October 2, 2024 • 58 mins
Jared here. And today, we focus on getting stronger. I’m joined by Chase Skinkis of Project Pure Athlete. We dive into his unique story of how he transformed his body and his game after college, leveraging a combination of his passion for basketball and an engineering-based approach to physical improvement.
You’ll learn the science behind improving athleticism from a world-reknowned dunker with 4-foot vertical (this is not a typo). You’ll also hear about how Chase’s commitment to strength and conditioning opened previously unimaginable doors for him, including “behind the scenes” work with NBA slam dunk contest participants.
Throughout the episode, we cover the essential principles of strength and conditioning for high school athletes. Chase breaks down the importance of injury prevention, the benefits of strength training, and why young athletes should start dynamic stretching and hitting the weightroom early.
In his own words; “it was never about dunking, it was about getting better at basketball.” The dunking is fun, but this is about the work it takes to become a stronger, more resilient athlete. This episode is packed with valuable insights on how to maximize your potential through proper training, goal-setting, and hard work. Tune in to learn from one of the best in the business!
Follow the links below for more on Coach Chase!
Instagram: @JumpGuyChase
Dunk Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6k6VNXeuVY
Project Pure Athlete: https://projectpureathlete.com
________________
Have a question that you’d like answered by me or a guest? Have an idea for an episode topic? Have no suggestions but just want to say hello? Email me at RecruitingGEAR@gmail.com
To obtain more information about my coaching services or to check out the book, visit www.nailtherecruitingprocess.com
Follow me on social media!
Instagram - @NailTheRecruitingProcess
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
in his awesome lab in Las Vegas, Nevada.
It's coach Chase Skin Kiss.
How's everything do?
How is everything going coach?
Things are great.
It's kind of that time where everybody's getting back to overseas or getting back toschool.
So it's a little bit more downtime in terms of work, a little bit more.
We're working on dad time here too.
(00:23):
My little guy just started smiling.
So we're in different phases.
I'm definitely going to be leaning on you as my guy gets a little bit older and startshandling physicality on a basketball court for the first time.
But this is great and you and I obviously know this, but I want to kind of outline thisfor our listeners.
You know, the first half of this season of the podcast has been a lot of interviews withcollege coaches.
(00:46):
few players, a few former athletes, but really just a consensus of what college coachesare looking for and what college players think you should expect.
And something that's come up constantly coach is this idea of the work and what hard worklooks like.
So when I think of people who embody actually doing the work that could talk to ourlisteners about, you know, what the work actually looks and feels like, I think that's why
(01:10):
I'm so excited to have you here.
So I want to actually start right there because
You have an online presence and a television presence as one of the jump guys.
You're an elite dunker and I know there's more to that story, but I also want thelisteners to know about your relationship with the game of basketball.
So can you just to start, talk us through your high school and college experiences as abasketball player and how did your love of this game really start?
(01:37):
So for me it was basically like love at first sight in that when I was a little kid, I wasmaybe eight or nine years old and I saw three kids, a few brothers playing together at a
park.
Two of them were my age and it's like working out with their older brother and they werejust there shooting hoops.
I'd never seen it before.
And instantly I kind of gravitated to it.
And from then, every time there was a basketball game on TV, anytime that like I justwatched it and consumed it as much as possible.
(02:03):
It was something that instantly drew me in and
Still to this day, it's something I kind of live my life by and obsess over.
that's kind of like how I fell in love with the game.
From there, was just being a kid that moved around a lot.
lived in so many different places.
I went to 13 different schools over the years.
(02:24):
So it's a kind of unique experience in that everywhere I went, I didn't have any friendsfor a while.
So I got to spend a lot of time with the game.
It was something that I could enjoy and put time into while also being able to use that asa vehicle to make friends.
So basketball's played a big part in my life.
In terms of how it went for me as a career, it started off slow.
(02:47):
And just like many kids, especially in some of these rural areas, I lived in a bunch ofsmall towns.
There wasn't a lot of great experience to lean on in terms of how to develop as abasketball player.
So even though was out shooting a lot or spending a lot of time, I wasn't necessarilydoing things that
become a better basketball player all the time.
Standstill jumpers and things like that, So with that struggle early on in my kind ofcareer and got better at it, it's something that continued to grow.
(03:15):
So it's kind of lackluster college experience and really blossomed after that.
So after I left college, was a time where I really began to learn a lot more about how todevelop as a player.
I spent a lot of time on my game, eventually got to play overseas, eventually got to playsome minor pro basketball, things like that.
(03:38):
But it led to so many other avenues that the love for basketball led to the love oftrading.
Eventually, I in college, that's where it was a lackluster career because I was small, Iwas weak, I wasn't fast, right?
So I had to overcome those obstacles and the journey of trying to overcome it to continueplaying, to continue chasing the dream of playing basketball further, that's where.
(03:59):
fell in love with the training side of things as well.
Now, I certainly don't want to blow up your entire spot privately, but there is one thingabout your professional lens that I really respect, which is that you're also an engineer.
You're an engineer by trade.
And just in my previous conversations with you, you have a very pragmatic approach to thework that you're doing.
(04:22):
So if you don't mind, I almost want you to put your engineer hat on for a moment and kindof walk our listeners through.
when you started learning about how you could improve yourself, because under your ownadmission, you kind of went from really, really enjoying the game and working hard at it
to then flipping a switch, keeping all those things, but transforming yourself physically.
(04:47):
So I would love to know like, what was it that you were exposed to?
Because to me, it's almost like you have two parallels.
There's this love of the game.
but it is your scientific approach to improvement that has now sort of carried you intothis other phase of your career that I'm also really interested in.
So absolutely it was.
Kind of looking at things differently.
(05:08):
So at that time, this was kind of pre -cell phones where you could, pre -YouTube and allthat kind of stuff, dating myself there, but it wasn't as easy to just find great
information, And it's not always easy now.
You still gotta have lot of hip to sift through all the information and try to figure outwhat's valuable, right?
But at that time it was Slam Magazine.
It was like little simple things like that.
(05:28):
I bought some programs, I tried those out.
Got to college, started lifting weights more, things like that.
decided that some of this stuff was working, some of it wasn't.
Back then we were using a lot of track and field advice or football advice and while itwas helpful, I always knew there was something missing.
And for me it was, I would get fairly strong and maybe get on a fast break, right?
(05:53):
And you're running as fast as you can on a fast break and I would be just so fearful ofthose last few steps.
Like, I'm not gonna blow through this, am I gonna even jump off the ground?
Right, exactly, right?
Okay.
I knew that there was something missing in terms of how I was approaching that versusother people.
And YouTube really changed the game, right?
Once YouTube came out and I started seeing these other people dunk, I started to reallykind of use that kind of physics blend to look at what they were doing.
(06:19):
And then I started recording myself and I noticed that there was positions that they werehitting that I wasn't.
And I saw this consistently on people who were very good jumpers.
There was positions that they were consistently hitting.
that I tried to then learn how to reproduce.
And then I started trying to think about, why are these positions important?
And started looking at it from, like said, from a physics standpoint, than a, rather thana what are my muscles doing standpoint?
(06:42):
Like how are we interacting with ground?
How, what's the force direction that we're bringing into the equation with our approach?
How is that kind of transitioning into our conversion phase and so on?
And came up with these ideas.
started testing them out, was trying to get myself to learn these positions and noticedthat big improvements, right?
(07:03):
So when I initially tested for, you know, all through high school and all that sort ofstuff, had, I generally had about a one to two inch difference between my standing jump
and my approach jump.
You know, sometimes those are one step approaches, sometimes they're three stepapproaches, or sometimes they're max approaches.
It didn't really matter.
I couldn't really jump higher off of an approach.
Then I...
just for context, cause I'd love to ask this, when you say Max approach, you're talkingabout like that full one, two gather and really explode off the ground.
(07:29):
Yeah, so when people test approach or test jumps, right, you have the standing verticaljump where your feet don't move, right?
Then you have, sometimes they'll have you test a one -step approach, which is just likeyou pushing one step into the jump.
NBA combine testing, they have a 15 -foot maximum, right?
So yeah, you can do however many steps you want, but you have 15 feet to do it, right?
So generally for people, that's a two to three step, two to three step approach.
(07:52):
Then you have max approach jumping, which is where, you know,
one -leg jumpers and things like that really get an advantage that they can bring in morespeed that they can convert into vertical after that, right?
So that's how we're measuring it that way.
Well, by the time I peaked out, I was jumping about 12 inches higher off of my approachthan I was off my standing.
I've tested thousands and thousands over the years.
(08:15):
I think that most people can get in that four to six range with good technique.
And then people who are really optimize it, you can get that eight to 12 range.
It's crazy to hear you say, I was never a leaper.
So when you're talking about an improvement that is basically only like two inches lessthan my total vert.
(08:35):
just to get, don't want, again, don't want to blow up your spot, but your peak, as Iunderstand it, is you have jumped four feet in the air, correct?
Yeah, I'm six foot tall, I my head on the rim, had to get staples, the whole deal.
Yeah, it's a lot less fun than it sounds like.
the raddest way to get staples ever.
Like if it's gonna happen, that's a really cool way to have it happen.
(08:56):
It was exciting to do it and it was painful at the same time.
I bet.
So I want to sort of piggyback on this because I imagine this athletic improvement takesyou in a number of different ways.
You already shared with us how it gives you a lens into literally playing this game thatyou love professionally overseas, which has got to be like the ultimate rush, especially
(09:21):
after your younger experience.
