April 2, 2024 • 54 mins
In this episode of the Queer Divorce Club podcast featuring Ashmeeta Madhav, resilience and grief support advocate, and founder of Growth StoryHub. Ashmeeta shares her journey of navigating divorce at a young age, remarriage, and the profound loss of her second husband to a terminal illness, all while raising young children. Through her own experience, Ashmeeta recognized the need for support in processing grief, especially in the context of divorce, where it often goes unaddressed. She offers insights into the multifaceted emotions of grief, strategies for self-compassion, and navigating the process of rebuilding amidst loss. Ashmeeta empowers listeners to honor their intuition, set boundaries, and extend themselves the compassion they deserve during times of grief.
Ashmeeta Madhav
Ashmeeta Madhav, resilience/grief support advocate and the founder of Growth StoryHub, empowers individuals who have experienced sudden or terminal loss and feel stuck, overwhelmed, and vulnerable. Through personal experiences with miscarriage, rejection, and death, she discovered ways to pick herself up and live again. Her latest book, "What's Your Story, # Way to create a reality with your thinking," shares her realizations, tips, tools, and techniques. Her commitment to education showcases her dedication to making a positive impact on the world.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey, hey, Queer Divorce Club.
(00:01):
Welcome back.
This is Tera.
And today I'm excited to bringyou a new episode of the podcast
featuring Ashmeeta Madhav.
Ashmeeta is a resilience and griefsupport advocate and founder of Growth
Story Hub, a group that providesaccess to support and resources when
dealing with trauma, loss, and grief.
Ashmeeta was divorcedyoung and then remarried.
(00:23):
After losing her second husband froma terminal illness with young kids
in tow, Ashmeeta set out on a journeyto heal and feel through her grief.
After her own journey, she realized thatmore people needed support with grief,
no matter how they were experiencing it.
Grief can come in many forms, andhuge life changes and losses through
divorce is one area where griefcan be prevalent with very little
(00:45):
support for those who experience it.
Ashmeeta walked me through thevarious emotions we can have in grief.
How to support yourself through grief,and how to rebuild while grieving.
Ashmeeta has wonderful advice onhow to set boundaries for yourself,
listen to your inner knowing, andsupport yourself with compassion and
understanding while you're grieving.
There is no right way to grieve, butone thing Ashmeeta knows for sure
(01:08):
is that you have to believe your ownintuition and give yourself the utmost
compassion during the hardest times.
She says that compassion for yourselfreally starts and ends with you.
I'm looking forward to sharing ourtalk with you, so let's get started.
(01:41):
Hi, Ashmeeta!
Welcome to Queer Divorce Club!
Hi, how are you?
Thank you very much.
I'm so happy to have you here.
Most of our topics have been focused onspecifically on divorce or being queer.
But something that's a huge, profoundpiece of divorce that I didn't
realize before I got divorced isthe idea that, that you have to go
(02:04):
through a grief process followingthat following the relationship.
And it's something that a lot ofpeople in the Queer Divorce Club
have brought up, friends who'vegotten divorced, and they don't
understand the heaviness of that grief.
Whether they choose divorce or not,it becomes a really big struggle
or a big shift in how they livetheir life or connect with others.
(02:25):
And so I really think it'sreally important to talk about.
So I'm very thankful thatyou're here today with us.
I appreciate it.
Yes.
Thank you very much.
To get us started, can you giveus an idea of what you do to what
work you do around with grief?
Yes.
So I am the founder of anorganization called Growth Story Hub.
(02:46):
We provide a safe place supportiveplace for individuals to kind of
navigate the complexities of grief.
We have things like discussiongroups blogs that I write and also
an initiative that's it's actuallya challenge that we have out called
the Grieve and Grow Challenge.
So all of the information is onmy website about that challenge.
(03:09):
And the group basically is more justto help people who are dealing with
grief to come to a place where theycould probably find some resources,
some support and that kind of stuff.
