Culture, Clarity, and the Meep Mentality — with Fairfield WBB Assistant Coach Blake DuDonis

Jared here, and this week I’m joined by Fairfield Assistant Coach Blake DuDonis. Blake is one of my favorite minds (and also one of the most outstanding communicators) in college basketball. During Blake’s time as an assistant under coach Carly Thibault-Dudonis, Fairfield has become a force in mid-major D1 basketball, winning back-to-back MAAC championships and recently earning an invitation to USA Basketball’s 3x3 Nationals.

We dive deep into how Fairfield has built a culture rooted in trust, role clarity, and honest coaching. This includes the staff’s use of real data to define roles and guide player development. On the subject of roles, prepare for a thorough look at their now-famous "Roadrunner" position group, and how their staff balances hard coaching, real relationships, and gold old fashioned meep.

Blake then walks me through Fairfield’s unexpected 3x3 USA Basketball experience— from the invite, to the prep work, to the discovery that Fairfield’s style translated beautifully to the 3x3 game, to the takeaways from the experience. This retrospective ends with a must-hear take from Coach Blake himself on why 3X3 is such an untapped tool for development at every level of the sport.

I close my chat with Blake with some “real talk amongst friends” about the recruiting process, and it’s worth listening to every second if you’re a PSA or parent who wants to stay competitive in a rapidly changing recruiting landscape. 

If you’re trying to understand what fit looks and feels like, how elite college programs think, or what really makes a recruit stand out—this episode will answer your questions and then some.

_____

Download the NTRP x Athlete Narrative Recruiter App:

Click here to obtain more information about my coaching services or to check out the book! 

Watch AMAZING 3X3 hoops from Phoenix!

Have a question that you’d like answered by me or a guest?  Have an idea for an episode topic? Have no suggestions but just want to say hello? Email me at [e-mail] 

Follow me on social media!

Instagram - @NailTheRecruitingProcess
TikTok - @JaredTheCoach

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
The well traveled Blake DuDonis Good to see you buddy.
You too, man.
I appreciate you having me.
I'm really excited to talk about a lot of different things with you.
I am, I want to set the table, we'll say it this way.
I want to set the table for the three on three experience um and talk about your time withthe Stags first.
First and foremost, congrats on another Mac championship.

(00:24):
um Awesome to follow.
I, um in addition to just being a fan of, you know, what you, rest of the staff have doneand the players on your team, having scouted against you guys previously,
It's also just really fun to watch the way you play and the selflessness that your teamplays with.
And then something I really want to pick your brain about, especially with this year'srun, uh the pretty immediate adversity that your team hit early on with the loss of uh

(00:55):
Nelly.
Can you talk me through, you know,
what it was like to see some of your younger players step into bigger roles, some of yourveterans embrace different roles.
How was that experience?
Yeah, I think the beauty of our success and thank you for the praise.
uh It's been special to be a part of.
uh I think a huge undervalued part of our success is that we have not played a singleplayer more than 29 minutes a game the last two years.

(01:23):
Like we don't, we just don't.
We don't play kids 30 minutes because we play 10 players.
We have a 10 player rotation.
And so when Nellie went down in the third quarter against Villanova uh and she played sohard.
So there's like once a game, she has to like
sub out because she got hurt.
But that one felt different when it happened.
And so there was a little bit of a, you know, kind of, you know, the air got taken out ofthe room.

(01:45):
to our team's credit, the other nine that kept playing and even the kids on the end of thebench are walking on there like, okay, like, we're good.
Like, we're fine.
We still have our full rotation.
We lost one player.
And so they really didn't blink.
I got to give them credit.
Like, we didn't even have to really address it.
And then Nelly being Nelly comes back.

(02:06):
five minutes later, jumping up and down on one leg behind the bench, which I don't thinkyou're allowed to do, just cheering on her team the rest of the So she's like, I'm fine,
don't worry about me.
So it was cool because it was pretty seamless.
And so the next game we played St.
John's and ended up losing by, think, eight.
And then we won 19 straight after that.
And I do think it's a testament to how we play.

(02:28):
Like we are, the way we play, if you watch us, it is a we over me.
And you know.
the players who lead us in scoring, the Katie Lambs, the Meg Andersons, the Nellies, theypop out because they're so talented, but we're not feeding them or force feeding or
anything like that.
Like we just play and the ball tends to find the right people at the right time.

(02:49):
And then you look up and that kid had 20 today, that kid had 30 today.
And so for us, the way we play, it's like, yeah, we lost a really valuable player inNellie, but it doesn't change how we play.
And so I think that is one of the times like a...
not system over players, like the system really helped because we recruit a ton of goodplayers and we just kind of keep going along.

(03:12):
want to focus a little bit on the system.
um Something that I think is really, really unique, not just in mid-major D1, just uniquein general about your team is how well your coaching staff teaches role definition to your

(03:32):
players.
And I know you and I have talked uh prior to this podcast um about
when Katie and Meg were first years, the way that they embraced very deliberate roledefinition.
And, you know, I remember being part of a scout where I was basically just like, yeah, Megis, Meg is going to run the court and she's going to get the ball and she's either going

(03:57):
to shoot or she's going to get rid of it if she doesn't like what she has.
And like, you won't like, that's what she'll do.
There, there wasn't ever an option to see.
And for any coach that's listening to this,
Freshmen only do option C.
That's sort of what it is.
So I'd love to pick your brain as a curious coach.

(04:18):
Talk to me about your emphasis on role definition and how that process looks of gettingMeg to that point of this is what you do, you keep it moving if it doesn't work because I
feel like your young kids flourish in those roles.
Yeah, I think the summer is definitely a testing ground of sorts, right?
We're throwing new concepts, we're throwing new ideas, and we kinda just let that go.

(04:42):
We let it be a little ugly at times, but then once we get to the fall, the early fall,September, October, we've had eight weeks of data and everything, and so we're able to sit
down with these kids and have honest conversations with statistical information.
Because if we do anything live and it's even-sided, so 3v3,
four, fives, whatever, we stat it uh in terms of shooting percentages from two, fromthree, uh assistive turnover ratio.

(05:09):
So we're not just going in saying, hey, like you're forcing up tough shots.
Hey, you're shooting 22 % from two.
How can we fix that?
Is it the type of shots?
Are we shooting too much?
Are we shooting too little?
Right?
And so we are able to have those conversations with those kids with data.
So the emotion part's kind of out of it.
It's not just all coaches picking on me.

