Art Isn’t Always Easy: Friendship, Parenting & Self-Definition with Kimmy Noonen

Ep # 75: Art Isn’t Always Easy: Friendship, Parenting & Self-Definition with Kimmy Noonen

Recorded Live at Lumpen Radio: May 24, 2025

Summary of the episode

Kimmy Noonen Joined my Live on Lumpen Radio!

This episode is basically two friends—me, Stephanie, and Kimmy Noonan—chatting about all the messy, beautiful stuff that happens when art meets real life. Kimmy opens up about how becoming a mom changed her whole creative vibe and the struggle to stay true to herself while juggling all the expectations that come with being an artist (and a human). We get into the ups and downs of figuring out who you are in the art world, dealing with pressure, and why being kind to yourself is the secret sauce. If you’ve ever wondered how to keep your creativity alive while life keeps throwing curveballs, this one’s for you.

Takeaways:

• In our conversation, we explored the complexities of artistic identity and the struggles inherent in labeling oneself within the creative domain.
• We discussed the significance of accessibility in art and the importance of making it relevant to everyday people, particularly those from diverse backgrounds.
• How parenting impacts one's artistic journey, likening it to a transformative residency that reshapes priorities and creative output.
• We get into the concept of delegated performance art as a means of engaging others in the creative process, highlighting community involvement in art.
• The necessity of archiving conversations about art was stressed, aiming to foster deeper connections and understanding among artists and their audiences.
• Lastly, we acknowledged the tension between artistic integrity and the commercial aspects of art, advocating for a balance that supports both creativity and community engagement.

Chapters:

• 00:21 - Introduction to the Show

• 00:42 - The Journey of an Artist

• 12:20 - The Evolution of Artistic Expression

• 15:40 - The Evolution of My Podcast Journey

• 24:12 - Navigating the Challenges of Being an Artist

• 32:00 - The Importance of Titles in Creativity

• 36:42 - The Impact of Parenthood on Artistic Practice

• 42:32 - Navigating High School Choices in Chicago

• 46:06 - The Pressure of Art and Marketing

• 57:49 - The Nature of Artistic Conversations

About Kimmy:

Kimmy (not Kim) Noonen is a multi-disciplinary artist, podcast creator, and mother. She has spent the last twenty years making art through painting, photography, and interactive installations while also teaching, parenting two children, running a small business, and doing a heckofa lot of therapy. In her work, she re-imagines the potency of overlooked ideas and discarded materials to give form to our invisible inner-landscapes, asking questions about control, interdependence, holistic health and the expansion of identity over time. Kimmy is the creator of Kimmy Not Kim Podcast where she talks to real artists about their process, personhood and purpose and she lives with her husband and kids in the northwest side of Chicago.

Connect with Kimmy

Instagram: @kimmynotkim

Website: https://www.kimmynotkim.com/

Connect & Stay Updated

• Visit my website (Art, Projects & More)
• Follow on Instagram (@stephaniegraham)

Episode Transcript

(00:07):
Gotta get up, get up tell thewhole world you a winner, winner
vision of a star with amission in the cause what you doing,
how you doing, what you doingand who you are Flex yourself and
press yourself Check yourself,don't work yourself if you know me
then you know that I beknowing what's up. Hey, Stephanie
Graham is nosy as WLPNLPChicago 105.5 FM lumpen radio. Welcome,

(00:32):
you guys. Happy Memorial Dayweekend. It is your host, Stephanie
Graham, and I'm so happy to beback here with you today with the
one and only Kimmy Noonan.Kimmy, welcome.
Glad to be here.
Yes. I'm so happy that you arehere. Thank you for being here. You
know, one of the things that Ijust love about you, Kimmy, is that

(00:54):
you also have a podcast and.Yeah. What. What made you. Let's
just get right into it. Whatmade you start? Or you know what.
Or should I say you guys,Kimmy is an artist.
Start at the beginning. It's agood place to start.
Yes, Kimmy's an artist. Youknow. Is your work collage based?

(01:19):
Cause I always thought it waslike painting.
No. Yeah, no painting. I feellike I can't call. I don't call myself
a collage artist withoutfeeling like a poser.
Okay.
That's just something I dowhen I'm with my kids, hanging out
kind of for fun, but, youknow, but whatever. What do we. All
these titles, they're all ridiculous.
Yeah. Really?
We all do all the things.Yeah. So undergrad, I did painting.

(01:41):
Okay.
And. And then I had anexistential crisis where I wasn't
sure if painting had a purposein the world or if it was just a
part of this big money market.And I was like, you know, in my 20s,
and then I went to gradschool, University of Chicago. Shout
out, Shout out. And I didmostly time based medium performance,

(02:02):
like delegated performance,things like that.
Ooh, what's delegated performance?
Yeah, it's a phrase that oneof my professors, Tanya Briguera,
who's a Cuban artist, shecoined it. As far as I know, maybe
she didn't, but she did forme. But it basically is like creating
a set of boundaries in a spaceand asking other people to do something

(02:26):
within those boundaries,giving them instruction. So I'm not
the performer. I'm not doingthe odd awkward performance thing,
but I'm asking other people todo it. I'm delegating this to them.
Oh, this is amazing. Yeah. Soshe did really amazing political
pieces using this sort ofTechnique and the viewers got to
experience it, but kind oflike hiring actors or hiring people.

(02:49):
So I started that in gradschool. Was very helpful for me to
think about things outside thebox a little bit. I also lived in
Logan Square and commuted toHyde park every day on the train
and didn't have a car. So Iwent from painting like six foot
paintings to I need to be ableto take my work with me on a train.
So I was like computer, USBdrive and sketchbooks and that's

(03:13):
it. And. And then after I gotout of school and, you know, emotionally
recovered from grad school,which took like 10 years, you know,
it's hard. And then I got astudio again. I found myself going
back into painting.
Okay.
So it was kind of this fullcircle moment. So I'm kind of painting
more now, but I do a lot ofsocial practice and, you know, trying

(03:34):
to, I don't know, make artrelevant to people, you know. Cause
art's kind of. Sometimes it'sjust stuck away in a museum or in
a gallery and most folks don'tknow what to do with that. And I
grew up, grew up as like ablue collar kid and I didn't go to
those places as a kid. AndI've got a lot of family that still
don't. So I'm always in thiskind of tension of figuring out,
like, how do I make workthat's accessible, that's relevant,

(03:57):
but also still reallychallenges complex ideas and highlights
the stuff that we're goingthrough. So, you know, I just use
a lot of different mediums.
Yeah, I like that. Yeah,everybody always uses a lot of different
mediums. People are alwaystrying to make folks just do one
thing. But then as I progressmore in my career, it's like, that
is actually not true. It'sprobably easier if you're like a
coach, to coach somebody onone thing, but nobody does that.