You know, we talk so much and we've talked behind the scenes just as coaches.
You know, we talk
to young people all the time about how this happens differently for everybody.
So you are someone that has really maximized post -collegiately.
This game takes you all over the world.
I want to sort of bring you back to the States now because you start having a really coolopportunity a little less than 10 years ago to collaborate with the NBA for the dunk
(09:50):
contest.
And I don't want to get you in trouble, but I would love
Thank you.
about NBA dunk contest prep because, I'll talk to you more about the why in a moment, butyou and I grew up in the heightened time of the dunk contest.
And I'll pick your brain more about that in a moment, but like, what was that like and howdid you get into it?
(10:14):
So through doing professional dunk contests over the years, I was able to kind of link upwith people who eventually became some kind of decision makers and consultants behind the
scenes in the dunk contest world, right?
So that's one way in, is that I just became known by the people who kind of mattered atthat point behind the scenes.
Then...
(10:34):
And some of these scenarios, I was able to tell my story, right?
So I did Dunk King, which was produced by the people who did American Ninja Warrior.
So it's kind of shot in a very similar way in that they give a little bit of a backstory.
And they took a liking to my backstory and let me tell it a little bit on one of theepisodes.
So that helped kind of my appeal to people who maybe hadn't heard my backstory of notbeing able to dunk in high school and becoming a professional dunker.
(11:03):
That opened up some minds.
said, okay, what do mean you couldn't dunk in high school and you're doing these sorts ofthings competing with the best dunkers in the world?
So that kind of just put me on the map a little bit in a different way.
Fast forward a couple years, an agent that is a friend of mine, he had a client get in theEmbay Dunk contest.
(11:24):
It's kind of last minute.
was a guy who was a big underdog, wasn't seen as a dunker, right?
And he knew of...
This guy Chuck Milan who's a friend of his and Chuck and Chuck and me were hired to helpthis guy Glenn Robinson III Well Glenn was a 17 to 100 dog at one point and he ended up
winning the NBA dunk contest We had four practices to help him do it He never dunked anyover anybody in his life He'd never done anything really basically other than a 361 mil
(11:52):
was kind of his go -to dunk, which is a great dunk But it's you know, it all comes down tothe preparation now over my years of competing in dunk contest
It was my preparation that allowed me to compete with people who were better than me.
There's a lot of people who could jump really high, even some that jump higher than the 48inches or whatnot.
A lot of people were better dunkers than me, but I was able to compete in dunk contests bytreating it like a professional.
(12:17):
And the mindset of how I was gonna do each dunk, I took it very seriously.
I stood in the same spots.
I threw the ball in the same spot.
I wanted to make sure I made my dunks, and that was the most important part.
Chuck gave me really good advice one time at a dunk contest He said rule number onethrough ten is you got to make your dunk.
You can't worry so much about what everybody else is doing You got to worry about doingthe best that you can do and putting on the best show for you, right?
(12:39):
So we took this advice and helped, you know I started analyzing Glenn's approaches and thethings that he was good at we came up with game plans and he ended up going out and
winning the dunk contest making all his dunks getting 50s the whole deal One of the peoplewho run the event for the NBA they were there
at our practice session.
We were kind of jerks and didn't show them anything and they weren't too happy about that.
(13:04):
as in kind of like they wanted to know what you were going to do and you were like, no,okay.
everything.
I, you know, I was aware that there was other people in the gym.
So we didn't, we wanted it to be a shock value, right?
So we purposely stand back the session.
You know, I tried to work separately with the camera guys and say, Hey, we're going toapproach from here.
This is what we're going to do.
This is the angles that you want that sort of stuff to make sure the show is good.
(13:27):
But nobody had seen the dunks.
We actually went to a high school later that night to get another practice session andrather than doing it there.
But next day.
the guys like don't ever do that again but you guys did awesome love to know more about itand ended up being able to build that into relationships now where we are available to
work with any of the any of the dunkers that are hired for the NBA dunk contest they getthe option to work with us and some of them take advantage of it some of them don't but
(13:54):
the ones that do come in very prepared come in with a professional mindset and usually dovery
So it is incredible to me for a number of reasons, but I can't get over the competitivenature, because I would have done something very similar of them asking, you what can we
be prepared for and you being like, go away.
I love that.
But the other thing that's really interesting to me is that it sounds like, at least tome, these techniques and, you know, that sort of scientifically you discovered that helped
(14:25):
you improve, you were able to teach and pass very quickly.
to professional athletes that kind of understood their body.
So.
the dunk contest is a very unique scenario in that these guys are professional basketballplayers.
Dunking is a part of basketball, but the people who are really, really good at dunkinggenerally aren't basketball players.
They're people who maybe play basketball, but they're not spending hours working on thetechnique of these dunks, right?
(14:49):
So an NBA guy who accepts, they may get three or four practices, right?
You're also in season.
If you're a guy who plays a lot, like there was a, I worked with Donovan Mitchell and theyflew us out to.
to go work with them in Salt Lake City.
He played an overtime game the night before and the team was like, no, you can't today.
So we went there and just talked, right?
We couldn't get any practice in.
Like they're the basketball side of things that obviously trumps the 15 minutes of thedunk contest.
(15:16):
So, you know, with that said, a lot of these guys are very underprepared.
So my job is to do a lot of the legwork for them, right?
They're going to come in with a few ideas of their own.
I want to make sure that they're going to make those, right?
So we're going to
We're gonna work on the technique to make sure we give them the best advantage to makethose dunks as possible.
And then given how much time we have, we're gonna try to suggest some things, right?
(15:39):
So somebody like Glenn, we're able to get four practices in, we're able to suggest a lotof things.
Some guys, it's only a couple of practices, we're suggesting less, we're trying not tochange too much to, know, it's a balance between getting them to try new things, getting
them to be confident, like there's a lot of psychology in this, right?
And you're going out there and you have to make your dunk the first try.
So you have to...
(16:00):
you know, balance out what you're pushing, what you're changing versus, you know, whatyou're just giving them the tools to do a little bit better.
There's some small technical things that we can do in terms of how you hold the ball,where you jump from, the angle that you take.
Like there's some small things that all do in there.
That's a lot of jump technique or dunk technique related changes, but it's very, verysmall.
(16:24):
It might be moving an inch here, might be.
establishing a step, your start point one foot further over or things like that.
And I'm not telling them what it's for.
I'm just saying, hey, stand here next time you do it and see how that goes.
Usually it goes better.
Then we're saying, okay, well, I'll make some notes.
And when I give them the notes, I'm like, hey, you're gonna stand exactly here when youstart this, things like that.
Well, it's so funny because the way you describe that is not terribly dissimilar from theway I would work on somebody's jump shot.
(16:49):
You know, I don't want to completely reinvent the wheel in a 20 to 25 minute workout.
I want to say, hey, I noticed this about your guide hand, try it this way.
Let me know how it feels.
And it kind of sounds like that kind of approach.
And there, there's a vibe and you get in there and you work with the guy and maybe they'rein their heads, their head a little bit, and we'll back off a little bit and kind of let
them work their way through it.
And, you know, we're not trying to change everything.
(17:10):
But, you know, it's the idea of like, these guys are not professional dunkers, they'reprofessional basketball players.
And we're not trying to make them go out and always do the craziest things possible.
We want them to have confidence and make their dunks and, you know, and, you know, givethem the tools to put on a good show for themselves.
not necessarily try to blow the world away.
(17:30):
know, although some guys do like Mac Mac and some of these guys over the years have donesome pretty incredible things, you know, it's not always about that.
Sure.
Now, you mentioned earlier, you revealed a little bit of your age talking about some ofthe predates YouTube.
I think it's about the time the podcast where you and I really revealed that we're oldguys.
Because when you say, know, Glenn Robinson the third, I immediately think about you and I,you know, being children and watching his dad.
(17:57):
And one thing I know about both of us is we're both tattoo enthusiasts, but your sleeve...
has gone in a little bit different of a direction than my sleeve.
You have some iconic dunking moments tattooed on yourself.
Our listeners are not going to have any idea what's going on.
But for our viewers, I don't want to be missing anybody, but I know for a minimum, youhave a huge Vince Carter piece and a huge Jordan piece.
(18:24):
And I imagine that these stem from hugely iconic moments of your childhood.
So, you know,
I'm imagining Chase that you working on the dunk contest is like a full circle like, wow,this is the thing I grew up watching thing.
absolutely.
mean, it was, I'm the kid that watched every moment of All -Star weekend, right?
(18:45):
Like every moment, it recorded everything if I could, went back and watched it.
Obviously the dunk contest you had to watch live.
Like I remember the Vince Carter dunk that I have tattooed.
I remember jumping over my couch.
I was so excited, like, you know, the whole deal.
So yeah, this was kind of an homage to the sport itself, but then it's getting more nicheinto All -Star weekend and the dunk contest and things that.
(19:08):
I never thought I would ever be able to influence or be a part of.
It's a little side note for my 30 for 31 days.
I lead the NBA NUC contest and assists.
So to be a person who is and was a huge fan of it, to be able to influence it, that wassomething I never thought was gonna be possible.
(19:28):
yeah, it's always a big joy for me to get that email to say, hey, here's your tickets andhere's your flight, blah, blah, blah.
It's never lost on me.
