February 4, 2025 • 49 mins
Welcome to episode 67:
From nosey to necessary: The Impact of Evantson Made with Lisa Degliantoni
"I started this work at 40, which just goes to show that it’s never too late to begin something new and impactful" - Lisa Degliantoni
Summary of the episode
Today's conversation centers on the vital role of community arts education and advocacy, delivered with profound insights from Lisa Degliantoni, a dedicated advocate for artists in her community. As the founder and co-director of Evanston Made, Lisa embodies a commitment to fostering visibility and support for artists, emphasizing the necessity of kindness and engagement in a world that often feels overwhelming. Throughout our conversation, we explore how Lisa's journey into arts advocacy began later in life, reminiscent of notable figures who found their calling beyond traditional timelines. She elucidates the importance of creating community among artists, highlighting that the isolation often experienced can be alleviated through collective support and shared experiences. This episode serves not only as a reminder of the power of community but also as an invitation to engage actively in fostering the arts within our own neighborhoods.
Topics Discussed:
- local initiatives can foster support and visibility for artists.
- Lisa’s journey into arts advocacy demonstrates that significant career transitions can occur later in life, inspiring individuals to pursue their passions.
- How Evanston Made serves as a model for community-driven arts organizations, focusing on the needs and aspirations of local artists.
Meet Lisa -
Lisa is a community advocate for artists and makers and is a passionate Community Arts Builder in Evanston. Working as the founder and co-director of the nonprofit arts organization, Evanston Made, Lisa’s enthusiasm for community art building drives the organization's mission-based programs and events that bring visibility and opportunity to the artists in the community.
Chapters:
- 00:08 - Introduction to Community Arts and Kindness
- 03:40 - The Heart of Community Engagement in Evanston
- 19:10 - Creating Community Through Art Advocacy
- 31:24 - Navigating Community and Self-Awareness
- 43:23 - Community Engagement and Cultural Renaissance
Resources mentioned in this episode
- Seriously Baddass Women Interview with Lisa Degliantoni
- Evanston Made
- Lefty’s Bagels
- Mensch’s Deli
- Terrain Biennial
- Zentli on Dempster
Connect with Lisa
Lisa’s Instagram: @thelisadshow
https://www.lisadegliantoni.com/
Connect with Stephanie
Instagram: @stephaniegraham
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hey, friends.
Welcome.
And welcome back to Nosy AFconversations about art, activism
and social change.
I am Stephanie and I don'twant to waste any time getting to
today's conversation becauselet's be real, the way the world
is set up right now, February4, 2025, we could use a little reminder
(00:24):
about community arts ed, artsadvocacy, and just plain kindness.
Let's take a deep breath.
It's wild out here.
Lisa Dellentoni is exactly theperson to deliver this message as
(00:49):
a dedicated community advocatefor art makers.
She is the founder and codirector of Evanston Made, a non
profit arts organization thatbrings visibility, support and opportunities
to artists in her community.
What a treat.
Thank you, Lisa.
Lisa's passion for communityand arts building is at the heart
(01:11):
of everything she does.
And I really can't wait foryou to hear what she has to say.
And also, Lisa, like startedall of this at the age of 40, which
I think is really great.
You know, like Julia Child,Vera Wang, Kirstie Alley kind of
a thing.
I think it's dope.
So I'm really happy for you tomeet Lisa today.
(01:32):
But first theme song.
Gotta get up, get up to thewhole world.
You a winner, winner Vision ofa star with a mission in the cause
what you doing, how you doing,what you're doing and who you are
Flex yourself and pressyourself Check yourself don't wreck
(01:52):
yourself if you know me thenyou know that I be knowing what's
up.
Hey, Stephanie.
Graham is nosy as so Lisa,welcome to Nosy af.
Thank you for having me.
I am also Nosy af, so I feelright at home.
Stephanie.
That is awesome.
Yeah, it really.
It's important to be nosy, right?
(02:14):
I mean, some people are like,clean it up and use the word curious.
But I am one of the nosiestpeople I've ever met in my life.
And people are like, how didyou know that about him?
I'm like, because I'm nosy andI ask all the questions all the time,
regardless of who's in frontof me.
I started to get to the pointwhere there was like a fire truck
(02:35):
up the street and I was likewalking, like, what happened?
You know, like running out there.
Like, I'm really starting totake it to my neighborhood with my
nosiness on the block.
We used to have a mailboxoutside of my building and it got
broken into like 25 times andthe post office took it to fix it.
But every neighbor every dayis like, where's the mailbox, Lisa?
(02:56):
So I was like, I don't I don't.
I guess I have to, on behalfof my neighborhood, start the investigation
process.
So I'm like, in touch with Jan Chakowski.
I have a ticket out.
I'm talking to the US Government.
I'm like.
But I do think that nosinessthat is matched with action is what's
key.
Because plenty of people arenosy and they just get the info and
then they just plant it rightthere and it's just nosy content
(03:17):
of layers with no action attached.
But I'm like, nosy and productive.
Yes.
That's really good.
It's.
It's true.
I think I'm this way as well.
I imagine you are, given thatyou have this podcast platform.
Like, Right.
You're nosy, but you're alsorecording, sharing, and then disseminating
new information that you gather.
(03:38):
I really love Evanston Made because.
Thank you.
You know, as we were, as wewere talking before we started recording,
I'm on with.
I'm with Terrain exhibitions,which is a DIY grassroots bringing
art to front porches, lawns,storefronts, anywhere, basically.
And I just want to, you know,as a part of an artist.
(04:03):
I know you're an artistyourself that has created this space.
No, I'm not an artist.
Nope.
I do not make things.
Girl.
I hate making.
No, I hate creating, makingthings happen for artists because
I'm very impatient and a lotof people are artistry.
But no, I'm a former newsproducer, magazine producer that
(04:24):
has just chosen to help artists.
But I don't make anything.
I've made a pillow in a pot.
I see.
I don't know where in myresearch I pulled that from, because
I knew you had the news, theproducing career.
And I curated a gallery spacefor a long time.
So I did.
I ran a gallery.
But I.
(04:44):
No, I don't.
I don't make things.
I really have general disdainand impatience when it comes to making.
I know.
Wow.
Why do.
Why help artists?
I know, right?
So I ran at the intersectionof turning 40.
I was doing some selfevaluation of career versus vocation.
(05:04):
Right.
Like, am I just gonna.
Because I'm by nature, I'm ahyperactive, extrovert workaholic.
I just like to be in work environments.
I like to execute.
I like deadlines, I likeproducing things.
So I, you know, I knew I coulddo that for the rest of my life.
But I wanted to either be likeOprah or Anna Wintour or not do it.
Right.
I love like these women whoare just like, I'm gonna defy all
(05:27):
gender Roles at the workplaceand just do me.
And by 40, in evaluating, likewhere I was using my talents and
who I was giving my energy toand was I just going to get paycheck
or was I chasing fame?
I did a sort of re evaluationand decided that I was going to pursue
a vocation where I took myenergy and my talents and I gave
(05:50):
them to a group of people or a cause.
And when I looked at thelandscape of who I would help animals,
I'm not that into animals, theenvironment, I already can do my
part.
But like, I needed actionablethings that in front of my face that
I could really affect change.
And I was like, well, artistsneed so much help.
I'm married to an artist.
(06:11):
I know that from concept tocreation is this journey that is
wrought with difficulty.
And then from creation tomarketing to is like this whole different
animal.
And maybe I could just helpthem go from creation to taking things
to market.
Maybe I could fill that gapwith all of this energy and all of
this producer skill set.
(06:32):
And so I started just dabblingin like what it would look like to
pursue a vocation, supportingartist in my community.
And I do think at 40, I wasvery much like I was going to be
a global citizen.
I was going to, you know, justbe in Milan on the weekends and have
a magazine in China.
Like, I was just going.
(06:53):
The whole world was mine.
And the older I got, I waslike, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, sister, you can help.
You can get to know yourneighbors, find out what they make
and buy it like they're.
The world is really teeny tiny.
You just need to get super,super small.
And to the, you know, to theannoyance of most of the people in
my world, I am like, I am thedefinition of hyperlocal.
(07:15):
I am, I disdain going beyondmy city borders because I challenged
myself to make a living, makea life within my.
Like, if I couldn't find acommunity that could sustain me in
every way, then I had to go toa different community and find it.
And, and I, I have basicallyforced Evanston to be my everything.
(07:37):
And I've made it.
Evanston might be a blenderand I've made it act like a toaster.
I've made Evans.
I've leaned on Evanston to bemy absolutely everything.
And that includes my vocation.
And that vocation.
Then like many people whopursue a vocation with laser focused
insanity workaholic energy, ithas become, it has become everything.
(08:01):
Because now word on the streetis if you are an artist, the Resource
that you need in yourcommunity is Evanston made, period.
Our brand is like, call thesepeople, they will help you.
Evanston's a really great area too.
It's very pretty.
It's very.
It feels so Lassie town too.
Like, because like, you know,like the neighborhood.
You're like, hi, neighbor.
(08:24):
I was sad.
I heard there's a Blaze Pizzathat closed there which is not cool.
I know people are very angrythat placed up.
People are very angry thatthose two establishments.
But there are places that haveopened up like Zently on Dempster
which is bananas Mexican foodby Piloto, the artist that is like,
(08:44):
if you don't eat there everyday, I think there's something wrong
with you.
Mensch's deli that just openedup a traditional Jewish deli with
a pastrami sandwich that'slike out of this world.
Like, we have closures, butthere are openings in our food department
that seem to just keep happening.
We keep getting like amazinglefties bagels.
Like these people who aresuper passionate about their food.
(09:04):
Jam do find this.
And Flat Chop was a chain andBlaze was a chain.
But we've got someindependently owned restaurant things
that are happening.
But still Blaze was like, thatwas the 5.99 Savior.
I loved Blaze Pizza.
Oh yeah.
I love them too.
Because everybody can alwaysfind something.
Yes.
When I heard that.
(09:25):
So sorry.
You're right.
Evanston, Evanston is thismagic little.
And I've lived in, you know,I'm Gypsy Rose.
My bag is always packed, onefoot out the door.
I'm always leaving somewhere.
I've lived in nine states inNorth America.
I love shiny keys.
I love new.
I have been here in Edmontonfor 12 years longer than I've been
anywhere since my parentshouse in the Bay Area.
(09:47):
So I'm like, this girl's been around.
And Evanston is very differentthan any other community I've lived
in and communities that arelike in my top three.
Like Brooklyn, obviously.
Brooklyn is the greatest placethat's ever been invented in North
America.
I love Brooklyn, but Evanstonis this mishmash of sort of a petri
(10:08):
dish of all the things thatthe rest of America is, but without
extremes.
I mean, we have rich people,but we don't have like crazy like,
you know, I think we have abillionaire when we have poor people.
But we don't have like ourhighs and our lows are pretty manageable.
But we have every singleproblem that any other community
has.
(10:28):
But we have citizens who careAF about every problem we have.
There's no, like, disdain for what?
X.
Any problem we have, there's,like, 27 people who are crazy passionate
about it.
And there's a lot ofcommunities that are like, yeah,
we got to.
We don't.
