April 29, 2025 • 25 mins
In this episode of the CCPT Purism series, I talk about the reality of practicing child-centered play therapy in a world that doesn’t understand it. From insurance documentation and school interventions to parent expectations and supervisor pushback, we’re constantly surrounded by pressure to explain, modify, or justify our model. These pressures don’t just challenge our clinical stance—they create dissonance that can lead to burnout, confusion, and drifting from the model we believe in.
I walk through the most common external pressures we face and how to respond to each one while holding the line. From using intentional language and redefining progress to setting clear expectations and surrounding ourselves with supportive community, this episode is a call to courage and clarity. We may not be understood by everyone—but the child always gets it. And that’s who we’re here for.
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Ask Me Questions: Call (813) 812-5525, or email: brenna@thekidcounselor.com
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APT Approved Play Therapy CE courses: https://childcenteredtraining.com
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Common References:
Cochran, N., Nordling, W., & Cochran, J. (2010). Child-Centered Play Therapy (1st ed.). Wiley.
VanFleet, R., Sywulak, A. E., & Sniscak, C. C. (2010). Child-centered play therapy. Guilford Press.
Landreth, G.L. (2023). Play Therapy: The Art of the Relationship (4th ed.). Routledge.
Bratton, S. C., Landreth, G. L., Kellam, T., & Blackard, S. R. (2006). Child parent relationship therapy (CPRT) treatment manual: A 10-session filial therapy model for training parents. Routledge/Taylor & Francis Group.
Benedict, Helen. Themes in Play Therapy. Used with permission to Heartland Play Therapy Institute.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,
your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
Hi,
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
The Kid Counselor.
This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get
a master class in child-centered play therapy
and practical support and application for your
work with children and their families.
In today's episode,
(00:20):
we are continuing in the CCPT purism series.
This will be the 2nd to last one.
Next episode,
we will be wrapping up the series.
And I am grateful for all of you who have reached out to me about this.
I'm glad it's been resonating.
Before we dive in,
very important updates.
We now have a time and date for the next live podcast event.
(00:43):
So on Friday,
May 16th
at 1:30 p.m. Eastern,
so please adjust your time zones accordingly.
I know a lot of you,
not a lot,
several of you missed the last live call because
you were not aware of the time change.
So make sure that you know that is 1:30 p.m. Eastern time
and you'll need to calculate depending on where you are.
(01:05):
Friday,
May 16th at 1:30 p.m.
and to RSVP for this,
so I know how many are coming.
I used to have a 100 cap.
I actually increased my Zoom
package or account or whatever.
I don't know,
above my pay grade,
but I did whatever I'm supposed to do so that I can have up to 500 on the call.
So there will be no cap,
(01:26):
but we still need to know who's coming
so that we have your contact info and then we
can stay in touch with you and give you updates,
etc.
etc.
So
playtherapypodcast.com/live
And again,
Friday,
May 16th at 1:30,
we had a ton of people on that call last time and it was so much fun.
I'm going to be sharing some thoughts at the beginning and then we'll do a live Q&A.
(01:48):
And this is specifically for you all,
my listeners,
because my coaching and my Collective people
get the Q&A with me all the time.
But if you are a podcast listener and you do not have access to me on a regular basis,
this is specifically for you.
I want to put a face with a name with a location and have
a chance to interact and answer questions and just spend a Friday together.
(02:10):
So,
May 16th at 1:30 Eastern,
playtherapypodcast.com/live
All right.
So let's dive into
the topic today.
And today we're moving into practicing CCPT
in a world that doesn't understand it.
And
we've covered a lot in the series,
(02:30):
meaningfully,
I hope
so
we've kind of gone
from the roots,
the development
through the structure,
the integrity of CCPT we've kind of gone in a progression
and
what's interesting is
I have noticed that even when therapists believe in the model.
(02:51):
The world around us
makes it hard to practice it sometimes.
And this is for a variety of reasons.
We have external pressure we have misunderstanding,
we have myths,
we have
systems in place that are
just theoretically opposed
to the child-centered model.
So specifically today we're going to talk about how to stay committed to CCPT
(03:15):
even when it doesn't fit the mold of most systems and the expectations
of others.
So,
essentially kind of what I'd like to unpack is
the real world tension
that we're up against.
And whether we
label it as that,
whether we would identify it as such,
we all feel it.
(03:37):
There is a tension and there is
an undercurrent of disconnect.
And staying faithful
to a relational model.
That is non-directive
and that is child-centered.
In a professional culture
that rewards
everything
in a different direction.
(03:58):
So,
what are we always looking at in the way of rewards?
Well,
professionally,
we want to have control.
We want to have outcomes,
we want to have speed.
