November 12, 2024 • 23 mins
Around the world, industries strive to reduce their environmental impact and retrofitting aging high-voltage equipment is proving to be a smart and cost-effective choice.
It’s just like when your phone gets a boost with a system update, retrofitting old equipment lets you make it more efficient and sustainable without throwing it all away. It’s about keeping what works and making it even better.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
High voltage takes center stage
in this season of HitachiEnergy's Power Pulse podcast.
We promise to bring you great contentfrom the brightest minds in the business.
We'll discuss challenges, opportunities,and all the hot topics
any high voltage enthusiast
or anyone interested in sustainability,for that matter, is sure to enjoy.
This episode of the podcastis dedicated to all asset managers,
(00:22):
a group of professionalswho want to know in detail
about our equipmentand the specificities of our designs.
To tell them about it,we invited Martin Apfl along.
Martin is the Marketing and Sales Managerfor service and GCB businesses.
He is very used to respondingto questions around safety,
reliability,availability, resilience and more.
Martin is a mechatronics engineerwith a master's in General Management.
(00:46):
Even though we're dedicating this episodeto asset managers,
we'll make sure Martin uses languagewe can all understand.
Welcome back to Power Pulse.
I'm your host, Sam Dash, and todayI'm speaking with Martin Apfl,
the Global Product Marketing and SalesManager.
Hi, Martin. Hi.
Thanks for having me. You're welcome.Thanks for being here.
So, Martin,one of the most interesting things
(01:07):
I've read about youis outside of your work, you've had quite
a significant visitto a monastery, of all places, in Greece.
Can you tell me a bitabout that experience?
Yes, I would love to.
I mean, it's a super interesting place,and my feeling is not many people know
about this.
I mean, it's a placeor it's a republic called Athos.
Yeah, I had never heard of it.
(01:27):
It's in Greece.
It's on the Peloponnese peninsula,
and they seem to be an own state,actually,
which gets them very often in conflictwith the European Union, because it's
20 monasteries on a peninsulaand that, it's
called the Republic of Athos,and they don't even allow women there.
So there only males there,only male animals, by the way.
So they don't even allowfemale animals there.
(01:49):
I don't even know how that works.
And it's a huge contradictionwith the European Union.
But that's a different story.That's what we talk about here.
But, what my father and two brothersand I did as we visited that place.
And Athos grants you visa actually.
You cannot just go there. Oh, wow. Cannotjust travel there.
You need a visa.
And then we took a boat trip
to that place, and then we stayedin two of those monasteries.
(02:11):
They don't have running water.They don't have electricity there.
They devote themselvesfully to prayer and work.
And you get the chance as a visitorto witness that for a couple of days.
And that puts you really back to Earth.
Is there an element of that experiencethat you have carried with you
since doing that?
Well, I would love to have carried more.
You know, I mean, we all have a busy life,and I try to remember
(02:33):
the times in Athosand the mindset that I observed.
You know, the monks,
they have different view on life,as probably I have and you have maybe.
But I try to bring backsometimes the slowness into my daily life
and to refocus, to re understandwhat's really important in life.
It was cool to have a glimpseinto that world.
Yeah, I can imagineit really gives you perspective.
(02:54):
Yes, exactly.
It's connections.
It's family, friends, connections you makeat home, but also in your workplace.
That's what matters in the end.
And I need it every dayin my daily life, in my work life.
So speaking of worklife, let's get more into your work life.
Over the season we've heard a lotabout how the grid came to be.
Yes. We know it's
getting old and desperatelyneeds to be serviced and updated, etc.
(03:15):
but who are the customers who come to youfor help with their aging grid?
And what type of thing do they say to you?
Our customer base in Hitachi Energyor in the high voltage business
usually it's a utilityor it's a power generation company.
It could be even alsoan industry customer.
And what we've seen in the last yearsis really the huge surge
in grid rehabilitations.
(03:37):
So customers renewing,refurbishing their existing grid.
It's a huge boom.
And it can be explained because, I mean,especially in post-industrial countries
like Europe, the US,they built their infrastructure already.
All of this infrastructure gets old
and customers are asking themselvesor asset managers,
our customers are asking themselves, okay,now what to do with this infrastructure?
(03:58):
Do I need to replace it?Do I need to refurbish it?
Do I need to retrofit it?
And it's even true for emerging economies
in the Middle East,for example, or in Asia.
I mean, they had a big boomin infrastructure build up and it's
actually continuing till the very day,
but still also those assets, substationtransformers, everything you have
there needs to be servicedand refurbished.
And that'swhat customers come to us every day
(04:20):
and ask for options and want tounderstand, okay, what options do I have?
What possibilities do I have?
So for those of us listening to thiswithout the visual
necessarily that you have,what does an old grid look like?
How would you describe an old gridto those of us outside the industry?
You can imagine,I mean, usually our products that we put
into the market or assets as we call it,they have usually a lifetime
(04:42):
of, let's say 40 years.
Yeah, it can be a switchgear,it can be a transformer.
And we have so many caseswhere customers are calling us,
sending us plate, a technical rating plateof that asset of their product.
And then we see it's 60 yearsold, it's 70 years old.
And then– oh wow.
And then we’re like, wow, it still runs.
It's still working, yea.
But still customers have to question,
okay, what to do with itbecause it feels scary.
(05:04):
It's already 60-70 years old.
My breaker my switchgear.
So Hitachi Energy what options do I have?
