September 24, 2024 • 66 mins
Jared here, and today, I’m joined by Coach Allison Roberts, an expert in the field of college volleyball recruiting and the founder of "How to Get Recruited.” Now, you may be wondering why I’m so excited to have a volleyball recruiting specialist on my basketball recruiting podcast.
Boy, am I happy you asked!
Coach Allison and I have gotten to know one another over the past year, and we realized that the volleyball and basketball recruiting spaces have a TON in common. We use this podcast to dive into these similarities and address the universal challenges high school athletes face as they try to find their dream college.
Before Coach Allison started her company, she was a former college athlete AND college coach. You’ll learn what it was like for Coach Allison to navigate her recruiting process without much guidance, and how some small assumptions nearly threw a huge wrench in her experience.
In addition to a metric ton of advice for high schoolers and their families, this episode is also bookended by some mythbusting. We tackle common misunderstandings about college athletics, specifically about the different competitive divisions and what athletes should really be looking for.
Get ready for an hour of invaluable tips on how you can take control of your recruiting journey, reach out to coaches with confidence, and make smart decisions that will set you up for success both on and off the court.
You’re definitely going to want to find Coach Allison after listening, so here’s all the info you need:
https://www.howtogetrecruited.net
Instagram/TikTok - @HowToGetRecruited
X (Twitter) - @HTGRecruited
________________
Have a question that you’d like answered by me or a guest? Have an idea for an episode topic? Have no suggestions but just want to say hello? Email me at RecruitingGEAR@gmail.com
To obtain more information about my coaching services or to check out the book, visit www.nailtherecruitingprocess.com
Follow me on social media!
Instagram - @NailTheRecruitingProcess
X (Twitter) / TikTok - @JaredTheCoach
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Coach Allison, welcome.
Thanks for having me, Jared.
Excited to be here.
I am, I'm very excited to see you.
I've shared with our listeners that you've actually kind of been a mentor to me as I'vetried to figure out how to do this.
And for the, for the listener that might be wondering why, what is a, what's a volleyballcoach doing on the basketball podcast?
(00:25):
One of the first things we really learned was how universal a lot of the things we areteaching are and how commonplace a lot of what we're talking about is regardless of the
sport.
But I will start by asking you this because this is a question I ask all volleyballplayers because they tend to also be tall and athletic.
Did you ever play basketball?
(00:45):
I played one semester in seventh grade because my dad, my dad played like all the sportsand he was a pretty good basketball player so I played one semester in seventh grade.
I was 5 '10 in seventh grade so they just stuck me under the basket.
were like rebound get it out.
Don't try to dribble.
Don't try to shoot.
(01:06):
Probably don't try to run and talk.
Rebound get it out.
So I enjoyed the team aspect, but I also did not like people in my personal space.
That was my big bugaboo and a big reason why I chose volleyball.
There was a net between me and the opposing team, which I appreciated.
But I did love my one season.
I had a lot of fun.
(01:26):
I can respect that as someone that watches volleyball the lack of opponents in your faceaside from at the net is Yeah, but in a weird way I also feel like that puts a different
type of mental pressure on you like I had a very old -school coach growing up that hewould go around the room and Ask what's the hardest shot in basketball to make and his
(01:48):
answer was a wide open layup with nobody near you and then every time someone missed alayup he would like magically show up and just get in your ear and be like
That's the hardest shot in basketball to make.
So I can imagine like clamming up if I have opportunity to like bump it or set it with noone near me.
Right, is like each touch is all on you, but it is also like your contact affects the nextperson, affects the next person.
(02:14):
Yeah, there's so many similarities and differences in sports, but yeah, that's absolutelya big kicker is don't touch me.
Just do your thing, I'll do my thing.
I'm an excellent athlete as long as you are far away from me.
I love that.
track was my other sport that I competed in.
If you if you were gonna ask that question, that was my only other one.
(02:38):
This is honestly what we're talking about could also be like an incredible slogan forintroversion.
Like I am phenomenal at what I do as long as you are away from me, which is basically howI feel at the end of every day.
Which is funny because I'm an extrovert but it's like in trekking fields, so I did highjump, I did all the jumps, I high jump, long jump, triple jump, and it's like after you do
(03:03):
your jump you're just talking with all the other people, you're just shooting the breezelike, there's a bird over there, what's hard in middle school, you know, all that fun
stuff so it's funny how that kind of plays out.
So we have a lot of similar experiences and it's important right off the rip for anybodylistening to be able to get to know you a little bit.
So you spend a lot of time coaching your former athlete.
(03:27):
We'll talk a little bit more about both of those endeavors later, but just to get started,what led you to start how to get recruited and, you know, be a guide to mentor young
athletes through the volleyball recruiting process?
How did that get started for you?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I love sport from a very young age.
I was always interested in athletics.
(03:49):
I was always interested in challenging myself to figure things out just physically on thejungle gym, on, you know, God help me the basketball court, wherever I was.
I wanted to do the best that I could.
So I clung to volleyball.
Volleyball was my favorite.
Played in high school.
I played in college.
And I played when I was a high schooler.
(04:10):
It was kind of that age when I was a sophomore.
where it was that time where it was like, okay, I'm pretty good.
I was playing on a lower level team.
Do I want the big club experience?
Like was kind of making those choices.
And I did choose to play for, you know, one of the top clubs in the country that's in theDallas, Texas area.
And I played for that club and it was, you know, a great experience.
(04:32):
I loved my time.
I loved playing at high level.
And that's when kind of the recruiting conversations came up of, you want to play incollege?
I never wanted to stop playing so was like, heck yeah, I want to keep playing as long as Ican.
And they had some seminars, they had a recruiting coordinator, but they didn't necessarilylike walk you through the process, they weren't necessarily guiding you.
(04:58):
you know, thank God I did wind up at a school that I loved, I had an amazing collegeexperience, I wouldn't change it for the world, but looking back are there things that I
would do differently in my recruiting process?
Absolutely.
And it was kind of one of those things where you're just throwing spaghetti at a wallseeing what stuck.
And that's kind of what my recruiting process looked like and it did work out.
(05:21):
But I definitely wanted someone to bounce ideas off of and be like, you know, there's over2000 colleges with women's volleyball.
I don't know the exact numbers for basketball.
I would assume it's pretty similar.
Yeah, it's like...
Where do I start?
You know, like you start at the big schools, the places that you've heard of, all that.
(05:41):
But at the end of day, it goes so much deeper than that.
I, you know, after applying in college, I coached in college for six years and ended upbecoming a military spouse.
And I met my husband.
We had three kids in three years and just, we were in a place where coaching in collegedid not make sense for our family.
So I stepped into the club game and became a recruiting coordinator for a local club thatwe were at in Tennessee at the time.
(06:08):
And I was like, I want to help with recruiting.
I need to help with recruiting.
love recruiting.
I kind of missed it, honestly.
That was my favorite part of coaching in college was the recruiting process.
So I was happy to help.
I held a couple seminars for my club.
And after a seminar, a senior in March would come up to me and be like,
(06:29):
What should an email look like?
Or, you know, how do I get a college coach to call me?
And I'm like, you call them, what are you talking about?
You know, just simple things that I was like, how has nobody broken this down for you?
So, it was at that point that I was like, there's something there.
And then one day I read a blog from a big recruiting website about why parents should nothelp.
(06:58):
their student athlete playing college.
And it was very, it was pretty much a fear mongering feel of a blog.
it was like, parents don't know what to say.
And you know, they have unrealistic expectations for their athletes and you know, allthese things.
And I was, I was so angry after reading it.
(07:18):
I was like, so tell them, help them.
You know what?
You teach them.
Why are, why is it, why is it that?
So I,
You know, that day is when I opened up my Instagram account for how to get recruited andit's just kind of grown and developed and it's been an amazing blessing and gift to me.
I absolutely love what I do and I wouldn't change it for the world.
(07:39):
So that's kind of my origin story.
imagine with where you are now, like I imagine when you started this, did you have anyexpectation that it's like, this is gonna be my full -time thing and I am gonna be like
the go -to person in the volleyball recruiting consulting space?
Like did you have any vision of that when you set out to do this?
(08:00):
didn't even know what it was.
I thought I was gonna be like a recruiting influencer.
I don't know, I just kinda started talking about it.
And it just kinda grew and developed with my personality and with the personalities of myathletes that I was working with.
And a lot of people who would reach out and say, hey, I wanna know about this.
I was like, okay, I'll tell you about this.
(08:21):
So yeah, I had no clue how it would grow.
It's been...
It's been amazing, you know, it's it's not by my own power I'm so thankful for all mypeople in my support system, but it's been really fun to watch it
Very, very cool.
And it's funny to hear about your origins from that blog because I don't think, I thinkthe only person in my orbit that really gets this about what I'm doing now is my wife.
(08:47):
And I wonder if you have the same thing with your husband where like, when my wife listensto the conversations I'm having, she would look at anybody else and be like, yeah, you
still coaching.
I wonder, is that a similar thing that you feel?
Like, do you feel like you coach the recruiting process right now?
Yeah, so I was always Coach Allison.
(09:08):
When I was playing in college, I started coaching club.
I was Coach Allison.
I was Coach Allison when I was a college coach, and my recruits that I work with stillcall me Coach Allison.
So yeah, it is very much coaching.
It's similar conversations.
It's just different goals and different kind of tactics to get you to those goals.
(09:29):
Yep.
All right.
So our goal now, Coach Allison, our goal is to sort of drive these fences together.
And I want you as much as possible, you and I are going to approach the rest of thisconversation thinking about all sports in mind and just the best ways for recruits to put
their foot forward, things that stood out to you about your own process.
(09:51):
And we're going to focus on the transferable things.
And I think the best place for us to start with that is your own college experience.
So
I believe I want to make sure I have this right.
You graduated in 2013.
Yes.
Okay, so you go to play D1 volleyball at Presbyterian just as they become a Division 1school.
(10:14):
So that's a very unique recruiting process.
Having gone through that process yourself and now that you've seen so many otherprocesses, are there certain parts about your own process when you look back at it?
You alluded to some of it in your first response.
Were there any things that really surprised you that you think are worth sharing with arecruiter, their parents that are listening now?
(10:34):
yeah, so much we can make an entire podcast just off of that question, honestly.
Yeah, again, and I'll always preface, I absolutely love PC.