We don't do bikes well.
And who gives a crap?
We don't do bikes well.
In Evanston, there's 27 peoplethat are like, bikes, bikes.
(10:52):
Like, we have a very engaged,caring community about so many issues.
And that's the part that Ithink really sets Evanston apart.
It's beautiful.
And there's a bunch of peoplewho care about the beauty.
We have trees that are, youknow, falling in the parkways, and
we've got the, you know, tree advocates.
We have gun violence.
(11:13):
And we've got the people whoare like, I'm gonna get out and pray
and go to city hall and talkabout guns.
I mean, like, people care here.
People are engaged in theircommunity in Evanston in a way that
lots of other places I have lived.
People been like, so what?
I don't care.
I'm gonna make my paycheck andthen go to Walmart and go to bed.
This.
This place cares.
I wonder how so many caringpeople are gravitated towards to
(11:35):
one spot, right?
Like, how many.
Why are there so many artists here?
There's something like thecity did 150th anniversary audit.
Something like 11,000 peoplequalify as artists.
Whether it's landscapearchitects, painters, whatever, there's
something that really pulls people.
I mean, I think the Midwestattracts, like, a very authentic,
(11:56):
genuine person.
In general, less coastal.
Rah, rah, rah.
Look how great I am.
But also, like, there's a.
I think people who care andare engaged really gravitate toward
one another.
Causes connect people in ahuge way.
And I think that our littlecause bat signal goes out and people
are like, oh, yeah, maybebecause we get a lot of new blood.
(12:17):
There's a ton of new peoplewho move to Evanston all the time.
It's not like, places I hear,like Minneapolis, like, it's the
same four generations of family.
And if you're new blood,they're like, go.
Evanston's, like, because ofNorthwestern, because of, I think,
Chicago.
We get a ton of new blood, butwe get people who want to plug in
and be engaged citizens.
Because I think our bat signalof here are issues that we care about,
(12:40):
and here are groups of peoplethat you can connect with so that
you also can pursue thisvocation or this passion.
I think it.
It is a bat signal that goesout that brings People from afar.
How long has Evison made been around?
So 10 years ago, in June of2014, I had been.
(13:02):
I was new to the Evanston ArtsCouncil as just a private citizen
volunteer who joined six otherpeople to allocate $11,000 of grants
to go out to artists in Evanston.
And I had moved here from.
You know, the 10th place I hadlived in was El Paso, Texas, where
we had a really substantialart studio tour in El Paso, the town
(13:23):
with a dollar that investsmore money in the arts than any other
town I've ever lived in in America.
I know that sounds crazy, butwe had this great art studio tour
where you got a little map.
And when I moved here, I waslike, oh, it's Evanston.
There's allegedly so manyartists here.
When at Arts Council, I'mlike, when is the studio tour?
And they're like, oh, yeah,no, that doesn't happen.
(13:44):
I'm like, wait, what?
There's all these artists.
What do you mean it doesn't happen?
Oh, it's way too much work,and it's just so hard to do.
And I'm like, no, it's like amap on a piece of paper, and you
draw the dots and you're like, what?
And they're like, no, we don'tdo programming.
And that's just.
And I was like, that's justsilly information coming out of your
mouth.
It's like, if you don't do thearts walk, who does?
Like that?
Oh, right.
(14:05):
This girl.
So I.
My friend had a gallery namedHeavenston Gallery.
Steven Bialer.
He was, like, a retiredgraphic designer.
And I'm like, knock, knock, knock.
Hey, Steven, I want to dothis, like, studio tour, and I need
to, like, make a map.
Is there any chance you could.
He's like, sure.
Designs a map, 45 locations.
We just do one simple studio tour.
(14:28):
That was it.
45 art studios and just handedout maps around town, hung them in
windows, and just invited thecommunity to just go explore art
studios.
That was it.
That was.
It was free.
It was free to participate,free to be in it.
We did everything.
You know, me and Steven paidthe printing bill and created the
maps.
(14:48):
And then that was just like,that was it.
Because, like, as soon asartists were like, wait, someone's
gonna help us?
Hold on.
There's helpers.
They were like, okay, that wasreally fun.
Thank you so much.
Next year.
Could we.
Could we do that again next year?
And could we also have, like,an exhibit so people could see the
art before, pick which artistthey like, and then build their studio
(15:12):
tour on that.
We were like, sure.
And then the next year, youknow, so it's just like every year,
the artist and it's.
And this is an artist centered artist.
It's not artist run, but it'sartist centered.
So whatever they came to thetable with in terms of what they
needed as a body of people, wewere like, oh, well, we'll design
(15:33):
a program that meets your needs.
And they were like, I thinkit'd be easier for the general public
to like, see our art in personand then plan our studio tour.
We're like, oh, okay.
So every so for the last 10years, it's just in this growing
body of people, artists who'veadvocated for themselves, but then
they've been able to taketheir needs to a group of volunteers,
(15:55):
myself, Liz Kramer, JackieEddy, Kathy Helper, this like, huge
group of people who've cometogether and said, we are in service
of you.
Tell us what you need to levelup your practice, your personal career,
your visibility, all of itwhen it comes to art.
And that's.
This being so responsive toartists needs, I think, is also a
different way to operate whenit comes to supporting artists.
(16:16):
I think there's a lot ofprograms out there that are like,
this is what you need.
You need.
You need X and you need thiskind of frame and you need this kind
of art dealer.
And we were like, just tell uswhat you need.
You've been doing this.
You're the experts in your own Field.
And 10 out of 10 times, andthis has been the biggest shocking
reveal is that artists need community.
(16:38):
It's a very lonely, isolating support.
You're in your studio, you'reediting your podcast.
You're like, is anybody out there?
So they need community.
And some of that community isart patrons.
Some of that community is justneighbors to wave at and be like,
you're alive.
We see you.
You've been in your studio for20 hours.
And the other part of it is friends.
(16:58):
Because those art friends,maybe they have materials they need
to let go of.
Maybe they have a certainpractice technique that they've picked
up.
So, like, it's this.
What has been the biggestinteresting reveal is that Evanston
Maid has just createdCommunity A for a really typically
disparate group of people whodon't have a platform.
Dancers have a stage, bandshave a fan base where they come,
(17:22):
people come sing.
There's no, like, you know,artists are isolated and alone in
a studio.
There's no platform.
That's like, let's come Seeall of them together.
You gotta like develop the platform.
And this is what we've done.
We've just created thisplatform for them to have community.
And I do think that is really,you know, 99% of the reason of this
(17:44):
success is there.
Just we met a need that justwas not even existing in this community.
This is not new.
It happens in many places, butin Evanston it certainly wasn't happening.
Yeah.
And you keep showing up and helping.
Yeah.
Which is.
Yeah, because a lot of peopleget tired.
(18:08):
I could just stop.
I could just go to the beachand stop.
I mean like.
Yeah, because it's reallyrewarding work because it's actionable,
it's results driven.
It's not like ethereal.
And we're going to wait 27years and see what happens.
I mean, we are change, we'retrying to change the culture.
The cultural shift of it withthe private citizens is longer term
work.
Community building in anycapacity is like you got to wait
(18:30):
10 years.
But the work that we do forand in service of the artist is really
actionable.
Quick.
I need to learn how tophotograph my work and I just, I
can't afford a professional photographer.
Can you help me build an athome studio?
Like it's, it's all solvableproblems that on their own, an artist
just maybe wouldn't have theresources and the listserv of 400
(18:52):
people to reach out to.
Wow.
Yeah.
As you talk, I think of like,how could this be replicated?
And I think of like as youstart small, like just start small.
Yeah, we get a lot of phonecalls like Kankakee.
I got a friend who lives there.
She's like, could you come andcreate Kankakee Made?
And I'm like, no, but you can.
(19:14):
Like, you can do Skokie Maid.
I mean, like, and part of meis like, we should make a cute little
franchise booklet of like howto grow an arts centered advocacy
organization in your community.
Because as we, I mean, I alsothink there's this cultural shift
that started what, I don'tknow how many years ago, the handmade
(19:34):
shift where people care toknow the maker ethically.
They want to follow and beconscious consumers and they want
to move away from fast fashionand they're willing to pay the higher
price.
Like there is this generaldraw towards really knowing the maker.
It's so much more interestingand sexy and fun and just makes you
feel better.
Right.
And so I'm like, what's rightin front of our face that we're not
(19:57):
capitalizing on in thiscommunity, we have thousands of makers.
We've got a guy named SamGoldbridge that creates knives that
are works of art, but alsolike cut.
They could cut through a cellphone in like two seconds.
Like this.
Incredibly.
And every.
And then there's some guy wholike makes guitars and the most incredible
guitars and there.
But it's, you know, it'sreally quiet.
(20:18):
It's the Midwest.
People are very humble here.
There's not a lot of like,braggarts that are, you know, come
see me and I'm so great.
So it's just like this couldbe replicated in so many communities
because there's so manycommunities full of really, really
talented people.
The missing link is just thesort of the loudmouth promoter pack
(20:39):
of volunteers who, you know,want to make that happen.
But yeah, we could make alittle cute booklet on like just
how to do this everywhere.
That'd be so fun.
I'll add that to my list ofthings to do.
Yeah, right.
I know Terrain.
Terrain would be like that as well.
Like, oh my God, terrain is so awesome.
We want other people to say,like, you can have terrain, Skokie.
(21:03):
You know, you don't have tohave, like, you don't have to wait
for us to do anything.
You can do it right now.
Yeah, terrain is.
And that's the other thing too.
Like, I feel like our missionsare so similar because one of the
things about Evanston Made iswe just want art to be everywhere.
Right?
We don't want people to.
We want no barriers.
It shouldn't be on white wallsbehind the, you know, skinny person
(21:24):
at the desk and making youfeel like you don't have the language.
Like, art should just be justlike murals.
It should be everywhere sothat your life is just more beautiful
and you get breaks to thinkabout something other than just the
crap that you're going through.
Right.
And what I love about Terrainis the whole front yard art phenomenon
and like, really smart,interesting, amazing month long art
(21:46):
installations that are just everywhere.
And, and it's just likeEvanston Made.
People are like, what is that?
Why is that in my friend's yard?
What's happening?
And it just stops people, itforces them to engage.
The engagement methods arelike, from the QR code to the website,
I just, I think it's so pureand beautiful.
But again, it's like, how doyou, how do you grow that?
(22:06):
How do you keep that going?
How do you get the enthusiasm?
And it's biannual, right?
So it's 2025 is the next one.
How do you that keep fromburning out.
Like, it seems like you havelike a lot of energy to be a great
advocate to share.
Um, how do I not burn out?
(22:28):
Yeah, I mean, I think one ofthe things that really keeps me going
just as a human in general.
It's like why I like cookingso much, why I like talking to people.
I really like results.
If I was doing work where Ifelt like, man, I mean of course
there's goals and KPIs thatwe've set for Evanston made that
(22:49):
are just like keep us striving.
Like, I really wish everysingle citizen in this town had one
piece of art in their houseand then there was a database and
that I could thank them all in person.
Like we have these like reallyinsanely ridiculous goals.
But what keeps me going islike the manageable day to day.
