The Post-Dieting Comeback. A New Perspective with Justin Janoska- Ep. 295

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In this episode of the Next Level Human podcast, Dr. Jade Teta and Justin Janoska discuss the themes of Justin's new book, 'The Post Dieting Comeback.' They explore the psychological and emotional aspects of dieting, the connection between trauma and eating behaviors, and the importance of understanding one's identity in the healing process. The conversation delves into the psycho-neuro-endocrine-immune connection, the role of stress in chronic illness, and techniques for emotional regulation. They emphasize the need for a holistic approach to health that goes beyond traditional dieting methods, focusing on emotional awareness and self-identity as key components of lasting wellness.

Contact Justin:
Social: @justinjanoska
website: www.autoimmunerevolution.com
Book: Post-Dieting Comeback (GET ON AMAZON)

Chapters:

00:00:00 Introducing Justin Janoska's New Book

00:02:24 The Psychological Roots of Dieting Behavior

00:06:12 Dieting as a Symptom of Deeper Issues

00:14:32 The Science of Stress and Metabolism

00:21:37 Changing Brain States for Healing

00:30:56 Techniques for Emotional Regulation

00:42:17 Metabolic Repair After Chronic Dieting

00:51:46 Human Thriving Beyond Body Image

01:12:16 Closing Thoughts and Where to Find Justin

Looking for a Next Level Human Coach? Get on the waitlist and get access to the brand-new science of quantum metabolism and identity restructuring with Dr Jade and the team.
http://nextlevelhuman.com/human-coaching

Want to become a Next Level Human Coach? Get on the waitlist. Go to: http://www.nextlevelhuman.com/human-coach

Connect with Next Level Human
Website: www.nextlevelhuman.com
[e-mail]

Connect with Dr. Jade Teta
Website: www.jadeteta.com
Instagram: @jadeteta

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's going on everybody?
Welcome to the show.
This is the Next Level HumanPodcast.
I'm your host, dr Jay Tita, andI'm here with my good friend
and colleague who's been on theshow multiple times, justin
Janoska, and we're here talkingabout Justin's new book, the
Post-Dieting Comeback.
We have it right here so youcan check it out.

(00:20):
And obviously, justin, you andI have done this multiple times
together.
We've talked together, we'velectured together, we've done
many podcasts together.
We definitely speak the samelanguage, but we come at this
from slightly different pointsof view, and so I always like to

(00:40):
give my audience your sort oftake on all this stuff.
So why don't you let us knowwhy you thought it was so
important to put out anotherbook?
And, by the way, this isJustin's second book, brand new
off the shelves.
Make sure you go and get it.
But I'm just curious, man.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
So why this book?
And why now?
Yeah, it's a great question.
So I think the simplest way toexplain it is that because I
work with so many women who haveautoimmune diseases,
reproductive issues, pcos,disordered eating, things like
that that are really detrimentaland really challenging to work
through, I started to see apattern of how that was shown up

(01:24):
.
A lot, of course, but there arethese sort of tendencies for
women to obviously want to loseweight and I find that, because
of what they've beenindoctrinated to do and believe,
like a lot of us have beentaught, when it comes to weight
loss, they kind of, in a sense,dig themselves in a deeper hole
without knowing it, and it'sreally a problem because we

(01:45):
think, as you talk about a lot,eating less, exercising more is
the thing that we are taught todo, and then they do these
things and then they are findingthemselves with more symptoms
and flare-ups and not reallygetting anywhere.
So I thought you know we haveto obviously change our approach
, but also understand that weneed to repair the issues that

(02:08):
have happened, that haveoccurred from doing those things
, and also learn about why we'redoing this in the first place.
That's one of the biggestobjectives with that book is to
challenge people's ideas aroundwhy they not to say that you
can't lose weight and there'snothing wrong with that
inherently.
But why are we actually doingthis?

(02:29):
Is it because your mother toldyou that you were overweight
when you were 10 years old andyou're still carrying that
burden and you need to prove toyour parents that you're good
enough or you're worthy and tobe accepted?
All these kinds of things, withtrauma potentially or not, but
these deeper things,psychologically that we might be
carrying the mud that you talkabout a lot.

(02:49):
So I'm trying to, with thisbook, kind of tie the connected
dots here for people, inaddition to obviously helping
them repair their metabolism,because there's a lot of that I
see too where I'm sure you haveas well, where people women are.
I actually have a client rightnow who's going through this,
where they've they're doing allthe right things and they're

(03:11):
still not losing weight orthey're still dealing with
symptoms, and I just go well,because unfortunately for some
women they can't just flip aswitch and get everything back
to normalcy again.
It takes sometimes a year ortwo or more and it's frustrating
.
So one of my intentions withthis let's let this go by.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
We got a siren going by.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Cool go ahead.
So one of my intentions withthis was to help women see this
and realize that this is not agood thing to do and it's a
major consequence potentiallythat if we undereat and deprive
ourselves and put our body in adeep survival state, then we
might be dealing with a lot ofmetabolic dysfunction and damage
right, and that's going to takesome time to recover.

(03:52):
So my aim with this was to helppeople come out of that, but
also to help them really seewhere it comes from in the first
place.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, so the idea here is let's first unpack this
idea of post dieting, right?
So, like the title of the bookis post dieting comeback.
You covered a lot there.
There's obviously a metaboliccomponent and there's a
psychological component, and Iknow that you and I have both,
interestingly enough, in ourwork, even though we spent most

(04:19):
of our time in the metabolismspace and you made this switch
before me, by the way I thinkyou know where you really
started looking at thepsychological component of this,
and so obviously, thispost-dieting comeback has a lot
to do with both.
And I guess my question is oneof the things and I don't know
if you've ever put it this way,but I know that you were sort of

(04:41):
talking along these linesbefore.
I was really about this ideathat dieting, in a sense and I
don't know if you've ever put itthis way, but I'm going to put
it this way is a symptom of anunderlying issue that is also

(05:02):
related to the conditions thatthey have.
So does that make sense?
Meaning that you know just foryou all listening to this, I'll
unpack this a little bit morethat we think of all these
symptoms.
Okay, you got autoimmuneconditions and you've got
fatigue and you got.
You know all these things andyou know achy joints and you
know dysfunctional digestion andwe think of those as symptoms.

(05:25):
But we don't oftentimes thinkof the psychological need to
diet as a symptom.
And if it is a symptom, what'sit a symptom of?
And I think you in particular inyour work, have really I don't
know if you've ever put it thatway, but you've really pointed

(05:45):
out this idea that when someonehas a need to self-soothe or
self-control or be hypervigilantaround their diet and their
exercise, it's pointing tosomething perhaps deeper.
I'm not in all people, but it'spointing to something deeper.
So if you don't have anyobjections, I would like to
start there.
How do you see that?

(06:06):
Do objections?
I would like to start there,like, how do you see that?
Do you think I'm characterizingit the way you would
characterize it?
And if so, what would you saythis actually is?
And then we can start unpackingsome of the other stuff.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, it's an interesting question and thought
experiment, but that's actuallyI don't say it that way, but
that's actually how I feel aboutit.
Because, yeah, these are justexamples of coping responses and
mechanisms that are normal,right, there's nothing wrong
with doing that, just likethere's nothing wrong with being
a people pleaser or countingyour calories and macros.

