June 3, 2025 • 21 mins
In this episode of the CCPT Mindset series, I unpack the “myth of the therapeutic agenda” and how even well-intentioned goals can lead us away from true child-centeredness. It’s easy to think we’re being helpful when we hope for insight, change, or breakthroughs—but these hopes can quietly become agendas that introduce pressure, control, and a loss of presence in the playroom.
I walk through the signs of hidden agendas, how they show up in subtle ways, and why CCPT requires a radical trust in the model, the child, and the process. I also challenge you to reflect on your own thoughts after sessions—especially moments of frustration or disappointment—and how they might reveal unconscious expectations. At the heart of this episode is a powerful reminder: our worth as CCPTs is not measured by what happens in the playroom, but by our willingness to stay present in what is.
Join me on Saturday 21 June 2025 12:00 PM - 1:30 PM (UTC+10) for the APPTA hosted webinar on the topic of: The Impact of Technology In and Out of the Playroom. Please note the time zone difference... for the US, this will be Friday, June 20th @ 10pm EST.
PlayTherapyNow.com is my HUB for everything I do! playtherapynow.com. Sign up for my email newsletter, stay ahead with the latest CCPT CEU courses, personalized coaching opportunities and other opportunities you need to thrive in your CCPT practice. If you click one link in these show notes, this is the one to click!
If you would like to ask me questions directly, check out www.ccptcollective.com, where I host two weekly Zoom calls filled with advanced CCPT case studies and session reviews, as well as member Q&A. You can take advantage of the two-week free trial to see if the CCPT Collective is right for you.
Ask Me Questions: Call (813) 812-5525, or email: brenna@thekidcounselor.com
Brenna's CCPT Hub: https://www.playtherapynow.com
CCPT Collective (online community exclusively for CCPTs): https://www.ccptcollective.com
Podcast HQ: https://www.playtherapypodcast.com
APT Approved Play Therapy CE courses: https://childcenteredtraining.com
Twitter: @thekidcounselor https://twitter.com/thekidcounselor
Facebook: https://facebook.com/playtherapypodcast
Common References:
Cochran, N., Nordling, W., & Cochran, J. (2010). Child-Centered Play Therapy (1st ed.). Wiley.
VanFleet, R., Sywulak, A. E., & Sniscak, C. C. (2010). Child-centered play therapy. Guilford Press.
Landreth, G.L. (2023). Play Therapy: The Art of the Relationship (4th ed.). Routledge.
Bratton, S. C., Landreth, G. L., Kellam, T., & Blackard, S. R. (2006). Child parent relationship therapy (CPRT) treatment manual: A 10-session filial therapy model for training parents. Routledge/Taylor & Francis Group.
Benedict, Helen. Themes in Play Therapy. Used with permission to Heartland Play Therapy Institute.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,
your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
Hi,
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
The Kid Counselor,
and this is the Play Therapy Podcast where you
get a master class in child-centered play
therapy and practical support and application for
your work with children and their families.
In today's episode,
(00:20):
we are continuing in the CCPT Mindset series.
We are talking through the myth of the therapeutic agenda today.
Essentially
how even good intentions can derail us and deviate from the model.
So we're gonna dive into that,
but I want to share kind of an exciting announcement.
(00:42):
I am partnering with APPTA for those of you that do not know what that stands for.
That's the Australasia Pacific Play Therapy Association.
They actually are the ones that invited me to speak in Australia last fall.
They are doing a webinar on
stateside June 20th.
If you are in
Australia
(01:02):
and that part of the world,
it will be on Saturday.
And we are going to talk through
technology
and devices
inside and outside of the playroom.
In other words,
how our devices
and technology and screen use
impacting children in and out of the playroom?
How we can notice when children might be overexposed,
(01:25):
what we can share with parents,
the science behind
what has come out in research about how dangerous and damaging it is.
Really gonna be
a deep dive into all things related to kids and technology.
So in the states,
it will be on Friday night,
June 20th
at 10 p.m. Eastern.
I know,
(01:45):
I'm staying up late to do this y'all.
I mean,
I stay up late anyway,
but I was like,
I'm gonna do a webinar at 10 p.m. Oh my word.
