October 29, 2024 • 45 mins
Jared here, and this week I’m on a mission to better educate the basketball consuming public about Ivy League Hoops. The person here to help me accomplish this mission is quite qualified.
I’m joined by reigning Ivy League Coach of the Year Megan Griffith, Head Coach of Columbia Women’s Basketball. Coach Griffith’s dedication to building a powerhouse program in New York City has led to historic success for the Lions, and we’re going to talk about every component of that success.
As an alum and former pro player, Coach G shares her journey from Columbia student-athlete to becoming the winningest coach in program history. You’ll learn about her “Columbia EDGE” philosophy and how it guides her players on and off the court. Coach G also opens up about what it means to truly represent New York City, from recruiting a globally diverse roster to fostering an authentic connection with the local community.
Then it’s time for the myth-busting!!!
Coach G will walk you through what it takes to succeed as an Ivy League student-athlete and also provide advice for young athletes navigating the recruiting process. If you're a player, coach, or fan of college basketball looking to be better informed, this episode is packed with actionable insights.
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Have a question that you’d like answered by me or a guest? Have an idea for an episode topic? Have no suggestions but just want to say hello? Email me at RecruitingGEAR@gmail.com
To obtain more information about my coaching services or to check out the book, visit www.nailtherecruitingprocess.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
This is, I just always get excited because you have great energy and I'm just alwaysexcited to talk to you, but you also are like my Manhattanite still.
So how is life on the way up or west side?
It's been great.
It's been great.
We've had some great fall weather.
No, in all seriousness, it's, you know, I love it up here and I'm excited for the year.
(00:22):
You know, it's hard to believe this is where we are right now.
Our first scrimmage is tomorrow on the brink of a season.
So it's an exciting time.
It's, if I zoom out a little bit, I feel like it's been a very exciting time for Columbiawomen's basketball recently.
And, you know, I love the X's and O's of basketball, but I also know that, you know, youhave a contagious energy and we're all about the feels too.
(00:49):
I have a couple of memories from last March, like really etched into my mind with onebeing like a full form tackle of Ty Cordell.
when it's pronounced that Columbia is heading to their first NCAA tournament.
So I want to ask you about this because you are an alum of Columbia with coachingexperience at another Ivy League school.
(01:13):
You come back and you are now the winningest head coach in program history and thisprogram has achieved new heights.
Can you walk me through what that must feel like for someone with such a deep connectionto Manhattan and to this program?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, mean, it's so much.
There's this enormous sense of gratitude I have just to be at Columbia.
(01:34):
I mean, that's the first thing I always lead with is the people that I've been able tobuild this program with and grow.
You Tyler, you mentioned Tyler.
We've been working on it for 12 years, right?
So for us to be able to reach this point in this program when it was something that wastold that couldn't be done by a lot of people, friends and not, it was just, you know.
(01:57):
a kind of culmination of all the things that, was the ultimate form of delayedgratification.
That's what I would say.
Yeah, sorry for my lack of, I stumbled over myself little, but it's delayed gratificationversus instant gratification and for eight years building something and to see it all come
together in a way where, and we didn't even know that was gonna happen, right?
(02:18):
We didn't know, that's how genuine and authentic that reaction was.
It's been unique, this process has been special.
The journey has been very up and down, but I'm immensely proud of what we've been able tobuild over time, and I just don't think we've missed any steps.
That's what I'm most proud and grateful for.
something we talk to our players about a lot is when it comes to growing, can't skip anysteps.
(02:43):
I imagine when you're kind of looking back on it, that makes it feel even more rewardingfor you.
Definitely, definitely.
That's the part.
It's also the most humbling part of a journey, right, is if you grow the right way, if youlay the foundation, then you do, you're not thinking about the windows yet, you gotta put
the foundation and the bricks and make sure that everything is level and even.
(03:05):
Then you start building, especially in a place that's never won before, right?
Like I played here, Columbia's home for me, but there's been no winning tradition here.
There've been no championships here, right, individual basketball.
So.
to do something that's never been done, one, not only do you have to do it your own way,you can't follow this blueprint, there is no blueprint, but to then be able to do
(03:26):
something at home the right way, not miss a beat, like I said, it's humbling, but it'salso extremely rewarding, and it keeps you excited about the next thing, knowing there is
another step.
And something that's really unique, know, having, it's been very cool to know you and towatch this grow as you, you know, as you got your start there.
(03:51):
One of the things that I also have loved about this build for you is what appears at leastobjectively to be a very genuine relationship that you have built as a program with the
city of Manhattan.
Mm-hmm.
You know, for listeners who don't really have an appreciation for this, there's, you know,the subway basically goes through Columbia.
(04:12):
You're a one subway away from just about everything uptown.
And you are starting to get great crowds.
You're starting to get significantly more local investment.
As someone that has spent so much time in Manhattan, can you describe what it's been liketo have a team and a staff that is so bought into building a relationship with New York
(04:34):
City?
Yeah, you gotta be a New Yorker.
You know, if you're gonna be here, you gotta reflect the place that you are, right, orwhere you're living, or what you're trying to sell and advertise to people.
And that's the thing is that when we put together this staff, especially Ty and I, who'vebeen together this whole time, that was our big thing is like, we're gonna make our team
synonymous with New York.
(04:54):
We're gonna match it in terms of personnel, we're gonna match it in terms of the energy,you know, like they're just a different energy in New York City.
when we put the staff and team together, that was the intention, right?
That's why people were like, why did you go international?
And I'm like, because that's what New York City is.
It's a melting pot, right?
It's people from all over the world, cultures, everybody looks different, everybody's froma different part of the world, it's global.
(05:18):
And you can also be yourself and there's something for everybody here.
So that's the thing I love the most about it is when building that in my experience as astudent athlete, I also felt that no matter if you're winning or losing basketball games,
the experience here is very real, it's very authentic.
people are who they are through and through, and they find themselves.
So that's something that I think our program has really taken ownership of is that we'regonna be a reflection of the city, we're gonna be one with the city, but we have to get to
(05:43):
know the city too.
Like we can't impose ourselves on it.
So the grassroots stuff, the civic engagement and community service is really important toour program because we've been able to get to know our community as well.
And that's allowed us to bring people in, right?
The fact that, you know, when I first took the job again,
I could walk around anywhere, even just literally outside the gym or on campus and nobodyknew who I was, who our players were.
(06:08):
And in the last three years, I'm on a train to Flushing Meadows to watch the US Open andsomebody's like, hey coach, great season.
I went to the business school, I caught your game this year.
And I'm like, what?
Just so out of context.
That's happening, not just to me, but all of our players.
Abby Shue graduates last year, arguably the most famous person on campus all year, right?
(06:30):
It's just special to see how if you open your arms up to people in New York City, it'sgoing to like swallow you up and return.
is so awesome.
I can, you know, I know I've shared this with you previously, you know, having familythat's from there.
It's very cool to see your staff's approach because I think that reciprocal energy is verymuch a Manhattan thing.
(06:51):
It is a unique city where if you, if your energy is not, I'm putting myself out there.