And all of those things fly in the face of CCPT.
So of course there's going to be tension,
and
(04:18):
I want to just process this because
I think if we feel
collectively as a whole,
that we are seen and validated and
understood
and re-centered
in our conviction.
Even if the world around us doesn't get it,
I think we can cling to each other
and find what we need to remain adherent to the model
(04:41):
within our people,
our tribe,
if you will.
So let's talk about some external pressures because I think we have to start there.
What,
what are the pressures that we're up against?
What are we facing
in the way of a professional culture
that rewards those things that we just mentioned,
control and outcomes and speed?
Well,
first and foremost,
insurance.
(05:02):
And then of course with insurance comes documentation.
So,
when we accept insurance,
we have pressure for treatment planning.
We have pressure for treatment goals.
We have pressure for measurable outcomes.
And then we have to document
and have evidence that we're meeting all of these goals and objectives and plans.
(05:24):
Well,
another layer
is that
sometimes there's only short session approvals.
In other words,
you might have a 6, 8,
12 session cap
that insurance will agree to.
So,
if you are limited to 12 sessions,
for example,
they're expecting speed of treatment.
(05:45):
And that doesn't align with the model.
So,
insurance is always going to err on the side of directive,
always going to err on the side of quick.
And it's going to err on the side of
treatment goals,
plans,
and outcomes.
And unfortunately,
CCPT has been misunderstood
(06:08):
and often it gets labeled as
not evidence-based,
not true.
Too passive,
not true,
too lengthy,
not true.
But
it flies up against
the insurance goals,
which are very different.
Another source of external pressure is schools and or agencies.
(06:30):
Because
understandably so,
especially in the schools,
they want
an immediate remedy
for what's going on.
Because we have to fix this behavior
or the child's going to get suspended,
the child's going to get expelled.
The child is going to have to go into specialty classrooms.
(06:50):
And
teachers and administrators,
faculty,
staff,
whomever,
they often work from
a very strategic model.
In other words,
everything has a strategy.
And
they want kids to learn coping skills,
for example.
They want kids to have directive activities that are
going to help them manage things in the classroom.
(07:13):
What to do when,
right?
So when you get angry,
deep breathe.
Well,
kids aren't rational.
So we're always going to come back to that,
and
that's not
based on relationship.
It's focusing on the problem,
not the child,
and it's expecting children to have developmental capacity to be cognitive
(07:34):
and neither one of those are age appropriate.
So we have the pressure from schools,
obviously,
and
of course,
they're going to
want
interventions and tools because
that's the academic model.
If someone needs to learn something,
you teach it,
you instruct it.
(07:55):
And again,
that's anti-theoretical to CCPT.
Another source of pressure
is
parent expectations.
What are you doing in there?
Exactly?
I mean,
I know you say you're playing,
but what,
what are you actually doing?
Are you talking to them about their anger?
(08:16):
Have you brought up the fact that they're
hitting their siblings and they need to stop?
Can you teach him to,
he,
he really wants coping strategies.
So if you would just talk to him about deep breathing maybe.
We have
parents that
want things to change,
understandably,
(08:37):
and therefore they have expectations.
Often unrealistic,
often
disaligned.
So
we're kind of fighting that battle too.
We always have pressure for quick results from parents too,
especially if they're
urgent.
If they're in a pretty severe situation,
they want
things to
(08:58):
quickly change.
And then they'll often say,
well,
can you give me some insight into
how this is actually going to work?
How is just playing with you going to fix their anxiety?
And so parents misunderstandings and expectations
can be another source of pressure.
(09:18):
And then finally,
colleague and or supervisor,
push back.
And gosh,
do I hear this all the time.
Oh my gosh,
I,
if I had a dime for every time someone
talked to me about a colleague or a supervisor that
just was not buying the CCPT
at all,
I'd be rich.
(09:40):
There are so often scenarios where we have
therapists or counselors or colleagues or even entire teams.
Sometimes we're in agencies or practices with entire teams.
That just don't understand
CCPT.
They just don't understand non-directivity.
And then
we get questioned.
(10:01):
We get criticized
We get berated sometimes.
We get told to deviate from the model.
And especially if we're in a supervisory relationship,
that is tricky
because the nature of a supervisee supervisor
is that the supervisee is supposed to concede
(10:21):
to the wisdom and knowledge and training and education of the supervisor.
So when the supervisor says
you just need to do an activity with them.
It's
very against everything we know about supervision.
To ignore them
But
if we don't ignore them,
then we're deviating from the model.
(10:43):
And we're getting pressured into doing something that we don't believe in.
And that can be very,
very sticky
to navigate.
So,
with all of that pressure.
What happens when we compromise?
