October 29, 2024 • 28 mins
When we say that EconiQ™ is at the forefront of sustainable innovation, we truly mean it and, in this episode, we’re bringing receipts!
This one is dedicated to all design engineers out there who want to know why EconiQ <
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
High voltage takes center stage
in this season of HitachiEnergy's Power Pulse podcast.
We promise to bring you great contentfrom the brightest minds in the business.
We'll discuss challenges, opportunities,and all the hot topics
any high voltage enthusiast
or anyone interested in sustainability,for that matter, is sure to enjoy.
This episode of the podcast is dedicatedto all design engineers interested
(00:22):
in the nitty gritty of HitachiEnergy's eco-efficient portfolio, EconiQ.
To answer all their questions,we invited Amaya Lago along.
Amaya is a territory managerin the European region.
She holds a master'sin industrial engineering and an MBA,
and has been in the industryfor over two decades.
Amaya will tell all design engineersexactly why the claim we make that
we have the one solution with zero SF6and the lowest carbon
(00:45):
footprint is absolutely trueand backed by tried and tested science.
So all designengineers on the fence, do tune in.
Before we get stuck in though,we should add that all non-design
engineers will also mostdefinitely find this episode interesting.
We'll make sure to keep itjargon free and accessible to all.
Enjoy!
Welcome back to Power Pulse.
I'm your host, Sam Dash, and todayI'm speaking with Amaya Lago,
(01:08):
Hub Product Marketing Managerfor the European region.
Hi Amaya. Hello.
So, Amaya, can you talk to me a little bitabout your trajectory into high voltage?
I saw that you have a fascinationwith neuroscience,
and that's quite personal to you.
Can you tell us a littlebit more about that? Sure.
I have three
(01:28):
boys, and one of them, has dyslexia.
We found out that he was strugglingsomehow when he was four years old.
And in that moment, I decided to learn
how the brain learnsin order to help him to learn.
Because not all functionswere properly working in his brain.
(01:48):
So to try to have tools to help himlearn what he needed in a different way,
and then learning about the brain becamemy hobby.
Also, my father is a doctor.
So whenever it was too technical for me,I would share it with him.
So it became our hobby. Yeah.
And everybody has a brain, so I find itvery useful for my everyday job.
Yeah,there's something interesting about that.
(02:10):
You have also decided to work inan industry where everyone uses energy
and you're working in that fieldto understand how we use that energy
and how you can better understandthe needs of the people using it.
That's right.
And also, some people have the perceptionthat engineering
is like very structuredand like, kind of boring job.
(02:33):
I think engineeringis a very creative job.
I have met many colleaguesthat also have dyslexia, and
they see the reality in a different way.
So they help us to find differentsolutions that very often are better
than the ones that people that don't havethese problems might reach.
Because we go through shortcuts, they havedifferent tools do the same things.
(02:53):
So I have had wonderful experienceswith some colleagues that I told,
how did you see that? No.
And they told me, no, I'm dyslexic,so I had to search this way.
And then they perceived thingsthat we were not paying attention to.
Right.
That's the skill set that I feel likeis quite valuable in multiple arenas,
with your family, for example.
But then also in a work environmentwhere you're really looking for solutions
(03:15):
that are outside the box. Is that right?
Exactly, yes. Yes, absolutely.
So I've also heard that you'revery passionate about sustainability,
and I'd love for you to tell meand our listeners more about that
and what innovations you see as gamechangers currently.
Well, I believe that sustainabilityis part of our responsibility.
I believe that we need to take care
(03:38):
of the future,especially talking about my kids.
I want to be sure I'm doing my bestto ensure a good future
for the new generations.
So it's a must for us and it's a priority.
Now, we are in the electric industry.
We are going through a very,very strong change.
Talking to our customers,
we say that we see a change thatwe haven't seen probably in 100 years.
(04:01):
So it's a major game changer right now.
And I'm very, very passionate about,of course, our solution,
the solution that Hitachi Energy developedand we keep on developing
to serve the purposewe have for high voltage products.
And what is that game changer?
Basically, until now,we have spent over 40 years
(04:22):
developing products that use a gasthat is very contaminant.
It has a very high global warmingpotential.
And that's SF6.Is that right? Yes, correct.
It has amazingcharacteristics technically,
but it has a very,very strong impact in the environment.
And it's simply not acceptableto keep on using it.
(04:44):
So we know the technical characteristicswe need.
So we investigated strongly.
There was a creative process in between.
And our talentedR&D engineers managed to find a solution
that basically fits two purposes.
On one hand, it fulfills all the technical
requirements that we needfrom the high voltage switchgear.
(05:06):
And on the other hand,it is the best solution
from a sustainable perspective,because whenever we design any high
voltage product, we need to thinkwhat is the purpose of a product.
That cannot be forgotten.
So it has to fulfillall the technical requirements
while also fulfilling the sustainabilityrequirements.
You know, that makes me think,
(05:27):
you just said a little while agothat this is a pivotal
time in the industrythat hasn't existed in over 100 years.
For those of us who are unfamiliar orless familiar with the history of energy
and the industry, can you tell us a bitabout what that history is
and what that pivotal moment was100 years ago or so.
We were using many differenttechnologies in the past,
(05:50):
including small volume of oil.
We were using vacuum technology.
We were using many different technologiesuntil the SF6 technology appeared.
When we were able to control properlythe SF6
as an insulating gas,then we used it massively.
All manufacturers used it andwe have been using it for over 50 years.
(06:14):
Slowly and steadily it was substituted
by different technologies from the lowvoltage to the medium voltage,
and the last products to be substitutedwere in high voltage.
We started quite early.
In fact, Hitachi Energycommissioned the first breaker
without SF6 with the technologywe are using today in year 2010.
(06:36):
Okay.
So by now we already havea very good experience at site,
not only in the laboratory, becauseI always say that nature can surprise you.