There's just really simplewins every single day with this kind
(23:12):
of advocacy work that we do.
And it's, it allows us to havethese low hanging fruit wins that
keep us going while we'retrying to make massive cultural change
in our community.
So it's the like, I need astudio because mine burned down.
Cool.
Here's one.
Like we, we have a simple low barrier.
I actually need to find a newplace to do my framing because my
(23:34):
old frame shop closed down.
Cool, here's one right here.
So we're, we are all, weoperate like 20% of our deliverables
every day are just supersimple resource plugins.
Okay.
And we, we do that at suchhigh volume that there's like, that's
just this undercurrent of like wins.
Cool.
We're helping these people out.
We're making things happen forso many artists in our community.
(23:57):
So that the 80% of like reallyhard work that's like, oh, we gotta
write this grant.
It'd be great if we got abuilding cheese.
It'd be great if we had a budget.
Like all of that big stuff.
It, that undercurrent keepsall that work flowing.
And I think the other thingtoo is the people who we work with,
specifically Jackie, who's oneof our strongest volunteers, and
(24:19):
Liz Kramer, who's my codirector, is.
They're really, you've got towork with visionary people who can
see well beyond.
Like they can, they can jam onthe day to day, but they can see
five years down the road.
And that I think is reallycrucial to alleviate the burnout
factor because you get burnedout when stuff is just not moving.
(24:41):
When you just don't get results.
You're Burned out when it'slike, man, I'm working so hard.
And, like, no one is coming tothese events.
And we're very nimble.
We'll cancel stuff, we'llredesign things.
We.
We are married to nothing.
We're like, if this is notworking for the artist, there's no
Lisa D's ego.
But I invented that.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
If the artists are not gettingserved pull chalks, we're going to
(25:04):
redesign.
We're going to do something else.
So we're also.
We are not married andburdened to the structure.
And I think that's anotherthing that burns people out, is they're
like, yeah, I'm just doing thesame old stuff.
Like, we redesign, we reboot,we rethink, we regroup.
We're very nimble and innovative.
And I do think that's also.
That is very inspiring to workin that kind of environment.
(25:26):
Yeah.
I'm learning, even for myself,to be more experimental in the process
and not have to commit to stuff.
Like, it's okay to cancel,it's okay to change.
It's okay to come back to allof those things.
Yes.
And just to be totally open.
And if you're open, open, thenyou're going to see, like, oh, yeah,
somebody else gave themselvespermission to try it that way.
(25:47):
Someone else gave themselvespermission to just not be on Instagram
for a week.
Like, there.
There's all of theseopportunities to just, like, pause.
And the better, you know,that's the other.
Aha.
Epiphany.
The more I've always thought,like, oh, it's just gotta be about,
like, helping, helping,helping these artists.
And it's like, the better I amat me being whole and me being awesome,
(26:07):
the better service I am goingto be to artists, my community, my
spouse, my children, my dad.
Like, all of my interpersonals.
Like, and.
And that is the other thingthat keeps me very invigorated in
this work is that I'm alsosimultaneously doing a ton of personal
work.
Like, okay, get my housetogether so that I can be an awesome
(26:28):
podcast guest and say, yes andbe open.
I just called myself anawesome podcast guest.
You.
Yeah, you did.
And you are.
You go, girl.
You had a podcast.
I had a podcast for forever.
I had a talk radio show in ElPaso, Texas.
Talk radio.
Live calls from humans.
(26:49):
And then I thought, when Imoved to Chicago, oh, my God, WBZ
would be like, here's a show.
Lisa D.
And of course, like, thatdidn't happen.
So I did a podcast where I did20 minute unedited conversations
with people for like five years.
And I just, I love, as you cantell, I love talking to people.
I love talking.
I love human connection.
And I just, I love radio.
(27:11):
I love podcasts.
I just think it's an art form.
That is my.
Yeah, it's my favorite.
Are you gonna bring it back?
No.
I've thought about doing like.
Okay, so I've thought aboutdoing really content based series.
Like, like my board president,our board president and my dear friend
Denise Barreto.
(27:32):
We, during the pandemic weredoing a lot of like IG live, the
two of us together, talkingabout whatever.
So I have this vision that wewould be like ebony and ivory, black
lady, white lady, like kind oflike advice radio show.
I think that would be really,really fun.
Cause we have a very different perspective.
We're like the same person,but we're not.
(27:53):
So I've thought about that andthen I've thought about like, it
would just be really fun to dolive radio again.
But I don't know that I don't.
I'm not gonna pursue it.
Like, if somebody invited meto do it, I would do it, but I'm
not.
Yeah, I'm not chasing it theway that I was chasing it before.
No more chasing.
Yeah, no, I understand that.
There was a.
Do you know the website Appsumo?
(28:15):
It basically it just alwaystells you about different web tools
that are on sale.
So it can say like, Riversidepaid $30 and you have it for a lifetime,
like, things like that.
And they just had one forfolks who wanna start their own radio
show.
And I was like, oh, that looks fun.
Oh my God, that'd be so fun.
And there was a, there was a website.
(28:37):
They stopped doing it or.
No, it wasn't a website, I'm sorry.
It was a radio show.
Artists helping artists.
And I love these ladies so much.
Yes, they were on the eastcoast, they were always traveling.
They lived fabulous lives.
And they would just giggle.
And they stopped talking about plenty.
Or.
Yes, they stopped.
I don't know, they didn'treally have like a goodbye.
(28:58):
They just stopped.
But I love listening to them.
People would get mad at thembecause they were traveling and they
seemed like they might be like wealthy.
But I loved hearing them talkabout that stuff like, I'm not taking.
I'm not going to see my sonplay volleyball in Venezuela.
But you're not.
And I want to hear about the.
Lady at the cafe that gave youan attitude like, I love those stories,
(29:25):
you know, and it actually.
And it Even comes back to in that.
This interview.
And I'll put it in the shownotes, the seriously bad women interview
you did.
Oh, my God, that now.
But quick caveat.
I thought she said, answer allthese questions and we'll edit them,
but I think what she said waslike, answer, like five questions.
(29:45):
So I just answered all thequestions, and that was like, way
too.
That was tmi.
That was tmi.
I liked it.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Well, in there, she asked thisquestion, what do you know for sure?
And you said, talking to oneanother, sharing stories and personal
truths is the solution to endall conflict and solve all problems.
(30:08):
It sounds so trite, butgetting to know your neighbor block
by block is how we survive andexcel at community building and quality
of life.
And this is something Lisa, Ialso very much agree with.
That's why I loved hearingthose ladies, like, don't call those
ladies, like, privileged andrude because they're teaching you
about running your artbusiness while they're out of the
(30:30):
country.
You know?
But my question with that is,with that thought, how do you think
about it in the world of true crime?
Because I want to be a goodcommunity member, but I'm not.
I also get scared sometimeswith certain people because sometimes
I could be too nice, and thennow they're really nice back to me,
(30:53):
and then I'm not trying to get hurt.
Yeah, no, that's true.
Well, and.
Well, that's two questions.
How do you move through theworld without being a victim?
Right.
What, what methods do you putup in place to be like, from self
defense class to just like,reading the room?
So how can you be awake in aplanet where.
(31:13):
And you don't want to operatefrom a.
Like, I'm so scared andeveryone's coming after me.
But, like, you need to haveyour wits about you, not be a bird
brain.
Some people are perfect victims.
Perfect.
Yeah.
But then simultaneously, howdo you not know your neighbor because.
And then be like, I had noidea he was a serial killer.
(31:34):
You see those interviews withthose people?
They're like, we didn't know.
We saw Jamie killing thebunnies in the backyard, but we didn't
know.
So, like, it's twofold.
Can you be self aware andawake enough moving through this
world that you're learning whohumans are, how they operate, who
makes eye contact, who doesn't?
Simultaneously, can you get toknow your neighbors and be like,
(31:57):
okay, let me get, Let me get aread on everybody on this block in
this room.
Because at the end of the daywhen I think Tim Waltz was just saying,
like where he was from.
Like, if someone's house wasburning, you would never like, get
to the door and be like, howdo you vote?
How do you love?
How do you pray?
You'd be like, get the catout, save the people.
Let's go.
(32:17):
Like there's this fakeinterview process that people go
through and it's like, well,no, when it comes to neighbors, you're
like, oh my God, I'm locked out.
Do you have a ladder?
I am making cookies and I need.
So like there's this verybasic screening and I really think
that part, a lot of us on thisplanet just go through life with
blinders on.
So they never learn differentpersonality types, they never learn
(32:39):
about themselves.
They never.
There's no authentic get toknow yourself and the people around
you because you're just whatever.
You're isolated and you'reboring and you're not nosy.
Sorry to call un nosy peopleboring, but I do think that it.
Yeah, in the world of truecrime, it does.
It's all about relationship building.
(33:00):
Because you gotta know who isthe serial killer on your block.
I mean, you do to protect your.
Like we used to live.
When we first moved toEvanston, my kids were dinky.
They were like, I don't know,5 and 9.
And we, they were immediatelylatchkey kids.
Both my husband and I workingfull time jobs, taking trains hella
far.
And I'm like, all right, youtwo, you're on your own from like
(33:22):
3:27pm until 7.
Like you just, you're eitherinside or you're on the streets,
but you're together.
And we lived next to a HUDbuilding that was 10 floor, 10 floors
of like the characters Vietnamvets and the mentally unhoused and
former streetwalkers.
It was chaos.
And we were right next doorand I was like, this is an opportunity
(33:44):
for me to get every person inthat building to get to know my babies
and to understand that, yeah,I'm the mom.
Number one, I will cut everyone of them if they mess with my
babies.
But number two, if they seesome other white lady taking my babies.
So I was like.
And instead of running rightfrom that chaos, I was like, okay,
let's get to know all the people.
So from Ross to Dennis down,we had besties in the building.
(34:06):
My kids knew.
These are so again, I couldhave taught my children who were
dinky to be like, this is whoyou walk away from on the street.
But I'm like, no, everyneighbor is a resource and they're
a helper.
Yeah.
And if you build thatrelationship with them, if something
is going wrong, you have helpon the street.
And Also, here are 42 milliondifferent personalities that you
(34:27):
need to start screening as a human.
And hopefully by the timeyou're big enough, you'll know who
to be afraid of and who not tobe afraid of.
But, yeah, it's.
It's super.
It's tiny.
But I think that's so funny.
In the world of true crime, doyou listen to that podcast with the
two girls who unpack theKilgariff girl and somebody else?
All those crime stories?
(34:48):
I did for a little bit.
I've gotten away from truecrime, but it still makes me.
And also I worked on the TVshow Chicago PD for many seasons.
And so I think I have this inme that I trying to, like, break
free from.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's like, I just think about.
(35:08):
That when that narrative is inyour head, too.
I mean, also as a woman, alsoas a woman of color, like, you know,
the stats are not in yourfavor, but I have this very disciplined,
some might say myopic and notsmart brain situation where I'm like,
I'm just not letting thatcontent in.
So, like, football.
(35:29):
Football, for instance.
Right.
I'm just.
I am not developing a base ofinformation about a thing.
I'm just not going to.
So I try and.
