October 22, 2024 • 52 mins
Jared here. In this episode, I sit down with Juli Fulks, Head Women’s Basketball Coach at Marshall University. We dive into Juli's fascinating coaching journey (which includes one of the highest winning percentages over the last 20 years of college basketball) and also discuss the types of recruits that drive success in her programs.
We discuss Coach Fulks’ data-driven approach to basketball and how her coaching philosophy has evolved over the years. We also touch on her recent success at Transylvania, which included back-to-back D3 Final Four appearances and a National Championship. You’ll hear how objectivity and adaptability combined to spark a National Championship run.
The second half of the interview is all about recruiting, and this is a MUST LISTEN for parents and high school athletes. Stay tuned to learn the recruiting standards of a National Championship caliber coaching staff, as well as what you can do to stand out if you’re navigating your recruiting process now.
Also, I don’t normally say stuff like this, but there’s also some really important stuff in here for coaches. Juli Fulks thinks differently than a lot of veteran basketball coaches in a lot of really important ways. This is truly an interview that has something for everyone in the basketball community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Something unique about basketball, coach, is that it can really take you to a lot ofdifferent places.
And if I had a pin that followed you around the country for your basketball journey, youare very well traveled.
So my first question to you, Juli, Fulks, how's West Virginia?
West Virginia has been awesome.
I love that you said well traveled.
(00:23):
grew up, my dad was a truck driver growing up.
And so I still remember, you know, back when there, I don't think we're seatbelt laws,they would take us on family vacation and they would give us the giant Rand McNally maps.
There are so many listeners who won't even know what I'm talking about.
And our only entertainment then was I would follow along in the maps as we went state bystate to different places.
(00:44):
And I think my parents love of going and seeing new places, honestly transferred to all oftheir kids.
And so it has just allowed me to always think about going different places and beingwilling to try new experiences.
And so West Virginia is not very far from the original home of Northwest Ohio.
And so it has been great to be here.
We're having a blast.
(01:05):
I love outdoor things.
We went whitewater rafting two weeks ago.
So it has been great.
That is that's fantastic.
And, you know, I know there's a there's a lot of new things.
So in one way, environmentally kind of feels like home in one way.
We're on the verge of all things new because this is your first four in D1.
And I actually want to start with that.
(01:27):
Something that I'm very, very privileged to kind of know as a coach is I know a lot ofoutstanding Division three coaches who frankly have been slept on.
Yep.
by greater people.
You had an amazing, amazing run at multiple stops at the Division III level, which we'lltalk about more in a second.
But I would just love to know from your perspective what makes now the right time andMarshall the right place to try to bring the Juli Fulks coaching philosophy to the
(01:59):
Division I.
Yeah, that's a great question.
laugh because everywhere I've been has been kind of 10 years, so on the decade program.
And I think part of that is what made it the right time in the sense that, you know, Ireally enjoy building.
And so I've never been a job jumper when people have reached out.
I really like the process of bringing young women in, helping them, you know, meet theirgoals on the court, off the court, and to really see that through.
(02:27):
And so for me,
You know, apparently it seems like it takes about 10 years for me to feel like I've donewhat I can do and need a different setting.
But both jobs had probably the same, you know.
setting as to what made me choose there and both of those was the amazing leadership.
(02:47):
When I visited Transylvania, it was very clear I was going to work for an outstandingathletic director who took our program to the, you know, not just women's basketball, but
took athletics to the top of the country.
And that was similar when Marshall reached out.
You know, there's a new president, Brad Smith, he came in a couple of years ago.
He's from Marshall.
(03:08):
He ran into it as a CEO and then came back to Marshall and he hired the athletic director,Christian Spears.
And when I came on the interview, it was just really clear that Marshall as a universityhas been doing really great things for the last couple of years and, has a great history,
but, you know, kind of on that next jump to amazing levels.
(03:28):
And when I had a chance to sit down with both of them and talk about their vision and whatthey saw
Marshall's University, not just athletics and not just women's basketball.
For me it was that that whole piece.
I really love universities and presidents and athletic directors.
I big vision that you can go do the things you want to do and aren't always caught up inred tape.
(03:50):
Only people that have worked inside higher ed really understand that last part.
But it's funny that you talk about vision.
Every time I chat with you, I am really fascinated by the way that you think.
I know, I've heard you tell other people that you're a systems thinker, but I also thinkthat the way that you think about work, basketball, leadership,
(04:18):
also allows you to be a forward thinker.
And there's a question I wanna ask you mostly because I think it's important for youngpeople to understand it.
Like I think if someone asked you, is Juli Fulks from her first year at Lewis and Clarkcoaching basketball the same way as Juli Fulks in her first year at Marshall, you'd yell
no at the camera.
(04:40):
But I would love to know the specific ways that
you think you've changed the most because of the way you think.
What are the key differences in those two 10 year jumps that you've taken from start tofinish?
Yeah, no, that's a great, maybe I should say I'm probably a scientist at my core.
(05:01):
That biology level, know, biology major in college has never changed in the fact that, youknow, I really think I naturally look at most things as a science experiment.
And looking at anything we do, whether it's offense, defense, leadership, development, youknow, you do different things.
And for me, I like to look at the result, analyze the result, and then figure out.
(05:25):
doesn't fit the mission of whatever we're trying to accomplish.
And obviously there's been a ton of mistakes along the way and all of those pieces too.
And so, you know, I think a lot of it is we all do this work on terms of figuring out whatour values and missions as coaches.
And, you know, now I know 21 years later, it's not just the basketball, it's probably thebasketball is the lesser of the amount of, I really want to help.
(05:52):
the women, the assistant coaches figure out what are their goals?
What are their goals on the court?
What are their goals off the court?
What are the things they're passionate about?
And I really think our job as head coaches is to help them meet all those goals.
And when you're able to do that and grow everybody, you know, it's inevitable that thingsare always kind of moving forward in the right direction.
(06:13):
And so, you know, I would say it probably changed everything.
And maybe it's because I'm just a lot more clear now on what we're doing, why we're doingit, how we're doing it, but with a lot of flexibility within that.
This is a really interesting response to me because I talk to a lot of young coaches and aquestion frankly that I wasn't prepared to answer when I was a younger coach in my mid 20s
(06:39):
was, so why are we doing that?
So like if I were to, would you say that like your why is more concrete now?
You're flexible more on how to get there though?
Yeah, it's more concrete, concrete.
It's more evolved.
And I think when you know, as you're, you're growing in any business, you know, you'refiguring out what actually does drive you.
(07:05):
And I probably made, you know, I grew up an athlete playing multiple sports.
And I think at the beginning,
I felt like it was the sports that were driving me.
And then what I realized over time is that's not my main factor that I get enjoyment outof.
It's watching anybody go through something in life and then finding a way through it andthen finding success from that.
(07:28):
And I think that's the part I really love.
I think whatever we all have as journeys, when we're able to help somebody else meet theirgoals, there's a lot of fulfillment in that for me.
So I want to talk about some of your more recent journey fulfillments.
The run over the last three years at Transylvania, as someone that is a big supporter ofboth you and Hannah Vero was just so fun to watch.
(07:58):
I believe the three year record was 91 and two, which even the biggest cynic would look atthat record and say, yeah, it's pretty decent performance.
win a national championship, multiple lead eights, make it back to a second final four.