It's very easy to just be an ant in Manhattan and not be noticed and walk by.
Right.
But if your arms are out in Manhattan,
The city embraces you and it's just so cool to see that.
totally.
(07:12):
You on the subject of having some international flair to your team, you also playedinternationally after your collegiate career.
Something that really impressed me about your staff when I first got to know you workingcamps way back when was the way that you guys worked players out individually.
And it looked like it was done pro style.
(07:35):
Something that I talked to a lot of young recruits about is
the intention or frankly coach the lack thereof when they do workouts.
And as I've seen your program develop, one of my kind of hypotheses was their work behindthe scenes is really intentional and really deliberate on position.
(07:57):
And their staff is filled with people that are really looking at very specific details ofwhat they do.
And I've always wondered now I have the platform to ask you this publicly.
Does some of your professional experience sort of influence what the work looks like foryour individual athletes behind this?
Definitely, you know, it's unique.
(08:18):
When I grew up, you know, I did some one-on-one personal training a little bit.
Like, it wasn't this big thing that it's become now.
So I didn't have like a trainer.
You know, I did camps and I would work out with somebody like down the street basicallythat was a phenomenal mentor to me.
But it wasn't like the most consistent thing.
I was doing it maybe once every couple weeks.
You know, so, and I loved the game and I loved sports, but I just don't think it was asubiquitous as it is now in terms of training.
(08:44):
Like it's just everywhere, right?
But with me going overseas and really honing in on my craft, one, I learned how to workhard and work with intention.
Like I knew the difference between being in the gym for two hours and getting a good 45minute workout in where I got better, right?
And the efficiencies, you know, I'm not, you know, right now you can't see I'm five foot,I'm five five, right?
(09:05):
So I'm not six foot tall, I'm not six two, I'm on a big guard.
I was a good athlete but I wasn't like the best skilled player.
I knew that I had to get my inches in other places so I had to.
to figure out what those were and when I went overseas I actually had a lot of differentcoaches.
One of my coaches was really great just in terms of being a student of the game.
(09:25):
And I got to really get into film study and learning systems and game planning with mystaff and everything that went along with that was how to put the ball in places for
players, how to make people better.
Not just the way that, I knew how to make plays in college, that was something I alwaysdid as a point guard but.
I just understood more like why this, why you would do this in this situation.
(09:47):
And then I just started studying it more, honestly.
When I came back, that was the bridge for me between seasons was to train young students,right?
Young athletes.
And that's when I started really studying the game, the movements, the efficiencies, allthat.
So that experience was absolutely a blessing for me in this coaching career.
So I don't want to go super rough script here, but something you said just kind of poppeda thought into my mind, which is you have legit pros now coming out of Columbia.
(10:17):
I mean, you got two players that were drafted by WNBA teams.
You have an international three on three superstar.
And is there a translation there?
Do you think maybe like a goal now?
Big picture is can we get
athletes thinking a bit more critically about the minutiae of what they do while they'rein college.
(10:39):
Definitely, that's part of our recruiting message, right?
I say to players that you come to Columbia Women's Basketball to train like a pro on thecourt, but train like a pro in the classroom as well.
And you can really do both at a high level, but your priorities, your time management, allof that is just so critical in that process.
Not just because you're an Ivy League school, let's all remember we're an Ivy Leagueschool, one of the best institutions in the world, but because that's how intentional you
(11:03):
have to be with your work if you want to be really special in your field, right?
Whether that's basketball, whether that's science, whether that's
econ, whatever it is, you have to be that intentional.
So that's how we recruit.
And sometimes that's too intense for people, I'm not gonna lie.
But I've learned that it's way better to be honest and direct in that recruiting process,and so that people know what they're gonna get.
(11:24):
We have open practices.
like, come watch our practice.
You need to know what it's like.
Not just watch us on game day.
Come watch us at practice when we aren't, everything doesn't look perfect, right?
We're not making every shot.
It's not the fans, you're not getting caught up in the atmosphere, but.
you're seeing what we do and how much work that takes.
So that's part of our recruiting message is that we want to recruit and coach pros.
(11:46):
the of that recruiting message.
I'd love it if you could help me out with a little bit of myth busting here.
I don't think enough people understand what Ivy League basketball actually is.
mean, obviously having followed your program, you I know that you made a run to thechampionship of the WMIT, then the next season go to the NCAA tournament.
(12:07):
And I also know that, you know, most of your conference
can go toe to toe with most schools in the country regardless of their conferenceaffiliation.
What do you think is most misunderstood by like the average kid or average family aboutIvy League basketball?
(12:27):
Well, I think the relevance in the grand scheme of Division 1 is the number one myth,Because there's so many, now that there's not even Power 5, there's Power 4, all of these
teams got split up, the conference realignments, there's so many teams now in each one ofthese Power 4 conferences.
They just have more opportunity to be higher ranked, right?
(12:47):
Because they're playing more teams of that caliber.
The conferences aren't as spread out as it used to be.
But the Ivy League sits literally right below them and the Big East.
Us and the Big East are going head to head every year in terms of where we sit as aconference in the net rankings of college basketball.
So for the Ivy League, we're literally at the pinnacle of mid-major basketball andtouching high-major basketball.
(13:11):
And only thing that separates us is football, right?
Basically, that's just what it is.
The bowl series, our team, don't compete in the bowl series, our football team programs.
So that's why we couldn't, we aren't gonna be a part of those Power 4 football bowl seriesconferences.
So, you know, honestly, coming back to basketball, for us, you know, the net rankings is abig thing.
(13:32):
It kind of tells you, like, it's like strength of schedule, how you do, how your opponentsdo, when they go play other people, et cetera, et It's this big formula.
Us, Princeton, Harvard, and Penn, like, has all been in the top 100, top 150 the lastthree to four seasons, right?
Us and Princeton.
have been in the top 25 of that in the last two seasons, right?
(13:53):
So you're looking at programs that are not just, we're not just telling you that we're oneof the best in the country, we actually are one of the best in the country.
And we have to prove that in November and December, you know, because when we get intoconference play, obviously we're all playing each other.
We just don't have as many opportunities beyond January to do that.
So that's one of the big fundamental differences, honestly.
(14:14):
But our conference is really strong.
especially in the women's basketball side, our men's teams are also getting a lot betteras well, top to bottom.
Yeah, it's always interesting because you know, I'll post something about division one ordifference in divisions and I'll always have somebody comment like hey, you know, not all
division ones are created equal like you could end up at an Ivy League school and I haveto kind of respond like yes and that means you you know might beat most of the high mid
(14:38):
majors you play right?
Yeah, we can end up playing, know in a sold out Kansas Arena for WNIT championship.
What a a what a sad experience that would be.
Totally, totally.
I think that this NIL world we're in right now is also changing the way people are talkingor thinking about the Ivy League, because I think people are assuming we're not being
(15:02):
proactive in that space, right?
I think it's just going to look really different.
I can speak on behalf of our program, but pay for play is like a thing now, right?
You know, the Ivy League values don't necessarily align with that, but that doesn't meanwe're not gonna try to help our student athletes activate their name, and likeness while
they're here, right?
