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July 12, 2024 16 mins

In this episode, James explores an Upworthy article, "A helpful chart to explain the difference between support and 'toxic positivity'
Can positivity be “toxic”? "By Sarah Schuster

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:36):
yeah.
Welcome, welcome, welcome.
Welcome to the Parents Making ProfitsShow, the world's number one podcast for
parents who are entrepreneurs, helpingthem be the best parentpreneurs they can
be.
I'm James Oliver Jr., co -founder of theWorld's Cutest Twins, founder of the
Parentpreneur Foundation, and CEO ofCabilla, which connects overlook founders
to capital, co -founders, and community.

(00:58):
And I'm the author of the book, The MoreYou Hustle, The Luckier You Get.
You can be a successful parentpreneuravailable at Amazon.
What is going on everybody?
I missed y 'all.
It's been a minute.
I've been, like many of y 'all, I've beenhead down busy doing the damn thing,
right?
So that's what's going on over here.
I've talked a little bit about what I'mworking on in the past, so no need to get

(01:20):
into today unless you haven't listened tome before, but you know, I'm over here,
you know, raising money to help overlookfounders.
Just put it like that, all right?
That's what we're doing.
So look.
Today's topic is inspired by an upworthyarticle I found called, A Helpful Chart to
Explain the Difference Between Support andToxic Positivity.

(01:43):
Can Positivity Be Toxic by Sarah Schuster?
And the title of this episode is, Is ToxicPositivity Really Toxic?
So I think most of us would agree thatit's important to be positive, right?
I like to say what you appreciateappreciates.
Or in other words, what you focus onexpands.

(02:06):
So it's better to get more positiveoutcomes than negative ones, right?
So here's a great quote from the articleand I'll link to it in the show notes
naturally.
But I this was really good.
It says, says, perhaps counterintuitively, positivity isn't always the
best way to help others.
You can't make someone be positive.

(02:26):
You can't sprinkle positivity dust on themand make their problems go away.
And honestly, when people are seeking helpand support, they're usually not looking
for straight up inspirational posterpositivity.
More often, they're looking for validationthat their negative feelings are okay.
That makes sense to me.

(02:48):
So, know, then the article has a greatchart from the at sit with it Instagram
account, which shows eight differencesbetween what it describes as validation
and hope.
versus toxic positivity.
So real quick, I'm just gonna read througheach one of them and react to them in the

(03:09):
moment.
I already skimmed them, but hadn't formeda lot of deep thoughts about it.
I just wanted to kind of go with myvisceral reaction to them and riff on that
and keen to get your thoughts naturallyabout what you're thinking about them.
I'll give you my LinkedIn profile in theshow notes and would love to connect with

(03:30):
you
Just let me know what you think about it,right?
So here's the first one.
It's a first example of validation andhope.
Someone might say to you, if you're havinga hard time, they might say, this is hard.
You've done hard things before and Ibelieve in you.
Like that feels good to me if I was havinga hard time.

(03:50):
Like, I'm raising a venture fund.
It's hard.
Startup founder, it's hard.
Previously a single dad of twins.
was really hard.
know, thankfully, I'm married now.
It was hard.
Shout out to my wife.
She's amazing.
She's listening to this.
So I always get brownie points when I dothat.
Right, Alright, so validation.

(04:12):
The hope is this is hard.
You've done hard things before and Ibelieve in you versus what they're
describing as toxic positivity.
You'll get over it.
Like, that does not feel good.
Like, if that feels good to you, pleaselike connect with me on LinkedIn.
And tell me why that feels good to you.
I don't, that does not feel good to me.

(04:33):
You'll get over it.
Look, I'm Gen X and I'm, you know, as rawdog as they come and that does not feel
good to me.
So the second one is I know there's a lotthat could go wrong.
What could go right?
And man, I love that question because Ifeel like a lot of times we, me, I, you

(04:54):
know, we'll focus on, you know, somethingcould go wrong.
Something could go wrong.
Well, damn it.
What if it went right?
What would it look like if things wentright?
What could go right?
I love that question.
Toxic positivity would be, just bepositive.
Like, wait, what?
Like, that easy to just flip a switch,completely ignore your feelings?

(05:17):
Not feeling that one either.
All vibes are welcome here.
That's the validation and hope response.
All vibes are welcome here.
I like
Kind of feeling that, feels inclusive,right?
If you're inclusivity, inclusion, I kindof am.
All vibes welcome, well, except negativevibes, right?
Toxic positivity, good vibes only.

