September 20, 2024 • 66 mins
In this conversation, Jade Teta and Danny Coleman discuss the qualities that make certain individuals compelling and attractive to others. They explore the idea that as humans, we are an experience, and our energy, authenticity, and ability to create a safe and non-judgmental space for others play a significant role in how people perceive and connect with us. They emphasize the importance of compassion, empathy, and owning our unique stories as key factors in cultivating positive relationships and positively impacting others. The conversation also touches on the concepts of self-deprecation, authenticity, and the power of elevating others' status. The conversation explores the importance of self-awareness and emotional regulation in cultivating authenticity and effective leadership. It emphasizes the need to understand and attach meaning to emotions, rather than suppressing or overexpressing them. The concept of emotional alchemy is introduced, highlighting the ability to process and digest emotions in appropriate ways. The discussion also touches on the significance of perception and ownership in personal growth and development. The hosts discuss the need to see oneself and others in a way that aligns with their best selves, while also acknowledging the importance of recognizing and integrating past experiences.
keywords
human experience, energy, authenticity, compassion, empathy, non-judgment, unique stories, self-deprecation, status, self-awareness, emotional regulation, authenticity, leadership, perception, ownership, emotional alchemy, personal growth, development
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and the Power of the Human Experience
03:45 The Role of Compassion and Empathy
08:04 The Importance of Authenticity
14:10 Owning Our Unique Stories
24:12 Lowering Status and Elevating Others
27:05 The Importance of Authenticity and Self-Awareness
29:33 Perception and Ownership in Personal Growth
33:37 Emotional Regulation and Trust in Relationships
36:06 The Role of Emotional Regulation in Effective Leadership
45:46 Recognizing and Integrating Past Experiences for Authenticity
54:49 The Power of Emotional Integrity and Trust in Relationships
Connect with Danny Coleman
IG= @itsdannycoleman and @takecareradiopodcast
www.takecarecoaching.com
Looking for a Next Level Human Coach? Get on the waitlist and get access to the brand-new science of quantum metabolism and identity restructuring with Dr Jade and the team.
http://nextlevelhuman.com/human-coaching
Want to become a Next Level Human Coach? Get on the waitlist. Go to: http://www.nextlevelhuman.com/human-coach
Connect with Next Level Human
Website: www.nextlevelhuman.com
support@nextlevelhuman.com
Connect with Dr. Jade Teta
Website: www.jadeteta.com
Instagram: @jadeteta
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's going on everybody?
Welcome to the Next Level Humanpodcast.
I am your host and I'm actuallyhere today with my co-author,
danny Coleman.
Danny is a master level coachin the personal development
space.
He is also a premier expert inleadership, doing corporate
trainings in that world.
We actually wrote a booktogether this book right here
(00:23):
called Tribe, which is one of myfavorite books that I've
written, and we're actuallygoing to talk a little bit about
this book in a sense.
But what I want to do is getDanny on, have a conversation,
and one of the things we werejust talking about before we
came on is what should we cover?
And one of the interestingthings about Danny I think this
(00:47):
about him he kind of sees methis way.
Of course, neither one of uswill own this, but it's funny
because he sees me this way andI see him this way is that we're
each people who we go to forhelp.
So usually there's not manypeople in my life who I really
want to talk to or I will openup to.
When I'm dealing with stuff, Iusually am the person that
(01:09):
people come to for help, butDanny is one of the few that I
go to and Danny feels the sameabout me and we're talking about
this idea is why is thatcertain people actually feel
compelled to be around otherpeople?
We talked about it in this book, danny, if you remember in the
beginning that when I was a kid,I used to be fascinated by why
(01:32):
were some of my teachers inelementary school really
well-liked, why some weren't,why some of my classmates were
picked on, why some weren't.
What was it?
It was like this energeticthing that I couldn't quite put
my finger on and that followedme into adulthood.
And it's really interesting,right?
Because now it's the careerthat you and I have is really
trying to understand thedynamics of individuals.
(01:55):
And so I'll just start us outwith the statement that you made
.
There's this idea that when yourun into somebody or you meet
somebody or you have a friend,that we're each unique and
individual, and this will be myfirst sort of question to you,
danny, or statement to see whereyou want to go with this.
We're all individuals and youmight say well, what is it about
(02:15):
, jade or Danny or me, thatmakes me unique?
And, you know, makes peopleattracted to me or not attracted
to me, makes people feel goodaround me or not good around me
makes people want to come to mefor advice or go to someone else
.
And I think, really it's threethings, and I want to see what
you think about this, dan.
I think it's the energy we bringright, like there's an energy
that when someone walks into aroom, you feel it right, and we
(02:40):
humans don't oftentimes thinkabout this, but even if you're
in a room, when someone comes in, even if they say nothing, it
changes the energy of the roomif you're paying attention.
So we each come with aparticular energy, right.
We also, as we begin to engageand people talk to us, and the
way we animate and just the waywe move about, we are a
(03:03):
particular experience as well.
Right, we create an experiencein the room.
So it's not just our energy,but it starts to become a full
experience.
And then, of course, we havethe ability to set a particular
example as well.
We can be inspiring and we caninfluence, and so I think it
comes down to this sort ofthere's a particular energetic,
there's a particular sort ofexperience that we bring.
(03:24):
And then there's this sort ofexample that we set, and I want
to unpack this with you and getyour thoughts around why is this
and how do we cultivate this ina positive way, perhaps to be
more effective in our personalrelationships and also
positively impact people.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, I love this.
This is your phrase and this isabout to be a hostile takeover.
Man, I'm about to get Jade onmy podcast.
Right now, we're going to do aswap.
Welcome to Take Care Radioeveryone.
This is a hostile takeover, butI love this phrase that you
have you say as human beings, weare an experience, and that, to
(04:05):
me, captures everything youwere just talking about.
It encapsulates the energy, itencapsulates the example, it
encapsulates everything that wesay and everything we emote.
It reminds me of that.
Maya Angelou quote Maya AngelouWinston-Salem native.
Shout out Winston-Salem as youare.
Yeah, sort of Winston-Salemnative.
Shout out Winston-Salem as youare.
(04:26):
Yeah, sort of Winston-Salemnative right, were you born
there?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
No, you're born in New York.
Definitely grew up there.
Definitely grew up there.
I grew up in Winston, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah, I knew that.
Maya Angelou that quote peoplewill forget what you said, they
will forget what you did, butthey will never forget how you
made them feel.
And that quote, I think it's aguiding quote in a lot of my
work.
I work with a lot of leadersand I teach this concept called
emotional contagion.
You know I love my psychologybooks, man, and one of my
favorite concepts I've ever comeacross is they're able to
(04:52):
measure this.
They're able to measure howcontagious our energy is, how
contagious our emotion is.
There's this thing called mirrorneurons and I know you're
familiar, Jade, but just for theaudience, these mirror neurons,
they can actually see theseareas of the brain firing off
when somebody does something.
For example, if I yawn, thesame centers in your brain to
get you to yawn.
(05:12):
That's why yawning is socontagious, or laughter is so
contagious.
A lot of these things there'ssomething in like this is like
the 15th century.
Have you heard of this dude InFrance, this lady?
I don't know what was wrongwith her.
She starts just dancing in themiddle of the street.
Oh, I've heard about this yet,yeah, for like an hour just
dancing, and then all of asudden another guy starts
dancing.
(05:33):
This is a true thing, this is atrue phenomenon.
This is how they alwaysdescribe neurons and things like
that.
Then all of a sudden, theentire town square is dancing
for hours and hours and hours,and it's crazy to me that that
is how contagious we are and howconnected we are as human
beings.
So I always love this phrasethat you have is that you are an
(05:55):
experience, and we work with alot of professionals who coach
other people, who lead otherpeople, and it's so much more
potent when we're in thatposition of authority too.
So if I'm a leader, my emotionsare going to be 10x more
contagious just because of thedynamic there, or romantic
relationships is going to be alot more contagious than to a
stranger.
(06:15):
So the closer you get, the morethere's a dynamic, there's more
dynamic of power, the moreinfluential, the more contagious
you're going to be.
So I always kind of joke whenI'm training these like leaders,
managers, I go leaders don'tget the luxury of having a bad
day, you just don't.
And that doesn't mean I saythat tongue in cheek, it doesn't
mean you can't make up for it.
It doesn't mean you can'tapologize.
It doesn't mean you can't be ina bad mood every once in a
(06:37):
while.
But on some level as a leaderor if you just want, just for
self-development you want to bea better experience for other
people.
You do have to be a little bitbetter at emotional regulation.
You do have to be a little bitmore energetic and bring the
energy into the room.
I'm all over the place right now, j.
It's reminding me of when youused to train metabolic effect
classes back in the day and youused to teach on this.
(06:58):
Remember you used to teach as apersonal trainer, as a group
instructor.
The number one thing is youhave to bring energy, you have
to project, you have to be big,you have to just demonstrate
authority, because that's howyou influence and move people,
and that was one of the mostimpactful things that stuck with
me.
Now that I teach courses, nowthat I do these workshops, I got
to show up with some energy andbring it, because it's that
(07:20):
contagious.
So that's sort of setting thestage on my side of what I want
to talk about as well.
We contagious, so that's sortof setting the stage on my side
of what I wanted to talk aboutas well.
We're saying the same thinghere, but you, jade I brought
this up because it's funny itfeels like everyone in our life.
We share a lot of the samecircle and everybody in our life
comes to you for help, man.
They're like I'm having a badday, I'm going to call Jade I
joked before we got on.
When I'm having a bad day, Ithink about calling you, but
(07:41):
then I'm having a bad day, Ithink about calling you, but
then I'm like nah, this dude'salready talked to coach 10
people today.
So when it comes to that's sortof what I want to break down in
this podcast, what are theelements of this?
So if we establish, yes, you'rean experience, and your
emotions and your state isreally contagious, how do you
change that state and how do youjust become a more positive
experience?
I would love your thoughts on,yeah, the how, how more positive
(08:03):
experience.
I would love your thoughts on,yeah, the how.
How do we sort of create that?
What if I'm not that Jay?
What if I'm boring?
Or what if people don't reallygravitate towards me, et cetera?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, well, you know, that is why I want to have this
conversation with you as well,because you and I both read
psychology research all the time, and so I'm going to give my
answer and then, of course, Iwant to hear yours as well.
I'm not exactly sure, to behonest, right Like I don't have
like a definitive answer on this, but I have, you know, an
informed, a little bit ofinformed education from just
(08:32):
research.
You know stuff that you and Iknow research on charisma and
research on emotions and otherthings like that.
It also is guesswork, just likeone of the most popular books
that was ever written, like howto Win Friends and Influence
People, that wasn't based onresearch, it was just based on
observation, and so, as we'rehaving this discussion, I'll try
(08:55):
to be as evidence-based as Ican, but I'm not so sure this
lends itself well to that.
Also, I do want to say thisthat statement we are an
experience.
I got that from my friend, roxySafai.
I was interviewing her once andshe said that and it really
stuck with me where she was likeI just see myself that wherever
(09:18):
I go, I can create a particularexperience with the way that I
show up, and so she said that Ichoose to cultivate the
experience that I bring and tobring that experience with
intention.
And then all we're saying nowis saying, well, it's not just
your experience, but it's theexample you set and the energy
(09:38):
you bring.
All of that sort of goes intothat.
And I'll say a couple thingshere that I think what makes the
difference.
Well, first of all, I think andI know many people don't
necessarily share this Forexample, there are many
prominent psychologists.
The one I'm thinking aboutright now is Jordan Peterson,
who I once heard say that hedoesn't think compassion should
(10:02):
be high up on someone's valuehierarchy, or that it wasn't on
his.
And I remember thinking tomyself that blows my mind
because, from my perspective,the people that I think we all
sort of gravitate towards andlove are people who are very
compassionate in the way thatthey see us.
(10:23):
In other words, we don't feeljudged.
So when we don't feel judged,these are people that we want to
go and sit with.
Anytime we feel judged, we willmove away from that and or not
sort of open up to sharinganything.
So I feel like one of thethings is people who don't have
(10:46):
judgment for others, and I triedmy best to do that.
As a matter of fact, I kind ofwas lucky because I have parents
my mother and my father who areincredibly nonjudgmental with
individuals.
So I have two rules that I thinkencapsulate this idea of
compassion and non-judgment, andthat, to me, is number one the
human rule right, whichessentially means that, no
(11:08):
matter what you say to me, Icome at this from a place that
go, all of us humans aredysfunctional.
None of us are gurus.
There's no such thing as a guruin my mind.
