The Business of Scientific Art with Sienna Art Studios - Interview 29 - Nerdpreneur - Grow Your Nerdy Business

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I would not be able
to be a professional artist doing.
I don't haven't worked a day job in 15 years.
Not at all.
I haven't been part time with this.
I have been 100% full time with
my business since I started in 2008.
Wow, that's awesome.
Wasn't always easy.
There was a lot of ramen in the beginning.

(01:21):
Welcome to Nerdpreneur where we have
fun conversations with people making
money with their nerdy passion. As always,
I am joined by my co host Frank.
Hello.
And today we have a very special guest.
She's an incredible artist who leads
a small team in her studio in Portland.
Sienna of Sienna Art Studios.

(01:42):
Welcome to the show.
Hi, thanks for having me.
So excited to have you on. So Sienna,
what is your nerdy passion?
I am a biology undergrad and scientific artist.
Interest. Scientific artist. What?
Yeah.
What is a scientific artist?

(02:04):
I mean a scientific artist can be many things.
There's lots of scientific
artists that I follow that
like illustrate anatomy or draw birds.
I follow a lot of people who draw birds.
What I do,
I have a technique of art I call numberism,
which is like pointillism
where people draw entirely with dots.
But instead of drawing with dots,

(02:25):
I draw with data.
So I'm drawing intricate pieces
entirely with thousands of numbers
and equations pulled from research,
my own research that explains how
the subject that I'm drawing functions.
Can you give an example?
Like I saw one piece on
your social media that it's a whale.

(02:48):
Oh yeah?
Yeah. What numbers and data are
you using in that example?
That one's really cool.
That one's a little bit hard
to explain but this whale is. No, no. I'LL
explain it because this whale. Okay, so the.
A really great introduction
to my work is the heart.
So I have a human heart
that's drawn with cardiac equations. So

(03:08):
it's drawn with equations for stroke, volume,
ejection fraction, cardiac output,
and all of those equations are placed
in the piece where it makes sense. Like,
cardiac output is in the aorta.
I have a cello where the strings are drawn
with the hertz frequencies of all the notes
that you can play lined up to finger placement.
For that, I graphed it out, and probably,

(03:32):
I think my best work
is it's a really complicated piece,
so I'm only going to explain a couple
pieces of data that I drew it with,
because the full description is a whole page.
But it's drawn
with mechanical properties for tendon, muscle,
and bone under ideal conditions.
So it has, like,
the tensile strength of the tendons,
active range of motion for all of the joints,

(03:53):
including the carpal bones,
because I'm a crazy person.
And chemistry for muscle contraction.
So I have, like, ATP and acetylcholine.
So every piece I draw is drawn with numbers
and equations that tell its specific story.
That's so cool.
Wow.
So now I got to know what is the whale?

(04:15):
Okay, so the. The whale is something
I've wanted to draw for years.
It's based off of the Lonely Whale,
which you guys may have heard of.
It is a whale that the Navy
has been tracking since the early 90s. It's a.
An unknown species of baleen whale that
sings higher than any other baleen whale.

(04:36):
Its fundamental frequency is 52 Hz,
which is higher than any other baleen whale.
But because it's different,
we've been able to track this one
individual for several decades. And normally,
for a whale,
for one individual in the
vastness of the ocean and with all
of the noise that's going on in there, you

(04:56):
can track an individual for about 30 minutes.
People call him lonely
because singing for whales, as in birds, is a.
It's used for sexual selection.
And so if you're singing differently,
you're probably not pairing up and reproducing.
And they also don't tend to record

(05:17):
this whale swimming with other whales,
and so they call him the Lonely Whale.
When I first found this story,
it really resonated with me.
I'm a neurodivergent individual,
and I have a long history of struggling
with things like loneliness, especially.
I think all of us had that during the pandemic,

(05:37):
and I wanted to capture that,
to capture that feeling we all, I think, had.
But over time I started thinking,
how do we know this whale is lonely?
That's our projection.
We are assuming he's lonely
because he's different and we

(05:58):
haven't tracked him with other individuals.
I don't know that he's lonely.
I don't know what his inner world is.
You can't really know
that with most non human animals.
You certainly can't know that with
a whale you've never seen and
you don't even know what species it is.
What I know is this whale is different
and because this whale is different,

(06:18):
we get to track him. Like,
we wouldn't have even known he was there
if he sounded like all the other whales.
And so for me,
the piece is a celebration
of him and his weirdness.
So I don't know. So there's,
there's theories as to maybe he's a hybrid,
maybe he has a physiological deformity.

(06:40):
And I want to propose that
maybe he likes singing like that. Maybe
he is capable of singing in different ranges,
but he just likes
how it feels or how it sounds.
Yeah, yeah, I totally get that. There's,
I mean, you know, the falsetto range,
Michael Jackson, Justin Timberlake,
like when you get good enough at it,
it sounds good,

(07:01):
but if you're not a great falsetto singer,
it doesn't sound great.
So I could take a Tom.
A Tom Waits is an
amazing singer in his own right,
but not at all someone you would say
had a range of voice that was typical.
Right.
So I, Yeah, it's
the Tom Waits of Wales, if you will. Maybe.
I love that celebration

(07:22):
of the difference here and, you know,
finding that that personal story
is beautiful and that connection to it.
And I think we all, yeah, like you said,
we all can relate to
that loneliness factor that we felt.
So am I to understand that the
numberism that you're using here is the.

(07:43):
Is it more hertz kind of stuff?
Is it GPS coordinates of where we've seen them?
What?
What is it?
So the numbers I'm
using to draw this whale with, it's the,
the main frequency,
so 52 hertz. Specifically
because he has a range, it's 51.75 hertz,
which I like because it's
more pleasant to draw that number.

(08:04):
And then I read a bunch of research papers of.
About this whale tracking him and I took his,
the recordings of his songs
and I turned that into numbers.
So I quantified it and
so I'm drawing him with his song.
Interesting. Have you ever done, like. I mean,

(08:24):
I feel like this might
fall out of Numberism per se,
if I understand it at all. Close. But
it's like the notes that they sing in is that.
Do you do that sometimes?
That's actually a plan
for a future piece on birds,
but I will put out there.
I collaborate with
scientists quite a lot for my pieces,

(08:47):
and I'm looking for someone to
collaborate with on these pieces
that have more of a background in physics.
And how would you say, like, audio analysis?
There are some recordings I
have that I don't know how to
quantify to the finest detail that I.
That I need to draw them.
And I need someone who can take my recordings

(09:09):
and transfer them into a sequence of numbers.
So any physicists
and audio experts that are listening.
Audio engineers.
I'm looking for a good audio engineer.
There we go.
Awesome.
So that helps give a pretty
good idea of what it is that you do.
Thank you for explaining.
Yeah, yeah. Now, that
begs the question to me of, like,

(09:31):
what came first for you?
Was it the science or the art?
And how did that come to be a discovery?
You should meld the two.
So I've been an artist
since I was a little one, and
I didn't have a background in math or science,
but I was really interested in it.
I've always been a big nerd.
I've always loved school. You

(09:52):
couldn't get me to stop reading and learning,
but I felt a barrier between me and science,
mostly because I had a really bad history
with math and I didn't do well in it.
It really stressed me out.
And so just a wall I was hitting, I found.
So I started doing drawings drawn
in with numbers and equations. Originally,

(10:12):
I was drawing with the
numbers of the clock 1 through 12,
and this was my way of
capturing a moment in time passing.
This was a meditative process I was using
to just try to keep myself in the present,
which was lovely.
When I started drawing numbers and pieces
that were coming from an honest place,

(10:33):
that was the first time that I started reliably
selling my work and people were drawn to it.
And I think that the audience
can always tell when you're being When.
When you're being genuine,
when it's coming from a real place.
But I drew with the numbers of
the clock one through 12 for two years,
and then I started
drawing with scientific concepts.
And so the first piece was

(10:54):
Schrodinger's Cat and Fibonacci's Snail.
I did these for fun and then realized
after the fact that illustrating a scientific
concept and numbers in this way helped me
form a stronger relationship with a concept.
So When I was done
with illustrating Schrodinger's cat,
I had a better understanding of the theory,

(11:14):
I had a better understanding of the math,
and I had better recollection of it.
And so I sort of found out on accident that
this was a really good learning device for me.
It was also really helping
me decrease my anxiety about math.
And so I think simply drawing
these mathematical equations in
a pretty context helped me approach it,

(11:34):
and so that sort of shattered
my barrier and helped me re.
Approach science.
So you used creativity and art to break through
your barriers that surrounded your academics?
Yes. I found a place for myself with
math and science that felt right for me.
That's so cool.
I have a close childhood
friend who was struggling with math. I mean,

(11:56):
he had all kinds of, like, you know,
just not great teachers and whatever it was.
But this is so awesome.
I wonder how many other people deal.
With that, with anxiety, with math.
Yeah, most of us.
Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. I don't even want
to calculate the tip sometimes. You know, it's.
I personally loved math. I don't know.

