How to Turn Adversity Into Opportunity with Katie Brinkley

Episode Transcript
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Tiffany Youngren (00:00):
Hey there, I'm Tiffany Youngren host of Next up

(00:02):
nation where we help podcastersand YouTubers with vision become
preeminent thought leaders intheir industries. You are about
to have the incredibleopportunity to listen as we dig
into the why, who and what of apodcaster show. Then at the end,
we will identify one powerfulhow one action that she can take
for results in the next 30 days.So let's welcome Katie Brinkley,

(00:25):
host of the podcast RockyMountain marketing. Katie.
Welcome.

Katie Brinkley (00:29):
Hi, thank you so much for having me. Hey, yeah,

you are welcome. Thanks for being here.
Katie's podcast. Rocky Mountainmarketing has released 69
episodes from April 8 of 2020.Until the date of this
recording, which is July 29, of2021. Katie started her career
as a sports reporter in Denverat the radio station eight by

(00:52):
850. K away. She was passionateabout football. And as she was
growing up, she rarely heardwomen on the radio talking about
football. So she wanted tochange that. And now you have
you are with a marketing agency.Is that right, Katie?

I have my own marketing agency. So I started
my own marketing company after Iwas laid off from what I thought
was my dream job. And now I'vefound my own dream job with
running my own social mediaagency.

Okay, so you have a next step. social
communications, is that correct?So that's the name of your
company. And then your podcastis called Rocky Mountain
Marketing. Is that right? Andyou're in Fort Fort Collins,
Colorado.

I'm in Denver, Colorado, Denver. Okay. Okay,
awesome.

I was trying to follow the trail. And you
know, yeah, that's awesome.Well, cool. So why did you start
your podcast, Rocky MountainMarketing podcast?

Well, you know, it's funny, because I actually
just did a social media postabout this recently. And it was,
it made me think back to, and itfeels like I've had this podcast
forever. But it's because I'vebeen wanting to do a podcast
forever. And before the thepandemic of 2020 happened, I had
was at a Social Media MarketingWorld, talking with a bunch of

(02:13):
other marketers hearing thesedifferent marketers say, Oh, I
have this podcast. I'm like, Youguys have a podcast. That's so
cool. I want one. And I just hadbeen wanting to get into
podcasting because I come fromradio, and I thought it'd be so
cool to be able to kind of getback on the mic again, and have
that kind of social audiopresence. And I just didn't know

(02:35):
how to get started. And so whenthe pandemic happened, and
everything got shut down back inMarch of 2020, I've given the
gift of time, like many otherbusiness owners, and I said,
Well, what better time than nowand the rest is history?

That is so great. Well, and real quick,
too. I wanted to touch on thefact you mentioned that you have
a second podcast as well. And Iwanted to say that I haven't
even this is brand new news tome. So what is the other show
that you have going right now.

So I have Rocky Mountain marketing, which is
business and marketing, podcast,and then I have across the pond
NFL podcast. And that is,obviously it's a passion
project. As you said earlier, Igot started in sports radio at
850. K away, and I was thelocker room reporter for the
Broncos and then the Rockies andthe avalanche. So I was used to

(03:29):
being in the sports world.That's what I wanted to do. And
so an opportunity came up. I wason Facebook as in a podcast
group on Facebook, and someonesaid something about looking for
a guest host on their podcastthat they were just getting
started. It was going to talkNFL and I was like, oh, oh, if

(03:49):
you're looking for a femalevoice, because there's all these
dudes commenting like, yeah, myhuge, you know, Go Giants. And
all these guys are coming outwith Well, if you're interested
in the female voice, I wouldlove the opportunity. And he
said, Oh, wow, I didn't thinkI'd get this much. You know,
response. If you guys want usshoot me a DM and tell me what
you listen to the episode untilmy last episode. Tell me what

(04:10):
you think. And so I did. And Iresponded to him. And he's like,
yeah, why don't you go ahead andcome on. And before we knew it.
Now, I'm his regular co host.And we do two episodes a week
during football season together.And he's in Scotland, and I'm
here in Colorado, and from ourpodcast, he's now launched an
entire sports Podcast Network.So he has an NHL podcast and NBA

(04:34):
WNBA MLB. And it's the sameformat for all of the shows. So
one host in America and one hostacross the pond and we talk they
talk American sports so I'm onthe football side of things and
I absolutely love it. As you cantell it's, it's I'm still very
passionate about football, eventhough I'm not on the sidelines

(04:55):
anymore. It's still fun to talkNFL on on air.

Oh, I love That that is so awesome. That's
so exciting. So now back to yourmarketing your business podcast.
First of all, I love it, I didlisten to a couple episodes, I
really like that it's local, youknow, you're not afraid to say
like, these are my people, youknow, small business, and which
is great, because as you know,again, like I'm talking to a pro

(05:21):
here, knowing your audiencebeing really clear about who
you're talking to what they'regonna get out of it. It's just,
you know, really sets apart agreat show, I believe. So why
did what is it that you want toget out of your show? When you
started it? What do you I mean,I know you want it, you know,
you've always wanted to start apodcast, but like, what is it
that you wanted to get out ofit?

Well, so there's, there's a couple of
things with it. And I think thatthat's where it, I kind of was
going back and forth as to whatis the whole goal of the
podcast. And when I started it,it was I wanted to one have the
opportunity to talk about socialmedia, because I am very
passionate about it. But Iselfishly, I wanted to hear

(06:04):
other business owners journeys,and how they got to where they
are, because I, as I saidbefore, I never expected to be
an entrepreneur. I mean, Ieither one was going to be a
sports reporter on radio, or beI was going to be a marketing
manager for the televisionstation. I loved both those
jobs, both of those werecorporate jobs. And then when I

(06:25):
was laid off from my, my, mycorporate job, the marketing
manager position, there was arestructuring, you know, when
two big companies meant merge,because that titles just get
eliminated. And so I was one ofthem. And I was devastated. And
I didn't know what my next stepwould be. And if it wasn't for
other business owners, reallyjust giving me the gift of their

(06:48):
time, and sharing theirentrepreneur journey and sharing
the tips like, oh, yeah, well,you need to make sure that you
do, you hire this person to doyour taxes, or you need to make
sure that you do an LLC for thisreason. I mean, like, all of
that was like, a foreignlanguage to me. And if it wasn't
for people, just giving me thegift of their time, I wouldn't
be able to have started thecompany that I started. And so

(07:11):
that's kind of where I was like,I would love to just continue
hearing the stories as to whyyou decided to go into
entrepreneurship, and two kindof create this community of
other Denver business owners,sharing their journeys, sharing
the marketing that's worked forthem in, you know, in their
business, because you never knowwhat someone's done. Or it's

(07:32):
like, I never even thought aboutthat, that hopefully, it could
be that light bulb moment. So Ikind of wanted to create this
this Colorado based businessowner community where we could
share tips and share ourjourneys and and work with each
other, instead of trying tooutsource somebody, you know,
overseas or out of state, youcould just go straight down the
street and buy a cup of coffeefrom them or, or use that

(07:54):
person's brokerage for your foryour next home sale. So it was
just kind of trying to build abigger community here in the
Colorado about business.

I love it well, and it's almost like part
mastermind and part networkcommunity where you're really
kind of knitting each othertogether, but yet attracting the
kind of people that you want tohang out with. So I think that
that's really great. And so nowwhat who is it that I mean,

(08:23):
you're again, I love that you'repro. So a lot of times I'll do
these hot seats, and I'm like,oh, you know, lately, I've been
interviewing a lot of peoplewith a lot of shows. So this is
I've been spoiled. But you know,sometimes I'll interview
somebody who's brand new. And soit's like, we have to go from
point A, which is like, hey,like who's your audience? I
don't know, you know, and then,whereas you're like, already,

(08:44):
you've done so much of thegroundwork already. And so what
we'll be doing, I envision isreally identifying the things
that are working and like wetalked about before we started
recording, just figuring outlike, how can you tweak them
even just a little bit and geteven more out of it. But I do
love what you're doing. So someof these questions I keep
bumping into, I'm like, you'veyou've got this going on, for

(09:05):
example, target audience, Denverbased small businesses, have you
identified any additional? Haveyou drilled it down any further
than that? Or would you say thatthat's spot on?

I see that that spot on. I mean, it's, I think
it's hard because, you know, I'dlike my podcasts to to grow, but
at the same time, it's sotargeted because I've tried to
kind of create this, this tightknit community of other people
that want to listen and dobusiness together. And so I've
tried to kind of grow a littlebit from just the Denver Bates
business owners in for seasontwo. So season one was all

(09:39):
Denver based business ownerssharing their journey and
sharing the marketing tips andthen season two, I've been
alternating Denver basedbusiness owners with digital
marketing experts from aroundthe world. So I've had someone
from New Zealand Come on, I'vehad somebody from Boston Summit,
you know, so I've been trying toget these done. and experts that

(10:00):
typically you would only be ableto hear speak if you went to a
conference or an event andbought a ticket. And so trying
to kind of bring in that nextlevel of marketing tips for the
listeners, so they can hear,hear the stories and hear the
Denver based business journey,but then also hear the marketing
strategies that are really goingto help them elevate their

(10:22):
business.