Is it the kind of thingwhere you sort of –
this is maybe not the right example –but if you meet someone for the first time
and they tell you their ageand you think, wow,
this person looks so much younger
than what they say their age is, you know,if they say they're 60 years old,
(05:24):
but you think, wow,you look like you're 50 or 45,
is it a similar thing with that equipmentwhere these customers
or clients are saying this data,this information says that our equipment
is 60 years old, but it's still operatinglike it's 20 years old or something.
What you have to understand is that alsodepends a lot on the circumstances.
I mean, we have our assets usuallyin a switchgear yard, in a substation,
(05:49):
usually close to the steel doors,and then you leave it there for 40 years.
You just come in for service.
But many of our assets and switchgears,transformers,
they are in harsh conditions .See here in offshore.
I mean, you have corrosive air, right?You have salty air.
The water is salty and those assetsare in much more exposure.
So it depends a bit.
So you see issues of corrosion, rust,salt buildup
(06:10):
things like that on the equipment.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, to make that analogyyou wanted to make
is I mean, an office person
who never gets hands dirty,
maybe differently exposed to a personwho is everyday out.
Out in the field, farming or somethingYeah, exactly.
So our products havesimilar characteristics.
Is it safe to say that you dealwith asset managers on a daily basis?
And what type of workwould you be collaborating on with them?
(06:33):
Yeah, actuallyI just met asset managers yesterday.
Oh yeah.
Yes I did, and we had a long discussionsabout challenges and
what was interesting to see is, I mean,that we have the same challenges actually.
I mean, our customers, our asset managers,and we do.
And one common denominator was lackof resources or in other words, people.
I explained before that we seea huge demand in grid refurbishments.
(06:55):
You need people who do that. Yeah. Right.
And so is it hard to find the peoplewho do the.
Extremely hard to find those people.
I mean, it's struggle our customers have,
but it's also struggle that we haveand think it can be explained too,
because many people want to geta university education right.
Many people aim for office position, butthose parts of the demography are missing
field service positions, and customers inthe industries need to think about.
(07:19):
We need to change the job profileof a field service engineer
because it was different in the past,because in the past, you know, field
service engineer traveled, for example,to naming a country now to Algeria
to build up the infrastructure there,stay there for three, 4 or 5, six months.
You know, building up the infrastructure,earning a little money, of course,
and then go back home.
But this with the generationcurrently - generation Z -
(07:40):
they have a different meaning to life.They don't want this anymore.
They want to be home in the evening.
And I can't blame them. Same for myself.I have three kids.
I don't want to be out for six monthsinstalling a switchgear.
I also want to be home every night,so companies
need to rethink that job profile.
That's one thing.
What we also realized is we always thinkabout digitalization and digital.
Yeah. And here is one good examplewhere we can use it.
(08:01):
Because in the past we used to send a guyfrom here to Colombia
because in Colombia there is a problemwith one of our products.
Sure. Yeah.
But is that really necessary?
Because with the technology that we havetoday, you can do remote assistance,
you can help peopleusing the technology that we have.
So you don't need to send a guy.
So it's good for the environment, right.
Because no need to send a personaround the globe.
(08:23):
Yeah. Right.
And the person is at homewith the family in the evening.
So that's one of the challenges
that we as a switchgear manufacturer,but also our customers have in common.
Yeah.
And how is becoming more digital
creating opportunities for you,but also creating challenges?
What we always say: ‘we're not doing digital (08:38):
undefined
for the sake of digital.’That's not worth it.
I mean, we want to use it as a toolto help
also artificial intelligence, I mean,we don't do AI just to chat with ChatGPT.
I mean, we want to have a purpose.We want to have a meaning.
And that's why when we lookat digitalization and Hitachi Energy,
we always ask ourselves,okay, what is really the purpose?
Why are we doing this?
(08:58):
And there's oneexample is a remote monitoring
– not to send a personor to deploy him or her to site.
Right.
Or if we monitor our assetsand what we can do is real
life monitor the state of our switchgearsor transformers, for example.
Why are we doing this?
Not just for fun, no,because we can prevent failures.
We can predict failures.That's why we are doing it.
And so are there challengeswithin that system?
(09:21):
Are there instances where it'smore difficult to do a certain job
digitally than it was in the past,when you would send someone to the site
in person?
Yeah. One aspect is also healthand safety.
For example,if you do a remote monitoring,
there are certain technologieshow to do it.
Sometimes, you know,you can do it with a mobile phone
or with some fancy glassesyou can put on your helmet.
(09:41):
Yeah.
But you also need to take the healthand safety aspect into consideration.
I mean, if you need to work on a siteholding a phone and then, you know,
you– Yeah, right.
You talk to the headquarters.
I mean, it's also not–
So you're not looking to do
a blanket replacementof everything into a digital sphere.
You're trying to be quite targetedabout what can be better
digitally and what still requiressomething in person.
(10:03):
Is that right?
That's exactly the point.We can't replace a field service engineer.
They are the heart, the coreand the DNA of our service organization.
We always say it's a people's businessand digital will never replace that.
Probably.
It will be an enabler, a catalyst,but it will not replace people.
So tell me, what are the most commonrequests you receive from asset managers?
Yes. Asset managers have always targetsand their targets usually is,
(10:27):
I mean they want to run their assets assafe as possible, as reliable as possible.
And they need to look also afteraffordability and resilience.
I mean, this is usually the mantraevery asset manager has.
And one common request is, I mean,they find themselves in a situation.
I mean, they manage a fleet of different
assets, right, with different agesand different demands and needs.
(10:48):
And the good thing iswe have not the one only solution.
We have a set of solutions.
One thing is,I mean, we can retrofit assets.
If you want examples: So you are an asset manager. (10:55):
undefined
You are sitting on a switchgearthat is 30 years old. Right.
And you ask yourself, okay, what to do.
