March 15, 2025 • 52 mins
In this episode, Dr. Jade Teta and Dr. Nicole Cain talk about Dr. Cain's new book Panic Proof. They explore the intersection of mindset, trauma, and healing. They discuss how life difficulties, both big and small, can impact our mental and physical health, and the importance of understanding these experiences through a holistic lens. Dr. Cain shares insights on neuroplasticity, the myths surrounding anxiety, and the role of the amygdala in our fear responses. The conversation emphasizes the potential for healing and personal agency through understanding and addressing our emotional stories and adaptations. The conversation also explores the intricacies of emotional healing, focusing on techniques such as amygdala deamplification and the importance of understanding our emotional responses. They cover how past experiences shape our present and how we can transform pain into purpose. The dialogue emphasizes practical steps for emotional healing, including self-awareness and intentional practices to foster a healthier relationship with our emotions.
Contact Dr Cain:
Website: www.https://drnicolecain.com/
Instagram: @drnicolecain
Get The Book, Panic Proof
Chapters:
00:00:00 Meeting Dr. Nicole Kane
00:03:19 Understanding Trauma Beyond the Capital T
00:10:14 Myths About Anxiety and Adaptation
00:16:14 Neuroplastic Syndrome and Brain Interpretation
00:24:06 The Science Behind Emotional Adaptations
00:35:42 Amygdala Deamplification Technique Demonstration
00:45:21 Pain as a Path to Purpose
Looking for a Next Level Human Coach? Get on the waitlist and get access to the brand-new science of quantum metabolism and identity restructuring with Dr Jade and the team.
http://nextlevelhuman.com/human-coaching
Want to become a Next Level Human Coach? Get on the waitlist. Go to: http://www.nextlevelhuman.com/human-coach
Connect with Next Level Human
Website: www.nextlevelhuman.com
support@nextlevelhuman.com
Connect with Dr. Jade Teta
Website: www.jadeteta.com
Instagram: @jadeteta
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the show everybody.
My name is Dr Jade Tita.
This is the Next Level HumanPodcast and I have a guest that
I've been hearing about for awhile.
We are in the same field.
We have not yet met, so this isour first time connecting in
person.
This is Dr Nicole Kane.
She has a new book out calledPanic Proof came out in October,
and she is someone who you know.
(00:21):
It's interesting when you get inthis podcasting space you
oftentimes get inundated with aton of people saying, hey, I
have this great person, wouldyou like them on your show?
And so I got this from Nicole'speople and I was like I've
heard of her and sort of seenher around on social media.
I already knew I was a fan andI was like, absolutely, I want
her to come on.
(00:42):
And I'll tell you, nicole, as Iset this up for the listener
part of what I forget where Iwas exposed to you, but I think
I've seen your clips on socialmedia.
You do a lot with education andjust are an amazing educator.
And I thought to myself youknow, here's a naturopathic
doctor like myself who has alsospent an awful lot of time in
(01:03):
the personal development spaceand mindset space, and I wanted
to talk to you about thatbecause I don't oftentimes get
to talk to other practitionerslike you and I who have moved in
this direction.
Now, of course, I know that youspend an awful lot of time
educating people on healthylifestyle and all those things,
so we can delve into that aswell.
But honestly, selfishly, I wasreally just wanting to talk to
(01:24):
you about how you got into moreof the mindset space and helping
people heal the mental stuff,and so I was just really excited
to have a chat with you.
So thank you for taking thetime to sit down with me.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I'm so excited to be here.
I have like a million ideas anddirections we could go that are
going to be juicy andfascinating and, I think,
valuable for hopefully,everybody listening Definitely
selfishly for me so this isgoing to be a great combo.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Yeah.
So here's the thing.
I thought maybe I would share afew thoughts that I could use
some help on.
Actually, One of the thingsthat I am delving deep into is
this aspect of you know.
People might call it trauma work, and from my perspective I
don't necessarily love this,because, yes, there's these
people with capital T traumasthat we think about.
(02:13):
You know, physical abuse, sexualabuse, you know, being in a war
zone, this kind of stuff, andof course that stuff is really
sort of traumatic and stressfuland difficult.
But there's other people whojust have, you know, maybe they
were bullied when they were ateenager, Maybe they had a
difficult mother or a difficultfather, Maybe they had sibling
things that came up, Maybe theywent through some financial
(02:34):
stuff, a health scare, you nameit.
They're not necessarily capitalT traumas, but they seem to have
negative impact in thephysiology as well.
And the other thing I want tojust add to that is that it
seems to me also that somepeople with these quote capital
T traumas don't really seethemselves that way.
They don't really seethemselves as traumatized,
(02:56):
whereas other individuals withthese sort of let's call them
lower T traumas do.
And so I'm really interested inthis aspect of how let's just
call them life difficulties.
These difficult life events getstuck on us in a sense, and
certainly you've written anawful lot about some of the
emotions that come along withthis, like anxiety, but I'm
(03:18):
really just interested inhearing you, as another
practitioner, sort of give yourtake on what actually is going
on here, and why do these sortof difficult life events seem to
follow us around and how do wedeal with them?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I heard a quote recently and it was your brain
doesn't care about yourwell-being, about your
well-being, it cares about yoursafety.
And all of us are here, we'reall living because we had
ancestors whose brains, bodies,nervous systems and other
adaptive systems were poised tosuccessfully protect them.
(03:58):
And so in our modern era wehave these caveman brains.
And then we're putting thatsurvival instinct in our modern
era and it can feel very muchlike I'm at war against my body,
or my body is broken or there'ssomething wrong with me.
And why do I feel?
Why do I get hot flashes allthe time?
(04:20):
Or why do I have ADHD and Ican't focus, or why is my my
sleep a mess, or why is mythyroid out of balance?
And what you were just sayingright there in that moment, I
think, hits the nail on the head, because what you're doing is
you're changing the paradigmfrom a more disease-based system
to we have all of thesesymptoms.
(04:41):
They're bad, let's make them goaway.
But rather you're looking inthe way that you frame the
question as all of theseexperiences that we have are
adaptations to what did or didnot happen to us, and I think
there's a really importantnuance in that is again.
My symptoms are theaccumulation, what did or did
(05:03):
not happen to me?
Those adaptations have gottenme where I am today, so I really
appreciate just even the waythat you entered that
conversation.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Yeah, I love that.
You know it's interesting.
This is kind of a new term tome, I think you'll get it but
this idea of neuroplasticsyndrome, which is 40% of
individuals who go to doctors,who get worked up for sort of
chronic complaints.
We now know that neuroplasticsyndrome is about 40% of these
individuals and, for those ofyou who've never heard that term
(05:33):
before, essentially what itmeans is that there is no
physical cause of these symptoms.
These people have been workedup, their livers have been
looked up, their thyroids havebeen studied, their
gastrointestinal system has beenstudied.
They can't find a physicalcause.
Yet they are having pain thatcauses them to double over in
their abdomen, they're havingchronic migraines, they're
(05:54):
having all these symptoms thatare troubling for them.
Starting to point to the factthat this is coming from the
brain and the brain'sinterpretation, perhaps, of just
what you were talking about,nicole, this idea that we go
through certain things and thebrain is looking at our safety
and it seems to want to hold onto particular things and then
(06:18):
draw our attention through,perhaps, signs and symptoms
where there is no actualphysical diagnosis.
And I thought that was prettyamazing, that up to 40 percent
and this is just people whowhere maybe this is caused by
the brain and how it is takinginto these difficult life events
perhaps.
But think about the other 60percent of conditions that they
(06:40):
may not be caused by this, butperhaps this is contributing to
the issue that they may not becaused by this, but perhaps this
is contributing to the issue.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
And then we get these kind of toss-in diagnoses like,
well, it's chronic fatigue ifyou're tired or you can't think
and focus, or it's fibromyalgiaif you have body pains, or it
must be irritable bowel syndromeif it's in your
gastrointestinal tract, and it'skind of those diagnoses or the
healthcare systems sort ofscratching their head and
trailblazers like next levelhuman podcast.
The work that you do here iswe're looking at what the
(07:15):
research is actually telling usis happening and when we look at
more of a whole person approach, instead of, like your, your
gut is inflamed, I'm going tosee a gastroenterologist and, oh
, by the way, I have necktension.
I'm going to go see anorthopedist and I have headaches
, I'm going to see a neurologistthat instead, if we look at how
(07:37):
the body as an entire systemadapts to adversity, stress,
trauma or even positivestressors, that that adaptation
exists systemically and we havebiofeedback loops that are
systemic, and so suddenly thistrauma-informed research is
opening the doors as to whatmight actually be going on at
(08:00):
the root.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, yeah.
So I, you know, what I want todo is I can tend to sort of want
to just jump in here and belike, Ooh, here's like check out
this study in this study, but Ireally wanted you on because I
wanted to get your sense.
One of the things I love aboutbeing in this podcast position
is talking to experts and goinglet me see how they frame this
up, cause you oftentimes, as youknow, you hear things in a
(08:22):
different way, you learn thingsin a different way, and so if
you were going to explain sortof your work, how you got there
and just where you would beginwith educating someone on all of
this, I wanted you to just, youknow, go ahead and start where
you sort of want to start toeducate us on this, this whole
thing, because I think it isstill incredibly new to most
(08:42):
people still incredibly new tomost people.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Where I start is that probably almost everything that
you've heard about anxiety is amyth.
