Brock McGillis, First Openly Gay Hockey Pro

On this On the Rocks, we take a deep dive into the world of sports with Brock McGillis, the first openly gay hockey pro who is currently touring the US with his Shiftmakers Tour, 100 teams in 100 days, to address homophobia, racism, inclusion, and more. Things get candid as we talk about Brock's coming out, the challenges of living a dual life, the world of sports, what he's learned on his tour, what love and relationships look like for him, and he also shares some touching stories from talking to our youth...with guest co-host Michael Ferrera from Pride House and Out Athlete Fund...with your host with the sassy most, Alexander Rodriguez. Raise a glass, it's On the Rocks!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Strawhut Media.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hello on the Rockers. Oh, I see there's a lot
of applause happening. I love it On the Rockers. On
this episode, we deep dive into the world of sports
with Rock McGillis, the first openly gay men's professional hockey player,
Hot on his shift Makers Tour one hundred teams and
one hundred days, and we welcome my co host, leading
Pride House and Out Athletes Fund Michael Fermira with me,
your sassy host with the sassy most who could never

(00:24):
play sports. Over wah wah, raise a glass. It's on
the Rocks. Life is a banquet and most poor suckers
are starving to death.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Time.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
I'd like to propose a toast. This is on the
Rocks with Alexander, where I drink with your favorite celebrities
as you talk about fashion, entertainment, pop culture, reality TV
and well that's about it.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
So pop a cork, lean back, and raise a glass
to arm the Rocks. Bumpy Lord, have mercy buttons and
bows and pattios on the Rocks Podcast, the place where
we're too glad to give a damn. Okay, sports, I
was on the basketball team in school. I was always
on the bench. One day, I actually had to go
on and I made a basket for.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
The wrong team that I was in football, and well
that didn't go well. I'm just gonna stop it right there.
Follow us on Instagram at TikTok at, on the Rocks
on air, and on Facebook. On The Rocks Radio Show,
send me email book me for a Pride wedding funeral.
Keith Sania Brits, I don't care, I'll show up. Info
at on the Rocks Radio Show dot com. Send us
your comments, your guest requests, and your guest questions. The

(01:35):
show is presented by Strahit Media. You can watch and
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We probably tape at UBM GOO Studios. You're one stop

(01:56):
plays for podcasting. All right, let's get the show on
the road. Returning to On the Rocks, not talking about theater. Remarkably,
Michael Ferrara has over twenty years experience working in the
LGBTQ plus nonprofit community, having attended the Paris Summer Olympics.
He is currently spearheading a new organization, out Athlete Fund
that will help support LGBTQ plus elite athletes as they

(02:16):
trained for collegiate, national, and international competitions, while providing a
safe and inclusive space for the athletes and fans together
and experience those competitions live. He will also be leading
Big News Pride House at the Los Angeles Olympics in
twenty twenty eight. Please welcome Michael Farada. That was an authful.
That was That's not the first time you heard this? Well, yeah,

(02:39):
that's not the first time I heard that one either.
But I have to say, I know you went to
Paris and how exciting. I mean, you got to rub
elbows with so many athletes. Stephen Schwartz was there, and
you're just like, oh, hi here, I am all of
this positive energy. We know this last Olympics had the
record number of out athletes. Ever, how do you balance
that kind of energy? You come back to this and

(03:00):
now we're going through what we're going through. How are
you going to carry that energy into the next Olympics
when we have to wait all these years in what
we're going through in our first couple of months.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
Yeah, you know, I mean I think in some respects
as a nonprofit person, you're sort of like, Okay, this
is providing energy for our mission because I think especially
young people who haven't necessarily had to fight the fight,
you know that they've experienced the world with marriage equality,
are in our rights established and so forth. Now they're
under attack, especially our trans community. But like we're all

(03:33):
under attack. The whole LGEB, the whole acronym is under attack,
and you know, so this is an opportunity to do
something positive. And really I sort of think that sports
is the last bastion of the stuff that we've been
fighting against for our whole lives, you know, and I
think if we can if we can get in there
and we can create DEI sorry, it's not a dirty word,

(03:56):
then you know, then we can change the lives of
all lgbt Q plus people because really that's you know,
that's one of the big boys club kind of places
where you know, a lot of young gay people are
still you know, afraid to be themselves and you hear
their stories all the time, and so I'm excited to
be talking to our guests today about that those issues.
But yeah, I mean there's nothing negative about Pride House.

(04:18):
It's for everybody. It's a place where the athletes can
come and feel at home. It's a place where the
fans can come and feel at home and actually enjoy
and party around sports. And I think that one of
the biggest myths about the LGBTQ plus community is that
we don't have sports fans. I mean that's a huge myth.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
Tell that to West Hollywood. This last Super Bowl.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
Side I know, right, right, Yeah, eight hundred people at
a Super Bowl, big gay super Bowl party, you know,
like yeah, and that was a fundraiser for us, but
it's a party that's been going on for years. So yeah,
there's no lack of fans in the LGBTQ plus community
for all sports.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
And I think are your younger generation, they're not so
hooked up on masculine versus feminine themes. And you know,
when you're a boy, you have to play sports because
that's what massdeline people do. Now that's all over the place.
So I think our younger generations is going to save.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Us all well.

Speaker 4 (05:01):
And frankly, you know, like we keep reminding ourselves that, frankly,
most of the out athletes are women. You know, they
do tend to come out more and there's more avenues
for them to be accepted and welcomed and be together
and in safe environments for them, and so you know,
we have to make sure that we're always you know,
keeping a mindset that those are the majority of the
out athletes, and now we're working on making sure that

(05:23):
that happens with with men too.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Thank you Lesbians sponsored by U HAULK just kidding. We
love our lesbians, all right. So let's talk to somebody
who's fighting the fight literally day after day after day.
Brock McGill's, the first openly gay men's professional hockey player,
is hot on his Shift Makers Tour, a groundbreaking initiative
tackling racism, homophobia and sexism in hockey by inspiring young

(05:45):
athletes to foster inclusive environments where everyone belongs. He has
received accolades like the Hockey News one hundred Most Influential
People in Hockey and Queerity's Pride fifty. He shared the
stage with Richard Branson and Billy Porter at the New
York City World Pride and is hugely tessful. One hundred
team tour across Canada proved that real change is possible,
and now he has brought his mission to the US

(06:07):
for the first time. Please welcome. Brock mcguinnis. Hi, how's
that for you?

Speaker 1 (06:13):
That's pretty good?

Speaker 5 (06:14):
Can I tell you something though about the Billy Porter
of Richard Branson?

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Was it a three summe and not a stage performance?

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (06:20):
I don't even know what.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
I was ready to say something. Oh yeah, I mean
I'd hit daddy for the money. I mean no, but
oh yeah, Now.

Speaker 5 (06:36):
Who's speechless exactly? That doesn't happen to you often, doesn't.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
I a glad order for this?

Speaker 5 (06:44):
So I got a call that morning from some group,
like a marketing company, and they're like, hey, can you
come down and do a photo shoot Richard Branson. I'm
like yeah, sure, So I go down. We do this
sole photo shoot and he has this little bus and whatever.
Then they hit me a mic and they're like here
you're up. I'm like excuse me, and there's like three thousand
people in the street.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
I'm hungover.

Speaker 5 (07:06):
It's like one hundred and thirty degrees in New York
at the end of June, right.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
And I'm sweating.

Speaker 5 (07:11):
I'm up there and I just bullshitted like some hockey speech,
like I was a coach. Then I'm sitting in they
had a little area for us. I'm sitting in there,
and the people running and go, yeah, it's a shame you.
I was here. I used to do a show with
drag Race, so I was here filming all week. Like, yeah,
it's a shame you were in town. Thursday, we would
have had you speaking at the fiftieth anniversary of Stonewall.

