April 29, 2025 • 56 mins
Ep 73: Alberto Aguilar on Making Art from Everyday Life
Summary of the Episode:
In this episode of noseyAF: Conversations About Art, Activism, and Social Change, artist and host Stephanie Graham sits down with Alberto Aguilar, a multidisciplinary artist known for transforming everyday moments and interactions into meaningful creative expressions. The conversation explores how Aguilar weaves art into the rhythms of family, teaching, and community life. If you’ve ever wondered how to sustain creativity without compartmentalizing your life, this episode is for you.
This episode is a follow-up to Alberto’s first appearance in Episode 35, “I Was Wrong About Alberto Aguilar.”
Takeaways
- The conversation emphasizes the significance of engaging with everyday objects to derive meaning and foster communication.
- Alberto Aguilar’s exhibition, A Factual Account, explores the interplay between art, presence, and the narratives objects can evoke.
- The discussion reveals the creative process, highlighting how constraints can lead to innovative expressions in artistic practice.
- Aguilar shares insights on how personal experiences and family history influence his work, underscoring the connection between art and human experience.
Chapters
00:24 – A Conversation with Alberto Aguilar
01:40 – The Ladder Performance: A Journey of Collaboration and Creativity
16:05 – The Journey of an Artist
19:28 – The Complexity of Identity and Art
27:31 – The Art of Activation: Engaging with Objects and Space
36:51 – Exploring Aesthetic and Contextual Poetics
50:58 – Exploring Doubt and Certainty
53:20 – The Dream of a Grocery Store Art Space
Guest Bio
Alberto Aguilar is a Chicago-based artist who uses whatever materials are at hand to make meaningful connections with viewers. He does not distinguish his art practice from his other life roles, which allows him to make work wherever he is. He has shown and presented work in museums, galleries, storefronts, homes, and street corners around the world.
Resources Mentioned in This Episode
Engage Projects – Alberto Aguilar
Last Time Alberto was on noseyAF: “I Was Wrong About Alberto Aguilar” – Episode 35
Noteworthy Quotes from This Episode
“Limitations are not obstacles — they are the source material.”
“I’m not trying to make art about life. I’m trying to make life into art.”
“I think the best work comes from the moments you’re most present.”
Connect with Alberto Aguilar
Instagram: @albert0aguilar
Website: albertoaguilar.org
Connect & Stay Updated with Stephanie
Visit my website (Art, Projects & More)
Follow on Instagram (@stephaniegraham)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
Gotta get up, get up Tell thewhole world you will win a winner
Vision of a star with amission in the cause what you doing,
how you doing? What you'redoing and who you are Flex yourself
and press yourself Checkyourself, don't wreck yourself if
you know me then you know thatI be knowing what's up. Hey, Stephanie.
Graham is nosy as WLPNLPChicago 105.5 FM Lumpin radio. Hey,
(00:33):
Chicago, hope you're enjoyingyour afternoon. I'm your host, Stephanie,
and I'll be with you for thehour. Last month I sat down with
artist and educator AlbertoAguilar inside his exhibition A Factual
Account at Engage Projects. Wewere literally surrounded by the
work everyday objects, text,sound and video. And we talked about
(00:56):
meaning, making communicationand just being present with the things
around us. So today we'rerevisiting that space. Think of it
as a little time tour. Comealong and listen with me. Here's
Alberto.
Welcome, Alberto. Thank youfor having me.
Yeah, thank you.
(01:17):
This is very exciting.
You can came to the opening.
Yes, I did.
And I saw you and I said, thisis the person that I would like to
conduct because sometimes theydo interviews with guest interviewers.
And when I saw you, I said,this is the person that I would love
to do an interview with herelive in this space.
(01:40):
Oh, what a dream. Thank you somuch. Well, congratulations on your
exhibition. This is wonderful.A factual account. I think where
I would love to start is lastweekend you had your 12 foot, 10
foot ladder. 10 foot, 10 footladder performance.
Stick to the facts.
Yes. With Saoirse.
(02:02):
Yeah.
Yes. It was a. I keep sayingthe word thrilling performance. You
all were. Can you describe it?
Yeah. This was the seconditeration of this latter performance.
This one was by far moresuccessful because we did rehearsals,
(02:24):
but the latter became. Wedidn't know what it was going to
be about. But I think it endedup becoming, like you said, thrilling.
There's another word. Likethere was an aspect of magic or sleight
of hand to the performance.And then there was one last thing
that I keep saying and Iforgot, but it was thrilling. Like
(02:46):
there was moments of suspense.Yeah, yeah.
And how did that feel?
Acts of daring?
It was definitely daringbecause I feel like I was standing
by Jennifer and you guys woulddo these things where they were pushing
this ladder back and forthwith each other and then they would
like move it about and we wereall just like over there, like, oh,
my God. How did it come about?
(03:09):
How did you get thatperformance? Oh, yeah, that's a Good
question, because it actuallycame about. Saoirse was my student
in a class, and there was aladder that was brought into our
class at a certain point. AndI think Saoirse first started interacting
(03:30):
with the ladder. And wheneverSasha, somebody's doing, like, these
actions, like, I want to alsobe part. So we both started to just,
like, during studio time, wewould just do things on the ladder,
like make. Just do gestures onthe ladder. And I think at a certain
(03:51):
point, we realized that itcould be something. And I was invited
to be in a show, to do aperformance, and it came right in
the moment when this ladder.These ladder actions were happening.
And I said, this should be theperformance. So it happened at Compound
Yellow first.
(04:11):
Why was there a ladder in the classroom?
That's a long story, but Icould try to tell it, really. Okay,
I will tell it because it isimportant. I used to teach nextdoor
to Alex Bradley Cohen, who isa very close friend and past collaborator.
He was excited to be teachingnext door with me, and we thought
(04:34):
that it'd be funny to playpractical jokes on each of our classes.
Oh, okay.
So one time, Alex and I founda ladder out in the hallway, and
we had two doors in thisclassroom. So we came in one door
holding the ladder, and thenwe did a couple rounds. And I think
on the third round, we leftthe ladder in the room and I thought
(04:55):
that I was playing a funnyjoke on the. On the students, like,
creating. I love creatingmoments of confusion because those
are moments for me oflearning. So we left the ladder in
the classroom, opened, andAlex and I walked out. And then I
come back like, I'm notkidding. It was probably like two
minutes later or less. I comeback into the classroom and the students
(05:15):
are all congregated on theladder in a jungle gym. No, they
were doing, like, a parade.Like, they were praying. Oh, yeah.
I think Saoirse was actuallyleading the prayer. So the joke was
on me. Like, they. Like, I wastrying to confuse them. And then
I come in and there's a prayercircle around the ladder.
Wow.
And they got me. They outdidme on that one.
(05:37):
Yeah, they definitely did.Good call. Yeah. It's like, who do
you pray to? What? The ladder.I've never heard that before. It's
something new to me, but yeah.Cool. So you have this exhibition
and how did this come about?You were saying these are. You hadn't
been in the studio in a while.This is like, your first work back
in the studio or something?
(05:58):
Yes, sort of. Yes. Aconcentrated time in the studio,
which is funny, because itwasn't even that much time. It was
probably like two months inthe studio. It came about because
Jennifer had an open slot inthe gallery, and she asked me if
I would take that open slot,because I think Jennifer understands
(06:20):
that I do things. What did wesay on the fly? On the fly.
We wing it.
We wing it. Like, I like doingthings fast. I like the thing that
it produces when you're underpressure and you have to make something.
So I was given this space, andthat's. And I made all of the work
(06:43):
for that time slot. And, yeah,it was two months that I worked on
all this stuff, and it startedwith more sculptural things. I don't
know why. At the beginning, Ithought that it was gonna be a show
of these sculptural objects.But at a certain point, I was like.
I said to myself, what's gonnabe on the walls? Gotta put something
on the walls.
(07:03):
Right.
So I started making hungthings that are kind of like paintings.
Yeah. Because. Yeah, I don'tthink I've seen a lot of sculptural
shows and think about what'son the walls. But, yeah, they don't
put stuff on the walls atsculpture shows.
You got to dress the walls.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, like, by painting it or something.
(07:24):
Well. Oh, you're talking aboutsculpture shows. I don't know. For
me, I thought to make objectsthat would hang on the wall. I think
I, I. I started with thesetwo, and I think I, I. My wife, Sonia,
bought me this. She. She worksat a thrift store, and she bought
(07:44):
me this tile here. She. Shesends me pictures. Do you want this?
And she sent me a box of thistile, and I just said yes. And so
I mounted this stuff on apiece of plywood, and I think that
I got really excited when Iframed it with this blue felt. I
said, these are paintings.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love the choice of the bluefelt because, like, as a photographer,
(08:07):
I'm always thinking aboutdifferent ways to frame things. So
was the blue felt from thethrift store, too?
No. So all this stuff issourced from different places, but
a lot of it comes from mydaughter, Madeline, who works at
UIC in the architecture anddesign department. She just. She's
a hoarder. Oh, kind of. Yeah.So she brings material that they're
(08:30):
just throwing out. So shebrought a bunch of these felt strips,
and she wasn't really doingwith all the anything with all the
stuff that she hoarded becauseshe currently is not working in the
studio. So I was like, I'mgonna use this material.
Right?
Yeah.
You spoke at your tour abouthaving a hoarder mentality. Can you
(08:54):
define that? What do you thinkthat means to you?
Yeah, I would say my fatherwas a hoarder. Like, deep down inside,
he was one of those peoplethat would just collect newspapers
and collect things. And, youknow, probably if it wasn't for my.
My mom, the house would have.Because he has a sister who's actually
(09:14):
in the show also. She's theone that I made the sound recordings
with. She was a hoarder. Like,she had the same sensibility that
my dad had. So she lived inmoments, which is. It's like a farm
town here in Illinois. And shehad this house that was just, you
know. You've seen horror shows.
Oh, yeah. I was sort ofthinking. I was like, would she have
(09:37):
been on the show Hoarders?
She would have been on theshow. Oh, it was very, very bad.
She would build structuresaround herself with magazines and
newspapers, and it was not alivable space. So I think I have
some of that inside of me. Butat a certain point, I had to break
that curse. You know, Like, Iwould be the person that would go
(09:59):
in the alleys and say, look atthat thing. I want it. I want. I
could use that. But, like, Ithink at a certain point, I said
to myself, I don't want thisto be me. I don't want these objects
to overtake me.
Right. And then something elsethat somebody had said, too, last
week was, you know, becausenow these are all works. They're
(10:23):
available for someone to take.Do you have, like, personal. Like,
personal thought to them? Thatmakes sense.
Like personal attachments.
Yeah, personal attachments.
Yeah. No, I'm fine getting ridof all of them. They're all for sale.
And I would be fine if all ofthem were sold off. I would be perfectly
(10:43):
fine with that. And I wouldn'tmiss them either. I mean, I love
going. I love when somebodyowns my work. And then I don't see
it for 10 years, becausethat's more exciting than holding
onto it. Because when you holdonto it, you just. You're too close
to it and you can no longersee it. But when you're away from
it for 10 years, it's like, itspeaks to you. Yeah, it could speak
(11:05):
to you.