Starting with, anxiety can't behealed, and that was a question
that I asked when I was reallyyoung.
I came into this world with alot of familial trauma,
epigenetic adversity, and thenmy childhood was really
difficult and stressful, andsome of these were big T events
(09:12):
and some of them were little Tevents.
Arguably most of it was justcomplex micro things that
happened, and it's sort of likelearning to ride a bike.
So every time you tip ever soslightly to the right, the brain
, the body, the nervous systemwill get that feedback, it will
adapt and you'll tip to the leftuntil eventually you can be
(09:33):
riding on gravel down in uphills.
You can be riding and I'm herein Arizona, south Mountain
mountain biking.
You can adapt to differentterrains, you can adapt to
different terrains.
And so the question is is whatif anxiety isn't a problem to be
solved?
What if it is my body and mymind's attempt at telling me
(09:54):
what the problem is, so that Ican resolve it?
And so then I started to lookat the science, I started to
look at neuroplasticity, Istarted to look at the
relationship betweenpsychoneuroimmunology the mind,
your immune system, the nervoussystem and how they all
interplay.
And a really great metaphor forthis is I live half the year in
(10:18):
Michigan.
It's very cold there in thewinter.
That's why I'm not there rightnow, when we're recording this,
in February, right, and as anadaptation, we put on a winter
coat and that coat protects us,it keeps us from getting
frostbite, it keeps us fromgetting too cold, and that's an
adaptation.
The cold is neither good norbad, it just is.
It's not necessarily a trauma,it's just a stressor and it can
(10:42):
become really, reallyproblematic for survival if we
don't adapt to it.
But we adapted.
So I put on a coat and then Imoved to Phoenix and those
adaptations that coat that wasprotective, that helped me
survive in one environment wouldhave been a real problem living
in Phoenix in the summer it'stoo hot, suddenly the coat
(11:04):
causes overheating.
So what happens is when adaptivemechanisms get stuck or they
get stuck in these feedbackloops and then they no longer
continue to shift and pivotbased on our circumstances.
And so the question that we canthen ask is if you're thinking
about this with your own storyor your clients, your patients'
(11:26):
stories is, if you look at theircurrent experience and you look
at it from a systemic approachwhich would be mind, body,
spirit, habits, behaviors, andyou look at all of that and you
allow them to pull that up withcuriosity and compassion, is you
(11:47):
can then start to almostreverse down the timeline.
It's like driving a trainbackwards towards where it came
from and trying to identifywhere did this come from?
What is this an adaptation to?
Because if we can go in andcorrect those adaptations, we
can unwind those adaptationsusing transpersonal work,
(12:10):
psychology, gut psychology work,whatever it is that's in your
zone of genius that that clientwould benefit from.
If we can get to the very rootof that, the early adaptive
mechanism, where that came from,then suddenly we get to ask
different questions.
Instead of asking, well, can weactually heal from anxiety,
(12:32):
which is yes, absolutely, we canstart asking well, what is my
human potential?
How can I go up to, as youteach, the next level?
If my body is in such a stateof fluency and resilience and
vitality and I'm able toactually take that coat on and
off within my sense of personalagency and power, what could
(12:53):
that actually look like for meif I leverage that to uplevel my
life.
So the whole question changes.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, I love this so much.
Let me give a little bit of myperspective so we can continue
with this journey.
I love this idea to me.
Going backwards in time right,if we take that train I love
these analogies you're using andwe go backwards to time and
let's say we see an event inJade's life.
I often talk about thistraumatic event.
(13:23):
That's not a capital T trauma,it's actually no one's fault, it
just occurred.
But I was left on a baseballfield for a couple hours in the
dark when I was a kid, justbecause my parents were had.
I had several siblings and theywere going in different
directions that logically, as anadult, we could all go.
Oh, we know what happened.
My mom got home, looked at mydad, said where's Jade?
He goes, well, I thought youwere getting Jade and they both
(13:52):
freak out and then run off andget me.
Meanwhile I'm the six-year-oldsitting in the dark at this
baseball field, nobody's fault.
But I then have this what Imight call misguided,
unconscious decision.
I call it mud, this mud thatforms in my brain because of
that traumatic experience that,through nobody's fault and just
through an accident of life, Isay life isn't safe in some way.
And then that follows me aroundin the way I trust people
perhaps, and you know what DrNicole's pointing to is that
(14:14):
sometimes this happens in lotsof little things occurring that
slowly tell this story.
That then seeps into yoursubconscious.
So it doesn't have to be thisbig all at one shot.
And here's the question that Iwant to ask you about, because I
know you that then seeps intoyour subconscious, so it doesn't
have to be this big all-at-oneshock.
And here's the question that Iwant to ask you about, because I
know you specialize in anxiety.
One of the things that strikesme as you said something really
(14:35):
interesting there about anxietybeing sort of almost like
something that is speaking toyou, perhaps a protective
mechanism, and I oftentimesthink that emotions seem to have
stories associated with them,right?
So, like depression seems tohave a story about trust and
hope, anxiety seems to have astory about being able to make a
choice or own a choice onceit's made.
(14:55):
Insecurity is a story aboutself-worth and belief in
yourself, and so I'm wonderingthen these things occur.
We go back in time to thistrain, we see this thing with
Jade, and then we follow forwardand say, oh, this anxiety
around whenever he's out ofcontrol, let's say, is connected
to these stories.
Is this how you're seeing thisand, if so, what else goes along
(15:20):
with this?
How does this seep into maybemood issues and physical issues
and everything else?
I just want to see how youunwind this.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
This is so good.
Thank you for sharing thisconcrete example, and to little
Jade, I'm so sorry that happened.
That must have been so scary.
So for him, you're very strongand you're very brave, and that
was probably hard.
So I see you, you I honor you.
Oh, that's hard as a littleperson.
(15:50):
So if, if, we unwind this andwe're going to do this
theoretically, because you and Ihaven't gotten to dive into the
mud, as you will, but let's,let's speak theoretically.
So in that moment, little jadeis sitting there and he's
sitting in the dark and theinsula of the brain, this part
(16:11):
of the brain that is associatedwith the thalamus and the
salience network.
It's scanning, it's noticingthe dirt of the baseball field,
it's noticing the quietness, ormaybe there are sounds around.
It's noticing the heart beatingin the body.
(16:53):
It's noticing, maybe even thetaste of fear in the mouth.
It, your audience knows, islargely the amygdala, with its
buddies, its associates, and itcan create a fear response.
So then little Jade is like ohmy goodness, I'm afraid I'm all
alone.
And that is paired with a lackof personal power and agency,
because in that moment you werea child.
You couldn't just call a Waymoor an Uber and rescue yourself.
You had to wait for someoneelse to come rescue you.
In that moment you were a child.
You couldn't just call a Waymoor an Uber and rescue yourself.
You had to wait for someoneelse to come rescue you in that
moment.
So now we have this, this, nowexperience has become scary.
(17:15):
We lose our agency.
So we don't stop here, thoughthe whole body is like, okay,
we're in danger, I've got you.
So now we have the amygdala andit's going to send on this
cascade that recruits your bodyto go into a fear response, and
so your hypothalamic, pituitaryadrenal axis is going to be
(17:35):
releasing stress hormone,cortisol.
You're going to releaseadrenaline and, as a result of
that, you're going to seechanges in the gut microbiome.
We see that the gut microbiomecan change very quickly from
moment to moment, based on whatyou eat, based on your
experiences.
That gut microbiome iscommunicating bidirectionally
(17:56):
with your brain via the vagusnerve and the enteric nervous
system, and everything isgetting memorized.
And so, now that experience isgetting stored in the body, we
have inflammation that can takeplace and a whole domino effect
of these feedback loops that aretaking place.
And now that state's gettingmemorized and the brain doesn't
(18:17):
care about your well-being.
Little Jade's brain is like wegot to get this whole body to
keep us safe.
Brain is like we got to getthis whole body to keep us safe.
So you're in this pattern.
This pattern gets memorized andnow going forward.
Anytime that there's somethingthat's reminiscent to that
pattern in your internal orexternal environment, this
(18:37):
memorized head-to-toe state canget activated.
So when we think about if we setthat aside for just a moment
and we think about somebody whogoes to their doctor and they're
like I'm losing weight, I'meating all the things, I can't
stop losing weight, I'm losingall my hair, my skin is really
dry and I'm really anxious, Ihave palpitations and I can't
(19:00):
sleep.
Doctor can say sounds likethyroid.
I can confirm that with a bloodtest.
And not only can I confirm thatwith a blood test.
We have medical treatments,surgery, radiation.
We have treatments that we canuse for that.
But then let's say that littleJade goes into the doctor and
(19:22):
he's like I'm getting colds andflus, I feel like my gut is a
mess.
I get gas and bloating, I getgut anxiety.
I feel nervous.
I just don't know why I havethese just anxious thoughts.
My brain is spinning.
I want to be a high performerbut I feel held back by this and
the doctor's like cognitivebehavioral therapy or an
(19:45):
antidepressant, maybe a PRNbenzo, but then you're still
going to have the systemicadaptation plus.
You're going to be feelingfrustrated that, no matter how
much you talk about it, that thebody doesn't care what you have
to say about it.
Or you're going to be on anantidepressant and you're going
to have all these symptoms.