(07:32):
Oh my God with Sharon Lady Gaga. Oh, I'm like,
so you actually triggered me by Yeah, I couldn't like
there's a million people at that event.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Oh, just so you know, we hung out with share
at the reopening of the abbey. S I'm leaving, Well,
you were late, might as well leave her.

Speaker 5 (07:52):
Like, oh, oh, I'm in Hollywood and you don't show
up on time. Also I'm on gay time always, so
yeah sorry, yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
Yeah, well then you were actually early with those two
things together.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, exactly. I would have been here tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
All right, before we get to all things Rainbow I
want to talk about growing up. Were you always a
jock kid? How did you get into hockey to be
good with?

Speaker 5 (08:19):
Well, I'm Canadian, so they do that or raise maple
poor women in Canada because like children are born with
skates on their feet and that's.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Going to be painful.

Speaker 5 (08:31):
But no, like from a very young age, we start
playing hockey and it's just ingrained.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
It is Canadiana.

Speaker 5 (08:36):
I know, you think we're gonna become or some people
think we're gonna become the fifty first state.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
We're not.

Speaker 5 (08:41):
And we're going If you have a guest room for me, yeah,
you're welcome, and my partner and I can marry some
people and bring them over.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah we need more.

Speaker 5 (08:49):
Liberals, but no, we're just like it's ingrained in our culture.
And I'm from about four hours north of Toronto, which
means I grew up in extreme coal than all you
did was play hockey. Like it's it's winter time months
of the year, and I lived down the street from
an arena and every day after school you go the rink,
coping to get on the ice. And on weekends my
parents would drop off all my meals there and I

(09:10):
got pretty good at the sport and then you start
gating attention for it, and I love attention, like it's
my favorite thing in the world.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
So, but was it a passion for you?

Speaker 5 (09:19):
It was from a very young age. I knew like
like just going. It wasn't okay, your team's practicing these days.
It was like I'm going to the rink hoping nobody's
on so I can go on. And I lived there.
I just loved it, and it just it fueled my soul.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Did you get into sports as a kid.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
Yeah, I mean I played everything because I grew up
in a Boston sports family, so like, you know, you
played everything. You played the Big Four. You played baseball, hockey, basketball,
and football. I was horrible at basketball, but like, yeah,
I understand what we get. My my parents put skates
on me. And because I was telling Brock before we
started that my maternal grandparents are from Canada, so they
sort of you know, passed the on. So I was

(10:01):
in skates by three four years old. Yeah, it's awesome.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Now through your childhood, your hometown, your family, what did
you learn early on as a kid that you still
subscribe to to this day, Like life lessons?

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Wow? Interesting? So from hockey. I learned that.

Speaker 5 (10:22):
First throughout my career. I was a really good player,
but I've been cut at different times, so you learn
how to deal with adversity.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
And what I've really learned is that know is.

Speaker 5 (10:31):
Temporary and that you if you want something, keep pushing
for it, and eventually you will achieve it, even if
you don't on.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
The first try. Because the people.

Speaker 5 (10:41):
Who made it over me at different times, I made
it way further than they did. And my dad always
had a saying that the table's round, and if you
do good things for people, they may not do good
things for you, but eventually somebody will and love that. Yeah,
and so the table's round. And if you just live
by that philosophy, got things are gonna happen for you.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
Something you'll like, meat, cheer.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Fuck.

Speaker 5 (11:09):
You've talked about hold on, though you haven't take goga
once to share no comment.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Got shade, I bet Gaga got the other?

Speaker 2 (11:19):
How about what of her dancers? That's Gaga adjacent?

Speaker 1 (11:22):
You are one of her dancers.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Of her dancers, Adam, that's too much magic for me.
You said in other interviews that you realize, like when
you were seven or eight, that maybe your sexuality was
not the same as the other boys.

Speaker 5 (11:35):
Oh yeah, I knew it was gay when I was six.
The first time I I I still haven't figured out
what movie it was, but my parents were watching a
movie and there's a gay character, and I said, what
if I'm gay? They said, if you're gay, you're gay,
your brock, we love you and that. Oh no, I'm kidding.
I'm very fortunate that I have that, and it's a
ton of privilege to have a family that's so inclusive
and supportive. But growing up, yeah, in hockey, I mean,

(11:56):
all the guys talked about in the locker room were girls,
video games, partying and sports and like music as on
as it's like now wrapper country. But like I realized,
I didn't resonate with it, like I wasn't gay. I
mean I wasn't straight. I knew I wasn't straight, but
I adhered to it. I became one of those bros
because I felt like I had to survival.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
You spent your entire professional hockey career in the closet.
Is fun, but on top of that, you were dealing
with injury after injury, you were dealing with not being
close to your family because you were over in Europe,
you were dealing with drinking and all this kind of stuff.
How did you get through that whole period of your life.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
I honestly don't know.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Like it got pretty dark.

Speaker 5 (12:41):
Oh I was I don't want to trigger anyone else
self harming. I was trying. On a number of occasions.
I tried to dive by suicide. I struggled immensely from
eighteen of twenty three. I drank every single day to
numb it and off to think about it.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
And it degrailed my career.

Speaker 5 (12:55):
I was supposed to be like top of the top,
and then all of a sudden, I'm playing in Europe
and I'm like and I actually then said you need
to figure this.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
Out because it was so dark.

Speaker 5 (13:09):
And I just sat myself down one day and I
was watching my career deraille. I was like, you're gonna
end up dead.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Self sabotage and well, and your body was playing against
you as well.

Speaker 5 (13:20):
I'd season any injuries every year from the age of
fifteen until I retired in my late twenties into early thirties,
and it was just I was train wreck. I wasn't sleeping,
I was drinking. I was self harming. I was depressed.
I'd go home to my Billets house.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Like people thought I had this cool life.

Speaker 5 (13:37):
I'm playing even in junior, Like I'm playing the top
junior league in the world and I'm like seventeen years old.
And then gave my friends into clubs VIP and owners
are coming up giving us trays of shots and like
we're kids. And I'd be walking through mall signing autographs
and they didn't know. I go home at night and
I cry. I hated myself. I was trying to die

(14:01):
and nobody knew, not a soul knew. But when I
decided I need to figure it out, I went Instead
of going to subbery, I went to Toronto and I went on.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
A date with a guy and I just went, Yep,
you're gay.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
It was fresh, and that was your first kind of
real relationship. You're with him for what like three years.

Speaker 5 (14:22):
I was with him for three years without a soul knowing,
not a friend, family member, nobody, And we actually had
a fake name and alias for his friends so they
couldn't find me on social media and figure out I
was a professional athlete and potentially help me and jeopardize
my career.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
I have a crazy story about him though.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Okay, so I really want to know about this, because
how can you build a good relationship when you're not
even being true to yourself?

Speaker 5 (14:45):
Oh it's fucked up? Yeah, like it was. It was
fucked up. Like you can't, Like, that's not sustainable.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
Let's take a role play to the extreme.

Speaker 5 (14:53):
Oh yeah, like we like he literally never got to
meet anyone in my life in three years.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Okay with it.

Speaker 5 (15:02):
We loved each other. We were young, we're stupid, and
we loved each other, and you just like obviously he
wasn't happy about it, and he wanted to meet everyone.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
But the reason we.

Speaker 5 (15:14):
Broke up was because I had a couple of years
where I was injured and miss whole season.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
I had some surgeries and missed a few years and
I was.