So that's why way of giving backafter all of the various different
losses that I've experienced and thegrief that was associated with it.
(03:34):
What brought you to focusing ongrief and your interest in grief?
Well, I I think my last major experiencethat I had with loss was the, when my
husband passed away four years back afterstruggling with pancreatic cancer and
just the grief of watching that disease,that illness, that cancer, what it did to
(04:00):
his body and what it did to our family.
That grief was happening realisticallyat the same time while we were dealing
with this whole cancer situation.
And then when, after he passed allof the logistics and the reality that
knocked us all we have three kids.
So each one of us in our own way, grievingand trying to work through this thing
(04:24):
that happened to us and shook our world.
So that's kind of like what broughtme into the whole grief thing.
Cause I was, you know, watching my kids,hearing of a lot of other people who
are going through grief and just knowingwhat a lonely, stuck place it can be.
I wanted to just put out my, whatI've gained from my experience and the
(04:49):
things that I'm doing to help myself.
You never know if you could helpsomeone else just by sharing.
That's basically how it started.
Sure, absolutely.
And it sounds like you very muchunderstand the idea that grief doesn't,
you don't just get to stop your life togrieve, you have to do it at the same
time sometimes as doing other things,as taking care of kids, as moving
(05:12):
through all these other parts of life.
And that's a huge, a huge part of why thegrief process can be so difficult, right?
We can't just sit with it.
At any given moment, we have so manyother life factors and so many other
things that get in the way of that.
Exactly.
Yes, that is 100 percent true.
When my mom had passed away back in2008 I was still a new mom myself,
(05:35):
still had two little, both my older kidswere still young, studying elementary
school by myself in a new country.
All the dynamics that go withthat, just learning to live in a
new country and things like that.
But then at the same time dealing withthe grief I found myself living a double
life because grief is just that kind of athing that once you've experienced it, you
(05:57):
could actually be in a space to supportor even just understand and empathize.
not fix.
There's nothing to fix here.
Just be able to understand andempathize with another human being.
But until, not until you experience thatlevel of grief in you is my opinion.
It's my opinion.
(06:18):
Yeah.
Well, it sounds like you have a lotof experience to put behind that.
I hear you saying like, you can't fix it.
You can't just flip a switch on it.
You have to, you know, whycan't you just fix grief?
Like what is, what is it?
It is, it is a realitythat one is put into.
based on an experience.
(06:38):
And I mean, you know, deathisn't, you don't only experience
grief because of death.
You can experience griefwhen you have a miscarriage.
You can experience a certain level, youknow, a degree of grief when like with
divorce, rejection, social alienation,you know, all of that kind of stuff.
As human beings, we want tofeel like we add value or we
(07:01):
welcome or we belong somewhere.
And with grief, what happens is Youfind yourself in a lonely place and
because you find yourself in thislonely place with all of these emotions
that are not so easily accepted outin society, maybe for various reasons.
(07:21):
Maybe people don't knowhow to react to you.
Maybe it's just too much.
So they, you know, And the messages thaton the receiving side, the person was
actually grieving, the messages thatyou subtly get are like, okay, this
person doesn't care about me or, youknow, all of those negative messages.
And I found myself in that place as well.
(07:44):
And as time has gone, I'vejust realized that this is a
journey and it is my journey.
So I have got to be kind to myselfwith whatever comes up with for me.
And this is different for each humanbeing based on the level of loss and
(08:05):
the intensity and that kind of stuff.
It definitely is a unique journeythat whatever comes up for me,
I need, I'm going to embrace it.
It's going to be hard, but I'mgoing to embrace it and work with
it and take it one step at a time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(08:25):
I'm looking forward to talkwith you more about that.
And I'm interested as you'retalking about that loneliness.
I think that's something that a lot ofpeople who are going through divorce
are feeling is that intense loneliness.
Do you think there's something uniquespecifically about the grief in divorce
and why grief is so profound in divorce?
Why do you think that is?
(08:45):
It's, it's kind of like this,you, you get married or you commit
yourself to another human being.
