June 11, 2025 • 20 mins
In this episode, I continue the CCPT Mindset series with a deep dive into something we all wrestle with at some point: progress anxiety. As child-centered play therapists, it’s easy to slip into the trap of wanting sessions to “go somewhere”—especially when outside pressures, whether internal doubts, school expectations, or parent demands, make us question whether anything is really happening.
I unpack the ways agenda sneaks into our work, often in subtle forms, and how our discomfort can lead us to drift from the model without realizing it. I share the concept of progress as something that emerges, not something we make happen, and offer some practical mindset reframes to help you stay grounded in radical trust. If you’ve ever felt anxious about your client’s progress, this is the episode to bring you back to the heart of CCPT.
A new cohort of Six-Figure Play Therapist coaching is starting in August! If you're interested in coaching with me, and you are in, or have a 1-3 year plan to open your own private practice, then visit the following website to learn more and book a 30-minute Discovery Call with me. https://sixfigureplaytherapist.com/
PlayTherapyNow.com is my HUB for everything I do! playtherapynow.com. Sign up for my email newsletter, stay ahead with the latest CCPT CEU courses, personalized coaching opportunities and other opportunities you need to thrive in your CCPT practice. If you click one link in these show notes, this is the one to click!
If you would like to ask me questions directly, check out www.ccptcollective.com, where I host two weekly Zoom calls filled with advanced CCPT case studies and session reviews, as well as member Q&A. You can take advantage of the two-week free trial to see if the CCPT Collective is right for you.
Ask Me Questions: Call (813) 812-5525, or email: brenna@thekidcounselor.com
Brenna's CCPT Hub: https://www.playtherapynow.com
CCPT Collective (online community exclusively for CCPTs): https://www.ccptcollective.com
Podcast HQ: https://www.playtherapypodcast.com
APT Approved Play Therapy CE courses: https://childcenteredtraining.com
Twitter: @thekidcounselor https://twitter.com/thekidcounselor
Facebook: https://facebook.com/playtherapypodcast
Common References:
Cochran, N., Nordling, W., & Cochran, J. (2010). Child-Centered Play Therapy (1st ed.). Wiley.
VanFleet, R., Sywulak, A. E., & Sniscak, C. C. (2010). Child-centered play therapy. Guilford Press.
Landreth, G.L. (2023). Play Therapy: The Art of the Relationship (4th ed.). Routledge.
Bratton, S. C., Landreth, G. L., Kellam, T., & Blackard, S. R. (2006). Child parent relationship therapy (CPRT) treatment manual: A 10-session filial therapy model for training parents. Routledge/Taylor & Francis Group.
Benedict, Helen. Themes in Play Therapy. Used with permission to Heartland Play Therapy Institute.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,
your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
Hi,
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
The Kid Counselor.
This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get
a master class in child-centered play therapy
and practical support and application for your
work with children and their families.
In today's episode,
(00:20):
I am continuing
in the CCPT Mindset series
and we are talking about progress anxiety today.
When our discomfort gets in the way of the session
due to pressure for progress.
So we'll deep dive that in just a second.
I just wanted to do a really quick PSA,
(00:41):
a little bit of housekeeping,
if you will.
For those of you that have been considering joining the Collective,
we are at 200 members now,
and it is for those of you that may not be familiar,
it is an online community of CCPTs around the world
where we have two live weekly Q&A calls,
we do discussions and forums and posts.
(01:01):
And it's just all things,
resources and support for CCPTs.
So if maybe you feel isolated,
if you feel alone,
if you feel like you do not have the support or
the resources that you would like from supervision from clinical directors,
owners of your practice,
whomever.
This might be a really helpful place for you to be.
(01:22):
So you get a 2 week free trial.
If you're interested,
please go to CCPTcollective.com.
We would love to have you.
We just hit our 200th member,
so something to celebrate for sure.
All of you Collective folks,
thanks for being a part of that.
We have so much fun each week.
Also,
some of you may or may not know that
I do a six-figure play therapist coaching program.
