March 29, 2025 • 48 mins
In this episode of the Next Level Human Podcast, Dr. Jade Teta interviews Natalie Pendergrass, who shares her inspiring journey of overcoming chronic pain and trauma through resilience, yoga, and mindfulness. Natalie discusses her experience with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, the healing power of yoga, and the importance of mental health in managing physical pain. She emphasizes the need for proper breathing techniques and strength training for those with hypermobility disorders, and how acceptance and clearing toxic relationships can lead to empowerment and healing.
00:01:25 Natalie's Childhood and EDS Diagnosis
00:08:32 Living with Chronic Pain and Abuse
00:14:50 Discovering Yoga and Unexpected Flexibility
00:21:40 The Power of Proper Breathing
00:28:00 Finding Solutions Through Adversity
00:35:36 Keys to Healing: Mindset and Movement
00:44:05 Creating a Life Beyond Limitations
Looking for a Next Level Human Coach? Get on the waitlist and get access to the brand-new science of quantum metabolism and identity restructuring with Dr Jade and the team.
http://nextlevelhuman.com/human-coaching
Want to become a Next Level Human Coach? Get on the waitlist. Go to: http://www.nextlevelhuman.com/human-coach
Connect with Next Level Human
Website: www.nextlevelhuman.com
support@nextlevelhuman.com
Connect with Dr. Jade Teta
Website: www.jadeteta.com
Instagram: @jadeteta
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the show everybody.
This is the Next Level Humanpodcast.
I'm your host, dr JT, and I'mhere with someone who's become a
close friend of mine, acolleague and a peer, and this
is Natalie Pendergrass.
She is someone who I havedialogued with for quite some
time on social media and we havebecome buds, and her story is a
(00:24):
story that I really wanted toshare with you all.
In fact, natalie and I did thisinterview one time previously
and had the file corrupted andwe couldn't save it.
So we're back finally doing thisagain, and where I want to
start, natalie is, as you know,part of the next level human
work is really about this ideathat, you know, we humans go
(00:48):
through our own trials andtribulations and difficulties
and suffering and learnings, andthe idea is that, for many
people, these things really beatus down and they degrade us to
a degree where we become shellsof our former selves.
And part of what I want tohighlight is, obviously, being
(01:13):
human is not easy.
Going through life is can beincredibly difficult, but some
people seem to go through thisstuff and they have the same,
you know, doubts and fears andpains, as as the rest of us, but
they somehow, uh, use it togrow themselves and enrich,
enrich others and evolve theworld.
(01:34):
And I feel like your story isone of these stories and I want
to highlight these stories and,and you know also, I think the
work that you do is incrediblyinteresting and I want you to
also, you know, share yourteachings.
But why don't you get usstarted on wherever you want to
start?
I know we had this conversationonce before, but once you get
(01:57):
everyone started on sort of yourbackground, sort of what you've
been through in life and howyou've gotten to where you are
and the work that you do, Great.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Thank you, jade.
I appreciate it.
And you're right, I've had manypeople, when they do hear my
story, look at me and say, wow,how are you still functioning,
let alone serving others andsmiling every day?
And I'd have to say, part ofthat is, thankfully, just who I
am.
You know, I don't know how.
Some of us are just fortunateto be born with like that desire
(02:30):
to always push forward and domore where it seems some people
just kind of lose that desire.
But I hope to give that back tosome Because, you know, I don't
know about those listeners outthere, but I'm wondering, you
know, have you ever felt likeyour body was working against
you?
You know, like, no matter whatyou've tried, pain and
(02:51):
exhaustion were your constantcompanions, because for years I
lived with chronic pain,injuries, the weight of trauma.
It all seemed inescapable andthere are many times that I
thought my active life was over.
But you know what if I told youthere's a way to not only
survive but thrive?
You know, I have been workingso hard and I feel like I
(03:12):
finally found it and I am, at 50years old, more active and
feeling better than I ever havein my life.
I feel like I finally resolveda lifetime of pain, because I
can't remember a time, even fromchildhood, when I wasn't in
pain.
So, yes, I'm Natalie Pendergrassand I have spent about the last
23 years helping others tolearn to live better in their
(03:33):
bodies, and it's also been aprocess for myself at the same
time.
So it all started with takingmy first yoga class, which
turned out to be extremelychallenging in some ways, but
also when it came to strength,but also super easy when it was
in the areas of flexibility.
I later became a massagetherapist and continued to
(03:54):
observe how my body was not thesame as others and eventually
became a student, I'm sorry andeventually, through the program,
because I became a massagetherapist, start teaching in the
program and eventually, abouteight years ago, a student that
was also going throughunderneath me.
She mentioned havinghypermobility and said something
(04:15):
about EDS.
I had never heard about ituntil that point and when she
said it I was like what was that?
And she told me a little bitmore about it.
I began researching and wentdown that rabbit hole of
learning and realized I thinkthat's me.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, and tell me what that condition is again,
just for the listener, so theycan understand what that is.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, eds is an acronym for Ehlers-Danlos
Syndrome.
It's the name of two doctors,ehlers and Danlos, who basically
finally put a name to it.
What's interesting isHippocrates had even written
about hypermobility in people,but it's still really
under-recognized, not only inour medical population here in
(04:56):
the United States, but reallyworldwide.
It's really just starting to berecognized.
And not only is it juststarting to be recognized, but
really the widespreadimplications, because when you
have it, you tend to have a lotof comorbidities.
And so, starting to really putthose pieces together and trying
to educate individuals likeyou're not crazy, even if
(05:16):
doctors are telling you thiscan't all be happening to you,
you're too young for this,there's no way you could be
experiencing these things.
No, they really could behappening and we as individuals
need more education.
Families need more education insupporting their family members
and the medical community needsto recognize that this is a
real thing that people arereally dealing with.
(05:37):
Thankfully, it's starting toimprove.
More and more doctors arerecognizing it, but it's still
really a struggle in many ways.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yeah, you know, I'm wondering.
It just popped in my mind Ican't remember Is it Marr fans
or Ehlers-Danlos that PresidentLincoln supposedly had.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I forget.
I think his was Marr fans.
Yeah, yeah, they are verysimilar.
Yeah, there's a lot ofsimilarities, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
But, marr fans, you tend to be tall and have really
long arms.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
That's right.
Yeah, I'm thinking that wasLincoln.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah, and so it's.
You know I don't know where youwant to start with this, but
you know, just to kind of framethis up like you know to me, you
know, I imagine you know you'recoming up, you know you're
saying you didn't have, you know, you know any any time.
And I'm wondering when you wereyoung you said you never really
remembered not being in pain.
So this, this condition wasputting you in pain from, you
(06:31):
know, a very young age.
Interestingly enough, rightthen you find yourself, because
you are hyper flexible, becausethat's partly what this
condition does, you find yourway into yoga and let's start
now, and probably by no accident, but this began sort of your,
you know, healing, I think,journey right.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It did.
It did because, yeah, mychildhood wasn't easy.
I grew up in an abusiveenvironment.
Um, I had trauma so bad that Ihave CPTSD from my childhood and
then other later things.
Um, you know, and I, I I had afamily of.
I was one of six kids in thefamily but I was the only one
that you know like.
I remember dropping from themonkey bars of school and being
(07:13):
rushed to the nurse's officebecause I screamed in pain.
It hurt so bad.
I felt like it broke bothankles.
By the time I get there, theymoved just fine, they just
weren't in place.
I used to dislocate my shouldersfor the fun of it and just tell
people like, ooh, you know, wecan put your finger in here and
they finger go in my shoulder topop it back out, and I didn't
know what I was doing.
But it was entertaining and itwas the one type of positive
(07:38):
interaction I could get.
You know, for my differences Iwould get abdominal pains and
cramps and itchy, swollen lipsand itchy mouth and everybody in
my family and anyone around mewould just be like you're weird,
you're different, leave mealone, I don't want to hear
about it.
You're a drama queen, all thatstuff.
So it was very frustrating andso you know there was all of
(08:02):
that stuff and then and my abuseinvolved a lot of head and neck
trauma too, so I had a lot ofpain from that Then yeah, let's
stop there just for a minute.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
So you know like physical abuse then is that you
know, essentially, as a childyou were beat physical abuse
Like what was that really like?
And you mentioned, you know CP,cp, chronic post-traumatic
stress disorder, CPTSD right?
So a lot of people think ofPTSD.
Chronic PTSD is you know where,you know you take it and it's
(08:36):
like magnifying at times youknow a thousand and people
really can't function becauseeverything in their environment
is triggering them.
So the fact that you weredealing with this means there's
an awful lot of really traumaticthings.
You know capital T traumas andthings like that in your life.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, exactly yeah, ptsd tends to be more of like a
one-time thing happened, whereasthe CPTSD is you can't get out
of it.
It's your daily life.
Whereas the CPTSD is you can'tget out of it, it's it's your
daily life.
And and yeah, it was my dailylife, like from the moment I was
born.
