September 22, 2025 • 38 mins
What still moves the needle in a world of AI, ghosting, and endless cold emails? Real human connection.
In this episode of No More Mondays, Angie Callen sits down with Greg Wasserman, Head of Relationships at RSS.com and a master of the warm introduction. From Yahoo sales to startup community-building, Greg has spent more than 20 years proving that every opportunity, deal, and idea starts with a person.
We explore why networking is about trust (not transactions), how community drives revenue and retention, and why saying “yes” can transform your career path. Plus, Greg breaks down the underrated “karma bank” of generosity and introductions.
If you’ve ever wondered how to grow your career or business without losing your humanity, this conversation is your blueprint.
Show Notes:
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Networking as trust, not transactions
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How community creates ROI and loyalty
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Why saying “yes” can change your trajectory
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The power of the “karma bank” of introductions
Connect with Greg Wasserman:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregwasserman
Connect with Angie Callen:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angiecallen
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angie (00:00):
Ang, hello everybody. We're getting fancy with
(00:11):
technology. Once again, overhere I am. Angie Callen, welcome
back to no more Mondays, thepodcast where we do believe you
can have a thriving career,business and life on your terms.
This episode is brought to youby the modern coach, my platform
for helping coaches do justthat. If there is one thing that
we have learned in almost 200episodes of no more Mondays, it
(00:32):
is how important core values areto ditching the Sunday scaries
and looking at life as no moreMondays if you're ready to grow
with purpose head on over to themodern coach. CO slash core
values and explore your corevalues as you start your
business or grow your career.Now time for today's guest. I am
very excited about this becausehe lives at the intersection of
(00:55):
community, curiosity andconnection, three words I love
because I love people. GregWasserman is a warm introduction
in human form. He's the guy whonot only knows that somebody but
who wants to create a genuineconnection that will help you
succeed. And I can attest tothat firsthand. From his days
crushing sales at Yahoo toleading partnerships and
(01:17):
community growth for startup,Greg's superpower has always
been his ability to createauthentic connections that lead
to big opportunities. And if youlisten to this program very
often, you know that I loveauthenticity, connection and big
opportunities, so I am all ears.Greg Wasserman, welcome to no
more Mondays.
Unknown (01:35):
I need you as my hype woman, like that's just amazing,
just the energy you bring up. Ican't wait to talk.
Angie (01:42):
I'm so excited about this, so I want to kind of get
right into it. Let's talk aboutspeaking of Energy. Let's talk
about Greg, the warmintroduction. Tell me more about
what that means, and kind ofwhere that approach to life and
business in the professionalworld even came from.
Unknown (01:59):
It comes from the playground back as a child, and
it's truly it right? Like I wasa I was relatively smart, I was
an athlete, but I was also thekind of person who my mother
would love me to be. Is the theperson that's friends with
everyone, and because of that,you end up realizing, especially
as you grow older, right?Friends start understanding
(02:23):
different hobbies and items thatthey want to play with. And so I
had one best friend. When youthink about, how do you choose
your best friends? They probablylive in proximity to you. So one
of my best friends still neardare, like he got into magic
cards. So I'm like, great, inorder to play with him, I'm
gonna go do magic cards. I hadno clue. We joke about it years
later, but the same kids thatwere doing the magic cards were
(02:44):
also on the sports teams that Iwas playing with. So you start
realizing, like, hold on. Whilesports brings us together, it's
also there's so much more tothat. And I always want to be
the person that said, Hold on.How do we just you're doing this
or you're doing this, but youguys have a lot in common. How
do we bring people together? Andto your point of, like, I just
love people. Like, I think goodpeople should know other good
(03:07):
people and will come across inour lives, terrible people. And
you're like, great, I don't needthat energy. I'm not going to
talk to you. But good people,you want to bring them together.
And that's literally what I'vedone from a career for the last
20 plus years,
Angie (03:23):
I love that. It is, it's, it's integral to who you are as
a as a person, and even yourstrengths, right is you found a
way to make six year old Greghave a profession that aligned
with all of those kid like,things that so many of us end up
losing over time. How did youhow did you maintain it?
Unknown (03:44):
It's a lot of work, but it's also personality like I
think, and you can probablyaccept this as part of who you
are, but very few, they look atthis as a superpower, which you
come to terms and going like itis, because not everyone's used
to that you put me in a room, Ijust want to talk to everyone.
Curiosity is one of my corevalues, and you put me in a
room, it's gonna be great. Wehad a conference recently, and
(04:08):
our head of product was therefor our company, and he's like,
Greg, I'm drained. I'm like, Ohmy god. The more people I get to
talk to, the more energized,like, trying to go to bed is
going to be really hard, becauseyou're just buzzing from the
conversations, the connectionsand everything else that you get
to do. And for me, the way mybrain has always processed is, I
guess, because I've worked insales, part of a good
(04:30):
salesperson is listening, right?If I can get you talking more,
then that's a good, good sidefor mine. So if I can get you to
under if I can understand whatyou're trying to do and dig into
whatever your life is. The waymy brain operates is not only
how do I sell you whatever it isthat I'm trying to sell you, but
(04:51):
actually, if I don't have thesolution for you, I want to be
the person that comes to you andthinks about, how do I give you
that solution? So my backgroundis in media. Sales. So I was
always trying to sell, whateverthe solution I had, but if I
became friends with othersellers, and I was able to get
in a room with a buyer and say,Look, I may not have the
(05:11):
solution for you, but as I trulybelieve, life is about time and
relationships. So we all knowthat I will probably move on
from this job, and you'llprobably move around from that
job, because we don't live inthe day where 40 years in one
company is the way we operate.So at least, let's get to know
each other and figure out, do welike each other? Can I actually
(05:33):
understand what you are lookingto accomplish? Because if I
can't do it, I'm going to behonest, but I could save you the
100 emails saying I'm going togo to my friends and go, Look, I
got Angie here. This is whatshe's looking for, who can help
her. And I'm only going to makethe introduction, and if my
friends are saying yes, I can dothat, as opposed to, oh yeah, I
can do that. Because everyseller is going to be like,
(05:54):
yeah, let me, let me. And I'mlike, no, because that looks bad
on me. And so once you becomethe person that others look to
for you know what? I like Greg.He's got good things to say, and
he can help me, even if he's notthe actual solution that becomes
your know, like and trust thatI've always wanted.
Angie (06:11):
Oh, KLT I talk about all the time with my business
clients. Also, side note, theworld should watch out for the
day that you and I are ever inthe same physical room, because
it's possible the room mayimplode from two people, people
who love to make connections andlove to work a room. I'm the
same way as far as like theenergy goes. And what I think is
(06:34):
interesting you said somethingthat I often, that I often say
and agree with. And I think it'san interesting thing as an
extrovert to be a good listener,because usually we're pegged as
the people who don't listen andjust want to be the loud mouse
and be heard, but that tends tobe my MO when working a room is
to ask tons of questions, sothat I'll have to talk about
myself, but then I start tounderstand who I am talking to,
(06:56):
and can make that genuineconnection with them, to
understand how I can supportwhether it's directly or
indirectly, and it sounds likesounds like you kind of take the
same
Unknown (07:04):
MO it is. And if anyone's if anyone watching
listen to this, you'll probablygo, hold on. I've been in a
room. I've been where someonejust keeps asking me it feels
like an interview. Well, if itfeels like an interview, maybe
that's not a bad thing, becausethey're truly trying to ask you
and understand. But at the sametime, and I've had this
(07:24):
conversation with other people,maybe you're just bad at asking
questions yourself, so if itfeels like an interview, then it
could be, you are takingwhatever this person's giving
you, but you're not fallingback. So they're going to just
continue to ask you questions,because they're like, You didn't
ask me anything. So I'm justgoing to keep asking questions
because I'm curious. If you wantto know about me, you'll ask.
(07:47):
But otherwise, if you're goingto be guarded, and it goes back
to vulnerability, some peopleare going to be guard and go, I
don't know this feels awkward,but also, when you feel that a
person's quote, unquote selling,I've always, never been the I'm
a seller. I always admit I can'tsell ice to an Eskimo. I only
want to sell what the Eskimoneeds.
Angie (08:07):
If I think the Eskimo needs the ice, I could sell it
all day long. However, how oftendoes an Eskimo need
Unknown (08:14):
ice? Right? Exactly? I don't know. Is that PC? Can I
even say this anymore? I don'tknow. I don't
Angie (08:19):
know. I it's, about, it's the swamp land in Florida thing.