Anyway,
so it will be 7 p.m. Pacific on Friday.
And then 8 and 9 and 10 depending on where you are in the states.
But if you are an Aussie,
a Kiwi,
if you're in Hong Kong,
it will be Saturday morning afternoon for you all.
(02:07):
So just wanted to let you know if you want to sign up,
there will be a link in the show notes
and
for us,
as the conversion rate is different,
it will be $39
for you all to attend
and it will be an hour and a half hour webinar for $39.
So it's actually a really good deal.
And for my
Kiwis,
Aussies,
those in Asia,
(02:28):
I'm actually going to be doing a Saturday your time event,
which is kind of exciting because you usually don't get me on the weekends.
So,
really excited about that.
Huge thank you to APPTA for giving me the opportunity and I
think we're gonna be partnering to do more webinars like that.
So I'll keep you all posted on that.
But June 20th,
10 p.m. Eastern and we'll give you the link to sign up if you all are interested.
(02:50):
OK,
so
when we're talking through the myth of the therapeutic agenda,
you know,
last week we talked about the want to help.
This week we're talking about
this subtle but very pervasive
notion
that therapists need to
accomplish something and I'm air quoting that
in sessions.
And that can be
(03:12):
helping a child quote open up
it can be helping a child gain insight.
It can be helping them work through something
and I'm kind of air quoting all of those things
because we really need to reframe
those very well intended
therapeutic agendas
as remnants of
directive pull.
(03:34):
And
what we're really wanting to do
is provide the environment and the relationship,
essentially the time,
the tools,
and the opportunity
for the child to do the work that the child needs to do.
We have to trust,
we have to be present,
and we have to let the child lead.
So at any point,
if we feel like we need to accomplish something.
(03:55):
We're now outside of CCPT
and therein lies the myth
because the agenda derails us.
So often these are statements that
we will hear.
We either say them ourselves or we will hear them.
Well,
I really want the child to work through this.
Whatever that this is,
or
(04:16):
I hope there's a breakthrough today.
Or
I just need them to understand,
fill in the blank.
And they sound gentle,
and they sound compassionate.
And they make sense.
But their agendas
And in CCPT there is never a destination.
(04:38):
There is only
presence.
There's only being with.
There's only
allowing the child to self-actualize.
So,
if we recognize those things as agendas,
I wanna dive a little bit deeper into maybe more practical definition.
Any goal that we might have?
(05:00):
Any hope that we have
or any outcome.
That we are shooting for that we bring into the session.
Now,
we may not
be aware that we bring those in.
Often I think this is probably unconscious.
Sometimes maybe they're conscious.
I really hope dot dot dot
or my goal is,
(05:21):
whatever,
but I think often it's unconscious.
So,
how many times have
we
thought,
man,
I want this kid to
process this trauma.
Or
I really hope that there's some kind of progress
so that I can talk to parents about this.
(05:41):
Or
Maybe I can lead the child just a little bit so that they'll get some
insight or
emotional connection or something.
Here's what happens when we think those
well intended.
And understandable,
but as soon as we think or say any of those things,
(06:02):
we have an agenda,
and that puts us ahead of the child.
CCPT meets the child exactly where they are.
We're always walking side by side on the path
and CCPT.
We're never ahead of the child.
Never
But an agenda will always put us ahead of the child,
(06:22):
and we're
pulling the child.
We're,
we're tugging the child,
we're trying to bring the child,
we're trying to drag them,
we're trying to move them.
That's not CCPT.
And these very subtle
agendas.
Get us
Off center
And essentially,
(06:44):
if we begin
tracking a goal,
for example,
Is the child becoming less aggressive?
Is the child getting in trouble less at school?
Is the child having tantrums less?
Is the child not getting notes home every day?
If we're tracking a goal.
That's
an agenda.
(07:05):
If we are disappointed
when
something doesn't happen.
For disappointed that a child didn't change their play.
If we're disappointed that a child refused to come back
to the playroom for the 4th week in a row.
If we're disappointed that we got another email
from parents about what happened at school.
That's an agenda.