And it takes up space, too.
Yeah, it takes up space. I wasa painter also, and I made a lot
of paintings in my life, and Ididn't really sell any of them, so
they ended up in my Mother'sbasement. And that would always.
That would always bring mesadness. Just that these paintings
are just all there, and I haveto babysit them.
(11:30):
I'm sure a lot of painterscould relate to that. Are they still.
Are they still in a basement painting?
No, they're in my studio. Ihave a little loft area.
Oh, okay.
That's a storage area. So allthe sign works.
What do you. What are thenames of these works?
Sign. Oh, sign like objects.
Sign like objects.
(11:51):
Yeah. Everything is likeobjects. So those are sign like objects.
These are painting likeobjects. These are sculpture like
objects. That's a video likeobject. I think maybe not the video
has a title. It's probably theonly thing with an.
Actual title and with the signlike objects. These were their texts
(12:14):
on. Can you describe them?
Yeah, they are aluminum withreflective vinyl. They're actually
the signs that you see out onthe streets. This company that I
worked with to fabricate theseactually make signs for the city
(12:35):
of Chicago. So they'reofficial materials with text that.
It's like. I would. I woulddescribe it as text in visual form.
So the form actually describeswhat's happening in the image. Does
(12:56):
that make sense? Sodismembered is a good example. That's
probably my favorite onebecause. And that one's a pair. Dismembered
Remembered. But I really likedismembered because I don't know
if you could tell, but it's afigure that is missing a foot. Yeah,
I thought that was witty.
I thought it was witty, too,if I was to try this, because you
(13:20):
said that these are text.
Well, I made them as text messages.
Text messages.
Yeah.
If. What's like. If I want totry that. What's like a beginning
word?
I could try to make you giveme a word. You can use any word.
Just give me a nice, simpleword. Or maybe something that reappears
in your text.
Running.
That's a good one. I mean,obviously you could make a figure
(13:43):
in running form, but there'sdifferent things you could do. Like
failing, for instance. Right.Like, that was an easy one. Like,
the G fails to fall within thediagonal. So I don't know. I mean,
sometimes it's about. Youdon't want to be too obvious.
Yeah. I just wonder if, like,have you ever texted anyone back
(14:04):
and they've been waiting?They're like, why is Alberto not
texting me back? And then youget like, something like that.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah. Because I do. I makethem in real time.
Yeah.
So, yeah, the person has towait while I make them Right. Yeah.
But I also make them on notes.
Oh, okay.
(14:24):
Yeah, I make them on notesbecause I don't want the person to
see the little bubbles thatthey're being made. Like, I want
to know. I want them to knowthat they don't have to wait till
these things are made. So I'llmake them on the note app on my phone,
and then I'll copy and pastethem onto the text.
Oh, okay. I do that withInstagram captions. Like writing
notes and then copy paste it.Yeah. It's so much easier.
(14:47):
It's easier. Yeah.
Yeah.
Because sometimes you couldlose that information, too, and you
don't want to do that.
Yeah, well. Or you're, like,someplace and you're, like, looking
down the whole time, andthey're like, are you gonna talk
to us? Because you're, like,worried about making content all
the time.
Yeah.
Yeah. But you're really goodat Instagram, though, speaking of
content.
You think I'm good?
Yeah.
I have an approach that Itake. Yeah.
(15:09):
Do you mind sharing it?
It's kind of like the show. Ithink I take on a factual account.
I try to be factual with myposting on Instagram. I mean, I think
lately I've been becomingmore. Maybe a little more expressive
(15:30):
and more. I give myself morepermission to let my personality
come out a little bit. But Itry to be. I try to take a factual
approach because I think thatthere's humor in being factual. You
know, there's poetry in beingfactual, and I'm interested in that.
(15:51):
I'm interested in not forcinghumor and not forcing poetry. I like
when it sort of naturallyemerges through creating a factual
account of things.
Oh, hey, here's a question.How did you get. How did you become
an artist, anyway?
An artist? Yeah, how did Ibecome an artist? I think I've always
(16:15):
been an artist. I've alwayscommunicated in an alternative manner.
When I was little, when I wasjust being made, when I was just
developing as a person, like,I didn't talk because my parents.
My mom only spoke Spanish. Myfather spoke English and Spanish,
(16:38):
but he only spoke to me inEnglish. My mother only spoke to
me in Spanish. So, I mean, Iimagine that I was confused by having
these two languages. Sosupposedly I didn't talk till I was,
like, five or so.
Interesting.
And then when I startedtalking, like, my mom said that I
would speak both languages toher in Spanish and to him in English
(17:00):
perfectly. So it might haveseemed like I was confused, but I
was actually registering allthis information that I was. That
was being Put into my brain.
Yeah.
That seems overwhelming.
It sounds like that was likewhen people do that with their kids,
I'm like, oh, that's actuallysmart. Because it's so hard to like,
I don't know how many peoplehere like are on duolingo trying
to get our five minutes in.
(17:20):
Yeah.
But like if you're a kid, itseems like so much easier, but the
way that you say it, it seemsreally overwhelming.
Wait, wait, let me clear onething up. They weren't doing it as
a strategy, you know, likethey weren't trying, they weren't
trying to educate me. I thinkthey weren't those kinds of parents
do, you know, like they werejust getting by and they were just
(17:41):
like. I don't think it was amaster plan. Oh yeah.
My friends said, yeah, it's amaster plan. Yeah, it's a plan for
them to like make sure thattheir kids like know this language.
Right? No, no. My, my. So mykids don't speak Spanish because
my wife doesn't speak Spanish.Right. And they get mad at me that
I never taught them Spanish.
Yeah.
But like it would have beentoo much work for me and I, and I,
(18:04):
I don't have that kind of time.
Yeah.
You know, like, so I couldn'tinvest. You have to invest in the
things that you're able to.And I wasn't able to teach them Spanish.
It just would have taken toomuch time and too much effort. Does
that sound lazy? No, no, thatwas a strategic move.
Right. You're like, I don'thave time. Yeah. You just said, I
don't have time for this, soI'm not gonna do it. That's comforting.
(18:27):
As a parent, I would think.
Yeah.
Because it seems likeoverwhelming to be a parent and you
have to teach all this stuff.But it's nice that you could say,
I don't have time, so I'm notgonna do it.
Yeah, you could choose thethings that you teach. There's the
one downfall is that you couldget kids that are resentful towards
you.
(18:47):
You don't have that though, do you?
Yeah, I think it's part of the mix.
It's part of being a parent.It just comes with it.
Yeah. But we're still workingthrough it.
Right.
I see the trauma that I caused.
Uh huh. Dang. Well, you know,when we had first did our recording,
(19:09):
I asked if like your work wasabout family member and you're like,
no. And I listened to a lot ofinterviews of you like to prepare
for this and a lot of peoplewould Ask that, and you would feel
like, no, like you're at onepoint, but, like, not anymore. Like,
it's, like, evolved. Butpeople seem to always remember that
about you.
(19:29):
Well, I think the main thingis I don't like being pigeonhole.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, I. You know,like, I don't like saying, oh. I
don't like when people say,oh, this is that Mexican artist,
or this is that artist whomakes that work about being a parent.
Yeah.
I think it's so much morecomplex than that. So I think that
(19:51):
the work is about a lot ofdifferent things. So that's what
it was. It was more. It's moreme resisting being that person who
makes parent art.
Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't want tobe put in a box either. How dare
they try to put you in.
No, it's a. It's. People dothat because we're all trying to
make sense of things in thisconfusing world.
(20:12):
Mm. Well, do you have afavorite artwork in the show?
Yes. Wait, do I?
Yeah.
I don't have a favorite work,but there's some key works that.
That I think are crucial tothis show. Like, for me, I really
like these two, and I wouldsay that I'm even more drawn to this
(20:36):
one because of the color ofthis fake moss and also this really
nice pink, red plexiglass. ButI think that these I really like,
and I think of them assiblings, you know, I think I like
(20:58):
the arbitrary objects that Iput on the surface and the hope that
those objects create some sortof narrative, some sort of story.
Yeah.
But I don't have a favorite. Iam very. Believe it or not, I'm very
pleased with the show.
(21:19):
Looks really good.
I think the video at our sidehere was really pivotal because this
is also Saoirse, the latterartist. This is Saoirse. We're in
conversation. And I reallylike this work because in the video,
(21:40):
if you ever have time to watchit, we're actually describing what's
happening in the video, what.What the viewer is seeing in a very
factual manner. And I. I thinkthat this work helped me come up
with the concept, with theidea, with the title of the show.
(22:04):
You call Saoirse a ladderartist, but you can't put her in
a box.
Put the box. Yeah. No, no, no.And I was. Yeah, I was just joking.
Yeah, I know. And, you know,one thing I think about with art,
like, when I was coming up,they always are like, oh, art's so
(22:24):
precious. Like, don't touchit, you know? But I feel like with
this Work. You have to touchit. Like, I think even if, like this
in my house, like, I wouldhave to raise this up. Like, I'd
have to touch it so I couldvacuum. Like, so it's like, you have
to. I think it's cool becauseit makes. You have to touch art,
which usually people think youshould not touch it, but. And it's
(22:48):
cool to know that this is fakemoss because at your opening, people
are having a conversation ifit was. If, like, moss, if it lives
on the wood, if it's real ornot real. Like, if it's alive at
that time. And so people areasking if that was alive.
I'm assuming it's fake moss.It might be real. There's like, you
(23:08):
could look up close and itlooks like it's actual moss, but
it's dead moss, if anything.Oh, yeah.
Yeah. People thought it wasalive still.
Like, it's definitely notalive. Which I wouldn't mind if it
was alive, but I don't thinkit is. Yeah. But, yeah, that. That
came later on the hangingstring. This is like. Yeah. One of
(23:33):
my favorite works. One ofthem. Because I have a bunch of them.
One of my favorite works atthe Art Institute of Chicago is the
work by Eva Hesse. That workwhere it's a big. It's a. It's a
big frame that's bandaged up,and then there's this giant metal
hanger that comes. This giantmetal loop. Semi loop that hangs
(23:59):
off the piece.
Yeah.
Like, you could potentially.You could walk through it. And I
have walked through it before.You're not supposed to because you
get yelled at by the guards.But that's what I like so much about
that work, that it sort ofextends off the wall into our space,
almost like a sculpture.
Yeah.
(24:20):
I've never seen that work. Sothat sounds said in the modern wing.
It's in the modern. Modernwing. It's currently up, so I recommend
it, seeing it.
Cool.
For exhibitions, I always likehaving some sort of programming,
some sort of performance, somesort of activation as part of the
show. That's so important tome because to me, objects could be.
(24:43):
They're dead, you know,they're like the moss. They're dead.