(05:29):
Like, no, like you're...
Or like Meg, she's like 50 % from three in practice.
So hey Meg, keep shooting the ball please, right?
Like it's like a crime if you only took three threes during practice, like shoot the dangball.
And so I think that piece has helped because they do realize it's not just, know, it's notan opinion, it's fact-based.

(05:53):
And it's matter of fact, and we share the stats every week.
So it's a constant communication.
And I give credit to...
you know, my other assistants do, of like, do a ton of film watching with those kids too,so they understand what it looks like.
Sian Ko was a freshman this year who ended up number two in the country in field goalshooting.
She shot 69 % as a freshman.

(06:14):
Now, I think she averaged like three and a half, four shot attempts per game, and that wasappropriate, right?
And for Meg, her freshman year, she probably took like 15 a game, which was appropriate.
And so I think when they are like with Sigh, it's like, hey, like,
We don't need you to score 14, 15 points a game.
Like we need you to come in and be solid, rebound, defend.

(06:35):
And when you get the ball, one-on-one, go score.
Meg last year was like, yeah, go score 15 a game, uh And so I think what even those tworoles are really different, both those kids felt invested and felt good about like, okay,
this is, well, research was studied, right?
And there's a reason behind this.
I think they latch onto that because they know it's sound.

(06:59):
Data is really helpful.
You just alluded to the elimination of emotion in certain conversations.
Knowing what some of your previous experiences are in coaching, I'm sure you've had aconversation where you tried to approach it objectively.
Doesn't always go over well with the person.
um I'm sure there's a lot of younger coaches or coaches at the high school level that areinterested in what you just shared about kind of objectivity in the conversation.

(07:30):
would you say or maybe can you speak to how data has helped you take a motion out of thatconversation and maybe allowed the recipients to be a little bit less guarded?
Yes, without a doubt.
mean, it's huge.
And it's better, because as you know, man, you can be trying to approach something asstraight and as honest as you can, and there's unintentional bias in your own head.

(07:56):
You just don't even know it's there.
And so even if you're really trying to figure it it exists.
And so I think it's made us better coaches.
Even if we go more big picture towards the end of last year, we were seeing some issueswhen we subbed.
And it wasn't a lack of talent like we talked about, like we have good players.
So what is it?
And so we did some like deep dives into some like lineup data.

(08:19):
And I know that's not something a lot of high schools or other people have, but like, butwe started looking and we had three players that when they played, if you took any two of
those three and played them with anyone else, numbers are great.
But when those three were in together, no matter who the other two were, it was, it didn'twork for whatever reason.
And I couldn't figure it out.

(08:41):
It wasn't like, oh, well, they shoot, they all shoot or they all play the same way.
What?
I don't know, but the math is telling us don't do it.
And so Carly would say like our head coach, like in the game, if those three are in, letme know ASAP and we need to fix it.
Right.
Like, you know, and maybe it's like, I will do it right before the media to get someonebreathe there, but otherwise, Hey, the three are in the three.

(09:03):
We got it.
We got to change this up.
And so it just, it just, again, even in ways that you don't realize it can just help youmake more informed decisions.
Something else that I really, really value about what you just shared is it's a reminderthat the coaches are humans too, right?
Like we don't have this perfectly down.

(09:23):
So like I noticed this thing and I'm gonna tell you about this thing that I noticed andnow I'm in the driver's seat to help you fix it.
We don't need to make everything rocket science.
Sometimes we can just coach basketball, it's really.
And it's okay to figure it out, right?
And like, I don't know.

(09:43):
Like, let's try this, right?
It's, it's, um, you know, I got a hypothesis.
So let's do a test, a test study and see how it goes.
Well, you know what, let's now explore one of my favorite hypotheses of yours, at least inrecent years, uh the Roadrunners, uh most, more affectionately, the Meeps.

(10:06):
uh you gotta pick, let's go.
I've become the Roadrunner guy.
Someone brought this in.
ah It's like a whole factoid on Roadrunners.
Yeah, I've become a bird guy, which I don't know if that's good or bad, but it's a thing.
So watching the evolution of this again as someone, you know, familiar with playingagainst Fairfield is wild.

(10:29):
You know, this is before your arrival to Fairfield.
Callie Cavanaugh is already a problem, right?
She wins the league with the previous coaching staff, is a great player on a great team,and then plays a completely different brand of basketball for you the next season and

(10:50):
explodes in this role.
And then you think you're like, okay, we're going to have a reprieve from that.
And then Meg Anderson shows up.
What was your, what was your goal when you first kind of wanted this identity to beembraced?
What was your goal?
I'll tell you, it has been a self-evolving thing for sure.

(11:13):
I didn't really know, like going into year one, I knew Cali was really good.
And we had Andrea Harding Gomez, who ended up getting hurt and missed most of that season.
So we really, really kind of only was with Cali in terms of big time production.
And so it was a work in progress.
When Met came in, Carly had kind of asked me, tasked me with like, want our post to havean identity.

(11:37):
I don't know why I thought of the Road Runner.
It's silly, it's dumb, in a good way.
I love it, I love it.
yeah, no, and dumb's good.
These are good, I like these adjectives.
But I framed it to the team and just talked to him.
I'm like, the Road Runner from the Looney Tunes, man, he's fast, he's running all over theplace, he's dodging danger, and he's having fun.

(12:02):
He's in the midst of chaos, he's like, maybe.
For me, like us embracing it kind of, meshed well with our overall standards and how weoperate and how we approach things.
It's like, man, fast, versatile, still having some fun, like looking at the face of theenemy saying, come on.

(12:23):
Like it just made sense.
And so once I introduced it to the team, they loved it.
Once I had to show them film, because not all knew who the Roadrunner was, which was, mademe feel very old.
Yeah.
Blake.
Yeah.
in both beards on the screen.
ah But they bought into it and then this since then, like it has really truly evolved intothis hilarious, larger than life thing that people just gravitate to.

(12:49):
And I think it is because it's fun and it's silly.
But people also get it, right?
It's not hard to explain.
Like once you say it, people are like, that makes sense.
Now, you know, they look at you sideways when you say me me and but most people laugh andwant to embrace it.
So
For me, it's been really cool because I really thought it'd be like an inside joke betweenme and four or five position players and now we've got NIL beer and we've got all this

(13:12):
stuff.
So it's kind of taken on a life of its own.
And it's funny, I have this memory of when you introduced it and I'm a huge fan of thebook Brands Win Championships.
I'm like, in my mind, I'm like, this is genius.
And then flash forward the next season, Road Runner is a position title on your playersroster pages.

