240 | It’s Not About the Toys: The Power of the Therapeutic Relationship in CCPT

In this episode of the Play Therapy Podcast, I answer two thoughtful questions from Mikayla, a graduate student and new play therapist in Illinois. Mikayla asks whether child-centered play therapy (CCPT) will still work if she doesn’t have a fully stocked playroom and whether the approach can be effective even when she feels she’s still learning. I reassure her that while having a variety of toys is helpful, children will use whatever materials are available to express themselves and work through their issues. It’s the therapeutic relationship, not the toys, that is the heart of CCPT.

I also address her concerns about technical application, emphasizing that none of us apply the CCPT model perfectly all the time — and that’s okay! The most important element is maintaining the child-centered relationship and trusting the process. If you focus on being present, using reflective responses, and practicing the core be-with attitudes, you are on the right path.

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Common References:
Cochran, N., Nordling, W., & Cochran, J. (2010). Child-Centered Play Therapy (1st ed.). Wiley.
VanFleet, R., Sywulak, A. E., & Sniscak, C. C. (2010). Child-centered play therapy. Guilford Press.
Landreth, G.L. (2023). Play Therapy: The Art of the Relationship (4th ed.). Routledge.
Bratton, S. C., Landreth, G. L., Kellam, T., & Blackard, S. R. (2006). Child parent relationship therapy (CPRT) treatment manual: A 10-session filial therapy model for training parents. Routledge/Taylor & Francis Group.
Benedict, Helen. Themes in Play Therapy. Used with permission to Heartland Play Therapy Institute.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
Your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
Hi, I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks, The Kid Counselor.
This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get a master class in child-centered,
play therapy and practical support and application for
your work with children and their families.
In today's episode. I am answering a question. Actually, two questions from

(00:23):
Mikayla in Illinois.
Mikayla.
Thank you for the email and nice to hear from someone in Chicago.
Actually, I just had another email from Chicago on a few episodes ago. So
I guess Chicago is kind of a hub of CCPT these days. That's exciting.
All right. So two questions from
Mikayla and I'll read a little bit of her email and then both questions and we'll dive in

(00:46):
before I get into that.
I'm excited to report that quite a few of you have RSVP for or registered,
I suppose for the live podcast event.
I just checked numbers
and we already have quite a few registered.
So, really looking forward to that if you have not done so yet,
January 3rd at 2 p.m. Eastern,
please hop on. But you will need to register and the link will be in the show notes.

(01:08):
So please make sure that you have a Zoom account
and that you are able to get registered for that.
And then we'll know how many will be there and I'll be able
to gauge a little bit more how to structure that hour together.
All righty. So
let's hear a little bit from
Mikayla. And then we'll dive into the questions
I wanted to reach out and say thank you for your podcast.
I'm sure you get a ton of emails like this. I do, but I'm always grateful for them

(01:32):
to share my journey.
I'm a graduate MSW student in a clinical therapy internship in the Chicago suburbs.
I wasn't a quote kid person and have virtually no experience with them.
Isn't it funny how God directs our paths?
But I wanted to be open to kids as the new intern.
I started working with two kids aged eight
and in preparation was so clueless that I took to the internet.

(01:53):
Like all gen Z students were taught
and Googled child therapy models.
I found CCPT as one of the first options and really liked what I saw.
Then I found your podcast shortly thereafter and started listening constantly.
It made so much sense and it wasn't easy, but it was simple.
And isn't that the truth? It is not easy, but it is simple.
I've been in my internship about three months now and I

(02:15):
have exclusively been learning and practicing CCPT with my young friends.
Congratulations Mikayla. I am so happy for you.
I share it with my colleagues and now tell all my children's
parents about your podcast as a resource during my intake sessions.
I explain the model to parents now as well and I might
begin to market myself as someone who uses this specific approach.
High five over the airwaves.