I was not appreciated in myhousehold, felt like I shouldn't
have ever been there and, um,part of my punishment would be
(09:16):
grabbed by the hair and shakenby the head.
So, yes, lots of neck trauma.
Um, eventually, because Icouldn't get out of it and you
know psychology, we tend to heara fight or flight.
Because I wasn't allowed tofight or to flee, I eventually
started passing out and so Iwould pass out and, of course,
(09:37):
knock my head more neck and headtrauma and then just be yelled
at to get up and go through itagain.
So, yeah, it was a lot and thatwas it went on most of my
childhood life.
So, yes, the chronic PTSD.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
And one thing and sorry to interrupt you, natalie,
keep interrupting you, but Ijust want to.
I just want to frame this upfor the listener and I know I
know you get this.
But part of this is this ispart of my hypothesis for all
you listening, and Natalie and Iobviously sort of share some of
this is this is part of myhypothesis for all you listening
and natalie and I obviouslysort of share some of this
viewpoint.
But from my perspective, one ofthe things that next level
human is about is it's this ideathat when these things are
(10:15):
happening and when natalie'sgoing through these events, it's
almost like she's beingconditioned in a sense, right,
so she's having this historical,you know, sort of narrative
that happens in her childdevelopment, her adolescent
development, that's creatingthis sort of conditioning around
you know her mental, emotional,wellness, and she also was born
(10:37):
with this particular conditionin her body.
And from my perspective, there'swhat happens is when we blame,
complain, distract, deny, avoid,attack, or we use these things
that have happened to us or ourconditions that essentially are
sort of our authentic baggage tocarry In a sense.
(11:00):
The solution, always, I havefound, is to somehow try to
integrate that in a way thatmakes sense for our lives.
And so the reason I just wantthem to understand, the reason
why I want them to get a senseof this whole history of you, is
because I feel like the waythat you have integrated this
(11:21):
which, from my perspective, isto heal yourself and then to
teach and pass that on to otherswhich is essentially the full
arc of a hero's journey, and soI just want them to sort of
understand that somehow Natalietook all this stuff, integrated
it in a way that helped her healbut also allowed her to begin
(11:47):
healing others.
And so let's begin to, you know, just continue with this thing.
There's chronic PTSD, there'sthis traumatic childhood,
there's this condition that youknow dramatically impacts the
connective tissue, causingjoints to, you know, dislocate,
causing pain, causing all thesethings, and then you uh, end up
(12:09):
at yoga and this begins sort ofthis in this sort of path.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, and I want to add to that really quick too.
So yeah, ehlers-danlos is agenetic disorder and I have had
genetic testing done to showthat it does run on my family as
a recessive gene.
So it's interesting as, yes,I'm one of six, I'm the only one
who presents with it.
So it's not a widespread belief, but neither is it with
(12:40):
necessarily type one diabetes.
But I believe the two functionpretty similarly, where you can
be born predisposed topotentially have it, but then
sometimes it doesn't always showup until a trauma triggers it.
And I think because I was theblack sheep of the family and I
took all of that where theothers didn't, they were able to
stay on the outskirts.
That's why they don't presentwith it.
So one little difference.
(13:01):
And you know some people haveasked me.
You know, you know how do youfeel about that past abuse now.
And yet you know it's reallyweird to say, but I'm kind of
thankful for it because it mademe who I am and I know that's
got.
It's so weird to say becausewhen I was in it certainly
wouldn't have been asking for it.
(13:21):
I would have wanted to be wheremy siblings were.
But looking back now, I'm sothankful of where I am and how I
am helping people and I amhealthy mental and emotionally
and physically where my siblingstend to be alcoholic assholes.
So that's okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Natalie, let me, let me just reinforce this, because
you and I have talked about thisbefore and this is the thing
that seems so bizarre to me butseems to be the.
What you just said seems to bethe running golden theme in
people who have healed.
It's almost as if the mostdifficult things they somehow
(14:01):
have become grateful for them.
So what you said, right thereis really what I have found that
always blows my mind.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Yeah, it's all in what you do with it.
So I'm glad that I made themost of it.
And yeah, so I had my first son.
I found that I was now over 200pounds.
I, when I was pregnant with him, anytime I had morning sickness
.
I just had to eat to make it goaway, so that wasn't helpful.
With the end, weight gain.
So, yeah, I've never been thatweight and I was like I got to
(14:33):
do something, and running iscertainly not it, I'll break
myself.
So I was so happy and I found ayoga class, very first class I
went to.
I was actually invited to thisprivate yoga class by an old
high school friend and she waslike, oh, it's intermediate
level, but you'll be okay.
And I was like, all right, it'smy first time ever We'll see.
And three significant thingshappen in that class.
(14:55):
First, when we were justsitting and I, you know,
initially started with like, oh,my neck hurts, my neck hurts.
And the teacher starts guidingus to, you know, adjust our rib
cage in a certain way, to adjustthe way we're holding our head,
and all of a sudden I'm likeI'm just in my head thinking, oh
, my God, my neck doesn't hurt.
Are you kidding me, like I cando this and my neck doesn't hurt
.
This is wild.
(15:15):
I was so used to my neckconstantly hurting.
I'm like the simple move and myneck is relaxed.
This is amazing.
So there was that.
Then, pretty shortly after, youwent on to hands and knees and
my arms were trembling and I'mlike, oh, my goodness, I am so
weak.
I'm so weak I can't even holdmyself on hands and knees.
So that was the second thing.
That was like ah, so there wasa good thing, there was a
(15:37):
negative.
But then we get all the way tothe end of the class and we're
in bridge pose.
You know, we're on your back,knees bent, feet on the floor
and we do the bridge pose.
But then the teacher says well,for those of you that wheel is
in your practice, go ahead intowheel.
And I didn't know what she wastalking about, but she gave the
instructor said you know, takeyour hands up toward the sky,
bring them back toward yourshoulders and press up.
(15:58):
And I did.
It was my first day of yoga.
Most people have beenpracticing seven years, couldn't
do it.
And the teacher walks over andstands by me, says and how long
have you been practicing?
And I said today, and how longhave you been practicing?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
And I said today I love this story so much.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
She was like okay.
So we both knew that was alittle bit different and I
continued through yoga with herand I loved it.
It was, it was incredible.
There were also a couple ofdownsides, being that I didn't
understand what was happeningwith my body and let alone my
teacher didn't understand.
So we both enjoyed it.
(16:36):
There were times where you knowshe would stop the class, and I
mean she was a verytraditionally trained teacher.
She worked directly with SwamiRama of the Himalayan Institute.
You know he was studied byscientists when he came here.
Very traditional, so she wouldeven say she's like yoga is not
about showing off.
But I'd like everyone to justlook and see what Natalie can do
, because I've never seen thisin my entire time doing yoga in
(16:58):
person.
And that was when I was indiamond pose, which is you're
kneeling and you go into abackbend and I had my head
between my feet from a backbend.
So everybody look.
And so there was that.
And eventually I worked towardheadstand and I love doing
headstand.
I actually still do them, eventhough I have bulging disc, a
(17:19):
fracture in my neck and multiplethings.
I know how to do them well andsafely.
My neck doesn't bother me withthem, but I was doing headstands
and my back was so flexiblethat one day she said you know,
there's this other thing we doaround the world.
And so I dropped my legs backinto a backbend from headstand
and then the idea is to walkyour feet all the way around.
Well, I got to.
(17:40):
When you get halfway you haveto flip your pelvis.
As soon as I flipped my pelvis,I felt a pop in my back and I
just crumbled to the floor andshe you could tell she was
panicked.
We were both like.
But again I got up and I'm like, I think I'm fine.
It hurt a lot at the moment,but I think I'm fine.
That may have been the moment.
I fractured my low back,unfortunately, so I do have, um,
(18:01):
uh, spondylolisthesis in mycervical spine and lumbar spine,
where the vertebrae aren'tlined up anymore.
But whatever, I survived.
So, yeah, I went from yoga tocontinuing to race bike.
Oh, I got into bike riding andthen racing, because I, as a
(18:22):
child, that was my one escape.
And so, as an adult, when I waslike, okay, what else can I do
outside of yoga?
I wanted something, you know,just to get outdoors.
And I thought I love bikes so Istarted riding bikes, began
racing bikes.
One of my very first trainingrides unfortunately had a bit of
an accident and not only lost alot of skin that was really
obvious.
(18:42):
But as soon as we got back onthe bikes I felt something in my
left thigh that just brought myhand right down onto it and I
was like what is this?
It felt like I had a piece ofslate stone underneath my bike
shorts.
Eventually the swelling andbruising went away and I ended
up with what to me I justthought of as a dent.
I'm like how do I have a dent?
Well, that happened in geez.
(19:05):
It's been over 10 years.
It's been probably 13 yearssince that happened.
Just yesterday I saw anotherorthopedic surgeon and I told
him unfortunately I recentlyagain ruptured my quad again.
It turns out that's what I haddone and it was never imaged or
anything.
And just yesterday, because Ihave ongoing knee and hip issues
due to all these injuries, heactually just barely touched and
(19:26):
he looked at me his eyes wideopen.