(13:38):
So it's like, oh, these kids are all in on it.
This is so like to me, that is and by the way,
I don't think brand is a bad word in the way I'm using it.
Like if there is something that encapsulates an identity that the members of your teamtake pride in being a part of, I feel like that's a huge victory.

(14:01):
To flip it, how do you hold a road runner accountable?
Like are you in a practice being like, that's not meep worthy?
Like what is road running accountability for you?
What are your road runner standards?
You know, it's funny that you say that because there are times like we'll have, you know,whether it's a local coach or another college coach, someone in our practice, and we'll

(14:28):
start talking about Roadrunner stuff.
And then I'll sit there and be like, these people must think we are nuts, right?
Because there'll be times that we'll be like, hey, like Meeps, we got a Meep.
Meep's got a Meep here.
Like, and again, if you're walking in and you're like, what is...
what is happening here.
But like our kids know what that means.
That means, yeah, we're not right in the court well enough.

(14:50):
We're not nominating the side enough.
Like, Meep's got to meet.
Like, within the context, they know.
ah And so it's, it is a high standard of being committed to sprinting the floor.
ah Again, everyone's different, right?
Meg shoots the ball unbelievably well and plays great inside.
Cyan is an unbelievable inside player who can't really shoot yet.

(15:12):
We're getting there though.
And so like,
There's been times like literally, and I'm not like, if you come to our practice, I'm themost quiet of the staff by far.
And I'm much more to the side or real quick.
And so you'll see me like look at one, hey, me, me.
And they'll know, uh got you coach, got you coach.

(15:33):
So it's like, we've got our own little language going too, yeah.
This is...
I love this song.
mean, this is, if I'm just visualizing, if I'm in college again, that's the kind of thingI'd want.
Like that's what I'd, I'd want my identity to be like a, can take what I do reallyseriously, but I don't need to take myself really seriously.

(15:58):
Like that's the, I feel like that's the sauce right now with your position group.
Yeah, yeah, I think, that kind of encapsulates how I operate with myself.
Like I take this unbelievably serious, but also I, know, self-defecating humor every nowand then.
That's great.
Laugh at yourself, have some fun with this thing.
So yeah, think I'm definitely projecting my own uh personal way of operating onto myposition players.

(16:24):
I love that.
So that's the micro, right?
That's your position group amongst the squad.
Obviously, when you're doing a scouting report, when the staff is fully coaching orgetting the team ready, it gets bigger.
And I want to focus on bigger for a moment because there's another component to what youguys are doing at Fairfield that I'm really intrigued by.

(16:45):
um I was actually just having a conversation with my dad, Blake, and I was saying to him,like, I miss coaching, but during like,
NIL portal mania.
Like if I'm going to be sitting out during one like section of it, like it's okay thatit's this section and like dude, you and I now know, you know what the market value of a

(17:06):
top kid in our conference is.
If they were to, if they were to go elsewhere, it's pretty bananas.
And I think the, the ultimate sign of, um, a solid program and a together program is
I don't see very much in the transfer portal with Fairfield.

(17:28):
So I would love to know what that sort of dynamic is like, what effort goes into keeping ateam that's at the top of a mid-major conference together, and what is that secret sauce
that's keeping the stags together right now?
Yeah, I think it is very multi-layered.

(17:50):
um Yeah, it used to be when you see three or four kids leave the program, like, what'sgoing on there?
And I still see people say that.
I'm like, stop.
Like, the game's changed.
Like, unless 14 kids are leaving, like, it's fine.
um I think we've had an unbelievable balance.
Eric Johnson on our staff says it a lot of, hey, you don't want your kids to leave, like,treat them better.

(18:13):
And that's not the only thing.
There's plenty of people who treat their kids great.
who left because they got paid.
So like, don't want to act like, so please don't, don't misconstrued that anybody.
ah But I do think if you treat your kids really well, you have genuine authenticrelationships with them.
I think if you push them, Carly talks about this a lot.

(18:33):
It's because of the portal, there's like this, I think this like, I don't know, this myththat you can't coach kids hard and you can't push them.
Cause they'll just say, screw you, get out of here.
I don't know, man.
I feel like, I feel like a lot of kids want the truth and need the truth.
and having someone that's willing to hold them to a standard and not budge and not budgein a, you know, a jerk way, but in a like, Hey, no, you can meet these standards and these

(18:56):
are going to help you for the rest of your life.
And you said you want to hold, you want to stay to them.
We got you.
We're to hold you to them.
Like, I think kids are actually kind of longing for that.
uh Cause it's, it's missing from a lot of areas of their lives.
And so, you know, we, we treat them well, but we coach them up and we, we hold ourstandard.
Like we, we don't budge on that.
And
We also play a really fun style of ball.

(19:17):
We're a mile from the beach.
We've got one of the best facilities in the country and academically Fairfield's among theelites nationally.
So I think if you take all that together, it equals what we've had.
And we were really meticulous in recruiting.
uh Carly never offers a kid a scholarship on her first phone call, like ever.

(19:37):
uh So we like take our time.
like sometimes we're late offering a kid cause we're like,
We haven't had a chance to get to know you and your family, you know?
And we're not just gonna offer you because all these other schools have did.
Like we're intentional in that way.
So I think part of it too is like every kid we've gotten, we have not been surprised byanything.
Cause we knew them.

(19:58):
Like we got what we thought we were getting, right?
And some of them had some stuff, but we knew.
And other kids are exactly what they're.
So like, I just think the intentionality and the way we operate make, we've got the righttype of people here, right?
We've got our kind of people.
um And I think it equals out and look again, there's plenty of kids in our team that I'msure there'd be a lot of people who's licking the chops to get a chance to talk to.

(20:23):
But ah you just keep treating them right and you keep shooting for these big goals that weall have together.
It's not just the staff saying this is what we wanna do.
Like these kids are balled into this too.
Like we've done this together.
Again, it's not the staff and the players.
Like we collectively came here with a vision.
and are building towards this bigger, greater purpose together.

(20:45):
And I think there's something about that.
You articulated a lot of things that in truth we could spend six hours right now talkingabout that response.
I want to reduce the one thing though that really stands out to me and perhaps it'sbecause, you know, my origin story is that I'm a self-loathing Jew from Long Island, New

(21:06):
York.
So like because of that, everywhere I go, I'm very critical of the group I'm in.
I have always felt that a limitation of the coaching profession is we
are way too hard on kids the wrong way when they're not on the same level as us.