(12:18):
I don't know.
I was a theater kid, so I.
I get that I wasn't
super into math on my side, but so when. What.
I love math now.
That's awesome.
Yeah, right? Like, especially
the concepts are so cool. Right.
I think that most of us would love
math and science if it was presented
in a way that's more relatable and human. Like,

(12:38):
we tend to present math just sort of in this.
The idea is that, like,
math lives and dies on the page.
It's just rote,
and there's nothing living and human about it.
But the fact is,
most math we have came originally
from observations of the natural world.
And so if we were instead learning math

(12:58):
from a perspective of engaging with the world,
it would mean something to us.
It'd be much more relatable.
It'd be much easier to learn and remember,
and people would care about
it and maybe have fun with it.
I immediately
think of Newton and the apple, you know,
that's observing the natural world to help
create that. That. That principle. Is that.

(13:20):
Is that kind of what you're talking about?
Well, I mean, that's. That's.
That story is not real.
But the nerds coming out.
The nerds coming out, actually.
Actually, yes.
All right.
I loved what you said around. Well,
you mentioned you started selling your
art when you started doing this

(13:41):
thing that really felt authentic to you,
I think is, like, genuine. Is there.
Do you think, as an artist, is it. Is.
Was it something that you felt when
you were doing it, like, oh, this is. Like,
this is really what
I'm supposed to be doing as an artist.

(14:01):
Or this is what feels authentic
and that's why you did it, or was there.
Was there something else there?
Was it just a feeling that you
had that you kind of trusted to go with?
Or. And is it. Is that now a barometer for you?
Because I find that's
the way art kind of works,
at least for some people. Or
was there more intention behind it than that?
Was there science behind it?
So I started drawing with numbers

(14:22):
and equations because I needed it.
I was in a pretty bad place.
I was struggling with depression and anxiety.
My life had sort of hit a reset,
and I didn't know where I was going next.
And this work helped center me.
I have found that most of my most successful

(14:44):
work is when it is completing something for me.
I think I was hesitant
to do that because you. You're like, well,
this is something that I need. What
about what my clients want or the public wants?
But the fact is,
we're all really similar.
And so when I was creating
artwork about my vulnerabilities,
which I will tell you, while creating those,

(15:05):
it felt kind of scary because I was
being really vulnerable and soft with the.
With the world.
And at the time,
that was very difficult for me.
And I think people,
when they see work that does that,
it resonates with them, and
it completes something that's missing for them,
something that they want to communicate,
something that they want to process.

(15:27):
And with a lot of my pieces,
they do actually have a lot to do with
mental health and a personal journey, which,
nine times out of 10,
is something people can relate with.
So I will say also that with a
question about when you start being

(15:48):
successful as an artist and how
that relates to creating authentic work.
I know a lot of artists,
and there's a wide
range of how successful they are.
And I will say, first of all,
you don't need to be
a great artist to be successful.
You need to be persistent,

(16:11):
and you do need to finish a project well.
So not just to finish a project,
but to run a business.
So to be a successful artist,
you're running an artist business.
You just need to never.
You need to be consistent, keep making work,
listen to your public,
and be willing to make adjustments.

(16:32):
But starting off
with creating work that you love, that
resonates with you is where you have to start.
I know some artists who show
up at these events all the time,
and I ask them, like, hey,
what is this piece about? Like, oh,
I don't know people like, you know,
these animals.
Yeah, right. We at Emerald City Comic Con,
we definitely saw
people just pandering to like, oh,
these are big superheroes, big names.

(16:54):
I just made it.
Yeah. And they look sad.
So these vendors that I
know who draw and paint things
because they think people will want them,
they look hollow and they're stressed
and they're burnt out and they're not
making the money that they want to make.
I will say that working events
like Emerald City Comic Con is hard.

(17:17):
Running an arts business,
you hit burnout.
This is like I was telling,
I was telling my therapist
the other day that working at event,
you have a 30 second soul pitch that you
do with each person that walks into the booth.
And you do that for 10 hours.
You know, you're,
you're out there giving yourself and your work.
It's super vulnerable.

(17:38):
So even when you're,
when you're creating genuine work,
it's going to be exhausting.
So if you know it's going to be hard,
do it in a way that's sustainable.
And the only way it can be sustainable, really,
is if it's something you love that
you're willing to put in that effort for.
That you're willing to bleed for.
Amen.
Yeah. That's so much

(17:59):
what Nerdpreneur is about too. It
strikes at the heart of it, is that, you know,
starting a business is not easy,
no matter what business it is.
And it becomes infinitely harder
if you're doing something that you
hate doing or you have no interest in.
And so that's.
That must be, I mean, events.
Let's talk about those for a second.

(18:21):
Because they are, I mean, they're,
they're hard for people just
going to them and not being a vendor,
even just like getting through three days
or four days of an event can be a lot
when you're actually a vendor there.
Maybe give us how
many events do you do in a year?
And is it something you like? Do you

(18:41):
do because of the necessity of the business,
or is there some things
that you really look forward to it?
I do two types of events.
I do art markets and I do Comic Cons and then
I also do open studio events and gallery shows.
The selling at these events
is the foundation of my business.
And most of my clientele actually
comes from meeting them in person, as

(19:02):
opposed to probably most people you interview.
Most of their clients
come from Instagram or online.
But I don't generate them there.
I generate them in public.
Most of my followers are people who have
bought something for me at an event and have
spoken to me face to face at some point.
The number of events. Yeah, yeah, it is.

(19:24):
Right. We actually made the
choice to go to our first event, and
we met so many great people and nerdpreneurs,
and you were one of them.
But I think that it's like this untapped sort
of place for nerdy entrepreneurs, actually.
People doing what they
love and finding a way to make it.
Make it full time. That's. So. Yeah,
I just wanted to throw that in there.

(19:44):
That's how we met you.
So I will also say,
and I know I get.
You're going to have to keep
me on focus because I have adhd, so.
And I will, like, forget where I. Where I am.
There's a lot of artists at Comic Con, like,
quality fine artists who are using Comic
Cons as a foundation of their business,
and it is working for us.

(20:06):
And so when you go to a Comic Con now,
it's not all about merch. Like,
look for the artists. There are people, like,
if you're an art collector,
you can find your next artist
that you're just going to follow forever.
Yeah, totally. Well,
I haven't said that to Frank.
It was like I was going
through looking for my next
artist that I want to buy. Cause I'm looking.
I have a blank

(20:26):
space on my wall that I've been, like,
wanting to potentially fill with.
Wants to get Dune on the wall.
I was looking for specifically a Dune art,
and there was, like,
no Dune art at acc. It was surprising.
There was, but, yeah.
So I actually saw your booth
last year at Emerald City Comic Con,
and you weren't there.
I believe the person that was at the
booth was saying that you were doing, like,

(20:47):
you had school stuff going on at the time.
And so this year,
when I was going with Chris, I was like,
chris Sienna Studio. Like,
I got the card last time. Like that. Like,
it's like a textured.
It's like a canvas kind of. What is it?
It's on canvas.
So we print canvas prints.
And whenever we print on canvas,
there's a little strip that's.