It is a year-long coaching program which gives you deep dive into CCPT training
(01:47):
as well as private practice business coaching.
If you are in private practice and you want to take your practice to the next level
and or if you are thinking about going into private practice in the next 1 to 3 years,
6 figure play therapist is probably a really helpful program for you.
I have a couple spots left in the group starting in August.
So if you are interested,
please go to sixfigureplatherapist.com and you can
(02:09):
schedule a discovery call with me.
Got a couple more spots,
so I wanted to make you all aware.
I don't talk about that stuff on the podcast very often,
but
for those of you that might be interested,
just wanted to give you an opportunity to check in.
OK,
so let's talk through
the CCPT mindset in relation to progress anxiety.
(02:30):
We
can get sucked into to progress pressure.
And that becomes inherently a problem
if all of a sudden we are starting to think through.
Where do we need to make more progress?
What needs to happen so we can get more progress?
We need to do this faster because progress isn't happening quickly enough.
(02:53):
All of a sudden now
we're at agenda again
this entire series,
the word agenda keeps coming back up.
Why?
Because as soon as there's agenda,
we're no longer adherent to the model.
And progress pressure absolutely creates deviation.
Why does progress anxiety show up?
(03:14):
Well,
I would argue
3 types of pressure.
We have internal pressures.
Where
we are questioning our own efficacy
if things aren't happening.
We're feeling like we need validation that what we're doing is helpful.
We aren't sure if maybe our lack of skills
(03:35):
is the problem and it's contributing to why we're not seeing things happening.
That's all internal pressure.
We are
worried
because we think that
something needs to be different or better or
modified in some way.
Another type of progress anxiety pressure is school-based.
(03:58):
When the teachers
want something fixed now
when the principal expects you to quote do something
with the kid that's flipping desks over
when the expectation is CBT
and worksheets and directives and just talk to them about it.
That creates anxiety for us
(04:20):
because
there has to be tangible progress
in those terms.
Private practice pressure.
When people are paying you,
they expect results.
And there's
their expectations are typically higher.
Because
they want to see evidence that this is working.
(04:42):
We have higher pressure
because
They come every week and they pay for it.
30 to 40 weeks is the average.
That's a really long time,
3 quarters of a year.
No one wants to wait 3 quarters of a year
to see growth and change.
So there's pressure there
So it makes sense
(05:03):
that we
feel these things.
Now,
I think often many of us can recognize it and curb it.
But I think often we don't even realize
that those pressures are influencing
our thinking,
our conversations,
our dialogue.
I was on coaching calls this week
(05:23):
and someone said,
I was talking about an emotional break that took place in one of the shifts,
or in one of the sessions,
sorry.
It was a shift,
yes,
but it was an emotional break in the session.
And I was acknowledging,
look,
that had been really deep work.
There was nurturing and caregiving stuff going on there,
and
we watched the child need an emotional break,
(05:43):
so we went to crafts.
And the therapist's response was,
is there something that I should have said or done
differently to keep her in that nurturing caregiving play?
That's an innocent,
helpful,
thoughtful question.
Is there something that I should have done that would have
had her stay there?
(06:04):
But look at how that's agenda driven.
Later in the same coaching call,
we were talking about a child wanting to leave the session early,
and I said,
what if kid really wants to go out and see mom?
What are the choices that we can offer when we set a limit?
And a therapist said,
well,
would we just have mom come back into the playroom?
(06:28):
These are these subtle innocent questions
where we're trying to
solve a problem.
We're trying to figure something out.
We're unsure.
We don't have the theory so solidified
that we know what to fall back on.
Therefore,
we start grasping at things,
maybe this,
maybe not this.
Should I,
(06:49):
shouldn't I?
Can I,
can't I?
Now all of a sudden,
it all comes back to agenda.
We think
that something should be happening.
We hope
something will happen.
We want for something.
And it slides its way in,
and we ask questions,
(07:10):
and it's very clear that we've gotten off track of the model.
So this progress anxiety,
it puts a lot of pressure on us.
And if we let progress anxiety lead,
We run
big risks.