He said oh, that you've neverhad imaging of that.
We need to image that.
So I have a 90 minute MRI of mythigh coming up.
I didn't realize an MRI couldlast that long, but we'll
finally know how much quad Ihave left.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, and the interesting thing about this is,
you know, like, the way that Isee this is, I don't I can't
tell you how many people have Iand this is me too you and I
have talked about this like justhave body pains, like you know,
just aching.
You know this hurts, that hurtsoh, now my hip's hurting this
and that you have essentiallydone work, you know, because
(20:01):
obviously you're in a case wherethese things are constantly
happening to you and you'velearned and practiced a way to
deal with this stuff, right.
So I'm curious if you can walkus through what it is you have
discovered and what it is thatyou help people do, given all
your, your challenges, like what, ultimately, if we had to
(20:25):
shortchange this and say, OK,these are the things that I
learned for you, people who have, who do not have, hypermobility
and don't aren't going to getall the things that I've had,
but are still walking around.
You know, for me, I'm likeRockman, like I'm the opposite
of you.
I couldn't.
I could barely bend over andtouch my, my toes.
Yeah, right, and so what is itthat?
If you had to teach us?
(20:46):
What is it that you havelearned about?
You know the way this all works.
What can you share with us?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Sure.
Well, let me just add.
So the way it kind of evolvedwas so I started incorporating
all that I learned in yogathroughout my everyday life.
Because you know, like doingdishes used to make me cry
because it would hurt my neck somuch, I started realizing, okay
, if I tuck my chin, I'll getthe dish, but not look down the
whole time when I'm vacuuming.
It would hurt my lower back.
So okay, what if I'm in warriorpose and use my whole body,
things like that.
So after I went through my yogateacher training, I went into
(21:21):
massage school On the very firstday of our work.
At the table the teacher cameover and said what are you doing
?
And I was like at first mythought was am I doing it wrong?
And she's like I.
At first my thought was am I,am I doing it wrong?
And she's like no, what you'redoing, though no one does on day
one Like, how are you movingyour body?
Like that?
And I looked at what I wasdoing.
I was like I was moving inwarrior pose.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
So to keep you out of pain, right yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
I had learned that when I move in this way I don't
hurt.
So I was naturally doing thatwith my massage day one, without
even being told to do that.
So she was impressed and shesaid we need that every day, we
need that for every class.
So basically, my second day orfirst day of class, whatever it
was I was hired for the rest ofthe program after that.
So when the next programstarted I was there for 45
(22:04):
minutes a week helping studentstheir body mechanics, and so
I've been doing that for over 23years and I've developed this
program where, yeah, we startwith some mindfulness, um, and
then we move into.
It's not only just mindfulness,but really getting familiar with
your body.
So we go inside and really feelhow your body is positioned and
what that feels like to changeyour body position and we go
(22:27):
through um.
The three main components arehead position, the um, rib, rib
cage and torso position, andthen also the pelvis.
So those are the three mainfoundations for everything else
to work from.
We get into core engagement andunfortunately in so many
classes you know people thinkthey know how to engage their
core.
They're on their back, they'reflattening their back to the
(22:48):
floor.
That's not a good way to gobecause you flatten your lumbar
spine.
You can't walk around like that.
That's not a way to function.
So I teach how to engage yourcore and you can still breathe
diaphragmatically and you canstill move, because all three
parts are important together.
And so I help people withbreathing, because breathing a
(23:08):
lot of people don't realize howsignificant the way you breathe
is.
So significant that let mebacktrack a bit.
In 21, I was in a rollover caraccident.
So prior to that I was great atbreathing, so I'd been doing
yoga.
Well, when I fractured my lowerribs, I couldn't breathe
diaphragmatically anymorebecause it hurt to move those
ribs.
So I became a chest breather.
(23:29):
Well, about two years afterthat car accident, and all this
time it took forever to recoverbecause of the hypermobility and
all this stuff.
But anyhow, I starteddeveloping thoracic outlet
syndrome.
All of a sudden I've got nervepain down my left arm and I'm
like.
So I saw my chiropractor, I sawmy pain specialist, I went to
PT, I had trigger pointinjections, I had an epidural
(23:52):
injection.
Nothing was changing it.
And what changed it?
This is kind of funny, but itwas a TikTok video about
diaphragmatic breathing where,unfortunately, the doctor
described how todiaphragmatically breathe
completely wrong.
He's saying put a belly on or,I'm sorry, a pillow on your
belly and push it out, which isnot at all diaphragmatic
breathing.
I want everyone to know thatthat's not how you learn how to
diaphragmatically breathe.
(24:13):
But it was like, oh, I haven'tbeen diaphragmatically breathing
because I fractured my ribs.
The moment I went back todiaphragmatically breathing,
like that nerve pain was goneand it took me a few days of
repracticing.
You know, as soon as the nervepain was back though, I'm like,
oh, I'm chest breathing, go backto the diaphragmatic breathing.
Because when we chest breathewhich is the way we will
(24:34):
naturally breathe when we're in,when we are anxious, we're
dealing with stress, whathappens to our neck muscles?
We have scalenes muscles andanterior, middle and posterior
scalenes that will be recruited.
They start lifting the rib cageup and then they compress the
ribs against the clavicles orthe collarbone and that can
(24:55):
pinch off the nerves itself.
And honestly, it's been sofrustrating to see in different
EDS groups how many people, dueto thoracic outlet syndrome,
have had either their theirsternal I mean an SCM removed, a
scalenes removed or a clavicleor upper ribs removed to
alleviate the thoracic outletsyndrome and I'm like All you
may have needed was to learn howto breathe properly.
(25:17):
And people think I'm crazybecause you know their doctor's
not telling them that theirdoctor tells them they need
surgery.
Well, you know what trips meout?
Speaker 1 (25:24):
about that whole thing.
It's like the fact that peoplestill think an MD and even like
someone like me, an MD knowsanything, literally anything
about how the body moves, iscrazy to me.
Actually, literally yesterday Ihad this conversation with my
mom who's having hip pain, andshe's like, yeah, I'm going to
(25:46):
the doctor and I'm going to havemy hip looked at.
And I'm like, mom, what'd yousay?
And she goes oh well, I guess Ishouldn't go right.
She's like remembering, I'mlike they're not going to, they
don't have tools for you, youknow, they simply do not, and
you know, because they're nottrained that way.
So it's really interesting.
(26:07):
I agree with you.
You see this kind of stuff allof the time.
Just briefly, natalie, howwould you, just briefly, since
you brought it up, how would youtell us to breathe through our
diaphragm?
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Sure, a couple of easy ways to check if you are
and to kind of get that deeperbreath.
One thing I like to do is whatI call a low self hug, so if you
hug yourself, but with yourhands down around your lower
ribs around, the sides.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I'm doing it right now.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, and then there, that's where you want to feel
your inhalations come in.
So as you exhale, those ribsmove together, as you inhale,
they push out.
Yeah, you feel that.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah.
And so when it comes to youknow doctors saying put a pillow
on your belly, yeah, trypushing your belly out to take a
deep breath and like it'sactually not really what you're
after.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
You want to hear the rib, you want to feel those ribs
expand.
The lower rib expand, not thelower belly expand.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Exactly.
It's like when you push thebelly out you're creating a
little bit of the vacuum thatthe diaphragm done it does, but
it still feels like a veryshallow short breath.
When you get the diaphragmgoing it's like, oh, now I can
breathe.
In fact, when I learned how tobreathe diaphragmatically
through yoga prior to that I hadexercise induced asthma and
(27:25):
always had to use an inhaler,even for, like, a fast walk or
running.
I use an inhaler maybe onceevery five years now, like if I
have a bad cold or it's reallycold outside and I'm working on
I might need one.
But otherwise breathingdiaphragmatically takes me past
that, because a lot of thatagain is the upper chest
tightens up but the diaphragmcan still move.
So we, if we can take ourbreath past the upper chest,
expand that diaphragm.
(27:46):
I find that I'm still able tobreathe.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
I'm not saying that that's true for all asthmatics,
but I think for a lot ofasthmatics it could make a big
difference well, and here'sanother thing that, uh, this,
what natalie's teaching us rightnow, for all of you listening,
is that for those of you withanxiety, very similar Oftentimes
, people who have chronicanxiety or go into anxiety
attacks will be breathing fromthe chest, which is triggering
(28:09):
this, these anxiety attacks, andlearning this diaphragmatic
breathing, as well as prolongedexhales, can really help with
that as well.
So it's just, you know,incredibly powerful stuff.
And what's crazy about yourstory, natalie, is that it's
like, it's almost like and Iknow you must just be like Jade
I'm so tired of having to learnthese lessons through, you know,
(28:30):
being in a rollover caraccident or falling off my bike,
or getting my head shook as achild.
It's almost as if it's likelife goes okay, we're going to
hit you upside the head, punchyou in the gut, break your arm
so that you learn all of thesethings.