Well,
we've talked about this a lot,
but
I'll hit some highlights for you,
just as a recap.
The moment we shift.
(11:05):
Because of pressure
toward the external expectations,
we dilute the model.
We're no longer adherent to the model.
We no longer have proven efficacy of the model.
And here's what happens.
We then are managing the child
instead of trusting them.
(11:26):
children don't need to be managed just like kids just don't,
oh my gosh,
children don't need to be managed,
just like kids don't need to be fixed.
We're not ever intending to manage kids.
We trust them.
And we
make it about them
because it's about the relationship.
(11:47):
And if the child is no longer leading sessions.
Then the play no longer transforms them.
Because now all of a sudden,
they are not freely and autonomously
playing the things that they need to,
so that they can heal and self-actualize.
As soon as we take over and we're leading,
(12:08):
any play the child's doing is no longer transformative.
Because the child isn't directing it.
And if any of those things happen,
and that essentially means that we compromised.
We end up burned out.
And we have internal dissonance.
Related aside,
random aside.
(12:30):
I don't know how many times I've mentioned this,
but I was in the International Baccalaureate program in high school.
And we had a class called Theory of Knowledge.
And Doctor Yarbrough was my teacher.
He
was an interesting chap.
Anyway,
he taught theory of knowledge in high school with a PhD,
so that probably gives you a really accurate picture of Doctor Yarborough.
(12:55):
And
I will never forget,
we were
in this course,
which was,
I mean,
theory of knowledge,
it's deep
philosophical pondering,
and you're,
you know,
like a junior in high school,
like,
how does your brain even conceive of it?
It didn't really.
But I will never forget him bringing up the notion of cognitive dissonance.
And
he is trying to explain this concept.
(13:18):
And says,
OK,
what is that on the wall?
And he points at the clock.
You know,
I think most of us probably said a clock,
and he was like,
but is it a clock?
Or is it a perception of a clock?
And gets into this whole thing about,
well,
it might not be a clock to someone else in a different culture,
or what if you've never seen a clock before?
What if you don't know the word for a clock?
(13:39):
And
anyway,
it was just way too deep for my 16, 17 year old brain.
But I remember the idea of cognitive dissonance,
and that's one of the few things that I took away from theory of knowledge.
And I was reading a book recently and it actually
reminded me of the cognitive dissonance talk from Dr.
Yarborough's class,
because
in the book,
(14:01):
they said,
what,
what way do the hands turn in a clock?
And the person said clockwise,
and they said,
not if you're in the clock.
So anyway,
just different perspective on things,
right?
And so when we think about if we compromise.
It creates dissonance for us
internal dissonance,
(14:21):
cognitive dissonance,
whatever you want to label it.
There's a dissonance.
All of a sudden we're confused.
We don't know what truth is anymore.
We don't know what to believe in anymore.
We don't know what we're adherent to anymore
because we've compromised and no wonder we get burned out.
No wonder we question everything.
No wonder we second-guess things.
No wonder we start to add in other things or take away things or
(14:44):
splice things in.
Why?
Because we have dissonance.
We're not even sure
about anything anymore.
This,
that's what happens when we compromise.
And I get it,
we have these external pressures,
and they kind of push us toward compromise,
push us toward concession.
And so this topic today specifically is about holding the line.
(15:07):
And really diligently digging your heels in and remaining adherent.
So what does that look like?
Well,
first,
I think you have to use language wisely.
We spend so much time in the coaching program talking about articulation.
Why?
Because we have to be able to communicate what we're doing,
even if others can't see it,
even if others don't understand it,
(15:27):
even if it never sinks into anybody,
we have to be able to articulate what we're doing.
And we also have to explain the model
in a parent friendly.
Teacher friendly,
pediatrician friendly,
fill in the person friendly language.
We fail miserably often.
(15:50):
At explaining what we do and why.
And that's why my coaching graduates
are
so well trained
in CCPT not only clinically
but practically because
they know how to answer questions,
they know how to communicate,
they can confidently articulate
what they're doing and why
in any scenario we have to be able to do that.
(16:12):
That helps us hold the line.
Secondly,
Big one,
gosh,
we have to redefine progress,
and I'm air quoting progress because
That's a whole other episode.
But
look,
we have to remind other people
that
sometimes growth is invisible in the early stages,
doesn't mean that
(16:33):
growth isn't being
experienced,
doesn't mean that growth isn't happening.
It's just that sometimes it's invisible.
And even if we see it,
maybe parents don't see it yet,
maybe teachers don't see it yet.
We have to redefine progress,
because even if a child is making progress,
sometimes it's hard to notice or even have evidence of it.
(16:54):
Also,
it's not linear.
We,
we can't think about an X Y axis and say up
and right is the way that a child moves in therapy.