(06:39):
But we have research and Iactually have about 68 studies,
I think, in that book Ireferenced that highlights these
sort of things and how countingmacros and calories and
weighing yourself all the timeis flirting with, you know,
disordered eating, in a sense,and body dysmorphia.
So you know, because theargument is that people will say
, well, I don't have an eatingdisorder and I don't, and that's

(07:00):
true, like a lot of people,most people don't statistically,
and I don't, and that's true,like a lot of people, most
people don't Statistically.
It's a very small percentage,right of the world.
But I think what actually isgoing on is people are in the
gray zone where they're actuallydealing with disordered habits.
That may or may not be an issue.
So my contention is that theseare the things that maybe not be
disruptive right now, but theycould be psychologically

(07:22):
personally in your romanticrelationships and other
relationships.
But psychologically, if it'screating stress internally, with
inner dialogue and intrusivethoughts and feelings of
inadequacy and shame or all that, then that's going to affect
the quantum metabolism and thebiology and energetically, that,

(07:45):
I think, is a real issue forwomen who are dealing with
chronic illnesses, because it'sjust reinforcing the stress and
the survival state and it's kindof unconscious, right.
You don't realize it.
So that's what I'm trying to do, is highlight this sort of
thing because if we don't changethat, it might be one of the
biggest blocks to their healingand recovery.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, you know there's a term we use in
functional medicine and thenaturopathic.
My background was kind of ontop of this right from the
beginning when I learned, butit's the idea of psycho, neuro
endocrine immune function and Idon't know that other people
ever saw it this way, but Ialways saw it in order.
I always saw it as like, yeah,psycho comes first, because the

(08:24):
psychology impacts the neurology, which impacts the
endocrinology, which impacts theimmune system.
So I know we put these wordstogether, but I actually see it
also as that's actually how itflows and to me, actually,
something comes prior to psycho,which is conscious, so it's
conscious, psycho, neuroendocrine immune function and to

(08:49):
me, that consciousnesscomponent, the part that holds
our ego and our identity and ourbeliefs and our stories about
who it is that we think we are,that make up our psychology and
personality.
It seems to me that this iswhat you're pointing to.
Now I definitely want to getinto some of the stuff that
actually happens further up inthe neuroendocrine immune, but

(09:13):
one of the things I reallyalways like about your work is
you do seem to be talking aboutthis psycho part and I'm just
adding on a part before thatthis consciousness, or
subconsciousness in the case ofmany of these people, where it
is at the level of theiridentity, their ego structure,
their stories and beliefs aboutwho they are that might compel

(09:36):
them to be overzealous orextreme in their diet.
And so let me just just so,because I don't know if that
makes sense to the listener, butI'll just give you an example
of what I'm talking about.
So you come up, let's say, inchildhood development or
adolescent development, andlet's say, maybe you're bullied

(09:57):
and this would be my case, bythe way, with my brother so
maybe you're bullied andunconsciously you learn to fight
, which I did, and you end upputting on a lot of muscle,
which I did, and you build upthis armor, and so I became
obsessive about the gym.
Now I thought I loved the gymand I did love the gym, but when
I go back and look, I candirectly see, oh, that some of

(10:19):
my difficult life experiencesled me to seek out the gym for
very particular reasons and thatled me to perhaps be, at times
in my life, overly engaged, tothe point of my detriment, in
dieting and exercise to buildmuscle, including using

(10:39):
performance enhancing drugs andall the other things.
Now, that might not necessarilybe something that I was
conscious of until later, in thecase of, perhaps, a woman who
maybe was told they were fat, orwas rejected in some way or
didn't make the cheerleadingteam, or something like that.
This also seems to perhapsfollow people around, and that's

(11:04):
what I mean here.
And so is that how you see it?
And I'm wondering.
I mean, obviously this is anincredibly well-referenced book,
so is this how you're seeing it?
Are there other components tothis?

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, that's exactly it and I think, a big motivating
factor for me to write this,because there are many factors,
but one of the common themes Isee a lot with clients who have
chronic illnesses is they havedisordered eating tendencies and
habits and these dietingbehaviors and things that are
seemingly innocuous, but whenyou really dig in and learn

(11:36):
about their identity and theirpast and their story and what
kind of happened, you see a lotof these little t trauma things,
these adversities, thesestruggles, whatever you want to
call it.
And that's what I'm trying topoint out for people, because I
don't think people are aware ofit, and that's actually the
whole point is to really shine alight on this so they can see
that this might.

(11:56):
I had an aunt, I had a motherwho told me that I need to lose
weight on Monday, I need to goon this diet and especially when
you have a parent and a lot oftimes people have parents, I
have a client right now who hasa mother, it's still bulimic and

(12:17):
you can see all thegenerational trauma behind that
and some people have that andsome people don't.
They just have a parent whomodels for eating habits and
they binge eat and they eatpoorly and they talk negatively
about their body and theyproject that onto their kids.
And this is little stuff thatdoesn't seem problematic.
But, as we know, that can beimprinted in the psyche and you

(12:39):
carry that around and it's likean indelible mark in your brain
and then as an adolescent youstart to see the signs of these
things and you don't notice itnecessarily, but when you really
work with somebody, you diginto that.
You can kind of see like theseare all coping responses that
were necessary and helped yousurvive and get through.

(13:00):
But now you're in a differentenvironment and now it's a
detrimental and how is it so,you know?

Speaker 1 (13:08):
so now let's go one layer up.
We kind of talked about theconscious aspect, let's call it
the conditioning of the identitychildhood, adolescence, young
adulthood.
Now what happens?
The level up?
So now we're in the level ofthe psychoneuro, so it
essentially impacts the nervoussystem, which then impacts the
hormone system, which thenimpacts the immune system.
So what you're pointing out isthis autoimmunity, which seems

(13:28):
to be prevalent in these cases,you know.
So are you seeing it like this?
And, if so, walk us through howthis starts to hit the
metabolism in a way that youknow, people who are like, don't
really want to get into thepsychology which I know you and
I love, and I do want to comeback to that want to get into
the psychology which I know youand I love, and I do want to
come back to that.
But for the people who go, okay, how is this manifesting then

(13:50):
in the metabolism?
What's it actually doing, anddo we have evidence to show what
it's doing?

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, and that's the most challenging thing, because
some people are not really soldon that idea.
They could say and admit that,oh yeah, I had my mother treat
me like this or said this to me,and they might carry that with
them and make a story out of itand say that was significant and
it's impacted me.
And a lot of times they don'tbecause it's so subtle, right,

(14:15):
and I just go okay, no worries,I'm not here to convince you,
but I would say there areobjective measures that we can
look at to see if you're stillin survival mode or self-danger
response or those kinds ofthings that are basically
explaining why you're notgetting better.
And I'm saying this because alot of people have done a lot of
things and tried every protocolunder the sun and aren't

(14:37):
getting much better.
And I just go I don't thinkit's more.
And now, sure, there could besome things we could refine with
your environment and yourprotocols and whatnot, and
working on the physiology, but Ithink the biggest block is that
I'm finding is that there'sstill a lot of the stuff in the
attic between their ears thathasn't been addressed or healed
and they haven't found the rightprotocol or right therapies or

(14:58):
healing modalities and stillplaying out of the personality
patterns and traits.
And it's still playing out inthe personality patterns and
traits.
If that's going on, you're in asense reinforcing the stress and
the hormones.
And this is why we look atreverse T3 and heart rate
variability and saliva cortisoland you can kind of get a sense.