And there are several options.
I mean, one obvious option is replacethat thing with a new one.
Okay.
But we as Hitachi Energy,we also have other options
like we can refurbish your equipmentand retrofit your equipment.
Basically meaning taking out componentswhich are prone to failure and replace it
(11:18):
with state of the art new components.
And then this gives you peace and quietfor the next 15, 20 years.
And the beautiful thing about retrofittingis also because here comes
the sustainability aspect.
This every switchgear, every asset
that you don't have to replace contributesto sustainability
because a new switchgear means new copper,new steel, new aluminum.
(11:39):
Right.
And if you keep your asset in place
but refurbish it or retrofit ityou think about the sustainability aspect.
Yeah.
You're not putting more energy outto produce new raw materials, etc..
Exactly, exactly.
This is, by the way, how many legislationsare written in that spirit.
And so before you replacean entire switchgear,
look for solutions to keep the assetsin place and to extend the lifetime.
(12:03):
So that is a big topic in the industry -extending lifetime.
And so as part of your job,helping those asset managers
really interrogate what can be donein terms of that retrofitting?
Yes, exactly.
Because there is not just one solution.
So, asset manager comes to us asking okay,what to do.
And then we come with one answer.
I mean usually we comewith a set of options.
(12:24):
Yeah.So I said one thing is the replacement.
But when it comes to retrofittingthere are different degrees
of retrofitting. Yeah.
So you can exchange the circuit breakeror you only exchange
the operating mechanism.
So basically certainparts of the switchgear
and it depends on product lifecycledepends on availability of parts.
Depends on budget of course.
(12:44):
So it's always a bit of a assessmentcase by case.
And that's what we do.
We speak with asset managersand define the right strategy
for the assetand the fleet that they are running.
So do you find yourself frequentlyin the position of needing to meet
with asset managers and convince themof the benefits of retrofitting
and recycling and doing that,as opposed to buying a whole new system?
(13:07):
Exactly.
I think that's one of the unique positionsthat we have as a company,
is that wide range of retrofit portfolio,
because many other OEMs will probably tellyou replace your assets,
but it's expensive and sustainabilityaspect is also not really followed.
Right.
So we have this wide portfolio.
And I think that really sets us apart.
So we could offer many different options.
(13:29):
So let's pretend, for instance,that I'm an asset manager coming to you
and I am sort of on the fenceabout whether to upgrade or replace
my current equipment. Yeah.
What would you say to me?
We assess the situationso we look how old is your switchgear,
how many switchings it has seen.
And one question is also how many shortcircuit switchings it has seen.
(13:50):
It becomes a bit technical nowbut this gives a hard time.
This gives stress to assets. Yeah.
Then we look at the conditionsswitchgear is placed.
I mean I've talked about this before.
Is it on an offshore platformor is it nice cozy and warm and,
and air conditioned switchyard.
So what I'm hearing is and againcorrect me
if I'm wrong, as you really want todiscuss with your asset managers the data.
(14:11):
You want to know what the data says aboutwhat the situation
is, what the context is for,where the equipment is located,
but also what kind of state it is inand what the numbers show.
Correct. And then we come with options.
I mean, we have different optionswith retrofit.
The question is also always doyou do retrofit on all of your assets
or only the most stressed ones. Yeah.
(14:33):
So let's be honest, the affordability
aspect always comes into playas well at the end of the day.
And then we think about all the strategicspare parts.
It's also quite important thingbecause if you do a retrofit
you replace certain parts,but then you have the old parts
and you don't throw them away.
Yeah, right.
You keep them in the warehouse,
you could reuse them in case somethinghappens to your existing installations.
Are there any issues with retrofittingonly some of the equipment
(14:56):
as opposed to all of it?
Well, yes and no.
I mean, in the end,it's a budget question.
We, as Hitachi Energyalways propose to do a full retrofit
then you're on the safe side.
But let's be honest, in many casesthe budget plays a very big role. Yes.
And then you do a partial retrofitting.For example.
You have ten GIS bays.
Then you say, okay,so which are the most stressed ones.
So bay number two,five and six for example.
(15:18):
And then you do a retrofit on two,five and six.
But this gives you additional spare partsthan for the other one.
So there is an advantage to it as well.
It's not necessarily a bad thingif you only replace part of the fleet.
Exactly. Yeah.
And againit all boils down to flexibility.
And we can be super flexible.
I mean we have many different retrofitoptions in place.
And againI think that sets us really apart.
(15:40):
We as Hitachi Energy, we try to stayabreast with those requirements.
One aspect that came on top ofthis is sustainability.
My personal feeling was the last yearit was a bit of a buzzword.
Yeah.
But now what you see all across the worldis a change in legislation, right?
So we want to get to net-zero.
We want to limit the globalwarming to 1.5%.
(16:00):
So many governments
across the globe are committingto certain laws and regulations,
and it doesn't stop short of transmissionand distribution of our industry.
We welcome that.
We think that's good
and we help our customers to fulfill theirtargets, their sustainability targets.
Right.
And speaking about sustainability,we've heard a little bit about SF6
and recycling SF6 in previous episodes.
(16:24):
Can you explain the nitty grittyof how this works in layman's terms?
Yeah, SF6, I mean, basicallythere are two ways in simple terms
how to recycle it, how to make it fitand bring it back to industry
grade standards.I mean, one thing is cleaning it.
You filter itand then there's a second technology.
It's called cryogenics.
It's a cool word, right? Yeah,it sounds fantastic.
(16:44):
Explain that for our audience.
What do you usually do is in cryogenics,you deep freeze the SF6
and then you spin it.