(02:36):
I'm really turning into a kid therapist. Yes,
I feel the social work advocate in me coming out as I advocate for their right
to autonomy and value in having safe spaces
where they are unconditionally loved and accepted.
I also wanna say I love CCPT because
it aligns with my spiritual religious values as a Christian
finding the CCPT model was so validating for me to

(02:58):
find something that aligned with both my clinical and spiritual values.
And I echo that 100%.
All right. So I have a few questions on CCPT. The first.
Does this model still work if I don't have the range of toys in the categories?
I work in an agency with basic board games, legos and coloring books.
I always start my kids with saying you're in charge,

(03:19):
you can choose what you do for today.
But I don't have any of the toys that fall
into the categories and themes you describe or a playroom.
Will the model still work
short answer? Yes.
So let's dive into this a little bit
it is actually quite common
to not have a fully equipped playroom
to be in a very small space that was

(03:42):
an afterthought, you know, oh,
you can have this janitor's closet and I'm not making that up.
I've actually had clinicians that have let me know that they
were given a janitor's closet to make into their playroom.
And
in many environments there is not a fully
equipped playroom that there is not a permanent playroom
and or it's not

(04:03):
fully functional in the way of having the three categories broadly represented.
And all of the things that we would like to see.
However,
the beauty of children and their play
is that they will use
what they have.
In other words, whatever they do have access to, they will make it work.

(04:23):
Let me tell a really quick story because I think this will illustrate the point.
I don't know how often I've talked about this,
but I taught English in Honduras for
quite a few summers
and I would say
a large chunk of my heart is still there.
I have such a special place in my heart for Honduras
and the people and the country and the culture and all of it.

(04:46):
So really, really special to me.
And I have vivid memories and we were in very rural, mountainous, small villages,
no electricity,
no
plumbing.
The water literally was piped with a pump straight from the river to the showerhead
and you could only wash like one part of you at

(05:08):
a time because the water was so cold you like,
didn't want to be in the stream of water.
You could not flush toilet paper. There was no electricity.
We ate off of the land around us.
I mean, it was about as poor third world, rural,
mountainous village that you can imagine.
And I'm telling you that to say

(05:28):
the very first time that we pulled into this town, by the way,
if any of you are from Honduras or have been to Honduras,
it was the tiny little town of Conchas.
And we pull in
and these are extremely impoverished families,
dirt floors,
ramshackle huts,

(05:48):
many without solid roof on the home,
just as poor as poor gets.
And kids had found an old bike rim.
So think of a bike tire,
the old rim.
So you know that the tire was long flat and ruined, so removed from the frame

(06:09):
and they had two sticks and they were running barefoot down the dirt road,
rolling the tire rim,
holding two sticks so that they could keep the tire balanced
as they chased it down the hill and it rolled.
And I remember thinking I was not a play therapist at the time.
Well, I had never even heard of play therapy

(06:30):
and I remember thinking
kids will come up with ways to play
no matter how little they have.
And then another illustration that I think about is when you give a child, a present
and they play with the box more than they play with the toy.
You know, like you get a new refrigerator
and they will play in that refrigerator box for eight weeks

(06:53):
because it can be a fort and a rocket ship and an airplane and a boat and whatever else.
And you go, why do I buy toys when they will just have so much fun with this box?
It's creative imaginative play and it's making do with what is available.
So those are my two stories to illustrate my point, Mikayla.
I promise, I'm circling back.
You said you have board games, Legos and coloring books,

(07:16):
not very much at all,
but
in the child-centered model,
it's about the relationship anyway,
which that's actually going to be a big part of my answer to your second question.
So I won't jump ahead,
but we know it's about the relationship.
We know it's about the autonomy and the freedom
and

(07:37):
the child can choose to color.
The child can choose to play games or the child can choose to build with legos.
And if you say you can play with the toys in
most of the ways that you want and you're in charge,
that is very clear that the child will do what they need to do.
If they need to be imaginative or creative, they'll likely play with legos.

(07:58):
If they need safe structured activities,
they will likely gravitate toward board games.
If they kind of want a hybrid of both. They might color,
they might do something else entirely.
They might pick up markers and drum on the table.
They might find a piece of paper,
wadded up and use it as a ball and throw it against the wall and catch it.