For me, like, objects are justdead things. So I like this idea
that the space is alsoactivated. For me, that's important.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like thatabout you. You always are. You're
(25:03):
always doing something with,like, multiple things. Like, often
when you have shows, it seemslike they're like, become mini festivals,
which I like.
Yeah, yeah.
And then do you think, okay,so if. Because I feel like, yeah,
people have art shows andthey'll have like an art talk and
(25:23):
then that will be it. But ifyou were, say, if you're like an
artist that is having a show,what are three things you should
tell them to have to activatetheir space?
But the first thing that Ireally, really like is inviting other
people to activate it, youknow, because I think there's something
(25:46):
nice about having an outsidevoice that responds to your work.
Like, when I respond to thework, you know, I'm responding with
the knowledge, the previousknowledge and history that I have
with the work. But when youbring somebody else in, like, it
becomes interpretive. And I.And I like that. So I would say that
(26:09):
idea of inviting people toactivate your work is always fun.
So that's the first thing. Canyou reiterate the question?
I still know that I wantedsort of like a guide if someone has
an exhibition, like threeprogramming ideas, I guess.
Well, this is a programmingidea, like us talking in front of
(26:31):
the work.
Yeah.
So that's always nice.
Then you said somebody toactivate it.
Something to activate it. Somesort of live discussion that could
also potentially include theaudience. I don't want to say another
one. Like I gave. I gave thetour here, but I think for the last
(26:56):
show that I had here atEngage. Yeah, I fed people. So, like
making food. So I think likesome sort of food situation is nice
and it just wasn't plain oldfood. I actually made a mole sauce
with 50 ingredients that wassourced from a store down the street
here. And I served that saucethat I made on one day. We invited
(27:24):
people to come and eat here.
Okay. Yeah, that's cool.
So I think food is always agood activation.
Hey, interrupting theconversation because we have to take
a break, but we will be right back.
Let's face it, we're all goingto face loss one day. Be it a loved
(27:46):
one, a job, a pet, a home, ora sense of self and security, or
my keys again. But grief isgoing to hit us all someday. Hi,
welcome to Good Grief, apodcast dedicated to demystifying
and destigmatizing grief andloss with compassion and humor. I'm
(28:09):
Nikki. I'm an end of lifedoula and grief coach in Columbus,
Ohio. On this podcast, we willget down and dirty with all things
grief related and hopefullylearn a thing or two about living
with loss and coping withgrief and the grieving. You might
laugh, you might cry, buthopefully you'll just feel a little
less alone. Tune in each weekto learn all about grief, meet some
(28:30):
special guests, and learn thatgrief doesn't always have to suck.
You're listening to WLPN LPChicago, 105.5 FM Lumpin radio. Let's
step back into the space andback into my conversation with Alberto
(28:54):
Aguilar.
You had said that you hadmaybe about two months to have the
show together. And so when youdon't have an exhibition you're preparing
for, then how do you put boundaries?
And. Yeah, I always useboundaries, or what I call a framework,
all the time. Like, Iregularly use it because I feel like
(29:16):
there's something generativeabout using boundaries. And it's
sort of like, you know,counter or like, you know, you would
think that there's somethingcontradictory about it. Right. Like,
because you think ofboundaries or the framework or rules
(29:37):
as debilitating orrestricting. But I see them in the
opposite way. Like, for me,the framework creates a very generative
situation. It makes me verydecisive. I'm very indecisive as
a person. Like, I'm the personwho goes to the. To a restaurant
(30:02):
and I want to mess around. Iwant to play with the waiter. I want
the waiter or the server totell me what to get, you know, like.
Oh, yeah, because like, I seea menu and it's just like I love
going to menu. To restaurantsthat they have very small menus.
Yeah.
Just because it seems moredecisive. But when I go to a restaurant
(30:22):
that has so many options, it'slike I don't know where to begin.
I don't know what to getbecause I want the best experience.
So sometimes I ask the serverto give me that experience. And a
lot, most of the times theyget annoyed.
Yeah.
Because they're not there forthat, you know, like, they're not.
That's. That's outside oftheir job description. Right.
(30:42):
Well, it's not.
It's not. But you could arguethat that it is.
Yeah.
They only get paid so much.Right. But so I'm indecisive.
Yeah.
So, like, I think that when Icreate these rules, that doesn't
exist, you know, like, if I.If I give myself three minutes to
make something, right. Like, Ihave to deliver that thing within
(31:06):
three minutes, and. And it'sfail proof. Right. Like, if I was
making a performance thatlasted, which I do all the time,
which lasted three minutes andmoved within this space, like, if
I know that it's three minuteslong, all I got to do is fill that
(31:29):
time. And it doesn't need tobe good. I just need to fill the
Time.
Yeah. Have you ever not madeyour. Have you, like, said, I need
to make something in threeminutes and then just like, not do
it? Because I feel like Iwould maybe just not do it? It's
so easy to not do it when youset yourself up with the deadline.
No, because even if it's bad,it's still made. Oh, that's true.
(31:50):
Like, I. I'm not saying thatI'm. That I make the perfect three
minute work.
That's true.
Like, I do it all the time,too. Like, I do this thing, for instance,
in the classroom, in my class.I've been doing this for so many
years, where I start the classeven before the students know me.
I put the timer on. On theprojector. I put one of those Google
timers on three minutes. And Ijust start walking around the room
(32:14):
and playing with the things inthe space. You know, the window shades,
the chairs. I flip the chairsupside down. I just start to move
around the space and I messwith the objects within the space.
And sometimes I repeat thosegestures. Like I'll go around the
outside perimeters of thespace and I'll mess around with objects
and then I'll come back andI'll repeat. Which is another one
(32:37):
of my strategies, repetition.When there's repetition, like there's
sort of a rhythm that'screated. So I'll repeat some of my
actions. So. So, no, I mean,it's foolproof. It's not always good,
but it's always made. It isalways made in the end. And that
work exists in people'smemories, so nobody records that
(33:01):
work. So I like that idea too,that it's a work that only exists
in memory.
Yeah, that's good.
The timer goes off when thethree minutes are up. I always make
sure to put the volume on uploud, because then there's that little
ding that happens. Yeah, andthat ding becomes part of the work
too.
I like that. I used to go to agym that had a timer like that for
(33:24):
people that were using a timer.
Yeah.
Yeah. Let's open up for questions.
Hey, Alberto.
Hi, Zach.
Hi. So you, you mentioned thata lot of the objects in these works
are arbitrary, but yet there'ssuch a strong intentionality in the
way that you organize them. SoI guess I'm just curious what the
(33:46):
significance is for you toorganize them in the ways that you
have.
Yeah, I mean, naturally, I'm acomposer of objects. I kind of have
an idea of what works and whatdoesn't work. And even when I don't,
(34:09):
I always Ask people, like,I'll take a picture, and I'll send
a text, and I'll say, what'soff? I do that a lot, actually. I
like getting outside voicesbecause I'm in the middle of it and
I can't see. It's kind of likethe server thing. Right. But I think
(34:29):
naturally, I do know how tocompose things, because I've been
doing it for so long. But evenwith composing things or even with
organizing things, a lot oftimes I use default methods. Like,
I like using size as a way toorganize things and all the different
(34:51):
other possibilities. I mean, Ithink a good example is this sculpture
in front of us, which is ahorse that has a radio attached to
the underbelly. It has, like,a piece of driftwood, and then in
between, and then it has,like, a cat shelf, and it has the
sub speakers and the littleclay at the end held on by rubber
(35:14):
bands. Like, those two things,for instance. I was just looking
for something that could fillthose gaps, and these were the things
that I found in the studio.And I think that the books function
in the same way. Like, theseare the books that fit perfectly
to create the tension withthese bungee cords, to hold the driftwood
(35:35):
on top and to hold the radioon the bottom. So that has to do
more with, like, thatarrangement has to do more with practicality.
You might notice also that thebooks are organized by size. And
although there was a lot ofbooks to choose from, like, I'm also,
of course, my choices aredictated through content. Like, I
(35:58):
thought herbs and spices.That's nice. That's funny. That could
be funny. Like cooking. Whatmaterial is in this work? It referenced
that. There's another book onaquarium fishes, Handbook of Tropical
Aquarium Fishes. And then abook that Madeline brought into the
(36:25):
studio, which is a McMasterbook that is a. What is it? It's
like a book catalog. It's acatalog to order material, right?
Yeah. And I like the boldlettering. I like the color, but
it all fit. It was the rightbooks. I had a lot of books to choose
from, but these are the onesthat aesthetically looked interesting
(36:47):
but also fit within that gapthat was created.
Yeah.
So it's like, in some ways, Ican see it, like, as aesthetic poetics,
but also contextual poetics,because you're balancing context
with form and practicality,and then at the same time, allowing
(37:07):
it to exist for the audiencesubjectively. So, like, how do you.
Sorry to ask another question,but, like, how do you, I guess, accept
all of those within thecontext of one Work. Yeah, if that
makes sense.
Yeah, it's. It is a balance.Do you know, it's like you're trying
(37:32):
to pick things that workpractically. Right. But you also
want to pick things that lookaesthetically interesting, but you
also want to pick things thatcould potentially have deeper meaning
or implication. Yeah. And, Imean, I think one good example over
(37:52):
here, Sonya bought me. Shebrought me these giant stacks of
postcards from her work.
Oh, yeah.
And when I started, I knewthat I wanted to incorporate postcards
into these, but I had so manypostcards to choose from. At a certain
point, I chose thesepostcards, and I had no idea where
(38:16):
they were from or what theywere, but when I looked at the back
of them, they were the AnneFrank house. And, like, for me, that
has a lot of meaning because Iread the Anne Frank diary, and, like,
it just was. It was a veryimpactful thing in my life. So I
(38:36):
was really excited that thatcould come into the work and people
could potentially read meaninginto that. And that's also why I
list, like, for the. You mightnotice that in the placards here.
For me, it's important to listall the material so that people can
(38:58):
create this poetry in theirown heads as they're reading the
material. Like, what do theseobjects mean once they're placed
next to one another? But it'sa balance, for sure. Of all these
things.
I can see, too, Heather,differing levels. Here comes Ryan
within the anecdotes of eachobject that's selected. So, yeah,
(39:23):
I think that gives it morelife, too.
Yeah. And that's. That's themain thing. That's one very important
thing. Like I said, these areall dead objects, right? Like, how
do you. How do you give them alittle bit of life? Do you know?
And I think the biggest partis the viewer's experience. Right.
(39:45):
Like, the viewer bringingtheir own thoughts to it. You know,
Like, I could bring all mythoughts to it, but what truly, for
me, brings them to life iswhen the viewer is here actively
creating meaning within theworks. That's kind of like the programming
(40:06):
that I spoke of here in this space.
I love that you do that.
Well, I try.
Yeah, please.
I think at the opening, the.The postcards of Anne Frank really
set me back, because to me,you know, your work, I've never really
(40:29):
seen it be too political orovertly or very, like, political,
but I think the images, to me,just, like. I don't know, like, set
me back because it was justvery different from you, like, from
the work that I've Seen. So Iliterally came to this talk to hear
about the postcards. So thankyou for talking about them.