You know, you centrifuge it,and then you can filter out
the different phasesthat are inside the gas.
So basically all of the contaminations
you can filter outif you deep freeze the gas.
And then you bring it back to 99.999%cleanliness.
(17:05):
And is this a processthat Hitachi Energy does,
or is this something that is commonacross the industry?
Yeah, that is a super hot topic actually,because I mean, in the past, again,
personal opinion is
if you have contaminated gas,it was sent back to the manufacturer
and then they burned itand you just got a new one
or you just bought new virginSF6 gas with those new legislations
(17:27):
that are now kicking in across the globe,especially Europe, North America,
that is not allowed anymore.
And you need to find ways to recycle gas.
So it's becoming more and more relevantthat topic.
And we as Hitachi Energy,we are looking into this technology,
how to develop it, how to makean interesting offering to our customers.
And so the idea beingthat you want to offer your customers
a service where they can moreeasily recycle that SF6 gas.
(17:50):
Exactly. Why is it relevant?
Very concrete example (17:52):
There is this European Union F-gas regulation.
And from 2035 onwards, our customersare only allowed to use recycled SF6.
So not Virgin SF6 anymore.
So they find themselves in a position okaywhere to get recycled SF6 from
and we as Hitachi Energy,we want to provide that solution
and we can already do it today,but we need to scale up also.
(18:13):
Speaking of recycling SF6and moving on from it,
have you got any cool new offeringscoming up that you could share in terms
of where sustainability isheaded? Cool is a nice word
because– That's
exactly the sort of the purpose of–We want to cool the planet, right?
Or we want to limit the warming, right?Yeah. Yes.
I mean, we have one offering
(18:33):
which is super interesting because,I mean, the industry is talking a lot
about alternative gas technologies,so other than SF6.
And there are many solutionsout on the market.
And we also participate in this.
But there's one hot question:
what about the SF6that is already in our switchgears?
Right. What to do about that.
And what we have developed is a solutionto replace that SF6.
(18:55):
But take it out and refill the acidwith an alternative gas technology.
It works the same way as it did before.
It's basically a gas swap.
And that's beautiful because one thing isputting a switchgear new into the market.
Right.
But the other thing is
what to do with the SF6that is already in the installed base.
And we have a solution that works
and we will expand itto all ranges of the portfolio.
(19:16):
So right now we have it 420 kV.
So that's the transmission levelas we call it.
But we want to run it to a much much widerportfolio.
Yeah.
Can you talk us through a real lifeexample
when you worked with a customerto replace SF6?
Or even better, is there a timewhen a customer came to you with a request
and you ended up providing themwith a service that made their offering
(19:38):
even more sustainable?
Yes, yes.
I mean, I talked a little bitabout legislation.
Yeah.
But legislation gives you the framework.
But many of our customers go beyond that.
So they are saying,okay, legislation is one thing,
but we have our own target,our own sustainability targets.
And what comes to my mind is immediatelyis a National Grid in the United Kingdom.
(19:59):
So by 2030,they want to get rid of 50% of their SF6.
And by 2050they want to have eliminated it.
And how to do that?
Now, exactly, this EconiQretrofil solution that I have explained,
you know, taking out the SF6, replace itwith an alternative gas solution
fits in perfectly to fulfill that target
of reducing SF6 by 50% by 2030.
(20:21):
Yeah.
Just to repeat what you just said,so that our listeners can really grasp
the solution that you're talking about,is replacing a SF6 with EconiQ.
Is that right? Correct.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, our solution that runs on EconiQumbrella, our EconiQ brand name.
Yeah.
And what we do is, you know,we replace SF6 with C4FN gas mixture. Yes.
Which is much more friendlyto the environment.
(20:43):
And so you gave us as an example,the National Grid in the United Kingdom.
Do you find thatthere are many other countries
that are following suitthat are saying by the year 2030,
we need to reduce our SF6 relianceby this much?
Yes, yes, it's super exciting timesright now to be in this industry
because the power industry I'min, I'm in a companies for 17 years.
(21:05):
It was a conservative industry.I mean, let's be honest.
But what's happening rightnow, it's remarkable.
It never happened beforebecause legislation is changing.
You know, the focus on sustainabilityis growing so much.
So the EU was a bit of a lighthouse,you know, coming with the new regulation.
Yeah.
The UK is followingSwitzerland, states in the US
(21:25):
you know also ban SF6looking after alternative technologies.
The Middle East will come for sure.
I mean there's a lot of SF6 thereand a lot of infrastructure.
And they will also change to greentechnologies and that is unprecedented.
So it sort of seems likefrom what you're saying
and again, correct me if I'm wrong, thatall these different industries
and governments are feeding off each otherand pushing each other to really push
(21:49):
for progress, to move things forwardto a higher standard.
Exactly.
In a way, government bodies set the tone,they set the direction.
But what we appreciate and observe is,I mean, many companies go beyond that
and really want to contributeand get rid of SF6
and look into alternative technologies.
And we really, really appreciate itand again, this never happened
(22:10):
in the industry before and it's actuallyquite exciting to be part of that.
Thanks so much for joining ustoday, Martin.
Thanks.
You filled in for uswhat asset managers are looking for
from high voltage engineers.
And you've provided more clarityaround high voltage equipment.
Also, some of the specific designprocesses involved in that.
Thanks for tuning in to this episode ofPower Pulse.
(22:31):
Until next time.
And that's it for today.
We'll be back soonwith some more great content.
But before you go,remember to give us a follow
so you don't miss an episode.
Thanks for tuning in. See you soon!
This episode was brought to you by HitachiEnergy.
Createdand introduced by Bárbara Freitas-Daniels.
