Rebalancing the Brain: How Amino Acids Help ADHD and Mental Health

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
welcome to Power Up Recovery with nutrition
it is time to make nutrition part of the conversation
I'm your host Christina Vesiloc
and I'm so glad you're here
did you know that it's our brains job
to allow us to cope with stress gracefully
but to do that it needs to be fed optimally

(00:23):
have you ever wondered why so many committed people relapse
or maybe even die
why so many people in psychotropic medication still feel lousy
and still have cravings
what if the missing piece is food
the right food what if the right nutrients
like amino acids or even eating protein every 4 hours

(00:47):
could actually balance your brain chemistry and your mood
without medication and support lasting recovery
in this podcast
we explore the powerful connection between feeding your brain well
mental health relapse and recovery from addiction
we will share insights from experts

(01:08):
inspiring recovery stories and practical strategies you can use today
whether you're in recovery
a healthcare professional
or someone passionate about emotional well being
this show is for you
let's dive in
and discover how fueling your body and brain with the right food

(01:29):
the right amino acids
and other key nutrients can fuel your transformation today
welcome
hi everyone
welcome to the next episode of Power Up Recovery with nutrition
where we talk to fascinating people who use nutritional approaches to

(01:54):
aid people in their recovery journey
and prevents relapse
we share amazing
inspiring recovery stories and we look at cutting edge science
today I'm interviewing
and have a wonderful conversation with Michael Ferguson

(02:15):
who is really one of the pioneers on the cutting edge
of changing how we think about
and address attention deficit disorder
welcome thank you for having me
so can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do now
and then how you got into ADHD and addiction treatment and recovery

(02:42):
absolutely so what I do now is I
I am I've been an ADHD coach
I would call myself a life coach
I know actually
I'll talk about in a second way
I don't like calling myself an ADHD coach specifically
um I work with people all over the world um
based off of podcast that I've been doing since 2015
in a book I wrote called The Drummer in the Great Mountain

(03:04):
a guidebook to Transforming Adult Add ADHD
which came out in 2014
and so my work I'd say
in
what I think differentiates me in some ways to other people out there
is um
the what I proposed when I wrote the book in 2014
was that ADHD is a neurological type and

(03:25):
and to look at it more like that than a disorder
and the concept of it being using um
uh
having a having a viewpoint where you're not waking up
feeling like you're broken
but the issue is when we get into addiction
is that it leaves you wide open for addiction
we have less dopamine receptors

(03:46):
and as such stimuli
and anything you can get addicted to is connected to
the dopamine response and so
so much of what I do is connected to
understanding those pieces of what's going on in the brain chemistry
how do you support that through nutrition and exercise
and also support and so

(04:08):
a lot of what I do is give talks and give workshops and podcasts
and anyway else I can support people
and having a different view of what ADHD is
and it's a lot of people are artists entrepreneurs
doctors I work with a lot of therapists
which I would never predicted going into the doctors
cause I'm not a doctor um

(04:29):
that they wanna work with me
but I think there's a camaraderie amongst a lot of people who
feel like they're not broken
but they clearly have struggles with time management addiction
um and in terms of just being able to be on time
something we were just talking about
those are things that can shift through the right kinds of support

(04:52):
the right kinds of nutrition
the right kinds of support program
to where you're leaning on your strength versus um
just constantly in that space of negative self judgment
so being able to navigate through that is
I'd see a big piece of the work I do
that's really cool I mean
the reason
I wanted you speaking at the conference coming up in Columbus

(05:17):
which is on using nutritional strategies for relapse prevention
yeah is because as a relapse prevention specialist
which I spent 20 years doing in Denver
yeah yeah
you know I
I specialized in the chronic relapser
the person who gone through five six
seven programs who were trying to get to three meetings a day and yet

(05:39):
yeah
it wasn't working yeah
and I found that well
I found two things one
everybody had in common that they weren't eating regularly
or sufficiently and had starving brains
that's it yeah
right everybody had that in common
but then everybody else also had different barriers

(06:02):
and one of the big barriers that kept running up against
with my clients
was there either undiagnosed or not effectively address ADHD
absolutely and it had been part of what had driven
they are getting into addiction in the first place

(06:23):
but it was being a huge stumpling flock for their recovery journey
yeah because they were still struggling with life and therefore
still struggling with the feelings of shame and embarrassment
and despair and yeah
you know feeling broken
not only did they have addiction

(06:43):
but they couldn't accomplish the things
that their peers were accomplishing
yes and then in treatment
they were having trouble paying attention to the lectures
and they were having trouble doing the homework
and they were having trouble getting places on time and and
and yes
and for so many people in early recovery

(07:05):
it just was insurmountable
yeah and off
that's exactly
yeah and the issue there is that the ADHD struggles
you're queuing stress or queuing the cortisol
your which the stress as you know
it's like that's what perpetuates the cravings
the cravings that's right
people have the relapse right before they have

(07:26):
you know
whatever the thing is and then they're back to square one again
and so to handle that
that feedback loop by giving people the support with
here's your challenges
and here's some things you can do to support them
to keep your stress levels down
like you said
cause life's not gonna stop you're gonna have to manage life
but to be able to have strategies to do it

(07:47):
and also to know how to advocate for yourself is a big piece of that
because if you you can't take care of your
it's your job to take care of your nervous system
no one else is gonna do it for you
and as you know many of us have a hyper sensitive nervous system
and so we need to understand how to work with that through nutrition
through exercise and there's gonna be certain situations

(08:09):
in work situations and commitments that may be very challenging
I know some people I work with
they were like managers and they just can't like
we're not the best managers in the world
that's like we're we're great ideas people
we're great at therapy
like there's so many that teachers like work with lunch
but but management and doing like secretarial work