It is an amazing place, amazing people.
It was really the people is why I went there at the end of the day and I would not changeit for the world.
But yes, as a 16, 17 year old going through this process, you're going to be looking at itthrough a different lens.
(10:58):
And if you had asked me that same question,
right after I graduated in 2013, I would give you a different answer than I would give younow.
It's funny to look back and think why did I choose this school?
And I say it's the people and that's 100 % what it was.
But when I look at the other offers that I had on the table, I was just talking with mymom about this the other day because the memory's a little fuzzy.
(11:25):
And I'm like, do I remember this correctly?
And just thinking through my different visits, like I had a lot of
different schools that I was talking to.
I wasn't tied down to a location.
My dad's a pilot.
I always loved traveling.
I was kind of up for whatever.
And so I saw a lot of different types of schools, different places, different coaches,different styles.
And, you know, I think one thing that I would maybe go back and change potentially if Icould is I was offered a walk -on position from my top school.
(11:56):
They were my number one school in
the whole process kind of start to finish kind of thing.
And they offered me a walk on position and my 16 year old ears heard you're not valuablebecause they were not offering scholarship.
And I think it's something, I don't know where the stigma started, the whole D1 stigma andthe whole full ride.
(12:19):
There's a big stigma tied to that.
And so that was my goal was D1 full ride.
You know, I was pretty flexible on all the other details, but those were the main thingsthat I wanted.
And I think looking back, this school had everything I was looking for.
It was in a great location.
It was a good medium -sized school, amazing coaches, amazing people, great campus, goodfacilities.
(12:43):
You know, I walked away from the conversation of here's a walk -on position.
I said, no, thank you, not interested.
And looking back, I'm like, I should have engaged with that.
I should have looked at different scholarship options at the university, academics, know,different kinds of things.
So that's definitely a big one that I would walk back and have a conversation with myyounger self.
(13:06):
think about this a lot.
And, you know, funny thing about us building a relationship over social media is we havebehind the scenes commented on some of the stuff that we have posted.
And one of the things that seems to be a big, I'll call it red flag for both of us isdisillusionment about fit.
(13:28):
And if I were if I were to interpret what you just shared, to me it is I see this placethat
was basically waving its giant inflatable arms at me and saying, I am the perfect fit foryou, but I was very worried about the status part of it and how that interferes with the
goals that I set in my head.
Is that a fair way of transcribing?
(13:50):
Okay.
it.
I don't want to get too ahead of ourselves, but could we potentially agree that that ismaybe one of the biggest challenges that you and I face with our clientele day to day?
between stigma around different levels and the stigma behind scholarship, 100%.
(14:13):
I would say those are two super common conversations I've had.
So between the two of us, we have literally coached at every level of the NCAA, everylevel of the NCAA, you have the NAIA.
And I guess a listener with, that's an alumnus of a USCAA school, I guess could complainabout this, but I'm willing to forego that and say, we've got our bases covered.
(14:43):
And I want to talk about this because
I feel like you probably had to dispel a lot of that, not only during your time coachingat a great D2, but also in steering recruits towards D2 or lower.
And I was constantly looking at these recruits at the D3 level that were adamant abouttrying to go D1.
(15:04):
And I would watch them go to camps and like the messaging that you're a perfect fit for ahigh D3 was smacking them in the face.
And they were still trying to go D1 and
felt like I was not in the right position to ask why as a Division III coach, right?
Because of course I'm going to ask why as a Division III coach.
It's in my best interest to recruit the But now that you and I are not doing that anymore,it's a good opportunity to break that down.
(15:34):
So let's start with Southwestern Oklahoma State.
Mm
great school, great facilities, and I'm going to ask this just so that I don't come off ascondescending.
But let's just say hypothetically, I put you guys up against a low, mid -major, Division Ischool.
(15:57):
Who wins?
today or back when I was a player slash coach.
But it would it.
I'd pay to watch the game either way.
It would be tight.
You know my first year there.
Definitely a growing year.
My second year.
(16:18):
We started doing it the year after I left, so all the recruits that I brought in.
They won the conference championship and they would have beaten a lot of the division oneschools that I.
played against and were in my conference at PC.
In both of my Division I coaching experiences, on the men's side and the women's side, Iwatched a Division II scrimmage where the Division II team gave the Division I team the
(16:44):
business.
It happens all the time, all the time.
And I don't think enough, and I really want you to fill in the blanks here, because I'mabout to explain this super poorly.
That's a great thing for a podcast host to say, by the way.
I think people look at divisions as tiers, just going linear, where they should look atthem a little bit more like a Venn diagram that kind of stacks, where like you've got your
(17:11):
D2 and you got your D1, but then you have this area in the middle.
where, and there's been research on this, like the top 20 % of D2 is outspending thebottom 20 % of D1.
So it's full scholarships for their top athletes, it's better facilities, full coachingstaffs, and there's still kids that would get so hung up on the fact, that's not D1.
(17:38):
What do you say to that kid?
I say a lot to that kid and this is this is why we get along so well, Jared.
I literally I'll share with you a PDF I have of a different scale that is exactly what youjust explained.
This is why this is why we get each other.
It's just it's so much more than your sport.
(17:58):
You know, it's so much more than your sport.
Really like why I coached at SWOSU is kind of the acronym for it.
Why I coach there is because of the people.
Why I chose PC was because of the people.
I genuinely think one of the most powerful things that you can do in your life is surroundyourself with people who are going to bring the best out of you and who are going to make
(18:21):
you better.
Sports, academics, work, whatever it is, you have to, you can't, you can't do any of thison your own.
And I, for the athletes who are so hung up on D1, number one, I ask them why, why D1?
And sometimes they give me a good answer.
I think a fair answer is I want to compete with the best.
(18:45):
That's that's fair.
Absolutely.
And then to that, I always say, OK, well, tell me about some D2 games that you've watched.
Have you seen a D3 practice is my buzz one?
Yep.
Like tell me why you have this category and kind of this firm line in your mind and youknow, I respect it.
(19:07):
It's fine.
And I think there are, you know, some athletes who are physically at the point where likeD1 is just, you know, a good fit and they want to eat, breathe, sleep, volleyball, or you
know, whatever their sport is.
And to those kids, say, OK, let's go for it.
But to pretty much every other athlete, I'm like, we should not just be honing in on onelevel.
(19:28):
If D1 is your goal, that's great.
That's awesome.
Like, let's talk about it.
But we can't just be honing in on D1 schools because I can't tell you how many athletes inmy time I've seen.
D1, D1, D1.
No, I'm not talking to the D2.
No, I'm not talking to the Juco, the D3.
I'm D1, D1.
Late in your senior year.
(19:50):
And they're like, this is not working out.
I'll just go to a big school and, you know, enjoy my student life.
And it's like that's the right choice for some people.
But I so wish the athletes would just try it because it's it's no commitment to you tosend an email to a school.
It's no commitment to you to pick up the phone and talk to a school.
(20:14):
You're not committing.
You know when you get to that point, then you can decide is it the right fit is D2 theright fit is you know the scholarship everything else.
But up until that point just have the phone call you know.
So hear what they have to say.
Cause yeah, the facilities at Swasu are insane.
I I played Division one.
(20:35):
I played it a small Division one, not great facilities.
They've gotten better, but I played against.
A lot of the big schools we played at Arizona, we played at Illinois State, we played at alot of big schools with great facilities.
Swassu has just as good.
Bless you.
(20:56):
We'll, we'll truck right past it.
Swassu has better facilities than a lot of those major division one programs I playedagainst.
It's not as big, but it's nicer.
and it's a way bigger stadium than I played in as a D1 athlete.
And it's, if I had seen that, if I had physically gone to campus and seen that as a highschool athlete, you would have had my interest.
(21:20):
Absolutely.
And I think to myself, by the way, I truly believe that saying swasu so many times is whatgot me to sneeze.
It's close enough to a sneezing sound.
Yeah, see, you, yes.
My thought around this is so much of missteps in the recruiting process is due to a lackof, I guess we'll call it awareness.
(21:47):
How well do I know myself?
How well do I know my options?
So I think about your transition from coaching at the collegiate level to now running aclub.
This is something I have not done.
Someone has asked me recently how, like if I would consider doing it and right now I haveno.
I just like, there's too many dynamics to club basketball.
I don't know how it compares to club volleyball, but I imagine that you might've had somestubborn heifers during your time working at the club level.
(22:17):
Mm
Is it possible, and this is more for the sake of our listeners than for me, because I betI know the answer, but is it possible that you've tried to direct some people that really
weren't hearing it, that were adamant that it was going to work out some way and maybethey really were not in touch with the amount of work it took to accomplish that, and then
(22:37):
all of a sudden they stop playing the game that they love and they're looking back withregret?
Have you seen that story coaching at the club level?
Yes, so many times.
think more athletes and I think they're the stigma is changing a little bit.
I think more athletes are understanding the options and it you know, it's so multifacetedbecause there's more athletes playing club sports than ever before.
(23:06):
There's more competition for it and the spots aren't increasing at the college level, butthe athletes who are fighting for those spots are increasing so.
the way that they go about the process has changed dramatically.
And I think more athletes are understanding, I love the sport.
(23:26):
That's the core of why I want to keep playing.
Yes, I do want to play D1 and that's great, but really I don't want to stop playing mysport.
Or I've been working with a lot of athletes who are interested in the medical field.
Tons of athletes are interested in working in the medical field, which I love.
And doing that at the division one level is hard, really hard.
(23:50):
If you're doing pre -med, if you want to do nursing, I've had coaches tell me, we don'ttake nursing students because it doesn't work once you get to clinicals.
You have to miss a lot of practices, potentially games.
There's just a lot of conflict there.
So I think more athletes are getting it and understanding it.
It's a big picture thing.
Like let's zoom out past the D1 and let's look for some other things that are importantand valuable and are going to set you up for success after college.
(24:19):
Cause at the end of the day, that's what this is all about.
Even though we love our sport and even though we're gonna learn so much through it, it'sbigger than just the sport itself.
So is it fair to say that a good portion of your why can be sort of reduced down to, lovethis sport, you love this sport, I want to see you play this sport at the next level in
(24:44):
the place that's best for you so that you can take what this sport has to teach you at thenext level?
Is that sort of the relationship you wanna have with your clients?
Absolutely.