Contentand scriptwriting by Cassandra Inay.
Guest speaker Martin Apfl.
(22:53):
Hosted by Sam Dash.
Produced and edited by Creative Chimps.
High voltage takes center stage
in this season of HitachiEnergy's Power Pulse podcast.
We promise to bring you great contentfrom the brightest minds in the business.
We'll discuss challenges, opportunities,and all the hot topics
any high voltage enthusiast
or anyone interested in sustainability,for that matter, is sure to enjoy.
This episode of the podcastis dedicated to all asset managers,
(00:22):
a group of professionalswho want to know in detail
about our equipmentand the specificities of our designs.
To tell them about it,we invited Martin Apfl along.
Martin is the Marketing and Sales Managerfor service and GCB businesses.
He is very used to respondingto questions around safety,
reliability,availability, resilience and more.
Martin is a mechatronics engineerwith a master's in General Management.
(00:46):
Even though we're dedicating this episodeto asset managers,
we'll make sure Martin uses languagewe can all understand.
Welcome back to Power Pulse.
I'm your host, Sam Dash, and todayI'm speaking with Martin Apfl,
the Global Product Marketing and SalesManager.
Hi, Martin. Hi.
Thanks for having me. You're welcome.Thanks for being here.
So, Martin,one of the most interesting things
(01:07):
I've read about youis outside of your work, you've had quite
a significant visitto a monastery, of all places, in Greece.
Can you tell me a bitabout that experience?
Yes, I would love to.
I mean, it's a super interesting place,and my feeling is not many people know
about this.
I mean, it's a placeor it's a republic called Athos.
Yeah, I had never heard of it.
(01:27):
It's in Greece.
It's on the Peloponnese peninsula,
and they seem to be an own state,actually,
which gets them very often in conflictwith the European Union, because it's
20 monasteries on a peninsulaand that, it's
called the Republic of Athos,and they don't even allow women there.
So there only males there,only male animals, by the way.
So they don't even allowfemale animals there.
(01:49):
I don't even know how that works.
And it's a huge contradictionwith the European Union.
But that's a different story.That's what we talk about here.
But, what my father and two brothersand I did as we visited that place.
And Athos grants you visa actually.
You cannot just go there. Oh, wow. Cannotjust travel there.
You need a visa.
And then we took a boat trip
to that place, and then we stayedin two of those monasteries.
(02:11):
They don't have running water.They don't have electricity there.
They devote themselvesfully to prayer and work.
And you get the chance as a visitorto witness that for a couple of days.
And that puts you really back to Earth.
Is there an element of that experiencethat you have carried with you
since doing that?
Well, I would love to have carried more.
You know, I mean, we all have a busy life,and I try to remember
(02:33):
the times in Athosand the mindset that I observed.
You know, the monks,
they have different view on life,as probably I have and you have maybe.
But I try to bring backsometimes the slowness into my daily life
and to refocus, to re understandwhat's really important in life.
It was cool to have a glimpseinto that world.
Yeah, I can imagineit really gives you perspective.
(02:54):
Yes, exactly.
It's connections.
It's family, friends, connections you makeat home, but also in your workplace.
That's what matters in the end.
And I need it every dayin my daily life, in my work life.
So speaking of worklife, let's get more into your work life.
Over the season we've heard a lotabout how the grid came to be.
Yes. We know it's
getting old and desperatelyneeds to be serviced and updated, etc.
(03:15):
but who are the customers who come to youfor help with their aging grid?
And what type of thing do they say to you?
Our customer base in Hitachi Energyor in the high voltage business
usually it's a utilityor it's a power generation company.
It could be even alsoan industry customer.
And what we've seen in the last yearsis really the huge surge
in grid rehabilitations.
(03:37):
So customers renewing,refurbishing their existing grid.
It's a huge boom.
And it can be explained because, I mean,especially in post-industrial countries
like Europe, the US,they built their infrastructure already.
All of this infrastructure gets old
and customers are asking themselvesor asset managers,
our customers are asking themselves, okay,now what to do with this infrastructure?
(03:58):
Do I need to replace it?Do I need to refurbish it?
Do I need to retrofit it?
And it's even true for emerging economies
in the Middle East,for example, or in Asia.
I mean, they had a big boomin infrastructure build up and it's
actually continuing till the very day,
but still also those assets, substationtransformers, everything you have
there needs to be servicedand refurbished.
And that'swhat customers come to us every day
(04:20):
and ask for options and want tounderstand, okay, what options do I have?
What possibilities do I have?
So for those of us listening to thiswithout the visual
necessarily that you have,what does an old grid look like?
How would you describe an old gridto those of us outside the industry?
You can imagine,I mean, usually our products that we put
into the market or assets as we call it,they have usually a lifetime
(04:42):
of, let's say 40 years.
Yeah, it can be a switchgear,it can be a transformer.
And we have so many caseswhere customers are calling us,
sending us plate, a technical rating plateof that asset of their product.
And then we see it's 60 yearsold, it's 70 years old.
And then– oh wow.
And then we’re like, wow, it still runs.
It's still working, yea.
But still customers have to question,
okay, what to do with itbecause it feels scary.
(05:04):
It's already 60-70 years old.
My breaker my switchgear.
So Hitachi Energy what options do I have?
Is it the kind of thingwhere you sort of –
this is maybe not the right example –but if you meet someone for the first time
and they tell you their ageand you think, wow,
this person looks so much younger
than what they say their age is, you know,if they say they're 60 years old,
(05:24):
but you think, wow,you look like you're 50 or 45,
is it a similar thing with that equipmentwhere these customers
or clients are saying this data,this information says that our equipment
is 60 years old, but it's still operatinglike it's 20 years old or something.