(21:26):
Like if you're not taking the same initiative as an 18 year old as me a 38 year old wholiterally does this professionally and it's my job, then we've got beef.
And when I'm hearing you say what you say and articulating the like, no, we can push them,but we're going to treat them right.
um Something that I'm thinking about and I'd love to hear your take on this is

(21:49):
this idea then that we're not gonna change the standard and we're not gonna move theobstacles.
That's gonna be where we push you.
But maybe we can find a way to not be an animal toward you as you try to go over theobstacle.
Is that sort of what you're alluding to?
Yeah, absolutely.
And trying to show them, all right, you've tried to get around this wall five times.

(22:14):
Let me show you the way.
Let me show you a different way to approach it.
Let me show you a different way to think about it.
Right.
And sometimes, you know, you got to let them run into the wall a couple of times.
Right.
And you and you and you back there.
Hey, let's go.
Let's go.
Let's go.
All Come here.
Right.
Where are you struggling?
Right.
We're big on asking questions and trying to help them find the answer as opposed to justgive them the answer.

(22:37):
It's something we're really intentional about doing.
It's not like if you come watch film with me and one of my players, it's very rarely.
Hey, look at this, do this, look at this, do this.
It's hey, what do think we could have done better there?
And then they look at it go, um, well, yeah, I'm like, no wrong answers.
Like guess, you know, and they'll start talking out.

(22:57):
Sometimes it's like, yeah, that's exactly right.
Or I'd like, ah, what about this?
Oh, right.
As opposed to just talking at them.
Because again, they feel invested in their own.
growth development.
uh that's something we're really intentional about doing.
and giving that ownership I think is really important.
You I think about these quote unquote radiator toucher moments, right?

(23:19):
How often in your time scouting have you said, this kid literally gonna shoot fromanywhere, gotta have a hand up on her wherever she is.
And then one of your freshmen is gonna get on the court and be like, I'll be the judge ofthat, right?
What productive thing comes out of me then?

(23:40):
you know, gritting my teeth and going, I told you she was a shooter.
Like, I think that's the kind of thing that we're talking about here.
Yes, yes, yeah, because it doesn't fix anything.
It doesn't make them feel better, obviously.
And it doesn't actually make you feel better.
So like, we are at a complete loss situation here.

(24:01):
So let's try to find some more productive stuff, right?
ah Yeah, now on the four three, you're gonna hear it.
All right, for sure, right?
But not even the fours, I ain't letting you get the four.
You're gonna be sitting right next to me.
But yeah, but absolutely.
Yeah, I'll give you one.
That's fine, but we're doing no BOGO specials over here, so

(24:21):
I feel that.
This is, okay, so this is good.
The foundation of the stags has been set and I appreciate you being so in depth,especially when it comes to how you choose to coach and lead as a staff.
Now we get to talk about this 3x3 origin story.
um You end up in Arizona.
There are not a lot of mid-majors there and there's also like pros there.

(24:46):
So I want to start, I guess, with an easy one, which is
How does this come about?
How does this opportunity come about?
Yeah, I mean, out of left field to be honest with you, I mean, we had we wrapped up ouroff season workouts and we're kind of, you know, done and dusted.
And then we got an email from USAB saying, hey, like we, you know, we're having this eventand I don't know if someone dropped out or whatever.

(25:12):
I presume that's what happened.
And they said, you know, we're obviously aware of your guys' success and just wanted toknow if you'd have any interest.
And I saw the email come in, like I was on my email app.
saw it come in.
So 20 seconds later, Carly and I are like, yes, right?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
uh And so we got on the phone with the team that we took and we kind of ran it by himlike, look, we'll get the details later, but here's the deal, right?

(25:40):
You get a chance to go compete against pros and top tier players and the whole thing.
And they were like, yes, whatever.
We'll get the details later.
So it really did come out of left field and it was a no-brainer for us to jump one and allfour of those kids that end up going, two returners and two graduating players, they were
all, could not have been happier about it.

(26:03):
um I want to, before we dive into like the minutia of three on three, talk about thatgroup specifically.
um These are kids that you have great relationships with, um multiple starters, varyingages, and this thing just kind of gets thrown together and you're coaching them.

(26:26):
Like you are sort of, to steal the business term, the project lead.
Blake DuDonis So my question, I guess, in your head, this is happening.
It's dope.
What balance are you looking to strike here with?

(26:47):
They probably haven't done 3X3 before.
How much structure and coaching am I giving them?
How hard am I going with the Xs and Os versus like YOLO, let's just go have the greatestexperience ever.
Like what's the...
What's the balance?
Yeah, it was definitely more of the first, like we are like just the way we operate withour normal program, like we are not going out here and just being happy to show it up.

(27:11):
We're going to try to win, right?
We are going to try to win this fricking thing.
And we understand that the likelihood it's probably pretty low.
If Vegas put odds on it, we understand we're at dark horse.
Screw it.
We're going to go out there and we're going to know what we're doing.
and so Carly and myself both
just kind threw ourselves into film, watching back Olympics and World Cups and Europeanchampionships, going through the whole thing, strategizing offensively, defensively, kind

(27:39):
of the whole thing.
so, yeah, none of our players had played it.
And so introducing the concepts to them, uh thankfully we have an unbelievable group ofscout guys uh that help us all year.
And so when we told them what the deal was, you know, coach, you let us know when we needto be there.
So we were scrimmaging.
You know true for fours each team uh leading up like the girls have set up times with themand those guys were there so they were really helpful and so they they were learning the

(28:06):
game too.
And so no we had and I give a girls credit like they came up with a lot of actions thatthey liked and thought made sense and that they had the calls for and it was like yeah you
guys got it.
Because as you know like once the game starts I'm just in the stands as a fan.
Like I can't there's no coaching in the game.
It's the players and.
of the things that makes 3on3 so unique.

(28:28):
is, it's not pickup, but it gives you tremendous pickup vibes.
yes, yes it does.
Yes.
And so it was really cool because it was like, yeah, you guys actually do need to havemore of a good handle and feel in this than I do.
Because I can talk to you after the game, but when that clock starts at 10, it's all you.
And so I thought our kids handled it and approached it with the same type of intensity oflike, we are not going out there and getting embarrassed and looking ridiculous.