If you're a guru and there'syou probably wouldn't need to be
on in human school to beginwith with, because you'd have
everything figured out.
So to me, I go we're all humansand as humans, we all suffer
and we all have dysfunctions.
(11:29):
None of us knows everything.
All of us have something thatwe can offer.
So the first thing is seeingpeople as humans and just being
like look, you're not alone inthis, you're only human.
Something happens when you saysomething to someone.
You're only human.
Something happens when you saysomething to someone.
Let's be like look, you're onlyhuman.
You don't always say it thatway, but you go, you know what?
I have friends that have gonethrough this.
(11:51):
I mean, I see what's happened,it's only normal.
You're not crazy, man, likeyou're not crazy for feeling
this way, right?
That first thing is part of it,right, because and by the way it
establishes over time, when youjust go, I trust that whatever
I show up and tell this person,they're not going to come at me
and judge me.
In a way they're not judging,they're simply just going.
This is a human who's goingthrough a tough time.
(12:13):
And then there's compassion ontop of that, which is sort of
the rule of empathy or the ruleof compassion, which essentially
goes I don't necessarily havean experience, this but I can't
imagine what it must be like foryou, and I can't because, even
if I've experienced the exactsame thing, I don't exactly know
how it's going to be for Danny.
(12:35):
So for me, I think these arethe starting points, right.
And then the final thing I'llsay, and I want to just get your
sense on all three of thesecomponents, this idea of the
human role and this idea of, youknow, sort of compassion.
And the next thing is I thinkit's authenticity.
You know, because I think youknow people pick up on the
(12:55):
energy of inauthenticity, right,like, for example, you say
we're an experience and anexample and an energetic sort of
thing.
You know we bring an energeticexperience and example to the
world.
But if it's an inauthenticenergetic experience and example
for the world, for whateverreason, we humans sniff that out
(13:16):
.
We sniff it out like a dogsniffing out a bone, like we see
it from a mile away, and it isvery off-putting.
Now I don't know what this is, Ijust know I do think it's got
to truly be authentic.
It can't be this thing whereit's like, oh, you're only human
and oh, I can't imagine, andit's not authentic at all.
(13:37):
It has to be sort of heartfelt,and there is some interesting
research out of the Heart MathInstitute that shows that we do
so.
The electromagnetic fields ofthe hearts of individuals can't
do overlap, so theelectromagnetic fields of the
hearts of individuals can't dooverlap, they extend out of the
body and they overlap.
So is it possible that we areactually picking up on that
(13:58):
authentic, heartfelt emotionwhen we're talking to people?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So these would be the places that I would start, and
I'm really interesting to knowhow you see this yeah, I mean,
obviously I come from the nextlevel human school with jay tita
, so there's a lot of overlaphere.
You know, it's funny.
The one thing I wrote downbefore you said I was like, oh,
I'm gonna, I'm gonna add to thisand it's gonna be authenticity,
because I, authenticity is thethird key piece, one because,
(14:25):
you're right, people can sniffout when you're being insecure,
insincere and probably insecure,but when you're being insincere
, for sure they can sniff thatout.
I also think there's an elementof polarization.
When you're authentic, whenyou're authentic, you inherently
are going to be polarizing.
You're inherently going to bedifferent.
(14:45):
You're inherently going to beinteresting to people because
you're not just the same.
What do you say?
Ball games, ball games andburgers.
Ball games, beers and burgerslike that's pretty, that's a
pretty normal cultural levelthing, like and I, by the way,
nothing wrong with that, I loveball games, I love burgers I
love beers I love, I love thetriple threat, but I think if
(15:07):
you can add something that isthat is authentic, authentically
you, on top of that, you canstill.
You can still kind of stand outand I just think that's
interesting to people.
So I actually don't have muchto add.
I I think a lot of my take carelisteners they joke at me
because you get a shout out onevery podcast.
So I use a lot of your material, use a lot of your material,
use a lot of your frameworks.
(15:27):
Obviously, man, we spent somuch time together that it comes
out.
But I do think the authenticitypiece is not just about being
sincere.
It's actually just makes youmore compelling of an experience
too.
Right, if you're just a littlebit different.
We all have a very unique storyand maybe that's where we take
this discussion is the who weare story and how that's sort of
created and the power of that.
(15:48):
I just read Charles Duhigg'snew book.
He's the power of habit guy.
You heard he had a new book out, the super communicators book.
I saw it.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
And I thought you'd be on that way before I am.
I ate that.
I'm about to go through itagain.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
It's up my alley.
I don't know if it's good, butit's good for me.
And one of the things he sayswe all have a who we are story
and when we can really embodythat, that makes us inherently
interesting.
It makes connecting easierbecause we're going to draw in
people who are authenticallylike us and we can slowly build
a circle of friends from there.
So maybe we kind of go into howwe identify the who we are
(16:24):
story.
We can talk about that.
But I think the only thing Iwould add to what you say is
authenticity isn't just beingabout sincere, it's also being
about, yeah, like be be you, bewhat you're into, be not what
you're not into.
Like I don't, like I don't likerock music.
I'll be with a lot of dudesLike I love this rock music and
I I authentically got simplethings Like these are benign
things but little elements likethat.
(16:44):
But again, I'm not really intothat.
Yeah, it's not really my style.
Saying no, I think, is a reallypowerful authenticity tool.
So I don't know, I have a smallspin on what you said.
Otherwise, I'm doubling down oneverything.
Definitely the human rule.
That was the most powerfulthing that you and Jill did for
me back when I moved in with youguys.
I remember I harbored a lot ofstuff I was just ashamed of, I
was just ashamed of, I wasembarrassed about it.
(17:05):
I was like I wouldn't tellanybody and then I would share a
little bit with you guys andyou would go that's so normal,
I've been there, we've all beenthere, and then I would share a
little bit more with you guysand all of a sudden that shame
started to evaporate a littlebit.
And what's interesting, once Ifelt normal.
No-transcript.
(17:38):
It's that Carl Rogers quote thefirst stage of change is
acceptance, or whatever thatquote is.
But I double down on everythingyou say, man.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, yeah, I love the authenticity piece, actually
the next level, human coaching.
When we coach individuals andwhen I train our coaches, this
is the primary thing.
This is what I think peopledon't understand there's never
been another human like you,danny, and like me, jade, and
like you, the listener, ever inthe history of humanity, ever,
(18:08):
nor will there ever be again.
That viewpoint immediatelyopens up an interesting
perspective when you realize Iam solely unique.
Not only am I unique, there'snever been me, nor will there
ever be me again.
And what happens is that's thestarting point.
But as soon as we begin todisavow our story that's the
(18:30):
starting point, but as soon aswe begin to disavow our story,
that becomes a block toauthenticity.
And as soon as we're blockingauthenticity, no one actually
ever gets to know us.
And so I have this theory that,because we're not truly being
ourselves, no one actually evergets to know us.
And I have this theory thatmaybe is not true at all, but
energetically, I think humansunderstand that.
(18:51):
I think somehow they know thatthere's something I'm not being
told and it doesn't quite feelsafe with this person.
It doesn't feel allencompassing, it doesn't feel
real and therefore I'm going tohold back.
I think this is one of thefirst stages, and so this idea
of the who you are story, thisstory we tell, this story, by
(19:16):
the way, is very inaccurate fora lot of people.
And it's inaccurate for a lotof people because they don't
want to share fully or they lookat their struggles and they see
them as something thatshouldn't be, something that
they are out with people orshare with people.
But not sharing your strugglesmakes it look like you don't
(19:37):
have any, makes it look likeyou're not human and you are no
longer relatable.
So one of the things that Ithink I have always done is that
when someone shares with methis human rule and this empathy
rule, the next thing I do andagain, this is stuff that I
picked up from my mother is I dosort of two sort of social
chess moves that you and I wroteabout in Tribe, and to me, the
(20:00):
first chess move isself-deprecation.
Now, one of the things thathappens here is a lot of people
hear self-deprecation and theyhear weakness, especially men,
but it's self-deprecationwithout weakness.
In other words, it's not takingyour power away.
It's just essentially sayingI'm human too.
It's self-deprecating and beinglike I'm on your level, because
(20:22):
we humans, we want our statusto be equal or a little bit
above the next person.
So the first chess movepsychological chess move is I'm
just like you, I also mess up.
And the next one is tocompliment freely and also
(20:43):
authentically, which is tobasically say you are powerful
in this way authentically, whichis to basically say you are
powerful in this way, not in away of blowing smoke or
something like that, and thatallows people to and I think you
said it best it allows peopleto step more fully into their
authenticity.
It's almost like they havefreedom to be more of who they
are and if they see you owningyour story right Like.
(21:04):
One of the things that was thehardest for me is talking about
my affair.
You know my dumb, jock sort ofperiod when I was young, feeling
like I wasn't smart, feelinglike I wanted to hide my anger
or my insecurity around beingbullied by my brother, maybe, or
all the different things that Ithought made me weak.
(21:24):
It made me weak, actually, inhindsight, as I've owned them
one by one over my life.
That is what makes me solid inthe eyes of other people, and I
think when you do this two-partchess move.
Hey, I'm only human, I'm nobetter than you.
And two, you're prettywonderful in these ways.
What that does is allow peopleto step up and be more in their
(21:49):
power.
And I'll say two other thingsabout that.
If we go back to childhooddevelopment and the story of
who's who, the first key needsfrom the ages of zero to six
years old this is very clear inthe research are safety and
security needs.
And if those safety andsecurity needs aren't solid, we
go around looking for thosesafety and security needs, doing
all kinds of dysfunctionalthings, mainly chasing power and
(22:11):
trying to control.
So we all know people who haveto control every little thing.
They're the backseat driver,they need to have everything
planned out or they chase power.
When you don't have safety andsecurity, you start controlling
things and you chase power.
By the way, we all know thisturns people off, right,
whenever someone's trying toalways come over the top with
their power I'm better than youor control situations.
(22:33):
All of us are turned off bythat.
We get wrapped up into theircontrol.
Freak energy, right, and that'san off-putting energy.
And then the next thing is inadolescence we move from safety
and security needs to mainlyacceptance and belonging needs,
safety and security needs, tomainly acceptance and belonging
needs.
And if those things are stuntedin a way, then we chase
popularity and we do popularityseeking and peacocking, which
(22:55):
again is just hey, look at me,look how tough I am, or look how
pretty I am, or look how manyall this materialistic stuff I
have, and again, people seeright through that because they
just go that's a facade, we seeit, we just don't see it within
ourselves and so, again, this isrepulsive sort of energy.
So I do think, when we talkabout this idea and I do think
(23:17):
it's really nice the way youphrase that your who you are,
story or the history of who youare it must be owned, and the
degree to which our copingmechanisms are authentic and
solid and we can help othersfeel safe and secure and
accepted and belonging becausewe feel that way, is the degree
to which people will want toattach to us, because
(23:39):
essentially all they're lookingfor is a model to be like.
You know, am I okay?
And is there anyone in thisworld?
I can actually feel safe beingmyself around and, by the way, I
don't know how all of you allfeel who are listening to this,
but I'm going to say right now Ithink most people don't feel
safe with other people andtherefore they cannot be
(24:01):
themselves, and I think thepeople who make others feel safe
are so incredibly rare thatwhen they're there, they are
liked by a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, that's well put and I think you're speaking to
something we've talked about inthe past.
A lot is kind of lowering yourstatus and elevating other
people's status as well.
We know that status is one ofthe core needs of the human
brains.
We are from back in theSavannah days is one of the core
needs of the human brains weare from back in the Savannah
days.
Status is a big deal.
We're constantly vying andjockeying to have elevated
(24:33):
status and that's why, when weget into a room so often and we
feel like no one's looking at me, no one's paying attention to
me, we have to all of a suddenelevate ourselves and become
something that maybe we're notjust to get out there, just to
be seen.
There's a little anecdote aboutI'm going to butcher this, I'm
not a good storyteller like ourman Ray Hynda, shout out.
(24:54):
But there's this little girl.
It's an anecdote.
This little girl is out tolunch with her dad and the
waiter comes by and goes whatwill you have for dinner, little
girl?
And the girl goes I will haveall of your cookies, please.
And the father goes no, she'llhave chicken and vegetables.
(25:15):
And the waiter goes and looksat the little girl and goes,
looks at the father and sayswould you like milk with your
cookies?
Sweetheart Walks away and thelittle girl is looking shocked,
looks at her dad, goes, she seesme and dad's like kind of like
what are you talking about?
But on some level we're allkind of that little girl.
Yes, I just compare both of usto that little girl.