Plus, you may feel a littlezombied out, lose your libido
(20:06):
and start gaining weight, and sothe conclusion that would be
drawn I think that we're doingsuch a good job now with the
trauma-informed research is thatwe can look back and say, oh,
this thing happened.
He may not even remember it, butthe body keeps the score and we
can start doing the work, thework to release that.
And then, when the body keepsthe score and we can start doing
the work to release that, andthen when the body's like, oh,
(20:30):
that's not relevant anymore,when we do the amygdala
deamplification which we couldtotally get into, when we do
that amygdala deamplification,when we decrease those
connections to all thoseassociative networks and then
start increasing the connectionsto the agency part of your
brain, that prefrontal cortex,then suddenly your symptoms get
better and you don't need thetalk therapy, you don't need the
(20:52):
antidepressants, you don't needthe omeprazole for your gut,
and now you can up-level.
So that's like one little kindof boop toe in.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Nicole, you're such an amazing teacher, I mean, that
was so well said that I reallythink the listeners are just
going to really be able tounderstand that and grasp that.
And I do want to get into thisidea of going in and dealing
with the amygdala.
And the interesting thing is,if we unpack a little bit of
what you said, right.
So there's this idea and pleasecorrect me if I get any of this
(21:24):
wrong, I just want to repeat itjust because I know it's maybe
complicated for some of thelisteners.
But so we have this sympatheticstate that we're in, right,
this fight or flight nervoussystem response, and the insula
is getting involved here.
It's surveilling.
We're having this amygdalaresponse, this fear response,
where then all of this is whatthe body does.
So it releases adrenaline andcortisol.
(21:45):
And what some of the researchsays when you have these huge
adrenaline and cortisol surges,they kind of get this neurology
sort of cemented in place.
And so I love this idea and Iwant to see what you think about
it.
It's like literally it seemsthat that little jade neurology
lives in adult jade, likethere's literally this cemented
neurology that represents littlescared Jade on the baseball
(22:06):
field.
That is cemented inside of mewhenever there is perhaps a
fight or flight response thatsomewhat resembles the chirping
of the crickets and the dirt,and that night that then
triggers me.
And what's interesting is so,if all of that is true, you
brought in something reallybeautiful, which is this idea of
agency.
So I like to think of now, ifwe can somehow and I think this
(22:30):
is where you're going to take usbut if we can somehow go back
into the sympathetic state butbe in a safe place and rewrite
the narrative, the mud that wetold ourselves then, the
misguided, unconscious decision.
Now we go in with an awarenessand revisit this perhaps in some
way, but we go in with safetymechanisms and resourcing.
(22:52):
We can and should be able tomaybe shut down this amygdala
response.
And am I getting this right?
And if I am, what are the toolsto do this?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
That brilliant.
That's so good, as you'resaying that there are a lot of
wonderful tools and the greatthing about this is that it can
be personalized for for you, andso there's a couple we can do
together, we can talk through,and then I teach all about this
in my book, and so people arelike like, oh, I want more.
(23:26):
What are the other ones?
It'll you can find it there.
One is I can teach us aboutamygdala deamplification, and
two, we can do the four partprocess.
And then number three is wecould do the three minute hack
and then so, let me, you canpick which one would make the
most sense, and I'll talk aboutwho might be ideal for each.
(23:49):
So for amygdala deamplification,that's really good for people
who have a single big event andit's really hard to get out of
that.
And it's like one thing youdon't have necessarily all these
other associative networkswhere it's like a whole ball of
cat yarn or maybe necklaces anda drawer, and you're like, ah,
(24:09):
you pull them all out, they'reall stuck together.
This amygdala deamplification,I see you working really well
for a big, big event like thisone that you just talked about
in the ball field.
That's a good one for this.
The second one, the threeminute hack, is really good if
there's inner child work and youwant to learn how to do inner
child work, if that resonateswith you.
(24:31):
And then the third one is morefor complex stress, complex
adversity, and that's goingthrough a four-point process and
so, based on Little Jade, whatdo you feel like would be most
helpful we can do together today?
Speaker 1 (24:46):
I mean I love all those, but let's just do the
amygdala deamplification so theycan see how this works.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yes, so amygdala deamplification is borrowed from
.
We stand on the shoulders ofgiants right, and so this is
borrowed from EMDR, which is eyemovement, desensitization and
reprocessing therapy.
This has been around since the1980s and it involves bilateral
stimulation, left and rightstimulation, either with the
(25:16):
eyes or hand buzzers thatbilaterally alternate.
It also borrows from internalfamily systems, and so if anyone
has seen Inside Out and we knowabout parts, it's borrowing
from that, and it's alsoborrowing from hypnosis and
calming of the body.
This is how we do it.
So step number one is thatyou're going to think about and
(25:38):
we'll use little Jade's example,but for those who are listening
, you can do this exercise withus.
So think about something thatyou want to maybe start to the
process of reprogramming.
So you get a little activatedwith this, you feel a little
stressed with this.
Maybe it's the Sunday scaries,or maybe it's when you have to
(25:58):
drive on the interstate, ormaybe it's when your phone calls
come in, like whatever it is.
So notice that, and what we'regoing to be doing together is
you're going to identifywhatever it is you're working on
.
We're going to talk aboutLittle Jade and the baseball
diamonds.
You're going to go back andyou're going to notice your
thoughts, your feelings and yoursensations.
So that will be the first part,and for those who are doing
(26:21):
this exercise, your eyes aregoing to be closed if you feel
safe.
The second part is we're goingto, we're activating those
memory networks.
We're going into it in step one, and then step two is we're
going to create connections tothe logical brain.
And so how do we activateexecutive control network?
How do we activate logicalbrain?
(26:42):
We see in the research thatthis is done with distraction,
with math, with spelling, withthings that require you to think
about it, and so when littleJade gets activated, that whole
memory network is concreted in,just like you said, and he
doesn't have access to adult,amazing, healer, entrepreneurial
(27:06):
, next level human.
He doesn't have access to that.
We're going to create thataccess and this could be a very
quick exercise.
So during this second half Iknow this is a lot of lead up,
but it'll make sense.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
No, this is wonderful information.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Good, good, good, good.
So during the part where we'regoing to be activating
prefrontal cortex, activatingyour logical agency part of your
brain, is you're going to beactivating prefrontal cortex,
activating your logical agencypart of your brain, is you're
going to be using somatic-basedtreatment because the body keeps
the score.
Thank you, bessel van der Kolk.
The best right.
So I borrowed this fromHavening, and Havening is
(27:40):
amygdala de-amplification, whereyou use touch, and so in
Havening there are differentplaces.
One is you could put your palmstogether and then you're going
to just alternate them back andforth, kind of like you're
dusting your palms off and so,for those who are just listening
to the audio file, you're justgoing to imagine palms up, dust
(28:01):
to the left, dust to the right.
The second one you can do isyou can imagine you cross your
arms and you dust down your armsand you just touch.
I like this one because you'recrossing the midline.
The third one I have bangs, soI don't like this one.
My hair looks beautiful and Idon't want to touch it.
But if you don't mind, ifyou're not vain, then they think
(28:26):
the most effective one is youstroke from your forehead down
the sides of your face.
Okay, so let's do this together.
We'll make this a really minione for the sake of time,
because I know people havethings to do, but we'll just go
through the motions and you andI'll do this together.
We'll spend like three minutes,is that okay?
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Perfect, yeah, let's go.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
You and I'll do this together.
We'll spend like three minutes,is that okay?
Perfect, yeah, let's go.
All right.
All right.
So if you feel comfy, I wouldlove for you to close your eyes
and bring yourself back to thatnight on the ball diamond and
you might start to settle intothe sounds that you heard around
you the crickets.
You might notice the sensationsof the dirt, maybe the
(29:05):
temperature that it was as itbecame darker.
Maybe there's a smell that youcan remember, the smell of being
outside in grass and dirt.
And then I want you to noticewhat's coming up in your body,
where you feel that, theemotions that are coming up, and
we're going to hold on to that.
Yeah, what do you feel?
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Yeah, I feel my heart's picking up, queasiness
in my stomach, just a generalfeeling of unease.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Let's hold on to that for about 10 seconds.
We don't have to change it,you're just going to notice it.
And then, with your eyescontinuing to be closed, I want
you to start the havening.
With your eyes continuing to beclosed, I want you to start the
havening, if you don't mind.
Fingers to palms, kind of likeyou're getting ready for a nice
meal.
And then, dr Jade, can youplease spell your first and last
(29:57):
name for me?
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Yeah, it's J-A-D-E.
And then can you countbackwards from 40 by twos 20, 18
(30:23):
, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 0.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
And then can you name as many US basketball teams
that you can think of.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Seattle Supersonics.
Are they still around Dallas,mavericks?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
LA Lakers Phoenix Suns.
I think that's your group.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
And the Knicks, the Nets, the Bulls, the Celtics.
That's all I can think of.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
That's all I could think of too.
That was really good.
And then can you spell yourfirst and last name backwards
for me A and then we're going togo back into that memory.
You're going to go back tobeing on that baseball diamond,
(31:19):
knowing that you're alone.
Notice what's different.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Yeah, it's interesting it's lost some
charge and it's moved from mysolar plexus kind of up into my
heart area.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
So this is where we would repeat that, and ideally
we would keep dipping in anddipping out until it's
completely gone, but the movingis really good, and so what I'd
like to actually have you do iswe're going to container this
just because we're not going tobe getting to finish all of it,
(31:54):
and so I want you to imaginethat it's 2025 and your adult,
doctor, amazing, influencer selfthat you have next to your feet
a container can be made of anymaterial, any size, and what I
want to have you do is take thismemory and I want you to
(32:19):
surround it with golden light.