But what's interesting to me is trajectory wise, it seemed like you were on your way therebefore the pandemic shutdown.
(08:22):
But the pandemic shutdown is also this really interesting time in Transylvania's sort ofjourney because you're sort of right there, you're sort of right there.
And then all of a sudden you sort of re-emerge in 2021 and you're a juggernaut.
I don't want to assume
but I'm curious if there was like any specific transformation by whether X and O's orleadership or team wise that happened that really, you know, accelerated that out of the
(08:48):
shutdown.
Yeah, you know, think lots of things happened during the shutdown that I think were reallyinteresting phenomenon.
for all of us, but you know, on the court.
In one, one of our core, you know, mantras for me personally, that is, you know, going toall of our teams is show up, work hard and adapt.
And we've always foundationally really believed in adapting.
(09:11):
And so whether we're adapting game plans to find a way to win or adapting behavior to be abetter teammate leader or whatever it is that we're adapting and changing, you know, we're
willing to do that and open to do that.
And I think
know, part of the piece of the pandemic that because we had adaptation as one of our corevalues that next year when we never knew who we're going to play, if we're going to play,
(09:35):
we were able to kind of ride that out.
I thought at a pretty high level and you know, the other piece of that was because.
We never knew who we were going to play and we had a physically big roster.
We had decided, Hey, we're going to go all in on zone.
You know, we've always done some sort of make mix, you know, recipe.
And I'm like, let's, let's try this.
(09:55):
I've never coached zone for an entire year.
And so we did that and it was really interesting.
you know, we, found ways to get through it and overcome problems and hurdles and problemsand hurdles.
And then the next year, when we kind of started on this 91 and two run, we went back towhat we were doing originally.
and full disclosure, our last scrimmage before the first game did not go well.
(10:18):
And we had lots of things going on off the court.
And I said, hey, let's just try to play zone.
Let's just play zone.
And they happened to be great at it.
And I thought, and then who knew that we're gonna win the next three championships playingall zone.
But the part of it I loved is it really made us as a coaching staff always step back andsay, why is this working?
(10:39):
Like this is not the normal.
This is not what people think should happen, and why are we able to do it, and what arethe pieces underlying the success that everybody is overlooking?
And now, if we were ever talking zone defense, I can easily list the reasons of why itworks and why I think it's kind of probably undervalued in a lot of defensive schemes.
(11:02):
But the biggest one I would actually align with is it is the far easier to teach if it'sall you're doing.
And so for freshmen, I can help a freshman be really great at their position in much lesstime than man-to-man because we know as coaches, I can set you up a thousand different
ways on man-to-man on defense to fail.
And so I thought that was one of the most interesting things for us was it was moreefficient in teaching.
(11:28):
there is a lot of pragmatic components to what you just shared.
And it kind of full circle goes back to your biology thing.
This is to me, scientific method.
Like here's the problem, here's what I hypothesize.
And then we literally just evaluate it and draw conclusions.
And something I know about you that I also want parents and athletes to hear, because Ithink it adds a lot of objectivity to coaching.
(11:53):
And, you know, I've heard a lot of young people and parents say, this coach playsfavorites, this coach...
does this, this coach does that.
You rely a lot on advanced analytics.
And I think that something that I really like about your coaching style is that a lot ofyour decisions are data driven.
I would love to know if there was something that caused you to lean further into that andhow those types of data driven decisions have potentially helped conversations with your
(12:19):
athletes.
Yeah, well for sure when I happened to be able to work with Tim Whites who's stillcoaching, you know, with me 21 years later, you know, he has an advanced degree in
statistics and his life is around statistics.
And so
I naturally gravitated to the math and then he honestly taught me a whole new level ofways to look at numbers and since then he has his own private company and he runs
(12:46):
analytics for several division one women's basketball teams.
So we had to figure out some how we're going to work that out now but.
You know, I think that was the one part that he and I really aligned with while I couldn'tdo the math.
We really liked looking at things from different perspectives and just always talkingthings out.
Hey, what about this?
This is what it seems like the math should say.
(13:07):
Does it say, you know, trying to figure out when you have these little data points thatdon't line up, why is that?
And how do we, how do we take advantage of things?
And so I think,
Naturally, I just really appreciate looking at things pragmatically.
And I think there's some real value in those pieces.
But he, sure, is the impetus for many of our successful formulas and data driven.
(13:34):
And it's a huge part in all of our game plans.
And it's different than, I mean, that should be the real plug.
Everybody should call him and hire him because it's different than what we get fromanybody in terms of game planning.
So building on that, because there were a few definitely not to the level of what you'retalking about.
And I think you and I are on the same page in terms of my understanding of math.
(13:56):
So, but building on that, I found that when I had data to point to, it made accountabilityrelated conversations easier.
Not saying it made them fun.
You know, I remember when I was 18 and I didn't like being told I was bad at anything.
But I think being able to show somebody, hey,
(14:16):
making decisions based on plus minus and this is yours or we're making decisions based onknow rebounding efficiency and this is yours or we've calculated how the last you know 16
possessions have ended in your hands and this is that.
Has it helped make conversations with your players more black and white in terms ofexpectations?
Yeah, I think so for sure.
(14:37):
while math doesn't always give us the whole picture, there's always things that it alludesto and displays.
And I think they can at least appreciate that they understand.
I we try to be very transparent on why our decisions happen.
Whether it's playing time or what we're doing on offense, what we're doing on defense,this is the reasoning and here's the math behind it.
I actually think one of the areas that it helps the most, and maybe people don't thinkthis way necessarily, is
(15:04):
shot selection, right?
Like we all know everybody's kind of going towards threes and layups and that sort ofthing.
And I think one of the ways to look at shot selection is also time to teach.
In my opinion, being an effective three point shooter for most athletes is the fastestthing that they can get effective and great at.
(15:26):
It's the same shot, it's predictable.
You can give me average effort in our program and I can get you above 35 % by the time youleave.
If we need to be great at attacking the rim and finishing, takes more time.
If we need to be great at interior play, takes the most time.
Well, besides and then, you like you talk about mid-range and to me, the hard thing aboutmid-range is you gotta be good from five feet, six feet, seven feet, eight feet, nine
(15:53):
feet.
And so when people talk about mid-range, they act like it's one shot, but it's really 15with defenders.
And so...
Some of the value I think in becoming great at understanding shot selection isunderstanding if you're going to give me this set amount of time, let's be realistic about
what you can get great at.
And not pretend.
(16:14):
that if you're giving us average effort, you're going to be great at being a finisher orsomebody shooting mid-range shots.
It just doesn't work that way.
And so I think that's, it's always helped us in terms of talking about shot selection andthat it really, shot selection is correlated to time in the gym.
And so the more shots you want to be able to take, the more time you've got to give us.
(16:37):
This is, wow, you have no idea that you just did this, but you just like alley-ooped me asegue, so thank you.
So much of your talking points here are about maximizing.
We're gonna maximize what you put in.
And so much of my current talk with recruits is how to maximize their standing withcoaches.
So as we kind of deviate into the recruiting process part, without attributing specificdata or.
(17:05):
points to you, I do want to say to our listeners, you who know about my research withrecruiting and my relationships as a coach, you were one of the people I really talked to
to make sense of some of the data I had.
And one of the things that you talked about that I know you'll be comfortable sharing wasyour stance on AAU and quote unquote elite high school basketball.