So yeah, I wanted to kind of put that in an ink, so to speak, hired a guy, Steve, who'sone of the most well -known artists around, Steve Butcher, he does pieces for NBA guys and
(19:56):
lots of realistic stuff.
He's done a bunch of iconic kind of Kobe pieces and things like that.
He did a couple of pieces on my arm.
He's from New Zealand, he actually flew out to California and just the timing worked out.
But with that, the very next day that I posted it, was on ESPN and it was on the jump andit was on all that kind of stuff.
Yeah, I was pretty crazy to see the reaction.
(20:18):
It's a really, and I mean, I'm not saying this to blow smoke.
It's a really good tattoo.
Yeah, I mean, that's insane.
The detail is insane.
So.
an incredible artist and whatever photo you give him, it's gonna look exactly like that.
Just so happens that these photos are from the 80s and 90s, so there's a little bit ofkind of age to them, but if you give them the most vibrant, the highest quality photo that
(20:44):
you could think of, it's gonna look exactly
It's funny you say this, something about our age though is actually helpful when lookingback on photos.
It almost like expands the myth of the event taking place.
So like when you watch Jordan or Dominique dunk in the late 80s and the film is a littlebit grainy, it almost helps you sort of imagine this like dream sequence of them dunking.
(21:07):
High definition has been great for sports, but that like grainy late 80s, early 90s, likeI'm even thinking like JR Rider, like East Bay Funk Dunk.
Those are those moments where they almost feel like a dream because of the way they look.
It's that.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work out for me and my social media with all the grainy footagefrom my days.
(21:28):
It's not good for throwback posts, but I wish it had that same effect on Instagram.
man, we're gonna, hopefully somebody listens to this that just does like dynamic videoediting and it's just like, I got you.
So I got one more question about dunking because I also want to talk strengthconditioning, which I know you're very passionate about.
(21:48):
But because you're in Las Vegas, I have a tie in for you.
One of my favorite movie scenes in my lifetime is the final scene of Ocean's Eleven, wherethey're standing outside the Bellagio and no one says a word.
They all just kind of look at one another and they're like, wow, we just did that.
We just did that and that's kind of how the movie ends.
I would ask you in your history because you've accomplished so much physically, do youhave what I would describe as a Bellagio dunk?
(22:16):
Something where like, cause obviously you're always thinking bigger and better causethat's how athletes work, but do you ever have one that you stuck where you can look back
in hindsight and you're like, I did that.
Yeah, I think so there's a dunk that I created.
I was first person to do, but I was also the first person to do it in contest.
we always like people who are dunkers, so to speak, there's, what we call like YouTubedunkers or like Instagram dunkers, people that can make a dunk, right, and post a video.
(22:42):
But it's a whole nother thing to go and do it in a live live event and be able to do itfirst, first try, right?
That's a whole nother level of mastery.
So with that, there's a dunk, actually taught it to Larry Nance Jr.
and he did it in NBA dunk contest, but
threw it off the backboard, jumped up, caught it in the air, threw it off the backboardagain, and I would reverse it.
So I did that and did that in a dunk contest, and that was the first time it had ever beendone.
(23:05):
So I really like, that moment was pretty cool to have something to show in history, likethat's mine, and anybody that does it from now on, they got it from that.
That's a pretty cool deal.
But with the NBA contest, just to add one more, specifically it was the ride to
the Dunk Contest in 2017, it was myself and Chuck, and it was Aaron Gordon and Derek JonesJr.
(23:32):
and Glenn in the bus riding over to the event together and knowing that history was gonnabe changed from there.
They were gonna be working with professionals from here on out.
That was a really cool moment to know what was happening in the moment.
It wasn't lost on how things were gonna change from
That's so awesome.
I'm so excited you got to have that too.
(23:54):
Last question before we segue, because now we're to talk about work for athletes and stufflike that.
But there's something I'm thinking about.
Because you're so scientific minded and I know a lot of coaches like this, what seemsnormal to you in terms of the work you put in and grinding every day might not be normal
to somebody else.
So I know you're going to answer this casually, which is kind of the intent.
(24:17):
But if you can give me an idea, how much time were you working every day?
to improve your physicality once you started making these discoveries in your early 20s.
give me a timeframe a day.
is on top of working, on top of having a mortgage, on top of having a wife, on top ofhaving all that other stuff, at least 20 hours a
So it's almost like wink, wink, nudge, nudge to our listeners.
(24:42):
Yep.
If you want to see improvement, you have to work for it.
It was no nonsense, it was an obsession.
It was like I changed the way, not just the simple stuff that you would think of, like theway you eat and the things that you drink or the way that you work out, the mindset, sort
of stuff.
I literally changed the way I would position my body to sleep.
(25:05):
It was that level of obsession to try to just maximize any little advantage that I could.
So we've actually never talked about this, but I keep that, I'm like a weatherman rightnow.
There you go.
That Spartan race medal I keep because basically I, summer after I finished my first yearof grad school, was 23 turning 24, I lost 40 pounds in a summer and trained like a maniac
(25:32):
and then ran an endurance race.
And I have this picture.
So like my Bellagio moment is I have this picture of my dad.
And you could see with my dad holding me after I crossed the finish line and I likecouldn't even smile.
I was so tired and you could tell just by the look on my dad's face that he was like, Ididn't see him doing that ever.
(25:52):
And I have a feeling that like as you started making those types of improvements, thoseare the moments that like give you that Bellagio feeling that we're talking about.
Like you probably didn't see what was happening, but once you got to, my God, the resultsare coming in.
a couple months down the line, I imagine that feeling is addictive.
Yeah, and it definitely wasn't even months it was like sticking to it for years right andit was you know, I I did I remember right in 2008 I remember writing down specifically in
(26:23):
a notepad like three goals and I wanted to be able to dunk consistently in games I wantedto be able to do like Showtime type, you know, I'm talking windmills and things like that
I wanted to be able this is way before I like I was barely making one out of ten ducks atthis time
I wanted to be able to do dunks like that in games.
And then I wanted to be able to hit my head on the rim.
Now I set that one as like an absurd goal.
(26:47):
In my mind, wasn't something I was going to And then it was just a matter of just neverquitting, never like stopping.
And it just continued to build and build and build.
And once I saw some success, it was more motivating to get in there.
Right.
But in the beginning, it was a lot of like, I'm in the weight room, I'm doing differentthings.
I'm doing things that nobody else is doing.
And you hear the Snickers, you hear the like,
(27:08):
why are you doing that kind of stuff.
And then fast forward years later, the people are like, hey, I was sitting at a bar and Isaw you on ESPN or whatever the case may be.
And I just like think back to those moments in training and like nobody really believed inwhat you were doing, but you stick to it for long enough.
You who knows what can
love that.
And I think this gives us a perfect avenue to dovetail into the science.
(27:31):
So first of all, I appreciate you sharing what you shared.
got like it was more personal than I was expecting.
So I really appreciate you sharing that stuff.
And it fires me up because it's the competitor in you.
So now let me ask at what point do you also realize, hey, there's an injury preventioncomponent to this and we're actually making people it's not just that we're increasing a
(27:52):
skill set, but like what we're doing is making people healthier.
and stronger and more physically resilient.
How does that come along?
So there's a few ways that people go about trying to make big changes in their verticaljump.
And a lot of it comes back to track.
In track and field, you kind of have this block periodization.
you get stronger.
(28:12):
You build a muscle up bigger.
You worry about strength.
And you worry about of transitioning that into a realization phase and making it show upon the track.
So you're kind of doing this longer term build for a specific moment.
Well, I was a basketball player.
And I was playing consistently.
So I didn't.
I didn't want to have this slow build, right?
So I started thinking about how to do things a little differently.
(28:34):
Did a lot of research into how long do certain strength qualities last, you know, thingslike max strength, you know, they'll maybe last about 28 days without training them.
Things like really quick, fast movements, like sprint speed and things like that.
They're going to last about seven days maybe without training them, right?
So with that, you know, I became to, I started formulating a plan on how I couldcontinually build all these things up all at once.
(28:59):
without having these big lulls where I just feel terrible all the time, right?
And in terms of like block periodization, if you're doing like a traditional block styleand you're doing hypertrophy block, you're gonna be sore all the time while you're
continuing to play.
Now, you have to accept some of that and you're gonna still have some of that, but the waythat you pair things together and plan, you can minimize some of those effects while also
(29:24):
still getting the greater global effects that you're trying to get over a longer period.
So it may not be the quickest way to do it, right?
In terms of like, hey, if I have a goal for 12 weeks, maybe I do a block periodization orsomething like that, right?
But if I'm thinking like, I just want to be the best that I can be for a long time, right?
There's ways to go about planning that I think are a little bit more effective to keep themain thing the main thing, which for me, dunking wasn't the main thing.
(29:49):
Playing basketball was the main thing.
So I just thought about things a little bit differently.
A lot of trial and error, a lot of trying different things and having things not work.
trying things and liking a certain part of it and keeping it.
So it's long -winded stay, a long, long explanation to say that, you know, there's a lotof research, a lot of trial and error and a lot of experimentation to find out what worked
(30:11):
for me, what worked for my body.
And if I do it for the person next to me, they may respond a little bit differently and wehave to find the dosage, the kind of appropriate level of volume and whatnot to make it
work for them without burying them as well.
sort of brings us to a subject that I think is really important, which is strength andconditioning at the high school level.