(28:55):
Like we are going to be organized.
We're going to be together.
And if we lose because we lose and then we just get beat.
So be it.
And so the approach going in, I thought was really well handled by everybody.
Is there a moment where you and coach Carly are watching some of the international filmand the Olympic film and you go, wait a minute, there's a lot of two men away from the

(29:21):
ball.
We kind of do this already.
Like this, this might not be so bad.
Like, is there a moment that you're like, okay, we can transfer these skills?
Yeah, very quickly we were like, okay, yeah, yeah, this kind of, yeah, this kind of lookslike that drill we do three times a week, right?
Like, yeah, no, there was definitely that realization.
And I think there was some level of comfort for our kids of we do this already.

(29:44):
And so I do think that gave them a little bit of peace.
And like, yeah, we're good.
Like it's a little different, but it's not that different.
Yeah, I had, I was very, very privileged and I had um Catherine Plouffe on the podcastlast week.
um I mean, if we're talking about the versatility and the two man action required to besuccessful in 3X3, she's pretty good at it.

(30:10):
um She shared with me that she feels like 3X3 is this like untapped resource fordevelopment and that more young people should be doing it
And the two big reasons she gave, one was the short-term memory required to play in a12-second shot clock where you can literally outlet the ball and get it back in a second.

(30:36):
That you just have to be focused on the next thing constantly.
And then the second thing was, to your point just now about like that three-on-threetwo-man action drill.
And especially with not as much help defense, if you make the right read, you prettyconsistently get rewarded.
for making the right read.
So especially after the experience you just had, could you see 3x3 becoming more of adevelopmental tool?

(31:02):
Cause it does seem like a tremendously gratifying thing when you get plays right.
It should.
And I don't know why it wouldn't.
And yeah, then there's nowhere to hide, right?
Like you, know, if I'm on five, can hide someone on a bad defender or you can hide a badoffense.
Like there ain't nowhere to hide out here.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
You know it.
Yeah.
So like there's a big difference for being like 20 % of the court flesh as opposed to 33 %of your, of your team.

(31:29):
Like there's a big difference there.
And so I think so.
And I, mean, I know we will be playing three on three.
I bet you come in our gym this summer.
probably gonna see us be playing three on three at some point in that workout.
So yeah, I do think, cause it's all the stuff too, it's handling in tight spaces, it'smaking the right reads, it's finishing one on one, finishing off one foot, two foot, it's

(31:52):
quick decision making.
There's, yeah, I think it's fantastic.
uh can, especially when you're around a high level event like that, you can just, you getit, right?
You're like,
Yeah, I see why there's leagues.
I see why there's people making money playing three on three.
I see the thing.
I see why there's specialists who like, you know, I know a lot of people when I tuned intothe Olympics, a lot of the kids are like, who are these people on these teams?

(32:16):
They're really good at basketball and they're really good at this type of basketball,right?
Like really, really good.
And so I, it was a little eye opening for me too, because I had watched it and I had paidattention, but not anywhere near the detail.
that I had, and so now I'm locked in, man.
I'm following all the three on three leagues.
I'm like so into this sport now.

(32:37):
The thing that stands out about it the most, I guess what I would say is I'm thrilled thatthis lane exists because it does exist in other sports because they break down other
sports by position.
In basketball, you can't really just be a specialist in one thing and play.
In all these other sports, you can.

(32:58):
The thing about 3X3 is there are people that are dominant 3X3 players that maybe
at the zenith of their five on five careers were like role players that did one or twothings really well.
That's what I love about the 3X3 game is the improvisation, the reads, you're constantlyrewarding quick smart basketball.

(33:21):
So.
And, and there's just so many ways you can do it.
Like I, I cracked up in our first game.
We were playing a team of, you know, it was several sec schools and it was Taylor Jonesfrom Texas, who I think is six six and Katie lamb who's five six on a good day is sitting

(33:41):
there banging with her on the boards.
And I'm cracking up.
Cause like, obviously you see that.
when you play a five on five game, but in three on three, I'm like, no, these two areplaying against each other and it's not ridiculous.
You know, it's just like, yeah, that's the sport.
Like, and that's I think is really cool because Taylor had a great, you know, tournamentfor her team and Katie had a great tournament for our team and they both were able to be

(34:04):
successful in it.
So I, I think there's some uniqueness to the sport that's a little different than yourtraditional.
If we're talking about, by the way, attitude criteria for a three-on-three tournament, Ifeel like Katie Lamrow is the quintessential three-on-three player.
And also, you know, I message you during the Mac tournament when Katie Lamrow hits likethe back-breaking step back three, and she does it in the 3X3 tournament.

(34:31):
Unbelievable.
I mean, it was so unbranded.
If you were there or if the guy, if the broadcaster wasn't talking, you would have heardme.
And you could actually see me in the background of a lot of the celebrations of Jess.
I think I was wearing this, actually.
I'm just going nuts.
Because as soon as she let it go, I had the perfect view.

(34:54):
I'm like, that's it!
That's it!
determined now to find it because it was on YouTube I'm determined to find to find areplay of this and impose it over this part of the podcast so this
yeah, absolutely.
She was so creative.
So creative.
Last thing I want to ask you about this before we turn the corner and talk recruiting toclose it out.

(35:17):
um This happened very recently for you guys.
So A, I'm so grateful that we got to reflect on this while it's fresh in your mind.
But B, as you reflect on this, because it's fresh in your mind, can you summarize theexperience, the impact for you and the players?
Because it just, this is not the type of thing that comes around super frequently.

(35:40):
That's right.
Immensely grateful, obviously, to be included.
And we represented ourselves well.
We are the third highest team scoring-wise in the tournament.
We averaged almost 18 a game.
ah You know, our defense needed to step up a little bit.
ah But, and again, we're now at the point of our program where we're not happy being like,oh, good job.

(36:05):
guys like pat us on the back because we're cute little fair field like we're like honestlylike we don't really want that validation anymore because again we went there to win but I
do love that we went and we like we almost like we lost that pro team by four we lostOklahoma State by two lost to South Dakota State by two maybe maybe one those we lost by
three but like we competed and showed that we belonged and and I really was proud of ourkids that

(36:34):
throughout the whole thing, there was immense gratitude.
mean, one of our kids literally, so you get one practice session on the court the daybefore the tournament starts.
And one of our kids, our graduating kids, Riana Brown, like she stopped shooting at onepoint and she looked around and she literally grinned.
She goes, y'all, this is so cool.

(36:55):
And like that moment for me was so cool, right?
Like I'm like, yes, it is.
It is so cool.
that we're here and we're with these guys.
It makes me like emotional thinking back to that moment.
And the whole time they were so grateful and they were thanking everyone that helped them.
There's rebounders during warmups and they're thanking them and they're grateful.
And then like, they were pissed when we lost.

