286 | CCPT Purism: How Garry Landreth Established and Preserved the Integrity of the Child-Centered Play Therapy Model - Play Therapy Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,
your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
Hi,
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
The Kid Counselor.
This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get
a master class in child-centered play therapy
and practical support and application for your
work with children and their families.
In today's episode,

(00:20):
we are talking further in the CCPT purism series
today about Garry Landreth,
the man himself.
And
what a fun series.
I really truly am enjoying this and I know that you all have given me feedback,
so I appreciate it.
By the way,
if you are new to the podcast,
maybe this is the very first episode you've ever listened to.

(00:42):
So glad you're here.
Welcome.
You have found
an absolutely supportive,
encouraging,
amazing community.
So really glad that you're here.
Not to
say don't listen.
Finish this episode,
but then please go back and listen in order.
From episode one
so that you really get a seminal training and

(01:04):
understanding of the theory and of the model.
I know new people find the podcast every single day,
which is so amazing to me
to
been given the opportunity to have this platform,
and thank you to all of my vets,
those of you that have been around from the very beginning.
Thank you to.
All of you who so faithfully and
tirelessly promote this podcast to your colleagues

(01:27):
and your co-workers and other therapists,
and thank you to those of you
who faithfully and tirelessly promote the parenting podcast
to your families and your clients.
Both podcast audiences have grown so much
in Recent months and I know that that is because of how invested you all are in
you are all in

(01:48):
whatever
in this
in this podcast with me.
So I love y'all you know that,
but if you are new,
we're so glad you're here.
If you've been around,
I'm super appreciative for how long you've hung out with me
and all the places that we go together.
So,
let's dive into Garry Landreth today,
and I love the idea of exploring how he became the central figure.

(02:11):
In the
official formalizing and naming
of child-centered play therapy
because Rogers,
Axline and the Guerneys,
which we've covered in earlier episodes,
they laid the practical foundation
and they established the philosophical
principles,
but Landreth gave the model structure

(02:32):
and clarity and actually provided it with a name.
And that allowed
its legacy to continue in such a way that stayed true to its roots.
So we're gonna dive in a little bit to his contributions.
So we've looked at Rogers,
Axline the Gurneys.
Today we're moving into what I would consider to be the modern
era of CCPT.

(02:54):
And when it was named and then defined
and then has since been defended.
One of the most important.
People
in that scenario is Garry Landreth.
He did not invent CCPT obviously,
we've already talked about its origins,
but he gave it what I would consider to be its

(03:15):
known identity.
And he has helped generations of therapists understand what it is,
but maybe more importantly,
what it isn't.
And I think that that is probably more important than maybe what it is.
It's what it isn't.
That's really powerful.
And for those of you that maybe do not know this,

(03:37):
I don't say this often.
I think my coaching folks know this,
maybe the Collective members,
I'm not sure,
but
I am one person removed from Garry Landreth.
So I was at the University of South Florida.
And Jennifer Baggerley left UNT,
got a position at USF,
and she taught me child-centered play therapy

(03:58):
and she taught under Garry Landreth at UNT so.
We always talk about,
well,
we,
I say Eric and I talk.
I don't know that everyone talks about this,
probably not,
we're the weirdos,
but we talk about your CCPT tree.
We use that phrase a lot,
you know,
what's your,
what's your training?
What is the path
through which you learned about CCPT?

(04:20):
And many times it's not really a direct path.
It's a workshop here and a conference here and a training here and a conference whatever,
you know,
so it's kind of piecemeal.
But then there are others,
it's like,
oh,
I learned about it in grad school from this professor.
Well,
where did that professor learn about it?
Oh,
from this person.
So you can usually trace back kind of like a family tree,
if you will,

(04:41):
your roots
in CCPT.
So I always think about Landreth and then Baggerly and then myself,
and I'm so grateful for that.
I mean,
gosh,
I've thought about that so many times.
Baggerly was only at USF for a very short window before she moved back to Texas.
And I think about that all the time.
I would have never been exposed.

(05:01):
I mean maybe through another channel,
but Baggerly is the reason that I learned about play therapy in the first place,
and
she trained under Landreth and she trained me and
was a huge support and mentor for me,
continues to be so.
I still text her once in a while and check in on things.
And we,
we all have that story of
how did we come to know about CCPT,

(05:23):
fall in love with CCPT,
and what is the path
from the top down.
And you know that whole like 7 stages of separation from Kevin Bacon thing
which
I still don't really fully understand that whole thing,
but
anyway,
you know how many degrees of separation
do you have from
one of these pioneers

(05:44):
and maybe you can't even track that,
but that's always interesting to consider because
different camps teach different things even within CCPT,
you know.
You have Van Fleet,
you have the Cochrans,
you have Landreth.
There are some variations
of CCPT and so it's important to know
what your direct path is.