(25:37):
We all just want to be seen, weall just want to be like am I
important, do I matter?
And that's.
I love that little anecdotebecause it's funny.
You do this with grown adultstoo and just go I see you and
elevate their status just alittle bit.
Now to your point.
It has to be sincere.
You can't be like Jade, you'rean amazing basketball player,
(25:58):
you're the greatest I've everseen.
If that's not the case, right,that's not how you elevate
status.
But you can do it in littleways, like you're speaking to,
by lowering your status, bysaying I've been there too, I've
been through tough times too,I've suffered too, and elevating
their status.
Wow, it's actually reallyimpressive how well you've moved
through this.
It's amazing how you've handledthis.
I'm just so impressed.
(26:19):
That's one of my favoritecoaching strategies to do.
I wouldn't even call it astrategy.
You hear people's stories incoaching and they go through
some hard stuff and justacknowledging like, just so, you
know that's really hard.
I don't even feel comfortabletalking about vegetables and
squats right now, like you'redealing with some tough stuff.
You're kind of in survival modeand you can see their shoulders
come down.
(26:39):
They're like, yeah, I am, I am.
It's to your point about safetyand security.
But I love both of those points.
If you can just make peoplefeel seen and then just elevate
their status a little bit bylowering your own just a little
bit, people are going to want tobe around you to kind of bring
it full circle back to being anexperience.
So I think those tools workingtogether are really powerful.
(26:59):
But that's the essence of it.
Status is a need of the humanbrain.
If you lower yours and elevateothers, people just love being
around you and ironically, theystop fighting.
Like fighting.
Look at me, look at me, see me,see me, look at my
accomplishments, look at myaccomplishments.
They relax and they just kindof become themselves.
So I think that was a reallyimportant point that I wanted to
touch on and I think we can wecan kind of transition into
(27:21):
maybe how to even identify theauthenticity piece.
I think that's a hard part, thatwhen most people talk about
authenticity, people are like Idon't even know who I am.
And I would say there's.
There's really two parts beforeyou can even begin to grow.
One is just self-awareness,which is really hard for people
Like I.
Always I was sort of shit onpersonality tests because if you
(27:43):
take a personality test theyare inherently they're
self-evaluations and we arereally bad at evaluating
ourselves.
So you get something that'sjust not, probably not true and
probably not consistent, becauseif I'm feeling in a good mood
today I'm going to be onepersonality and if I'm a bad
mood tomorrow I'm going to be ina different personality.
So I don't love personalitytests for this.
But first part of the formula isself-awareness.
(28:04):
I think so many people outthere are like I don't even know
myself.
I've been playing this culturegame, as you would call it, for
so long that I feel like I'velost who I am and the who I am
story and what I stand for andwhat I believe.
And I think that's the firststep.
Before you can even get toself-acceptance and the stuff we
were talking about, you have toget to self-awareness and I
think that's really a difficultchallenge.
(28:27):
I remember early on, early 20s,being around you, being around
Jill again, and I rememberthinking like the first part is
understanding what I think andthe second part was
communicating it.
So I went through this wholeprocess where I'm trying to
figure out, all right, whatexactly do I think, what exactly
do I stand for?
That was hard enough.
And then I started saying itout loud and what was in my
(28:48):
brain never came out of my mouthever.
It came out like googlygook andI'm like that's not what I
meant, that's not what I meantat all.
So there's this process ofself-awareness that is.
It's not a light switch, dude,it's sort of.
I love the Michael, I call itthe Michelangelo model.
He has that quote about thestatue of David.
It's like the statue wasalready there.
I just released it from themarble.
That, to me, is how humandevelopment works.
(29:09):
It's not a light switch whereyou just get to flip something
and now I'm self-aware and nowI'm in growth mode.
It's more of a chisel, chisel,chisel, chisel, chisel, until
David is sort of revealed fromthe marble.
So my question on this is sortof again the how?
Where do we begin?
How do we begin thisself-awareness process?
I have a couple thoughts on thematter, but I definitely, if
(29:31):
it's cool, transition into thisdude.
So it's basically we are anexperience, but how do we even
identify the experience that weare?
I guess is the question to stayon theme here.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, well, you know, in the next level human model,
the first two principles thatyou must master are perception
and ownership.
So I'll start there.
So you know, the definition ofbeing like a human being is
being.
When you're being something, itis alignment and thinking,
feeling, choosing and actingright.
So that's your, when you'realigned there, that's your
authenticity.
(30:00):
You can't be unaligned inthinking, feeling, choosing and
acting.
What people don't understand isthey're as they're developing,
though, they focus on being, butthey don't realize that there's
one thing that comes beforethinking, feeling, choosing and
acting Before you can think,feel, choose and act differently
, you have to see the worldaccurately, right.
And if you want to change,you're going to have to see the
(30:20):
world differently.
This is why perception is themost important thing that any
human can master.
So it's perception first.
And, by the way, you said youknow who we are, who you are and
who we are.
Who we are is who we've beenand what we've done and who
we're becoming and what we willdo.
(30:41):
That's who we are Right.
And so if you neglect, if youdisavow who you were and what
you did and what happened in thepast, what happened to me, how
I responded to that you areessentially disavowing your
authenticity and therefore, inmy mind, you can't actually go
(31:03):
forward and be who you'resupposed to be.
Every piece of your story mustbe owned.
Now, it doesn't necessarilymean that it has to be shared,
but I do believe it must beowned, it must be integrated
into you, and that's most of thework of therapy and coaching
comes down to integrating pastthings that people simply are
(31:25):
not able to integrate.
They will blame, they willcomplain, they will distract,
they will deny, they will wimpand they will whine, but they
will not change.
So the first thing is to seethat those things, all those
things that you did, were usefulin what you can now do.
That's the first thing.
If you cannot make that stage,you cannot become your next
(31:48):
level human self.
You will always be stuck in apast self, and people talk about
this authenticity a lot.
To me they get this wrong inself-development.
It's not authentic to a pastself and not authentic to a
current self, but authentic toyour next level human future
self.
But in order to be authentic toyour next level human future
self, you do have to integratewho you were and who you are,
(32:11):
but you can't stay there.
So that's the first thing, andthat all is about perception.
I was then, and with this mix,I am now going to write down,
(32:33):
stamp in the ground, take myflag and say this is who I will
now be.
Out of all the things I'velearned, all the struggles, all
the difficulties, I will now bethis and I will move forward
with this, and that's how youbecome authentic.
And one other thing I'll sayhere is that, to me, one of the
number one things if you reallywant to know what people do,
what they're really doing whenpeople feel safe around them is
(32:55):
it's all about emotions.
It's what they're doing withtheir emotions.
They have emotional integrity,they have emotional regulation
and they are able to useemotional alchemy.
In other words, when you'rearound someone who has emotional
regulation and they're stable,in other words, you're coming to
(33:15):
them with an emotional problemand they can stay centered
without getting emotional back.
That's a person you're going towant to go to, because what
you're doing is you're comingwith a storm and this person is
acting as this giant rock thatthe storm is just ramming itself
against, and they are unfazedand this allows you to feel like
(33:36):
, no matter what I come to thisperson with.
They're my rock, they're mysafe place.
The storm doesn't batter themand that's because they owned
all their past struggles andstuff and they decided who
they're going to be andtherefore their emotions are
their emotions and your emotionsare your emotions, so they are
very emotionally regulated.
(33:56):
That feels very safe whenyou're with someone who's
emotionally regulated.
Think about, in romance, whatpeople say.
Men will say I want a woman whocan nourish me and nurture me.
Women are like I want someonewho makes me feel safe and
secure.
They'll even use terms like Iwant daddy energy.
You hear that around a lot.
Well, what is a strong father?
(34:18):
A strong father is someonewhose emotions are regulated and
you can show up with your stuffand they're just solid for you.
They just show up for you.
Now the final piece is emotionalalchemy, which also means they
can take anger and feel it anddeal with it and not express it
and turn it into motivation anddrive, or they can.
(34:40):
You know, emotional.
There's also this idea ofemotional appropriateness.
You know there's also this ideaof emotional appropriateness.
You know, if you're sad andit's not the appropriate place
to cry, you can handle that, beemotionally regulated and cry
when it becomes, you know,necessary.
So I do think what we're reallytalking about is someone's
ability to emotionally regulate,be an emotional integrity, have
(35:01):
emotional appropriateness andalso be able to alchemize their
emotions.
When we have someone that isjust solid emotionally, we're
like okay, this is my person, Ican always go to them, they're
always going to be there for me.
But in order to have thatemotional control, you cannot
disavow your past.
You cannot.
(35:22):
You have to master perceptionand ownership, the process, in
fact, of going through thesestruggles.
That is the whole process thatgets you to this emotional point
where you're solid, and if youavoid the struggle, you can't
become emotionally solid.
And, by the way, you talkedabout being an experience for
(35:45):
the world.
Well, that's kind of whatemotional alchemy is right.
Once you have emotional alchemy, you wake up in the morning and
you can go.
I feel like shit, or I'm sad,or I've got.
You know, I'm grieving, orwhatever it is, and I go.
I got work to do, though, andso I feel this and I can do this
, and that is an incrediblypowerful tool set that almost
very few humans have.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah, dude, this is great.
Actually, this is perfectbecause I have this workshop
coming up, a small workshop withrelatively new leaders and
managers, and I'm kicking offthis workshop, sort of talking
about perception.
I'm talking about mindsets andI come to five mindsets of
effective leadership essentially, and two of them are exactly
(36:26):
what you're talking about.
The first is that well, let meback up, my big theme is like we
put leadership on the pedestal,like it's fun, that it's easy,
that you just carry all theinfluence and power.
But leadership is heavy man,and it's not fun oftentimes and
it's lonely at the topoftentimes and it's a lot of
pressure and the standards arehigher and all of these things
(36:49):
that are it's a lot of work,like it's actually not all, just
all good, all good all the timeat the top and the leadership
thing.
So I'm trying to flip some ofthese leadership mindsets to be
like, actually it is hard, butbecause it's hard, that's why
it's valuable.
And there's two things that Ithought of.
Two of the mindsets I thoughtof when you're kind of sharing
exactly what you were sharing,and they're right in line.
(37:09):
One is that the leader needs tobe the most certain in the room.
That's a big one.
The leader needs to be mostcertain in the room.
It speaks to that being therock in that when those tidal
waves are coming through.
And when you say be the loudest, I don't mean that you just say
stuff with the most conviction,I don't mean that you just
never make a mistake or neverfail or never apologize.
(37:31):
That's not what it means to becertain.
What it means to be certain isto be the most credible in the
room.
How do you get to be the mostcredible in the room?
Well, on one hand, you have tobe competent, you have to be
good at what you do.
That's just a matter of fact inleadership.
But the other piece of this isthat you do have to be, you have
to have strong integrity.
When I say integrity, I don'tnecessarily mean moral, I mean
(37:53):
more how a civil engineerdefines integrity.
The second definition ofintegrity is to be unimpaired,
sound in structure, like abridge, that kind of integrity
like the rock in the ocean, theway you do.
That is exactly what you'resaying, this emotional alchemy I
just use the word emotionalregulation, but I like alchemy a
lot.
(38:13):
That's exactly what it is beingable to understand, process and
digest emotions in appropriatecontextual ways.
That is so powerful and peoplelook up to that like crazy.
It's exactly what you said.
So I'm feeling encouraged.
I think that's exactly.
I like the rock in the stormmetaphor.
I think that's exactly what itis.
(38:33):
The other mindset I talk a lotabout is the one I started this
podcast, which is that as aleader, your energy is really
contagious.
So I had this boss once shortstint at this marketing agency
and this guy would something big, would go on at the market like
a big deal would happen.
We would lose a big customerand he'd be like no big deal,
we're all good, it's totallyfine.
(38:54):
And then the next day therewould be an email that was like
seven minutes there in the queuefor seven minutes not a long
time and he would burst out ofthe office like a crazy person
and run and be like there's noemails, what's going on, what is
everyone doing?
Just the unpredictable energyof that and what do you think
the office was like?
It was unpredictable, it wasinconsistent, it was a little
(39:16):
erratic and that all fed off ofhis energy.
So being a leader, just being ahuman experience you got to be
solid, you have to be the one,and that's heavy man.
That's really hard.
It's much easier said than doneto do this stuff.
And the last thing that I sortof wrote down that you reminded
me of I was reading about, freudhad the concept of catharsis,
(39:38):
something that's cathartic andwe assume in the West, or in
America specifically, we thinkwell, a cathartic experience
that's like you go into theserec rooms you ever see these
days with like a sledgehammerand you just smash a bus or
smash a TV or it's like justventing.