(30:34):
I have my reasons to sort of explain to young people, like if I work with someone in aconsult, and this even happened with someone I was working with last week, where I was
like, hey, there are certain things that if you seriously want to play at X level, you canget in a gym with someone that really understands how your lower body works and you can
become more explosive and you can work on your
(30:56):
you know, on your first step and you can work on your vert and you can work on youroverall, you know, speed and explosiveness.
So I think those are all important reasons aside from injury prevention, which isobviously the biggest one.
Longevity is the thing we're working to protect.
But, you know, I think that more high school athletes that are serious about, especiallyindividual sport focus should be doing strength and conditioning.
(31:19):
From your perspective, and especially given the type of clientele that you are workingwith at Project Pure Athlete,
Why do you want to see more young people doing this?
So like you said, injury prevention is first and foremost in that you're doing a sportdynamically.
You're running, you're sprinting, you're cutting, there's contact, there's so manyvariables that are dangerous in an aspect.
(31:46):
There are violent collisions, whether it just be between you and another person or you andthe ground.
Those collisions are violent.
So preparing your body for those collisions
is the best way to make sure you can continue to play day in and day out.
And as a sports coach, know, like the time matters, right?
So if I'm missing time because my knee hurts or missing time because I'm constantlystruggling with pain when I'm running or whatnot, those are missed hours to get better,
(32:11):
right?
So in order to kind of maximize our journey, we have to do enough preparation for our bodyto be able to withstand the loads that we want to put on it.
So with that,
you know, there's, you know, it's, I'm trying to think of the right way to say it, butit's, you know, it's, think it's, it'd be short -sighted not to include that almost the
(32:34):
whole way through the journey, right?
At some level, whether if it's at a young age, maybe it's just learning how to movebetter.
Maybe it's just some, some calisthenics.
Maybe it's, you know, it could be any number of things, but preparing your body to cut inand out of positions better, maybe help you cut safer, or cut safer, you know, helping
your body.
you know, do some light hops and skips will help it self -organize to be able to landsafer, right?
(32:56):
You can progress into isometrics and progress into some lighter loading and eventually youjust continue to build and build and build much the way that like a physiotherapist, if
you're coming in for an injury would start with a really low, a really low kind of on thescale of things that would start on the lower end of, know, shortening the movements,
lightening the load, teaching you how to just lower, right?
(33:19):
and then continue to add on layers and add on layers and add on layers.
That's the same thing we're gonna do with in the weight room.
If you have a longer term plan, it just starts lower, lower in the spectrum.
love the way you answered that because I think that'll be very easy for someone thatdoesn't have a ton of familiarity with the weight room to follow.
We all have to start somewhere and then we build on it.
(33:40):
And obviously, and I'm gonna plug this, you're gonna see links to Project Pure Athlete andCoach Chase's channel in the podcast description, but something else you'll see if you
click those links is some video footage of Coach Chase's two young kids doing some of thiswork.
So.
You are not only just giving this message, you're not like, I would say like someone thatworks in Silicon Valley that goes home and tells his kids not to use Instagram, but then
(34:07):
builds Instagram.
You want your kids doing the stuff that you believe in.
And with that in mind, you understand the human body.
You have a lot of this knowledge in your own training.
Is there anything that you're currently doing with your kids or that your kids are doingexercise wise that you would encourage parents of young kids to do with theirs?
So if nothing else, teach them how to warm up.
(34:29):
Include mobility in the warm up.
Like it could be some basic lunges in multiple directions, like forward, backward,sideways, things like that.
Teach them how to hinge.
Teach them how to push their hips back to get into the stretch there, stretch theirhamstrings out.
But then track drills, right?
A -skips, B -skips, C -skips, pogo hops, know, little simple things like that.
You just do those for a long enough period of time.
(34:50):
You you begin to get...
more athletic, especially at a young age.
There's a lot of, there's, you know, and my experience with some of research, there's alot of data that says that you build up a lot of your elastic qualities, you know, before
you're 10 years old or so.
You know, so those Pogo hops and A skips and B skips and C skips, those sorts of thingsjust are low impact ways to just build up some of those contacts while also building up
(35:13):
proper running form and things like that.
So they're just, I think, easy to learn, low, low in terms of impact.
and high in terms of long -term benefits in terms of what you're doing in of sport.
So a couple of times already, just as we've been chatting, you alluded to fear of anoveruse injury or overworking or overloading.
(35:37):
And I know in some of our previous conversations, just as we were getting to know oneanother before we recorded, we've also talked about, if you look at almost strength and
conditioning plus your sport training plus your actual competing as like a full plate anda balanced diet, where strength conditioning fits in.
So I would ask you, because
(35:59):
God knows someone's listening to this and a parent or a player is going, it's too much,it's too much.
What to you does strength conditioning look like as a supplement to an athlete's primarysport?
That's where having a coach that you can talk to matters, right?
And that we all have different demands in our sport.
Some people are just going to their team practices a couple hours a week and that's theirextent of their physical workout, right?
(36:24):
Others are, know, just like some of the kids that I know, they're putting in 20, 25 hoursa week at this.
With that said, the athlete that's putting 20, 25 hours a week, there's a high demand ontheir body already.
So the strength coach has to supplement
what they're doing in a smart way to not overload them with, if an athlete comes and saysthat they want to jump higher, immediately people will think about plyos and things like
(36:49):
that.
Well, if an athlete's on the court 20 hours a week, I don't necessarily want to go loadthem up with a bunch more plyos.
That's just more volume of high intensity contacts that they already have a ton of, right?
What that athlete probably needs is more tissue tolerance.
They probably need more general strength.
We may need to look at some, you know, some tightness issues that are limiting the waythat they move.
You know, so you need to think about training in a global aspect and not necessarily justlike everything needs to look exactly like what I want the output to be.
(37:19):
Right?
So not all jump training is jumping, right?
Sometimes jump training is slow movements, right?
And that's how you get the bigger benefits.
It's, you know, it's, I just like to think of it in terms of what's missing and then makesure we cover all the bases and then we can turn up the volume and turn down the volume on
things as, as we want to focus on.
love that.
(37:39):
And that's actually kind of a good segue into how I want to end with you because you'reobviously very invested in Project Pure Athlete right now.
You're one of the jump guys.
And I also know in addition to just, you know, the benefits of increasing your vert andincreasing your leg strength, you are really looking at physical development pretty
(37:59):
holistically and developing individualized plans for people.
So if someone is working with you either in person or remotely,
what can they kind of expect based on some of the stuff you just shared from Project PureF.
So I tell everyone that what I'm very honest and that what gets people to me is thejumping what gets people to me is the Jump technique and things like that that are a
(38:23):
little bit different than what other people are doing But that's probably the leastimportant part of what we're do especially for for basketball players, right with
basketball players The contact is where really things change, right?
So through my years of training I became a much better defender
became a much more physical player, finished through contact a lot better, right?
(38:44):
And so we optimize the way that we load, especially like upper body things that are alittle less direct to the sport.
We optimize the way that we load them to counter impact movements, So think if you're adefender, somebody's trying to hit you in the shoulder to turn you to get that advantage,
right?
We want to be able to take that contact to the shoulder and stay rigid.
(39:07):
So bump them further out, give us more time to stay in front.
or vice versa, like we want to have the core strength to be able to punch throughsomebody's shoulder and turn them if we're the offensive player.
So a lot of things that we do are going to be offset loaded.
A lot of things that we do are going to be putting us in athletic positions so where wehave to maintain a neutral core and a strong stable position while we're going through
other movements.
(39:27):
These, like I put so much effort and thought into overall design for the actual sport tomake sure that we're.
really covering the athlete as a whole and not just running, jumping.
Because running and jumping are two things that look good, but they're not the things thatyou're using all the time.
It's the deceleration, it's the contact, it's the resilience, it's being able to playlower and wider feet on defense, it's being able to keep your chest up and while you're on
(39:54):
defense in those low positions.
Those are the things that are going to make you a better player on every possession, notjust the two or three times that you get the opportunity to jump.
And what I'm about to say, really mean sincerely because I've actually talked to a youngathlete about something very similar to what we're talking about right now.
(40:15):
It's funny to me that you have shared that, you know, these were your original goals.
You wanted to increase your basketball playing career, get better at the game, be morephysically resilient.
And as a byproduct of those things, you started jumping out of the gym and then you setsome new goals and this happened and this happened and this happened.
And...
What I would encourage athletes that are hearing your story to really, really take homefrom this, because this has been super, super insightful coach.
(40:39):
I would encourage you remember that when you set goals and when you really start workingtowards them, the world also keeps spinning and you start accomplishing other things too.
And I would imagine that this journey has taken you places you would have never imaginedwhen you first got on it.
Is that a fair statement?
(41:00):
absolutely.
never had the goal of having a business in training.
Like I I worked full time before that, right?
You know, it was something that just a passion for improving myself, kind of a selfishpursuit, led to a knowledge base that was able to help other people.
And even then, was like I was helping other people.
(41:20):
I never had the idea of having the business, right?
At some point, I was thinking back about me as a 15, 16 -year -old kid who was reallytrying to get better.
what were the resources that I had to go through and I wanted to create a resource thatwas much easier to manage, right?
Somebody who had a blueprint already ready to help that athlete that was willing to put inthe work, was willing to do whatever it took to kind of reach that goal, but that didn't
(41:46):
have the know -how.
So that's kind of where I decided I needed to start putting this information out.
But it's just turned into a business through kind of people.
It's crazy to me that I just had two athletes, one from.