(21:08):
There's no ink on. That's just white.
And so instead of wasting that,
we print our cards there,
so it reduces waste.
Oh, that's cool.
We do a lot of that in our business.
I was super stoked that you
were there this time. And, I mean, you were.
You were very busy
when we happened to swing by, but
I was like, yes, she's here. Okay. All right.
Now we're Gonna have to get her on the podcast.
So I was really stoked

(21:29):
to get to meet you in person. Well, thank you.
That was great.
That event was probably
the best we've had, actually, at ecc.
It was a lot great.
I was going to answer your question. You asked.
So we used to do a ton of events in one year,
and I think we did 12 comic cons,

(21:51):
and we were just doing them back to back.
And so we would fly out.
We've done New York City comic con and C2E2
and MegaCon and some in Arizona. And
so we would produce everything ahead of time.
So you have to
completely print a whole event, and it's.
And then you have to print three
of them so that you can go to one event.

(22:13):
So you. Okay, so go to ecc, come back,
and then next week,
turn around and fly out
to Chicago for C2E2 and come back. You
have no time in between to make our product,
so you have to do it all at once.
And we had a system for flying with it,
and that was good financially,
but it was burning us out.

(22:33):
That was just a bit too much.
And I know artists who.
One artist did 52 events last year.
Oh, my gosh. That's every week.
That's no breaks.
Yeah. And I just value my.
I value my time a bit more.
So I pull back now.
I do Emerald City Comic Con,
Rose City Comic Con.
I do Geek Craft

(22:54):
Expo in Portland and in Seattle.
The one in Seattle I love
got to go to Geekcraft Expo in Seattle.
It is billed as the Etsy for nerds.
So it's all handmade art and all nerdy,
and there's nothing else. There's no merch,
there's no actors,
there's no panels. It's just.
You want to go and get handmade

(23:15):
nerdy art to gift people in the holidays.
That is where you go.
That is what you do.
I do like all my shopping there.
Very cool. Very cool. So what may.
So I'm curious for the ones that you do,
you've narrowed it down.
You doing a bunch of them, and
now you've kind of picked the ones that have.
That you want to do.

(23:35):
What goes into you deciding
to do that Con versus another con,
or is it just distance?
Or is there other stuff that goes into that?
There's so many factors.
I don't know how interesting this will be.
We keep spreadsheets. I do.
I do a lot of.
Already loves it.
I do a lot of spreadsheet math,
and we keep a record of all
of the Sales we've done at any event.

(23:58):
And I do a thing where I compare the sales.
I compare the.
What's the word? The buy rate.
I compare the buy rate for each place
and then the cost and the expense
and the distance and the profit. And I create.
What is buy rate.
So that's.
So you're there for a certain number of

(24:18):
hours and how often are you making a sale?
Gotcha. So that would just be.
We're there for three days,
12 hours each day per
hour we're getting this many sales, roughly.
Is that kind of how you calculate it?
I guess.
I know, I'm 45.
Yeah. I did it because at Geekcraft Expo
we were making a sale every five minutes.
Oh, cool.
And I wanted to know. Yeah, it was amazing.

(24:38):
And I wanted to compare
that to Emerald City Comic Con.
And the buy rate for Emerald
City Comic Con was much lower.
But that's a four day show, so it's different.
Like it's a huge event
and realty Comic Con is huge anyway.
So that tells me how efficient is the event.

(25:00):
Anyway, Let me see. So we track our sales,
we also track our enjoyment of the event. So
we've done some events that are poorly running.
And if it's poorly run, if there's
poor communication with the showrunners,
if it's a really misorganized floor,
if it's uncomfortable for us or the attendees,
if it's in a location

(25:21):
that's difficult for people to get,
then it's not something we
want to do because it's stressful.
So we consider the money we're making,
the amount of effort we put into
getting there and the experience
we have when we're there and the
relationships we have with the show owners.
That's one of the reasons
we do Geekcraft Expo so much,
is the people who run it are

(25:41):
delightful and they listen to
the vendors and so if we have feedback,
they will make adjustments,
which I appreciate.
ECC is run is run really well.
Rose City Comic Con,
I love how they are run.
They're very efficient.
The way that they organized Emerald
City Comic Con last year was amazing.
I honestly really appreciated
how quickly vendors can get in. Their

(26:03):
vendor entrance was actually a vendor entrance
as opposed to what used to be to go, okay,
here's your vendor entrance and
wait 30 minutes to get into the building.
I don't know how interesting that is to you.
This is actually exactly where I think
it'd be interesting for people because one
of the gateways we've heard from so many
of our nerdy Entrepreneurs into their
passion is through the guise of events,

(26:26):
whether that be in, say,
a board game industry or
like big comic con type events.
And so I think there is something really
interesting in this for people who might
be thinking about getting into a nerdy
business or going to their first con.
It's definitely a leap that people
need to take to really go to that next
level because they can do only so much

(26:47):
from their studio and from their computer.
I can just give you advice as if you were
an artist going to do a first Comic Con.
Yeah, that was going to be. My
next question actually was like,
what would you have told yourself before doing
all these cons now knowing what you know.
Okay, so you need to bring snacks.

(27:09):
Number one.
Just like D and D,
you've got to bring snacks.
You won't be able to leave. You
won't be able to leave your table often. Yeah.
And the food at conventions is terrible.
So I'm sorry, but it is.
It's snacks for your team or
for people who come to your tables?
No, no, just for your team.
So you need snacks.
You don't want
those people hanging out too long.
You want to get that. That buy rate.

(27:30):
Oh, so there's a balance.
I just want to speak to that too. So
I do want to say that the buy rate's important,
but one of the other things I get
from events is a really wonderful
personal connection with people. So my.
Lots of people cry in my booth. Actually,

(27:50):
the work I do,
some of it connects to pieces,
connects to people in a really deep way.
I have some pieces that have
to do with mental health and depression.
I also speak with.
I get to connect with scientists,
and it can get really nerdy and wonderful,
and that's really fulfilling for me.
So it's not just about making money.

(28:12):
It's also about connecting with my community,
connecting with my people.
So I just want to say that you have moments.
I had a moment with someone
last weekend at Portland
Saturday Market who has epilepsy. And I.
And she is also going into neuroscience.
And she was talking about how
she was going into neuroscience

(28:33):
to better understand her own brain.
And I was like, hold on.
I actually did a drawing for you.
And I pull out this piece that I created
for a collector that was inspired by
their friend who suffers from epilepsy,
but used it as a way to sort of.
She found beauty in the
experience and her own personal strength.
And he wanted me to capture something

(28:54):
that honored the experience
of both struggling and sort of persevering.
And I did this drawing called
Storm And I showed it to her. I'm like,
you should just read it.
And she read it and
it felt like I had drawn it for her.
And that happens a lot where you create

(29:15):
a piece and you don't know who it's for.
And then one day they walk into your booth
and it's complete and you feel complete.
And she cried and
I cried and we hugged and wow, there's the.
And you just can't get that online. You, you.
I get that when I meet people at events.
Yeah, absolutely. Well,

(29:36):
there's the personal connection.
We've got snacks.
Yes. Sorry.
What else have we got to do?
For these to be really effective, you.
Need FL floor mats,
lots of them.
Because there's no rugs in convention
halls and you're standing forever.
And this is also for people attending.
Walking around on those hard concrete

(29:57):
floors is going to destroy your body.
It's just not sustainable to do it.
So you need snacks, you need padding,
you need water,
you need a break,
you need someone who can cover you.
You need
really good signage. Oh, my God. I knew.
I recently saw an artist.
I love her work.

(30:18):
And she sold me the piece.
And there was no card,
no information about her whatsoever.
I'm like, how am
I supposed to find you again? Well, if you ask,
I can hand you this brochure.
And I was like, no, no.
Every single person you engage with at these
events is future client. You know, you're.
They get to walk away with your work and

(30:40):
a card or brochure or whatever so they can
share your work with their nerdy community.
Yeah, create
that returning customer, definitely.
And also build that community.
And I kind of wanted to touch on that.
And this touches on the other topic of events,
but how did you build your team?