(08:30):
you're mentioning that is very difficult
it does not lean on our strengths
and so as a result I shared with you yes
I shared with you earlier
I got fired from every single secretario job I ever tried to get
yes well
and it LEDs you in a good direction clearly
well that good for you that that happened
yeah it did

(08:51):
but to know
it wouldn't be great to have known that like when you were 17 or 18
we're like okay
that kind of job is probably not the best thing for me to do
and I could be much more suited to society
by doing something that's more
leaning up my strengths it
it it
it would have helped my self esteem tremendously

(09:11):
had I known that back then
yeah
you know and we won't spend too much long here
but I think this is where diagnosis is a really interesting topic
because you know
we have to hold diagnoses loosely
and we don't want to let diagnoses define people

(09:32):
or stick people in boxes or let them stick themselves in a box
but I know that when I got my formal diagnosis of ADHD
when I was forty after struggling
you know as an adult until 40
it came as such a relief
it was like oh
you mean I'm not a bad

(09:53):
bad at this and bad
bad and bad at the other and lazy and stupid and all these things
you mean I just have a brain glitch
diagnosis can be
can be tricky because we don't want it to put people into boxes um
or define them or let them get stuck in their own box and oh
I can't do that because I have

(10:14):
but for myself when I got diagnosed at the age of 40 with ADHD
I had such relief yeah
I had such relief because it meant that I wasn't lazy
bad at this bad at stupid
you know all these things that had to find me up until then

(10:35):
yep and so many areas where I felt like a failure
and where I had enormous embarrassment and shame
you know I had horrible shame that I couldn't keep a neater house
and on and on and on and once this had a name
I could say yes
oh it's not me
I have a brain glitch okay
I can expect a brain glitch yeah

(10:56):
I'm not responsible for having the brain glitch
now I may be responsible for doing something about it
yes just like addiction right
we're not responsible for getting addicted per se
yes but we're responsible for doing something about it
absolutely absolutely
and I think you can even take a step back and I'm

(11:20):
in the book I re embraced the Hunter Farmers theory of ADHD
which are you are you familiar with that
Tom Hartman a little bit
a little bit absolutely
when I was writing the book
I really wanted to like I just didn't feel right to say a disorder
I just like that's doesn't feel right
because I know people that are extremely talented

(11:41):
who would not label themselves as a disorder
but they have these tendencies so um
the hunter farmers theory was the best thing that I could find
at the time and I've gone very deep into this
and I think it's what a lot of people resonate with when I
you know from the podcast and things like that
so you I use
I coined the term hunter type
and it's sort of a combination of the hunter farmer theory

(12:02):
and neurological type meaning ADHD is more of a neurological type
so in brief the hunter farmer theory
proposed by Tom Hartman in a book called Attention Deficit disorder
a Different Perspective 1992 uh
he proposed that people who are ADHD
are X percentage of the population

(12:22):
and we have the genetics of what would have made us good hunters
back in hunter gatherer society
so up until 10,000 years ago
we were everyone was hunter gatherers
that like it wasn't until 10,000 years ago when agriculture came in
that then this other way of survival happened
so hunter gatherers if you were a hunter

(12:45):
you would have to be distractable
you would have
you would have bursts of energy of hyper focus and relaxation after
and that is a very common cycle for a lot of people with ADHD
doing kind of day in and day out
farmer type activities where you're doing the same thing
day and day out towards a goal

(13:05):
somewhere future down the road
is totally a different way of living and handling survival
so there's so many now there's been studies done to see like
is this true and I just posted a study recently that they
they're now leaning towards maybe this is actually true
that there's genetics from hunter gathers

(13:25):
and that's why a certain percentage of the population is like this
and so you can go down the line of distractibility
you can also look into the lifestyle that tend to be more creative
there's actually more time for creativity in a hunter gatherer society
there's much more playtime
it's less arduous and I do think and we all
all of our ancestors were hunter gatherers

(13:46):
everyone on the planet
so uh
this resonates with a lot of people
but it gives ADHD a different way of looking at it
so instead of thinking of it as a disorder
okay you have these certain tendency
so if you're a hunter gatherer
you would have a high protein
low carb diet that would have been part of the diet right
uh you would be doing exercise on a regular basis

(14:09):
but in bursts you wouldn't be just like doing marathons every day
you would have short bursts of energy
and so
all of the things that I talk about that are scientifically proven to
support ADHD it really nicely into that model and so I call you fat
healthy fat exactly of course
because you would have to have healthy fats

(14:30):
cause you're storing that energy for the winter
you would have to have healthy fats
it's huge part of it um
so that just made sense
and I think a lot of people had dismissed that theory for a while
thinking well
it's not scientific
so but my argument was it doesn't matter if it's scientific or not
it's a metaphor that really

(14:50):
really works and care you can go down the line
and then there is some science to show that that might be possible
so to me having that more of a metaphor as a way of looking at ADHD
which is just one way to look at
other people have come up with other ways
but I find to be very helpful
cause then you can really study that and go
oh right this is you're important like

(15:12):
and even a lot of we have a large
I'd say 50 to 60% women listening to the podcast
and they remind me like there were hunter gather
there were women hunters as well
as well as gatherers
and like understanding that lifestyle is another way people live
this modern society is a relative way of living

(15:32):
it is not the end all be all for how you're supposed to live
culture is supposed to be
and so when you have that perspective
then you can kind of reduce that self judgment because you can say oh
well this is a culture that I didn't create
I'm here now I've got to survive in it
but maybe I can think of it like
going to another country where I don't know the language

(15:53):
I'm not gonna judge myself for not knowing the language
cause I didn't grow up here
cause clearly most neurotypical people
farmer types built the society
so how do we navigate and that's a lot of what I talk about is like
how do you re change the way you look at things
so that you can reduce the self judgment
and get back to a place of empowerment again

(16:16):
yes
and create a context for yourself that actually works for your brain
it reminds me of my daughter in elementary school
and she has an ADHD brain and
you know really struggled
and finally we gave up on the school system