That's something that's very important to me.
(15:22):
I know that's important to some of my counterparts, but there are absolutely opportunitiesthat will be either paralleled or look different than what they're receiving at some of
these other places.
So I think the NIL space has really also changed the lens of how people think aboutDivision I basketball now.
makes tons of sense.
have one final question for you before we dive into like the recruiting component of this.
(15:45):
Something that always stood out to me like the very first time I met you was your talk toplayers and prospective student athletes about having an edge.
And I know that you actually use edge as an acronym.
And I think for anybody listening, it's really, it would be really cool for them to hearyour definition.
So for, for coach Megan Griffith.
(16:07):
What does it mean to play with an edge?
Right, so, you know, this is our mantra, it's our internal theme, you know, it wassomething that was like, super sacred to me, but it's also something that we, like, we
want people to know about because, you know, there's a couple of meanings behind it.
When I came back to Columbia, I was like, we need one thing that's gonna like be ourthing, like something we talk about, it resonates with me, it resonates with you.
(16:28):
And so we've defined it pretty clearly, you know, I think the number one part is I've justalways believed in having edges in life, right?
People talk a lot about gaining inches in places, and that's how it's like compoundinterest, right?
So for me, it's the same way I look about having edges.
And I was like that underdog mentality player, right?
So that's the number one.
So how we define edge for our players, you know, it's energy, discipline, and excellence.
(16:50):
So energy we say is being a great teammate.
And what does that look like, right?
So being a great teammate means we have one shared ego, right?
And that's really critical to us to understand that how we impact each other and howdecisions affect one another.
know, discipline, we talk about owning choices, right?
Ownership is just such an important, accountability and ownership right now, such animportant part of your process and your growth process.
(17:13):
And you know, again, this domino effect of what I do affects you, Jared, what you doaffects Ty, right?
So again, if we're gonna be a team, we have to understand that grit is having a growthmindset and with growth, feedback is inevitable, failure is inevitable.
We talk a lot about failing fast, right?
Failing first.
(17:33):
and then being able to feel forward and receiving that feedback and making adjustmentswith that.
So we say feedback is our food.
And then excellence for me, how I define that and how we define it as a program, our staffis being a player led program, right?
And that is the championship culture in Columbia Women's Basketball is the Columbia edgeis making sure that our players understand that this is their team.
(17:56):
It's not our team, know, coach fed, player led.
That's, and you've heard this in so many different ways.
I'm sure anybody listening, but I really believe that is the secret ingredient and why Ireally believe our team is number one in culture in the nation is because our players are
really bought into that.
It's their team and they take ownership.
They make decisions.
We empower them to do that, to have hard conversations with each other.
(18:18):
love that.
And to me, that's like the perfect segue now to talk about, how could somebody potentiallybecome a member of your team and navigate the recruiting process?
So you shared earlier that your honesty in the recruiting strategy could frankly be alittle bit too much for somebody in terms of, what we're asking for is a lot.
I feel like even though it's important to state that, that might not be unique to youpersonally, because being an athlete in the Ivy League seems challenging.
(18:48):
from the outside looking in.
So in your eyes, what does it take for a prospective student athlete to kind of clear yourcheckbox for, I know this kid is gonna be successful as both a student and an athlete in
the Ivy League.
I think it's different at each Ivy school.
I do think we all have our own challenges, just like schools do in conference, right?
(19:11):
So I think, one, you're gonna get a fantastic education at any one of our institutions.
I do really believe that.
I mean, I was a student at Columbia.
I've coached at another institution.
I've coached here.
So my lens is really focused on those two places.
I think that you're going to be, one, tested in different ways, because it's competitivein the classroom.
(19:31):
That's the thing that you have to remember.
I say this to our players, like, everybody was a good student in high school, which is notalways the truth, but high school is so much easier than college because you go to class
every day, right?
For most part, there's some block scheduling, and in college you go to class twice a weekmaybe.
Sometimes there's classes that meet every day, introductory classes and things like that,but there's so much more time left up to your own device, and you've got to figure out how
(19:58):
to manage that.
So would say...
Here, one, we take a lot of pride in not missing a lot of classes.
So we don't have to make things up a lot.
But to be successful here at Columbia, I think there's going to have to be like, yourpriorities are in order.
You have to remember the things you said you wanted early in the recruiting process arestill the things that are important when it gets hard or when there's some decisions that
(20:20):
you need to make.
But that's the one thing.
But I mean, that's so hard to comprehend as a prospectus student athlete.
I think it's a mindset.
I always say this place isn't for the perfect student, it's for the person that wants toreally like work hard and be invested in their education here on an Octobascal Court.
So really big on that engagement piece.
(20:41):
Yes, absolutely.
They've got to interact with their growth.
It's not, if you come here and just try to let things happen to you or just check theboxes, like it's just, that's not the kind of place Columbia is.
Columbia is so hands-on in its learning that you've got to be willing to get your handsdirty.
You got to be in it with other people, with your professors, with your other classmates,with us as your basketball staff and program.
(21:05):
So now we flip to specifically the basketball part because we've already talked about thefact that, you know, people sleep on the Ivy League when in reality, you know, we're
swinging with the heavyweights in women's college basketball.
When you're out on the road and you're watching kids play, you know, what are some of thethings that you might see that, you know, in a kid that you circle and turn to the rest of
(21:29):
your staff and go, we got to keep an eye on this kid.
You know, what makes what makes somebody a home run to you when you're out on
I mean, think in terms of, know, when I think I'm not watching basketball, my big thingis, you know, their ball skills, their level of ball skills is like, what can they do, not
just in terms of like shooting and the statistical things, but how they can catch passdribble, right?
(21:52):
It's like, to me, having great hands, great feet are just so, so important in the collegegame.
And because if you have a good base,
you can grow further faster, right?
It's like exponential growth if you have those two things.
But if you're a little clumsy or like you're just, know, again, not that we can't workwith that, but having a solid base I think is really, really critical there from, like I
(22:14):
said, hands and feet, but also ball skills in general.
And then the other thing for us, like we recruit, the way we play, we recruit to ourstyle.
We play a very fast paced style, a lot of making decisions on the fly, quick thinking.
So for me is like,
can, when I'm watching a player, what's their versatility like?
How do they operate in different spaces?
Open spaces, tight spaces?
(22:35):
Are they getting to the next read quickly?
So that for us is important.
And everybody on my team, they all shoot the three, they all post up.
It's all about reading the mismatch.
So that's the IQ thing, leaning into that.
Which means we watch a lot.
My staff, I will give them so much credit, they watch a lot of video.
They watch a lot, obviously in the summertime when we're all out and all the recruitingperiods, but.
(22:57):
We do a lot of work behind the scenes too to make sure we know what we're getting.
And I think the IQ component in high school is one of the most slept on things, especiallymodern times.
Got a lot of young kids that you mentioned one-on-one training before.
There's a lot of kids with great scoring moves, but they don't necessarily execute them atthe correct time.
And, you know, I don't think enough kids realize they're being evaluated on the decisionsthey make and not necessarily the plays they make.