But it's really interestingwhat you've essentially done,
and I just want to point thisout to people because it's so
(28:52):
incredibly powerful.
Most of us, when we get woundedand hurt and I even will make
this about the emotional painsas well what we do is we sit in
it and we just resolve ourselves.
Okay, I am wounded now and now.
This will be a limitation, andwhat I want you all to see,
that's so powerful aboutNatalie's story that I think she
(29:14):
sometimes misses even inherself because she's in her own
body and in her own story isevery time I hear her speak
about her story there seems tobe this nature in you, natalie
that is like I am going to finda way around this.
There is a solution, I willfind it.
And it's almost as if that'swhat you do.
(29:35):
And these stories are reallyinteresting after the fact,
because listen to what Nataliewas telling us two years to
recover from this car accident,basically right.
And in that time that's goingto imagine the mindset of all of
us sitting in pain and tryingto recover from a rollover car
accident.
Many of us, most of us, thevast majority of people, will
(29:59):
simply have those limitationsfrom that moment forward.
And I just want to point outwhat Natalie's doing is she's
taking these things alreadyhaving severe limitations in her
body from a genetic conditionand already having a lot of this
stuff.
That adds on that we knowemotional traumas and physical
traumas on top of that, and ateach stage, learning somehow to
(30:24):
find a solution that works forher and then, more importantly,
going and teaching others toactually understand what she's
learned.
This, to me, is the epitome ofthe next level human process.
So let's go ahead and begin towrap up, because you know I got
(30:46):
another call coming up, but Iwant you to sort of just
anything that you want to sayabout that or share with us in
terms of maybe you know andwe'll just do this intuitively
Maybe you want to share aboutyou know more of the physical
things you've learned, to makesure you complete the story.
Or maybe you want to talk aboutthe mindset, emotional stuff.
I want you to kind of just walkus through, if you had to leave
individuals who are strugglingthrough emotional pain and or
(31:10):
physical pain, which I feel likeyou integrate so well, where
should they begin?
What should they do?
How should they approach this?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, one of the main , most important things, I think
, is mental health.
A lot of people don't realizehow much our mental health plays
into the inflammation in ourbody and it's the inflammation
in our body that causes us morepain.
And it's kind of like a viciouscycle the inflammation level
goes up, we have pain, so thenwe just kind of get in that
(31:42):
vicious cycle of this is whereI'm going to live, you know,
just in this pain.
So when we can change ourmindset to more of an acceptance
of where we're at which iswhere the mindfulness comes in
and start to see those subtlelike okay, I do have some
control over my life throughthose subtle adjustments, it
makes a huge difference.
(32:03):
So, yeah, I focus on thosethings as well as well, and I
want to touch on how you saidthat I, you know, unfortunately,
like I said, I keep havingthese big things that seem to
smack me in the face to have memake a change, and one of those
was the car accident and I hadautoimmune hepatitis that I'm
now in remission from, butreally big things that helped me
(32:25):
to realize too that there werepeople in my life I had to cut
out.
You know there are a lot offamily members, which is hard
for a lot of people, becausesociety tells us how important
it is to keep your family around.
We grew up with, I know, in myfamily it was like there's
nothing more important than yourfamily.
Your family will always bethere for you.
It's like my family's neverbeen there for me.
(32:46):
My family has been like theworst thing for me.
So learning that through theseprocesses and taking out those
pieces that don't serve me hasbeen huge.
Learning how to live on ananti-inflammatory diet has been
a huge part and again, so a lotof it is just about reducing
inflammation.
(33:07):
And then the other big componentthat a lot of people get wrong
is so many people, when they'rein pain, their muscles hurt,
they want to stretch them, andfor some people, in some
situations, that's a good thing.
Almost always.
For somebody with hypermobility, stretching is not the right
thing.
Almost always it's going to bestrengthening.
It's so funny since learningthat how you know, I would have
(33:29):
neck pain and I used to go tostretching it and it would never
get better.
If anything, it would get worseneck pain.
You'll find me doing kettlebellswings or kettlebell carries.
I'll be doing side planks,things to strengthen and engage
the muscles in appropriate formand shape, of course, and then
(33:52):
the neck pain goes away becausenow the muscles are able to do
the work that they need to do.
So, for hypermobile people weneed to do a lot of
strengthening, but we have to bevery careful in how we do it,
and so that's what I focus on ishow do you move in a safe way
for your body that you don't endup in more pain after the
exercise too?
Because, unfortunately for me,I've even seen many PTs that
made me worse because theydidn't even get it.
They don't understand how mybody moves.
(34:13):
They just say just go and do itand just move.
Well, if I'm not preciselyright, I'll be in worse pain
later.
So, yeah, my goal is to helppeople to understand, in
everything that they do, how tomove better, how to keep their
mental state in a good place, towatch their, their diet, you
know these outside things thatare coming into them and how
those affect their inflammation,so that, yeah, they can go in
(34:34):
and like I do.
I mountain bike, I paddleboard,I ride a Harley, I am I'm
almost never in pain at thispoint where before I was, at the
point where I was almost neverwith without pain.
I mean I used to live beforethe car accident at about a five
to seven and then after the caraccident it was like a nine to
ten on a scale of 10, with maybeI would get lucky if I had a
(34:58):
couple minutes a day that didn'thave pain.
And now I mean when I have painI'm maybe at a five and that
happens maybe a couple of timesa week as opposed to every day.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
So the formula that you gave to like, when I think
about the formula, just gave,first of all, acceptance.
The second thing is clearing,which I think is like and and I
want you all to just hear whatnatalie's saying there, right,
like it's like.
First, it's like you gottaaccept what has happened to you,
like most people just will not.
They'll blame, complain,whimper, whine, distract and I,
(35:29):
by the way, I do it too like nojudgment here, this, but but
accepting that.
Okay, this is where I'm at now,this is what I need to do.
And then this, this reallyinteresting thing, natalie, that
you're bringing up aboutclearing the energetic vibe of
the people around you.
You mentioned to me I actuallyhere's how I see family, and I
think you and I will see it thesame.
(35:49):
I think family is the mostimportant thing that we have
given to us as humans.
But because of the lessons theyteach, and sometimes that
lesson is about, I will nottolerate this behavior and I
will up level, and sometimesthat means I will not be stuck
(36:09):
in this vibe.
And I agree with you.
Some people just miss that.
They allow their family to trapthem instead of allowing their
family to elevate them.
So to me, I would say there'sgot to be gratitude for the
family too, because they taughtyou I don't need you, I can't
deal with you.
But then there's this finalthing that I actually think
mentally and emotionally andphysically strengthening and
(36:29):
building resilience.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople don't understand that
strength exercise is a is astretch with a contract, a
contract with a relaxation.
It is the way the body'ssupposed to move.
And so I oftentimes think now,when I'm always strengthening,
always strengthening, alwaysstrengthening that yes, I need
(36:49):
to go through full ranges ofmotion and when I do that I
don't actually need to stretch.
When I'm just doing resistancetraining, slowly and controlled,
through full ranges of motionand balancing out the different
body parts, I tend to do muchbetter than when I just stretch.
And of course, I'm learning aton now about fascia and all
that kind of stuff, which I know, you, you know all about as
(37:11):
well, and we should probablyhave another conversation about
that.
But I just really love thatsort of three part piece,
because you did it with yourphysical body but I also think
with your mental, emotional body.
It's like acceptance.
Clearing, strengthening, slash,building resilience seems to be
the Natalie formula.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, yeah, thank you for summarizing that for me.
Yes, you're really good at that.
That for me.
Yes, you're really good at that.
I appreciate that and yeah,yeah.
So what I want to do now ishelp people with hypermobility
disorders, chronic pain, pasttrauma, you know move through
that.
I want to teach them how tomove safely, strengthen their
body, manage that pain long termand help them to figure out how
(37:55):
to have more stability in theirbody, gain that confidence to
be able to go and do the thingsthat they want to do.
The ability to stay active,because, you know, I've always
said I don't think I'll everretire, because when you look at
people who say they retire,they sit on the couch and do
nothing.
My retirement will becontinuing to teach, continuing
to mountain bike, continuing toadventure, because I don't want
(38:17):
life to end until I am actuallyin the grave.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I've never understood the idea of retirement, I just
haven't.
But then again, you and I havedone things that we love and are
very purpose-oriented in whatwe do, and I do wish that for
everyone.
And, if you'll allow me, as weend, natalie, I just want to.
You're incredibly humble,incredibly knowledgeable and I
just want to, I want to pitchyou to everybody, right, like I
(38:41):
kind of just want to pitchNatalie to all of you.
If you are someone who's dealingwith body pain and you have
this, your story resonates, herstory resonates with you.
Where there's this confluenceof mental, emotional, deep
mental emotional abuse andtrauma, as well as physical
issues and body pains, I thinkNatalie is your person, she's
your teacher, she's your healer.
(39:02):
I think you, I think you wantto.
There's not an accident thatyou're sitting here listening to
this interview right now.
Please check her out, and I'mso glad we got to do this again.