And because with true crimeand being a female, and I don't want
to constantly burn down theplanet because I'm a girl, but I
do a lot.
I'm like, shit is stacked upagainst me.
(35:52):
But if I give into thatnarrative of constantly, like, every
headline, it's never like,chick walks into a bar and bludgeons
people.
It's always dudes.
It's always white dudes, andwe are always the victims of every
effing crime.
And so if I give into thatnarrative, my mindset can really
get dark.
And I'd spend a lot of timebeing like, focus on happy, Focus
(36:14):
on the positive.
Focus on what I can do.
So I kind of, like, I let thetrue crime stay at the door.
Yeah, that's a real thing.
And then I think, too.
I think about it as I.
This neighborhood I live innow, I've been here for maybe, like,
five years.
I'm in Avalon park, and this neighborhood.
I'm like, okay, if I take asurvey of who the artists are here,
(36:38):
I'm not really sure.
Maybe I could think about howto help them or how we.
I could be a good neighbor tothem and so I'm like thinking in
my mind, like, oh, how do younavigate that safely?
But I guess you just don'tknow, right?
Well, you navigate it safely.
No, I mean like it's, it is alot of the 3:00pm to 7:00pm hours,
(36:58):
like when kids are getting outof school, buses are on the ground,
cross guards are out.
Like you do it in the windowof time where there's the most eyes
on the street and you knock ondoors so that people see you.
So you, you become aphysically visible person with an,
a bright yellow shirt on.
(37:18):
So people are like, oh, thereshe is, there she goes again.
And she does that everyTuesday at 6:00.
There's a pattern to her behavior.
Oh, there she is again at the coffee.
She's holding up a sign likeif you start self identifying, like,
people see me coming andthey're like, oh, there's that big
nosy gray haired lady who'sgoing to ask me about art on my walls.
Like, you brand yourself asthe person who's out there doing
(37:41):
the census building for theartist in your neighborhood.
But like in a very visiblewindow of time so that, yeah, if
you do get pulled intosomeone's basement and murdered,
they're like, yeah, she's outhere Every Tuesday at 4:00.
This is where she is.
Yeah, yeah, they're like, shewas supposed to be out here and I
don't know, she usually is outhere like clockwork.
Yeah, because that's what shestopped last time.
(38:04):
We just solved your murder.
Look at us.
That's right.
Thank you.
Thank you Lisa and the nosy AFcommunity for finding me.
Oh my God.
Jesus.
No, but, yeah, but I justthink about this stuff.
But you know, I definitelyhave been trying to, you know, take
(38:25):
all that out of myself.
You know, one trick is tothink about what you're doing right
now.
That's one way to get rid ofthat worry and that fear is like,
what are you doing right now?
And sometimes when I do that,I'm like, I'm just going to the bathroom.
It's like, that's fine, you'rejust going to the bathroom.
You have a bathroom.
Just calm down.
Like, you know, like, what areyou doing right now?
You're talking to this superinteresting person.
(38:46):
This is so great.
You're safe, you're in a room,you're like, your Internet works.
Like, you know, and thentypically that most often will lead
to gratitude, but then comfortof like, okay, I'm doing, I'm practicing
self love and doing exactlywhat I'm supposed to be doing can.
We volunteer for Evanston Made?
Like, are there opportunitiesto help out?
(39:10):
I mean really the, the mainthing outside of brand ambassadors,
just people talking about it.
Right?
Um, which lots of people dowith without even filling out a form.
There are so many people whospread the good word gospel of Evanston
Made.
That is awesome.
We have that in spades.
But physically being presentat events like on we always get,
(39:31):
people are always like, I'mhaving this event.
Can Evanston Made have a booth?
Can you bring an activity?
Can you do a pop up?
So Evanston is doing this folkfestival, this folk music festival.
And they're like, it'd bereally great if we had like a maker's
tent of like all the art thatgets made in this market.
And I'm like, oh my God, thatwould be so great.
And we could really publicizeour artists.
(39:52):
But like, we're gonna have tohave humans to answer questions.
So like at our events we havethis on our website, we've got a
volunteer tab and then we listevents like show up at the makers
market and answer questions orshow up at this pop up.
So there is an opportunity toalways just come for an afternoon
and talk about what we do and.
(40:13):
Or the artist that's there.
Because it's also, I think notto globally say that all artists
are very shy introverts.
But like by the time they getto the framed object on the wall,
they've come a long way, It'sa long journey.
They're tired.
They probably don't have a lotmore resources left to like now have
(40:33):
small talk with some idiot whodoesn't know how to spell the word
paint, I mean, like it.
So we like to have human buffers.
So that artist, when they'redone describing or answering questions
like, how long did that takeyou to paint?
That's not nice to say it inthat kind of accent.
But people do just askquestions that are like, really?
Did you maybe want to rethinkthat question?
(40:55):
So we like to have like ahuman buffer between the artist and
everyone else so that theycan, they can be gracious and lovely.
So yes, the volunteer tab.
And then also, I mean there'sa ton of people who we don't, we
don't aggressively fundraise yet.
We don't have like adevelopment schedule plan.
We create events and programsthat break even.
(41:15):
So when we ask for money,we're doing this like 10 year anniversary,
everybody give us $10 campaign.
Because we're like, if 500people gave us $10 each.
That would be like, a lot of money.
And so we're trying to be.
And we're also trying todemocratize the level of the philanthropic
opportunities.
Like, we don't want you to belike, I'm an arts patron because
(41:36):
you have $42 million.
You can be like, I'm an artspatron because I bought a poster
for 75 from my neighbor and Igave this arts organization $10 and
I am an arts patron in my community.
Like, we really want everybodyto be a collector and everybody to
be a patron.
So we always say to people,like, if you like what we do, send
us $10.
Like, you don't need to.
(41:57):
You know, of course somedaywe'll be asking people for millions
of dollars.
But the other way to get skinin the game is just to collect a
piece of art.
Like, send us $10.
Volunteer at an event.
Just like, really get engagedin your community.
Because I mean, not to belike, it means the world for an artist
to.
But it.
If you're making something andlike, you go a whole year and you
(42:20):
don't sell anything or, or noone comes to your studio, or like,
you get a couple likes onInstagram, like, that lack of engagement
might make you quit.
I mean, it's, it's not justabout money and space and time.
It's like the lack ofenthusiasm from your peers and your
community might make you say,like, oh yeah, people just like beer
and potatoes and don't want tosupport my art.
(42:41):
So like, the other way wealways say, like, you can volunteer
and get engaged is like, go toour sales platform and buy a piece
of art.
We have plenty of pieces ofart under 50 bucks.
Like, because that validation,I mean, and you, if you interviewed
a thousand artists who werestill making art after 40, and then
(43:03):
you interview a thousandartists who quit at 19.
Like, the amount of people whoquit art because somebody was like,
why would you do that?
No one's going to buy it.
You know, so like, we werealways just like, if you have time
to help and energy, like, gohigh five an artist.
Go buy what they make.
Like, don't give us the money.
Go give it to some artist.
Yeah.
(43:23):
And, and you, Stephanie, startknocking on doors in Avalon park.
Because, you know, even if youjust did five people and even if
you just did a pop up in acoffee shop like that, the, the ripple
effect of the minuscule effortto help artists in your community
is unbelievable.
And the reason you don't knowwho they are is because there's just
(43:45):
no platform for them to sharewho they are and where.
And like, as soon as thatlaunches, it's like, oh, my gosh,
Avalon park made.
Boom.
Yeah.
It's like, maybe I can justask at the park, at the park district.
Maybe we can just havesomething there, even if it's just
like a mixer or something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Have to be a lot.
We are.
(44:05):
So there is this seismic shiftthat I just sort of mentioned at
the top of this interview.
Like, we, we really needthings to be different.
We have been in this ten yearchaos hell based on this game show,
Jackass, who somehow took over.
Right?
All of our, all of our mediaoutlets, all of our media outlets
have been making a lot ofmoney because of this fool and we
need to cancel that.
We need to turn off his channel.
(44:27):
Right?
But absolutely.
I think this whole entireworld, if things go as planned and
we all do something, we'reabout to go into this moment of,
like, joy and connection and community.
And like, I am here for it.
I have been working on thatinfrastructure for 10 years.
I have everything in place forall of these people to come out of
(44:48):
the woodwork and gathertogether in the name of community.
And I just kind of feel likethere might be a little cultural
renaissance in the connection department.
We might be about to seepeople finally feeling comfortable
to just be super different andshow up where before it was like
you were going to bedifferent, show up and then be just,
you know, thrown into the river.
This is, I think we're aboutto enter a very different cultural
(45:10):
time.
And people like you who arewilling to record and share and be
curious are just, you'rereally poised to be, I think, cultural
change makers in thatdepartment because, like, you know,
we're going to need that morethan ever because people are going
to be feeling the excitementand the joy to experience what it
is you're doing.
So don't stop.
Do more.
(45:30):
If I could just give you some advice.
Do more.
Stephanie, thank you so much.
I want to tell you to do moretoo, but you're probably like, I
don't need you to tell me thatI'm doing plenty.
No, I'm going to the beach.
Or if you see a model outthere, because you talk to a lot
of amazing people, you'reinvolved with terrain, you know,
saic, homies, all the people.
Like, if you see one out theredoing something in this artist, mission
(45:55):
driven arena, be like here.
Because this is again, notabout Lisa D.
It's not about Liz Kramer.
It's not about Evanston Madeit's about the artist, how we can
be in better service.
And if you see other humansdoing that in great ways, let me
know.
And then I'm super psyched.
I just put, you know, I tooklots of notes on my other side of
my letter, but the terrain2025 is on my list.
(46:17):
I want to help facilitate andmake that happen, because typically
we fold that into our big artweekend in October, and people love
adding that studio tour, and it's.
So thank you also for thatwork because it's amazing and awesome.
Yeah, Cool.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
This was lovely.
Y'all know something that Irealized I am super duper scary.
(46:43):
Like, you know what girl isn't right?
Like, it's like we'reconditioned to always be with a buddy.
Jog with the buddy, walk downthe street with the buddy, you know,
Girl Scout orders.
When I was a little GirlScout, we always had to do our cookie
orders.
Going next door, next doorwith a buddy.
It's always this buddy stuff.
And so I think when I'm tryingto do stuff and it's just by myself,
(47:07):
I need to just get a buddy.
I should have asked Lisa, doesshe want to be my buddy?
Hmm, I'll have to call her.
But, you know, giggling abouttrue crime and all this kind of stuff,
it really made me think Ishould send us off with a little
prayer.
So with that being said,Heavenly Father, protect those of
us knocking on doors nosyenough to meet our neighbors, not
(47:29):
always knowing why or whatwe'll find, keep us safe from harm.
One we are really wanting tobe is curious.
We just want to know what'sgoing on.
Is that nosy God?
Yeah, I guess it is.
But you know what, Lord?
You made us curious.
You gave us inquisitive minds,and we want to use them and do what
(47:50):
is right.
And while we're at it, let mejust go ahead and bind us from ever
becoming stories of true crime.
Nope.
We are gonna speak onlypositive news stories over our lives.
So I just wanna put that outthere, you know, because words have
power, and so we're not aboutto play with that.