(15:20):
Saliva cortisol is perhaps themost helpful marker because we
know from research that peoplewho have complex trauma or PTSD,
even and even just mild casesof stress, I think they have
really abnormal patterns.
And if your cortisol, forexample, is really low all day

(15:40):
or most of the day, that's goingto be an issue.
In fact it's bad if it's high,it's bad if it's low, and so
that isn't to say that it's allrooted in psychology and
unprocessed emotions, but whatI'm trying to say is that if
we're trying to correct foreverything else and we've dealt
with the parasites and thebacteria and the leaky gut and

(16:01):
all the toxins we were dealingwith that we think we have and
you're not getting better thenwe need to look at what's going
on in the non-physical,intangible world, and that's the
thing that I've been trying topoint out, and when I help
people with that sort of stuff,they find improvements in their
labs, they find improvements intheir symptoms and they didn't
have to try so hard.
And I'm not trying to make itsound like it's that simple, but

(16:23):
it tells me that, just fromobservation, that that might be
the missing link.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, it makes complete sense and I can tell
you that and you know this.
But I'll say this to thelistener and a lot of them who
listen to me also know this butI have moved almost exclusively
in this direction for the exactreasons that you mentioned.
I spent decades helping peopleand I was known to get good

(16:49):
results, and I feel like myresults were crap.
I'm just being honest aboutthat, and to me, I feel like I
have seen more in the last sevenyears, as I've really delved
into the psycho-emotionalcomponents and what I might call
quantum metabolism, which has alot more to do with just
thoughts and beliefs.

(17:10):
It actually has a lot to dowith mechanisms underneath the
endocrine system that are reallyin charge of things, which I've
done podcasts on those.
But I feel like I have nevergotten better results with
individuals than I am now justdealing with this material, and

(17:31):
so I'm going to say something.
I want to see your take on this, because this we haven't really
talked about in terms of youand I haven't looked at talking
about.
What do we think?
The statistics are here, butfrom my perspective, this might
seem controversial, but as acontributing factor, I would say
nearly 100% of people as acontributing factor, have

(17:53):
underlying what I would call MUD, which is an acronym Many of
you have heard this, but for me,the acronym is just misguided,
unconscious decisions.
It's just a short-term way ofsaying your limiting beliefs and
or belief structures that areinhibiting your ability to do
the things that you need to doto make the lifestyle changes,

(18:13):
and or inhibiting the metabolismto make the changes it can make
when you make those lifestylechanges.
I think 100% contribution and,by the way, if anyone doubts
that, to me, all I'm saying isstress and the many forms of it,
including psychological 100% iscontributing to any condition
out there.
It's a contributing factor.

(18:35):
Now, the trick, though, is howmuch is causative?
Now, we don't know theseanswers.
Maybe you have a guess, but howmuch is causative?
Maybe you have a guess, but howmuch is causative, and I think
it's a very, very significantportion.
I don't think it's most people.
Maybe you think it's most.
I don't even know that it's 50percent, right Causative.

(18:56):
I would say my guess issomewhere between 30 to 50
percent of people.
This is actually the cause oftheir issues, and maybe in your,
where you and I are coming from, because we work with a lot of
hard cases.
Maybe in those particular casesit's the vast majority of the
people we see, but I'm wonderingjust how you're seeing this.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, that's why it's a little biased right, because
when you work with extreme casesyou can kind of see things from
a particular angle.
And to me that's the mostsalient part of this discussion
is because a lot of it is rootedin emotions and the
psycho-emotional aspect of itthat you can't control and do a
protocol to get rid of it, andthat's what most people are

(19:41):
gravitating towards right to getrid of it, and that's what most
people are gravitating towardsright.
But yes to your point, I thinkthat there is a correlation with
any of these sort of things,with symptoms and the complaints
that you have.
And actually what I think itreally is is more of an
accumulation and accruing allthese emotions from the past to
present.

(20:01):
And that's actually what I tryto say is that you have maybe
old stuff, but because thephysiology and the neurobiology
are shifting now, because,depending on where you are and
when these things happen in yourlife, it's going to pave the
way going forward.
So the earlier the stuffhappens, the quicker.
The quicker, the more drasticthe brain changes and that can

(20:25):
really shape the hormones,immune system, the nervous
system, especially in a profoundway, versus right, because we
know that there are differencesbetween somebody who goes
through sexual abuse at agethree versus age 18.
Right, so those things matter.
I think it has a lot to do withit.
But I also think that, ifnothing else, we're just in a
very stressful time in life now,and even if you're not

(20:49):
convinced, trauma or adversityisn't part of your biography.
You have patterns and behaviorsand type A personality traits
and things like this that arevery common, that aren't again a
problem until they are taken tothe extreme, and when they are,
that is my.
That's the point I'm trying tomake is that there's no off

(21:09):
switch.
There's no, nothing changes,and then you're constantly
reinforcing the stress in thebody, but because it's your new
normal, you're not seeing it asan issue.
So that's the hardest thing isthat if you're not even aware of
what's going on, then nothing'sgoing to change, right?
So my goal is to kind of atleast point that out and say
this could be going on.
It doesn't mean you can't dothese things and have these

(21:30):
personality traits, but it can'tjust take over your whole life
because you don't see that it'sactually intensifying and
compounding the problems youhave, and this is more of an
issue with chronic illness andautoimmunity, like we said.
That's how I see it.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
I mean, I'll tell you one of my big pet peeves when I
hear this and even when I dothis work, because this is the
work that I do now I mean it'svery different.
But I'll tell you what mybiggest pet peeve is that and
this is my pet peeve has alwaysbeen this and throughout
medicine, it's my pet peeve inthis space too.
We could talk mechanisms allday long, but what I found
moving into this space and Imoved into the space not because

(22:07):
I was like, oh, I'm interestedin this work, I moved into the
space because I was like Iwasn't getting results and I'm
interested in getting resultsand what I have found in this
space, as well as the rest ofmetabolism and medicine, is that
a lot of people like to talkmechanisms they get so excited
about.
Here's a new mechanism, but tome, I go, that doesn't really

(22:29):
get us results, and so I amcurious from your perspective,
what do you?
How do you get results here?
Because if it's not doing thesupplements, that's working on a
physiological level, it's nottaking the actual hormone
replacement or whatever it is,it's what is it?
And how do you actually getresults with people in this

(22:51):
space?
Because, from my perspective,it's not enough to be like, oh,
you've got some difficult stuffthat you went through as a kid
and you're not aware of it.
It's like, okay, well, how do Iaddress that?