(16:36):
and where we were living in Denver
we had some options including a school called
what's it called the Academy
something was Academy for Expeditionary Learning
perfect yes
where they went on outings
yeah
and they went on sailing trips and they did this and they did that

(17:00):
and they were moving and they were right yes
learning tactically
experiencing the learning and versus sitting down and reading a book
which is one of the least
you know
humans don't learn that way
human learn learn through doing things
and so I love it yeah
and
and while she still struggled because she would hyper focus and then

(17:23):
yeah not pay attention to anything else that was happening around her
and therefore she would miss instructions and she would miss that
and she would miss that and she would get into trouble
yep but
you know other than that
it was it worked for her yeah
yeah it is genetic too
I mean that's the other piece of ADHD as it gets passed down

(17:45):
so is it a disorder or is it just a neurological type that gets
but regardless
there's a struggle like we have to come back to the problem is
and the way the reason I think we experience it as a disorder
is that it creates an enormous amount of disorder
in our personal lives and therefore in our recovery journeys

(18:10):
so you speak to how you got into kind of addiction and ADHD
absolutely so uh
I had a relative so before I was
I started doing coaching in 2007
so around the same time I started
and it was I come from a media background
I own a media company and a graphic artist musician

(18:34):
so I came from that background
um and I started to slowly move into doing coaching
cause I found it was like a natural use of my talents
and people were asking me for that kind of support
and then I start to build up my own coaching system based on
um
what I was needing I kind of intuitively I needed

(18:56):
cause I ran my own company
I needed life coach so eventually I found someone that I would say
but I just basically said
here's what I need just do this in the coaching
I don't wanna know hear your system
here's what I need
and they were very generous in their time in doing that
and then I then developed a coaching system out of that
that I didn't took to help other people
so around that time um
I was working in connecting with a relative

(19:19):
I had connected with in a long time
who had struggle with alcoholism his whole life from like 16 on
and as you know it it's much harder when you start younger
the the yeah
it's it's
it gets much hard more hard wired and the worst yeah
and so I was trying to support him
and I didn't think about ADHD or anything like that

(19:40):
I was just wanting to support him and
and he said something that really cued me
which was he said that when I drink
I can think clearly and I can function and I can get things done
and I went ah
it was firing his dopamine
like that's it that's
so it LED me down the route of like just trying to help him like okay

(20:03):
well what is this about
so it got me into amino acid therapy
and Julia Ross in the mood cure uh
Doctor Kevin Mccauley's work
and as I was starting to formulate my own coaching practice
and helping people who were ADHD
I started to see well this
this book doesn't like I need to write a book cause this
this this needs to be out there

(20:23):
like there's certain things that I have and me
I'm also wired ADHD for sure since birth
and that I was fortunate at a young age around 20 to start
I start exercising daily I started cleaning up my diet
and it was like my life turned around
I would just like like someone flipped on a light switch
and my life got so much better after that

(20:46):
but I didn't connect it to ADHD or anything like that
I just saw oh
I just I guess eating healthy is good
you feel better
so then luckily I kind of was a little bit of a Guinea pig of like oh
I already know this stuff works
and so but
but supporting people in getting to that place
when habits have been built over long periods of time is yes

(21:09):
you know very difficult
so I wrote the book The Drummer in the Great Mountain
and then really connected with a lot more people
and was able to really verify
and solidify a lot of things that Julia Ross talks about
a lot of things that had worked for me
I hadn't taken it to that
level and so now we have a you know
big global audience of people that listen to the podcast

(21:30):
and I've talked to so many people
especially in recovery and I see the struggles
but the struggles are always come back to
how do you support the brain chemistry
how it like that's like 90% like if you get brain chemistry right
then time management support with
you know life coaching
those things help but if you don't handle the brain

(21:53):
can some people medication
that's their that's their
that's what helps them
the problem in what I wrote the book because I didn't
I wanted to have an alternative to medication
cause I was starting to see a lot of kids going into college
abusing Adderall and it became and I was
I was going down it's a thing
it's a it's a thing
and I was looking at a lot of some of the darker parts of the web

(22:16):
people expressing like how awful it was for them to
to go into this path where they were using stimulants
and it wasn't helping then obviously
a lot of people that weren't doing it
with someone who was monitoring them
and things like that so and they weren't given any other option
it was like this is the only thing we know to do to help your brain
take these pills that's right

(22:37):
and it kind of reinforced the you were you're broken in some way
you need to take these these meds
and again I'm oversimplifying
and I know not everyone agrees with this perspective
and I respect that but what I found
the feedback that I get from the podcast
especially from the recovery community is that um
it gives them a way of looking at themselves
where they don't feel that sense of shame

(22:58):
and when you reduce the shame
you're more able to have agency in your recovery
yes and so
to me that's my
so as we've been doing this work
uh neurodiversity has become a
a term that now references ADHD

(23:19):
which that was pretty much what I was saying when I wrote the book
Neurological Type it's not a disorder
and you're starting to hear now nerd
neurodivergent is becoming a real term that people are embracing
to refer to people with ADHD
and people in there so
you know everyone that it's less important what you call it
it's more about letting go of the shame

(23:42):
and having a way of looking at yourself
that gives you a sense of empowerment
and so all the work we do the
the context for all the workshops we do is to support people with that
with that perspective and to get them together
so they can interact with each other
and recognize
they're not the only ones in the world that experience this
which luckily by

(24:02):
at this point it's changed a lot since when I wrote that
but we know this right and
and it's a woman you know
it's now there are girls and
and adult women who you know
we know what it looks like in us
looks a little different in us than it can look like men
absolutely yeah
um I
I wanna ask you in a minute about

(24:24):
what are the nutraceutical approaches you found to be most helpful
but a little story here way
way way back in the day probably
oh I don't know
I was in my early 30s and I was working
I had just met Julia Ross and I was learning about amino acids