They don't.
do they go up and right in a general
Path,
sure.
But it's more like
a wild roller coaster with
(17:15):
twists and turns and loop de loops and sliding backwards for
a while and barrel rolling and all kinds of other things.
We're,
we're eventually getting up and right,
but it's certainly not linear,
certainly not from point A to point B in a straight line.
And furthermore,
I think it's important to help
people understand that deeper change happens beneath
behavior that we see.
(17:37):
Change is happening beneath behavior.
We can't look at behavior as the only indication of whether or not we have progress.
Third,
I think we have to be clear.
Be really,
really intentional
and clear.
In your meetings with parents.
Set expectations from the start.
(17:59):
One of my favorite phrases,
clear as kind.
You have to have clarity in what you're sharing.
You have to set expectations.
You have to be able to articulate the model.
And from the get-go,
they have to know
this is non-directive.
The child is in charge.
(18:19):
I do not teach during sessions.
I'm not going to direct anything.
I don't have an agenda.
Change will happen as the child expresses
and resolves emotional issues.
It will be at their pace.
We have to make it clear what we will and will not do.
Along the lines of adherence to the model.
(18:41):
And then
another piece of the puzzle,
how do we hold the line?
We have to find supportive community
and
obviously you have because you're listening to me right now.
So I hope,
literally,
I hope and pray daily
that you all feel that this is a supportive community for you.
And
(19:02):
Collective people and coaching people to an even a higher degree,
you found supportive community.
This work is so lonely
if you are the only CCPT.
It's isolating,
it's lonely,
it's draining,
you're swimming upstream.
It's hard.
Stay connected to others who understand,
(19:23):
who get it,
who resonate,
who will reinforce your convictions.
And
we mentioned this before,
but
CCPT
is a mindset.
It's not just a model,
it is a model,
of course,
but it's a mindset.
And
A really interesting thought,
(19:45):
mindset needs community.
Mindset is so important.
It has to live within community.
So make sure that you have a supportive community,
and I hope this is part of that.
But you might need to pursue that on a local level or a virtual level
(20:06):
or through the Collective or whatever you can do
to surround yourself with other CCPTs who are like-minded.
So,
really quickly,
let's just briefly talk through a recommitment.
Or
maybe a
a consistent commitment.
We know CCPT works,
but
we have to stay in it.
(20:27):
We have to adhere.
We have to be diligent.
And
I don't really like this term,
but it's what popped into my head,
so just bear with me for a sec.
You can't sell out.
And often if we do.
If we compromise,
if we concede,
if we sell out,
it's to make someone else more comfortable.
(20:49):
And
strangely enough,
it never makes us more comfortable.
I've had so many therapists say to me,
actually,
I just had a discovery call last week about the coaching program,
and
she's in Ireland,
and she said,
quote,
my head was a mess,
end quote.
Because I had been trained in an integrative approach.
(21:11):
And my model
was to start child-centered
and then do,
and I don't even know,
she rattled off a list of theoretical models.
And then I was supposed to do Gestalt,
and then I was supposed to do Adlerian,
and then I was supposed to do Jungian and then I was then I
was supposed to do some CBT and then I was supposed to do.
And,
and I said,
I'm exhausted listening to you
rattle off that list,
(21:32):
and she said,
quote,
my head was a mess,
end quote.
And
if we sell out,
we are never on we are never comfortable,
and it's an attempt to make other people comfortable
and it rarely works.
Rarely
Try to make everyone happy,
you'll make no one happy.
(21:54):
Stay in the model because we know it works,
and of course there's pressure to conform
and the more pressure we're experiencing,
the more important it is to stay anchored.
So,
let me encourage you for a second
as we wrap up.
You're not strange.
You're not weird.
You're not behind the times.
(22:17):
You're not
rigid.
You're not
bucking the system.
You're not anti-authority,
you're not trying to
make a name for yourself.
You're courageous.
And you're brave
And you're deeply entrenched in a model that you know works.
(22:40):
And even if the model is not understood by everyone.
Everyone doesn't matter.
The child feels it.
The child experiences it.
The child knows it.
That's what it's about anyway.
So,
you're not any of the things that you've
maybe thought or you've had other people imply
(23:01):
or maybe even they've been so bold as to tell you directly to your face.
I've heard a lot of your stories about the things you've been called
and the things you've been accused of.
Let's just lay it all on the line.
You're none of those things.
And even if
the model is misunderstood by absolutely everyone.
It doesn't even matter
(23:22):
because it's never misunderstood by the child.
The child gets to experience it,
feel it,
see it,
know it
at the depth of who they are.
So when you feel pressure,
when you want to bend.
When
you're struggling to be adherent.