(05:39):
Well, I don't know.
What if I'm kind of in my feelings aboutsomething, processing something that
happened that I'm dealing with that'shard.
So my vibes are not the best today.
They're not like super terrible, butthey're not, I wouldn't describe them as
good.
does that mean?
I'm not included.
can't come to your good vibes only party.

(06:00):
Like, whatever, like keep your good vibesonly party.
So I'm not feeling that one either.
You feeling that one?
Can't wait to hear your thoughts aboutthis.
It's pretty normal to have some negativityin this situation.
That's the validation and hope comment.
It's pretty normal to have some negativityin this situation.

(06:21):
You know?
I feel like there's a lot of empathy in acomment like that is recognizing that this
is a hard situation somebody might begoing through and you realize that, I
could see how you might be feelingnegative in that situation.
We don't want people to stay there,obviously, but you know, we're human and
empathy matters.
The toxic positivity response, stop beingso negative.

(06:43):
Well, again, if it were that easy in a lotof cases,
you know, we wouldn't be negative.
So yeah, we don't want to be negative, butjust saying that, stop being so negative,
it doesn't feel good to me.
Does that feel good to you?
It does not feel good to me.
Number five, validation and hope response.

(07:09):
It's probably pretty hard to be positiveright now.
I'm putting out good energy into the worldfor you.
I love that, right?
hard to be positive, putting out goodenergy in the world for you.
Yeah, I love that.
That feels empathetic for me.
Toxic positivity, think happy thoughts.

(07:33):
You know, I think I've talked about thisbefore.
So as part of my ParentpreneurialFoundation, we have a man, Pastor Amos
Johnson, Church for Entrepreneurs, really,really great guy.
Christian pastor, if you're into that, youknow, check out Church of Entrepreneurs.
I think he changed it now into the faithcommunity on, on, on Spotify has a
podcast, really great.

(07:53):
I listen to it every day.
One of the things that he says that Ifound to be so true is that you can't
fight negative thoughts with thoughts.
So just to say, think happy thoughts, it'snot going to work.
If you have a negative thoughts, in myexperience, thinking positive thoughts.
do not cancel, it does not cancel out thenegative thoughts.

(08:14):
Like I literally have to say the truthabout whatever the situation is out loud.
Like if I'm from quote unquote worryingabout money, know, I learned this from
Pastor Amos, you know, I say, you know,God is my shepherd.
I lack nothing.
I say that over and over and over and overand over again until a negative thought

(08:37):
gets out of my head.
and then all is right in the world interms of how I feel about things.
think happy thoughts is a whole no for me.
Another validation and hope comment.
Sometimes giving up is okay.
What is your ideal outcome?
So.

(08:59):
You know, I'm gonna read the toxicpositivity response to that and then give
you my thoughts on that.
So toxic positivity is never give up.
Well, yeah, sometimes, you know, so look,I am in the 99th percentile of persistent
and resilient people on the planet and Idon't quit.
And sometimes that's, it's a blessing anda curse, right?

(09:20):
Like my first startup, WeMontage, I shutit down a couple of years ago.
I mean, I ran that thing for like 10years.
I should have shut it
probably three, four years before then.
you know, yeah, sometimes knowing when toquit is just the right thing to do.
You know, what is your ideal outcome?

(09:42):
I love that question.
And then think about like, so, you know,what happens if you fail, right?
So I was talking with one of my mentorsand advisors the other day
I was having a little anxiety aboutsomething and he asked me a great
question.
He's like, is this anxiety being put onyou?

(10:03):
Are you putting it on yourself?
And I realized I was actually putting iton myself and he said, well, take that
crap off.
He didn't say crap.
He said the S word, but take that crapoff.
And I was like, yeah, I'm taking that crapoff.
And immediately I felt so much better.
But the thing was he asked me, said, sowhat happens if you fail?

(10:24):
He said, they can't kill you and theycan't eat you.
So, you know, sometimes it's okay to stopdoing something and move on to something
else.
This is me really talking to myself morethan I'm talking to any of y 'all
listening right now.
But, you know, it's okay to move onsometimes.
Just never give up.
Yeah, I don't know, right?
Sometimes you can't spend 30 years bangingyour head against the wall on something,

(10:47):
especially if it's a startup, right?
That just does not make sense.
At some point you need to make anassessment.
Like, do I need to move on to somethingelse after a couple of pivots?
You can't just keep grinding forever onsomething.
It just doesn't really make sense.
All right, validation and hope.
I think this is number seven.
It's never fun to feel like that.
Is there something we can do today thatyou'd enjoy?