They were from Delaware and another from Pennsylvania this week, flying in and staying inVegas to come train with me.
Those things always blow my mind.
(42:07):
As a kid, I couldn't even afford a local trainer, much less fly across the country andstay there for weeks to train with somebody.
It's always humbling to have that.
I wanted this information to be out there for that kid, not necessarily for the business.
Absolutely.
And look at that.
We're stacking more and more of those Bellagio moments.
You you put in, you put in this work, you don't exactly know what you're going to get outof it, but you have goals and look at where the work takes you and enjoy the process.
(42:36):
And we can find more information by following you at Jump Guy Chase, checking you out atprojectpureathlete .com.
Again, those links are available in the podcast descriptions.
Coach Chase, thank you so much for jumping on and I really think they're super valuable.
Thank you.
yeah, thanks a lot for having me on.
in his awesome lab in Las Vegas, Nevada.
It's coach Chase Skin Kiss.
How's everything do?
How is everything going coach?
Things are great.
It's kind of that time where everybody's getting back to overseas or getting back toschool.
So it's a little bit more downtime in terms of work, a little bit more.
We're working on dad time here too.
(00:23):
My little guy just started smiling.
So we're in different phases.
I'm definitely going to be leaning on you as my guy gets a little bit older and startshandling physicality on a basketball court for the first time.
But this is great and you and I obviously know this, but I want to kind of outline thisfor our listeners.
You know, the first half of this season of the podcast has been a lot of interviews withcollege coaches.
(00:46):
few players, a few former athletes, but really just a consensus of what college coachesare looking for and what college players think you should expect.
And something that's come up constantly coach is this idea of the work and what hard worklooks like.
So when I think of people who embody actually doing the work that could talk to ourlisteners about, you know, what the work actually looks and feels like, I think that's why
(01:10):
I'm so excited to have you here.
So I want to actually start right there because
You have an online presence and a television presence as one of the jump guys.
You're an elite dunker and I know there's more to that story, but I also want thelisteners to know about your relationship with the game of basketball.
So can you just to start, talk us through your high school and college experiences as abasketball player and how did your love of this game really start?
(01:37):
So for me it was basically like love at first sight in that when I was a little kid, I wasmaybe eight or nine years old and I saw three kids, a few brothers playing together at a
park.
Two of them were my age and it's like working out with their older brother and they werejust there shooting hoops.
I'd never seen it before.
And instantly I kind of gravitated to it.
And from then, every time there was a basketball game on TV, anytime that like I justwatched it and consumed it as much as possible.
(02:03):
It was something that instantly drew me in and
Still to this day, it's something I kind of live my life by and obsess over.
that's kind of like how I fell in love with the game.
From there, was just being a kid that moved around a lot.
lived in so many different places.
I went to 13 different schools over the years.
(02:24):
So it's a kind of unique experience in that everywhere I went, I didn't have any friendsfor a while.
So I got to spend a lot of time with the game.
It was something that I could enjoy and put time into while also being able to use that asa vehicle to make friends.
So basketball's played a big part in my life.
In terms of how it went for me as a career, it started off slow.
(02:47):
And just like many kids, especially in some of these rural areas, I lived in a bunch ofsmall towns.
There wasn't a lot of great experience to lean on in terms of how to develop as abasketball player.
So even though was out shooting a lot or spending a lot of time, I wasn't necessarilydoing things that
become a better basketball player all the time.
Standstill jumpers and things like that, So with that struggle early on in my kind ofcareer and got better at it, it's something that continued to grow.
(03:15):
So it's kind of lackluster college experience and really blossomed after that.
So after I left college, was a time where I really began to learn a lot more about how todevelop as a player.
I spent a lot of time on my game, eventually got to play overseas, eventually got to playsome minor pro basketball, things like that.
(03:38):
But it led to so many other avenues that the love for basketball led to the love oftrading.
Eventually, I in college, that's where it was a lackluster career because I was small, Iwas weak, I wasn't fast, right?
So I had to overcome those obstacles and the journey of trying to overcome it to continueplaying, to continue chasing the dream of playing basketball further, that's where.
(03:59):
fell in love with the training side of things as well.
Now, I certainly don't want to blow up your entire spot privately, but there is one thingabout your professional lens that I really respect, which is that you're also an engineer.
You're an engineer by trade.
And just in my previous conversations with you, you have a very pragmatic approach to thework that you're doing.
(04:22):
So if you don't mind, I almost want you to put your engineer hat on for a moment and kindof walk our listeners through.
when you started learning about how you could improve yourself, because under your ownadmission, you kind of went from really, really enjoying the game and working hard at it
to then flipping a switch, keeping all those things, but transforming yourself physically.
(04:47):
So I would love to know like, what was it that you were exposed to?
Because to me, it's almost like you have two parallels.
There's this love of the game.
but it is your scientific approach to improvement that has now sort of carried you intothis other phase of your career that I'm also really interested in.
So absolutely it was.
Kind of looking at things differently.
(05:08):
So at that time, this was kind of pre -cell phones where you could, pre -YouTube and allthat kind of stuff, dating myself there, but it wasn't as easy to just find great
information, And it's not always easy now.
You still gotta have lot of hip to sift through all the information and try to figure outwhat's valuable, right?
But at that time it was Slam Magazine.
It was like little simple things like that.
(05:28):
I bought some programs, I tried those out.
Got to college, started lifting weights more, things like that.
decided that some of this stuff was working, some of it wasn't.
Back then we were using a lot of track and field advice or football advice and while itwas helpful, I always knew there was something missing.
And for me it was, I would get fairly strong and maybe get on a fast break, right?
(05:53):
And you're running as fast as you can on a fast break and I would be just so fearful ofthose last few steps.
Like, I'm not gonna blow through this, am I gonna even jump off the ground?
Right, exactly, right?
Okay.
I knew that there was something missing in terms of how I was approaching that versusother people.
And YouTube really changed the game, right?
Once YouTube came out and I started seeing these other people dunk, I started to reallykind of use that kind of physics blend to look at what they were doing.
(06:19):
And then I started recording myself and I noticed that there was positions that they werehitting that I wasn't.
And I saw this consistently on people who were very good jumpers.
There was positions that they were consistently hitting.
that I tried to then learn how to reproduce.
And then I started trying to think about, why are these positions important?
And started looking at it from, like said, from a physics standpoint, than a, rather thana what are my muscles doing standpoint?
(06:42):
Like how are we interacting with ground?
How, what's the force direction that we're bringing into the equation with our approach?
How is that kind of transitioning into our conversion phase and so on?
And came up with these ideas.
started testing them out, was trying to get myself to learn these positions and noticedthat big improvements, right?
(07:03):
So when I initially tested for, you know, all through high school and all that sort ofstuff, had, I generally had about a one to two inch difference between my standing jump
and my approach jump.
You know, sometimes those are one step approaches, sometimes they're three stepapproaches, or sometimes they're max approaches.
It didn't really matter.
I couldn't really jump higher off of an approach.
Then I...
just for context, cause I'd love to ask this, when you say Max approach, you're talkingabout like that full one, two gather and really explode off the ground.
(07:29):
Yeah, so when people test approach or test jumps, right, you have the standing verticaljump where your feet don't move, right?
Then you have, sometimes they'll have you test a one -step approach, which is just likeyou pushing one step into the jump.
NBA combine testing, they have a 15 -foot maximum, right?
So yeah, you can do however many steps you want, but you have 15 feet to do it, right?
So generally for people, that's a two to three step, two to three step approach.
(07:52):
Then you have max approach jumping, which is where, you know,
one -leg jumpers and things like that really get an advantage that they can bring in morespeed that they can convert into vertical after that, right?
So that's how we're measuring it that way.
Well, by the time I peaked out, I was jumping about 12 inches higher off of my approachthan I was off my standing.
I've tested thousands and thousands over the years.
(08:15):
I think that most people can get in that four to six range with good technique.
And then people who are really optimize it, you can get that eight to 12 range.
It's crazy to hear you say, I was never a leaper.
So when you're talking about an improvement that is basically only like two inches lessthan my total vert.
(08:35):
just to get, don't want, again, don't want to blow up your spot, but your peak, as Iunderstand it, is you have jumped four feet in the air, correct?
Yeah, I'm six foot tall, I my head on the rim, had to get staples, the whole deal.
Yeah, it's a lot less fun than it sounds like.
the raddest way to get staples ever.
Like if it's gonna happen, that's a really cool way to have it happen.
(08:56):
It was exciting to do it and it was painful at the same time.
I bet.
So I want to sort of piggyback on this because I imagine this athletic improvement takesyou in a number of different ways.
You already shared with us how it gives you a lens into literally playing this game thatyou love professionally overseas, which has got to be like the ultimate rush, especially
(09:21):
after your younger experience.
You know, we talk so much and we've talked behind the scenes just as coaches.
You know, we talk
to young people all the time about how this happens differently for everybody.
So you are someone that has really maximized post -collegiately.
This game takes you all over the world.
I want to sort of bring you back to the States now because you start having a really coolopportunity a little less than 10 years ago to collaborate with the NBA for the dunk
(09:50):
contest.
And I don't want to get you in trouble, but I would love
Thank you.
about NBA dunk contest prep because, I'll talk to you more about the why in a moment, butyou and I grew up in the heightened time of the dunk contest.
And I'll pick your brain more about that in a moment, but like, what was that like and howdid you get into it?