Because as soon as you stop trusting the child.
(07:32):
As soon as you stop trusting the model.
And as soon as you stop stop trusting the process.
You start needing something
from the kid.
Let me say that again cause that's,
that's a powerful
point.
If we stop trusting the child,
(07:54):
trusting the model,
and trusting the process,
we start needing something from
the child.
And if we need anything from the child
that flies in the face of CCPT.
They need something from us.
They need adherence.
(08:14):
They need unconditional acceptance.
They need presence.
They need
engagement.
They need lots of things from us.
We don't need anything from them.
We don't want to need anything from them.
Child-centeredness as
(08:35):
You're going to do the work that you need to do in your way and your time.
If the time,
the tools,
and the opportunity are provided.
You'll self-actualize.
I don't need you to be kind.
I don't need you to be in control.
I don't need you to play.
I don't need you to talk.
I don't need you to come into the playroom.
(08:55):
I don't need you to move through resistance fast.
I don't need you to work on a theme.
I don't need you to address your anxiety.
I don't.
We don't need anything.
We trust the child,
trust the model,
trust the process.
That's where it always comes back to.
(09:15):
This is the CCPT mindset,
y'all get this?
I hope so.
I,
I envision you nodding your heads,
but I hope so.
Because listen,
We
always have to come back to a reframe.
If,
if we find ourselves
slippery sloping
into this scenario,
(09:36):
We need to reframe,
and here's a really helpful reframe.
We have to believe that progress emerges.
Think about that word.
It emerges
It's not forced,
it's not rushed,
it's not pushed.
(09:57):
It's not insisted.
It's not guided,
it's not
taught,
it emerges.
There's something very raw and organic about that.
Think about a seed
that is buried under the soil
and the first little tiny bit of a leaf emerges.
(10:19):
Think about the sun emerging.
Over the horizon in the morning.
There's no speeding that up.
There's no making it happen.
I don't look at a seed.
You remember back in like elementary school when you got the lima bean
and everyone got like the paper cup and the soil and you put the lima bean in
it and you like waited and waited and waited for it to emerge out of the soil,
(10:41):
right?
Did you ever do anything on your own?
To make that
seed germinate and sprout.
No,
you might have thought you did.
Oh,
I gave it water.
I put it in the sun.
I did whatever.
No,
you gave the conditions for that thing to emerge.
Do you see the parallel here?
(11:01):
I literally,
this was not on my notes.
I'm just going rogue here,
but this is actually really helpful.
My brain,
you know,
just guides me in random directions sometimes.
Look,
you provided conditions.
It had soil and it had water and it had sun,
and it had time.
That's the relationship and the playroom and the trust in the process.
(11:21):
We provide the conditions,
but there is not one iota of thing that you did
to make that seed emerge from the soil,
not one thing.
You didn't pray it to grow,
you didn't will it to grow,
you didn't think it to grow,
you didn't force it to grow.
You didn't
peel open the sides of the lima beans and grab the leaf and jerk it out of the top.
(11:42):
You did nothing.
It just emerged.
Progress emerges.
It is not
forced or anything else.
We have to keep that in mind.
And what does it go back to?
I've said this recently,
radical trust.
Radical faith,
(12:04):
radical patience.
A decentering
of ourselves.
This is why CCPT is so hard,
y'all.
If you want to make stuff happen.
Look,
people in my life that know me well,
they,
they would clearly tell you that I like to control things,
OK?
You're probably not surprised.
(12:25):
I would not say,
I would not go so far as to say as I'm a control freak,
but I very much like to have control over things.
I
am fully comfortable
being completely out of control in a playroom.
But that has taken
self work,
that has taken self introspection,
(12:47):
that has taken self.
Actualization
It has taken a lot of things.
If you are going to be
in a child-centered playroom,
in a child-centered model,
you have to just let things emerge.
And you should not feel compelled
(13:09):
to do anything other than just let it happen.
The second you feel compelled to do something,
you're no longer adherent.
Second thought
When
you start to question
if
what's going on or not going on is about you.
(13:31):
You need to reframe that too.