And that's why when I do work one -on -one with athletes, I watch their film, I go totheir games.
I, I'm not blind to it.
And that's important to have someone watching your film to give you the feedback of, yeah,D1 is within your reach or we need, we need to rework that and really kind of hone in on
(25:14):
where coaches are going to be excited to get back in touch with you because
There's also the subsection of athletes who maybe they could play D1, but they're going tobe filling a roster spot or they're going to be sitting the bench for two, three, four
years.
And I personally have never met an athlete who was happy in that role.
(25:37):
that that's another reason why I chose Presbyterian is because I wanted to play.
Like I, I had never been a bench player.
I even as a coach, it was hard to be on the bench, even though I had to, I legallycouldn't.
so that was a big reason why I chose that is there was playing time that was, you know,prepped and ready.
Nothing's guaranteed, but it was there.
(25:58):
And, and, and I knew that when I was making that decision.
So I think, you know, I think it's just, yes, I love the sport.
Yes.
I want to see athletes succeed.
You know, athletics has so much to teach athletes about life, about who they are.
I think the college age, the big thing that drew me there is.
(26:19):
people are figuring out who they are.
I had no idea who I was, was what I was going to do when I was going into college.
And I figured that out and I figured it out a lot after college too.
But I think there's just so much with those athletes where they're figuring out who theywant to be.
And I think athletics is going to teach them a lot of those life lessons ofresponsibility, of work ethic, of, you know, character, you know, just a million things
(26:47):
that they're learning.
And at the same time, they're getting a great education so that they can do what they wantto do after college, whatever that looks like.
So you just said something that resonated with me in your response, which is that people'sjourney towards the next level is so multifaceted and their whys could be so different.
(27:13):
And it's kind of a responsibility that we take down, take on ourselves, excuse me, to likehelp them find that lie.
I wanna call your attention to a specific archetype of athlete.
And that archetype of athlete is the quote unquote late bloomer.
Something that I deal with a lot, and I imagine this is something you experience as well,is the kid that is doing everything correctly, but either their game is not flashy enough,
(27:46):
their game has not developed enough, or the places that they're targeting, they havepotential to ultimately get attention from, but where they are right now.
Mm -hmm.
getting that attention.
And those are the kids that I have, like I would say the softest spot for, because I knowthat if they stick with it, they will ultimately be successful.
(28:09):
Conversely, those are the hardest kids to convince to stick with it.
And I would love to know what your experience has been like with those late bloomers.
And I'll give you a follow -up after we talk about that a little bit.
So.
Yeah.
had exposure to that kind of kid and what's it been?
Yeah, there's a lot of those kids and you know when I coached at the NAI level, I got alot of Juco kids who.
(28:35):
You know, Juco is such a great option for late bloomers because you need a couple moreyears to and you have to have the right coach at your Juco who's going to pour into you
and develop you and all of that.
So yeah, lots of those in my time as a college coach and lots of those right now as arecruiter.
And I think a lot of those athletes will have.
(28:57):
these goals and dreams of the big school and whatever situation and so much of that wehave to.
It's a fine balance between pushing them to be the best they can and also the realisticwhere you are now, because there are other athletes where you are now, but they're here
(29:19):
and those are the athletes that are being recruited by those bigger schools.
So if you are starting in a lower
starting point and there are other athletes who are playing better than you or they'retaller or they jump higher or they've just been at it longer, whatever it is, you have to
have intangibles.
(29:40):
have to have other characteristics better than they do.
Your work ethic has to be twice what theirs is, within the realm of reason and within therealm of expenses and energy and time and all that.
But if you are a late bloomer, you have to wear that chip on your shoulder and reallychallenge yourself to see what you're capable of.
(30:01):
And if you're not willing to do that, we're never going to see what you're fully capableof.
And you can, you could still go play in college, like where you're at right now.
My philosophy is there's a place for everyone.
You know, there's really great college athletics.
There's really bad college athletics and there's everything in between.
So I really believe wherever you're at, there's somewhere that you can play.
(30:26):
Can hear me?
Sorry.
Cut a cut out for a second.
time -stopped.
The last thing I heard you say was, wherever you are, there is somewhere that you canplay.
Was the last thing I heard you said.
okay, perfect.
So yeah, it's really with those athletes who are the late bloomers, they have to make achoice if they want the grit, if they want the hard work, or if they're comfortable with
(30:48):
where they're at.
And that's good enough.
You just handed me a dynamite segue coach.
So you have an athlete that's a late bloomer.
You've given them that choice and they look back at you and they say, all right, coach,I'm going to stick with it.
What's your advice to that kid?
get in the weight room on it.
(31:08):
Honestly, like so many when I think about the athletes I'm working with now and I haveworked with honestly so much of it is just like athleticism and strength and vertical
because God gave you what it gave you.
You're as tall as you are.
You know we can't change that, but you can jump higher.
(31:29):
You can get faster genuinely doing the right things in the weight room and eat.
Nutrition like those two things.
You don't have to be perfect.
Enjoy your life.
Be a kid.
You know all that.
But if you are fueling your body the right way before and after workouts and you areputting all that effort in, you're going to grow leaps and bounds and the younger the
(31:51):
athlete is, the further they can go if they are working with that work ethic for thoseperiods of time.
So it's keep your eye on the prize.
It's it's a it's called a grind for a reason, right?
It's not.
It's not easy or everybody would do it, but if they are willing to work, those are the,those are the biggest things for me.
(32:11):
I that.
is, I don't want to share too much, but a hilarious thing that you do not know.
I just had a conversation with someone who I think has the potential to be a Division Iathlete that will be a late bloomer, and the very first thing I said to her was, you gotta
do strength and conditioning.
So, that is insane and amazing, and there you go, more evidence that volleyball andbasketball are very similar.
(32:38):
So,
You know, I grew up a big Billy Joel fan and Billy Joel famously says in his song,Sleeping With The Television on, I really wish I was less of a thinking man and more a
fool who's not afraid of rejection.
And I now think of that line.
I, okay, I'll give it a whirl.
(32:58):
I really wish I was less of a thinking man and more a fool who's not afraid of rejectionall night long.
Okay, I'm going to stop now, but thank you.
Thank you for indulging me.
think of that song every time I say to a kid have you reached out to any college coachesand they reply back
(33:21):
Mm -hmm.
And I've told myself this story that I think it's a fear -based thing that like these kidsdon't want to be ignored by college coaches.
They don't want to hear no.
So they kind of do the ostrich defense.
If I put my head in the sand and I do nothing, I think I won't get hurt.
Is that a fair hypothesis?
(33:42):
Would you think that is the big thing that drives kids not wanting to reach out to collegecoaches?
It is either fear of rejection or it's laziness.
Mmm.
I don't see a third option.
It's not knowing your self worth or just not wanting to do the work and expecting it to bedone for you.
(34:05):
And I think there's athletes in both camps and I think that there's athletes who have beentold coaches will contact you or you're good enough that you'll get discovered and yeah,
maybe.
But if you take that stance, you're going to get a handful of schools who are interestedin you as opposed to
being proactive and reaching out and creating success for yourself, then you're in thedriver's seat and you get to control, you know, who, gets a hold of your film.
(34:34):
I certainly don't want to give away all of your trade secrets for free, but okay, okay.
That's your bit.
Hey, you know what?
I was given similar business advice, so that's fine.
But I do want to know, because I'm curious as to how similar we sound, especially indifferent sports, for the kid that's really reluctant to do that, that really believes
(34:55):
that this is going to come to them or has that fear of rejection, what is your pitch tothem?
What is your like, I need you to do this because?
Well, first of all, those athletes are usually not working with me because the athleteswho want the athletes who are coming to me who need help want to do the work.
(35:18):
You know, I've had maybe a couple of athletes my whole time doing this that it was like,come on, you have, you know, I I'm trying to help you, but I can't do it all for you, you
know.
So for the kid who says I'm good enough, I'm, whatever.
If they're past that June 15th date, I ask them, okay, who have you heard from?
(35:39):
You know, if we haven't heard from coaches and it's past that contact date, it doesn'tlook like your strategy is working right now.
Would you like a strategy that works?
You know, so that's number one.
Number two is, you know, what does your network look like?
Because that's another, you know, we've got, so there's so many myths in the recruitingprocess.
(36:04):
Another one is that your coach will,
You know, I know that's a big thing for basketball, a little bit bigger than volleyball.
My, my cousin actually played collegiate basketball and he's a trainer.
should connect you guys.
but yeah, he, he kind of has, has filled me in a little bit that there's kind of almost anexpectation of your, coach to kind of, you know, have those conversations sometimes and
(36:25):
get you recruited.
thing.
If high level AAU coaches essentially have to prove to their clientele that they can be aliaison.
I don't actually like that as much because then what ends up happening, I hate to drive atangent here, but what ends up happening is then that AAU coach exclusively sends kids D1
so that they can build that clientele list whether that kid's a D1 kid or not.
(36:48):
And then they transfer.
Okay, sorry, I digress.
Continue, continue.
No, that's, that's absolutely.
so yeah, it's, it's just like.
I don't know, you know we we got.
We gotta try something different.
You gotta be in the driver's seat of your of your recruiting process.
If you're wanting it to just happen magically for you, maybe it will, but you're taking achance and it's also so much of like so much of what I do now is a business owner.
(37:15):
I learned as a 16 year old going through the recruiting process and you're losing lifeskills.
That's my conversation with the parent.
The athlete doesn't necessarily think.
or care that they're losing life skills, but the parents do.
The parents understand where the value is being lost there.
So I just think it is so important that they are being proactive, that they understandwhere their best fit is, that they're reaching out to coaches as much as they can.
(37:42):
appreciate you sharing that so much.
It's so good that somebody's hearing it from somebody that's not me.
So thank you for sharing it.
On a similar note, in terms of just tackling misinformation in the recruiting process, andthis is from a newbie to a vet in this space, one of the things I was not prepared to have
to answer in the moment, just because I never thought of it, was explaining to a recruitand their family what being recruited actually looks like.
(38:13):
And not only have you done this longer than me and been in coaching spaces yourself, butalso you were a recruited scholarship level athlete.
So when someone asks you something as silly as, hey coach, how do I know if a school isactually interested in me?
Like, how do I know if a school is recruiting me?