But, well, I would, I wouldrather sell ice to Eskimos than
sell swamp land in Florida inthe year 2025 moving on, I
really, I agree with what yousaid, because something occurred
to me that might be quotable.Maybe we'll throw it on the in
(08:40):
the in the notes. Rapport, to meis the difference, right? If you
are in a conversation that lookslike a tennis match, you
probably haven't taken the timeto build the rapport that
actually makes it an exchangewhere you're receiving
information and leveraging thatto continue the conversation,
versus a back and forth. And Ithink that's the case whether
you're actually in a jobinterview, something that could
(09:01):
be a job interview or trying tounderstand, you know, how two
people can can work together andcollaborate and connect.
Unknown (09:07):
100% couldn't say it better. Mic
Angie (09:11):
drop. So related, related, but kind of an aside. I
want to know about a memorableconnection of yours. So do you
have a connection that standsout in your mind that has just
completely changed either yourtrajectory in work or life.
Unknown (09:29):
Ooh, that's a good one. Changed my I mean, I guess I if
I think about it, I've gotten myjobs. Most of my jobs have all
come through connections. SoI've never been one to be able
to get a job from a let me fillout a resume. If we go back to
(09:50):
first job out of college. It wasthe recruiters that came on
college, right? So I guess inthat regards, they got to know
me, was relationship that I wasable to develop. And they. Saw
whatever they saw on 22 year oldversion of Greg, right? But then
thereafter, my time with Yahoocame through. At the time, the
girl I was dating, I we all gotlet go from the My first job, so
(10:14):
I was unemployed. So it's like,all right, what am I going to
do? And she's like, Well, mycoworker who turned down this
job who's now working with me,they must be hiring. So it made
the connection. The interviewside was all on me, but
ultimately, the door that wasopen was through a connection,
and that's literally how it'sbeen for the majority of my
career. And if I look at like,the last three or four jobs, I
(10:37):
mean, I'm the head ofrelationships for rss.com, I've
chosen that title for the lastthree companies, and all three
of those have come throughrelationships or social media in
some regards.
Angie (10:48):
We're going to pause here. And for any of you out
there who are job seekers, whomay have heard me say one time
or 100 that once you stop,network, start. Networking never
stop. Greg is living, breathing,walking proof of why that is the
case, and it is more importantnow than ever, with the current
market conditions, to lean intoreal human connection, because
(11:13):
it we can open doors for eachother that a computer cannot,
and
Unknown (11:17):
that's why I believe a, I will always have a job, and B,
the the business of Greg as arelationship generator will be
something that can use for thenext 30 years and not worry
about AI going, you know what?AI is going to match Greg and
Angie far better than Patrickbeing able to match you and I
(11:39):
together, which is probably AIcould do it, but it's never
going to be as trustworthy asgoing you know what someone else
vouch for you when you thinkabout after we got introduced,
and then the introductions Imade for you, and the
conversations we've had, andjust the doors that keep opening
up, AI is not doing that, andthat's where the relationship
and then I live on LinkedIn. Iknow you do as well. Yes, it's
(12:05):
always boggles my mind when Icome across the profiles that
have, they don't have any post.I don't know really who they
are. I've got their resume.That's about it, in terms of of
what I can gather from them andand and they they don't feel
like it's a platform that theyneed to because they're
currently employed. The problemis is you don't know when the
(12:30):
Callen is going to drop, right?So always be network. And one of
the best things that the samekid that I did the magic cards
with, one of the smartest thingshe told me that I can walk away
with, is if a recruiter reachesout to you, even if you love
your job, even if you're happywith it, take that recruiter's
call. Control your excitement.There Angie, but can take that
(12:50):
recruiter call even if you havethe worst experience with
recruiters, they're stillhumans. You have no clue what
one conversation is going to becompared to another with a
recruiter, but take that,because they're clearly reaching
out and having your name intheir database. Yep. Where's the
harm in that? And they'll,they'll hopefully guide you of
what they're looking for, whichalso helps you understand what
(13:12):
skills do I need that they'relooking for, that either I
should be skilling up or I don'tcare for this. This isn't for
me.
Angie (13:19):
Well, the reason I'm getting excited is because this
is this is like everybody outthere who gets to hear what
Angie preaches from someoneelse's mouth, maybe they'll
actually listen. But you know,fundamentally, there's so many
little things there. First ofall, I'm glad you brought AI to
the table, because I believe,just very succinctly, that AI is
actually going to make realhuman connection even more
(13:41):
important than it has been inthe past. And we'll just leave
it at that. So this doesn't turninto an AI conversation, because
I really want to dig into whatyou mentioned about, like the
response thing, because one ofthe number one complaints that
we hear from job seekers is thelack of feedback and the
presence of ghosting Don't bethe same on the other end,
(14:01):
right? Even if recruiters goesto you, who doesn't, I don't
care, answer every single one ofthem, because you might not know
what they have for you in thefuture. You we get to be humans,
even when others are not people.That is the new rise above bar,
in my opinion.
Unknown (14:17):
And so I'm going to pull that thread even more. And
I was having a conversationrecently with someone about
this, actually was my therapist,come to think about it, so the
balance, I believe that life isabout time and relationships. I
have no clue where oneconversation is going to lead.
Therefore, if we take thisrecruiter thing, I don't know
(14:39):
where that conversation with therecruiter will take me five
years from now, if thatrecruiter is still a in the
business or B, they got out ofit, and there's somewhere else
that I could work with ornetwork. It's a relationship
that I can pull and and andleverage later on that I have no
clue where the the value of itis today, but the conversation I
was having with my therapist.Was around, how do we balance?
(15:03):
And this is what I strugglewith. But I truly believe
there's value in it, the shortterm transactional mindset
versus the long term benefits ofa relationship. And what I mean
here is I'm not looking for ajob right now, so I'm not going
to respond to this person, inthis case, recruiter or
someone's trying to sell me, I'mnot going to respond to this
(15:24):
because I don't have the timeright now. There's only so many
hours in the day. You know himas well as I do. My mentor Rob
Durant, a shout out. He's like,there's only 20. There's not 28
hours in a day. I don't have thetime to answer everything, but I
make the time tomorrow. What isit a Friday of this week when
we're recording this whatever?My whole day is. Afternoon is
(15:46):
dedicated to making intros. Someof them for you. Is that going
to benefit me? Am I going to getthe transaction? Am I going to
get the sale, whatever, whateverthe I need to cross this off my
list item that drives revenue,drives whatever today's need is
no but the value of that is thelong term relationships, long
term connections, and also beingthe guy that goes, You know
(16:08):
what? Greg made this intro. Andthere's value in that. There's a
lot of people that live theirlives in the transactional and
they probably are making a lotmore money than I've ever made,
but I feel exactly and I feelincredibly grateful that I get
to be the one that gets tocreate those connections and be
the time spent on doing so
Angie (16:32):
there is, there is an actual currency that is, that is
the karma bank. I fully believethat. And I think in this idea
of making connections and kindof like, what are you going to
do for me? Land? If you want tobe really genuine and authentic
about this, you have to let goof immediate, instant
gratification, because it will,like, it could be years and
(16:52):
years and years down the road. Imean, I'll tell you, just before
you and I came on, Greg, I wasbouncing around the living room,
as you can imagine, I may bebecause I got an email from
somebody who I talked to aboutan on site facilitation gig a
year ago, and it didn't happen.I've kept in touch with her, and
now they have new year, newbudget, and she's like, I think
we're ready to go. So you justabsolutely never know when
(17:14):
something's gonna come back. Andif you let go of the need for
this instant gratification thatwe all have nowadays, it can be
a little bit more like, Yeah,I'm gonna make the connection.
Who cares when and what doescome back to me, but the karma
bank says something will. Nowyou brought up something that I
actually wanted to talk aboutdriving revenue. So we've talked
a lot about career opportunitiesthrough community and
(17:35):
connection. I'm really curious,from your perspective, how
community drives revenue. I'dlove an example and a little bit
Unknown (17:47):
more thought on that. Wow, that's a good one. I've
been managing three differentcommunities. I fell into
community management partlybecause I'm the relationship
guy. So you work for startupswhere they are, the developer,
guys or gals. You know, I use itgenerically, but like, they're,
you're the guy, so go do it. AndI'm like, perfect. How do I go
(18:11):
ahead and not think aboutcommunity in the sense of a
funnel, a funnel where I can letanyone into this community, and
I'm trying to funnel them intowhatever my sale, whether it's a
software, whether it's acoaching, whether whatever it
may be that I'm trying to sellthem into, I've always used
(18:33):
community as a closed you'realready a customer of mine. How
do I provide value to you? Andso that's the retention side.