(23:25):
Totally.
Decision making is huge.
It's huge.
It's like, yeah, you can rep something, rep something, rep something, but knowing when todo it, why to do it, how to do it, that marriage is really critical.
So you just mentioned your staff's attention to detail and what they're watching for inthe recruiting trail.
Something I've known about your staff that I really, really love about them is theircommitment to building authentic relationships with recruits during the process.
(23:50):
I think a lot of young people do not realize how important the relationship buildingcomponent of the process is as they navigate it.
I've tried to explain to some younger athletes that like, you're going to spend
a huge amount of time with your teammates and with your coaches and like part of a coachprotecting their investment is making sure that they can rock with you and that you're
(24:13):
going to be able to take their coaching.
So I'm curious to know, especially when it comes to your staff, are there specific thingsthat you're sort of looking to learn about recruits as you build relationships with them?
Like, or is it a bit more fluid from kid to kid?
Yeah, I mean it's definitely fluid, right?
Like you're gonna go where the conversations take you and you're gonna, but there's thingsfor sure that we're like gonna get to.
(24:37):
Like we have very targeted conversations and we try to rotate the contacts we make becausethe way I talk to a player is very different than everybody else in my staff talks to a
player, right?
So we try to figure out, okay, like who is one, who are the major pieces of influence forthis person, right?
Is it the coach?
it the mom or the dad?
Is it the sister?
(24:57):
Is it the brother?
Who is it?
Who is that person?
So we always want to know who those major points of contact or influence are.
But then too, like making the student athlete feel comfortable so they can like reallytell us what they're thinking.
Because I think so much of recruiting right now is it's being fed to them or it's like,hey, you should be thinking about this.
And if you can really find out what's important to the student themselves or the studentathlete themselves, I think that's a big win.
(25:21):
Now that takes time.
Right, like your conversations have substance.
And then one thing too we like really pay attention to is like how interactive are theywith us?
Like not just like that whole engagement piece, right?
It's not just like are they sending us email updates with their stats and all this stuffor where am I?
I'm playing on court five, but asking questions about like who we are as people and what'simportant to us and they've watched a game.
(25:45):
Like to me, those are really critical.
steps in the process.
And you don't always nail it with players.
Like some people just are getting recruited by way too many schools and that'soverwhelming.
But you know, being able to make those decisions sift through that and be like, okay,these things align with me.
You know, we just try to get to that quicker than as soon as possible.
(26:07):
But it's hard.
It's hard.
know, there's a lot like we see everybody's at all the same events now.
Like it's, it's so different.
Recruiting is so different.
Like I never thought I would get a player
to come to Columbia from Idaho.
We have a player coming in from Idaho next year, right?
So it's, or like, you know, some of the places, like the international places we'verecruited, we have a player from Estonia on our team right now.
(26:28):
You know, like I remember like visiting Estonia when I was a player being like, havebasketball players here?
know, like you just, you'd like, of course they do, but it's such a small country, youknow, in basketball, was really growing.
So it's, it's just unique when you start thinking about how your connections make sense,but you know, just,
trying to get at, again, what's important to the student athlete?
(26:50):
Does that align with us?
And then who is their circle of influence?
I think those are the big things.
You just said something that's really, really interesting to me.
And to me, I see some common ground with what you were talking about on the court withdecisiveness.
There are times when I, particularly when I was recruiting Kinesis of the Sahara, I wouldknow when I was talking to a recruit that was overwhelmed.
(27:15):
Like someone that had really not thought about what they wanted yet and was just kind oftaking calls from everybody.
And then like you got on the phone with them and it was kind of just blank space.
is it fair to say that that decisiveness that you want on the court, like people that canmake a decision that no one do the right thing.
Is it fair to say that you're also looking for people that kind of know what they want outof their collegiate experience when they are communicating that to you?
(27:42):
Definitely, it's really hard.
I would say right now it's so hard because I feel like it changes too with recruiting,right?
They'll say, hey coach, I wanna go to the best possible school, I wanna play at thehighest level, and it's like, I feel like we give those things the most, and then they go
and pivot to X school that doesn't have the academic reputation maybe, right?
So I just think there's so many more things in play, especially when players go oncampuses, right?
(28:06):
There's things that are gonna tug at their heartstrings they probably didn't realizewould.
So it's like, sometimes you just try to
you know, show them as much as you can and make sure your relationship means enough, butthat's also not enough sometimes, you know?
It's unique, but I would say decisiveness in recruiting, it's very rare that playersreally know what they want early in the process, unless somebody is very much guiding them
(28:29):
and helping them through that.
I love what you just said about giving them the experience.
A quick anecdote here, because I'm sure you've had something like this happen.
I would ask recruits, like, can you give me an idea of how you want to be coached?
And I learned the hard way that like a very popular answer was not telling me the truth.
It was like, coach, you coach me however you want.
(28:50):
I'm extremely versatile.
I feel like I take any type of coaching.
And in the back of my mind, I'm like, OK, cool.
But then I go out and actually do that.
I'm like, they didn't mean that.
They were saying that because they were at like the front of the classroom.
Give me the A plus answer.
And your messaging is really important to me here because I don't think enough recruitsrealize that we need them to be honest, because even if we're not the right fit for them,
(29:14):
they have a better shot at finding the correct fit for them by knowing what they wantafter having enough experiences and acting on it.
Yes, Yeah, mean, gosh, it's tough.
It's, you know, I think that it's important that you remind them of the things they toldyou were important as well, and you continue to talk to those things.
But also, I would just say to recruits listening or to prospective student athletes, like,it's okay to tell people if this isn't something you like about a place, right?
(29:43):
Like, or, hey, I'm not sure about the city yet.
You know, like, let me get that.
And then they come on campus and like, wow, like I had no idea this was his like.
And you're like, yes, like it's in a gated campus.
you know, there's obviously negative recruiting that happens from school to school attimes, but I would just say like, see it for your own eyes.
Don't believe it because it was told to you by somebody else.
So, and that's the same that goes for player coaches that are trying to recruit you too.
(30:06):
It's like, make sure like, if you're really interested in a place, like do your homeworkas much as you're going to be recruited.
Don't just listen to what people are telling you.
But again, if that's what's important to you, make sure that it satisfies the needs thatyou have.
especially based on what you just shared.
This seems like a very good place to wrap.
So my last question for you, let's say we have access, you know, they probably have one ofthese at Columbia already.
(30:31):
Let's say we have access to a time machine and Megan, Megan Griffith is, you know, back tobeing a junior in high school.
She's decided she's all in on getting recruited and going to be a college athlete.
Knowing what you know now, how would you jumpstart your
Oof, that's a good question, that's tough one too.
I would say right now, I would just have been way more serious about it.
(30:56):
I probably, if I was in this generation and I was the same 17 year old or 16 year old thatI was then, now, I would have been one of those very overwhelmed players.
Now thankfully, my parents were really, really helping me, my dad specifically, throughthe process, being with Megan, you gotta care about this.
He didn't tell me what to do, but he always just kinda,
(31:18):
made sure I put myself in the right position.