And with that comes this, all these hopesand dreams and expectations and that
relationship that, because at the end ofthe day, it's these feelings are something
that I am feeling towards the next person.
(09:06):
And then I commit to this relationship.
And with that comes this beautiful.
thing that two people create, right?
And then when that suddenly just.
goes away.
It's almost like what I felt.
I mean, I felt it before when I had Iwas married before and I had that happen
(09:30):
to me where I was just totally rejected.
And so yeah, kind of a divorce too.
I felt really like I felt vulnerable.
I felt used.
I felt let down.
All of those emotions came up forme and I had nowhere to send them
because somebody did this to me.
(09:51):
I didn't do this.
I didn't decide this, right?
So for instance, like when my husband,okay, my husband passed away, we
had this beautiful marriage that weworked at and, you know, built for
23 years and suddenly he's gone.
Who am I?
Is what I struggled with a lot.
So that feeling of loneliness andfeeling of that connection and that
(10:15):
emotional investment that we hadboth put into that relationship.
It's like, okay.
it's gone.
What was, what was it worth?
What, you know, it really makes youfeel very alone and disillusioned.
Kind of just sitting with thatand practicing a lot of self love.
Yeah.
Is what has helped.
(10:36):
Yeah.
Can you explain a little bit in that,like, I heard you talk about lots
of different emotions and of coursewe see as we go through divorce
or any type of big life change, wesee all these different emotions.
How is grief one of the emotions?
Is grief a process?
What is grief specifically in that?
Well, grief is basically the, my opinionof the whole, and my understanding
(10:58):
of what I feel like it is, it isbasically a symptom or like sort of
a reaction, my, my mind and my bodyand my whole being reacting to an
experience that has changed my life.
So if I look at it that way, thenlike with any illness, when you have
(11:23):
symptoms, you deal with the symptoms.
We can't, I mean, the rootcause is my husband is dead.
I have to deal with, that is the reality.
It's nothing that I'm going to be able to,and even in the case of a divorce, right?
It's when people decide they want to go,one person decides to go a separate way.
(11:44):
The other person feels like,okay, I really don't want this.
I think we can still work at it orwhatever it is in that, in that scenario.
One person is going to be left with allof this baggage that, you know, there's
still very been that glimmer of hope.
And yeah, yeah, I think even likeyou are answering the question.
(12:08):
I think it sounds like.
You're saying that grief is kind ofthe, the overarching shift that you're
making and all the stuff that goesunderneath that and everything that
gets carried along with that, theloss and the hope and all of that.
And I also heard you say that, you know,there's this grief if somebody chose
to divorce and you didn't have the Ifyou were the one that didn't choose
(12:29):
it, but are going through the divorce.
But I think there's also this grief on theother side, where if you're the one that
chose it, you're grieving what you hopedyou could have had in that relationship.
A lot of times, right, you'regrieving what you hoped or what you
thought your life was going to be.
And so there's this huge loss.
There's this huge loss in what youthought it was going to be, you know,
(12:51):
and that's similar to like, if somebodyhas, has passed away or if somebody is
sick or if you lose a dog, you know,that grief, it's like, again, your
life is changing, you're shifting.
And whether you choose the divorce ornot, you're, You're grieving what it
could have been, what you wanted it tobe, what you thought it was going to be.
(13:11):
Can you explain, I think everybody'sheard of the stages of grief.
If you haven't, Google stagesof grief and you can find that
there's five, it's everywhere.
I feel like my entire life peoplehave been like, you're just in denial.
You're just in the angerpart, you know, all of that.
So could you give us just a quick, like,glimpse of what are the five stages
of grief and how do you know which oneyou're in and why is it important to know?
(13:33):
Okay.
So from, you know, the five stagesof grief, I guess, as you said,
we can Google it, and we'll see.
It is, you know, denial, anger,bargaining, depression, and
then acceptance, finally.
