291 | When Kids Assign You Roles: Staying Adherent to the CCPT Model During Role-Play Scenarios

In this episode, I answer a question from Amanda in Wisconsin about how to respond when a child assigns us a role in play and expects us to make choices—like picking a color or drawing freely—within that role. While the child offers “freedom,” the session still feels tightly controlled, which raises the question: how do we honor the child’s structure without stepping out of the CCPT model?

I walk through strategies like returning responsibility, using wonder and whisper techniques, and narrating your indecision without actually making a choice. I also explore how these moments often reflect deeper therapeutic work—like processing inflexibility, powerlessness, or real-world dynamics. When children give us space to choose, they’re often inviting discomfort to process something meaningful. Our job is to stay neutral, attuned, and adherent—because therapeutic value is happening beneath the surface.

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If you would like to ask me questions directly, check out www.ccptcollective.com, where I host two weekly Zoom calls filled with advanced CCPT case studies and session reviews, as well as member Q&A. You can take advantage of the two-week free trial to see if the CCPT Collective is right for you.

Ask Me Questions: Call ‪[phone]‬, or email: [e-mail]
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Common References:
Cochran, N., Nordling, W., & Cochran, J. (2010). Child-Centered Play Therapy (1st ed.). Wiley.
VanFleet, R., Sywulak, A. E., & Sniscak, C. C. (2010). Child-centered play therapy. Guilford Press.
Landreth, G.L. (2023). Play Therapy: The Art of the Relationship (4th ed.). Routledge.
Bratton, S. C., Landreth, G. L., Kellam, T., & Blackard, S. R. (2006). Child parent relationship therapy (CPRT) treatment manual: A 10-session filial therapy model for training parents. Routledge/Taylor & Francis Group.
Benedict, Helen. Themes in Play Therapy. Used with permission to Heartland Play Therapy Institute.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,
your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
Hi,
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
The Kid Counselor.
This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get
a master class in child-centered play therapy
and practical support and application for your
work with children and their families.
In today's episode,
I am answering a question from Amanda in Wisconsin.

(00:23):
And Amanda's question is about when the child expects us to role play
and what liberty we can take
within the role play and still be adherent to the model.
So we're going to dive into that in just a second.
I just wanted to let you all know we're about 8 or so episodes away from the 300th
Play Therapy Podcast episode.

(00:45):
So for the 300th,
we're gonna do something special and we're going to do another live event.
So I'm just teasing it now,
we'll have more details in the next few episodes of how you can sign up and
make sure that you get yourself a spot if you'd like to attend the live episode,
and essentially what will happen is we will discuss a topic together.

(01:05):
And then we'll do live Q&A for as long as we need to go,
and that will become
an extended podcast episode to celebrate all of us
for achieving the milestone of 300 episodes,
and I know many of you have listened to every single one.
So here's a big hug and a high five to each
of you that have been with me from the beginning,

(01:26):
those of you that are making your way through episodes
in order.
I'm super grateful for you all as well.
We have just had such a huge increase in listenership,
and I know that's because of you all and your
commitment and telling your friends and your co-workers and colleagues and
all of that.
So,
300th episode coming up,
that's huge.
Most podcasts do not make 50,

(01:49):
and we're hitting 300.
So
thanks to y'all.
I appreciate you and love you.
All right.
So let me read parts of Amanda's email and then we'll dive into discussion.
My client often role plays being a teacher and playing school.
Within the context of her play,
she's often very particular about how I complete
the worksheets and how I answer questions.

(02:10):
However,
she also often gives me choices,
such as you can choose the green marker or the brown marker,
or it's free choice time,
you can draw on this sheet of paper whatever you want.
I've tried replying with various verbalizations such as you want me to choose,
but in here you get to decide,
or you would like me to choose,
but I wonder what you think,
or a whispering voice,
what should I choose?