(31:02):
You've talked with us off mic a little bit
about the people that you have on your team,
but also when we saw you,
you had maybe four,
at least three other
people in that booth with you. It seemed
like that were supporting and helping out.
How do you get your team?
How do you collect your group?
So I. Okay,

(31:23):
this is a really good question.
So I'm an employer, which is weird.
I've been self employed for most of my life
and being an employer seems unreal to me.
The first time I had an employee,
I did it completely wrong.
I micromanaged her and I wanted
to make sure she did everything

(31:44):
the way that I did it. And it really,
it just didn't work out.
And I recognized that.
And so the next employee that I got,
I interviewed a lot of people.
I had a lot of preparation.
And when I found the
people who had really good experience,
they had experience in art markets,
they were really clever,

(32:06):
and they were easygoing,
and they were good with people.
I told them, like, look,
I'm going to train you for the first two weeks.
And during that time,
I want you to ask
me all the questions in the world.
And then after that,
I want you to work pretty much on your own.
I want you to come with. Come
to me only when you've exhausted all avenues.
I want you to use your
clever brain to solve the problem. And

(32:28):
if you see that something can be done better,
I want you to do it.
So I want you to know I'm hiring you because I
trust you to be smart enough to solve these
things on your own and to improve things.
And then I just trusted them.
And so the people that worked with me.
Brianna was one of the people you saw.
She recently actually moved on to another job,
but she worked with us for seven years.

(32:50):
We're still friends.
She worked with us for seven years off and on.
And she vastly improved my business because
I trusted her and my partner, Elle Works,
they create most of the products,
and I trust them.
And so I think that the best thing for
having a team is to hire people
that you know you can trust to do

(33:12):
the work and step back and let them
do the work so that you can focus on, for me,
the creative work and the research.
Hey, nerdpreneurs. We're going
to get back to this.
Interview with Sienna in just a second. I
just wanted to talk to you for a minute minute.
About something called
our awesome nerdpreneur board.
We have a mission of elevating these

(33:33):
nerdy entrepreneur stories and finding
and discovering successful nerdy entrepreneurs.
We actually want to help a thousand
people start their own nerdy business.
And so we created this podcast,
and we're actually looking
to go a little deeper with people,
which means we're building a community where
you can be around other people that are also
pursuing their nerdy entrepreneurial dreams.

(33:56):
One of the ways we have been finding bigger
and more successful guests like we have
is that we have been going to conventions
like PAX west or Emerald City Comic Con.
Like, that's how we met Sienna, but we also
met a number of other people. Now, of course,
all of that costs money. And right now,
Frank and I are investing in this business

(34:18):
for ourselves to make these connections,
to garner the great strategies
that are going to work and try
to bring that to you guys for free.
That's what the podcast is.
We're putting out as much free stuff as we can,
but if you would like to go a little deeper,
or maybe you want to hear
more about one of these interviews,
or maybe you just want to see us go to
more conventions and meet more and

(34:40):
more successful nerdy entrepreneurs
so we get better and better interviews.
Then you can go over to patreon.com
nerdpreneur and become a
member of our awesome Nerdpreneur board.
Not only will you get the full hour of PAX
west interviews that we just released there,
you'll also get access to full uncut
episodes of all 30 plus of our previous

(35:03):
nerdy entrepreneur episodes and a few
other cool bonuses that Frank and I like
to just throw in there every so often.
So thanks a lot for listening,
and if you become a board member,
welcome to the board. Now,
let's get back to this episode.
Sienna's about to share
how she does her art commissions, which
is actually my favorite part of this interview.
I think you're really gonna love it.

(35:26):
I did want to talk
about the way I do commissions.
Oh, that's a great idea. Yeah.
So the way I do commissions
is different from most artists,
and I changed it again because of necessity.
So I used to do
commissions like everyone else does,
which is a collector wants to buy your work,
and you're like, yes, please. Thank you.
I would really like to make

(35:46):
art for money and be able to eat.
I'll do whatever you want.
And they get really involved in the process.
You send them progress photos,
they make changes.
I actually invited
the clients to help me, like,
find the data and change things.
And I found that to be extremely

(36:08):
stressful because you sort of feel like
someone's there to change things all the time.
Really slow down the process.
Slowed down the process
and occasionally ruined the art, right?
Ruined it Just sucked the soul out of it.
And I won't say which pieces these were,
but I don't make prints of them
anymore because I don't like them.

(36:29):
And so it became.
I just was really burnt out.
And most artists I know that offer commissions
face the same problem because you want
the commission and then you hate doing it.
But I wanted to find
a way to allow my collectors, whom I love.
I have the best collectors. They're nerdy,
enthusiastic science art fans.
They're just brilliant. I love them,

(36:51):
and I want to allow them to collect my art,
and I want to be able to create original art.
So I came up with a plan
that works for both of us.
I release a catalog
of planned works twice a year.
This is also really helpful for work like
mine that takes a long time to prepare.
I can't just draw anything you want.

(37:13):
I will then have to go do research for it,
which takes me at least three months to do,
and in some cases six months to do.
If it's something I'm not used to,
that's a huge amount of time
that I need to dedicate to the piece,
which I'm not being paid for, really,
because I love it and I won't stop.
So what I do is twice a year
I release the catalog of planned works,

(37:33):
which is a list of pieces that I want to draw.
They are pieces and designs
that I've already done the research for.
So I already have all the data I need.
The bulk of the research process is done.
I already have a concept
of the piece I want to create.
And so sometimes I'll release the
catalog with a sketch or a reference
concept of what the image would be.

(37:54):
And I say I want to draw. Recently, last year,
I want to draw Mount St.
Helens erupting.
And so I see these are the pieces,
or an anatomical climber
is a piece that I want to make,
or a DNA piece is a piece that I want to make.
And my collectors look through and they go, oh,
I definitely want that.
And so my collector said, okay,
I want Mount St. Helens,

(38:15):
and I want it at this size,
and I want it on this medium.
And these are colors I love,
and these are colors I hate.
And that is the full amount
of input that they can give. So you,
you collect a piece from
me because you're ordering it from my.
My catalog of things
I want to make ahead of time.
I give people a discount,
so they get 10% off for pre

(38:36):
ordering an original that I want to make.
And then the deal is,
you just trust me to make the art.
And so I say on my,
there's a little artist contract. I'm like,
this is really only for people
who know my work and love my
work and can trust me to do my thing.
And my collectors have loved this

(38:56):
because a lot of them have wanted to collect
my original art for me for a long time.
They didn't know what they wanted,
so it simplified things for them.
And I've been able to focus on my work anyway.
I have a few artist friends who are
implementing this for themselves as
well as the way to take commissions
in a way that's sustainable for them.

(39:17):
And so when you say collectors,
I think that's really cool, by the way.
And I think that like even for me,
when I was looking through your,
doing some research,
looking at how it was, I was like,
how does this work exactly? I'm
so glad you went through that because it was,
it was interesting to, to
see all the stuff you were planning on making.
But when you say collectors,
is that just like people,
you know who collect your art or

(39:39):
do you have like an actual tier of
people that support you that you
have like an email list for or like, what,
what does it mean to be a collector?
So most of my,
most of my original work is sold
to patrons on my Patreon account.
I do recommend Patreon is the
best way to follow me and support me.
It's a platform where you can see

(39:59):
what I'm making and actually get
involved in my process without like
a bunch of ads and scrolling forever,
which is what I do when I go on Instagram.
So I have a.
I keep a list of my collectors
and I actually send them invites
personally to art events that I have,

(40:20):
like open studio events.
I keep in contact with them and I.
So I've had a long list of people wanting
to buy originals for me for a long time,
but I didn't know how to implement it in a way
that worked with my schedule and met my needs.
And so for a really long time
I wasn't taking commissions at all. Like,
I just don't have time for, for that.