Natalie, you know you'reincredibly gifted in what you do
.
You're incredibly gifted inwhat you do and I just
appreciate you so much.
Before we go, why don't youtell them where they can find
(39:24):
you if they want and need helpor want to get some of your
teachings?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Sure.
On Instagram you can find me athyperstrong underscore method
and on Facebook you can find meat Sacred Spirit Body Works so
Sacred.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Spirit Body Works or Hyper Strong Method.
Yeah Well, thank you so much,my friend.
I got to run but go ahead andstay on the line real quick, so
you and I will say a quickgoodbye because I want to make
sure this all uploads.
But for all of you, thank youfor hanging out with Natalie and
I on the podcast and we willsee you at the next episode.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Thank you.
Welcome to the show everybody.
This is the Next Level Humanpodcast.
I'm your host, dr JT, and I'mhere with someone who's become a
close friend of mine, acolleague and a peer, and this
is Natalie Pendergrass.
She is someone who I havedialogued with for quite some
time on social media and we havebecome buds, and her story is a
(00:24):
story that I really wanted toshare with you all.
In fact, natalie and I did thisinterview one time previously
and had the file corrupted andwe couldn't save it.
So we're back finally doing thisagain, and where I want to
start, natalie is, as you know,part of the next level human
work is really about this ideathat, you know, we humans go
(00:48):
through our own trials andtribulations and difficulties
and suffering and learnings, andthe idea is that, for many
people, these things really beatus down and they degrade us to
a degree where we become shellsof our former selves.
And part of what I want tohighlight is, obviously, being
(01:13):
human is not easy.
Going through life is can beincredibly difficult, but some
people seem to go through thisstuff and they have the same,
you know, doubts and fears andpains, as as the rest of us, but
they somehow, uh, use it togrow themselves and enrich,
enrich others and evolve theworld.
(01:34):
And I feel like your story isone of these stories and I want
to highlight these stories and,and you know also, I think the
work that you do is incrediblyinteresting and I want you to
also, you know, share yourteachings.
But why don't you get usstarted on wherever you want to
start?
I know we had this conversationonce before, but once you get
(01:57):
everyone started on sort of yourbackground, sort of what you've
been through in life and howyou've gotten to where you are
and the work that you do, Great.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Thank you, jade.
I appreciate it.
And you're right, I've had manypeople, when they do hear my
story, look at me and say, wow,how are you still functioning,
let alone serving others andsmiling every day?
And I'd have to say, part ofthat is, thankfully, just who I
am.
You know, I don't know how.
Some of us are just fortunateto be born with like that desire
(02:30):
to always push forward and domore where it seems some people
just kind of lose that desire.
But I hope to give that back tosome Because, you know, I don't
know about those listeners outthere, but I'm wondering, you
know, have you ever felt likeyour body was working against
you?
You know, like, no matter whatyou've tried, pain and
(02:51):
exhaustion were your constantcompanions, because for years I
lived with chronic pain,injuries, the weight of trauma.
It all seemed inescapable andthere are many times that I
thought my active life was over.
But you know what if I told youthere's a way to not only
survive but thrive?
You know, I have been workingso hard and I feel like I
(03:12):
finally found it and I am, at 50years old, more active and
feeling better than I ever havein my life.
I feel like I finally resolveda lifetime of pain, because I
can't remember a time, even fromchildhood, when I wasn't in
pain.
So, yes, I'm Natalie Pendergrassand I have spent about the last
23 years helping others tolearn to live better in their
(03:33):
bodies, and it's also been aprocess for myself at the same
time.
So it all started with takingmy first yoga class, which
turned out to be extremelychallenging in some ways, but
also when it came to strength,but also super easy when it was
in the areas of flexibility.
I later became a massagetherapist and continued to
(03:54):
observe how my body was not thesame as others and eventually
became a student, I'm sorry andeventually, through the program,
because I became a massagetherapist, start teaching in the
program and eventually, abouteight years ago, a student that
was also going throughunderneath me.
She mentioned havinghypermobility and said something
(04:15):
about EDS.
I had never heard about ituntil that point and when she
said it I was like what was that?
And she told me a little bitmore about it.
I began researching and wentdown that rabbit hole of
learning and realized I thinkthat's me.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, and tell me what that condition is again,
just for the listener, so theycan understand what that is.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, eds is an acronym for Ehlers-Danlos
Syndrome.
It's the name of two doctors,ehlers and Danlos, who basically
finally put a name to it.
What's interesting isHippocrates had even written
about hypermobility in people,but it's still really
under-recognized, not only inour medical population here in
(04:56):
the United States, but reallyworldwide.
It's really just starting to berecognized.
And not only is it juststarting to be recognized, but
really the widespreadimplications, because when you
have it, you tend to have a lotof comorbidities.
And so, starting to really putthose pieces together and trying
to educate individuals likeyou're not crazy, even if
(05:16):
doctors are telling you thiscan't all be happening to you,
you're too young for this,there's no way you could be
experiencing these things.
No, they really could behappening and we as individuals
need more education.
Families need more education insupporting their family members
and the medical community needsto recognize that this is a
real thing that people arereally dealing with.
(05:37):
Thankfully, it's starting toimprove.
More and more doctors arerecognizing it, but it's still
really a struggle in many ways.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yeah, you know, I'm wondering.
It just popped in my mind Ican't remember Is it Marr fans
or Ehlers-Danlos that PresidentLincoln supposedly had.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I forget.
I think his was Marr fans.
Yeah, yeah, they are verysimilar.
Yeah, there's a lot ofsimilarities, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
But, marr fans, you tend to be tall and have really
long arms.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
That's right.
Yeah, I'm thinking that wasLincoln.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah, and so it's.
You know I don't know where youwant to start with this, but
you know, just to kind of framethis up like you know to me, you
know, I imagine you know you'recoming up, you know you're
saying you didn't have, you know, you know any any time.
And I'm wondering when you wereyoung you said you never really
remembered not being in pain.
So this, this condition wasputting you in pain from, you
(06:31):
know, a very young age.
Interestingly enough, rightthen you find yourself, because
you are hyper flexible, becausethat's partly what this
condition does, you find yourway into yoga and let's start
now, and probably by no accident, but this began sort of your,
you know, healing, I think,journey right.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It did.
It did because, yeah, mychildhood wasn't easy.
I grew up in an abusiveenvironment.
Um, I had trauma so bad that Ihave CPTSD from my childhood and
then other later things.
Um, you know, and I, I I had afamily of.
I was one of six kids in thefamily but I was the only one
that you know like.
I remember dropping from themonkey bars of school and being
(07:13):
rushed to the nurse's officebecause I screamed in pain.
It hurt so bad.
I felt like it broke bothankles.
By the time I get there, theymoved just fine, they just
weren't in place.
I used to dislocate my shouldersfor the fun of it and just tell
people like, ooh, you know, wecan put your finger in here and
they finger go in my shoulder topop it back out, and I didn't
know what I was doing.
But it was entertaining and itwas the one type of positive
(07:38):
interaction I could get.
You know, for my differences Iwould get abdominal pains and
cramps and itchy, swollen lipsand itchy mouth and everybody in
my family and anyone around mewould just be like you're weird,
you're different, leave mealone, I don't want to hear
about it.
You're a drama queen, all thatstuff.
So it was very frustrating andso you know there was all of
(08:02):
that stuff and then and my abuseinvolved a lot of head and neck
trauma too, so I had a lot ofpain from that Then yeah, let's
stop there just for a minute.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
So you know like physical abuse then is that you
know, essentially, as a childyou were beat physical abuse
Like what was that really like?
And you mentioned, you know CP,cp, chronic post-traumatic
stress disorder, CPTSD right?
So a lot of people think ofPTSD.
Chronic PTSD is you know where,you know you take it and it's
(08:36):
like magnifying at times youknow a thousand and people
really can't function becauseeverything in their environment
is triggering them.
So the fact that you weredealing with this means there's
an awful lot of really traumaticthings.
You know capital T traumas andthings like that in your life.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, exactly yeah, ptsd tends to be more of like a
one-time thing happened, whereasthe CPTSD is you can't get out
of it.
It's your daily life.
Whereas the CPTSD is you can'tget out of it, it's it's your
daily life.
And and yeah, it was my dailylife, like from the moment I was
born.
I was not appreciated in myhousehold, felt like I shouldn't
have ever been there and, um,part of my punishment would be
(09:16):
grabbed by the hair and shakenby the head.
So, yes, lots of neck trauma.
Um, eventually, because Icouldn't get out of it and you
know psychology, we tend to heara fight or flight.
Because I wasn't allowed tofight or to flee, I eventually
started passing out and so Iwould pass out and, of course,
(09:37):
knock my head more neck and headtrauma and then just be yelled
at to get up and go through itagain.
So, yeah, it was a lot and thatwas it went on most of my
childhood life.
So, yes, the chronic PTSD.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
And one thing and sorry to interrupt you, natalie,
keep interrupting you, but Ijust want to.
I just want to frame this upfor the listener and I know I
know you get this.