I think that's a great idea. And as I'm
listening, I just keep thinking,your, your format and your how
you're doing this is so muchlike the first podcast I had,
which was, you know, again, Iwould ask people to be on my
show, and they're like, what's apodcast, nobody knew what one
was. And that was only, I thinkit was like four years ago by
now. So it wasn't even it'slike, well, I'm not one of those
like, oh, it's been 10 years.But here in in Billings,

(10:46):
Montana. They were still, youknow, using AOL and stuff. And
now, I would say that were likecutting edge technology
everywhere, pretty consistently.But at the time, it was just
like, I have this great idea.But it was similar to what
you're talking about where I wasinterviewing local businesses,
and then also marketing pros.And my number one thing was, I

(11:09):
wanted to meet local people,because I was new to the area.
And so I wanted to connect withother like minded people who
also wanted to do excellentthings. So I, as I'm hearing you
talk, it just keeps bringingback those awesome memories. I
love what you're doing. Sothat's awesome. So what So what
would you say is the problemthat you're solving for your

Um, well, I guess I dont know, I, this is a
audience?
good question. Because I,selfishly like, I wanted to hear
other people's journeys, so thatI could learn from their
mistakes. And I could just kindof cut straight to the front of
the line. So I would like mylisteners to get that too. But

Right. So just say that if you were to So on
then also, just to love to learnthat there's, there's different
ways to, to do online marketing,for your small business so that
you can grow, it doesn't, youmight not, you might think, oh,
you know, well, this is, believeit or not, one of the most
common things I hear is thatsocial media does not work for

(12:09):
me and my business, that is acommon thing that I hear. And it
makes me really sad, becausethey're they've gone in without
a strategy. And so that's one ofthe things like I just would
love for as many people to hearlike, you can be successful
online, when you have a strategyinvolved. And it doesn't require
hundreds of 1000s of dollars, itdoesn't require, you know,

(12:30):
hundreds of hours a week to do.But when you do it smart, you
can succeed. And so that's kindof what the goal is, for me, I
guess is to learn from otherpeople's mistakes, but then also
learn the strategies that willhelp you elevate your business,
so that you're focusing in onyour business and not what to
post on Facebook today. Or howto start an email list or

(12:54):
anything like that.
one hand, you want to helpbusiness owners avoid mistakes
that other business owners aheadof them have already made. So
there's current, they'restarting further ahead than they
would have, if they were juststumbling in themselves and
trying to figure it all out. Butthen also, helping business

(13:16):
owners develop a strategy, havea have a shorter line between
them and a social mediastrategy. That is doable, even
for a small business. So youkind of have two things that
you're trying to accomplish.Would you say? Am I hearing you
correctly?

Yes, that is exactly what I'm, that's exactly
it. And I think that's whereI've kind of been, I want to
make sure that I keep the ideaof the podcasts like there, so
that they know, like, every timethey come in, they're gonna get
they're going to get thatanswer. But at the same time, I
feel like maybe, maybe thatisn't a clerical, but that was
saying it to you. I was like,well, maybe that's not clear.

(13:54):
Yeah. And

that's part of that's always one of the it's
always the first thing I'mlooking for is the audience
promise. And because you thinkabout it as leaders, especially
as thought leaders, we're kindof, you know, we've got our
flag, and we're marching onahead. And they want to know
that we know where we're going,like, what's what is it that if
I listened to your show overtime, what can I rely on knowing

(14:16):
that I'm going to get so thatI'm spending that time? Well,
you know, all of us being sobusy, so it feels like you've
got it, it's just a matter ofclarity as consistently, but you
know, again, even looking atyour topics, it all points to
that. TrueNorth. So, you know,again, it's like you're doing a

(14:38):
great, but I could see, yeah,some possibilities there. So
what do you do now to evaluatewhether your content is
resonating? And have you madeadjustments in the past based on
what you're finding?

That's part of a season two, I started
alternating with the digitalmarketing experts because I did
find that those were some of themost listened to episodes was
when I was just talking highlevel strategy with somebody
else in the industry. And I, andthen also the solo episodes
where I'm just talking to myselfabout strategy. But as much as

(15:17):
I, then this is one of thethings that I think I need to
kind of get over. I don't likehearing me just ramble on for 30
minutes, I, I enjoy theconversation side and having
that, that feel like what thishere, you know, it's a
conversation and you can seewhat the other person is saying.

(15:38):
And you can, you know, have theconversation goes down a
completely different direction.And you thought it might when
you have somebody else on theother end that that's possible.
And so I liked those high levelkind of strategy conversations.
And that's where I was gettingthe most downloads. And so
that's why I was like, Okay,well, I can't just eliminate all
of my Denver based businessowners, because that's what I

(16:00):
started the podcast on likethose to create that community
any otherwise, I'll just be anyother marketing podcast, if I
just start talking high levelstrategies. And so that's why I
kind of also decided to make thedecision for season two to to
alternate guests, from Denverbased business owners and
digital marketing experts.

Like okay, so I love that I love what you're
doing. So you would say when soof this, if you were to pitch
your because you do have soloepisodes that you do right now?

I have a few I only have, I think four or five,
which is not a lot for the 69episodes that have been released
so far. Yeah.

So what would you say gets the most listens?
Is it the high level marketingconversations, the local guests
or the solo?

It really, I got to say, it depends on who my
guest is. Because, you know, Icreate graphics for them and,
and send out an email and givethem the links, and that they do
the promotion, then that helpschange the amount of listeners.
But if it's just me promoting,then it the episodes that have
just the digital marketingexperts on tend to get the most

(17:10):
listens, probably because mostof my followers on social media
are interested in digitalmarketing.

So also, when people are looking for their
names, like the more popularsomeone is just in general, you
know, like I did a, I did aninterview with Neil Patel. And I
promise people are looking upNeil Patel sometimes and then
boom, your podcast is rightthere. So you get a lot more
exposure for sure if someone'slooking, because the rest of us
like who looks up our name,right. And so. So it's always

(17:38):
nice when you have a name thatpeople are looking at. So I
think that that's that's reallygood. And then also, let's see.
So how do you measure? Do youjust measure like the downloads?
Is that kind of your baseline asfar as like, who's listening?
Who's not?

Yeah, but I'm just going off of downloads.

Yeah. And then on social media, I'm sure that
you're all across social media.That kind of leads us we've just
talked about the the why, like,why you do it, who it is that
you're talking to? And I'm justwas just bolting ahead to the
what? So I know, I'm sure you'vegot a great social media
strategy. And with that, I mean,are you measuring like how much

(18:23):
engagement you're getting? Orhow much that's growing as well,
and taking that intoconsideration? As far as content
that is really resonating withpeople? Or how do you how do you
do that? Exactly. Can you talk alittle bit more about that?

Yeah, so I I'm, believe it or not, I'm on social
media. Yeah, I have a prettystrong strategy around Instagram
and LinkedIn. For my socialmedia. I also have a Facebook
but I don't use it as much. Ihave more traction on LinkedIn
and on Instagram. And so what Ido is I share it to those

(18:57):
networks. LinkedIn is great,because when I tag my guests,
then they get notified, theirfollowers get notified. So if
they're active on LinkedIn toand then on Instagram, I have a
couple different strategies thatI use, where I go live and
stories. I have carousel postswith audiograms. And I've tried

(19:17):
different you know, I was justusing like the podcast cover art
for a while, but then I have somany episodes coming out my feed
was just starting to look likeall podcasts. And so that's
where I kind of changed up byhaving those carousel posts so
that way, it still looksdifferent in the feed but when
somebody sees it that I call itsays new episode, so it's still
familiar enough that they knowthat this is in regards to the

(19:39):
podcast and not just aboutsocial media statistic or
something.

Yeah, exactly. So do you have like is, is your
podcast brand? Like does itinterchange with your company
brand or do you use your companybrand and tag or hashtag your
podcast? How do you have thatout.

Um, so it's all the same branding. It's all like
same brand colors, same fontsand everything. It's just a
different, obviously a differenttitle. And I created my own like
podcast cover art and everythingfor it. But it's all it's all
branded the same.

Okay, awesome. And then, so I know I get so
nitpicky here, I'm alwayslooking at how everything
connects together. But so if Iwere to go to your social media
is your social media under yourcompany name?

