June 17, 2025 • 34 mins
In this episode, Tom Caravela and Bridget Rasmusson discuss the current state of the job markets and factors that are influencing it. They begin by discussing the economic factors influencing job availability and the challenges job seekers face in this tough environment. Bridget shares valuable strategies for navigating the market, emphasizing the importance of networking, understanding hiring manager expectations, and demonstrating enthusiasm in interviews. The conversation also covers the impact of a locked-in labor force on the MSL market and offers insights into future challenges and predictions. The episode wraps up with mindset advice for job seekers and closing remarks.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Hey, guys.
Welcome to the podcast.
Very excited because I have my number onepartner in crime with me today, Bridget
Rasmussen, who is on my team and heads up ourteam here at The Carolyn Group.
If you guys have not connected with Bridget onLinkedIn or if you don't know who she is,
please go on LinkedIn, look for BridgetRasmussen, and connect with her.
(00:23):
Welcome back, Bea.
Thanks, Tom.
How many years has it been?
It's amazing.
Time flies.
Been a while, man.
It's been a while.
So we've been doing the podcast over fiveyears.
But I don't think you and I have done anepisode probably in, like, two years maybe.
Is it possible?
A year?
I don't think so.
Yeah.
Dang.
(00:43):
Got the band back together.
Getting the band back together.
You guys are in for a treat because what we'regonna talk about is the state of the job market
for, like, the past year to year or two,really, so that you guys can kinda hear from us
what we're seeing, what our opinions are, whatwe're seeing from clients, what we're seeing
from candidates, and you guys are gonna learn alot.
(01:06):
Before we get into that, this episode issponsored by MSL Mastery, which specializes in
MSL coaching and training team trainingprograms.
So if you're an aspiring MSL, you absolutelyshould check out Aspire MSL, which is
specifically for you to land your MSL role.
(01:26):
It's a online course community step by stepguide.
We have a program called rise for, new MSLs.
It's a a coaching program and a cohort, andthen there's a program called LEAP for medical
affairs professionals that are further in theircareer that are looking for a cohort and a
community and a coaching program.
So mslmastery.com, you can learn all aboutthese programs and team training programs.
(01:52):
So check it out.
Alright, b.
Let's get into this, man.
What the f and f is going on with this jobmarket?
I mean, let's just start there.
Well, you said it.
I didn't.
What's effing up?
What is what are you seeing?
Let's let's just I wanna hear your opinion.
Yeah.
So I would say that last year for a lot ofpeople was demoralizing.
(02:16):
I think that things were very stagnant.
Things were very sluggish.
And I actually noticed it, Tom, and I'm sureyou did too.
At the end of twenty twenty three, the wordsbudget and, you know, course correction were
being floated and bandied about.
So I think that it started at the end of twentytwenty three where companies were really
(02:37):
reviewing their headcount.
And last year was slow.
I I think we were in a gridlock.
I think that it was a chess match thatbasically got paused.
And I think a lot of that was due touncertainty in the market.
A lot of that was due to the political climateand the coming election.
So it was a it was a slow year for job seekersand for hiring.
(02:59):
Yeah.
I agree.
And I I would say that you're spot on because II I think we all kinda noticed that same we
after post COVID, there was this boom thathappened in, like, 2021, 2022 was, like, the
haze.
Right?
And then that really tailed off in 2023.
(03:20):
But 2024 was, like, I think, just freakingbrutal when, you know, if you really look at
it.
Right?
Mhmm.
Yeah.
It was pulling teeth.
And, again, there were layoffs.
There was a lot of fear, uncertainty.
So individuals looking for a job, it was not aneasy time for them to navigate.
Yeah.
Let's talk about because a lot of people askme, and I'm sure they ask you.
(03:45):
What are you mentioned a couple of them, butwhat are actually the specific what might be
the factors that led to and are stillcontributing to this weakened and stalled job
market, would you say?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
I think to kinda kick things off, companies,again, were rereviewing their budgets and
(04:09):
tightening their belt straps.
So there was a really conservative approachthat was implemented last year where companies
were trying to stretch the current headcountand trying to you know, they weren't
necessarily looking to expand or grow.
They were just looking to make do with whatthey had.
Also, the change in the election.
I think that that had a huge impact onforecasts and also people's mindset.
(04:34):
So it was as much tangible factors as it waspeople's mental state.
You know, there was a coming there was gonna bea coming change in leadership.
And with that philosophy, policy, regulations.
So for the pharmaceutical industry, of course,that was gonna cause kind of a a rereview and a
(04:56):
step back, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And and markets don't like uncertainty.
And and we saw that 2023 and 2024 were the kindof almost the epitome of uncertainty because of
some of the things that you said.
I'll add.
I did a little research on this and kinda tooksome notes and tried to to think about, some
(05:20):
other some other factors.
I think high interest rates had had a bigimpact.
I think that the money dried up.
I think when you look at spec specifically atthe biotech sector and you look at the amount
of deals that were happening over the course ofthe past couple years, twelve to eighteen
months, the money's dried up.
That's huge impact on hiring.
(05:41):
Right?
Look at the number of IPOs.
You could see it right there.
Totally.
And those companies are funded by that.
So if the money is not to be found, guess what?
Everything goes on hold.
It's just tumbleweeds.
Yeah.
You know?
And then you had this whole tech uncertaintybecause of AI.
And what was that gonna do?
Do and how many jobs is that gonna take and howis that going to, you know, both help as far as
(06:05):
efficiencies but hurt the workforce.
So that creates additional uncertainty, which Ithink when we talk about layoffs, I think that
had a lot to do with some of the layoffs aswell.
But there was also you mentioned it's like, oneof the things that I've seen is there's this
because of the uncertainty, there's this lockedin workforce.
(06:28):
You have people that are afraid to make a move.
No one's taking a risk right now.
Right.
Because they see the layoffs, and they're like,I don't wanna go from this situation where I
feel like I know what to expect to anothersituation where I don't know what to expect.
Right.
So I think that's another piece of it.
(06:50):
So let me see if I'm missing anything.
What what did so let's let's talk about theimpact that all this is having on the job
seeker.
Sure.
I know that you talk to job seekers a lot.
Obviously, I talk to job seekers a lot in whatwe do, And there's just a lot of
discouragement.
There's a lot of rejection.
(07:10):
There's a lot of people that are out of work,that are frustrated, quite frankly, scared and
and and worried about what their future mightlook like.
So what advice do you have for those people?
One thing that I like to think about, Tom, inmy professional life, but also my personal life
is the concept of time and how it's ceasingit's ceaselessly marching on.
(07:34):
So right now, you have this one set ofcircumstances.
Tomorrow, it could be completely different.
It's influx as we speak right now.
Like, dominoes are being set up.
Things are shifting.
Things are changing.
So I think knowing that your set ofcircumstances now could be completely different
three to six to twelve months later,cultivating that that idea of movement, I
(07:58):
think, is very positive, especially if you'vebeen on the job market for a long time.