(38:35):
What would you say to that?
like to say that the recruiting process when you are a parent or a high school athletefeels like you didn't get the passcode to get into the secret club.
You know, like you didn't get handed that password when really it's just an openrestaurant and you can just go in and take a seat.
(38:58):
It's it there's nuance to the process.
There's strategies to the process, but it's it's really a simple process when you break itdown.
If a coach is interested, they're going to tell you now there there's nuance.
If if you're not past that contact date and you can't have conversations with coaches,then you have to lean a little bit more on that.
(39:18):
You coach or somebody like us who can have more of those conversations for you on yourbehalf and kind of, you know, give you your better idea.
But if you are past that contact date, if a coach is really interested, they will tell youthey will make it explicitly explicitly clear.
Now caveat.
Coaches are notoriously terrible communicators.
(39:40):
Just, they're...
It's a job based on coaching and we're all bad at it.
We all have to communicate, we're all bad.
We're all bad.
It's a thing.
They're inundated with emails.
They get so many.
So yes, it's tough.
So that's another reason why it is so important to keep being proactive and keep reachingout.
(40:00):
I've had so many like athletes over the years say, how do I get a coach to give me a phonecall?
I say you ask them for a phone call.
What?
I can do that?
Yes, you can do that.
You can ask for the next step in the process.
So.
It's really, it's not a complicated thing.
If you're wondering if they're interested, they might not be.
(40:21):
But if they are just a bad communicator, like there's a little bit of grace there.
It definitely gets to the point, if we've had a phone call, if we've potentially been on avisit, if we've done a couple of steps and they're not responding at that point, it could
be disinterest.
It could also just be that they're not.
(40:42):
that great of an organization and then you have to decide as the athlete or the parent, isthis person valuing me?
Are they showing me that they're valuing me by not responding to my texts and notresponding to my emails?
It doesn't necessarily mean the coach has moved on, but I think there's a little bit of acost benefit ratio there that we have to kind of dissect.
(41:06):
This is another thing that almost brings us back to our fit at different levelsconversation earlier, because a lot of times what I've seen at least is maybe a high D3
kid or kid that ends up at a high D3 that has coaches all over them that want them oncampus, are having great conversations, but is behind the scenes saying, coach, hold on
one second.
(41:26):
I want to try to go D2, but then we find out that there's no D2s talking to the kid.
And the kid has to take the initiative every time just to get them to respond.
And what I try to explain is like, there's a fine line between a coach being like politeand courteous to you, but you've really never gotten beyond the yellow light on the
traffic light.
Like you're not in the green zone.
(41:46):
You're a yellow light for them.
And these people really want you.
And to your point earlier about being around the right people that are going to grow you.
Well, step one is the people that are going to grow you the most.
want you in the room with them.
Mm -hmm.
Is that something that transfers to volleyball as well where you're having those type ofconversations about like, hey, follow the heat here.
(42:12):
These people clearly want you.
a million percent like chase chase where you're valued like if a coach is telling you wewant you, you're going to be the kid here.
You know all those things you are going to be happier on that team.
You know external factors kind of excluded because there's a lot of things that go intothat but.
(42:35):
In my experience, you are going to be so much happier on that team than on the team withthe coach who you have to initiate every conversation and you have to remind them that
you're there and they're not giving you their time and you're not getting to know them ata personal level.
That's another thing.
Like coaches are personal people.
(42:55):
We're just personal people.
We want to get to know you.
So if a coach is not sharing who they are, if it's just kind of all at the surface.
That could be another kind of yellow light kind of situation where I feel like most of thecoaches that I know want to get to know the kid.
They want to get to know their families.
They want to ask some of the deeper questions beyond just.
(43:17):
What what do you what are you looking for?
You know?
will tell you this about myself because what you said resonated with me so much.
My office was filled with what most people would consider to be junk.
I had action figures from the movie Die Hard.
I had the animal from The Muppets.
(43:40):
I had a poster of Muhammad Ali.
I had posters of my favorite bands.
had that emotion is contagious.
I had my Spartan race medals.
I had that picture with my wife, which you know seems important if you're married I reallylike the picture and and I didn't have anything basketball related in my office and I had
(44:01):
a guitar and whenever somebody came into my office whether they were a recruit or anathlete They knew But there was no spoken thing.
They just knew I do not have to talk to this person about basketball to be in this spaceand
It was a mission critical goal for me, even at the Division I level, for them to know,hey, there's way more to this guy than the game of basketball.
(44:30):
And I'm sharing this with you because what you just said is so, so important that even atthe Division I level, when you are putting, that's your identity.
We'll say it that way.
That's your identity.
You are a student at.
You're not in other clubs.
Your club is the sport you're playing.
But even at that level, these people have lives and there's more to them than the So isn'tit important, coach, to find the people that are going to fit you the best?
(45:02):
one of the most important things you can do in your life.
Do you feel a weird way to make this conversation full circle?
Would that be the reason why you say you have no regrets about PC?
Because you found those people for you.
found those people I found myself.
know, it's like you just have no idea when you think you know you know everything and youthink you're king of the world.
(45:28):
You're senior in high school and it's like there's so much life that's about to hit youand you're going to be in control of your schedule and your timeline and I fiercely
fiercely messed a lot of things up.
While I was in college, I was irresponsible.
didn't make the best choices.
I didn't make great grades.
And you know, that first semester, it was a tough transition and there were a lot ofgrowing pains in that.
(45:51):
But because of that, I'm where I am today and I'm who I am today.
And I couldn't trade that for, you know, the entire world.
I'm so grateful that you shared that not only because it was so powerful to hear, but alsobecause wink, wink, nudge, nudge young people.
This is why we're doing what we're doing.
(46:11):
We, we want, we want you to find the place where you're going to turn into the best you,where when you are, I'm, you know, no hair on the top of your head and you have children
and the most athletic thing you could do is cure your own sciatica every morning.
We want you.
(46:32):
to be able to look back at your college experience and be like, boy, did I nail thatchoice.
And I messed up a lot of stuff, but I got that right.
That's what we're here to help you do.
Is that a fair way to summarize it?
I don't want to assign sciatica to you, by the way.
I, I did have that.
went to the trampoline park the other day with my kids and I still cannot walk great.
(46:55):
I'm not laughing.
I'm not laughing to judge you.
I promise Yeah, okay
I, I, and that's just kind of my personality.
I'm not here to watch my kids jump on a trampoline.
I'm, I'm on the trampoline with them.
We're going to go down the crazy slide and the zip line and all that.
and yeah, it is so much you, you think that once you commit to a school, you've made itwhen really that is the first step into this
(47:28):
life altering experience that is college for better for worse.
People have had terrible experiences at college and things affected them negatively orthey overcame that.
There's so much that goes on in college and, and where you choose to go and the people yousurround yourself with are going to affect how you transition into adulthood, which is
(47:51):
waiting for you on the other side of college, or maybe
You're like me and you put off becoming an adult and you go to grad school and you'relike, I'll figure it out a little bit more then, you know, but it is, it is very much, you
know, you're going to figure things out and it's just so worth putting the time and energyinto doing it well and doing it the right way.
(48:13):
one more question for you before we let you go.
this is in the second half of this season, I'm asking this question to everyone because Ithink each of them will answer it a little bit differently and add value.
But let's say we travel back in time, kind of.
It's like a Netflix retrofuturistic movie.
OK, you're Alison Brown again.
(48:33):
You're a high school sophomore, but it's the year 2024.
OK, so the only thing we know about about sophomore in 2024, Alison Brown.
is that she wants to play college volleyball.
Knowing everything you know now, how do you jumpstart your recruiting process as a 16 year
Woo, okay, let's do it.
(48:56):
The number one thing for me would be to go and see more schools before I started.
So I began seeing schools when I started my recruiting process and I very much thought Iwanted to play at the highest level and go to the biggest school and everything and my
first visit to a school was to Colorado State.
(49:19):
And I went there for a volleyball visit and I met the coach.
I met the team.
They were all super nice, but I walked around this campus and I was like, this is huge.
Huge.
And I felt like if I walked away right now, nobody would have known I was there except forthe coach and the players, obviously.
But, I, I think if I had.
(49:42):
just gone around, you know, I grew up in the North Texas area.
I should have gone and walked around UNT, North University of North Texas.
I should have walked around SMU.
I should have walked around Texas Wesleyan, which is an NAIA down there.
I should have walked around Austin College, a D3 that was, you know, very close.
If I had just started with that, I would have had a much better framework for what I wasopen to, what I wanted, what kind of campus vibe felt right for me.
(50:11):
As opposed to figuring that out while I'm having the conversations with college coaches,which puts a little bit more pressure in a little bit, you know, it almost feels like you
have less time to figure it out.
So that's number one is I would just go and experiment with like colleges that are in myarea just to, and it doesn't even have to be a volleyball visit.
It could just be an academic visitor, just walking around the campus.
I think that is, you know, so immensely important early on in the process to just kind offigure out what you want.
(50:38):
The second thing that I would do is I would have worked a lot harder on understanding mystrengths and weaknesses as a player because I wasn't incredibly self -aware as many
teenagers are not.
did I knew my strengths well.
I did not understand my weaknesses well.
So I I do think you know looking back I thought I was giving it my all.
(51:02):
I thought I was working as hard as possible, but really looking back I left.
a lot in the tank.
There were certain areas of my game where coaches told me, you're a middle, you don't needthat skill.
So they didn't coach me on that skill.
I didn't learn that skill.
I didn't try.
If I had tried, I could have been a different athlete.
You know, there's a lot of different pieces like that.
I wish I would have understood my strengths and weaknesses more and really, you know,worked hard to get better at my weaknesses instead of just saying, I won't do that since
(51:31):
I'm not good at that.
If that makes sense.
100%.
100%.
And I think it's funny because you just tackled, full circle again, awareness.
So, yep, the biggest thing I think you can do is get aware early, and I think you justmentioned two really critical areas.
(51:52):
Am I aware of the type of school that would resonate the most with me?
And I'm aware of my strengths and limitations, with an emphasis on limitations.
What might a college coach be looking at that like isn't so...
Isn't so good.
All right.
So coach, how do we find you?
Aside from the links that are going to be in the podcast description.
How do we, how do we find you coach?
Yeah, you can find me most of my stuff is on Instagram at how to get recruited.
(52:15):
I'm on TikTok at how to get recruited Twitter how to get recruited was too long.