I really think that you know, it'sreally a cool way of having some sort of
framework towards understanding all ofthese complex emotions that we go through
(13:55):
when we have challenging situations, like.
loss.
And, you know, they kind of validateour feelings and make us just
give us a framework to work with.
Recognizing that these challengescan, you know, by self reflection and
seeking support it can really help.
And in each of these different stages, itis beneficial to sort of like acknowledge.
(14:19):
So denial, you know, it's beneficialwhen you find that, you know, I
can't come to grips with this.
thing that has happened, justacknowledging and embracing reality
is where the whole sort of denial,you can counter that by accepting.
(14:44):
And then anger is also comesfrom a place of I'm disappointed.
I'm maybe even afraid to some point.
Like if you really peel back the onion,the core, you know and then basically
just trying to bargaining, depression,all of those things, all of those
(15:09):
you know, different parts of grief.
I don't think they happenin a specific order.
I noticed.
When I was grieving when my mom passedaway my very first experience with
death because we had spoken about thesekinds of things in our family as I
was a young kid and things like that.
I mean, I knew it was going to happen oneday, but of course, when it did happen,
(15:32):
I still did go through these feelings.
I didn't find myself bargaining so much.
I didn't find myself having toomuch of a, like a depression,
but I did have denial and anger.
And then at some point later downthe line, when I started just getting
(15:53):
more familiar with death and doingmore research and spiritual growth
and all that kind of stuff came toa point of acceptance where, you
know, I'm, yes, we all say is lifeand death part of the circle of life.
We know that, but when we are exposed tothat death, when somebody, when that loss
(16:15):
happens, we're just thrown off our feet.
It's like the ground has been pulled outfrom under us and we've totally lost.
So this is a nice framework.
It's a really nice framework touse, but it doesn't go in that
order and it doesn't, you don'thave to necessarily feel all of it.
That's my experience.
Yeah, so it's not a ladder.
You're just walking up asyou go through the process.
(16:38):
Dang.
It would be really nice if it was, right?
You could just move from one tothe other, push it along real fast.
See if you can get through.
You can't just do that.
No, but you know, think of,think of the other side of it.
Like, you know, not, not, I mean if Ionly go through a few of those things
(16:58):
and not everything, but I think whatneeds With grief, I think everybody
actually goes through and I'm generalizinghere, but once you experience a
level of loss, you automaticallystart becoming aware of yourself and
your feelings and what comes withdifferent things that come up for you.
(17:22):
I don't know.
I'm still exploring that idea in mymind, but I have noticed that I have
become so much more aware of me.
And how I react in different situationsand how this grief has changed me so much.
Yeah, so if you start, you know, reactingwith it or connecting with the grief
inside you, you can become a littlebit more aware of your own feelings
and how you're connecting to otherthings and, and that sort of stuff.
(17:44):
Yeah.
Yes.
And how you're showing up.
for yourself and for the peoplearound you, even though you still
have this grief inside of you.
Right, right.
So it's a practice of, of listeningto your body, listening to what's
happening, the same as every other emotionwe're feeling, but it's just intense.
(18:05):
It's just, yeah, and that's why I feelthat, you know, solitude and being
alone, it's actually not a bad thing.
You know, we say we're alone,but are we really alone?
Even when you're physicallyalone, you're still with someone.
You're with yourself.
So you might be physicallyalone, but you're never going
to be alone, alone, ever.
(18:26):
Yeah.
How do you convince yourself that you'renot alone when you're just by yourself?
Is that a thing?
Is that a possible?
No one's ever asked me that question.
And I haven't really given that toomuch a thought, but I enjoy my solitude.
I enjoy my lonely time, my time alone.
(18:48):
There was a time where I was actually,I would feel like, Oh, I'm alone.
There's nobody with me.
Who do I rely on if Ineed to get this done?
Or if I, and if I think about it, it's allthe logistics that I'm trying to find you.
help or whatever it is toget an action done, right?
Which is something that is doable.