(24:44):
I was working with an alternative MD who had just discovered tyrozine
yep and now
my ADHD was not diagnosed then
I mean I have no idea about it
but you know
she told me why
I want you to take 1,000 mg of tyrosine three times a day
between meals upon arising

(25:05):
mid morning and mid afternoon
which is what I tell my students and what I tell my clients
and she's out here supposed to dose tyrosine yeah
yeah and I tried
oh I tried
I really tried and after a month
I called her up and I said
it's not working and she said
how come are you taking it

(25:26):
you know three times a day every day the way I told you to
I said no
I can't remember
I try to remember and I just forget
and then I forget and then I forget
I said can I not knowing I had add okay yeah
would it be okay if I took it with food
with my meals yeah
and she said well

(25:46):
I think so nobody knew about it then yeah
I think so because it's found in food
so try it yeah
now I tried it I had the bottle right in my placemat
oh well
and I could remember because I could pair it with right
you connected the habits together

(26:07):
yeah it was the cube
I could use that to cue me to remember
and I called her after a month and they said it's working
I have more energy I'm brighter now
I had still had nine other causes of depression
so I wasn't like completely and depressed
but I was better and I had more energy and the sun had come out

(26:30):
um and I was probably remembering better
because I now had the tyrozine in me
and it was improving my prefrontal cortex functioning
but I don't know that then
but it started my upward spiral once I could take it with food
yes interesting

(26:50):
that's it that's a good cause
I still take it
I just had some on an empty stomach and I'm still on that regiment
that's it's good to know that that's
that's helpful
I usually recommend it to taking it on on an empty stomach
so I love hearing that as a as a testimonial
that's wonderful
what's so nice about aminos is that they're so flexible and versatile

(27:11):
and while it's better to take them on an empty stomach
because you will get a clear
immediate response
you can take them with food and it will still get to where it's going
yes well
like you said it's in food
so that's that's the piece
so in terms of nutraceuticals that's
I love hearing that yeah
so Julia Ross's book was an eye opener

(27:32):
and I definitely explored it for myself first because I
I wanted to just integrate some of the things
especially increasing protein
20 to 30 grams of protein per meal
um and I was like
oh wow
that I remember having this moment of like oh
this is maybe around during the time I was writing the book going oh
this works yes
this is exactly it and I remembered when I had lived

(27:54):
I had spent some time living on kawaii
and I was eating a lot of fruits and a lot of that
like we live right next to a banana patch
so I'd have tons of banana
and I remember just feeling so fuzzy and bare
like just having terrible time with focus
and it was like oh
that's it and so that integrating salmon
which is you know
we have two or three times a week here
um all those things support the brain chemistry

(28:18):
so
I think it's important to talk about ADHD to recognize what's going on
so from my
understanding where the brain science is at right now
is that people with ADHD have less dopamine receptors
that's one of the hallmarks of what causes the conditions
and so as a result
we tend to be restless we tend to be hold in by stimuli

(28:38):
it's that condition that when you're adding altirracene and protein
you are supporting dopamine production in your brain among
well and that's Doctor Plum
you know when he first discovered
coined the term reward deficiency syndrome
which is the term he uses to describe what happens to people

(29:01):
when you don't have enough dopamine
D2 receptors in the brain
yeah which is genetic
yep and it sets you up for yep
and then he discovered that oh
other neurotransmitters impact the firing of dopamine
in the nuclear succumbence
the pleasure center of the brain
as well as other parts of the brain

(29:22):
and so it becomes this very systematic thing
but it started with
discovering that we didn't have enough dopamine receptors
yeah and that taking tyrozine help the brain know for 10 months period
make more dopamine receptors
that's right that's it
that is it so
to me it's high protein

(29:43):
low carb diet healthy fats
cardio exercise if you can do it
that to me I
it's honestly from what I've looked at all
like the stats from all the time I've been doing this work
cardio exercises No. 1
I would say it has the most predictable
quick result that anything
else I've I've seen

(30:04):
so that can buy work I
I think it generates dopamine for one
it also is releasing a lot of other feel good chemicals
you know you're get
you're giving you're relaxing your body BDNF yeah
and so what and you go back to the Hunter Farmer theory
it's that short card
and I tell people you don't need to do 30 minute workouts

(30:26):
do like 10 minute workouts
you can do shorter shorter workouts to get
you need about 10 minutes to get the beneficial results
when I started doing this work
I started to track every time I ran and what was my mood
focus and energy levels I track them every day
and what I was really surprised to find is

(30:47):
it wasn't just the day that I did cardio
it was the day after and I would see the results multiple days after
and I went oh
and so then doing the research
I was thinking oh
that's what's going on
I think what it does is it doesn't just generate dopamine
it has a way of how it affects the brain
your prefrontal lobe that gives you a longer lasting hit of focus

(31:13):
of clarity and said I've just seen it with all people that I work with
like if it's hard to do it
that the challenges like you we were talking about earlier
to keep that consistency is difficult
and so a lot of getting there's
you gotta find your
you gotta hack your way into it and you gotta find simpler ways to do
um your cardio

(31:34):
a lot of times there's a sense of like
oh you gonna do 30 minutes or an hour and so I'm not gonna do it today
but when they think 10 minutes they can go okay
I can do get on you know go outside or I can even just going for walks
it makes a huge difference
it's that staying in the house
staring
or staying at your desk for long periods of time without moving
your brain waves are going to be disrupted as a result of it

(31:57):
and so a lot of it is
those cues of just getting out and moving around
can make a huge difference
because you're in
from a brain wave perspective
your we have more theta wave activity and less beta wave activity
so we want to move ourselves more
we want to get strength in those beta waves and gamma waves
so that we have that focus
so when we're that self reflective all fuzzy