Maybe I'm just too green.
Maybe I'm too new.
Maybe it's because I'm not RPT.
Maybe it's because I'm not licensed.
Maybe it's because I've only listened to 77 episodes instead of all 310 or whatever.
Maybe it's because I've never been supervised by a CCPT.
Maybe it's because I've never had anyone watch my video.
(13:52):
Maybe it's because.
Maybe I should bring something up.
Maybe I should just like say,
oh mom told me you had a bad day at school.
Maybe I should offer to do
an an activity,
and they can still choose not to,
so it's still child centeredness,
y'all stop.
As soon as you make yourself
at the center of anything.
(14:14):
You've gone off the rails.
It is not about you.
It should never be about you.
Stay out of the way.
In the gentlest and most loving way that I can say that.
Stay out of the way.
The child is driving,
not you.
Don't get hit
(14:35):
cause kids are crazy drivers.
Do not get run over.
Get out of the way!
You are the guide rails.
You are not driving.
You need to make sure this is not about you and that you don't make it about you.
Also,
you need to
(14:56):
embody the word trust.
Quick illustration related.
I was on a coaching call today.
And one of my coaching people
said,
I have to tell you this story,
kid wouldn't go back to the playroom,
lobby session.
Really chaotic,
really whatever.
And so the child darts down the hallway
(15:17):
and I had like a couple seconds,
so I looked at mom and I said,
you need to give me your best impression of a brick wall right now.
And
I,
I loved it cause I was like,
you know what,
you're essentially in a,
in a unique way,
saying,
I need you to just trust what's going on right now.
I,
I need you to not react.
(15:37):
I need you to not get emotional.
I need you to not think,
I need you to not,
I,
I just need you to be a brick wall right now,
OK?
Just trust what's going on,
it's all gonna be all right.
This is what we need to think about when we are facing this progress anxiety.
Trust should be the thing that comes up over and over and over again for you.
Do you know how many times someone emails me,
(15:58):
messages me,
is on a Collective call is on a coaching call,
interacts with me in any way,
shape,
or form.
This is how the conversation often goes.
So I have a question for you,
Brenna.
OK,
sure.
So,
I think I know what you're gonna say,
but,
and I'm like,
OK,
if you're gonna start with that,
then you probably don't need to ask this question,
(16:20):
but
I indulged the question.
And then after they ask,
whatever it is that they're asking,
they usually say something like,
and I mean,
it's probably just like trust the process,
right?
We know it
We just don't believe it and embody it.
I can only tell you trust the process
(16:41):
1,797,000 times.
I have,
I've,
I've said it ad nauseam until I'm blue in the face.
You all know,
trust the process.
But we don't sometimes.
You have to catch yourself feeling the anxiety and the discomfort of progress
(17:01):
and the word that pops into your head needs to be trust.
Trust all kinds of things.
Trust the process,
trust the model,
trust the child,
trust yourself.
Trust your skills,
trust your competence,
trust everything.
As soon as you let go,
you know what?
Trust requires letting go.
(17:23):
You know,
the whole like trust fall concept.
You just blindly fall backwards and you trust someone's gonna catch you.
You,
you cannot let go
if you don't have trust.
Let go and fall back on your awareness of the importance of trust.
(17:43):
And
above all else.
We cannot
get so caught up in our own.
Sense of what needs to happen or should happen or should be happening.
We should be past resistance by now.
I should not have had 7 lobby sessions.
We should,
(18:03):
this kid should have already been playing out
dad's death.
I mean,
I don't know why that hasn't come up yet.
This kid
This is why
all we need is a child's name
before we play with them.
Because if we didn't have any context,
if we didn't know about any of the notes home,
if we didn't know about dad's death,
if we didn't know about the bad day at school,
(18:24):
if we didn't know about the expulsion threats,
if we didn't know about
the tantrums,
about hitting sister,
about whatever,
if we knew none of that.
I don't think we would have as much progress anxiety.
We feel that
because we know too much.
And knowing too much
makes us want to do something,
(18:45):
fix something,
solve something
and other people are expecting that of us too.