Nature can surprise you. Yeah.
So in the labwe test everything possible, but
the sure nature will showthat we didn't test enough.
So we have already quitea valuable experience
(06:57):
at site with this technologythat we call EconiQ.
And honestly, we learned a lot togetherwith our customers.
Yeah.
And we are still developing a lotof the portfolio because as I explained,
in order to have a portfolio,we have to deal with SF6.
It took us 40 years.
So we are still developing the portfoliowith a new technology.
But there are amazing times coming.
(07:18):
Yeah. And it takes time to get there.
Yes, of course, because for us, it'snot only the fact that you launch
a product that has a good performance,the product has to be reliable
and it has to be able to workeven in the most challenging conditions.
Right? Right.
You know, you mentioned earliera bit about engineers,
and I wonderif we can go back to some basics.
(07:41):
Can you explain what a design engineerat a typical utility company does?
Yes, of course it's a hard job,I have to tell you.
Yeah.
The design engineerhas to take into account
the needs of the engineering department,which are the ones that are
doing the drawings and planninghow everything will be in the substation.
The construction department,which is the one that really builds
(08:03):
the substation and typically has differentneeds from the product.
And then the maintenance department,which is the one that basically operates
the product and maintains the productuntil the end of life.
And typically they also take careof removing the product
and making sure that it is recycledat the end of life.
So typically the needssometimes have conflicts, for example,
(08:26):
typically the engineering departmentwill require
the product to be very compactbecause typically their land is limited.
The space is limited. Yeah.
But the maintenance departmentwould like to have access
everywhere to the productin order to do the maintenance.
And in order to have access,you cannot make it too compact.
So there are different interests fromthe different stakeholders in the utility.
(08:49):
And the design engineershave to come up with a balance,
let's say, a solutionthat will fit all the needs of the utility
and they write down a specificationin order to make sure
that what the company is usingand procuring fulfills what they need.
Also, they need to know what the networkrequires; the electrical network.
(09:09):
The network is not the samein every country, and even its behavior
the same in every region,it will depend on
how many power plants there areor how many industries there are.
It varies and they need to havea very good information on their network.
Yeah, so it seems like designengineers are balancing
quite a lot of different components,mediating the needs of a lot of different
(09:33):
stakeholders and forces.Is that right? Yes, yes.
They need a very broad knowledgeon the needs of the utility
and also the productsavailable in the market.
So when you visit a design engineer,
I assume you talk with design engineerson a daily basis.
On a daily basis.
Yes. When you talk with them,what questions are you asked most
and what are your answersthat you give them?
(09:54):
Yeah, when I talk to designengineers in general,
the first thing I do is listen to them.
Yeah.
Because I always say thatwe know how to manufacture products, but
they know how to use them better than usbecause actually we manufacture them,
we ship them, we commission them,but then they use them.
They have the experience on the groundwith those products. Yes.
So all the feedback they provide usfor us is gold.
(10:18):
And one of the targets of my jobis to tell our R&D colleagues
what our customers need for the future,
because also, the networksevolve over time.
So the first thing I do is to ask them,what do they need, etc.
The questions I get related to thistechnology, to EconiQ is, for example,
if I'm sure that our lifecycle assessmentis the smallest one.
(10:40):
So the lifecycle assessment is the toolthat we use to measure the impact
in the environment of the full processto produce a product.
So it includes the production,the transportation to site,
the use of the productand then recycle it at the end of life.
So it's a toolwe use to measure the impact,
(11:02):
what we call the carbonfootprint, the impact on the environment.
And typically they ask if I'm sure that
the EconiQ portfolio has the lowestlifecycle assessment.
And of course, I'm sure.
I typically explain themthe main contributors
to this impact of the environmentto the lifecycle are the material.
And when we are not considering SF6,and our product has the best performance
(11:26):
in this field, and not only that,our product is the most compact product.
So as it is more compact,it uses less material,
but also it will require a smallerbuilding and then the civil works
will be smaller, and civil workshopswill have a very strong impact
in the environment.
As a general solution,
it's quite compact, it is scalableand it has the lowest carbon footprint.
(11:49):
And when you say scalable,can you say more about that?
What that means? Yes.
The solution that we foundcan be used from 72.5 kilovolt,
which is the lowest voltage that weconsider in high voltage up with no limit.
Right now we have available products
that are in the market up to 420 kV.
(12:12):
And there is more coming.
Yeah.
Amaya, how do you make sure thatyour equipment complies with regulations?
Well, basically right nowmost governments are concerned
about sustainability and they are puttinglimits in the use of F-gases.
So let's say the technologywe have been using
until now was using SF6,which we know is a gas
(12:33):
that has a very strong impactin the environment.
And the new equipmentthat we are proposing to be used
contains, for the lifetimebreakers, only CO2 O2.
So we use 90% of CO2 and 10% of O2,which is oxygen.
And for the metal-enclosed switchgear,we add on top an F-gas
(12:55):
that is called C4FN, and we only use 3.5%of the gas mixture of the C4FN.
The rest is CO2 and O2.
Now C4FN is a gas that has a substantiallylower impact in the environment.
So the GWP equivalent of the gasmixture is a little bit under 400.
(13:15):
And the C4FN is a gasthat is classified as nontoxic.
And also it decomposes in nature inpresence of the light in about 30 years.
So basically the impact in the environmentbecause of any losses
that we might have of the gasmixture is negligible.
While we can make the equipmentsubstantially smaller, much compact.
(13:39):
So we use less material.
And because of that,
the impact in the environmentis substantially lower as a whole.
So when we look on the full lifecycleof the product,
so the impact in the environmentto extract the raw materials
to manufacture the product,to transport it to site, to use it
and then to remove it at end of lifeand recycle it.