(37:16):
And when they were watching film, they were like dialed in.
They were talking about no, no, this needs to be better.
And they were, they were pushing each other.
mean, I'm, cause during the timeouts, you know, I can hear them cause I'm in the stands,but I'm not saying anything, but you can hear them holding each other accountable.
Hey.
You gotta get in there and rebound that ball.
We've gotta get second chances.
My bad, I got you, right?
Seeing them respond in that competitive environment where a lot of people, if you'd givethem the results, they probably would've said, good job, Farron, you a nice little job.

(37:43):
And our kids left there going, nah, man, we're pissed.
We wanna make the knockout rounds, and we didn't.
so, just, an honor, obviously, anytime you get to wear USAV across your chest is a bigdeal.
And I just, again, I'm so proud of our kids.
for recognizing the magnitude of the thing that they hadn't earned, because they earnedthat opportunity.

(38:05):
You just said something really, really interesting to me.
um You talk about this idea of having a program that as you want to continue pushing andbuilding the standard of the program, they're not just happy with the participation.
They want to win, they want to take it.
As we changed gears to talk about components of recruiting, I continue to be surprised asI work with and meet more young people.

(38:31):
They still don't realize that like that competitive spirit
is something we're recruiting.
That is something that we want to find in people.
I'm judging you and I don't like to do this, but I know you as a friend.
So I'm going to say I'm judging your body language and I'm interpreting what you just didas a, yeah, that's a thing.

(38:52):
Dude, like we, it's funny, cause when we talk about Katie Lam, Lammer, we just call herLam, but when we talk about Lam, she like is the embodiment of a dog.
And I people say, she's a dog, whatever.
Like frankly BS, Katie Lam's a dog.
And there ain't many, there ain't many of her around.

(39:13):
So all you other people are calling yourself dogs.
Like if you're not up to her level, like I you're not, you're not a dog.
And so.
That edge and that competitiveness, it is something we've actually talked about.
Like, okay, so we graduate lamb in two years.
Like we need to make sure we get another dog in here before then.
ah Year one, she was kind of a wild dog.

(39:37):
Yeah, she was a little like, had a, hey, whoa, we're gonna kind of reign a little bit.
And so we're like, yeah, if we can get someone in here and give them a year to work withher and kind of let her show them the way.
it's gonna set us up for success moving forward.
Cause there's times she wills us, you know?
And so we literally, we offered a kid that's gonna come on a visit next month that thesiding edge of why we like, no, we're off for, we're like, that kid's a dog.

(40:02):
And everyone we talked to said that kid's a dog.
And that's what we talk about.
Like, are you telling me that kid gets to play with Kingland?
Like, come on, let's go.
Like she wants to win.
She's whatever.
And again, is it always the right way?
No, but that kid's 17 years old.
Like we can help channel that one to get here.
Right?
Like that's our job.
of what your personality is, when you're a teenager, it's not fully together.

(40:24):
It's our job as coaches to refine it.
That is part of our job.
like, yeah, yeah, no.
But if you've got that innate thing that's already in your chest and yeah, yep, we'll fixit.
I think we're good enough coaches to figure that part out.
So yeah, it's absolutely a massive, massive part of our eval, even if they're not theCades level.
If you don't have a certain edge about you, a certain want to, not gonna be for us.

(40:49):
One of the challenges, building right off what you just shared, one of the challenges I'mseeing on my end is I'll talk to people and I'll kind of say, so who have you been talking
to?
Who's recruiting you?
And to use your school as an example, I say, well, Fairfield is extremely interested in meor Fairfield's, you know, I think Fairfield's into me.
And, you know, I think because of what I do in my experience level, I'm like one of thefew people that says back to them, like, can you give me some examples of what that looks

(41:14):
like if they're interested in you?
So.
I have someone like you here, help me set the record straight.
If you are actively interested in a current sophomore or junior, you want them to play atFairfield, what does that look like and sound like and like what are your interactions
with that prospective student athlete?
Yeah, I mean, you're talking pretty frequent communication.

(41:38):
ah Sophomores, maybe it's once a month, you know, we're not trying to overwhelm or overdoit.
But like, I look at like the 26th class, right?
The current juniors, rising seniors, like the kids we want, we are at minimum texting withthem every week, right?
And usually a coach is calling them every week, right?
But it is constant communication.

(41:59):
It's, and we do preliminary phone calls for kids all the time, but
If I called a kid in, I don't know, March, and that's the only time we talked, you know,kids probably on the B list, right?
The backup list, which is fine.
But like when we're talking about seriously recruiting or they're really interested,constant communication.
I would, I would, I would again, every situation is different.

(42:22):
I would define constant as at least monthly, likely bi-weekly if you're actually truly inthat consideration.
And again, because you're you and I trust you, given our relationship away from thispodcast, I want to toss out another hypothetical, which is that you can't push the river

(42:45):
when it comes to this sort of stuff.
We love it when players take initiative, so don't get me wrong.
You getting film into the hands of a coach is great.
Emailing, texting coaches is great.
But there's no situation where you can really make the staff like...
love you.
You're not going to jump 90 spots up a list simply by, you know, being persistent.

(43:07):
They have to kind of catch the bug on their own.
It has to be in the way they evaluate, correct?
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The way to push the river is go ball out, right?
And go play and go perform.
That's how you do it.
100%.
Love that.
On the subject of taking the initiative, which I constantly encourage athletes to do, uhyou are one of my coaching friends that has in jest forwarded me bad emails before and

(43:36):
been like, hey, is this the kind of stuff you're teaching?
And, uh you know, it's tough.
because we can only impact so many young people.
There are only so many young people willing to honestly listen and take the input from usand be coachable when it comes to it.
But why don't you walk me through what you perceive to be a bad email etiquette or maybesome Blake Doudonnes pet peeves.

(44:01):
I mean, I don't know, you want me to like pull some up and read them?
No, I won't do that.
Look, I do not mind, I don't mind mass emails.
Like don't mind you having a big copy paste email.
Like that's fine.
Cause especially if you're trying to put yourself out there, you're trying to get yourselfseen, I get it.
But if you can tell it's a copy paste email, it's just not going to be treated with thesame level of severity.