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, and I think the simplest way to explain this is
thinking broadly.
The whole goal is to teach yourbody a new way of being and
feeling, into a state of safetyand regulation, and that can
have.
You can do a lot of differentthings to get you there, and
that's actually the whole art ofthis.
Right Is to figure out whatworks for the client and the
patient and to see what they'revibing with and connecting with

(23:26):
and what they can do on theirown to reinforce that when we're
not in session.
Like that's actually the meatand bones of it.
It's not going to happennecessarily just because you do
something in session and youlearn some grounding technique
and whatever else to your vagusnerve and you feel good for a
while.
That also has this sort ofoversimplified approach, which
is why I'm not a huge fan of.
I'm a fan of it, but I'm not ahuge fan of like the way it is

(23:49):
now, where it's like well, justdo some humming and some you
know, far gazing and breathingand you're going to stimulate
your vagus nerve and you're goodit's.
You can't just shortcut yourway to it, and so it's about
really learning your triggers, Ithink, and noticing those
things and having the strategiesin place.

(24:10):
So I think of it as that, ashaving as I call like an
emergency kit tool to whateverthat is to help you regulate in
the moment, and then alsowhatever you do that I like to
do and teach in the morning tocreate the foundation so that
you can move forward in the daywith that.
You know what I call love-basedenergy, not fear-based energy.

(24:30):
So that's actually the hardestpart about all this.
Yeah, I was going to say it orsomething else, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
So if I have this, I'll share with everybody sort
of what I feel like is anapproach that I use.
There's lots of differentapproaches, but like if we are
dealing with something that's astory or a belief structure,
which to me is something thathappened, as a judgment, like so
the way I look at it, I go allright.
So imagine, I don't know like.

(24:59):
We'll just take my example.
Imagine I'm a little kid andI'm being bullied by my brother

(25:23):
and it's not a sudden and severeemotional event.
It wasn't like all of a sudden,sudden or severe.
It was a and that happens allat once.
This would be like a caraccident or physical abuse or
sexual abuse or something likethat.
Something all at once happens.
Or I can get myself here subtlythe subtle, difficult events
that are minor but happen overand over and over and over again
.
So this would be the bullyingaspect.
Now this gets stuck in mybelief.
Now, as a child, I'm mostly intheta brainwave states and this

(25:47):
occurs usually if I'm gettingbullied, I go into this
sympathetic state and I'm makinga judgment and telling a story,
while I'm in this sympatheticstate, with a dominant theta
state and a story that's in myhead.
So my thought is, and the workthat I do is, I essentially have
just tried to recreate thatfatal brainwave state, that

(26:09):
sympathetic state, and thenchange the story through
visualization techniques andprompting techniques, and that
seems to be the rewriting, or atleast editing, of the story.
But you brought up somethingelse that I think is another
component of this.
I think the first component isrewrite, which I just talked a
little bit of.
How I do that, your techniqueseems like when it comes up, you

(26:33):
spot the trigger and you tellyourself a different story.
Right, so you're spotting thethought.
And then there's what I wouldconsider the rewire phase, which
is what you're speaking to,where it's like immersing
yourself in feelings, elevatedemotions, not emotions of what I
would call afraid, like anger,frustration, resistance, anxiety

(26:53):
, insecurity, depression.
Instead you're in emotions ofbliss and love and acceptance
and understanding and opennessand wonder, and fun and laughter
, and you put yourself in thosestates.
And so, from my perspective,there seems to be these two
components there's a rewritingof the belief structure and a
rewiring of the emotionalholding pattern.

(27:14):
And, by the way, from myperspective that's not a nervous
system phenomena really.
Yes, it is, but in a sense Isee that more as the conscious
psycho part of the consciouspsycho neuroendocrine immune
situation.
I think there's a thirdcomponent, is a retrain phase,
that I think that's where thenervous system gets in.

(27:34):
But with your techniques I'mjust wondering how you work.
I think it's got to be at leastthose three components, and
then we have lots of differenttools.
So to me it's like a rewrite,rewire retrain.
Now, all of a sudden we'vetaken care of the conscious
psycho part of the consciouspsycho neuroendocrine immune.

(27:57):
Now we can work on theneuroendocrine immune.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, I actually see it the same way.
I think I should have said thatthe thing you do in the moment
when you have that hyper or hypoarousal state is the emergency
kit tool practice I actuallytalked about in the last chapter
of the book is what this isabout.
It's called identity shift.
So it's all about that, and I'mproviding a lot of these sort

(28:22):
of exercises and things to helppeople at least open the door to
it right and be curious enoughto want to do that.
But there's a technique inthere that is about this.
I call it the greet techniqueand that's really again about.
Basically it's aroundmindfulness and acceptance and-.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Well, let's go through it.
What exactly?
How does it work?

Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, so it's starting with grounding right,
creating a sense of safety andreality your mind, wherever that
is right, and that is step oneright.
So you ground into-.
Yeah, so you're grounding intosafety, any regulation, anything
that makes you feel-.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Which is gonna be the opposite of what most people
will do when they're in a fight,flight or response, especially
if their nervous system is usedto that Right.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
So I'm assuming GREET is an acronym then yes, I'm
sorry, I should have said that.
So you're grounding and thenyou're researching the body and
noticing where that feeling isgiving a color, shape, all that
stuff, and also noticing tension, tightness and pressure if
necessary, and then you'reembracing it, and that's the
idea of kind of holding it withacceptance, and I like to talk

(29:34):
about it as imagine, you'reholding a wounded animal or an
egg or something very delicate.
You want to hold your feelinglike that too, and so it's not
about being attached, it's notabout detached, it's being
non-attached, so that's creatingspace for it and greeting it at
the door like it is a friendyou've been seen in 20 years.
That's the idea, the intentionbehind that, and then it's evoke

(29:56):
as the third, fourth stepEvoking is.
So what I'm trying to do here iscreate a mismatch in the sense
of you have this feeling that'suncomfortable.
Then you also create a feelingof by imagining or thinking
about something that a timebasically, when you didn't feel
that way, probably somethingmore uplifting that happened
earlier in your day, forinstance, to make it easy to

(30:18):
access, and then the T istransform.
That's really about bringingself-compassion and I know these
are simple things we've heardof, but they're very powerful,
and it's just we don't take thetime to do it.
And I think we need to do itand rehearse it over and over
again, because that's actuallywhere the healing happens.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
You know what?
I actually don't think it'sthat simple and I'll tell you
why.
And I'll tell you why I thinkit's so important to go through
it, because I think most of thelisteners they don't.
Actually, the reason they thinkthis stuff is simple is because
they don't realize theunderlying science behind it.
So, if you'll allow me and youjump in with this too but one of
the things to understand isthat if Justin and I are talking

(30:59):
, we can't, and he's gotdysfunctional, limiting beliefs
in his unconscious.
I can't just tell hey, justin,you've got dysfunctional beliefs
in your unconscious, let's talkabout it.
This is what therapy does, bythe way, and to me, what therapy
can do is it can go hey, thereit is, you have it.
But think about it.
When I used to like when yourealize if you're an asshole and

(31:22):
then all of a sudden youfinally realize that you
actually are an asshole, thatdoesn't feel too good.
So now you know you got theproblem.
You were unaware of it beforeit.
Oftentimes you just process,process, process.
So to me, what I have learnedabout some of these techniques
is that when you drop intodifferent brainwave states, it's
kind of like going from aconscious, logical mind to an

(31:44):
unconscious mind.
So what actually happensscientifically?
As soon as you tell me, closeyour eyes.
And I want you to imagine thisfeeling in your body.
Where is it?
Oh, it's in my chest.
Can you give it a personality?
Oh, it's kind of like an angryold man.
Does it have a temperature?
Yeah, it's black, it's sticky.