(02:31):
or whisper,
I wonder what I should draw.
And every time it comes down to the fact that this child is trying
to have school in the playroom go the way it does at real school,
which is the teacher offers the student's choices and the student gets to decide,
this has been articulated in different ways at different times by the child.
This child is often quite inflexible and rigid,
you think,

(02:51):
both at home and in the playroom
and has a hard time when things do not go exactly as she has planned it in her head.
I'm curious how you would respond to the
child's choice giving in this type of situation.
All right,
so huge thank you,
Amanda.
This is actually a really helpful question.
So first and foremost,
we want to always go back to the why behind

(03:12):
the insistence,
and we've done other episodes on this before.
I've talked about this in not only the curriculum podcast,
but also in some of the listener questions that I've responded to.
What we're always trying to assess and
evaluate is the motivation behind the insistence,
and I think you got to it at the very end of that email,

(03:33):
Amanda,
you said
she is often quite inflexible and rigid and has a hard time when
things do not go exactly as she had it planned in her head.
OK,
so it's obvious that this is deep work that's happening.
So every time you return responsibility,
And she fights you on it,
it's her inflexibility,
it's her rigidity,
it's her need to control everything and govern everything

(03:54):
and when it doesn't go the way that she wants,
she has a really difficult time adjusting and accepting.
So we recognize this for what it is,
and we remain adherent in the midst of what we understand is the catalyst for this.
So what does that look like?
I think often what
is the most effective strategy

(04:14):
is
we return responsibility
and or we
get directives and cues.
Several times until we are able to make a decision
based very clearly on parameters that the child has established.
So,
for example,
your first scenario.
You can choose the green marker or the brown marker.

(04:36):
I would return responsibility 3 times.
So,
oh,
I wonder which one you would choose for me,
or you get to decide,
or,
hmm,
I'm not really sure which one you would have me pick.
We're,
we're gonna try that 3 times.
The,
the standard rule is always try 3 times.
If the child continues to buck and continues to make it clear,

(04:56):
look,
when I'm in school
and the teacher says,
you can choose to color,
I'm able to color whatever I want and I'm trying to play school.
I mean,
she's not going to articulate it in this way,
but that's the vibe,
right?
I am trying to create the same exact scenario that is in the classroom
where the teacher gives parameters and then the child is free to choose.
OK,

(05:16):
so if we recognize that she's actually trying to replicate
real world school scenario,
if she's given you green and brown as options,
you can choose either one.
Because in this case,
for the school scenario,
the child would have the freedom to pick
what color she wanted to color with.
Now,

(05:36):
the caveat is
if she is asking you to pick what color you're going to be for a game.
This is where it gets trickier
because this is not in the confines of what would happen in a classroom.
We have no idea what color of the child actually wants us to be.
And oftentimes we will.
Stand firm,

(05:56):
stand firm,
stand firm,
and then we finally concede or we finally cave and
because the child insists that we have to choose.
I choose for you to choose.
That's their favorite,
right?
So they're choosing for us to choose and then you say,
OK,
I choose blue and almost always what's the immediate response?
No,
you can be red.
OK,
so we always get it thrown back in our faces when we are not adherent to the model.

(06:21):
We know
that it is not about the color
decision in that scenario.
In this one with the marker though,
at school,
you are given parameters and then freedom within parameters.
So she's trying to recreate the exact same
scenario that that she experiences in the classroom,
then it would be appropriate to say,

(06:41):
You're telling me to choose the green or the brown marker just like at school.
And then I would say,
so I choose the brown.
And
that typically will satisfy because it was very clear.
Now some of these other ones,
you can draw on this sheet of paper whatever you want.
OK,
so this one has less structure

(07:04):
because you're not being given options here.
Whatever you want is very,
very broad,
so I would return responsibility.
I would
try to get directives and cues 3 times.
So maybe the directive is.
It doesn't matter.
It can literally be anything.
OK.
Well,
now you actually have a little bit more to go on,

(07:26):
but what if she says
just draw an animal?
Oh,
OK,
well,
now you've been given a cue.
So you're always hoping to get more specificity out of
the child in those three rounds of returning responsibility.
If it comes down to.
It literally doesn't matter,
just choose whatever you want to draw.
Draw something really simple and benign,

(07:47):
like lines or circles
or squares.
Draw something really simple,
really basic.
Because the child is saying you can draw whatever you want.
So within that freedom.
Don't take liberty.
In other words,
you know,
don't draw a very complex picture,
don't draw a person,

(08:08):
don't draw a house.
I mean,
those are very specific decisions.
Shapes or lines or doodles
are not going to redirect the child's play in any way.
So the goal is neutrality.
We had a whole series on neutrality,
remember?
This would be the goal in a scenario where
we are being given some freedom to make choices.