(14:00):
The full lifecycle CO2equivalent is substantially lower,
even if we use C4FN in the gas mixture,
just because we are able to do the productsmaller and more compact.
And not only that, many of our products,well all of our products
require civil works,but many of them are inside buildings,
so the civil works are even more importantto be done in the substations.
(14:25):
And the impact on the environmentof the civil works are also very relevant.
So if you need bigger buildings,the impact in the environment
is going to be bigger.
So in general, the way we fulfill
the regulations is through two ways.
On one hand,our performance related to sustainability
or the lifecycle CO2 equivalent
(14:45):
is substantially lower than othersolutions available in the market.
And also, technically,we fulfill the technical specifications,
which is the main purpose for the highvoltage equipment in the substations.
And just to go back a moment,when you say that gas in
EconiQ decomposesnaturally and takes 30 years, right? Yes.
And you said that the effect of thatis negligible.
(15:08):
For those of us outside of the industry,what does that mean when
something is negligible?
For example,if we take as an example, Norway,
and if we install a gasinsulated switchgear in that country
where we say the energy mix is CO2 neutral
because they have a lot of green energy.
(15:29):
Then if we look at the impactin the environment of an SF6
switchgear,the majority of the contribution
to the impact of the environmentis the leakages of SF6
because SF6 has a very high globalwarming potential.
But when we look at the impactof the environment, if we use the new gas
(15:50):
mixture, the CO2 O2 and 3.5% of C4FN,
the impact in the environment is so smallcompared to the materials.
Let's say we can forget about it.
The materials in that case are about 80%of all the impact
of all the industrial processas I explained previously.
(16:11):
So it's quite small by comparisonto the previous infrastructure
that was being relied on.
Exactly, because of the change of the gasmixture that we are using.
It's a game changer.
Again, the way we evaluate the impact inthe environment is totally different.
In the past, we were fully focusedon minimizing the leakages
and how to control the SF6we had inside the compartments.
(16:34):
For example, typically,we use density monitors
to ensure that there is no leakage.
We are permanently monitoring the gaswe have in the new substations.
We also have density monitorsfor other reasons.
Basically, if we lose the gas,the equipment will not work properly.
So we need to know.
But the impact in the environmentis so small
compared to the impact of the materialsthat we don't even take it into account.
(16:57):
Interesting.
Now I've seen that the EU, for example,the European Union, has passed a law
this year which
focuses on the phasing out of F-gasesin the high voltage energy sector.
Does this law include all F-gases?
This law is regulating many F-gases.
Yeah. Very relevant amount.
I'm not sure if it contains all F-gasesbecause there is a lot of annexes
(17:22):
in the regulation. Right.
Surely I would say that it limits,if not all,
most of those that are being usednot only in the electrical industry.
It is a regulation for all industriesin the European Union.
Oh, interesting.
And so the EconiQ gas mixture,which does contain
an F-gas, Fluorine gas,;wheredoes this fall in the new regulation?
(17:43):
Not all our portfolio uses the F-gas.
In the lifetime breakerswe only use CO2 O2.
So our base gas mixture is always CO2 O2.
Okay.
And in the live tank breakerswe don't need to add anything else.
And then we use 90% CO2 and 10% O2.
Whenever we have a metal enclosure,we add 3.5% of these F-gas
(18:07):
that has a substantially lower GWPin order to make the product more compact.
So it has a much lower global warmingpotential than lots of other F-gases.
Is that right?
Yes. For example, SF6 has a global warmingpotential of 24,300,
while the gas mixture that we usewhen we use 3.5% of this F-gas,
(18:28):
it has a GWP slightly lower than 400,which is a very relevant change now.
And what the number meansis that one kilo of the gas mixture
or one kilo of SF6 is equivalentto 24,300 kilos of CO2, or one
kilo of the gas mixture is equivalentto almost 400 kilos of CO2.
Right. So it's quite an improvement. Yeah.
(18:51):
And that's whywhenever we are using the new gas mixture,
even if there are leakagesto the atmosphere,
the impact that it hasis basically negligible.
But it allows us to usemuch less material.
So all the impact in the environment,because we use less
material is basically savedbecause we are using this gas mixture
(19:11):
for metal-enclosed switchgear, andthat's a relevant change in the results.
And not only that,because we are using gas breakers,
we have better technical performancewhen it relates to all the purpose
that the high voltage equipmenthas to fulfill in the substation.
So Amaya, talk to us about the technicalspecifications and requirements
that the customers have.
(19:32):
Are those particular for usewith a certain kind of technology?
The technical specification is the basis.
So what design engineers do,which is basically
the technical specificationsfor us, for the manufacturers
is the basis for discussion.
We cannot talk about sustainabilityif we are not sure
that the electrical networksare safely used.
(19:54):
The electricity is the backboneenergy of today's world.
It is the most sustainable wayto transport energy,
but we need to ensure that it is safeand reliable
and in order to be sure about it,we need to be sure
that the technical requirementsthat the customers have are fulfilled.
This is the basis and cannot be discussed.
(20:15):
That is why our solution is the bestone that the customers can choose.
When you say it can't be discussed,do you mean like it's non-negotiable?
In general it is not.
Of course,in every technical specification
you will find requirements that are musthave and others that are nice to have.
Right, Right.
So of course we can make commentsand we can do questions.
(20:37):
But for the main technical characteristicsand also sometimes the size,
for example, if there is no more landavailable, there is no more land.
So the technical specificationsinclude a lot of information.
The temperature, for example.
In Europe,which is the market I take care of,
we have regions that are even -60 degreesand we have to fulfill.
(20:59):
Or whenever we use some equipmentthat is indoor, it has to be indoor.
And we need to make sure that it will workproperly indoor or outdoor.
So there are some technicalcharacteristics of all kinds,
not only electrical characteristicsthat have to be fulfilled
in order to ensure that the substationwill function properly.