Or just under me? So yeah, okay. Yeah. So my
Instagram is I am KatieBrinkley, and then on LinkedIn,
I'm at Katie Brinkley, I do havea company page at Next Step
social communications onLinkedIn also, but I don't have
any podcast, social mediahandles, everything's under
either my business or my name.

I love that. You know, it's so funny, because
I would, I would say, I've beendoing social media forever. But
I always love talking to someonewho like, that's your jam.
That's what you're studyingevery day. That's what you're
doing. You're in it. I'm more ofa like, Yes, I do social media.
I've been doing it forever. Itchanges every five seconds. So
it's always nice. And I have tosay, I'm so happy to hear that

(21:13):
you do that, because that's whatI tell. Like, I agree. I just
feel like you need to have onebrand. You're one person. Don't
confuse everybody. But it's okayto have a show that has a
different name. The other thingI have to say like I love that
your that your next step is nextsteps social communications. I'm
next up nation. And every everytranscription always says next

(21:35):
step. So I feel like we're nextstep nation but we're not We're
next up nation, but I feelkindred spirits here there for a
minute with the with my othername. It's kind of like, you
know, when I was in school, andpeople would say, Jeff, and I
would we would both look youknow, what? So? So that's us.
That's awesome. So, let's seehere. And I know and again, like

(21:58):
I said, I've kind of followedthe steps through to find the
different pieces. Now, I'm, I'mjust gonna I and I'm just this
is so different than my normalpodcast. Usually I'm like, oh,
so tell me your story. This isjust really like, Okay, I'm
gonna dig in now. So I'm justgonna just ask away. Do you is
your host Spreaker? Is thatcorrect? Yes. Okay. Which is

(22:22):
funny, because like their playerlooks almost exactly like
Lipson. So I went to yourwebsite, next step, social
communications, and clickedpodcast. And I swear, I was
like, I thought it said,Spreaker. And so do the ads run
through Spreaker.

They do. Yeah. So you can choose where the ads
are placed, obviously has to belike, yeah, so you can choose
where the ads are placed. But Idon't have to do anything for,
you know, the ads that they doall the work. And then they also
give you the option to do yourown ad to play on similar

(22:59):
podcasts for free. So I createdmy own ad, which they are
playing on other marketingpodcasts, I guess, to get them
those listeners to listen to myshow.

Okay, and so with that, and I apologize, I
don't know a ton about Spreaker.But I so they place the ads. So
for example, when I listen toyour show, it's MailChimp, like
MailChimp, in the beginningMailChimp in the middle and
MailChimp at the end. Like dothey place the company into your

(23:32):
podcast? Is that true?

Yeah. And it's interesting that you got
MailChimp because I mean, Idon't know which episode to
listen to. But I know that. Forme, I've never heard MailChimp.
When I've listened to myepisodes. I've heard what is it
called? Those plato's closet. Idon't know if you have those in
Montana, but it's like a higherend consignment store. And
there's one over like, you know,two miles away, but I'm like,

(23:55):
That's so interesting that I'mdoing plato's closet. And then I
love my podcast, but yeah.

Oh, that's so funny. Yeah, well, we probably
they're like, We don't have anystores of any of our advertisers
anywhere near Billings, Montana.So we're just gonna play
MailChimp. So that must be it.This is so fascinating to me.
So, so that's awesome.

I'm pretty happy with Spreaker. You know, I, I,
I'm on clubhouse a lot. And Ijoin a lot of podcast rooms. So
had the opportunity to be in thesame room and share stage with
the founder of Lisbon. And youknow, a number of these other
podcast hosting platforms andeveryone that I've talked to us,

(24:38):
you know, they have not heardvery much about Spreaker. But
when I tell them, like, oh,well, this is what it costs.
This is what I get. There's aYeah, I wouldn't leave them. So

that's cool. No, that's great. Well, and I
think to a lot of times, we putso much into the into the
platform like I like you I'malways in these podcast groups
and things like that. And thequestion always comes about
hosting service, you know, whereshould I be hosted? Where should
I be hosted? And while I have myown personal opinions, I just
don't think that that's a dealbreaker, like just go where it

(25:10):
makes sense to you. And, youknow, for me, I just like a lot
of control over my SEO, I'm atotal SEO geek and so, so I'm
super happy, you know, with someover the other Spreaker. I don't
even know of enough about toeven I, but I've tested a lot.
And that's always my first thingis like, How much control do I

(25:32):
have over the SEO portion ofthings? So but with Spreaker? So
do you get a piece of the pie?Or does the ads do the ads help
offset your costs?

So you do get a piece of the pie. Like they have
a monetization feature wherethey'll it'll pay you out? Every
time that you reach $10? Orsomething? And it'll just go
into your PayPal account?

Oh, okay. That's cool. And then also, so
now your branding strategy? Isit like your branding yourself?
Would you say? Or like, what isit that you're trying what you
know? Because usually, is therea, what am I trying to ask? Is
there a, like a buildingauthority type piece to your

(26:17):
desire for getting a biggeraudience for your desire of
having a podcast? Is that partof your what you want to get out
of the show?

When I started, it was just to get back into,
you know, into radio, really, itwas just to get back behind the
microphone, because I thought itwould be fun, and to hear other
people's stories, and now it'stransitioned more into hearing
their stories, but I do want toestablish myself as an authority
so that I, you know, I cancontinue speaking on other

(26:49):
people's shows, and get moreopportunities to speak because
the more people that carry yourvoice, the more people want to
do business with you. So it hasturned into me wanting to have
more of that authority piece. Iknow that probably means me
doing more solo episodes thandoing like the guest episodes.
But yeah, again, that's, that'swhat I guess were one of my

(27:11):
biggest hurdles. This is becauseI just like talking to other
people and hearing from them, asopposed to just hearing myself
talk for 20 minutes.

Well, I give you permission that you never
have to do a solo episode, ifyou don't want to. I know a lot
of people do. I've seen it donereally successfully where, in
fact, one of my former mentors,he is huge in marketing in the
marketing space. And he has aweekly interview show. I mean,
he has a show, but he weekly heinterviews and then daily, he's

(27:43):
got like a quick 10 minute,boom, this is what you do. And
you have seen other podcasterswill where they will do the solo
episode, you know, once a weekright after right before their
interview episode for myself,like I really, I'm with you, if
it weren't for therelationships, I would probably

(28:04):
not podcast, there's a lot ofways to build authority. I mean,
there's YouTube, there's, youknow, like you said, there's
clubhouse, which is, you know, asister thing too, it's really
almost the same thing. Butultimately, it's, you know, what
is really going to get you whatyou're looking for. And that's
why I think it's reallyimportant to know what it is

(28:24):
that you're looking for. And,you know, while it's, you know,
and honestly, I'm just like,honestly, whenever I hear, I
know, we all want to do good,right. So like for myself, I do
podcasting because I think it'sreally great for people to start
a business and then to step outand do a podcast, it's huge. So
to be any kind of part in that Ijust want to do what I can and

(28:45):
the fact that it can be mybusiness, it's just a dream come
true. However, I still have topay the bills. Like, I just have
seen that too often. podcastersget into this altruistic space
where they're not beingrealistic that they have to get
something out of it themselves.It's just I don't see it as
sustainable. And I, you know,more and more I'm hearing

(29:06):
podcasts are say, Oh, well, thatreally is it and, and I've been
podcasting for four years. Andthen I look at all of their
profiles. I'm like, Dude, you'reseriously getting more out of it
than you're saying, you know, ifwe're being honest, we have to
get something out of it.Otherwise, there's a lot of ways
to do the same thing. So. So I,you know, honestly, the thing
about podcasting with otherpeople, and you've seen it is

(29:29):
it's such a synergy growthmodel. So you have this person
that's on your show that peopleare looking for, even if they
have 10 people looking for them.It's 10 more people looking for
them online. So there's someonesearching their name on Google,
it's 10 More people than youwould have had if that person
wasn't on your show. Soultimately, it's an exponential

(29:50):
potential for growth just byhaving them on your show. The
other thing is, is having thetwo voices I feel is more
interesting. I personally unlessit's like Tony Robins are
somebody like, Ryan serhant,like, I've got my shows that I
love, I could listen to themjust talk. Otherwise, I can't.

(30:10):
It's just, you know, like,they're just crazy humans and so
they can get something out oftheir personalities that are
multiple personalities. But forthe most part you have like,
it's just better. And I knowI've read studies on that how to
voices will make in your, inyour in radio. So you've
probably heard all this before,you could probably quote the
data on that. But so I love

since I was actually in the radio.

But the thing is, like, you know what I'm
saying though, it really there'sso many, so much value to having
the guests on your show. Andwe'll talk about a little bit
more about this later to justthe opportunities that you're in
fact, we'll just talk about itnow. Are there? Have you been a
like, have you converted guestsinto like, clients, or
collaborators or anything downthat road?