(17:30):
And, you know, something I was a little bit surprised by
when I got data back from the coaches was that whether it was D1 or D3, nobody seemed toreally care if the kid was on the best AAU team or the most elite prep team.
But if you flip that, the kids kind of play that misinformation maximizing game and theythink that if they're not on the best AAU team or they're not on the best high school
(17:54):
team, that they're minimizing their chances of being seen.
I would really love for the sake of educating young people to hear your take on this.
why is it not as important to you or maybe better said, like, why is the elite AAU team orthe prestigious high school team not going to be what tips the scales for Juli Fulks about
it?
(18:15):
Yeah, well I think, you know, maybe this is my own bias to my background.
I came from a small area in Northwest Ohio with parents that had modest incomes.
And so those weren't opportunities for me.
And a lot of times when I look at situations for players, you know, whether you own thebest team or, you know, just the team in your local area, they both have pros and cons.
(18:39):
You know, the...
depending on how many minutes you play.
And I think if you really were getting to choose what team you'd want to go on, I wouldsay I would want you to be on the team that actually develops and teaches IQ at a really
high level.
I think that would help players more than anything, but I think as coaches...
when you're recruiting so many games in the summer, one, we know not everybody's going tobe on the best teams.
(19:03):
And while that can be good because you're going against higher levels of competition,every positive is a negative, every negative is a positive.
can find the flip side to that is you're now playing less minutes and less is expected.
And so maybe on your high school team, you're the starting point guard and they have a,your success directly correlates to your team success.
(19:23):
And that has a level of pressure that matters.
And so if you don't play well,
a good chance that your team does not win.
Versus the counter side of it is now you're on the elite AU team and you're not asked toutilize two of your skill sets because somebody else does that and you play different
roles.
And so there can be real value in both of those.
(19:44):
And so I don't think for me when we're looking at players, we're trying to find elitetalent and athleticism.
I mean, there's just a baseline for all of us on kind of the level of speed and strengthand abilities that everybody has to have as the minimum.
And then just kind of wherever your path took you, I think most coaches are willing towork with you.
(20:04):
And probably because we've always done that.
We've had players that go through whichever circuit, that's great.
We've had players come from other sides.
And if you're able to be taught, you like learning and you go hard, I think you have thesame upside.
And so I think there's just value in both.
(20:26):
The funny you don't know this but the funny thing about the way you just responded is thethe guest that is appearing the week before you was a scholarship basketball player who
did not play a you so It's I'm not and it by the way that doesn't mean it's not a goodoption But to your point about it's different for everybody and we really don't go through
the same experience with every kid I think is really important, but
(20:48):
I got I got to even one better.
The national championship team are four starters who were in the same class.
Two played a you for elite teams and two did not play you.
And you know these are multiple year starters and people playing in lead eight Final Fournational championships who because of doing different things, multiple sports, whatever,
did not play you and.
(21:09):
They had pretty good careers.
And now you, just harkening back to something you shared previously, you were amulti-sport athlete.
Because I also know from talking to former athletes myself, a lot of them feel like theygot their most insightful coaching experiences, not from basketball.
Because in basketball, they were the top dog.
(21:30):
So it took like a coach from a different sport to teach them resilience, to teach themdiscipline.
Did you have a similar experience that you can relate to?
Well, I think the experience I can relate to is the best coaches that I played for were myvolleyball coaches in high school and they strung championship after championship after
championship and went, I don't remember the numbers now, 10 or 12 years in a row winningthe conference championship.
(21:54):
wow.
And when I started getting into coaching and now I can look back and I know exactly, youknow, the things they did and the reasons we were great, which kind of all the normal
things, they were great at building team culture.
We were great at the fundamentals.
The game was in some ways they kept it very simple and we were just better at all thethings that happen all the time.
But you know, still different things like every day they had set, you know, differentpassing partners so that there were no, you know, quote clicks within the group, just all
(22:20):
the different small things that they did.
And so for me, that was one of the
pieces.
I think being a multi-sport athlete exposes you to a lot more coaches and a lot morecoaching styles.
And so, you know, if you're going into coaching, that's a real win because you just havethat many more people that you see and understand how they do it different.
And, I'll be, I'm not shy about saying I wish players were still multi-sport athletes.
(22:44):
I think there's a lot of value.
It's great for the body.
know sports IQ kind of translates when you're learning different things.
think soccer players are great defenders because there's a lot of spatial similarities andyou know so I wish I'm one of the people that still wishes more people were allowed to you
know do multiple sports.
I think it's really good for young students and you don't always know at 13, 14 whatyou're going to love at 16 and 17.
(23:09):
do think that there is going to be a pendulum swing with that, especially as more and moredata comes out about injury and like overuse too.
It's really, really interesting.
now, so now let's flip this because we're talking about how, you know, there's differentways to find a kid.
There's no one right way to kind of get yourself recruited, but there also has to bethings that you see an athlete do on the home, like on the court where you see them and
(23:34):
you're like that kid.
So like
What does make a kid a home run to you?
Well, I think for us, I mean, if it's a home run, it's going to be somebody that has a tonof speed, strength and ability to just move like a high level athlete.
mean, rebounding is such a, it's tied to athleticism and work ethic, but it's really hardto be a great rebounder if you're just not a great athlete.
(23:58):
They don't really go hand in hand.
And so I think there's for me a baseline athleticism that we have to have.
And then,
an ability to see how they could become a multi-dimensional score.
So maybe you're coming in as a freshman and you're a great shooter that already has rangeand you're not particularly good at going both directions and finishing at the rim.
(24:23):
Or conversely, you're great at getting to the rim and we need to spend time extendingrange or whatever it is.
I like to look at them and say, okay.
can we see a bigger future than just what they're doing right now if given the coaching,skill time, and development, and creating an environment where they can learn and get
(24:45):
better.
I think that's probably one of the pieces that has become really important to me throughmy PhD research is to really think about
I get real nerdy with this and you can go like, know, the idea of potential energy is theenergy you store relative to your environment.
And so if you go conversely as basketball coaches, our job is to create an environment totap into every ounce of potential.
(25:08):
And so if we're not getting the most out of them, what do we need to do?
What do we need to change so that we can help them absolutely tap into every ounce thatthey have.
to ask you a follow up because I really like the way that you frame that.
I imagine just because I've recruited myself that you know part of your recruiting pitchto someone is here's the environment that we are going to aspire to create for you daily
(25:36):
so that you can maximize that ability.
If you then had the opportunity to kind of say the other part here's what we'll beexpecting from you.
Here's what we're expecting you to put in because I'd love for a high school athlete tokind of hear that.
What would your expectations be?
Well, you know, I think if I was lining out the most important is that you are trulyteachable and coachable.
(26:01):
And, you know, I think that's much harder than it always sounds.
And when we talk to freshmen about helping them learn to respond, because the most likelything when they come in as a freshman during teaching is they're going to be wrong.
and you you keep adding a lot of information and you know it's hard to remember it all andassemble it all and do it in a timely manner and so there's just a lot of correction and
(26:25):
that's expected normal and great.
And the piece that you're trying to hope with our freshmen, like we have a young lady onour roster right now, a freshman who is incredibly coachable and she gets lots of feedback
daily and takes it and smiles and fixes it and keeps trying and keeps trying and keepstrying.
Like she is what you hope all freshmen would be like or transfers, know, whoever's cominginto your program.