(32:20):
everything flowing flooding together
that's too much theta wave activity
not enough theta wave activity
which is why I think in treatment programs
not all treatment programs in fact
many of them do not engage exercise at all
and I think that's a really bad therapeutic decision

(32:40):
and they're also the ones that have really bad food
and sugar everywhere but yeah yeah
but to bring in exercise during treatment
every day or every other day in a really focused way
helps people's ability to engage in treatment
and in fact
a friend of mine who's um

(33:01):
MD did a study on the the effect
the positive effect of daily exercise on relapse prevention
yeah it's
it just anecdotely if you just talked
I rumored James Taylor the musician
was a heroin addict for years
and he said the only thing that fixed it was hard

(33:22):
daily cardio exercise he says that was the fix
he says once I start doing that
I was able to maintain my sobriety so
and again it's so that hunter
I kind of come back to that metaphor
it's like that we we're meant to move
we're in these bodies to move
we're not meant to sit stationary

(33:42):
that's so interesting yeah
well the other thing that
you know I've noticed doing this for a very long time
is if you look at the brain scans that Doctor Amon has done
yes of um
people with ADHD and then what changes in their brain
once they're on stimulant medication

(34:02):
you notice that the holes of brain functioning
are not just in the prefrontal cortex
yeah yeah
the holes in the brain with people with ADHD
are not just around the executive functioning area
they're in other parts of the brain as well
usually back left yeah
your back left quadrant yes absolutely
and so what we've discovered is that we actually

(34:27):
need to use all the amino acids in order to support people in um
creating a successful life with ADHD
and so my favorite
second to uh
tyrosine and I don't need tyrosine anymore
what I do need every day is I need the fish oil every day

(34:50):
absolutely and
you know there's so many studies that show that people
especially boys with hyperactive
you know ADHD are very deficient in the Omega 3 fatty acids
and once we bring them in
symptoms get so much better
but the other thing when my favorite is the anime

(35:11):
being it yes
calming yes
I love being in because what it does is it start stops the spin
so you know
that experience when your poor little brain is getting way too much
hitting it sad all at once
and you're supposed to do these organizational things

(35:32):
yes I especially felt this
when I was supposed to write a disability report on somebody
and I had yes
and different places yes
and organize it
and I would think about this and my anxiety would
just thinking about sitting down
and writing a disability report on somebody
yes or an insurance report

(35:54):
my anxiety would go so high that I couldn't function
and I would procrastinate until the very last minute
and then I would just that's right happen yeah
surprisingly the focus would show up
cause you were in emergency mode
it's an emergency road and I had all that adrenaline running
and I just made it happen yep

(36:14):
but you know
in the same thing like this is my kitchen
I would walk into my kitchen and it would be where do I start
you know yeah
there's trash on the floor and there's trash on the
on the counters and every single cupboard door is open
and it's like the dirty dishes in the sink and the dirty dishes here

(36:36):
and where do you start and it's like
what do I start here do I start there or do I
and then you spin right
and you spin and then your anxiety go sky high and you panic
that's right no
what we know now out of trauma work and sematic
you know approaches to trauma
is that when you get out of your window of tolerance

(36:57):
into hyper arousal yeah
then move in to the free state
yep that's right
Polly Vagel didn't do anything
that's right thanks exactly
you run away that's it
that's exactly known as procrastination
yes exactly

(37:17):
in the distraction that comes from that
that's when the phone and everything else
that's gonna stimulate some dopamine to
to lower your cortisol levels and to get yourself back down
that's that's the cycle
that's the cycle recognize and repeat when you
you're become aware of it
you can work with it you're like oh
I'm stressed I'm distracting

(37:39):
those are connected and how do I then regulate myself again
that's where Thienin comes in
death I
haven't worked a lot with Thienin
so I want to hear I love you more of your experience yes
one or 200 milligrams of Thienin within 10
15 minutes you'll start breathing again

(37:59):
the to do this stop spinning like a tornado
right you can actually say oh
I can close all the cupboard doors in my kitchen
hmm oh yeah
that'll work
and you know what the connection is with the Indian and cortisol
do you do you have it yes
it lowers it is that okay

(38:21):
yeah so theonian partially blocks cortisol adrenaline
Norris epinephrine and glutamate okay
so it partially it partially calms down all your stress hormones
but it also supports dopamine
Gabba and serotonin interesting

(38:43):
interesting
so it supports cognitive function and supports self esteem yeah
so allows you to then do the doing in an orderly way
because it's calmed down your nervous system
and now allows you to focus
they've even done studies where you combine theonine to with tyrozine

(39:08):
and it improves focus even more
and see this is relative I
I remember testing out theony and I think around 2018
and because I didn't find it like a strong effect on me personally
I was like I don't I
I always I'm always cautious about
recommending things that I have not tested out
or seen work with other clients
even if there's some scientific studies on it

(39:29):
cause sometimes I see that I wanna wanna make sure that it's work
but theoning was one of those things that I think even back then
around 2018 was just starting to be talked about yeah
we're just starting to like from my from my research
and so um
this good I'm gonna come back to the Indian again
I think I I wanna re explore the ending based on that
I wanna hear a bit more about yeah

(39:50):
I I started using it
I think somewhere around 2015
but I use it for the spin panic freeze procrastinate yes
yes right yes
which not everybody has yeah
you know and you don't always get into it
but when you get into it yeah
you wanna be able to regulate yourself

(40:10):
yeah exactly
and because it works within 10 minutes
and it can just bring you down and you can breathe again
yes it's
it's amazing
and you don't get the stimulant part of the green tea as a result
you're getting just that one aspect of it
yeah yeah
you're just getting the the calmer and the dopamine

(40:33):
the clarity support yes
yeah you say all right
I'm taking note of that okay
but then Julia Ross has a wonderful story of she was at a um
working on an Indian reservation giving a conference
and she was having lunch with an older woman