(07:27):
And if we even gently are steering the process in any way.
This is really important.
It introduces pressure.
Often it's unspoken.
Often it's invisible.
But it's felt by the child.
There's no longer freedom.
(07:47):
There's no longer autonomy.
There's no longer permissiveness.
It's pressure.
And we would never come out and say
anything that would make the child feel pressured.
We would never want the child to feel pressured.
But
though even those quote
well intended agendas.
It shifts our focus from being with
(08:10):
to doing to the child.
It's not the doing to attitudes,
it's the be with attitudes.
Why?
I'm here,
I hear you,
I understand,
I care,
and I delight in you.
Those cannot coexist with pressure.
Non-directivity cannot coexist with pressure.
(08:31):
Child centeredness cannot coexist with pressure.
And here's the beauty of Landrith's writing.
Here's the beauty of the model,
as it has been eloquently stated many times.
Our presence
is the intervention.
It's not a plan,
it's not pressure,
(08:51):
it's not purpose.
It's our presence
Our presence is the intervention.
It's the relationship.
We know this,
we talk about this all the time.
It's never about a plan.
So,
why do we get caught in this trap?
Why,
why do we even unconsciously sometimes
(09:13):
have this stuff swirling around or maybe even we say or think or feel these things?
I would argue
it's because
There's
temptation for this.
Here's what I mean.
First of all,
if we
have this stuff in our heads,
it makes us feel
like we're trying to be effective.
(09:33):
Well,
I can't just do nothing.
I can't just sit back and say nothing.
I can't just wait this out.
I,
I need to feel like
I'm effective in some way.
It will often ease anxiety
about unknown outcomes.
And it will almost inevitably satisfy pressure
from parents or teachers or school staff
(09:55):
or agencies,
sometimes supervisors,
co-workers,
colleagues.
There's pressure
that we're getting from
external sources.
And it will satisfy the pressure
if
we lean into the temptation for an agenda.
And I think finally and maybe more often than not,
it creates the illusion
(10:16):
of control for us.
I cannot tell you the number of emails that I've gotten.
The number of calls that I've had,
the number of conversations
over the course of the Collective and coaching and things like that,
where people say,
So I used to be,
fill in the blank,
eclectic,
(10:37):
integrative,
CBT,
ABA,
whatever.
So background,
very anti-theoretical to CCPT.
So for this amount of time,
I was whatever the model was.
And I
was just frustrated.
I didn't have a clue what was going on.
I felt like there were never the gains that I was hoping for.
(10:58):
I just felt like I was floundering.
And then
I started fully CCPT.
And I just said,
OK,
with this kid
from the very beginning,
I'm going to be all in CCPT.
And I saw it.
And I watched it
and I witnessed it
and all of a sudden there were outcomes and
(11:20):
all of a sudden there was progress and all of
a sudden we were making gains and all of a
sudden things were changing and I was seeing the shifts
and you want to know what boggles my mind y'all?
The phrase that I hear over and over and over again is.
And everything you said was going to happen started happening,
end quote.
And I have never once,
(11:41):
I'm,
I'm being really transparent here,
not like I'm ever anything else,
but this,
I,
I've never even said this out loud before.
I have never once
said anything
in the Collective,
on the coaching,
on the podcast,
in any of my speaking.
I've never said anything.
This is exactly what you can expect
when you do CCPT.
Never.
Every session is different,
(12:02):
every kid is different.
I,
I have never once said,
here's your list,
here's a checklist,
here's here's what you're gonna notice,
here's what's gonna happen,
and you can just follow this step by step.
That's not how it works.
So when I hear that phrase,
and everything you said was going to happen,
started happening,
and I was like,
wow,
this works.
Y'all,
(12:23):
everything I've said that's going to happen.
Is the model
There,
there was no projection,
there was no magic ball.
I don't have psychic powers.
I'm not foreseeing things in the playroom.
All I ever did
was talk about the model.
And when you do this,
this is the outcome.
When we remain adherent,
(12:44):
we know this will happen.
It's the model.
And we get so caught up in wanting to have an agenda.
And
therapists have felt so discouraged because they
didn't quote get anywhere in session.