It's not just that we feel that we have the external pressures of that.
It all comes back
to
you just need the kid's name.
And you just remain adherent.
It works.
We know it works.
(19:06):
I've also talked till I'm blue in the face about all
of the evidence and efficacy and data that supports this.
Guess what we don't have evidence for
when we deviate from the model.
That,
that's when you're in dangerous water,
y'all.
You,
you want to really start to question and doubt and,
and have no idea what's going on,
(19:26):
deviate from the model.
If you remain adherent,
you should have no progress anxiety.
You know it'll happen.
You know,
We've proven it
thousands of times,
anecdotally and empirically.
We know it works.
(19:47):
So you trust.
This is the CCPT mindset.
Progress anxiety cannot drive your session.
Is it uncomfortable at times?
Sure.
But you say
It might be uncomfortable,
but
I'm staying out of the way and I'm trusting.
And that keeps you in the model and it keeps you
(20:08):
adherent.
That's the goal,
relationship above all else.
That child has to feel unconditionally accepted by you.
Not
accepted if you dot dot dot.
No conditions,
no agenda,
unconditional acceptance preserves the relationship.
Unconditional trust keeps you adherent to the model.
(20:31):
Love y'all.
Hope you have a great week.
We'll talk again soon.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.
Brenna Hicks.
For more episodes and resources,
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.
You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,
your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
Hi,
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
The Kid Counselor.
This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get
a master class in child-centered play therapy
and practical support and application for your
work with children and their families.
In today's episode,
(00:20):
I am continuing
in the CCPT Mindset series
and we are talking about progress anxiety today.
When our discomfort gets in the way of the session
due to pressure for progress.
So we'll deep dive that in just a second.
I just wanted to do a really quick PSA,
(00:41):
a little bit of housekeeping,
if you will.
For those of you that have been considering joining the Collective,
we are at 200 members now,
and it is for those of you that may not be familiar,
it is an online community of CCPTs around the world
where we have two live weekly Q&A calls,
we do discussions and forums and posts.
(01:01):
And it's just all things,
resources and support for CCPTs.
So if maybe you feel isolated,
if you feel alone,
if you feel like you do not have the support or
the resources that you would like from supervision from clinical directors,
owners of your practice,
whomever.
This might be a really helpful place for you to be.
(01:22):
So you get a 2 week free trial.
If you're interested,
please go to CCPTcollective.com.
We would love to have you.
We just hit our 200th member,
so something to celebrate for sure.
All of you Collective folks,
thanks for being a part of that.
We have so much fun each week.
Also,
some of you may or may not know that
I do a six-figure play therapist coaching program.
It is a year-long coaching program which gives you deep dive into CCPT training
(01:47):
as well as private practice business coaching.
If you are in private practice and you want to take your practice to the next level
and or if you are thinking about going into private practice in the next 1 to 3 years,
6 figure play therapist is probably a really helpful program for you.
I have a couple spots left in the group starting in August.
So if you are interested,
please go to sixfigureplatherapist.com and you can
(02:09):
schedule a discovery call with me.
Got a couple more spots,
so I wanted to make you all aware.
I don't talk about that stuff on the podcast very often,
but
for those of you that might be interested,
just wanted to give you an opportunity to check in.
OK,
so let's talk through
the CCPT mindset in relation to progress anxiety.
(02:30):
We
can get sucked into to progress pressure.
And that becomes inherently a problem
if all of a sudden we are starting to think through.
Where do we need to make more progress?
What needs to happen so we can get more progress?
We need to do this faster because progress isn't happening quickly enough.
(02:53):
All of a sudden now
we're at agenda again
this entire series,
the word agenda keeps coming back up.
Why?
Because as soon as there's agenda,
we're no longer adherent to the model.
And progress pressure absolutely creates deviation.
Why does progress anxiety show up?
(03:14):
Well,
I would argue
3 types of pressure.
We have internal pressures.
Where
we are questioning our own efficacy
if things aren't happening.
We're feeling like we need validation that what we're doing is helpful.