So I'm HTG recruited on Twitter or X I'll never call it X.
It's Twitter.
I'm sorry And then I actually have my own podcast the how to get recruited podcast that Iwould love to have you on Jared and then I can put you in the hot seat and and flip this
(52:35):
around I know we we could probably talk about recruiting for six hours and not get tired.
So
As long as you can pledge to me that I will not have to sing for any longer than I did onthis podcast, I think we're in the clear.
will have to sing every answer the whole whole podcast Karaoke recruiting
(52:58):
rhyme because that's what I've been doing with the baby is like everything I say rhymes
Parenting changes you man, for the better, all the way around.
Absolutely.
it is done.
Well, this is this has been a blast.
So much great info.
And again, just thank you for all the support and thank you for just dropping thisincredible knowledge.
Have a great one, coach.
for having me, Jared.
(53:19):
Thank you.
Coach Allison, welcome.
Thanks for having me, Jared.
Excited to be here.
I am, I'm very excited to see you.
I've shared with our listeners that you've actually kind of been a mentor to me as I'vetried to figure out how to do this.
And for the, for the listener that might be wondering why, what is a, what's a volleyballcoach doing on the basketball podcast?
(00:25):
One of the first things we really learned was how universal a lot of the things we areteaching are and how commonplace a lot of what we're talking about is regardless of the
sport.
But I will start by asking you this because this is a question I ask all volleyballplayers because they tend to also be tall and athletic.
Did you ever play basketball?
(00:45):
I played one semester in seventh grade because my dad, my dad played like all the sportsand he was a pretty good basketball player so I played one semester in seventh grade.
I was 5 '10 in seventh grade so they just stuck me under the basket.
were like rebound get it out.
Don't try to dribble.
Don't try to shoot.
(01:06):
Probably don't try to run and talk.
Rebound get it out.
So I enjoyed the team aspect, but I also did not like people in my personal space.
That was my big bugaboo and a big reason why I chose volleyball.
There was a net between me and the opposing team, which I appreciated.
But I did love my one season.
I had a lot of fun.
(01:26):
I can respect that as someone that watches volleyball the lack of opponents in your faceaside from at the net is Yeah, but in a weird way I also feel like that puts a different
type of mental pressure on you like I had a very old -school coach growing up that hewould go around the room and Ask what's the hardest shot in basketball to make and his
(01:48):
answer was a wide open layup with nobody near you and then every time someone missed alayup he would like magically show up and just get in your ear and be like
That's the hardest shot in basketball to make.
So I can imagine like clamming up if I have opportunity to like bump it or set it with noone near me.
Right, is like each touch is all on you, but it is also like your contact affects the nextperson, affects the next person.
(02:14):
Yeah, there's so many similarities and differences in sports, but yeah, that's absolutelya big kicker is don't touch me.
Just do your thing, I'll do my thing.
I'm an excellent athlete as long as you are far away from me.
I love that.
track was my other sport that I competed in.
If you if you were gonna ask that question, that was my only other one.
(02:38):
This is honestly what we're talking about could also be like an incredible slogan forintroversion.
Like I am phenomenal at what I do as long as you are away from me, which is basically howI feel at the end of every day.
Which is funny because I'm an extrovert but it's like in trekking fields, so I did highjump, I did all the jumps, I high jump, long jump, triple jump, and it's like after you do
(03:03):
your jump you're just talking with all the other people, you're just shooting the breezelike, there's a bird over there, what's hard in middle school, you know, all that fun
stuff so it's funny how that kind of plays out.
So we have a lot of similar experiences and it's important right off the rip for anybodylistening to be able to get to know you a little bit.
So you spend a lot of time coaching your former athlete.
(03:27):
We'll talk a little bit more about both of those endeavors later, but just to get started,what led you to start how to get recruited and, you know, be a guide to mentor young
athletes through the volleyball recruiting process?
How did that get started for you?
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I love sport from a very young age.
I was always interested in athletics.
(03:49):
I was always interested in challenging myself to figure things out just physically on thejungle gym, on, you know, God help me the basketball court, wherever I was.
I wanted to do the best that I could.
So I clung to volleyball.
Volleyball was my favorite.
Played in high school.
I played in college.
And I played when I was a high schooler.
(04:10):
It was kind of that age when I was a sophomore.
where it was that time where it was like, okay, I'm pretty good.
I was playing on a lower level team.
Do I want the big club experience?
Like was kind of making those choices.
And I did choose to play for, you know, one of the top clubs in the country that's in theDallas, Texas area.
And I played for that club and it was, you know, a great experience.
(04:32):
I loved my time.
I loved playing at high level.
And that's when kind of the recruiting conversations came up of, you want to play incollege?
I never wanted to stop playing so was like, heck yeah, I want to keep playing as long as Ican.
And they had some seminars, they had a recruiting coordinator, but they didn't necessarilylike walk you through the process, they weren't necessarily guiding you.
(04:58):
you know, thank God I did wind up at a school that I loved, I had an amazing collegeexperience, I wouldn't change it for the world, but looking back are there things that I
would do differently in my recruiting process?
Absolutely.
And it was kind of one of those things where you're just throwing spaghetti at a wallseeing what stuck.
And that's kind of what my recruiting process looked like and it did work out.
(05:21):
But I definitely wanted someone to bounce ideas off of and be like, you know, there's over2000 colleges with women's volleyball.
I don't know the exact numbers for basketball.
I would assume it's pretty similar.
Yeah, it's like...
Where do I start?
You know, like you start at the big schools, the places that you've heard of, all that.
(05:41):
But at the end of day, it goes so much deeper than that.
I, you know, after applying in college, I coached in college for six years and ended upbecoming a military spouse.
And I met my husband.
We had three kids in three years and just, we were in a place where coaching in collegedid not make sense for our family.
So I stepped into the club game and became a recruiting coordinator for a local club thatwe were at in Tennessee at the time.
(06:08):
And I was like, I want to help with recruiting.
I need to help with recruiting.
love recruiting.
I kind of missed it, honestly.
That was my favorite part of coaching in college was the recruiting process.
So I was happy to help.
I held a couple seminars for my club.
And after a seminar, a senior in March would come up to me and be like,
(06:29):
What should an email look like?
Or, you know, how do I get a college coach to call me?
And I'm like, you call them, what are you talking about?
You know, just simple things that I was like, how has nobody broken this down for you?
So, it was at that point that I was like, there's something there.
And then one day I read a blog from a big recruiting website about why parents should nothelp.
(06:58):
their student athlete playing college.
And it was very, it was pretty much a fear mongering feel of a blog.
it was like, parents don't know what to say.
And you know, they have unrealistic expectations for their athletes and you know, allthese things.
And I was, I was so angry after reading it.
(07:18):
I was like, so tell them, help them.
You know what?
You teach them.
Why are, why is it, why is it that?
So I,
You know, that day is when I opened up my Instagram account for how to get recruited andit's just kind of grown and developed and it's been an amazing blessing and gift to me.
I absolutely love what I do and I wouldn't change it for the world.
(07:39):
So that's kind of my origin story.
imagine with where you are now, like I imagine when you started this, did you have anyexpectation that it's like, this is gonna be my full -time thing and I am gonna be like
the go -to person in the volleyball recruiting consulting space?
Like did you have any vision of that when you set out to do this?
(08:00):
didn't even know what it was.
I thought I was gonna be like a recruiting influencer.
I don't know, I just kinda started talking about it.
And it just kinda grew and developed with my personality and with the personalities of myathletes that I was working with.
And a lot of people who would reach out and say, hey, I wanna know about this.
I was like, okay, I'll tell you about this.
(08:21):
So yeah, I had no clue how it would grow.
It's been...
It's been amazing, you know, it's it's not by my own power I'm so thankful for all mypeople in my support system, but it's been really fun to watch it
Very, very cool.
And it's funny to hear about your origins from that blog because I don't think, I thinkthe only person in my orbit that really gets this about what I'm doing now is my wife.
(08:47):
And I wonder if you have the same thing with your husband where like, when my wife listensto the conversations I'm having, she would look at anybody else and be like, yeah, you
still coaching.
I wonder, is that a similar thing that you feel?
Like, do you feel like you coach the recruiting process right now?
Yeah, so I was always Coach Allison.
(09:08):
When I was playing in college, I started coaching club.
I was Coach Allison.
I was Coach Allison when I was a college coach, and my recruits that I work with stillcall me Coach Allison.
So yeah, it is very much coaching.
It's similar conversations.
It's just different goals and different kind of tactics to get you to those goals.
(09:29):
Yep.
All right.
So our goal now, Coach Allison, our goal is to sort of drive these fences together.
And I want you as much as possible, you and I are going to approach the rest of thisconversation thinking about all sports in mind and just the best ways for recruits to put
their foot forward, things that stood out to you about your own process.
(09:51):
And we're going to focus on the transferable things.
And I think the best place for us to start with that is your own college experience.
So
I believe I want to make sure I have this right.
You graduated in 2013.
Yes.
Okay, so you go to play D1 volleyball at Presbyterian just as they become a Division 1school.
(10:14):
So that's a very unique recruiting process.
Having gone through that process yourself and now that you've seen so many otherprocesses, are there certain parts about your own process when you look back at it?
You alluded to some of it in your first response.
Were there any things that really surprised you that you think are worth sharing with arecruiter, their parents that are listening now?
(10:34):
yeah, so much we can make an entire podcast just off of that question, honestly.
Yeah, again, and I'll always preface, I absolutely love PC.
It is an amazing place, amazing people.
It was really the people is why I went there at the end of the day and I would not changeit for the world.
But yes, as a 16, 17 year old going through this process, you're going to be looking at itthrough a different lens.
(10:58):
And if you had asked me that same question,
right after I graduated in 2013, I would give you a different answer than I would give younow.
It's funny to look back and think why did I choose this school?
And I say it's the people and that's 100 % what it was.
But when I look at the other offers that I had on the table, I was just talking with mymom about this the other day because the memory's a little fuzzy.
(11:25):
And I'm like, do I remember this correctly?
And just thinking through my different visits, like I had a lot of
different schools that I was talking to.
I wasn't tied down to a location.
My dad's a pilot.
I always loved traveling.
I was kind of up for whatever.
And so I saw a lot of different types of schools, different places, different coaches,different styles.