(19:08):
And, you know, just by reaching outto people, you'll find someone who
can help you, but being alone withmyself, how do I convince myself
that it's okay to be alone by myselfand to be happy with being alone?
It's just the more you are withyourself alone and you do all of that
introspecting, journaling in whicheverform that you can, retrospect, you know,
(19:30):
just Going within and talking to yourself.
A lot of the self talk, it justautomatically starts feeling comfortable.
And once you start feeling comfortablewith yourself, being just you and
yourself, I mean, when you go out ona walk, if you don't necessarily have
company, if you go out on a hike oryou go out for a walk in nature a lot
(19:52):
of times people are doing it aloneor they'll have their headphones on
and they'll be listening to somethingor whatever it is, but sometimes
not even listening to anything andjust authentically being alone.
It's, it's not scary at all, really.
It sounds scary, but it really isn't.
It's, it's amazing what comes upand then just going with that.
(20:15):
Yeah, so to take the leap of beingby yourselves and feeling the safety
of the, of being by yourself andtalking, it takes time, right?
Like you were saying, thejournaling, the walking, the
practice, yeah, just like anything.
Yes, it does take time, but I really,really do feel one thing I've learned
through this whole journey, especiallyafter the death of my husband in this
last four years, which has really changedme a lot and helped me in so many ways
(20:38):
because I've had to rediscover myself is.
investing in myself, parenting myself,setting boundaries, being intentional
about where I go, what I do, how muchtime I spend, wherever it is that I spend.
I see that as me investing inmyself and getting to know myself.
(21:00):
We do that.
We do that when we getinto a relationship, right?
With another person, we, we give our best.
We go all out when we parent, whenwe are nurturing our children,
our infants, our young children.
It's just a natural thing that we do forthem because we want the best for them.
Yeah.
So how about when you're in that situationwhere you're struggling and you're
(21:21):
alone and you know the world out thereis not able to be there for you the
way you need them to be there for you.
How about starting with yourself and doingit for yourself and then slowly teaching
the people around you or letting themknow what you need and don't need and
that's where the boundary work comes in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I think.
(21:42):
Yeah.
It sounds like you're sopeaceful in that space.
Like it feels so comforting and I knowI've been on that practice too of like
trying to parent myself and connectwith myself and learning self compassion
and all those things that it takes.
And whenever it does work, it doesfeel so good, but it is so scary.
You're right.
It's so interesting how we cansupport everybody else and nurture
our kids and our parents and ourfriends and all of these things, but
(22:04):
it's so hard to do for ourselves.
So frustrating.
So frustrating.
It's frustrating.
You are so right.
I struggled with that for a while, andI still do sometimes, you know because
I'm trying to show up for everyoneelse and try to be there for the kids
and trying to fill shoes that I don'tknow where I necessarily need to be
(22:25):
filling shoes, those shoes, you know.
So it adds a lot of stress.
Into my life and I, okay, you know,I think I need to priorit, you
know, put things into perspective.
Be who I am.
I want to know who am Iand what am I capable of.
(22:46):
So that's where, that's why spendingthat time and with yourself helps you
to get understand what are my values?
What am I here for?
What do I think I'm here for?
Lemme discover.
I really see this as Icome to see this as this.
journey that is just so rewarding inso many ways, even though it has so
(23:08):
many challenges, but It's like, youknow, watching a lot of the rings
and you see how things evolve andpeople change and characters change.
And especially that, you know,the way that ring can, if you
allow it to, it can take over.
So that's where that whole embracingand empowering yourself comes in.
(23:32):
So it's about you and something thatI use to help myself, keep myself
on perspective, in perspective andon track to keep in my lane kind of
thing is I remind myself continuallythat it all starts and ends with me.
It all starts and ends with meand how I have choices then.
(23:53):
So how am I going to try to do that?
It all starts and ends with me.
How many times a day did you haveto say that to yourself at first?
I had a lot of self, you know, I foundthese few little things that I say
to myself continuously and sometimesI'd be saying it to myself almost,
(24:17):
initially I would be saying it tomyself every day, almost every hour.