But for me, it allows me to haveone on one conversations with
people. And I work for productled growth companies, so I'm
working with 1000s of users. Ican send emails all day, and
this is this is never going tobe able to have the one on one
(18:55):
interaction I need. I'm nevergoing to get to talk to them in
the way. So if I've used I builtmy communities over slack,
because I live in Slack.Companies I work for all are
slack, so that is where I'vegone. But community, in that
regards, becomes so much such anROI focus piece, because I am
providing more value to theuser, so they're finding the
(19:17):
product. And this is what I lookI mean, my LinkedIn says I'm a
humanization specialist, becauseI like to humanize companies.
Product led growth companiestend to be bring you in, get you
signed up for the software, andthen you move on, but you're
already there, and I'll give youwhatever the I'm like, No,
create a community so that I canhave this one on one
(19:39):
conversation. I can do trainingswith them. I can get them
talking, which is what I love inmy communities. Part of the
whole thing that everyone's likeGreg, this is, how do you do
this? I'll tag you. So if Angiecame into my community and she
said, I do X, Y and Z, I'm goingto tag five other people,
assuming I get five other peoplegoing, Hey, Angie does similar
(19:59):
to what. You do, or she's in theDenver area, or whatever it is,
so you've got more connection,so you don't feel alone, because
that's the biggest thing we allare looking for. Humans need
connection. So if I can createthe connection for you, you're
going to look at my company notas a it's just a product that I
use, and it serves its need.You're going to look at my
company now as Wow. This issolving all these other
(20:22):
relationship issues that I mayhave had, business opportunities
that I didn't even think about,and you're creating
conversations that no one at thefirst glance was thinking they
were going to have, that you'venow surfaced because you've
created that community
Angie (20:36):
environment. And at the high level, you're building
relationships with people. And Ilove the idea of like, to me, it
comes back to the idea of theintention behind the community.
Is it simply a another funnelwhere people are swimming at the
top and your whole sole purposeis to get them all the way down
to, you know, desire andconversion? Or are you okay if
(20:58):
they always just keep onswimming in the middle of an
awareness, but they're getting awhole lot of other stuff out of
it right. And I think that'swhere the intention of what you
want a community to do changesbetween transactional,
transactional sales or marketingtactic and actually
authentically wanting to buildrelationships with with the
(21:18):
community of users, for example,that will increase retention and
increase referrals, and allowthem to do the same with each
other.
Unknown (21:26):
And your last piece there the referrals, that's
that's a key piece. If I canturn all my customers into
advocates, into this isn't justa great product that serves my
needs, but also a great productthat that you have to be part of
this product because of all theresources, all the knowledge,
all the connections I've made intheir community, in their
(21:49):
trainings and so forth, they'renow your biggest advocate, which
goes to and I know we've, we'vetalked offline about this, but
like, the customer experiencesis huge. So if I can now create
a better customer experience.That's only going to drive more
revenue, more brand awareness,more know, like and trust. We
like these people. We're goingto do business with these people
(22:10):
because they care about us.
Angie (22:12):
And again, to just weave the AI piece in here, those
things are more important now asAI is disrupting and going to
make so many things the same,right? If you are the the diff,
if you are differentiated by thelevel of humanism, you add to
your business, you actually willstand out. And I think this is a
(22:32):
good time to ask for a littlepiece of advice. This might be
loaded. So, you know, we'reselling this idea of, like, go
create a community. And sothere's got to be somebody out
there who's listening, who'sgoing, this is a good idea. How
the heck do I do that? So, Greg,how the heck do we do it?
Unknown (22:48):
I, I'm, I'm going to give my two cents on it in in
the sense that I know there's somany different ways you can go
ahead and create a community.There's, there's platforms out
there. As I said, I built minein Slack, because that's where I
live. As I've learned, you'renever going to appease everyone.
I've get this all the time.Greg, why aren't you building
(23:10):
this in discord? Why aren't youbuilding this in mighty network?
Why aren't you building thisschool? Whatever it may be, take
your pick. You're not going toappease everyone. The role of
platforms that that we all haveissues with that just software
as a whole. So have anunderstanding and what your
strategy is. That's how do Ibegin? What is the strategy?
(23:30):
What am I trying to accomplish?Why am I actually bringing
people together? For me, when Icame to rss.com, I'm like, you
guys, first thing we're going todo is build a community so that
we can actually start talking tothem, because you don't send the
emails, whatever emails you'resending. Revolutionary.
Angie (23:46):
Let's talk to our customers. But
Unknown (23:49):
there's the let's pick up the phone and talk to them,
or let's put him in a placewhere you get to see them
talking to each other. You startsurfacing conversations that you
didn't have control. And like,we can look at it and I cut
myself off control over you haveto remove that essence of
control. There's some controlthat you have. But if you're
bringing people in, you could,quote, unquote, have trolls, but
(24:13):
they're all your customers. Soeven if they're providing you
product feedback, at least, theway I've built my community is
they're already existingcustomers, the feedback they're
giving you are people that wantto use your product, that want
to make it better. Why wouldn'tyou want to have that direct
feedback? And then, and I'velearned working for product as a
(24:34):
sales person, if a customer istelling me and can I think of it
as a complaint, but my productteam is going, Wow, this is
genius. I didn't think aboutthat. That's great stuff that we
can go ahead and use. So come torealize what I may think is is a
quote, unquote dis if you wantproduct is looking at as this
opportunity. So everything thatyou can get from your customers
(24:57):
when you bring them together andhumanize that. Brands, you can't
beat that. So when you'restarting a community, understand
what is the strategy that youare trying to go with? Is it a
funnel? Are you trying to getpeople to sell? But in my case,
bring your customers together. Ithink what is it we know Alyssa,
(25:21):
one of the things I believe shedid was created a community for
just the guests on her podcast,because, hey, why would I want
all these amazing people thatare on my podcast to come into a
place and meet each other andthen speak highly about me
because they were on my podcast.But also maybe there's
opportunities, maybe there'scollaboration, if you can be the
catalyst, and not just bringinginformation, in the case that
(25:43):
you're doing Angie to peoplethrough your podcast, but also
through a community of only theguests, because you've hand
selected these people. I mean,that only elevates your power,
your know, like and trust andyour opportunity to spread your
message even more.
Angie (26:00):
Okay, now I have a genius idea. Also, you all met Alyssa
recently. She was a guest on nomore Mondays thanks to Greg's
introduction, because she is themaybe one two thirds of my age
blonde doppelganger with apodcast called Taking Back
Mondays. So as soon as Greg andI met, he was like, You need to
meet Alyssa. And I think that'sa that's actually a really cool
(26:23):
idea, because one of the thingsI say all the time, just
anecdotally, is the community isone of my favorite aspects of
podcasting, because it's beenable to give get me into
conversation and community withpeople I probably wouldn't have
had had a reason to engage withotherwise. And so, you know,
that's just another example ofeverything we're talking about
around plugging yourself in,surrounding yourself, or
(26:46):
creating the kind of communitythat is where, almost where you
want to be. And so Greg, herecomes another maybe loaded
question. Because, you know,we've talked a lot about how
much we each love humans. And soI can't sit here and talk about
AI and communities, if I don'task you about you and your human
and so I'm curious. Like, I knowyou've done a bunch of growth
(27:06):
work. You mentioned therapyearlier, so I don't even have to
bring that to the table. But youknow, in all of your growth work
and in all of this buildingcommunities, what have you
learned about yourself and whatsurprised you in that
exploration?
Unknown (27:19):
I guess it goes back to the the therapy conversation.