Now, I'm told that Hitachi Energy madeEconiQ possible, with the help of design
(21:21):
engineers who helped achieve milestoneslike the 420 kV dead tank breaker.
How does the EconiQ portfolio differfrom other solutions in your mind?
Well, the EconiQ portfolio has,
not only the technical reliability,but also the compactness and scalability.
The scalability meansthat we use this same gas mixture,
(21:42):
the same solution for lower voltagesand for very high voltages.
So today Hitachi Energy produces,even breakers, circuit
breakers, dead tank breakers, as you
mentioned, and also gas insulatedswitchgear up to 420
kV, which is a very high voltagelevel in Europe.
It is what we call the transmission level.
And of coursewe also produce it for lower voltage
(22:04):
levels for 145 for example, 145 kV.
So we use the same technologyall through the portfolio,
which is a very important advantagefor customers
because they have to be trainedonly on one technology.
Whenever they use it,they can use it safely because they know
the technology independent of the voltagelevel of that specific substation.
(22:25):
For the maintenance people,all the tools they have are common
for all the portfolio.
So it's a very important advantage.
Also, taking into account the safetyof the people that are using the products.
So you've touched on thisa little bit earlier
and we've had some other gueststalk about this as well.
But what do you seeas the future for the EconiQ portfolio
(22:45):
and what is your involvementin that journey?
Well, as I explained,
one of my jobs is to listen to thecustomers and understand what they need
and then come home and explainour talented
R&D engineers what we need in five years,not what we need now.
Right.
What we need in the coming years,
and what we need to developand the challenges we will face.
(23:07):
Because you need to be one step aheadreally.
Absolutely, for example,with all the renewable energy
that is being installed, the requirementsfor the network are changing.
And we are talking to our customers,they can share with us what they expect
to find in the future.
So we need to work now for the productswe need in a few years.
It takes long to develop a high voltageproduct.
Yeah, right. So that's part of my job.
(23:30):
Can you give us an example of somethingone of your clients has said to you
recently that speaks to this,that speaks to looking ahead,
we will need thisor we want this for our system.
Yes, it's very technical,but with a higher amount
of renewable energybeing installed in the network,
we find that we needhigher short circuit currents.
(23:52):
Higher short circuit currents, okay.
Because whenever there is a short circuit,if there is more generation,
we are providing more currentto the short circuit and it is increasing.
So because we have more renewablegeneration around that current
is increasing and we have to be readyto open that current with our breakers.
For those of us again,who are sort of outside the industry,
(24:14):
what does that looklike opening the current?
Well,
last month I went to a university, Madrid,to talk to the students, to explain them
everything that happens in a circuitbreaker in order to open the current.
Yeah.
And when I finished,they thought it was like a miracle.
Many things have to happeninside a breaker
to make surethat we interrupt the current.
(24:36):
And this is key for the safetyof the network and for the people also.
Yeah.
So it's a long technical process.
But basically you can imagine thatif the current increases, it
becomes more challengingto open that current in general.
So with higher short circuit currents,
a short circuit by itselfhas a very, very high current.
(24:56):
So openingthis current can be challenging.
And we need to make sure thatwe develop products that will be ready
available by the time that currentis higher than the actual one.
Do you see certain clients approachingthat time more quickly than others,
or is everyone around the worldreally on the same track
to approach that time simultaneously?
(25:16):
The world is very different in general.Yeah.
Even in Europe,not all regions are the same.
But it can happenthat you learn from a customer.
We have the case that customersuse our product in a different way
than we thought.
And it's actually safe, it's working.
And sometimes the solutionthat the customer explained to me
(25:36):
with our own products,
suddenly another customerfrom a different country
explains me their problem and I tell them,well, look, your colleagues
from this country solve this this waywith this product of our portfolio.
So these things also happenbecause, as I explained before,
the creativity of humans has no limit.
Yeah, I mean, you're circling back to sortof where we began in a beautiful way,
which is that there are other waysof looking at a problem, other solutions
(26:01):
that you may not see from your anglethat someone else can see from theirs.
And it's helpful to step into their shoes
and see what they're seeing,so you can be better informed
about the different possibilitiesat your fingertips.
Yes, absolutely. It’s a privilege. Yeah.
At least for me to be ableto see how our products perform
and also to collect the feedback,what do we have to improve.
(26:24):
And related to our EconiQ Portfolio,
we will see exciting things coming.
So very shortly we are going to releasethe live tank breaker in 420 kV
and we will also see coming
the new gas insulated switchgearin 550 kV, which is a very high voltage,
and also dead tank breaker in 550 kV.
(26:48):
And we alsohave a solution that we call retrofill.
So whenever we have a very long duct,like a very long tube filled in with SF6,
we can remove the SF6and use a different gas mixture.
Basically the new gas mixturewe are using with some changes.
So we actually reduce the carbon
(27:08):
footprint of alreadyexisting installations.
And that is also coming up to 550 kV.
Terrific.
So it sounds like we have a lotto look forward to. Absolutely.
And also we will have, after thatwe will have hybrids in 145 kV and 72 kV.
The hybrid is an equipmentbetween the air insulated switchgear
and the gas insulated switchgear.
(27:28):
And even actually now with SF6,we have the most compact design
and we are very,very excited to have it EconiQ very soon.
Thanks so much for joining ustoday, Amaya.
It's been a privilege.
You've expanded our understanding
of EconiQand what someone like a design engineer
contributes to the process of making moresustainable solutions for high voltage.
(27:49):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Power Pulse.
Until next time. Thank you.
And that's it for today.
We'll be back soonwith some more great content.
But before you go,remember to give us a follow
so you don't miss an episode.
Thanks for tuning in. See you soon.
This episode was brought to you by HitachiEnergy.
Createdand introduced by Bárbara Freitas-Daniels.
(28:10):
Content and scriptwriting by Cassandra Inay.