You might even feel inclined tobreathe that golden light into
your body and then, with theexhales, breathe that memory,
that image, into the container,maybe bring your mindful
awareness to your heart and yourgut, breathe in that golden
(32:40):
light if you wish, and thenbreathe out into the container
any tension or stress, and thisis to not get rid of this memory
or this image, but to put itsomewhere for safekeeping.
You can come back and keepdoing the work whenever you wish
, but now you get to rest andwhen you feel complete, you can
(33:04):
put the lid on the container andyou can open your eyes.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Yeah, that's super powerful.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
I would love to have gone through that whole cycle
with you, yeah, but I think thatjust gives people an amazing
understanding of the process.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yes, thank you for doing that.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Yeah, and thank you for doing that for me, and isn't
it interesting just for you,the listener, to know?
So I have done work on thisparticular memory and other
memories, but not in thisspecific way, the way Nicole
does it, and I definitely feltwas able to kind of get to a
really interesting place.
A couple interesting thingscome up.
Even before you had said aboutyou know, you're this amazing,
(33:44):
you know, influencer and teacher, I could see how that
experience was something thatwas useful for me in, you know,
kind of being a teacher, and soit's really interesting that
sometimes that happens and I seethat with my clients and
patients as well.
Sometimes they'll make thatintegration and that jump from.
Oh, this was also instructiveand I have been using this
(34:06):
perhaps as a way of learning,teaching and loving in life and
so that integration process ofthat story you said something
really interesting about notnecessarily getting rid of it,
but you know sort of this ideathat you get to learn from it in
some way.
At least that's what happenedinside of me, that I wanted
everyone to kind of hear,because I see this happen often
when I'm working with people inthis way, that they will make
(34:27):
these connections, that sort ofclear things, and I don't know
if you see that as well often.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I have the biggest smile on my face because I feel
like you just tied thisbeautiful bow around the message
that my heart is to get acrossin this conversation, as we
started in the beginning andwe're debunking the myth that
you can't solve anxiety andwe're showing us how anxiety is
an adaptation to what did or didnot happen to you.
(34:54):
And then we moved on and weasked the question of well, how
can I up level?
What's next?
And so what you just describedis that you alchemized, or
you're in the process ofalchemizing, an experience that
not only brings you to a neutralbaseline of being anxiety free,
but you're able to use thatexperience, alchemize that
(35:17):
experience to then you knowHahnemann teaches about this to
show up in such a way thatyou're able to use your mind and
your body for the purposes thatyou were brought here on this
earth to do, to be and toilluminate in such a way that it
obliges wonder from those whoare looking on.
And so people see you in yourbright, golden light and they're
(35:41):
like where do I get me some ofthat?
Speaker 1 (35:43):
And that comes from doing this work, and isn't it
interesting?
Yeah, if I can, if I couldpiggyback off of that the next
level, human work.
This is why I think I wasreally excited to connect with
you, because it seems like wehave the same message.
From my perspective, it seemsto me that hidden in this, the
suffering and the pain and thehurt that we experience, that
hidden in that, in some way,it's pointing us towards finding
(36:06):
an aspect of ourselves thatserves our growth and the
enrichment of others and theevolution of the world, so
almost that this suffering ismeant to be a source of meaning
and this, this pain, is meant tobe a path to purpose and this
hurt is meant to be a way tohelp, but not if we can't find a
way to process it.
I oftentimes think that when wecut our finger, you know we feel
(36:26):
the finger getting cut, whichis what makes us pay attention
to it and then deal with it.
And, of course, then the healingprocess is not just about, you
know, changing the bandages andputting the antibiotic ointment
on the finger.
It's really about knowing okay,I cut my finger, so next time
I'm in the kitchen cuttingvegetables, I will be careful in
some way, and perhaps even Iwill learn to cut vegetables and
(36:48):
go out on YouTube and findvideos to help me, and maybe
even as a result of that, I endup becoming an amazing cook and
a chef, you know, or something.
And to me it seems as if thisis the work that you and I have
perhaps stumbled across, in thisidea that, yes, our body knows
how to heal and we knowintuitively how to deal with
physical pain and physicalinjuries, but no one has ever
(37:09):
taught us in the way that DrNicole just did on how to deal
with when we cut ourmetaphorical, emotional thumb.
We've never actually learnedhow to feel, deal and heal from
that stuff, and so this is why Ithink this works so powerful.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I love how you said feel, deal and heal, because one
of the number one things that Isee happening out, especially
in the anxiety world, butarguably a lot of our symptoms
is what can we do to make it goaway?
A lot of people ask me I get somany DMs, what supplement can I
take to stop panic?
And, yeah, I can give youalternatives to benzos.
(37:47):
I can give you theanine andkava and passiflora, and those
have a place.
But even better is what youjust talked about is is figuring
out what, how, what is thepurpose of this and what needs
healing.
And then how can I leveragethat to be a next level human.
This is such a good podcastnames.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yeah, I love it so much and I'll say one more thing
and get your final thoughts onthis, then we can begin wrapping
up.
But you know, one of the thingsI think about with this pain
and I want to see how you relateto this you know, there's, it
seems that to me, that we canhave if we don't feel, deal and
heal in the way that you'vedescribed and we don't have
these mechanisms and methods andpeople to go to, like you and
(38:29):
myself, that in a sense, ashumans, I feel like I liken it
to like carrying a backpack.
So you're carrying thisbackpack full of pain.
Let's imagine it's filled upwith bricks, and we can play the
villain in a sense, and many ofus will, and we can have
compassion here because hurtpeople don't know necessarily
how to deal with their hurt andso oftentimes they will
inadvertently take bricks fromthe backpack and throw them at
(38:51):
other people because they don'tknow what else to do with them,
and so that I would call thevillain state.
And then there's, of course,the victim state, where we
become so used to and accustomedto the heaviness of that
backpack that we over-identifywith the bricks in a sense.
And you know, woe is me, and weblame and complain.
Of course I don't want anyone tohear me wrong, because I think
(39:11):
it is required for healing.
We must at some point, we mustbe a victim to heal, but we
can't get stuck there.
And so I think the final sortof stage is the victor stage
which you're pointing us toward,which is to understand that
these bricks, this pain, liveswith us.
We do have to carry it.
We can't ever take the backpackoff, but we can see these
bricks as building blocks forour own personal growth and to
(39:33):
enrich others and evolve theworld, so we can use them to
build something beautiful forourselves and other people.
And perhaps that's the wholepoint of suffering in the first
place.
But we can't do it unless wehave techniques and tools, like
what Dr Nicole is teaching us,to understand how to deal with
these sort of wounds.
So I'm wondering how you seethat and if you see it the same
(39:56):
way I do.
And then I just want to hearyou know.
Just as final thoughts, wherewould you, you know, other than
getting your book and gettingmore into your work?
Where else should people go andhow should they begin this work
if it's really resonating?
Speaker 2 (40:09):
This is so good.
The backpack is one of myfavorite metaphors, and so I'm
like I'm feeling so connected toyour messaging.
(40:29):
This is great, and what I wouldencourage for this image of the
backpack is that little Jade ifwe go back to that example is
that he's been carrying thatbackpack.
That's a metaphor of likehaving your 15-year-old self
telling you how to drive a car.
You're like, you don't need todo that anymore.
You're 15.
I have everything that you'velearned.
Plus, I'm an adult, so I'mgoing to drive like parts.
You can relax.
So what you can do and what Iteach you to do with the
three-minute hack, is that yougo back, we do the amygdala
(40:52):
deamplification and then, if hehas a backpack, is that you then
can take that backpack from himand then, with your adult
resources, you can carry andalchemize that backpack.
If that backpack is if I couldsay bullshit from other people
that never even belonged to you,you also have the chance to
(41:13):
send that back.
And so who were you before theworld told you who to be?
And so, auditing, what is itthat I'm carrying, and is this
for me, so that I can be topchef?
I cut my finger.
This was for me, or is thisjust nonsense from an abusive
partner or parents or teachersor whatever that really I
(41:37):
shouldn't be carrying?
So, for those who are listening,what I would say is next steps
is figure out how you can createintentional time to practice
noticing.
So this is called interoceptionand this is starting to create
a new relationship with the body, and so creating intentional
(41:59):
time and space where you justnotice your body.
Shower time is a great time forthat.
We all, hopefully, shower everyday, so while you're in the
shower, you're not going to haveyour phone or your iPad,
probably, and so when you get inthe shower, I want you to feel
the water hitting your head.
I want you to feel the waterpulling down your body, every
(42:22):
single skin cell.
I want you to feel, maybe, ifyou do a loofah or a brush, what
that feels like the soap, andthen even notice what's
happening in your body.
I feel hot, my tummy feels alittle nervous, just notice it
and then, when you end theshower, you end that activity
with an environmental shift.
And so, for those who arelistening, this is free.
(42:43):
You don't have to sign up foranything.
You do showering anyway.
So just intentionally shower,notice the body and then come
and hang out with me and Dr Jadeon Instagram.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Yeah, I love this so much.
Such a powerful way to sort ofsum this up, and I just want to
say you're such an amazingteacher.