Hold firm
(23:42):
Speak truth with grace.
And rehearse how you're going to respond.
Be clear,
find your community.
Use language wisely,
redefine progress,
all the things we've talked about today.
Commit to the model.
It's the only way
that the child gets to experience what the child needs.
(24:06):
The child always gets it.
So that should be enough motivation.
To
be able to coast as long as we need to
and eventually
it becomes muscle memory
and then we
we get over the hump
but the climb is steep sometimes and the climb is tall and long sometimes
(24:28):
stay true.
Do what you know and what you believe in.
Which is CCPT.
Next
time,
final episode of the series,
we're going to kind of summarize everything
and remind why
this work matters so much.
So,
love y'all.
We'll talk again soon.
Bye.
(24:48):
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.
Brenna Hicks.
For more episodes and resources,
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.
You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,
your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
Hi,
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
The Kid Counselor.
This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get
a master class in child-centered play therapy
and practical support and application for your
work with children and their families.
In today's episode,
(00:20):
we are continuing in the CCPT purism series.
This will be the 2nd to last one.
Next episode,
we will be wrapping up the series.
And I am grateful for all of you who have reached out to me about this.
I'm glad it's been resonating.
Before we dive in,
very important updates.
We now have a time and date for the next live podcast event.
(00:43):
So on Friday,
May 16th
at 1:30 p.m. Eastern,
so please adjust your time zones accordingly.
I know a lot of you,
not a lot,
several of you missed the last live call because
you were not aware of the time change.
So make sure that you know that is 1:30 p.m. Eastern time
and you'll need to calculate depending on where you are.
(01:05):
Friday,
May 16th at 1:30 p.m.
and to RSVP for this,
so I know how many are coming.
I used to have a 100 cap.
I actually increased my Zoom
package or account or whatever.
I don't know,
above my pay grade,
but I did whatever I'm supposed to do so that I can have up to 500 on the call.
So there will be no cap,
(01:26):
but we still need to know who's coming
so that we have your contact info and then we
can stay in touch with you and give you updates,
etc.
etc.
So
playtherapypodcast.com/live
And again,
Friday,
May 16th at 1:30,
we had a ton of people on that call last time and it was so much fun.
I'm going to be sharing some thoughts at the beginning and then we'll do a live Q&A.
(01:48):
And this is specifically for you all,
my listeners,
because my coaching and my Collective people
get the Q&A with me all the time.
But if you are a podcast listener and you do not have access to me on a regular basis,
this is specifically for you.
I want to put a face with a name with a location and have
a chance to interact and answer questions and just spend a Friday together.
(02:10):
So,
May 16th at 1:30 Eastern,
playtherapypodcast.com/live
All right.
So let's dive into
the topic today.
And today we're moving into practicing CCPT
in a world that doesn't understand it.
And
we've covered a lot in the series,
(02:30):
meaningfully,
I hope
so
we've kind of gone
from the roots,
the development
through the structure,
the integrity of CCPT we've kind of gone in a progression
and
what's interesting is
I have noticed that even when therapists believe in the model.
(02:51):
The world around us
makes it hard to practice it sometimes.
And this is for a variety of reasons.
We have external pressure we have misunderstanding,
we have myths,
we have
systems in place that are
just theoretically opposed
to the child-centered model.
So specifically today we're going to talk about how to stay committed to CCPT
(03:15):
even when it doesn't fit the mold of most systems and the expectations
of others.
So,
essentially kind of what I'd like to unpack is
the real world tension
that we're up against.
And whether we
label it as that,
whether we would identify it as such,
we all feel it.
(03:37):
There is a tension and there is
an undercurrent of disconnect.
And staying faithful
to a relational model.
That is non-directive
and that is child-centered.
In a professional culture
that rewards
everything
in a different direction.
(03:58):
So,
what are we always looking at in the way of rewards?
Well,
professionally,
we want to have control.
We want to have outcomes,
we want to have speed.
And all of those things fly in the face of CCPT.
So of course there's going to be tension,
and
(04:18):
I want to just process this because
I think if we feel
collectively as a whole,
that we are seen and validated and
understood
and re-centered
in our conviction.
Even if the world around us doesn't get it,
I think we can cling to each other
and find what we need to remain adherent to the model
(04:41):
within our people,
our tribe,
if you will.
So let's talk about some external pressures because I think we have to start there.
What,
what are the pressures that we're up against?
What are we facing
in the way of a professional culture
that rewards those things that we just mentioned,
control and outcomes and speed?
Well,
first and foremost,
insurance.
(05:02):
And then of course with insurance comes documentation.
So,
when we accept insurance,
we have pressure for treatment planning.
We have pressure for treatment goals.
We have pressure for measurable outcomes.