We aren't sure if maybe our lack of skills
(03:35):
is the problem and it's contributing to why we're not seeing things happening.
That's all internal pressure.
We are
worried
because we think that
something needs to be different or better or
modified in some way.
Another type of progress anxiety pressure is school-based.
(03:58):
When the teachers
want something fixed now
when the principal expects you to quote do something
with the kid that's flipping desks over
when the expectation is CBT
and worksheets and directives and just talk to them about it.
That creates anxiety for us
(04:20):
because
there has to be tangible progress
in those terms.
Private practice pressure.
When people are paying you,
they expect results.
And there's
their expectations are typically higher.
Because
they want to see evidence that this is working.
(04:42):
We have higher pressure
because
They come every week and they pay for it.
30 to 40 weeks is the average.
That's a really long time,
3 quarters of a year.
No one wants to wait 3 quarters of a year
to see growth and change.
So there's pressure there
So it makes sense
(05:03):
that we
feel these things.
Now,
I think often many of us can recognize it and curb it.
But I think often we don't even realize
that those pressures are influencing
our thinking,
our conversations,
our dialogue.
I was on coaching calls this week
(05:23):
and someone said,
I was talking about an emotional break that took place in one of the shifts,
or in one of the sessions,
sorry.
It was a shift,
yes,
but it was an emotional break in the session.
And I was acknowledging,
look,
that had been really deep work.
There was nurturing and caregiving stuff going on there,
and
we watched the child need an emotional break,
(05:43):
so we went to crafts.
And the therapist's response was,
is there something that I should have said or done
differently to keep her in that nurturing caregiving play?
That's an innocent,
helpful,
thoughtful question.
Is there something that I should have done that would have
had her stay there?
(06:04):
But look at how that's agenda driven.
Later in the same coaching call,
we were talking about a child wanting to leave the session early,
and I said,
what if kid really wants to go out and see mom?
What are the choices that we can offer when we set a limit?
And a therapist said,
well,
would we just have mom come back into the playroom?
(06:28):
These are these subtle innocent questions
where we're trying to
solve a problem.
We're trying to figure something out.
We're unsure.
We don't have the theory so solidified
that we know what to fall back on.
Therefore,
we start grasping at things,
maybe this,
maybe not this.
Should I,
(06:49):
shouldn't I?
Can I,
can't I?
Now all of a sudden,
it all comes back to agenda.
We think
that something should be happening.
We hope
something will happen.
We want for something.
And it slides its way in,
and we ask questions,
(07:10):
and it's very clear that we've gotten off track of the model.
So this progress anxiety,
it puts a lot of pressure on us.
And if we let progress anxiety lead,
We run
big risks.
Because as soon as you stop trusting the child.
(07:32):
As soon as you stop trusting the model.
And as soon as you stop stop trusting the process.
You start needing something
from the kid.
Let me say that again cause that's,
that's a powerful
point.
If we stop trusting the child,
(07:54):
trusting the model,
and trusting the process,
we start needing something from
the child.
And if we need anything from the child
that flies in the face of CCPT.
They need something from us.
They need adherence.
(08:14):
They need unconditional acceptance.
They need presence.
They need
engagement.
They need lots of things from us.
We don't need anything from them.
We don't want to need anything from them.
Child-centeredness as
(08:35):
You're going to do the work that you need to do in your way and your time.
If the time,
the tools,
and the opportunity are provided.
You'll self-actualize.
I don't need you to be kind.
I don't need you to be in control.
I don't need you to play.
I don't need you to talk.
I don't need you to come into the playroom.
(08:55):
I don't need you to move through resistance fast.
I don't need you to work on a theme.
I don't need you to address your anxiety.
I don't.
We don't need anything.
We trust the child,
trust the model,
trust the process.
That's where it always comes back to.
(09:15):
This is the CCPT mindset,
y'all get this?
I hope so.
I,
I envision you nodding your heads,
but I hope so.
Because listen,
We
always have to come back to a reframe.
If,
if we find ourselves
slippery sloping
into this scenario,
(09:36):
We need to reframe,
and here's a really helpful reframe.