That's cathartic.
And this guy was JamesPennebaker.
(39:58):
He's the guy the Pennebakerwriting exercise.
If you don't know what that is,you should look that up.
It's a really powerful exercise.
He's a professor at UT and hewas talking about this and he
said but that's not whatEuropeans, that's not what Freud
meant when he meant cathartic.
A cathartic experience isactually what you're talking
about, jade.
It's being able to understandand attach meaning to our
(40:19):
emotions.
So we feel the emotions.
It's not just about expressingthem, it's about understanding
them, it's about processing them, it's about attaching them to
our past, attaching to our story, attaching to our future
purpose.
So a cathartic experience isnot just an outpour.
It's actually more like apuzzle.
It's when you take the emotionand you match it with the
appropriate information.
That's what a really powerfulcathartic experience is, which
(40:41):
does make us feel better and ismore growth oriented.
So I thought that was a littletidbit to share on top of what
you were talking about as well.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Yeah, I like that a lot and I also think you know
we're talking about emotions andthis whole idea.
I think we also get emotionswrong when we talk about them.
You know, I don't think andthis is sort of even in the
space where you know you getinto this male, female ways of
you know dealing with emotionsand a lot of women will say,
well, the man's not vulnerableenough or he needs to express
(41:08):
his emotions more.
And a lot of men will pin beingemotionally volatile on women.
And the interesting thing isyou'll find men and women who
both have this really figuredout.
Well, and when you have itfigured out emotionally, what
ends up happening is theseindividuals will feel an emotion
but do not have to express theemotion.
And I think we get that wrong.
(41:30):
Right, we think, because wefeel an emotion, that it
automatically needs to beexpressed, and it's not always
appropriate to express anemotion in a particular way.
But they will eventually let itout.
But I think what you're talkingabout it's far more nuanced.
You know you don't just feelsad and then break down crying.
You got certain things to do.
(41:51):
The example I like to use islike a warrior in battle right,
if they're fighting the battle.
That's the task at hand.
It's not appropriate to cry atthat point, Like, let's say, you
see your buddy fall, right, youdon't cry there, otherwise
you're going to fall or more ofyour buddies are going to fall.
So what you have to do is youhave to stay focused on the job
at hand.
Now, when the battle's over,now it's appropriate to cry.
(42:14):
We don't have this nuanced sortof discussion, and I do think
that the individuals we go tothat we trust, are the ones who
are most in control of theiremotional states Not suppressing
their emotional states, but incontrol of their emotional
states.
They get to decide whether it'sappropriate for that emotion to
(42:37):
be sort of expressed.
And individuals who don't haveemotional regulation are
oftentimes stiff-armed by manypeople their friends, their
family, their work, et ceteraand we don't know why.
But that's why Someone needs todo an entire course.
Well, we do.
You know Next Level Human.
We do the coaching on this.
(42:57):
We teach you how to regulateyour emotions.
But there should be, you know,this stuff should be taught in
elementary school, right?
Then you know, like, how todeal with emotions.
Emotions are meant to be felt,not lived.
People get stuck in theiremotions and they get controlled
by their emotions.
So now you're stuck in anemotion and you're controlled by
an emotion.
This is not being vulnerable.
This is not healthy.
(43:19):
What you want to be is you wantto be able to freely express
your emotions when it isappropriate and to control them
and not suppress them at anystate.
I'm not saying take in sadnessand leave it there.
I'm saying take in sadness, bein sadness.
You don't have to express itand when it's appropriate, when
you feel like it's appropriateto do that, you can let that out
(43:42):
.
And, by the way, the degree towhich we have people around us
who will allow us to expressthat is the degree to which I
think we develop even healthieremotional regulation as men.
As you know, how many people wehear this all the time right
now, how many people do youthink would be comfortable truly
with you crying as a man inthis culture, with you crying as
(44:03):
a man in this culture, right?
How many men are actuallycomfortable with that?
And the degree to which webecome comfortable ourselves and
we choose partners and friendswho would be comfortable with
that is a degree to which Ithink we figure this out and get
more healthy with this, but Ido think it does come down to
this emotional state, because ifyou're not emotionally
(44:23):
regulated, you won't be able todo the human role.
You won't be able to do the lawof empathy.
You know what you'll do ifyou're not emotionally regulated
.
You'll think very wrongly butyou'll think I'm not going to
give that to them.
They're going to just take thatand run with it.
This is what people who are notemotionally regulated or not in
their power do.
They don't want to give anyonea compliment because they're
(44:44):
afraid they're going to get thebig head.
But people who are emotionallyregulated, that doesn't bother
them at all.
They also are not too torn upabout people who don't like them
, like that book that you had meread way back the Courage to be
Disliked.
People who are emotionallyregulated have courage, because
think about what courage is.
(45:04):
Courage is fear, this emotionthat you have that could easily
control you and keep you stuck,and the ability to feel the fear
and take a step towards itanyway.
That's courage, right, andthat's emotional regulation.
Now, who wouldn't want courage?
But we're never taught whatthat means and what's the most
inspirational thing that youcould have.
(45:25):
It's courage.
It's courage and I do thinkwhen we bring this experience
and the example and this energyto the world, that's essentially
what we are bringing to people.
We're teaching them.
This is how you have courage,and when we watch someone have
courage, it engenders us withmore courage, and I think that
(45:45):
is really what we're talkingabout it engenders us with more
courage, and I think that isreally what we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Yeah, that's a key distinction.
I definitely am not or was notadvocating that to be a positive
experience, to be that rock inthe ocean that you need to
suppress or ignore your emotions.
It's a bell-shaped curve, right, I think.
For a long time, I think formost of human history probably,
but especially through World WarI, world War II, there was an
issue of emotional suppression.
I've talked to my father aboutthis, who's a Vietnam veteran.
(46:16):
He went to a therapist but hewouldn't tell anybody.
That was very frowned upon toanalyze or assess or learn how
to regulate.
He grew up in the Northeasttough environment, went to
Vietnam.
His dad was a World War II vetand all these World War II vets
in his neighborhood were just sodysfunctional.
(46:37):
They're dysfunctionalalcoholics or they are
excessively violent or it leaksout in some way.
And then you had the 60s and Ithink there was a good
correction where it's like no,it started to become a more
emotionally expressive culture,emotionally free culture, just
live, laugh, love, whateverthose 60s sayings are, and I
think that carried into theself-esteem movement in the 90s,
(46:58):
like be yourself, be expressivehowever you feel is good is
okay.
And now I think we're finallykind of coming over that curve
where the pendulum has maybeswung a little bit too far,
where our feelings are not facts, our feelings are not who we
are.
They are a wave of anexperience that passed through
us.
They can provide us direction.
(47:18):
They're incredibly useful.
That's what you're talkingabout the emotional regulation.
So yeah, I'm definitely notsaying, to be that anchor, to be
that rock in the ocean, youneed to be beyond emotions.
That's not what we're saying atall, but it's interesting.
Now we are in a time where I dothink now people are pushing
that pendulum back the other waya little bit.
Being like, okay, it's gotten alittle out of hand with some of
the evidence with therapy, isactually just excessive
(47:40):
rumination now People aren'tgetting better in therapy and
we're just trying to push itback to the center a little bit
to say, no, definitely beexpressive, definitely,
definitely, process, definitelyregulate your emotional
experience, but bring it back tothe middle, to where it's just
not.
Your identity and your, yourentire code of who you are, have
this, have this balance inbetween.
So I think that's a goodcorrection that you made.
(48:01):
I do have a question for you,sort of, and we can wrap up if
you want, jay, but one questionused to have the.
I'm curious if you still standby it.
And if you still, well, I'llask it and then we'll kind of
see where it goes.
You said the saying that itresonated with me a lot at the
time and still does.
Actually, it's something Ithink about a lot.
You say when you were goingthrough some change process, you
said I will no longer toleratethose who see me as I am not,
(48:26):
nor as I no longer wish to be.
And my question number one isthat something that you still
believe?
And if so, maybe you canexplain that quote, because I
feel like it's been reallypowerful for me.
And then, number two, though,speaking of is it an
overcorrection, is itself-delusion to be like I don't
tolerate people who no longersee me as I wish to be?
(48:48):
So they see me as I am, theysee me accurately.
So is that delusional to belike I know I no longer tolerate
people who see me as I nolonger wish to be?
Speaker 1 (48:57):
I still stand by that saying, but I'll I'll make it
more accurate, uh, for you.
So I don't tolerate people whosee me a way I'm not, a negative
way that I'm not, or a negativeway I no longer wish to be.
Because the truth is I verymuch want to hang out with
people who see me and treat meaccording to my next level,
(49:18):
better self, right, which I'mnot that yet.
So the more accurate way that Iwould say that is I know I will
not tolerate someone seeing mea negative way.
I am not or no longer wish tobe.
I want to be with people whosee me according to my best self
and treat me according to mybest self.
Now here's the part about,about that statement I also have
(49:42):
to hold myself to that samestandard, right?
In other words, I can't seemyself a way that I'm not right.
So that's the other part.
I can't necessarily go.
I am this thing now and Ihaven't done the work to get
there.
So there's a flip side of this.
I will not, you know, seemyself as something that I'm not
(50:07):
willing to actually be Right.
So that's the that's the flipside of this, and think about
that saying the words are chosenvery carefully.
I will not see myself assomething I am not prepared to
actually be, which is, if I'mgoing to see myself a particular
way to protect against delusion, then I must think that way,
(50:28):
feel that way, choose that wayand act that way.
Right, I can't just decide I'mthis way.
We see this a lot, and this iswhere it's delusional, right?
You know, I always give theexample of the American Idol
situation, right, where someonegets up and they sing and they
can't sing worth of anything,but no one ever told them they
can't sing.
And you're like, you'redelusional.
(50:48):
Whoever told you you can sing?
And to me, I think this goes ona lot.
Here's how we know.
This is again why perception isthe critical tool for
individuals, because if youdon't have the skill of
perception, you don't see therepeated patterns, recurrent
obstacles and stuck emotionsthat are telling you you're
doing things wrong.
(51:09):
You can call it if you want toget woo-woo, you can call our
higher self.
Our spiritual selves aretalking to us all the time and
what they're essentially sayingis that pattern, that obstacle,
that stuck emotion, that's yourpattern, that's your obstacle,
that's your stuck emotion.
It's happening to you again andagain and again, which means
you're the problem right, and soto me it's not delusional
(51:32):
because those things correctright.
So to me I go your repeatedpatterns, your stuck emotions,
your recurrent obstacles,they're the corrective forces in
our lives.
As a matter of fact, the humancoaches, the people that I
certify to do coaching.
They are trained to be patternspotters.
That's ultimately what it is.
They go through and seepeople's patterns, because
(51:53):
that's another thing, by the way, talking about people who
people want to go to for adviceand feel safe around.
Here's the thing If you'resomeone who is a really good
friend and you're going to see apattern in someone that they
can't see, the analogy I alwayslike to use is bad breath.
Right, most people who have badbreath aren't going to know they
have bad breath.
You're, as a good friend.
(52:13):
You have to tell them, but youhave to tell them in a way that
is not going to make them feelhorrible about themselves.
The only way they would know isif you know they've never been
kissed, people are keeping theirdistance, people are offering
them gum all the time.
Then they should get a hint.
They have bad breath.
But what's really interesting isthe people.
Who people love the most arethe people who go.
You know there's something Iwant to tell you, share with you
, and, by the way, you know Ihave my own stuff right.
(52:35):
There's the self-deprecationand this and that, but what I've
seen and tell me, if you knowyou can I always say tell me,
tell me to fuck off if you want,because maybe I'm wrong, right,
and I say that and then I saybut here's what I see.
Right, that might be a patternfor you, and what almost always
happens is when it's said withlove and it's said with
(52:57):
authenticity and it's not saidwith judgment, people will have
their emotional reaction to itinitially, but they will always
come back and essentially eitherbe grateful you shared so that
they could check in, or theymight say I don't agree, but
they will always be grateful forthe coaching.
And so, from my perspective,that's how you keep from being
(53:18):
delusional.
Right, you look at yourrepeated patterns, stuck
obstacles and stuck emotions andrecurring obstacles, and you
also have people around you thatare also attuned and aren't
afraid to tell you that's yourpattern, it's not mine, and I
think that's how you do it.
And I don't think most people,most people, don't want to do
that we live in a world nowwhere it's like, if something's
(53:38):
going on in a relationship,you're the toxic one and I just
go.