Guest speaker, Amaya Lago.
Hosted by Sam Dash.
Produced and edited by Creative Chimps.
High voltage takes center stage
in this season of HitachiEnergy's Power Pulse podcast.
We promise to bring you great contentfrom the brightest minds in the business.
We'll discuss challenges, opportunities,and all the hot topics
any high voltage enthusiast
or anyone interested in sustainability,for that matter, is sure to enjoy.
This episode of the podcast is dedicatedto all design engineers interested
(00:22):
in the nitty gritty of HitachiEnergy's eco-efficient portfolio, EconiQ.
To answer all their questions,we invited Amaya Lago along.
Amaya is a territory managerin the European region.
She holds a master'sin industrial engineering and an MBA,
and has been in the industryfor over two decades.
Amaya will tell all design engineersexactly why the claim we make that
we have the one solution with zero SF6and the lowest carbon
(00:45):
footprint is absolutely trueand backed by tried and tested science.
So all designengineers on the fence, do tune in.
Before we get stuck in though,we should add that all non-design
engineers will also mostdefinitely find this episode interesting.
We'll make sure to keep itjargon free and accessible to all.
Enjoy!
Welcome back to Power Pulse.
I'm your host, Sam Dash, and todayI'm speaking with Amaya Lago,
(01:08):
Hub Product Marketing Managerfor the European region.
Hi Amaya. Hello.
So, Amaya, can you talk to me a little bitabout your trajectory into high voltage?
I saw that you have a fascinationwith neuroscience,
and that's quite personal to you.
Can you tell us a littlebit more about that? Sure.
I have three
(01:28):
boys, and one of them, has dyslexia.
We found out that he was strugglingsomehow when he was four years old.
And in that moment, I decided to learn
how the brain learnsin order to help him to learn.
Because not all functionswere properly working in his brain.
(01:48):
So to try to have tools to help himlearn what he needed in a different way,
and then learning about the brain becamemy hobby.
Also, my father is a doctor.
So whenever it was too technical for me,I would share it with him.
So it became our hobby. Yeah.
And everybody has a brain, so I find itvery useful for my everyday job.
Yeah,there's something interesting about that.
(02:10):
You have also decided to work inan industry where everyone uses energy
and you're working in that fieldto understand how we use that energy
and how you can better understandthe needs of the people using it.
That's right.
And also, some people have the perceptionthat engineering
is like very structuredand like, kind of boring job.
(02:33):
I think engineeringis a very creative job.
I have met many colleaguesthat also have dyslexia, and
they see the reality in a different way.
So they help us to find differentsolutions that very often are better
than the ones that people that don't havethese problems might reach.
Because we go through shortcuts, they havedifferent tools do the same things.
(02:53):
So I have had wonderful experienceswith some colleagues that I told,
how did you see that? No.
And they told me, no, I'm dyslexic,so I had to search this way.
And then they perceived thingsthat we were not paying attention to.
Right.
That's the skill set that I feel likeis quite valuable in multiple arenas,
with your family, for example.
But then also in a work environmentwhere you're really looking for solutions
(03:15):
that are outside the box. Is that right?
Exactly, yes. Yes, absolutely.
So I've also heard that you'revery passionate about sustainability,
and I'd love for you to tell meand our listeners more about that
and what innovations you see as gamechangers currently.
Well, I believe that sustainabilityis part of our responsibility.
I believe that we need to take care
(03:38):
of the future,especially talking about my kids.
I want to be sure I'm doing my bestto ensure a good future
for the new generations.
So it's a must for us and it's a priority.
Now, we are in the electric industry.
We are going through a very,very strong change.
Talking to our customers,
we say that we see a change thatwe haven't seen probably in 100 years.
(04:01):
So it's a major game changer right now.
And I'm very, very passionate about,of course, our solution,
the solution that Hitachi Energy developedand we keep on developing
to serve the purposewe have for high voltage products.
And what is that game changer?
Basically, until now,we have spent over 40 years
(04:22):
developing products that use a gasthat is very contaminant.
It has a very high global warmingpotential.
And that's SF6.Is that right? Yes, correct.
It has amazingcharacteristics technically,
but it has a very,very strong impact in the environment.
And it's simply not acceptableto keep on using it.
(04:44):
So we know the technical characteristicswe need.
So we investigated strongly.
There was a creative process in between.
And our talentedR&D engineers managed to find a solution
that basically fits two purposes.
On one hand, it fulfills all the technical
requirements that we needfrom the high voltage switchgear.
(05:06):
And on the other hand,it is the best solution
from a sustainable perspective,because whenever we design any high
voltage product, we need to thinkwhat is the purpose of a product.
That cannot be forgotten.
So it has to fulfillall the technical requirements
while also fulfilling the sustainabilityrequirements.
You know, that makes me think,
(05:27):
you just said a little while agothat this is a pivotal
time in the industrythat hasn't existed in over 100 years.
For those of us who are unfamiliar orless familiar with the history of energy
and the industry, can you tell us a bitabout what that history is
and what that pivotal moment was100 years ago or so.
We were using many differenttechnologies in the past,
(05:50):
including small volume of oil.
We were using vacuum technology.
We were using many different technologiesuntil the SF6 technology appeared.
When we were able to control properlythe SF6
as an insulating gas,then we used it massively.
All manufacturers used it andwe have been using it for over 50 years.
(06:14):
Slowly and steadily it was substituted
by different technologies from the lowvoltage to the medium voltage,
and the last products to be substitutedwere in high voltage.
We started quite early.
In fact, Hitachi Energycommissioned the first breaker
without SF6 with the technologywe are using today in year 2010.
(06:36):
Okay.
So by now we already havea very good experience at site,
not only in the laboratory, becauseI always say that nature can surprise you.
Nature can surprise you. Yeah.
So in the labwe test everything possible, but
the sure nature will showthat we didn't test enough.