It was some juice.
It just depends on what would come upfor me and how uncomfortable or anxious
I was feeling in any situation or placethat I was in or whatever was going on
around me at that very given moment.
Things like just saying tomyself you're safe, all is well.
(24:38):
A lot of times when we're anxiousit's that mind, especially when it's,
you know, the experience is reallytraumatic, your mind automatically
goes into that fight or flight mode.
Where, and your nervoussystem is all fired up.
So, when I read that somewhere,I thought, you know, I need to
calm this nervous system down.
(24:59):
How do I do that?
And I started experimentingwith various different things.
One thing that works for meis just tapping my heart and
reminding my, repeatedly saying tomyself, all is well, you're safe.
So that self talk again, youknow sometimes I can't be sitting
in public and tapping my heart,somebody will think I'm crazy.
(25:21):
So I'm sitting there andrepeating it in my mind.
You know, maybe I'll close my eyes.
All is fine.
Incorporate some deep breathing with that.
And then, yes, remind myself continually.
Yeah, it's really reassuring that you werelike, it's a lot and sometimes it's like
every few minutes and sometimes it's less.
And I think that I know I personallycan get into this space where it's
(25:43):
like, I feel like I'm having to doit too many times during the day.
And if I haven't, if I'm doing it toomany times and I'm giving myself a
hard time for it, and then I'm like,this is a process, you know, it's this
whole cycle of like, just, it's okay,you're okay, it's natural, but it's
really difficult to get to that spot.
You know, you said something veryinteresting there and that you beat up on
(26:04):
yourself about not being able to do it.
And that in itself is usbeing so hard on ourselves.
Think about this.
When a child is learningto ride a bicycle, right?
We are so supportive and theywill fall and they want to give
up and they want to do all of thatstuff because it becomes hard.
(26:25):
It's like, I can't dothis, all of that, right?
Us as parents, or as a person who'sthat motivational, you know, we motivate
them, we inspire them, we support them.
We, you got this, keep going,you can do this, right?
Why is it that we, when it comes toourselves, Where, oh, you know, for my,
(26:46):
in my case, I was like, so diligent withmy meditation practice for a long time.
And then suddenly somethinghappened, which shifted all of that.
And I wasn't able to do it at the time,and I wasn't able to keep that going.
And with, as time went on,I slowly started losing it.
And I'm mad with myself nowbecause I'm not able to do that.
And I know that benefits meso much and I really enjoy it.
(27:10):
And I've realized, you know what?
I need to be realistic.
Things change.
Things are constantly evolving.
That's the nature of changeand the dynamics of change.
So, how about I just give myselfa little bit of empathy here.
I'm not, you know, trying, I'm not making,I know I'm not making excuses for myself.
(27:33):
Reality has changed a little.
Dynamics have changed.
But I know I want to do this.
I'm going to take baby stepsand start doing it again.
I'm Yeah.
You deserve just as much support andmotivation as that kid on the bike.
Yes.
It's really true.
It's really true.
So let's not put ourselves downwhen we feel like I know I need to
be doing this but I'm not doing it.
(27:54):
just the fact that you're awarethat there's something that
you're doing for yourself.
And maybe you might need to doa lot of it at one time because
that's what you need then.
Later down the line, you may notneed to do this so much of it.
You may need to still doit, but not so much of it.
And we don't need to beatup on ourselves about it.
Yeah.
Ooh.
That's so and so lovely.
(28:15):
It's lovely to reach that spaceheading in the right direction.
I'd like to talk a littlebit, even this is so good.
Just even that part I feel likeis, you know, a reminder of common
humanity that all of us go throughthe same types of processes when
we're in this immense grief space.
Like we give ourself shame, wegive ourself a hard time, we need
extra support and all of that.
(28:36):
It's absolutely okay.
And that's such a good reminder.
And I think one of the things withdivorce that, and I think with any
type of grief, but specifically withdivorce, your life is completely
changing after that divorce, right?