(10:14):
So through doing professional dunk contests over the years, I was able to kind of link upwith people who eventually became some kind of decision makers and consultants behind the
scenes in the dunk contest world, right?
So that's one way in, is that I just became known by the people who kind of mattered atthat point behind the scenes.
Then...
(10:34):
And some of these scenarios, I was able to tell my story, right?
So I did Dunk King, which was produced by the people who did American Ninja Warrior.
So it's kind of shot in a very similar way in that they give a little bit of a backstory.
And they took a liking to my backstory and let me tell it a little bit on one of theepisodes.
So that helped kind of my appeal to people who maybe hadn't heard my backstory of notbeing able to dunk in high school and becoming a professional dunker.
(11:03):
That opened up some minds.
said, okay, what do mean you couldn't dunk in high school and you're doing these sorts ofthings competing with the best dunkers in the world?
So that kind of just put me on the map a little bit in a different way.
Fast forward a couple years, an agent that is a friend of mine, he had a client get in theEmbay Dunk contest.
(11:24):
It's kind of last minute.
was a guy who was a big underdog, wasn't seen as a dunker, right?
And he knew of...
This guy Chuck Milan who's a friend of his and Chuck and Chuck and me were hired to helpthis guy Glenn Robinson III Well Glenn was a 17 to 100 dog at one point and he ended up
winning the NBA dunk contest We had four practices to help him do it He never dunked anyover anybody in his life He'd never done anything really basically other than a 361 mil
(11:52):
was kind of his go -to dunk, which is a great dunk But it's you know, it all comes down tothe preparation now over my years of competing in dunk contest
It was my preparation that allowed me to compete with people who were better than me.
There's a lot of people who could jump really high, even some that jump higher than the 48inches or whatnot.
A lot of people were better dunkers than me, but I was able to compete in dunk contests bytreating it like a professional.
(12:17):
And the mindset of how I was gonna do each dunk, I took it very seriously.
I stood in the same spots.
I threw the ball in the same spot.
I wanted to make sure I made my dunks, and that was the most important part.
Chuck gave me really good advice one time at a dunk contest He said rule number onethrough ten is you got to make your dunk.
You can't worry so much about what everybody else is doing You got to worry about doingthe best that you can do and putting on the best show for you, right?
(12:39):
So we took this advice and helped, you know I started analyzing Glenn's approaches and thethings that he was good at we came up with game plans and he ended up going out and
winning the dunk contest making all his dunks getting 50s the whole deal One of the peoplewho run the event for the NBA they were there
at our practice session.
We were kind of jerks and didn't show them anything and they weren't too happy about that.
(13:04):
as in kind of like they wanted to know what you were going to do and you were like, no,okay.
everything.
I, you know, I was aware that there was other people in the gym.
So we didn't, we wanted it to be a shock value, right?
So we purposely stand back the session.
You know, I tried to work separately with the camera guys and say, Hey, we're going toapproach from here.
This is what we're going to do.
This is the angles that you want that sort of stuff to make sure the show is good.
(13:27):
But nobody had seen the dunks.
We actually went to a high school later that night to get another practice session andrather than doing it there.
But next day.
the guys like don't ever do that again but you guys did awesome love to know more about itand ended up being able to build that into relationships now where we are available to
work with any of the any of the dunkers that are hired for the NBA dunk contest they getthe option to work with us and some of them take advantage of it some of them don't but
(13:54):
the ones that do come in very prepared come in with a professional mindset and usually dovery
So it is incredible to me for a number of reasons, but I can't get over the competitivenature, because I would have done something very similar of them asking, you what can we
be prepared for and you being like, go away.
I love that.
But the other thing that's really interesting to me is that it sounds like, at least tome, these techniques and, you know, that sort of scientifically you discovered that helped
(14:25):
you improve, you were able to teach and pass very quickly.
to professional athletes that kind of understood their body.
So.
the dunk contest is a very unique scenario in that these guys are professional basketballplayers.
Dunking is a part of basketball, but the people who are really, really good at dunkinggenerally aren't basketball players.
They're people who maybe play basketball, but they're not spending hours working on thetechnique of these dunks, right?
(14:49):
So an NBA guy who accepts, they may get three or four practices, right?
You're also in season.
If you're a guy who plays a lot, like there was a, I worked with Donovan Mitchell and theyflew us out to.
to go work with them in Salt Lake City.
He played an overtime game the night before and the team was like, no, you can't today.
So we went there and just talked, right?
We couldn't get any practice in.
Like they're the basketball side of things that obviously trumps the 15 minutes of thedunk contest.
(15:16):
So, you know, with that said, a lot of these guys are very underprepared.
So my job is to do a lot of the legwork for them, right?
They're going to come in with a few ideas of their own.
I want to make sure that they're going to make those, right?
So we're going to
We're gonna work on the technique to make sure we give them the best advantage to makethose dunks as possible.
And then given how much time we have, we're gonna try to suggest some things, right?
(15:39):
So somebody like Glenn, we're able to get four practices in, we're able to suggest a lotof things.
Some guys, it's only a couple of practices, we're suggesting less, we're trying not tochange too much to, know, it's a balance between getting them to try new things, getting
them to be confident, like there's a lot of psychology in this, right?
And you're going out there and you have to make your dunk the first try.
So you have to...
(16:00):
you know, balance out what you're pushing, what you're changing versus, you know, whatyou're just giving them the tools to do a little bit better.
There's some small technical things that we can do in terms of how you hold the ball,where you jump from, the angle that you take.
Like there's some small things that all do in there.
That's a lot of jump technique or dunk technique related changes, but it's very, verysmall.
(16:24):
It might be moving an inch here, might be.
establishing a step, your start point one foot further over or things like that.
And I'm not telling them what it's for.
I'm just saying, hey, stand here next time you do it and see how that goes.
Usually it goes better.
Then we're saying, okay, well, I'll make some notes.
And when I give them the notes, I'm like, hey, you're gonna stand exactly here when youstart this, things like that.
Well, it's so funny because the way you describe that is not terribly dissimilar from theway I would work on somebody's jump shot.
(16:49):
You know, I don't want to completely reinvent the wheel in a 20 to 25 minute workout.
I want to say, hey, I noticed this about your guide hand, try it this way.
Let me know how it feels.
And it kind of sounds like that kind of approach.
And there, there's a vibe and you get in there and you work with the guy and maybe they'rein their heads, their head a little bit, and we'll back off a little bit and kind of let
them work their way through it.
And, you know, we're not trying to change everything.
(17:10):
But, you know, it's the idea of like, these guys are not professional dunkers, they'reprofessional basketball players.
And we're not trying to make them go out and always do the craziest things possible.
We want them to have confidence and make their dunks and, you know, and, you know, givethem the tools to put on a good show for themselves.
not necessarily try to blow the world away.
(17:30):
know, although some guys do like Mac Mac and some of these guys over the years have donesome pretty incredible things, you know, it's not always about that.
Sure.
Now, you mentioned earlier, you revealed a little bit of your age talking about some ofthe predates YouTube.
I think it's about the time the podcast where you and I really revealed that we're oldguys.
Because when you say, know, Glenn Robinson the third, I immediately think about you and I,you know, being children and watching his dad.
(17:57):
And one thing I know about both of us is we're both tattoo enthusiasts, but your sleeve...
has gone in a little bit different of a direction than my sleeve.
You have some iconic dunking moments tattooed on yourself.
Our listeners are not going to have any idea what's going on.
But for our viewers, I don't want to be missing anybody, but I know for a minimum, youhave a huge Vince Carter piece and a huge Jordan piece.
(18:24):
And I imagine that these stem from hugely iconic moments of your childhood.
So, you know,
I'm imagining Chase that you working on the dunk contest is like a full circle like, wow,this is the thing I grew up watching thing.
absolutely.
mean, it was, I'm the kid that watched every moment of All -Star weekend, right?
(18:45):
Like every moment, it recorded everything if I could, went back and watched it.
Obviously the dunk contest you had to watch live.
Like I remember the Vince Carter dunk that I have tattooed.
I remember jumping over my couch.
I was so excited, like, you know, the whole deal.
So yeah, this was kind of an homage to the sport itself, but then it's getting more nicheinto All -Star weekend and the dunk contest and things that.
(19:08):
I never thought I would ever be able to influence or be a part of.
It's a little side note for my 30 for 31 days.
I lead the NBA NUC contest and assists.
So to be a person who is and was a huge fan of it, to be able to influence it, that wassomething I never thought was gonna be possible.
(19:28):
yeah, it's always a big joy for me to get that email to say, hey, here's your tickets andhere's your flight, blah, blah, blah.
It's never lost on me.
So yeah, I wanted to kind of put that in an ink, so to speak, hired a guy, Steve, who'sone of the most well -known artists around, Steve Butcher, he does pieces for NBA guys and
(19:56):
lots of realistic stuff.
He's done a bunch of iconic kind of Kobe pieces and things like that.
He did a couple of pieces on my arm.
He's from New Zealand, he actually flew out to California and just the timing worked out.
But with that, the very next day that I posted it, was on ESPN and it was on the jump andit was on all that kind of stuff.
Yeah, I was pretty crazy to see the reaction.
(20:18):
It's a really, and I mean, I'm not saying this to blow smoke.
It's a really good tattoo.
Yeah, I mean, that's insane.
The detail is insane.
So.
an incredible artist and whatever photo you give him, it's gonna look exactly like that.