(44:28):
Now,
Part of my role in the staff is any interest email I get or we get it sent to me like ifso if you didn't email me and emailed Coach Erica, she'll send it to me and like I'm going
to look at I will read it and I will look at it and most of the time I'm gonna click yourlittle highlight film and I'm gonna watch it and sometimes it's for 10 seconds and I
already can tell no you're not good enough, but it is the lack of genuine connectionsright like and again, I get it I was a 17 year old kid that wanted to be recruited at one

(44:55):
point, but if you're
main objective is I just need a school.
just want a school.
just someone, anyone help me, help me.
Like that ain't us.
Like I don't know what you think Fairfield is, but that ain't it.
Uh, and so like need, I need to know, like you actually want Fairfield to recruit you,right?
Because I had a kid in their headline or in their title, the email said your next roadrunner.

(45:19):
So I'm reading that email, right?
Cause that's a kid who has paid attention.
Yes.
about.
Yes.
And, the, and her email was super basic and it was probably copy and pasted, but that shedid enough research to make me go, okay, she actually knows who we are and knows what
we're about.
Right.
And so I can get on board with that, but the mass general, mean, the miss the, you know,the wrong school and the wrong name.

(45:41):
That was a new one, Jerry.
Last week I got put on an email with a whole staff of another team in our league.
So that was fun.
So it was, it was head coach.
two assistants and coach Blake at Fairfield.
uh And so, I mean, that kind of stuff is the bare minimum, but just showing any level ofintentionality of, I want to go to Fairfield.

(46:07):
I love the Northeast.
I've seen how successful you've been.
Just like, and to me, it's just, it's so lazy not to, and you're just wasting your time.
It's not about being lazy.
It's just, you are wasting your time.
Like make concentrated effort on places you actually care about and you can actually play.
wanna frame this, you're such a good and kind person, and God, I love you for it.

(46:31):
And I wanna frame this in a bit more bold of a way, because I know you'll agree, and thisway you don't have to say it.
um College coaches are looking for people that are gonna take their coaching and workreally hard, right?
So if their very first impression of you is that you won't take three extra minutes

(46:54):
to proofread, to personalize.
Like if your very first step in the door is I'm taking a shortcut, why would they likesuspend disbelief and be like, yeah, of course this person is not going to take shortcuts
if we bring them here.

(47:15):
Well said.
Well said.
Ready?
you, I appreciate you.
uh This is, uh you talked about having uh access and opening every email and reviewingeverything you get.
Your former assistant, Shelby Lyman, said something very, very similar to me.
uh And I wanna kinda push you on this real quick.

(47:37):
Let's say you get an email and it's someone, you look at the first.
10, 20 seconds of their films and it's a prospective road runner.
So you roll your sleeves up, you're like, okay, this is my position group.
What are the things that you're looking for that would really get you interested in aprospective road runner for Fairfield?

(47:59):
Yeah, that's a great question.
We value versatility here, right?
So we love people that can do everything.
We love people that can shoot, that can score inside.
Like shooting, we do put a premium on because of how many we shoot.
But our rule is like, if you can't shoot, what are you elite at otherwise?
Because I mentioned Cyan for us, like she's not a shooter.

(48:22):
Like she cannot shoot, but she is an elite rebounder and she's...
She's at 69 % from the field, it's a true freshman.
She is an elite finisher.
We can work with that, right?
And so that's kind of our litmus test is, can you shoot?
If not, what are you elite at?
Not good at, elite at.
So I would say a lot of people use Swiss Army knife as a compliment.

(48:45):
When I hear that, kind of, I don't like that.
like, if I need a pair of scissors, am I gonna get a pair of scissors or am I gonna get aSwiss Army knife and use those scissors, right?
If I need a knife.
Am I going to get the little Swiss Army knife or am I going to get a knife?
Right?
Like I don't want the Swiss Army knife.
It's like, if you need it, it can do.
Give me a pair of scissors, man.
Go be a pair of scissors, right?

(49:06):
And be a really good pair of scissors.
And so, you know, if you're really good at all that stuff, that's a different story.
But like, just like, what are you good at?
So like when I watch a kid's film, show me what you're good at.
Right?
Like I, I I'll step away real quick from not a, not a road runner.
Let's say it's a five foot one point card.
And like the second clip is like her blocking a kid shot.

(49:27):
I'm like, you're not a shot blocker, you're a five foot one.
Like, and that's fine.
But like, why am I, why are we wasting time with this?
Like, what are you good at?
So when I see a road runner that's like, yeah, I coach, I can stretch the floor from threeand I watch a two minute video and I see one made three.
I go, well, that tells me you can't shoot, which is fine, but you said you could shoot.
So like, what are we doing here?

(49:48):
So that's what I always want.
Like show me like.
Cause you're maybe gonna get a coach to watch it for two, three minutes, right?
So what are you good at?
Show it to me.
Show it to me now, right?
And I like, I'm good if you divide up in sections of like, hey, here's all my inside,here's all my shooting, here's all my passing, whatever.
But if you're not doing that, man, like that first minute through, it shouldn't just beright hand layup, right hand layup, right hand layup, right hand layup.

(50:11):
Okay, that's all you do then in my mind's eye.
And we're getting 10 of these emails a day, right?
So that's, that's what I would say.
Oof, you just really helped me with the segue for where I wanted to wrap with you.
You're getting tons of emails every day on recruits, tons of emails every day on recruits.
And also, thanks to the modern generation of basketball, your recruiting pool is doublethe size, because you could just as easily find a transfer athlete.

(50:39):
So my question to you is, if you add an open podium to a room full of young high schoolkids that want to play college ball,
might not understand the current landscape and what it really takes to get yourselfrecruited and get yourself, you know, a scholarship offer.
What would your advice for those kids be and how would you set that table for them?

(51:02):
Ah, that's a good question.
ah I'll start by just saying like us at Fairfield, we are recruiting four year players andwe want four year players.
So like just for the record, ah we use the portal to supplement and fill gaps.
But we are actively like we want to resign four freshmen this incoming year for the 26thclass.

(51:24):
We want to sign three or four freshmen.
Like we've got one transfer this year.
We've got four freshmen and one transfer.
So don't tell me.
All people are doing is doing transfers.
Like we're not, like we want.
add, I love that for development reasons and that's why a lot of us got into theprofession.
So big thumbs up for you.
uh
exactly the point.
so yeah, but what I would say is, especially players that are going to have to, cause I'dsay most, most people are going to fall in this bucket of like, you're going to have to

(51:49):
take your recruitment into your own hands is being open-minded and willing to trulyconsider what level can you play at?
Right.
And I, and I say this and not uh in a rude way or an arrogant way, but like,
We're in the top 25 last year, right?
We got votes this last season in the top 25.