Speaker 5 (15:22):
Going back to play and he said, okay, well what's
going to happen? I said, well, I'm gonna have to
go on some dates with girls like I just like
I need to.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
I have no choice.

Speaker 5 (15:34):
He said, I can't, I can't do this, and I went,
I get it, but I also like, this is my life.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
And that was sort of the end.

Speaker 5 (15:44):
It was really sad, and we actually didn't talk for
ten years from that point on.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (15:51):
But we rape in twenty nineteen, I was here filming
at a show with Wild Presents. Plus we're here filming,
and it was I went to New York and I
didn't meet Chair and didn't meet Chair. But one morning
I was walking across Santa Monica to go to the
gym at like seven in the morning, and we bumped

(16:12):
into each other middle of the intersection.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
What are the chances of that?

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Since you were with him in Toronto?

Speaker 5 (16:17):
In Toronto, we hadn't spoken or seen each other in
over ten years. We hadn't anything, and he moved here.
He's American, but he was in he was going to
school in Toronto and he moved here for work and
we just bumped into each.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Other's like seeing a ghost. Wow. It was the while
of this thing ever.

Speaker 5 (16:37):
And we just went over the side, like got off
the street because I didn't want to get a hit
by a car. And we were just like wow. And
I was like, can we like grab coffee or hang out?
And and he was married at the time and his
husband wasn't cool with it, so we didn't. But they
aren't married anymore, and we've actually since become friends. I'm

(17:00):
medium for dinner tonight.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
That's amazing.

Speaker 4 (17:02):
I think that that's an amazing story, what a great story,
because I mean, I love that we just ended that
little part of that happy news because I think there's
such an opportunity for healing. But I'm just so struck
by your story because you know, look at how much
more so many of us have to do in order
to just get to the starting line right now.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
It's exhausting.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
Yeah, and people don't understand the conversations about sports nowadays,
especially with trans athletes, but all of us is like
you have to do so much more just to get
to the starting line, so much more.

Speaker 5 (17:34):
And especially in men's team sports, like trans women for sure,
one hundred percent, that's like a whole different.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Level of what they're going through.

Speaker 5 (17:41):
But like as gay men, like we are so far
behind and we can't in men's team sport in particular,
we like, you know, we're starting fifty feet behind everyone else, sure.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
And if you come out, you risk losing it all.

Speaker 5 (18:00):
It's why there's no gay athlete ites like there's so
few in men's team sport, because like, do you risk
your whole identity is wrapped up in your sport from
the age of Like, I was brocking giless hockey player
from the age of eight. You know, that's all people
talk to me about. So do I risk losing that?

Speaker 4 (18:18):
Yeah, because that step means now you're not Brock the
hockey player.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Now you're Brock the gay guy, the.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Gay gay gay gay in every single interview you do,
every single label, you know.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
Fuck everywhere I go.

Speaker 5 (18:29):
Yeah, now, like that's that's They're like, people like, how
do you feel like your identity is being gay? I'm like, well,
you're straight and the whole world's built for you, so
technically yours is too. But yeah, it is kind of
like I'm I'm just I'm now.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
The gay guy, and which is weird.

Speaker 5 (18:44):
But it's like you'd be the gay guy, and it's
not even like I wouldn't mind like the media and
the this and then that, because that ended up coming anyway.
And frankly, I love it. It's not gonna lie to you.
It's attention, right, Yeah, I love attention. I'm a narcissist
and I'm very self aware. But I think the hardest
part was the locker room, Like I can't be in there.

(19:08):
They're not gonna want me. Teams aren't gonna Teams aren't
gonna want that distraction. They're not going to sign me.
I'm going to lose opportunities to play. I'm going to
jeopardize my career. Somebody has been working towards since I
was six to be gay.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
I was like, can't, and that.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
Is walk awkward. You know, We've all been in situations
with straight guys that know our identity and it's like,
we're not looking at you, but then we on purpose
so not look at you, just to make the point
that we end up coming across weird and it's just
a weird situation.

Speaker 5 (19:39):
And sports, like guys, sports locker rooms are the gayest
place in the world.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
Just leap at each other's ask thee around.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
Naked like like hockey handy next level. It's like the
gayest place I've ever been in my life. But it's true.

Speaker 5 (19:55):
I would attention, like intentionally look away and not want
anyone to think I was checking them out, so you
hide it. Yet they're doing the like some stuff I
won't say, but like some weird shit that like yeah stuff,
oh yeah, like peeing on each other. And I'm like,
it's the case place I've ever been in my life
at the bullet bar.

Speaker 4 (20:16):
Oh yeah, but you hike guys are actually, I think
are more obsessed with penises than we are.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
I think absolutely.

Speaker 5 (20:23):
I think that if it wasn't a faux pas in
those hyper masculine spaces, most great guys would be gay.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
I mean, look at I mean, we look at a
Grecian times and we look at their sports stuff. I
mean it was very, very gay. It was a sign
of honor to service another person.

Speaker 5 (20:39):
But I even look at like so I was when
I was on the tour in Canada. I made us
like I was out one night, my road manager on
the tour is a professional baseball player, and he is
in the minors, so he's still in an off season job.
And he came on the road with me and we
met up with one of his teammates and we're sitting
there and we're having drinks, and then I realized my

(21:02):
partner was probably going to bed because different time zones
since so I just facetimed them at the table and
they're seeing there like, oh, my girlfriend wants me to
talk about my feelings and this and the other, and
that's all we do.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
And blah blah and like some of that stuff.

Speaker 5 (21:14):
And then we're sitting there and I'm like, I call
Matt FaceTime them. He goes, hey, I'm watching a cop shoke.
Can I call you back later. I'm like yeah, man,
And we just hung up and they're like, what the
fuck you can do that? And I'm like, yeah, well
what do you mean?

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah? They're like again, so much shit.

Speaker 5 (21:32):
If I just said like like I can't, I might
see if you're gay, yeah, you wouldn't have this issue.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
So I think they all would turn gay.

Speaker 5 (21:41):
And also if they realized they could have sex at
a gym, they would all turn gay if it wasn't
such a faux pop in those hypermasculine spaces.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Brock. Let me ask you this, having that first kind
of real relationship and having it end the way that
it did, did it affect your future relationships?

Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah? I mean.

Speaker 5 (22:02):
It was heartbreaking and then it took me a while too.
I actually stopped dating because as I, I can't do
this to anyone and I can't do this myself.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
So I would like.

Speaker 5 (22:15):
I don't know, go on a date here or there,
or a hook up or whatever, but I wouldn't date
it wasn't until like I finally came out in my life,
and I came out my private life first and came
out publicly years later. But it wasn't ntil I was
out in my private life that I actually started dating
again because I was like, I don't want to go
through that.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
It was exhausting.

Speaker 5 (22:37):
It was exhausting for him, it was exhausting for me.
It wasn't fair to either of us, and I just
I couldn't handle it.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
So it took years before. It's probably.

Speaker 5 (22:48):
A good I don't know, four or five years before
I dated again.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
Wow, And you made that decision after that relationship as well.
I don't know if it was before or after to
totally leave professional hockey. So that's like breaking up on
a big time because that was a part of your life.
Like you said, from eight years old, how did you
work through leaving the industry? I mean you must have
gone through another type of depression because it's a loss.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, you know what it was.

Speaker 5 (23:19):
It was a weird situation. My body wasn't happy with me.
I'd had and I think a lot of the injuries
were psychosomatic. I think because of everything I was dealing with.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
Being so tense and scared time.