(40:50):
But.
Yeah, like, how. How do you.Like, are you okay with that? I mean,
yeah, you're saying that it's.
You're.
You're welcoming people tocome with their own, like, interpretation
and thoughts, but I don't. Didthat come across at any point, like,
political also with thecurrent immigration crisis and. Yeah.
(41:13):
So I don't know if that camethrough to you.
Yeah, I think more thananything, like, maybe even more than
political, I'm interested inthis human connection. And, like,
(41:35):
for me, even in reading thediary, like, there was something
that I related to on a veryhuman level. But. Yes, but, you know,
like, the fact that you'reright, like, I don't make overtly
political work, but that's notto say that I don't. I don't have
(41:59):
my own thoughts, my ownopinions, and I also welcome those
sort of readings to comethrough, and I'm aware that they
do happen. Yeah, I don't knowif that answers that question.
(42:19):
Anybody else? Oh, yeah, goahead. Oh, which way are we going
to go? Yeah, look, this is notactually my.
Original question, but I feellike we should address what is going
on in here.
Yeah, please, the chair.
And if you can explain howthat came to be. We don't have the
(42:41):
sound on for obvious reasonsright now, but there's a.
Sound component, so I think it would.
Be kind of important. Please.
Yeah. Thank you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sothere's a sculpture in the closet,
sort of back storage space inthe gallery. And, you know, like,
(43:02):
I think when I saw thatcloset, like, I knew. And the closet
already had the black curtainsinside of it. So it was. It was a
very. It's a very dramaticspace. And like, for me, the idea
of expanding a space like thisgallery is also very interesting.
(43:25):
You know, the idea of, like.Yeah. Opening up a space that usually
is not meant as part of theexhibition space. So I did make this
sculpture prior to deciding toput it in there, I made a sculpture
that had light in it. It's.And so, like, where do you put this
(43:49):
sculpture that has light in avery lit space? And it just made
sense at a certain point toput it in that closet, to expand
that space, but to also createa more quiet space and a more dramatic
space. And. Yeah, that was thefirst part. The second part was,
(44:10):
like, putting the sound worksin there, which I always knew. I
mean, at a certain. The soundworks. Let me talk about the sound
works. I Was in Phoenix,Arizona, visiting my mom over winter
break. And all my family came.I drove there, but everybody left
(44:33):
separately. Now that we have,like a family with older kids and
different kinds ofresponsibilities, like, everybody
left. So I was left in Phoenixby myself with my mom and Madeline,
my daughter, calls me up andshe says, you should make sound recordings.
(44:53):
My aunt lives with my motherand she has dementia. So Madeline
was like, you should makesound recordings with the Olivia.
And right away, like, I was soexcited about that idea, so I asked
her to come outside in thebackyard in the full sun, and we.
We made like 32 minute, 32minute recordings of me just trying
(45:24):
to conjure her memory and meand, and. And some of them. It sounds
like I'm being mean a littlebit, like I'm teasing. But that's
because she was always my. Sheis my favorite aunt. And like, we've
always had this sort ofplayful banter. We also used to play
with language all the time.Like, she's very much into language.
(45:47):
She's the hoarder person thatI told you about. She was very much
into, like, crossword puzzles.So there's one recording where it
kind of seems like I'm beingmean, but I'm just kind of trying
to be playful and I'm tryingto conjure her memory. And there's
a total of four recordingsthat I chose. And then I asked Madeline
if she would make sound forthe recordings. So they're accompanied
(46:09):
with subtle sound. So I madethose. And initially we were thinking
about making a video. I wasthinking about making a video with
these sound recordings onthem. But there came a certain point
when I was hanging out in thegallery that I just knew that the
sound. It would be interestingto have the sound in that little
(46:30):
closet. Yeah. It's like alittle private listening room.
Yeah.
And yeah, when. When they'reon and when you're in there by them
by yourself, like, I couldimagine that one could really have
a moment in there. I know thatI had a moment in making these and
I still have a moment inlistening to them, but I wanted to
(46:50):
share that moment with people.And the two things have nothing to
do with each other. Right.Like that sculpture and these sound
works. But I'm really much.I'm very much into this idea of collaging
things to, like, puttingthings together that don't. That
don't belong in order tocreate a new meaning or a new read.
Yeah.
So that's what's happening in there.
(47:11):
I like that you were beingplayful with your Honor. I don't
think anybody would think thatthat was bad, you know?
Yeah.
When I had my Aunt Dean,before she passed, she was, like,
in a coma, and I would always,like, make faces at her stuff, but
you would see, like, hermouth, like, sort of smile. And,
you know, my family would belike, get off her. Get away from
her. I'm like, no, she likes it.
(47:32):
Yeah. Yeah. It's trying tobring joy to the situation, to the
moment.
It's sweet. That's, like, onInstagram, they'll have, you know,
emerging singers, like, go andhave performances at senior homes,
and they're in there withtheir outfits on and stuff, and they
love it. So it's good. Yeah,it's good that you did that.
Well, yeah, you. I think youalways have to be careful. Right.
(47:57):
Like, with what you present orwhat you've shown. You have to. You
have to be critical about itand ask if it's going to be read
in the wrong way or if it'sgoing to be offensive.
Right.
Like, I constantly have to do that.
Yeah.
Because I don't want to make something.
You know, that makes anybody angry.
Makes anybody angry. But just.But more than that, makes me come
(48:18):
off as insensitive.
Yeah.
Insensitive or whatever. Aproblematic person.
Yeah. We had a question here. Right.
It's pretty simple. Just. Iwas looking at these Wiffle balls
here. I'm not sure what theyare. They're balls with holes in
them.
Pickleballs.
Oh, they're pickleballs.
Well, they're wiffle balls, but.
(48:39):
But they're pickle forpickleball. Yeah. So it looks like
they're not glued in there andthey're just pushed in there. Is
that. Is that really how you.
Yes.
So if somebody moved this,they, like, they could fall out,
Right.
Okay.
Yeah. Actually, intransporting this work, like, it
(48:59):
fell apart. Not just thepickleballs, either. Like, that whole
metal frame came down.
Oh, no.
Yeah.
So if somebody bought this,then, I mean, and they fell out,
they just had to just pushthem back in.
They could put them back in.
Okay.
Or they could keep them out ifthey want. But, yeah, you know, like,
(49:19):
I think that, like, I. Earlyon in my work, I started to make
these things that were calleddomestic monuments that were just
these objects arranged in myhome or in other people's homes of
their personal belongings. Andone of my big things with these objects
(49:43):
was always that I didn't wantto attach them in a permanent manner.
Like, for me, it was veryimportant that they weren't affixed,
you know, that they weren't.Like, I didn't use screws or glue
or anything. Like they justwere self centered, sustaining, you
know, that they held togetherin a self sustaining.
Alberto, thank you for lettingme do this. Do you have anything
(50:04):
else you think we should talk about?
Do I have anything else?
I feel like I could, you know,talk. I have other questions, but
I won't, you know.
Yeah.
For another time.
We should go out in a certain way.
What do you think we should do?
I don't know. That's. That'sgood. See, because we're so right
now. Certainty and doubt. Ialso like that piece. Do you get
(50:27):
that piece?
Explain it.
Like, there's certainty.
Like it splits through. Yeah.
There's certainty which goesthrough on a diagonal, clearly, and
without tricks. Right. Butthen there's doubt which meets up
at the T of certainty. Andthere's one doubt that's read sort
(50:52):
of left to right, and thenthere's one doubt that is read right
to left. Right.
Yeah.
But I was playing on this ideaof like, there being when. When you're
doubtful. Right. Like. Likeit's. It's hard to read it. It's
hard to. Like there's. There'sa moment of doubt that. That I created
(51:14):
through that text wherecertainty doesn't have that. And
I was just gonna say that,like, right now, I'm presenting you
with a moment of uncertainty.
Yeah.
And like, where we don't knowhow we're gonna close this out or
how we could close this out,but I believe that we could do it
somehow. Like, how do we closethis out in an interesting way? And,
(51:37):
like, we could fail. You know,like, I created a moment where there's
potential for failure.
Yeah.
Are you scared?
Yeah.
So am I. I am too.
But I think, what I think isI'm like, oh, it's like, should give
each other a high five. Imean, but then I think that's not
cool. Like, now it feels likeit really needs to be something.
(52:00):
Like we need to deliver something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's like. You know, Iwas laughing with Sherry. I was like,
she was saying everybodyshould look under their seat for
like, like Oprah moment, youknow, but if you look under there,
it's not going to be anything.
Well, maybe. Maybe that's alead. I also look for leads. You
know, like, you bring up theseats. Maybe the seat is. This is
the. Is the code that tradesheets, like, trade seats. Yeah.
(52:26):
We could trade seats. We couldstart by trading seats.
Okay.
Oh, I'm gonna carry my seat.And I'm gonna.
You're gonna carry it?
Oh, you want to?
I thought, yeah, I can't liftstuff. I'm a lady.
I thought about. I thoughtabout, like, trading spots, but you
meant trading seats. But let'sdo that.
Oh, you want to trade spots?Like, now you ask me a question.
(52:48):
But this is your show.
Yeah, no, I wasn't eventhinking about that. But I could.
Let's do that. Since you bringit up. Since I'm in your seat and
I took on the interviewerseat, maybe that's a good idea. You
crack the code. Like, I askyou a question, and.
Everybody'S like, we came tosee you. We didn't come to hear this
(53:08):
lady.
But I have just the question Iwant to ask you.
Oh, okay.
It involves a grocery store.
Oh, yeah.
I grew up in a grocery store.
Right.
My parents owned a grocerystore that actually kind of looked
like this. There was a frontwindow, and we would see things through
the window. One time I sawsomebody chasing somebody with a
(53:28):
gun out the window. And mydad. My. My dad said, get down, And
I had to get down. This was onCicero Avenue. But I guess my question
to you is, I heard that youwanted to own a grocery store that
was also an art space.
(53:50):
Yeah. You gave me the idea tomake it an art space.
Oh, wait, this was my idea.
Well, I told you I wanted toown a grocery store.
Yeah.
And the grocery store was. Ison where I wanted to be is on 83rd
and Stony Island. It was emptythere, and it would be perfect. But
then in our firstconversation, you put me onto Thomas
(54:11):
Kong, who had a grocery storeand was an artist. And you were like,
yeah, you can also just makeit an art space. And I was like,
that is so smart. Because ifyou think about it, when you leave
a show, what if you have to goto the store, but you're at the store?
You can get your almond milkhere. So then I love that idea. But,
(54:32):
you know, now they made thatthat specific area. Now it's a family
dollar. And I hate thatbecause there's already a dollar
store, like, down the street.And then up the street, it's like,
now all the dollar stores arethere, but it's still a dream.
It's a dream. And it's sort ofat a stand still a little bit.
Yeah. In the city, they makeit hard to, like, get property. They're
(54:54):
like, oh, this property's beenstagnant. It's stagnant by, like,
$100,000. So if you could paythat then you can have the building
for what it's selling for,which is 10,000. It's like, okay.