First of all,
if you're trying to get somewhere,
that's an agenda.
(13:04):
Sorry to call that out,
but let's just call a spade a spade here.
If we're like,
man,
I just felt like I wasn't getting anywhere,
you had an agenda.
And now all of a sudden when you're all in CCPT.
And you are fully adherent to the model,
and you trust the process,
you trust the child,
you trust the model.
(13:25):
All of a sudden there's no agenda
and things start happening.
And it's not exactly like I said,
I just taught you the model.
That this is so beautiful in the most spectacular way.
Because CCPT is different
than every other approach.
Why?
(13:45):
Because it trusts the child's internal process.
It believes that they will express
what they're ready to express.
They will move through what they need to.
They will lead us where they want to go.
And it will be when they're able to do it.
If we trust
all of the things we have to trust
(14:07):
ourselves,
the child,
the model,
and the process.
They will do the work
at their pace in their way.
It will naturally unfold
and all our job is.
Yes,
is presence,
but we're going to witness.
We get a front row seat.
What a gift that is.
(14:28):
We get to witness it.
We reflect
We unconditionally accept them.
And we wait
We're not rushing,
we're not redirecting,
we're not doing anything.
We trust everything that needs to be trusted.
And we remain adherent and things happen.
(14:51):
So,
how can you catch hidden agendas maybe?
So if you're,
if you're thinking through this,
and you're like,
OK,
so what,
what do I need to be careful of,
or what do I need to caution against?
Here are some common signs,
as I would identify them,
that maybe there's a hidden agenda,
maybe even unconsciously you're not even aware.
(15:12):
Maybe if you feel frustrated or disappointed after a session.
Now,
feeling exhausted after a session,
different story.
Feeling overwhelmed after a session,
emotional after a session,
exhausted,
whatever,
that that's not the same thing.
But if you feel frustrated or disappointed.
That's likely a hidden agenda.
(15:33):
If you feel the urge to
move things along.
Push the pace a little bit.
Get things moving.
Probably a hidden agenda.
If you reflect something or say something to the child.
Hoping that it will provoke
something deeper to emerge,
(15:53):
or it will move them into a different kind of play,
or it will
give them some kind of perspective that you think they need,
likely hidden agenda.
Or,
and this is a big one.
Maybe you share
a session summary with a parent in a consultation.
And it sounds like justification.
(16:16):
Likely agenda
So here are some phrases that maybe you need to safeguard against.
I was trying to get him or her to.
Or I wanted him or her to realize no,
see,
understand.
I think this behavior probably is.
(16:40):
Those are subtle control statements,
and they're not adherent to the model.
So,
let's kind of summarize this so that
we can put a bow here.
Be mindful that as a CCPT.
You are not
a guide for the child.
You're not guiding them anywhere.
You serve as guardrails.
(17:02):
You are a grounded presence.
You are
their
fellow sojourner,
if you will.
But you are not guiding anything.
Your role is never to engineer anything.
It's
to
observe.
(17:23):
And this is probably how
it'll all settle.
CCPT
Requires an act of radical trust.
Radical trust.
Remember the Yuri Bronfenbrenner quote that said,
every child needs an adult that has an irrational love for that kid.
(17:46):
Similar concept here.
To be CCPT.
It is an act of radical trust.
Almost irrational.
Groundbreaking,
mind-bending,
crazy levels of trust.
It's not agenda driven.
(18:07):
We say,
I believe in this.
I believe in you.
I'm just going to have radical trust in this.
When it doesn't seem to make sense,
when it seems slow,
when it seems that we're going nowhere,
when it seems like we're never going to have a breakthrough,
when it seems like this kid's resistance is the biggest you've ever seen,
(18:27):
when you're on week 8 of Room wreck,
when parents are saying they're gonna bail and take the kid to CBT,
when fill in the blank,
any scenario.
CCPT requires an act of radical trust.
So,
to be mindful of
the myth of the agenda.
(18:49):
Even if you have a softer a gentle one,
it's a deviation.
So start noticing where you hold maybe even subtle expectations
for what a session should look like or what should happen in a session,
or what the child needs to do or think or feel.