And, you know, I think one thing that I would maybe go back and change potentially if Icould is I was offered a walk -on position from my top school.
(11:56):
They were my number one school in
the whole process kind of start to finish kind of thing.
And they offered me a walk on position and my 16 year old ears heard you're not valuablebecause they were not offering scholarship.
And I think it's something, I don't know where the stigma started, the whole D1 stigma andthe whole full ride.
(12:19):
There's a big stigma tied to that.
And so that was my goal was D1 full ride.
You know, I was pretty flexible on all the other details, but those were the main thingsthat I wanted.
And I think looking back, this school had everything I was looking for.
It was in a great location.
It was a good medium -sized school, amazing coaches, amazing people, great campus, goodfacilities.
(12:43):
You know, I walked away from the conversation of here's a walk -on position.
I said, no, thank you, not interested.
And looking back, I'm like, I should have engaged with that.
I should have looked at different scholarship options at the university, academics, know,different kinds of things.
So that's definitely a big one that I would walk back and have a conversation with myyounger self.
(13:06):
think about this a lot.
And, you know, funny thing about us building a relationship over social media is we havebehind the scenes commented on some of the stuff that we have posted.
And one of the things that seems to be a big, I'll call it red flag for both of us isdisillusionment about fit.
(13:28):
And if I were if I were to interpret what you just shared, to me it is I see this placethat
was basically waving its giant inflatable arms at me and saying, I am the perfect fit foryou, but I was very worried about the status part of it and how that interferes with the
goals that I set in my head.
Is that a fair way of transcribing?
(13:50):
Okay.
it.
I don't want to get too ahead of ourselves, but could we potentially agree that that ismaybe one of the biggest challenges that you and I face with our clientele day to day?
between stigma around different levels and the stigma behind scholarship, 100%.
(14:13):
I would say those are two super common conversations I've had.
So between the two of us, we have literally coached at every level of the NCAA, everylevel of the NCAA, you have the NAIA.
And I guess a listener with, that's an alumnus of a USCAA school, I guess could complainabout this, but I'm willing to forego that and say, we've got our bases covered.
(14:43):
And I want to talk about this because
I feel like you probably had to dispel a lot of that, not only during your time coachingat a great D2, but also in steering recruits towards D2 or lower.
And I was constantly looking at these recruits at the D3 level that were adamant abouttrying to go D1.
(15:04):
And I would watch them go to camps and like the messaging that you're a perfect fit for ahigh D3 was smacking them in the face.
And they were still trying to go D1 and
felt like I was not in the right position to ask why as a Division III coach, right?
Because of course I'm going to ask why as a Division III coach.
It's in my best interest to recruit the But now that you and I are not doing that anymore,it's a good opportunity to break that down.
(15:34):
So let's start with Southwestern Oklahoma State.
Mm
great school, great facilities, and I'm going to ask this just so that I don't come off ascondescending.
But let's just say hypothetically, I put you guys up against a low, mid -major, Division Ischool.
(15:57):
Who wins?
today or back when I was a player slash coach.
But it would it.
I'd pay to watch the game either way.
It would be tight.
You know my first year there.
Definitely a growing year.
My second year.
(16:18):
We started doing it the year after I left, so all the recruits that I brought in.
They won the conference championship and they would have beaten a lot of the division oneschools that I.
played against and were in my conference at PC.
In both of my Division I coaching experiences, on the men's side and the women's side, Iwatched a Division II scrimmage where the Division II team gave the Division I team the
(16:44):
business.
It happens all the time, all the time.
And I don't think enough, and I really want you to fill in the blanks here, because I'mabout to explain this super poorly.
That's a great thing for a podcast host to say, by the way.
I think people look at divisions as tiers, just going linear, where they should look atthem a little bit more like a Venn diagram that kind of stacks, where like you've got your
(17:11):
D2 and you got your D1, but then you have this area in the middle.
where, and there's been research on this, like the top 20 % of D2 is outspending thebottom 20 % of D1.
So it's full scholarships for their top athletes, it's better facilities, full coachingstaffs, and there's still kids that would get so hung up on the fact, that's not D1.
(17:38):
What do you say to that kid?
I say a lot to that kid and this is this is why we get along so well, Jared.
I literally I'll share with you a PDF I have of a different scale that is exactly what youjust explained.
This is why this is why we get each other.
It's just it's so much more than your sport.
(17:58):
You know, it's so much more than your sport.
Really like why I coached at SWOSU is kind of the acronym for it.
Why I coach there is because of the people.
Why I chose PC was because of the people.
I genuinely think one of the most powerful things that you can do in your life is surroundyourself with people who are going to bring the best out of you and who are going to make
(18:21):
you better.
Sports, academics, work, whatever it is, you have to, you can't, you can't do any of thison your own.
And I, for the athletes who are so hung up on D1, number one, I ask them why, why D1?
And sometimes they give me a good answer.
I think a fair answer is I want to compete with the best.
(18:45):
That's that's fair.
Absolutely.
And then to that, I always say, OK, well, tell me about some D2 games that you've watched.
Have you seen a D3 practice is my buzz one?
Yep.
Like tell me why you have this category and kind of this firm line in your mind and youknow, I respect it.
(19:07):
It's fine.
And I think there are, you know, some athletes who are physically at the point where likeD1 is just, you know, a good fit and they want to eat, breathe, sleep, volleyball, or you
know, whatever their sport is.
And to those kids, say, OK, let's go for it.
But to pretty much every other athlete, I'm like, we should not just be honing in on onelevel.
(19:28):
If D1 is your goal, that's great.
That's awesome.
Like, let's talk about it.
But we can't just be honing in on D1 schools because I can't tell you how many athletes inmy time I've seen.
D1, D1, D1.
No, I'm not talking to the D2.
No, I'm not talking to the Juco, the D3.
I'm D1, D1.
Late in your senior year.
(19:50):
And they're like, this is not working out.
I'll just go to a big school and, you know, enjoy my student life.
And it's like that's the right choice for some people.
But I so wish the athletes would just try it because it's it's no commitment to you tosend an email to a school.
It's no commitment to you to pick up the phone and talk to a school.
(20:14):
You're not committing.
You know when you get to that point, then you can decide is it the right fit is D2 theright fit is you know the scholarship everything else.
But up until that point just have the phone call you know.
So hear what they have to say.
Cause yeah, the facilities at Swasu are insane.
I I played Division one.
(20:35):
I played it a small Division one, not great facilities.
They've gotten better, but I played against.
A lot of the big schools we played at Arizona, we played at Illinois State, we played at alot of big schools with great facilities.
Swassu has just as good.
Bless you.
(20:56):
We'll, we'll truck right past it.
Swassu has better facilities than a lot of those major division one programs I playedagainst.
It's not as big, but it's nicer.
and it's a way bigger stadium than I played in as a D1 athlete.
And it's, if I had seen that, if I had physically gone to campus and seen that as a highschool athlete, you would have had my interest.
(21:20):
Absolutely.
And I think to myself, by the way, I truly believe that saying swasu so many times is whatgot me to sneeze.
It's close enough to a sneezing sound.
Yeah, see, you, yes.
My thought around this is so much of missteps in the recruiting process is due to a lackof, I guess we'll call it awareness.
(21:47):
How well do I know myself?
How well do I know my options?
So I think about your transition from coaching at the collegiate level to now running aclub.
This is something I have not done.
Someone has asked me recently how, like if I would consider doing it and right now I haveno.
I just like, there's too many dynamics to club basketball.
I don't know how it compares to club volleyball, but I imagine that you might've had somestubborn heifers during your time working at the club level.
(22:17):
Mm
Is it possible, and this is more for the sake of our listeners than for me, because I betI know the answer, but is it possible that you've tried to direct some people that really
weren't hearing it, that were adamant that it was going to work out some way and maybethey really were not in touch with the amount of work it took to accomplish that, and then
(22:37):
all of a sudden they stop playing the game that they love and they're looking back withregret?
Have you seen that story coaching at the club level?
Yes, so many times.
think more athletes and I think they're the stigma is changing a little bit.
I think more athletes are understanding the options and it you know, it's so multifacetedbecause there's more athletes playing club sports than ever before.
(23:06):
There's more competition for it and the spots aren't increasing at the college level, butthe athletes who are fighting for those spots are increasing so.
the way that they go about the process has changed dramatically.
And I think more athletes are understanding, I love the sport.
(23:26):
That's the core of why I want to keep playing.
Yes, I do want to play D1 and that's great, but really I don't want to stop playing mysport.
Or I've been working with a lot of athletes who are interested in the medical field.
Tons of athletes are interested in working in the medical field, which I love.
And doing that at the division one level is hard, really hard.
(23:50):
If you're doing pre -med, if you want to do nursing, I've had coaches tell me, we don'ttake nursing students because it doesn't work once you get to clinicals.
You have to miss a lot of practices, potentially games.
There's just a lot of conflict there.
So I think more athletes are getting it and understanding it.
It's a big picture thing.
Like let's zoom out past the D1 and let's look for some other things that are importantand valuable and are going to set you up for success after college.
(24:19):
Cause at the end of the day, that's what this is all about.
Even though we love our sport and even though we're gonna learn so much through it, it'sbigger than just the sport itself.
So is it fair to say that a good portion of your why can be sort of reduced down to, lovethis sport, you love this sport, I want to see you play this sport at the next level in
(24:44):
the place that's best for you so that you can take what this sport has to teach you at thenext level?
Is that sort of the relationship you wanna have with your clients?
Absolutely.
And that's why when I do work one -on -one with athletes, I watch their film, I go totheir games.
I, I'm not blind to it.
And that's important to have someone watching your film to give you the feedback of, yeah,D1 is within your reach or we need, we need to rework that and really kind of hone in on
(25:14):
where coaches are going to be excited to get back in touch with you because
There's also the subsection of athletes who maybe they could play D1, but they're going tobe filling a roster spot or they're going to be sitting the bench for two, three, four
years.
And I personally have never met an athlete who was happy in that role.
(25:37):
that that's another reason why I chose Presbyterian is because I wanted to play.
Like I, I had never been a bench player.
I even as a coach, it was hard to be on the bench, even though I had to, I legallycouldn't.
so that was a big reason why I chose that is there was playing time that was, you know,prepped and ready.
Nothing's guaranteed, but it was there.
(25:58):
And, and, and I knew that when I was making that decision.