But part of this is this ispart of my hypothesis for all
you listening, and Natalie and Iobviously sort of share some of
this is this is part of myhypothesis for all you listening
and natalie and I obviouslysort of share some of this
viewpoint.
But from my perspective, one ofthe things that next level
human is about is it's this ideathat when these things are
(10:15):
happening and when natalie'sgoing through these events, it's
almost like she's beingconditioned in a sense, right,
so she's having this historical,you know, sort of narrative
that happens in her childdevelopment, her adolescent
development, that's creatingthis sort of conditioning around
you know her mental, emotional,wellness, and she also was born
(10:37):
with this particular conditionin her body.
And from my perspective, there'swhat happens is when we blame,
complain, distract, deny, avoid,attack, or we use these things
that have happened to us or ourconditions that essentially are
sort of our authentic baggage tocarry In a sense.
(11:00):
The solution, always, I havefound, is to somehow try to
integrate that in a way thatmakes sense for our lives.
And so the reason I just wantthem to understand, the reason
why I want them to get a senseof this whole history of you, is
because I feel like the waythat you have integrated this
(11:21):
which, from my perspective, isto heal yourself and then to
teach and pass that on to otherswhich is essentially the full
arc of a hero's journey, and soI just want them to sort of
understand that somehow Natalietook all this stuff, integrated
it in a way that helped her healbut also allowed her to begin
(11:47):
healing others.
And so let's begin to, you know, just continue with this thing.
There's chronic PTSD, there'sthis traumatic childhood,
there's this condition that youknow dramatically impacts the
connective tissue, causingjoints to, you know, dislocate,
causing pain, causing all thesethings, and then you uh, end up
(12:09):
at yoga and this begins sort ofthis in this sort of path.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, and I want to add to that really quick too.
So yeah, ehlers-danlos is agenetic disorder and I have had
genetic testing done to showthat it does run on my family as
a recessive gene.
So it's interesting as, yes,I'm one of six, I'm the only one
who presents with it.
So it's not a widespread belief, but neither is it with
(12:40):
necessarily type one diabetes.
But I believe the two functionpretty similarly, where you can
be born predisposed topotentially have it, but then
sometimes it doesn't always showup until a trauma triggers it.
And I think because I was theblack sheep of the family and I
took all of that where theothers didn't, they were able to
stay on the outskirts.
That's why they don't presentwith it.
So one little difference.
(13:01):
And you know some people haveasked me.
You know, you know how do youfeel about that past abuse now.
And yet you know it's reallyweird to say, but I'm kind of
thankful for it because it mademe who I am and I know that's
got.
It's so weird to say becausewhen I was in it certainly
wouldn't have been asking for it.
(13:21):
I would have wanted to be wheremy siblings were.
But looking back now, I'm sothankful of where I am and how I
am helping people and I amhealthy mental and emotionally
and physically where my siblingstend to be alcoholic assholes.
So that's okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Natalie, let me, let me just reinforce this, because
you and I have talked about thisbefore and this is the thing
that seems so bizarre to me butseems to be the.
What you just said seems to bethe running golden theme in
people who have healed.
It's almost as if the mostdifficult things they somehow
(14:01):
have become grateful for them.
So what you said, right thereis really what I have found that
always blows my mind.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Yeah, it's all in what you do with it.
So I'm glad that I made themost of it.
And yeah, so I had my first son.
I found that I was now over 200pounds.
I, when I was pregnant with him, anytime I had morning sickness
.
I just had to eat to make it goaway, so that wasn't helpful.
With the end, weight gain.
So, yeah, I've never been thatweight and I was like I got to
(14:33):
do something, and running iscertainly not it, I'll break
myself.
So I was so happy and I found ayoga class, very first class I
went to.
I was actually invited to thisprivate yoga class by an old
high school friend and she waslike, oh, it's intermediate
level, but you'll be okay.
And I was like, all right, it'smy first time ever We'll see.
And three significant thingshappen in that class.
(14:55):
First, when we were justsitting and I, you know,
initially started with like, oh,my neck hurts, my neck hurts.
And the teacher starts guidingus to, you know, adjust our rib
cage in a certain way, to adjustthe way we're holding our head,
and all of a sudden I'm likeI'm just in my head thinking, oh
, my God, my neck doesn't hurt.
Are you kidding me, like I cando this and my neck doesn't hurt
.
This is wild.
(15:15):
I was so used to my neckconstantly hurting.
I'm like the simple move and myneck is relaxed.
This is amazing.
So there was that.
Then, pretty shortly after, youwent on to hands and knees and
my arms were trembling and I'mlike, oh, my goodness, I am so
weak.
I'm so weak I can't even holdmyself on hands and knees.
So that was the second thing.
That was like ah, so there wasa good thing, there was a
(15:37):
negative.
But then we get all the way tothe end of the class and we're
in bridge pose.
You know, we're on your back,knees bent, feet on the floor
and we do the bridge pose.
But then the teacher says well,for those of you that wheel is
in your practice, go ahead intowheel.
And I didn't know what she wastalking about, but she gave the
instructor said you know, takeyour hands up toward the sky,
bring them back toward yourshoulders and press up.
(15:58):
And I did.
It was my first day of yoga.
Most people have beenpracticing seven years, couldn't
do it.
And the teacher walks over andstands by me, says and how long
have you been practicing?
And I said today, and how longhave you been practicing?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
And I said today I love this story so much.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
She was like okay.
So we both knew that was alittle bit different and I
continued through yoga with herand I loved it.
It was, it was incredible.
There were also a couple ofdownsides, being that I didn't
understand what was happeningwith my body and let alone my
teacher didn't understand.
So we both enjoyed it.
(16:36):
There were times where you knowshe would stop the class, and I
mean she was a verytraditionally trained teacher.
She worked directly with SwamiRama of the Himalayan Institute.
You know he was studied byscientists when he came here.
Very traditional, so she wouldeven say she's like yoga is not
about showing off.
But I'd like everyone to justlook and see what Natalie can do
, because I've never seen thisin my entire time doing yoga in
(16:58):
person.
And that was when I was indiamond pose, which is you're
kneeling and you go into abackbend and I had my head
between my feet from a backbend.
So everybody look.
And so there was that.
And eventually I worked towardheadstand and I love doing
headstand.
I actually still do them, eventhough I have bulging disc, a
(17:19):
fracture in my neck and multiplethings.
I know how to do them well andsafely.
My neck doesn't bother me withthem, but I was doing headstands
and my back was so flexiblethat one day she said you know,
there's this other thing we doaround the world.
And so I dropped my legs backinto a backbend from headstand
and then the idea is to walkyour feet all the way around.
Well, I got to.
(17:40):
When you get halfway you haveto flip your pelvis.
As soon as I flipped my pelvis,I felt a pop in my back and I
just crumbled to the floor andshe you could tell she was
panicked.
We were both like.
But again I got up and I'm like, I think I'm fine.
It hurt a lot at the moment,but I think I'm fine.
That may have been the moment.
I fractured my low back,unfortunately, so I do have, um,
(18:01):
uh, spondylolisthesis in mycervical spine and lumbar spine,
where the vertebrae aren'tlined up anymore.
But whatever, I survived.
So, yeah, I went from yoga tocontinuing to race bike.
Oh, I got into bike riding andthen racing, because I, as a
(18:22):
child, that was my one escape.
And so, as an adult, when I waslike, okay, what else can I do
outside of yoga?
I wanted something, you know,just to get outdoors.
And I thought I love bikes so Istarted riding bikes, began
racing bikes.
One of my very first trainingrides unfortunately had a bit of
an accident and not only lost alot of skin that was really
obvious.
(18:42):
But as soon as we got back onthe bikes I felt something in my
left thigh that just brought myhand right down onto it and I
was like what is this?
It felt like I had a piece ofslate stone underneath my bike
shorts.
Eventually the swelling andbruising went away and I ended
up with what to me I justthought of as a dent.
I'm like how do I have a dent?
Well, that happened in geez.
(19:05):
It's been over 10 years.
It's been probably 13 yearssince that happened.
Just yesterday I saw anotherorthopedic surgeon and I told
him unfortunately I recentlyagain ruptured my quad again.
It turns out that's what I haddone and it was never imaged or
anything.
And just yesterday, because Ihave ongoing knee and hip issues
due to all these injuries, heactually just barely touched and
(19:26):
he looked at me his eyes wideopen.
He said oh, that you've neverhad imaging of that.
We need to image that.
So I have a 90 minute MRI of mythigh coming up.
I didn't realize an MRI couldlast that long, but we'll
finally know how much quad Ihave left.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, and the interesting thing about this is,
you know, like, the way that Isee this is, I don't I can't
tell you how many people have Iand this is me too you and I
have talked about this like justhave body pains, like you know,
just aching.
You know this hurts, that hurtsoh, now my hip's hurting this
and that you have essentiallydone work, you know, because
(20:01):
obviously you're in a case wherethese things are constantly
happening to you and you'velearned and practiced a way to
deal with this stuff, right.