We have to believe that progress emerges.
Think about that word.
It emerges
It's not forced,
it's not rushed,
it's not pushed.
(09:57):
It's not insisted.
It's not guided,
it's not
taught,
it emerges.
There's something very raw and organic about that.
Think about a seed
that is buried under the soil
and the first little tiny bit of a leaf emerges.
(10:19):
Think about the sun emerging.
Over the horizon in the morning.
There's no speeding that up.
There's no making it happen.
I don't look at a seed.
You remember back in like elementary school when you got the lima bean
and everyone got like the paper cup and the soil and you put the lima bean in
it and you like waited and waited and waited for it to emerge out of the soil,
(10:41):
right?
Did you ever do anything on your own?
To make that
seed germinate and sprout.
No,
you might have thought you did.
Oh,
I gave it water.
I put it in the sun.
I did whatever.
No,
you gave the conditions for that thing to emerge.
Do you see the parallel here?
(11:01):
I literally,
this was not on my notes.
I'm just going rogue here,
but this is actually really helpful.
My brain,
you know,
just guides me in random directions sometimes.
Look,
you provided conditions.
It had soil and it had water and it had sun,
and it had time.
That's the relationship and the playroom and the trust in the process.
(11:21):
We provide the conditions,
but there is not one iota of thing that you did
to make that seed emerge from the soil,
not one thing.
You didn't pray it to grow,
you didn't will it to grow,
you didn't think it to grow,
you didn't force it to grow.
You didn't
peel open the sides of the lima beans and grab the leaf and jerk it out of the top.
(11:42):
You did nothing.
It just emerged.
Progress emerges.
It is not
forced or anything else.
We have to keep that in mind.
And what does it go back to?
I've said this recently,
radical trust.
Radical faith,
(12:04):
radical patience.
A decentering
of ourselves.
This is why CCPT is so hard,
y'all.
If you want to make stuff happen.
Look,
people in my life that know me well,
they,
they would clearly tell you that I like to control things,
OK?
You're probably not surprised.
(12:25):
I would not say,
I would not go so far as to say as I'm a control freak,
but I very much like to have control over things.
I
am fully comfortable
being completely out of control in a playroom.
But that has taken
self work,
that has taken self introspection,
(12:47):
that has taken self.
Actualization
It has taken a lot of things.
If you are going to be
in a child-centered playroom,
in a child-centered model,
you have to just let things emerge.
And you should not feel compelled
(13:09):
to do anything other than just let it happen.
The second you feel compelled to do something,
you're no longer adherent.
Second thought
When
you start to question
if
what's going on or not going on is about you.
(13:31):
You need to reframe that too.
Maybe I'm just too green.
Maybe I'm too new.
Maybe it's because I'm not RPT.
Maybe it's because I'm not licensed.
Maybe it's because I've only listened to 77 episodes instead of all 310 or whatever.
Maybe it's because I've never been supervised by a CCPT.
Maybe it's because I've never had anyone watch my video.
(13:52):
Maybe it's because.
Maybe I should bring something up.
Maybe I should just like say,
oh mom told me you had a bad day at school.
Maybe I should offer to do
an an activity,
and they can still choose not to,
so it's still child centeredness,
y'all stop.
As soon as you make yourself
at the center of anything.
(14:14):
You've gone off the rails.
It is not about you.
It should never be about you.
Stay out of the way.
In the gentlest and most loving way that I can say that.
Stay out of the way.
The child is driving,
not you.
Don't get hit
(14:35):
cause kids are crazy drivers.
Do not get run over.
Get out of the way!
You are the guide rails.
You are not driving.
You need to make sure this is not about you and that you don't make it about you.
Also,
you need to
(14:56):
embody the word trust.
Quick illustration related.
I was on a coaching call today.
And one of my coaching people
said,
I have to tell you this story,
kid wouldn't go back to the playroom,
lobby session.
Really chaotic,
really whatever.
And so the child darts down the hallway
(15:17):
and I had like a couple seconds,
so I looked at mom and I said,
you need to give me your best impression of a brick wall right now.
