the job.
So I hope this was helpful.
Again, know, if you're if if you were listeningto this and you were driving, I would go back
and just take notes or listen to this againanother time when you're negotiating or when
(36:31):
you're at the end of a job offer or when you'rein the middle of a job offer process,
obviously, it would make sense because a lot ofthis has to happen during the process.
And then be better prepared.
This, guys, is advice that, like, I would givethis to my son.
I'd give it to my daughter.
I'd give it to, like and I love all of youguys.
(36:53):
I want all of you guys to win.
I want you to succeed.
And I'm giving you this advice because I don'twanna see you upset about the fact that you
said something that you shouldn't have said oryou did something you shouldn't have have done.
So I hope this was helpful.
If you guys got a lot out of it, as always,please share it with others.
(37:13):
I appreciate all of your support, and, hopethis was helpful.
I'll see you on the next one.
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