If you continue to exposeyourself to something toxic,
voluntarily exposing yourself tosomething toxic, then I hate to
tell you this, but you're thetoxic one, because what else is
that?
Then?
There's a toxin over here thatyou keep exposing yourself to.
That tells me you haven'tfigured something out.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
Yeah, I like that distinction man.
I think that makes a lot ofsense to me Because I think that
was the back end of that sayingwas something that I struggled
with because maybe it feltinconsistent, because it was not
the last part of.
I will see myself as somethingI'm willing to be, so I think
that's a really good distinction.
(54:20):
But that's interesting.
So that's something you stilllive by and recommend and sort
of coach people on as well.
That's really cool Okay.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Yeah, there's no question in my my mind, as a
matter of fact, I think that'sthe courage to be this light
thing like never.
You know, I think the degree towhich you have people who see
you as your, your next levelhuman self and not your past
self, is a degree to which youwill be happy and fulfilled in
life, and the degree to whichyou can see other people that
way is a degree to which youwill have friends who love and
adore you.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
Well, put man Put a stamp on the episode Love you,
homie.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Yeah, so I will end this.
Just stay on the line, becauseI want to.
Well, we'll catch up in aminute anyway, but for all you
who are listening in live,thanks for being here and see
you at the next episode.
What's going on everybody?
Welcome to the Next Level Humanpodcast.
I am your host and I'm actuallyhere today with my co-author,
danny Coleman.
Danny is a master level coachin the personal development
space.
He is also a premier expert inleadership, doing corporate
trainings in that world.
We actually wrote a booktogether this book right here
(00:23):
called Tribe, which is one of myfavorite books that I've
written, and we're actuallygoing to talk a little bit about
this book in a sense.
But what I want to do is getDanny on, have a conversation,
and one of the things we werejust talking about before we
came on is what should we cover?
And one of the interestingthings about Danny I think this
(00:47):
about him he kind of sees methis way.
Of course, neither one of uswill own this, but it's funny
because he sees me this way andI see him this way is that we're
each people who we go to forhelp.
So usually there's not manypeople in my life who I really
want to talk to or I will openup to.
When I'm dealing with stuff, Iusually am the person that
(01:09):
people come to for help, butDanny is one of the few that I
go to and Danny feels the sameabout me and we're talking about
this idea is why is thatcertain people actually feel
compelled to be around otherpeople?
We talked about it in this book, danny, if you remember in the
beginning that when I was a kid,I used to be fascinated by why
(01:32):
were some of my teachers inelementary school really
well-liked, why some weren't,why some of my classmates were
picked on, why some weren't.
What was it?
It was like this energeticthing that I couldn't quite put
my finger on and that followedme into adulthood.
And it's really interesting,right?
Because now it's the careerthat you and I have is really
trying to understand thedynamics of individuals.
(01:55):
And so I'll just start us outwith the statement that you made
.
There's this idea that when yourun into somebody or you meet
somebody or you have a friend,that we're each unique and
individual, and this will be myfirst sort of question to you,
danny, or statement to see whereyou want to go with this.
We're all individuals and youmight say well, what is it about
(02:15):
, jade or Danny or me, thatmakes me unique?
And, you know, makes peopleattracted to me or not attracted
to me, makes people feel goodaround me or not good around me
makes people want to come to mefor advice or go to someone else
.
And I think, really it's threethings, and I want to see what
you think about this, dan.
I think it's the energy we bringright, like there's an energy
that when someone walks into aroom, you feel it right, and we
(02:40):
humans don't oftentimes thinkabout this, but even if you're
in a room, when someone comes in, even if they say nothing, it
changes the energy of the roomif you're paying attention.
So we each come with aparticular energy, right.
We also, as we begin to engageand people talk to us, and the
way we animate and just the waywe move about, we are a
(03:03):
particular experience as well.
Right, we create an experiencein the room.
So it's not just our energy,but it starts to become a full
experience.
And then, of course, we havethe ability to set a particular
example as well.
We can be inspiring and we caninfluence, and so I think it
comes down to this sort ofthere's a particular energetic,
there's a particular sort ofexperience that we bring.
(03:24):
And then there's this sort ofexample that we set, and I want
to unpack this with you and getyour thoughts around why is this
and how do we cultivate this ina positive way, perhaps to be
more effective in our personalrelationships and also
positively impact people.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, I love this.
This is your phrase and this isabout to be a hostile takeover.
Man, I'm about to get Jade onmy podcast.
Right now, we're going to do aswap.
Welcome to Take Care Radioeveryone.
This is a hostile takeover, butI love this phrase that you
have you say as human beings, weare an experience, and that, to
(04:05):
me, captures everything youwere just talking about.
It encapsulates the energy, itencapsulates the example, it
encapsulates everything that wesay and everything we emote.
It reminds me of that.
Maya Angelou quote Maya AngelouWinston-Salem native.
Shout out Winston-Salem as youare.
Yeah, sort of Winston-Salemnative.
Shout out Winston-Salem as youare.
(04:26):
Yeah, sort of Winston-Salemnative right, were you born
there?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
No, you're born in New York.
Definitely grew up there.
Definitely grew up there.
I grew up in Winston, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah, I knew that.
Maya Angelou that quote peoplewill forget what you said, they
will forget what you did, butthey will never forget how you
made them feel.
And that quote, I think it's aguiding quote in a lot of my
work.
I work with a lot of leadersand I teach this concept called
emotional contagion.
You know I love my psychologybooks, man, and one of my
favorite concepts I've ever comeacross is they're able to
(04:52):
measure this.
They're able to measure howcontagious our energy is, how
contagious our emotion is.
There's this thing called mirrorneurons and I know you're
familiar, Jade, but just for theaudience, these mirror neurons,
they can actually see theseareas of the brain firing off
when somebody does something.
For example, if I yawn, thesame centers in your brain to
get you to yawn.
(05:12):
That's why yawning is socontagious, or laughter is so
contagious.
A lot of these things there'ssomething in like this is like
the 15th century.
Have you heard of this dude InFrance, this lady?
I don't know what was wrongwith her.
She starts just dancing in themiddle of the street.
Oh, I've heard about this yet,yeah, for like an hour just
dancing, and then all of asudden another guy starts
dancing.
(05:33):
This is a true thing, this is atrue phenomenon.
This is how they alwaysdescribe neurons and things like
that.
Then all of a sudden, theentire town square is dancing
for hours and hours and hours,and it's crazy to me that that
is how contagious we are and howconnected we are as human
beings.
So I always love this phrasethat you have is that you are an
(05:55):
experience, and we work with alot of professionals who coach
other people, who lead otherpeople, and it's so much more
potent when we're in thatposition of authority too.
So if I'm a leader, my emotionsare going to be 10x more
contagious just because of thedynamic there, or romantic
relationships is going to be alot more contagious than to a
stranger.
(06:15):
So the closer you get, the morethere's a dynamic, there's more
dynamic of power, the moreinfluential, the more contagious
you're going to be.
So I always kind of joke whenI'm training these like leaders,
managers, I go leaders don'tget the luxury of having a bad
day, you just don't.
And that doesn't mean I saythat tongue in cheek, it doesn't
mean you can't make up for it.
It doesn't mean you can'tapologize.
It doesn't mean you can't be ina bad mood every once in a
(06:37):
while.
But on some level as a leaderor if you just want, just for
self-development you want to bea better experience for other
people.
You do have to be a little bitbetter at emotional regulation.
You do have to be a little bitmore energetic and bring the
energy into the room.
I'm all over the place right now, j.
It's reminding me of when youused to train metabolic effect
classes back in the day and youused to teach on this.
(06:58):
Remember you used to teach as apersonal trainer, as a group
instructor.
The number one thing is youhave to bring energy, you have
to project, you have to be big,you have to just demonstrate
authority, because that's howyou influence and move people,
and that was one of the mostimpactful things that stuck with
me.
Now that I teach courses, nowthat I do these workshops, I got
to show up with some energy andbring it, because it's that
(07:20):
contagious.
So that's sort of setting thestage on my side of what I want
to talk about as well.
We contagious, so that's sortof setting the stage on my side
of what I wanted to talk aboutas well.
We're saying the same thinghere, but you, jade I brought
this up because it's funny itfeels like everyone in our life.
We share a lot of the samecircle and everybody in our life
comes to you for help, man.
They're like I'm having a badday, I'm going to call Jade I
joked before we got on.
When I'm having a bad day, Ithink about calling you, but
(07:41):
then I'm having a bad day, Ithink about calling you, but
then I'm like nah, this dude'salready talked to coach 10
people today.
So when it comes to that's sortof what I want to break down in
this podcast, what are theelements of this?
So if we establish, yes, you'rean experience, and your
emotions and your state isreally contagious, how do you
change that state and how do youjust become a more positive
experience?
I would love your thoughts on,yeah, the how, how more positive
(08:03):
experience.
I would love your thoughts on,yeah, the how.
How do we sort of create that?
What if I'm not that Jay?
What if I'm boring?
Or what if people don't reallygravitate towards me, et cetera?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, well, you know, that is why I want to have this
conversation with you as well,because you and I both read
psychology research all the time, and so I'm going to give my
answer and then, of course, Iwant to hear yours as well.
I'm not exactly sure, to behonest, right Like I don't have
like a definitive answer on this, but I have, you know, an
informed, a little bit ofinformed education from just
(08:32):
research.
You know stuff that you and Iknow research on charisma and
research on emotions and otherthings like that.
It also is guesswork, just likeone of the most popular books
that was ever written, like howto Win Friends and Influence
People, that wasn't based onresearch, it was just based on
observation, and so, as we'rehaving this discussion, I'll try
(08:55):
to be as evidence-based as Ican, but I'm not so sure this
lends itself well to that.
Also, I do want to say thisthat statement we are an
experience.
I got that from my friend, roxySafai.
I was interviewing her once andshe said that and it really
stuck with me where she was likeI just see myself that wherever
(09:18):
I go, I can create a particularexperience with the way that I
show up, and so she said that Ichoose to cultivate the
experience that I bring and tobring that experience with
intention.
And then all we're saying nowis saying, well, it's not just
your experience, but it's theexample you set and the energy
(09:38):
you bring.
All of that sort of goes intothat.
And I'll say a couple thingshere that I think what makes the
difference.
Well, first of all, I think andI know many people don't
necessarily share this Forexample, there are many
prominent psychologists.
The one I'm thinking aboutright now is Jordan Peterson,
who I once heard say that hedoesn't think compassion should
(10:02):
be high up on someone's valuehierarchy, or that it wasn't on
his.
And I remember thinking tomyself that blows my mind
because, from my perspective,the people that I think we all
sort of gravitate towards andlove are people who are very
compassionate in the way thatthey see us.
(10:23):
In other words, we don't feeljudged.
So when we don't feel judged,these are people that we want to
go and sit with.
Anytime we feel judged, we willmove away from that and or not
sort of open up to sharinganything.
So I feel like one of thethings is people who don't have
(10:46):
judgment for others, and I triedmy best to do that.
As a matter of fact, I kind ofwas lucky because I have parents
my mother and my father who areincredibly nonjudgmental with
individuals.
So I have two rules that I thinkencapsulate this idea of
compassion and non-judgment, andthat, to me, is number one the
human rule right, whichessentially means that, no
(11:08):
matter what you say to me, Icome at this from a place that
go, all of us humans aredysfunctional.
None of us are gurus.
There's no such thing as a guruin my mind.
If you're a guru and there'syou probably wouldn't need to be
on in human school to beginwith with, because you'd have
everything figured out.
So to me, I go we're all humansand as humans, we all suffer
and we all have dysfunctions.
(11:29):
None of us knows everything.
All of us have something thatwe can offer.
So the first thing is seeingpeople as humans and just being
like look, you're not alone inthis, you're only human.
Something happens when you saysomething to someone.
You're only human.
Something happens when you saysomething to someone.
Let's be like look, you're onlyhuman.
You don't always say it thatway, but you go, you know what?
I have friends that have gonethrough this.
(11:51):
I mean, I see what's happened,it's only normal.
You're not crazy, man, likeyou're not crazy for feeling
this way, right?
That first thing is part of it,right, because and by the way it
establishes over time, when youjust go, I trust that whatever
I show up and tell this person,they're not going to come at me
and judge me.
In a way they're not judging,they're simply just going.
This is a human who's goingthrough a tough time.
(12:13):
And then there's compassion ontop of that, which is sort of
the rule of empathy or the ruleof compassion, which essentially
goes I don't necessarily havean experience, this but I can't
imagine what it must be like foryou, and I can't because, even
if I've experienced the exactsame thing, I don't exactly know
how it's going to be for Danny.