It's, How do I balance? How doyou balance the short term
needs, especially from a whetheryou're running your own company,
you are your own worst critic,and you can always be doing more
to working for someone else,who's How do I earn my paycheck,
and how do I make sure I hit mymetrics type deal to the long
(27:42):
term, what is core to who I am?And I'd say part of it is, is I
am my own boss, time andrelationships LLC, while also
working for a podcast company,rss.com, so there's a duality
there, but that's what I love.To your point about podcasting,
what I love about podcasting isit's community driven. So I have
(28:05):
a background in partnerships,and now I've fallen into
podcasting. Both are communitydriven, because in partnerships,
you basically go, Hey, Angie,this is what I do. I this is
what I know, what I know of whatI think you do. I think there's
a there, there we should talk.And most partnership people are
like, Yeah, let's, let's, let'sget together. Because even if
(28:25):
we're not together or it's aright fit, I probably know other
people I'm going to introduceyou to, because most partnership
people are the No offense, butthe red headed stepchild of the
family,
Angie (28:38):
and so get everything we've just talked about,
Unknown (28:41):
yeah, exactly. And then community within podcasting,
everyone complains, and thestatistics, there's there's call
it, just under 400,000 activepodcasts, and it's podcasting is
this popular term right now. Soeveryone thinks, oh, I can't
start a podcast. The great thingabout the podcast community is
(29:01):
we are all here to lift eachother up. We're all just trying
to figure it out. No one knowseverything about social, about
publishing and everything elsethat's out there. So it really
becomes this amazing piece thatI've learned about myself is
find your people, find acommunity that fits with what
your your essence is, my essenceis. Life is about time,
(29:24):
relationship. I get to work in apodcast area where your day to
day job is not the no moreMondays, a list is day to day
job is. Forget. What is it?Forget the Sunday. Oh. Take back
what? Take back Monday. Takeback Mondays, right? So like
each person that's doing apodcast that is a channel for
(29:47):
them, that is a medium forum,and I literally get to spend my
time talking to you, not just onthis podcast about podcasting,
consulting you in podcasting,but hey, let's talk about your
day job and that component. Thathas been the biggest thing I've
learned through all this aboutfind something that feels right,
(30:07):
and you can actually make money.You can make a career. But it
took the 20 years of theunhappiness, the I'm just doing
this for the paycheck. I'm doingthis because I don't know what
else to do. And if we pull thisthread, that's where we have to
keep doing. You don't know wherethese relationships will go. We
don't know where the skill setsfrom 22 Greg to 42 version,
(30:30):
Greg, I can just follow theline. And ultimately, I
understood that the line waspeople and connections and
relationships,
Angie (30:38):
yeah, and that's what I think is so interesting. When I
talk to somebody who's like, I'dreally love to do really love to
do X, or people don't know whatto do with me, because I've got
this unique mix of experience.And I'm like, oh, there's
somebody out there who knowsexactly what to do with you. You
just need to be visible andaware of it, and community is
exactly the way to do it. Thereyou go. All right. So speaking
(31:02):
of communities, how do peopleget into yours? How do we find
you? How do we stay in touchwith all of your great life and
work, wisdom, podcast, knowledgeand all the things.
Unknown (31:12):
I'm also the person who says, I do, don't do as I don't.
What is it I screwed that oneup. Say, do as I say, yeah, not
as I do, because I don't have apodcast, and we can go down that
path. I don't have a website. Ilive on LinkedIn, even though
I've lost two jobs becausesocial media changed their
(31:33):
algorithms and there went ourcompany's revenue. But I live on
LinkedIn, that's where I post mycontent. If you're thinking
about a podcast, amazingrss.com. Is where I work. It's
the community I run there, aswell as everything else with
inside relationships for thecompany. But yeah, I love to
(31:54):
talk to people. I'm an opendoor. I am also an open book. So
please reach out, and that alsobecomes the greatest gift you
can give to Angie, which mostpeople don't realize. As those
of us that are in podcasting, wefeel like we're speaking to
avoid, avoid like who'slistening to me. From an
(32:15):
analytics standpoint, we don'treally get an understanding of
who the downloads are. We don'tunderstand who the individual
is. So nothing's better thansomeone reaching out to Angie
and go, Hey, Angie. I reallylove this episode. Trust me, you
will make her day. She's notgoing to try and sell you
because of it. She's just goingto go like, Thank you. You made
my day. And the same is whensomeone reaches out and said,
(32:38):
Hey, Greg, I heard you on Angieshow, X, Y and Z. I'm gonna, a,
probably use that as a piece ofcontent to validate that
relationships matter. B, sendthat back to Angie and go, Hey,
Angie, here's what so and sosaid you actually didn't know
they listened to your show, butthey did, and they liked it, or
at least what I had to say.Can't speak for your for you in
(32:58):
that regards. But hey, theytoned in for you, right?
Angie (33:01):
Well, and you know, for all content creators out there,
I think Greg and I can say thatuniversally, it's a, it is a, it
is a tough, some, some sometimesseemingly thankless job, because
we don't get the amount offeedback that is proportional to
the amount of work we put in.And so we just have to trust
that we are making a difference.And I know I can completely
(33:23):
agree with you that, you know, Isend out the Sunday scaries
emails, and somebody responds,and they'll be like, Oh my gosh,
this is exactly what I needed tohear this week. And it's like,
okay, that just made, you know,12 other editions of of the
podcast or the newslettercompletely worth the time. And
so I think that that's just a tome, that's an exclamation point
on this entire conversationaround be a human in community
(33:45):
with humans and treat otherswith the love, respect and
humanism that you want to be youwant to be treated with. And
isn't that a lesson that wecould escalate to a macro level?
But we will leave that foranother day, because what I want
to make sure all of you heardfrom this conversation is that
(34:05):
relationships are strategy.They're also what makes the
world go round. So Greg, I lovethat you are here to remind all
of us that every deal, everyjob, every idea, is a person has
a person behind it. And showingup with curiosity can really
opened doors you never imagined20 year old Greg would never
imagine he is where he is rightnow. And I think I could say the
(34:26):
same thing for that formerengineer who loves people. So as
we wrap things up, Greg, I'mgoing to ask you one more
question, and that is another,another kind of self reflect.
You told me before we startedrecording that you like, or self
reflection. So I'm going to justmake you do it in front of a
live studio audience. You know,through this, through the
transformation that you've hadboth yourself and with finding
(34:46):
work that's really satissatisfying, I want to know kind
of a belief that you haveadopted that's helped you build
this, this life and careerrooted in connection.
Unknown (34:59):
Say, Yes. Yes. I mean, since we're a tail end, I won't
go into like deeper details,because that is a completely
different episode, or we'll justcontinue going right, right. But
I've learned growth mindset,saying yes is a key piece, and
(35:20):
I'll leave it with this. When Iwas unemployed at the time and I
was given the opportunity to gowork for a bootstrap startup
Cast Magic while the salarywasn't there, they're like,
Greg, we can't pay you. And I'mlike, well, the alternative is
is keep trying to find a jobthat will pay me what I'm worth,
or I can have this opportunity,this experience and this door
(35:41):
opening to take this and go, andI can't speak to anyone else's
financial situation, but atleast I was financially secure
to be able to take this and say,You know what, I can afford
doing this and learn from it.It's like basically taking that
internship where most people areafraid to do if you can get
paid, or the opportunity, if wecan lock think about AI, if you
(36:05):
have the opportunity in this AIworld to learn skills that you
can use later on, say yes toooften. We are so afraid to say
yes to things, because itdoesn't it's not that it doesn't
feel right. It's the level ofdiscomfort that we aren't
willing to lean into, becausewe're used to the comfort. So if
(36:26):
we say yes to things, you willcontinue to grow. And if you can
grow 1% every day, but the endof the year, it's 38 times
better than you were on day one.Say yes more, and you will
actually find yourself now froma therapy since we touched on
this, there is also value insaying no. So yeah, right,
(36:47):
there's
Angie (36:47):
the other side of the coin. However, I believe message
has I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'mgonna wrap that into a nutshell
of like, take a chance onyourself, right? We all know the
cliche that growth doesn'thappen in the comfort zone, but
we all love to stay in thecomfort zone and expect growth
is going to happen. And that'swhere saying yes and kind of
betting on yourself comes in toplay. And that is the yes that
(37:09):
Greg is talking about.
Unknown (37:11):
There you go. I love it. Do
Angie (37:13):
you all see why Greg and I were like Insta friends?
Because, you know, similar to myperspective, you know, we're in
this world of AI ghosting,digital everything. It turns out
that connections are where itat, where it's at, and my little
hashtag that I like to useeverywhere on LinkedIn, humans
still matter. So I'm going tochallenge all of you out there
(37:35):
this week to act like humansstill matter. Send a warm
introduction. Think about twopeople in your network who need
to know each other and playmatch banker. You never know
where it'll lead for them, andyou never know where it'll lead
for you. And if it feels reallygood, do it again next week.