(26:48):
You know, for me, if you are that type of player, your ability is so much faster than ifwe have to work through every time I give you feedback, you have a
response and then we change.
If we can eliminate the negative response of whatever it is, whether it's I just beatmyself up and you know, have negative self-talk that's not related to the coaches or maybe
(27:11):
it's pushback to the coaches or you know, any of the negatives that we've seen, if we canjust get to the point where here's feedback, no emotional response change, it's a really
quick rise in their development.
And so that's what I would tell everybody, really thinking about how do I handle feedback,especially if you're coming from a place where most times you're the one getting it right,
(27:34):
and so the feedback is often going to your teammates because you're the best player on theteam, and so you're not used to constant feedback.
So that's a shift.
And so I think that's a really big piece.
And then...
you have to compare yourself to your goals.
And so I think the goal setting piece is really important because when we think about whatwe value on the court, there's no other way to look at it than does your time align with
(27:58):
your values?
And so if I want to be first team in the Sun Belt this year, that means I'm probably gonnahave to outwork 95 % of the other 12 teams to have that happen.
And even if I am genetically really gifted.
And so am I willing to put in that kind of work to have that kind of reward?
(28:19):
Because somebody is.
And so, you know, that is, you know, obviously outside of practice, getting in the gym,shooting.
And so for me, I think we always want players on our team that have really big goals.
And a part of that is aligning with how we behave with those goals in terms of being agreat teammate, in terms of our effort on the court, in terms of our work ethic.
(28:42):
And if you can align both of those and be really honest, that helps you in the collegeprocess.
You know, it's much harder when you believe you have big goals.
you aren't putting the time in to get those goals and so obviously you're not gettingthose goals and now you have to lie to yourself and tell yourself you're a hard worker or
you have to acknowledge hey I actually am not putting in the time energy effort to meet mygoals and so I either need to change my goals or I need to change my behavior.
(29:11):
particularly with what you just mentioned, there is a third party that can also greatlyimpact the development of these athletes that are going through that sort of mental thing
and that is parents and guardians and the families of these athletes because an athletecan look at you, their head coach, and say, I'm working really hard and you kind of have
your experience to lean on and the tape to lean on and you what they're doing day to dayto lean on.
(29:36):
But if they say to their parents, I'm working as hard as I can.
That's all I'm hearing.
I don't see them practice every day.
I have always really, really enjoyed listening to your take on parents, especially throughthe recruiting process, because I think you are more open to having discussions with
parents and certain types of parental involvement than other coaches.
(29:58):
But especially given what you just said about having habits that match up with your goalsand the things that you actually want to aspire to.
Can you talk parents through
how they could be the most effective advocates and representatives of their kids, bothkind of through the recruiting process and beyond, because I know you have experiences
with this.
Yeah, you know, I think parents, they're really valuable in the recruiting process.
(30:24):
you know, many of my great relationships have been, you know, with the parents.
Shoot, I'm much closer in their age now than I am, you know, the high school athletes andrecruits.
So I can relate better to the parents too now.
And so I think, you know, if I'm a parent coming to a visit, I would love if parents couldreally prep their daughters and...
(30:46):
what's important to you, because they know they're daughters, and then how do you askthese questions.
You know, I think anytime that as on myself or parents, we can help teach them the lifeskills that they're going to need.
You know, because it's the same thing when, you know, while now we're doing, we'reinterviewing essentially colleges to figure out if I want to play basketball there.
(31:06):
At some point, they're also interviewing and being interviewed for jobs.
And, you know, mom and dad are not there.
And so how can we use this process to teach life skills, which is helping them learn howto speak for themselves.
And then the parents and I can help guide them through that.
But I think that's a great first step for parents is help them really articulate whatmatters.
(31:28):
And hopefully parents really make sure they come up with truthful answers because they doknow their players.
And maybe what matters most is I go to the highest level I can attain playing time aside.
Maybe what matters most is I go to the next level, but I can start.
you know, their real goals are, I think that's a really important piece in the process.
(31:51):
And honestly, this will never change for me no matter the level,
I really want parents to also value the academic side because at the end of the day, youknow, even if they go here and then they play professionally, at some point we are
probably going to enter the real world.
And so I want them all to take advantage of the basketball court and the classroom.
(32:12):
so helping them find value in both sides, even if truly at 16, 17, maybe I don't value theclassroom side yet.
As adults, we do know it comes into play at some point.
And so how can we maximize all of the benefits that there
going to get so that when they leave, they are connected, they have great degrees, they'vehad a great basketball experience.
(32:34):
And then I would say when parents, once your daughters are in the college process, it's agreat reminder for parents to know, and I think it's important that we talk to our
players, there's always gotta be the people that you vent to.
And sometimes you vent for solutions and sometimes you just vent because you need to behurt.
And parents need to realize sometimes they're just always gonna be a primary venter.
(32:55):
And so they, you know, take things with a grain of salt because they could call them, ventfor five minutes and then literally be fine.
And mom and dad are sitting there and really, you upset or having emotional responses andtheir daughters have moved on.
And so you never know which of those occurrences happen.
But then the other piece is to remember you're not at practice.
And so you can ask questions.
(33:16):
You can encourage your daughters to go and talk to the coaches.
and helping them be really good at learning how to be an adult during the process, if theylike things, if they're not sure of things, that's a really important skill set.
And I think if everybody's on the same page, when I am working with parents about helpingtheir daughters meet goals, it's much better than if there's conflict between the two.
(33:41):
Love that.
So I have been asking my final question to everyone that's appeared on the second half ofthis podcast because ultimately this is an engine that is supposed to be an education base
for young people trying to navigate the recruiting process.
Knowing everything that you know now and your experience as both an athlete and amulti-decade coach, let's just hypothetically say you're 15, 16 years old again.
(34:06):
It's the year 2024.
So you have these instead of maps.
You can use this if you'd like.
But knowing everything you know now, how would you kickstart your recruiting process inthe year 2024?
You know, I think now because you have all the information, you just have so many options.
And, you know, it was much harder to learn about colleges back in 1996.
(34:32):
And so some of it was just who was mailing you what.
And that was kind of the end of it.
Who saw you where and.
You know, now I think because you have so many options, I think it becomes way moreimportant to set your values early.
How close do I want to be?
So does it matter to me that when I play a game, mom and dad are in the stands, grandma,grandpa, does it matter to me that when I play away games, it's still close enough for mom
(34:58):
and dad to get to?
Do I want to get away?
is my major gonna be the driving force.
I think you really now should figure out what it is that you value and why.
And then you can just type into the computer and it can help you a lot in terms offiguring out what might be a really good fit.
And while I say all that, the counter is a lot of times you still don't even know what youdon't know.
(35:21):
And be open to the idea of things you don't know.
mean, when Marshall reached out,
through a connection, I didn't know all the amazing things that have been happening in thelast three years.
And that change was one of the reasons I was willing to consider the job and think aboutthis job.
(35:42):
And so I didn't know what I didn't know.
And so if I didn't pick up the call and talk to the athletic director, I wouldn't haveended up here if I just made a blanket decision.
And so, you know, still do your research, but be open to the things that you don't knoware out there that may be the best fit for you.
love that.
This is, wow, this has been great.
it is, I just love, there's different people that I meet that I really just love hearingthe way they think about things.
(36:09):
So.