(08:19):
Kids are wired to play
and they will play with
what they have access to. Now,
I don't know what
your
capabilities are in the way of adding some things to the room.
I would absolutely, even if it's at your own expense,
I would add some things. Even if you have to bring them in and then take them back out.

(08:41):
Get a really large Rubbermaid container,
go to the dollar store,
go to thrift stores, go to garage sales
and at a very low cost, start accumulating
some of the things from the three categories
and then you can put them out and take them back if they
can't stay in the room or they can stay in the room.

(09:02):
And even if you spend $20, $25, $30 to get some other stuff in there,
it will absolutely bring value.
It will be money well spent
and your children will benefit from it.
But even if you are unwilling or unable to do that
with what you have in there,
it is more about the relationship and it is
more about your language with them in the room

(09:23):
than what they're actually able to do.
So I would say yes, absolutely.
The model will still work.
OK.
So second question, I'm an intern and I am of course,
still learning a ton on how to do therapy in general.
And this model specifically
will the approach still work without a perfect technical application from me.
I'm trying to be open and trust the process and tell parents to trust the process.

(09:47):
But I do wonder if I'm actually doing what I think I'm doing
and if I should be confident in that or change my therapeutic approach.
All right. Well,
you probably know me, you say you listen to my podcast pretty religiously.
So, you know,
I'm not going to advocate that you change your therapeutic approach at all.
100% all in CCPT.
However,

(10:08):
you are trying to be open and trust the process. That's what you need to do.
It's what is a necessity in this scenario
and you communicate that to parents as well.
I wonder if I'm actually doing what I think I'm doing well.
I'm not sure what you think you're doing.
But
I will say this
if you think

(10:29):
that you are all in on CCPT
and you are building and maintaining and preserving a relationship
with your clients
and you are staying adherent to the model as much as you know it.
If you think that's what you're doing,
then you absolutely trust the process
and
you are patient

(10:50):
and will this still work, work without a perfect technical application for me.
Let's be really clear and really real.
There is not a one of us myself included
that has a perfect technical application of this model at
every minute of every session that we have with kids,
not a one of us.
So are there varying degrees of imperfection among us? I'm sure.

(11:15):
But none of us are perfect at this
and we don't have to be
because the clinical matters, the skills are important.
But at the end of the day,
the relationship trumps all.
So we work on that and that alone,
the easiest ways to do that.
Your three reflective responses,
your five be-with attitudes,

(11:36):
you keep those in mind
and you will be on track,
you will be adherent,
you will build and maintain and preserve the relationship
and the child will self actualize because the child
will want to become a better version of themselves.
So absolutely,
the model works even without perfect technical application from you

(11:58):
because if it required perfect technical application,
none of us would have any success with our clients.
But over and over and over again,
we watch the transformations take place in front of our eyes.
So it is more about the relationship than anything else, Mikayla focus on that.
The relationship is the most important piece of what we do.

(12:21):
You
stay really, really clearly attuned to that,
the things that we want to see happen will happen.
Mikayla. Thank you. So much for the question.
I hope that that was helpful for all of you. Actually, both questions
and we are always trying to keep in mind
through every single day, every single hour in a playroom.

(12:44):
We're trying to keep in mind
why we do this
even with our imperfection, even with our lack of toys,
even with our confusion and unknown of what we should be
doing or shouldn't be doing or saying or not saying?
Or do I even have any idea what's going on right now
in the midst of all of that,
we're doing this to provide a space for kids

(13:08):
that need to be unconditionally loved and accepted
the relationship,
the environment,
the time, the tools and the opportunity.
If those are present,
the miraculous change takes place
and that is why we trust the process because we know that that is true.

(13:28):
So if we remind ourselves of that,
we can get through a lot of unknown.
All right, love you all so much. We'll talk again soon. Bye.
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr
Brenna Hicks. For more episodes and resources.
Please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.