Just so happens that these photos are from the 80s and 90s, so there's a little bit ofkind of age to them, but if you give them the most vibrant, the highest quality photo that
(20:44):
you could think of, it's gonna look exactly
It's funny you say this, something about our age though is actually helpful when lookingback on photos.
It almost like expands the myth of the event taking place.
So like when you watch Jordan or Dominique dunk in the late 80s and the film is a littlebit grainy, it almost helps you sort of imagine this like dream sequence of them dunking.
(21:07):
High definition has been great for sports, but that like grainy late 80s, early 90s, likeI'm even thinking like JR Rider, like East Bay Funk Dunk.
Those are those moments where they almost feel like a dream because of the way they look.
It's that.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work out for me and my social media with all the grainy footagefrom my days.
(21:28):
It's not good for throwback posts, but I wish it had that same effect on Instagram.
man, we're gonna, hopefully somebody listens to this that just does like dynamic videoediting and it's just like, I got you.
So I got one more question about dunking because I also want to talk strengthconditioning, which I know you're very passionate about.
(21:48):
But because you're in Las Vegas, I have a tie in for you.
One of my favorite movie scenes in my lifetime is the final scene of Ocean's Eleven, wherethey're standing outside the Bellagio and no one says a word.
They all just kind of look at one another and they're like, wow, we just did that.
We just did that and that's kind of how the movie ends.
I would ask you in your history because you've accomplished so much physically, do youhave what I would describe as a Bellagio dunk?
(22:16):
Something where like, cause obviously you're always thinking bigger and better causethat's how athletes work, but do you ever have one that you stuck where you can look back
in hindsight and you're like, I did that.
Yeah, I think so there's a dunk that I created.
I was first person to do, but I was also the first person to do it in contest.
we always like people who are dunkers, so to speak, there's, what we call like YouTubedunkers or like Instagram dunkers, people that can make a dunk, right, and post a video.
(22:42):
But it's a whole nother thing to go and do it in a live live event and be able to do itfirst, first try, right?
That's a whole nother level of mastery.
So with that, there's a dunk, actually taught it to Larry Nance Jr.
and he did it in NBA dunk contest, but
threw it off the backboard, jumped up, caught it in the air, threw it off the backboardagain, and I would reverse it.
So I did that and did that in a dunk contest, and that was the first time it had ever beendone.
(23:05):
So I really like, that moment was pretty cool to have something to show in history, likethat's mine, and anybody that does it from now on, they got it from that.
That's a pretty cool deal.
But with the NBA contest, just to add one more, specifically it was the ride to
the Dunk Contest in 2017, it was myself and Chuck, and it was Aaron Gordon and Derek JonesJr.
(23:32):
and Glenn in the bus riding over to the event together and knowing that history was gonnabe changed from there.
They were gonna be working with professionals from here on out.
That was a really cool moment to know what was happening in the moment.
It wasn't lost on how things were gonna change from
That's so awesome.
I'm so excited you got to have that too.
(23:54):
Last question before we segue, because now we're to talk about work for athletes and stufflike that.
But there's something I'm thinking about.
Because you're so scientific minded and I know a lot of coaches like this, what seemsnormal to you in terms of the work you put in and grinding every day might not be normal
to somebody else.
So I know you're going to answer this casually, which is kind of the intent.
(24:17):
But if you can give me an idea, how much time were you working every day?
to improve your physicality once you started making these discoveries in your early 20s.
give me a timeframe a day.
is on top of working, on top of having a mortgage, on top of having a wife, on top ofhaving all that other stuff, at least 20 hours a
So it's almost like wink, wink, nudge, nudge to our listeners.
(24:42):
Yep.
If you want to see improvement, you have to work for it.
It was no nonsense, it was an obsession.
It was like I changed the way, not just the simple stuff that you would think of, like theway you eat and the things that you drink or the way that you work out, the mindset, sort
of stuff.
I literally changed the way I would position my body to sleep.
(25:05):
It was that level of obsession to try to just maximize any little advantage that I could.
So we've actually never talked about this, but I keep that, I'm like a weatherman rightnow.
There you go.
That Spartan race medal I keep because basically I, summer after I finished my first yearof grad school, was 23 turning 24, I lost 40 pounds in a summer and trained like a maniac
(25:32):
and then ran an endurance race.
And I have this picture.
So like my Bellagio moment is I have this picture of my dad.
And you could see with my dad holding me after I crossed the finish line and I likecouldn't even smile.
I was so tired and you could tell just by the look on my dad's face that he was like, Ididn't see him doing that ever.
(25:52):
And I have a feeling that like as you started making those types of improvements, thoseare the moments that like give you that Bellagio feeling that we're talking about.
Like you probably didn't see what was happening, but once you got to, my God, the resultsare coming in.
a couple months down the line, I imagine that feeling is addictive.
Yeah, and it definitely wasn't even months it was like sticking to it for years right andit was you know, I I did I remember right in 2008 I remember writing down specifically in
(26:23):
a notepad like three goals and I wanted to be able to dunk consistently in games I wantedto be able to do like Showtime type, you know, I'm talking windmills and things like that
I wanted to be able this is way before I like I was barely making one out of ten ducks atthis time
I wanted to be able to do dunks like that in games.
And then I wanted to be able to hit my head on the rim.
Now I set that one as like an absurd goal.
(26:47):
In my mind, wasn't something I was going to And then it was just a matter of just neverquitting, never like stopping.
And it just continued to build and build and build.
And once I saw some success, it was more motivating to get in there.
Right.
But in the beginning, it was a lot of like, I'm in the weight room, I'm doing differentthings.
I'm doing things that nobody else is doing.
And you hear the Snickers, you hear the like,
(27:08):
why are you doing that kind of stuff.
And then fast forward years later, the people are like, hey, I was sitting at a bar and Isaw you on ESPN or whatever the case may be.
And I just like think back to those moments in training and like nobody really believed inwhat you were doing, but you stick to it for long enough.
You who knows what can
love that.
And I think this gives us a perfect avenue to dovetail into the science.
(27:31):
So first of all, I appreciate you sharing what you shared.
got like it was more personal than I was expecting.
So I really appreciate you sharing that stuff.
And it fires me up because it's the competitor in you.
So now let me ask at what point do you also realize, hey, there's an injury preventioncomponent to this and we're actually making people it's not just that we're increasing a
(27:52):
skill set, but like what we're doing is making people healthier.
and stronger and more physically resilient.
How does that come along?
So there's a few ways that people go about trying to make big changes in their verticaljump.
And a lot of it comes back to track.
In track and field, you kind of have this block periodization.
you get stronger.
(28:12):
You build a muscle up bigger.
You worry about strength.
And you worry about of transitioning that into a realization phase and making it show upon the track.
So you're kind of doing this longer term build for a specific moment.
Well, I was a basketball player.
And I was playing consistently.
So I didn't.
I didn't want to have this slow build, right?
So I started thinking about how to do things a little differently.
(28:34):
Did a lot of research into how long do certain strength qualities last, you know, thingslike max strength, you know, they'll maybe last about 28 days without training them.
Things like really quick, fast movements, like sprint speed and things like that.
They're going to last about seven days maybe without training them, right?
So with that, you know, I became to, I started formulating a plan on how I couldcontinually build all these things up all at once.
(28:59):
without having these big lulls where I just feel terrible all the time, right?
And in terms of like block periodization, if you're doing like a traditional block styleand you're doing hypertrophy block, you're gonna be sore all the time while you're
continuing to play.
Now, you have to accept some of that and you're gonna still have some of that, but the waythat you pair things together and plan, you can minimize some of those effects while also
(29:24):
still getting the greater global effects that you're trying to get over a longer period.
So it may not be the quickest way to do it, right?
In terms of like, hey, if I have a goal for 12 weeks, maybe I do a block periodization orsomething like that, right?
But if I'm thinking like, I just want to be the best that I can be for a long time, right?
There's ways to go about planning that I think are a little bit more effective to keep themain thing the main thing, which for me, dunking wasn't the main thing.
(29:49):
Playing basketball was the main thing.
So I just thought about things a little bit differently.
A lot of trial and error, a lot of trying different things and having things not work.
trying things and liking a certain part of it and keeping it.
So it's long -winded stay, a long, long explanation to say that, you know, there's a lotof research, a lot of trial and error and a lot of experimentation to find out what worked
(30:11):
for me, what worked for my body.
And if I do it for the person next to me, they may respond a little bit differently and wehave to find the dosage, the kind of appropriate level of volume and whatnot to make it
work for them without burying them as well.
sort of brings us to a subject that I think is really important, which is strength andconditioning at the high school level.
(30:34):
I have my reasons to sort of explain to young people, like if I work with someone in aconsult, and this even happened with someone I was working with last week, where I was
like, hey, there are certain things that if you seriously want to play at X level, you canget in a gym with someone that really understands how your lower body works and you can
become more explosive and you can work on your
(30:56):
you know, on your first step and you can work on your vert and you can work on youroverall, you know, speed and explosiveness.
So I think those are all important reasons aside from injury prevention, which isobviously the biggest one.
Longevity is the thing we're working to protect.
But, you know, I think that more high school athletes that are serious about, especiallyindividual sport focus should be doing strength and conditioning.
(31:19):
From your perspective, and especially given the type of clientele that you are workingwith at Project Pure Athlete,
Why do you want to see more young people doing this?
So like you said, injury prevention is first and foremost in that you're doing a sportdynamically.
You're running, you're sprinting, you're cutting, there's contact, there's so manyvariables that are dangerous in an aspect.