And then we have to document
and have evidence that we're meeting all of these goals and objectives and plans.
(05:24):
Well,
another layer
is that
sometimes there's only short session approvals.
In other words,
you might have a 6, 8,
12 session cap
that insurance will agree to.
So,
if you are limited to 12 sessions,
for example,
they're expecting speed of treatment.
(05:45):
And that doesn't align with the model.
So,
insurance is always going to err on the side of directive,
always going to err on the side of quick.
And it's going to err on the side of
treatment goals,
plans,
and outcomes.
And unfortunately,
CCPT has been misunderstood
(06:08):
and often it gets labeled as
not evidence-based,
not true.
Too passive,
not true,
too lengthy,
not true.
But
it flies up against
the insurance goals,
which are very different.
Another source of external pressure is schools and or agencies.
(06:30):
Because
understandably so,
especially in the schools,
they want
an immediate remedy
for what's going on.
Because we have to fix this behavior
or the child's going to get suspended,
the child's going to get expelled.
The child is going to have to go into specialty classrooms.
(06:50):
And
teachers and administrators,
faculty,
staff,
whomever,
they often work from
a very strategic model.
In other words,
everything has a strategy.
And
they want kids to learn coping skills,
for example.
They want kids to have directive activities that are
going to help them manage things in the classroom.
(07:13):
What to do when,
right?
So when you get angry,
deep breathe.
Well,
kids aren't rational.
So we're always going to come back to that,
and
that's not
based on relationship.
It's focusing on the problem,
not the child,
and it's expecting children to have developmental capacity to be cognitive
(07:34):
and neither one of those are age appropriate.
So we have the pressure from schools,
obviously,
and
of course,
they're going to
want
interventions and tools because
that's the academic model.
If someone needs to learn something,
you teach it,
you instruct it.
(07:55):
And again,
that's anti-theoretical to CCPT.
Another source of pressure
is
parent expectations.
What are you doing in there?
Exactly?
I mean,
I know you say you're playing,
but what,
what are you actually doing?
Are you talking to them about their anger?
(08:16):
Have you brought up the fact that they're
hitting their siblings and they need to stop?
Can you teach him to,
he,
he really wants coping strategies.
So if you would just talk to him about deep breathing maybe.
We have
parents that
want things to change,
understandably,
(08:37):
and therefore they have expectations.
Often unrealistic,
often
disaligned.
So
we're kind of fighting that battle too.
We always have pressure for quick results from parents too,
especially if they're
urgent.
If they're in a pretty severe situation,
they want
things to
(08:58):
quickly change.
And then they'll often say,
well,
can you give me some insight into
how this is actually going to work?
How is just playing with you going to fix their anxiety?
And so parents misunderstandings and expectations
can be another source of pressure.
(09:18):
And then finally,
colleague and or supervisor,
push back.
And gosh,
do I hear this all the time.
Oh my gosh,
I,
if I had a dime for every time someone
talked to me about a colleague or a supervisor that
just was not buying the CCPT
at all,
I'd be rich.
(09:40):
There are so often scenarios where we have
therapists or counselors or colleagues or even entire teams.
Sometimes we're in agencies or practices with entire teams.
That just don't understand
CCPT.
They just don't understand non-directivity.
And then
we get questioned.
(10:01):
We get criticized
We get berated sometimes.
We get told to deviate from the model.
And especially if we're in a supervisory relationship,
that is tricky
because the nature of a supervisee supervisor
is that the supervisee is supposed to concede
(10:21):
to the wisdom and knowledge and training and education of the supervisor.
So when the supervisor says
you just need to do an activity with them.
It's
very against everything we know about supervision.
To ignore them
But
if we don't ignore them,
then we're deviating from the model.
(10:43):
And we're getting pressured into doing something that we don't believe in.
And that can be very,
very sticky
to navigate.
So,
with all of that pressure.
What happens when we compromise?
Well,
we've talked about this a lot,
but
I'll hit some highlights for you,
just as a recap.
The moment we shift.
(11:05):
Because of pressure
toward the external expectations,
we dilute the model.
We're no longer adherent to the model.
We no longer have proven efficacy of the model.
And here's what happens.
We then are managing the child
instead of trusting them.
(11:26):
children don't need to be managed just like kids just don't,
oh my gosh,
children don't need to be managed,
just like kids don't need to be fixed.
We're not ever intending to manage kids.
We trust them.
And we
make it about them
because it's about the relationship.
(11:47):
And if the child is no longer leading sessions.
Then the play no longer transforms them.
Because now all of a sudden,
they are not freely and autonomously
playing the things that they need to,
so that they can heal and self-actualize.
As soon as we take over and we're leading,
(12:08):
any play the child's doing is no longer transformative.