I also think that there's great benefit intapping into not only professional
relationships you have, but friendships.
So relying on people that you trust.
You know, if I were in a position where I lostmy job, so person I would call is my dad, you
(08:19):
know, and I would pick his brain for advice.
And if I didn't work for you, you would be theperson.
You know, you'd be the person that I wouldcall.
So I think that, relying on people that canfill your cup and just keeping in mind that
nothing is ever stagnant.
Things are constantly in flux.
Things are constantly changing and shifting.
That introducing that into your mindset, reallycultivating that, I think, could help
(08:43):
individuals who are feeling very discouraged.
Yeah.
It's great advice.
I totally agree.
I think that you have to give yourself a littlegrace and and and realize that, number one,
it's not you.
I think that's another important thing to keepin mind, guys.
Anybody out there that's struggling, that'sfrustrated, you've been at this for a while,
you're not seeing enough progress, it's notyou.
(09:06):
It really isn't.
Now maybe you could be doing more.
We'll get into that later.
But the market is is is very unforgiving, So itmay not have anything to do with you or your
background.
The other thing is you mentioned time.
You know, what we've seen I've been doing thisfor almost twenty five years.
What goes up must come down and vice versa.
Nothing stays the way it is.
(09:28):
And I think that timing is everything.
And you could be and it's also a feast orfamine kind of thing.
You could have no interviews today, and you canhave three interviews tomorrow.
So you have to be resilient and positive.
Right?
So true.
You have to persevere.
And and, you know, to your point too, Tom,don't personalize it.
And that's very hard coming from an acutelysensitive person.
(09:51):
It's really hard not to personalize it andinternalize it.
You know, you apply for 50 jobs, and you're notreally hearing back and it's just radio silent.
It's it's not you.
It's the nature of how job seekers find jobsthese days and also just this very, very
unforgiving market that we've been navigating.
Yeah.
What advice do you have for job seekers to helpthem stand out?
(10:20):
That is a fabulous question.
And the answer is going to seem really simpleand obvious.
But back when I was growing up, I playedbasketball, and my dad my dad was my coach.
And he always said, don't miss the foul shotsand don't miss the layups.
And that really stuck with me.
He's like, it's basically gimme points.
And I think a lot of job seekers andinterviewees these days, Tom, are missing
(10:44):
layups.
It gets right in front of them, and they're notdoing the work.
Preparation, it's it's number one.
You know?
These candidates lot of candidates we're seeingare going to these interviews, and the hiring
manager will ask, well, why are you interestedin the opportunity?
And they blank.
And you can't do that.
That's such a layup.
(11:04):
Why why do you wanna work for the company?
What do you know about the product?
What can you tell me about our, you know, phasethree clinical program?
Like, people blank on these very, very easyquestions.
Like, absolute layups that you should becrushing all day every day.
I think another thing that I've noticed too isthat people aren't very intentional when it
(11:26):
comes to their resume.
So they'll blast out the same resume regardlessof job.
And I think sometimes making a few simpletweaks to your resume to really highlight why
you're a good fit for that particular role orthat particular therapeutic area, that can move
the needle.
Like, just focusing on the details can reallyshift someone's perspective on your candidacy.
(11:49):
Lastly, and maybe I'll be tagged as aPollyanna, but I don't see a lot of people
saying thank you these days, which I think is ahuge misstep.
And it's it's such an easy thing that takesfive minutes, but I can't tell you the amount
of hiring managers that are like, Bridget, thecandidate never circled back.
They never wrote me a thank you note.
They never reiterated their interest.
So leading with thanks and gratitude, it'sgenuine, and it's also it's a real
(12:15):
differentiating factor these days.
A lot of people are just not saying thank you.
What would you say, Tom?
Do you have any thoughts?
I well, of all, I I I love that basketballanalogy.
Thank you for sharing that story with your dad.
I and because here's the thing, guys.
What we're hearing is that these basics are themain reasons why people aren't moving forward
(12:39):
and aren't getting jobs.
People are losing out almost on a technicalityby these things.
They're losing out because they're missinglayups.
So I think if you can listen to Bridget'sadvice, control the controllables and take
advantage of the layups and the foul shotsbecause that's what's gonna move you forward in
(12:59):
the process.
And it might sound simple.
It might sound silly.
You might actually look at this and be like,well, jeez.
Those they're so obvious.
But it's the obvious things that that actuallyprevent people from moving forward.
Even, you know, now we've gotten into this thisvirtual environment where there's so many
virtual interviews.
A lot of people are failing virtual interviewsbecause they're not dressing the part or their
(13:23):
background's not staged or they don't have goodvirtual presence.
Their eye contact is off.
They're fidgety.
They're just not good on camera.
They can't present on camera.
And if you're an MSL and you can't present oncamera in this day and age, you're not getting
the job.
That's an these are more basics that I think ifyou can follow, you're gonna give yourself a
(13:45):
fighting chance.
The other thing is rely on your network.
How do you in a crowded market, how do you getto the front of the line?
Well, if you know someone, if you can get awarm intro, that gets you to the front of the
line.
That makes you stand out.
And I think that people sometimes they know it,and they'll say, yeah.
(14:07):
I know, Tom.
You know, networking is so important.
It but it requires effort.
You have to do it.
It does.
Right?
And I think it also requires people can sensewhen you're not being genuine about it, and
you're just trying to make it a transactionwhere, hey.
I I need you to do me this solid.
(14:29):
I need you to to help me win this job.
Whereas if you've maintained a goodrelationship with that individual, again, back
to the previous point of discouragement, youknow, you call someone that you trust and that
you believe in and that, you know, you can askfor advice and having these genuine connections
to go to bat for you will make all thedifference.
But if it is transactional and if it isdisingenuous, people will also pick up on that
(14:52):
energy.
So it's you gotta plant seeds throughout thecourse of your career, and then people will
show up for you when they you know, when it'syour time of struggle or challenge.
Absolutely.
That's great advice.
And I think that that's good career advice forthe long term.
Not just you know, when you if you can do thatand if you could stay connected and in touch
(15:13):
and, and even pay it forward to folks and helppeople along the way, they're gonna remember
that.
So when it comes time for you and you need totap into that person and need a favor, they're
gonna be there for you.
So I think that's really good advice.
I think that's important.
It's a longer term play, but I think it'sreally important.
You know, I'll add one more thing, and I'llI'll share I'll share a story.
(15:35):
Forgive me that I have to throw a Metallicastory in here, guys.
You know, I'm a big Metallica fan.
I have to do it because I heard this recently,and it it really correlates well to the
interview equation.
And one of the things that I think is reallyimportant is to try to be creative in your
interview preparation.
(15:56):
And and when you talk about standing out, whatcan you find out about that company, about that
hiring manager, and something about yourbackground that maybe you can insert into the
conversation that's gonna help you to standout?
So back in 1986, I think it was, early on whenMetallica started, their bass player died in a,
(16:22):
in a truck in a, an accident.