Yes. And that I think was when I, when I signed
my first client, after havingthem be a guest on the show, I
was like, this is a great ideato try and, you know, get them
to convert into being a clientafter this. And so by shifting
the format and having theseother digital marketing experts
come on, and kind of cutting myopportunities to have these

(31:19):
potential clients come in inhalf every month. And then, you
know, with the world opening upagain, it's gotten harder to
find more local businesses tocome on to the show. So it's,
it's kind of one of the thingsthat I'm like, I'm having a
harder time all sorts of digitalmarketing experts want to come
on my show, but those aren't theones that are going to pay me to

(31:41):
work for them, really.

So are you having so you're having trouble
getting the local people ontoyour show? Like they're busy? Or
they're what are the reasonsthat you're having trouble
getting them on?

I think that one of the biggest reasons is just
the time, a lot of them. Themost recent one, you know, I
said, Hey, I'd love to have youcome on the show. And she would
be a great guest. Oh, mygoodness, one. She's, she's
very, very smart. And she andI've had the opportunity to talk
a couple times, like, I justneed you to come on, and so I
can get you recorded. And shesaid no, this last time because

(32:16):
she's gonna get ready to move.And she said no, the time
before, because she didn't havea headshot done for their social
media graphic. And I was like,please just come on. And you
know, but it's, I mean thatpodcasting isn't for everyone,
not everyone feels comfortablespeaking. And, you know, being
put on the spot. And so that'sjust been one of the hardest

(32:37):
things is finding these businessowners that have the time, even
though it's only a 30 minutepodcast, just carving out 30
minutes of their day from doingbusiness for their business to
come and talk about it. It'skind of asking a lot right now
as as the world starts pickingup steam again.

Yeah. 100%. That's an that's so good that
you've already seen thatopportunity. So. So if you were,
if you were able to get localbusinesses, just week after
week, would you still want tobring in the high the big name
marketers? Or would you feellike no, I would just fill my
whole calendar with locals.

I probably would just fill my whole calendar with
locals. I do really well. Ireally like their stories. And I
mean, one of the best gueststhat I had. His name is Kyle
wells. guys wanted to check thatepisode out. It was one of my
first ones, one of the veryfirst up so I mean, I don't
sound very good. But theconversation was fantastic. And

(33:38):
he's a local coffee shop ownerhere in Denver. And it was right
during the shutdown. And he's alocal coffee shop, how was he
going to be able to still payhis bills and pay his employees.
And some of the marketing tipsthat he shared? Were just
fantastic. And I was like,everyone needs to hear this
because what you did, you did itthe right way. So he talked

(34:03):
about joining Facebook groupsthat where his coffee shop was
located, he joined thoseFacebook groups that was
community, those neighborhoods,Facebook groups, and he joined
them and started contributingthe conversation like, Hey,
we're going to try and just openlike, for two hours a day, what
two hours would be the best foryou guys to come to the shop,
and he immersed themselves inthose in those communities. And

(34:26):
that way, he was able to justopen for a couple hours a day
still bring in some money. Buthe was busy the whole time. He
wasn't just like, throwing adart at a wall. I mean, like, I
hope people come. And so I thinkthat was such a great strategy
of how to use Facebook the rightway for free. That I think that
it's like how this is the stuffthat people need to hear about.

(34:47):
And that doesn't mean like I'mstill getting excited talking
about history because it wassuch a good idea. And I love
those those stories like thatbecause you never know what
simple thing that gives us likeoh yeah, why? I had to do
something. But that might belike something else that someone
else needed to hear. And theycan go try and do it themselves.
Yeah,

I love that. Well, and that leads me to, to
ask, have you used Face- I knowyou're not on Facebook very much
it sounds like but have you useFacebook or other groups of
Denver businesses like Denverbusiness focused groups to get
in there and talk about yourshow? Or not about your show,

(35:29):
but like, enter, like what hedid, like inject yourself into
the conversation, just so thatpeople know you're there. And,
you know, gets

the lightbulb I don't know if you can see it, it
just above my head when you'retalking. Right now, the light
bulb just went on? Yeah. It wasoff this whole time, despite me
just going off about what abrilliant idea it was for him to
do that spin off for me.

I love something as simple as that. You
might have to go on Facebook alittle bit, then but but it's so
worth it. Because those groupsreally, it's a different
environment than if you're juston Facebook, you know, you're
really like minded space. Andlike what he did, like you said,
is brilliant, because he used itas a focus group, you know,
versus just, and it's, and it'salways about giving more than

(36:18):
you take with your social media.So you understand that. But
yeah, I think that that that'ssuper powerful. And then also, I
see that you have a blog have doyou have you considered like
shownotes or anything or addinganything like that to your, your
blog,

I would love to is just, I've tried a couple of
different sites. But I didn'tlike the way it read. And then
the cost of producing thepodcast and paying for Spreaker
and then paying for thetranscription, and then setting

(36:56):
aside the time to upload it. Itjust wasn't cost effective for
me to do it, even though I knowit would make so much sense. And
I really should, I would loveactually for each of my guests
to have their own page on mywebsite with the transcription
and their individual episode. Ijust don't have the time or, or
the personnel to set that up forme.

Gotcha. Gotcha. And, um, let's see,
there's, I kind of have thislist of things like okay, do we
have this? Do you have this likemy little inventory? So we've
got the groups and the forums.And then on social media, what
link do you typically sendpeople to if you're like, hey,
go listen to our show.

So I'm on when I send it to my, as my guest, I
give them the links for Applepodcasts, Spotify, and then
Spreaker. So they can sharewhichever one that they want to
share. And then for me, I havejust going straight to my next
step, socialcommunications.com/podcast.

Awesome. Love it. That makes me very happy. To
say, no, no, I mean, ideally,you would have a blog page on
your own website, and thenpeople would go straight to that
episode. But honestly, like whenI'm short handing things is what
I call it when I'm not doing allof the things because none of us

(38:17):
do all of the things. But I'llsend it to that page, the same
as what you're doing the podcastpage, because then you're in
full control of it, you're notpaying, you know, I mean, you
put in time and money into italready. You just said it. And
then to send it to Spreaker Ithurts my guts. Like I literally
feel like I mean, I don't careif it's Libson, Spreaker. And
you know, anchor, they are doinggood. Like they don't need you

(38:41):
guys paying for their marketing,you know, so so it just makes me
really happy. So awesome. So onemore question before we move on
to the next section. What havebeen the most effective ways
that you've attracted listenersso far?

Social media. Clubhouse.

Can you be- tell me more about it? Okay.
clubhouse. How do you? Yeah. Sofirst of all, for everybody
who's listening to the show, andyou've never heard of clubhouse
I just in fact, Katie, I watchedyour YouTube video and two
things. So I kind of sidetrackedright now but like two things.
Number one, I do want to talkabout clubhouse and what that is
and what that means topodcasting because it's huge,

(39:22):
and a half the you know, 90% ofthe world I think is asleep on
this but so I'm so excited thatyou are in clubhouse. very
rarely do I interview someonewho is so I want to spend a
couple minutes talking aboutthat before we transition. But
before I do my space what Iwatched your video and and he
was asking you all about like ohmy space. I heard that that's a

(39:44):
thing. And you were talkingabout how it's really good with
entertainers. I mean, are youwhen did that happen? Was there
some kind of transition? And doyou think that that, like,
should we care about that?

So well, I got started back with social media
back in the days of MySpace Sothat's what I was doing for
bands when I was at the radiostation in college. And one of
the jobs at the college, whenyou were a music director there
was you had to get musicians tosend you their music for free,
because we're not going to payroyalties or anything. So we

(40:15):
were writing all these lettersand everything like that. And
then we, I was like, well, thisseems like it's gonna take
forever for me to get in. Ithink they'd get like 50 pieces,
or 50 records or singles persemester and was like, This is
gonna take forever. So I waslike, Well, why don't I just go
on MySpace. And so I startednetworking on MySpace, and I was
getting stuff left and right.And I had like, 100 pieces come

(40:37):
in, within like the first like,three weeks and the station
manager was like, Katie, how areyou getting all this music sent
into the station, and I waslike, I'm just using my space.
And so I can feed all thosecontacts. And I started getting
them to come onto the my show,because I had my own show at the
radio station, I started gettingthese musicians to come and be a

(40:57):
guest on the show, and I wouldinterview them. And from there,
I was like, hey, you know, ifyou want to go on other radio
stations, I know other, youknow, station managers. And so I
started sending out their music.Anyways, long story short,
that's when I got started insocial media was using MySpace
and helping these musicians getoff of MySpace and actually on

(41:18):
to the radio airwaves. And I,you know, I never stopped
really, I still so

MySpace is not dead. That's amazing.