So I'm curious if you can walkus through what it is you have
discovered and what it is thatyou help people do, given all
your, your challenges, like what, ultimately, if we had to
(20:25):
shortchange this and say, OK,these are the things that I
learned for you, people who have, who do not have, hypermobility
and don't aren't going to getall the things that I've had,
but are still walking around.
You know, for me, I'm likeRockman, like I'm the opposite
of you.
I couldn't.
I could barely bend over andtouch my, my toes.
Yeah, right, and so what is itthat?
If you had to teach us?
(20:46):
What is it that you havelearned about?
You know the way this all works.
What can you share with us?
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Sure.
Well, let me just add.
So the way it kind of evolvedwas so I started incorporating
all that I learned in yogathroughout my everyday life.
Because you know, like doingdishes used to make me cry
because it would hurt my neck somuch, I started realizing, okay
, if I tuck my chin, I'll getthe dish, but not look down the
whole time when I'm vacuuming.
It would hurt my lower back.
So okay, what if I'm in warriorpose and use my whole body,
things like that.
So after I went through my yogateacher training, I went into
(21:21):
massage school On the very firstday of our work.
At the table the teacher cameover and said what are you doing
?
And I was like at first mythought was am I doing it wrong?
And she's like I.
At first my thought was am I,am I doing it wrong?
And she's like no, what you'redoing, though no one does on day
one Like, how are you movingyour body?
Like that?
And I looked at what I wasdoing.
I was like I was moving inwarrior pose.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
So to keep you out of pain, right yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
I had learned that when I move in this way I don't
hurt.
So I was naturally doing thatwith my massage day one, without
even being told to do that.
So she was impressed and shesaid we need that every day, we
need that for every class.
So basically, my second day orfirst day of class, whatever it
was I was hired for the rest ofthe program after that.
So when the next programstarted I was there for 45
(22:04):
minutes a week helping studentstheir body mechanics, and so
I've been doing that for over 23years and I've developed this
program where, yeah, we startwith some mindfulness, um, and
then we move into.
It's not only just mindfulness,but really getting familiar with
your body.
So we go inside and really feelhow your body is positioned and
what that feels like to changeyour body position and we go
(22:27):
through um.
The three main components arehead position, the um, rib, rib
cage and torso position, andthen also the pelvis.
So those are the three mainfoundations for everything else
to work from.
We get into core engagement andunfortunately in so many
classes you know people thinkthey know how to engage their
core.
They're on their back, they'reflattening their back to the
(22:48):
floor.
That's not a good way to gobecause you flatten your lumbar
spine.
You can't walk around like that.
That's not a way to function.
So I teach how to engage yourcore and you can still breathe
diaphragmatically and you canstill move, because all three
parts are important together.
And so I help people withbreathing, because breathing a
(23:08):
lot of people don't realize howsignificant the way you breathe
is.
So significant that let mebacktrack a bit.
In 21, I was in a rollover caraccident.
So prior to that I was great atbreathing, so I'd been doing
yoga.
Well, when I fractured my lowerribs, I couldn't breathe
diaphragmatically anymorebecause it hurt to move those
ribs.
So I became a chest breather.
(23:29):
Well, about two years afterthat car accident, and all this
time it took forever to recoverbecause of the hypermobility and
all this stuff.
But anyhow, I starteddeveloping thoracic outlet
syndrome.
All of a sudden I've got nervepain down my left arm and I'm
like.
So I saw my chiropractor, I sawmy pain specialist, I went to
PT, I had trigger pointinjections, I had an epidural
(23:52):
injection.
Nothing was changing it.
And what changed it?
This is kind of funny, but itwas a TikTok video about
diaphragmatic breathing where,unfortunately, the doctor
described how todiaphragmatically breathe
completely wrong.
He's saying put a belly on or,I'm sorry, a pillow on your
belly and push it out, which isnot at all diaphragmatic
breathing.
I want everyone to know thatthat's not how you learn how to
diaphragmatically breathe.
(24:13):
But it was like, oh, I haven'tbeen diaphragmatically breathing
because I fractured my ribs.
The moment I went back todiaphragmatically breathing,
like that nerve pain was goneand it took me a few days of
repracticing.
You know, as soon as the nervepain was back though, I'm like,
oh, I'm chest breathing, go backto the diaphragmatic breathing.
Because when we chest breathewhich is the way we will
(24:34):
naturally breathe when we're in,when we are anxious, we're
dealing with stress, whathappens to our neck muscles?
We have scalenes muscles andanterior, middle and posterior
scalenes that will be recruited.
They start lifting the rib cageup and then they compress the
ribs against the clavicles orthe collarbone and that can
(24:55):
pinch off the nerves itself.
And honestly, it's been sofrustrating to see in different
EDS groups how many people, dueto thoracic outlet syndrome,
have had either their theirsternal I mean an SCM removed, a
scalenes removed or a clavicleor upper ribs removed to
alleviate the thoracic outletsyndrome and I'm like All you
may have needed was to learn howto breathe properly.
(25:17):
And people think I'm crazybecause you know their doctor's
not telling them that theirdoctor tells them they need
surgery.
Well, you know what trips meout?
Speaker 1 (25:24):
about that whole thing.
It's like the fact that peoplestill think an MD and even like
someone like me, an MD knowsanything, literally anything
about how the body moves, iscrazy to me.
Actually, literally yesterday Ihad this conversation with my
mom who's having hip pain, andshe's like, yeah, I'm going to
(25:46):
the doctor and I'm going to havemy hip looked at.
And I'm like, mom, what'd yousay?
And she goes oh well, I guess Ishouldn't go right.
She's like remembering, I'mlike they're not going to, they
don't have tools for you, youknow, they simply do not, and
you know, because they're nottrained that way.
So it's really interesting.
(26:07):
I agree with you.
You see this kind of stuff allof the time.
Just briefly, natalie, howwould you, just briefly, since
you brought it up, how would youtell us to breathe through our
diaphragm?
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Sure, a couple of easy ways to check if you are
and to kind of get that deeperbreath.
One thing I like to do is whatI call a low self hug, so if you
hug yourself, but with yourhands down around your lower
ribs around, the sides.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I'm doing it right now.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, and then there, that's where you want to feel
your inhalations come in.
So as you exhale, those ribsmove together, as you inhale,
they push out.
Yeah, you feel that.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah.
And so when it comes to youknow doctors saying put a pillow
on your belly, yeah, trypushing your belly out to take a
deep breath and like it'sactually not really what you're
after.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
You want to hear the rib, you want to feel those ribs
expand.
The lower rib expand, not thelower belly expand.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Exactly.
It's like when you push thebelly out you're creating a
little bit of the vacuum thatthe diaphragm done it does, but
it still feels like a veryshallow short breath.
When you get the diaphragmgoing it's like, oh, now I can
breathe.
In fact, when I learned how tobreathe diaphragmatically
through yoga prior to that I hadexercise induced asthma and
(27:25):
always had to use an inhaler,even for, like, a fast walk or
running.
I use an inhaler maybe onceevery five years now, like if I
have a bad cold or it's reallycold outside and I'm working on
I might need one.
But otherwise breathingdiaphragmatically takes me past
that, because a lot of thatagain is the upper chest
tightens up but the diaphragmcan still move.
So we, if we can take ourbreath past the upper chest,
expand that diaphragm.
(27:46):
I find that I'm still able tobreathe.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
I'm not saying that that's true for all asthmatics,
but I think for a lot ofasthmatics it could make a big
difference well, and here'sanother thing that, uh, this,
what natalie's teaching us rightnow, for all of you listening,
is that for those of you withanxiety, very similar Oftentimes
, people who have chronicanxiety or go into anxiety
attacks will be breathing fromthe chest, which is triggering
(28:09):
this, these anxiety attacks, andlearning this diaphragmatic
breathing, as well as prolongedexhales, can really help with
that as well.
So it's just, you know,incredibly powerful stuff.
And what's crazy about yourstory, natalie, is that it's
like, it's almost like and Iknow you must just be like Jade
I'm so tired of having to learnthese lessons through, you know,
(28:30):
being in a rollover caraccident or falling off my bike,
or getting my head shook as achild.
It's almost as if it's likelife goes okay, we're going to
hit you upside the head, punchyou in the gut, break your arm
so that you learn all of thesethings.
But it's really interestingwhat you've essentially done,
and I just want to point thisout to people because it's so
(28:52):
incredibly powerful.
Most of us, when we get woundedand hurt and I even will make
this about the emotional painsas well what we do is we sit in
it and we just resolve ourselves.
Okay, I am wounded now and now.
This will be a limitation, andwhat I want you all to see,
that's so powerful aboutNatalie's story that I think she
(29:14):
sometimes misses even inherself because she's in her own
body and in her own story isevery time I hear her speak
about her story there seems tobe this nature in you, natalie
that is like I am going to finda way around this.
There is a solution, I willfind it.
And it's almost as if that'swhat you do.
(29:35):
And these stories are reallyinteresting after the fact,
because listen to what Nataliewas telling us two years to
recover from this car accident,basically right.