I think they were traveling a bus accident.
They were traveling, and and Cliff Burton gotkilled.
So now they are looking to replace their bassplayer.
Guy by the name of Jason Nusted, who wasrehearsing for the part, who certainly was an
accomplished bass player, was competingagainst, like, you know, hundreds of other
(16:46):
people.
What he did was he now this is back before theInternet.
So it wasn't easy to get this information.
He found out Metallica was on tour, and hefound out what their set list was.
And he memorized and practiced every song thatwas on the set list.
(17:07):
And then when it was his turn to audition, theysaid, okay.
What do you wanna play?
He handed them a list of songs and said, I can,you know, I can play any one of those songs.
So they the the drummer of ours who who was,like, in charge of this process, he looked at
it and he goes, this is our set list.
He's like, really?
What do you know?
He goes, play the four songs.
(17:29):
Plays the four songs perfectly.
Right?
They invite him back the next day.
Guess what they asked him to do?
Play the next four songs.
So now he memorized and learned all of thesongs that were on their set list that he knew
maybe they would wanna hear, and he wound upgetting the job.
It's the same thing in the interview process,guys.
(17:51):
How can you get creative?
What advantage can you give yourself?
Yeah.
He smashed it.
Smashed it.
He didn't even have the Internet.
You know?
Now we have Google.
Now we have AI and ChatGPT.
No reason that we should not be prepared forsomething.
There's, like, no excuse.
Let's talk about hiring expectations from theemployer side.
(18:18):
How have things changed recently?
Obviously, with the market being what it is,have things changed in hiring manager
expectations and how things are judged on thaton the hiring side?
I would say, Tom, that hiring managers arelooking for the best athlete available.
(18:39):
And because there is a surplus of talentavailable, you know, there is talent that's
still spilled over from 2024.
There's been a ton of layoffs, especially atthe onset of 2025.
There's a lot of really excellent people on themarket and looking for jobs.
So because there's a surplus, hiring managersare very keen to that, and they understand
(19:01):
that.
And I would say they're no longer letting timedictate their hand.
They're saying, hey.
I'm going to hire the best person availablewhen the time is right.
So I would say that they're being moreselective, and that's why when you do go into
an interview and you aren't prepared or youdon't dress professionally or your cat walks
(19:25):
across your Zoom screen, you know, during yourpresentation, candidates are losing out on
opportunities, and there's other candidatesthat are in process.
So I would say that hiring managers, because ofthe talent available and it's top talent too.
It's it's really, really a level people thatare stacking up applying for these jobs.
(19:46):
So hiring managers are in a position of, youknow, selectivity.
And I think that when that's that's so accurateand and that guys, that means that there's very
little margin for error because you'recompeting against a more competitive, you know,
(20:06):
search marketplace.
There there's just there's other candidatesthat are competing for the job.
Now I have to be careful.
I don't wanna freak you guys out and put somuch stress and pressure on you that, you you
know, that it it makes you underperform or gettoo nervous because I'm telling you this, but
(20:26):
it's the truth.
And and it should influence the way you preparefor these interviews.
Not to be perfect, but to make sure that you'reyou're making your layups and you make sure
that you're making your foul shots.
So I I just think that that's really importantknowledge, really important to know.
(20:48):
I agree.
And just to quickly add something, Tom, I thinkwhen all is equal, the hiring manager is gonna
go with the person that's enthusiastic andshows their heart on the interview.
So, you know, say everyone shows up to the bandaudition and everyone can play the four songs.
Who are they gonna go with?
(21:09):
They're gonna go with the guy that's or a galthat's rocking out that has a smile on their
face, that's excited to be there.
It's palpable.
It's tangible.
Hiring managers pick up on that.
It's it's a nonverbal.
It's often a nonverbal cue.
It's it's a differentiating factor thatshouldn't be discounted.
I am so glad you said that because and that's aquote from my book, by the way.
(21:35):
All things being equal in a job search, theposition is always awarded to the person that
shows they want it the most.
People pick up energy in interviews.
They'll pick up your interest and yourenthusiasm.
So if you can bring a genuine sense of notdesperation or wanting, but, hey.
(21:57):
I admire your company.
I love this opportunity.
I'm my background and my skills are perfectlyaligned with this.
Congratulations on your success.
Wow.
What an exciting time for your company.
These are the type that's the attitude.
That's the energy.
That's the that's the mode.
That's the interview mode you wanna be in whenyou're interviewing with with folks.
(22:20):
Because if you're not if you can't pull that Iknow it's not everybody's personality.
But if you can't pull that off, you're gonnalose out to somebody that can.
Really, really important.
And we see it.
We see it.
So what are your thoughts?
I mentioned this locked in labor force.
What impact do you think that's having onthings?
(22:42):
And what are your thoughts on this concept thatpeople are just kinda staying put?
Yeah.
And I I can't really blame people, Tom.
I think that with all the uncertainty, whetheryou look at the economy or politics or the
state of the world, there's a lot of fear.
And I think when people fear feel fear, theyreally root down, and they they are more averse
(23:08):
to change.
And so what I'm hearing from our recruiters is,you know, candidates that are gainfully
employed, if they're 60% content, let's say,with their job and there's no real factor
pushing them out or motivating them to seekchange, they're not going to seek change right
now.
(23:29):
And I also think that the pharmaceuticalindustry is a very tight, small world.
And so these same individuals are seeingfriends and colleagues that have been out of
work for six to twelve months, and that'sscary.
That's a that's a spooky thing.
That's a nerve wracking thing.
So, hey.
You know, maybe I don't love the science I'mworking with.
(23:51):
Maybe, sure, I would love to have a managerthat would let me do a few more meta affairs
projects, but I'm pretty content.
And this is a known entity that I feelcomfortable with.
So that those gameplay employed folks, they arelocked into a sense, and I can't really blame
them for feeling that way just because what ifthey take a risk on a venture, you know,
(24:13):
clinical stage biotech, and everythingcollapses like a house of cards?
What are your thoughts?
I I I can't blame people either.
I I think that you need to look at the you haveto look at the variables of of where you are
where you are, and you have to realize that inin this market right now, you know, there there
(24:40):
there was a time when there was so muchopportunity that people could pick and choose.
And now since there's limited otheropportunities, I think it becomes a matter of
being really careful and understanding all ofthe the the variables that exist within your
current situation.
(25:01):
Meaning, you know, how much money do you havesaved?
You know, what are your goals?
You know, where do you wanna be in the nextyear to to five years?
I'm not saying that you shouldn't
going to college.
You know?
That's something that pops up.
Like, are you at in your personal life.
Right.
Now if your goal is is, hey.
(25:22):
I I'm I'm stagnant, and I need to I want tomake a move to get a promotion, or I'm not
getting paid enough, and I I there's otheropportunities that are coming to me.
I'm not telling I I I the the last thing I wantanybody to take from this conversation is that
I'm telling you to stay where you are.