(04:20):
That's true. And it's easierto say, I am a fill in the blank.
I'm also a photographer. Like,there's no, like. And I hate that
feeling of not being able toput myself into a box that's convenient
for Instagram or whatever,because that looks good, but it doesn't.
I don't know, maybe my braindoesn't work that way or something.
But yeah, I'm really intriguedby a delegated performance. I'm gonna

(04:40):
look that up later. It makesme think of when you say Instagram,
like the prank, the kids thatare always doing pranks, like, that's.
Could that be like a form ofdelegated performance, where they're
like, making people do stuff.
Probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah.And that was always something for
me that was hard. Cause I waslike, I'm not. I couldn't view myself
as a performance artistbecause I was like, I'm not confrontational

(05:01):
enough to want to, like, freakpeople out, you know, like out in
public. And they're just like,oh, I don't know what's happening
here. And I feel superuncomfortable. And some performance
artists, Artists live for thatstuff. But I was like, I'm Midwestern
and I'm kind of friendly and Idon't want to scare people. But a
delegated performance wasinteresting because there I could

(05:23):
create rules around it. And itwas like, this is an art space. You
know, this is an art space.You're coming to see art. Yeah, but
it's unusual art. So, like, doyou want an example of, like. So
my. In my thesis project atUniversity of Chicago, I. I had art,
quote, unquote, air quotes upon the walls. I had made stuff that

(05:44):
people could look at. And Ihad a solo show. And people knew
they were coming to an artgallery to see art. But in the corner,
kind of the real project wasthat I had hired a court reporter,
a stenographer. So like thosepeople that type really fast, you
know, with limited number ofbuttons. And I had to go all the
way to Indiana to find astenographer that actually still

(06:06):
had, like, analog machine.Cause it had gone very digital since
then. And this was back in2009, even. So I found this young
woman, and she hauled hermachine up to Hyde Park. She sat
in the middle of the side ofthe gallery, kind of off to the side.
And I gave her theinstructions. I was like, you need
to record everything that issaid in this gallery for the next

(06:28):
three hours. And obviously Iknow, and she knows that's impossible
because it's a pretty biggallery. It's echoey. There's going
to be lots of people in it.So. So she's sitting there trying
to fulfill the thing that I'mpaying her to do desperately. And,
you know, poor thing, shelooked like she was on the struggle
bus. She was like, you know,sweating and like, reaching for,

(06:49):
like, who's saying that? Whatare they saying over there? And every
10 minutes, this paper rollwould grow off of the machine with
this code on it that youcouldn't understand. Every 10 minutes,
one of my classmates would ripoff the paper and just hang it on
the wall next to her.
And.
And over the course of thosethree Hours. This wall went from

(07:09):
empty to this, like, grown,huge sort of rainbow paper installation,
sort of full of code that noone knew how to translate.
And stenographers have a code, right?
It's all, like, sort of reallybasic symbols. Yeah. It's kind of
sound based. So, you know, thewoman is, like, dead on her feet

(07:31):
at the end of it. She's like,don't ever ask me.
I know.
I was like, don't ever. No, Idon't like. But then. But the people
who were there, who were thereto, you know, look at art, actually,
the sound of their voices, thesound of them thinking about the
work, talking to each other,socializing, became the crown piece
of the show. And they didn'teven know that was gonna happen.

(07:55):
So then sort of this idea thatthey became the art, but it's this
invisible force that. Thesounds that they're making, but it's
also this disjointedconglomeration of wild sounds. It's
not like a podcast where wejust talk one at a time, you know?
Yeah.
And then I asked thestenographer to retranslate those
back into English for me, andshe sent me that digitally. And then,

(08:18):
like, a couple months later,we had another group show as a class
in the same gallery. So I hada microphone and a screen, and I
had transferred thesetranslations into basically, like,
small poems.
Okay.
As she had written them. Andthey're chaos. It was just wild and
wacky, like, disjointed stuff,and ask the people to reanimate them

(08:41):
into a microphone. Sobasically, like, put this thing that
we collected that wasinvisible back into its invisible
landscape.
Oh, cool.
But it's been jostled andrearranged in the way that humans
rearrange things just by living.
Yeah.
So that's an example. That wasone of. That was at the very end
of grad school. I was like,oh, I learned something finally.

(09:05):
It went all the way into my brain.
But that sounds like a coolproject. Would you show that again
or would you?
Yeah, that's a good question.I would love to show that again,
actually. You know, I neverthink about that. I always live in
the. In the present, movingtoward the future. When something's
happened, I'm like, well, washoff my hands with that. And it was
fun.
Yes.
But there's so much to befound in redoing things and learning

(09:27):
from them a second time orsomething. Yeah.
Yeah. I love it. I feel likein my own work, I'm always bad at
that, too. Like, I'm alwaysMoving forward on the next thing.
But then I had a studio visit,and they were like, no, no, no. Show
that work. And so I had thisone project, Golden Kids, that I
showed at Boundary, and my dadwas like, that's old. He's like,

(09:51):
you still showing this? Like,you did that years ago. And I'm like,
see?
Yeah. There's, like, a voiceinside our heads that's like, well,
if you're showing old stuff,it means you're not making new stuff.
Yeah.
As though somehow the oldstuff isn't still relevant or can'
re, you know, valid again innew times, you know? I know.
It's like, show the stuff allthe time forever.

(10:13):
And we made it. Just keep.Don't put it in the closet.
Right.
I'm literally pulling stuffout of my closet right now. I'm like,
spring cleaning mode. And I'mjust like, oh, it's fun to look at
how far I've come and how. Notfar. Like, oh, this piece is similar
to the piece I'm making rightnow. I'm still the same person.
Yeah.
But, yeah, I can't hold ontothis stuff forever.
That's also like, when peopleask you to put dates on work. And

(10:36):
it's like, I don't like to dothat anymore. I had another studio
visit where a lady's like, oh,this is, like, older works. And I'm
like, yes, But I'm showing itto you because you like portraits.
So I'm showing you, like,portraits. All the portraits that
I have.
Yeah, that's a good point.
So I'm like, you know what?Next time, I'm not gonna put. I'm
not putting dates on there.She would only know that because

(10:56):
I had the dates on there.
Yeah.
I didn't like that.
So I'm like, I might stopdoing that too. I feel that way about
my older work. I look at itand go, oh, I made that in 2022.
Bu. Like, that wasn't thatlong ago. But that's psychologically.
Yeah. That can be a good tool.I like that.
I'm like, don't. I was like,if I wouldn't have put that there,

(11:16):
she wouldn't even comment iton. Now she thinks I haven't been
doing anything, and I have.
Why do we always have to provethat we're working?
Yeah, it's a hustle. I don'tlike that.
I don't either.
How do we stop it?
I don't know. I think we haveto stop it. Yeah, we have to.
Just, like, right now.
But it is Helpful to haveother people that agree.
Yes.
Because if there's just oneperson out there being like, blah,

(11:39):
blah, blah, then you feel likeyou're the lone weirdo, and it's
just a system that works foreveryone else. But if more than one
person's like, no, this iscrazy, Then you're like, yeah. Oh,
yeah. Maybe we should all stopdoing this. I'm empowered.
And also, like folks witholder work. It's like, some of this.
A lot of people's work Ihaven't seen. Like, I've never seen
your photography or this artproject, so it would be new to me,