(08:29):
And
I would continue,
Amanda,
to use what you've been using.
So we use the whisper technique,
we use the wonder technique,
we return responsibility,
we wait for the child to give us some cues.
It's really about wordsmithing,
and I say that a lot because I feel like we become wordsmiths when we are CCPT.
It's really about

(08:50):
the way that we phrase our responses.
So,
hmm,
OK,
you'd like me to draw something
and gosh,
there are so many options.
Often if we narrate around
what we've been asked to do,
we don't actually have to comply.
So in other words,
if she says draw whatever you want,
you could talk about how difficult it is to figure out what to draw.

(09:14):
Oh gosh,
there's so many things that I could draw.
Hmm.
So you're telling me I can draw whatever I want,
and I'm just,
gosh,
I'm not sure what I would draw.
And if you do that long enough,
often what will happen is the child gets so fed up with your
incompetence
that they will just tell you what to draw or say,

(09:35):
just never mind.
Because they don't like waiting around for you to decide what you're going to draw.
So that's another strategy that you can use
that is actually pretty helpful most of the time
when you want to narrate
your decision making process out loud,
but never actually make a decision.
And then.

(09:56):
If a kid if a kid is responding to you going,
yeah,
it doesn't matter,
just whatever you want.
Oh,
you're telling me that it doesn't matter and I can
just choose that I I can do whatever I want,
but that leaves so many options
and you feign that
confusion and ignorance,
and then usually they rescue you or they move on because they're

(10:18):
just impatient and they get sick of you not drawing anything.
So let me finish on this final thought.
So you said.
The child is often inflexible and rigid at home and in the playroom
and has a hard time when things do not go exactly as she has it planned in her head.
This is why we don't deviate,
because this is actually a scenario she's creating.

(10:40):
She doesn't have to give you freedom.
She could have ultimate dictatorial power in the playroom.
She could order you
to choose a color of marker.
She could choose it for you.
She could order you to draw something specifically.
She could tell you exactly what you're supposed to do.
She
Giving you freedom.
So this is a role reversal of sorts
where she's role reversing what happens at school,

(11:03):
so we know she's working through that #1,
#2,
she's also
creating an environment
where you have some control and power and she doesn't.
She could just order you to take the brown marker and draw a tree.
I guess you would want brown and green in that scenario,
but
we work with my analogy here.
She could tell you

(11:24):
what exactly to draw and what colors to use,
but she's giving you some control over that,
which is forcing her into a place
of not being able to control everything that happens,
which means there's therapeutic necessity and value in this.
She's intentionally bringing this into the play because
she knows she needs to work on this.

(11:46):
She could construct the entire session where she never
had
the powerlessness that she's creating for herself,
but she's intentionally saying just draw whatever you want.
And so giving you some of that control is very therapeutically important for her.
And when we see in light of that,
what's going on,

(12:07):
that is what encourages us to remain adherent.
And go through that process,
but still honoring her request in a meaningful way.
So Amanda,
thank you so much for the question.
I hope that that's helpful and I know you said you
were going to go over that with your team as well.
So hello team,
and I appreciate the email and for you reaching out.

(12:27):
If y'all would like me to answer your questions,
please reach out brenna at the kid counselor.com.
You can also
call in the states 813-812-5525 and leave a message,
and I will answer your question if you leave me a voicemail as well.
So,
love y'all.
Hope you have a great week.
We'll talk again soon.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

(12:49):
Brenna Hicks.
For more episodes and resources,
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.