And
I,
I loved it cause I was like,
you know what,
you're essentially in a,
in a unique way,
saying,
I need you to just trust what's going on right now.
I,
I need you to not react.
(15:37):
I need you to not get emotional.
I need you to not think,
I need you to not,
I,
I just need you to be a brick wall right now,
OK?
Just trust what's going on,
it's all gonna be all right.
This is what we need to think about when we are facing this progress anxiety.
Trust should be the thing that comes up over and over and over again for you.
Do you know how many times someone emails me,
(15:58):
messages me,
is on a Collective call is on a coaching call,
interacts with me in any way,
shape,
or form.
This is how the conversation often goes.
So I have a question for you,
Brenna.
OK,
sure.
So,
I think I know what you're gonna say,
but,
and I'm like,
OK,
if you're gonna start with that,
then you probably don't need to ask this question,
(16:20):
but
I indulged the question.
And then after they ask,
whatever it is that they're asking,
they usually say something like,
and I mean,
it's probably just like trust the process,
right?
We know it
We just don't believe it and embody it.
I can only tell you trust the process
(16:41):
1,797,000 times.
I have,
I've,
I've said it ad nauseam until I'm blue in the face.
You all know,
trust the process.
But we don't sometimes.
You have to catch yourself feeling the anxiety and the discomfort of progress
(17:01):
and the word that pops into your head needs to be trust.
Trust all kinds of things.
Trust the process,
trust the model,
trust the child,
trust yourself.
Trust your skills,
trust your competence,
trust everything.
As soon as you let go,
you know what?
Trust requires letting go.
(17:23):
You know,
the whole like trust fall concept.
You just blindly fall backwards and you trust someone's gonna catch you.
You,
you cannot let go
if you don't have trust.
Let go and fall back on your awareness of the importance of trust.
(17:43):
And
above all else.
We cannot
get so caught up in our own.
Sense of what needs to happen or should happen or should be happening.
We should be past resistance by now.
I should not have had 7 lobby sessions.
We should,
(18:03):
this kid should have already been playing out
dad's death.
I mean,
I don't know why that hasn't come up yet.
This kid
This is why
all we need is a child's name
before we play with them.
Because if we didn't have any context,
if we didn't know about any of the notes home,
if we didn't know about dad's death,
if we didn't know about the bad day at school,
(18:24):
if we didn't know about the expulsion threats,
if we didn't know about
the tantrums,
about hitting sister,
about whatever,
if we knew none of that.
I don't think we would have as much progress anxiety.
We feel that
because we know too much.
And knowing too much
makes us want to do something,
(18:45):
fix something,
solve something
and other people are expecting that of us too.
It's not just that we feel that we have the external pressures of that.
It all comes back
to
you just need the kid's name.
And you just remain adherent.
It works.
We know it works.
(19:06):
I've also talked till I'm blue in the face about all
of the evidence and efficacy and data that supports this.
Guess what we don't have evidence for
when we deviate from the model.
That,
that's when you're in dangerous water,
y'all.
You,
you want to really start to question and doubt and,
and have no idea what's going on,
(19:26):
deviate from the model.
If you remain adherent,
you should have no progress anxiety.
You know it'll happen.
You know,
We've proven it
thousands of times,
anecdotally and empirically.
We know it works.
(19:47):
So you trust.
This is the CCPT mindset.
Progress anxiety cannot drive your session.
Is it uncomfortable at times?
Sure.
But you say
It might be uncomfortable,
but
I'm staying out of the way and I'm trusting.
And that keeps you in the model and it keeps you
(20:08):
adherent.
That's the goal,
relationship above all else.
That child has to feel unconditionally accepted by you.
Not
accepted if you dot dot dot.
No conditions,
no agenda,
unconditional acceptance preserves the relationship.
Unconditional trust keeps you adherent to the model.
(20:31):
Love y'all.
Hope you have a great week.
We'll talk again soon.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.
Brenna Hicks.
For more episodes and resources,
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.
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