Speaker 5 (23:31):
Not sleeping, drinking, depressed, like like there's just so much,
such a toll that the injuries just followed. And finally
I went and played university hockey, and I was having
injury after injury even there, and I just said, I
just got to stop.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
So I was, but I was about to go play.

Speaker 5 (23:51):
I was actually at the border in Windsor acrossing over Detroit.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
I was getting my visa to go play the season.

Speaker 5 (23:58):
And at that point I was out a little bit,
like I had some gay friends and in Toronto, and
I was starting to go out and I was more myself.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
And I turned the car round and it.

Speaker 5 (24:11):
Was Thanksgiving, Canadian Thanksgiving weekend and I just drove right
back to Toronto and I spent the weekend partying in
the village and I just went, yeap, this is my life,
this is this is me, and I'm okay with this now.
I think the fact that I did it sort of
it wasn't fully on my terms. Like I didn't have

(24:33):
the career I was supposed to have, and I didn't
have that you know, that tenure NHL career that I
was really supposed to have, and so there was a
part of me that I always said, like what if.
But in that moment, I was like at peace because
it wasn't just the injuries that I couldn't play anymore
or it was just too much with being It was

(24:54):
just like no, it all came together and I just
said I'm done and I was able to on my
own decide to step away.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Wow, that's like a scene from a movie.

Speaker 4 (25:06):
It is, and actually a good scene because I think
that's so much of the time, like coming out story
just for some some people expect like it to be
this momentous occasion, but sometimes it's a quiet moments where
you you know you're in yeah, internal you're looking in
the mirror or whatever. Like I can remember looking in
the mirror and trying to say I'm gay to myself
in the mirror, and those are the quiet moments where

(25:27):
you wear things shifts right.

Speaker 5 (25:28):
Yeah, And we have so many coming outs to ourselves
to people, like we never really stopped.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
To girlfriends that you were dating.

Speaker 5 (25:36):
Oh, I set my last girlfriend up with a friend
of mine. Now they're married with kids. Yeah, it's a
full circle.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Angry with me, it's like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Now?

Speaker 2 (25:44):
We can go shopping.

Speaker 5 (25:45):
Yeah, we can watch housewives and right.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Okay, who would play him in a movie? Barry? What's
his name?

Speaker 1 (25:54):
From salt you better? Yes?

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah, from Sulpers.

Speaker 4 (25:59):
Yes, as long as you can dance naked around a mansion.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
What's the song.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
The dance floor?

Speaker 1 (26:08):
Murder on the dance floor? Where's the mansion? Get the
mansion on every corner?

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Now this is better, sweet. But the actual inspiration for
your public coming out you did an interview with Yahoo
Sports was a tragic event for our community. Can you
talk about the inspiration of you finally going public?

Speaker 5 (26:28):
Paul's Yeah, So three things kind of happened around the
same time. A hockey association. Well, first, I found out
all my when I retired from playing, I ran hockey businesses.
I moved back to Sudbury and I was and I
was still immersed in hockey culture, which is wild. I'm
a masochist apparently, because I put myself right back in there.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
It's all I knew.

Speaker 5 (26:51):
And I was working with over one hundred hockey players
a day, and I hit it from them and hit
it for about five years. And then one day I
got a phone call from a hockey mom and and uh,
she said, Brock, I want to set you up on
a date.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
And I just went, oh, fuck, Like what do I do?
What do I say? How do I get out of this?
Without her? Knowing? The guy? And I said, what's her name?
She said Steve.

Speaker 5 (27:16):
I came to find out all my athletes new and
I started observing their behaviors, kind of like animals in
the wild, hockey players in their natural habitat. And I
start to notice that anytime they say something homophobic they
apologized to me.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
I thought, well, maybe we're creating a shift, or maybe
they just like me.

Speaker 5 (27:29):
I'm one of the boys, Like I go on the
ice and I chirp them, which is straight bro for reading.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
And what's the term chirp?

Speaker 2 (27:38):
I'm gonna start using that trip right.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
I love it. I think it's a great term.

Speaker 5 (27:44):
Yeah, it's a great And we go in the Gemini
bench press all of them and that's really the most
important part of the story. He got nothing else. But
maybe they just like me because I'm one of the guys.
But maybe they're calling people sellurs elsewhere. Until one day
I wasn't there and a coach was learning some athletes
on a track and at the end of a workout,
he told them they had ten more sprints, and a younger

(28:04):
player looked at the sprint coach and said, this is
so gay. And an older player looked at the younger
player and said, we don't say that here, give me
fifty push ups. And he did, and not only did he,
but all my athletes started to do that. Anytime they
said something, oh my, wow, it's got goose bumps, another
scene from a movie, but then took it with them everywhere.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
They went, that's amazing.

Speaker 5 (28:28):
Before I know what people, I didn't even know, we're
doing push ups and they said, somebody homophobic the younger player.
One of his teammates one night, was on FaceTime with
his girlfriend. His girlfriend said, let's hang out and he said,
now I can't I have practice. She said that's so gay.
You never want to hang out with me. And he
looked at her and said, give me fifty push ups
right now, we're breaking, and they both dropped down on
FaceTime to fifty push ups. So that happened. And then

(28:49):
right after that season or during that season, a hockey
association will let me work with their teams, and they
wouldn't give me a reason why, even though I worked
with them the year before. I was falling to your
coaching for the different things true to form. My dad
saw the president of the association. He said, is because
Brock's gay president, and I knowing, But the hockey MoMA
just told me everyone was finding out.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
I guess.

Speaker 5 (29:11):
He went home, called some coaches teams I was volunteering
my time with, and actually I showed up to coach
a practice and the head coach had.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
My replacement there.

Speaker 5 (29:17):
Wow, he kicked me off to the coaching staff at
the moment he found out, And two or three other
teams did the exact same thing.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
And then right after that season was pulse. It was
fresh too.

Speaker 5 (29:31):
Here's the reality for us, and here's what straight people
don't necessarily understand. And every room I go into now
I'll look at whether it's an adult at a corporate
gig or you know, teenagers or whatever, and I'll be like,
I'll look at a straight eye and I'll be like,
do you have a girlfriend or a wife. Yeah, I'm like,
so if you're walking down the street holding her hand,

(29:53):
do you worry about anything?

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Like? What do you mean?

Speaker 5 (29:55):
I'm like, do you worry that somebody's going to verbally
harass you for holding her hand, not just some random
person screaming out everyone, but for holding her hand in particular. No,
what about jumped or physically assaulted?

Speaker 1 (30:10):
No? I said, how about killed? No?

Speaker 5 (30:13):
I said, Well, for my community, if two men are
walking down the street holding hands, or two women or
a transperson is just existing, whether we're here in la
or I live in Toronto, you go anywhere smaller in between,
they do have those risks.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
And so those gay bars, those night clubs are say
spaces for us, and Pulse ripped that away from us,
and he infuriated me.

Speaker 5 (30:36):
And right after it, a friend of mine was running
a pretty big LGBTQ plus organization and I'm not gonna
say which one, but about a week later he called me.
He was hosting a charity event and he goes, I'm
on a you shouldn't come. I said, what do you mean?
He goes, I'm on a terrorist hitlist. I went fuck off,

(30:58):
like stop is. At the time, different groups were taking
credit for paulse and he goes, Brocket, they have a
picture of me online.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
I'm a target.

Speaker 5 (31:08):
I said, you're going to the event and he goes, yeah,
I have to. So I'm coming with you. And I've
been to a lot of charity events in my life.
This one was so different. They had metal detector once
at the door. Everyone was being friss. We had undercover
security and officers around us the whole night. There's a
point in the night I went to the Bio grab
a drink that was whening at the front door and
I was watching people get friss check for weapons. I
started to think, it is this seriously having a Toronto

(31:29):
in Canada, And I was like, I got angry, start
thinking like what is it going to change? Is it
going to evolve? When can we just live? And then
I went, well, you see here and be pissed off,
or you can do something. I went home that night
and slept on it, and the next day I phoned
a friend mine who's a journalist.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
She actually saved my life one time.