(11:08):
All right, and the toxic positivityresponse to that is just be happy.
man, that doesn't even make any sensewhatsoever.
Like just be happy, like get out myfeelings.
Like, no, like I feel like, you know,going to a therapist, like I get these,
you know, mental tips and tools andresources to, manage my feelings and

(11:31):
identify these things.
And like that thing I told you, I do theaffirmation that I got from Pastor Amos.
It's not just as simple as just beinghappy.
Sometimes you have to manage yourself and,and, have some tools and resources
to get in a better head space.
It's just not always that simple.
So that just be happy is a no for me.

(11:52):
It doesn't feel good to me at all.
And finally, last validation and hopepoint.
It's probably really hard to see any goodin this situation.
We'll make sense of it all later.
Okay, sometimes things are hard and, youknow, empathizing with people is great and

(12:13):
also.
Also, we know that sometimes in a moment,we can't understand a thing, but a couple
days later, which is why it's good to siton things sometimes if you can, or down
the road, you're like, okay, that was areally hard experience, but I see how that
made sense or how that prepared me for Xtoday, to be better at X today.

(12:33):
And the toxic positivity response is, seethe good in everything.
Yeah, but the problem with that is itignores, you
your feelings in the moment.
And I'm not, look, I'm not a big feelingsguy.
Maybe I sound like I am on this episodeand my wife probably nodding her head
going, yeah, he's not a big feelings guyat all.

(12:54):
She'd be like, he ain't got no feelings.
That's not true, baby.
You know that's not true.
But yeah, I'm not a big feelings guy, youcan't, yeah, that just does not feel good
to me.
I don't like it.
So, you know, the article closes withthis.
When you're supporting someone who'shurting,
We need to leave room for positivity togrow.

(13:15):
And you don't just yell at a flower tojust grow, you water it.
In this case, you water it with listening,with validation, and with unconditional
support.
It's okay to experience negative emotions.
And with support, we can help people whoare stuck in negativity find their way
out.

(13:35):
Simply telling them to be positive doesn'tcut it, right?
Amen.
That's a whole amen for me.
I think all the toxic positivityresponses, I mean, in total and in some
cases individually, I think they're toxic.

(13:57):
I think they're trash.
I wouldn't feel good somebody just tellingme those things and disregarding how I'm
feeling about things and not consideringwhat some of my triggers are, my past
experiences, because I'm processing myfeelings in that moment through those
experiences and through those triggers.
So yeah, toxic positivity is toxic.
It's whack.

(14:17):
Would love to know what you think.
Again, I'm going to drop my LinkedInprofile in the show notes.
Yeah, connect with me and let me know whatyou think.
I'm really keen to get your thoughts.
So all right.
So where is someone a new platform here?
So I'm looking for my new sound effects.
Here we go.
All right.
It's time for my favorite part of theshow, the dad jokes, right?

(14:42):
So I think I told you my kids listen tothe dad jokes.
my podcast when I'm picking them up fromschool.
So I gotta come correct with the dadjokes.
And obviously I think it's a good dadjoke, so I'm not gonna give it the old,
you know, sad trombone.
That's not gonna happen.
Cause I picked the joke, right?
Obviously, duh.
So listen, all right.

(15:02):
So here's a joke.
Why doesn't James Bond fart in bed?
Why doesn't James Bond fart in bed?
My wife's gonna hate this joke.
I fart in bed a lot.
Can't believe I said that.
Why doesn't James Bond fart in bed?
Because it will blow his cover.

(15:26):
Yes.
Absolutely, that's a good one, right?
Love that.
100%, love that joke.
All right, man, so that's it.
Real quick, that was a quick one.
You know, it's toxic positivity, reallytoxic.
Would love to get your thoughts aboutthat.
We're roll this outro music and get out ofhere until next time.
So look, you know, we know you like theshow, cause you're still listening.

(15:49):
So please subscribe, follow and rate it.
And follow me on Twitter, X or whateverthe hell that is, at James Oliver Jr.,
JamesOliverJR.
connect with me on LinkedIn.
I'll drop my link in the show notes here,click on it.
And please, like, if you send me aconnection request, please put a note that
you heard me on the podcast, because I'm alittle bit of a LinkedIn snob and people

(16:10):
be trying to connect with me.
Hey, we both breathe oxygen, let'sconnect.
And I'm like, nah, because again, I'm GenX and I'm like, nah.
But I do want to hear from you.
So please send me a connection request andput a note that you heard me on the
podcast
Tell me what you think about some of thesetoxic positivity comments and validation
and hope.

(16:30):
Love to get your thoughts.
I appreciate you so much.
Have a wonderful day.
Be blessed.
Later.
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