(48:13):
Oh, my gosh.
So, you know, with that beingsaid, I'm so happy Lisa came to hang
with us.
And we recorded this interviewback in the summer, you know, before
we knew what would become ofthe election.
And here we are now, Tuesday, Feb.
4, 2025.
(48:34):
And I just want to say.
Well, I don't even know whatto say, but I do know I'm grateful
for the space.
Like, the one of Evanston made.
And if you want to be moreinvolved in your community, well,
I guess just like me, webetter head out to the streets and
I'll see you tomorrow fromthree to seven.
(48:55):
Knocking on doors thank you somuch for listening to Nosy AF and
I will see you soon.
This has been another episodeof Nosy af.
I'm your host, Stephanie Graham.
What did you think abouttoday's conversation?
I would love to hear your thoughts.
Head over to the Nosy AFwebsite for all the show notes related
(49:17):
to this episode.
You can also find me on Instagram.
Tefanie Graham, what would you know?
Or online@missgram.com whereyou can sign up for my newsletter
where I share exclusiveupdates about my studio practice
as well as this podcast.
Until next time, y'all staycurious and take care.
Bye.
Hey, friends.
Welcome.
And welcome back to Nosy AFconversations about art, activism
and social change.
I am Stephanie and I don'twant to waste any time getting to
today's conversation becauselet's be real, the way the world
is set up right now, February4, 2025, we could use a little reminder
(00:24):
about community arts ed, artsadvocacy, and just plain kindness.
Let's take a deep breath.
It's wild out here.
Lisa Dellentoni is exactly theperson to deliver this message as
(00:49):
a dedicated community advocatefor art makers.
She is the founder and codirector of Evanston Made, a non
profit arts organization thatbrings visibility, support and opportunities
to artists in her community.
What a treat.
Thank you, Lisa.
Lisa's passion for communityand arts building is at the heart
(01:11):
of everything she does.
And I really can't wait foryou to hear what she has to say.
And also, Lisa, like startedall of this at the age of 40, which
I think is really great.
You know, like Julia Child,Vera Wang, Kirstie Alley kind of
a thing.
I think it's dope.
So I'm really happy for you tomeet Lisa today.
(01:32):
But first theme song.
Gotta get up, get up to thewhole world.
You a winner, winner Vision ofa star with a mission in the cause
what you doing, how you doing,what you're doing and who you are
Flex yourself and pressyourself Check yourself don't wreck
(01:52):
yourself if you know me thenyou know that I be knowing what's
up.
Hey, Stephanie.
Graham is nosy as so Lisa,welcome to Nosy af.
Thank you for having me.
I am also Nosy af, so I feelright at home.
Stephanie.
That is awesome.
Yeah, it really.
It's important to be nosy, right?
(02:14):
I mean, some people are like,clean it up and use the word curious.
But I am one of the nosiestpeople I've ever met in my life.
And people are like, how didyou know that about him?
I'm like, because I'm nosy andI ask all the questions all the time,
regardless of who's in frontof me.
I started to get to the pointwhere there was like a fire truck
(02:35):
up the street and I was likewalking, like, what happened?
You know, like running out there.
Like, I'm really starting totake it to my neighborhood with my
nosiness on the block.
We used to have a mailboxoutside of my building and it got
broken into like 25 times andthe post office took it to fix it.
But every neighbor every dayis like, where's the mailbox, Lisa?
(02:56):
So I was like, I don't I don't.
I guess I have to, on behalfof my neighborhood, start the investigation
process.
So I'm like, in touch with Jan Chakowski.
I have a ticket out.
I'm talking to the US Government.
I'm like.
But I do think that nosinessthat is matched with action is what's
key.
Because plenty of people arenosy and they just get the info and
then they just plant it rightthere and it's just nosy content
(03:17):
of layers with no action attached.
But I'm like, nosy and productive.
Yes.
That's really good.
It's.
It's true.
I think I'm this way as well.
I imagine you are, given thatyou have this podcast platform.
Like, Right.
You're nosy, but you're alsorecording, sharing, and then disseminating
new information that you gather.
(03:38):
I really love Evanston Made because.
Thank you.
You know, as we were, as wewere talking before we started recording,
I'm on with.
I'm with Terrain exhibitions,which is a DIY grassroots bringing
art to front porches, lawns,storefronts, anywhere, basically.
And I just want to, you know,as a part of an artist.
(04:03):
I know you're an artistyourself that has created this space.
No, I'm not an artist.
Nope.
I do not make things.
Girl.
I hate making.
No, I hate creating, makingthings happen for artists because
I'm very impatient and a lotof people are artistry.
But no, I'm a former newsproducer, magazine producer that
(04:24):
has just chosen to help artists.
But I don't make anything.
I've made a pillow in a pot.
I see.
I don't know where in myresearch I pulled that from, because
I knew you had the news, theproducing career.
And I curated a gallery spacefor a long time.
So I did.
I ran a gallery.
But I.
(04:44):
No, I don't.
I don't make things.
I really have general disdainand impatience when it comes to making.
I know.
Wow.
Why do.
Why help artists?
I know, right?
So I ran at the intersectionof turning 40.
I was doing some selfevaluation of career versus vocation.
(05:04):
Right.
Like, am I just gonna.
Because I'm by nature, I'm ahyperactive, extrovert workaholic.
I just like to be in work environments.
I like to execute.
I like deadlines, I likeproducing things.
So I, you know, I knew I coulddo that for the rest of my life.
But I wanted to either be likeOprah or Anna Wintour or not do it.
Right.
I love like these women whoare just like, I'm gonna defy all
(05:27):
gender Roles at the workplaceand just do me.
And by 40, in evaluating, likewhere I was using my talents and
who I was giving my energy toand was I just going to get paycheck
or was I chasing fame?
I did a sort of re evaluationand decided that I was going to pursue
a vocation where I took myenergy and my talents and I gave
(05:50):
them to a group of people or a cause.
And when I looked at thelandscape of who I would help animals,
I'm not that into animals, theenvironment, I already can do my
part.
But like, I needed actionablethings that in front of my face that
I could really affect change.
And I was like, well, artistsneed so much help.
I'm married to an artist.
(06:11):
I know that from concept tocreation is this journey that is
wrought with difficulty.
And then from creation tomarketing to is like this whole different
animal.
And maybe I could just helpthem go from creation to taking things
to market.
Maybe I could fill that gapwith all of this energy and all of
this producer skill set.
(06:32):
And so I started just dabblingin like what it would look like to
pursue a vocation, supportingartist in my community.
And I do think at 40, I wasvery much like I was going to be
a global citizen.
I was going to, you know, justbe in Milan on the weekends and have
a magazine in China.
Like, I was just going.
(06:53):
The whole world was mine.
And the older I got, I waslike, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, sister, you can help.
You can get to know yourneighbors, find out what they make
and buy it like they're.
The world is really teeny tiny.
You just need to get super,super small.
And to the, you know, to theannoyance of most of the people in
my world, I am like, I am thedefinition of hyperlocal.
(07:15):
I am, I disdain going beyondmy city borders because I challenged
myself to make a living, makea life within my.
Like, if I couldn't find acommunity that could sustain me in
every way, then I had to go toa different community and find it.
And, and I, I have basicallyforced Evanston to be my everything.
(07:37):
And I've made it.
Evanston might be a blenderand I've made it act like a toaster.
I've made Evans.
I've leaned on Evanston to bemy absolutely everything.
And that includes my vocation.
And that vocation.
Then like many people whopursue a vocation with laser focused
insanity workaholic energy, ithas become, it has become everything.
(08:01):
Because now word on the streetis if you are an artist, the Resource
that you need in yourcommunity is Evanston made, period.
Our brand is like, call thesepeople, they will help you.
Evanston's a really great area too.
It's very pretty.
It's very.
It feels so Lassie town too.
Like, because like, you know,like the neighborhood.
You're like, hi, neighbor.
(08:24):
I was sad.
I heard there's a Blaze Pizzathat closed there which is not cool.
I know people are very angrythat placed up.
People are very angry thatthose two establishments.
But there are places that haveopened up like Zently on Dempster
which is bananas Mexican foodby Piloto, the artist that is like,
(08:44):
if you don't eat there everyday, I think there's something wrong
with you.
Mensch's deli that just openedup a traditional Jewish deli with
a pastrami sandwich that'slike out of this world.
Like, we have closures, butthere are openings in our food department
that seem to just keep happening.
We keep getting like amazinglefties bagels.
Like these people who aresuper passionate about their food.
(09:04):
Jam do find this.
And Flat Chop was a chain andBlaze was a chain.
But we've got someindependently owned restaurant things
that are happening.
But still Blaze was like, thatwas the 5.99 Savior.
I loved Blaze Pizza.
Oh yeah.
I love them too.
Because everybody can alwaysfind something.
Yes.
When I heard that.
(09:25):
So sorry.
You're right.
Evanston, Evanston is thismagic little.
And I've lived in, you know,I'm Gypsy Rose.
My bag is always packed, onefoot out the door.
I'm always leaving somewhere.
I've lived in nine states inNorth America.
I love shiny keys.
I love new.
I have been here in Edmontonfor 12 years longer than I've been
anywhere since my parentshouse in the Bay Area.
(09:47):
So I'm like, this girl's been around.
And Evanston is very differentthan any other community I've lived
in and communities that arelike in my top three.
Like Brooklyn, obviously.
Brooklyn is the greatest placethat's ever been invented in North
America.
I love Brooklyn, but Evanstonis this mishmash of sort of a petri
(10:08):
dish of all the things thatthe rest of America is, but without
extremes.
I mean, we have rich people,but we don't have like crazy like,
you know, I think we have abillionaire when we have poor people.
But we don't have like ourhighs and our lows are pretty manageable.
But we have every singleproblem that any other community
has.
(10:28):
But we have citizens who careAF about every problem we have.
There's no, like, disdain for what?
X.
Any problem we have, there's,like, 27 people who are crazy passionate
about it.
And there's a lot ofcommunities that are like, yeah,
we got to.
We don't.
We don't do bikes well.
And who gives a crap?
We don't do bikes well.
In Evanston, there's 27 peoplethat are like, bikes, bikes.
(10:52):
Like, we have a very engaged,caring community about so many issues.
And that's the part that Ithink really sets Evanston apart.
It's beautiful.
And there's a bunch of peoplewho care about the beauty.
We have trees that are, youknow, falling in the parkways, and
we've got the, you know, tree advocates.
We have gun violence.
(11:13):
And we've got the people whoare like, I'm gonna get out and pray
and go to city hall and talkabout guns.
I mean, like, people care here.
People are engaged in theircommunity in Evanston in a way that
lots of other places I have lived.
People been like, so what?
I don't care.
I'm gonna make my paycheck andthen go to Walmart and go to bed.
This.
This place cares.
I wonder how so many caringpeople are gravitated towards to
(11:35):
one spot, right?
Like, how many.
Why are there so many artists here?
There's something like thecity did 150th anniversary audit.
Something like 11,000 peoplequalify as artists.
Whether it's landscapearchitects, painters, whatever, there's
something that really pulls people.
I mean, I think the Midwestattracts, like, a very authentic,
(11:56):
genuine person.