So we have already quitea valuable experience
(06:57):
at site with this technologythat we call EconiQ.
And honestly, we learned a lot togetherwith our customers.
Yeah.
And we are still developing a lotof the portfolio because as I explained,
in order to have a portfolio,we have to deal with SF6.
It took us 40 years.
So we are still developing the portfoliowith a new technology.
But there are amazing times coming.
(07:18):
Yeah. And it takes time to get there.
Yes, of course, because for us, it'snot only the fact that you launch
a product that has a good performance,the product has to be reliable
and it has to be able to workeven in the most challenging conditions.
Right? Right.
You know, you mentioned earliera bit about engineers,
and I wonderif we can go back to some basics.
(07:41):
Can you explain what a design engineerat a typical utility company does?
Yes, of course it's a hard job,I have to tell you.
Yeah.
The design engineerhas to take into account
the needs of the engineering department,which are the ones that are
doing the drawings and planninghow everything will be in the substation.
The construction department,which is the one that really builds
(08:03):
the substation and typically has differentneeds from the product.
And then the maintenance department,which is the one that basically operates
the product and maintains the productuntil the end of life.
And typically they also take careof removing the product
and making sure that it is recycledat the end of life.
So typically the needssometimes have conflicts, for example,
(08:26):
typically the engineering departmentwill require
the product to be very compactbecause typically their land is limited.
The space is limited. Yeah.
But the maintenance departmentwould like to have access
everywhere to the productin order to do the maintenance.
And in order to have access,you cannot make it too compact.
So there are different interests fromthe different stakeholders in the utility.
(08:49):
And the design engineershave to come up with a balance,
let's say, a solutionthat will fit all the needs of the utility
and they write down a specificationin order to make sure
that what the company is usingand procuring fulfills what they need.
Also, they need to know what the networkrequires; the electrical network.
(09:09):
The network is not the samein every country, and even its behavior
the same in every region,it will depend on
how many power plants there areor how many industries there are.
It varies and they need to havea very good information on their network.
Yeah, so it seems like designengineers are balancing
quite a lot of different components,mediating the needs of a lot of different
(09:33):
stakeholders and forces.Is that right? Yes, yes.
They need a very broad knowledgeon the needs of the utility
and also the productsavailable in the market.
So when you visit a design engineer,
I assume you talk with design engineerson a daily basis.
On a daily basis.
Yes. When you talk with them,what questions are you asked most
and what are your answersthat you give them?
(09:54):
Yeah, when I talk to designengineers in general,
the first thing I do is listen to them.
Yeah.
Because I always say thatwe know how to manufacture products, but
they know how to use them better than usbecause actually we manufacture them,
we ship them, we commission them,but then they use them.
They have the experience on the groundwith those products. Yes.
So all the feedback they provide usfor us is gold.
(10:18):
And one of the targets of my jobis to tell our R&D colleagues
what our customers need for the future,
because also, the networksevolve over time.
So the first thing I do is to ask them,what do they need, etc.
The questions I get related to thistechnology, to EconiQ is, for example,
if I'm sure that our lifecycle assessmentis the smallest one.
(10:40):
So the lifecycle assessment is the toolthat we use to measure the impact
in the environment of the full processto produce a product.
So it includes the production,the transportation to site,
the use of the productand then recycle it at the end of life.
So it's a toolwe use to measure the impact,
(11:02):
what we call the carbonfootprint, the impact on the environment.
And typically they ask if I'm sure that
the EconiQ portfolio has the lowestlifecycle assessment.
And of course, I'm sure.
I typically explain themthe main contributors
to this impact of the environmentto the lifecycle are the material.
And when we are not considering SF6,and our product has the best performance
(11:26):
in this field, and not only that,our product is the most compact product.
So as it is more compact,it uses less material,
but also it will require a smallerbuilding and then the civil works
will be smaller, and civil workshopswill have a very strong impact
in the environment.
As a general solution,
it's quite compact, it is scalableand it has the lowest carbon footprint.
(11:49):
And when you say scalable,can you say more about that?
What that means? Yes.
The solution that we foundcan be used from 72.5 kilovolt,
which is the lowest voltage that weconsider in high voltage up with no limit.
Right now we have available products
that are in the market up to 420 kV.
(12:12):
And there is more coming.
Yeah.
Amaya, how do you make sure thatyour equipment complies with regulations?
Well, basically right nowmost governments are concerned
about sustainability and they are puttinglimits in the use of F-gases.
So let's say the technologywe have been using
until now was using SF6,which we know is a gas
(12:33):
that has a very strong impactin the environment.
And the new equipmentthat we are proposing to be used
contains, for the lifetimebreakers, only CO2 O2.
So we use 90% of CO2 and 10% of O2,which is oxygen.
And for the metal-enclosed switchgear,we add on top an F-gas
(12:55):
that is called C4FN, and we only use 3.5%of the gas mixture of the C4FN.
The rest is CO2 and O2.
Now C4FN is a gas that has a substantiallylower impact in the environment.
So the GWP equivalent of the gasmixture is a little bit under 400.
(13:15):
And the C4FN is a gasthat is classified as nontoxic.
And also it decomposes in nature inpresence of the light in about 30 years.
So basically the impact in the environmentbecause of any losses
that we might have of the gasmixture is negligible.
While we can make the equipmentsubstantially smaller, much compact.
(13:39):
So we use less material.
And because of that,
the impact in the environmentis substantially lower as a whole.
So when we look on the full lifecycleof the product,
so the impact in the environmentto extract the raw materials
to manufacture the product,to transport it to site, to use it
and then to remove it at end of lifeand recycle it.
(14:00):
The full lifecycle CO2equivalent is substantially lower,
even if we use C4FN in the gas mixture,
just because we are able to do the productsmaller and more compact.