How's that? This has been anamazing episode of no more
Mondays. Greg Wasserman, thankyou so much for joining me,
(37:57):
being vulnerable, being curious,and proving, yet again, that a
good network can take you justabout anywhere. I appreciate you
and your time.
Unknown (38:04):
Thank you likewise.
Angie (38:07):
Don't forget to catch our Wednesday mini drop. Midweek
momentum. It comes out onWednesday afternoons at 2pm and
I will see you next Mondaymorning for another edition of
no more Mondays podcast. Behuman. Everybody. Bye. And
Unknown (38:26):
I'm.
Ang, hello everybody. We're getting fancy with
(00:11):
technology. Once again, overhere I am. Angie Callen, welcome
back to no more Mondays, thepodcast where we do believe you
can have a thriving career,business and life on your terms.
This episode is brought to youby the modern coach, my platform
for helping coaches do justthat. If there is one thing that
we have learned in almost 200episodes of no more Mondays, it
(00:32):
is how important core values areto ditching the Sunday scaries
and looking at life as no moreMondays if you're ready to grow
with purpose head on over to themodern coach. CO slash core
values and explore your corevalues as you start your
business or grow your career.Now time for today's guest. I am
very excited about this becausehe lives at the intersection of
(00:55):
community, curiosity andconnection, three words I love
because I love people. GregWasserman is a warm introduction
in human form. He's the guy whonot only knows that somebody but
who wants to create a genuineconnection that will help you
succeed. And I can attest tothat firsthand. From his days
crushing sales at Yahoo toleading partnerships and
(01:17):
community growth for startup,Greg's superpower has always
been his ability to createauthentic connections that lead
to big opportunities. And if youlisten to this program very
often, you know that I loveauthenticity, connection and big
opportunities, so I am all ears.Greg Wasserman, welcome to no
more Mondays.
Unknown (01:35):
I need you as my hype woman, like that's just amazing,
just the energy you bring up. Ican't wait to talk.
Angie (01:42):
I'm so excited about this, so I want to kind of get
right into it. Let's talk aboutspeaking of Energy. Let's talk
about Greg, the warmintroduction. Tell me more about
what that means, and kind ofwhere that approach to life and
business in the professionalworld even came from.
Unknown (01:59):
It comes from the playground back as a child, and
it's truly it right? Like I wasa I was relatively smart, I was
an athlete, but I was also thekind of person who my mother
would love me to be. Is the theperson that's friends with
everyone, and because of that,you end up realizing, especially
as you grow older, right?Friends start understanding
(02:23):
different hobbies and items thatthey want to play with. And so I
had one best friend. When youthink about, how do you choose
your best friends? They probablylive in proximity to you. So one
of my best friends still neardare, like he got into magic
cards. So I'm like, great, inorder to play with him, I'm
gonna go do magic cards. I hadno clue. We joke about it years
later, but the same kids thatwere doing the magic cards were
(02:44):
also on the sports teams that Iwas playing with. So you start
realizing, like, hold on. Whilesports brings us together, it's
also there's so much more tothat. And I always want to be
the person that said, Hold on.How do we just you're doing this
or you're doing this, but youguys have a lot in common. How
do we bring people together? Andto your point of, like, I just
love people. Like, I think goodpeople should know other good
(03:07):
people and will come across inour lives, terrible people. And
you're like, great, I don't needthat energy. I'm not going to
talk to you. But good people,you want to bring them together.
And that's literally what I'vedone from a career for the last
20 plus years,
Angie (03:23):
I love that. It is, it's, it's integral to who you are as
a as a person, and even yourstrengths, right is you found a
way to make six year old Greghave a profession that aligned
with all of those kid like,things that so many of us end up
losing over time. How did youhow did you maintain it?
Unknown (03:44):
It's a lot of work, but it's also personality like I
think, and you can probablyaccept this as part of who you
are, but very few, they look atthis as a superpower, which you
come to terms and going like itis, because not everyone's used
to that you put me in a room, Ijust want to talk to everyone.
Curiosity is one of my corevalues, and you put me in a
room, it's gonna be great. Wehad a conference recently, and
(04:08):
our head of product was therefor our company, and he's like,
Greg, I'm drained. I'm like, Ohmy god. The more people I get to
talk to, the more energized,like, trying to go to bed is
going to be really hard, becauseyou're just buzzing from the
conversations, the connectionsand everything else that you get
to do. And for me, the way mybrain has always processed is, I
guess, because I've worked insales, part of a good
(04:30):
salesperson is listening, right?If I can get you talking more,
then that's a good, good sidefor mine. So if I can get you to
under if I can understand whatyou're trying to do and dig into
whatever your life is. The waymy brain operates is not only
how do I sell you whatever it isthat I'm trying to sell you, but
(04:51):
actually, if I don't have thesolution for you, I want to be
the person that comes to you andthinks about, how do I give you
that solution? So my backgroundis in media. Sales. So I was
always trying to sell, whateverthe solution I had, but if I
became friends with othersellers, and I was able to get
in a room with a buyer and say,Look, I may not have the
(05:11):
solution for you, but as I trulybelieve, life is about time and
relationships. So we all knowthat I will probably move on
from this job, and you'llprobably move around from that
job, because we don't live inthe day where 40 years in one
company is the way we operate.So at least, let's get to know
each other and figure out, do welike each other? Can I actually
(05:33):
understand what you are lookingto accomplish? Because if I
can't do it, I'm going to behonest, but I could save you the
100 emails saying I'm going togo to my friends and go, Look, I
got Angie here. This is whatshe's looking for, who can help
her. And I'm only going to makethe introduction, and if my
friends are saying yes, I can dothat, as opposed to, oh yeah, I
can do that. Because everyseller is going to be like,
(05:54):
yeah, let me, let me. And I'mlike, no, because that looks bad
on me. And so once you becomethe person that others look to
for you know what? I like Greg.He's got good things to say, and
he can help me, even if he's notthe actual solution that becomes
your know, like and trust thatI've always wanted.
Angie (06:11):
Oh, KLT I talk about all the time with my business
clients. Also, side note, theworld should watch out for the
day that you and I are ever inthe same physical room, because
it's possible the room mayimplode from two people, people
who love to make connections andlove to work a room. I'm the
same way as far as like theenergy goes. And what I think is
(06:34):
interesting you said somethingthat I often, that I often say
and agree with. And I think it'san interesting thing as an
extrovert to be a good listener,because usually we're pegged as
the people who don't listen andjust want to be the loud mouse
and be heard, but that tends tobe my MO when working a room is
to ask tons of questions, sothat I'll have to talk about
myself, but then I start tounderstand who I am talking to,
(06:56):
and can make that genuineconnection with them, to
understand how I can supportwhether it's directly or
indirectly, and it sounds likesounds like you kind of take the
same
Unknown (07:04):
MO it is. And if anyone's if anyone watching
listen to this, you'll probablygo, hold on. I've been in a
room. I've been where someonejust keeps asking me it feels
like an interview. Well, if itfeels like an interview, maybe
that's not a bad thing, becausethey're truly trying to ask you
and understand. But at the sametime, and I've had this
(07:24):
conversation with other people,maybe you're just bad at asking
questions yourself, so if itfeels like an interview, then it
could be, you are takingwhatever this person's giving
you, but you're not fallingback. So they're going to just
continue to ask you questions,because they're like, You didn't
ask me anything. So I'm justgoing to keep asking questions
because I'm curious. If you wantto know about me, you'll ask.
(07:47):
But otherwise, if you're goingto be guarded, and it goes back
to vulnerability, some peopleare going to be guard and go, I
don't know this feels awkward,but also, when you feel that a
person's quote, unquote selling,I've always, never been the I'm
a seller. I always admit I can'tsell ice to an Eskimo. I only
want to sell what the Eskimoneeds.
Angie (08:07):
If I think the Eskimo needs the ice, I could sell it
all day long. However, how oftendoes an Eskimo need
Unknown (08:14):
ice? Right? Exactly? I don't know. Is that PC? Can I
even say this anymore? I don'tknow. I don't
Angie (08:19):
know. I it's, about, it's the swamp land in Florida thing.
But, well, I would, I wouldrather sell ice to Eskimos than
sell swamp land in Florida inthe year 2025 moving on, I
really, I agree with what yousaid, because something occurred
to me that might be quotable.Maybe we'll throw it on the in
(08:40):
the in the notes. Rapport, to meis the difference, right? If you
are in a conversation that lookslike a tennis match, you
probably haven't taken the timeto build the rapport that
actually makes it an exchangewhere you're receiving
information and leveraging thatto continue the conversation,
versus a back and forth. And Ithink that's the case whether
you're actually in a jobinterview, something that could
(09:01):
be a job interview or trying tounderstand, you know, how two
people can can work together andcollaborate and connect.