It's still it is still around. And, you know,
it's, it was the first that Imean, okay. And let's be real,
like, it was the very firstsocial media platform out there.
And, you know, Facebook at thetime was just for colleges, and
universities, and I don't thinkany of us would have seen the
way that social media wouldaffect our, our lives and our

(41:49):
businesses. With, you know, thegood old time wave in, you know,
as everyone's first MySpacefriends.

Exactly. That's so awesome. So let's talk
about clubhouse. So for anyonewho hasn't heard of it, it is
social audio. So you can go inyou can, different people start
different rooms. And it's, it'sjust moving and changing, you
can plan ahead and have a roomor you can do it right on the

(42:18):
spot. And what I mean by a roomis, you know, you start a topic,
and you have a title, andthey're going to start talking
about it. And people come andcome in and they're listening,
they can raise their hand, youcan bring them up on stage,
meaning that they have access toturning their microphone on,
which they don't have withoutyour permission, which is
awesome. And so really, allthese years, we've been just

(42:39):
eager to be able to bring ouraudiences into the show with us.
And we've tried everything we'vetried. You'll live video and all
these different things with theidea of truly having a podcast
type format, with thisinteraction, I think is really
groundbreaking do I you know,and I've got my own opinions
about clubhouse, just likeeverybody has opinions about

(42:59):
every social media. But I'msuper fascinated to hear how
you've used clubhouse to growyour podcast.

Well, it's clubhouse, I've completely
changed my business. It's itreally is like LinkedIn on
steroids. Because, and you knowthis as a podcaster, when you
have the opportunity to hearsomeone speak or to have a
conversation with them, it canmove the customer journey along

(43:30):
at lightning speed, it can go somuch faster when you are able to
actually hear someone speakbecause I mean, I know that this
is kind of like the pot callingthe kettle black. But I mean in
so with social media, if you ifyou if someone has a lot of
beautiful photos, and the righthashtags and the right person
writing their captions, it canlook like they like they know

(43:52):
what they're talking about. Butwith clubhouse with and with
podcasting, you have theopportunity to actually hear
someone speak to theirknowledge. And I think that
that's why it's been such a gamechanger for me, because, you
know, I up until last October,even though I've been doing
social media for 17 years, Inever had my own social media

(44:14):
accounts, because I was alwaysdoing it for other people. And
when I decided okay, it'sprobably about time for me to
have my own social media. Istill wasn't gaining traction
like it was for my clientsbecause I wasn't putting the
time and the effort into it. Iwasn't using the right hashtags.
I was doing everything wrong formyself, but that's a whole
nother podcast for another day.But when I got on clubhouse and
just started sharing tips andadvice and my thoughts on

(44:38):
things, I started gaining allthese followers and I started
having people reaching out to todo business and do strategy
sessions and it really 100%transformed my business and it
was again the opportunity for meto just speak to my expertise,
stuff that I've been doing for17 years. And by being on
clubhouse I want to One I speakon social media a lot, but too

(45:01):
I talk about podcasting a lot.And how to get booked on other
people's podcasts how to startyour podcast, you know,
answering questions like, thisis the mistake that I made,
don't do it, you know. So itjust being there to have those
real time conversations withpeople is great, because then
the second that the room is overon clubhouse, that's it, can't

(45:23):
go back, you can't watch it, youcan't listen to it again. And so
it gives that FOMO the fear ofmissing out. So people want to
make sure that they follow you,or like, oh, man, I just heard
the last five minutes of whatshe was saying. She said she had
a podcast, I want to go listento the full thing. And, and
that's what's really helped mymy, my show is that I will go in

(45:43):
and I've been trying to getpeople who they're also on
clubhouse, hey, do you want tojust do a 10 minute room and
kind of tease what we talkedabout. And then from there, then
they go and listen to the fullpodcast. And they've had that
opportunity to kind of hear fromboth of us in real time. And
then the rest is amazing.

So you guys, you'll team up with your guest
and then say like, Hey, let's gotalk about it. And you talk
about the same thing that youtalked about on the show, but
you tease it? How like, how isthat received? You advertise
that you just like show up? Andthen people come into your room?
I mean, how do you make that gofrom like, YouTube, and no more

(46:23):
into like a roomful of people.

So um, so I'm all about strategy, and nothing
is just done on a whim. So I'vescheduled every single room that
I host, even if it's gonna goout in five minutes, I scheduled
every single one because thenyou get that shareable link. And
you can share it with the restof your audience that you have
on these other social mediaplatforms. So I share it and you

(46:50):
know, we go in a lot of times,I'll do an Instagram live before
the clubhouse room, gettingready to go into clubhouse. Now
come join us. This is what we'regoing to talk about. Go into the
room, we have a conversation.And then if anyone has any
questions, if you've alreadylistened to the episode, go
ahead and raise your hand comeon up or you have any questions
about it. Last episode was emailmarketing. Do you have any
questions about email marketingfor Jenny? Go ahead and raise

(47:12):
your hand and then from there, Istill kind of established myself
as the authority and and ask theguests the questions and bring
people up and down from theaudience. Hey, you know,
Tiffany, what's your questionfor on email marketing for Jenny
today? Jenny can answer and thenI follow up with my thoughts to
what she just said. So it'sreally helped me establish

(47:32):
myself as an authority and kindof have that live element to my
podcast.

I love that. Okay, well, I should probably
get back to like what we startedto do.

I've been talking about clubhouse all day.

I know I know. And I feel like yeah, that's
definitely a whole notherepisode. Maybe I'll have to have
you back and we can just talkabout clubhouse but or we can do
a room on clubhouse and just inGive me all your pointers but
but I love that and then haveyou are you on fireside or have
you heard a fireside?

I am on fireside but I'm still they still won't
let me make my own chats I canonly listen or join.

Okay, well maybe we should team up into one
because yes I mean I lovefireside it's so different to so
fireside it isn't even I keepcalling it social audio, but
it's not really social audio.It's more like a TV studio
audience without cameras,although, you know, they're
coming out with video at somepoint. But ultimately, it's a

(48:30):
lot more controlled. So it's it.You know, it's less Twitter and
more LinkedIn, you know, where,because I feel like clubhouse is
a little more twittery you know,like, it's a lot of like just a
lot and it's hard to discern,you know, where safe and where
it's not safe. And then withfireside, it's a lot more
protected. They've got a clearvision about where they want it

(48:53):
to go and things like that. So Iknow but again, it's it's such
the infant stage that it's hardto get in. So I've had guests on
this show because exactly whatyou're talking about, about
teasing the show, I thought Iwant to bring my guests onto
fireside and have thisconversation of like, okay, so
did you know here's the list ofthings, you of course have like

(49:14):
a 30 day out and here's a listof things to do. Did you do them
and what happened? You know,kind of or what what struggles
Did you run into what stops youfrom being able to do it so but
but you know, it's just it we'regetting there. We're so close to
being able to communicate withour audience. So I love it. So
thank you for that whole littleside path. But I really

(49:36):
appreciate your and the end youwere saying that that is so do
you would you say that clubhousehas been the most effective way
to track listener so far? Or isthere anything else?

It's it's been a great way to attract great
guests who get about sharing thepodcast.

Okay. Okay, so how would you say you've grown
your audience the best?

My audience is pretty stagnant. Honestly, it's
it's right around like this.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. But you, but you do
have an audience. So where woulddo you have any idea where they
came from? Is it just it all thethings you're doing all the
things right? They're bound tocome kind of a thing.

You got? Yeah, that's I guess that's where I'm
at right now, as I'm like, Man,I'm doing all the right things.
I just, I just want it. I justwant more people to listen to
it.

Want more sooner for sure. Okay, well,
awesome. Let me see. I thinkthat is it. So before I
transition, is there anythingelse that you want to add,
before we move into this nextphase where we talk about kind
of my take and get your feedbackand get some good next steps for
this?

I'm good. I mean, I can tell you that
geolocation of majority of mylisteners, but I don't know if
it really makes a difference.

Are they in? Where you would think it would
be? Like, are they mostly local?

Uhm the majority are local? And then next is
Massachusetts, followed byIllinois? And yeah, but most of
them are all here in Colorado,which is encouraging.