(11:59):
the work you're exploring.
I like that. Let's do it.
All right.
It's a movement right now.
Listeners.
Stop. Charlie, stop puttingdates on your stuff.
Yeah, well, you know, so youhave been working. You've been working
on your podcast, and, youknow, I'm a part of this other, like,
podcast collective calledFeminist Podcasters Collective. And

(12:22):
they. And I've been, like,trying. I've been, like, a part of
podcasting, right. Like,getting in the podcasting world.
And it made me think, like,oh, I should start an artist with
podcast collective, becausethere's a bunch of artists with podcasts.
It's a popular thing to do.It's a little. It makes me feel sad
how popular it is because Ijust jumped on the ship, but I'm
just not gonna think aboutthat. It's fine. We need more good

(12:44):
content out there.
Yeah. What made you start your podcast?
Yeah, that's a good question.So the very far backstory is that
I have this amazing husbandwho is a gift giver, and he gets
me gifts, like, years before Iactually want them. But he knows
me so well that he sees thetrajectory of where I'm going, and

(13:05):
he's like, I have a feelingyou're gonna need some really good
mics and some sound balancingtools for your future.
Wow.
I know. And so he gives methese gifts, and I'm like, thanks,
babe. I don't need this orwant this, but okay. And then I just
have it. And then because heknows me, he's like, oh, those wheels

(13:28):
are gonna start turning. I seeher, she wants to talk, she's got
things to say. So he's like mynumber one encourager, advocate,
you know, person who's on myback, just pushing me forward a little
bit when I don't want to go.But then, you know, over a couple
years of having these mics,not doing anything with them, you
know, I was just growing. Iwas like, I just, I'm an external

(13:48):
processor. I'm sitting in astudio by myself.
Yeah.
Trying to convince myself thatI'm an artist. And I'm not doing
a great job at it because I'mjust like, constantly in an existential
crisis forever. And, you know,I have two kids, so I had this big
chunk of 10 years where I wasmaking very little work because I

(14:09):
was the primary, like, stay athome parent with them. And that's.
That. That gets in your head.That's a trip, you know, because
you're like, well, if I'm notmaking, if I'm not selling, if I'm
not, fill in the blank. Am Ian artist or do I have anything to
say? Do I have anything toshare? Is my brain mush? And at some
point, finally got enoughtraction. My kids were a little older.

(14:31):
I had. My studio was workingagain. But I couldn't get my ideas
to connect in my brain becauseI was like, what, am I gonna stand
in my studio and talk outloud, like, to myself, like, what?
Like, it's just so strange.And also, even if I did do that,
I wasn't. There was no way togo back and find out what those ideas

(14:52):
were after. I'm just speakingthem into the air. And so I decided
to just like, I'll record it.We'll see what happens. I'll just
record it. And it was like ashower idea, you know, like empowered
in the shower and just decidedto turn on the mics and see how they
worked and start talking intothem about my ideas and my, you know,

(15:13):
the behind the scenes stuff ofwhat I was struggling with. And then
I had beautiful friends whowere like, hey, I love what you're
doing. Your voice is so greatand you've got such things to say.
Your words are the greatest.And I was like, I love you. And then
they said, can I come on?Like, well, sure you want to? So
then they came to my studioand we talked about what was behind

(15:36):
our art, both of our artpractices together, kind of like
we're doing right now, veryorganic. And I found out I just loved
it. I was like, oh, it givesme external processing. It gives
me encouragement.
Yeah.
I connect with other artistsand other people who are amazing
and they have the opportunityto stay connected to each other and
we build a better, morethriving arts ecosystem.

(15:59):
Yeah.
In one of a million ways that,you know, we're trying to do that
as a community. And so that'show it started. And I'm still doing
it.
Yeah, that's. That's reallycool. And I'm sort of like your husband
just being like, buying you mics.
He's great.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
Where did he think of that, doyou know? Like, he's just like, you
know what? I'm gonna give mesome mics.

(16:21):
Kind of. I mean, his lovelanguage is so much gifts, which
I fail. I have failed at for,like, the almost 20 years we've been
married. Just the poor thingnever gets a good gift for me. Cause
I'm so bad at it. But he,like, just think so much, like, what
does she love and what doesshe need? That's really nice. Yeah.
So he's done that many times.

(16:42):
He gave me wasabi seasoning.Remember that?
Yes.
Yes. That was so great.
He is a gift giver. It meanshe loves you.
Yes. That was so nice. I'mlike. I'm like, making salmon. Like,
you know what? Put the wasabiseasoning on here. Yes. Oh, my goodness.
So, like, do you consider yourpodcast, like, in your work as a

(17:06):
part of your work, or is itlike a brainstorming for yourself
or how do you see it?
That's a good question. Ithink it oscillates from day to day.
If I'm in my best mind, mostconfident self, it's totally a part
of my practice.
Yeah.
Those boxes that you have tolive in, that's just. There's such

(17:29):
a deep. Maybe we learned it inschool or I don't know what. But
when I get into those boxes,then I'm like, no, the podcast is
a different thing, and Ishould have a different website or
a different Instagram account.And it starts becoming this, like,
marketing thing. And I'm like,how do I get more listeners? And,
yeah, and then I step back andbe like, what? What am I doing? I

(17:52):
have a very small amount oftime in my day in, you know, big
picture too, like, limitedtime. Is this actually part of my
practice? Like, does this echoall the other things that I'm trying
to do? And sometimes it's niceto step back and be like, accidentally
discover that it is a part ofyour practice, you know? Cause it's

(18:13):
like, it comes out of us. It'salways all this different stuff that
comes out of one person. Theconnection point is the person. So
if I love it and it's bringingme life and I'm finding it creative,
then it probably is connectedto the rest of it. But then my assignment
to myself is I sit down andfigure out how is it connected if
it's a part of my practice.Which I'll just fake it till I make

(18:36):
it and say, yes, it is. Thenhow. So then, you know, with me,
I look back and like, oh,yeah. I have been trying to turn
invisible things intosomething tangible and emotive my
entire art career. So soundvoice communication with other people

(18:57):
is an incredibly real, tactileform of invisible, meaningful things
that we can't see, but we feel.
Yeah.
So if I use that as a medium,then it makes me feel better that
all this time I'm putting intothe podcast isn't taking away time
for my practice. It is a partof my practice.
Okay.
You know, and. But it feelsdifferent because I'm not pushing

(19:20):
paint or, I don't know,building stuff, so. But it is. Yes,
it is. It is.
Yeah, it does feel different.I wrestle with the same things, thinking
like, oh, is this a business?Like, when I'm at, you know, collective
meetings or I go to, like, atrade show, I'm like, why am I here?