(32:04):
What's its texture like?
As soon as you start doing that, you move out of the conscious
beta brainwave states into alphaand theta brainwave states.
Your brain shifts more into anunconscious state, because the
brain does not think.
The subconscious mind doesn'tthink in logic and linear
language.
It thinks in symbol, it thinksin metaphor, it thinks in

(32:25):
feeling.
Right, so that's actuallywhat's happening there.
And at that point then you canbegin to actually now say hey,
by the way, that dysfunctionalbelief you have.
Now.
Look at it and now it doesn'tcome across as oh, I've got this
thing, I've got this motherwound, I've got blah, blah, blah
.
It just comes across as oh, myGod, I've got this feeling, this
sensation here that manifestsfirst as a nausea, then goes

(32:50):
into like a feeling of twistingand gut discomfort, and it's
associated with this potentialparticular event.
And, by the way, what I'vefound is that we don't really
have memories up until aboutfour years old, so most of the
time you don't actually need toknow the memory.
All you need to do is getpeople into the feelings and
they come up.

(33:10):
I really love that technique.
It's very simple.
I use a similar one in my.
When I'm working with a client,I should go okay, stop right
there, shut your eyes, let'sstick with that feeling.
Where is it in the body?
What's its temperature, what'sits texture?
Once I do that, they go intoalpha fatal brainwaves.
They come out of the consciousmind a little bit.
If I get them doing breath work, I can do that.

(33:31):
If I get them doing coherencebreathing, I can do that If I
get them, and I say, hey, thatfeeling of nausea is just like a
psychic entity, a person, let'stalk to it.
That puts them in a differentbrainwave state.
So it sounds like to me whatyou're doing is putting them in
these different brainwave statesso that you can actually work
with the material and it's nolonger like therapy.

(33:52):
This is very different.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
Yeah, absolutely right.
Yeah, because I say it all thetime.
Like you said, I can't talk youout of a feeling you don't want
to have into a feeling you dowant, or out of a behavior you
don't want to have into abehavior you do want, and that's
the issue.
So when you have people witheating disorders or sort of
eating habits, and yeah, youcould try to make a, you could
willpower your way and try tochange it, but it's not that

(34:14):
easy and it's usually notbecause you have a strong part
of you that's really attached tothat.
So I think the brainwavechanging states are very useful,
because I don't always use it,but I think that yes to your
point, and I've obviouslyexperienced your work with that.
But I think that's a great wayto get your logical brain out of
it and that's why it's useful.
And and then you don't have totry to rationalize and figure

(34:38):
that out.
And that's what's so greatabout it, because you know a lot
of this is working with hangingon the unknown, and that's the
hardest thing I think, at leastfor me to explain to people,
because they want to know theprocess, the protocol, whatever
it is that therapy andtraditional stuff does.
It gives them a sense ofcontrol, in a sense, but you
don't have that when you'rehanging out in the unknown,

(34:59):
which is what this is doing, andso you're going to explore and
find sensory fragments andfragmented parts of memory,
which is what you're talkingabout.
Right, what's hitting yoursenses?
So the smells, the sounds andwhatever else that comes up, and
that's actually the easiest wayto work with it and also not to
re-traumatize, in a sense.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah, and one of the things I could tell you, too
that I see in this work is thatI oftentimes will start doing
this with people and the peoplewho are most resistant to it,
and they are the ones who arethe ones who are most logical
and most hypervigilant.
So think about this for aminute Someone who is in beta
brainwave states, and then highbeta brainwave states Beta, by

(35:39):
the way, for those of youlistening, beta brainwave states
are where we are right now.
Justin and I are talking.
You all are listening to ustalk.
We're all focused, we're havinga conversation, we're engaged.
That's beta brainwave states.
When we get stressed out, we gointo high beta and it helps
focus us right.
Imagine a lion chasing us.
We're not going to be thinkingabout what we're going to have
for dinner.
We're thinking about I got toput one foot in front of the

(36:00):
other and just run.
We get hyper and we get hyperfocused.
Now imagine and I like to usethis example of like we're on
the plains of Africa, on theSavannah, and we see a lion
coming towards us.
We go from beta brainwave stateto high beta brainwave.
That lion goes away.
We're still on the Savannah.
We don't get into a car.

(36:21):
We're not safe, so we're goingto stay somewhat in beta
brainwaste.
They're going to behypervigilant.
And so what happens is thosepeople who are ultimately very
hypervigilant have a verydifficult time doing breath work
, getting into meditation, doinganything that takes them out of

(36:41):
hypervigilance, because they'reso damn hypervigilant, which I
always go.
So if that's you and you'relike, well, I've tried that
stuff and it always annoys me orI can't get into it, I'm like
you actually need it the most,because that's what happens with
these individuals they can'tactually just slow down and do
the breath work or slow down andtap into their core.

(37:01):
And so what I've done a lot ofis trying to figure out very
quick ways to get people out ofthe hypervigilance.
And what I feel like and thisis one of the things I want to
ask you I have moved away from,which I know a lot of people go.
Why are you doing it that way?
I've moved away from calmingbreath as the first step and
instead go into intense breath,and the reason why is that I'm

(37:24):
like all right, if you'reworried about the lion coming,
let's just go ahead and startrunning away from the lion and
get that out of your system, sothen we can go and relax.
And so if you're one of thesehypervigilant people who can't
get into these states, thosepeople, as soon as I see it, I
go okay, now we're not going todo the calming anything, we're
first going to get you to sprint, then we'll bring you down into

(37:48):
this thing.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
It makes a lot of sense and, yeah, I completely
agree with that, because a lotof people are in their head all
the time.
It's also a strategy to avoidwhat's unbearable and
uncomfortable too, right, sothose types of people have the
hardest time with healingbecause of that.
It's also pointing to where thework needs to be done, right,

(38:09):
but yes to your point.
I think they got to empty theirtank in a sense, so they can
have nothing left.
They can relax, but that's thechallenge, right.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah, it's totally the challenge.
I totally see sort of the issuehere.
And the other thing I wanted tobring up see what you think
about this.
But the other thing I'venoticed about this is that a lot
of these behaviors that we inour culture and a lot of the
outcomes are good things, right,like so.
For example, for me when I wasyounger not so much now, right,

(38:55):
but when I was younger I was apretty muscular dude and that
was a good thing.
It helped me have an emotionaloutlet in the gym.
It helped me work off some ofthe anger that I was dealing
with, helped me work off andpeople looked at me and was like
, oh well, you know he's, he'sfit.
And I looked at myself like I'mfit and it became an important
part of my identity.
So what's really interestingabout this work is a lot of the
outcomes and the behaviorsassociated with the reason that

(39:18):
we're stuck are actuallypositive attributes in culture
and in our personality.
And this is another thing that Ithink is a difficult piece of
this work, because you know I'veheard it called the racket in
the landmark form work.
I don't know if you ever didlandmark form or some of that
work.
But the racket is this idea of,or strong suit, right?

(39:38):
The racket is this thing thatyou do Like we work out and we
try to watch our eating.