I, we both know we could talk math and basketball for a very long time.
And now baby, I can't wait to, know, for the post-interview baby session.
Yeah, the listeners, listeners, just so you're aware, the moment I stopped this interview,I'm bringing the baby in to meet Juli folks.
That'll be very exciting, but cannot wait to watch you in the squad.
Best of luck with the rest of your opening practices and your scrimmages and reallyexcited to see what Juli folks has to do with the thundering herd.
(36:33):
Thanks again, coach.
Thanks, Jared.
Always appreciate talking to you.
Absolutely.
Something unique about basketball, coach, is that it can really take you to a lot ofdifferent places.
And if I had a pin that followed you around the country for your basketball journey, youare very well traveled.
So my first question to you, Juli, Fulks, how's West Virginia?
West Virginia has been awesome.
I love that you said well traveled.
(00:23):
grew up, my dad was a truck driver growing up.
And so I still remember, you know, back when there, I don't think we're seatbelt laws,they would take us on family vacation and they would give us the giant Rand McNally maps.
There are so many listeners who won't even know what I'm talking about.
And our only entertainment then was I would follow along in the maps as we went state bystate to different places.
(00:44):
And I think my parents love of going and seeing new places, honestly transferred to all oftheir kids.
And so it has just allowed me to always think about going different places and beingwilling to try new experiences.
And so West Virginia is not very far from the original home of Northwest Ohio.
And so it has been great to be here.
We're having a blast.
(01:05):
I love outdoor things.
We went whitewater rafting two weeks ago.
So it has been great.
That is that's fantastic.
And, you know, I know there's a there's a lot of new things.
So in one way, environmentally kind of feels like home in one way.
We're on the verge of all things new because this is your first four in D1.
And I actually want to start with that.
(01:27):
Something that I'm very, very privileged to kind of know as a coach is I know a lot ofoutstanding Division three coaches who frankly have been slept on.
Yep.
by greater people.
You had an amazing, amazing run at multiple stops at the Division III level, which we'lltalk about more in a second.
But I would just love to know from your perspective what makes now the right time andMarshall the right place to try to bring the Juli Fulks coaching philosophy to the
(01:59):
Division I.
Yeah, that's a great question.
laugh because everywhere I've been has been kind of 10 years, so on the decade program.
And I think part of that is what made it the right time in the sense that, you know, Ireally enjoy building.
And so I've never been a job jumper when people have reached out.
I really like the process of bringing young women in, helping them, you know, meet theirgoals on the court, off the court, and to really see that through.
(02:27):
And so for me,
You know, apparently it seems like it takes about 10 years for me to feel like I've donewhat I can do and need a different setting.
But both jobs had probably the same, you know.
setting as to what made me choose there and both of those was the amazing leadership.
(02:47):
When I visited Transylvania, it was very clear I was going to work for an outstandingathletic director who took our program to the, you know, not just women's basketball, but
took athletics to the top of the country.
And that was similar when Marshall reached out.
You know, there's a new president, Brad Smith, he came in a couple of years ago.
He's from Marshall.
(03:08):
He ran into it as a CEO and then came back to Marshall and he hired the athletic director,Christian Spears.
And when I came on the interview, it was just really clear that Marshall as a universityhas been doing really great things for the last couple of years and, has a great history,
but, you know, kind of on that next jump to amazing levels.
(03:28):
And when I had a chance to sit down with both of them and talk about their vision and whatthey saw
Marshall's University, not just athletics and not just women's basketball.
For me it was that that whole piece.
I really love universities and presidents and athletic directors.
I big vision that you can go do the things you want to do and aren't always caught up inred tape.
(03:50):
Only people that have worked inside higher ed really understand that last part.
But it's funny that you talk about vision.
Every time I chat with you, I am really fascinated by the way that you think.
I know, I've heard you tell other people that you're a systems thinker, but I also thinkthat the way that you think about work, basketball, leadership,
(04:18):
also allows you to be a forward thinker.
And there's a question I wanna ask you mostly because I think it's important for youngpeople to understand it.
Like I think if someone asked you, is Juli Fulks from her first year at Lewis and Clarkcoaching basketball the same way as Juli Fulks in her first year at Marshall, you'd yell
no at the camera.
(04:40):
But I would love to know the specific ways that
you think you've changed the most because of the way you think.
What are the key differences in those two 10 year jumps that you've taken from start tofinish?
Yeah, no, that's a great, maybe I should say I'm probably a scientist at my core.
(05:01):
That biology level, know, biology major in college has never changed in the fact that, youknow, I really think I naturally look at most things as a science experiment.
And looking at anything we do, whether it's offense, defense, leadership, development, youknow, you do different things.
And for me, I like to look at the result, analyze the result, and then figure out.
(05:25):
doesn't fit the mission of whatever we're trying to accomplish.
And obviously there's been a ton of mistakes along the way and all of those pieces too.
And so, you know, I think a lot of it is we all do this work on terms of figuring out whatour values and missions as coaches.
And, you know, now I know 21 years later, it's not just the basketball, it's probably thebasketball is the lesser of the amount of, I really want to help.
(05:52):
the women, the assistant coaches figure out what are their goals?
What are their goals on the court?
What are their goals off the court?
What are the things they're passionate about?
And I really think our job as head coaches is to help them meet all those goals.
And when you're able to do that and grow everybody, you know, it's inevitable that thingsare always kind of moving forward in the right direction.
(06:13):
And so, you know, I would say it probably changed everything.
And maybe it's because I'm just a lot more clear now on what we're doing, why we're doingit, how we're doing it, but with a lot of flexibility within that.
This is a really interesting response to me because I talk to a lot of young coaches and aquestion frankly that I wasn't prepared to answer when I was a younger coach in my mid 20s
(06:39):
was, so why are we doing that?
So like if I were to, would you say that like your why is more concrete now?
You're flexible more on how to get there though?
Yeah, it's more concrete, concrete.
It's more evolved.
And I think when you know, as you're, you're growing in any business, you know, you'refiguring out what actually does drive you.
(07:05):
And I probably made, you know, I grew up an athlete playing multiple sports.
And I think at the beginning,
I felt like it was the sports that were driving me.
And then what I realized over time is that's not my main factor that I get enjoyment outof.
It's watching anybody go through something in life and then finding a way through it andthen finding success from that.
(07:28):
And I think that's the part I really love.
I think whatever we all have as journeys, when we're able to help somebody else meet theirgoals, there's a lot of fulfillment in that for me.
So I want to talk about some of your more recent journey fulfillments.
The run over the last three years at Transylvania, as someone that is a big supporter ofboth you and Hannah Vero was just so fun to watch.
(07:58):
I believe the three year record was 91 and two, which even the biggest cynic would look atthat record and say, yeah, it's pretty decent performance.
win a national championship, multiple lead eights, make it back to a second final four.
But what's interesting to me is trajectory wise, it seemed like you were on your way therebefore the pandemic shutdown.
(08:22):
But the pandemic shutdown is also this really interesting time in Transylvania's sort ofjourney because you're sort of right there, you're sort of right there.
And then all of a sudden you sort of re-emerge in 2021 and you're a juggernaut.
I don't want to assume
but I'm curious if there was like any specific transformation by whether X and O's orleadership or team wise that happened that really, you know, accelerated that out of the
(08:48):
shutdown.
