316 | When Parents Join the Session: Why It Compromises the CCPT Model

In this episode, I answer a question from Hope in Kentucky about incorporating parents into the CCPT process. Her case involved a foster mom participating in session—and the outcome revealed why that’s not aligned with the CCPT model. I explain how parent presence in the playroom introduces variables that compromise neutrality, undermine the therapeutic relationship, and make it difficult for children to fully engage in the process.

I also walk through the three-step limit-setting process and clarify how children experience limits when they’re set without neutrality or unconditional positive regard. This episode serves as both a case consultation and a broader conversation about how we engage parents—highlighting why CPRT and filial work must remain separate from CCPT sessions. When we preserve the model, we preserve the child’s freedom, safety, and capacity for growth.

PlayTherapyNow.com is my HUB for everything I do! playtherapynow.com. Sign up for my email newsletter, stay ahead with the latest CCPT CEU courses, personalized coaching opportunities and other opportunities you need to thrive in your CCPT practice. If you click one link in these show notes, this is the one to click!

If you would like to ask me questions directly, check out www.ccptcollective.com, where I host two weekly Zoom calls filled with advanced CCPT case studies and session reviews, as well as member Q&A. You can take advantage of the two-week free trial to see if the CCPT Collective is right for you.

Ask Me Questions: Call ‪[phone]‬, or email: [e-mail]
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APT Approved Play Therapy CE courses: https://childcenteredtraining.com
Twitter: @thekidcounselor https://twitter.com/thekidcounselor
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Common References:
Cochran, N., Nordling, W., & Cochran, J. (2010). Child-Centered Play Therapy (1st ed.). Wiley.
VanFleet, R., Sywulak, A. E., & Sniscak, C. C. (2010). Child-centered play therapy. Guilford Press.
Landreth, G.L. (2023). Play Therapy: The Art of the Relationship (4th ed.). Routledge.
Bratton, S. C., Landreth, G. L., Kellam, T., & Blackard, S. R. (2006). Child parent relationship therapy (CPRT) treatment manual: A 10-session filial therapy model for training parents. Routledge/Taylor & Francis Group.
Benedict, Helen. Themes in Play Therapy. Used with permission to Heartland Play Therapy Institute.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,
your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
Hi,
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
The Kid Counselor.
This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get
a master class in child-centered play therapy
and practical support and application for your
work with children and their families.
In today's episode,

(00:20):
I am answering a question from Hope in Kentucky.
Hello to my Kentuckians.
Go Wildcats.
All of y'all are such rabid Wildcats fans.
I know I can universally say that
with your blue cars and your blue everything.
All right,
so
we are going to talk about incorporating parents

(00:41):
and remaining adherent to CCPT today
as a result of Hope's questions.
So I'm gonna read parts of that in just a second.
I just have a couple of housekeeping things.
First and foremost,
if you are new to the podcast,
and I know that happens every single episode.
So if this is one of your earliest episodes
that you've listened to or maybe your first ever,
welcome,
so glad you're here.
Thank you for being a part of the Play Therapy Podcast family.

(01:04):
However,
not a however,
and
we're so glad you're here.
Welcome.
And
please make sure that you go back and listen from episode one.
This is a seminal curriculum content driven podcast.
And if you skip ahead to the end,
you've missed
all of the really important basis and foundation
for what we're talking about now.

(01:25):
So it would be really helpful if you go back also.
CPRT code is coming for $100 off
for all of you podcast people.
So for those of you that have been waiting with bated breath,
you probably
died of lack of oxygen a long time ago,
but
it's finally here
and we are launching next week on Monday,

(01:45):
July 7th.
So on the 7th,
we will be releasing a code for podcast listeners so that
you will be able to get $100 off the course.
I hope you will take advantage of that.
That's going to save you a lot of money
and you get 16 APT approved CEUs,
and it's going to give you everything you need to facilitate.
CPRT with confidence,

(02:06):
not just the content itself,
but also the direct facilitation coaching as well.
You get to see me actually teaching parents
and coaching parents with the content.
So
the most comprehensive CPRT course that's out there,
really excited about it.
You'll be able to get a code on Monday,
July 7th,
so stay tuned for that.
All righty,

(02:26):
let me read a couple of components of Hope's email and then we'll dive in together.
With a lot of my younger clients ages 3 to 5,
I've been,
I've begun incorporating parents into session using more of a
filial therapy approach of modeling and teaching parents these skills.
Your Play Therapy Parenting Podcast has been invaluable for this as well.
I'm glad,
Hope.
And for those of you that may not know about that,

(02:48):
that's a really helpful segue while I'm
taking a left turn really quickly.
For those of you that maybe are not familiar with my parenting podcast,
that actually began first.
So the play therapy.
parenting podcast has been around longer
and that is geared for parents with CCPT as the foundations of a parenting approach.
So if you do not refer parents to that podcast and or

(03:10):
if you do not take advantage of that as a resource,
please do so.
It will really help support your parents.
It provides them with psycho education,
it provides them with resources and some coaching in the CCPT model,
and that is available on play therapy parenting.
dot com.
All right,
so let me continue with the email.