Thank you so much for your time.
So for those of you who wantmore of Dr Nicole's work, where
can they find you?
Where do you hang out?
I know you hang out a lot onInstagram, your website, your
book.
Where else can they get moreinformation to fill in the gaps?
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Those are my places I also have.
I don't see patients anymore,but I do have an online
membership.
So for those who are like, howcan I learn from Dr Cain?
I do tons and tons of teaching,and so it's called the Holistic
Wellness Collective.
You can get info about that onmy Instagram and my website, Dr
Nicole Cain.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Yeah, so if you go to DrNicoleCaincom and follow, if
you follow Dr Nicole onInstagram, she does a lot of
free teaching, so you'll get alot there.
So, nicole, do me a favor, hangon the lines.
Just kind of want to make sureeverything uploads.
And for all of you I know youabsolutely just loved Nicole,
like I do.
You're such an amazing teacher.
(43:58):
Thank you so much for your timeand for all of you.
We will see you at the nextshow.
Welcome to the show everybody.
My name is Dr Jade Tita.
This is the Next Level HumanPodcast and I have a guest that
I've been hearing about for awhile.
We are in the same field.
We have not yet met, so this isour first time connecting in
person.
This is Dr Nicole Kane.
She has a new book out calledPanic Proof came out in October,
and she is someone who you know.
(00:21):
It's interesting when you get inthis podcasting space you
oftentimes get inundated with aton of people saying, hey, I
have this great person, wouldyou like them on your show?
And so I got this from Nicole'speople and I was like I've
heard of her and sort of seenher around on social media.
I already knew I was a fan andI was like, absolutely, I want
her to come on.
(00:42):
And I'll tell you, nicole, as Iset this up for the listener
part of what I forget where Iwas exposed to you, but I think
I've seen your clips on socialmedia.
You do a lot with education andjust are an amazing educator.
And I thought to myself youknow, here's a naturopathic
doctor like myself who has alsospent an awful lot of time in
(01:03):
the personal development spaceand mindset space, and I wanted
to talk to you about thatbecause I don't oftentimes get
to talk to other practitionerslike you and I who have moved in
this direction.
Now, of course, I know that youspend an awful lot of time
educating people on healthylifestyle and all those things,
so we can delve into that aswell.
But honestly, selfishly, I wasreally just wanting to talk to
(01:24):
you about how you got into moreof the mindset space and helping
people heal the mental stuff,and so I was just really excited
to have a chat with you.
So thank you for taking thetime to sit down with me.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I'm so excited to be here.
I have like a million ideas anddirections we could go that are
going to be juicy andfascinating and, I think,
valuable for hopefully,everybody listening Definitely
selfishly for me so this isgoing to be a great combo.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Yeah.
So here's the thing.
I thought maybe I would share afew thoughts that I could use
some help on.
Actually, One of the thingsthat I am delving deep into is
this aspect of you know.
People might call it trauma work, and from my perspective I
don't necessarily love this,because, yes, there's these
people with capital T traumasthat we think about.
(02:13):
You know, physical abuse, sexualabuse, you know, being in a war
zone, this kind of stuff, andof course that stuff is really
sort of traumatic and stressfuland difficult.
But there's other people whojust have, you know, maybe they
were bullied when they were ateenager, Maybe they had a
difficult mother or a difficultfather, Maybe they had sibling
things that came up, Maybe theywent through some financial
(02:34):
stuff, a health scare, you nameit.
They're not necessarily capitalT traumas, but they seem to have
negative impact in thephysiology as well.
And the other thing I want tojust add to that is that it
seems to me also that somepeople with these quote capital
T traumas don't really seethemselves that way.
They don't really seethemselves as traumatized,
(02:56):
whereas other individuals withthese sort of let's call them
lower T traumas do.
And so I'm really interested inthis aspect of how let's just
call them life difficulties.
These difficult life events getstuck on us in a sense, and
certainly you've written anawful lot about some of the
emotions that come along withthis, like anxiety, but I'm
(03:18):
really just interested inhearing you, as another
practitioner, sort of give yourtake on what actually is going
on here, and why do these sortof difficult life events seem to
follow us around and how do wedeal with them?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I heard a quote recently and it was your brain
doesn't care about yourwell-being, about your
well-being, it cares about yoursafety.
And all of us are here, we'reall living because we had
ancestors whose brains, bodies,nervous systems and other
adaptive systems were poised tosuccessfully protect them.
(03:58):
And so in our modern era wehave these caveman brains.
And then we're putting thatsurvival instinct in our modern
era and it can feel very muchlike I'm at war against my body,
or my body is broken or there'ssomething wrong with me.
And why do I feel?
Why do I get hot flashes allthe time?
(04:20):
Or why do I have ADHD and Ican't focus, or why is my my
sleep a mess, or why is mythyroid out of balance?
And what you were just sayingright there in that moment, I
think, hits the nail on the head, because what you're doing is
you're changing the paradigmfrom a more disease-based system
to we have all of thesesymptoms.
(04:41):
They're bad, let's make them goaway.
But rather you're looking inthe way that you frame the
question as all of theseexperiences that we have are
adaptations to what did or didnot happen to us, and I think
there's a really importantnuance in that is again.
My symptoms are theaccumulation, what did or did
(05:03):
not happen to me?
Those adaptations have gottenme where I am today, so I really
appreciate just even the waythat you entered that
conversation.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Yeah, I love that.
You know it's interesting.
This is kind of a new term tome, I think you'll get it but
this idea of neuroplasticsyndrome, which is 40% of
individuals who go to doctors,who get worked up for sort of
chronic complaints.
We now know that neuroplasticsyndrome is about 40% of these
individuals and, for those ofyou who've never heard that term
(05:33):
before, essentially what itmeans is that there is no
physical cause of these symptoms.
These people have been workedup, their livers have been
looked up, their thyroids havebeen studied, their
gastrointestinal system has beenstudied.
They can't find a physicalcause.
Yet they are having pain thatcauses them to double over in
their abdomen, they're havingchronic migraines, they're
(05:54):
having all these symptoms thatare troubling for them.
Starting to point to the factthat this is coming from the
brain and the brain'sinterpretation, perhaps, of just
what you were talking about,nicole, this idea that we go
through certain things and thebrain is looking at our safety
and it seems to want to hold onto particular things and then
(06:18):
draw our attention through,perhaps, signs and symptoms
where there is no actualphysical diagnosis.
And I thought that was prettyamazing, that up to 40 percent
and this is just people whowhere maybe this is caused by
the brain and how it is takinginto these difficult life events
perhaps.
But think about the other 60percent of conditions that they
(06:40):
may not be caused by this, butperhaps this is contributing to
the issue that they may not becaused by this, but perhaps this
is contributing to the issue.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
And then we get these kind of toss-in diagnoses like,
well, it's chronic fatigue ifyou're tired or you can't think
and focus, or it's fibromyalgiaif you have body pains, or it
must be irritable bowel syndromeif it's in your
gastrointestinal tract, and it'skind of those diagnoses or the
healthcare systems sort ofscratching their head and
trailblazers like next levelhuman podcast.
The work that you do here iswe're looking at what the
(07:15):
research is actually telling usis happening and when we look at
more of a whole person approach, instead of, like your, your
gut is inflamed, I'm going tosee a gastroenterologist and, oh
, by the way, I have necktension.
I'm going to go see anorthopedist and I have headaches
, I'm going to see a neurologistthat instead, if we look at how
(07:37):
the body as an entire systemadapts to adversity, stress,
trauma or even positivestressors, that that adaptation
exists systemically and we havebiofeedback loops that are
systemic, and so suddenly thistrauma-informed research is
opening the doors as to whatmight actually be going on at
(08:00):
the root.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, yeah.
So I, you know, what I want todo is I can tend to sort of want
to just jump in here and belike, Ooh, here's like check out
this study in this study, but Ireally wanted you on because I
wanted to get your sense.
One of the things I love aboutbeing in this podcast position
is talking to experts and goinglet me see how they frame this
up, cause you oftentimes, as youknow, you hear things in a
(08:22):
different way, you learn thingsin a different way, and so if
you were going to explain sortof your work, how you got there
and just where you would beginwith educating someone on all of
this, I wanted you to just, youknow, go ahead and start where
you sort of want to start toeducate us on this, this whole
thing, because I think it isstill incredibly new to most
(08:42):
people still incredibly new tomost people.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Where I start is that probably almost everything that
you've heard about anxiety is amyth.
Starting with, anxiety can't behealed, and that was a question
that I asked when I was reallyyoung.
I came into this world with alot of familial trauma,
epigenetic adversity, and thenmy childhood was really
difficult and stressful, andsome of these were big T events
(09:12):
and some of them were little Tevents.
Arguably most of it was justcomplex micro things that
happened, and it's sort of likelearning to ride a bike.
So every time you tip ever soslightly to the right, the brain
, the body, the nervous systemwill get that feedback, it will
adapt and you'll tip to the leftuntil eventually you can be
(09:33):
riding on gravel down in uphills.
You can be riding and I'm herein Arizona, south Mountain
mountain biking.
You can adapt to differentterrains, you can adapt to
different terrains.
And so the question is is whatif anxiety isn't a problem to be
solved?
What if it is my body and mymind's attempt at telling me
(09:54):
what the problem is, so that Ican resolve it?