And not only that, many of our products,well all of our products
require civil works,but many of them are inside buildings,
so the civil works are even more importantto be done in the substations.
(14:25):
And the impact on the environmentof the civil works are also very relevant.
So if you need bigger buildings,the impact in the environment
is going to be bigger.
So in general, the way we fulfill
the regulations is through two ways.
On one hand,our performance related to sustainability
or the lifecycle CO2 equivalent
(14:45):
is substantially lower than othersolutions available in the market.
And also, technically,we fulfill the technical specifications,
which is the main purpose for the highvoltage equipment in the substations.
And just to go back a moment,when you say that gas in
EconiQ decomposesnaturally and takes 30 years, right? Yes.
And you said that the effect of thatis negligible.
(15:08):
For those of us outside of the industry,what does that mean when
something is negligible?
For example,if we take as an example, Norway,
and if we install a gasinsulated switchgear in that country
where we say the energy mix is CO2 neutral
because they have a lot of green energy.
(15:29):
Then if we look at the impactin the environment of an SF6
switchgear,the majority of the contribution
to the impact of the environmentis the leakages of SF6
because SF6 has a very high globalwarming potential.
But when we look at the impactof the environment, if we use the new gas
(15:50):
mixture, the CO2 O2 and 3.5% of C4FN,
the impact in the environment is so smallcompared to the materials.
Let's say we can forget about it.
The materials in that case are about 80%of all the impact
of all the industrial processas I explained previously.
(16:11):
So it's quite small by comparisonto the previous infrastructure
that was being relied on.
Exactly, because of the change of the gasmixture that we are using.
It's a game changer.
Again, the way we evaluate the impact inthe environment is totally different.
In the past, we were fully focusedon minimizing the leakages
and how to control the SF6we had inside the compartments.
(16:34):
For example, typically,we use density monitors
to ensure that there is no leakage.
We are permanently monitoring the gaswe have in the new substations.
We also have density monitorsfor other reasons.
Basically, if we lose the gas,the equipment will not work properly.
So we need to know.
But the impact in the environmentis so small
compared to the impact of the materialsthat we don't even take it into account.
(16:57):
Interesting.
Now I've seen that the EU, for example,the European Union, has passed a law
this year which
focuses on the phasing out of F-gasesin the high voltage energy sector.
Does this law include all F-gases?
This law is regulating many F-gases.
Yeah. Very relevant amount.
I'm not sure if it contains all F-gasesbecause there is a lot of annexes
(17:22):
in the regulation. Right.
Surely I would say that it limits,if not all,
most of those that are being usednot only in the electrical industry.
It is a regulation for all industriesin the European Union.
Oh, interesting.
And so the EconiQ gas mixture,which does contain
an F-gas, Fluorine gas,;wheredoes this fall in the new regulation?
(17:43):
Not all our portfolio uses the F-gas.
In the lifetime breakerswe only use CO2 O2.
So our base gas mixture is always CO2 O2.
Okay.
And in the live tank breakerswe don't need to add anything else.
And then we use 90% CO2 and 10% O2.
Whenever we have a metal enclosure,we add 3.5% of these F-gas
(18:07):
that has a substantially lower GWPin order to make the product more compact.
So it has a much lower global warmingpotential than lots of other F-gases.
Is that right?
Yes. For example, SF6 has a global warmingpotential of 24,300,
while the gas mixture that we usewhen we use 3.5% of this F-gas,
(18:28):
it has a GWP slightly lower than 400,which is a very relevant change now.
And what the number meansis that one kilo of the gas mixture
or one kilo of SF6 is equivalentto 24,300 kilos of CO2, or one
kilo of the gas mixture is equivalentto almost 400 kilos of CO2.
Right. So it's quite an improvement. Yeah.
(18:51):
And that's whywhenever we are using the new gas mixture,
even if there are leakagesto the atmosphere,
the impact that it hasis basically negligible.
But it allows us to usemuch less material.
So all the impact in the environment,because we use less
material is basically savedbecause we are using this gas mixture
(19:11):
for metal-enclosed switchgear, andthat's a relevant change in the results.
And not only that,because we are using gas breakers,
we have better technical performancewhen it relates to all the purpose
that the high voltage equipmenthas to fulfill in the substation.
So Amaya, talk to us about the technicalspecifications and requirements
that the customers have.
(19:32):
Are those particular for usewith a certain kind of technology?
The technical specification is the basis.
So what design engineers do,which is basically
the technical specificationsfor us, for the manufacturers
is the basis for discussion.
We cannot talk about sustainabilityif we are not sure
that the electrical networksare safely used.
(19:54):
The electricity is the backboneenergy of today's world.
It is the most sustainable wayto transport energy,
but we need to ensure that it is safeand reliable
and in order to be sure about it,we need to be sure
that the technical requirementsthat the customers have are fulfilled.
This is the basis and cannot be discussed.
(20:15):
That is why our solution is the bestone that the customers can choose.
When you say it can't be discussed,do you mean like it's non-negotiable?
In general it is not.
Of course,in every technical specification
you will find requirements that are musthave and others that are nice to have.
Right, Right.
So of course we can make commentsand we can do questions.
(20:37):
But for the main technical characteristicsand also sometimes the size,
for example, if there is no more landavailable, there is no more land.
So the technical specificationsinclude a lot of information.
The temperature, for example.
In Europe,which is the market I take care of,
we have regions that are even -60 degreesand we have to fulfill.
(20:59):
Or whenever we use some equipmentthat is indoor, it has to be indoor.
And we need to make sure that it will workproperly indoor or outdoor.
So there are some technicalcharacteristics of all kinds,
not only electrical characteristicsthat have to be fulfilled
in order to ensure that the substationwill function properly.
Now, I'm told that Hitachi Energy madeEconiQ possible, with the help of design
(21:21):
engineers who helped achieve milestoneslike the 420 kV dead tank breaker.