(39:59):
Your strong suit has a goodthing, but it also is a coping
mechanism for something else.
Ultimately, it's very difficultto want to listen to anyone
that tells you hey, by the way,that thing that you love to do
that actually makes you so fitand makes you look up, you know,
proud of yourself and this, andthat is actually the thing that
might be the problem.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
Yeah, that's basically the whole argument and
that's why we can talk aboutmetabolic repair and all the
issues that happen with ourdieting practices, and, yeah,
let's talk about it.
But what I'm also saying morequickly is that, at the end of
the day, it's really aboutquestioning why you do any of
this and why you struggle withthis stuff, and that's not for

(40:36):
me to decide, but for you tohave a curious mind that can be
like you know what?
Wow, maybe there is somethingthere that I have to look at,
because if I can change that,then I don't get stuck in the
cycle of under eating, beingattached to my body image,
struggling with food or exercise.
That lands me in this metaboliccraziness place, right?

(40:58):
So it's all about seeing thedomino effect that can happen,
and it starts with, like yousaid, the change in
consciousness.
The person that got you sick,the person that got you in this
position, can't be the sameperson that gets you better,
right?
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah, so walk us through then, because I think
we've dealt with theconcho-psycho part.
What about the neurology, theendocrine, the immune piece?
Is there anything you want tosay?
There Is it, is it because, forexample, someone might be
listening to this and they'relike okay, so I get that.
I have to, number one, uncoverthese beliefs and sort of edit

(41:34):
them, rewrite them.
I also get that.
My, I need to rewire myemotional holding pattern.
So I think that's the first twothings that you and I are
saying right, we have to, wehave to edit the old beliefs.
We have to rewire not thenervous system, we have to
rewire the emotional holdingpattern, which is associated
with the nervous system.
To me it's where the nervoussystem and the conscious psycho

(41:54):
meet.
But then we have to retrain thenervous system, endocrine
system, immune system, themetabolism.
What about this part?
What are we telling people?
We tell them exercise less.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
We tell them eat more .
What are we actually doing here?
Yeah, I mean, at a fundamentallevel, it is going to be about
kind of a lot of the things thatyou've taught over the years,
which is kind of doing theopposite of what you've been
told.
So I really like to instillthis message of silence,
solitude and stillness, likepeople need more of that, and it
sounds great in theory but hardto do, right?
Tell someone to take a half aday off and not have a to-do

(42:31):
list and see how they do right.
It's not that easy.
I try to get people in thatdirection because they can't go
full throttle every day andexpect to see a change in any
disease state, any symptom andespecially weight loss, right.
So this is the art of this, andtrying to figure out what they
can connect with and do.
That's going to make them feeldifferent and also act

(42:52):
differently and not have theseparts of them that are coping
strategies kind of dominatetheir life.
I think that, yes, we can do allthis sort of interventions with
hormones and cortisol and guthealth and all those kinds of
things that could.
You know, a lot of that happens, like candida and overgrowth of
bugs and things like thatbecause of distress on the body.

(43:13):
You know it's a thing thatusually happens, so we can
correct those things.
I think the thing I like toreally talk about and highlight
nowadays and I mentioned thebook too is really the
mitochondria and cellular repair, because that's actually a lot
of where the issues lie,especially with the metabolic
and flexibility side of thingsthat we know that happens with

(43:35):
chronic dieting and really justsaying that If you feel like you
can't tolerate foods like youused to and you're gaining
weight looking at food, that'swhat that's about.
Right, shift from a whole dayof eating high fat, high carbs
to a whole day of fasting andvice versa.
That's a hard thing for people.
So these kinds of things arealready clues of metabolic

(43:56):
inflexibility and that's why Italk about mitochondrial health
and how this is actually, in asense, the thing that's falling
apart before it can even show upon labs Like that can happen
too.
So we have to do that anyway,even if you have a chronic
illness or not, because ifyou're that metabolically out of
balance, that's probably notworking for you, then you can

(44:19):
look at blood sugar levels andthings like that to confirm it.
To me that's sort of the thingthat has to be explored, because
people don't even realizethey're actually pre-diabetic or
flirting with it, and that'snot a great thing, and that
could be maybe one of the thingsthat is preventing you from
losing weight, right?
One of the things that I'mtrying to point out, too, in
addition to kind of the subtleimbalances.

(44:43):
Again, again, people don't knowthis because their doctors are
blowing it off and saying you'refine, you're normal.
That's what happens,unfortunately.
If we can have a more nuancedlook at this and you, being a
detective, looking at your labsand understanding that there
could be signs of imbalances waybefore you reach that and get
out of range and you havesymptoms to match with it, then

(45:04):
there's your evidence.
That's actually what I'm tryingto sell people on, and thyroid,
of course, but these are thekind of basic things and, either
way, I think supporting themitochondria with the cell and
the cells has got to be a keything.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
We can talk about what that is exactly, but yeah,
yeah Well, for me, you know, forme, the simplest thing to do,
like, so let's just, you know,sort of repeat what we're saying
First, you got to deal withthese unconscious beliefs.
Most people aren't doing that.
Second, we got to rewire theemotional holding patterns.
Most people don't do that.
We've covered that.
Now we're in.
This sort of retraining phase iswhere the habits, behaviors,

(45:42):
skills, all of that stuff comein.
This is like the what to eat.
So I think what you're sayinghere is like OK, this is really
going to depend on the person,but there are some basic things
that people can do.
For me, those basic things areyou know, you need to move the
body.
Walking, it's not going tooverstimulate the body.
You know, some basic weighttraining, probably.

(46:03):
Movement, light exposure,getting outside, simple living
type stuff.
All that kind of stuff to mehas to be there first, and then
you can start going into all thestuff that people start with
the biohacking, the blood sugarregulation, all these labs, all
this other stuff, and to me, Igo.
This is why I feel like peopledon't get results, because what

(46:25):
they're doing is, if we look atthis as a pyramid, the tiny top
of the pyramid is biohacking andblood labs and this fancy
supplement and this goji juiceand this triple detox binders
and whatever it is when I'm justlike, look the belief systems
underneath Whatever it is whenI'm just like, look the belief
systems underneath the emotionalholding patterns, underneath
the general living, underneathof moving your body, getting

(46:49):
good quality nutrition, gettinglight, circadian rhythms, all of
that kind of stuff, most ofthat stuff, just say, are
driving health.
Yeah, absolutely right.
I think it's backwards, you'reright, and that's actually.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
I have a pyramid in there that's about weight loss
and how it's kind of like whatyou said, but it's really about
saying you got to deal with theemotional holding patterns and
the belief systems and thetrauma and all that and then you
can start to look at physiologyand you can still do that.
But I'm saying there's probablya stopping point.
You're going to reach a deadend Maybe if there is still all
that muck in the ground that youhaven't dealt with or in your

(47:40):
past, your shadows, right, andso it's easy to control and work
on all the physiology with allthe biohacks and things.
But what I'm saying is, ifyou're not getting results with
that, then it's probably lettingyou know that there's something
energetically still that needsto be addressed.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
Yeah, you know why I think a lot of people have
problems with this.
Two things I want to cover thenwe can end.
But two things I want to coverhere because the way my brain
works is I go like this Okay, ifemotional struggles are such an
issue for people, how come wedon't see a one-to-one ratio of
everyone who has emotionalstruggles, being overweight and
sick?