(40:41):
But Patreon and my catalog of planned
works allowed me to do that sustainably.
So now I can do upwards of
six commissions a year like that.
Does that answer questions on top of.
The other stuff you already make?
Yes, on top. Oh, everything I make
is already pre ordered. It's pre sold. Oh yeah.
Which is kind of weird.

(41:01):
So if people want me to do a gallery event,
like I can't offer anything because I have
very few originals left that haven't been sold.
I make it and it's sold. However, I do have.
One of the great things about being
a patron is you get to see my studies.
So because I'm a perfectionist,
when I'm creating a piece,
I first make a small. So most artists,

(41:22):
they make a thumbnail drawing.
I make the entire thing, but smaller.
And so like I have a 2 by
3 foot copper plate etching to
my left right now of the lonely whale.
And before I did that,
I wanted to make sure
I had every part of the process,
like which numbers go where and the medium and
the composition and the dissipation worked out.

(41:45):
And so I drew it twice.
So I did it once on a
metallic scratch paper and did
it another time on copper plate etching.
And so each one of those is 9 by 12.
So those are available to sell.
And my patrons are the ones who usually buy
it because I release it to them before the
public and they get 15% off my original work.

(42:05):
So they collect it.
But in the end I have very few new,
new pieces to show that,
that aren't already sold.
I think that's super interesting for.
Especially for artists who might be aspiring to
actually have their art become their business.
The idea of having people buy your. Or having,

(42:25):
I guess a list of patrons
or collectors or people like
that you aren't necessarily catering to,
but you're really serving them at a
higher level to give them opportunity
to support you and get what they want,
which is your art. So that's a.
That's a really cool model that we
haven't dug into with many artists yet.
So thank you for sharing.
I would say that my patrons,

(42:45):
I feel like we're part of a community. So they,
my patrons are nerds.
A lot of them are professional nerds. And they,
they love the process.
They contribute to the process.
So they'll actually submit
reference photos for me to use.
They'll recommend research papers if they
have a background in a certain type of science.

(43:08):
We'll actually collaborate on a piece together.
Anyone who collaborates on a Piece
of Mind gets a free print and like, credit.
But these people, like,
they've been there for many,
many years and I would,
I consider many of them friends at this point.
It's different. It's.
My Patreon community is different
than like a normal online platform.

(43:29):
I don't feel like I'm selling to people or.
It's a very authentic place of connection.
On that note,
how do you curate this sense of community?
A lot of people
talk about using Discord, for example,
as a space to facilitate conversation.
But it sounds like you're
doing all this on Patreon, is that right?

(43:50):
Yes, I do it on Patreon.
How do you get this conversation?
How do you get a
conversation going on Patreon? Or maybe, maybe.
Let's rewind a little bit further back. Let's.
Like when you started to
get your patrons involved in the process,
what was that like?
What did that look like?

(44:12):
I mean,
I've been blessed with really great patrons.
There have been times where
it's really quiet on there, which sucks.
You put a lot of work into
making a post and sharing the process,
and it takes a long
time to record and edit a video.
Or to write a piece.
And sometimes I write essays that go on there,
and it never feels good to

(44:33):
release that and then to have
no one say anything and no responses.
I found out later when
I speak to my patrons in public,
that they read them,
they just don't comment.
But I would have a few people who
engaged and they would ask questions, and
that sort of helped the community get started.
It's a different environment.

(44:54):
So I would say that patrons can actually
do a lot of good by engaging with us.
And that is
also true on Instagram, you know, where people.
And it's a vulnerable
thing to share our process online.
And having hearing you connect with
the work and the process in a really

(45:14):
authentic way is really beneficial for us.
It obviously boosts the
algorithm when you comment and share,
but it also helps so that we don't
feel like we're screaming into the void.
Yes, 100% good at that. Yeah.
On Patreon,
I do think that offering the opportunity
to actually collaborate got people excited.

(45:35):
So I have something called the
Patreon Reference Library
that I invite patrons to go to,
and they make their own
little folder with their name on it,
and I invite them to say, hey,
if you have a photo on your phone that you just
think would make a great numberism drawing,
drop it in there and I'll look at it.
And if I agree and I use it,
then I will just give you a free print of it.

(45:56):
And so that's kind of a
sneaky way for you to get like.
And you will get the first option to buy the
original as well as the patron. And so, okay,
I'll just show it to you first.
A sneaky way to get an original custom
piece without going through the process. Or
if you don't have the budget for an original,
it's a sneaky way of getting a print of the
piece you've always wanted me to draw. Like,

(46:17):
maybe an anatomical crow.
I want to draw an anatomical crow.
Please order an anatomical crow from me.
I like crows.
I might do that. That sounds awesome.
It will be on my next catalog of planned works.
Blocked right now, but yeah.
And it also sounds like it works for you, too,
because then you can go and pick
and choose what you feel inspired to do,

(46:39):
and you can feel authentic doing,
which is. That's. Yeah, that's really cool.
And I can plan my next year or two
of what I'm drawing and stay focused.
It's hard for me to stay focused. You.
You end up wanting to. To.
Especially when you're studying science,
because the world is an amazing place.
And you, you know, you're like,
I want to draw bioluminescent
jellyfish and I want to draw trees
and mycelial networks and brains and.

(47:01):
But if I have a plan that I can
keep myself focused the next year or two,
it's much better for me and for my collectors.
I was going to say something else. Hold on.
What was it? Darn it, darn it, darn it. Oh.
I'm releasing my catalog
of planned works in October,
so that's when it's going to be released.
I open it for Portland Open Studios,

(47:23):
which is the second and third
weekend of October at my studio.
So Portland Open Studios is
a citywide event in Portland where
over 100 artists open their studios.
And you can come into our creative spaces,
see what we're working on.
A lot of artists,
we all hold live
demonstrations so you can see the.
You can actually watch
me create my numberism drawings.

(47:46):
And a lot of artists have discounts
and specials and exclusive pieces.
I use the event as
an opportunity to come see my work,
see the medium in person.
And you can go to the catalog
and reserve your next original. Of course,
patrons get access to the catalog
a week earlier and most
of the slots are full up by then.
There's also like usually a special private

(48:08):
preview that the patrons get where it's just
like a few of us in a quieter setting, a
bunch of nerds in a low simulating environment.
But yeah,
that's when my catalog will be unlocked.
Nice.
Okay, so early October.
Yes.
Awesome. I real quick. Actually this

(48:29):
probably isn't really quick to be fair, but I.
So I wanted to ask a
bit about your pricing structure because.
And I'm gonna give a little preface here of.
For my day job I make videos and I very
often deal with clients that you know,
from wanting me to just do a
video and then me check in with

(48:51):
them when it's done all the way to hey,
let me review your script,
let me see your first draft.
Let me like give you notes like whole gambit.
But the pricing aspect of it has
varied so much over the years and it's.
I'm still constantly refining
it and I wonder in your case,

(49:11):
do you have a set structure at this point?
Or like for example,
you mentioned the amount of research,
the type of material,
the size of the canvas
that you're going to be working on.
Do you have a set
rubric or is it very much a. Well,
I know it's going to take this number of hours

(49:33):
of research or I know this or that. How do you.
What are some of the variables that you
think about when you're pricing something?
So my originals are priced based
on the level of detail in square foot.
So my originals used to be 800 to $2,000

(49:56):
a square foot based on level of detail.
It soon became apparent to me that they all
end up being high detail because that is me.
And none of it accounts for the research time.
So I charge $2,000
a square foot for my pieces.
If it's a copper plate,
it's 5% more because them
is expensive and they are very finicky.