How does the EconiQ portfolio differfrom other solutions in your mind?
Well, the EconiQ portfolio has,
not only the technical reliability,but also the compactness and scalability.
The scalability meansthat we use this same gas mixture,
(21:42):
the same solution for lower voltagesand for very high voltages.
So today Hitachi Energy produces,even breakers, circuit
breakers, dead tank breakers, as you
mentioned, and also gas insulatedswitchgear up to 420
kV, which is a very high voltagelevel in Europe.
It is what we call the transmission level.
And of coursewe also produce it for lower voltage
(22:04):
levels for 145 for example, 145 kV.
So we use the same technologyall through the portfolio,
which is a very important advantagefor customers
because they have to be trainedonly on one technology.
Whenever they use it,they can use it safely because they know
the technology independent of the voltagelevel of that specific substation.
(22:25):
For the maintenance people,all the tools they have are common
for all the portfolio.
So it's a very important advantage.
Also, taking into account the safetyof the people that are using the products.
So you've touched on thisa little bit earlier
and we've had some other gueststalk about this as well.
But what do you seeas the future for the EconiQ portfolio
(22:45):
and what is your involvementin that journey?
Well, as I explained,
one of my jobs is to listen to thecustomers and understand what they need
and then come home and explainour talented
R&D engineers what we need in five years,not what we need now.
Right.
What we need in the coming years,
and what we need to developand the challenges we will face.
(23:07):
Because you need to be one step aheadreally.
Absolutely, for example,with all the renewable energy
that is being installed, the requirementsfor the network are changing.
And we are talking to our customers,they can share with us what they expect
to find in the future.
So we need to work now for the productswe need in a few years.
It takes long to develop a high voltageproduct.
Yeah, right. So that's part of my job.
(23:30):
Can you give us an example of somethingone of your clients has said to you
recently that speaks to this,that speaks to looking ahead,
we will need thisor we want this for our system.
Yes, it's very technical,but with a higher amount
of renewable energybeing installed in the network,
we find that we needhigher short circuit currents.
(23:52):
Higher short circuit currents, okay.
Because whenever there is a short circuit,if there is more generation,
we are providing more currentto the short circuit and it is increasing.
So because we have more renewablegeneration around that current
is increasing and we have to be readyto open that current with our breakers.
For those of us again,who are sort of outside the industry,
(24:14):
what does that looklike opening the current?
Well,
last month I went to a university, Madrid,to talk to the students, to explain them
everything that happens in a circuitbreaker in order to open the current.
Yeah.
And when I finished,they thought it was like a miracle.
Many things have to happeninside a breaker
to make surethat we interrupt the current.
(24:36):
And this is key for the safetyof the network and for the people also.
Yeah.
So it's a long technical process.
But basically you can imagine thatif the current increases, it
becomes more challengingto open that current in general.
So with higher short circuit currents,
a short circuit by itselfhas a very, very high current.
(24:56):
So openingthis current can be challenging.
And we need to make sure thatwe develop products that will be ready
available by the time that currentis higher than the actual one.
Do you see certain clients approachingthat time more quickly than others,
or is everyone around the worldreally on the same track
to approach that time simultaneously?
(25:16):
The world is very different in general.Yeah.
Even in Europe,not all regions are the same.
But it can happenthat you learn from a customer.
We have the case that customersuse our product in a different way
than we thought.
And it's actually safe, it's working.
And sometimes the solutionthat the customer explained to me
(25:36):
with our own products,
suddenly another customerfrom a different country
explains me their problem and I tell them,well, look, your colleagues
from this country solve this this waywith this product of our portfolio.
So these things also happenbecause, as I explained before,
the creativity of humans has no limit.
Yeah, I mean, you're circling back to sortof where we began in a beautiful way,
which is that there are other waysof looking at a problem, other solutions
(26:01):
that you may not see from your anglethat someone else can see from theirs.
And it's helpful to step into their shoes
and see what they're seeing,so you can be better informed
about the different possibilitiesat your fingertips.
Yes, absolutely. It’s a privilege. Yeah.
At least for me to be ableto see how our products perform
and also to collect the feedback,what do we have to improve.
(26:24):
And related to our EconiQ Portfolio,
we will see exciting things coming.
So very shortly we are going to releasethe live tank breaker in 420 kV
and we will also see coming
the new gas insulated switchgearin 550 kV, which is a very high voltage,
and also dead tank breaker in 550 kV.
(26:48):
And we alsohave a solution that we call retrofill.
So whenever we have a very long duct,like a very long tube filled in with SF6,
we can remove the SF6and use a different gas mixture.
Basically the new gas mixturewe are using with some changes.
So we actually reduce the carbon
(27:08):
footprint of alreadyexisting installations.
And that is also coming up to 550 kV.
Terrific.
So it sounds like we have a lotto look forward to. Absolutely.
And also we will have, after thatwe will have hybrids in 145 kV and 72 kV.
The hybrid is an equipmentbetween the air insulated switchgear
and the gas insulated switchgear.
(27:28):
And even actually now with SF6,we have the most compact design
and we are very,very excited to have it EconiQ very soon.
Thanks so much for joining ustoday, Amaya.
It's been a privilege.
You've expanded our understanding
of EconiQand what someone like a design engineer
contributes to the process of making moresustainable solutions for high voltage.
(27:49):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Power Pulse.
Until next time. Thank you.
And that's it for today.
We'll be back soonwith some more great content.
But before you go,remember to give us a follow
so you don't miss an episode.
Thanks for tuning in. See you soon.
This episode was brought to you by HitachiEnergy.
Createdand introduced by Bárbara Freitas-Daniels.
(28:10):
Content and scriptwriting by Cassandra Inay.
Guest speaker, Amaya Lago.
Hosted by Sam Dash.
Produced and edited by Creative Chimps.
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