Yeah. Well, and ultimately, your audience,
you know, unless you're a couplethings, one is, you're going to
grow your audience, because thetopics are interesting and
helpful to everybody, no matterwhere they are. And so that
quality content, and how you'respreading it, it's going to be
attractive to other areas.Ultimately, it goes back to what

(51:41):
are you trying to get out ofyour show? So what, you know,
like, just, if we know thatmore, just about half of adult,
US citizens listen to podcasts,then you would imagine that you
would want you know, that's,that's a good grounding point of
like, what? You know whatnumbers look good in the Denver

(52:04):
area of listeners, like whatkind of market share you have
based on that? I would, that'swhat I, but again, you know, and
this is one thing, I haven'teven brought up this episode.
And I always, always, always sayit is like, the download data is
terrible. Unless you put a lotinto having the fancy metric
analysis type stuff. So, so evenhaving said that, usually, when

(52:26):
we're looking at downloads,we're looking at trends. So like
you were saying, it's like,here's where the trendline is,
it's kind of fallen flat. Buthow do we get that trendline?
Moving? What kind of things dopeople respond to? But I would
say ultimately, market share, Idon't know if I would heavily
rely on download data. But butthat is, that is interest. I'm
glad that most of the people whoare listening are the people

(52:46):
that you exactly want

me too. Yeah, I'm glad they're not all in the
UK, or the Philippines orsomething. Or

Scotland or something. Yeah, I think I was I
think the first place I everranked was like Scotland or
something like that. I was like,Okay, well, thanks, guys, but
come on US. But anyway, well, ifit's okay with you, we're going
to move into the next phase,which is I want to talk about

(53:13):
number one things that I seethat you're doing really well,
which there are a lot of them.Number two, some areas of
opportunity. And number three,what is something that you can
do and see results in the next30 days? Is that good? Are you
ready?

Sounds good.

All right. Awesome. So before I do, I just
I always like to start outtalking about the four P's of
preeminence number one is toknow your purpose, which is why
we talked about the why at thebeginning. You know, without it,
it's it's just not sustainable.As you know, we need to know why
we're doing something.Otherwise, all the hard stuff

(53:46):
just gets in the way. The secondP is to know your people and
really dial in on your audiencemessaging, and I'm sure that
that's something that is yoursweet spot, being in the social
media realm. Number three is tooptimize the promotion of your
show. So all that you know,you've got the website, you've
got all these assets. So how dowe take that and use it so that

(54:06):
you're getting the most out ofit for the least amount of
resources, so that you'regrowing your audience with what
you have. And number four is toearn proceeds. Ultimately, if we
don't make money at podcasting,all of the things like writing
blog posts, promoting it,getting it to stop flatlining
becomes frustrating, because wedon't have resources to put it

(54:28):
in because you have a job likepodcasting works. And so you're
getting busier because you'repodcasting. So, so turning that
into something that you'remeasuring and able to see like,
okay, the more that I'm doingthis, the more that I'm growing
my audience, the more profitthat I'm making, the more I can
pass some of these tasks on sothat all you have to do is show

(54:52):
up and do your cool interviews.Does that make sense?

Sure thing

Okay, perfect. So I really Um, you know,
especially listening to yourshow ahead of time, your sound
is awesome. So very nice, veryprofessional, I have to say to I
watched that video and yourbackground, a backdrop. And if
you're listening to this, Irecommend it. It's a great
interview. So when you go toKitty show next step, social

(55:20):
communications, and you go tothe podcast page, you scroll
down, and there's a YouTubevideo, and it's awesome. But
your backdrop is phenomenal. Iwas super jelly of that, that
was awesome. And then also, yourwebsite is just so clean. It's
just, it doesn't, you know, alot of times, I'll go and
there's just so many things. Andyou can just really see that

(55:42):
your podcast is an integrationinto what you do for a living.
And I really liked that too,because it's hard when our
podcast is so separate from whatwe're doing. It's like, it's
just hard for people to makethat leap back over into our
business. And I think you'veintegrated it all really, really
well. And your pictures arephenomenal. So great job on

(56:03):
your, your branding, I know thatthat's a big part of it. So I
love that on your social media,people can it's like people can
just get to know you, becauseit's always pictures of you.
It's not a boring logo that noone can connect with. So you
make it really easy for peopleto connect with you, as well.
So, and your your guests areawesome, so that I listened to a

(56:27):
couple episodes. And both ofthem I felt you ask really great
questions. I cannot always makeit through a whole episode. And
I actually listen to a wholeepisode today. So usually what
I'll do is I'm like, I need tohear the beginning. I need to
get the gist of it. Not onlybecause I listened to a ton I
every time I do these, theseinterviews, I'm listening to all
these episodes. And so I'm like,yep, email marketing. Yep, I

(56:50):
know. Okay, so skip, skip, skip.And, and so I was really
delighted with the the value ofthe content and you keep it to
30 minutes. Now, I will sayusually I keep mine to 30
minutes with the hot seats Inever do. Because it's not like
a normal podcast where it'slike, I you know, I need to keep
the listener happy the wholetime. I'm like, I made a promise

(57:10):
to you before the show, I madetwo promises. One was that I
would be prepared. And two isthat I would give you actionable
tips at the end. And, you know,it just makes for a long show.
But I love that you are at 30minutes, I felt like it just was
a really nice length. Any,

I think it's that I would just say I'm glad
that you liked the 30 Minutelength, because I tried to keep
it to between 20 and 30 minutes,because that's how long I can
run on the treadmill. And like,if I can listen to a full
episode, then I did it. And it'svery achievable.

So that's awesome. That was a great rule
of thumb. Yeah. I love it. It'slike you're encouraging exercise
and keeping a great length atthe same time. Okay, the next
part, I'm going to talk aboutjust areas of opportunity, it's
not gonna be a surprise, becausewe were talking about it
throughout the whole thing. Iwouldn't say any of them are,

(58:02):
well, one of them is ultimatelygoing to be the thing I suggest
to do right away if you can, butthey're not like I wouldn't say
go do all these things. In fact,I highly recommend not I, you
know, I think it's great tofocus, get one thing
accomplished, move to the nextthing. But I do want to kind of
give you a broad broad stroke ofit, because I feel like

(58:23):
sometimes I'll get to the end.And I'll be like, Okay, this is
the one thing and someone'slike, Yeah, I'm not doing that.
It's like, okay, great, becauseI gave you five other things. So
let's do one of those, you know,so I like just to give you but
there's no priority, I wouldn'tsay any of them are urgent at
this point. So the first thingis the blog. The biggest thing

(58:43):
about the blog is that it issuch a driver for new listeners,
our our blog site, thedownloads, the listens that we
get, the bulk of them come frompeople going to our page. So
when I post, you know, probablysimilar to what you're doing,
where it's like, Hey, I talkedto this person or on clubhouse,

(59:06):
you know, hey, you know, this iswhat we're talking about is
where our show is about, here'sthe link to that episode, they
go right to it, there's an embedwith just that episode on it,
and then they're introduced toyour whole show. So then it's
like, oh, so what else is there?Also, I always feel like your
website, like every single pageis is like a really important

(59:26):
employee and it should have agoal and the tools to do it. So
just kind of that next step. Soif someone wanted to work with
you, what would that look like?What would you know? Because as
they're listening to you, andthey're learning to trust you
and really, you know, like youwere saying on clubhouse where
they're like, oh, wow, I canreally hear you know your stuff.

(59:47):
So I would really because trustis really what people are
looking for, especially inmarketing, right? Construction
and marketing. They're alwayslike, you know, you can find you
know, all these people to helpyou but Once they connect with
you, they're going to want toknow what can I do next. And so,
as you know, people have veryshort attention spans. And so as

(01:00:08):
soon as they feel that way, andthey don't see how to do it
easily, they're going to move onto the next thing. So just
finding a way to capture it whenyou've got their interest piqued
would be one thing. Anythingabout that before? I know that
there are limitations?