Speaker 5 (31:48):
She was at the Toronto Star before she went to Yahoo,
and that's why I called her and she.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
Talked me out of dying by suicide.

Speaker 5 (31:55):
One night when I was in the Ohl and I
called her and I said I'm coming up, and she
said are you sure? I said I have to, and
end up writing an article that dropped in November twenty
sixteen coming out and those three things plus that hockey player.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
Was the catalyst.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Do you remember the anxiety waiting for that article to
go live. Fuck.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
So I was back in school.

Speaker 5 (32:22):
I was taking courses and I was sitting in a
first year sports business class and I went up.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
To the prof.

Speaker 5 (32:31):
And I didn't know what type of, you know, reception
this would get, and I just went, hey, I just
want to let you know this is happening. It's going
to drop about ten minutes into class, and she's like, oh, okay,
And we didn't think anything.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
I was. She starts teaching her lesson.

Speaker 5 (32:48):
Or whatever, and then all of a sudden, everyone's phone's
blowing up. Wow, the entire class, and my phone's blowing up.
And then she looked. She looked around the whole room
staring at me, and she's like, we're done.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Class canceled. I left.

Speaker 5 (33:09):
I didn't even tell my family I was doing it,
and I just started driving around the city and crying.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Wow. And I got over ten thousand messages that day
from people, and I was just.

Speaker 5 (33:28):
Like crying, laughing, like I had such a wide array
of emotion. But I was sitting there tents in class,
waiting saying it's eleven, why isn't it out yet? And
then it was it was it dropped at like ten
after and I just went.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Like it's there.

Speaker 5 (33:45):
Now everyone knows and it's a first hand account, and
it's wow.

Speaker 4 (33:49):
What so I mean you're saying you're I mean, I
understand driving around crying, but what what were you were
you feeling everything? Was it fear or was it relief
or what was what were the predominant feelings.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Going on for you?

Speaker 5 (34:02):
Relief? I think relief was a huge one. Joy, pride,
some fear, Yeah, of course, Like it was scary, like
I hadn't told friends. I still wasn't like I was
an out in the hockey world, like people knew, but
I hadn't told anyone, and like and then how's this

(34:22):
going to impact my career? So still running those businesses
and and you know, had aspirations of doing stuff in
the sport and and will this impact it?

Speaker 1 (34:36):
I didn't know. And then my safe space is.

Speaker 5 (34:40):
The gym, which like for you know, I don't know
in Sabriyontara. It's not the same as going to equinox
and who where that's a safe space for different reason.
But I'm sitting there and I'm like in the gym
and I'm sitting on a mat about to like just
more to go work out, and people are walking up

(35:01):
to me and talking to me about it. And then
I'm about to start crying there and I had to leave.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
And it was just like.

Speaker 5 (35:10):
I just couldn't contain any emotion, Like I just couldn't
hold it in. It was just it was just out
there and it was probably you know, it's thirty three,
so and yes, I just aged myself like that was
thirty three or since I was six. You know, that's
twenty seven years of holding this in that space, and

(35:37):
now it's now the whole world knows.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
We know the NHL has been vocal about certain social movements,
but not really queer social movements what you've talked about
in other interviews quite candidly. Somehow you managed to change
this conversation around. They're one of your sponsors for the
shift Maker's Tour. We need to know, especially with what
we're going through the US, how do you change that conversation?

(36:04):
How do you convince this sports league to start promoting
a different idea.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Well, I think I found my place.

Speaker 5 (36:17):
I think our community at times, and a lot of
marginalized groups and allies and whatnot. I think what we've
done is because of social media and because of how
the toxicity of it, we've lost advocacy. We've skipped where
everyone's an activist and we need advocates and activists. We

(36:40):
need people who could go in the room and have
the conversations with people before others come in and burn
it down to see if we can evolve it first,
you know what I mean, Because there are rooms that
we can evolve and they need to work simultaneously. Even
look at like before Stonewall, there's the Matachine Society and
different groups, and there's always been in advocates and activism,

(37:02):
but now we just burn everything down and which has
its place and is needed, but we need advocates and
activists to work like this and cohesion as a unit.
And there's been times in my life where I've been
very vocal and I've been an activist. Before that, I
was more of an advocate. My first form of advocacy is,

(37:26):
you know, very new. I was sort of thrust into
a role. I didn't know what the hell I was doing,
and it was like okay, now, you're the face of
gay in this sport. And it's like I thought I
was just coming out and I was going to go
around hockey stuff, and then when the pandemic hit and
before it, everyone's coming to me non stop with everything, NonStop,

(37:50):
non stop, NonStop, and then it just starts to weigh
on me, and I became more of an activist.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
And I was calling stuff out and I still do.

Speaker 5 (37:57):
There's still times for but now I've realized that, hey,
I have pretty good lines of content, direct contact to
the top of the top of a lot of sport.
I don't have to call them out. They're going to
answer my calls and we can have conversations first and

(38:20):
let's see where things are. And then knowing that you know,
those those people are behind me ready to pounce, is powerful.
So I guess in realizing that, and also I was like,
what has greater good for me? I'm a ciss white,

(38:40):
masculine presenting hockey bro who is gay, you know what
I mean. I can infiltrate a room and be one
of the boys I've been doing in my whole life
and they see me as one of the guys, and
if they don't, I start chirping them, and then they
see me as one of the guys. And if they
still don't, then we have a little push up competition

(39:02):
or a bench press off, and then they do for sure.
So I can walk into those rooms and have conversations
that not a lot of people can have. I don't
need to be the person to burn it down, because
there's others who can do that. But I could try
and create the shifts so that we don't have to
burn it down, and sometimes we won't and sometimes.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
We won't, you know.

Speaker 5 (39:26):
So the league saw the impact of my work. They
saw I was doing it with or without them, Like
I had sponsors saying we're doing this. They don't want
to be involved.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
They don't have to.

Speaker 5 (39:37):
I think there's a lot of good people at the League.
I think they've made some as a league, they've made
some poor decisions. I think that society and corporate culture
is trying to navigate a tight rope instead of recognizing
some things. And I've actually consulted for some corporates where

(39:59):
it's like, if you send your core values and you
don't waver from them, you're gonna be fine. You know,
Like look at bud Light, Bud Light didn't go wrong
by partnering with Dylan. Bud Light went wrong where Okay,
these are core values, were inclusive, we welcome the trans community,

(40:21):
we support prize Da da da da day. So you
know that there's going to be really wise friends said
to me more time. Ten percent people love you unconditionally,
ten percent hate you own conditionally, and there's eighty percent
in the middle. You know that ten percent is going
to pull away if you partner with Dylan, that's inevitable.
But then okay, maybe fifteen percent do because there's that

(40:45):
middle ground where they're hearing disinformation misinformation on the internet.
Then you have the ten percent you know then who
are going to support you because you partnered with Dylan,
and probably more than that as allies and whatnot. Well,
as soon as they pulled away from Dylan, now they
lost the ten percent who hated them for partnering with her,

(41:06):
and now you lost.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
The other side.

Speaker 5 (41:08):
You've lost, and then the allies on either who are
somewhere in the middle are split as well, so.

Speaker 4 (41:15):
Either and their own employees by the way too.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
So now you've lost everybody.