What you have to understand is that alsodepends a lot on the circumstances.
I mean, we have our assets usuallyin a switchgear yard, in a substation,
(05:49):
usually close to the steel doors,and then you leave it there for 40 years.
You just come in for service.
But many of our assets and switchgears,transformers,
they are in harsh conditions .See here in offshore.
I mean, you have corrosive air, right?You have salty air.
The water is salty and those assetsare in much more exposure.
So it depends a bit.
So you see issues of corrosion, rust,salt buildup
(06:10):
things like that on the equipment.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, to make that analogyyou wanted to make
is I mean, an office person
who never gets hands dirty,
maybe differently exposed to a personwho is everyday out.
Out in the field, farming or somethingYeah, exactly.
So our products havesimilar characteristics.
Is it safe to say that you dealwith asset managers on a daily basis?
And what type of workwould you be collaborating on with them?
(06:33):
Yeah, actuallyI just met asset managers yesterday.
Oh yeah.
Yes I did, and we had a long discussionsabout challenges and
what was interesting to see is, I mean,that we have the same challenges actually.
I mean, our customers, our asset managers,and we do.
And one common denominator was lackof resources or in other words, people.
I explained before that we seea huge demand in grid refurbishments.
(06:55):
You need people who do that. Yeah. Right.
And so is it hard to find the peoplewho do the.
Extremely hard to find those people.
I mean, it's struggle our customers have,
but it's also struggle that we haveand think it can be explained too,
because many people want to geta university education right.
Many people aim for office position, butthose parts of the demography are missing
field service positions, and customers inthe industries need to think about.
(07:19):
We need to change the job profileof a field service engineer
because it was different in the past,because in the past, you know, field
service engineer traveled, for example,to naming a country now to Algeria
to build up the infrastructure there,stay there for three, 4 or 5, six months.
You know, building up the infrastructure,earning a little money, of course,
and then go back home.
But this with the generationcurrently - generation Z -
(07:40):
they have a different meaning to life.They don't want this anymore.
They want to be home in the evening.
And I can't blame them. Same for myself.I have three kids.
I don't want to be out for six monthsinstalling a switchgear.
I also want to be home every night,so companies
need to rethink that job profile.
That's one thing.
What we also realized is we always thinkabout digitalization and digital.
Yeah. And here is one good examplewhere we can use it.
(08:01):
Because in the past we used to send a guyfrom here to Colombia
because in Colombia there is a problemwith one of our products.
Sure. Yeah.
But is that really necessary?
Because with the technology that we havetoday, you can do remote assistance,
you can help peopleusing the technology that we have.
So you don't need to send a guy.
So it's good for the environment, right.
Because no need to send a personaround the globe.
(08:23):
Yeah. Right.
And the person is at homewith the family in the evening.
So that's one of the challenges
that we as a switchgear manufacturer,but also our customers have in common.
Yeah.
And how is becoming more digital
creating opportunities for you,but also creating challenges?
What we always say: ‘we're not doing digital (08:38):
undefined
for the sake of digital.’That's not worth it.
I mean, we want to use it as a toolto help
also artificial intelligence, I mean,we don't do AI just to chat with ChatGPT.
I mean, we want to have a purpose.We want to have a meaning.
And that's why when we lookat digitalization and Hitachi Energy,
we always ask ourselves,okay, what is really the purpose?
Why are we doing this?
(08:58):
And there's oneexample is a remote monitoring
– not to send a personor to deploy him or her to site.
Right.
Or if we monitor our assetsand what we can do is real
life monitor the state of our switchgearsor transformers, for example.
Why are we doing this?
Not just for fun, no,because we can prevent failures.
We can predict failures.That's why we are doing it.
And so are there challengeswithin that system?
(09:21):
Are there instances where it'smore difficult to do a certain job
digitally than it was in the past,when you would send someone to the site
in person?
Yeah. One aspect is also healthand safety.
For example,if you do a remote monitoring,
there are certain technologieshow to do it.
Sometimes, you know,you can do it with a mobile phone
or with some fancy glassesyou can put on your helmet.
(09:41):
Yeah.
But you also need to take the healthand safety aspect into consideration.
I mean, if you need to work on a siteholding a phone and then, you know,
you– Yeah, right.
You talk to the headquarters.
I mean, it's also not–
So you're not looking to do
a blanket replacementof everything into a digital sphere.
You're trying to be quite targetedabout what can be better
digitally and what still requiressomething in person.
(10:03):
Is that right?
That's exactly the point.We can't replace a field service engineer.
They are the heart, the coreand the DNA of our service organization.
We always say it's a people's businessand digital will never replace that.
Probably.
It will be an enabler, a catalyst,but it will not replace people.
So tell me, what are the most commonrequests you receive from asset managers?
Yes. Asset managers have always targetsand their targets usually is,
(10:27):
I mean they want to run their assets assafe as possible, as reliable as possible.
And they need to look also afteraffordability and resilience.
I mean, this is usually the mantraevery asset manager has.
And one common request is, I mean,they find themselves in a situation.
I mean, they manage a fleet of different
assets, right, with different agesand different demands and needs.
(10:48):
And the good thing iswe have not the one only solution.
We have a set of solutions.
One thing is,I mean, we can retrofit assets.
If you want examples: So you are an asset manager. (10:55):
undefined
You are sitting on a switchgearthat is 30 years old. Right.
And you ask yourself, okay, what to do.
And there are several options.
I mean, one obvious option is replacethat thing with a new one.
Okay.
But we as Hitachi Energy,we also have other options
like we can refurbish your equipmentand retrofit your equipment.