And so then I started to lookat the science, I started to
look at neuroplasticity, Istarted to look at the
relationship betweenpsychoneuroimmunology the mind,
your immune system, the nervoussystem and how they all
interplay.
And a really great metaphor forthis is I live half the year in
(10:18):
Michigan.
It's very cold there in thewinter.
That's why I'm not there rightnow, when we're recording this,
in February, right, and as anadaptation, we put on a winter
coat and that coat protects us,it keeps us from getting
frostbite, it keeps us fromgetting too cold, and that's an
adaptation.
The cold is neither good norbad, it just is.
It's not necessarily a trauma,it's just a stressor and it can
(10:42):
become really, reallyproblematic for survival if we
don't adapt to it.
But we adapted.
So I put on a coat and then Imoved to Phoenix and those
adaptations that coat that wasprotective, that helped me
survive in one environment wouldhave been a real problem living
in Phoenix in the summer it'stoo hot, suddenly the coat
(11:04):
causes overheating.
So what happens is when adaptivemechanisms get stuck or they
get stuck in these feedbackloops and then they no longer
continue to shift and pivotbased on our circumstances.
And so the question that we canthen ask is if you're thinking
about this with your own storyor your clients, your patients'
(11:26):
stories is, if you look at theircurrent experience and you look
at it from a systemic approachwhich would be mind, body,
spirit, habits, behaviors, andyou look at all of that and you
allow them to pull that up withcuriosity and compassion, is you
(11:47):
can then start to almostreverse down the timeline.
It's like driving a trainbackwards towards where it came
from and trying to identifywhere did this come from?
What is this an adaptation to?
Because if we can go in andcorrect those adaptations, we
can unwind those adaptationsusing transpersonal work,
(12:10):
psychology, gut psychology work,whatever it is that's in your
zone of genius that that clientwould benefit from.
If we can get to the very rootof that, the early adaptive
mechanism, where that came from,then suddenly we get to ask
different questions.
Instead of asking, well, can weactually heal from anxiety,
(12:32):
which is yes, absolutely, we canstart asking well, what is my
human potential?
How can I go up to, as youteach, the next level?
If my body is in such a stateof fluency and resilience and
vitality and I'm able toactually take that coat on and
off within my sense of personalagency and power, what could
(12:53):
that actually look like for meif I leverage that to uplevel my
life.
So the whole question changes.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, I love this so much.
Let me give a little bit of myperspective so we can continue
with this journey.
I love this idea to me.
Going backwards in time right,if we take that train I love
these analogies you're using andwe go backwards to time and
let's say we see an event inJade's life.
I often talk about thistraumatic event.
(13:23):
That's not a capital T trauma,it's actually no one's fault, it
just occurred.
But I was left on a baseballfield for a couple hours in the
dark when I was a kid, justbecause my parents were had.
I had several siblings and theywere going in different
directions that logically, as anadult, we could all go.
Oh, we know what happened.
My mom got home, looked at mydad, said where's Jade?
He goes, well, I thought youwere getting Jade and they both
(13:52):
freak out and then run off andget me.
Meanwhile I'm the six-year-oldsitting in the dark at this
baseball field, nobody's fault.
But I then have this what Imight call misguided,
unconscious decision.
I call it mud, this mud thatforms in my brain because of
that traumatic experience that,through nobody's fault and just
through an accident of life, Isay life isn't safe in some way.
And then that follows me aroundin the way I trust people
perhaps, and you know what DrNicole's pointing to is that
(14:14):
sometimes this happens in lotsof little things occurring that
slowly tell this story.
That then seeps into yoursubconscious.
So it doesn't have to be thisbig all at one shot.
And here's the question that Iwant to ask you about, because I
know you that then seeps intoyour subconscious, so it doesn't
have to be this big all-at-oneshock.
And here's the question that Iwant to ask you about, because I
know you specialize in anxiety.
One of the things that strikesme as you said something really
(14:35):
interesting there about anxietybeing sort of almost like
something that is speaking toyou, perhaps a protective
mechanism, and I oftentimesthink that emotions seem to have
stories associated with them,right?
So, like depression seems tohave a story about trust and
hope, anxiety seems to have astory about being able to make a
choice or own a choice onceit's made.
(14:55):
Insecurity is a story aboutself-worth and belief in
yourself, and so I'm wonderingthen these things occur.
We go back in time to thistrain, we see this thing with
Jade, and then we follow forwardand say, oh, this anxiety
around whenever he's out ofcontrol, let's say, is connected
to these stories.
Is this how you're seeing thisand, if so, what else goes along
(15:20):
with this?
How does this seep into maybemood issues and physical issues
and everything else?
I just want to see how youunwind this.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
This is so good.
Thank you for sharing thisconcrete example, and to little
Jade, I'm so sorry that happened.
That must have been so scary.
So for him, you're very strongand you're very brave, and that
was probably hard.
So I see you, you I honor you.
Oh, that's hard as a littleperson.
(15:50):
So if, if, we unwind this andwe're going to do this
theoretically, because you and Ihaven't gotten to dive into the
mud, as you will, but let's,let's speak theoretically.
So in that moment, little jadeis sitting there and he's
sitting in the dark and theinsula of the brain, this part
(16:11):
of the brain that is associatedwith the thalamus and the
salience network.
It's scanning, it's noticingthe dirt of the baseball field,
it's noticing the quietness, ormaybe there are sounds around.
It's noticing the heart beatingin the body.
(16:53):
It's noticing, maybe even thetaste of fear in the mouth.
It, your audience knows, islargely the amygdala, with its
buddies, its associates, and itcan create a fear response.
So then little Jade is like ohmy goodness, I'm afraid I'm all
alone.
And that is paired with a lackof personal power and agency,
because in that moment you werea child.
You couldn't just call a Waymoor an Uber and rescue yourself.
You had to wait for someoneelse to come rescue you.
In that moment you were a child.
You couldn't just call a Waymoor an Uber and rescue yourself.
You had to wait for someoneelse to come rescue you in that
moment.
So now we have this, this, nowexperience has become scary.
(17:15):
We lose our agency.
So we don't stop here, thoughthe whole body is like, okay,
we're in danger, I've got you.
So now we have the amygdala andit's going to send on this
cascade that recruits your bodyto go into a fear response, and
so your hypothalamic, pituitaryadrenal axis is going to be
(17:35):
releasing stress hormone,cortisol.
You're going to releaseadrenaline and, as a result of
that, you're going to seechanges in the gut microbiome.
We see that the gut microbiomecan change very quickly from
moment to moment, based on whatyou eat, based on your
experiences.
That gut microbiome iscommunicating bidirectionally
(17:56):
with your brain via the vagusnerve and the enteric nervous
system, and everything isgetting memorized.
And so, now that experience isgetting stored in the body, we
have inflammation that can takeplace and a whole domino effect
of these feedback loops that aretaking place.
And now that state's gettingmemorized and the brain doesn't
(18:17):
care about your well-being.
Little Jade's brain is like wegot to get this whole body to
keep us safe.
Brain is like we got to getthis whole body to keep us safe.
So you're in this pattern.
This pattern gets memorized andnow going forward.
Anytime that there's somethingthat's reminiscent to that
pattern in your internal orexternal environment, this
(18:37):
memorized head-to-toe state canget activated.
So when we think about if we setthat aside for just a moment
and we think about somebody whogoes to their doctor and they're
like I'm losing weight, I'meating all the things, I can't
stop losing weight, I'm losingall my hair, my skin is really
dry and I'm really anxious, Ihave palpitations and I can't
(19:00):
sleep.
Doctor can say sounds likethyroid.
I can confirm that with a bloodtest.
And not only can I confirm thatwith a blood test.
We have medical treatments,surgery, radiation.
We have treatments that we canuse for that.
But then let's say that littleJade goes into the doctor and
(19:22):
he's like I'm getting colds andflus, I feel like my gut is a
mess.
I get gas and bloating, I getgut anxiety.
I feel nervous.
I just don't know why I havethese just anxious thoughts.
My brain is spinning.
I want to be a high performerbut I feel held back by this and
the doctor's like cognitivebehavioral therapy or an
(19:45):
antidepressant, maybe a PRNbenzo, but then you're still
going to have the systemicadaptation plus.
You're going to be feelingfrustrated that, no matter how
much you talk about it, that thebody doesn't care what you have
to say about it.
Or you're going to be on anantidepressant and you're going
to have all these symptoms.
Plus, you may feel a littlezombied out, lose your libido
(20:06):
and start gaining weight, and sothe conclusion that would be
drawn I think that we're doingsuch a good job now with the
trauma-informed research is thatwe can look back and say, oh,
this thing happened.
He may not even remember it, butthe body keeps the score and we
can start doing the work, thework to release that.
And then, when the body keepsthe score and we can start doing
the work to release that, andthen when the body's like, oh,
(20:30):
that's not relevant anymore,when we do the amygdala
deamplification which we couldtotally get into, when we do
that amygdala deamplification,when we decrease those
connections to all thoseassociative networks and then
start increasing the connectionsto the agency part of your
brain, that prefrontal cortex,then suddenly your symptoms get
better and you don't need thetalk therapy, you don't need the
(20:52):
antidepressants, you don't needthe omeprazole for your gut,
and now you can up-level.
So that's like one little kindof boop toe in.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Nicole, you're such an amazing teacher, I mean, that
was so well said that I reallythink the listeners are just
going to really be able tounderstand that and grasp that.