Yeah, you know, think lots of things happened during the shutdown that I think were reallyinteresting phenomenon.
for all of us, but you know, on the court.
In one, one of our core, you know, mantras for me personally, that is, you know, going toall of our teams is show up, work hard and adapt.
And we've always foundationally really believed in adapting.
(09:11):
And so whether we're adapting game plans to find a way to win or adapting behavior to be abetter teammate leader or whatever it is that we're adapting and changing, you know, we're
willing to do that and open to do that.
And I think
know, part of the piece of the pandemic that because we had adaptation as one of our corevalues that next year when we never knew who we're going to play, if we're going to play,
(09:35):
we were able to kind of ride that out.
I thought at a pretty high level and you know, the other piece of that was because.
We never knew who we were going to play and we had a physically big roster.
We had decided, Hey, we're going to go all in on zone.
You know, we've always done some sort of make mix, you know, recipe.
And I'm like, let's, let's try this.
(09:55):
I've never coached zone for an entire year.
And so we did that and it was really interesting.
you know, we, found ways to get through it and overcome problems and hurdles and problemsand hurdles.
And then the next year, when we kind of started on this 91 and two run, we went back towhat we were doing originally.
and full disclosure, our last scrimmage before the first game did not go well.
(10:18):
And we had lots of things going on off the court.
And I said, hey, let's just try to play zone.
Let's just play zone.
And they happened to be great at it.
And I thought, and then who knew that we're gonna win the next three championships playingall zone.
But the part of it I loved is it really made us as a coaching staff always step back andsay, why is this working?
(10:39):
Like this is not the normal.
This is not what people think should happen, and why are we able to do it, and what arethe pieces underlying the success that everybody is overlooking?
And now, if we were ever talking zone defense, I can easily list the reasons of why itworks and why I think it's kind of probably undervalued in a lot of defensive schemes.
(11:02):
But the biggest one I would actually align with is it is the far easier to teach if it'sall you're doing.
And so for freshmen, I can help a freshman be really great at their position in much lesstime than man-to-man because we know as coaches, I can set you up a thousand different
ways on man-to-man on defense to fail.
And so I thought that was one of the most interesting things for us was it was moreefficient in teaching.
(11:28):
there is a lot of pragmatic components to what you just shared.
And it kind of full circle goes back to your biology thing.
This is to me, scientific method.
Like here's the problem, here's what I hypothesize.
And then we literally just evaluate it and draw conclusions.
And something I know about you that I also want parents and athletes to hear, because Ithink it adds a lot of objectivity to coaching.
(11:53):
And, you know, I've heard a lot of young people and parents say, this coach playsfavorites, this coach...
does this, this coach does that.
You rely a lot on advanced analytics.
And I think that something that I really like about your coaching style is that a lot ofyour decisions are data driven.
I would love to know if there was something that caused you to lean further into that andhow those types of data driven decisions have potentially helped conversations with your
(12:19):
athletes.
Yeah, well for sure when I happened to be able to work with Tim Whites who's stillcoaching, you know, with me 21 years later, you know, he has an advanced degree in
statistics and his life is around statistics.
And so
I naturally gravitated to the math and then he honestly taught me a whole new level ofways to look at numbers and since then he has his own private company and he runs
(12:46):
analytics for several division one women's basketball teams.
So we had to figure out some how we're going to work that out now but.
You know, I think that was the one part that he and I really aligned with while I couldn'tdo the math.
We really liked looking at things from different perspectives and just always talkingthings out.
Hey, what about this?
This is what it seems like the math should say.
(13:07):
Does it say, you know, trying to figure out when you have these little data points thatdon't line up, why is that?
And how do we, how do we take advantage of things?
And so I think,
Naturally, I just really appreciate looking at things pragmatically.
And I think there's some real value in those pieces.
But he, sure, is the impetus for many of our successful formulas and data driven.
(13:34):
And it's a huge part in all of our game plans.
And it's different than, I mean, that should be the real plug.
Everybody should call him and hire him because it's different than what we get fromanybody in terms of game planning.
So building on that, because there were a few definitely not to the level of what you'retalking about.
And I think you and I are on the same page in terms of my understanding of math.
(13:56):
So, but building on that, I found that when I had data to point to, it made accountabilityrelated conversations easier.
Not saying it made them fun.
You know, I remember when I was 18 and I didn't like being told I was bad at anything.
But I think being able to show somebody, hey,
(14:16):
making decisions based on plus minus and this is yours or we're making decisions based onknow rebounding efficiency and this is yours or we've calculated how the last you know 16
possessions have ended in your hands and this is that.
Has it helped make conversations with your players more black and white in terms ofexpectations?
Yeah, I think so for sure.
(14:37):
while math doesn't always give us the whole picture, there's always things that it alludesto and displays.
And I think they can at least appreciate that they understand.
I we try to be very transparent on why our decisions happen.
Whether it's playing time or what we're doing on offense, what we're doing on defense,this is the reasoning and here's the math behind it.
I actually think one of the areas that it helps the most, and maybe people don't thinkthis way necessarily, is
(15:04):
shot selection, right?
Like we all know everybody's kind of going towards threes and layups and that sort ofthing.
And I think one of the ways to look at shot selection is also time to teach.
In my opinion, being an effective three point shooter for most athletes is the fastestthing that they can get effective and great at.
(15:26):
It's the same shot, it's predictable.
You can give me average effort in our program and I can get you above 35 % by the time youleave.
If we need to be great at attacking the rim and finishing, takes more time.
If we need to be great at interior play, takes the most time.
Well, besides and then, you like you talk about mid-range and to me, the hard thing aboutmid-range is you gotta be good from five feet, six feet, seven feet, eight feet, nine
(15:53):
feet.
And so when people talk about mid-range, they act like it's one shot, but it's really 15with defenders.
And so...
Some of the value I think in becoming great at understanding shot selection isunderstanding if you're going to give me this set amount of time, let's be realistic about
what you can get great at.
And not pretend.
(16:14):
that if you're giving us average effort, you're going to be great at being a finisher orsomebody shooting mid-range shots.
It just doesn't work that way.
And so I think that's, it's always helped us in terms of talking about shot selection andthat it really, shot selection is correlated to time in the gym.
And so the more shots you want to be able to take, the more time you've got to give us.
(16:37):
This is, wow, you have no idea that you just did this, but you just like alley-ooped me asegue, so thank you.
So much of your talking points here are about maximizing.
We're gonna maximize what you put in.
And so much of my current talk with recruits is how to maximize their standing withcoaches.
So as we kind of deviate into the recruiting process part, without attributing specificdata or.
(17:05):
points to you, I do want to say to our listeners, you who know about my research withrecruiting and my relationships as a coach, you were one of the people I really talked to
to make sense of some of the data I had.
And one of the things that you talked about that I know you'll be comfortable sharing wasyour stance on AAU and quote unquote elite high school basketball.
(17:30):
And, you know, something I was a little bit surprised by
when I got data back from the coaches was that whether it was D1 or D3, nobody seemed toreally care if the kid was on the best AAU team or the most elite prep team.
But if you flip that, the kids kind of play that misinformation maximizing game and theythink that if they're not on the best AAU team or they're not on the best high school
(17:54):
team, that they're minimizing their chances of being seen.
I would really love for the sake of educating young people to hear your take on this.
why is it not as important to you or maybe better said, like, why is the elite AAU team orthe prestigious high school team not going to be what tips the scales for Juli Fulks about
it?