(48:15):
We just don't see that.
And also, how come we see somany fit people who have
hypervigilance, who have all thethings, who have lots of trauma
, and they look absolutely great.
And I want to hear your answers.
But my answers are just becausesomeone looks good doesn't mean
that they're actually healthy.
We see people all the timedropping dead.
Fit people these people don'tnecessarily live longer.

(48:37):
If you're paying attention andI know longevity is all the
thing right now but if you'reactually paying attention paying
attention and I know longevityis all the thing right now but
if you're actually payingattention you're not necessarily
seeing all the fit peoplenecessarily living the longest.
Plenty of them die in theirfees.
We see runners dropping dead.
So I don't know that that'snecessarily true, but it is a
pervasive sort of belief.
Now the research will say thesebehaviors seem to be associated

(49:01):
with greater longevity.
So that might be there.
But then how come we don't seethe opposite either, that every
single person who's overweightor sick should then have some
kind of emotional dysfunction.
And the way I see that is thatthis stuff is too hidden to
really understand.
But sometimes illness is justillness.
Sometimes you're spraining yourankle and it's not because you

(49:24):
had some kind of emotionaltrauma.
Sometimes you get parasites andit's got nothing to do with the
fact that you had a hardchildhood.
So I think these two thingsconfuse people, and the third
one is the idea of the wordtrauma.
But first let's cover the firsttwo.
What's your explanation for thefact if this is because I know
that this is the way people arelooking at it, whether they're

(49:45):
conscious of it or not they'regoing okay.
But I see plenty of people whoseem to look good, be healthy,
are going to live long, healthylives, who had completely
dysfunctional lifestyles andtraumas and dramas and
difficulties.
If this is really the reason,why aren't these people having
problems?

Speaker 2 (50:04):
yeah, so I talk about briefly, um, about competitors
and competition and bikini andthat whole bodybuilding kind of
side of the industry and healthspace too, because that's a
great example of people who lookgreat and have metabolic
distress and a lot of issues.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Not everybody but See and I think people would not
believe that right there theyjust go look how good they look
Like.
What do you mean?
These are the healthiest people, and I think even those people
think they're the healthiestpeople, Exactly Right.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
And to add to that, there are a lot like there's no
study around this, but my beliefis that a lot of people who do
these sort of extreme sports andthings have a lot of mud and a
lot of trauma and things thatare going on.
I actually have one of myfriends who contributed to this
book.
Her name is Lauren and she's atwo-time Olympian winner and

(51:00):
IFBB pro and she has a lot ofexperience in the space and kind
of you know, because I couldsay one thing but I wanted to
know if I'm the only onethinking this way and she really
echoed a lot of um, what I,what I thought, and that there's
a lot of dysfunction and a lotof disordered patterns, not just
from the sport, but from what'salready been going on in their

(51:21):
life to make them want to dothis in the first place, like
why are you really on stage?
What's already been going on intheir life to make them want to
do this in the first place?
Like, why are you really onstage?

Speaker 1 (51:26):
What's the yeah, being on stage and the need to
be on stage and the need forthat acceptance is a symptom of
decrement in acceptancebelonging safety, security, that
kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yeah, so that's why we mentioned that.
But yeah, unfortunately, Ithink that's why you have to
look at those biomarkers and see, well, how healthy are they
actually?
Because even if you don't havesymptoms because that's going to
tell you the truth and that'swhere I go I'm like, well, you
don't have to believe me, let'stest these things and see if
your body's literally screamingfor help and let's address this

(51:59):
conversation you and I've hadmultiple times.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
It's a huge pet peeve of mine, not so much for you.
You're less averse to it than Iam.
I don't like the term trauma atall and I have, and I just
don't, because I don't thinkmost people have it.
I don't think most people havetrauma.
Now I want you to push back onme because I know you have a
different perspective, but Idon't think most people have
trauma.
Not only do I not think mostpeople have trauma, I think

(52:23):
trauma is pretty rare.
The kind of trauma that wetalked about is pretty damn rare
People in war, people who'vebeen raped, people who and so
then I just go.
Yet I know this is happening.
So what's your way of dealingwith someone who goes I don't

(52:50):
have trauma, I don't need toread your book or listen to you
know sort of what's going onhere, because they think they
don't have it.
So my whole thing is why are westill calling it trauma then?

Speaker 2 (53:01):
I think that's the psychiatry and youry and the
experts in the field that haveperpetuated that sort of
language.
That's part of the issue.
Chapter two is all aboutchildhood, upbringing and this
sort of stuff, and I come outthe gate literally saying
exactly what I think you'resuggesting too, which is that
most people don't have trauma,and I agree with that, actually

(53:22):
not in the sense of, in thesense of we don't have the
trauma of a natural disaster orbeing in a motor vehicle
accident or these kind ofextreme things.
What people have, though andthis is what I study a lot now
in school we talk about this alot, but with like complex
trauma and these sort of maybeCPTSD you might say, but again,
the labels are not helpfulbecause it also gets people to

(53:46):
run away from that or just be indenial of it, like I don't have
that.
I was never told I do, I wasnever diagnosed, so it's not
even necessary.
It's more about coming to termswith the truth, and whatever
you want to call it and describeit, it's what's true.
That's why I don't even say youhave trauma or not.
It's self-identified.
You decide what it is.
So call whatever you want, Idon't really care, but I think

(54:07):
what we're actually experiencingmore just like with disorder,
eating being more prevalent thaneating disorder statistically
speaking I think that's what'shappening.
We're seeing the same with thisthese micro traumas, these acts
of omission where it's about notgetting your needs met and not
feeling safe or both, and a lotof this that I find, and even

(54:31):
the research.
It's about what happens at home,and the caregivers and the
parents are usually a big playerin this, and no one likes to
hear this and it's a touchything because people feel like
it's an attack on theirparenthood.
I'm not saying that.
I'm just saying that this iswhat we find and this is why we
don't see this trauma, becausewe don't realize that well, my
parent who was giving me a hardtime or was critical of me and

(54:53):
wanted me to perform well inschool and sports and all this
stuff, and that wasn't traumatic, but it could have been
stressful on your system in away that, at the right time,
with repetition because usuallyit has to happen over and over
and over and over again thatchanges your physiology in some
way, and then you have theseadaptive patterns to deal with
that and to keep yourself safeand to make sure you get these

(55:17):
feelings that you never got andit just adds and piles on, and
that's my point.
Does that make?

Speaker 1 (55:23):
sense, yeah, and I agree, and you know the way.
I really I don't think that.
You know.
I know people like rhymes and Ilike rhymes and people will
remember this.
So hopefully people willremember this.
But here's how I see it.
I think it's not trauma.
No, not everyone has trauma.
Most people don't have trauma,but what everyone has is drama,
and I think this distinction ofthis it's not trauma, it's drama

(55:48):
is important in two regards,because everyone has had
dramatic events.
They have not had traumaticevents.
And what's interesting abouttrauma versus drama?
Drama is a story.
We love drama.
We watch it on HBO and TV allthe time, and what I like about
this is that drama is a story.
So you did create a story andeverybody has that.