Because the child isn't directing it.
And if any of those things happen,
and that essentially means that we compromised.
We end up burned out.
And we have internal dissonance.
Related aside,
random aside.
(12:30):
I don't know how many times I've mentioned this,
but I was in the International Baccalaureate program in high school.
And we had a class called Theory of Knowledge.
And Doctor Yarbrough was my teacher.
He
was an interesting chap.
Anyway,
he taught theory of knowledge in high school with a PhD,
so that probably gives you a really accurate picture of Doctor Yarborough.
(12:55):
And
I will never forget,
we were
in this course,
which was,
I mean,
theory of knowledge,
it's deep
philosophical pondering,
and you're,
you know,
like a junior in high school,
like,
how does your brain even conceive of it?
It didn't really.
But I will never forget him bringing up the notion of cognitive dissonance.
And
he is trying to explain this concept.
(13:18):
And says,
OK,
what is that on the wall?
And he points at the clock.
You know,
I think most of us probably said a clock,
and he was like,
but is it a clock?
Or is it a perception of a clock?
And gets into this whole thing about,
well,
it might not be a clock to someone else in a different culture,
or what if you've never seen a clock before?
What if you don't know the word for a clock?
(13:39):
And
anyway,
it was just way too deep for my 16, 17 year old brain.
But I remember the idea of cognitive dissonance,
and that's one of the few things that I took away from theory of knowledge.
And I was reading a book recently and it actually
reminded me of the cognitive dissonance talk from Dr.
Yarborough's class,
because
in the book,
(14:01):
they said,
what,
what way do the hands turn in a clock?
And the person said clockwise,
and they said,
not if you're in the clock.
So anyway,
just different perspective on things,
right?
And so when we think about if we compromise.
It creates dissonance for us
internal dissonance,
(14:21):
cognitive dissonance,
whatever you want to label it.
There's a dissonance.
All of a sudden we're confused.
We don't know what truth is anymore.
We don't know what to believe in anymore.
We don't know what we're adherent to anymore
because we've compromised and no wonder we get burned out.
No wonder we question everything.
No wonder we second-guess things.
No wonder we start to add in other things or take away things or
(14:44):
splice things in.
Why?
Because we have dissonance.
We're not even sure
about anything anymore.
This,
that's what happens when we compromise.
And I get it,
we have these external pressures,
and they kind of push us toward compromise,
push us toward concession.
And so this topic today specifically is about holding the line.
(15:07):
And really diligently digging your heels in and remaining adherent.
So what does that look like?
Well,
first,
I think you have to use language wisely.
We spend so much time in the coaching program talking about articulation.
Why?
Because we have to be able to communicate what we're doing,
even if others can't see it,
even if others don't understand it,
(15:27):
even if it never sinks into anybody,
we have to be able to articulate what we're doing.
And we also have to explain the model
in a parent friendly.
Teacher friendly,
pediatrician friendly,
fill in the person friendly language.
We fail miserably often.
(15:50):
At explaining what we do and why.
And that's why my coaching graduates
are
so well trained
in CCPT not only clinically
but practically because
they know how to answer questions,
they know how to communicate,
they can confidently articulate
what they're doing and why
in any scenario we have to be able to do that.
(16:12):
That helps us hold the line.
Secondly,
Big one,
gosh,
we have to redefine progress,
and I'm air quoting progress because
That's a whole other episode.
But
look,
we have to remind other people
that
sometimes growth is invisible in the early stages,
doesn't mean that
(16:33):
growth isn't being
experienced,
doesn't mean that growth isn't happening.
It's just that sometimes it's invisible.
And even if we see it,
maybe parents don't see it yet,
maybe teachers don't see it yet.
We have to redefine progress,
because even if a child is making progress,
sometimes it's hard to notice or even have evidence of it.
(16:54):
Also,
it's not linear.
We,
we can't think about an X Y axis and say up
and right is the way that a child moves in therapy.
They don't.
do they go up and right in a general
Path,
sure.
But it's more like
a wild roller coaster with
(17:15):
twists and turns and loop de loops and sliding backwards for
a while and barrel rolling and all kinds of other things.
We're,
we're eventually getting up and right,
but it's certainly not linear,
certainly not from point A to point B in a straight line.
And furthermore,
I think it's important to help
people understand that deeper change happens beneath
behavior that we see.
(17:37):
Change is happening beneath behavior.
We can't look at behavior as the only indication of whether or not we have progress.
Third,
I think we have to be clear.
Be really,
really intentional
and clear.
In your meetings with parents.
Set expectations from the start.
(17:59):
One of my favorite phrases,
clear as kind.
You have to have clarity in what you're sharing.
You have to set expectations.