(12:35):
So for me, I think these arethe starting points, right.
And then the final thing I'llsay, and I want to just get your
sense on all three of thesecomponents, this idea of the
human role and this idea of, youknow, sort of compassion.
And the next thing is I thinkit's authenticity.
You know, because I think youknow people pick up on the
(12:55):
energy of inauthenticity, right,like, for example, you say
we're an experience and anexample and an energetic sort of
thing.
You know we bring an energeticexperience and example to the
world.
But if it's an inauthenticenergetic experience and example
for the world, for whateverreason, we humans sniff that out
(13:16):
.
We sniff it out like a dogsniffing out a bone, like we see
it from a mile away, and it isvery off-putting.
Now I don't know what this is, Ijust know I do think it's got
to truly be authentic.
It can't be this thing whereit's like, oh, you're only human
and oh, I can't imagine, andit's not authentic at all.
(13:37):
It has to be sort of heartfelt,and there is some interesting
research out of the Heart MathInstitute that shows that we do
so.
The electromagnetic fields ofthe hearts of individuals can't
do overlap, so theelectromagnetic fields of the
hearts of individuals can't dooverlap, they extend out of the
body and they overlap.
So is it possible that we areactually picking up on that
(13:58):
authentic, heartfelt emotionwhen we're talking to people?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So these would be the places that I would start, and
I'm really interesting to knowhow you see this yeah, I mean,
obviously I come from the nextlevel human school with jay tita
, so there's a lot of overlaphere.
You know, it's funny.
The one thing I wrote downbefore you said I was like, oh,
I'm gonna, I'm gonna add to thisand it's gonna be authenticity,
because I, authenticity is thethird key piece, one because,
(14:25):
you're right, people can sniffout when you're being insecure,
insincere and probably insecure,but when you're being insincere
, for sure they can sniff thatout.
I also think there's an elementof polarization.
When you're authentic, whenyou're authentic, you inherently
are going to be polarizing.
You're inherently going to bedifferent.
(14:45):
You're inherently going to beinteresting to people because
you're not just the same.
What do you say?
Ball games, ball games andburgers.
Ball games, beers and burgerslike that's pretty, that's a
pretty normal cultural levelthing, like and I, by the way,
nothing wrong with that, I loveball games, I love burgers I
love beers I love, I love thetriple threat, but I think if
(15:07):
you can add something that isthat is authentic, authentically
you, on top of that, you canstill.
You can still kind of stand outand I just think that's
interesting to people.
So I actually don't have muchto add.
I I think a lot of my take carelisteners they joke at me
because you get a shout out onevery podcast.
So I use a lot of your material, use a lot of your material,
use a lot of your frameworks.
(15:27):
Obviously, man, we spent somuch time together that it comes
out.
But I do think the authenticitypiece is not just about being
sincere.
It's actually just makes youmore compelling of an experience
too.
Right, if you're just a littlebit different.
We all have a very unique storyand maybe that's where we take
this discussion is the who weare story and how that's sort of
created and the power of that.
(15:48):
I just read Charles Duhigg'snew book.
He's the power of habit guy.
You heard he had a new book out, the super communicators book.
I saw it.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
And I thought you'd be on that way before I am.
I ate that.
I'm about to go through itagain.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
It's up my alley.
I don't know if it's good, butit's good for me.
And one of the things he sayswe all have a who we are story
and when we can really embodythat, that makes us inherently
interesting.
It makes connecting easierbecause we're going to draw in
people who are authenticallylike us and we can slowly build
a circle of friends from there.
So maybe we kind of go into howwe identify the who we are
(16:24):
story.
We can talk about that.
But I think the only thing Iwould add to what you say is
authenticity isn't just beingabout sincere, it's also being
about, yeah, like be be you, bewhat you're into, be not what
you're not into.
Like I don't, like I don't likerock music.
I'll be with a lot of dudesLike I love this rock music and
I I authentically got simplethings Like these are benign
things but little elements likethat.
(16:44):
But again, I'm not really intothat.
Yeah, it's not really my style.
Saying no, I think, is a reallypowerful authenticity tool.
So I don't know, I have a smallspin on what you said.
Otherwise, I'm doubling down oneverything.
Definitely the human rule.
That was the most powerfulthing that you and Jill did for
me back when I moved in with youguys.
I remember I harbored a lot ofstuff I was just ashamed of, I
was just ashamed of, I wasembarrassed about it.
(17:05):
I was like I wouldn't tellanybody and then I would share a
little bit with you guys andyou would go that's so normal,
I've been there, we've all beenthere, and then I would share a
little bit more with you guysand all of a sudden that shame
started to evaporate a littlebit.
And what's interesting, once Ifelt normal.
No-transcript.
(17:38):
It's that Carl Rogers quote thefirst stage of change is
acceptance, or whatever thatquote is.
But I double down on everythingyou say, man.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, yeah, I love the authenticity piece, actually
the next level, human coaching.
When we coach individuals andwhen I train our coaches, this
is the primary thing.
This is what I think peopledon't understand there's never
been another human like you,danny, and like me, jade, and
like you, the listener, ever inthe history of humanity, ever,
(18:08):
nor will there ever be again.
That viewpoint immediatelyopens up an interesting
perspective when you realize Iam solely unique.
Not only am I unique, there'snever been me, nor will there
ever be me again.
And what happens is that's thestarting point.
But as soon as we begin todisavow our story that's the
(18:30):
starting point, but as soon aswe begin to disavow our story,
that becomes a block toauthenticity.
And as soon as we're blockingauthenticity, no one actually
ever gets to know us.
And so I have this theory that,because we're not truly being
ourselves, no one actually evergets to know us.
And I have this theory thatmaybe is not true at all, but
energetically, I think humansunderstand that.
(18:51):
I think somehow they know thatthere's something I'm not being
told and it doesn't quite feelsafe with this person.
It doesn't feel allencompassing, it doesn't feel
real and therefore I'm going tohold back.
I think this is one of thefirst stages, and so this idea
of the who you are story, thisstory we tell, this story, by
(19:16):
the way, is very inaccurate fora lot of people.
And it's inaccurate for a lotof people because they don't
want to share fully or they lookat their struggles and they see
them as something thatshouldn't be, something that
they are out with people orshare with people.
But not sharing your strugglesmakes it look like you don't
(19:37):
have any, makes it look likeyou're not human and you are no
longer relatable.
So one of the things that Ithink I have always done is that
when someone shares with methis human rule and this empathy
rule, the next thing I do andagain, this is stuff that I
picked up from my mother is I dosort of two sort of social
chess moves that you and I wroteabout in Tribe, and to me, the
(20:00):
first chess move isself-deprecation.
Now, one of the things thathappens here is a lot of people
hear self-deprecation and theyhear weakness, especially men,
but it's self-deprecationwithout weakness.
In other words, it's not takingyour power away.
It's just essentially sayingI'm human too.
It's self-deprecating and beinglike I'm on your level, because
(20:22):
we humans, we want our statusto be equal or a little bit
above the next person.
So the first chess movepsychological chess move is I'm
just like you, I also mess up.
And the next one is tocompliment freely and also
(20:43):
authentically, which is tobasically say you are powerful
in this way authentically, whichis to basically say you are
powerful in this way, not in away of blowing smoke or
something like that, and thatallows people to and I think you
said it best it allows peopleto step more fully into their
authenticity.
It's almost like they havefreedom to be more of who they
are and if they see you owningyour story right Like.
(21:04):
One of the things that was thehardest for me is talking about
my affair.
You know my dumb, jock sort ofperiod when I was young, feeling
like I wasn't smart, feelinglike I wanted to hide my anger
or my insecurity around beingbullied by my brother, maybe, or
all the different things that Ithought made me weak.
(21:24):
It made me weak, actually, inhindsight, as I've owned them
one by one over my life.
That is what makes me solid inthe eyes of other people, and I
think when you do this two-partchess move.
Hey, I'm only human, I'm nobetter than you.
And two, you're prettywonderful in these ways.
What that does is allow peopleto step up and be more in their
(21:49):
power.
And I'll say two other thingsabout that.
If we go back to childhooddevelopment and the story of
who's who, the first key needsfrom the ages of zero to six
years old this is very clear inthe research are safety and
security needs.
And if those safety andsecurity needs aren't solid, we
go around looking for thosesafety and security needs, doing
all kinds of dysfunctionalthings, mainly chasing power and
(22:11):
trying to control.
So we all know people who haveto control every little thing.
They're the backseat driver,they need to have everything
planned out or they chase power.
When you don't have safety andsecurity, you start controlling
things and you chase power.
By the way, we all know thisturns people off, right,
whenever someone's trying toalways come over the top with
their power I'm better than youor control situations.
(22:33):
All of us are turned off bythat.
We get wrapped up into theircontrol.
Freak energy, right, and that'san off-putting energy.
And then the next thing is inadolescence we move from safety
and security needs to mainlyacceptance and belonging needs,
safety and security needs, tomainly acceptance and belonging
needs.
And if those things are stuntedin a way, then we chase
popularity and we do popularityseeking and peacocking, which
(22:55):
again is just hey, look at me,look how tough I am, or look how
pretty I am, or look how manyall this materialistic stuff I
have, and again, people seeright through that because they
just go that's a facade, we seeit, we just don't see it within
ourselves and so, again, this isrepulsive sort of energy.
So I do think, when we talkabout this idea and I do think
(23:17):
it's really nice the way youphrase that your who you are,
story or the history of who youare it must be owned, and the
degree to which our copingmechanisms are authentic and
solid and we can help othersfeel safe and secure and
accepted and belonging becausewe feel that way, is the degree
to which people will want toattach to us, because
(23:39):
essentially all they're lookingfor is a model to be like.
You know, am I okay?
And is there anyone in thisworld?
I can actually feel safe beingmyself around and, by the way, I
don't know how all of you allfeel who are listening to this,
but I'm going to say right now Ithink most people don't feel
safe with other people andtherefore they cannot be
(24:01):
themselves, and I think thepeople who make others feel safe
are so incredibly rare thatwhen they're there, they are
liked by a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, that's well put and I think you're speaking to
something we've talked about inthe past.
A lot is kind of lowering yourstatus and elevating other
people's status as well.
We know that status is one ofthe core needs of the human
brains.
We are from back in theSavannah days is one of the core
needs of the human brains weare from back in the Savannah
days.
Status is a big deal.
We're constantly vying andjockeying to have elevated
(24:33):
status and that's why, when weget into a room so often and we
feel like no one's looking at me, no one's paying attention to
me, we have to all of a suddenelevate ourselves and become
something that maybe we're notjust to get out there, just to
be seen.
There's a little anecdote aboutI'm going to butcher this, I'm
not a good storyteller like ourman Ray Hynda, shout out.
(24:54):
But there's this little girl.
It's an anecdote.
This little girl is out tolunch with her dad and the
waiter comes by and goes whatwill you have for dinner, little
girl?
And the girl goes I will haveall of your cookies, please.
And the father goes no, she'llhave chicken and vegetables.
(25:15):
And the waiter goes and looksat the little girl and goes,
looks at the father and sayswould you like milk with your
cookies?
Sweetheart Walks away and thelittle girl is looking shocked,
looks at her dad, goes, she seesme and dad's like kind of like
what are you talking about?
But on some level we're allkind of that little girl.
Yes, I just compare both of usto that little girl.
(25:37):
We all just want to be seen, weall just want to be like am I
important, do I matter?
And that's.
I love that little anecdotebecause it's funny.
You do this with grown adultstoo and just go I see you and
elevate their status just alittle bit.
Now to your point.
It has to be sincere.
You can't be like Jade, you'rean amazing basketball player,
(25:58):
you're the greatest I've everseen.
If that's not the case, right,that's not how you elevate
status.
But you can do it in littleways, like you're speaking to,
by lowering your status, bysaying I've been there too, I've
been through tough times too,I've suffered too, and elevating
their status.
Wow, it's actually reallyimpressive how well you've moved
through this.
It's amazing how you've handledthis.
I'm just so impressed.
(26:19):
That's one of my favoritecoaching strategies to do.
I wouldn't even call it astrategy.
You hear people's stories incoaching and they go through
some hard stuff and justacknowledging like, just so, you
know that's really hard.
I don't even feel comfortabletalking about vegetables and
squats right now, like you'redealing with some tough stuff.
You're kind of in survival modeand you can see their shoulders
come down.
(26:39):
They're like, yeah, I am, I am.
It's to your point about safetyand security.
But I love both of those points.