And
here's a wrap-up thought.
Your worth
(19:11):
as a CCPT.
Is never measured
by what happens in the playroom.
It's measured by your willingness
to stay present
in what is.
Let me say that again,
your worth as a CCPT.
I never measured by what happens in the playroom.
(19:33):
It's measured by your willingness to stay present in what is.
Whatever it is,
you just sit in the pocket of it.
And you trust it
That's all that's required of us.
We don't have to have an agenda.
It is exhausting.
I've had therapists share that with me too,
(19:53):
how exhausting it was
to always be guiding the ship,
always be steering everything,
always be coming up with what activity was going to be done and what was gonna be said
and how we were going to teach this and
what mindfulness activity we were going to do and
what needed to be introduced so that we could blah blah blah.
That is exhausting.
Stay present in what is.
(20:16):
That's it.
Be with
We are CCPT.
I hope that that encourages you.
Hope that it inspires you.
Catch yourself if you have a tendency to kind of veer in those directions.
We don't want to say that I have to help kids,
we also don't want to have a hidden agenda.
(20:37):
Next week,
we're going to talk about ways that we try to sneak.
Or subtly weave in
teaching
into sessions.
Because that happens a lot too,
y'all.
So,
all right,
I love y'all.
It was great to be with you.
We'll talk again soon.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.
(20:58):
Brenna Hicks.
For more episodes and resources,
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.
You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,
your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
Hi,
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
The Kid Counselor,
and this is the Play Therapy Podcast where you
get a master class in child-centered play
therapy and practical support and application for
your work with children and their families.
In today's episode,
(00:20):
we are continuing in the CCPT Mindset series.
We are talking through the myth of the therapeutic agenda today.
Essentially
how even good intentions can derail us and deviate from the model.
So we're gonna dive into that,
but I want to share kind of an exciting announcement.
(00:42):
I am partnering with APPTA for those of you that do not know what that stands for.
That's the Australasia Pacific Play Therapy Association.
They actually are the ones that invited me to speak in Australia last fall.
They are doing a webinar on
stateside June 20th.
If you are in
Australia
(01:02):
and that part of the world,
it will be on Saturday.
And we are going to talk through
technology
and devices
inside and outside of the playroom.
In other words,
how our devices
and technology and screen use
impacting children in and out of the playroom?
How we can notice when children might be overexposed,
(01:25):
what we can share with parents,
the science behind
what has come out in research about how dangerous and damaging it is.
Really gonna be
a deep dive into all things related to kids and technology.
So in the states,
it will be on Friday night,
June 20th
at 10 p.m. Eastern.
I know,
(01:45):
I'm staying up late to do this y'all.
I mean,
I stay up late anyway,
but I was like,
I'm gonna do a webinar at 10 p.m. Oh my word.
Anyway,
so it will be 7 p.m. Pacific on Friday.
And then 8 and 9 and 10 depending on where you are in the states.
But if you are an Aussie,
a Kiwi,
if you're in Hong Kong,
it will be Saturday morning afternoon for you all.
(02:07):
So just wanted to let you know if you want to sign up,
there will be a link in the show notes
and
for us,
as the conversion rate is different,
it will be $39
for you all to attend
and it will be an hour and a half hour webinar for $39.
So it's actually a really good deal.
And for my
Kiwis,
Aussies,
those in Asia,
(02:28):
I'm actually going to be doing a Saturday your time event,
which is kind of exciting because you usually don't get me on the weekends.
So,
really excited about that.
Huge thank you to APPTA for giving me the opportunity and I
think we're gonna be partnering to do more webinars like that.
So I'll keep you all posted on that.
But June 20th,
10 p.m. Eastern and we'll give you the link to sign up if you all are interested.
(02:50):
OK,
so
when we're talking through the myth of the therapeutic agenda,
you know,
last week we talked about the want to help.
This week we're talking about
this subtle but very pervasive
notion
that therapists need to
accomplish something and I'm air quoting that
in sessions.
And that can be
(03:12):
helping a child quote open up
it can be helping a child gain insight.