So would say with where recruiting has grown so much and how much more exposure there is,I would tell myself, like, get more serious about it earlier.
You know, it's cool to care, right?
It's not cool to just field a lot of phone calls.
And like to your point, having those blank conversations, not having memorablerelationships with people.
(31:40):
I would tell myself to hone in on that stuff a lot, lot sooner.
Take control of your recruiting process.
to anyone listening that's in the metropolitan area.
Incredible Women's College basketball is a quick subway ride away on the one uptown.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for your time.
(32:00):
Coach Griffith really appreciate you.
Absolutely, Jared.
Great to see you, buddy.
This is, I just always get excited because you have great energy and I'm just alwaysexcited to talk to you, but you also are like my Manhattanite still.
So how is life on the way up or west side?
It's been great.
It's been great.
We've had some great fall weather.
No, in all seriousness, it's, you know, I love it up here and I'm excited for the year.
(00:22):
You know, it's hard to believe this is where we are right now.
Our first scrimmage is tomorrow on the brink of a season.
So it's an exciting time.
It's, if I zoom out a little bit, I feel like it's been a very exciting time for Columbiawomen's basketball recently.
And, you know, I love the X's and O's of basketball, but I also know that, you know, youhave a contagious energy and we're all about the feels too.
(00:49):
I have a couple of memories from last March, like really etched into my mind with onebeing like a full form tackle of Ty Cordell.
when it's pronounced that Columbia is heading to their first NCAA tournament.
So I want to ask you about this because you are an alum of Columbia with coachingexperience at another Ivy League school.
(01:13):
You come back and you are now the winningest head coach in program history and thisprogram has achieved new heights.
Can you walk me through what that must feel like for someone with such a deep connectionto Manhattan and to this program?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, mean, it's so much.
There's this enormous sense of gratitude I have just to be at Columbia.
(01:34):
I mean, that's the first thing I always lead with is the people that I've been able tobuild this program with and grow.
You Tyler, you mentioned Tyler.
We've been working on it for 12 years, right?
So for us to be able to reach this point in this program when it was something that wastold that couldn't be done by a lot of people, friends and not, it was just, you know.
(01:57):
a kind of culmination of all the things that, was the ultimate form of delayedgratification.
That's what I would say.
Yeah, sorry for my lack of, I stumbled over myself little, but it's delayed gratificationversus instant gratification and for eight years building something and to see it all come
together in a way where, and we didn't even know that was gonna happen, right?
(02:18):
We didn't know, that's how genuine and authentic that reaction was.
It's been unique, this process has been special.
The journey has been very up and down, but I'm immensely proud of what we've been able tobuild over time, and I just don't think we've missed any steps.
That's what I'm most proud and grateful for.
something we talk to our players about a lot is when it comes to growing, can't skip anysteps.
(02:43):
I imagine when you're kind of looking back on it, that makes it feel even more rewardingfor you.
Definitely, definitely.
That's the part.
It's also the most humbling part of a journey, right, is if you grow the right way, if youlay the foundation, then you do, you're not thinking about the windows yet, you gotta put
the foundation and the bricks and make sure that everything is level and even.
(03:05):
Then you start building, especially in a place that's never won before, right?
Like I played here, Columbia's home for me, but there's been no winning tradition here.
There've been no championships here, right, individual basketball.
So.
to do something that's never been done, one, not only do you have to do it your own way,you can't follow this blueprint, there is no blueprint, but to then be able to do
(03:26):
something at home the right way, not miss a beat, like I said, it's humbling, but it'salso extremely rewarding, and it keeps you excited about the next thing, knowing there is
another step.
And something that's really unique, know, having, it's been very cool to know you and towatch this grow as you, you know, as you got your start there.
(03:51):
One of the things that I also have loved about this build for you is what appears at leastobjectively to be a very genuine relationship that you have built as a program with the
city of Manhattan.
Mm-hmm.
You know, for listeners who don't really have an appreciation for this, there's, you know,the subway basically goes through Columbia.
(04:12):
You're a one subway away from just about everything uptown.
And you are starting to get great crowds.
You're starting to get significantly more local investment.
As someone that has spent so much time in Manhattan, can you describe what it's been liketo have a team and a staff that is so bought into building a relationship with New York
(04:34):
City?
Yeah, you gotta be a New Yorker.
You know, if you're gonna be here, you gotta reflect the place that you are, right, orwhere you're living, or what you're trying to sell and advertise to people.
And that's the thing is that when we put together this staff, especially Ty and I, who'vebeen together this whole time, that was our big thing is like, we're gonna make our team
synonymous with New York.
(04:54):
We're gonna match it in terms of personnel, we're gonna match it in terms of the energy,you know, like they're just a different energy in New York City.
when we put the staff and team together, that was the intention, right?
That's why people were like, why did you go international?
And I'm like, because that's what New York City is.
It's a melting pot, right?
It's people from all over the world, cultures, everybody looks different, everybody's froma different part of the world, it's global.
(05:18):
And you can also be yourself and there's something for everybody here.
So that's the thing I love the most about it is when building that in my experience as astudent athlete, I also felt that no matter if you're winning or losing basketball games,
the experience here is very real, it's very authentic.
people are who they are through and through, and they find themselves.
So that's something that I think our program has really taken ownership of is that we'regonna be a reflection of the city, we're gonna be one with the city, but we have to get to
(05:43):
know the city too.
Like we can't impose ourselves on it.
So the grassroots stuff, the civic engagement and community service is really important toour program because we've been able to get to know our community as well.
And that's allowed us to bring people in, right?
The fact that, you know, when I first took the job again,
I could walk around anywhere, even just literally outside the gym or on campus and nobodyknew who I was, who our players were.
(06:08):
And in the last three years, I'm on a train to Flushing Meadows to watch the US Open andsomebody's like, hey coach, great season.
I went to the business school, I caught your game this year.
And I'm like, what?
Just so out of context.
That's happening, not just to me, but all of our players.
Abby Shue graduates last year, arguably the most famous person on campus all year, right?
(06:30):
It's just special to see how if you open your arms up to people in New York City, it'sgoing to like swallow you up and return.
is so awesome.
I can, you know, I know I've shared this with you previously, you know, having familythat's from there.
It's very cool to see your staff's approach because I think that reciprocal energy is verymuch a Manhattan thing.
(06:51):
It is a unique city where if you, if your energy is not, I'm putting myself out there.
It's very easy to just be an ant in Manhattan and not be noticed and walk by.
Right.
But if your arms are out in Manhattan,
The city embraces you and it's just so cool to see that.
totally.
(07:12):
You on the subject of having some international flair to your team, you also playedinternationally after your collegiate career.
Something that really impressed me about your staff when I first got to know you workingcamps way back when was the way that you guys worked players out individually.
And it looked like it was done pro style.
(07:35):
Something that I talked to a lot of young recruits about is
the intention or frankly coach the lack thereof when they do workouts.
And as I've seen your program develop, one of my kind of hypotheses was their work behindthe scenes is really intentional and really deliberate on position.