Katie Brinkley (01:00:24):
No. And I think that that's one of the things

Tiffany Youngren (01:00:24):
There's a lot of ways to do it. There are a
too, where it's just so i mean,with each page, would you think
it'd be best to add all thesepodcast episodes in as blogs? So
lot of ways to do this. And thisis one thing I like about it,
like, on under my blog account,like, I don't remember, this
week's episode, email sent withJenny right would be its own

(01:00:48):
blog, the embedded Spreakerwould be on that page, and then
the entire transcription.
especially since you're astrategy girl. And I test this
all the time, like, honestly, myshow is it's always testing I in

(01:01:08):
fact, a lot of times my familycomplains, because I'm always
like, Oh, I've got to do anotherepisode. And because I'm always
just like, Oh, but I want to seewhat's going to happen with
these others. And right now I'mtesting. Let's see, two months
ago, if you'd asked me I wastesting, having a place like
content fly, write my blogposts, and having a place having
an AI machine called Jarvisright, my podcast episodes. And

(01:01:34):
I don't didn't like theexperience with the AI. So. So
there are a lot. But having saidthat, my point is, is that
there's a lot of ways to do it,you can either have like a full
on blog post written, you canhave the transcription kind of
cleaned up and embedded. Thebiggest thing, number one is
probably they're not going toread it all. But because you

(01:01:57):
have all that content, if theygo there, they're going to see
it. So you want it to be onbrand. But all that that is such
good SEO, right. And so you haveall this rich content that
you've created already. So it'sjust a matter of how much can
you do to develop it? Like howfar can you take it, to get it
to be that really importantemployee? Sometimes we're hiring

(01:02:19):
a VA blog posts are the sameway. You know, sometimes we're
just starting with thetranscription because we're
like, I just want someonegetting on this page, because
they're going to end uplistening to it. They're not
going to want to read all thisOh, okay. Well, you know, lines
where you're like, I don't wantto read this whole thing. So
again, that's one more download,because they downloaded it right
from there. So it's getting themthere from Google. And based on

(01:02:41):
a topic you talked about. So ifsomeone's like, oh, I want to
learn more about emailmarketing, you know, what, you
know, what is the best way towrite a subject line or
something, and then boom, upcomes this transcription. And
then they're like, Oh, it's apodcast. And they can either
read it, or they can listen toit. And then it's like, okay,
you want to know more about it,you can either listen to another
episode, or you can send me youknow, engage in the next step of

(01:03:06):
working with me. But then ifyou're like, well, now I want to
upgrade, like, I'm all aboutstarting simple. And then oh, my
gosh, I'm getting traction,let's upgrade it. So just like
on a regular website, if all ofa sudden an article is getting a
lot of traction, I usually willsend it to an expensive writer.
And I'll be like, Okay, we needto rewrite this page, so that

(01:03:27):
it's legitimately an articleabout this topic based on my
conversation with this person.Or, for example, you know, if
you have something in yourformat, like, let's say, you're
revising season two, and you'relike, Well, I'm revamping my
format, and we're going to havethis special feature at the end.
Well, maybe your blog post isjust about the special feature,

(01:03:47):
like one thing that we'reconsidering is, you know,
writing blog posts on what theoutcomes are of the hot seats,
you know, things like that. Soit's like how, but it's just
about getting that episodeembedded in something that's got
that rich content for the SEOand the call to action, so that
you're taking them to the nextstep. Does that make sense? Does

(01:04:07):
that answer your question? No.

Yeah, it makes perfect sense. I just, that's
just where from me since I'm notmonetizing my podcast at all
right now. I mean, I guess Ishouldn't say that, because I
have close clients from it. Butat the same time, I don't feel
like I'm monetizing. Yeah, foras much time that goes in. I
just for me looking at it'slike, gosh, how much more should
I be spending to to get thetranscriptions for it, or to

(01:04:31):
have someone write for it, andthen have my assistant then
upload it to the website? Youknow, that's all the things
where I'm like,

Yeah, well, in in to, after this, after this
interview, I'm going to send youmy budget calculator because I
actually have a spreadsheetwhere you can plug in, you know,
how much it would cost dependingon the different choices that
you make when it comes to that.And it's not even really related
to my services anymore. It'sreally just One thing that I

(01:05:01):
give to my clients usually, butit's so helpful, but the biggest
thing is, is really looking atthe ROI. So if you looked at it,
like, if you didn't have yourpodcast, and you weren't meeting
all these people, and youweren't picking them up as
clients, you wouldn't have themas clients. So you legitimately
are pulling an ROI. So and thenyou said the words like, but for

(01:05:22):
all the work, it doesn't feellike I'm getting all this. So I
just think it's a math problemas a business owner that I would
sit down and do because how, youknow, if you like, you're gonna
have to make a choice at somepoint, like, do I want to invest
something to like, you know,take it to the next level? Or do
I constantly want to feel likeit's an expense that I'm

(01:05:44):
splurging on or something? Doesthat make sense? Is that
helpful? It

makes perfect sense. Yeah, it makes perfect
sense. Yeah. Yeah. So

that's what I would. Because for me, my number
one monetization. When I startedpodcasting, my, my second
podcast was all about realestate agents. And I only
interviewed people that I wantedas clients. And so they
converted into clients. I alsolike real estate. So it was
really fun to talk about realestate with people who are
awesome. But ultimately, Iwanted to work with them. That's

(01:06:11):
the kind of person I wanted towork with. And so when I got a
client, I knew that was ROI.Because that's why like, that
was my outcome. And so but Ialso, then I didn't have to
think about anymore, then it wasall about the guest, then it was
all about how can I make thisexperience? Great. So So again,
it's just I think, a mind setkind of in, I think, to you
deserve to sit down and see whatyou're really getting out of

(01:06:32):
your show as well. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's very valid points. Yeah.

The other thing that I was thinking, when
I was listening to it, the verybeginning is such an important
spot in your show. So you thinkabout your titles are awesome.
And so when people are searchingfor your show, and they're
finding it, and I'm like, Oh mygosh, that's an amazing title.
And then they like yourdescription, they're like, Whoa,
I totally want to listen to it.But then the first thing is just
like ads, it's just tough tokeep them, especially in a world

(01:07:01):
where they're like, over 2million podcasts now, and so
that first 30 to 60 seconds isjust so valuable. So even if
you're able to bump, you know,just how, like a caption, you
know, like a snippet from theshow, just to kind of hook them
and then do the ad or somethinglike that, just to kind of help

(01:07:21):
optimize, because you've workedso hard to get them there. But
just to keep them there so thattheir return, you know, without
listening to more of the show ishard to get them as return
listeners what we

so well, and that's what I was gonna say,
too. So with the very first ad,that speaker does, I can't
choose the placement of

Okay.

So what did you suggest then? Just getting rid
of ads altogether?

Can you not have the first ad at all? Can
you just like, like, Ipersonally would, unless you see
it? I mean, if it's like, do youget more than $10 a month?

That's what I make.

Okay, $10 a month. Okay, so and then I would
just look at my, my ROI. And I'dbe like, if I had into like, the
other side of it is like, why doyou want more listeners to,
like, when I had my real estateshow, I was like, I just want to
be everybody on my show. And Ionly get listeners to make my
guests happy. That's the onlyreason and so I did a ton of

(01:08:25):
promotion, I made all this greatcontent for them to use if they
wanted to, which they didn't.But they exactly. And then some
of them did, though, so Ishouldn't say that. But um, but
ultimately, I wanted to meetthem. So I kept my promise and
gave them all this great stuff,all this great promotion, got it
out. And my audience did grow,because those are all the right

(01:08:45):
things. But, but ultimately, Ididn't, like I didn't care. I
just wanted to meet them becauseI knew that these I was building
my business based on meeting theright people. So the other side
of it is is like, if that's yourapproach, I mean, number one,
you're gonna make a lot moremoney converting guests into

(01:09:08):
clients than you ever will waswith the ads. You know,
ultimately, that's so true,especially if you have a local
like you have a local market. Sothat even like, there's only
like, so a and you I think yourshow is just going to still grow
globally, but but if you're ifyour focus is that it's a local

(01:09:28):
market. I just think you'reyou're sacrificing so much show
quality because your showsgreat. And I would just want to
get them right into it. I justfeel like it's hurting your
ability to just make that ashorter line. But that's my so
like,

No, I love that. No, and it's really, really
appreciated feedback. Becausethat's a very simple thing that
I can just click a little buttonand turn off the ads with that
and the ads If I turn them off,we're starting with something
juicy, or would you recommendstarting with like, a, like a

(01:10:07):
32nd clip from the show and thengoing into the intro instead of
just starting with the sameintro, that's, you know, with
the music and everything.

You know, I, there's, I mean, there's a lot
of successful ways to do it. JoeRogan just starts talking. But
you know, he's Joe Rogan. So Imean, there's that, however, the
so I interview a lot of peopletoo, with a lot of listeners,
which is impressive, because Ifeel like wow, you. Like, you're
amazing, like, why are you here.But ultimately, the one thing

(01:10:38):
that I hear them all say is, itneeds to be kind of a surprise.
So if you if you have like,always start with a cold open,
so always start with a clip. Butthen if you have like, for me,
if I were you, I would be havethat whole thing where it's
like, Hey, this is what I do. Ifyou like what you hear, this is
how you get a hold of me, andthen boom, go into it. And if

(01:10:58):
you're able to keep all thatconcise, then they're going to
continue because it's happeningreally quickly. But if you have
like your own regular ad, andone thing I haven't started
doing yet, because I'm kind ofstill at the Keep It Simple
thing, we have the cold open thethe ad, not the ad, but like the
Hi, I'm Tiffany and this is whatwe do. And this is and then, and

(01:11:19):
then we go into the music, andthen the start, but it honestly,
I've heard it every way frompeople at a wide variety of
stages. But the consistent isthe clip at the beginning and
capturing and then keepinganything between the clip and
the beginning of your show asshort as possible, or even

(01:11:40):
spreading it out. So that youknow, you just have your music
and then like maybe threeminutes and have your, you know,
little blurb about what you do.But you know, just kind of mess
around with it. Because theultimately if it like I said, if
it's short people just have ashort attention span. Is that
helpful?