(50:19):
And sometimes I'll
need to buy another copper plate.
I will say that the amount of time
and work that I put into my pieces, the $2,000
a square foot,
all that seems like a lot.
And the piece that's sitting
next to me I think is $13,000,
which is a lot, right?
That doesn't actually cover my time. If

(50:39):
I were to break it down and go into an hourly,
I would be scared by how low it is.
That's what I'm getting
at is because I can't imagine.
Because if on your website you say 50 to 100,
110 hours per project and
you've already said more than that,
and I'm like, okay, well,

(50:59):
the math ain't quite math.
And in my understanding of math,
so how do you create a
comfortable cost of living for yourself?
And so I know we're talking
about all kinds of stuff and it's awesome,
but the business side of things,
how do you keep the business floating
if this doesn't even cover your time? Prints,

(51:23):
how big are they a part of your business?
Like percentage wise, maybe.
Selling reproductions
is the foundation of my business.
So when I. When I.
That estimate I have for pieces,
taking me three months to research and 100
hours to draw is a really low estimate.
The amount of time that it takes me to
actually draw these is way more than that.

(51:44):
But it's a number that's so big,
I don't want to think about it.
So I say 100 hours because people are like, oh,
that's a lot of time. And I'm like,
you have no idea.
It's probably 300 hours,
but we're just not going to talk about that.
Part of my pricing is to make it
accessible so people can actually buy it.
If I were pricing my pieces
at the rate that I am worth,

(52:04):
I wouldn't be moving pieces except
for a really small clientele
that I'm not sure I have access to.
And so I created a number that
will move and that meets what I need.
I also know that
I can make prints of these pieces.
If you want to get an exclusive drawing for me,
it's twice that much.

(52:26):
Sure. Yeah.
Because then I can't make prints of it.
And so I have.
I own the rights to the image,
and I can make reproductions however I want.
I can make shirts.
I can make paper prints and canvas prints.
I can do whatever I want with it.
Most of my income. Please hold.
I'm doing math.
I'm doing math real quick.

(52:47):
Calculators are out.
Okay, so 27% of my income
from last year was from originals.
Okay.
The rest of it was almost a.
Third, Pretty closer to a quarter.
I had a really good year last
year for originals, so that's. That's high.
The rest of it is all prints.

(53:10):
But that also. I mean, if you. You can also.
I imagine there are some
prints that keep selling like you.
That you made four years ago, five years,
or whatever it was,
that are just like they.
You've probably reaped the rewards from
that investment of time and energy well
beyond that in order to have it. But it's like.
It's like a great song, right? Like,

(53:30):
if you make a hit song,
you could have
an entire career off of one song, you know,
but you have many hits in your art.
And so by doing that, you're gonna have.
Have ones that continue to sell. Which.
Which makes sense. Which makes sense.
I actually.
I used to keep track of how much.
In the beginning,
I kept track of how much

(53:51):
I made in prints for each image.
And I don't do that quite as
well now because there's too many images.
But I had an example
with my anatomical heart piece,
which that was a really big sell for me.
It was to a nurse and a doctor,
and it was a huge piece,
and it was a really big deal.
It was the largest amount
I had made on an original then.

(54:12):
And I was like, wow,
I've made it and I don't know what this means.
And then in three months,
I made the same amount
after I released it in prints.
What, in just three months?
In three months.
That was continuous.
Be one of my
most popular pieces that I've drawn. That

(54:32):
piece is still doing really well. But if you.
I can tell you that I would not be
able to be a professional artist doing.
I don't haven't worked a day job in 15 years.
Not at all.
I haven't been part time with this.
I have been 100% full time with
my business since I started in 2008.

(54:53):
Wow, that's awesome.
Wasn't always easy.
There was a lot of ramen in the beginning,
but I would not be able to do this if
I was relying on selling originals alone.
And so as an artist,
make reproductions viable for you.
I make all my reproductions myself. Like,
it's all in a house,
which does keep costs down.

(55:14):
However you need to produce it and sometimes
that means you're going to need help.
So there's different ways to do it.
I know artists who outsource all
their prints and that's great for them.
They don't have to deal
with it or worry about it all.
They have print on demand and that's an option
for you if you're not a perfectionist like me.
Control of the whole
process and what it looks like.
We do prints and we do shirts.

(55:35):
And when I do Emerald City Comic Con,
my biggest product is an 8 by 10,
which I have really great profit margin on.
And then the shirts,
which I have not as good of a profit margin on,
but people walk around wearing it.
Hey, that's like advertising. Like,
I'm wearing one right now, so. Yes, exactly.
And I get compliments on.
I love wearing it.

(55:55):
It's like a really subtle,
nice piece with like,
like a leather jacket
or anything else on. It's like, oh, what,
they don't notice it's Star Trek right away?
And then like, oh, that's Star Trek.
It's actually more than just Star Trek,
let me tell you.
Yes, it's like nerd chic.
Exactly. Right.
The kind of stuff I want to
buy from nerdy artists aren't like,

(56:16):
I don't want to get like a Darth Vader thing.
I'm not really into Star wars anyway,
but I'm more
of a Star Trek girl myself. But like, I don't,
I don't want something that's just like a,
a copy and paste of my fandom.
I want something that's nerd chic.
I want something that is like an original take
on like the firefly that you love or, you know,

(56:37):
a really beautiful
original concept of a dragon.
That's kind of what I'm trying to achieve
with my pieces where it's like nerd cheek.
There's. Yeah, just. We.
Our last interview was with Hero Within
Clothing and they do a very. Their. Their
whole thing is like classy nerdy outerwear,

(56:58):
you know, streetwear. And,
and so I have the same shirt of
yours that Chris is wearing right now,
the prime directive. And,
and I have worn
it with that Star Trek jacket. It's
the strange New Worlds jacket. And it's, it,
it's just one of the best feelings.

(57:18):
Just like it's not, it's.
I have plenty of nerd clothes,
but these combined felt like a whole new level,
especially with some nice black slacks.
And I'm ready to go down on a way mission.
Yeah. Because like if you're wearing
actual Star Trek clothing out,
you have to be in a Star Trek

(57:39):
convention to be cool or sound cool.
But I could wear this like anywhere and
people will be like, oh, that's cool. You know,
So I think that, yeah, you.
The elevation of this nerd clothing and
making cool nerd clothing is a really awesome,
awesome thing that we
have been seeing at these cons. So Frank,

(58:00):
what do you think? Is it time?
Let's do it.
All right, let's
get to our random rolls.
We get to roll some dice now.
So random rolls.
It's a less serious,
less business focused,
more fun system.
So what we're going to do is
we're going to go back and forth. Chris and I.
You roll a D100 and we've got
a list here of different questions

(58:21):
based on the number that you roll.
So take it away.
Okay, I'm ready make
my little rolling spot here. Well,
now I want to play dd.
Yeah, I know we, a lot of our guests, we
keep on saying like we should start a
nerdpreneur game just like with
some of the neuropreneurs that we've had.
Yeah, yeah, that'd be fun. My current

(58:43):
character is in the Fate
system and she's a science druid.
Oh, I've been wanting to play Fate.
I got the book,
but I haven't actually played Fate yet.
So it's fun.
It's really low rules and high roleplay.
It's hard for me though because
you have very few boundaries and my,
my creativity knows no bounds and
so it's hard to like narrow anyway. 53.

(59:08):
53, wow.
Right on the money here in Star Trek there are
six divisions. Science, medicine, Command, Con,
security and Engineering.
Which division would you train into?
Science.
Yes. I was going to guess that that Treks.

(59:31):
That makes sense.
Are you sure you wouldn't want to do con?
You don't want to pilot the
ship and all the lives on it?
No, I don't like
having that much responsibility.
Although I would like to go onto
planet and explore new worlds. Xenobiology.
That would be fun.
Yeah. Did you have a favorite science
officer in any of the shows?

(59:55):
Oh, God, my brain is failing me. Right now.
Give me some options.
Yes. Seven of Nine is a popular one.
That was Voyager.
Deep Space Nine would be Dax.
Dax, yeah.
Jesse attacks.
I wanted to be Jadzia Deck.
She is a badass, so.