Basically meaning taking out componentswhich are prone to failure and replace it
(11:18):
with state of the art new components.
And then this gives you peace and quietfor the next 15, 20 years.
And the beautiful thing about retrofittingis also because here comes
the sustainability aspect.
This every switchgear, every asset
that you don't have to replace contributesto sustainability
because a new switchgear means new copper,new steel, new aluminum.
(11:39):
Right.
And if you keep your asset in place
but refurbish it or retrofit ityou think about the sustainability aspect.
Yeah.
You're not putting more energy outto produce new raw materials, etc..
Exactly, exactly.
This is, by the way, how many legislationsare written in that spirit.
And so before you replacean entire switchgear,
look for solutions to keep the assetsin place and to extend the lifetime.
(12:03):
So that is a big topic in the industry -extending lifetime.
And so as part of your job,helping those asset managers
really interrogate what can be donein terms of that retrofitting?
Yes, exactly.
Because there is not just one solution.
So, asset manager comes to us asking okay,what to do.
And then we come with one answer.
I mean usually we comewith a set of options.
(12:24):
Yeah.So I said one thing is the replacement.
But when it comes to retrofittingthere are different degrees
of retrofitting. Yeah.
So you can exchange the circuit breakeror you only exchange
the operating mechanism.
So basically certainparts of the switchgear
and it depends on product lifecycledepends on availability of parts.
Depends on budget of course.
(12:44):
So it's always a bit of a assessmentcase by case.
And that's what we do.
We speak with asset managersand define the right strategy
for the assetand the fleet that they are running.
So do you find yourself frequentlyin the position of needing to meet
with asset managers and convince themof the benefits of retrofitting
and recycling and doing that,as opposed to buying a whole new system?
(13:07):
Exactly.
I think that's one of the unique positionsthat we have as a company,
is that wide range of retrofit portfolio,
because many other OEMs will probably tellyou replace your assets,
but it's expensive and sustainabilityaspect is also not really followed.
Right.
So we have this wide portfolio.
And I think that really sets us apart.
So we could offer many different options.
(13:29):
So let's pretend, for instance,that I'm an asset manager coming to you
and I am sort of on the fenceabout whether to upgrade or replace
my current equipment. Yeah.
What would you say to me?
We assess the situationso we look how old is your switchgear,
how many switchings it has seen.
And one question is also how many shortcircuit switchings it has seen.
(13:50):
It becomes a bit technical nowbut this gives a hard time.
This gives stress to assets. Yeah.
Then we look at the conditionsswitchgear is placed.
I mean I've talked about this before.
Is it on an offshore platformor is it nice cozy and warm and,
and air conditioned switchyard.
So what I'm hearing is and againcorrect me
if I'm wrong, as you really want todiscuss with your asset managers the data.
(14:11):
You want to know what the data says aboutwhat the situation
is, what the context is for,where the equipment is located,
but also what kind of state it is inand what the numbers show.
Correct. And then we come with options.
I mean, we have different optionswith retrofit.
The question is also always doyou do retrofit on all of your assets
or only the most stressed ones. Yeah.
(14:33):
So let's be honest, the affordability
aspect always comes into playas well at the end of the day.
And then we think about all the strategicspare parts.
It's also quite important thingbecause if you do a retrofit
you replace certain parts,but then you have the old parts
and you don't throw them away.
Yeah, right.
You keep them in the warehouse,
you could reuse them in case somethinghappens to your existing installations.
Are there any issues with retrofittingonly some of the equipment
(14:56):
as opposed to all of it?
Well, yes and no.
I mean, in the end,it's a budget question.
We, as Hitachi Energyalways propose to do a full retrofit
then you're on the safe side.
But let's be honest, in many casesthe budget plays a very big role. Yes.
And then you do a partial retrofitting.For example.
You have ten GIS bays.
Then you say, okay,so which are the most stressed ones.
So bay number two,five and six for example.
(15:18):
And then you do a retrofit on two,five and six.
But this gives you additional spare partsthan for the other one.
So there is an advantage to it as well.
It's not necessarily a bad thingif you only replace part of the fleet.
Exactly. Yeah.
And againit all boils down to flexibility.
And we can be super flexible.
I mean we have many different retrofitoptions in place.
And againI think that sets us really apart.
(15:40):
We as Hitachi Energy, we try to stayabreast with those requirements.
One aspect that came on top ofthis is sustainability.
My personal feeling was the last yearit was a bit of a buzzword.
Yeah.
But now what you see all across the worldis a change in legislation, right?
So we want to get to net-zero.
We want to limit the globalwarming to 1.5%.
(16:00):
So many governments
across the globe are committingto certain laws and regulations,
and it doesn't stop short of transmissionand distribution of our industry.
We welcome that.
We think that's good
and we help our customers to fulfill theirtargets, their sustainability targets.
Right.
And speaking about sustainability,we've heard a little bit about SF6
and recycling SF6 in previous episodes.
(16:24):
Can you explain the nitty grittyof how this works in layman's terms?
Yeah, SF6, I mean, basicallythere are two ways in simple terms
how to recycle it, how to make it fitand bring it back to industry
grade standards.I mean, one thing is cleaning it.
You filter itand then there's a second technology.
It's called cryogenics.
It's a cool word, right? Yeah,it sounds fantastic.
(16:44):
Explain that for our audience.
What do you usually do is in cryogenics,you deep freeze the SF6
and then you spin it.
You know, you centrifuge it,and then you can filter out
the different phasesthat are inside the gas.
So basically all of the contaminations
you can filter outif you deep freeze the gas.
And then you bring it back to 99.999%cleanliness.