That's not what I'm saying.
What I am saying, and I'm just echoing whatyours what you're, you know, kinda mentioning,
(25:46):
Bridget, is that I think you just really needto understand what your priorities are, what
your variables are, and you have to make surethat you're making a very smart and informed
decision before you do anything because there'sagain, we're in a situation where there's not a
lot of margin for error if you make a mistake.
You don't wanna go to a risky situation andthen find out that you're out of work and now
(26:07):
you're you're you're struggling back in thisjob market.
The other thing I'll mention, and we didn'ttalk about this at all yet and I think that
this is important, is that when we look at thejob market, there are different challenges and
struggles and scarcity depending on your level.
(26:29):
What we're finding is that the MSL market stillpretty hot.
It's pretty good for experienced MSLs.
Maybe there's less jobs, but I don't think it'sa bad time to be an MSL.
I don't think it's a bad time to be an aspiringMSL either because we're seeing a lot of people
land their MSL position, especially people thatare on our Aspire program.
(26:50):
And I'm not trying to tout the program, butit's real it works.
And we're seeing so
many You took the words right out of my mouth.
Call Sarah.
Call Katrina.
I mean, it I'm just asking
on the phone.
It works.
That's all I could say is, like, you you needguidance and you need the answers to the test,
and that's what it is.
But the point is we're seeing people land theirMSL job.
(27:10):
The last thing is when you the I think thehigher you go, the harder it is.
So anyone that's listening to this that may beat director senior level, senior director
level, VP, CE.
I talked to a CEO yesterday and, you know, withamazing experience in the biotech and pharma
(27:35):
sector.
She's like, Tom, what's going on?
What is happening?
It's not you.
It's the market.
It's not you.
And that's a great point, Tom, that I hadjotted down that especially this year, we're
seeing an uptick in individual contributorroles.
Like, the faucet's been turned back on forindividual contributor MSL positions.
(27:55):
Like you said, aspiring MSLs are ascending therungs of the ladder, but the leadership roles,
that has not we've not seen a correspondinguptick in those types of positions.
And so when we're getting calls from that, I Igot a message from a national director who I
think is one of the most fabulous and smartpeople on the planet.
(28:16):
And, you know, she's looking for a job, and Ijust there's just not much out there right now
for leaders.
Yeah.
But it but there will be.
It'll it'll change.
Let's talk about that.
I wanna like, what do you think is gonna happennext?
Where where do you see things in six to twelvemonths from now?
I know you don't have a crystal ball, but whatwhat's your opinion?
(28:36):
I think that we are trending upwards.
And I think that just this year, Tom, there'sbeen there's been a real uptick in new
opportunities.
And, also, what I find interesting is it's alot of team expansions, and it's a lot of teams
being built from scratch.
So I think we're going to see an absoluteexplosion of opportunity and new therapies
(29:03):
coming to market.
I think that it's a great, great time to bewithin medical affairs.
I think there will be more opportunitiescoming, you know, the half of this year into
2026, and there's movement.
It's like the light got turned back on.
You know?
We're getting calls from companies.
We're seeing hiring managers make decisions.
(29:23):
We're seeing teams expand and grow.
There's a lot of focus on growth right now.
Yeah.
I will tell you that.
I'm I'm gonna make a prediction.
I agree with you.
I think that we're gonna see things turn aroundthis year, and I know why.
I don't have a crystal ball, but I think what'sgonna happen and and you could you could mark
(29:47):
my words on this.
And I I in a year from now, I may be totallywrong.
But I think the money has been on the sidelinesfor way too long.
I think Yeah.
There are investors that have been in wait andsee mode for a very long time.
I think that whether you love or hate thiscurrent administration, I'm not gonna get
political, but I think the one thing that thisadministration that I think they're going to do
(30:11):
is lower interest rates and make money moreaffordable.
I I think that that's a goal.
I'm not saying that it's gonna happen tomorrow,but I think that that's a goal.
I think that the combination of lower interestrates and the availability of this money that's
on the sidelines that's gonna eventually comeback into the market after we get through some
of this current uncertainty.
(30:32):
Look.
Right now, as we're having this conversation,there's a lot going on.
There's world wars going on.
There's crazy things going on, riots, andeverything else.
And, again, I'm not trying to get political,but it has an impact.
It has an impact on this stuff.
But I think that the the availability of fundscould have a major shot in the arm for the job
market.
(30:52):
So I hope I'm right.
That's my prediction.
One last question I have for you, B.
So if you can offer one piece of mindset advicefor a current job seeker right now, what would
it be?
Silence your inner critic.
(31:13):
Yeah.
I think that we sabotage ourselves, and I thinkthat there's a real lack of belief in self.
And our self talk is so critical and integralto our day to day and what we ultimately can
achieve.
And so I would say to anyone looking for a jobright now, be very, very careful of your
(31:37):
thoughts and how you're speaking yourself.
I had a a friend years ago say to me, why doyou talk to yourself like that?
Would you ever say the things that you say toyourself to a friend to me?
And I was like, absolutely not.
Of course not.
I would never say, you know, you look ugly inthat dress or, you know, you can't win that job
that you're applying for.
(31:58):
So audit how you're talking to yourself becauseif you're constantly critiquing yourself and
taking yourself out of the game at every turnjust through your mind, you're never gonna
achieve what you potentially can.
Yep.
I love that.
And I'll I'll add to that because, you know, Ilove all this stuff.
Two things.
(32:19):
It's so funny that you should say that becauseI just posted a video today on LinkedIn about
how you should never verbalize a negativethought and the impact, and there's research
behind that.
So check out my video on on LinkedIn.
It's actually a little little it's an oldervideo, so little inside scoop that I reposted.
(32:39):
The other thing too is there's there's thiscommon story of, I think it was Russell Wilson
who, his father taught Russell Wilson, the thethe famous Super Bowl quarterback, who
struggled in his career but then had thisamazing year as Super Bowl MVP.
His his when he was raised, his father taughthim, if not you, then who?
(33:02):
So maybe you take that thought process into thenext interview.
If not me, then who?
Why not me?
Why can't it be me?
And make and make that your motivation.
It's my turn.
Why can't I get this job?
So now you focus your efforts on everything youcan do, the layups, the foul shots, the
(33:27):
preparation, the planning, the attitude, theinterest, all the things that we're talking
about here, and you put that together so thatit can be you.
Damn.
And it will be you.
And it will be you.
This was good.
Holy crap.
B, thank you for joining me.
This was just an amazing conversation.
I hope that helped a lot of people.
Right?
(33:48):
I hope.
Yeah.
And if anyone has any follow-up questions orthoughts, we would love to hear from you.
So keep us posted, and we'll keep you posted onwe're all in it together too.
You know, that's the best part.
We're all navigating this tumultuous, chaotictime together.
And if you're feeling discouraged, again, mybest encouragement would be to reach out to
somebody that you you love and you trust andwho fills your cup.