(06:05):
And
because I'm
talking to you all,
you are 100% in the Landreth path
because
Landreth, Baggerly me,
now you,
you are 100% in the Landreth tree,
just to let you know.
So let's look about look a little bit about Garry Landreth.
So he was a professor at University of North Texas.

(06:25):
He actually founded the Center for Play Therapy there.
He was deeply influenced by Axline's work
because it was so firmly rooted in person
centered theory.
He
shared with me on a phone call a while ago that he was
communicating with Carl Rogers.

(06:45):
Directly several times communicating with Axline several times
and therefore he took all of that information
and spent decades teaching
and writing
and supervising and advocating
for the pure practice of CCPT.
So why did he name it child-centered play therapy?

(07:05):
I think it's important to kind of dive into that for a second.
It emphasizes that the child is central.
It is not the therapist,
it is not an objective,
it's not a treatment plan or a goal.
And this separated
this model from other play therapy approaches
that tended to be more directive

(07:27):
or structured or protocol based.
And when you think about the name,
if you break it down.
Who leads
the child.
What's central?
The child's internal process.
And what's our role
to support,

(07:47):
not direct.
And when you
think about those components.
Child leads,
the child's internal process is central and we support,
we don't direct.
That encompasses the entire model
in the name,
which is why I love the simplicity of the name.
And his message has always been,

(08:08):
it's not what you do with a child that heals,
it's who you are in the relationship.
This
is why we talk about this is a way of being.
It's a process of becoming.
It's expectancy,
not expectation.
We don't do this,
we are this.
I mean,
I,

(08:28):
I beat those phrases into your heads for a reason
because that's Landreth's core message with the
whole development of child-centered play therapy.
It is not what you do with a child that heals it is who you are in the relationship.
And he consistently called therapists back to the essence of the model

(08:48):
again and again
your presence.
Trust
and emotional availability
if you have those three components
that is fully child-centered in nature.
So as you know,
I hope if you don't,
if you're new,
if you have never
done any kind of deep dive into CCPT,

(09:09):
then
this is a really helpful series for you.
If you are not familiar with Art of the Relationship,
you need to own that book,
you need to read that book,
and you need to deeply understand
what is in that book.
It was first published in '91.
It is now in its fourth edition,
and it is the definitive text
on CCPT.

(09:30):
There are clinical examples in there.
There's very clear articulation of what it means
to fully be
child-centered,
and
you get all kinds of stuff in that book.
I mean,
honestly,
I can't even tell you all the richness in it,
but I mean,
you get rationale behind non-directivity,
you get your,
you know,
4 pillars and the core tenants,

(09:51):
you get how to structure your playroom,
you get the therapist mindset.
I mean,
everything you could think of
it.
It is one of the most important purchases that you will make
if you are fully committed to this model,
you need to read this book cover to cover,
and you need to really truly understand everything that he shares in there.

(10:12):
That's
one of the most important things that you could
do with your time when you're not seeing clients.
So one of the other really important elements of
his work is that he trained thousands of therapists,
specifically through CCPT supervision models.
And there was really finally for the first time,
a very clear path for therapists to

(10:34):
learn the model.
So,
I wanna share a couple of thoughts.
I've actually never said these to
the podcast audience before.
As part of his training and supervision,
he introduced concepts like
the therapist is an instrument.
And I,
I just love the implication of that phrase
that we are an instrument.

(10:56):
And then another concept that he introduced
is that the relationship is the therapy.
So therapy is not the therapy,
the relationship is the therapy.
Activities are not the therapy,
directives are not the therapy,
agenda is not the therapy,
the relationship is the therapy.
And the concept of being with

(11:16):
rather than doing to.
We talk about the be with attitudes all the time,
by the way,
pop quiz,
what are they?
Thank you.
I'm here.
I hear you.
I understand,
I care and I delight in you.
However,
I don't often talk about the contrast of the being with rather than the doing to.

(11:36):
We're never doing
anything to kids.
We're just being with them.
There's such special
consideration there.
And at a time when directive models were really taking off.
I mean,
the,
the,
the popular approach
was directive models with children.
Landreth never wavered,
he always stood firm.