(31:46):
There are violent collisions, whether it just be between you and another person or you andthe ground.
Those collisions are violent.
So preparing your body for those collisions
is the best way to make sure you can continue to play day in and day out.
And as a sports coach, know, like the time matters, right?
So if I'm missing time because my knee hurts or missing time because I'm constantlystruggling with pain when I'm running or whatnot, those are missed hours to get better,
(32:11):
right?
So in order to kind of maximize our journey, we have to do enough preparation for our bodyto be able to withstand the loads that we want to put on it.
So with that,
you know, there's, you know, it's, I'm trying to think of the right way to say it, butit's, you know, it's, think it's, it'd be short -sighted not to include that almost the
(32:34):
whole way through the journey, right?
At some level, whether if it's at a young age, maybe it's just learning how to movebetter.
Maybe it's just some, some calisthenics.
Maybe it's, you know, it could be any number of things, but preparing your body to cut inand out of positions better, maybe help you cut safer, or cut safer, you know, helping
your body.
you know, do some light hops and skips will help it self -organize to be able to landsafer, right?
(32:56):
You can progress into isometrics and progress into some lighter loading and eventually youjust continue to build and build and build much the way that like a physiotherapist, if
you're coming in for an injury would start with a really low, a really low kind of on thescale of things that would start on the lower end of, know, shortening the movements,
lightening the load, teaching you how to just lower, right?
(33:19):
and then continue to add on layers and add on layers and add on layers.
That's the same thing we're gonna do with in the weight room.
If you have a longer term plan, it just starts lower, lower in the spectrum.
love the way you answered that because I think that'll be very easy for someone thatdoesn't have a ton of familiarity with the weight room to follow.
We all have to start somewhere and then we build on it.
(33:40):
And obviously, and I'm gonna plug this, you're gonna see links to Project Pure Athlete andCoach Chase's channel in the podcast description, but something else you'll see if you
click those links is some video footage of Coach Chase's two young kids doing some of thiswork.
So.
You are not only just giving this message, you're not like, I would say like someone thatworks in Silicon Valley that goes home and tells his kids not to use Instagram, but then
(34:07):
builds Instagram.
You want your kids doing the stuff that you believe in.
And with that in mind, you understand the human body.
You have a lot of this knowledge in your own training.
Is there anything that you're currently doing with your kids or that your kids are doingexercise wise that you would encourage parents of young kids to do with theirs?
So if nothing else, teach them how to warm up.
(34:29):
Include mobility in the warm up.
Like it could be some basic lunges in multiple directions, like forward, backward,sideways, things like that.
Teach them how to hinge.
Teach them how to push their hips back to get into the stretch there, stretch theirhamstrings out.
But then track drills, right?
A -skips, B -skips, C -skips, pogo hops, know, little simple things like that.
You just do those for a long enough period of time.
(34:50):
You you begin to get...
more athletic, especially at a young age.
There's a lot of, there's, you know, and my experience with some of research, there's alot of data that says that you build up a lot of your elastic qualities, you know, before
you're 10 years old or so.
You know, so those Pogo hops and A skips and B skips and C skips, those sorts of thingsjust are low impact ways to just build up some of those contacts while also building up
(35:13):
proper running form and things like that.
So they're just, I think, easy to learn, low, low in terms of impact.
and high in terms of long -term benefits in terms of what you're doing in of sport.
So a couple of times already, just as we've been chatting, you alluded to fear of anoveruse injury or overworking or overloading.
(35:37):
And I know in some of our previous conversations, just as we were getting to know oneanother before we recorded, we've also talked about, if you look at almost strength and
conditioning plus your sport training plus your actual competing as like a full plate anda balanced diet, where strength conditioning fits in.
So I would ask you, because
(35:59):
God knows someone's listening to this and a parent or a player is going, it's too much,it's too much.
What to you does strength conditioning look like as a supplement to an athlete's primarysport?
That's where having a coach that you can talk to matters, right?
And that we all have different demands in our sport.
Some people are just going to their team practices a couple hours a week and that's theirextent of their physical workout, right?
(36:24):
Others are, know, just like some of the kids that I know, they're putting in 20, 25 hoursa week at this.
With that said, the athlete that's putting 20, 25 hours a week, there's a high demand ontheir body already.
So the strength coach has to supplement
what they're doing in a smart way to not overload them with, if an athlete comes and saysthat they want to jump higher, immediately people will think about plyos and things like
(36:49):
that.
Well, if an athlete's on the court 20 hours a week, I don't necessarily want to go loadthem up with a bunch more plyos.
That's just more volume of high intensity contacts that they already have a ton of, right?
What that athlete probably needs is more tissue tolerance.
They probably need more general strength.
We may need to look at some, you know, some tightness issues that are limiting the waythat they move.
You know, so you need to think about training in a global aspect and not necessarily justlike everything needs to look exactly like what I want the output to be.
(37:19):
Right?
So not all jump training is jumping, right?
Sometimes jump training is slow movements, right?
And that's how you get the bigger benefits.
It's, you know, it's, I just like to think of it in terms of what's missing and then makesure we cover all the bases and then we can turn up the volume and turn down the volume on
things as, as we want to focus on.
love that.
(37:39):
And that's actually kind of a good segue into how I want to end with you because you'reobviously very invested in Project Pure Athlete right now.
You're one of the jump guys.
And I also know in addition to just, you know, the benefits of increasing your vert andincreasing your leg strength, you are really looking at physical development pretty
(37:59):
holistically and developing individualized plans for people.
So if someone is working with you either in person or remotely,
what can they kind of expect based on some of the stuff you just shared from Project PureF.
So I tell everyone that what I'm very honest and that what gets people to me is thejumping what gets people to me is the Jump technique and things like that that are a
(38:23):
little bit different than what other people are doing But that's probably the leastimportant part of what we're do especially for for basketball players, right with
basketball players The contact is where really things change, right?
So through my years of training I became a much better defender
became a much more physical player, finished through contact a lot better, right?
(38:44):
And so we optimize the way that we load, especially like upper body things that are alittle less direct to the sport.
We optimize the way that we load them to counter impact movements, So think if you're adefender, somebody's trying to hit you in the shoulder to turn you to get that advantage,
right?
We want to be able to take that contact to the shoulder and stay rigid.
(39:07):
So bump them further out, give us more time to stay in front.
or vice versa, like we want to have the core strength to be able to punch throughsomebody's shoulder and turn them if we're the offensive player.
So a lot of things that we do are going to be offset loaded.
A lot of things that we do are going to be putting us in athletic positions so where wehave to maintain a neutral core and a strong stable position while we're going through
other movements.
(39:27):
These, like I put so much effort and thought into overall design for the actual sport tomake sure that we're.
really covering the athlete as a whole and not just running, jumping.
Because running and jumping are two things that look good, but they're not the things thatyou're using all the time.
It's the deceleration, it's the contact, it's the resilience, it's being able to playlower and wider feet on defense, it's being able to keep your chest up and while you're on
(39:54):
defense in those low positions.
Those are the things that are going to make you a better player on every possession, notjust the two or three times that you get the opportunity to jump.
And what I'm about to say, really mean sincerely because I've actually talked to a youngathlete about something very similar to what we're talking about right now.
(40:15):
It's funny to me that you have shared that, you know, these were your original goals.
You wanted to increase your basketball playing career, get better at the game, be morephysically resilient.
And as a byproduct of those things, you started jumping out of the gym and then you setsome new goals and this happened and this happened and this happened.
And...
What I would encourage athletes that are hearing your story to really, really take homefrom this, because this has been super, super insightful coach.
(40:39):
I would encourage you remember that when you set goals and when you really start workingtowards them, the world also keeps spinning and you start accomplishing other things too.
And I would imagine that this journey has taken you places you would have never imaginedwhen you first got on it.
Is that a fair statement?
(41:00):
absolutely.
never had the goal of having a business in training.
Like I I worked full time before that, right?
You know, it was something that just a passion for improving myself, kind of a selfishpursuit, led to a knowledge base that was able to help other people.
And even then, was like I was helping other people.
(41:20):
I never had the idea of having the business, right?
At some point, I was thinking back about me as a 15, 16 -year -old kid who was reallytrying to get better.
what were the resources that I had to go through and I wanted to create a resource thatwas much easier to manage, right?
Somebody who had a blueprint already ready to help that athlete that was willing to put inthe work, was willing to do whatever it took to kind of reach that goal, but that didn't
(41:46):
have the know -how.
So that's kind of where I decided I needed to start putting this information out.
But it's just turned into a business through kind of people.
It's crazy to me that I just had two athletes, one from.
They were from Delaware and another from Pennsylvania this week, flying in and staying inVegas to come train with me.
Those things always blow my mind.
(42:07):
As a kid, I couldn't even afford a local trainer, much less fly across the country andstay there for weeks to train with somebody.
It's always humbling to have that.
I wanted this information to be out there for that kid, not necessarily for the business.
Absolutely.
And look at that.
We're stacking more and more of those Bellagio moments.
You you put in, you put in this work, you don't exactly know what you're going to get outof it, but you have goals and look at where the work takes you and enjoy the process.
(42:36):
And we can find more information by following you at Jump Guy Chase, checking you out atprojectpureathlete .com.
Again, those links are available in the podcast descriptions.
Coach Chase, thank you so much for jumping on and I really think they're super valuable.
Thank you.
yeah, thanks a lot for having me on.
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