(19:44):
Like, am I balancing it with,like, should I be at this podcast
conference? Or should I go toa photography conference or artist
conference? Or, you know, butthen it's like, well, this also needs
to be good. You know, like,there's a skill set to that as well.
Like, you want to put ittogether and. Because, you know,

(20:06):
having conversations withpeople. One of the things that I
was really interested in withstarting my show was also as a way
to, like, archive folkstalking about their work, because
I would always. I love tolisten to artists speak about their
work. And, you know, I mightlook up, you know, Kimi Noonan and
not see anything. Even thoughI've been to your work, even I might

(20:28):
have been to your show, Imight not be able to hear how you
speak. But now there is gonnabe a way, like, through your own
show, but also, like, throughmine. So it's like, I'm always looking
for, you know, where I'mtalking to people, and it's like,
no, you actually. I do need tohave these skills because there's
people who might not havepodcasts or microphones, you know,

(20:50):
and you have to bring folks inthrough, you know, teaching them
how to work with the equipmentand work with the mic and get a good
recording. So it's like, no,no, no. I do actually need time.
It's. Yeah, there's a craft.There's a craftsmanship to any kind
of thing we create. And I do.I spend a lot of time on my show

(21:11):
because I want it to be good.And I feel like that's also consistent
with how I feel about all theother forms I do. I'm like, I'm not
so satisfied with only knowing2 inches of how to do something.
I want to know how to do it.
Yeah.
But I also learn on the job,always, like, you know, I'm like,
oh, I want to make pottery. Idon't know how to do that. And, you
know, then you start makingpottery all the time. You know, whatever.

(21:31):
That's not an ex. That's an example.
Right.
I'm not making pottery. Don'tneed to start yet.
Yeah. But I feel like even tosomebody listening, I feel like they
can relate, where if you'redoing something and you're like,
this isn't what I want tonecessarily be known for or, you
know, focused on. I rather,you know, this work, just figuring

(21:55):
out that balance because Ihave folks, you know, say, oh, Stephanie,
you're working so hard. I'mlike, I'm not. I haven't made, like,
any real images. You know,I'm, like, playing with these ideas.
But I have been putting outshows or coming here. So, yeah, I
guess it is work, but itmesses with my mind a little bit.
Maybe it's also kind of anartist thing. Like, I feel like we

(22:18):
as artists are always, like,everything we do needs to represent
us.
Yeah.
But, like, my husband goes to,like, an office job, and he works
for a company making stuffthey want him to make, and he's like,
I mean, I don't. This doesn'trepresent me. I'm getting a paycheck
for it. So there's just atotally different mentality that
I think artists have. And I'mletting myself kind of like, maybe,

(22:40):
you know, maybe I can havelots of skills and I don't have to
be. It's not a brand, youknow, like, everything I do doesn't
have to represent me in every way.
Yeah.
Even though it kind of does.But, yeah, like, I found myself becoming.
I'm an editor now. Like, Iedit my shows before. I had a photography
business for eight years, andI spent most of the time not taking

(23:02):
pictures, editing pictures.
Yeah.
And I would always be like,why do I get myself into these situations?
It's so boring. Why do Ialways edit? But then I realized
I was like, you know what?Maybe I am good at this.
Yeah.
Maybe it's important. Maybeeven making art requires editing.
Yeah.
You know, you have toconstantly, like, pull stuff out
and rearrange and figure outwho your audience is and how to communicate

(23:27):
with them. And that's kind ofpart of the job. But it's not, you
know, it's a little bit moresexy when it's like, you know, I'm
gonna make this for a galleryand it's gonna have my name on it.
You know, being an artist is sexy.
It really wants to be.
Until it's like paperwork time.
Yeah.
The admin stuff, I don't likethat. No, I don't like. I do not

(23:47):
like that at all. I do notlike the marketing stuff at all.
I do not like it at all.
Yeah, that's another thing Ilike. If I was to list what do I
actually do with my actualtime as a job resume thing, I'd have
to put like marketing. I'd putentrepreneur on there, which. That
sounds like a word that makesno sense for me.
Yeah, like we're tech bros orsomething, but.

(24:08):
Exactly. But I'm like. But Ikeep starting businesses. If you
look at it in the traditionalsense of the word, like, even being
an artist is a business.
Yes, it is.
You gotta make money, yougotta pay sales tax, you gotta, you
know, blah, blah, blah, blah.I think all artists should probably
have a minor in business.
Oh, by default.

(24:29):
I didn't. I had to learn itthe hard way. But why don't they
teach us how to do taxes? Iknow, like why.
I know they need to. But youknow what? Even though I've always
had that advice, like, makesure you take business classes at
the community college, get anassociate's degree in IT and all
that. But I'm like, that doesnot sound fun.
It doesn't.

(24:49):
Nobody teaches a class.
How do you stay awake duringthose classes? I know enough to learn
how to do it. Maybe we're justlearn on the job people. Maybe that's
part of the identity of anartist, is you just. You learn how
to do it while you're doing it.
Right.
You know, you stay awakebecause you're doing it and you're
panicked about doing itpoorly. Like, my taxes will be beautiful.

(25:12):
I know. Yeah. Like I'll havelike pretty flower or pretty folders
and all of that. Yeah. I justhave an accountant.
Oh, that's smart. Yeah, I know.
Well, I had did taxes onetime, but the person I would go to,
they sort of messed them up.And then with my, like with the film
jobs and all that, it's alwayslike a 1099, you know, W2. Like,

(25:35):
it's all this different stuff.So I'm like, I'm afraid of this.
It's so scary.
It is scary. And the last taxperson said that I was in school.
And so I was getting all thismoney back until the IRS was like,
hey, we don't have your school.
You're not in.
And I'm like, what schoolschedule? And so I had to pay all
this money back.
No.

(25:55):
And so now I'm like, you knowwhat? I don't care how much it's
gonna cost. I just need toget, like, a legit person. But I
would love to know what she's doing.
Yeah.
I should ask her if I couldsit in.
But she would be like, no, no,you're paying me to do this.
I know. She's like, I am not ateacher. This is my job. Get out
of here. Pay me and just getout of here.
Yeah, no, that's scary.
Yeah.

(26:17):
I never feel less like anadult than when I'm dealing with
taxes, man.
For real.
Am I still 16 should like mydad? Then I call my husband, and
I'm like, oh, I still am a kid.
Oh, yeah. Forever kid.Especially with taxes. I cannot.
It's so tough. It's so tough.But they make it seem so easy.

(26:38):
Yeah, it is not.
No, I think that.
But I do really like thepodcast. I feel like I'm giving it
a hard rap. I like the podcast.
Yeah, no, of course.
It's beautiful and fun.
Yes, it is.
And at the end of the day, Iwant to be around people as much
as possible, talking about art.
Yeah.
So it's worth all the other stuff.

(26:59):
You know, I love to talk aboutart all the time. It becomes. I was
going to. There would be thesestudio visits. Like an open studio
visit. Right. Like a curatorwould come in and you would share
your artwork, and they wouldgo around, and I felt like I was
at the NBA game. I would justsit there with my drink and just
listen to them critique theseart. And I'm like, yeah, that's right.

(27:21):
I'm like, you don't get therework at all. Come on, man.
You know, the feeling of thatkind of gives me hives, though, a
little bit.
Oh, my gosh. Well, you know,let's see. We have to take a break,
and we will be right back.