(52:10):
We are a program that has proven we're a top 50 program in the country, right?
So for a high school senior to email us November for senior year saying, I'd love to talkto you about like, come on, Like, you know, you don't have any offers and you think like
it just, it's not realistic, right?
It's the same.
I'd say the same thing.

(52:30):
I see some of these kids on Twitter, know, tweet to Dawn Staley, like come watch me coach.
it's like,
Come on, man.
Come on.
Like, being honest with yourself of like what matters to you, what, you know, find theright fit.
And there's so much good basketball, not at that level of South Carolina level or ourlevel or the division one level, or even D2 level.

(52:51):
Like there's so much good, there's so many good environments and situations and schoolsand programs.
So I would just encourage people to be honest with themselves and be open-minded about it.
Right.
Um, on the same account, we had a kid email us like,
you know, hey coach, I've got like five division one or division two offers, but like,really want to play D1, which I get, but also like, man, you got five D2 offers.

(53:14):
That's so cool.
Like good for you.
That's amazing.
Like I hope you're really taking those with seriousness that they deserve.
And so I think that's what I would tell people.
and to value that.
And again, you can have aspirations and goals of, you know, playing and competing at thehighest levels possible, but also going somewhere that makes sense for you.

(53:35):
Um, you know, we talk about a lot recruiting when, we often recruit against power fourschools, big East schools.
and we've lost kids before that.
Well, I just want to compete at the highest level coach when you're sitting on the benchor you're losing and it's late January and you go back to your dorm, sad, and you're on a
10 game losing streak.

(53:55):
You will not be comforted by the fact that, well, at least I'm playing in the ACC.
Like, no, you're going to be sad.
because you're on a 10 game losing streak, right?
And so like finding your fit.
the same way for like, I got to D1 and I'm not playing ever, but that's okay, I'm at D1.
If you're a competitor, like that's not gonna fulfill you.

(54:16):
ah And so I would encourage people to find something that's actually gonna fulfill you,which I think is people that will treat you well, that will push you to reach the goals
you want and to be around a group of people that are like-minded.
And if you want to compete and play, I think that matters.

(54:37):
not only an incredible take, but a take that echoes the sentiment of many of my recentpodcast guests who found their fulfillment in different places.
you know, of course you could be a believer that things happen for a reason, but youworking on your own self-awareness and seeing what's actually out there, that helps you

(54:57):
find your reasons now, doesn't it?
And I'll say this, people say to us, man, I can't believe you guys are still at Fairfield.
Do you know the opportunities the staff has had to leave Fairfield for a bigger school?
Who cares?
We love this place.
We love our administration.

(55:17):
We love our kids.
We love how we can do what we do and do it the right way and do it in a special way thatwe've kind of captured.
the imagination of a lot of people, right?
Both in this community and outside of it.
Like people, people like the stags, right?
Cause it's different.
it like, like, yeah, we could have gone left and Karlie could have made more money andErica and me and myself, we could have all gone and what, but like, this is our fit.

(55:43):
This is our place.
These are our people.
And there's such value in that.
And there's like, there's no mistake in the same way we to Katie, Nellie, Meg, whoever allcould have gone bigger and bigger.
Like big time is where you make it, man.
Like we, this place operates like a big time program.
Cause we think we are a big time program.

(56:03):
And it's cause we, made it, we decide.
I, always talk about all this place, that place, every place, all that is, is people.
Everything is people.
That's it.
Right.
You take any group of people and move it to another place.
That place becomes great because of the people.
And so I know I'm a little rancy right now, but like truly and sincerely.

(56:23):
Okay.
Good.
Good.
Good.
I just.
I just, think people lose sight of like level and this and that man.
Who are your people?
Who are you with?
Who are you doing with it?
That is the big time.
So I don't care if you're playing at, I don't know, spring Arbor university in Michigan,which I think is an AI or if you're playing at, you know, Finlandia D3 up in Michigan, are

(56:47):
you playing at South Carolina?
Like big time is wherever you decide is big time.
You know what the funny thing is?
going to get mentioned.
Finlandia University didn't realize they were getting a shout out on this podcast.
uh
They're gonna be like, don't know who hell this guy is, but hey, shit.

(57:07):
I pulled that one out.
That was a left field one.
That was a left field one.
That's a real school for the record.
Yeah, you know what that is?
That's how we know you coach D3.
That's what it is.
Right?
There should be like a Jeopardy category of like, these are real D3 schools.
And then...
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Finlandia very much gives like a lion witch in the wardrobe.

(57:29):
Like, we're going to Finlandia through the wardrobe.
I've been there and I think I had to go through a wardrobe.
Yeah.
I'm trying to remember the school that's out there in a similar region.
And I know that their mascot is the Fightin' Scots and I'm drawing a blank on their name,but they had the dopest logo ever.
That was like something that stood out to me during my D3 time.

(57:50):
That's good.
Yeah, you know, by the way, if anyone ever, anyone listen to this, if you ever see me inreal life, a little fun party trick I have is if you name a division one school, I can
name you the mascot.
Like I can tell you the nickname of the school.
So some D3, some D2s, like I've got a little peppered knowledge, but like if you ask me, Idon't know how many D1s are on now, like 380.
If we went through all 380, I bet you I would get 372 of

(58:14):
This is good.
This is by the way, uh maybe as like a bonus feature, we're gonna have you back and juststart a clock and I'm literally just gonna yell conference names.
go.
Just do it.
Yeah, that's fine.
So I'm have people yelling.
This is what's gonna happen.
I'm gonna go recruiting in a week or in July.
People are just gonna start shouting out, know, Cal Bakersfield, you know?

(58:34):
Yeah, UTIGV.
Yeah, it's gonna be great.
I cannot thank you enough for making this time super informative and again just so happyfor you, for the whole squad, for all the recent success, man.
Thanks again for everything.
I appreciate you, man.
I love what you're doing.
think it's so important.
It's impactful.
I listen to everything.
I watch everything.
And I just think it's really great for people to have the opportunity to learn fromsomeone who knows what they're talking about because you've been there.

(59:00):
And I just, can't say how valuable ah it is to people.
And just on a human level, I just think the world of you.
And so I know you probably don't appreciate me turning the spotlight towards you, but Iappreciate you and who you are.
And I just love that you are.
in this space and I think our game is better because of you.

(59:21):
I appreciate you and I can't wait to tell my wife that I earned another fridge magnet.
Thank
Thanks so much.
Go Stags