Speaker 5 (41:22):
And this is what I've had to try to explain
to the NHL and show them their own demographics at
times and go, this is what your demos are in America.
They skew young, they skew progressive, they skew mad, urban center.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
It's diverse. They want this stuff.

Speaker 5 (41:37):
You need to lean in harder. You know, those those
people that are anti this, they're watching football and you're
not getting them away from football. That's America's pastime now
like respectfully, baseball, it's America's past time.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
It just is.

Speaker 5 (41:52):
So you're not going to get that audience. You can
get this audience. So and even in the room, like
when I'm working with players, like I have stats and
data that back up and like kids, teenagers are like,
we want more of this, and seeing that it's like
hey look and they're like, yep, So I have the league,

(42:16):
the Toronto may Beliefs, the Ottawa Senators, the Calgary Flames.
In the US, Chicago Blackhawks are a massive partner in mind,
like huge and so supportive. The Ana Hunt Ducks and
the Seattle Kraken this year, and I'm talking to some
others about joining next year.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
In the US. As we continue to do these tours.

Speaker 4 (42:37):
It's amazing. I want to appreciate so much. How you
the sophistication of what you just explained between advocacy and activism,
and I think that's missing a lot today, like you said,
because people just are going right to the er and
that advocacy paves the road. And I remember when I
was younger and incrementalism, which will I think I used

(43:00):
to call advocacy, bothered me because I just wanted to
go right to it. But like incrementalism one marriage equality,
incrementalism wins a lot of things because you, as you appreciate,
you have to win over them fifty one percent. You
have to get the fifty one percent before you win.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
I'll tell you a story.

Speaker 5 (43:17):
So I was speaking out of university last year and
it was supposed to be for the athletic department, but
then they opened it up to the entire school and
there's about four thousand people there and they were protesters.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
I was like, this is awesome. I loved it. They
were actually really respectful until.

Speaker 5 (43:32):
The Q and A, and then they started coming at me.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
Like one guy said, if we keep going like this,
there won't be men or women.

Speaker 5 (43:41):
And I'm like, are you a man? He goes yeah,
I'm like so am I it's not that deep. And
then you know, like another guy started talking about trans
youth and he's like coming at me about trans youth,
and I'm like, all right, well, let's let's take a
step back here, and let's I said, let's let's talk
about staf and facts. Reuters did a study in twenty

(44:03):
twenty one that found there was approximately forty thousand kids
diagnosed with generat asphoria in America out of the millions
of children in the entire country. Of that forty thousand,
approximately four thousand were deemed more extreme cases that therapy
wasn't enough, So that's a small percentage of that forty thousand,
and they were put on hormone therapy. Of that four thousand,

(44:27):
two hundred were deemed very extreme cases life and death
situations where they had top surgery twelve to seventeen years.
I said, so you're protesting, and this was in Canada.
I said, we're tenth of their population, So you're protesting
twenty kids, twenty kids having top surgery. That's what you're
worried about. But then I did some digging and I

(44:48):
found that that same year in America, over two hundred
and seventy five thousand cisgender kids in the same age
demographic had elective cosmetic classic surgery. Wow, so you're protesting
two hundred but two hundred and seventy five thousand or
having boob jobs now jobs bbl's ear jobs, which.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
I didn't know was the thing. But yeah, only in La. Yeah,
here you are.

Speaker 5 (45:12):
But you know, like, and I'm like, what are we
talking about? So in that moment, though, when they kept
coming at me with these tinfoil hat fears and bullshit,
the athletes were in the room and my road manager
of the year before was sitting by the hockey players,
and it got to the point that the hockey bros
were talking.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
To each other. They're like, with these idiots, just shut
the fuck up advocacy.

Speaker 5 (45:37):
In that moment, if I go at them harsh and
I got them with the same energy that they're coming
at me, it's that whole room's gonna be divisive. It's
going to be filled with you know, we don't know
where to go. We're going to tune it all out
because there's barriers communication. I'm not I was talking of

(45:58):
those people knowing full well that that ten percent those
people protesting me, fighting me, combating me on a whole
wide arrange array of issues. They weren't going to change
their opinions, and that's okay. The eighty percent that was
in the room now started critically thinking, and they went,
do I want to align myself with that tinfoil hat guy?

(46:20):
Or do I want to align myself with Brock? And
all of a sudden, all the athletes are coming up
to me, thanking me and apologizing me for those people.
So in that moment, advocacy worked. If I tried to
burn it down in that moment, that room's going to
be split so divided, nobody's going to know what to think.
So I figured out my role was, Hey, I can

(46:42):
stay calm and rational in those situations. There's times I
can burn it down, I know how. But I have
a way of talking to those people and staying patient
with them, knowing full well that I'm talking to everyone
else and that there's power in that. And that changes
things because now we have allies and that you know,
they're like, oh, it's twenty kids, Like what are we

(47:05):
talking about. They're acting like every kid's becoming trans or
furry or this or that, and it's like, no, it's not.
And their extreme situations and they're working with doctors, you know,
and so it's advocacy has a really big place in
my mind. And from there we can have the activists

(47:25):
when needed to come and really push the issue that
was fresh.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
I want to talk about the energy that is needed
to visit one hundred teams in one hundred days, because
we all know that we all want to do our part.
We all want to be advocates, we all want to
be activists. But when it comes to reality, when you're
having such a busy schedule, I call it an activism
fatigue where it's like, and you know this very well,
when you're just like, Okay, every day, I have this event,

(47:54):
I got to do this and this, and you've got
to be on right and then you're traveling on top
of all of that. Do you ever just get so
fatigued you're like, do I have to talk about gay
issues one more time? How do you keep your physical
and mental health going as well?

Speaker 5 (48:08):
I've made a massive sacrifice for the community where I
have bangs under my eyes and the entire community owes
me for that.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Go fund me You're fucking welcome.

Speaker 5 (48:24):
So it's and it's more than one hundred like it
was one hundred and hundred across Canada. I actually went
to one hundred and forty and eighty five days coast
to coast, I over twenty seven cities and then took
three days off and came to the US and started
doing it here.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
And year one hears right.

Speaker 5 (48:44):
Now and what's my work has evolved to the point
where it's not just for LGBTQ plus people, like it's
really become I've done something recently I talk I share
that story because that story that day about the hockey
player having the other hockey player do push ups.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
He's a shift maker that create a shift in one.

Speaker 5 (49:06):
Hundred hockey players where they start doing that, but create
a shift to me because of him, I realized the
impact I could have because of him. He's part of
the catalyst of me coming out. Because of him, I
do the work I do now, you know because of him.
Thousands of people have come to me over the years
who have been struggling in some cases in life and
dest situations and not even just LGBTQ plus related things,
and I've been able to get them support That guy

(49:28):
that day, that small little action, how to ripple effect
that saved lives.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
And this is what.