(27:42):
Hello, my name is KimmyNoonan. I'm a visual artist and mother
based in Chicago, Illinois.And I'm also the host of Kimmy Natkim
podcast. For the last 20years, I've been an artist. It's
an interesting career becauseit's a business, an identity, and
kind of hard to explain tofolks. Despite art being all around

(28:02):
us all the time, I'vediscovered that most People have
trouble knowing how toapproach art and how to talk to artists
about their ideas. So onkiminatkam podcast, I lead us into
the lives of living artists aswe talk about what they're doing,
how they're doing it, and whyit matters. Are you an artist looking
for encouragement and ideas?Have you ever gone to an art museum

(28:24):
and felt secret shame aboutnot getting it? Do you want to get
more comfortable talking aboutbig ideas in approachable ways? I
know I want all of thesethings and more, which is why I started
this podcast. I really hopeyou'll join me. You can stream Kimmy
Not Kim podcast on allplatforms and follow [e-mail]

(28:47):
and on Instagram immynotkim.See you soon.
WLPNLPChicago 105.5 FM LumpinRadio. This is nosy AF and we are
here with Kimmy Noonan.
You can also call meKiminatkim, which is like, oh, yes,

(29:08):
my sort of accidental brand.Speaking of how, we don't want to
have brands, but I do haveone, so that's a funny story.
Okay.
It's a real quick. It's justbasically, you know, my real name's
Kimberly. Sure. But I wasKimmy since the day I was brought
home from the hospital. It wasjust what they called me. And then
I get to like 8, 9 years oldmaybe, and they're like, well, you

(29:30):
know what, sweetie? That'sjust a baby name now. So you're gonna
wanna start going by somethingelse, Kim or Kimberly. And I was
like, I'm sorry, what? Like,how do you get to just change my
name like that? So then I wentthrough a phase where I tried out
Kimberly and I tried out Kim.And I was just like, I don't like
these. These don't fit me. Nooffense to the Kim's and Kimberlys

(29:51):
in the world. I have manyfriends who are wonderful people,
but it's not my name, youknow? And so I came to my parents
and I did a wholepresentation. I was like, okay, from
now on, you're gonna call meKimmy. This is my name. And they
all were like, oh, ha ha ha haha. You know, so cute little button.
And I was like, whatever.Like, you know, that personality
type. It's like, tell me Ican't and I'll show you.

(30:13):
Yeah.
So then I was like, my goal inlife is to be Grandma Kimmy. And
you're all gonna rue the daythat you didn't think I was gonna
follow through on this. SoI've you know, I've been this adult
named Kimmy now for all theseyears and every time I introduce
myself at a party or at a, youknow, professional thing, it's usually
like middle aged white guysinsist on just oh, Kim. They just

(30:37):
always cut it down to Kim. Andit's like, how do you be a Midwesterner
who's super polite and alsolike not very confrontational, but
just be like, no, for real.Like when I tell you my name, like
I want you to call me that.That's what I, it's why I said it.
Right. So I didn't know how todo that. And I finally decided to
make a joke out of it becausethat's how I make light of things.

(30:59):
I joke stuff. So it's like no,it's like Kimmy not Kim. Like haha
ba pepa. And it stuck. Andthen it became my website. Kiminatkim.com
kinda just rolls off the tongue.
Yes.
And then Instagram and then itjust kept happening. And then when
I came for time for naming mypodcast, I was like, I should come
up with something. You know,half of the job of an artist is to

(31:21):
title things. I can do this.And I just kept like, if I wait to
title this show, I'll nevermake it. Cause I kept just in my
head. So I was like, you knowwhat? Working title Kimmy not Kim
podcast, we'll just call it that.
I like it.
And it just never changed. Soit's my fun way now of saying, please
call me Kimmy, not Kim.

(31:41):
Yes, you're nicer than me. Iwould just not respond. I would be
like, if you don't call meKimmy, I'm just not going to respond
to you.
I know I'm not.
I'm just all about the partynot responding.
I'm so too nice for that. I'mway too polite. Yeah. So this is
my passive aggressive way ofnot being, of being polite. Still.
I love titling things. I feellike I can't get stuff started on

(32:03):
something unless there is atitle. Even if I end up changing
it before I get started, itneeds to like be the container of
what I, It's a helpful move forward.
Yeah, I, I, I tell people alot like, like the ide this myth
that creativity is thisboundless, boundaryless, you know,

(32:24):
thing is like no, that's soawful. Like don't give people unlimited
options. You gotta give themlots of boundaries. And within those
boundaries you can be so creative.
Yeah.
But if you just have a wideopen sky of possibilities, it Cripples
everybody, makes you incapableof doing it. So if the title is the
thing that is your boundary,go for it. You know, sometimes it's

(32:47):
medium, sometimes it's time,sometimes it's words. You know, Title.
Yeah.
You know, one thing I want toask you when you know you're a parent,
Janelle, and I was talking toBobby Meyer about this. This whole,
like, artist mother. There'slike a whole thing, you know.
About that's so wonderful.
So you said.
Okay, so not the artist'smother. No, being a mother is wonderful

(33:11):
in some ways, but I mean,like, this movement toward affirming
artist mothers is wonderful. Yeah.
You said 10 years. Like, so ifI have a kid, I can't make work again
in 10 years?
No, that's. No. So I did hearthis, and I wish I could attribute
it to the right person becauseI can't remember who said it now.
It was on a podcast a longtime ago, but she said, you should

(33:33):
not expect to get anysignificant work done for the first
three years of each of yourchildren's lives.
Okay.
So obviously you'll still bedoing stuff, probably, but your brain
is just. You're just too. It'stoo much like you're sleep deprived
and you're on the ground doingother things, you know? So the first
three years of my firstchild's life, I was burning the candle

(33:57):
at both ends. I was doingeverything, like, working. I was
an adjunct professor. I had aphotography business. I was making
art projects and a stay athome mom.
Wow.
So it was like during the napsand in the night and all this stuff,
and it just got. It was overwhelming.
Yeah, it sounds exhausting.
It was horrible. Like, I don'tknow what personality, learning opportunity.

(34:18):
But then when my youngest wasfour, then we had another child.
So then that starts the clockagain, another three years. So when
you add all that up together,we had two kids. You're looking at
seven years. And then just sohappened that when my second was
three, I enrolled her in. In,like, pre K. Right. We're like, I

(34:39):
got three hours twice a weekor something. This is gonna be great.
Then the pandemic hit and shutthe whole world down.
Oh, wow.
So then we were back at homeliving all in, you know, with each
other and stuff. So then thatwas another, like, year to two years
of just kidding. But I wasactually pretty creative during that
time and pretty active. But.So 10 years is an exaggeration for,

(35:01):
like, the typical. But I wouldsay that that advice is accurate.
Yeah.
Three years for each Kid.
Okay.
You're just not with it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
And you're learning thingsabout yourself which inform your
practice. And I also tellpeople who are becoming parents for
the first time, who areartists. It's like, don't rush that

(35:23):
process too much, because it'sthat same thing about, like, the
shoulds. Like, I should datemy work, or I should this and that.
It's like you're gonna. You'regonna go through kind of the fire
and brimstone of being ahuman, and then you're gonna come
out of it, and you're gonnahave learned so many new things about
your. Your capacity, love,your endurance, like, what matters

(35:45):
most to you. And if you reallylet that be kind of like a weird
grad school experience forthree years where you're just all
in it, when you come out, thework will actually be richer, stronger,
more potent than it wasbefore. But when you're fighting
against it for all that time,you know, you're just frustrated
and it's hard to produce anything.