(40:54):
who was the organizer of the conference
and the woman's 10 year old very hyperactive grandson
hmm yes
and they were trying to eat and this kid was bouncing
off the walls and yeah erupting them and just being disruptive nicely
I mean he was a nice kid
but you know

(41:15):
he was excited and he was tanned and he was bouncing off the walls
so Julia gave him 50 mg of a chewable
5 htp
wow interesting
interesting and within 10
five 10 minutes
this ten year old kid
50 mg had calmed down and was able to eat his lunch

(41:37):
yeah then grandma left the room
and he helped himself to the brightly colored
hard candy in a bowl on the table
bounce back up hey
he started dancing yeah
yeah but he didn't like it
so he went to Julia and said
ma'am that that medicine you gave me

(41:57):
could I have some more of it please
yeah yeah
so very politely so she gave him another 50 milligram chewable
yeah he was able to sit in the conference for the rest of the day
and actually impressive
yeah actually pay attention

(42:18):
yeah yeah
yeah
so all parts of the brain
all the neurotransmitter systems are impacted by ADHD
and can be supported
when you really know how to use amino acid therapy
in this nuanced way yes

(42:40):
yes and
and giving it's just again
having all these tools in your toolkit
so you know how to manage your nervous system
that's really at the end of the day
it's like each person then finds the things that really work for them
and they they
becomes the habit
because they found center and they're able to then navigate the world

(43:01):
and it's still gonna be challenging
I think a lot of people promising to just fix everything it's like no
you don't fix everything and you need to know that
you need to know it's gonna be a struggle sometimes
and sometimes that does need to be the communication
especially I think in our modern world
we just think well
we're just gonna fix everything and it doesn't that's not it
that's not that's not good for you as a human being to think that way

(43:23):
you it's better for you to have an awareness of the hazards
it's what they talk about a lot in nature
when they're training kids in nature schools
they said the first thing they teach them is awareness of the hazards
here's the things that can catch you and as a result
they become more alert and more aware of like oh
and so to have that kind of

(43:44):
almost an indigenous perspective on approaching life is helpful
and I think we've lost that a little bit as
as we've gotten more civilized civilized
you know I I I think so and then we all have our kind of you know
our strengths in our not so strengths
you know
I can now remember to close cupboard doors and throw away my trash

(44:08):
yeah and you know
so my kitchen is much more orderly that my office has piles paper
here and piles paper here and and supplement bottles there
and because it's just like there's too much to keep track of yes no
I know where everything is and I know where to find everything yeah

(44:28):
but it seems
you know and then and then the piles kind of slip and slide yes
if you're not nice and organized and then right
so that is still a challenge for me
but I do know how to close cupboard doors
there you go
I love it haha

(44:49):
it is and it's just the modern world you know
it's just a it was we were talking earlier
it's like this is just one way of living
among what many other ways people choose to live in society
and so we we you have to navigate as best you can and pay
it's the paperwork in the admin and all that stuff is the thing
things that get us
but you place a lot of us in front of a group of people or we're

(45:11):
we're has to do something in our strengths
we're gonna knock it knock it out of the park
I work with a lot of people who are in Hollywood and
and actresses and actors and
and it's like when they're on man
there's like no one else in the world with the same wiring
they can they're gonna do things that other people can't
and so we have to see both sides of that the coin and then

(45:33):
then managing life
and that's why I think a lot of people who are in Hollywood
in musicians and things like that
they get addicted so easily because there's
what makes them so powerful is the sensitivity
and as a result of that they
it's hard for them to navigate the rest of life
and that often leads to some really dark places

(45:57):
that's right and there are indeed brain glitches
yeah you know
those are real and so
finding the foods finding the exercise
finding the resources to um
offset them yes
yes is
is powerful you know
the supplements helped tremendously

(46:20):
but not enough yeah
and then I took a course in medical and dental hypnotherapy in 2,001
my add had gotten diagnosed a couple of years earlier
and I was managing it I was managing it
but it was still I still felt it was the bane of my existence

(46:41):
yeah yeah
and it was like in this 12 module
uh course
the 7th module was ADHD and I was just waiting for them on
this is my hand said
can I be your Guinea pig please
yes
and she did she did a trance thing that did absolutely nothing

(47:07):
and I don't know she was working with mandalas and circles
and it didn't do anything
the next week we came back into class and she put me into trance
and could she said
you know what how is your add really impacting you the most
and I said my kitchen is a disaster

(47:29):
it's always a disaster and I would rather not be
and she said okay
well who in your life is a really good housekeeper
I said my sister
she said okay
imagine you and your sister in your kitchen

(47:49):
and I want you to watch your sister clean your kitchen
hmm that's good
yeah so I'm watching her clean the kitchen
she said okay
how's it look I said
it's great she said okay
so go back to your messy kitchen now
and now I want you to step inside your sister
and clean up your kitchen with her

(48:11):
from inside of her
so to watch from the inside
yeah so that maybe five minutes
and then she said great
now I want you to clean your kitchen in your imagination
but I want your sister to now step inside of you
and guide you from the inside

(48:35):
and lo and behold
now I'd watch my sister do it twice in my imagination
hmm Lo and behold
I was able to do it myself with her sitting side
and that was the end of that session
I love it that's great
that was a game changer because over the next month
it kind of generalized out
hmm yeah

(48:55):
almost everything
except for my ability to watch the speed limit while driving
haha
yes okay
so a year later
they had instated a speed trap between my house and my office
and it got me every time

(49:16):
now you think that I would learn this and like take a different route
yeah of course not yeah
um so I land in front of the judge and the judge says
you're about to lose your driver's license
what are you gonna do and I said well
I have an appointment with the hypno therapist tomorrow yeah
yeah that's it

(49:36):
that was good the judge well
I hope it works
so I made an appointment with the same with my teacher and I said look
everything's great except for that yeah
so she in trance
we installed a little conductor with the conductor uniform