So I think, you know, I think it's just, yes, I love the sport.
Yes.
I want to see athletes succeed.
You know, athletics has so much to teach athletes about life, about who they are.
I think the college age, the big thing that drew me there is.
(26:19):
people are figuring out who they are.
I had no idea who I was, was what I was going to do when I was going into college.
And I figured that out and I figured it out a lot after college too.
But I think there's just so much with those athletes where they're figuring out who theywant to be.
And I think athletics is going to teach them a lot of those life lessons ofresponsibility, of work ethic, of, you know, character, you know, just a million things
(26:47):
that they're learning.
And at the same time, they're getting a great education so that they can do what they wantto do after college, whatever that looks like.
So you just said something that resonated with me in your response, which is that people'sjourney towards the next level is so multifaceted and their whys could be so different.
(27:13):
And it's kind of a responsibility that we take down, take on ourselves, excuse me, to likehelp them find that lie.
I wanna call your attention to a specific archetype of athlete.
And that archetype of athlete is the quote unquote late bloomer.
Something that I deal with a lot, and I imagine this is something you experience as well,is the kid that is doing everything correctly, but either their game is not flashy enough,
(27:46):
their game has not developed enough, or the places that they're targeting, they havepotential to ultimately get attention from, but where they are right now.
Mm -hmm.
getting that attention.
And those are the kids that I have, like I would say the softest spot for, because I knowthat if they stick with it, they will ultimately be successful.
(28:09):
Conversely, those are the hardest kids to convince to stick with it.
And I would love to know what your experience has been like with those late bloomers.
And I'll give you a follow -up after we talk about that a little bit.
So.
Yeah.
had exposure to that kind of kid and what's it been?
Yeah, there's a lot of those kids and you know when I coached at the NAI level, I got alot of Juco kids who.
(28:35):
You know, Juco is such a great option for late bloomers because you need a couple moreyears to and you have to have the right coach at your Juco who's going to pour into you
and develop you and all of that.
So yeah, lots of those in my time as a college coach and lots of those right now as arecruiter.
And I think a lot of those athletes will have.
(28:57):
these goals and dreams of the big school and whatever situation and so much of that wehave to.
It's a fine balance between pushing them to be the best they can and also the realisticwhere you are now, because there are other athletes where you are now, but they're here
(29:19):
and those are the athletes that are being recruited by those bigger schools.
So if you are starting in a lower
starting point and there are other athletes who are playing better than you or they'retaller or they jump higher or they've just been at it longer, whatever it is, you have to
have intangibles.
(29:40):
have to have other characteristics better than they do.
Your work ethic has to be twice what theirs is, within the realm of reason and within therealm of expenses and energy and time and all that.
But if you are a late bloomer, you have to wear that chip on your shoulder and reallychallenge yourself to see what you're capable of.
(30:01):
And if you're not willing to do that, we're never going to see what you're fully capableof.
And you can, you could still go play in college, like where you're at right now.
My philosophy is there's a place for everyone.
You know, there's really great college athletics.
There's really bad college athletics and there's everything in between.
So I really believe wherever you're at, there's somewhere that you can play.
(30:26):
Can hear me?
Sorry.
Cut a cut out for a second.
time -stopped.
The last thing I heard you say was, wherever you are, there is somewhere that you canplay.
Was the last thing I heard you said.
okay, perfect.
So yeah, it's really with those athletes who are the late bloomers, they have to make achoice if they want the grit, if they want the hard work, or if they're comfortable with
(30:48):
where they're at.
And that's good enough.
You just handed me a dynamite segue coach.
So you have an athlete that's a late bloomer.
You've given them that choice and they look back at you and they say, all right, coach,I'm going to stick with it.
What's your advice to that kid?
get in the weight room on it.
(31:08):
Honestly, like so many when I think about the athletes I'm working with now and I haveworked with honestly so much of it is just like athleticism and strength and vertical
because God gave you what it gave you.
You're as tall as you are.
You know we can't change that, but you can jump higher.
(31:29):
You can get faster genuinely doing the right things in the weight room and eat.
Nutrition like those two things.
You don't have to be perfect.
Enjoy your life.
Be a kid.
You know all that.
But if you are fueling your body the right way before and after workouts and you areputting all that effort in, you're going to grow leaps and bounds and the younger the
(31:51):
athlete is, the further they can go if they are working with that work ethic for thoseperiods of time.
So it's keep your eye on the prize.
It's it's a it's called a grind for a reason, right?
It's not.
It's not easy or everybody would do it, but if they are willing to work, those are the,those are the biggest things for me.
(32:11):
I that.
is, I don't want to share too much, but a hilarious thing that you do not know.
I just had a conversation with someone who I think has the potential to be a Division Iathlete that will be a late bloomer, and the very first thing I said to her was, you gotta
do strength and conditioning.
So, that is insane and amazing, and there you go, more evidence that volleyball andbasketball are very similar.
(32:38):
So,
You know, I grew up a big Billy Joel fan and Billy Joel famously says in his song,Sleeping With The Television on, I really wish I was less of a thinking man and more a
fool who's not afraid of rejection.
And I now think of that line.
I, okay, I'll give it a whirl.
(32:58):
I really wish I was less of a thinking man and more a fool who's not afraid of rejectionall night long.
Okay, I'm going to stop now, but thank you.
Thank you for indulging me.
think of that song every time I say to a kid have you reached out to any college coachesand they reply back
(33:21):
Mm -hmm.
And I've told myself this story that I think it's a fear -based thing that like these kidsdon't want to be ignored by college coaches.
They don't want to hear no.
So they kind of do the ostrich defense.
If I put my head in the sand and I do nothing, I think I won't get hurt.
Is that a fair hypothesis?
(33:42):
Would you think that is the big thing that drives kids not wanting to reach out to collegecoaches?
It is either fear of rejection or it's laziness.
Mmm.
I don't see a third option.
It's not knowing your self worth or just not wanting to do the work and expecting it to bedone for you.
(34:05):
And I think there's athletes in both camps and I think that there's athletes who have beentold coaches will contact you or you're good enough that you'll get discovered and yeah,
maybe.
But if you take that stance, you're going to get a handful of schools who are interestedin you as opposed to
being proactive and reaching out and creating success for yourself, then you're in thedriver's seat and you get to control, you know, who, gets a hold of your film.
(34:34):
I certainly don't want to give away all of your trade secrets for free, but okay, okay.
That's your bit.
Hey, you know what?
I was given similar business advice, so that's fine.
But I do want to know, because I'm curious as to how similar we sound, especially indifferent sports, for the kid that's really reluctant to do that, that really believes
(34:55):
that this is going to come to them or has that fear of rejection, what is your pitch tothem?
What is your like, I need you to do this because?
Well, first of all, those athletes are usually not working with me because the athleteswho want the athletes who are coming to me who need help want to do the work.
(35:18):
You know, I've had maybe a couple of athletes my whole time doing this that it was like,come on, you have, you know, I I'm trying to help you, but I can't do it all for you, you
know.
So for the kid who says I'm good enough, I'm, whatever.
If they're past that June 15th date, I ask them, okay, who have you heard from?
(35:39):
You know, if we haven't heard from coaches and it's past that contact date, it doesn'tlook like your strategy is working right now.
Would you like a strategy that works?
You know, so that's number one.
Number two is, you know, what does your network look like?
Because that's another, you know, we've got, so there's so many myths in the recruitingprocess.
(36:04):
Another one is that your coach will,
You know, I know that's a big thing for basketball, a little bit bigger than volleyball.
My, my cousin actually played collegiate basketball and he's a trainer.
should connect you guys.
but yeah, he, he kind of has, has filled me in a little bit that there's kind of almost anexpectation of your, coach to kind of, you know, have those conversations sometimes and
(36:25):
get you recruited.
thing.
If high level AAU coaches essentially have to prove to their clientele that they can be aliaison.
I don't actually like that as much because then what ends up happening, I hate to drive atangent here, but what ends up happening is then that AAU coach exclusively sends kids D1
so that they can build that clientele list whether that kid's a D1 kid or not.
(36:48):
And then they transfer.
Okay, sorry, I digress.
Continue, continue.
No, that's, that's absolutely.
so yeah, it's, it's just like.
I don't know, you know we we got.
We gotta try something different.
You gotta be in the driver's seat of your of your recruiting process.
If you're wanting it to just happen magically for you, maybe it will, but you're taking achance and it's also so much of like so much of what I do now is a business owner.
(37:15):
I learned as a 16 year old going through the recruiting process and you're losing lifeskills.
That's my conversation with the parent.
The athlete doesn't necessarily think.
or care that they're losing life skills, but the parents do.
The parents understand where the value is being lost there.
So I just think it is so important that they are being proactive, that they understandwhere their best fit is, that they're reaching out to coaches as much as they can.
(37:42):
appreciate you sharing that so much.
It's so good that somebody's hearing it from somebody that's not me.
So thank you for sharing it.
On a similar note, in terms of just tackling misinformation in the recruiting process, andthis is from a newbie to a vet in this space, one of the things I was not prepared to have
to answer in the moment, just because I never thought of it, was explaining to a recruitand their family what being recruited actually looks like.
(38:13):
And not only have you done this longer than me and been in coaching spaces yourself, butalso you were a recruited scholarship level athlete.
So when someone asks you something as silly as, hey coach, how do I know if a school isactually interested in me?
Like, how do I know if a school is recruiting me?
(38:35):
What would you say to that?
like to say that the recruiting process when you are a parent or a high school athletefeels like you didn't get the passcode to get into the secret club.
You know, like you didn't get handed that password when really it's just an openrestaurant and you can just go in and take a seat.
(38:58):
It's it there's nuance to the process.
There's strategies to the process, but it's it's really a simple process when you break itdown.
If a coach is interested, they're going to tell you now there there's nuance.
If if you're not past that contact date and you can't have conversations with coaches,then you have to lean a little bit more on that.
(39:18):
You coach or somebody like us who can have more of those conversations for you on yourbehalf and kind of, you know, give you your better idea.
But if you are past that contact date, if a coach is really interested, they will tell youthey will make it explicitly explicitly clear.
Now caveat.
Coaches are notoriously terrible communicators.
(39:40):
Just, they're...
It's a job based on coaching and we're all bad at it.
We all have to communicate, we're all bad.
We're all bad.