(34:11):
So Don't go it alone.
For having me, Tom.
Yeah, man.
Don't go it alone, guys.
Love you all.
Thank you for all your support.
Thank you for sharing this show.
We we love what we do, and we appreciate youall.
So we'll see you next time.
Thanks, guys.
Hey, guys.
Welcome to the podcast.
Very excited because I have my number onepartner in crime with me today, Bridget
Rasmussen, who is on my team and heads up ourteam here at The Carolyn Group.
If you guys have not connected with Bridget onLinkedIn or if you don't know who she is,
please go on LinkedIn, look for BridgetRasmussen, and connect with her.
(00:23):
Welcome back, Bea.
Thanks, Tom.
How many years has it been?
It's amazing.
Time flies.
Been a while, man.
It's been a while.
So we've been doing the podcast over fiveyears.
But I don't think you and I have done anepisode probably in, like, two years maybe.
Is it possible?
A year?
I don't think so.
Yeah.
Dang.
(00:43):
Got the band back together.
Getting the band back together.
You guys are in for a treat because what we'regonna talk about is the state of the job market
for, like, the past year to year or two,really, so that you guys can kinda hear from us
what we're seeing, what our opinions are, whatwe're seeing from clients, what we're seeing
from candidates, and you guys are gonna learn alot.
(01:06):
Before we get into that, this episode issponsored by MSL Mastery, which specializes in
MSL coaching and training team trainingprograms.
So if you're an aspiring MSL, you absolutelyshould check out Aspire MSL, which is
specifically for you to land your MSL role.
(01:26):
It's a online course community step by stepguide.
We have a program called rise for, new MSLs.
It's a a coaching program and a cohort, andthen there's a program called LEAP for medical
affairs professionals that are further in theircareer that are looking for a cohort and a
community and a coaching program.
So mslmastery.com, you can learn all aboutthese programs and team training programs.
(01:52):
So check it out.
Alright, b.
Let's get into this, man.
What the f and f is going on with this jobmarket?
I mean, let's just start there.
Well, you said it.
I didn't.
What's effing up?
What is what are you seeing?
Let's let's just I wanna hear your opinion.
Yeah.
So I would say that last year for a lot ofpeople was demoralizing.
(02:16):
I think that things were very stagnant.
Things were very sluggish.
And I actually noticed it, Tom, and I'm sureyou did too.
At the end of twenty twenty three, the wordsbudget and, you know, course correction were
being floated and bandied about.
So I think that it started at the end of twentytwenty three where companies were really
(02:37):
reviewing their headcount.
And last year was slow.
I I think we were in a gridlock.
I think that it was a chess match thatbasically got paused.
And I think a lot of that was due touncertainty in the market.
A lot of that was due to the political climateand the coming election.
So it was a it was a slow year for job seekersand for hiring.
(02:59):
Yeah.
I agree.
And I I would say that you're spot on because II I think we all kinda noticed that same we
after post COVID, there was this boom thathappened in, like, 2021, 2022 was, like, the
haze.
Right?
And then that really tailed off in 2023.
(03:20):
But 2024 was, like, I think, just freakingbrutal when, you know, if you really look at
it.
Right?
Mhmm.
Yeah.
It was pulling teeth.
And, again, there were layoffs.
There was a lot of fear, uncertainty.
So individuals looking for a job, it was not aneasy time for them to navigate.
Yeah.
Let's talk about because a lot of people askme, and I'm sure they ask you.
(03:45):
What are you mentioned a couple of them, butwhat are actually the specific what might be
the factors that led to and are stillcontributing to this weakened and stalled job
market, would you say?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
I think to kinda kick things off, companies,again, were rereviewing their budgets and
(04:09):
tightening their belt straps.
So there was a really conservative approachthat was implemented last year where companies
were trying to stretch the current headcountand trying to you know, they weren't
necessarily looking to expand or grow.
They were just looking to make do with whatthey had.
Also, the change in the election.
I think that that had a huge impact onforecasts and also people's mindset.
(04:34):
So it was as much tangible factors as it waspeople's mental state.
You know, there was a coming there was gonna bea coming change in leadership.
And with that philosophy, policy, regulations.
So for the pharmaceutical industry, of course,that was gonna cause kind of a a rereview and a
(04:56):
step back, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And and markets don't like uncertainty.
And and we saw that 2023 and 2024 were the kindof almost the epitome of uncertainty because of
some of the things that you said.
I'll add.
I did a little research on this and kinda tooksome notes and tried to to think about, some
(05:20):
other some other factors.
I think high interest rates had had a bigimpact.
I think that the money dried up.
I think when you look at spec specifically atthe biotech sector and you look at the amount
of deals that were happening over the course ofthe past couple years, twelve to eighteen
months, the money's dried up.
That's huge impact on hiring.
(05:41):
Right?
Look at the number of IPOs.
You could see it right there.
Totally.
And those companies are funded by that.
So if the money is not to be found, guess what?
Everything goes on hold.
It's just tumbleweeds.
Yeah.
You know?
And then you had this whole tech uncertaintybecause of AI.
And what was that gonna do?
Do and how many jobs is that gonna take and howis that going to, you know, both help as far as
(06:05):
efficiencies but hurt the workforce.
So that creates additional uncertainty, which Ithink when we talk about layoffs, I think that
had a lot to do with some of the layoffs aswell.
But there was also you mentioned it's like, oneof the things that I've seen is there's this
because of the uncertainty, there's this lockedin workforce.
(06:28):
You have people that are afraid to make a move.
No one's taking a risk right now.
Right.
Because they see the layoffs, and they're like,I don't wanna go from this situation where I
feel like I know what to expect to anothersituation where I don't know what to expect.
Right.
So I think that's another piece of it.
(06:50):
So let me see if I'm missing anything.
What what did so let's let's talk about theimpact that all this is having on the job
seeker.
Sure.
I know that you talk to job seekers a lot.
Obviously, I talk to job seekers a lot in whatwe do, And there's just a lot of
discouragement.
There's a lot of rejection.
(07:10):
There's a lot of people that are out of work,that are frustrated, quite frankly, scared and
and and worried about what their future mightlook like.
So what advice do you have for those people?
One thing that I like to think about, Tom, inmy professional life, but also my personal life
is the concept of time and how it's ceasingit's ceaselessly marching on.
(07:34):
So right now, you have this one set ofcircumstances.
Tomorrow, it could be completely different.
It's influx as we speak right now.
Like, dominoes are being set up.
Things are shifting.
Things are changing.
So I think knowing that your set ofcircumstances now could be completely different
three to six to twelve months later,cultivating that that idea of movement, I
(07:58):
think, is very positive, especially if you'vebeen on the job market for a long time.
I also think that there's great benefit intapping into not only professional
relationships you have, but friendships.
So relying on people that you trust.
You know, if I were in a position where I lostmy job, so person I would call is my dad, you
(08:19):
know, and I would pick his brain for advice.