(07:57):
And their staff is filled with people that are really looking at very specific details ofwhat they do.
And I've always wondered now I have the platform to ask you this publicly.
Does some of your professional experience sort of influence what the work looks like foryour individual athletes behind this?
Definitely, you know, it's unique.
(08:18):
When I grew up, you know, I did some one-on-one personal training a little bit.
Like, it wasn't this big thing that it's become now.
So I didn't have like a trainer.
You know, I did camps and I would work out with somebody like down the street basicallythat was a phenomenal mentor to me.
But it wasn't like the most consistent thing.
I was doing it maybe once every couple weeks.
You know, so, and I loved the game and I loved sports, but I just don't think it was asubiquitous as it is now in terms of training.
(08:44):
Like it's just everywhere, right?
But with me going overseas and really honing in on my craft, one, I learned how to workhard and work with intention.
Like I knew the difference between being in the gym for two hours and getting a good 45minute workout in where I got better, right?
And the efficiencies, you know, I'm not, you know, right now you can't see I'm five foot,I'm five five, right?
(09:05):
So I'm not six foot tall, I'm not six two, I'm on a big guard.
I was a good athlete but I wasn't like the best skilled player.
I knew that I had to get my inches in other places so I had to.
to figure out what those were and when I went overseas I actually had a lot of differentcoaches.
One of my coaches was really great just in terms of being a student of the game.
(09:25):
And I got to really get into film study and learning systems and game planning with mystaff and everything that went along with that was how to put the ball in places for
players, how to make people better.
Not just the way that, I knew how to make plays in college, that was something I alwaysdid as a point guard but.
I just understood more like why this, why you would do this in this situation.
(09:47):
And then I just started studying it more, honestly.
When I came back, that was the bridge for me between seasons was to train young students,right?
Young athletes.
And that's when I started really studying the game, the movements, the efficiencies, allthat.
So that experience was absolutely a blessing for me in this coaching career.
So I don't want to go super rough script here, but something you said just kind of poppeda thought into my mind, which is you have legit pros now coming out of Columbia.
(10:17):
I mean, you got two players that were drafted by WNBA teams.
You have an international three on three superstar.
And is there a translation there?
Do you think maybe like a goal now?
Big picture is can we get
athletes thinking a bit more critically about the minutiae of what they do while they'rein college.
(10:39):
Definitely, that's part of our recruiting message, right?
I say to players that you come to Columbia Women's Basketball to train like a pro on thecourt, but train like a pro in the classroom as well.
And you can really do both at a high level, but your priorities, your time management, allof that is just so critical in that process.
Not just because you're an Ivy League school, let's all remember we're an Ivy Leagueschool, one of the best institutions in the world, but because that's how intentional you
(11:03):
have to be with your work if you want to be really special in your field, right?
Whether that's basketball, whether that's science, whether that's
econ, whatever it is, you have to be that intentional.
So that's how we recruit.
And sometimes that's too intense for people, I'm not gonna lie.
But I've learned that it's way better to be honest and direct in that recruiting process,and so that people know what they're gonna get.
(11:24):
We have open practices.
like, come watch our practice.
You need to know what it's like.
Not just watch us on game day.
Come watch us at practice when we aren't, everything doesn't look perfect, right?
We're not making every shot.
It's not the fans, you're not getting caught up in the atmosphere, but.
you're seeing what we do and how much work that takes.
So that's part of our recruiting message is that we want to recruit and coach pros.
(11:46):
the of that recruiting message.
I'd love it if you could help me out with a little bit of myth busting here.
I don't think enough people understand what Ivy League basketball actually is.
mean, obviously having followed your program, you I know that you made a run to thechampionship of the WMIT, then the next season go to the NCAA tournament.
(12:07):
And I also know that, you know, most of your conference
can go toe to toe with most schools in the country regardless of their conferenceaffiliation.
What do you think is most misunderstood by like the average kid or average family aboutIvy League basketball?
(12:27):
Well, I think the relevance in the grand scheme of Division 1 is the number one myth,Because there's so many, now that there's not even Power 5, there's Power 4, all of these
teams got split up, the conference realignments, there's so many teams now in each one ofthese Power 4 conferences.
They just have more opportunity to be higher ranked, right?
(12:47):
Because they're playing more teams of that caliber.
The conferences aren't as spread out as it used to be.
But the Ivy League sits literally right below them and the Big East.
Us and the Big East are going head to head every year in terms of where we sit as aconference in the net rankings of college basketball.
So for the Ivy League, we're literally at the pinnacle of mid-major basketball andtouching high-major basketball.
(13:11):
And only thing that separates us is football, right?
Basically, that's just what it is.
The bowl series, our team, don't compete in the bowl series, our football team programs.
So that's why we couldn't, we aren't gonna be a part of those Power 4 football bowl seriesconferences.
So, you know, honestly, coming back to basketball, for us, you know, the net rankings is abig thing.
(13:32):
It kind of tells you, like, it's like strength of schedule, how you do, how your opponentsdo, when they go play other people, et cetera, et It's this big formula.
Us, Princeton, Harvard, and Penn, like, has all been in the top 100, top 150 the lastthree to four seasons, right?
Us and Princeton.
have been in the top 25 of that in the last two seasons, right?
(13:53):
So you're looking at programs that are not just, we're not just telling you that we're oneof the best in the country, we actually are one of the best in the country.
And we have to prove that in November and December, you know, because when we get intoconference play, obviously we're all playing each other.
We just don't have as many opportunities beyond January to do that.
So that's one of the big fundamental differences, honestly.
(14:14):
But our conference is really strong.
especially in the women's basketball side, our men's teams are also getting a lot betteras well, top to bottom.
Yeah, it's always interesting because you know, I'll post something about division one ordifference in divisions and I'll always have somebody comment like hey, you know, not all
division ones are created equal like you could end up at an Ivy League school and I haveto kind of respond like yes and that means you you know might beat most of the high mid
(14:38):
majors you play right?
Yeah, we can end up playing, know in a sold out Kansas Arena for WNIT championship.
What a a what a sad experience that would be.
Totally, totally.
I think that this NIL world we're in right now is also changing the way people are talkingor thinking about the Ivy League, because I think people are assuming we're not being
(15:02):
proactive in that space, right?
I think it's just going to look really different.
I can speak on behalf of our program, but pay for play is like a thing now, right?
You know, the Ivy League values don't necessarily align with that, but that doesn't meanwe're not gonna try to help our student athletes activate their name, and likeness while
they're here, right?
That's something that's very important to me.
(15:22):
I know that's important to some of my counterparts, but there are absolutely opportunitiesthat will be either paralleled or look different than what they're receiving at some of
these other places.
So I think the NIL space has really also changed the lens of how people think aboutDivision I basketball now.
makes tons of sense.
have one final question for you before we dive into like the recruiting component of this.
(15:45):
Something that always stood out to me like the very first time I met you was your talk toplayers and prospective student athletes about having an edge.
And I know that you actually use edge as an acronym.
And I think for anybody listening, it's really, it would be really cool for them to hearyour definition.