Speaker 5 (49:33):
I try and teach people, whether I'm in a corporate
gig or kids, that you can do something really small
and pick the topic. I don't care what it is, racism, homophobia,
misogynally able as a mental health, bullying, addiction, the environment,
whatever you're passionate about, you can create a small shift
for and that shift will change the world. And I

(49:54):
teach them how as humanized issues, when you put a face,
something becomes more real. Environment we create and I think
most people want to be good people, whether they are
or not, but they want to be and they think
they are. And I teach them, especially young people, like
with adults it's more about stats and facts and knowing
reality versus not. But also, and in particular with teenagers

(50:20):
and young adults, it's our language. And the easiest way
to ensure that you know you're not hurting somebody is
through your words. So I talking about five different types
of language. Direct language, which is bullying, indirect language. Laughter
is a form of language, and this happens even in
corporate culture. I'm like, why do you laugh? But more
in the locker room, why do you laugh? In somebody

(50:41):
is bullying? A teammate or says something really offensive, and
traditionally it's to fit in, because I might, what happens
if you didn't laugh, well, you'd be the odd person,
You'd be the next person targeted. I might, what if
nobody laughed like, it would stop. I'm like, so by
not laughing, you can shift your entire culture. I said,

(51:06):
but let's break this down even further. You laugh at
things you don't find funny. And in sports we call
ourselves a family or brothers or sisters some analogy like that.
You're laughing at things you don't find funny because you're
afraid your family is going to bully you.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
That's fucked up. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (51:21):
And then I go into body language as a formal
language in silence, and I told them a story. Last
year was a first year on the tour. A thirteen
year old boy comes up to me in tears. I'm like,
what's wrong?

Speaker 1 (51:32):
Man?

Speaker 5 (51:32):
He was brought him Jewish And last weekend some of
my teammates went to my hotel room and drew swastika's
on my hotel mayor. And he's like, you inspired me
to tell them how it made me feel? I said,
do you want to talk to him and he's like yeah,
I said all right. So the session was done. At
that point, everyone was gone. I grabbed the coach, I said,
coming to your next practice. So I worked with the

(51:54):
player and his mom and then went back in with
the team and he got to share. He got to
humanize the impact of that moment on him. But I
got to reinforce language and in particular silence, because three
players did up, but another seven stood around and watch.
And so we're sitting there and I'm like, I about
a month and a half ago, I said something either

(52:17):
during the laughter or the silence, about being brave, and
it's transformed everything I do because it's the language is great.
But as athletes, we call ourselves gladiators. Where we you know,
in hockey, we battle in the corner, we fight front
of the net, we take a hit to make a play,
we block shots.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
We're tough, we're courageous. Were brave. Athletes are tough, We're brave.
I'm like, is that brave? If you're laughing?

Speaker 5 (52:47):
And then when we got to this point, I'm like,
it's easy to stay what it's safe to stay quiet.
You're not the next person target if you stay quiet.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Is that brave is that.

Speaker 5 (52:56):
The integrity of the courage you all say you have
as athletes. And then the third way we creach shift
is breaking conformity. I can pick out a hockey player
anywhere I go. They dress the same, talk, say, mock
the same Mike, tell me something of you typically wouldn't
tell a teammate about you, and like, because you're talking
about four things, women, video games, hearting, sports, music, as
long as this rapper, country and women conform a little differently,

(53:19):
but similarly, I might tell me tell me something you
will typically tell a teammate.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
And I used to get surface level answers.

Speaker 5 (53:29):
I love cooking, I make grilled cheese cool, nobody gives
a shit, like genuinely, I'm like, you have two answers
in your head right now. I said, do you have
the surface level bullshit one and you have the brave one.
You'll know which one you gave me, and.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
So will I. They're sharing things. I've had six players
stand up.

Speaker 5 (53:50):
In front of their teammates in the last month and
a half and say, I tried to die by suicide.
This share but now coaches, now, now parents are finding out.
Now we're to get them support. I've had one player
stood up in tears and goes, He's a top score,
top player in.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
His age group across the country.

Speaker 5 (54:10):
And he goes, you guys make fun of me to
the point that I feel like I have no friends.
I'm going to quit the sport. I had two indigenous
players in a room. One stood up and said, I
pretend I'm okay with the jokes.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
I hate them.

Speaker 5 (54:21):
Another kid, he was on a different team but in
the same room, he goes, I feel the exact same way.
And then about two weeks later, a black kid said
the exact same thing. We're eating each other alive. And
if the sis straight white kids are doing it to
each other, what hope is there for the marginalized kid
in sport?

Speaker 1 (54:37):
You know what I mean? If they're all eating each
other alive.

Speaker 5 (54:41):
So this work has transformed beyond just LGBTQ plus, which
has made it even more exhausting. Like we used to
joke that, I had a coach come out to me
and say, I feel like it's like an episode of
ted Lasso. Like you talk to the kids, you share
your story and it's emotional, and then and you teach
them a lesson, and then they share and then I

(55:04):
see how they treat each other, and they treat each.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Other a lot better.

Speaker 5 (55:07):
But now there's like because they're sharing deeper and more powerful.
It's like ted Lasso meets euphoria, and it's like.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Like I had that pro baseball player.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
Two popular shows, by the way.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Shows, but like it goes. It's emotionally draining and I'm
doing like everything.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
That's what I mean. You take all of this energy
on what do you do to release it? To take
a breath of fresh air and keep your sanity.

Speaker 5 (55:34):
I'm at the gym every day, I'm meditating twice a day.
When their tours are done, I'm in therapy NonStop. Do
you know that your therapists can't see you out of
like in Canada, out of province, so I can't even
do like virtual.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Sessions gloom or something.

Speaker 5 (55:53):
They it's illegal for them only certain provinces. He can
see me, and he can't see me while I'm in
the States, and I'm like.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
To only do them because I get a little touchy feeling. Yea,
I didn't know that. Yeah, I did not know that,
So I.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Was like shit, So I can't even do like talk
to a therapist right now. But like my Romangarin. He
sat me down.

Speaker 5 (56:17):
He's like, you need to talk to people because the
stuff you're taking on, especially this yeah, like he would
send the corner and cry and he's this macho professional
athlete and he's sobbing and and I'm like consoling these kids.
I had a player tell me about his little brother
dying and finding him and he's telling his teammates who
are friends with this kid, and I'm like, and I

(56:40):
have no idea what they're going to say, right like,
I'm up there, I'm sure. And then on the spot
have to like, like, uh, A girl last night looks
at me and goes, she's on a team of panomly boys,
and she in front of her teammates goes, I feel
like my teammates hate me because they think I suck
and I don't belong on the team.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
And she's in tears.

Speaker 5 (56:59):
And to validate her and make her feel good and
also kind of call them out without calling them out,
and show them the impact they're having on their teammate
and in the moment, in the moment, not knowing what
they're gonna say. It's improv I'm improving, I'm a comedian,
I'm serious, I'm dad, I'm this and that to all

(57:19):
these kids, young adults across North America, and it's like like,
literally I sleep on tour. I got a little more
last night, but typically about three and a half four
hours a night for about five six months at a time.
I go the gym twice today just to like release something.

(57:40):
And it's hard. It's so difficult, and it's it's worth
it because I'm seeing the impact and kids' lives are
being saved. But at the same time, it's like, like,
you know, I try not to think about it.

Speaker 4 (58:00):
We yeah, there needs to be more of you so
that you're not carrying that whole bird. I'm blown away
really that I want to say, like, I'm so happy
that you're talking about getting self care, but people don't
understand what an impact that has on people that are
carrying the weight, you know, And I really, I really
appreciate you, and I thank you because it is more

(58:24):
important that it's not just LGBTQ plus. But but you
also can't be the expert on everybody's experience. And I
hear what you're saying that you're not you know, you're
not claiming that you're the expert on everybody's experience. It's
a human it's a human experience that you're that you're
bringing with you.

Speaker 5 (58:39):
What I've done is I've socially re engineered the way
they look at toughness, that it's tough to share, that
it's brave to share, and then create a psychologically safe
space where they can and from there, I can provide
resources and tools like in fact, people come from a
sexual assault, different things I've been struggling and get them

(59:02):
survivors groups or different things when they come to me,
or guide parents or coaches or different things to resources.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
But I don't have to be their full time resource.