And if I didn't work for you, you would be theperson.
You know, you'd be the person that I wouldcall.
So I think that, relying on people that canfill your cup and just keeping in mind that
nothing is ever stagnant.
Things are constantly in flux.
Things are constantly changing and shifting.
That introducing that into your mindset, reallycultivating that, I think, could help
(08:43):
individuals who are feeling very discouraged.
Yeah.
It's great advice.
I totally agree.
I think that you have to give yourself a littlegrace and and and realize that, number one,
it's not you.
I think that's another important thing to keepin mind, guys.
Anybody out there that's struggling, that'sfrustrated, you've been at this for a while,
you're not seeing enough progress, it's notyou.
(09:06):
It really isn't.
Now maybe you could be doing more.
We'll get into that later.
But the market is is is very unforgiving, So itmay not have anything to do with you or your
background.
The other thing is you mentioned time.
You know, what we've seen I've been doing thisfor almost twenty five years.
What goes up must come down and vice versa.
Nothing stays the way it is.
(09:28):
And I think that timing is everything.
And you could be and it's also a feast orfamine kind of thing.
You could have no interviews today, and you canhave three interviews tomorrow.
So you have to be resilient and positive.
Right?
So true.
You have to persevere.
And and, you know, to your point too, Tom,don't personalize it.
And that's very hard coming from an acutelysensitive person.
(09:51):
It's really hard not to personalize it andinternalize it.
You know, you apply for 50 jobs, and you're notreally hearing back and it's just radio silent.
It's it's not you.
It's the nature of how job seekers find jobsthese days and also just this very, very
unforgiving market that we've been navigating.
Yeah.
What advice do you have for job seekers to helpthem stand out?
(10:20):
That is a fabulous question.
And the answer is going to seem really simpleand obvious.
But back when I was growing up, I playedbasketball, and my dad my dad was my coach.
And he always said, don't miss the foul shotsand don't miss the layups.
And that really stuck with me.
He's like, it's basically gimme points.
And I think a lot of job seekers andinterviewees these days, Tom, are missing
(10:44):
layups.
It gets right in front of them, and they're notdoing the work.
Preparation, it's it's number one.
You know?
These candidates lot of candidates we're seeingare going to these interviews, and the hiring
manager will ask, well, why are you interestedin the opportunity?
And they blank.
And you can't do that.
That's such a layup.
(11:04):
Why why do you wanna work for the company?
What do you know about the product?
What can you tell me about our, you know, phasethree clinical program?
Like, people blank on these very, very easyquestions.
Like, absolute layups that you should becrushing all day every day.
I think another thing that I've noticed too isthat people aren't very intentional when it
(11:26):
comes to their resume.
So they'll blast out the same resume regardlessof job.
And I think sometimes making a few simpletweaks to your resume to really highlight why
you're a good fit for that particular role orthat particular therapeutic area, that can move
the needle.
Like, just focusing on the details can reallyshift someone's perspective on your candidacy.
(11:49):
Lastly, and maybe I'll be tagged as aPollyanna, but I don't see a lot of people
saying thank you these days, which I think is ahuge misstep.
And it's it's such an easy thing that takesfive minutes, but I can't tell you the amount
of hiring managers that are like, Bridget, thecandidate never circled back.
They never wrote me a thank you note.
They never reiterated their interest.
So leading with thanks and gratitude, it'sgenuine, and it's also it's a real
(12:15):
differentiating factor these days.
A lot of people are just not saying thank you.
What would you say, Tom?
Do you have any thoughts?
I well, of all, I I I love that basketballanalogy.
Thank you for sharing that story with your dad.
I and because here's the thing, guys.
What we're hearing is that these basics are themain reasons why people aren't moving forward
(12:39):
and aren't getting jobs.
People are losing out almost on a technicalityby these things.
They're losing out because they're missinglayups.
So I think if you can listen to Bridget'sadvice, control the controllables and take
advantage of the layups and the foul shotsbecause that's what's gonna move you forward in
(12:59):
the process.
And it might sound simple.
It might sound silly.
You might actually look at this and be like,well, jeez.
Those they're so obvious.
But it's the obvious things that that actuallyprevent people from moving forward.
Even, you know, now we've gotten into this thisvirtual environment where there's so many
virtual interviews.
A lot of people are failing virtual interviewsbecause they're not dressing the part or their
(13:23):
background's not staged or they don't have goodvirtual presence.
Their eye contact is off.
They're fidgety.
They're just not good on camera.
They can't present on camera.
And if you're an MSL and you can't present oncamera in this day and age, you're not getting
the job.
That's an these are more basics that I think ifyou can follow, you're gonna give yourself a
(13:45):
fighting chance.
The other thing is rely on your network.
How do you in a crowded market, how do you getto the front of the line?
Well, if you know someone, if you can get awarm intro, that gets you to the front of the
line.
That makes you stand out.
And I think that people sometimes they know it,and they'll say, yeah.
(14:07):
I know, Tom.
You know, networking is so important.
It but it requires effort.
You have to do it.
It does.
Right?
And I think it also requires people can sensewhen you're not being genuine about it, and
you're just trying to make it a transactionwhere, hey.
I I need you to do me this solid.
(14:29):
I need you to to help me win this job.
Whereas if you've maintained a goodrelationship with that individual, again, back
to the previous point of discouragement, youknow, you call someone that you trust and that
you believe in and that, you know, you can askfor advice and having these genuine connections
to go to bat for you will make all thedifference.
But if it is transactional and if it isdisingenuous, people will also pick up on that
(14:52):
energy.
So it's you gotta plant seeds throughout thecourse of your career, and then people will
show up for you when they you know, when it'syour time of struggle or challenge.
Absolutely.
That's great advice.
And I think that that's good career advice forthe long term.
Not just you know, when you if you can do thatand if you could stay connected and in touch
(15:13):
and, and even pay it forward to folks and helppeople along the way, they're gonna remember
that.
So when it comes time for you and you need totap into that person and need a favor, they're
gonna be there for you.
So I think that's really good advice.
I think that's important.
It's a longer term play, but I think it'sreally important.
You know, I'll add one more thing, and I'llI'll share I'll share a story.
(15:35):
Forgive me that I have to throw a Metallicastory in here, guys.
You know, I'm a big Metallica fan.
I have to do it because I heard this recently,and it it really correlates well to the
interview equation.
And one of the things that I think is reallyimportant is to try to be creative in your
interview preparation.
(15:56):
And and when you talk about standing out, whatcan you find out about that company, about that
hiring manager, and something about yourbackground that maybe you can insert into the
conversation that's gonna help you to standout?
So back in 1986, I think it was, early on whenMetallica started, their bass player died in a,
(16:22):
in a truck in a, an accident.
I think they were traveling a bus accident.
They were traveling, and and Cliff Burton gotkilled.
So now they are looking to replace their bassplayer.
Guy by the name of Jason Nusted, who wasrehearsing for the part, who certainly was an
accomplished bass player, was competingagainst, like, you know, hundreds of other
(16:46):
people.