In general, less coastal.
Rah, rah, rah.
Look how great I am.
But also, like, there's a.
I think people who care andare engaged really gravitate toward
one another.
Causes connect people in ahuge way.
And I think that our littlecause bat signal goes out and people
are like, oh, yeah, maybebecause we get a lot of new blood.
(12:17):
There's a ton of new peoplewho move to Evanston all the time.
It's not like, places I hear,like Minneapolis, like, it's the
same four generations of family.
And if you're new blood,they're like, go.
Evanston's, like, because ofNorthwestern, because of, I think,
Chicago.
We get a ton of new blood, butwe get people who want to plug in
and be engaged citizens.
Because I think our bat signalof here are issues that we care about,
(12:40):
and here are groups of peoplethat you can connect with so that
you also can pursue thisvocation or this passion.
I think it.
It is a bat signal that goesout that brings People from afar.
How long has Evison made been around?
So 10 years ago, in June of2014, I had been.
(13:02):
I was new to the Evanston ArtsCouncil as just a private citizen
volunteer who joined six otherpeople to allocate $11,000 of grants
to go out to artists in Evanston.
And I had moved here from.
You know, the 10th place I hadlived in was El Paso, Texas, where
we had a really substantialart studio tour in El Paso, the town
(13:23):
with a dollar that investsmore money in the arts than any other
town I've ever lived in in America.
I know that sounds crazy, butwe had this great art studio tour
where you got a little map.
And when I moved here, I waslike, oh, it's Evanston.
There's allegedly so manyartists here.
When at Arts Council, I'mlike, when is the studio tour?
And they're like, oh, yeah,no, that doesn't happen.
(13:44):
I'm like, wait, what?
There's all these artists.
What do you mean it doesn't happen?
Oh, it's way too much work,and it's just so hard to do.
And I'm like, no, it's like amap on a piece of paper, and you
draw the dots and you're like, what?
And they're like, no, we don'tdo programming.
And that's just.
And I was like, that's justsilly information coming out of your
mouth.
It's like, if you don't do thearts walk, who does?
Like that?
Oh, right.
(14:05):
This girl.
So I.
My friend had a gallery namedHeavenston Gallery.
Steven Bialer.
He was, like, a retiredgraphic designer.
And I'm like, knock, knock, knock.
Hey, Steven, I want to dothis, like, studio tour, and I need
to, like, make a map.
Is there any chance you could.
He's like, sure.
Designs a map, 45 locations.
We just do one simple studio tour.
(14:28):
That was it.
45 art studios and just handedout maps around town, hung them in
windows, and just invited thecommunity to just go explore art
studios.
That was it.
That was.
It was free.
It was free to participate,free to be in it.
We did everything.
You know, me and Steven paidthe printing bill and created the
maps.
(14:48):
And then that was just like,that was it.
Because, like, as soon asartists were like, wait, someone's
gonna help us?
Hold on.
There's helpers.
They were like, okay, that wasreally fun.
Thank you so much.
Next year.
Could we.
Could we do that again next year?
And could we also have, like,an exhibit so people could see the
art before, pick which artistthey like, and then build their studio
(15:12):
tour on that.
We were like, sure.
And then the next year, youknow, so it's just like every year,
the artist and it's.
And this is an artist centered artist.
It's not artist run, but it'sartist centered.
So whatever they came to thetable with in terms of what they
needed as a body of people, wewere like, oh, well, we'll design
(15:33):
a program that meets your needs.
And they were like, I thinkit'd be easier for the general public
to like, see our art in personand then plan our studio tour.
We're like, oh, okay.
So every so for the last 10years, it's just in this growing
body of people, artists who'veadvocated for themselves, but then
they've been able to taketheir needs to a group of volunteers,
(15:55):
myself, Liz Kramer, JackieEddy, Kathy Helper, this like, huge
group of people who've cometogether and said, we are in service
of you.
Tell us what you need to levelup your practice, your personal career,
your visibility, all of itwhen it comes to art.
And that's.
This being so responsive toartists needs, I think, is also a
different way to operate whenit comes to supporting artists.
(16:16):
I think there's a lot ofprograms out there that are like,
this is what you need.
You need.
You need X and you need thiskind of frame and you need this kind
of art dealer.
And we were like, just tell uswhat you need.
You've been doing this.
You're the experts in your own Field.
And 10 out of 10 times, andthis has been the biggest shocking
reveal is that artists need community.
(16:38):
It's a very lonely, isolating support.
You're in your studio, you'reediting your podcast.
You're like, is anybody out there?
So they need community.
And some of that community isart patrons.
Some of that community is justneighbors to wave at and be like,
you're alive.
We see you.
You've been in your studio for20 hours.
And the other part of it is friends.
(16:58):
Because those art friends,maybe they have materials they need
to let go of.
Maybe they have a certainpractice technique that they've picked
up.
So, like, it's this.
What has been the biggestinteresting reveal is that Evanston
Maid has just createdCommunity A for a really typically
disparate group of people whodon't have a platform.
Dancers have a stage, bandshave a fan base where they come,
(17:22):
people come sing.
There's no, like, you know,artists are isolated and alone in
a studio.
There's no platform.
That's like, let's come Seeall of them together.
You gotta like develop the platform.
And this is what we've done.
We've just created thisplatform for them to have community.
And I do think that is really,you know, 99% of the reason of this
(17:44):
success is there.
Just we met a need that justwas not even existing in this community.
This is not new.
It happens in many places, butin Evanston it certainly wasn't happening.
Yeah.
And you keep showing up and helping.
Yeah.
Which is.
Yeah, because a lot of peopleget tired.
(18:08):
I could just stop.
I could just go to the beachand stop.
I mean like.
Yeah, because it's reallyrewarding work because it's actionable,
it's results driven.
It's not like ethereal.
And we're going to wait 27years and see what happens.
I mean, we are change, we'retrying to change the culture.
The cultural shift of it withthe private citizens is longer term
work.
Community building in anycapacity is like you got to wait
(18:30):
10 years.
But the work that we do forand in service of the artist is really
actionable.
Quick.
I need to learn how tophotograph my work and I just, I
can't afford a professional photographer.
Can you help me build an athome studio?
Like it's, it's all solvableproblems that on their own, an artist
just maybe wouldn't have theresources and the listserv of 400
(18:52):
people to reach out to.
Wow.
Yeah.
As you talk, I think of like,how could this be replicated?
And I think of like as youstart small, like just start small.
Yeah, we get a lot of phonecalls like Kankakee.
I got a friend who lives there.
She's like, could you come andcreate Kankakee Made?
And I'm like, no, but you can.
(19:14):
Like, you can do Skokie Maid.
I mean, like, and part of meis like, we should make a cute little
franchise booklet of like howto grow an arts centered advocacy
organization in your community.
Because as we, I mean, I alsothink there's this cultural shift
that started what, I don'tknow how many years ago, the handmade
(19:34):
shift where people care toknow the maker ethically.
They want to follow and beconscious consumers and they want
to move away from fast fashionand they're willing to pay the higher
price.
Like there is this generaldraw towards really knowing the maker.
It's so much more interestingand sexy and fun and just makes you
feel better.
Right.
And so I'm like, what's rightin front of our face that we're not
(19:57):
capitalizing on in thiscommunity, we have thousands of makers.
We've got a guy named SamGoldbridge that creates knives that
are works of art, but alsolike cut.
They could cut through a cellphone in like two seconds.
Like this.
Incredibly.
And every.
And then there's some guy wholike makes guitars and the most incredible
guitars and there.
But it's, you know, it'sreally quiet.
(20:18):
It's the Midwest.
People are very humble here.
There's not a lot of like,braggarts that are, you know, come
see me and I'm so great.
So it's just like this couldbe replicated in so many communities
because there's so manycommunities full of really, really
talented people.
The missing link is just thesort of the loudmouth promoter pack
(20:39):
of volunteers who, you know,want to make that happen.
But yeah, we could make alittle cute booklet on like just
how to do this everywhere.
That'd be so fun.
I'll add that to my list ofthings to do.
Yeah, right.
I know Terrain.
Terrain would be like that as well.
Like, oh my God, terrain is so awesome.
We want other people to say,like, you can have terrain, Skokie.
(21:03):
You know, you don't have tohave, like, you don't have to wait
for us to do anything.
You can do it right now.
Yeah, terrain is.
And that's the other thing too.
Like, I feel like our missionsare so similar because one of the
things about Evanston Made iswe just want art to be everywhere.
Right?
We don't want people to.
We want no barriers.
It shouldn't be on white wallsbehind the, you know, skinny person
(21:24):
at the desk and making youfeel like you don't have the language.
Like, art should just be justlike murals.
It should be everywhere sothat your life is just more beautiful
and you get breaks to thinkabout something other than just the
crap that you're going through.
Right.
And what I love about Terrainis the whole front yard art phenomenon
and like, really smart,interesting, amazing month long art
(21:46):
installations that are just everywhere.
And, and it's just likeEvanston Made.
People are like, what is that?
Why is that in my friend's yard?
What's happening?
And it just stops people, itforces them to engage.
The engagement methods arelike, from the QR code to the website,
I just, I think it's so pureand beautiful.
But again, it's like, how doyou, how do you grow that?
(22:06):
How do you keep that going?
How do you get the enthusiasm?
And it's biannual, right?
So it's 2025 is the next one.
How do you that keep fromburning out.
Like, it seems like you havelike a lot of energy to be a great
advocate to share.
Um, how do I not burn out?
(22:28):
Yeah, I mean, I think one ofthe things that really keeps me going
just as a human in general.
It's like why I like cookingso much, why I like talking to people.
I really like results.
If I was doing work where Ifelt like, man, I mean of course
there's goals and KPIs thatwe've set for Evanston made that
(22:49):
are just like keep us striving.
Like, I really wish everysingle citizen in this town had one
piece of art in their houseand then there was a database and
that I could thank them all in person.
Like we have these like reallyinsanely ridiculous goals.
But what keeps me going islike the manageable day to day.
There's just really simplewins every single day with this kind
(23:12):
of advocacy work that we do.
And it's, it allows us to havethese low hanging fruit wins that
keep us going while we'retrying to make massive cultural change
in our community.
So it's the like, I need astudio because mine burned down.
Cool.
Here's one.
Like we, we have a simple low barrier.
I actually need to find a newplace to do my framing because my
(23:34):
old frame shop closed down.
Cool, here's one right here.
So we're, we are all, weoperate like 20% of our deliverables
every day are just supersimple resource plugins.
Okay.
And we, we do that at suchhigh volume that there's like, that's
just this undercurrent of like wins.
Cool.
We're helping these people out.
We're making things happen forso many artists in our community.
(23:57):
So that the 80% of like reallyhard work that's like, oh, we gotta
write this grant.
It'd be great if we got abuilding cheese.
It'd be great if we had a budget.
Like all of that big stuff.
It, that undercurrent keepsall that work flowing.
And I think the other thingtoo is the people who we work with,
specifically Jackie, who's oneof our strongest volunteers, and
(24:19):
Liz Kramer, who's my codirector, is.
They're really, you've got towork with visionary people who can
see well beyond.