It can be helping them work through something
and I'm kind of air quoting all of those things
because we really need to reframe
those very well intended
therapeutic agendas
as remnants of
directive pull.
(03:34):
And
what we're really wanting to do
is provide the environment and the relationship,
essentially the time,
the tools,
and the opportunity
for the child to do the work that the child needs to do.
We have to trust,
we have to be present,
and we have to let the child lead.
So at any point,
if we feel like we need to accomplish something.
(03:55):
We're now outside of CCPT
and therein lies the myth
because the agenda derails us.
So often these are statements that
we will hear.
We either say them ourselves or we will hear them.
Well,
I really want the child to work through this.
Whatever that this is,
or
(04:16):
I hope there's a breakthrough today.
Or
I just need them to understand,
fill in the blank.
And they sound gentle,
and they sound compassionate.
And they make sense.
But their agendas
And in CCPT there is never a destination.
(04:38):
There is only
presence.
There's only being with.
There's only
allowing the child to self-actualize.
So,
if we recognize those things as agendas,
I wanna dive a little bit deeper into maybe more practical definition.
Any goal that we might have?
(05:00):
Any hope that we have
or any outcome.
That we are shooting for that we bring into the session.
Now,
we may not
be aware that we bring those in.
Often I think this is probably unconscious.
Sometimes maybe they're conscious.
I really hope dot dot dot
or my goal is,
(05:21):
whatever,
but I think often it's unconscious.
So,
how many times have
we
thought,
man,
I want this kid to
process this trauma.
Or
I really hope that there's some kind of progress
so that I can talk to parents about this.
(05:41):
Or
Maybe I can lead the child just a little bit so that they'll get some
insight or
emotional connection or something.
Here's what happens when we think those
well intended.
And understandable,
but as soon as we think or say any of those things,
(06:02):
we have an agenda,
and that puts us ahead of the child.
CCPT meets the child exactly where they are.
We're always walking side by side on the path
and CCPT.
We're never ahead of the child.
Never
But an agenda will always put us ahead of the child,
(06:22):
and we're
pulling the child.
We're,
we're tugging the child,
we're trying to bring the child,
we're trying to drag them,
we're trying to move them.
That's not CCPT.
And these very subtle
agendas.
Get us
Off center
And essentially,
(06:44):
if we begin
tracking a goal,
for example,
Is the child becoming less aggressive?
Is the child getting in trouble less at school?
Is the child having tantrums less?
Is the child not getting notes home every day?
If we're tracking a goal.
That's
an agenda.
(07:05):
If we are disappointed
when
something doesn't happen.
For disappointed that a child didn't change their play.
If we're disappointed that a child refused to come back
to the playroom for the 4th week in a row.
If we're disappointed that we got another email
from parents about what happened at school.
That's an agenda.
(07:27):
And if we even gently are steering the process in any way.
This is really important.
It introduces pressure.
Often it's unspoken.
Often it's invisible.
But it's felt by the child.
There's no longer freedom.
(07:47):
There's no longer autonomy.
There's no longer permissiveness.
It's pressure.
And we would never come out and say
anything that would make the child feel pressured.
We would never want the child to feel pressured.
But
though even those quote
well intended agendas.
It shifts our focus from being with
(08:10):
to doing to the child.
It's not the doing to attitudes,
it's the be with attitudes.
Why?
I'm here,
I hear you,
I understand,
I care,
and I delight in you.
Those cannot coexist with pressure.
Non-directivity cannot coexist with pressure.
(08:31):
Child centeredness cannot coexist with pressure.
And here's the beauty of Landrith's writing.
Here's the beauty of the model,
as it has been eloquently stated many times.
Our presence
is the intervention.
It's not a plan,
it's not pressure,
(08:51):
it's not purpose.
It's our presence
Our presence is the intervention.
It's the relationship.
We know this,
we talk about this all the time.
It's never about a plan.
So,
why do we get caught in this trap?
Why,
why do we even unconsciously sometimes
(09:13):
have this stuff swirling around or maybe even we say or think or feel these things?
I would argue
it's because
There's
temptation for this.
Here's what I mean.
First of all,
if we
have this stuff in our heads,
it makes us feel
like we're trying to be effective.