Unknown (09:07):
100% couldn't say it better. Mic
Angie (09:11):
drop. So related, related, but kind of an aside. I
want to know about a memorableconnection of yours. So do you
have a connection that standsout in your mind that has just
completely changed either yourtrajectory in work or life.
Unknown (09:29):
Ooh, that's a good one. Changed my I mean, I guess I if
I think about it, I've gotten myjobs. Most of my jobs have all
come through connections. SoI've never been one to be able
to get a job from a let me fillout a resume. If we go back to
(09:50):
first job out of college. It wasthe recruiters that came on
college, right? So I guess inthat regards, they got to know
me, was relationship that I wasable to develop. And they. Saw
whatever they saw on 22 year oldversion of Greg, right? But then
thereafter, my time with Yahoocame through. At the time, the
girl I was dating, I we all gotlet go from the My first job, so
(10:14):
I was unemployed. So it's like,all right, what am I going to
do? And she's like, Well, mycoworker who turned down this
job who's now working with me,they must be hiring. So it made
the connection. The interviewside was all on me, but
ultimately, the door that wasopen was through a connection,
and that's literally how it'sbeen for the majority of my
career. And if I look at like,the last three or four jobs, I
(10:37):
mean, I'm the head ofrelationships for rss.com, I've
chosen that title for the lastthree companies, and all three
of those have come throughrelationships or social media in
some regards.
Angie (10:48):
We're going to pause here. And for any of you out
there who are job seekers, whomay have heard me say one time
or 100 that once you stop,network, start. Networking never
stop. Greg is living, breathing,walking proof of why that is the
case, and it is more importantnow than ever, with the current
market conditions, to lean intoreal human connection, because
(11:13):
it we can open doors for eachother that a computer cannot,
and
Unknown (11:17):
that's why I believe a, I will always have a job, and B,
the the business of Greg as arelationship generator will be
something that can use for thenext 30 years and not worry
about AI going, you know what?AI is going to match Greg and
Angie far better than Patrickbeing able to match you and I
(11:39):
together, which is probably AIcould do it, but it's never
going to be as trustworthy asgoing you know what someone else
vouch for you when you thinkabout after we got introduced,
and then the introductions Imade for you, and the
conversations we've had, andjust the doors that keep opening
up, AI is not doing that, andthat's where the relationship
and then I live on LinkedIn. Iknow you do as well. Yes, it's
(12:05):
always boggles my mind when Icome across the profiles that
have, they don't have any post.I don't know really who they
are. I've got their resume.That's about it, in terms of of
what I can gather from them andand and they they don't feel
like it's a platform that theyneed to because they're
currently employed. The problemis is you don't know when the
(12:30):
Callen is going to drop, right?So always be network. And one of
the best things that the samekid that I did the magic cards
with, one of the smartest thingshe told me that I can walk away
with, is if a recruiter reachesout to you, even if you love
your job, even if you're happywith it, take that recruiter's
call. Control your excitement.There Angie, but can take that
(12:50):
recruiter call even if you havethe worst experience with
recruiters, they're stillhumans. You have no clue what
one conversation is going to becompared to another with a
recruiter, but take that,because they're clearly reaching
out and having your name intheir database. Yep. Where's the
harm in that? And they'll,they'll hopefully guide you of
what they're looking for, whichalso helps you understand what
(13:12):
skills do I need that they'relooking for, that either I
should be skilling up or I don'tcare for this. This isn't for
me.
Angie (13:19):
Well, the reason I'm getting excited is because this
is this is like everybody outthere who gets to hear what
Angie preaches from someoneelse's mouth, maybe they'll
actually listen. But you know,fundamentally, there's so many
little things there. First ofall, I'm glad you brought AI to
the table, because I believe,just very succinctly, that AI is
actually going to make realhuman connection even more
(13:41):
important than it has been inthe past. And we'll just leave
it at that. So this doesn't turninto an AI conversation, because
I really want to dig into whatyou mentioned about, like the
response thing, because one ofthe number one complaints that
we hear from job seekers is thelack of feedback and the
presence of ghosting Don't bethe same on the other end,
(14:01):
right? Even if recruiters goesto you, who doesn't, I don't
care, answer every single one ofthem, because you might not know
what they have for you in thefuture. You we get to be humans,
even when others are not people.That is the new rise above bar,
in my opinion.
Unknown (14:17):
And so I'm going to pull that thread even more. And
I was having a conversationrecently with someone about
this, actually was my therapist,come to think about it, so the
balance, I believe that life isabout time and relationships. I
have no clue where oneconversation is going to lead.
Therefore, if we take thisrecruiter thing, I don't know
(14:39):
where that conversation with therecruiter will take me five
years from now, if thatrecruiter is still a in the
business or B, they got out ofit, and there's somewhere else
that I could work with ornetwork. It's a relationship
that I can pull and and andleverage later on that I have no
clue where the the value of itis today, but the conversation I
was having with my therapist.Was around, how do we balance?
(15:03):
And this is what I strugglewith. But I truly believe
there's value in it, the shortterm transactional mindset
versus the long term benefits ofa relationship. And what I mean
here is I'm not looking for ajob right now, so I'm not going
to respond to this person, inthis case, recruiter or
someone's trying to sell me, I'mnot going to respond to this
(15:24):
because I don't have the timeright now. There's only so many
hours in the day. You know himas well as I do. My mentor Rob
Durant, a shout out. He's like,there's only 20. There's not 28
hours in a day. I don't have thetime to answer everything, but I
make the time tomorrow. What isit a Friday of this week when
we're recording this whatever?My whole day is. Afternoon is
(15:46):
dedicated to making intros. Someof them for you. Is that going
to benefit me? Am I going to getthe transaction? Am I going to
get the sale, whatever, whateverthe I need to cross this off my
list item that drives revenue,drives whatever today's need is
no but the value of that is thelong term relationships, long
term connections, and also beingthe guy that goes, You know
(16:08):
what? Greg made this intro. Andthere's value in that. There's a
lot of people that live theirlives in the transactional and
they probably are making a lotmore money than I've ever made,
but I feel exactly and I feelincredibly grateful that I get
to be the one that gets tocreate those connections and be
the time spent on doing so
Angie (16:32):
there is, there is an actual currency that is, that is
the karma bank. I fully believethat. And I think in this idea
of making connections and kindof like, what are you going to
do for me? Land? If you want tobe really genuine and authentic
about this, you have to let goof immediate, instant
gratification, because it will,like, it could be years and
(16:52):
years and years down the road. Imean, I'll tell you, just before
you and I came on, Greg, I wasbouncing around the living room,
as you can imagine, I may bebecause I got an email from
somebody who I talked to aboutan on site facilitation gig a
year ago, and it didn't happen.I've kept in touch with her, and
now they have new year, newbudget, and she's like, I think
we're ready to go. So you justabsolutely never know when
(17:14):
something's gonna come back. Andif you let go of the need for
this instant gratification thatwe all have nowadays, it can be
a little bit more like, Yeah,I'm gonna make the connection.
Who cares when and what doescome back to me, but the karma
bank says something will. Nowyou brought up something that I
actually wanted to talk aboutdriving revenue. So we've talked
a lot about career opportunitiesthrough community and
(17:35):
connection. I'm really curious,from your perspective, how
community drives revenue. I'dlove an example and a little bit
Unknown (17:47):
more thought on that. Wow, that's a good one. I've
been managing three differentcommunities. I fell into
community management partlybecause I'm the relationship
guy. So you work for startupswhere they are, the developer,
guys or gals. You know, I use itgenerically, but like, they're,
you're the guy, so go do it. AndI'm like, perfect. How do I go
(18:11):
ahead and not think aboutcommunity in the sense of a
funnel, a funnel where I can letanyone into this community, and
I'm trying to funnel them intowhatever my sale, whether it's a
software, whether it's acoaching, whether whatever it
may be that I'm trying to sellthem into, I've always used
(18:33):
community as a closed you'realready a customer of mine. How
do I provide value to you? Andso that's the retention side.