If you can just make peoplefeel seen and then just elevate
their status a little bit bylowering your own just a little
bit, people are going to want tobe around you to kind of bring
it full circle back to being anexperience.
So I think those tools workingtogether are really powerful.
(26:59):
But that's the essence of it.
Status is a need of the humanbrain.
If you lower yours and elevateothers, people just love being
around you and ironically, theystop fighting.
Like fighting.
Look at me, look at me, see me,see me, look at my
accomplishments, look at myaccomplishments.
They relax and they just kindof become themselves.
So I think that was a reallyimportant point that I wanted to
touch on and I think we can wecan kind of transition into
(27:21):
maybe how to even identify theauthenticity piece.
I think that's a hard part, thatwhen most people talk about
authenticity, people are like Idon't even know who I am.
And I would say there's.
There's really two parts beforeyou can even begin to grow.
One is just self-awareness,which is really hard for people
Like I.
Always I was sort of shit onpersonality tests because if you
(27:43):
take a personality test theyare inherently they're
self-evaluations and we arereally bad at evaluating
ourselves.
So you get something that'sjust not, probably not true and
probably not consistent, becauseif I'm feeling in a good mood
today I'm going to be onepersonality and if I'm a bad
mood tomorrow I'm going to be ina different personality.
So I don't love personalitytests for this.
But first part of the formula isself-awareness.
(28:04):
I think so many people outthere are like I don't even know
myself.
I've been playing this culturegame, as you would call it, for
so long that I feel like I'velost who I am and the who I am
story and what I stand for andwhat I believe.
And I think that's the firststep.
Before you can even get toself-acceptance and the stuff we
were talking about, you have toget to self-awareness and I
think that's really a difficultchallenge.
(28:27):
I remember early on, early 20s,being around you, being around
Jill again, and I rememberthinking like the first part is
understanding what I think andthe second part was
communicating it.
So I went through this wholeprocess where I'm trying to
figure out, all right, whatexactly do I think, what exactly
do I stand for?
That was hard enough.
And then I started saying itout loud and what was in my
(28:48):
brain never came out of my mouthever.
It came out like googlygook andI'm like that's not what I
meant, that's not what I meantat all.
So there's this process ofself-awareness that is.
It's not a light switch, dude,it's sort of.
I love the Michael, I call itthe Michelangelo model.
He has that quote about thestatue of David.
It's like the statue wasalready there.
I just released it from themarble.
That, to me, is how humandevelopment works.
(29:09):
It's not a light switch whereyou just get to flip something
and now I'm self-aware and nowI'm in growth mode.
It's more of a chisel, chisel,chisel, chisel, chisel, until
David is sort of revealed fromthe marble.
So my question on this is sortof again the how?
Where do we begin?
How do we begin thisself-awareness process?
I have a couple thoughts on thematter, but I definitely, if
(29:31):
it's cool, transition into thisdude.
So it's basically we are anexperience, but how do we even
identify the experience that weare?
I guess is the question to stayon theme here.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, well, you know, in the next level human model,
the first two principles thatyou must master are perception
and ownership.
So I'll start there.
So you know, the definition ofbeing like a human being is
being.
When you're being something, itis alignment and thinking,
feeling, choosing and actingright.
So that's your, when you'realigned there, that's your
authenticity.
(30:00):
You can't be unaligned inthinking, feeling, choosing and
acting.
What people don't understand isthey're as they're developing,
though, they focus on being, butthey don't realize that there's
one thing that comes beforethinking, feeling, choosing and
acting Before you can think,feel, choose and act differently
, you have to see the worldaccurately, right.
And if you want to change,you're going to have to see the
(30:20):
world differently.
This is why perception is themost important thing that any
human can master.
So it's perception first.
And, by the way, you said youknow who we are, who you are and
who we are.
Who we are is who we've beenand what we've done and who
we're becoming and what we willdo.
(30:41):
That's who we are Right.
And so if you neglect, if youdisavow who you were and what
you did and what happened in thepast, what happened to me, how
I responded to that you areessentially disavowing your
authenticity and therefore, inmy mind, you can't actually go
(31:03):
forward and be who you'resupposed to be.
Every piece of your story mustbe owned.
Now, it doesn't necessarilymean that it has to be shared,
but I do believe it must beowned, it must be integrated
into you, and that's most of thework of therapy and coaching
comes down to integrating pastthings that people simply are
(31:25):
not able to integrate.
They will blame, they willcomplain, they will distract,
they will deny, they will wimpand they will whine, but they
will not change.
So the first thing is to seethat those things, all those
things that you did, were usefulin what you can now do.
That's the first thing.
If you cannot make that stage,you cannot become your next
(31:48):
level human self.
You will always be stuck in apast self, and people talk about
this authenticity a lot.
To me they get this wrong inself-development.
It's not authentic to a pastself and not authentic to a
current self, but authentic toyour next level human future
self.
But in order to be authentic toyour next level human future
self, you do have to integratewho you were and who you are,
(32:11):
but you can't stay there.
So that's the first thing, andthat all is about perception.
I was then, and with this mix,I am now going to write down,
(32:33):
stamp in the ground, take myflag and say this is who I will
now be.
Out of all the things I'velearned, all the struggles, all
the difficulties, I will now bethis and I will move forward
with this, and that's how youbecome authentic.
And one other thing I'll sayhere is that, to me, one of the
number one things if you reallywant to know what people do,
what they're really doing whenpeople feel safe around them is
(32:55):
it's all about emotions.
It's what they're doing withtheir emotions.
They have emotional integrity,they have emotional regulation
and they are able to useemotional alchemy.
In other words, when you'rearound someone who has emotional
regulation and they're stable,in other words, you're coming to
(33:15):
them with an emotional problemand they can stay centered
without getting emotional back.
That's a person you're going towant to go to, because what
you're doing is you're comingwith a storm and this person is
acting as this giant rock thatthe storm is just ramming itself
against, and they are unfazedand this allows you to feel like
(33:36):
, no matter what I come to thisperson with.
They're my rock, they're mysafe place.
The storm doesn't batter themand that's because they owned
all their past struggles andstuff and they decided who
they're going to be andtherefore their emotions are
their emotions and your emotionsare your emotions, so they are
very emotionally regulated.
(33:56):
That feels very safe whenyou're with someone who's
emotionally regulated.
Think about, in romance, whatpeople say.
Men will say I want a woman whocan nourish me and nurture me.
Women are like I want someonewho makes me feel safe and
secure.
They'll even use terms like Iwant daddy energy.
You hear that around a lot.
Well, what is a strong father?
(34:18):
A strong father is someonewhose emotions are regulated and
you can show up with your stuffand they're just solid for you.
They just show up for you.
Now the final piece is emotionalalchemy, which also means they
can take anger and feel it anddeal with it and not express it
and turn it into motivation anddrive, or they can.
(34:40):
You know, emotional.
There's also this idea ofemotional appropriateness.
You know there's also this ideaof emotional appropriateness.
You know, if you're sad andit's not the appropriate place
to cry, you can handle that, beemotionally regulated and cry
when it becomes, you know,necessary.
So I do think what we're reallytalking about is someone's
ability to emotionally regulate,be an emotional integrity, have
(35:01):
emotional appropriateness andalso be able to alchemize their
emotions.
When we have someone that isjust solid emotionally, we're
like okay, this is my person, Ican always go to them, they're
always going to be there for me.
But in order to have thatemotional control, you cannot
disavow your past.
You cannot.
(35:22):
You have to master perceptionand ownership, the process, in
fact, of going through thesestruggles.
That is the whole process thatgets you to this emotional point
where you're solid, and if youavoid the struggle, you can't
become emotionally solid.
And, by the way, you talkedabout being an experience for
(35:45):
the world.
Well, that's kind of whatemotional alchemy is right.
Once you have emotional alchemy, you wake up in the morning and
you can go.
I feel like shit, or I'm sad,or I've got.
You know, I'm grieving, orwhatever it is, and I go.
I got work to do, though, andso I feel this and I can do this
, and that is an incrediblypowerful tool set that almost
very few humans have.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah, dude, this is great.
Actually, this is perfectbecause I have this workshop
coming up, a small workshop withrelatively new leaders and
managers, and I'm kicking offthis workshop, sort of talking
about perception.
I'm talking about mindsets andI come to five mindsets of
effective leadership essentially, and two of them are exactly
(36:26):
what you're talking about.
The first is that well, let meback up, my big theme is like we
put leadership on the pedestal,like it's fun, that it's easy,
that you just carry all theinfluence and power.
But leadership is heavy man,and it's not fun oftentimes and
it's lonely at the topoftentimes and it's a lot of
pressure and the standards arehigher and all of these things
(36:49):
that are it's a lot of work,like it's actually not all, just
all good, all good all the timeat the top and the leadership
thing.
So I'm trying to flip some ofthese leadership mindsets to be
like, actually it is hard, butbecause it's hard, that's why
it's valuable.
And there's two things that Ithought of.
Two of the mindsets I thoughtof when you're kind of sharing
exactly what you were sharing,and they're right in line.
(37:09):
One is that the leader needs tobe the most certain in the room.
That's a big one.
The leader needs to be mostcertain in the room.
It speaks to that being therock in that when those tidal
waves are coming through.
And when you say be the loudest, I don't mean that you just say
stuff with the most conviction,I don't mean that you just
never make a mistake or neverfail or never apologize.
(37:31):
That's not what it means to becertain.
What it means to be certain isto be the most credible in the
room.
How do you get to be the mostcredible in the room?
Well, on one hand, you have tobe competent, you have to be
good at what you do.
That's just a matter of fact inleadership.
But the other piece of this isthat you do have to be, you have
to have strong integrity.
When I say integrity, I don'tnecessarily mean moral, I mean
(37:53):
more how a civil engineerdefines integrity.
The second definition ofintegrity is to be unimpaired,
sound in structure, like abridge, that kind of integrity
like the rock in the ocean, theway you do.
That is exactly what you'resaying, this emotional alchemy I
just use the word emotionalregulation, but I like alchemy a
lot.
(38:13):
That's exactly what it is beingable to understand, process and
digest emotions in appropriatecontextual ways.
That is so powerful and peoplelook up to that like crazy.
It's exactly what you said.
So I'm feeling encouraged.
I think that's exactly.
I like the rock in the stormmetaphor.
I think that's exactly what itis.
(38:33):
The other mindset I talk a lotabout is the one I started this
podcast, which is that as aleader, your energy is really
contagious.
So I had this boss once shortstint at this marketing agency
and this guy would something big, would go on at the market like
a big deal would happen.
We would lose a big customerand he'd be like no big deal,
we're all good, it's totallyfine.
(38:54):
And then the next day therewould be an email that was like
seven minutes there in the queuefor seven minutes not a long
time and he would burst out ofthe office like a crazy person
and run and be like there's noemails, what's going on, what is
everyone doing?
Just the unpredictable energyof that and what do you think
the office was like?
It was unpredictable, it wasinconsistent, it was a little
(39:16):
erratic and that all fed off ofhis energy.
So being a leader, just being ahuman experience you got to be
solid, you have to be the one,and that's heavy man.
That's really hard.
It's much easier said than doneto do this stuff.
And the last thing that I sortof wrote down that you reminded
me of I was reading about, freudhad the concept of catharsis,
(39:38):
something that's cathartic andwe assume in the West, or in
America specifically, we thinkwell, a cathartic experience
that's like you go into theserec rooms you ever see these
days with like a sledgehammerand you just smash a bus or
smash a TV or it's like justventing.
That's cathartic.
And this guy was JamesPennebaker.
(39:58):
He's the guy the Pennebakerwriting exercise.
If you don't know what that is,you should look that up.
It's a really powerful exercise.
He's a professor at UT and hewas talking about this and he
said but that's not whatEuropeans, that's not what Freud
meant when he meant cathartic.
A cathartic experience isactually what you're talking
about, jade.
It's being able to understandand attach meaning to our
(40:19):
emotions.
So we feel the emotions.
It's not just about expressingthem, it's about understanding
them, it's about processing them, it's about attaching them to
our past, attaching to our story, attaching to our future
purpose.
So a cathartic experience isnot just an outpour.
It's actually more like apuzzle.
It's when you take the emotionand you match it with the
appropriate information.
That's what a really powerfulcathartic experience is, which
(40:41):
does make us feel better and ismore growth oriented.
So I thought that was a littletidbit to share on top of what
you were talking about as well.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Yeah, I like that a lot and I also think you know
we're talking about emotions andthis whole idea.
I think we also get emotionswrong when we talk about them.