(03:31):
Recently I ran into a dilemma when using limit setting with a 4 year old client.
He has a trauma history but a strong bond with his foster mother,
who he's been placed with for 2 years.
I set a limit with him in session.
The toys aren't for putting in our mouths.
He put the toy in his mouth again right after I said it.
I think he wasn't quite sure what I said,
and his foster mother repeated it in a slightly more stern but still kind voice.

(03:53):
He then got really sad,
shut down,
and became unresponsive for several minutes.
I tried reflecting his feelings back to him and
giving him choices to play in other ways,
reassuring him that I was not upset.
Nothing I tried seemed to work,
and the foster mother eventually just reverted to
how she would normally handle the situation,
telling him that he could either stop pouting and keep playing,
or that our play session would need to end so that

(04:14):
he could go home and take a nap to feel better.
I would love any advice on how to manage this response to limit setting in a
more child-centered way and coach the foster mother in how to do so as well.
OK.
That's a lot.
We're gonna dive in
first and foremost,
we
at our center and we as CCPTs

(04:35):
are very much in favor of incorporating parents.
We know that the outcomes are better.
We know that when parents are more involved
we have more longitudinal impact from the.
Work that we do
and we know that the filial
approach is effective because relationship already exists
between parent and child.
It has to be created from scratch between us and the child.

(04:56):
So why not have parents involved in the filial side of things?
So I am 100% in favor of that.
Here's where we need to make some tweaks,
Hope,
and maybe this is appropriate for many of
you that are trying to incorporate parents.
If we're going to incorporate parents,
we do so in a filial therapy model
where we coach parents and the child is not present.

(05:19):
We do not
have parents in session with kids.
That is not aligned with CCPT.
And the CPRT facilitation,
for example,
has parents doing play sessions with their children in their own homes,
and they get to practice what they're learning in a play session,
but it is at home between the two of them.

(05:41):
We don't ever want a parent in the room
when we're providing CCPT
for a lot of reasons.
I'll hit some highlights.
The first is
it introduces variables that we are not able to control.
It is a breach of confidentiality
and it is
potentially undermining of the therapeutic relationship

(06:03):
because it is no longer the dyad of us
and the child now there's another person in the room
and that dynamic shifts many times,
the conversation,
the vibe,
the tone,
etc.
which is exactly what you experienced hope in what you're describing.
So we absolutely want to involve parents.
We want parents to be coached and trained.
We want to provide them with skills and psycho education and resources,

(06:28):
but it is independent of our work with the child.
We need to keep those lines separated
to make sure that CCPT
is adherently executed.
When mom is in the room,
what you're describing is a very consistent standard concern.
So let's talk through that.
You set the limit,

(06:49):
the toys aren't for putting in our mouths,
and I suspect maybe that was truncated for the email's sake.
We want to make sure that we do all three steps of that limit.
So I'm hopeful,
hope that you said,
I didn't mean to do that.
I suspect,
hope
that you would have said,
oh,
you put that in your mouth,
but the toys are not for putting in our mouths.

(07:09):
You can choose
to put that
in the sand,
or you can choose to put that on the floor,
which do you choose?
So we would want to go through all three pieces of the limit setting process
so that the child feels understood,
the neutral limit has been set and there are alternatives to the behavior.
And he did it again right away.

(07:29):
Whether that was confusion,
whether it was misunderstanding,
whether it was testing of limits,
whether it was boundaries,
and he doesn't really know how to comply.
I don't know,
maybe you don't either,
but now mom
has interjected,
so now mom is setting the limit
in a different tone of voice.

(07:50):
That no longer is
unconditional acceptance between you and the child.
Mom has now intervened and mom has now interjected.
And it completely
defeated and dejected
the child.
He got sad,
shut down and became unresponsive.
All right,
so then you move into damage control mode.

(08:10):
You're trying to reflect his feelings
and give him choices to play in other ways.
The thing that you said next is where we need to be really careful.
You said
I was reassuring him that I was not upset with him.
When we don't have a third person in the room,
we never have to reassure a child that we're not upset with them.

(08:32):
Because if we are adherent to the model,
it's unconditional acceptance.
What was missing and what Mom did was the neutrality.
And that's why neutrality matters so much
in our CCPT approach.
Because it was very clear to your client.
That that did not feel unconditionally accepted,

(08:52):
and he did not feel that it was neutrally set.
That's why he shut down.
So you saying you're trying to reinforce that you are not upset with him,
that wouldn't have even been necessary if Mom wouldn't have been in the room.
That's another illustration of why it's just us and the child.
And you said nothing that you tried seemed to work.