(09:33):
Well,
I can't just do nothing.
I can't just sit back and say nothing.
I can't just wait this out.
I,
I need to feel like
I'm effective in some way.
It will often ease anxiety
about unknown outcomes.
And it will almost inevitably satisfy pressure
from parents or teachers or school staff
(09:55):
or agencies,
sometimes supervisors,
co-workers,
colleagues.
There's pressure
that we're getting from
external sources.
And it will satisfy the pressure
if
we lean into the temptation for an agenda.
And I think finally and maybe more often than not,
it creates the illusion
(10:16):
of control for us.
I cannot tell you the number of emails that I've gotten.
The number of calls that I've had,
the number of conversations
over the course of the Collective and coaching and things like that,
where people say,
So I used to be,
fill in the blank,
eclectic,
(10:37):
integrative,
CBT,
ABA,
whatever.
So background,
very anti-theoretical to CCPT.
So for this amount of time,
I was whatever the model was.
And I
was just frustrated.
I didn't have a clue what was going on.
I felt like there were never the gains that I was hoping for.
(10:58):
I just felt like I was floundering.
And then
I started fully CCPT.
And I just said,
OK,
with this kid
from the very beginning,
I'm going to be all in CCPT.
And I saw it.
And I watched it
and I witnessed it
and all of a sudden there were outcomes and
(11:20):
all of a sudden there was progress and all of
a sudden we were making gains and all of a
sudden things were changing and I was seeing the shifts
and you want to know what boggles my mind y'all?
The phrase that I hear over and over and over again is.
And everything you said was going to happen started happening,
end quote.
And I have never once,
(11:41):
I'm,
I'm being really transparent here,
not like I'm ever anything else,
but this,
I,
I've never even said this out loud before.
I have never once
said anything
in the Collective,
on the coaching,
on the podcast,
in any of my speaking.
I've never said anything.
This is exactly what you can expect
when you do CCPT.
Never.
Every session is different,
(12:02):
every kid is different.
I,
I have never once said,
here's your list,
here's a checklist,
here's here's what you're gonna notice,
here's what's gonna happen,
and you can just follow this step by step.
That's not how it works.
So when I hear that phrase,
and everything you said was going to happen,
started happening,
and I was like,
wow,
this works.
Y'all,
(12:23):
everything I've said that's going to happen.
Is the model
There,
there was no projection,
there was no magic ball.
I don't have psychic powers.
I'm not foreseeing things in the playroom.
All I ever did
was talk about the model.
And when you do this,
this is the outcome.
When we remain adherent,
(12:44):
we know this will happen.
It's the model.
And we get so caught up in wanting to have an agenda.
And
therapists have felt so discouraged because they
didn't quote get anywhere in session.
First of all,
if you're trying to get somewhere,
that's an agenda.
(13:04):
Sorry to call that out,
but let's just call a spade a spade here.
If we're like,
man,
I just felt like I wasn't getting anywhere,
you had an agenda.
And now all of a sudden when you're all in CCPT.
And you are fully adherent to the model,
and you trust the process,
you trust the child,
you trust the model.
(13:25):
All of a sudden there's no agenda
and things start happening.
And it's not exactly like I said,
I just taught you the model.
That this is so beautiful in the most spectacular way.
Because CCPT is different
than every other approach.
Why?
(13:45):
Because it trusts the child's internal process.
It believes that they will express
what they're ready to express.
They will move through what they need to.
They will lead us where they want to go.
And it will be when they're able to do it.
If we trust
all of the things we have to trust
(14:07):
ourselves,
the child,
the model,
and the process.
They will do the work
at their pace in their way.
It will naturally unfold
and all our job is.
Yes,
is presence,
but we're going to witness.
We get a front row seat.
What a gift that is.
(14:28):
We get to witness it.
We reflect
We unconditionally accept them.
And we wait
We're not rushing,
we're not redirecting,
we're not doing anything.
We trust everything that needs to be trusted.
And we remain adherent and things happen.
(14:51):
So,
how can you catch hidden agendas maybe?