But for me, it allows me to haveone on one conversations with
people. And I work for productled growth companies, so I'm
working with 1000s of users. Ican send emails all day, and
this is this is never going tobe able to have the one on one
(18:55):
interaction I need. I'm nevergoing to get to talk to them in
the way. So if I've used I builtmy communities over slack,
because I live in Slack.Companies I work for all are
slack, so that is where I'vegone. But community, in that
regards, becomes so much such anROI focus piece, because I am
providing more value to theuser, so they're finding the
(19:17):
product. And this is what I lookI mean, my LinkedIn says I'm a
humanization specialist, becauseI like to humanize companies.
Product led growth companiestend to be bring you in, get you
signed up for the software, andthen you move on, but you're
already there, and I'll give youwhatever the I'm like, No,
create a community so that I canhave this one on one
(19:39):
conversation. I can do trainingswith them. I can get them
talking, which is what I love inmy communities. Part of the
whole thing that everyone's likeGreg, this is, how do you do
this? I'll tag you. So if Angiecame into my community and she
said, I do X, Y and Z, I'm goingto tag five other people,
assuming I get five other peoplegoing, Hey, Angie does similar
(19:59):
to what. You do, or she's in theDenver area, or whatever it is,
so you've got more connection,so you don't feel alone, because
that's the biggest thing we allare looking for. Humans need
connection. So if I can createthe connection for you, you're
going to look at my company notas a it's just a product that I
use, and it serves its need.You're going to look at my
company now as Wow. This issolving all these other
(20:22):
relationship issues that I mayhave had, business opportunities
that I didn't even think about,and you're creating
conversations that no one at thefirst glance was thinking they
were going to have, that you'venow surfaced because you've
created that community
Angie (20:36):
environment. And at the high level, you're building
relationships with people. And Ilove the idea of like, to me, it
comes back to the idea of theintention behind the community.
Is it simply a another funnelwhere people are swimming at the
top and your whole sole purposeis to get them all the way down
to, you know, desire andconversion? Or are you okay if
(20:58):
they always just keep onswimming in the middle of an
awareness, but they're getting awhole lot of other stuff out of
it right. And I think that'swhere the intention of what you
want a community to do changesbetween transactional,
transactional sales or marketingtactic and actually
authentically wanting to buildrelationships with with the
(21:18):
community of users, for example,that will increase retention and
increase referrals, and allowthem to do the same with each
other.
Unknown (21:26):
And your last piece there the referrals, that's
that's a key piece. If I canturn all my customers into
advocates, into this isn't justa great product that serves my
needs, but also a great productthat that you have to be part of
this product because of all theresources, all the knowledge,
all the connections I've made intheir community, in their
(21:49):
trainings and so forth, they'renow your biggest advocate, which
goes to and I know we've, we'vetalked offline about this, but
like, the customer experiencesis huge. So if I can now create
a better customer experience.That's only going to drive more
revenue, more brand awareness,more know, like and trust. We
like these people. We're goingto do business with these people
(22:10):
because they care about us.
Angie (22:12):
And again, to just weave the AI piece in here, those
things are more important now asAI is disrupting and going to
make so many things the same,right? If you are the the diff,
if you are differentiated by thelevel of humanism, you add to
your business, you actually willstand out. And I think this is a
(22:32):
good time to ask for a littlepiece of advice. This might be
loaded. So, you know, we'reselling this idea of, like, go
create a community. And sothere's got to be somebody out
there who's listening, who'sgoing, this is a good idea. How
the heck do I do that? So, Greg,how the heck do we do it?
Unknown (22:48):
I, I'm, I'm going to give my two cents on it in in
the sense that I know there's somany different ways you can go
ahead and create a community.There's, there's platforms out
there. As I said, I built minein Slack, because that's where I
live. As I've learned, you'renever going to appease everyone.
I've get this all the time.Greg, why aren't you building
(23:10):
this in discord? Why aren't youbuilding this in mighty network?
Why aren't you building thisschool? Whatever it may be, take
your pick. You're not going toappease everyone. The role of
platforms that that we all haveissues with that just software
as a whole. So have anunderstanding and what your
strategy is. That's how do Ibegin? What is the strategy?
(23:30):
What am I trying to accomplish?Why am I actually bringing
people together? For me, when Icame to rss.com, I'm like, you
guys, first thing we're going todo is build a community so that
we can actually start talking tothem, because you don't send the
emails, whatever emails you'resending. Revolutionary.
Angie (23:46):
Let's talk to our customers. But
Unknown (23:49):
there's the let's pick up the phone and talk to them,
or let's put him in a placewhere you get to see them
talking to each other. You startsurfacing conversations that you
didn't have control. And like,we can look at it and I cut
myself off control over you haveto remove that essence of
control. There's some controlthat you have. But if you're
bringing people in, you could,quote, unquote, have trolls, but
(24:13):
they're all your customers. Soeven if they're providing you
product feedback, at least, theway I've built my community is
they're already existingcustomers, the feedback they're
giving you are people that wantto use your product, that want
to make it better. Why wouldn'tyou want to have that direct
feedback? And then, and I'velearned working for product as a
(24:34):
sales person, if a customer istelling me and can I think of it
as a complaint, but my productteam is going, Wow, this is
genius. I didn't think aboutthat. That's great stuff that we
can go ahead and use. So come torealize what I may think is is a
quote, unquote dis if you wantproduct is looking at as this
opportunity. So everything thatyou can get from your customers
(24:57):
when you bring them together andhumanize that. Brands, you can't
beat that. So when you'restarting a community, understand
what is the strategy that youare trying to go with? Is it a
funnel? Are you trying to getpeople to sell? But in my case,
bring your customers together. Ithink what is it we know Alyssa,
(25:21):
one of the things I believe shedid was created a community for
just the guests on her podcast,because, hey, why would I want
all these amazing people thatare on my podcast to come into a
place and meet each other andthen speak highly about me
because they were on my podcast.But also maybe there's
opportunities, maybe there'scollaboration, if you can be the
catalyst, and not just bringinginformation, in the case that
(25:43):
you're doing Angie to peoplethrough your podcast, but also
through a community of only theguests, because you've hand
selected these people. I mean,that only elevates your power,
your know, like and trust andyour opportunity to spread your
message even more.
Angie (26:00):
Okay, now I have a genius idea. Also, you all met Alyssa
recently. She was a guest on nomore Mondays thanks to Greg's
introduction, because she is themaybe one two thirds of my age
blonde doppelganger with apodcast called Taking Back
Mondays. So as soon as Greg andI met, he was like, You need to
meet Alyssa. And I think that'sa that's actually a really cool
(26:23):
idea, because one of the thingsI say all the time, just
anecdotally, is the community isone of my favorite aspects of
podcasting, because it's beenable to give get me into
conversation and community withpeople I probably wouldn't have
had had a reason to engage withotherwise. And so, you know,
that's just another example ofeverything we're talking about
around plugging yourself in,surrounding yourself, or
(26:46):
creating the kind of communitythat is where, almost where you
want to be. And so Greg, herecomes another maybe loaded
question. Because, you know,we've talked a lot about how
much we each love humans. And soI can't sit here and talk about
AI and communities, if I don'task you about you and your human
and so I'm curious. Like, I knowyou've done a bunch of growth
(27:06):
work. You mentioned therapyearlier, so I don't even have to
bring that to the table. But youknow, in all of your growth work
and in all of this buildingcommunities, what have you
learned about yourself and whatsurprised you in that
exploration?
Unknown (27:19):
I guess it goes back to the the therapy conversation.