Like they can, they can jam onthe day to day, but they can see
five years down the road.
And that I think is reallycrucial to alleviate the burnout
factor because you get burnedout when stuff is just not moving.
(24:41):
When you just don't get results.
You're Burned out when it'slike, man, I'm working so hard.
And, like, no one is coming tothese events.
And we're very nimble.
We'll cancel stuff, we'llredesign things.
We.
We are married to nothing.
We're like, if this is notworking for the artist, there's no
Lisa D's ego.
But I invented that.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
If the artists are not gettingserved pull chalks, we're going to
(25:04):
redesign.
We're going to do something else.
So we're also.
We are not married andburdened to the structure.
And I think that's anotherthing that burns people out, is they're
like, yeah, I'm just doing thesame old stuff.
Like, we redesign, we reboot,we rethink, we regroup.
We're very nimble and innovative.
And I do think that's also.
That is very inspiring to workin that kind of environment.
(25:26):
Yeah.
I'm learning, even for myself,to be more experimental in the process
and not have to commit to stuff.
Like, it's okay to cancel,it's okay to change.
It's okay to come back to allof those things.
Yes.
And just to be totally open.
And if you're open, open, thenyou're going to see, like, oh, yeah,
somebody else gave themselvespermission to try it that way.
(25:47):
Someone else gave themselvespermission to just not be on Instagram
for a week.
Like, there.
There's all of theseopportunities to just, like, pause.
And the better, you know,that's the other.
Aha.
Epiphany.
The more I've always thought,like, oh, it's just gotta be about,
like, helping, helping,helping these artists.
And it's like, the better I amat me being whole and me being awesome,
(26:07):
the better service I am goingto be to artists, my community, my
spouse, my children, my dad.
Like, all of my interpersonals.
Like, and.
And that is the other thingthat keeps me very invigorated in
this work is that I'm alsosimultaneously doing a ton of personal
work.
Like, okay, get my housetogether so that I can be an awesome
(26:28):
podcast guest and say, yes andbe open.
I just called myself anawesome podcast guest.
You.
Yeah, you did.
And you are.
You go, girl.
You had a podcast.
I had a podcast for forever.
I had a talk radio show in ElPaso, Texas.
Talk radio.
Live calls from humans.
(26:49):
And then I thought, when Imoved to Chicago, oh, my God, WBZ
would be like, here's a show.
Lisa D.
And of course, like, thatdidn't happen.
So I did a podcast where I did20 minute unedited conversations
with people for like five years.
And I just, I love, as you cantell, I love talking to people.
I love talking.
I love human connection.
And I just, I love radio.
(27:11):
I love podcasts.
I just think it's an art form.
That is my.
Yeah, it's my favorite.
Are you gonna bring it back?
No.
I've thought about doing like.
Okay, so I've thought aboutdoing really content based series.
Like, like my board president,our board president and my dear friend
Denise Barreto.
(27:32):
We, during the pandemic weredoing a lot of like IG live, the
two of us together, talkingabout whatever.
So I have this vision that wewould be like ebony and ivory, black
lady, white lady, like kind oflike advice radio show.
I think that would be really,really fun.
Cause we have a very different perspective.
We're like the same person,but we're not.
(27:53):
So I've thought about that andthen I've thought about like, it
would just be really fun to dolive radio again.
But I don't know that I don't.
I'm not gonna pursue it.
Like, if somebody invited meto do it, I would do it, but I'm
not.
Yeah, I'm not chasing it theway that I was chasing it before.
No more chasing.
Yeah, no, I understand that.
There was a.
Do you know the website Appsumo?
(28:15):
It basically it just alwaystells you about different web tools
that are on sale.
So it can say like, Riversidepaid $30 and you have it for a lifetime,
like, things like that.
And they just had one forfolks who wanna start their own radio
show.
And I was like, oh, that looks fun.
Oh my God, that'd be so fun.
And there was a, there was a website.
(28:37):
They stopped doing it or.
No, it wasn't a website, I'm sorry.
It was a radio show.
Artists helping artists.
And I love these ladies so much.
Yes, they were on the eastcoast, they were always traveling.
They lived fabulous lives.
And they would just giggle.
And they stopped talking about plenty.
Or.
Yes, they stopped.
I don't know, they didn'treally have like a goodbye.
(28:58):
They just stopped.
But I love listening to them.
People would get mad at thembecause they were traveling and they
seemed like they might be like wealthy.
But I loved hearing them talkabout that stuff like, I'm not taking.
I'm not going to see my sonplay volleyball in Venezuela.
But you're not.
And I want to hear about the.
Lady at the cafe that gave youan attitude like, I love those stories,
(29:25):
you know, and it actually.
And it Even comes back to in that.
This interview.
And I'll put it in the shownotes, the seriously bad women interview
you did.
Oh, my God, that now.
But quick caveat.
I thought she said, answer allthese questions and we'll edit them,
but I think what she said waslike, answer, like five questions.
(29:45):
So I just answered all thequestions, and that was like, way
too.
That was tmi.
That was tmi.
I liked it.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Well, in there, she asked thisquestion, what do you know for sure?
And you said, talking to oneanother, sharing stories and personal
truths is the solution to endall conflict and solve all problems.
(30:08):
It sounds so trite, butgetting to know your neighbor block
by block is how we survive andexcel at community building and quality
of life.
And this is something Lisa, Ialso very much agree with.
That's why I loved hearingthose ladies, like, don't call those
ladies, like, privileged andrude because they're teaching you
about running your artbusiness while they're out of the
(30:30):
country.
You know?
But my question with that is,with that thought, how do you think
about it in the world of true crime?
Because I want to be a goodcommunity member, but I'm not.
I also get scared sometimeswith certain people because sometimes
I could be too nice, and thennow they're really nice back to me,
(30:53):
and then I'm not trying to get hurt.
Yeah, no, that's true.
Well, and.
Well, that's two questions.
How do you move through theworld without being a victim?
Right.
What, what methods do you putup in place to be like, from self
defense class to just like,reading the room?
So how can you be awake in aplanet where.
(31:13):
And you don't want to operatefrom a.
Like, I'm so scared andeveryone's coming after me.
But, like, you need to haveyour wits about you, not be a bird
brain.
Some people are perfect victims.
Perfect.
Yeah.
But then simultaneously, howdo you not know your neighbor because.
And then be like, I had noidea he was a serial killer.
(31:34):
You see those interviews withthose people?
They're like, we didn't know.
We saw Jamie killing thebunnies in the backyard, but we didn't
know.
So, like, it's twofold.
Can you be self aware andawake enough moving through this
world that you're learning whohumans are, how they operate, who
makes eye contact, who doesn't?
Simultaneously, can you get toknow your neighbors and be like,
(31:57):
okay, let me get, Let me get aread on everybody on this block in
this room.
Because at the end of the daywhen I think Tim Waltz was just saying,
like where he was from.
Like, if someone's house wasburning, you would never like, get
to the door and be like, howdo you vote?
How do you love?
How do you pray?
You'd be like, get the catout, save the people.
Let's go.
(32:17):
Like there's this fakeinterview process that people go
through and it's like, well,no, when it comes to neighbors, you're
like, oh my God, I'm locked out.
Do you have a ladder?
I am making cookies and I need.
So like there's this verybasic screening and I really think
that part, a lot of us on thisplanet just go through life with
blinders on.
So they never learn differentpersonality types, they never learn
(32:39):
about themselves.
They never.
There's no authentic get toknow yourself and the people around
you because you're just whatever.
You're isolated and you'reboring and you're not nosy.
Sorry to call un nosy peopleboring, but I do think that it.
Yeah, in the world of truecrime, it does.
It's all about relationship building.
(33:00):
Because you gotta know who isthe serial killer on your block.
I mean, you do to protect your.
Like we used to live.
When we first moved toEvanston, my kids were dinky.
They were like, I don't know,5 and 9.
And we, they were immediatelylatchkey kids.
Both my husband and I workingfull time jobs, taking trains hella
far.
And I'm like, all right, youtwo, you're on your own from like
(33:22):
3:27pm until 7.
Like you just, you're eitherinside or you're on the streets,
but you're together.
And we lived next to a HUDbuilding that was 10 floor, 10 floors
of like the characters Vietnamvets and the mentally unhoused and
former streetwalkers.
It was chaos.
And we were right next doorand I was like, this is an opportunity
(33:44):
for me to get every person inthat building to get to know my babies
and to understand that, yeah,I'm the mom.
Number one, I will cut everyone of them if they mess with my
babies.
But number two, if they seesome other white lady taking my babies.
So I was like.
And instead of running rightfrom that chaos, I was like, okay,
let's get to know all the people.
So from Ross to Dennis down,we had besties in the building.
(34:06):
My kids knew.
These are so again, I couldhave taught my children who were
dinky to be like, this is whoyou walk away from on the street.
But I'm like, no, everyneighbor is a resource and they're
a helper.
Yeah.
And if you build thatrelationship with them, if something
is going wrong, you have helpon the street.
And Also, here are 42 milliondifferent personalities that you
(34:27):
need to start screening as a human.
And hopefully by the timeyou're big enough, you'll know who
to be afraid of and who not tobe afraid of.
But, yeah, it's.
It's super.
It's tiny.
But I think that's so funny.
In the world of true crime, doyou listen to that podcast with the
two girls who unpack theKilgariff girl and somebody else?
All those crime stories?
(34:48):
I did for a little bit.
I've gotten away from truecrime, but it still makes me.
And also I worked on the TVshow Chicago PD for many seasons.
And so I think I have this inme that I trying to, like, break
free from.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's like, I just think about.
(35:08):
That when that narrative is inyour head, too.
I mean, also as a woman, alsoas a woman of color, like, you know,
the stats are not in yourfavor, but I have this very disciplined,
some might say myopic and notsmart brain situation where I'm like,
I'm just not letting thatcontent in.
So, like, football.
(35:29):
Football, for instance.
Right.
I'm just.
I am not developing a base ofinformation about a thing.
I'm just not going to.
So I try and.
And because with true crimeand being a female, and I don't want
to constantly burn down theplanet because I'm a girl, but I
do a lot.
I'm like, shit is stacked upagainst me.
(35:52):
But if I give into thatnarrative of constantly, like, every
headline, it's never like,chick walks into a bar and bludgeons
people.
It's always dudes.
It's always white dudes, andwe are always the victims of every
effing crime.
And so if I give into thatnarrative, my mindset can really
get dark.
And I'd spend a lot of timebeing like, focus on happy, Focus
(36:14):
on the positive.
Focus on what I can do.
So I kind of, like, I let thetrue crime stay at the door.
Yeah, that's a real thing.
And then I think, too.
I think about it as I.
This neighborhood I live innow, I've been here for maybe, like,
five years.
I'm in Avalon park, and this neighborhood.
I'm like, okay, if I take asurvey of who the artists are here,
(36:38):
I'm not really sure.
Maybe I could think about howto help them or how we.
I could be a good neighbor tothem and so I'm like thinking in
my mind, like, oh, how do younavigate that safely?
But I guess you just don'tknow, right?
Well, you navigate it safely.