(49:57):
and the conductor had
and he was his entire purpose in life was to watch the speedometer
hmm interesting
interesting and you have the other shoulder if you know
we exceeded the speed limit
I think I've that was in 2 thousand and two maybe 2,003

(50:24):
I've maybe had one speeding ticket since then
that's great I love it
I love it and that's it's such a great story about how uh
as you're talking I was thinking about how a lot of people uh
were wired this way we struggle with people pleasing
that's like a really common thing because we're
our self esteem slow and we're always adapting to situations

(50:47):
and I always tell people think about someone you know
has really strong boundaries
but you you love them and you care about them
and they're graceful in how they do it and see if you can embody that
and that it's it's powerful when you can like you said
take it in
there's other human beings around you to mirror these different things
that you can start practicing

(51:08):
and may not feel like it's home turf all the time
but uh
I know hypno in fact
one of the people that was
one of our first workshop participants went on to do uh
hypnotherapy with ADHD and I know that there's it's
it's a powerful thing to give your psyche something to work with
so that it is it's so foreign to you to do this thing

(51:31):
but if it's something that's not external or you don't
a lot of times will have a judgment about something
that the judgment is keeping us from integrating it
and when we can just release the judgment and take it in
like you said with your sister
probably you were growing up
you're like always sisters just particular and
and then to be able to embrace it take it in

(51:53):
you have a totally my subconscious
had watched my sister clean the kitchen enough times
that it knew how to do it yeah
yeah right
that's it just hadn't translated into me being able to do it
that's it I love it
that's beautiful yeah yeah
so anything else you want to add

(52:16):
I would say that you know
the one thing we didn't talk about is just sort of navigating emotions
and I would always point people to the work of Doctor Marshall
Rosenberg a lot of the work I do is based on needs based awareness
which comes out of the work of nonviolent communication
and it that again
one of the great game changers of my life of learning it
and then integrating that into my coaching practice

(52:38):
and understanding that that needs uh
as we we cover it in non violent communications are
it's like the atomic nature of our consciousness
our brain is designed to meet needs
not only our brains but all million brains
basically all brains are focused on meeting needs
and when you can name things like I have a need for respect and this

(53:00):
I was triggered because this person said this thing
you come back to a space of sadderness because
you know that's what I need in that situation
versus that constant spin of like
oh that person said this to me or I'm spinning like this
or I'm judging myself for this
when you come back to my need
I have a need for I'm spinning on this right now
and I really have a need for self esteem

(53:20):
ah in this situation I felt like I spoke to this person
I felt terrible and as a result my need for self esteem wasn't met
to name those finite number of needs and to give that
to memorize them and learn to work with them
you're working with the core part of your psyche
and to me that was a another game changer that I share a lot with

(53:44):
with our work
is just recognizing that needs based awareness is your friend
and it's how you already work anyway
it's already happening so to become aware of it
you can then more easily navigate yourself out of your mental spins
or when you're interacting with your spouse or with a co worker
you have the tool kit that's been well trodden

(54:06):
there's a road that's been worked through
thousands of people that have already worked on this
that can help you you so you're not starting from zero
it's not a your emotions are no longer a mystery
and so the one catchphrase that I like from Marshall was
Dr Marshall Rosenberg he said that needs are like

(54:27):
our feelings are like the lights on the dashboard
to tell you whether a need is met or unmet
and so any feeling you have is contacted to some either met need
where you're feeling great
and you're feeling inspired
cause something went really well
there were needs that were met
that's why you're experiencing it
that's how our psyche works

(54:48):
or if something went really terrible
there were needs that were not met
and when you have that toolkit
you can then more easily navigate the
the challenges of your emotional life
and so I just wanna add that to the mix that I think that's a really
really good addition
because I use that not just in relationship with other people

(55:10):
but also in relationship to yourself
and so what I teach my clients both
you know people with just mental health issues or just people with um
addiction issues is at least 5 times a day
and maybe you have to cue it with either meals
or with going to the toilet to remember

(55:33):
but at least 5 times a day stop
take a breath
notice what you're feeling in your body and in your notions
do a quick body scan so what this does
the quick body scan immediately grounds you and brings you back home
right out of your head into your body

(55:54):
yeah it's right from spinning and being scattered and being out there
it comes back you're moving into your body
now what are you feeling I'm having these emotions
what does these emotions tell you about
what you are wanting and needing right
yes that's it
wanting and needing okay

(56:15):
yeah now
how are you going to appropriately ask for
or get what you were wanting and needing
right now yep
and it is so powerful
and I remember when I started doing this decades ago
it over time I discovered that it was one of
the most powerful relaxation techniques in the world

(56:38):
yeah you know
it seems simple and so whatever
but it's a powerful relaxation tool
yeah and when you have like cigarettes or if you're
you know smoking PHC or vaping it every hour on the hour right yeah
or you're just unconsciously smoking yeah

(57:00):
every time you catch yourself reaching for
whatever you're reaching for
to just stop
take a breath yeah
do a quick body scan you know
from your feet up to your head
what am I feeling what am I noticing
oh what am I wanting

(57:20):
yeah I'm thirsty
yes I'm upset
I'm lonely what am I needing
oh I need to go to the bathroom
I need to talk to somebody
I need to go for a run that's it
I don't think
and sometimes it takes a while for people to even figure that's right
and some people don't even like it's not

(57:42):
they're not even to the point where they can even know
that's part of his like a human learning
what do you even need I
I find that I'm so surprised to see that like oh
I I don't even know
I'll ask people in workshops like
what are you needing
and I don't I don't know
and then that becomes the journey of like
what is it that you need oh
I'm like you said recognize I'm thirsty or I'm recognizing that yeah