(18:15):
Yeah, well I think, you know, maybe this is my own bias to my background.
I came from a small area in Northwest Ohio with parents that had modest incomes.
And so those weren't opportunities for me.
And a lot of times when I look at situations for players, you know, whether you own thebest team or, you know, just the team in your local area, they both have pros and cons.
(18:39):
You know, the...
depending on how many minutes you play.
And I think if you really were getting to choose what team you'd want to go on, I wouldsay I would want you to be on the team that actually develops and teaches IQ at a really
high level.
I think that would help players more than anything, but I think as coaches...
when you're recruiting so many games in the summer, one, we know not everybody's going tobe on the best teams.
(19:03):
And while that can be good because you're going against higher levels of competition,every positive is a negative, every negative is a positive.
can find the flip side to that is you're now playing less minutes and less is expected.
And so maybe on your high school team, you're the starting point guard and they have a,your success directly correlates to your team success.
(19:23):
And that has a level of pressure that matters.
And so if you don't play well,
a good chance that your team does not win.
Versus the counter side of it is now you're on the elite AU team and you're not asked toutilize two of your skill sets because somebody else does that and you play different
roles.
And so there can be real value in both of those.
(19:44):
And so I don't think for me when we're looking at players, we're trying to find elitetalent and athleticism.
I mean, there's just a baseline for all of us on kind of the level of speed and strengthand abilities that everybody has to have as the minimum.
And then just kind of wherever your path took you, I think most coaches are willing towork with you.
(20:04):
And probably because we've always done that.
We've had players that go through whichever circuit, that's great.
We've had players come from other sides.
And if you're able to be taught, you like learning and you go hard, I think you have thesame upside.
And so I think there's just value in both.
(20:26):
The funny you don't know this but the funny thing about the way you just responded is thethe guest that is appearing the week before you was a scholarship basketball player who
did not play a you so It's I'm not and it by the way that doesn't mean it's not a goodoption But to your point about it's different for everybody and we really don't go through
the same experience with every kid I think is really important, but
(20:48):
I got I got to even one better.
The national championship team are four starters who were in the same class.
Two played a you for elite teams and two did not play you.
And you know these are multiple year starters and people playing in lead eight Final Fournational championships who because of doing different things, multiple sports, whatever,
did not play you and.
(21:09):
They had pretty good careers.
And now you, just harkening back to something you shared previously, you were amulti-sport athlete.
Because I also know from talking to former athletes myself, a lot of them feel like theygot their most insightful coaching experiences, not from basketball.
Because in basketball, they were the top dog.
(21:30):
So it took like a coach from a different sport to teach them resilience, to teach themdiscipline.
Did you have a similar experience that you can relate to?
Well, I think the experience I can relate to is the best coaches that I played for were myvolleyball coaches in high school and they strung championship after championship after
championship and went, I don't remember the numbers now, 10 or 12 years in a row winningthe conference championship.
(21:54):
wow.
And when I started getting into coaching and now I can look back and I know exactly, youknow, the things they did and the reasons we were great, which kind of all the normal
things, they were great at building team culture.
We were great at the fundamentals.
The game was in some ways they kept it very simple and we were just better at all thethings that happen all the time.
But you know, still different things like every day they had set, you know, differentpassing partners so that there were no, you know, quote clicks within the group, just all
(22:20):
the different small things that they did.
And so for me, that was one of the
pieces.
I think being a multi-sport athlete exposes you to a lot more coaches and a lot morecoaching styles.
And so, you know, if you're going into coaching, that's a real win because you just havethat many more people that you see and understand how they do it different.
And, I'll be, I'm not shy about saying I wish players were still multi-sport athletes.
(22:44):
I think there's a lot of value.
It's great for the body.
know sports IQ kind of translates when you're learning different things.
think soccer players are great defenders because there's a lot of spatial similarities andyou know so I wish I'm one of the people that still wishes more people were allowed to you
know do multiple sports.
I think it's really good for young students and you don't always know at 13, 14 whatyou're going to love at 16 and 17.
(23:09):
do think that there is going to be a pendulum swing with that, especially as more and moredata comes out about injury and like overuse too.
It's really, really interesting.
now, so now let's flip this because we're talking about how, you know, there's differentways to find a kid.
There's no one right way to kind of get yourself recruited, but there also has to bethings that you see an athlete do on the home, like on the court where you see them and
(23:34):
you're like that kid.
So like
What does make a kid a home run to you?
Well, I think for us, I mean, if it's a home run, it's going to be somebody that has a tonof speed, strength and ability to just move like a high level athlete.
mean, rebounding is such a, it's tied to athleticism and work ethic, but it's really hardto be a great rebounder if you're just not a great athlete.
(23:58):
They don't really go hand in hand.
And so I think there's for me a baseline athleticism that we have to have.
And then,
an ability to see how they could become a multi-dimensional score.
So maybe you're coming in as a freshman and you're a great shooter that already has rangeand you're not particularly good at going both directions and finishing at the rim.
(24:23):
Or conversely, you're great at getting to the rim and we need to spend time extendingrange or whatever it is.
I like to look at them and say, okay.
can we see a bigger future than just what they're doing right now if given the coaching,skill time, and development, and creating an environment where they can learn and get
(24:45):
better.
I think that's probably one of the pieces that has become really important to me throughmy PhD research is to really think about
I get real nerdy with this and you can go like, know, the idea of potential energy is theenergy you store relative to your environment.
And so if you go conversely as basketball coaches, our job is to create an environment totap into every ounce of potential.
(25:08):
And so if we're not getting the most out of them, what do we need to do?
What do we need to change so that we can help them absolutely tap into every ounce thatthey have.
to ask you a follow up because I really like the way that you frame that.
I imagine just because I've recruited myself that you know part of your recruiting pitchto someone is here's the environment that we are going to aspire to create for you daily
(25:36):
so that you can maximize that ability.
If you then had the opportunity to kind of say the other part here's what we'll beexpecting from you.
Here's what we're expecting you to put in because I'd love for a high school athlete tokind of hear that.
What would your expectations be?
Well, you know, I think if I was lining out the most important is that you are trulyteachable and coachable.
(26:01):
And, you know, I think that's much harder than it always sounds.
And when we talk to freshmen about helping them learn to respond, because the most likelything when they come in as a freshman during teaching is they're going to be wrong.
and you you keep adding a lot of information and you know it's hard to remember it all andassemble it all and do it in a timely manner and so there's just a lot of correction and
(26:25):
that's expected normal and great.
And the piece that you're trying to hope with our freshmen, like we have a young lady onour roster right now, a freshman who is incredibly coachable and she gets lots of feedback
daily and takes it and smiles and fixes it and keeps trying and keeps trying and keepstrying.
Like she is what you hope all freshmen would be like or transfers, know, whoever's cominginto your program.
(26:48):
You know, for me, if you are that type of player, your ability is so much faster than ifwe have to work through every time I give you feedback, you have a
response and then we change.
If we can eliminate the negative response of whatever it is, whether it's I just beatmyself up and you know, have negative self-talk that's not related to the coaches or maybe
(27:11):
it's pushback to the coaches or you know, any of the negatives that we've seen, if we canjust get to the point where here's feedback, no emotional response change, it's a really
quick rise in their development.