(17:05):
And is this a processthat Hitachi Energy does,
or is this something that is commonacross the industry?
Yeah, that is a super hot topic actually,because I mean, in the past, again,
personal opinion is
if you have contaminated gas,it was sent back to the manufacturer
and then they burned itand you just got a new one
or you just bought new virginSF6 gas with those new legislations
(17:27):
that are now kicking in across the globe,especially Europe, North America,
that is not allowed anymore.
And you need to find ways to recycle gas.
So it's becoming more and more relevantthat topic.
And we as Hitachi Energy,we are looking into this technology,
how to develop it, how to makean interesting offering to our customers.
And so the idea beingthat you want to offer your customers
a service where they can moreeasily recycle that SF6 gas.
(17:50):
Exactly. Why is it relevant?
Very concrete example (17:52):
There is this European Union F-gas regulation.
And from 2035 onwards, our customersare only allowed to use recycled SF6.
So not Virgin SF6 anymore.
So they find themselves in a position okaywhere to get recycled SF6 from
and we as Hitachi Energy,we want to provide that solution
and we can already do it today,but we need to scale up also.
(18:13):
Speaking of recycling SF6and moving on from it,
have you got any cool new offeringscoming up that you could share in terms
of where sustainability isheaded? Cool is a nice word
because– That's
exactly the sort of the purpose of–We want to cool the planet, right?
Or we want to limit the warming, right?Yeah. Yes.
I mean, we have one offering
(18:33):
which is super interesting because,I mean, the industry is talking a lot
about alternative gas technologies,so other than SF6.
And there are many solutionsout on the market.
And we also participate in this.
But there's one hot question:
what about the SF6that is already in our switchgears?
Right. What to do about that.
And what we have developed is a solutionto replace that SF6.
(18:55):
But take it out and refill the acidwith an alternative gas technology.
It works the same way as it did before.
It's basically a gas swap.
And that's beautiful because one thing isputting a switchgear new into the market.
Right.
But the other thing is
what to do with the SF6that is already in the installed base.
And we have a solution that works
and we will expand itto all ranges of the portfolio.
(19:16):
So right now we have it 420 kV.
So that's the transmission levelas we call it.
But we want to run it to a much much widerportfolio.
Yeah.
Can you talk us through a real lifeexample
when you worked with a customerto replace SF6?
Or even better, is there a timewhen a customer came to you with a request
and you ended up providing themwith a service that made their offering
(19:38):
even more sustainable?
Yes, yes.
I mean, I talked a little bitabout legislation.
Yeah.
But legislation gives you the framework.
But many of our customers go beyond that.
So they are saying,okay, legislation is one thing,
but we have our own target,our own sustainability targets.
And what comes to my mind is immediatelyis a National Grid in the United Kingdom.
(19:59):
So by 2030,they want to get rid of 50% of their SF6.
And by 2050they want to have eliminated it.
And how to do that?
Now, exactly, this EconiQretrofil solution that I have explained,
you know, taking out the SF6, replace itwith an alternative gas solution
fits in perfectly to fulfill that target
of reducing SF6 by 50% by 2030.
(20:21):
Yeah.
Just to repeat what you just said,so that our listeners can really grasp
the solution that you're talking about,is replacing a SF6 with EconiQ.
Is that right? Correct.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, our solution that runs on EconiQumbrella, our EconiQ brand name.
Yeah.
And what we do is, you know,we replace SF6 with C4FN gas mixture. Yes.
Which is much more friendlyto the environment.
(20:43):
And so you gave us as an example,the National Grid in the United Kingdom.
Do you find thatthere are many other countries
that are following suitthat are saying by the year 2030,
we need to reduce our SF6 relianceby this much?
Yes, yes, it's super exciting timesright now to be in this industry
because the power industry I'min, I'm in a companies for 17 years.
(21:05):
It was a conservative industry.I mean, let's be honest.
But what's happening rightnow, it's remarkable.
It never happened beforebecause legislation is changing.
You know, the focus on sustainabilityis growing so much.
So the EU was a bit of a lighthouse,you know, coming with the new regulation.
Yeah.
The UK is followingSwitzerland, states in the US
(21:25):
you know also ban SF6looking after alternative technologies.
The Middle East will come for sure.
I mean there's a lot of SF6 thereand a lot of infrastructure.
And they will also change to greentechnologies and that is unprecedented.
So it sort of seems likefrom what you're saying
and again, correct me if I'm wrong, thatall these different industries
and governments are feeding off each otherand pushing each other to really push
(21:49):
for progress, to move things forwardto a higher standard.
Exactly.
In a way, government bodies set the tone,they set the direction.
But what we appreciate and observe is,I mean, many companies go beyond that
and really want to contributeand get rid of SF6
and look into alternative technologies.
And we really, really appreciate itand again, this never happened
(22:10):
in the industry before and it's actuallyquite exciting to be part of that.
Thanks so much for joining ustoday, Martin.
Thanks.
You filled in for uswhat asset managers are looking for
from high voltage engineers.
And you've provided more clarityaround high voltage equipment.
Also, some of the specific designprocesses involved in that.
Thanks for tuning in to this episode ofPower Pulse.
(22:31):
Until next time.
And that's it for today.
We'll be back soonwith some more great content.
But before you go,remember to give us a follow
so you don't miss an episode.
Thanks for tuning in. See you soon!
This episode was brought to you by HitachiEnergy.
Createdand introduced by Bárbara Freitas-Daniels.
Contentand scriptwriting by Cassandra Inay.
Guest speaker Martin Apfl.
(22:53):
Hosted by Sam Dash.
Produced and edited by Creative Chimps.
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