(36:06):
Yeah. It's sort of making meanxious listening to.
I'm sorry. I do have thatpresent. Sometimes I make people.
I'm like, wow, that seems likea lot. But that's actually a really
good tip, though, because I'venever heard anybody say that, like,
three years.
Just give. Obviously, you'llstill keep living and doing, but
the brain doesn't quite workthe same way it did before. You have

(36:30):
kids. Yeah, once they're. Oncethey're around.
So do you think you like yourwork now, like, post, now that you've
had your 10 years of parentingas residency or as grad school?
Yeah, mom school, parentschool. I do. I like my work a lot
better. Yeah, I like. I likewhen I'm making more now. I think

(36:50):
it's more. I think in a. In avery strange way, I think it's more
maternal. Like, I've beenthinking a lot about not wanting
my work to be paternalistic,where it's like, I don't want to
be always, like, trying toteach everybody something or, you
know, the ubiquitous you thatI'm speaking in. I'm like, always
keep it local. Keep it aboutme. Like, the more personal it is,

(37:12):
the more universal of animpact it can have. But there is
something about being maternaltoward the work and toward the materials,
toward the ideas that I'mworking with. It's like, there's
compassion, there's slowness,there's love in it. When I look at
my work from before being amom, it was a lot More. I wasn't

(37:32):
in it as much, and even mypaintings were much more aggressive
and more like, visceral. Andthere's nothing wrong with that.
But looking at it now, thetransformation, I'm like, whoa. I'm
more patient with mymaterials. Or I'm more like, just
kind of want to give. I justwant to give them a big hug, you

(37:53):
know, like. And that was a bigtransformation because of learning
it in real life, you know?
Yeah.
Realizing that we all grow andlearn slowly.
Right. It is slow, isn't it?
It's slow.
Yeah. A long arc now, that'ssomething. Nobody told me that it
was all gonna be a slowprocess. I thought it was supposed
to be fast.

(38:13):
Yeah. The shooting star ofcelebrity artists, you know, that's
what I thought the goal was.And I'm like, oh, I don't think.
I mean, I'm on Lumpin Radio,so now everyone's gonna know me.
Duh. Obviously, I seeperforming outside now, it' get crazy.
But I think I had to get ridof that expectation that in order

(38:35):
to be successful, you have tobe famous.
Oh, yeah.
And I don't know, you know,I'm sure actors deal with that. Like,
in the arts, there's somethingabout in the arts that's like, this
is the only way to gauge ifit's working.
Yeah.
You know, but there's so manyother ways. And I think that coming
with age, my world gettingsmaller. Like, the things I care

(38:57):
about the most are right nextto me all the time, climbing on me
and asking me to hug them andall this stuff. Realizing that that
impact can be deep and notwide, and that that's still a form
of success. Yeah. And. Yeah.How do you richly offer gifts to
the things and the peoplearound you as well as you can? Yeah,

(39:21):
that's. I think that's aworthy goal of success.
Absolutely. And I've beenseeing, like, you know, celebrity,
say, like, artists or even,just, like, actors and whatnot. When
you see them make things likeYouTube videos or, you know, there's
that website Substack, whichstarted out as, like, a newsletter
platform, and now it's likeits own weird social media. When

(39:44):
they've. When folks havestarted to come over to those things,
and you're like, oh, wait aminute. You know, is this, like,
why are you doing this?
You're a real person? Like, I.Yeah, I love it. I'm like, oh, look
at you writing about, like,posting pictures of yourself in PJs
or, you know, I'm kind of a,like, Zendaya Tom Holland, fangirl.

(40:05):
I don't know. That's like my.My one guilty pleasure for celebrity
stuff. I love them, and forsome reason, I just. I. The one.
The posts I love of them themost are the ones where they're not
made up and they're not in thered carpet. But look at them. They're
just reg people.
I like it.
They're making choices,they're trying things, and. And part

(40:25):
of them being regular peopleis that they are creatives working
in a creative industry.
Yeah.
And then other parts are thatthey, you know, eat potato chips
on the couch and watch movieswith each other or they. Whatever,
you know.
Yeah. And that they also likeReal Housewives or celebrity gossip,
too. Exactly.
Probably not about themselves.
Right. Oh, my gosh. I know,right? Yeah. I was listening to.

(40:49):
I've been listening to LawRoach, who's, like, Zendaya's stylist.
He has a book.
Cool.
And I've been listening tothat. He's from Chicago. Yeah. Which
I was like, oh, cool. He had,like, a boutique and everything here.
And I was like, oh, how cool.But, yeah, like, that. I feel like
that wall is coming down sothat folks are diversifying. Right.

(41:09):
Cause even him, like, where itmight be a stylist, he might be in
the back end now. Stylists arebecoming known for the work that
they're doing and these imagesthat they're creating for, you know,
celebrities and whatnot. Soit's all very interesting where you
wouldn't have access to that.
Yeah.
Before.
Yeah. The whole. This wholeidea that like, somehow. I mean,

(41:31):
I'm listening to, like, abook, audiobook about Van Gogh right
now, and it's kind of like,how did Van Gogh become Van Gogh?
Yeah.
And I don't know, just there'sthis. That whole existential crisis
I had in undergrad of the,like, painting has no purpose. It's
a money market thing, versusthe fact that there are these people
who get a certain amount oftime on the earth and what are we

(41:55):
gonna do with it?
Yeah.
You know, and, like, who's itgonna impact? Will it be a positive
impact? Will it be a negativeone? You know, micro impacts all
the way around. And, you know,Van Gogh was a really cool dude who
had some serious mentalhealth, you know, struggles in a
time when there was no mentalhealth care for him in those ways.
And, you know, now I'm like,all right, I have a certain amount

(42:17):
of time. What am I gonna dowith it? And just how do I invest
as much care and Creativityand kindness into the people around
me, into the city, honestly,into Chicago, which is like, this
is my place.
Right.
Other places are great too,but I love Chicago.
Yeah. Do you tell your kids,hey, you have a certain amount of

(42:39):
time, what are you going to dowith it?
Yeah, I know. I try not tostress them out. Talking about death.
You're going to color. Are yougoing to get with this? You're going
to get your life together?
Yeah. Well, we do talk a lotabout the like because my oldest
is in seventh grade. And inChicago, if you're not familiar with
the CPS system, high school isa really big thing here. You know,

(43:01):
seventh grade GPA is the thirdof your admittance into high school.
And then in eighth grade youtake a placement test. It's a little
bit like going to college. Andso we're in that process right now.
We're getting ready for thetest and we're gonna start going
on high school tours. And youknow, our family ethos, which is
just one of many. We werelike, we're not. What are we running

(43:22):
toward? You know, what are wetrying to get you into the best high
school so you'll get into thebest college so you'll get into the
best, blah, blah, blah. Andthen what are you gonna do? Just
like work yourself to the bone?
Yeah.
You know, and be. So you cando all of those things. You can go
to the best of the best. Butare you going like richly present
in your body and in yourworld? Are you going for a purpose

(43:45):
that's bigger than yourself?Are you going with an idea that is
exciting and that you reallywant to live into? Like, those are
the questions. That's like, weonly have a little bit of time. Let's
not worry about making as muchmoney as possible. Let's worry about
living as deeply as possible,you know, Or. Yeah, I think it's

(44:06):
just one philosophy of many.But obviously money is important,
I. E. The taxes, conversationfrom before.
Right.
Have to hold them bothintention, just open handed.
But the high schools are free, right?
They're free, yeah. Most ofthem are. There are private ones
that you have to pay for, butthey're free. So, yeah, like if you

(44:26):
want to. I mean, like LaneTech, that's the school my kiddo
wants to go to.
The one that everybody wantsto go to.
There's like over 4,000students at Lane Tech. I've seen
the school bigger than mycollege was, you know.
Yeah. I don't have kids, so Idon't have like really like a barrier
to like, what? But I worked ina commercial where we shot at Lane
Tech. And I was like, whoa,this is huge. This is for kids.