It's a thing.
They're inundated with emails.
They get so many.
So yes, it's tough.
So that's another reason why it is so important to keep being proactive and keep reachingout.
(40:00):
I've had so many like athletes over the years say, how do I get a coach to give me a phonecall?
I say you ask them for a phone call.
What?
I can do that?
Yes, you can do that.
You can ask for the next step in the process.
So.
It's really, it's not a complicated thing.
If you're wondering if they're interested, they might not be.
(40:21):
But if they are just a bad communicator, like there's a little bit of grace there.
It definitely gets to the point, if we've had a phone call, if we've potentially been on avisit, if we've done a couple of steps and they're not responding at that point, it could
be disinterest.
It could also just be that they're not.
(40:42):
that great of an organization and then you have to decide as the athlete or the parent, isthis person valuing me?
Are they showing me that they're valuing me by not responding to my texts and notresponding to my emails?
It doesn't necessarily mean the coach has moved on, but I think there's a little bit of acost benefit ratio there that we have to kind of dissect.
(41:06):
This is another thing that almost brings us back to our fit at different levelsconversation earlier, because a lot of times what I've seen at least is maybe a high D3
kid or kid that ends up at a high D3 that has coaches all over them that want them oncampus, are having great conversations, but is behind the scenes saying, coach, hold on
one second.
(41:26):
I want to try to go D2, but then we find out that there's no D2s talking to the kid.
And the kid has to take the initiative every time just to get them to respond.
And what I try to explain is like, there's a fine line between a coach being like politeand courteous to you, but you've really never gotten beyond the yellow light on the
traffic light.
Like you're not in the green zone.
(41:46):
You're a yellow light for them.
And these people really want you.
And to your point earlier about being around the right people that are going to grow you.
Well, step one is the people that are going to grow you the most.
want you in the room with them.
Mm -hmm.
Is that something that transfers to volleyball as well where you're having those type ofconversations about like, hey, follow the heat here.
(42:12):
These people clearly want you.
a million percent like chase chase where you're valued like if a coach is telling you wewant you, you're going to be the kid here.
You know all those things you are going to be happier on that team.
You know external factors kind of excluded because there's a lot of things that go intothat but.
(42:35):
In my experience, you are going to be so much happier on that team than on the team withthe coach who you have to initiate every conversation and you have to remind them that
you're there and they're not giving you their time and you're not getting to know them ata personal level.
That's another thing.
Like coaches are personal people.
(42:55):
We're just personal people.
We want to get to know you.
So if a coach is not sharing who they are, if it's just kind of all at the surface.
That could be another kind of yellow light kind of situation where I feel like most of thecoaches that I know want to get to know the kid.
They want to get to know their families.
They want to ask some of the deeper questions beyond just.
(43:17):
What what do you what are you looking for?
You know?
will tell you this about myself because what you said resonated with me so much.
My office was filled with what most people would consider to be junk.
I had action figures from the movie Die Hard.
I had the animal from The Muppets.
(43:40):
I had a poster of Muhammad Ali.
I had posters of my favorite bands.
had that emotion is contagious.
I had my Spartan race medals.
I had that picture with my wife, which you know seems important if you're married I reallylike the picture and and I didn't have anything basketball related in my office and I had
(44:01):
a guitar and whenever somebody came into my office whether they were a recruit or anathlete They knew But there was no spoken thing.
They just knew I do not have to talk to this person about basketball to be in this spaceand
It was a mission critical goal for me, even at the Division I level, for them to know,hey, there's way more to this guy than the game of basketball.
(44:30):
And I'm sharing this with you because what you just said is so, so important that even atthe Division I level, when you are putting, that's your identity.
We'll say it that way.
That's your identity.
You are a student at.
You're not in other clubs.
Your club is the sport you're playing.
But even at that level, these people have lives and there's more to them than the So isn'tit important, coach, to find the people that are going to fit you the best?
(45:02):
one of the most important things you can do in your life.
Do you feel a weird way to make this conversation full circle?
Would that be the reason why you say you have no regrets about PC?
Because you found those people for you.
found those people I found myself.
know, it's like you just have no idea when you think you know you know everything and youthink you're king of the world.
(45:28):
You're senior in high school and it's like there's so much life that's about to hit youand you're going to be in control of your schedule and your timeline and I fiercely
fiercely messed a lot of things up.
While I was in college, I was irresponsible.
didn't make the best choices.
I didn't make great grades.
And you know, that first semester, it was a tough transition and there were a lot ofgrowing pains in that.
(45:51):
But because of that, I'm where I am today and I'm who I am today.
And I couldn't trade that for, you know, the entire world.
I'm so grateful that you shared that not only because it was so powerful to hear, but alsobecause wink, wink, nudge, nudge young people.
This is why we're doing what we're doing.
(46:11):
We, we want, we want you to find the place where you're going to turn into the best you,where when you are, I'm, you know, no hair on the top of your head and you have children
and the most athletic thing you could do is cure your own sciatica every morning.
We want you.
(46:32):
to be able to look back at your college experience and be like, boy, did I nail thatchoice.
And I messed up a lot of stuff, but I got that right.
That's what we're here to help you do.
Is that a fair way to summarize it?
I don't want to assign sciatica to you, by the way.
I, I did have that.
went to the trampoline park the other day with my kids and I still cannot walk great.
(46:55):
I'm not laughing.
I'm not laughing to judge you.
I promise Yeah, okay
I, I, and that's just kind of my personality.
I'm not here to watch my kids jump on a trampoline.
I'm, I'm on the trampoline with them.
We're going to go down the crazy slide and the zip line and all that.
and yeah, it is so much you, you think that once you commit to a school, you've made itwhen really that is the first step into this
(47:28):
life altering experience that is college for better for worse.
People have had terrible experiences at college and things affected them negatively orthey overcame that.
There's so much that goes on in college and, and where you choose to go and the people yousurround yourself with are going to affect how you transition into adulthood, which is
(47:51):
waiting for you on the other side of college, or maybe
You're like me and you put off becoming an adult and you go to grad school and you'relike, I'll figure it out a little bit more then, you know, but it is, it is very much, you
know, you're going to figure things out and it's just so worth putting the time and energyinto doing it well and doing it the right way.
(48:13):
one more question for you before we let you go.
this is in the second half of this season, I'm asking this question to everyone because Ithink each of them will answer it a little bit differently and add value.
But let's say we travel back in time, kind of.
It's like a Netflix retrofuturistic movie.
OK, you're Alison Brown again.
(48:33):
You're a high school sophomore, but it's the year 2024.
OK, so the only thing we know about about sophomore in 2024, Alison Brown.
is that she wants to play college volleyball.
Knowing everything you know now, how do you jumpstart your recruiting process as a 16 year
Woo, okay, let's do it.
(48:56):
The number one thing for me would be to go and see more schools before I started.
So I began seeing schools when I started my recruiting process and I very much thought Iwanted to play at the highest level and go to the biggest school and everything and my
first visit to a school was to Colorado State.
(49:19):
And I went there for a volleyball visit and I met the coach.
I met the team.
They were all super nice, but I walked around this campus and I was like, this is huge.
Huge.
And I felt like if I walked away right now, nobody would have known I was there except forthe coach and the players, obviously.
But, I, I think if I had.
(49:42):
just gone around, you know, I grew up in the North Texas area.
I should have gone and walked around UNT, North University of North Texas.
I should have walked around SMU.
I should have walked around Texas Wesleyan, which is an NAIA down there.
I should have walked around Austin College, a D3 that was, you know, very close.
If I had just started with that, I would have had a much better framework for what I wasopen to, what I wanted, what kind of campus vibe felt right for me.
(50:11):
As opposed to figuring that out while I'm having the conversations with college coaches,which puts a little bit more pressure in a little bit, you know, it almost feels like you
have less time to figure it out.
So that's number one is I would just go and experiment with like colleges that are in myarea just to, and it doesn't even have to be a volleyball visit.
It could just be an academic visitor, just walking around the campus.
I think that is, you know, so immensely important early on in the process to just kind offigure out what you want.
(50:38):
The second thing that I would do is I would have worked a lot harder on understanding mystrengths and weaknesses as a player because I wasn't incredibly self -aware as many
teenagers are not.
did I knew my strengths well.
I did not understand my weaknesses well.
So I I do think you know looking back I thought I was giving it my all.
(51:02):
I thought I was working as hard as possible, but really looking back I left.
a lot in the tank.
There were certain areas of my game where coaches told me, you're a middle, you don't needthat skill.
So they didn't coach me on that skill.
I didn't learn that skill.
I didn't try.
If I had tried, I could have been a different athlete.
You know, there's a lot of different pieces like that.
I wish I would have understood my strengths and weaknesses more and really, you know,worked hard to get better at my weaknesses instead of just saying, I won't do that since
(51:31):
I'm not good at that.
If that makes sense.
100%.
100%.
And I think it's funny because you just tackled, full circle again, awareness.
So, yep, the biggest thing I think you can do is get aware early, and I think you justmentioned two really critical areas.
(51:52):
Am I aware of the type of school that would resonate the most with me?
And I'm aware of my strengths and limitations, with an emphasis on limitations.
What might a college coach be looking at that like isn't so...
Isn't so good.
All right.
So coach, how do we find you?
Aside from the links that are going to be in the podcast description.
How do we, how do we find you coach?
Yeah, you can find me most of my stuff is on Instagram at how to get recruited.
(52:15):
I'm on TikTok at how to get recruited Twitter how to get recruited was too long.
So I'm HTG recruited on Twitter or X I'll never call it X.
It's Twitter.
I'm sorry And then I actually have my own podcast the how to get recruited podcast that Iwould love to have you on Jared and then I can put you in the hot seat and and flip this
(52:35):
around I know we we could probably talk about recruiting for six hours and not get tired.
So
As long as you can pledge to me that I will not have to sing for any longer than I did onthis podcast, I think we're in the clear.
will have to sing every answer the whole whole podcast Karaoke recruiting
(52:58):
rhyme because that's what I've been doing with the baby is like everything I say rhymes
Parenting changes you man, for the better, all the way around.
Absolutely.
it is done.
Well, this is this has been a blast.
So much great info.
And again, just thank you for all the support and thank you for just dropping thisincredible knowledge.
Have a great one, coach.
for having me, Jared.
(53:19):
Thank you.
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