And then, well, maybe I coulddo little grocery pop ups. Would
that be cool? I don't know howto dip.
(55:14):
Well, I hope it happens.
Thank you.
And let me know.
Thanks for the idea, too. Imean, you really did give me that
idea.
Yeah, I forgot. I forgot thatI gave you that idea. But I. But
let me know if I could supportin any way.
Oh, that's so nice. Yeah.
I feel like YouTubers.
Yeah. Right. Cool. Well, thankyou all so much.
Yeah, thank you.
(55:34):
Oh, high five then.
High five.
Yeah.
Cool.
Thank you, guys. Thank you.
All right, y'all, thanks somuch for hanging out with me this
hour on Nosy AF live on LassinRadio. I am Stephanie. Big thanks
to Alberto Aguilar and engageprojects for their time and generosity,
(55:54):
as well as Ryan Harder, whodid the audio for that conversation.
You can find more aboutAlberto's work@albertoaguilar.org
and catch more episodes ofNosy AF plus the rest of the Lumpin
radio lineup@lumpinradio.comuntil next time, friends, stay nosy.
(56:34):
SA.
Gotta get up, get up Tell thewhole world you will win a winner
Vision of a star with amission in the cause what you doing,
how you doing? What you'redoing and who you are Flex yourself
and press yourself Checkyourself, don't wreck yourself if
you know me then you know thatI be knowing what's up. Hey, Stephanie.
Graham is nosy as WLPNLPChicago 105.5 FM Lumpin radio. Hey,
(00:33):
Chicago, hope you're enjoyingyour afternoon. I'm your host, Stephanie,
and I'll be with you for thehour. Last month I sat down with
artist and educator AlbertoAguilar inside his exhibition A Factual
Account at Engage Projects. Wewere literally surrounded by the
work everyday objects, text,sound and video. And we talked about
(00:56):
meaning, making communicationand just being present with the things
around us. So today we'rerevisiting that space. Think of it
as a little time tour. Comealong and listen with me. Here's
Alberto.
Welcome, Alberto. Thank youfor having me.
Yeah, thank you.
(01:17):
This is very exciting.
You can came to the opening.
Yes, I did.
And I saw you and I said, thisis the person that I would like to
conduct because sometimes theydo interviews with guest interviewers.
And when I saw you, I said,this is the person that I would love
to do an interview with herelive in this space.
(01:40):
Oh, what a dream. Thank you somuch. Well, congratulations on your
exhibition. This is wonderful.A factual account. I think where
I would love to start is lastweekend you had your 12 foot, 10
foot ladder. 10 foot, 10 footladder performance.
Stick to the facts.
Yes. With Saoirse.
(02:02):
Yeah.
Yes. It was a. I keep sayingthe word thrilling performance. You
all were. Can you describe it?
Yeah. This was the seconditeration of this latter performance.
This one was by far moresuccessful because we did rehearsals,
(02:24):
but the latter became. Wedidn't know what it was going to
be about. But I think it endedup becoming, like you said, thrilling.
There's another word. Likethere was an aspect of magic or sleight
of hand to the performance.And then there was one last thing
that I keep saying and Iforgot, but it was thrilling. Like
(02:46):
there was moments of suspense.Yeah, yeah.
And how did that feel?
Acts of daring?
It was definitely daringbecause I feel like I was standing
by Jennifer and you guys woulddo these things where they were pushing
this ladder back and forthwith each other and then they would
like move it about and we wereall just like over there, like, oh,
my God. How did it come about?
(03:09):
How did you get thatperformance? Oh, yeah, that's a Good
question, because it actuallycame about. Saoirse was my student
in a class, and there was aladder that was brought into our
class at a certain point. AndI think Saoirse first started interacting
(03:30):
with the ladder. And wheneverSasha, somebody's doing, like, these
actions, like, I want to alsobe part. So we both started to just,
like, during studio time, wewould just do things on the ladder,
like make. Just do gestures onthe ladder. And I think at a certain
(03:51):
point, we realized that itcould be something. And I was invited
to be in a show, to do aperformance, and it came right in
the moment when this ladder.These ladder actions were happening.
And I said, this should be theperformance. So it happened at Compound
Yellow first.
(04:11):
Why was there a ladder in the classroom?
That's a long story, but Icould try to tell it, really. Okay,
I will tell it because it isimportant. I used to teach nextdoor
to Alex Bradley Cohen, who isa very close friend and past collaborator.
He was excited to be teachingnext door with me, and we thought
(04:34):
that it'd be funny to playpractical jokes on each of our classes.
Oh, okay.
So one time, Alex and I founda ladder out in the hallway, and
we had two doors in thisclassroom. So we came in one door
holding the ladder, and thenwe did a couple rounds. And I think
on the third round, we leftthe ladder in the room and I thought
(04:55):
that I was playing a funnyjoke on the. On the students, like,
creating. I love creatingmoments of confusion because those
are moments for me oflearning. So we left the ladder in
the classroom, opened, andAlex and I walked out. And then I
come back like, I'm notkidding. It was probably like two
minutes later or less. I comeback into the classroom and the students
(05:15):
are all congregated on theladder in a jungle gym. No, they
were doing, like, a parade.Like, they were praying. Oh, yeah.
I think Saoirse was actuallyleading the prayer. So the joke was
on me. Like, they. Like, I wastrying to confuse them. And then
I come in and there's a prayercircle around the ladder.
Wow.
And they got me. They outdidme on that one.
(05:37):
Yeah, they definitely did.Good call. Yeah. It's like, who do
you pray to? What? The ladder.I've never heard that before. It's
something new to me, but yeah.Cool. So you have this exhibition
and how did this come about?You were saying these are. You hadn't
been in the studio in a while.This is like, your first work back
in the studio or something?
(05:58):
Yes, sort of. Yes. Aconcentrated time in the studio,
which is funny, because itwasn't even that much time. It was
probably like two months inthe studio. It came about because
Jennifer had an open slot inthe gallery, and she asked me if
I would take that open slot,because I think Jennifer understands
(06:20):
that I do things. What did wesay on the fly? On the fly.
We wing it.
We wing it. Like, I like doingthings fast. I like the thing that
it produces when you're underpressure and you have to make something.
So I was given this space, andthat's. And I made all of the work
(06:43):
for that time slot. And, yeah,it was two months that I worked on
all this stuff, and it startedwith more sculptural things. I don't
know why. At the beginning, Ithought that it was gonna be a show
of these sculptural objects.But at a certain point, I was like.
I said to myself, what's gonnabe on the walls? Gotta put something
on the walls.
(07:03):
Right.
So I started making hungthings that are kind of like paintings.
Yeah. Because. Yeah, I don'tthink I've seen a lot of sculptural
shows and think about what'son the walls. But, yeah, they don't
put stuff on the walls atsculpture shows.
You got to dress the walls.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, like, by painting it or something.
(07:24):
Well. Oh, you're talking aboutsculpture shows. I don't know. For
me, I thought to make objectsthat would hang on the wall. I think
I, I. I started with thesetwo, and I think I, I. My wife, Sonia,
bought me this. She. She worksat a thrift store, and she bought
(07:44):
me this tile here. She. Shesends me pictures. Do you want this?
And she sent me a box of thistile, and I just said yes. And so
I mounted this stuff on apiece of plywood, and I think that
I got really excited when Iframed it with this blue felt. I
said, these are paintings.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love the choice of the bluefelt because, like, as a photographer,
(08:07):
I'm always thinking aboutdifferent ways to frame things. So
was the blue felt from thethrift store, too?
No. So all this stuff issourced from different places, but
a lot of it comes from mydaughter, Madeline, who works at
UIC in the architecture anddesign department. She just. She's
a hoarder. Oh, kind of. Yeah.So she brings material that they're
(08:30):
just throwing out. So shebrought a bunch of these felt strips,
and she wasn't really doingwith all the anything with all the
stuff that she hoarded becauseshe currently is not working in the
studio. So I was like, I'mgonna use this material.
Right?
Yeah.
You spoke at your tour abouthaving a hoarder mentality. Can you
(08:54):
define that? What do you thinkthat means to you?
Yeah, I would say my fatherwas a hoarder. Like, deep down inside,
he was one of those peoplethat would just collect newspapers
and collect things. And, youknow, probably if it wasn't for my.
My mom, the house would have.Because he has a sister who's actually
(09:14):
in the show also. She's theone that I made the sound recordings
with. She was a hoarder. Like,she had the same sensibility that
my dad had. So she lived inmoments, which is. It's like a farm
town here in Illinois. And shehad this house that was just, you
know. You've seen horror shows.
Oh, yeah. I was sort ofthinking. I was like, would she have
(09:37):
been on the show Hoarders?
She would have been on theshow. Oh, it was very, very bad.
She would build structuresaround herself with magazines and
newspapers, and it was not alivable space. So I think I have
some of that inside of me. Butat a certain point, I had to break
that curse. You know, Like, Iwould be the person that would go
(09:59):
in the alleys and say, look atthat thing. I want it. I want. I
could use that. But, like, Ithink at a certain point, I said
to myself, I don't want thisto be me. I don't want these objects
to overtake me.
Right. And then something elsethat somebody had said, too, last
week was, you know, becausenow these are all works. They're
(10:23):
available for someone to take.Do you have, like, personal. Like,
personal thought to them? Thatmakes sense.
Like personal attachments.
Yeah, personal attachments.
Yeah. No, I'm fine getting ridof all of them. They're all for sale.
And I would be fine if all ofthem were sold off. I would be perfectly
(10:43):
fine with that. And I wouldn'tmiss them either. I mean, I love
going. I love when somebodyowns my work. And then I don't see
it for 10 years, becausethat's more exciting than holding
onto it. Because when you holdonto it, you just. You're too close
to it and you can no longersee it. But when you're away from
it for 10 years, it's like, itspeaks to you. Yeah, it could speak
(11:05):
to you.
And it takes up space, too.
Yeah, it takes up space. I wasa painter also, and I made a lot
of paintings in my life, and Ididn't really sell any of them, so
they ended up in my Mother'sbasement. And that would always.
That would always bring mesadness. Just that these paintings
are just all there, and I haveto babysit them.
(11:30):
I'm sure a lot of painterscould relate to that. Are they still.
Are they still in a basement painting?
No, they're in my studio. Ihave a little loft area.
Oh, okay.
That's a storage area. So allthe sign works.
What do you. What are thenames of these works?
Sign. Oh, sign like objects.
Sign like objects.
(11:51):
Yeah. Everything is likeobjects. So those are sign like objects.
These are painting likeobjects. These are sculpture like
objects. That's a video likeobject. I think maybe not the video
has a title. It's probably theonly thing with an.
Actual title and with the signlike objects. These were their texts
(12:14):
on. Can you describe them?
Yeah, they are aluminum withreflective vinyl. They're actually
the signs that you see out onthe streets. This company that I
worked with to fabricate theseactually make signs for the city
(12:35):
of Chicago. So they'reofficial materials with text that.