So for, for coach Megan Griffith.
(16:07):
What does it mean to play with an edge?
Right, so, you know, this is our mantra, it's our internal theme, you know, it wassomething that was like, super sacred to me, but it's also something that we, like, we
want people to know about because, you know, there's a couple of meanings behind it.
When I came back to Columbia, I was like, we need one thing that's gonna like be ourthing, like something we talk about, it resonates with me, it resonates with you.
(16:28):
And so we've defined it pretty clearly, you know, I think the number one part is I've justalways believed in having edges in life, right?
People talk a lot about gaining inches in places, and that's how it's like compoundinterest, right?
So for me, it's the same way I look about having edges.
And I was like that underdog mentality player, right?
So that's the number one.
So how we define edge for our players, you know, it's energy, discipline, and excellence.
(16:50):
So energy we say is being a great teammate.
And what does that look like, right?
So being a great teammate means we have one shared ego, right?
And that's really critical to us to understand that how we impact each other and howdecisions affect one another.
know, discipline, we talk about owning choices, right?
Ownership is just such an important, accountability and ownership right now, such animportant part of your process and your growth process.
(17:13):
And you know, again, this domino effect of what I do affects you, Jared, what you doaffects Ty, right?
So again, if we're gonna be a team, we have to understand that grit is having a growthmindset and with growth, feedback is inevitable, failure is inevitable.
We talk a lot about failing fast, right?
Failing first.
(17:33):
and then being able to feel forward and receiving that feedback and making adjustmentswith that.
So we say feedback is our food.
And then excellence for me, how I define that and how we define it as a program, our staffis being a player led program, right?
And that is the championship culture in Columbia Women's Basketball is the Columbia edgeis making sure that our players understand that this is their team.
(17:56):
It's not our team, know, coach fed, player led.
That's, and you've heard this in so many different ways.
I'm sure anybody listening, but I really believe that is the secret ingredient and why Ireally believe our team is number one in culture in the nation is because our players are
really bought into that.
It's their team and they take ownership.
They make decisions.
We empower them to do that, to have hard conversations with each other.
(18:18):
love that.
And to me, that's like the perfect segue now to talk about, how could somebody potentiallybecome a member of your team and navigate the recruiting process?
So you shared earlier that your honesty in the recruiting strategy could frankly be alittle bit too much for somebody in terms of, what we're asking for is a lot.
I feel like even though it's important to state that, that might not be unique to youpersonally, because being an athlete in the Ivy League seems challenging.
(18:48):
from the outside looking in.
So in your eyes, what does it take for a prospective student athlete to kind of clear yourcheckbox for, I know this kid is gonna be successful as both a student and an athlete in
the Ivy League.
I think it's different at each Ivy school.
I do think we all have our own challenges, just like schools do in conference, right?
(19:11):
So I think, one, you're gonna get a fantastic education at any one of our institutions.
I do really believe that.
I mean, I was a student at Columbia.
I've coached at another institution.
I've coached here.
So my lens is really focused on those two places.
I think that you're going to be, one, tested in different ways, because it's competitivein the classroom.
(19:31):
That's the thing that you have to remember.
I say this to our players, like, everybody was a good student in high school, which is notalways the truth, but high school is so much easier than college because you go to class
every day, right?
For most part, there's some block scheduling, and in college you go to class twice a weekmaybe.
Sometimes there's classes that meet every day, introductory classes and things like that,but there's so much more time left up to your own device, and you've got to figure out how
(19:58):
to manage that.
So would say...
Here, one, we take a lot of pride in not missing a lot of classes.
So we don't have to make things up a lot.
But to be successful here at Columbia, I think there's going to have to be like, yourpriorities are in order.
You have to remember the things you said you wanted early in the recruiting process arestill the things that are important when it gets hard or when there's some decisions that
(20:20):
you need to make.
But that's the one thing.
But I mean, that's so hard to comprehend as a prospectus student athlete.
I think it's a mindset.
I always say this place isn't for the perfect student, it's for the person that wants toreally like work hard and be invested in their education here on an Octobascal Court.
So really big on that engagement piece.
(20:41):
Yes, absolutely.
They've got to interact with their growth.
It's not, if you come here and just try to let things happen to you or just check theboxes, like it's just, that's not the kind of place Columbia is.
Columbia is so hands-on in its learning that you've got to be willing to get your handsdirty.
You got to be in it with other people, with your professors, with your other classmates,with us as your basketball staff and program.
(21:05):
So now we flip to specifically the basketball part because we've already talked about thefact that, you know, people sleep on the Ivy League when in reality, you know, we're
swinging with the heavyweights in women's college basketball.
When you're out on the road and you're watching kids play, you know, what are some of thethings that you might see that, you know, in a kid that you circle and turn to the rest of
(21:29):
your staff and go, we got to keep an eye on this kid.
You know, what makes what makes somebody a home run to you when you're out on
I mean, think in terms of, know, when I think I'm not watching basketball, my big thingis, you know, their ball skills, their level of ball skills is like, what can they do, not
just in terms of like shooting and the statistical things, but how they can catch passdribble, right?
(21:52):
It's like, to me, having great hands, great feet are just so, so important in the collegegame.
And because if you have a good base,
you can grow further faster, right?
It's like exponential growth if you have those two things.
But if you're a little clumsy or like you're just, know, again, not that we can't workwith that, but having a solid base I think is really, really critical there from, like I
(22:14):
said, hands and feet, but also ball skills in general.
And then the other thing for us, like we recruit, the way we play, we recruit to ourstyle.
We play a very fast paced style, a lot of making decisions on the fly, quick thinking.
So for me is like,
can, when I'm watching a player, what's their versatility like?
How do they operate in different spaces?
Open spaces, tight spaces?
(22:35):
Are they getting to the next read quickly?
So that for us is important.
And everybody on my team, they all shoot the three, they all post up.
It's all about reading the mismatch.
So that's the IQ thing, leaning into that.
Which means we watch a lot.
My staff, I will give them so much credit, they watch a lot of video.
They watch a lot, obviously in the summertime when we're all out and all the recruitingperiods, but.
(22:57):
We do a lot of work behind the scenes too to make sure we know what we're getting.
And I think the IQ component in high school is one of the most slept on things, especiallymodern times.
Got a lot of young kids that you mentioned one-on-one training before.
There's a lot of kids with great scoring moves, but they don't necessarily execute them atthe correct time.
And, you know, I don't think enough kids realize they're being evaluated on the decisionsthey make and not necessarily the plays they make.
(23:25):
Totally.
Decision making is huge.
It's huge.
It's like, yeah, you can rep something, rep something, rep something, but knowing when todo it, why to do it, how to do it, that marriage is really critical.
So you just mentioned your staff's attention to detail and what they're watching for inthe recruiting trail.
Something I've known about your staff that I really, really love about them is theircommitment to building authentic relationships with recruits during the process.
(23:50):
I think a lot of young people do not realize how important the relationship buildingcomponent of the process is as they navigate it.