And I do want to get into thisidea of going in and dealing
with the amygdala.
And the interesting thing is,if we unpack a little bit of
what you said, right.
So there's this idea and pleasecorrect me if I get any of this
(21:24):
wrong, I just want to repeat itjust because I know it's maybe
complicated for some of thelisteners.
But so we have this sympatheticstate that we're in, right,
this fight or flight nervoussystem response, and the insula
is getting involved here.
It's surveilling.
We're having this amygdalaresponse, this fear response,
where then all of this is whatthe body does.
So it releases adrenaline andcortisol.
(21:45):
And what some of the researchsays when you have these huge
adrenaline and cortisol surges,they kind of get this neurology
sort of cemented in place.
And so I love this idea and Iwant to see what you think about
it.
It's like literally it seemsthat that little jade neurology
lives in adult jade, likethere's literally this cemented
neurology that represents littlescared Jade on the baseball
(22:06):
field.
That is cemented inside of mewhenever there is perhaps a
fight or flight response thatsomewhat resembles the chirping
of the crickets and the dirt,and that night that then
triggers me.
And what's interesting is so,if all of that is true, you
brought in something reallybeautiful, which is this idea of
agency.
So I like to think of now, ifwe can somehow and I think this
(22:30):
is where you're going to take usbut if we can somehow go back
into the sympathetic state butbe in a safe place and rewrite
the narrative, the mud that wetold ourselves then, the
misguided, unconscious decision.
Now we go in with an awarenessand revisit this perhaps in some
way, but we go in with safetymechanisms and resourcing.
(22:52):
We can and should be able tomaybe shut down this amygdala
response.
And am I getting this right?
And if I am, what are the toolsto do this?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
That brilliant.
That's so good, as you'resaying that there are a lot of
wonderful tools and the greatthing about this is that it can
be personalized for for you, andso there's a couple we can do
together, we can talk through,and then I teach all about this
in my book, and so people arelike like, oh, I want more.
(23:26):
What are the other ones?
It'll you can find it there.
One is I can teach us aboutamygdala deamplification, and
two, we can do the four partprocess.
And then number three is wecould do the three minute hack
and then so, let me, you canpick which one would make the
most sense, and I'll talk aboutwho might be ideal for each.
(23:49):
So for amygdala deamplification,that's really good for people
who have a single big event andit's really hard to get out of
that.
And it's like one thing youdon't have necessarily all these
other associative networkswhere it's like a whole ball of
cat yarn or maybe necklaces anda drawer, and you're like, ah,
(24:09):
you pull them all out, they'reall stuck together.
This amygdala deamplification,I see you working really well
for a big, big event like thisone that you just talked about
in the ball field.
That's a good one for this.
The second one, the threeminute hack, is really good if
there's inner child work and youwant to learn how to do inner
child work, if that resonateswith you.
(24:31):
And then the third one is morefor complex stress, complex
adversity, and that's goingthrough a four-point process and
so, based on Little Jade, whatdo you feel like would be most
helpful we can do together today?
Speaker 1 (24:46):
I mean I love all those, but let's just do the
amygdala deamplification so theycan see how this works.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yes, so amygdala deamplification is borrowed from
.
We stand on the shoulders ofgiants right, and so this is
borrowed from EMDR, which is eyemovement, desensitization and
reprocessing therapy.
This has been around since the1980s and it involves bilateral
stimulation, left and rightstimulation, either with the
(25:16):
eyes or hand buzzers thatbilaterally alternate.
It also borrows from internalfamily systems, and so if anyone
has seen Inside Out and we knowabout parts, it's borrowing
from that, and it's alsoborrowing from hypnosis and
calming of the body.
This is how we do it.
So step number one is thatyou're going to think about and
(25:38):
we'll use little Jade's example,but for those who are listening
, you can do this exercise withus.
So think about something thatyou want to maybe start to the
process of reprogramming.
So you get a little activatedwith this, you feel a little
stressed with this.
Maybe it's the Sunday scaries,or maybe it's when you have to
(25:58):
drive on the interstate, ormaybe it's when your phone calls
come in, like whatever it is.
So notice that, and what we'regoing to be doing together is
you're going to identifywhatever it is you're working on
.
We're going to talk aboutLittle Jade and the baseball
diamonds.
You're going to go back andyou're going to notice your
thoughts, your feelings and yoursensations.
So that will be the first part,and for those who are doing
(26:21):
this exercise, your eyes aregoing to be closed if you feel
safe.
The second part is we're goingto, we're activating those
memory networks.
We're going into it in step one, and then step two is we're
going to create connections tothe logical brain.
And so how do we activateexecutive control network?
How do we activate logicalbrain?
(26:42):
We see in the research thatthis is done with distraction,
with math, with spelling, withthings that require you to think
about it, and so when littleJade gets activated, that whole
memory network is concreted in,just like you said, and he
doesn't have access to adult,amazing, healer, entrepreneurial
(27:06):
, next level human.
He doesn't have access to that.
We're going to create thataccess and this could be a very
quick exercise.
So during this second half Iknow this is a lot of lead up,
but it'll make sense.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
No, this is wonderful information.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Good, good, good, good.
So during the part where we'regoing to be activating
prefrontal cortex, activatingyour logical agency part of your
brain, is you're going to beactivating prefrontal cortex,
activating your logical agencypart of your brain, is you're
going to be using somatic-basedtreatment because the body keeps
the score.
Thank you, bessel van der Kolk.
The best right.
So I borrowed this fromHavening, and Havening is
(27:40):
amygdala de-amplification, whereyou use touch, and so in
Havening there are differentplaces.
One is you could put your palmstogether and then you're going
to just alternate them back andforth, kind of like you're
dusting your palms off and so,for those who are just listening
to the audio file, you're justgoing to imagine palms up, dust
(28:01):
to the left, dust to the right.
The second one you can do isyou can imagine you cross your
arms and you dust down your armsand you just touch.
I like this one because you'recrossing the midline.
The third one I have bangs, soI don't like this one.
My hair looks beautiful and Idon't want to touch it.
But if you don't mind, ifyou're not vain, then they think
(28:26):
the most effective one is youstroke from your forehead down
the sides of your face.
Okay, so let's do this together.
We'll make this a really minione for the sake of time,
because I know people havethings to do, but we'll just go
through the motions and you andI'll do this together.
We'll spend like three minutes,is that okay?
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Perfect, yeah, let's go.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
You and I'll do this together.
We'll spend like three minutes,is that okay?
Perfect, yeah, let's go.
All right.
All right.
So if you feel comfy, I wouldlove for you to close your eyes
and bring yourself back to thatnight on the ball diamond and
you might start to settle intothe sounds that you heard around
you the crickets.
You might notice the sensationsof the dirt, maybe the
(29:05):
temperature that it was as itbecame darker.
Maybe there's a smell that youcan remember, the smell of being
outside in grass and dirt.
And then I want you to noticewhat's coming up in your body,
where you feel that, theemotions that are coming up, and
we're going to hold on to that.
Yeah, what do you feel?
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Yeah, I feel my heart's picking up, queasiness
in my stomach, just a generalfeeling of unease.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Let's hold on to that for about 10 seconds.
We don't have to change it,you're just going to notice it.
And then, with your eyescontinuing to be closed, I want
you to start the havening.
With your eyes continuing to beclosed, I want you to start the
havening, if you don't mind.
Fingers to palms, kind of likeyou're getting ready for a nice
meal.
And then, dr Jade, can youplease spell your first and last
(29:57):
name for me?
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Yeah, it's J-A-D-E.
And then can you countbackwards from 40 by twos 20, 18
(30:23):
, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 0.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
And then can you name as many US basketball teams
that you can think of.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Seattle Supersonics.
Are they still around Dallas,mavericks?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
LA Lakers Phoenix Suns.
I think that's your group.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
And the Knicks, the Nets, the Bulls, the Celtics.
That's all I can think of.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
That's all I could think of too.
That was really good.
And then can you spell yourfirst and last name backwards
for me A and then we're going togo back into that memory.
You're going to go back tobeing on that baseball diamond,
(31:19):
knowing that you're alone.
Notice what's different.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Yeah, it's interesting it's lost some
charge and it's moved from mysolar plexus kind of up into my
heart area.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
So this is where we would repeat that, and ideally
we would keep dipping in anddipping out until it's
completely gone, but the movingis really good, and so what I'd
like to actually have you do iswe're going to container this
just because we're not going tobe getting to finish all of it,
(31:54):
and so I want you to imaginethat it's 2025 and your adult,
doctor, amazing, influencer selfthat you have next to your feet
a container can be made of anymaterial, any size, and what I
want to have you do is take thismemory and I want you to
(32:19):
surround it with golden light.
You might even feel inclined tobreathe that golden light into
your body and then, with theexhales, breathe that memory,
that image, into the container,maybe bring your mindful
awareness to your heart and yourgut, breathe in that golden
(32:40):
light if you wish, and thenbreathe out into the container
any tension or stress, and thisis to not get rid of this memory
or this image, but to put itsomewhere for safekeeping.
You can come back and keepdoing the work whenever you wish
, but now you get to rest andwhen you feel complete, you can
(33:04):
put the lid on the container andyou can open your eyes.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Yeah, that's super powerful.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
I would love to have gone through that whole cycle
with you, yeah, but I think thatjust gives people an amazing
understanding of the process.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yes, thank you for doing that.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Yeah, and thank you for doing that for me, and isn't
it interesting just for you,the listener, to know?