No, I mean like it's, it is alot of the 3:00pm to 7:00pm hours,
(36:58):
like when kids are getting outof school, buses are on the ground,
cross guards are out.
Like you do it in the windowof time where there's the most eyes
on the street and you knock ondoors so that people see you.
So you, you become aphysically visible person with an,
a bright yellow shirt on.
(37:18):
So people are like, oh, thereshe is, there she goes again.
And she does that everyTuesday at 6:00.
There's a pattern to her behavior.
Oh, there she is again at the coffee.
She's holding up a sign likeif you start self identifying, like,
people see me coming andthey're like, oh, there's that big
nosy gray haired lady who'sgoing to ask me about art on my walls.
Like, you brand yourself asthe person who's out there doing
(37:41):
the census building for theartist in your neighborhood.
But like in a very visiblewindow of time so that, yeah, if
you do get pulled intosomeone's basement and murdered,
they're like, yeah, she's outhere Every Tuesday at 4:00.
This is where she is.
Yeah, yeah, they're like, shewas supposed to be out here and I
don't know, she usually is outhere like clockwork.
Yeah, because that's what shestopped last time.
(38:04):
We just solved your murder.
Look at us.
That's right.
Thank you.
Thank you Lisa and the nosy AFcommunity for finding me.
Oh my God.
Jesus.
No, but, yeah, but I justthink about this stuff.
But you know, I definitelyhave been trying to, you know, take
(38:25):
all that out of myself.
You know, one trick is tothink about what you're doing right
now.
That's one way to get rid ofthat worry and that fear is like,
what are you doing right now?
And sometimes when I do that,I'm like, I'm just going to the bathroom.
It's like, that's fine, you'rejust going to the bathroom.
You have a bathroom.
Just calm down.
Like, you know, like, what areyou doing right now?
You're talking to this superinteresting person.
(38:46):
This is so great.
You're safe, you're in a room,you're like, your Internet works.
Like, you know, and thentypically that most often will lead
to gratitude, but then comfortof like, okay, I'm doing, I'm practicing
self love and doing exactlywhat I'm supposed to be doing can.
We volunteer for Evanston Made?
Like, are there opportunitiesto help out?
(39:10):
I mean really the, the mainthing outside of brand ambassadors,
just people talking about it.
Right?
Um, which lots of people dowith without even filling out a form.
There are so many people whospread the good word gospel of Evanston
Made.
That is awesome.
We have that in spades.
But physically being presentat events like on we always get,
(39:31):
people are always like, I'mhaving this event.
Can Evanston Made have a booth?
Can you bring an activity?
Can you do a pop up?
So Evanston is doing this folkfestival, this folk music festival.
And they're like, it'd bereally great if we had like a maker's
tent of like all the art thatgets made in this market.
And I'm like, oh my God, thatwould be so great.
And we could really publicizeour artists.
(39:52):
But like, we're gonna have tohave humans to answer questions.
So like at our events we havethis on our website, we've got a
volunteer tab and then we listevents like show up at the makers
market and answer questions orshow up at this pop up.
So there is an opportunity toalways just come for an afternoon
and talk about what we do and.
(40:13):
Or the artist that's there.
Because it's also, I think notto globally say that all artists
are very shy introverts.
But like by the time they getto the framed object on the wall,
they've come a long way, It'sa long journey.
They're tired.
They probably don't have a lotmore resources left to like now have
(40:33):
small talk with some idiot whodoesn't know how to spell the word
paint, I mean, like it.
So we like to have human buffers.
So that artist, when they'redone describing or answering questions
like, how long did that takeyou to paint?
That's not nice to say it inthat kind of accent.
But people do just askquestions that are like, really?
Did you maybe want to rethinkthat question?
(40:55):
So we like to have like ahuman buffer between the artist and
everyone else so that theycan, they can be gracious and lovely.
So yes, the volunteer tab.
And then also, I mean there'sa ton of people who we don't, we
don't aggressively fundraise yet.
We don't have like adevelopment schedule plan.
We create events and programsthat break even.
(41:15):
So when we ask for money,we're doing this like 10 year anniversary,
everybody give us $10 campaign.
Because we're like, if 500people gave us $10 each.
That would be like, a lot of money.
And so we're trying to be.
And we're also trying todemocratize the level of the philanthropic
opportunities.
Like, we don't want you to belike, I'm an arts patron because
(41:36):
you have $42 million.
You can be like, I'm an artspatron because I bought a poster
for 75 from my neighbor and Igave this arts organization $10 and
I am an arts patron in my community.
Like, we really want everybodyto be a collector and everybody to
be a patron.
So we always say to people,like, if you like what we do, send
us $10.
Like, you don't need to.
(41:57):
You know, of course somedaywe'll be asking people for millions
of dollars.
But the other way to get skinin the game is just to collect a
piece of art.
Like, send us $10.
Volunteer at an event.
Just like, really get engagedin your community.
Because I mean, not to belike, it means the world for an artist
to.
But it.
If you're making something andlike, you go a whole year and you
(42:20):
don't sell anything or, or noone comes to your studio, or like,
you get a couple likes onInstagram, like, that lack of engagement
might make you quit.
I mean, it's, it's not justabout money and space and time.
It's like the lack ofenthusiasm from your peers and your
community might make you say,like, oh yeah, people just like beer
and potatoes and don't want tosupport my art.
(42:41):
So like, the other way wealways say, like, you can volunteer
and get engaged is like, go toour sales platform and buy a piece
of art.
We have plenty of pieces ofart under 50 bucks.
Like, because that validation,I mean, and you, if you interviewed
a thousand artists who werestill making art after 40, and then
(43:03):
you interview a thousandartists who quit at 19.
Like, the amount of people whoquit art because somebody was like,
why would you do that?
No one's going to buy it.
You know, so like, we werealways just like, if you have time
to help and energy, like, gohigh five an artist.
Go buy what they make.
Like, don't give us the money.
Go give it to some artist.
Yeah.
(43:23):
And, and you, Stephanie, startknocking on doors in Avalon park.
Because, you know, even if youjust did five people and even if
you just did a pop up in acoffee shop like that, the, the ripple
effect of the minuscule effortto help artists in your community
is unbelievable.
And the reason you don't knowwho they are is because there's just
(43:45):
no platform for them to sharewho they are and where.
And like, as soon as thatlaunches, it's like, oh, my gosh,
Avalon park made.
Boom.
Yeah.
It's like, maybe I can justask at the park, at the park district.
Maybe we can just havesomething there, even if it's just
like a mixer or something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Have to be a lot.
We are.
(44:05):
So there is this seismic shiftthat I just sort of mentioned at
the top of this interview.
Like, we, we really needthings to be different.
We have been in this ten yearchaos hell based on this game show,
Jackass, who somehow took over.
Right?
All of our, all of our mediaoutlets, all of our media outlets
have been making a lot ofmoney because of this fool and we
need to cancel that.
We need to turn off his channel.
(44:27):
Right?
But absolutely.
I think this whole entireworld, if things go as planned and
we all do something, we'reabout to go into this moment of,
like, joy and connection and community.
And like, I am here for it.
I have been working on thatinfrastructure for 10 years.
I have everything in place forall of these people to come out of
(44:48):
the woodwork and gathertogether in the name of community.
And I just kind of feel likethere might be a little cultural
renaissance in the connection department.
We might be about to seepeople finally feeling comfortable
to just be super different andshow up where before it was like
you were going to bedifferent, show up and then be just,
you know, thrown into the river.
This is, I think we're aboutto enter a very different cultural
(45:10):
time.
And people like you who arewilling to record and share and be
curious are just, you'rereally poised to be, I think, cultural
change makers in thatdepartment because, like, you know,
we're going to need that morethan ever because people are going
to be feeling the excitementand the joy to experience what it
is you're doing.
So don't stop.
Do more.
(45:30):
If I could just give you some advice.
Do more.
Stephanie, thank you so much.
I want to tell you to do moretoo, but you're probably like, I
don't need you to tell me thatI'm doing plenty.
No, I'm going to the beach.
Or if you see a model outthere, because you talk to a lot
of amazing people, you'reinvolved with terrain, you know,
saic, homies, all the people.
Like, if you see one out theredoing something in this artist, mission
(45:55):
driven arena, be like here.
Because this is again, notabout Lisa D.
It's not about Liz Kramer.
It's not about Evanston Madeit's about the artist, how we can
be in better service.
And if you see other humansdoing that in great ways, let me
know.
And then I'm super psyched.
I just put, you know, I tooklots of notes on my other side of
my letter, but the terrain2025 is on my list.
(46:17):
I want to help facilitate andmake that happen, because typically
we fold that into our big artweekend in October, and people love
adding that studio tour, and it's.
So thank you also for thatwork because it's amazing and awesome.
Yeah, Cool.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
This was lovely.
Y'all know something that Irealized I am super duper scary.
(46:43):
Like, you know what girl isn't right?
Like, it's like we'reconditioned to always be with a buddy.
Jog with the buddy, walk downthe street with the buddy, you know,
Girl Scout orders.
When I was a little GirlScout, we always had to do our cookie
orders.
Going next door, next doorwith a buddy.
It's always this buddy stuff.
And so I think when I'm tryingto do stuff and it's just by myself,
(47:07):
I need to just get a buddy.
I should have asked Lisa, doesshe want to be my buddy?
Hmm, I'll have to call her.
But, you know, giggling abouttrue crime and all this kind of stuff,
it really made me think Ishould send us off with a little
prayer.
So with that being said,Heavenly Father, protect those of
us knocking on doors nosyenough to meet our neighbors, not
(47:29):
always knowing why or whatwe'll find, keep us safe from harm.
One we are really wanting tobe is curious.
We just want to know what'sgoing on.
Is that nosy God?
Yeah, I guess it is.
But you know what, Lord?
You made us curious.
You gave us inquisitive minds,and we want to use them and do what
(47:50):
is right.
And while we're at it, let mejust go ahead and bind us from ever
becoming stories of true crime.
Nope.
We are gonna speak onlypositive news stories over our lives.
So I just wanna put that outthere, you know, because words have
power, and so we're not aboutto play with that.
(48:13):
Oh, my gosh.
So, you know, with that beingsaid, I'm so happy Lisa came to hang
with us.
And we recorded this interviewback in the summer, you know, before
we knew what would become ofthe election.
And here we are now, Tuesday, Feb.
4, 2025.
(48:34):
And I just want to say.
Well, I don't even know whatto say, but I do know I'm grateful
for the space.
Like, the one of Evanston made.
And if you want to be moreinvolved in your community, well,
I guess just like me, webetter head out to the streets and
I'll see you tomorrow fromthree to seven.
(48:55):
Knocking on doors thank you somuch for listening to Nosy AF and
I will see you soon.
This has been another episodeof Nosy af.
I'm your host, Stephanie Graham.
What did you think abouttoday's conversation?
I would love to hear your thoughts.
Head over to the Nosy AFwebsite for all the show notes related
(49:17):
to this episode.
You can also find me on Instagram.
Tefanie Graham, what would you know?
Or online@missgram.com whereyou can sign up for my newsletter
where I share exclusiveupdates about my studio practice
as well as this podcast.
Until next time, y'all staycurious and take care.
Bye.
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