(56:12):
A story about love, a storyabout safety, a story about
acceptance, a story about abelonging, a story about freedom
, a story about autonomy, astory about growth, a story
about authenticity.
A drama that happened when youwere a kid, when you were an
adolescent, when you were ayoung adulthood, that betrayal
when you're in adulthood, thatbankruptcy when you're in
adulthood, that health scarewhen you're adulthood that is

(56:34):
not necessarily trauma, but it'salways drama.
So I think people have drama,and here's what else is
important about that the storyyou tell about who you are
determines who you are, and sowhat I think you're doing with
this book is you're helpingpeople understand that their

(56:55):
drama is what is driving things,not their trauma, and that
dramatic story that they may ormay not be aware of needs to
change in order for theirmetabolism to follow suit.
I don't know how you see itthat way.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Yeah, perfectly said, that's it.
That's the foundation of thehouse.
Like that's how I look at it.
People are working on buildingthe house on unstable ground
because of those belief,structures and things that are
not helpful for the biology towork and it could be a stretch,
yes for sure.
And you can change your diet andexercise patterns and be fine
and good, and what I'm saying isthat might happen, but if

(57:32):
you're not getting better andyou're doing everything, you're
frustrated as hell.
And that's the progress.
You got to look in at thefoundation of the house, Because
if you're building a house onquicksand, it's not going
anywhere.
As well as going somewherereally fast, it's going to fall
apart.
It's got to be stable ground,which is why it's about, like
we're saying, the change inidentity, the change in
consciousness, and being curiousand learning about this drama

(57:53):
that you have, and that's thebest way to put it.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
Like you said, Can I say one more thing before we end
?
Will you allow me to be alittle bit Hopefully the
listeners will allow this tooand I just have this thought so
you, the listeners, can see whatyou think about this.
And obviously, justin and I aresuper close friends and I don't
think I've had thisconversation with you yet, but
it's been on my mind.
You know what I don't quiteunderstand, man, and I just want

(58:15):
to get really your feedback andlet the listeners hear this To
me.
You mentioned something, okay,so you, you don't.
You do all the things andyou're just fine and I go.
So I feel like in our societythat if you work out and you're
fit and you're thin and you'resomehow, you somehow think
you're just fine, like, like.

(58:36):
People just somehow think likeoh, and then I just go.
Is that really how we're basinghuman thriving?
Are we really going to do thisthing?
And I think this is exactlywhat's really how we're basing
human thriving.
Are we really going to do thisthing?
And I think this is exactlywhat's happening.
Are we really basing humanthriving off the size of our
bodies and how fit we are andhow well we eat?
Because to me, that is not, butthe fact that you got results

(58:58):
on a diet.
That is not human thriving.
Human thriving to me is how youshow up in a room, how you
treat other people.
Do you feel like you havemeaning and purpose in your life
?
That's human thriving.
So I just want to throw thatout, because something that
really bothers me about thiswhole conversation is what is it

(59:18):
that?
What has happened to us that wethink somehow being fit and
looking good somehow makes youhealthy and a good person and a
worthy person?
I don't think it does.
I don't think some of the mostmiserable, sad, anxious,
depressed people I know are someof the most fit humans I have

(59:39):
ever seen, and I do not like theidea that we have somehow
seemed to have equated this withhuman thriving.
I don't think it's humanthriving at all.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
It's just flashy and it gets our attention right and
it's very surface level.
I think that's the point.
You know what?

Speaker 1 (59:59):
it reminds me of dude .
It reminds me of the50-year-old guy going through
his midlife crisis, goes out andgets a Ferrari and a
20-year-old girlfriend.
It reminds me of that.

(01:00:20):
I'm like you think, because alittle vulnerable, because I
think I can easily be judged bymy audience, and maybe you and
I'm not sure.
I just really want to open upthis conversation.
I want to do a whole podcast onit myself, because I just go.
I tend to feel bad for someonewho feels that way, like if
you're basing every becausewhat's going to happen is you
will age, you will eventuallyget sick.

(01:00:41):
Life has a 100% fatality rate.
You are not going to be themost handsome, fit, beautiful
person in the room and what didyour life mean?
Because that's really why youwrite a book, right, like to
help people thrive.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Right, yeah, exactly right, and I think it's.
Health and fitness is acomponent of longevity and
health span, right, but it's noteverything.
It's actually probably a smallpart of it, I think.
I think there's, and I know youtalked about this, but I think
the real issue is and I see thiswith clients too who are stuck

(01:01:17):
with multiple illnesses it'sthat their psycho-spiritual
element of health isnon-existent.
And that's the issue and that'sthe.
It's like the whole crux ofyour vitality and your life
force.
And if you don't have that, Ithink you're not going to have
the best life.
And it's not going tonecessarily show up, um, right

(01:01:37):
away, but it's going to start toshow its teeth later, um, and
that's why it's not a.
It's going to start to show itsteeth later and that's why it's
not a.
It's also not a very trendy andcatchy and sexy thing.
It's which is part of theproblem and why we don't want to
look at this.
But I'm just like I, you know, Itell the clients I said because
one of the things I do withwith clients personally is I
work through the physiology andpsychology stuff but at the very

(01:02:05):
end we go to the transpersonalside of things and, like.
You know, how can you, you know, to what you say all the time
and teach about being anexcellent human, and it's like
well, how do we get to that?
Because are you here to work onyour health every day, rest of
your life, or are you here toactually make an impact and
survive and, you know, feel asense of aliveness and joy?
Because that can't happen withyour diet and your body image,
and that's the whole point ofthe book is well, we can avoid a

(01:02:29):
lot of these issues if we needto start maybe looking at it
from a different lens.
And so that's one of thebiggest gaps, I think, in health
.
I think you agree with that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Yeah, I love that perspective and thanks for
letting me just air thatfrustration.
And, bro, thank you for yourwork.
Thank you, agree with that.
Yeah, I love that perspectiveand thanks for letting me just
air that frustration.
And, bro, thank you for yourwork.
Yeah, thank you for the book.
For all of you, it's thepost-dieting comeback.
It's available on Amazon.
You can find it.
Are you putting it in the audiobook?
I'm working on it, by the way.

(01:03:03):
So, just so you all know, Iactually just found a new AI
tool called Speechify.
Some of you may know that ifyou buy a book on Kindle, you
load it up into this AI and itreads it for you.
So now, even though your bookis not available on audio,
because Justin knows I like tolisten to all my books.
So, thank you for your work,brother, keep it up.
Congratulations on the new bookand thank you for letting me

(01:03:23):
vent a little bit at the end.
And, all of you, thank you forputting up with me.
Yeah, man, where can they findyou?
Tell them where they can getyou.
I know you know Justin spends alot of time on Instagram, but
where?

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
else it's mostly Instagram.
It's just my whole name, JustinJanoska J-A-N-O-S-K-A, and
that's where I talk about allthese kinds of things and more.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
At Justin Janoska on Instagram.
He does a really good job ofeducating constantly, so
definitely follow him.
I follow him there.
If you want to find him, youcan go to my feed.
Just look who I follow andyou'll get Justin.
And I'm lucky because my boy'smostly in Asheville now.