(01:00:15):
Such a badass. Intelligent, you know,
gives Klingons a run for their money.
She's great and respected
by everybody all over. Yeah, she was awesome.
I want that remake of DS9
where they get the gang back together,
and I really want her to come back. Yes,
that'd be great. All right,

(01:00:37):
please roll one more.
Okay. Only one?
We'll do three more, actually.
Okay. 96.
96. All right. Ooh. Name one person that
you would like to interview for 60 Minutes.

(01:00:57):
This seems
like a really serious question. 60 Minutes.
Oh, we can cut the time down
or increase it if there's too much.
If 60 Minutes is too much.
I mean, honestly,
right now I'm really focused on birds. So
anyone who's an ornithologist for 60 Minutes,
who'd let me ask them questions,

(01:01:19):
there's a problem with
being my kind of nerd is you. You want
to talk about your special interests forever,
and not everyone is into that.
Being at Comic Con is great for that because
you just sort of filter people with your
special interests and you can talk with them,
which is great. An ornithologist.
I'd like to interview
an ornithologist for 60 Minutes.

(01:01:39):
Someone on the level of, like, Jane Goodall.
I mean, she's not
an ornithologist, but. Yes. Okay. Jane Goodall.
Right? Right.
Yeah, Jane. Jane Goodall.
I'll take that one. Good one. Yes, please.
Oh, that one instead. I was just saying, like,
on that caliber. Okay.
All right, I'll take Jane Goodall.
Okay.
She is a gem.
Please roll one more.

(01:02:03):
I'm gonna have, like,
six new answers
to that question once we, like, hang up.
You can. You can ping
us later and be like, oh, my God, I should.
Should have said this, actually. Also,
my brain will give me the names now.
Ali Ward of Ologies.
How do I know that?

(01:02:23):
Oh, my God. How do you guys not
know Ali Ward of Ologies?
I'm gonna Google now.
It sounds familiar,
but I can't place it for my.
For me, myself, Ologies
is a science podcast where Alie Ward, who's
a science communicator and super big nerd,
interviews different
scientists from different ologies.
Like biology and phonology. Yeah,

(01:02:47):
that was the last one.
She doesn't like the term phonology.
She usually finds a word that is
actually used in scientific discord
as the ology and that one existed,
she had to use it.
But that was actually a really good episode.
I'm rambling again.
I have been trying to work on and figure

(01:03:08):
out what it is I like to do for fun.
Because what I like to do for fun is different
than what other people like to do for fun.
And what people like to
do for fun sounds terrible to me.
And so I'm like, what is fun? You know, like,
I'm asking my friends, like,
what do you do for fun? You know, like fun.
They're like,
I know what fun is. I'm like, I know,
but I don't think I know what fun is.
So what do you do for

(01:03:28):
fun and what does it feel like?
So it was really great to hear that episode
because the Scientologist. Not Scientologist,
the ologist being interviewed
was asking those same questions, like,
what does it mean for fun?
With an exclamation point.
What is that?
And I think

(01:03:50):
as an entrepreneur and an artist and a student,
it's really important to figure it
out what it is you like to do for fun
and actually interact that in your life,
which I don't tend to do. So, yes,
watch that episode.
I would love to interview Alie Ward
because she's always interviewing other people,
and I feel like we could be friends.
She's my kind of person.

(01:04:12):
I wanted to go back to birds
for one second because I just.
I couldn't remember the name of this Instagram,
but I wondered if you followed it already.
But it's Corvid research. Okay. She.
Oh, yes.
Yeah. You know, I'm talking about. Okay.
Yes. I also know her research.
Oh, awesome. I was gonna
say she's like a full on, like, doctorate.
And I've been like, I.
We should get her on the podcast.

(01:04:32):
She'd be really fascinating to talk to.
So, yeah. Her life is a dream. I love her.
Yeah.
And her world.
And I thought, great,
great name for her Instagram.
Great timing and
all of the content around crows. Really. Yeah.
So, yeah, she did her thesis,
her doctorate thesis, I believe,

(01:04:53):
on crow funerals.
Yeah. It's a weird phenomenon that crow.
Crows have a lot of weird phenomenon.
Which is makes them,
I would say, interesting phenomenon.
Well, maybe interesting
is better than weird. Yeah.
I love crows.
I have a tattoo of a crow on my arm.
So another story. Sorry.
When I went back to school after 15 years

(01:05:14):
in 2020 to get my degree in biology,
it was my in school has been blessed by crows.
On the very first day of going back to school,
it was math Class for the day one.
After 15 years of being away,
I was eating breakfast on our back
balcony patio deck and a random crow

(01:05:36):
came down and shared breakfast with me.
Ate some of my egg and then ate from my hands.
Wow.
And hung out for like 20 minutes.
Wow.
Crazy.
Yeah.
Which is why I feel like I need to draw birds.
Because they've blessed my.
I owe them one of the muses.

(01:05:57):
Well, enough of this really,
really nerdy deep stuff.
Let's talk about some other silly things with
quick questions in our rapid fire section.
Good luck.
So, yes, exactly. These
are rapid fire questions. There.
We will provide short questions,
you provide answers.
And whether your answers are right or wrong,
we will tell you. And starting off.

(01:06:18):
Oh, wait, I can be wrong. I can be.
I'm being tested.
I did say that to a student.
I'm terribly sorry.
Someone currently in school.
That might be traumatic.
So instead,
I love being tested.
Okay, you're being tested now. Who is
your favorite captain in Star Trek?
Oh, God. Oh, God. I guess Picard.

(01:06:44):
Okay, very good.
That is the correct answer. Actually,
it's a very good answer.
Picard is fantastic. As I re. Watch it.
He's just got great one.
He's also my first, so. My first captain.
There you go. Yeah, there you go.
Coffee or tea?
Tea. Now used to be coffee.

(01:07:04):
I drank tea for a while
to try to cut down on my caffeine,
and now tea tastes better than coffee.
How many cats is too many cats?
I mean,
depends on the environment.
The point at which the effort
to keep the cat boxes clean is an issue.

(01:07:27):
Is too many cats, like, it takes.
Too much time or it's too stinky or.
I can smell the cat box. Yeah.
Yes. If you can smell the cat box,
it's too many cats.
Very good.
Yeah.
Unless it's your cats and I can
come visit them and then leave. Then no end.
You can have 20 of them. That's great.
I'll get my snuggles and leave.

(01:07:48):
Do you have a Go to karaoke song?
I have several, so for. I do. Yeah.
Good to mama from Chicago.
Okay. Yeah.
Tenacious D. Wonder Boy.
That's what. That's mine too.
I sing Wonder why. That's awesome.

(01:08:08):
I kick ass on Wonder Boy.
If you can do Wonder Boy, people are impressed.
It's a good crowd pleaser. Yes.
Yes. Those. Those two.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Let's see.
I'm probably gonna go with one last one here.
You know what?
I'm gonna take it back to Star Trek. What is.

(01:08:31):
Who is the best first officer in your opinion?
The first officer Is Number One right?
That's right, yeah. Riker, Chakotay,
Una. Sorry. Yeah, Una.
In strange was Odo.

(01:08:54):
No, he's a constable. Security. Yeah,
he's dope, though. Totally agree.
Yeah, he's great. I mean, Kiro is great.
I'm also thinking of strange new worlds.
What is his name?
Of the guys, there's Spock, there's Pike.

(01:09:15):
Oh, no, I'm
not thinking strange new worlds. I'm looking.
I'm thinking of. God damn it. So many.
Discovery.
Enterprise.
Discovery.
Discovery.
No, not Enterprise.
Sorry.
I hate that show.
Everyone just turned on me right now.
That is the worst captain, by the way.
Yeah, he was.
Bakula was like,
the beige of captains.

(01:09:36):
He was just like.
I don't want to commit to any sort of, like,
personality for my captain.
Safe as. Like,
the way they wrote him, he played.
It was such a safe character and I.
We could go into it like. But
Saru is the one you're thinking of. He's the.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.

(01:09:57):
Unless you're counting Michael Burnham before.
Michael Burnham was a pretty
cool first officer when she was.
Yeah, well, you know,
the time that she. Yeah. Mutiny.
Not one time.
I mean, this is something I haven't actually
thought about this question before, and
I think of lots of questions about Star Trek.
You didn't ask me
who my favorite character ever was.
I have those two.