You know, I don't think andthis is sort of even in the
space where you know you getinto this male, female ways of
you know dealing with emotionsand a lot of women will say,
well, the man's not vulnerableenough or he needs to express
(41:08):
his emotions more.
And a lot of men will pin beingemotionally volatile on women.
And the interesting thing isyou'll find men and women who
both have this really figuredout.
Well, and when you have itfigured out emotionally, what
ends up happening is theseindividuals will feel an emotion
but do not have to express theemotion.
And I think we get that wrong.
(41:30):
Right, we think, because wefeel an emotion, that it
automatically needs to beexpressed, and it's not always
appropriate to express anemotion in a particular way.
But they will eventually let itout.
But I think what you're talkingabout it's far more nuanced.
You know you don't just feelsad and then break down crying.
You got certain things to do.
(41:51):
The example I like to use islike a warrior in battle right,
if they're fighting the battle.
That's the task at hand.
It's not appropriate to cry atthat point, Like, let's say, you
see your buddy fall, right, youdon't cry there, otherwise
you're going to fall or more ofyour buddies are going to fall.
So what you have to do is youhave to stay focused on the job
at hand.
Now, when the battle's over,now it's appropriate to cry.
(42:14):
We don't have this nuanced sortof discussion, and I do think
that the individuals we go tothat we trust, are the ones who
are most in control of theiremotional states Not suppressing
their emotional states, but incontrol of their emotional
states.
They get to decide whether it'sappropriate for that emotion to
(42:37):
be sort of expressed.
And individuals who don't haveemotional regulation are
oftentimes stiff-armed by manypeople their friends, their
family, their work, et ceteraand we don't know why.
But that's why Someone needs todo an entire course.
Well, we do.
You know Next Level Human.
We do the coaching on this.
(42:57):
We teach you how to regulateyour emotions.
But there should be, you know,this stuff should be taught in
elementary school, right?
Then you know, like, how todeal with emotions.
Emotions are meant to be felt,not lived.
People get stuck in theiremotions and they get controlled
by their emotions.
So now you're stuck in anemotion and you're controlled by
an emotion.
This is not being vulnerable.
This is not healthy.
(43:19):
What you want to be is you wantto be able to freely express
your emotions when it isappropriate and to control them
and not suppress them at anystate.
I'm not saying take in sadnessand leave it there.
I'm saying take in sadness, bein sadness.
You don't have to express itand when it's appropriate, when
you feel like it's appropriateto do that, you can let that out
(43:42):
.
And, by the way, the degree towhich we have people around us
who will allow us to expressthat is the degree to which I
think we develop even healthieremotional regulation as men.
As you know, how many people wehear this all the time right
now, how many people do youthink would be comfortable truly
with you crying as a man inthis culture, with you crying as
(44:03):
a man in this culture, right?
How many men are actuallycomfortable with that?
And the degree to which webecome comfortable ourselves and
we choose partners and friendswho would be comfortable with
that is a degree to which Ithink we figure this out and get
more healthy with this, but Ido think it does come down to
this emotional state, because ifyou're not emotionally
(44:23):
regulated, you won't be able todo the human role.
You won't be able to do the lawof empathy.
You know what you'll do ifyou're not emotionally regulated
.
You'll think very wrongly butyou'll think I'm not going to
give that to them.
They're going to just take thatand run with it.
This is what people who are notemotionally regulated or not in
their power do.
They don't want to give anyonea compliment because they're
(44:44):
afraid they're going to get thebig head.
But people who are emotionallyregulated, that doesn't bother
them at all.
They also are not too torn upabout people who don't like them
, like that book that you had meread way back the Courage to be
Disliked.
People who are emotionallyregulated have courage, because
think about what courage is.
(45:04):
Courage is fear, this emotionthat you have that could easily
control you and keep you stuck,and the ability to feel the fear
and take a step towards itanyway.
That's courage, right, andthat's emotional regulation.
Now, who wouldn't want courage?
But we're never taught whatthat means and what's the most
inspirational thing that youcould have.
(45:25):
It's courage.
It's courage and I do thinkwhen we bring this experience
and the example and this energyto the world, that's essentially
what we are bringing to people.
We're teaching them.
This is how you have courage,and when we watch someone have
courage, it engenders us withmore courage, and I think that
(45:45):
is really what we're talkingabout it engenders us with more
courage, and I think that isreally what we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Yeah, that's a key distinction.
I definitely am not or was notadvocating that to be a positive
experience, to be that rock inthe ocean that you need to
suppress or ignore your emotions.
It's a bell-shaped curve, right, I think.
For a long time, I think formost of human history probably,
but especially through World WarI, world War II, there was an
issue of emotional suppression.
I've talked to my father aboutthis, who's a Vietnam veteran.
(46:16):
He went to a therapist but hewouldn't tell anybody.
That was very frowned upon toanalyze or assess or learn how
to regulate.
He grew up in the Northeasttough environment, went to
Vietnam.
His dad was a World War II vetand all these World War II vets
in his neighborhood were just sodysfunctional.
(46:37):
They're dysfunctionalalcoholics or they are
excessively violent or it leaksout in some way.
And then you had the 60s and Ithink there was a good
correction where it's like no,it started to become a more
emotionally expressive culture,emotionally free culture, just
live, laugh, love, whateverthose 60s sayings are, and I
think that carried into theself-esteem movement in the 90s,
(46:58):
like be yourself, be expressivehowever you feel is good is
okay.
And now I think we're finallykind of coming over that curve
where the pendulum has maybeswung a little bit too far,
where our feelings are not facts, our feelings are not who we
are.
They are a wave of anexperience that passed through
us.
They can provide us direction.
(47:18):
They're incredibly useful.
That's what you're talkingabout the emotional regulation.
So yeah, I'm definitely notsaying, to be that anchor, to be
that rock in the ocean, youneed to be beyond emotions.
That's not what we're saying atall, but it's interesting.
Now we are in a time where I dothink now people are pushing
that pendulum back the other waya little bit.
Being like, okay, it's gotten alittle out of hand with some of
the evidence with therapy, isactually just excessive
(47:40):
rumination now People aren'tgetting better in therapy and
we're just trying to push itback to the center a little bit
to say, no, definitely beexpressive, definitely,
definitely, process, definitelyregulate your emotional
experience, but bring it back tothe middle, to where it's just
not.
Your identity and your, yourentire code of who you are, have
this, have this balance inbetween.
So I think that's a goodcorrection that you made.
(48:01):
I do have a question for you,sort of, and we can wrap up if
you want, jay, but one questionused to have the.
I'm curious if you still standby it.
And if you still, well, I'llask it and then we'll kind of
see where it goes.
You said the saying that itresonated with me a lot at the
time and still does.
Actually, it's something Ithink about a lot.
You say when you were goingthrough some change process, you
said I will no longer toleratethose who see me as I am not,
(48:26):
nor as I no longer wish to be.
And my question number one isthat something that you still
believe?
And if so, maybe you canexplain that quote, because I
feel like it's been reallypowerful for me.
And then, number two, though,speaking of is it an
overcorrection, is itself-delusion to be like I don't
tolerate people who no longersee me as I wish to be?
(48:48):
So they see me as I am, theysee me accurately.
So is that delusional to belike I know I no longer tolerate
people who see me as I nolonger wish to be?
Speaker 1 (48:57):
I still stand by that saying, but I'll I'll make it
more accurate, uh, for you.
So I don't tolerate people whosee me a way I'm not, a negative
way that I'm not, or a negativeway I no longer wish to be.
Because the truth is I verymuch want to hang out with
people who see me and treat meaccording to my next level,
(49:18):
better self, right, which I'mnot that yet.
So the more accurate way that Iwould say that is I know I will
not tolerate someone seeing mea negative way.
I am not or no longer wish tobe.
I want to be with people whosee me according to my best self
and treat me according to mybest self.
Now here's the part about,about that statement I also have
(49:42):
to hold myself to that samestandard, right?
In other words, I can't seemyself a way that I'm not right.
So that's the other part.
I can't necessarily go.
I am this thing now and Ihaven't done the work to get
there.
So there's a flip side of this.
I will not, you know, seemyself as something that I'm not
(50:07):
willing to actually be Right.
So that's the that's the flipside of this, and think about
that saying the words are chosenvery carefully.
I will not see myself assomething I am not prepared to
actually be, which is, if I'mgoing to see myself a particular
way to protect against delusion, then I must think that way,
(50:28):
feel that way, choose that wayand act that way.
Right, I can't just decide I'mthis way.
We see this a lot, and this iswhere it's delusional, right?
You know, I always give theexample of the American Idol
situation, right, where someonegets up and they sing and they
can't sing worth of anything,but no one ever told them they
can't sing.
And you're like, you'redelusional.
(50:48):
Whoever told you you can sing?
And to me, I think this goes ona lot.
Here's how we know.
This is again why perception isthe critical tool for
individuals, because if youdon't have the skill of
perception, you don't see therepeated patterns, recurrent
obstacles and stuck emotionsthat are telling you you're
doing things wrong.
(51:09):
You can call it if you want toget woo-woo, you can call our
higher self.
Our spiritual selves aretalking to us all the time and
what they're essentially sayingis that pattern, that obstacle,
that stuck emotion, that's yourpattern, that's your obstacle,
that's your stuck emotion.
It's happening to you again andagain and again, which means
you're the problem right, and soto me it's not delusional
(51:32):
because those things correctright.
So to me I go your repeatedpatterns, your stuck emotions,
your recurrent obstacles,they're the corrective forces in
our lives.
As a matter of fact, the humancoaches, the people that I
certify to do coaching.
They are trained to be patternspotters.
That's ultimately what it is.
They go through and seepeople's patterns, because
(51:53):
that's another thing, by the way, talking about people who
people want to go to for adviceand feel safe around.
Here's the thing If you'resomeone who is a really good
friend and you're going to see apattern in someone that they
can't see, the analogy I alwayslike to use is bad breath.
Right, most people who have badbreath aren't going to know they
have bad breath.
You're, as a good friend.
(52:13):
You have to tell them, but youhave to tell them in a way that
is not going to make them feelhorrible about themselves.
The only way they would know isif you know they've never been
kissed, people are keeping theirdistance, people are offering
them gum all the time.
Then they should get a hint.
They have bad breath.
But what's really interesting isthe people.
Who people love the most arethe people who go.
You know there's something Iwant to tell you, share with you
, and, by the way, you know Ihave my own stuff right.
(52:35):
There's the self-deprecationand this and that, but what I've
seen and tell me, if you knowyou can I always say tell me,
tell me to fuck off if you want,because maybe I'm wrong, right,
and I say that and then I saybut here's what I see.
Right, that might be a patternfor you, and what almost always
happens is when it's said withlove and it's said with
(52:57):
authenticity and it's not saidwith judgment, people will have
their emotional reaction to itinitially, but they will always
come back and essentially eitherbe grateful you shared so that
they could check in, or theymight say I don't agree, but
they will always be grateful forthe coaching.
And so, from my perspective,that's how you keep from being
(53:18):
delusional.
Right, you look at yourrepeated patterns, stuck
obstacles and stuck emotions andrecurring obstacles, and you
also have people around you thatare also attuned and aren't
afraid to tell you that's yourpattern, it's not mine, and I
think that's how you do it.
And I don't think most people,most people, don't want to do
that we live in a world nowwhere it's like, if something's
(53:38):
going on in a relationship,you're the toxic one and I just
go.
If you continue to exposeyourself to something toxic,
voluntarily exposing yourself tosomething toxic, then I hate to
tell you this, but you're thetoxic one, because what else is
that?
Then?
There's a toxin over here thatyou keep exposing yourself to.
That tells me you haven'tfigured something out.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
Yeah, I like that distinction man.
I think that makes a lot ofsense to me Because I think that
was the back end of that sayingwas something that I struggled
with because maybe it feltinconsistent, because it was not
the last part of.
I will see myself as somethingI'm willing to be, so I think
that's a really good distinction.
(54:20):
But that's interesting.
So that's something you stilllive by and recommend and sort
of coach people on as well.
That's really cool Okay.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Yeah, there's no question in my my mind, as a
matter of fact, I think that'sthe courage to be this light
thing like never.
You know, I think the degree towhich you have people who see
you as your, your next levelhuman self and not your past
self, is a degree to which youwill be happy and fulfilled in
life, and the degree to whichyou can see other people that
way is a degree to which youwill have friends who love and
adore you.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
Well, put man Put a stamp on the episode Love you,
homie.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Yeah, so I will end this.
Just stay on the line, becauseI want to.
Well, we'll catch up in aminute anyway, but for all you
who are listening in live,thanks for being here and see
you at the next episode.
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