(09:13):
The
component of that
is where we don't rescue a child,
we don't try to convince a child to be happy.
We don't try to convince a child to play.
We don't try to
distract a child or
make them feel like it's not a big deal.
We sit in the pocket of the feelings that the child is experiencing.

(09:34):
And we patiently and expectantly wait for them to sort it out themselves.
And so again,
mom's rushing the process here.
She has an agenda.
So instead of you being able to sit in the pocket with him,
And you being able to just say,
you've decided that you're not ready to play yet,
you're still a little bit upset.

(09:56):
You really wish that
you
could have put that toy in your mouth.
You're choosing to just sit,
you're choosing not to play yet.
We're patient and we sit in the pocket,
and we validate and we make sure the child feels heard and understood.
But mom kicks in
and says,
you can either stop pouting and keep playing.

(10:16):
That's a threat.
Or
our play session would need to end.
Yikes!
Kids can't earn or lose play sessions,
ever.
Nothing they do or don't do say or don't say ever
earns them a session or loses them a session.
If he chose to sit there for the rest of the time and do nothing,

(10:39):
that is child centeredness.
That is unconditional acceptance.
That's our neutrality honoring where he is and what he's choosing to do.
So my mom saying stop pouting and play,
or we're going to go home and you don't get to play anymore.
It's agenda,
it's control,
it's dictatorial,

(11:01):
and now all of a sudden,
he's threatened with,
he has to do something or he's not gonna be able to play.
That is flying in the face of CCPT.
Again,
another reason why parents are not in the room.
And let me go a little bit deeper onto that because
I've actually been getting a lot of emails lately with therapists saying,

(11:21):
and mom was in the room,
dad was in the room,
caregiver was in the room.
I actually watched a play session video this week in coaching where
mom was in the room for the start of the play session.
So this is a very common thing.
I actually got an instant or a DM on Instagram.
This week,
about the same thing.
So this is a very pervasive thing that's going on right now.

(11:43):
Why do we not have parents in the room?
For all the reasons I've already shared,
as well as
Kids do not feel safe and comfortable.
Being truly raw and vulnerable
when they have to protect their loved ones from their junk.
They can't have abandon,
they can't have reduction of inhibitions,

(12:04):
they can't say the things they want to do,
they can't do the things they wanna do,
they can't play in the ways they want to play
if they have to safeguard against their parent's reaction.
Parents can't handle what goes on in play sessions.
When the kid handcuffs you and
has you lay on the ground and they act like they're gonna stomp on your head,

(12:25):
no parent can handle that.
When you get hit in the mouth with a Hotwheels car
and your tooth breaks through your lip and you start bleeding,
no parent can handle that.
When a kid screams and hits Bobo,
bloody murder,
aggression,
a parent cannot handle that.
This is why we're the neutral objective third party

(12:48):
because we can handle it.
We know it's valuable we know it's significant,
we know it's therapeutic,
we know it's necessary we know all these things
because we understand the model and we have the neutrality
of it not impacting us.
Parents cannot distance themselves
from their parent role.

(13:09):
So kids are not only protective of their loved ones,
but parents can't handle
what has to happen in play sessions for self-actualization to occur.
Mom could not handle hope
that he wasn't playing.
But he can choose not to play.
He can choose to just sit in his feelings and not do anything.

(13:32):
Natural consequence of decisions,
he chose to put a toy in his mouth.
Now he's choosing to deal with the outcome of that.
That is healthy and appropriate for him.
It helps him learn to comply with boundaries,
and then he gets threatened that he's gonna lose his play time
if he doesn't shape up and do what he's supposed to do.

(13:53):
That is no longer at all CCPT.
So parents cannot be in the room,
they can't handle it,
kids can't do the work they need to do.
It doesn't preserve their confidentiality.
So many reasons
why we absolutely want parents involved.
We want to help them,

(14:14):
equip them,
support them,
encourage them,
train them,
psycho educate them,
all of it.
But that takes place in adult sessions.
That is not in the room with the child
during CCPT.
That is a very different approach.
That's why CPRT,
the filial model,
is geared that you meet with the parents only,

(14:36):
and parents practice with their children at home.
That keeps the appropriate division that we need.
So hope,
thank you for sharing that.
I hope that that is encouraging to all of you.
I hope that
that helps you understand the rationale
behind making sure that it is clear
to parents and children,

(14:56):
the playroom is just for you and me.
They need to know that from the get-go,
because that is what preserves the model,
and that's what allows us to remain fully adherent.
All right,
love y'all.
We'll talk again soon.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.
Brenna Hicks.
For more episodes and resources,

(15:18):
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.