It's, How do I balance? How doyou balance the short term
needs, especially from a whetheryou're running your own company,
you are your own worst critic,and you can always be doing more
to working for someone else,who's How do I earn my paycheck,
and how do I make sure I hit mymetrics type deal to the long
(27:42):
term, what is core to who I am?And I'd say part of it is, is I
am my own boss, time andrelationships LLC, while also
working for a podcast company,rss.com, so there's a duality
there, but that's what I love.To your point about podcasting,
what I love about podcasting isit's community driven. So I have
(28:05):
a background in partnerships,and now I've fallen into
podcasting. Both are communitydriven, because in partnerships,
you basically go, Hey, Angie,this is what I do. I this is
what I know, what I know of whatI think you do. I think there's
a there, there we should talk.And most partnership people are
like, Yeah, let's, let's, let'sget together. Because even if
(28:25):
we're not together or it's aright fit, I probably know other
people I'm going to introduceyou to, because most partnership
people are the No offense, butthe red headed stepchild of the
family,
Angie (28:38):
and so get everything we've just talked about,
Unknown (28:41):
yeah, exactly. And then community within podcasting,
everyone complains, and thestatistics, there's there's call
it, just under 400,000 activepodcasts, and it's podcasting is
this popular term right now. Soeveryone thinks, oh, I can't
start a podcast. The great thingabout the podcast community is
(29:01):
we are all here to lift eachother up. We're all just trying
to figure it out. No one knowseverything about social, about
publishing and everything elsethat's out there. So it really
becomes this amazing piece thatI've learned about myself is
find your people, find acommunity that fits with what
your your essence is, my essenceis. Life is about time,
(29:24):
relationship. I get to work in apodcast area where your day to
day job is not the no moreMondays, a list is day to day
job is. Forget. What is it?Forget the Sunday. Oh. Take back
what? Take back Monday. Takeback Mondays, right? So like
each person that's doing apodcast that is a channel for
(29:47):
them, that is a medium forum,and I literally get to spend my
time talking to you, not just onthis podcast about podcasting,
consulting you in podcasting,but hey, let's talk about your
day job and that component. Thathas been the biggest thing I've
learned through all this aboutfind something that feels right,
(30:07):
and you can actually make money.You can make a career. But it
took the 20 years of theunhappiness, the I'm just doing
this for the paycheck. I'm doingthis because I don't know what
else to do. And if we pull thisthread, that's where we have to
keep doing. You don't know wherethese relationships will go. We
don't know where the skill setsfrom 22 Greg to 42 version,
(30:30):
Greg, I can just follow theline. And ultimately, I
understood that the line waspeople and connections and
relationships,
Angie (30:38):
yeah, and that's what I think is so interesting. When I
talk to somebody who's like, I'dreally love to do really love to
do X, or people don't know whatto do with me, because I've got
this unique mix of experience.And I'm like, oh, there's
somebody out there who knowsexactly what to do with you. You
just need to be visible andaware of it, and community is
exactly the way to do it. Thereyou go. All right. So speaking
(31:02):
of communities, how do peopleget into yours? How do we find
you? How do we stay in touchwith all of your great life and
work, wisdom, podcast, knowledgeand all the things.
Unknown (31:12):
I'm also the person who says, I do, don't do as I don't.
What is it I screwed that oneup. Say, do as I say, yeah, not
as I do, because I don't have apodcast, and we can go down that
path. I don't have a website. Ilive on LinkedIn, even though
I've lost two jobs becausesocial media changed their
(31:33):
algorithms and there went ourcompany's revenue. But I live on
LinkedIn, that's where I post mycontent. If you're thinking
about a podcast, amazingrss.com. Is where I work. It's
the community I run there, aswell as everything else with
inside relationships for thecompany. But yeah, I love to
(31:54):
talk to people. I'm an opendoor. I am also an open book. So
please reach out, and that alsobecomes the greatest gift you
can give to Angie, which mostpeople don't realize. As those
of us that are in podcasting, wefeel like we're speaking to
avoid, avoid like who'slistening to me. From an
(32:15):
analytics standpoint, we don'treally get an understanding of
who the downloads are. We don'tunderstand who the individual
is. So nothing's better thansomeone reaching out to Angie
and go, Hey, Angie. I reallylove this episode. Trust me, you
will make her day. She's notgoing to try and sell you
because of it. She's just goingto go like, Thank you. You made
my day. And the same is whensomeone reaches out and said,
(32:38):
Hey, Greg, I heard you on Angieshow, X, Y and Z. I'm gonna, a,
probably use that as a piece ofcontent to validate that
relationships matter. B, sendthat back to Angie and go, Hey,
Angie, here's what so and sosaid you actually didn't know
they listened to your show, butthey did, and they liked it, or
at least what I had to say.Can't speak for your for you in
(32:58):
that regards. But hey, theytoned in for you, right?
Angie (33:01):
Well, and you know, for all content creators out there,
I think Greg and I can say thatuniversally, it's a, it is a, it
is a tough, some, some sometimesseemingly thankless job, because
we don't get the amount offeedback that is proportional to
the amount of work we put in.And so we just have to trust
that we are making a difference.And I know I can completely
(33:23):
agree with you that, you know, Isend out the Sunday scaries
emails, and somebody responds,and they'll be like, Oh my gosh,
this is exactly what I needed tohear this week. And it's like,
okay, that just made, you know,12 other editions of of the
podcast or the newslettercompletely worth the time. And
so I think that that's just a tome, that's an exclamation point
on this entire conversationaround be a human in community
(33:45):
with humans and treat otherswith the love, respect and
humanism that you want to be youwant to be treated with. And
isn't that a lesson that wecould escalate to a macro level?
But we will leave that foranother day, because what I want
to make sure all of you heardfrom this conversation is that
(34:05):
relationships are strategy.They're also what makes the
world go round. So Greg, I lovethat you are here to remind all
of us that every deal, everyjob, every idea, is a person has
a person behind it. And showingup with curiosity can really
opened doors you never imagined20 year old Greg would never
imagine he is where he is rightnow. And I think I could say the
(34:26):
same thing for that formerengineer who loves people. So as
we wrap things up, Greg, I'mgoing to ask you one more
question, and that is another,another kind of self reflect.
You told me before we startedrecording that you like, or self
reflection. So I'm going to justmake you do it in front of a
live studio audience. You know,through this, through the
transformation that you've hadboth yourself and with finding
(34:46):
work that's really satissatisfying, I want to know kind
of a belief that you haveadopted that's helped you build
this, this life and careerrooted in connection.
Unknown (34:59):
Say, Yes. Yes. I mean, since we're a tail end, I won't
go into like deeper details,because that is a completely
different episode, or we'll justcontinue going right, right. But
I've learned growth mindset,saying yes is a key piece, and
(35:20):
I'll leave it with this. When Iwas unemployed at the time and I
was given the opportunity to gowork for a bootstrap startup
Cast Magic while the salarywasn't there, they're like,
Greg, we can't pay you. And I'mlike, well, the alternative is
is keep trying to find a jobthat will pay me what I'm worth,
or I can have this opportunity,this experience and this door
(35:41):
opening to take this and go, andI can't speak to anyone else's
financial situation, but atleast I was financially secure
to be able to take this and say,You know what, I can afford
doing this and learn from it.It's like basically taking that
internship where most people areafraid to do if you can get
paid, or the opportunity, if wecan lock think about AI, if you
(36:05):
have the opportunity in this AIworld to learn skills that you
can use later on, say yes toooften. We are so afraid to say
yes to things, because itdoesn't it's not that it doesn't
feel right. It's the level ofdiscomfort that we aren't
willing to lean into, becausewe're used to the comfort. So if
(36:26):
we say yes to things, you willcontinue to grow. And if you can
grow 1% every day, but the endof the year, it's 38 times
better than you were on day one.Say yes more, and you will
actually find yourself now froma therapy since we touched on
this, there is also value insaying no. So yeah, right,
(36:47):
there's
Angie (36:47):
the other side of the coin. However, I believe message
has I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'mgonna wrap that into a nutshell
of like, take a chance onyourself, right? We all know the
cliche that growth doesn'thappen in the comfort zone, but
we all love to stay in thecomfort zone and expect growth
is going to happen. And that'swhere saying yes and kind of
betting on yourself comes in toplay. And that is the yes that
(37:09):
Greg is talking about.
Unknown (37:11):
There you go. I love it. Do
Angie (37:13):
you all see why Greg and I were like Insta friends?
Because, you know, similar to myperspective, you know, we're in
this world of AI ghosting,digital everything. It turns out
that connections are where itat, where it's at, and my little
hashtag that I like to useeverywhere on LinkedIn, humans
still matter. So I'm going tochallenge all of you out there
(37:35):
this week to act like humansstill matter. Send a warm
introduction. Think about twopeople in your network who need
to know each other and playmatch banker. You never know
where it'll lead for them, andyou never know where it'll lead
for you. And if it feels reallygood, do it again next week.
How's that? This has been anamazing episode of no more
Mondays. Greg Wasserman, thankyou so much for joining me,
(37:57):
being vulnerable, being curious,and proving, yet again, that a
good network can take you justabout anywhere. I appreciate you
and your time.
Unknown (38:04):
Thank you likewise.
Angie (38:07):
Don't forget to catch our Wednesday mini drop. Midweek
momentum. It comes out onWednesday afternoons at 2pm and
I will see you next Mondaymorning for another edition of
no more Mondays podcast. Behuman. Everybody. Bye. And
Unknown (38:26):
I'm.
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