What he did was he now this is back before theInternet.
So it wasn't easy to get this information.
He found out Metallica was on tour, and hefound out what their set list was.
And he memorized and practiced every song thatwas on the set list.
(17:07):
And then when it was his turn to audition, theysaid, okay.
What do you wanna play?
He handed them a list of songs and said, I can,you know, I can play any one of those songs.
So they the the drummer of ours who who was,like, in charge of this process, he looked at
it and he goes, this is our set list.
He's like, really?
What do you know?
He goes, play the four songs.
(17:29):
Plays the four songs perfectly.
Right?
They invite him back the next day.
Guess what they asked him to do?
Play the next four songs.
So now he memorized and learned all of thesongs that were on their set list that he knew
maybe they would wanna hear, and he wound upgetting the job.
It's the same thing in the interview process,guys.
(17:51):
How can you get creative?
What advantage can you give yourself?
Yeah.
He smashed it.
Smashed it.
He didn't even have the Internet.
You know?
Now we have Google.
Now we have AI and ChatGPT.
No reason that we should not be prepared forsomething.
There's, like, no excuse.
Let's talk about hiring expectations from theemployer side.
(18:18):
How have things changed recently?
Obviously, with the market being what it is,have things changed in hiring manager
expectations and how things are judged on thaton the hiring side?
I would say, Tom, that hiring managers arelooking for the best athlete available.
(18:39):
And because there is a surplus of talentavailable, you know, there is talent that's
still spilled over from 2024.
There's been a ton of layoffs, especially atthe onset of 2025.
There's a lot of really excellent people on themarket and looking for jobs.
So because there's a surplus, hiring managersare very keen to that, and they understand
(19:01):
that.
And I would say they're no longer letting timedictate their hand.
They're saying, hey.
I'm going to hire the best person availablewhen the time is right.
So I would say that they're being moreselective, and that's why when you do go into
an interview and you aren't prepared or youdon't dress professionally or your cat walks
(19:25):
across your Zoom screen, you know, during yourpresentation, candidates are losing out on
opportunities, and there's other candidatesthat are in process.
So I would say that hiring managers, because ofthe talent available and it's top talent too.
It's it's really, really a level people thatare stacking up applying for these jobs.
(19:46):
So hiring managers are in a position of, youknow, selectivity.
And I think that when that's that's so accurateand and that guys, that means that there's very
little margin for error because you'recompeting against a more competitive, you know,
(20:06):
search marketplace.
There there's just there's other candidatesthat are competing for the job.
Now I have to be careful.
I don't wanna freak you guys out and put somuch stress and pressure on you that, you you
know, that it it makes you underperform or gettoo nervous because I'm telling you this, but
(20:26):
it's the truth.
And and it should influence the way you preparefor these interviews.
Not to be perfect, but to make sure that you'reyou're making your layups and you make sure
that you're making your foul shots.
So I I just think that that's really importantknowledge, really important to know.
(20:48):
I agree.
And just to quickly add something, Tom, I thinkwhen all is equal, the hiring manager is gonna
go with the person that's enthusiastic andshows their heart on the interview.
So, you know, say everyone shows up to the bandaudition and everyone can play the four songs.
Who are they gonna go with?
(21:09):
They're gonna go with the guy that's or a galthat's rocking out that has a smile on their
face, that's excited to be there.
It's palpable.
It's tangible.
Hiring managers pick up on that.
It's it's a nonverbal.
It's often a nonverbal cue.
It's it's a differentiating factor thatshouldn't be discounted.
I am so glad you said that because and that's aquote from my book, by the way.
(21:35):
All things being equal in a job search, theposition is always awarded to the person that
shows they want it the most.
People pick up energy in interviews.
They'll pick up your interest and yourenthusiasm.
So if you can bring a genuine sense of notdesperation or wanting, but, hey.
(21:57):
I admire your company.
I love this opportunity.
I'm my background and my skills are perfectlyaligned with this.
Congratulations on your success.
Wow.
What an exciting time for your company.
These are the type that's the attitude.
That's the energy.
That's the that's the mode.
That's the interview mode you wanna be in whenyou're interviewing with with folks.
(22:20):
Because if you're not if you can't pull that Iknow it's not everybody's personality.
But if you can't pull that off, you're gonnalose out to somebody that can.
Really, really important.
And we see it.
We see it.
So what are your thoughts?
I mentioned this locked in labor force.
What impact do you think that's having onthings?
(22:42):
And what are your thoughts on this concept thatpeople are just kinda staying put?
Yeah.
And I I can't really blame people, Tom.
I think that with all the uncertainty, whetheryou look at the economy or politics or the
state of the world, there's a lot of fear.
And I think when people fear feel fear, theyreally root down, and they they are more averse
(23:08):
to change.
And so what I'm hearing from our recruiters is,you know, candidates that are gainfully
employed, if they're 60% content, let's say,with their job and there's no real factor
pushing them out or motivating them to seekchange, they're not going to seek change right
now.
(23:29):
And I also think that the pharmaceuticalindustry is a very tight, small world.
And so these same individuals are seeingfriends and colleagues that have been out of
work for six to twelve months, and that'sscary.
That's a that's a spooky thing.
That's a nerve wracking thing.
So, hey.
You know, maybe I don't love the science I'mworking with.
(23:51):
Maybe, sure, I would love to have a managerthat would let me do a few more meta affairs
projects, but I'm pretty content.
And this is a known entity that I feelcomfortable with.
So that those gameplay employed folks, they arelocked into a sense, and I can't really blame
them for feeling that way just because what ifthey take a risk on a venture, you know,
(24:13):
clinical stage biotech, and everythingcollapses like a house of cards?
What are your thoughts?
I I I can't blame people either.
I I think that you need to look at the you haveto look at the variables of of where you are
where you are, and you have to realize that inin this market right now, you know, there there
(24:40):
there was a time when there was so muchopportunity that people could pick and choose.
And now since there's limited otheropportunities, I think it becomes a matter of
being really careful and understanding all ofthe the the variables that exist within your
current situation.
(25:01):
Meaning, you know, how much money do you havesaved?
You know, what are your goals?
You know, where do you wanna be in the nextyear to to five years?
I'm not saying that you shouldn't
going to college.
You know?
That's something that pops up.
Like, are you at in your personal life.
Right.
Now if your goal is is, hey.
(25:22):
I I'm I'm stagnant, and I need to I want tomake a move to get a promotion, or I'm not
getting paid enough, and I I there's otheropportunities that are coming to me.
I'm not telling I I I the the last thing I wantanybody to take from this conversation is that
I'm telling you to stay where you are.
That's not what I'm saying.
What I am saying, and I'm just echoing whatyours what you're, you know, kinda mentioning,
(25:46):
Bridget, is that I think you just really needto understand what your priorities are, what
your variables are, and you have to make surethat you're making a very smart and informed
decision before you do anything because there'sagain, we're in a situation where there's not a
lot of margin for error if you make a mistake.