So I have done work on thisparticular memory and other
memories, but not in thisspecific way, the way Nicole
does it, and I definitely feltwas able to kind of get to a
really interesting place.
A couple interesting thingscome up.
Even before you had said aboutyou know, you're this amazing,
(33:44):
you know, influencer and teacher, I could see how that
experience was something thatwas useful for me in, you know,
kind of being a teacher, and soit's really interesting that
sometimes that happens and I seethat with my clients and
patients as well.
Sometimes they'll make thatintegration and that jump from.
Oh, this was also instructiveand I have been using this
(34:06):
perhaps as a way of learning,teaching and loving in life and
so that integration process ofthat story you said something
really interesting about notnecessarily getting rid of it,
but you know sort of this ideathat you get to learn from it in
some way.
At least that's what happenedinside of me, that I wanted
everyone to kind of hear,because I see this happen often
when I'm working with people inthis way, that they will make
(34:27):
these connections, that sort ofclear things, and I don't know
if you see that as well often.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I have the biggest smile on my face because I feel
like you just tied thisbeautiful bow around the message
that my heart is to get acrossin this conversation, as we
started in the beginning andwe're debunking the myth that
you can't solve anxiety andwe're showing us how anxiety is
an adaptation to what did or didnot happen to you.
(34:54):
And then we moved on and weasked the question of well, how
can I up level?
What's next?
And so what you just describedis that you alchemized, or
you're in the process ofalchemizing, an experience that
not only brings you to a neutralbaseline of being anxiety free,
but you're able to use thatexperience, alchemize that
(35:17):
experience to then you knowHahnemann teaches about this to
show up in such a way thatyou're able to use your mind and
your body for the purposes thatyou were brought here on this
earth to do, to be and toilluminate in such a way that it
obliges wonder from those whoare looking on.
And so people see you in yourbright, golden light and they're
(35:41):
like where do I get me some ofthat?
Speaker 1 (35:43):
And that comes from doing this work, and isn't it
interesting?
Yeah, if I can, if I couldpiggyback off of that the next
level, human work.
This is why I think I wasreally excited to connect with
you, because it seems like wehave the same message.
From my perspective, it seemsto me that hidden in this, the
suffering and the pain and thehurt that we experience, that
hidden in that, in some way,it's pointing us towards finding
(36:06):
an aspect of ourselves thatserves our growth and the
enrichment of others and theevolution of the world, so
almost that this suffering ismeant to be a source of meaning
and this, this pain, is meant tobe a path to purpose and this
hurt is meant to be a way tohelp, but not if we can't find a
way to process it.
I oftentimes think that when wecut our finger, you know we feel
(36:26):
the finger getting cut, whichis what makes us pay attention
to it and then deal with it.
And, of course, then the healingprocess is not just about, you
know, changing the bandages andputting the antibiotic ointment
on the finger.
It's really about knowing okay,I cut my finger, so next time
I'm in the kitchen cuttingvegetables, I will be careful in
some way, and perhaps even Iwill learn to cut vegetables and
(36:48):
go out on YouTube and findvideos to help me, and maybe
even as a result of that, I endup becoming an amazing cook and
a chef, you know, or something.
And to me it seems as if thisis the work that you and I have
perhaps stumbled across, in thisidea that, yes, our body knows
how to heal and we knowintuitively how to deal with
physical pain and physicalinjuries, but no one has ever
(37:09):
taught us in the way that DrNicole just did on how to deal
with when we cut ourmetaphorical, emotional thumb.
We've never actually learnedhow to feel, deal and heal from
that stuff, and so this is why Ithink this works so powerful.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I love how you said feel, deal and heal, because one
of the number one things that Isee happening out, especially
in the anxiety world, butarguably a lot of our symptoms
is what can we do to make it goaway?
A lot of people ask me I get somany DMs, what supplement can I
take to stop panic?
And, yeah, I can give youalternatives to benzos.
(37:47):
I can give you theanine andkava and passiflora, and those
have a place.
But even better is what youjust talked about is is figuring
out what, how, what is thepurpose of this and what needs
healing.
And then how can I leveragethat to be a next level human.
This is such a good podcastnames.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yeah, I love it so much and I'll say one more thing
and get your final thoughts onthis, then we can begin wrapping
up.
But you know, one of the thingsI think about with this pain
and I want to see how you relateto this you know, there's, it
seems that to me, that we canhave if we don't feel, deal and
heal in the way that you'vedescribed and we don't have
these mechanisms and methods andpeople to go to, like you and
(38:29):
myself, that in a sense, ashumans, I feel like I liken it
to like carrying a backpack.
So you're carrying thisbackpack full of pain.
Let's imagine it's filled upwith bricks, and we can play the
villain in a sense, and many ofus will, and we can have
compassion here because hurtpeople don't know necessarily
how to deal with their hurt andso oftentimes they will
inadvertently take bricks fromthe backpack and throw them at
(38:51):
other people because they don'tknow what else to do with them,
and so that I would call thevillain state.
And then there's, of course,the victim state, where we
become so used to and accustomedto the heaviness of that
backpack that we over-identifywith the bricks in a sense.
And you know, woe is me, and weblame and complain.
Of course I don't want anyone tohear me wrong, because I think
(39:11):
it is required for healing.
We must at some point, we mustbe a victim to heal, but we
can't get stuck there.
And so I think the final sortof stage is the victor stage
which you're pointing us toward,which is to understand that
these bricks, this pain, liveswith us.
We do have to carry it.
We can't ever take the backpackoff, but we can see these
bricks as building blocks forour own personal growth and to
(39:33):
enrich others and evolve theworld, so we can use them to
build something beautiful forourselves and other people.
And perhaps that's the wholepoint of suffering in the first
place.
But we can't do it unless wehave techniques and tools, like
what Dr Nicole is teaching us,to understand how to deal with
these sort of wounds.
So I'm wondering how you seethat and if you see it the same
(39:56):
way I do.
And then I just want to hearyou know.
Just as final thoughts, wherewould you, you know, other than
getting your book and gettingmore into your work?
Where else should people go andhow should they begin this work
if it's really resonating?
Speaker 2 (40:09):
This is so good.
The backpack is one of myfavorite metaphors, and so I'm
like I'm feeling so connected toyour messaging.
(40:29):
This is great, and what I wouldencourage for this image of the
backpack is that little Jade ifwe go back to that example is
that he's been carrying thatbackpack.
That's a metaphor of likehaving your 15-year-old self
telling you how to drive a car.
You're like, you don't need todo that anymore.
You're 15.
I have everything that you'velearned.
Plus, I'm an adult, so I'mgoing to drive like parts.
You can relax.
So what you can do and what Iteach you to do with the
three-minute hack, is that yougo back, we do the amygdala
(40:52):
deamplification and then, if hehas a backpack, is that you then
can take that backpack from himand then, with your adult
resources, you can carry andalchemize that backpack.
If that backpack is if I couldsay bullshit from other people
that never even belonged to you,you also have the chance to
(41:13):
send that back.
And so who were you before theworld told you who to be?
And so, auditing, what is itthat I'm carrying, and is this
for me, so that I can be topchef?
I cut my finger.
This was for me, or is thisjust nonsense from an abusive
partner or parents or teachersor whatever that really I
(41:37):
shouldn't be carrying?
So, for those who are listening,what I would say is next steps
is figure out how you can createintentional time to practice
noticing.
So this is called interoceptionand this is starting to create
a new relationship with the body, and so creating intentional
(41:59):
time and space where you justnotice your body.
Shower time is a great time forthat.
We all, hopefully, shower everyday, so while you're in the
shower, you're not going to haveyour phone or your iPad,
probably, and so when you get inthe shower, I want you to feel
the water hitting your head.
I want you to feel the waterpulling down your body, every
(42:22):
single skin cell.
I want you to feel, maybe, ifyou do a loofah or a brush, what
that feels like the soap, andthen even notice what's
happening in your body.
I feel hot, my tummy feels alittle nervous, just notice it
and then, when you end theshower, you end that activity
with an environmental shift.
And so, for those who arelistening, this is free.
(42:43):
You don't have to sign up foranything.
You do showering anyway.
So just intentionally shower,notice the body and then come
and hang out with me and Dr Jadeon Instagram.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Yeah, I love this so much.
Such a powerful way to sort ofsum this up, and I just want to
say you're such an amazingteacher.
Thank you so much for your time.
So for those of you who wantmore of Dr Nicole's work, where
can they find you?
Where do you hang out?
I know you hang out a lot onInstagram, your website, your
book.
Where else can they get moreinformation to fill in the gaps?
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Those are my places I also have.
I don't see patients anymore,but I do have an online
membership.
So for those who are like, howcan I learn from Dr Cain?
I do tons and tons of teaching,and so it's called the Holistic
Wellness Collective.
You can get info about that onmy Instagram and my website, Dr
Nicole Cain.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Yeah, so if you go to DrNicoleCaincom and follow, if
you follow Dr Nicole onInstagram, she does a lot of
free teaching, so you'll get alot there.
So, nicole, do me a favor, hangon the lines.
Just kind of want to make sureeverything uploads.
And for all of you I know youabsolutely just loved Nicole,
like I do.
You're such an amazing teacher.
(43:58):
Thank you so much for your timeand for all of you.
We will see you at the nextshow.
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