So if you're,
if you're thinking through this,
and you're like,
OK,
so what,
what do I need to be careful of,
or what do I need to caution against?
Here are some common signs,
as I would identify them,
that maybe there's a hidden agenda,
maybe even unconsciously you're not even aware.
(15:12):
Maybe if you feel frustrated or disappointed after a session.
Now,
feeling exhausted after a session,
different story.
Feeling overwhelmed after a session,
emotional after a session,
exhausted,
whatever,
that that's not the same thing.
But if you feel frustrated or disappointed.
That's likely a hidden agenda.
(15:33):
If you feel the urge to
move things along.
Push the pace a little bit.
Get things moving.
Probably a hidden agenda.
If you reflect something or say something to the child.
Hoping that it will provoke
something deeper to emerge,
(15:53):
or it will move them into a different kind of play,
or it will
give them some kind of perspective that you think they need,
likely hidden agenda.
Or,
and this is a big one.
Maybe you share
a session summary with a parent in a consultation.
And it sounds like justification.
(16:16):
Likely agenda
So here are some phrases that maybe you need to safeguard against.
I was trying to get him or her to.
Or I wanted him or her to realize no,
see,
understand.
I think this behavior probably is.
(16:40):
Those are subtle control statements,
and they're not adherent to the model.
So,
let's kind of summarize this so that
we can put a bow here.
Be mindful that as a CCPT.
You are not
a guide for the child.
You're not guiding them anywhere.
You serve as guardrails.
(17:02):
You are a grounded presence.
You are
their
fellow sojourner,
if you will.
But you are not guiding anything.
Your role is never to engineer anything.
It's
to
observe.
(17:23):
And this is probably how
it'll all settle.
CCPT
Requires an act of radical trust.
Radical trust.
Remember the Yuri Bronfenbrenner quote that said,
every child needs an adult that has an irrational love for that kid.
(17:46):
Similar concept here.
To be CCPT.
It is an act of radical trust.
Almost irrational.
Groundbreaking,
mind-bending,
crazy levels of trust.
It's not agenda driven.
(18:07):
We say,
I believe in this.
I believe in you.
I'm just going to have radical trust in this.
When it doesn't seem to make sense,
when it seems slow,
when it seems that we're going nowhere,
when it seems like we're never going to have a breakthrough,
when it seems like this kid's resistance is the biggest you've ever seen,
(18:27):
when you're on week 8 of Room wreck,
when parents are saying they're gonna bail and take the kid to CBT,
when fill in the blank,
any scenario.
CCPT requires an act of radical trust.
So,
to be mindful of
the myth of the agenda.
(18:49):
Even if you have a softer a gentle one,
it's a deviation.
So start noticing where you hold maybe even subtle expectations
for what a session should look like or what should happen in a session,
or what the child needs to do or think or feel.
And
here's a wrap-up thought.
Your worth
(19:11):
as a CCPT.
Is never measured
by what happens in the playroom.
It's measured by your willingness
to stay present
in what is.
Let me say that again,
your worth as a CCPT.
I never measured by what happens in the playroom.
(19:33):
It's measured by your willingness to stay present in what is.
Whatever it is,
you just sit in the pocket of it.
And you trust it
That's all that's required of us.
We don't have to have an agenda.
It is exhausting.
I've had therapists share that with me too,
(19:53):
how exhausting it was
to always be guiding the ship,
always be steering everything,
always be coming up with what activity was going to be done and what was gonna be said
and how we were going to teach this and
what mindfulness activity we were going to do and
what needed to be introduced so that we could blah blah blah.
That is exhausting.
Stay present in what is.
(20:16):
That's it.
Be with
We are CCPT.
I hope that that encourages you.
Hope that it inspires you.
Catch yourself if you have a tendency to kind of veer in those directions.
We don't want to say that I have to help kids,
we also don't want to have a hidden agenda.
(20:37):
Next week,
we're going to talk about ways that we try to sneak.
Or subtly weave in
teaching
into sessions.
Because that happens a lot too,
y'all.
So,
all right,
I love y'all.
It was great to be with you.
We'll talk again soon.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.
(20:58):
Brenna Hicks.
For more episodes and resources,
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.
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