And so that's what I would tell everybody, really thinking about how do I handle feedback,especially if you're coming from a place where most times you're the one getting it right,
(27:34):
and so the feedback is often going to your teammates because you're the best player on theteam, and so you're not used to constant feedback.
So that's a shift.
And so I think that's a really big piece.
And then...
you have to compare yourself to your goals.
And so I think the goal setting piece is really important because when we think about whatwe value on the court, there's no other way to look at it than does your time align with
(27:58):
your values?
And so if I want to be first team in the Sun Belt this year, that means I'm probably gonnahave to outwork 95 % of the other 12 teams to have that happen.
And even if I am genetically really gifted.
And so am I willing to put in that kind of work to have that kind of reward?
(28:19):
Because somebody is.
And so, you know, that is, you know, obviously outside of practice, getting in the gym,shooting.
And so for me, I think we always want players on our team that have really big goals.
And a part of that is aligning with how we behave with those goals in terms of being agreat teammate, in terms of our effort on the court, in terms of our work ethic.
(28:42):
And if you can align both of those and be really honest, that helps you in the collegeprocess.
You know, it's much harder when you believe you have big goals.
you aren't putting the time in to get those goals and so obviously you're not gettingthose goals and now you have to lie to yourself and tell yourself you're a hard worker or
you have to acknowledge hey I actually am not putting in the time energy effort to meet mygoals and so I either need to change my goals or I need to change my behavior.
(29:11):
particularly with what you just mentioned, there is a third party that can also greatlyimpact the development of these athletes that are going through that sort of mental thing
and that is parents and guardians and the families of these athletes because an athletecan look at you, their head coach, and say, I'm working really hard and you kind of have
your experience to lean on and the tape to lean on and you what they're doing day to dayto lean on.
(29:36):
But if they say to their parents, I'm working as hard as I can.
That's all I'm hearing.
I don't see them practice every day.
I have always really, really enjoyed listening to your take on parents, especially throughthe recruiting process, because I think you are more open to having discussions with
parents and certain types of parental involvement than other coaches.
(29:58):
But especially given what you just said about having habits that match up with your goalsand the things that you actually want to aspire to.
Can you talk parents through
how they could be the most effective advocates and representatives of their kids, bothkind of through the recruiting process and beyond, because I know you have experiences
with this.
Yeah, you know, I think parents, they're really valuable in the recruiting process.
(30:24):
you know, many of my great relationships have been, you know, with the parents.
Shoot, I'm much closer in their age now than I am, you know, the high school athletes andrecruits.
So I can relate better to the parents too now.
And so I think, you know, if I'm a parent coming to a visit, I would love if parents couldreally prep their daughters and...
(30:46):
what's important to you, because they know they're daughters, and then how do you askthese questions.
You know, I think anytime that as on myself or parents, we can help teach them the lifeskills that they're going to need.
You know, because it's the same thing when, you know, while now we're doing, we'reinterviewing essentially colleges to figure out if I want to play basketball there.
(31:06):
At some point, they're also interviewing and being interviewed for jobs.
And, you know, mom and dad are not there.
And so how can we use this process to teach life skills, which is helping them learn howto speak for themselves.
And then the parents and I can help guide them through that.
But I think that's a great first step for parents is help them really articulate whatmatters.
(31:28):
And hopefully parents really make sure they come up with truthful answers because they doknow their players.
And maybe what matters most is I go to the highest level I can attain playing time aside.
Maybe what matters most is I go to the next level, but I can start.
you know, their real goals are, I think that's a really important piece in the process.
(31:51):
And honestly, this will never change for me no matter the level,
I really want parents to also value the academic side because at the end of the day, youknow, even if they go here and then they play professionally, at some point we are
probably going to enter the real world.
And so I want them all to take advantage of the basketball court and the classroom.
(32:12):
so helping them find value in both sides, even if truly at 16, 17, maybe I don't value theclassroom side yet.
As adults, we do know it comes into play at some point.
And so how can we maximize all of the benefits that there
going to get so that when they leave, they are connected, they have great degrees, they'vehad a great basketball experience.
(32:34):
And then I would say when parents, once your daughters are in the college process, it's agreat reminder for parents to know, and I think it's important that we talk to our
players, there's always gotta be the people that you vent to.
And sometimes you vent for solutions and sometimes you just vent because you need to behurt.
And parents need to realize sometimes they're just always gonna be a primary venter.
(32:55):
And so they, you know, take things with a grain of salt because they could call them, ventfor five minutes and then literally be fine.
And mom and dad are sitting there and really, you upset or having emotional responses andtheir daughters have moved on.
And so you never know which of those occurrences happen.
But then the other piece is to remember you're not at practice.
And so you can ask questions.
(33:16):
You can encourage your daughters to go and talk to the coaches.
and helping them be really good at learning how to be an adult during the process, if theylike things, if they're not sure of things, that's a really important skill set.
And I think if everybody's on the same page, when I am working with parents about helpingtheir daughters meet goals, it's much better than if there's conflict between the two.
(33:41):
Love that.
So I have been asking my final question to everyone that's appeared on the second half ofthis podcast because ultimately this is an engine that is supposed to be an education base
for young people trying to navigate the recruiting process.
Knowing everything that you know now and your experience as both an athlete and amulti-decade coach, let's just hypothetically say you're 15, 16 years old again.
(34:06):
It's the year 2024.
So you have these instead of maps.
You can use this if you'd like.
But knowing everything you know now, how would you kickstart your recruiting process inthe year 2024?
You know, I think now because you have all the information, you just have so many options.
And, you know, it was much harder to learn about colleges back in 1996.
(34:32):
And so some of it was just who was mailing you what.
And that was kind of the end of it.
Who saw you where and.
You know, now I think because you have so many options, I think it becomes way moreimportant to set your values early.
How close do I want to be?
So does it matter to me that when I play a game, mom and dad are in the stands, grandma,grandpa, does it matter to me that when I play away games, it's still close enough for mom
(34:58):
and dad to get to?
Do I want to get away?
is my major gonna be the driving force.
I think you really now should figure out what it is that you value and why.
And then you can just type into the computer and it can help you a lot in terms offiguring out what might be a really good fit.
And while I say all that, the counter is a lot of times you still don't even know what youdon't know.
(35:21):
And be open to the idea of things you don't know.
mean, when Marshall reached out,
through a connection, I didn't know all the amazing things that have been happening in thelast three years.
And that change was one of the reasons I was willing to consider the job and think aboutthis job.
(35:42):
And so I didn't know what I didn't know.
And so if I didn't pick up the call and talk to the athletic director, I wouldn't haveended up here if I just made a blanket decision.
And so, you know, still do your research, but be open to the things that you don't knoware out there that may be the best fit for you.
love that.
This is, wow, this has been great.
it is, I just love, there's different people that I meet that I really just love hearingthe way they think about things.
(36:09):
So.
I, we both know we could talk math and basketball for a very long time.
And now baby, I can't wait to, know, for the post-interview baby session.
Yeah, the listeners, listeners, just so you're aware, the moment I stopped this interview,I'm bringing the baby in to meet Juli folks.
That'll be very exciting, but cannot wait to watch you in the squad.
Best of luck with the rest of your opening practices and your scrimmages and reallyexcited to see what Juli folks has to do with the thundering herd.
(36:33):
Thanks again, coach.
Thanks, Jared.
Always appreciate talking to you.
Absolutely.
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