(58:05):
I've been very I feel very isolated
and then underneath that is a lot of feeling
and there's a lot of sometimes grief that needs to be processed as
you know it's like all these things
but to be able to have your
to the tool kit like that
where you have some simple thing you can keep coming back to and say
like whatever is going on
I'm gonna let the trigger bring me back to center again

(58:26):
instead of fighting it or trying to force yourself into some process
you're letting the thing that's pulling you in
it's getting you
it's taking you down every time to bring you back to center again
well when I was in my 20s
I think I started therapy when I was 25 and I had a lot of trauma um

(58:48):
both developmental trauma as well as you know
acute trauma and I realized that I didn't know
I knew I had enormous amount of pain inside of me
but it felt like this mishmash of like
you know
yarn where all these different colors

(59:10):
yarn were all tangled up together
and all I knew was that it just was painful yeah
and so I had to ask myself I had to learn what am I feeling right now
I don't know what I'm feeling well
are you feeling angry are you feeling sad
are you feeling tired are you feeling embarrassed
are you feeling lonely right

(59:32):
and it would be no I'm not angry no
I'm not this no I'm not that lonely oh
I'm feeling lonely got it okay
it's nice for connection vibrating and neon you know
that's it that's your body no
cause it's it's biological almost
it's not even your body will tell you

(59:52):
when you hit a need it'll
you'll start to relax your body will go
that's it that's what I need
and I tell people that needs are not
they're not like you memorizing something
it's about you understanding what your neurology needs
your nervous system these needs are not conceptual
yeah and I had to do that
that exercise several times a day for a couple of years

(01:00:15):
until I begin to be able to automatically put a name to a feeling
there it is and
and just like now I know when I'm angry
I know when I'm lonely I know when I'm hurt right
I don't have to go through a process
that's right you still feel it
but then I'm feeling it but now I know exactly immediately what it is
and like that's as long

(01:00:36):
as long as I stop I still have
we all have to right stop
go in breathe and say okay yeah
what am I feeling yeah
when I'm feeling yeah
but initially it was I had to go through the so checklist in my head
yes that's it
I'm glad we touched on this
yeah that's it

(01:00:57):
cause navigating emotions is such a
keep it in terms of recovery
it's a big deal having these tools
tools in your toolkit it's
it takes time unless you said it takes time
which sometimes people don't wanna hear that
but it does but it can change rapidly
once you have the right kind of support the tools that you need
and that your self esteem starts to improve

(01:01:19):
when you have those things that
you know in your life build your self esteem
that's when you can start making
because then you can see oh it's
you're not just broken you have all these other gifts and you're
you've in everyone ever I've never worked with anyone where I felt
I've actually
I always tell people I never met anyone who has a disorder
I've never met one person that I've coached that I would say
all that person they've got a disorder

(01:01:41):
I never it never crosses my mind
I just think wow
I sometimes I think wow
this person has got a lot that they have to work with
and I have a great deal of respect for them as a human
that they have to take on this much
but I never think of people just having a disorder
it's so it it's
to throw away it doesn't give you enough

(01:02:01):
it's it's low resolution
higher resolution is it's much more messy
but when people start to learn their nervous system and they know
this is how I'm wired
and I might be very different than everyone around me
but I am starting to
to take to task what this nervous system needs and take care of it

(01:02:21):
that's when life starts to really change
that's when things just really open
and then there's that moment where things just
really expand and flower for people
and I see it a lot in coaching where it's just like overnight
and I will just think wow
that person just overnight changed
but it wasn't incremental progress that hit that one point of like
critical mass where they really had that

(01:02:42):
that grand so epiphanies happen
and there are moments where things can really change in a
in a quick an incident that's right that's right yeah
but the foundational work has been done well
this has been lovely Michael
can you yeah
what is this we're gonna be talking about at the conference
yes well much of this so we'll be talking about how uh

(01:03:03):
what would a nutrition and a support system uh
look like for ADHD recovery
what does that look like
what are the different aspects of it from nutrition
exercise time management
what are some strategies how do we approach
how we look at ourselves how do we lean on our strengths
we're gonna go through uh

(01:03:23):
a lot of what I talk about in the book
and I'm gonna take
from a lot of the coaching that I do in a regular basis
to still that down into this
these are the most important things that I've found
working with people who are in recovery
and people who are just ADHD
who struggle with whatever that addiction is
cause almost
I would say 90% of the people in the world are addicted to something
whether it's our smartphone or whatever

(01:03:44):
so that giving them some tools that they can use right away
that will support them and also with
you know therapists and people who are working with people with ADHD
some of the insights that I found from just working in this field
since 2007
I'm looking forward to it
thank you so much thank you

(01:04:04):
wonderful talking to you wonderful talking to you
now if people wanna reach you
how do they do that and this will be in the in the notes as well
yeah so you can go to drummer and the Great Mountain dot com
that's the name of my book and that's also the name of our podcast
and if they get onto Apple Podcast or whatever
Spotify or however they're getting a podcast

(01:04:26):
if you type in adult ADHD
often we show up towards the top
you'll see a podcast called Adult ADHD
Tips and support
is actually the name that shows up when they do the podcast search
and that we've got hundreds of hours at this point of podcast
so they can check that out
and go through that in sort of an audio companion to the book

(01:04:46):
the German The Great Mountain
which they can find on Amazon or wherever they get books
lovely thank you so much
wonderful speaking with you
thank you for tuning in to power up recovery with nutrition
I'm Christina Vesiloc your host
and I hope today's episode has inspired
and equipped you with new insights and tools to support your recovery

(01:05:10):
journey or practice
if you enjoyed this episode
please subscribe leave a review
and share it with others
who could benefit from the knowledge shared here
stay connected with us for more episodes filled with practical advice
expert wisdom and inspiring recovery stories

(01:05:30):
remember
nutrition is a powerful tool in mental health and relapse prevention
power up your recovery today
I'm Christina Vesiloc and I'll see you next time

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