You have to be able to articulate the model.
And from the get-go,
they have to know
this is non-directive.
The child is in charge.
(18:19):
I do not teach during sessions.
I'm not going to direct anything.
I don't have an agenda.
Change will happen as the child expresses
and resolves emotional issues.
It will be at their pace.
We have to make it clear what we will and will not do.
Along the lines of adherence to the model.
(18:41):
And then
another piece of the puzzle,
how do we hold the line?
We have to find supportive community
and
obviously you have because you're listening to me right now.
So I hope,
literally,
I hope and pray daily
that you all feel that this is a supportive community for you.
And
(19:02):
Collective people and coaching people to an even a higher degree,
you found supportive community.
This work is so lonely
if you are the only CCPT.
It's isolating,
it's lonely,
it's draining,
you're swimming upstream.
It's hard.
Stay connected to others who understand,
(19:23):
who get it,
who resonate,
who will reinforce your convictions.
And
we mentioned this before,
but
CCPT
is a mindset.
It's not just a model,
it is a model,
of course,
but it's a mindset.
And
A really interesting thought,
(19:45):
mindset needs community.
Mindset is so important.
It has to live within community.
So make sure that you have a supportive community,
and I hope this is part of that.
But you might need to pursue that on a local level or a virtual level
(20:06):
or through the Collective or whatever you can do
to surround yourself with other CCPTs who are like-minded.
So,
really quickly,
let's just briefly talk through a recommitment.
Or
maybe a
a consistent commitment.
We know CCPT works,
but
we have to stay in it.
(20:27):
We have to adhere.
We have to be diligent.
And
I don't really like this term,
but it's what popped into my head,
so just bear with me for a sec.
You can't sell out.
And often if we do.
If we compromise,
if we concede,
if we sell out,
it's to make someone else more comfortable.
(20:49):
And
strangely enough,
it never makes us more comfortable.
I've had so many therapists say to me,
actually,
I just had a discovery call last week about the coaching program,
and
she's in Ireland,
and she said,
quote,
my head was a mess,
end quote.
Because I had been trained in an integrative approach.
(21:11):
And my model
was to start child-centered
and then do,
and I don't even know,
she rattled off a list of theoretical models.
And then I was supposed to do Gestalt,
and then I was supposed to do Adlerian,
and then I was supposed to do Jungian and then I was then I
was supposed to do some CBT and then I was supposed to do.
And,
and I said,
I'm exhausted listening to you
rattle off that list,
(21:32):
and she said,
quote,
my head was a mess,
end quote.
And
if we sell out,
we are never on we are never comfortable,
and it's an attempt to make other people comfortable
and it rarely works.
Rarely
Try to make everyone happy,
you'll make no one happy.
(21:54):
Stay in the model because we know it works,
and of course there's pressure to conform
and the more pressure we're experiencing,
the more important it is to stay anchored.
So,
let me encourage you for a second
as we wrap up.
You're not strange.
You're not weird.
You're not behind the times.
(22:17):
You're not
rigid.
You're not
bucking the system.
You're not anti-authority,
you're not trying to
make a name for yourself.
You're courageous.
And you're brave
And you're deeply entrenched in a model that you know works.
(22:40):
And even if the model is not understood by everyone.
Everyone doesn't matter.
The child feels it.
The child experiences it.
The child knows it.
That's what it's about anyway.
So,
you're not any of the things that you've
maybe thought or you've had other people imply
(23:01):
or maybe even they've been so bold as to tell you directly to your face.
I've heard a lot of your stories about the things you've been called
and the things you've been accused of.
Let's just lay it all on the line.
You're none of those things.
And even if
the model is misunderstood by absolutely everyone.
It doesn't even matter
(23:22):
because it's never misunderstood by the child.
The child gets to experience it,
feel it,
see it,
know it
at the depth of who they are.
So when you feel pressure,
when you want to bend.
When
you're struggling to be adherent.
Hold firm
(23:42):
Speak truth with grace.
And rehearse how you're going to respond.
Be clear,
find your community.
Use language wisely,
redefine progress,
all the things we've talked about today.
Commit to the model.
It's the only way
that the child gets to experience what the child needs.
(24:06):
The child always gets it.
So that should be enough motivation.
To
be able to coast as long as we need to
and eventually
it becomes muscle memory
and then we
we get over the hump
but the climb is steep sometimes and the climb is tall and long sometimes
(24:28):
stay true.
Do what you know and what you believe in.
Which is CCPT.
Next
time,
final episode of the series,
we're going to kind of summarize everything
and remind why
this work matters so much.
So,
love y'all.
We'll talk again soon.
Bye.
(24:48):
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.
Brenna Hicks.
For more episodes and resources,
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.
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