And in that time that's goingto imagine the mindset of all of
us sitting in pain and tryingto recover from a rollover car
accident.
Many of us, most of us, thevast majority of people, will
(29:59):
simply have those limitationsfrom that moment forward.
And I just want to point outwhat Natalie's doing is she's
taking these things alreadyhaving severe limitations in her
body from a genetic conditionand already having a lot of this
stuff.
That adds on that we knowemotional traumas and physical
traumas on top of that, and ateach stage, learning somehow to
(30:24):
find a solution that works forher and then, more importantly,
going and teaching others toactually understand what she's
learned.
This, to me, is the epitome ofthe next level human process.
So let's go ahead and begin towrap up, because you know I got
(30:46):
another call coming up, but Iwant you to sort of just
anything that you want to sayabout that or share with us in
terms of maybe you know andwe'll just do this intuitively
Maybe you want to share aboutyou know more of the physical
things you've learned, to makesure you complete the story.
Or maybe you want to talk aboutthe mindset, emotional stuff.
I want you to kind of just walkus through, if you had to leave
individuals who are strugglingthrough emotional pain and or
(31:10):
physical pain, which I feel likeyou integrate so well, where
should they begin?
What should they do?
How should they approach this?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, one of the main , most important things, I think
, is mental health.
A lot of people don't realizehow much our mental health plays
into the inflammation in ourbody and it's the inflammation
in our body that causes us morepain.
And it's kind of like a viciouscycle the inflammation level
goes up, we have pain, so thenwe just kind of get in that
(31:42):
vicious cycle of this is whereI'm going to live, you know,
just in this pain.
So when we can change ourmindset to more of an acceptance
of where we're at which iswhere the mindfulness comes in
and start to see those subtlelike okay, I do have some
control over my life throughthose subtle adjustments, it
makes a huge difference.
(32:03):
So, yeah, I focus on thosethings as well as well, and I
want to touch on how you saidthat I, you know, unfortunately,
like I said, I keep havingthese big things that seem to
smack me in the face to have memake a change, and one of those
was the car accident and I hadautoimmune hepatitis that I'm
now in remission from, butreally big things that helped me
(32:25):
to realize too that there werepeople in my life I had to cut
out.
You know there are a lot offamily members, which is hard
for a lot of people, becausesociety tells us how important
it is to keep your family around.
We grew up with, I know, in myfamily it was like there's
nothing more important than yourfamily.
Your family will always bethere for you.
It's like my family's neverbeen there for me.
(32:46):
My family has been like theworst thing for me.
So learning that through theseprocesses and taking out those
pieces that don't serve me hasbeen huge.
Learning how to live on ananti-inflammatory diet has been
a huge part and again, so a lotof it is just about reducing
inflammation.
(33:07):
And then the other big componentthat a lot of people get wrong
is so many people, when they'rein pain, their muscles hurt,
they want to stretch them, andfor some people, in some
situations, that's a good thing.
Almost always.
For somebody with hypermobility, stretching is not the right
thing.
Almost always it's going to bestrengthening.
It's so funny since learningthat how you know, I would have
(33:29):
neck pain and I used to go tostretching it and it would never
get better.
If anything, it would get worseneck pain.
You'll find me doing kettlebellswings or kettlebell carries.
I'll be doing side planks,things to strengthen and engage
the muscles in appropriate formand shape, of course, and then
(33:52):
the neck pain goes away becausenow the muscles are able to do
the work that they need to do.
So, for hypermobile people weneed to do a lot of
strengthening, but we have to bevery careful in how we do it,
and so that's what I focus on ishow do you move in a safe way
for your body that you don't endup in more pain after the
exercise too?
Because, unfortunately for me,I've even seen many PTs that
made me worse because theydidn't even get it.
They don't understand how mybody moves.
(34:13):
They just say just go and do itand just move.
Well, if I'm not preciselyright, I'll be in worse pain
later.
So, yeah, my goal is to helppeople to understand, in
everything that they do, how tomove better, how to keep their
mental state in a good place, towatch their, their diet, you
know these outside things thatare coming into them and how
those affect their inflammation,so that, yeah, they can go in
(34:34):
and like I do.
I mountain bike, I paddleboard,I ride a Harley, I am I'm
almost never in pain at thispoint where before I was, at the
point where I was almost neverwith without pain.
I mean I used to live beforethe car accident at about a five
to seven and then after the caraccident it was like a nine to
ten on a scale of 10, with maybeI would get lucky if I had a
(34:58):
couple minutes a day that didn'thave pain.
And now I mean when I have painI'm maybe at a five and that
happens maybe a couple of timesa week as opposed to every day.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
So the formula that you gave to like, when I think
about the formula, just gave,first of all, acceptance.
The second thing is clearing,which I think is like and and I
want you all to just hear whatnatalie's saying there, right,
like it's like.
First, it's like you gottaaccept what has happened to you,
like most people just will not.
They'll blame, complain,whimper, whine, distract and I,
(35:29):
by the way, I do it too like nojudgment here, this, but but
accepting that.
Okay, this is where I'm at now,this is what I need to do.
And then this, this reallyinteresting thing, natalie, that
you're bringing up aboutclearing the energetic vibe of
the people around you.
You mentioned to me I actuallyhere's how I see family, and I
think you and I will see it thesame.
(35:49):
I think family is the mostimportant thing that we have
given to us as humans.
But because of the lessons theyteach, and sometimes that
lesson is about, I will nottolerate this behavior and I
will up level, and sometimesthat means I will not be stuck
(36:09):
in this vibe.
And I agree with you.
Some people just miss that.
They allow their family to trapthem instead of allowing their
family to elevate them.
So to me, I would say there'sgot to be gratitude for the
family too, because they taughtyou I don't need you, I can't
deal with you.
But then there's this finalthing that I actually think
mentally and emotionally andphysically strengthening and
(36:29):
building resilience.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople don't understand that
strength exercise is a is astretch with a contract, a
contract with a relaxation.
It is the way the body'ssupposed to move.
And so I oftentimes think now,when I'm always strengthening,
always strengthening, alwaysstrengthening that yes, I need
(36:49):
to go through full ranges ofmotion and when I do that I
don't actually need to stretch.
When I'm just doing resistancetraining, slowly and controlled,
through full ranges of motionand balancing out the different
body parts, I tend to do muchbetter than when I just stretch.
And of course, I'm learning aton now about fascia and all
that kind of stuff, which I know, you, you know all about as
(37:11):
well, and we should probablyhave another conversation about
that.
But I just really love thatsort of three part piece,
because you did it with yourphysical body but I also think
with your mental, emotional body.
It's like acceptance.
Clearing, strengthening, slash,building resilience seems to be
the Natalie formula.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, yeah, thank you for summarizing that for me.
Yes, you're really good at that.
That for me.
Yes, you're really good at that.
I appreciate that and yeah,yeah.
So what I want to do now ishelp people with hypermobility
disorders, chronic pain, pasttrauma, you know move through
that.
I want to teach them how tomove safely, strengthen their
body, manage that pain long termand help them to figure out how
(37:55):
to have more stability in theirbody, gain that confidence to
be able to go and do the thingsthat they want to do.
The ability to stay active,because, you know, I've always
said I don't think I'll everretire, because when you look at
people who say they retire,they sit on the couch and do
nothing.
My retirement will becontinuing to teach, continuing
to mountain bike, continuing toadventure, because I don't want
(38:17):
life to end until I am actuallyin the grave.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I've never understood the idea of retirement, I just
haven't.
But then again, you and I havedone things that we love and are
very purpose-oriented in whatwe do, and I do wish that for
everyone.
And, if you'll allow me, as weend, natalie, I just want to.
You're incredibly humble,incredibly knowledgeable and I
just want to, I want to pitchyou to everybody, right, like I
(38:41):
kind of just want to pitchNatalie to all of you.
If you are someone who's dealingwith body pain and you have
this, your story resonates, herstory resonates with you.
Where there's this confluenceof mental, emotional, deep
mental emotional abuse andtrauma, as well as physical
issues and body pains, I thinkNatalie is your person, she's
your teacher, she's your healer.
(39:02):
I think you, I think you wantto.
There's not an accident thatyou're sitting here listening to
this interview right now.
Please check her out, and I'mso glad we got to do this again.
Natalie, you know you'reincredibly gifted in what you do
.
You're incredibly gifted inwhat you do and I just
appreciate you so much.
Before we go, why don't youtell them where they can find
(39:24):
you if they want and need helpor want to get some of your
teachings?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Sure.
On Instagram you can find me athyperstrong underscore method
and on Facebook you can find meat Sacred Spirit Body Works so
Sacred.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Spirit Body Works or Hyper Strong Method.
Yeah Well, thank you so much,my friend.
I got to run but go ahead andstay on the line real quick, so
you and I will say a quickgoodbye because I want to make
sure this all uploads.
But for all of you, thank youfor hanging out with Natalie and
I on the podcast and we willsee you at the next episode.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!