(44:50):
Yeah. Anybody. All of ourrelatives all live in Ohio. So, like,
whenever we explain this tothem, they're like, what? You know,
like, in most school systemsin the United States, you just go
to the school that you live in.
That's what I did. Yeah.
And I was like, well, youknow, here you have to pick your
top 25 high schools to pickfrom. That's what you can apply to.
And they're like, top 25. Howmany high schools are there? And

(45:12):
I was like, there's like 160or something like that. And, like,
it's just. There's a lot. Youknow, It's a big city. We live in
a huge, huge city. I thinksometimes I forget that because it's
sort of a neighborhood feelingcity. And we all kind of get to know
each other in some random wayin some different circles, but we
live in a big place.

(45:33):
High school is not a game. Isee. I wonder if there's a documentary
on that. That seems overwhelming.
I know there's a documentaryabout New York City preschool selections.
They're even more intense thanwe are. Like, people started at preschool
to get them up into the rightIvy League college, right?
Yeah. Okay. There was ahousewife that was talking about
this about trying to get herkid in a certain preschool so that

(45:56):
they can go, like. Cause thepoliticians sent their kids to that
preschool, and she wanted herkid to be in that network. And I'm
like, I know.
It's a lot.
Whoa.
It's a lot of pressure.
That is a lot of pressure. Andyou're putting on your kids, and
it's like, ladies, this aboutyou, or do you want to just be invited
to lunch with the politicians?
Yeah. And I mean, and to putit all back into the art context,

(46:16):
it's a little bit like thatidea of, like, okay, here's your
kid. You've spent so much timecaring for them, teaching them, preparing
them. And then you just gottalet them go. Like, they're gonna
go be themselves somewhereelse without you. And it's the same
with art, where it's like,I've spent all this time making this
piece, researching it,thinking about it, like, yelling

(46:38):
at it. Cause I yell at my arta lot. We have conversations, and
then I just gotta, like, letit go. Like to a gallery, to a home,
to an owner somewhere. Thenthey let it. You know, it's not in
my closet anymore, and itfeels like you're letting part of
yourself go when that happens.It's like, I think it's an emotional
process that you have topractice the letting go of things

(47:01):
that matter the most to you sothat they can keep becoming bigger
without you. And that's alsoone of the reasons I like making
art. Because in theory, thesepaintings I make or this documentation
I've made of my pieces, theideas will live longer than me. You
know, I have artwork from dearfriends who've passed away, and it's
like, dang, they touched this.This was their hands that made this.

(47:23):
And that's a beautiful. It's abeautiful thing to be able to have
something from a person. So.
Yeah. And that's why I thinkthe marketing piece of it all becomes
overwhelming, because thenpeople, they'll say, your art deserves
it. That piece deserves to bemarketed properly.
Don't underestimate yourvalue. You're so, you know, it's

(47:44):
like, I don't know, I don'thave to market all of this stuff.
Yeah, I want to make it.
I know. And low key peoplehave teams, but I'm like, these teams
also come with a price, forsure. Like, they have families and
stuff too, that you have to pay.
And if you're not charging abazillion dollars, you got to charge

(48:04):
a ton for the work so that youcan pay the people to market it.
And then my biggest thing toois that, like, okay, if I have to
charge thousands of dollarsfor every painting, then people I
know who I care about in mycommunity, in this city can't afford
my artwork.
Yeah.
And I feel like it's very. Ithink a life lived next to real art

(48:28):
made by real people is one of,one of the signs of a healthy, rich
life. It's not the only one byany means. But like, if you have
things in your home that youlive beside this artwork, like, it's
technically just what it is,but it's almost like a mirror too.
Like, you live your life withit and you look at it and it reflects

(48:49):
you back to yourself. And asyou change, the way you see it changes
and it becomes, you know, likea relic in your life that means more
to you than just the thingsit's made out of.
Yeah.
And if we only surroundourselves with, you know, plastic
things that, you know, the artcan't be plastic, but, you know,
these things that aren'treally personal or human, I think

(49:11):
we're missing out. I think,you know, people are missing out.
So I want to make my workaffordable so that there's even an
option for someone to havethat in their homes and in their
lives.
Aw, that's so nice.
Yeah. But then no marketingteam, you know, right?
Oh, yeah, I definitely don'thave a marketing team. This is definitely,
like, so it's like, if youdon't see that I've shared something,
it's because I've, like, it'soverwhelming. I haven't had time

(49:34):
or I don't wanna. It's like awhole other practice. I'm trying
to think of marketing as acreative thing, but it still is overwhelming.
Yeah, it is. It is. I can tellI'm not in the healthiest mind space
when I start thinking moreabout my follower numbers, my blah,
blah, you know, like, how manypeople know about this, how many

(49:55):
people saw my reel, all thatstuff than what I'm making the work
about. Like, if I startthinking more about those things
and I'm like, okay, thisisn't. I don't think I'm personally
doing well. This is a checksand balance moment. It's information.
I'm gonna go ass. Why? I'mmore worried about my popularity
than my. Than my product. Thething I'm making, you know?

(50:18):
Yeah, yeah. When you do yourpodcast, do you have, like, a time
set? You know, as we werelike, winding up in our conversation,
like, how is your. Like, letme think. How do I want to ask this?
I'm wondering if you have,like, a set time where you go to,
like, talk to yourself forthese, for, like, the episodes that

(50:38):
you put out and, like, aspreparation. Yeah, I guess so, like.
Or do, you know, like, okay,it's Wednesday. You're in your studio.
Let me stop and talk. Do youdo something like that or. No.
No.
Okay.
No, I don't. I'm very sporadicand wild about it. It's often last.
In season two, I tried toprepare the schedule ahead of time,

(50:59):
so I was like, I'm gonna be soon top of things. And actually was
really helpful. I had thewhole year kind of mapped out. People
knew when their dates were.Were like, this is great. And then
it didn't happen again afterthat. But yeah, I think so. Mine
is always in person. Myconversations are always in person
because I'm kind of over zoom,you know, in the whole season that

(51:20):
we had before. And also, Ithink that timing is very important,
so I want to make sure thatnothing gets in the way of the timing
of our conversation.
Yeah.
And so it often becomes aboutscheduling. Like, hey, when can you
do it? Are you around? Are youtraveling to Chicago, whatever. You
know, I've gone on the roadfor the pirate podcast before and
gone to Iowa and Michigan, andwe have to set that stuff up ahead

(51:42):
of time. But something I do doto prepare for it is I like to. So
if I'm running real high, ifI'm, like, really anxious and I got
a lot of energy, I'm like,okay, I need to listen to the type
of energy that I want in myvoice. So I go find a podcast, either
one of my own or someoneelse's, and I just listen to it for,

(52:04):
like, an hour before, just to,like, okay, this person's so calm
and vibey. And then I comeinto the space kind of vibing as
well. Or if I'm really tiredand aloof, then I, like, listen to,
like, music or a podcastthat's, like, really bouncy to bring
me up a little.
Oh, that's interesting. You,like, start to echo.