It's like. I would. I woulddescribe it as text in visual form.
So the form actually describeswhat's happening in the image. Does
(12:56):
that make sense? Sodismembered is a good example. That's
probably my favorite onebecause. And that one's a pair. Dismembered
Remembered. But I really likedismembered because I don't know
if you could tell, but it's afigure that is missing a foot. Yeah,
I thought that was witty.
I thought it was witty, too,if I was to try this, because you
(13:20):
said that these are text.
Well, I made them as text messages.
Text messages.
Yeah.
If. What's like. If I want totry that. What's like a beginning
word?
I could try to make you giveme a word. You can use any word.
Just give me a nice, simpleword. Or maybe something that reappears
in your text.
Running.
That's a good one. I mean,obviously you could make a figure
(13:43):
in running form, but there'sdifferent things you could do. Like
failing, for instance. Right.Like, that was an easy one. Like,
the G fails to fall within thediagonal. So I don't know. I mean,
sometimes it's about. Youdon't want to be too obvious.
Yeah. I just wonder if, like,have you ever texted anyone back
(14:04):
and they've been waiting?They're like, why is Alberto not
texting me back? And then youget like, something like that.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah. Because I do. I makethem in real time.
Yeah.
So, yeah, the person has towait while I make them Right. Yeah.
But I also make them on notes.
Oh, okay.
(14:24):
Yeah, I make them on notesbecause I don't want the person to
see the little bubbles thatthey're being made. Like, I want
to know. I want them to knowthat they don't have to wait till
these things are made. So I'llmake them on the note app on my phone,
and then I'll copy and pastethem onto the text.
Oh, okay. I do that withInstagram captions. Like writing
notes and then copy paste it.Yeah. It's so much easier.
(14:47):
It's easier. Yeah.
Yeah.
Because sometimes you couldlose that information, too, and you
don't want to do that.
Yeah, well. Or you're, like,someplace and you're, like, looking
down the whole time, andthey're like, are you gonna talk
to us? Because you're, like,worried about making content all
the time.
Yeah.
Yeah. But you're really goodat Instagram, though, speaking of
content.
You think I'm good?
Yeah.
I have an approach that Itake. Yeah.
(15:09):
Do you mind sharing it?
It's kind of like the show. Ithink I take on a factual account.
I try to be factual with myposting on Instagram. I mean, I think
lately I've been becomingmore. Maybe a little more expressive
(15:30):
and more. I give myself morepermission to let my personality
come out a little bit. But Itry to be. I try to take a factual
approach because I think thatthere's humor in being factual. You
know, there's poetry in beingfactual, and I'm interested in that.
(15:51):
I'm interested in not forcinghumor and not forcing poetry. I like
when it sort of naturallyemerges through creating a factual
account of things.
Oh, hey, here's a question.How did you get. How did you become
an artist, anyway?
An artist? Yeah, how did Ibecome an artist? I think I've always
(16:15):
been an artist. I've alwayscommunicated in an alternative manner.
When I was little, when I wasjust being made, when I was just
developing as a person, like,I didn't talk because my parents.
My mom only spoke Spanish. Myfather spoke English and Spanish,
(16:38):
but he only spoke to me inEnglish. My mother only spoke to
me in Spanish. So, I mean, Iimagine that I was confused by having
these two languages. Sosupposedly I didn't talk till I was,
like, five or so.
Interesting.
And then when I startedtalking, like, my mom said that I
would speak both languages toher in Spanish and to him in English
(17:00):
perfectly. So it might haveseemed like I was confused, but I
was actually registering allthis information that I was. That
was being Put into my brain.
Yeah.
That seems overwhelming.
It sounds like that was likewhen people do that with their kids,
I'm like, oh, that's actuallysmart. Because it's so hard to like,
I don't know how many peoplehere like are on duolingo trying
to get our five minutes in.
(17:20):
Yeah.
But like if you're a kid, itseems like so much easier, but the
way that you say it, it seemsreally overwhelming.
Wait, wait, let me clear onething up. They weren't doing it as
a strategy, you know, likethey weren't trying, they weren't
trying to educate me. I thinkthey weren't those kinds of parents
do, you know, like they werejust getting by and they were just
(17:41):
like. I don't think it was amaster plan. Oh yeah.
My friends said, yeah, it's amaster plan. Yeah, it's a plan for
them to like make sure thattheir kids like know this language.
Right? No, no. My, my. So mykids don't speak Spanish because
my wife doesn't speak Spanish.Right. And they get mad at me that
I never taught them Spanish.
Yeah.
But like it would have beentoo much work for me and I, and I,
(18:04):
I don't have that kind of time.
Yeah.
You know, like, so I couldn'tinvest. You have to invest in the
things that you're able to.And I wasn't able to teach them Spanish.
It just would have taken toomuch time and too much effort. Does
that sound lazy? No, no, thatwas a strategic move.
Right. You're like, I don'thave time. Yeah. You just said, I
don't have time for this, soI'm not gonna do it. That's comforting.
(18:27):
As a parent, I would think.
Yeah.
Because it seems likeoverwhelming to be a parent and you
have to teach all this stuff.But it's nice that you could say,
I don't have time, so I'm notgonna do it.
Yeah, you could choose thethings that you teach. There's the
one downfall is that you couldget kids that are resentful towards
you.
(18:47):
You don't have that though, do you?
Yeah, I think it's part of the mix.
It's part of being a parent.It just comes with it.
Yeah. But we're still workingthrough it.
Right.
I see the trauma that I caused.
Uh huh. Dang. Well, you know,when we had first did our recording,
(19:09):
I asked if like your work wasabout family member and you're like,
no. And I listened to a lot ofinterviews of you like to prepare
for this and a lot of peoplewould Ask that, and you would feel
like, no, like you're at onepoint, but, like, not anymore. Like,
it's, like, evolved. Butpeople seem to always remember that
about you.
(19:29):
Well, I think the main thingis I don't like being pigeonhole.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, I. You know,like, I don't like saying, oh. I
don't like when people say,oh, this is that Mexican artist,
or this is that artist whomakes that work about being a parent.
Yeah.
I think it's so much morecomplex than that. So I think that
(19:51):
the work is about a lot ofdifferent things. So that's what
it was. It was more. It's moreme resisting being that person who
makes parent art.
Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't want tobe put in a box either. How dare
they try to put you in.
No, it's a. It's. People dothat because we're all trying to
make sense of things in thisconfusing world.
(20:12):
Mm. Well, do you have afavorite artwork in the show?
Yes. Wait, do I?
Yeah.
I don't have a favorite work,but there's some key works that.
That I think are crucial tothis show. Like, for me, I really
like these two, and I wouldsay that I'm even more drawn to this
(20:36):
one because of the color ofthis fake moss and also this really
nice pink, red plexiglass. ButI think that these I really like,
and I think of them assiblings, you know, I think I like
(20:58):
the arbitrary objects that Iput on the surface and the hope that
those objects create some sortof narrative, some sort of story.
Yeah.
But I don't have a favorite. Iam very. Believe it or not, I'm very
pleased with the show.
(21:19):
Looks really good.
I think the video at our sidehere was really pivotal because this
is also Saoirse, the latterartist. This is Saoirse. We're in
conversation. And I reallylike this work because in the video,
(21:40):
if you ever have time to watchit, we're actually describing what's
happening in the video, what.What the viewer is seeing in a very
factual manner. And I. I thinkthat this work helped me come up
with the concept, with theidea, with the title of the show.
(22:04):
You call Saoirse a ladderartist, but you can't put her in
a box.
Put the box. Yeah. No, no, no.And I was. Yeah, I was just joking.
Yeah, I know. And, you know,one thing I think about with art,
like, when I was coming up,they always are like, oh, art's so
(22:24):
precious. Like, don't touchit, you know? But I feel like with
this Work. You have to touchit. Like, I think even if, like this
in my house, like, I wouldhave to raise this up. Like, I'd
have to touch it so I couldvacuum. Like, so it's like, you have
to. I think it's cool becauseit makes. You have to touch art,
which usually people think youshould not touch it, but. And it's
(22:48):
cool to know that this is fakemoss because at your opening, people
are having a conversation ifit was. If, like, moss, if it lives
on the wood, if it's real ornot real. Like, if it's alive at
that time. And so people areasking if that was alive.
I'm assuming it's fake moss.It might be real. There's like, you
(23:08):
could look up close and itlooks like it's actual moss, but
it's dead moss, if anything.Oh, yeah.
Yeah. People thought it wasalive still.
Like, it's definitely notalive. Which I wouldn't mind if it
was alive, but I don't thinkit is. Yeah. But, yeah, that. That
came later on the hangingstring. This is like. Yeah. One of
(23:33):
my favorite works. One ofthem. Because I have a bunch of them.
One of my favorite works atthe Art Institute of Chicago is the
work by Eva Hesse. That workwhere it's a big. It's a. It's a
big frame that's bandaged up,and then there's this giant metal
hanger that comes. This giantmetal loop. Semi loop that hangs
(23:59):
off the piece.
Yeah.
Like, you could potentially.You could walk through it. And I
have walked through it before.You're not supposed to because you
get yelled at by the guards.But that's what I like so much about
that work, that it sort ofextends off the wall into our space,
almost like a sculpture.
Yeah.
(24:20):
I've never seen that work. Sothat sounds said in the modern wing.
It's in the modern. Modernwing. It's currently up, so I recommend
it, seeing it.
Cool.
For exhibitions, I always likehaving some sort of programming,
some sort of performance, somesort of activation as part of the
show. That's so important tome because to me, objects could be.
(24:43):
They're dead, you know,they're like the moss. They're dead.
For me, like, objects are justdead things. So I like this idea
that the space is alsoactivated. For me, that's important.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like thatabout you. You always are. You're
(25:03):
always doing something with,like, multiple things. Like, often
when you have shows, it seemslike they're like, become mini festivals,
which I like.
Yeah, yeah.
And then do you think, okay,so if. Because I feel like, yeah,
people have art shows andthey'll have like an art talk and
(25:23):
then that will be it. But ifyou were, say, if you're like an
artist that is having a show,what are three things you should
tell them to have to activatetheir space?
But the first thing that Ireally, really like is inviting other
people to activate it, youknow, because I think there's something
(25:46):
nice about having an outsidevoice that responds to your work.
Like, when I respond to thework, you know, I'm responding with
the knowledge, the previousknowledge and history that I have
with the work. But when youbring somebody else in, like, it
becomes interpretive. And I.And I like that. So I would say that
(26:09):
idea of inviting people toactivate your work is always fun.
So that's the first thing. Canyou reiterate the question?
I still know that I wantedsort of like a guide if someone has
an exhibition, like threeprogramming ideas, I guess.
Well, this is a programmingidea, like us talking in front of
(26:31):
the work.
Yeah.
So that's always nice.
Then you said somebody toactivate it.