Speaker 5 (59:14):
So I'm opening the conversation so that they can take
it to the actual professionals to get them feeling good,
because if they're feeling good, they're gonna be less likely
to be oppressive to others.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
And I had to learn early on. I went.

Speaker 5 (59:28):
I started when I first came out. I was going
to schools, predominantly, schools were calling me across Canada and
kids were coming to me and they still do. They're
in my DMS and they're like, I'm self harming. I
want to die, Da da da da, And this happens
like that's my DMS every.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
Day and.

Speaker 5 (59:48):
I was like, whoa, and it was bringing up all
my stuff. So I had to go back to therapy
and I said to my therapist, I said, how do
you do this?

Speaker 1 (59:59):
How do you go home.

Speaker 5 (01:00:00):
At night and not carry the burden of everyone ship
with you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Or dumping on your partner too totally?

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:00:09):
And fortunately for my partner, I'm on the road six
months a year, so it doesn't have to see that's
the best relationship.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
By the way, I'll sell you once or twice a year.

Speaker 5 (01:00:16):
Yeah, it's great and we just got engaged. It's wonderful. Congratulations, thanks,
great story. It has to do with Elizabeth Taylor randomly,
but are you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Listening to radiator? I love Taylor.

Speaker 5 (01:00:28):
She got engaged in Toronto, which the first time with
Bertha she ran away from.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
She married H. W. Reynolds, Eddie Fisher, Eddie.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Fisher, trust me on my Elizabeth Taylor.

Speaker 5 (01:00:39):
So my partner's favorite celebrity is Elizabeth Taylor.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
So every day at four pm, her maybox would pull
up at the abbey. They would wheel her out in
her wheelchair. She sometimes have a Yeah, she would have
her two martinis dirty martinis, huge martinis, by the way,
and every day at four pm, and it's like, can't
be So if you go to the abbey, now there's
a beautiful picture because of course she was doing AIDS
advocacy and hang around gay boy and you would see

(01:01:08):
her wheel.

Speaker 5 (01:01:11):
So my partner, we were at a dinner party at
a restaurant and we found out it's where they got engaged.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 5 (01:01:18):
So I brought him there for his birthday and I
didn't have a ring because he works for Cardier, and
I was like, I if I go in and get
a ring, he's gonna know. So and I got I
called the restaurant. I was like, hey, I need the
table they got engaged at, and they gave me the
whole room.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
That's amazing. So we're sitting there another movie but Jesus,
So we're.

Speaker 5 (01:01:42):
Sitting there and there's a picture of them engaged right above.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Us, and he looks at me and goes, you know, I
want to get Marrison.

Speaker 5 (01:01:49):
And we've been together eight years and he's like, you know,
I want to get married, and I'm like, I don't know, Matt,
Like things are so.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Good, why would we fuck it up with marriage like things.
Things are great, like.

Speaker 5 (01:01:57):
Let's not move and the whole time, I have a
card and at the end I hand him the card
and I go and he ordered a second or third
martini because I kept like gaslighting him, and I slide
the card over and he's opening it up and it
says to my husband and I'm like, sorry, they didn't
have a common law card.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
I just completely gasoled him.

Speaker 5 (01:02:17):
And then he's like he starts opening it up and
there's a piece of paper in it, like like printing paper.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Folded up and he's like, is this tickets to something?
And I'm like, just open it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:28):
And while he was opening I snuck around to the
other side of the table and he's unfolding it and
there's the picture of the ring I knew he wanted.
And by the time he went what and he looked
over and I was on a knee, and yeah, so
it was. It was a cool moment. But stuff like
that gets me through, Yeah, you know what I mean,
like having a supportive partner, having my partner's younger brother

(01:02:52):
passed away a few years ago, and he took a
leave from work and life essentially and came on the
road with me and he saw it all firsthand. I
don't take him on the road anymore because he came
to like five high schools and we're sitting there and
every time there would be a Q and A kids
would ask me do you have a boyfriend?

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
And I'd be like, yeah, he's sitting over there, and.

Speaker 5 (01:03:12):
He would like kind of sheepishly wave and I do
a little mean green after, and he'd have a longer
line than I would. My kid like, what do you do? Oh? Yeah,
So I'm like, you're not coming anymore, but he goes
the People's Princess. They just then he said that. Then
the next day, the People's Princess. The next day, we're

(01:03:34):
sitting there and the same thing. Kid asks and I
point at him and he goes like this.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
He goes. My jaw hit the floor and I was like,
are you serious?

Speaker 5 (01:03:45):
And sure enough, bigger line again. So now I leave
him at home. He's he's at home with the dog
and I just travel.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
We certainly need to have a follow up conversation because
we could literally talk and I didn't even get to
half of these questions. I have to thank you for
everything that you're doing. Could use a little bit more
thirst traps on Instagram. I'll be honest, but thank you
for everything else.

Speaker 5 (01:04:06):
So if you watch my videos, my note, but here's
what I do. Because I work, I skew the lines
of wanting to be thirst trappy for the gays and
also having to go into rooms with young teenagers where
you know, if they see me as a sexual DV
and I'm not getting any.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
In the room.

Speaker 5 (01:04:29):
So if you watch the videos and you watch my
workouts in the videos, they do enough.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Their'st trappy.

Speaker 5 (01:04:36):
I think they could be a little more maybe, but
but they're thirst trapping enough.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
Sure enough is the right word. But like there's some
there's there's I give a little tease, just a little taste.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
It's when we were in kids and the adult Chad
would always be like.

Speaker 5 (01:04:54):
Yes, yes, exactly, yeah, And that's kind of what I'm
giving because I I have to.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
Make sure that I'm a good boy.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
The movie version will be a little bit more explicit.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Better me. We're getting a movie deal right now.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
I mean everything you've said is a movie scene. I'm like,
I could like vision.

Speaker 5 (01:05:13):
So if you're watching, yeah, hit me up because we're
making a movie.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
Brockett has been an absolute, absolute Joy. Can you tell
our audience where they can find and follow you?

Speaker 5 (01:05:22):
Yeah, they can find me on social media. You can
find my semi thirst traps at Brock mcgullas thirty three
on Instagram and TikTok, and my website is Brock mcguillis
dot com where you can email me if you need
to talk or need anything at all.

Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
Every time I say it that I'm Gon Brock, miguelis like,
I just keep wanting to do that's farthest from you.
But it's like like, don't do.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
It, don't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
Nice to do it?

Speaker 5 (01:05:44):
You can do I'm I right, I'm very irish.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
So, Michael, where can people find and follow you and
find out more about out athlete Funds well.

Speaker 4 (01:05:53):
On Instagram at athlete find that, I'm Michael dot Ferira.
But uh, but definitely, you know, encouraging people to got
to add Athlete fund and and get ready for the
Olympics in a couple of years. But we're going to
start with Pride Houses during World Cup and you know,
between now and the Olympics, trying to build that brand
because it is an international movement and we're trying to
blow it up here with the Los Angeles treatment as
we do. But it's an incredible movement and it's going

(01:06:15):
to help what Brock's doing because it's giving more athletes
the avenue to come out and be themselves and to
meet other athletes so that they have their own safe
spaces and inclusion spaces.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
So yeah, also, I'm expecting an invite Pride hosts. Yes,
we're going to talk.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Well, that's it, folks. You never know what we're going
to talk about because we talk about it all every
week here on the Rocks. Big thank you to our
station owner Tony Sweet and our lovely intern running our
show today. What was your name again?

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
No, loved your arc. Okay, please like, share, subscribe so
we can continue bringing this fabulous show coming your way
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and if you drink, stay tipsy. We'll see you next week.
This has been another episode of On the Rocks. Tweet
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(01:07:07):
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