(52:24):
I'm reaching for what? I thinkI need more.
Yeah, Yeah, I like that. So ina way, it becomes, like a performance,
too, In a way.
Yeah. Yeah. I think allcommunication is kind of a performance.
Yeah, that's true.
It's about how we. I thinkhumor is about timing. It's so much
like. To make someone laugh isbasically a magic trick. You have
to have so many stars alignedto get that to happen. And, yeah,

(52:47):
I just love all those littleinvisible, unseen nuances that somehow,
if you aggregate them in justthe right way, it creates a star.
You know, it's this beautiful moment.
Yeah.
And it disappears again.
So what kind of things haveyou been talking about or do you
have coming up for yourpodcast that.

(53:10):
Well, so, yeah, I've been inthe last several episodes and the
next several coming up. I had.I was a part of a group show at Dankhaus
German Cultural Center. Theyhave a space in there that we used,
and it was a group show. Sobasically, I went through and had
a conversation with each ofthe artists that were in that group
show, or most of them, and wedid it in the gallery so that we

(53:32):
could literally be looking atthe work that they had in the show.
And then we talked about thatpiece as a gateway into their practice,
which was really fun becauseusually it's a more generic, open
conversation, but this waslike, I'm gonna say what I see in
this piece, and then we'regonna talk more. So that has been
rolling out, and I've got afew more of those coming up still.
So it's just, like, localartists who are at different stages

(53:53):
in their career, doing reallycool work. And it's kind of a cold
read is what I like to like. Ikind of want to do a cold read sub
series where I just go to themuseum and say, like, yeah, this
is what I see. This is why Ithink it's saying this. This is the
color it's using. This is thesize it is to teach people how to
unpack. Looking at artwork,because it's something we learn in

(54:15):
school, but not everybodylearns that. So, yeah, I really started
enjoying that.
Yeah. I remember I went to anexhibition with a friend and he never
seen work and he's only seenit, like, on tv. So he would go up
to each artist and he would belike, so, what was your motivation
behind this? And I'm like, oh,that's a big question. I know, but,

(54:36):
you know, he just got it fromwatching TV or whatever.
It's an honest questionthough, you know?
Yeah. I feel like his face,he's like, just copying what he saw.
And it's like, he didn't haveto do all that, you know, it was
just so funny. So like, eachand every person, they would just
be. You could see each artistjust taking back.
Cause it's like their face,like 8.

(54:57):
O' clock at night and you'rewalking with somebody who's like
packing up like, so what wasyour motivation behind this? And
he's like saying it in a way,like shaking his head, like, so now
you look, like, sort of rude.
You know, or like he thinks hereally knows what he's talking about.
Right. And so then the artistwill answer, like in their speaking
art speak. Right. Because he'sapproached them looking all like,

(55:17):
academic and collegiate aboutit, and he has no idea what they're
saying, you know, and it's just.
That's another one thing thatI feel very strongly about is like,
just be yourself, you know,like, we don't have to impress each
other. Like, there's thiswhole world of acting like, we gotta
impress each other. But that'sthe width of my podcast and hopefully
with my work. It's like, whatif you just said, like, I don't understand

(55:40):
this. Can you tell me about it?
Yeah.
And then that gives, you know,the artist the opportunity to be
like, oh, you're curious andyou don't know much about academic
art. So I'm not gonna talkover your head. I'm gonna meet you
where you are.
Yeah.
Then you have a reallymeaningful, interesting conversation
that actually makes an impact.
Right.
As opposed to all of uswalking around pretending like we're

(56:01):
big fency people who have allthe words and.
Right. We certainly are not.And I'm always asking people to explain
these big words. It's like,what do you mean? Like, I'm sorry,
what do you mean bysupercalifragilis? Like what?
Oh man, I used to, in gradschool, man, oh my goodness. I used
to write down words on myfolder, like secretly when the professors

(56:21):
would use them because I waslike, I have no idea. But you can't
like look it up in class. Soyou just write it down. And I go
home and I would just Googledozens of words every night, you
know, like, what isphysiognomy and what you know. And
still I hear these words andI'm a little bit triggered by them,
but. And then one day Irealized I'm using these words too.

(56:43):
No, I've become.
Well, I like your approach of,you know, how you're making work.
How you said, you know, thisis like work for. Not work for the
blue collar worker, but likeyour lens of how you're seeing that.
Work for.
See, that's me talking fancythrough the lens.
Through the lens. We all saylens. Oh, there's so many.
That's a new lens.
Interesting. That's sointeresting. I say it all the time,

(57:07):
you know, I mean, really, atthe end of the day, it's like, look
at your work through youractual eyes instead of through what
you think other people want tolook at your work through. Because
I, at my core, I am a bluecollar kid.
Yeah.
I'm the first kid in my familyto go to college. I happen to go
to upper level of school and Ifelt lost the whole time and I made
it, I did great. But you know,just like, what does my work want

(57:32):
from me? And then go forward,like, try to be honest about that.
Yeah, you know, like maybeblue collar people will like my work
more if I'm honest about thefact that I'm also a blue collar
person, you know, who happensto be living in another world now
because of the place my lifetook me on.
But I love that. Well, iffolks are interested, where could

(57:52):
they find all of this?
Well, you could check out mywebsite, kimmynotkim.com and Kimmy
is spelled K I M M Y, which ismy preferred spelling. And I'm also
on Instagram immotkim. Thoseare probably the two most direct
ways to find me. And yeah,send me a message. Follow the podcast

(58:14):
KimmyNotKimpodcast on anyplatform where you get your listening
delights leave a rating.Follow along. I'd love to hear from
you. Make me happy.
Yes, I know she would love tohear from me because she's so nice.
Aw, thanks.
Thank you so much for talkingwith me.
Oh, it was so fun.
Lumpin Radio. I love it.
Yay. Lumpin.
So nice.

(58:36):
I'm so happy that we got tospend some time together. It was
really nice. And I'm in areal, real live studio.
I know. Know, right? It's socool. We're so official.
It's a little different thanrecording in my art studio.
For sure.
All right. Bye.
Bye. Oh, she saw Nosy. Oh,she's so nosy. Oh, she's so nosy.

(59:24):
Nosy.