Something to activate it. Somesort of live discussion that could
also potentially include theaudience. I don't want to say another
one. Like I gave. I gave thetour here, but I think for the last
(26:56):
show that I had here atEngage. Yeah, I fed people. So, like
making food. So I think likesome sort of food situation is nice
and it just wasn't plain oldfood. I actually made a mole sauce
with 50 ingredients that wassourced from a store down the street
here. And I served that saucethat I made on one day. We invited
(27:24):
people to come and eat here.
Okay. Yeah, that's cool.
So I think food is always agood activation.
Hey, interrupting theconversation because we have to take
a break, but we will be right back.
Let's face it, we're all goingto face loss one day. Be it a loved
(27:46):
one, a job, a pet, a home, ora sense of self and security, or
my keys again. But grief isgoing to hit us all someday. Hi,
welcome to Good Grief, apodcast dedicated to demystifying
and destigmatizing grief andloss with compassion and humor. I'm
(28:09):
Nikki. I'm an end of lifedoula and grief coach in Columbus,
Ohio. On this podcast, we willget down and dirty with all things
grief related and hopefullylearn a thing or two about living
with loss and coping withgrief and the grieving. You might
laugh, you might cry, buthopefully you'll just feel a little
less alone. Tune in each weekto learn all about grief, meet some
(28:30):
special guests, and learn thatgrief doesn't always have to suck.
You're listening to WLPN LPChicago, 105.5 FM Lumpin radio. Let's
step back into the space andback into my conversation with Alberto
(28:54):
Aguilar.
You had said that you hadmaybe about two months to have the
show together. And so when youdon't have an exhibition you're preparing
for, then how do you put boundaries?
And. Yeah, I always useboundaries, or what I call a framework,
all the time. Like, Iregularly use it because I feel like
(29:16):
there's something generativeabout using boundaries. And it's
sort of like, you know,counter or like, you know, you would
think that there's somethingcontradictory about it. Right. Like,
because you think ofboundaries or the framework or rules
(29:37):
as debilitating orrestricting. But I see them in the
opposite way. Like, for me,the framework creates a very generative
situation. It makes me verydecisive. I'm very indecisive as
a person. Like, I'm the personwho goes to the. To a restaurant
(30:02):
and I want to mess around. Iwant to play with the waiter. I want
the waiter or the server totell me what to get, you know, like.
Oh, yeah, because like, I seea menu and it's just like I love
going to menu. To restaurantsthat they have very small menus.
Yeah.
Just because it seems moredecisive. But when I go to a restaurant
(30:22):
that has so many options, it'slike I don't know where to begin.
I don't know what to getbecause I want the best experience.
So sometimes I ask the serverto give me that experience. And a
lot, most of the times theyget annoyed.
Yeah.
Because they're not there forthat, you know, like, they're not.
That's. That's outside oftheir job description. Right.
(30:42):
Well, it's not.
It's not. But you could arguethat that it is.
Yeah.
They only get paid so much.Right. But so I'm indecisive.
Yeah.
So, like, I think that when Icreate these rules, that doesn't
exist, you know, like, if I.If I give myself three minutes to
make something, right. Like, Ihave to deliver that thing within
(31:06):
three minutes, and. And it'sfail proof. Right. Like, if I was
making a performance thatlasted, which I do all the time,
which lasted three minutes andmoved within this space, like, if
I know that it's three minuteslong, all I got to do is fill that
(31:29):
time. And it doesn't need tobe good. I just need to fill the
Time.
Yeah. Have you ever not madeyour. Have you, like, said, I need
to make something in threeminutes and then just like, not do
it? Because I feel like Iwould maybe just not do it? It's
so easy to not do it when youset yourself up with the deadline.
No, because even if it's bad,it's still made. Oh, that's true.
(31:50):
Like, I. I'm not saying thatI'm. That I make the perfect three
minute work.
That's true.
Like, I do it all the time,too. Like, I do this thing, for instance,
in the classroom, in my class.I've been doing this for so many
years, where I start the classeven before the students know me.
I put the timer on. On theprojector. I put one of those Google
timers on three minutes. And Ijust start walking around the room
(32:14):
and playing with the things inthe space. You know, the window shades,
the chairs. I flip the chairsupside down. I just start to move
around the space and I messwith the objects within the space.
And sometimes I repeat thosegestures. Like I'll go around the
outside perimeters of thespace and I'll mess around with objects
and then I'll come back andI'll repeat. Which is another one
(32:37):
of my strategies, repetition.When there's repetition, like there's
sort of a rhythm that'screated. So I'll repeat some of my
actions. So. So, no, I mean,it's foolproof. It's not always good,
but it's always made. It isalways made in the end. And that
work exists in people'smemories, so nobody records that
(33:01):
work. So I like that idea too,that it's a work that only exists
in memory.
Yeah, that's good.
The timer goes off when thethree minutes are up. I always make
sure to put the volume on uploud, because then there's that little
ding that happens. Yeah, andthat ding becomes part of the work
too.
I like that. I used to go to agym that had a timer like that for
(33:24):
people that were using a timer.
Yeah.
Yeah. Let's open up for questions.
Hey, Alberto.
Hi, Zach.
Hi. So you, you mentioned thata lot of the objects in these works
are arbitrary, but yet there'ssuch a strong intentionality in the
way that you organize them. SoI guess I'm just curious what the
(33:46):
significance is for you toorganize them in the ways that you
have.
Yeah, I mean, naturally, I'm acomposer of objects. I kind of have
an idea of what works and whatdoesn't work. And even when I don't,
(34:09):
I always Ask people, like,I'll take a picture, and I'll send
a text, and I'll say, what'soff? I do that a lot, actually. I
like getting outside voicesbecause I'm in the middle of it and
I can't see. It's kind of likethe server thing. Right. But I think
(34:29):
naturally, I do know how tocompose things, because I've been
doing it for so long. But evenwith composing things or even with
organizing things, a lot oftimes I use default methods. Like,
I like using size as a way toorganize things and all the different
(34:51):
other possibilities. I mean, Ithink a good example is this sculpture
in front of us, which is ahorse that has a radio attached to
the underbelly. It has, like,a piece of driftwood, and then in
between, and then it has,like, a cat shelf, and it has the
sub speakers and the littleclay at the end held on by rubber
(35:14):
bands. Like, those two things,for instance. I was just looking
for something that could fillthose gaps, and these were the things
that I found in the studio.And I think that the books function
in the same way. Like, theseare the books that fit perfectly
to create the tension withthese bungee cords, to hold the driftwood
(35:35):
on top and to hold the radioon the bottom. So that has to do
more with, like, thatarrangement has to do more with practicality.
You might notice also that thebooks are organized by size. And
although there was a lot ofbooks to choose from, like, I'm also,
of course, my choices aredictated through content. Like, I
(35:58):
thought herbs and spices.That's nice. That's funny. That could
be funny. Like cooking. Whatmaterial is in this work? It referenced
that. There's another book onaquarium fishes, Handbook of Tropical
Aquarium Fishes. And then abook that Madeline brought into the
(36:25):
studio, which is a McMasterbook that is a. What is it? It's
like a book catalog. It's acatalog to order material, right?
Yeah. And I like the boldlettering. I like the color, but
it all fit. It was the rightbooks. I had a lot of books to choose
from, but these are the onesthat aesthetically looked interesting
(36:47):
but also fit within that gapthat was created.
Yeah.
So it's like, in some ways, Ican see it, like, as aesthetic poetics,
but also contextual poetics,because you're balancing context
with form and practicality,and then at the same time, allowing
(37:07):
it to exist for the audiencesubjectively. So, like, how do you.
Sorry to ask another question,but, like, how do you, I guess, accept
all of those within thecontext of one Work. Yeah, if that
makes sense.
Yeah, it's. It is a balance.Do you know, it's like you're trying
(37:32):
to pick things that workpractically. Right. But you also
want to pick things that lookaesthetically interesting, but you
also want to pick things thatcould potentially have deeper meaning
or implication. Yeah. And, Imean, I think one good example over
(37:52):
here, Sonya bought me. Shebrought me these giant stacks of
postcards from her work.
Oh, yeah.
And when I started, I knewthat I wanted to incorporate postcards
into these, but I had so manypostcards to choose from. At a certain
point, I chose thesepostcards, and I had no idea where
(38:16):
they were from or what theywere, but when I looked at the back
of them, they were the AnneFrank house. And, like, for me, that
has a lot of meaning because Iread the Anne Frank diary, and, like,
it just was. It was a veryimpactful thing in my life. So I
(38:36):
was really excited that thatcould come into the work and people
could potentially read meaninginto that. And that's also why I
list, like, for the. You mightnotice that in the placards here.
For me, it's important to listall the material so that people can
(38:58):
create this poetry in theirown heads as they're reading the
material. Like, what do theseobjects mean once they're placed
next to one another? But it'sa balance, for sure. Of all these
things.
I can see, too, Heather,differing levels. Here comes Ryan
within the anecdotes of eachobject that's selected. So, yeah,
(39:23):
I think that gives it morelife, too.
Yeah. And that's. That's themain thing. That's one very important
thing. Like I said, these areall dead objects, right? Like, how
do you. How do you give them alittle bit of life? Do you know?
And I think the biggest partis the viewer's experience. Right.
(39:45):
Like, the viewer bringingtheir own thoughts to it. You know,
Like, I could bring all mythoughts to it, but what truly, for
me, brings them to life iswhen the viewer is here actively
creating meaning within theworks. That's kind of like the programming
(40:06):
that I spoke of here in this space.
I love that you do that.
Well, I try.
Yeah, please.
I think at the opening, the.The postcards of Anne Frank really
set me back, because to me,you know, your work, I've never really
(40:29):
seen it be too political orovertly or very, like, political,
but I think the images, to me,just, like. I don't know, like, set
me back because it was justvery different from you, like, from
the work that I've Seen. So Iliterally came to this talk to hear
about the postcards. So thankyou for talking about them.
(40:50):
But.
Yeah, like, how. How do you.Like, are you okay with that? I mean,
yeah, you're saying that it's.
You're.
You're welcoming people tocome with their own, like, interpretation
and thoughts, but I don't. Didthat come across at any point, like,
political also with thecurrent immigration crisis and. Yeah.
(41:13):
So I don't know if that camethrough to you.
Yeah, I think more thananything, like, maybe even more than
political, I'm interested inthis human connection. And, like,
(41:35):
for me, even in reading thediary, like, there was something
that I related to on a veryhuman level. But. Yes, but, you know,
like, the fact that you'reright, like, I don't make overtly
political work, but that's notto say that I don't. I don't have
(41:59):
my own thoughts, my ownopinions, and I also welcome those
sort of readings to comethrough, and I'm aware that they
do happen. Yeah, I don't knowif that answers that question.
(42:19):
Anybody else? Oh, yeah, goahead. Oh, which way are we going
to go? Yeah, look, this is notactually my.
Original question, but I feellike we should address what is going
on in here.
Yeah, please, the chair.
And if you can explain howthat came to be. We don't have the
(42:41):
sound on for obvious reasonsright now, but there's a.