(01:10:20):
I think it's Ododo.
That's just a guess.
Well, Odo is one of them. So I think
characters like Odo and Data,
they are the characters that are the
most human because they're the
ones who are trying to figure it out,
and they're being authentic
and genuine about being like,
I don't know how to human.
And I'm trying to learn

(01:10:40):
how to human. Whereas. Or person. Or humanoid.
Whereas all the other humanoids who
have been humanoid their whole life are
just pretending to know how to. And they don't.
And we're all
trying to figure out how to, you know,
make romantic connections,
how to socialize,
how to work within, you know, your industry,
what your purpose in life is.

(01:11:01):
And those characters
are the only ones who are honestly.
And Seven of Nine,
those are the only characters who
are honestly saying, like, hey, I don't know.
And I'm trying to figure it out,
and I'm trying to get help from everybody
around me and using all of the resources
that are at my disposal to figure this out,
which is why I love those characters totally.
But who is your favorite number one?

(01:11:26):
I can't.
I want to say Kira.
Just because she's awesome.
She feels like she would be your,
like a really great best friend
in that she would tell you what is up.
She is really honest and direct,
which I really appreciate and

(01:11:46):
she's willing to disagree with you, so.
And also I like
that I'm choosing a female character, so.
And I was just talking about Jazzia Dax,
whom I love.
So I guess I'm going to stay
in the same world and say Kira.
We had a comedian on who
does a Star Trek podcast and he's,

(01:12:07):
he's gotten even more into the Star Trek world
and he's met a lot of the actors and he met
the actress that plays Karen Reese
and he says that she is such
a very present and vulnerable
woman that she. It's like, it's, it's so.
It's overwhelming at first,
but then like, so just, wow,

(01:12:27):
this human being is
really here with me right now. And it's.
It.
You can see that in Kira at times.
Yeah.
And. And it's. And especially when she's with
Odo and they're more open about their romance.
Like one of the best romances on tv,
by the way. Holy smokes.
Just like such. Yeah. Anyway.
And you see that and it's like, wow,
she's like that in real life. Like, what a.

(01:12:47):
What a vulnerable human being.
That's awesome.
So my final question will be
fear the AI or embrace the AI.
Oh, man. That's your last question?
Yeah. Controversial, man.
Rapid fire.

(01:13:08):
All right,
so when AI is being used to create art,
destroy the AI. AI,
when it comes to art,
is stealing from artists hard work,
labor and creativity without
any credit or benefit for them,

(01:13:30):
and is providing honestly non creative
people this sense that art is a push
button process that doesn't involve
all of the processes I was printing,
perhaps talking about with my work or any
of the artists I know who dedicate their
lives and livelihood to figuring out
how to make art artfully and skillfully.

(01:13:52):
And so I think it's a disservice to
artists and to viewers because it
takes the magic out of it.
That's not the right word.
I think that without AI,
the public is already distanced from

(01:14:13):
the hard work that goes into creating art,
into all of it,
all of the work and effort and energy.
And AI makes them
a little bit further away from that,
so they're a little bit more
disconnected to the humanity in art.
And then when it comes to AI photography,
that's even worse because you.

(01:14:34):
We have a population in America that's really
disconnected from the scientific world and
the biological World nature is far and away.
It's extended from us,
and we don't have a real relationship with it.
And there's a lot of sort of science.

(01:14:54):
What's the word?
It's sort of what. What's the. Dang it.
What's the word?
We have a lot of people who are
disbelieving scientific conclusions,
which is really bad for the general.
With our population's integration
with science and data and reason,

(01:15:15):
and being shown these false images
of flagrantly incorrect birds and.
And animal life further distances them
and removes the sense of awe that we have.
It's what I'm experiencing.

(01:15:35):
When I see images of wild,
amazing animals online.
My response used to be, wow,
that's in our world,
like crazy that you have these amazing
deep sea creatures and these, like, brilliant,
beautiful birds,
and all of these animals I've

(01:15:56):
never seen before are incredible plants.
The biological world
is incredible enough as it is.
We don't need to bring.
Make it any more incredible.
But now when I see images online instead of, I
begin and then I stop and I say, is this real?

(01:16:16):
And so I have.
I don't trust the images I see online,
and I feel disconnected from it.
And I think all of us are losing that sense
of awe of the natural world and of art,
because you see incredible
art that's posted online, you go, I don't know.
That's pretty incredible.
Is that AI and that's creating a hole in us.

(01:16:39):
We are losing something from AI,
AI art that I'm not sure we can get back.
So no to AI in that respect. However,
for your rapid questions,
I have something to say about AI Used. Well,
so AI is currently being used
in trying to discover cetacean language,

(01:17:01):
so how whales speak, for instance,
and being able to track individual whales.
And so you have huge
data processing abilities with AI
that can far exceed what we can do with.
With talented scientists.
And so instead of them spending, you know,
dozens and dozens and dozens of hours

(01:17:21):
processing images they can be working on,
they can be spending their time actually
making conclusions and doing valuable work.
And so AI,
when it is used to improve the efficiency of
data processing and when it's used for, like,
pushing forward for a language,
and that's what we need AI for.

(01:17:43):
We need AI to help
us create the universal translator.
We need AI to help us get
the basic things done in our life.
We do not need it to make us
our art or our movies or our music.
But it's a useful assistant. There's very,
very exciting things
that are being done in AI. Yeah,
I have opinions about AI. Chris.

(01:18:04):
No, that's why I was like, he.
Knew what he was walking into.
Let's ask that one. I'm,
I'm loving that question because I,
I think we are getting
a little bit into the nuances of,
of how we have to parse this as a
society because it's so relevant right now.
And I'm sure it, for you, it touches
right onto what you do. And yeah, it's. Yeah,

(01:18:26):
I really wanted to hear what
it was you had to say about it, so thank you.
I have another point about AI Art,
if it's okay. I'm sorry.
That's all right.
Yeah, we're way over time
and I'm about to stop.
But this year has been
much less profitable for most artists
that I know at events. And historically,
election years haven't

(01:18:46):
been good for vendors in general.
But I can't help but wonder if AI is
affecting that because of that lack of
wonder that people are getting disconnected
from art and that that's our customer base.
So, Sienna, this has been so awesome
and thank you so much for coming on
to share with us your story and aspire.

(01:19:06):
I hope other people to pursue
their nerdy passion into a business.
If you had any last piece of advice for people
who are out there aspiring to be successful,
nerdy entrepreneurs or nerdpreneurs,
what would you give them
as your last piece of advice here?
I would say do what you love and be sure

(01:19:29):
to take care of yourself while you're doing it.
If you are lucky enough to be successful,
you need to make it sustainable.
So self care is
a fundamental part of your business. It's not,
it's not a luxury. It's required.
And for all of our listeners,
thanks again for listening and as always,
keep it nerdy.

(01:20:02):
And where can people find you,
support you and maybe get some art from you?
So for the socials,
you can follow me on Instagram.
Sienna Art Studios is me on Instagram.
I really recommend Patreon.
You can see what I'm working on,
get behind the scenes, access
my process and get 15 off everything forever.

(01:20:22):
You also get early access
to my catalog of planned works.
As mentioned earlier,
I'll be at Rose City Comic Con in September.
Assuming this is coming out before then,
it might be coming out afterwards,
in which case,
hi people that I met at Rose City Comic Con
and at Portland Open Studios in
the first and second weekend of October.

(01:20:43):
If you're in Portland,
come by my art studio.
You'll get to see my space
whale and my lonely whale completed,
and I'm opening up my books there,
and you can explore my art studio
and talk nerdy with me in person.
I will probably go on
as long as I've gone on here.

(01:21:03):
Well, thank you. It was wonderful.
You guys are so patient with me.

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The Business of Scientific Art with Sienna Art Studios - Interview 29

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Business of Scientific Art with Sienna Art Studios - Interview 29