I've tried to explain to some younger athletes that like, you're going to spend
a huge amount of time with your teammates and with your coaches and like part of a coachprotecting their investment is making sure that they can rock with you and that you're
(24:13):
going to be able to take their coaching.
So I'm curious to know, especially when it comes to your staff, are there specific thingsthat you're sort of looking to learn about recruits as you build relationships with them?
Like, or is it a bit more fluid from kid to kid?
Yeah, I mean it's definitely fluid, right?
Like you're gonna go where the conversations take you and you're gonna, but there's thingsfor sure that we're like gonna get to.
(24:37):
Like we have very targeted conversations and we try to rotate the contacts we make becausethe way I talk to a player is very different than everybody else in my staff talks to a
player, right?
So we try to figure out, okay, like who is one, who are the major pieces of influence forthis person, right?
Is it the coach?
it the mom or the dad?
Is it the sister?
(24:57):
Is it the brother?
Who is it?
Who is that person?
So we always want to know who those major points of contact or influence are.
But then too, like making the student athlete feel comfortable so they can like reallytell us what they're thinking.
Because I think so much of recruiting right now is it's being fed to them or it's like,hey, you should be thinking about this.
And if you can really find out what's important to the student themselves or the studentathlete themselves, I think that's a big win.
(25:21):
Now that takes time.
Right, like your conversations have substance.
And then one thing too we like really pay attention to is like how interactive are theywith us?
Like not just like that whole engagement piece, right?
It's not just like are they sending us email updates with their stats and all this stuffor where am I?
I'm playing on court five, but asking questions about like who we are as people and what'simportant to us and they've watched a game.
(25:45):
Like to me, those are really critical.
steps in the process.
And you don't always nail it with players.
Like some people just are getting recruited by way too many schools and that'soverwhelming.
But you know, being able to make those decisions sift through that and be like, okay,these things align with me.
You know, we just try to get to that quicker than as soon as possible.
(26:07):
But it's hard.
It's hard.
know, there's a lot like we see everybody's at all the same events now.
Like it's, it's so different.
Recruiting is so different.
Like I never thought I would get a player
to come to Columbia from Idaho.
We have a player coming in from Idaho next year, right?
So it's, or like, you know, some of the places, like the international places we'verecruited, we have a player from Estonia on our team right now.
(26:28):
You know, like I remember like visiting Estonia when I was a player being like, havebasketball players here?
know, like you just, you'd like, of course they do, but it's such a small country, youknow, in basketball, was really growing.
So it's, it's just unique when you start thinking about how your connections make sense,but you know, just,
trying to get at, again, what's important to the student athlete?
(26:50):
Does that align with us?
And then who is their circle of influence?
I think those are the big things.
You just said something that's really, really interesting to me.
And to me, I see some common ground with what you were talking about on the court withdecisiveness.
There are times when I, particularly when I was recruiting Kinesis of the Sahara, I wouldknow when I was talking to a recruit that was overwhelmed.
(27:15):
Like someone that had really not thought about what they wanted yet and was just kind oftaking calls from everybody.
And then like you got on the phone with them and it was kind of just blank space.
is it fair to say that that decisiveness that you want on the court, like people that canmake a decision that no one do the right thing.
Is it fair to say that you're also looking for people that kind of know what they want outof their collegiate experience when they are communicating that to you?
(27:42):
Definitely, it's really hard.
I would say right now it's so hard because I feel like it changes too with recruiting,right?
They'll say, hey coach, I wanna go to the best possible school, I wanna play at thehighest level, and it's like, I feel like we give those things the most, and then they go
and pivot to X school that doesn't have the academic reputation maybe, right?
So I just think there's so many more things in play, especially when players go oncampuses, right?
(28:06):
There's things that are gonna tug at their heartstrings they probably didn't realizewould.
So it's like, sometimes you just try to
you know, show them as much as you can and make sure your relationship means enough, butthat's also not enough sometimes, you know?
It's unique, but I would say decisiveness in recruiting, it's very rare that playersreally know what they want early in the process, unless somebody is very much guiding them
(28:29):
and helping them through that.
I love what you just said about giving them the experience.
A quick anecdote here, because I'm sure you've had something like this happen.
I would ask recruits, like, can you give me an idea of how you want to be coached?
And I learned the hard way that like a very popular answer was not telling me the truth.
It was like, coach, you coach me however you want.
(28:50):
I'm extremely versatile.
I feel like I take any type of coaching.
And in the back of my mind, I'm like, OK, cool.
But then I go out and actually do that.
I'm like, they didn't mean that.
They were saying that because they were at like the front of the classroom.
Give me the A plus answer.
And your messaging is really important to me here because I don't think enough recruitsrealize that we need them to be honest, because even if we're not the right fit for them,
(29:14):
they have a better shot at finding the correct fit for them by knowing what they wantafter having enough experiences and acting on it.
Yes, Yeah, mean, gosh, it's tough.
It's, you know, I think that it's important that you remind them of the things they toldyou were important as well, and you continue to talk to those things.
But also, I would just say to recruits listening or to prospective student athletes, like,it's okay to tell people if this isn't something you like about a place, right?
(29:43):
Like, or, hey, I'm not sure about the city yet.
You know, like, let me get that.
And then they come on campus and like, wow, like I had no idea this was his like.
And you're like, yes, like it's in a gated campus.
you know, there's obviously negative recruiting that happens from school to school attimes, but I would just say like, see it for your own eyes.
Don't believe it because it was told to you by somebody else.
So, and that's the same that goes for player coaches that are trying to recruit you too.
(30:06):
It's like, make sure like, if you're really interested in a place, like do your homeworkas much as you're going to be recruited.
Don't just listen to what people are telling you.
But again, if that's what's important to you, make sure that it satisfies the needs thatyou have.
especially based on what you just shared.
This seems like a very good place to wrap.
So my last question for you, let's say we have access, you know, they probably have one ofthese at Columbia already.
(30:31):
Let's say we have access to a time machine and Megan, Megan Griffith is, you know, back tobeing a junior in high school.
She's decided she's all in on getting recruited and going to be a college athlete.
Knowing what you know now, how would you jumpstart your
Oof, that's a good question, that's tough one too.
I would say right now, I would just have been way more serious about it.
(30:56):
I probably, if I was in this generation and I was the same 17 year old or 16 year old thatI was then, now, I would have been one of those very overwhelmed players.
Now thankfully, my parents were really, really helping me, my dad specifically, throughthe process, being with Megan, you gotta care about this.
He didn't tell me what to do, but he always just kinda,
(31:18):
made sure I put myself in the right position.
So would say with where recruiting has grown so much and how much more exposure there is,I would tell myself, like, get more serious about it earlier.
You know, it's cool to care, right?
It's not cool to just field a lot of phone calls.
And like to your point, having those blank conversations, not having memorablerelationships with people.
(31:40):
I would tell myself to hone in on that stuff a lot, lot sooner.
Take control of your recruiting process.
to anyone listening that's in the metropolitan area.
Incredible Women's College basketball is a quick subway ride away on the one uptown.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for your time.
(32:00):
Coach Griffith really appreciate you.
Absolutely, Jared.
Great to see you, buddy.
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