Sound component, so I think it would.
Be kind of important. Please.
Yeah. Thank you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sothere's a sculpture in the closet,
sort of back storage space inthe gallery. And, you know, like,
(43:02):
I think when I saw thatcloset, like, I knew. And the closet
already had the black curtainsinside of it. So it was. It was a
very. It's a very dramaticspace. And like, for me, the idea
of expanding a space like thisgallery is also very interesting.
(43:25):
You know, the idea of, like.Yeah. Opening up a space that usually
is not meant as part of theexhibition space. So I did make this
sculpture prior to deciding toput it in there, I made a sculpture
that had light in it. It's.And so, like, where do you put this
(43:49):
sculpture that has light in avery lit space? And it just made
sense at a certain point toput it in that closet, to expand
that space, but to also createa more quiet space and a more dramatic
space. And. Yeah, that was thefirst part. The second part was,
(44:10):
like, putting the sound worksin there, which I always knew. I
mean, at a certain. The soundworks. Let me talk about the sound
works. I Was in Phoenix,Arizona, visiting my mom over winter
break. And all my family came.I drove there, but everybody left
(44:33):
separately. Now that we have,like a family with older kids and
different kinds ofresponsibilities, like, everybody
left. So I was left in Phoenixby myself with my mom and Madeline,
my daughter, calls me up andshe says, you should make sound recordings.
(44:53):
My aunt lives with my motherand she has dementia. So Madeline
was like, you should makesound recordings with the Olivia.
And right away, like, I was soexcited about that idea, so I asked
her to come outside in thebackyard in the full sun, and we.
We made like 32 minute, 32minute recordings of me just trying
(45:24):
to conjure her memory and meand, and. And some of them. It sounds
like I'm being mean a littlebit, like I'm teasing. But that's
because she was always my. Sheis my favorite aunt. And like, we've
always had this sort ofplayful banter. We also used to play
with language all the time.Like, she's very much into language.
(45:47):
She's the hoarder person thatI told you about. She was very much
into, like, crossword puzzles.So there's one recording where it
kind of seems like I'm beingmean, but I'm just kind of trying
to be playful and I'm tryingto conjure her memory. And there's
a total of four recordingsthat I chose. And then I asked Madeline
if she would make sound forthe recordings. So they're accompanied
(46:09):
with subtle sound. So I madethose. And initially we were thinking
about making a video. I wasthinking about making a video with
these sound recordings onthem. But there came a certain point
when I was hanging out in thegallery that I just knew that the
sound. It would be interestingto have the sound in that little
(46:30):
closet. Yeah. It's like alittle private listening room.
Yeah.
And yeah, when. When they'reon and when you're in there by them
by yourself, like, I couldimagine that one could really have
a moment in there. I know thatI had a moment in making these and
I still have a moment inlistening to them, but I wanted to
(46:50):
share that moment with people.And the two things have nothing to
do with each other. Right.Like that sculpture and these sound
works. But I'm really much.I'm very much into this idea of collaging
things to, like, puttingthings together that don't. That
don't belong in order tocreate a new meaning or a new read.
Yeah.
So that's what's happening in there.
(47:11):
I like that you were beingplayful with your Honor. I don't
think anybody would think thatthat was bad, you know?
Yeah.
When I had my Aunt Dean,before she passed, she was, like,
in a coma, and I would always,like, make faces at her stuff, but
you would see, like, hermouth, like, sort of smile. And,
you know, my family would belike, get off her. Get away from
her. I'm like, no, she likes it.
(47:32):
Yeah. Yeah. It's trying tobring joy to the situation, to the
moment.
It's sweet. That's, like, onInstagram, they'll have, you know,
emerging singers, like, go andhave performances at senior homes,
and they're in there withtheir outfits on and stuff, and they
love it. So it's good. Yeah,it's good that you did that.
Well, yeah, you. I think youalways have to be careful. Right.
(47:57):
Like, with what you present orwhat you've shown. You have to. You
have to be critical about itand ask if it's going to be read
in the wrong way or if it'sgoing to be offensive.
Right.
Like, I constantly have to do that.
Yeah.
Because I don't want to make something.
You know, that makes anybody angry.
Makes anybody angry. But just.But more than that, makes me come
(48:18):
off as insensitive.
Yeah.
Insensitive or whatever. Aproblematic person.
Yeah. We had a question here. Right.
It's pretty simple. Just. Iwas looking at these Wiffle balls
here. I'm not sure what theyare. They're balls with holes in
them.
Pickleballs.
Oh, they're pickleballs.
Well, they're wiffle balls, but.
(48:39):
But they're pickle forpickleball. Yeah. So it looks like
they're not glued in there andthey're just pushed in there. Is
that. Is that really how you.
Yes.
So if somebody moved this,they, like, they could fall out,
Right.
Okay.
Yeah. Actually, intransporting this work, like, it
(48:59):
fell apart. Not just thepickleballs, either. Like, that whole
metal frame came down.
Oh, no.
Yeah.
So if somebody bought this,then, I mean, and they fell out,
they just had to just pushthem back in.
They could put them back in.
Okay.
Or they could keep them out ifthey want. But, yeah, you know, like,
(49:19):
I think that, like, I. Earlyon in my work, I started to make
these things that were calleddomestic monuments that were just
these objects arranged in myhome or in other people's homes of
their personal belongings. Andone of my big things with these objects
(49:43):
was always that I didn't wantto attach them in a permanent manner.
Like, for me, it was veryimportant that they weren't affixed,
you know, that they weren't.Like, I didn't use screws or glue
or anything. Like they justwere self centered, sustaining, you
know, that they held togetherin a self sustaining.
Alberto, thank you for lettingme do this. Do you have anything
(50:04):
else you think we should talk about?
Do I have anything else?
I feel like I could, you know,talk. I have other questions, but
I won't, you know.
Yeah.
For another time.
We should go out in a certain way.
What do you think we should do?
I don't know. That's. That'sgood. See, because we're so right
now. Certainty and doubt. Ialso like that piece. Do you get
(50:27):
that piece?
Explain it.
Like, there's certainty.
Like it splits through. Yeah.
There's certainty which goesthrough on a diagonal, clearly, and
without tricks. Right. Butthen there's doubt which meets up
at the T of certainty. Andthere's one doubt that's read sort
(50:52):
of left to right, and thenthere's one doubt that is read right
to left. Right.
Yeah.
But I was playing on this ideaof like, there being when. When you're
doubtful. Right. Like. Likeit's. It's hard to read it. It's
hard to. Like there's. There'sa moment of doubt that. That I created
(51:14):
through that text wherecertainty doesn't have that. And
I was just gonna say that,like, right now, I'm presenting you
with a moment of uncertainty.
Yeah.
And like, where we don't knowhow we're gonna close this out or
how we could close this out,but I believe that we could do it
somehow. Like, how do we closethis out in an interesting way? And,
(51:37):
like, we could fail. You know,like, I created a moment where there's
potential for failure.
Yeah.
Are you scared?
Yeah.
So am I. I am too.
But I think, what I think isI'm like, oh, it's like, should give
each other a high five. Imean, but then I think that's not
cool. Like, now it feels likeit really needs to be something.
(52:00):
Like we need to deliver something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's like. You know, Iwas laughing with Sherry. I was like,
she was saying everybodyshould look under their seat for
like, like Oprah moment, youknow, but if you look under there,
it's not going to be anything.
Well, maybe. Maybe that's alead. I also look for leads. You
know, like, you bring up theseats. Maybe the seat is. This is
the. Is the code that tradesheets, like, trade seats. Yeah.
(52:26):
We could trade seats. We couldstart by trading seats.
Okay.
Oh, I'm gonna carry my seat.And I'm gonna.
You're gonna carry it?
Oh, you want to?
I thought, yeah, I can't liftstuff. I'm a lady.
I thought about. I thoughtabout, like, trading spots, but you
meant trading seats. But let'sdo that.
Oh, you want to trade spots?Like, now you ask me a question.
(52:48):
But this is your show.
Yeah, no, I wasn't eventhinking about that. But I could.
Let's do that. Since you bringit up. Since I'm in your seat and
I took on the interviewerseat, maybe that's a good idea. You
crack the code. Like, I askyou a question, and.
Everybody'S like, we came tosee you. We didn't come to hear this
(53:08):
lady.
But I have just the question Iwant to ask you.
Oh, okay.
It involves a grocery store.
Oh, yeah.
I grew up in a grocery store.
Right.
My parents owned a grocerystore that actually kind of looked
like this. There was a frontwindow, and we would see things through
the window. One time I sawsomebody chasing somebody with a
(53:28):
gun out the window. And mydad. My. My dad said, get down, And
I had to get down. This was onCicero Avenue. But I guess my question
to you is, I heard that youwanted to own a grocery store that
was also an art space.
(53:50):
Yeah. You gave me the idea tomake it an art space.
Oh, wait, this was my idea.
Well, I told you I wanted toown a grocery store.
Yeah.
And the grocery store was. Ison where I wanted to be is on 83rd
and Stony Island. It was emptythere, and it would be perfect. But
then in our firstconversation, you put me onto Thomas
(54:11):
Kong, who had a grocery storeand was an artist. And you were like,
yeah, you can also just makeit an art space. And I was like,
that is so smart. Because ifyou think about it, when you leave
a show, what if you have to goto the store, but you're at the store?
You can get your almond milkhere. So then I love that idea. But,
(54:32):
you know, now they made thatthat specific area. Now it's a family
dollar. And I hate thatbecause there's already a dollar
store, like, down the street.And then up the street, it's like,
now all the dollar stores arethere, but it's still a dream.
It's a dream. And it's sort ofat a stand still a little bit.
Yeah. In the city, they makeit hard to, like, get property. They're
(54:54):
like, oh, this property's beenstagnant. It's stagnant by, like,
$100,000. So if you could paythat then you can have the building
for what it's selling for,which is 10,000. It's like, okay.
And then, well, maybe I coulddo little grocery pop ups. Would
that be cool? I don't know howto dip.
(55:14):
Well, I hope it happens.
Thank you.
And let me know.
Thanks for the idea, too. Imean, you really did give me that
idea.
Yeah, I forgot. I forgot thatI gave you that idea. But I. But
let me know if I could supportin any way.
Oh, that's so nice. Yeah.
I feel like YouTubers.
Yeah. Right. Cool. Well, thankyou all so much.
Yeah, thank you.
(55:34):
Oh, high five then.
High five.
Yeah.
Cool.
Thank you, guys. Thank you.
All right, y'all, thanks somuch for hanging out with me this
hour on Nosy AF live on LassinRadio. I am Stephanie. Big thanks
to Alberto Aguilar and engageprojects for their time and generosity,
(55:54):
as well as Ryan Harder, whodid the audio for that conversation.
You can find more aboutAlberto's work@albertoaguilar.org
and catch more episodes ofNosy AF plus the rest of the Lumpin
radio lineup@lumpinradio.comuntil next time, friends, stay nosy.
(56:34):
SA.
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