(11:58):
And he wrote and spoke often
about why CCPT is different.
And we know,
we know how special CCPT is.
We know how different it is,
but he spoke about it a lot and he wrote about it a lot,
and he evangelized and he advocated why?
Because he believed wholeheartedly.
Still does.
I,
I'm sure I could ask him right now,

(12:20):
and he would say 100%
watering CCPT down
makes it ineffective.
I talk about the dilution
of
CCPT all the time,
and that's the notion that came directly from Garry Landreth.
If we water it down,
it becomes ineffective.

(12:40):
And he advocated for above all purity of the model.
Depth over tools.
That's a really big one.
And relationship over results.
Because we know that the tools
don't matter in the grand scheme of things,
and we know that the results will naturally emerge
when the environment and the relationship or the way that they should be.

(13:03):
So thanks to Landreth,
CCPT has a very clear identity that has
been established in the world of play therapy.
There is a deep community of fully committed practitioners,
you being a part of that community as a result
of you being a part of this podcast audience.
And the model has endured despite cultural
and clinical pressures to make it more directive

(13:25):
that
that is a very real felt pressure
for all of us all the time
it's one of the most consistent conversations that I have
is how much pressure
that we feel to
be more directive from everywhere and everyone.
But
Landreth students and readers and everyone

(13:46):
that knows anything about Landreth's work.
You know,
there's,
there's a legacy of
training and programs and private practice and supervision and all these things
that have come out of his work.
So I think above all,
we,
we owe it
to Landreth
to preserve the integrity of the model

(14:08):
because without him we wouldn't have
the
name,
we wouldn't have the clear identity,
we wouldn't have the clear training process.
And he has so deeply been committed to preservation of the model.
And
it wasn't just
naming the model to brand it.
Which obviously,
you know,

(14:28):
you need
brand recognition for things,
right?
You,
you see the little
curved line with the arrow right facing
and you automatically know that's Amazon Prime,
right?
You just,
you start to recognize things just because of branding,
but he did not establish CCPT
to brand the model.
It was a line in the sand.

(14:49):
He drew a line in the sand.
And said
this is how I'm going to be with children.
This is what I know to be the most effective approach for children.
This is what I wholeheartedly will trust as a process
child-centered play therapy.
It's preservation and it's being very clear and distinct on what we're all about.

(15:14):
So as CCPTs today,
I think it's important to keep asking.
Am I really living the model,
or do I modify it?
Sometimes for comfort,
sometimes for pressure,
sometimes for ease?
Am I truly living the model,
or am I modifying it because it seems easier or more comfortable?

(15:37):
And am I practicing CCPT?
From a place of trust
of the model.
Or from control.
Because let me tell you right now,
if you want control,
CCPT is not going to be easy for you.
CCPT requires a letting go of all control.

(16:00):
And just embracing it for what it is,
and trusting the process and trusting the child and building the relationship
and knowing that self enhancing behaviors will emerge.
But there's no control.
So,
here's the the way that I kind of would like to sum up Landreth's work.
If you think about

(16:21):
cake making.
I actually just baked a cake for our cake auction at church.
Every year,
there's an annual cake auction and it benefits
all of the family ministries in the church.
So kids ministries,
youth ministries,
all that.
And
the,
the cakes sell for a lot of money,
y'all.
My,
my cakes go for high dollars.

(16:42):
So I made a snickerdoodle cake this year,
and I don't fancy myself a baker,
in,
in truth,
I,
I'm not a baker,
but
I can,
I can hold my own with baking cakes.
So it's interesting,
the way that I think about this is Landreth did not come up with the ingredients.
But he baked the cake and gave it a name.

(17:03):
So he took existing ingredients,
and he did something with it,
and he identified
what it is.
And that provided clarity to us,
and the clarity is what allows CCPT to
be what it is today.
So,
Landreth is
really at the forefront of everything

(17:25):
as what we understand to be modern CCPT today.
So next time,
we're going to explore how CCPT is still intentional and structured.
In other words,
we can very clearly say it's non-directive.
But we also believe and know that it is very intentional and very structured
and why that structure matters more now

(17:46):
than ever.
So stay tuned for that one.
All right,
y'all,
thanks for hanging out with me.
You know how much I love you.
If you want to reach out,
please do brenna@thekidcounselor.com,
can't wait to talk with you again.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.
Brenna Hicks.
For more episodes and resources,
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.

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286 | CCPT Purism: How Garry Landreth Established and Preserved the Integrity of the Child-Centered Play Therapy Model

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}286 | CCPT Purism: How Garry Landreth Established and Preserved the Integrity of the Child-Centered Play Therapy Model