You don't wanna go to a risky situation andthen find out that you're out of work and now
(26:07):
you're you're you're struggling back in thisjob market.
The other thing I'll mention, and we didn'ttalk about this at all yet and I think that
this is important, is that when we look at thejob market, there are different challenges and
struggles and scarcity depending on your level.
(26:29):
What we're finding is that the MSL market stillpretty hot.
It's pretty good for experienced MSLs.
Maybe there's less jobs, but I don't think it'sa bad time to be an MSL.
I don't think it's a bad time to be an aspiringMSL either because we're seeing a lot of people
land their MSL position, especially people thatare on our Aspire program.
(26:50):
And I'm not trying to tout the program, butit's real it works.
And we're seeing so
many You took the words right out of my mouth.
Call Sarah.
Call Katrina.
I mean, it I'm just asking
on the phone.
It works.
That's all I could say is, like, you you needguidance and you need the answers to the test,
and that's what it is.
But the point is we're seeing people land theirMSL job.
(27:10):
The last thing is when you the I think thehigher you go, the harder it is.
So anyone that's listening to this that may beat director senior level, senior director
level, VP, CE.
I talked to a CEO yesterday and, you know, withamazing experience in the biotech and pharma
(27:35):
sector.
She's like, Tom, what's going on?
What is happening?
It's not you.
It's the market.
It's not you.
And that's a great point, Tom, that I hadjotted down that especially this year, we're
seeing an uptick in individual contributorroles.
Like, the faucet's been turned back on forindividual contributor MSL positions.
(27:55):
Like you said, aspiring MSLs are ascending therungs of the ladder, but the leadership roles,
that has not we've not seen a correspondinguptick in those types of positions.
And so when we're getting calls from that, I Igot a message from a national director who I
think is one of the most fabulous and smartpeople on the planet.
(28:16):
And, you know, she's looking for a job, and Ijust there's just not much out there right now
for leaders.
Yeah.
But it but there will be.
It'll it'll change.
Let's talk about that.
I wanna like, what do you think is gonna happennext?
Where where do you see things in six to twelvemonths from now?
I know you don't have a crystal ball, but whatwhat's your opinion?
(28:36):
I think that we are trending upwards.
And I think that just this year, Tom, there'sbeen there's been a real uptick in new
opportunities.
And, also, what I find interesting is it's alot of team expansions, and it's a lot of teams
being built from scratch.
So I think we're going to see an absoluteexplosion of opportunity and new therapies
(29:03):
coming to market.
I think that it's a great, great time to bewithin medical affairs.
I think there will be more opportunitiescoming, you know, the half of this year into
2026, and there's movement.
It's like the light got turned back on.
You know?
We're getting calls from companies.
We're seeing hiring managers make decisions.
(29:23):
We're seeing teams expand and grow.
There's a lot of focus on growth right now.
Yeah.
I will tell you that.
I'm I'm gonna make a prediction.
I agree with you.
I think that we're gonna see things turn aroundthis year, and I know why.
I don't have a crystal ball, but I think what'sgonna happen and and you could you could mark
(29:47):
my words on this.
And I I in a year from now, I may be totallywrong.
But I think the money has been on the sidelinesfor way too long.
I think Yeah.
There are investors that have been in wait andsee mode for a very long time.
I think that whether you love or hate thiscurrent administration, I'm not gonna get
political, but I think the one thing that thisadministration that I think they're going to do
(30:11):
is lower interest rates and make money moreaffordable.
I I think that that's a goal.
I'm not saying that it's gonna happen tomorrow,but I think that that's a goal.
I think that the combination of lower interestrates and the availability of this money that's
on the sidelines that's gonna eventually comeback into the market after we get through some
of this current uncertainty.
(30:32):
Look.
Right now, as we're having this conversation,there's a lot going on.
There's world wars going on.
There's crazy things going on, riots, andeverything else.
And, again, I'm not trying to get political,but it has an impact.
It has an impact on this stuff.
But I think that the the availability of fundscould have a major shot in the arm for the job
market.
(30:52):
So I hope I'm right.
That's my prediction.
One last question I have for you, B.
So if you can offer one piece of mindset advicefor a current job seeker right now, what would
it be?
Silence your inner critic.
(31:13):
Yeah.
I think that we sabotage ourselves, and I thinkthat there's a real lack of belief in self.
And our self talk is so critical and integralto our day to day and what we ultimately can
achieve.
And so I would say to anyone looking for a jobright now, be very, very careful of your
(31:37):
thoughts and how you're speaking yourself.
I had a a friend years ago say to me, why doyou talk to yourself like that?
Would you ever say the things that you say toyourself to a friend to me?
And I was like, absolutely not.
Of course not.
I would never say, you know, you look ugly inthat dress or, you know, you can't win that job
that you're applying for.
(31:58):
So audit how you're talking to yourself becauseif you're constantly critiquing yourself and
taking yourself out of the game at every turnjust through your mind, you're never gonna
achieve what you potentially can.
Yep.
I love that.
And I'll I'll add to that because, you know, Ilove all this stuff.
Two things.
(32:19):
It's so funny that you should say that becauseI just posted a video today on LinkedIn about
how you should never verbalize a negativethought and the impact, and there's research
behind that.
So check out my video on on LinkedIn.
It's actually a little little it's an oldervideo, so little inside scoop that I reposted.
(32:39):
The other thing too is there's there's thiscommon story of, I think it was Russell Wilson
who, his father taught Russell Wilson, the thethe famous Super Bowl quarterback, who
struggled in his career but then had thisamazing year as Super Bowl MVP.
His his when he was raised, his father taughthim, if not you, then who?
(33:02):
So maybe you take that thought process into thenext interview.
If not me, then who?
Why not me?
Why can't it be me?
And make and make that your motivation.
It's my turn.
Why can't I get this job?
So now you focus your efforts on everything youcan do, the layups, the foul shots, the
(33:27):
preparation, the planning, the attitude, theinterest, all the things that we're talking
about here, and you put that together so thatit can be you.
Damn.
And it will be you.
And it will be you.
This was good.
Holy crap.
B, thank you for joining me.
This was just an amazing conversation.
I hope that helped a lot of people.
Right?
(33:48):
I hope.
Yeah.
And if anyone has any follow-up questions orthoughts, we would love to hear from you.
So keep us posted, and we'll keep you posted onwe're all in it together too.
You know, that's the best part.
We're all navigating this tumultuous, chaotictime together.
And if you're feeling discouraged, again, mybest encouragement would be to reach out to
somebody that you you love and you trust andwho fills your cup.
(34:11):
So Don't go it alone.
For having me, Tom.
Yeah, man.
Don't go it alone, guys.
Love you all.
Thank you for all your support.
Thank you for sharing this show.
We we love what we do, and we appreciate youall.
So we'll see you next time.
Thanks, guys.
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