No, it's extremely helpful. And my wheels
are turning on two differentways that I can try and three
different ways I can try and dothat.

Well, in getting feedback is going to be
really helpful. So the closeryou can get between where you
are right now, and then beingintegrated into the community of
people who listen to your showis going to help you a lot
because just like what you'resharing about earlier in that
group, you know, being able toask people like the coffee shop
did where it's like, hey, how doyou like it better? You know,
like a half? This, so wherewould you you know, say it and,

(01:12:29):
and they'll be able to tell you,so I think that would be good.
And then two, I just want to be,you know, conscientious of our
time. So I'm gonna kind of justbuzz through the rest of this.
The other thing, a couple thingsthat stood out to me. One was,
you know, getting more of thelocal businesses onto your show.
One thing now, do you haverepeat guests on your show ever?

I have not yet.

Okay, that's one thing that I heard, I had
the host of Leap of Fate on myshow. And that's one thing he
has, he actually named that asone of the top ways that he's
grown his show is that he's hadrepeat guests. And I think in a
local market, that would besomething to consider as well,
because then people kind of oh,your back, you know, and maybe

(01:13:14):
have a catch up. And you know,what have you seen since then,
and I know, we talked aboutthis, then. And then this is
what's happening now. So peoplecan are again, you're building
that community because they'restarting to hear the same
voices. And then also, you know,I had made a note about going
doing some solo episodes. Again,I personally don't think you
need to do them. Because youbuild authority by having guests

(01:13:35):
on your show, you know, you'resurrounding yourself with
brilliant people. So I'm noteven going to talk more about
that, if you can ask me laterwhat my opinion is about that.
But I just think if you don'twant to do it even and they
don't get the most listens, Idon't think you should think you
should do whatever you want. So,um, and then also the final
thing was getting people toshare your show. Would you say

(01:13:58):
that, like 10% of your guestsshare? The episodes are

about 10%? Yeah.

Okay, so, yeah, it's honestly, yeah, I
mean, it's pretty, especially, Imean, my experience was is like
local business owners are busy,and they're usually not on
social media. So they're, youknow, they just get special
treatment. And I would just say,that's probably a great number.
As far as getting more, youknow, you're getting you're

(01:14:24):
doing the things right. Soyou're giving them the content,
you're getting them onclubhouse. You know, I'm just
trying to think they're, youknow, at the end of the day.
Yeah, I don't know, I feel likeyou're doing all the things. So
just keep doing that. Andespecially if they come on
multiple times, I think they'regoing to be more likely to share
as well. So, so there's that. Sobefore I share my one last thing

(01:14:49):
that I think that like if youdid anything, this would be my
number one thing. Do you haveany questions or feedback about
any of the other things that wetalked about?

Do you think it's good for me to continue
bringing in to other digitalmarketing experts, or should I
single myself out? ,

Um, that is such a good question. Um, number
one, I, if they're getting you alot of listeners, I would do it,
I would still do it. But Iwouldn't do it more than a
quarter of the time, I justwouldn't mostly have people,
especially if they're potentialcustomers, and you're able to
get them in. Personally, I woulddo whatever it took to get those

(01:15:27):
people in front of me. So Iwould, you know, grab a couple
travel mics or something, andjust be like, if I come to yours
place, can I just, it's just anhour. And you don't have to
prepare, I think, because youthink about as a business owner,
and I was on someone's showtoday already. And I have to
say, like, I'm like, I am one ofmy guests. Like, I can't believe
what I'm going through rightnow. And I usually don't go on

(01:15:48):
other people's shows, because ofthis, because I'm just like, a
wreck. And I'm like, so it'sreally helped me understand
this. But it's one of those,like, they have to trust that
you've got it. You know what Imean? Like they have to go,
okay, you've got it. And so themore that we as hosts can go, I
got you like, all you have to dois show up, you already have

(01:16:09):
everything that you need,everything, any conversation
I've had, it's like that only,and you're gonna look brilliant,
like you know, so even thoughwe've had this conversation, and
it feels like underwhelming,it's not like it's new to other
people. And so please just do itlike I know you. Because
otherwise they're, I mean, yourshows only a half an hour.

(01:16:30):
Anybody has 30 You know, TonyHorton always says, like, you
could do anything for what? 30seconds, but like 30 minutes
isn't that much time. So eventhe busiest entrepreneur you can
talk into, so I just like Iempower you, like, just go make
them do it, because it'sawesome. And but I think the
biggest thing is just helpingthem understand that there's
nothing they have to dodifferent than just living for

(01:16:53):
that. 30 minutes. And yeah, andthey're gonna like it. And if
they don't, then you'll buy hima fancy dinner. Like, that's
what I would do. I would 1,000%do that. I would be like, if I'm
wrong. I will XYZ like, I don'tknow, but I would bribe them for
sure. But helpful, all thatstuff, because I have one more
thing and then okay, cool.Awesome. So so if I could, like

(01:17:15):
if I if there was one thing thatI felt like would leverage what
you're already doing? Well,number one, I would just I would
reformat I would just get rid ofthe ads. Honestly, that's the
number one thing I would do. Thenumbers do thing would be the
blog. The cool thing is, is Ididn't say anything about the
audience promise. I feel likeeven though we talked a little
bit about clarity, I woulddefinitely be more conscientious

(01:17:37):
of it. But I think you do itnaturally. And so that's not a
thing, but ads, and then theblog post, or transcription or
whatever, just getting people toyour website. What do you think?

I love both of them. Awesome. I love it. I love
both of them. Do you have aaffordable transcription tool
that you recommend?

You know what I this is what I do, honestly.
So I use otter, which is AI? Oh,yes. Terrible, because I'm
always next step nation. So um,which, you know, next step is
awesome, but that's not me. So Iuse otter, which is super
affordable. And then I actuallypay somebody that I have really,
really trust, which happens tobe my daughter who's brilliant,

(01:18:21):
and she thinks like I do, butyou need to hire. Like, I would
suggest hiring somebody that youtrust that understands that
you're looking for greatcontent. So like somebody who
likes podcasts, you know, whocan listen to a podcast, and
that's enjoyable to pull thecontent, that's how I get my
time, times of like, she marksdown any clip any 32nd 62nd or

(01:18:44):
even, you know, she markswhether they're a clip or a
segment segments are over aminute. And she just she's
listening to it. She'sproofreading the transcript
while she's pulling content. Sothe transcript is in beautiful
shape. I have segments markedout that any video developed,
you know, any video editor coulddo, I could in fact, right now
I'm doing it. But she's made itso easy for me. She also pulls

(01:19:07):
quotes. So I've got quotessegments, and a clean
transcription all in think forany hour that I do. It takes her
two hours to do all thosethings. So then I want the way
and the guest has like amazingcontent. And I have a
transcription this beautifulthat I would put on my website,
quite honestly. So it's moreexpensive than like a VA or

(01:19:27):
something if when it comes towriting, then I send it to I
still send it to content fly,but that's problematic. I
someday will you know like whenit's really awesome. Like if
it's like when I interviewedNeil Patel. I had an actual real
writer. I think I wrote thatone. But is that helpful? Yeah,

(01:19:47):
super helpful soup. Okay. Okay,good, good. Good. Okay. Well,
awesome. Well, and justeverybody who's listening first
of all, thank you, I hope I'msure there was just like a
million nuggets that we justdropped and just you know, grab
one or two and use it for yourpodcast. Be sure to go check out
Rocky Mountain marketing. Youcan find it on your favorite

(01:20:08):
podcasting platform. Or go to,you can go to next step, social
communications.com. Or you cango to
spreaker.com/show/rocky-mountain-marketing.Katie, thank you again so much.
Is there anything else that youwould like to add before we
wrap?

No, this has been awesome. I really
appreciate the time. And youknow, I can't wait to join one
of your fireside chats. Yougotta go. Oh, let me and hang
out with me on clubhouse too.And yeah, I'm at Katie Brinkley
on clubhouse, but I'd love tojoin me on fireside sometime.

Oh, I appreciate that so much. Well,
you will get an invitation allmy guests get an email
afterwards. It's like, Hey, doyou have an iPhone? Are you on
fire site? And so I would lovethat you'll have to drag me into
clubhouse because I feel like Idon't know the secret handshake
yet. So I would love to get onthere with you too. So I
appreciate you so much for beinghere. Very, very much. So I and

(01:21:03):
again, I highly recommendeverybody go check out her
podcast and remember, don't beaverage, be brave, take action
and make magic happen. Thank youso much for listening.

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