Like maybe you were married for 20years, maybe you're only married
for two years, no matter what, youwere building this specific life
and now it's completely changing.
(28:58):
So you have to completely reframehow you're looking at what you want.
You have to take control of what you want.
You have to be in this spacewhere you have freaking no
clue what you want, right?
Like there's all of these things thatare on the other side of like completely
shifting your life and it's really couldbe traumatic, you know, small T or big T
depending on what you're going through.
(29:19):
How was it possible todo that at the same time?
Like what things do you need to do toboth grieve and rebuild at the same time?
The one important thing is,you know, honoring the past.
but also at the same time.
So you're doing this like simultaneouslyhonoring the past, whenever
(29:42):
things about the past come up, butcreating a new reality for yourself.
And the way to kind of do that isto, like we were talking earlier,
prioritizing self care, kindnesstowards yourself allowing yourself to
feel, to give the, you know, givingyourself the permission to experience
(30:02):
those range emotions that come up.
When they come up, not topush them down or subdue them.
So as those emotions come up to kindabe with them and understand them, it
is actually a very important part ofthe grieving process, acknowledging
them and just giving yourself thatpermission to experience that emotion.
(30:28):
Sometimes you don't evenunderstand the emotion.
I need to cry right now.
And I remember that after my husbandpassed away and when some of the, you
know, the logistics of what happensafter a person passes away, all of that
stuff, especially when I find myselfalone, it's just like, I'm just crying.
And I'm like, why am I crying?
Nothing happened.
Nothing physically happened to me.
(30:48):
But this emotion is so intense.
It's like the soda pop bottle,you know, when you shake it and
that well, it needs to come out.
You can't keep it in and actuallyletting it out is so healthy.
Yes, let's be responsible aboutwhere we do it, how we do it
all of that kind of stuff.
But being able to do, to letthat out is really healing.
(31:12):
It's your body's way of saying,your body's helping you.
It seems weird, but it really,our bodies are helping us.
They protect us.
They help us.
So allowing yourself to feel, seekingsupport, there may you know, there's,
there's lots of support groups andall of that kind of stuff out there.
Specifically in the sense of griefafter the loss, like death, there's
(31:34):
things like some funeral homes havesocial workers you know, They, for
me, that was almost a life changer.
That was so precious.
I really appreciated that.
My husband was in hospice, so we had theservice of hospice after he passed away.
Hospice has a beautiful group thatthey, a group setting where they offer
(31:57):
to, you know, surviving People whosurvive, what are the words there?
But yeah, they had thisgrief support group.
And then there's anotherorganization called grief share.
Which is like a six to eightweek program mostly run by
volunteers and things like that.
But a safe place that you couldgo to you working through a
(32:20):
workbook and understanding things.
So there's a lot of logic putbehind it, but then your emotions
are also in there as well.
And I just love the way thatthing is, it's structured.
So that is also.
Another form of, so looking forthat community, that support group,
somewhere where you can kind of feelsafe and be able to get that support.
(32:44):
And then practicing self compassiontreating yourself with kindness
being your own best friend,I feel is really important.
Boundary work, definitely, as I, youknow, mentioned earlier as well, setting
those new boundaries with this new lifethat you're creating, because you're
dealing with these emotions of somethingthat would have been, and at the same
(33:08):
time, you're creating something new.
So you're constantly find yourselfgoing back and forth, back and forth.
So setting those boundaries is definitelysomething that helps to keep you safe.
And engaging in self-care in the formof taking care of yourself physically,
(33:30):
mentally, emotionally, spiritually,on a daily basis, asking yourself that
question, have I done something to takecare of myself on a physical front?
That means exercise.
Exercise is a nice way of releasingthose hormones that help with stress.
And it's, it's a nice form ofa physical form of release.
(33:50):
And then mentally.
You know, what am I doing on that front?
How am I working with my thoughts?
How am I allowing these thoughtsto change me or control me?
So, kind of, you know, gettinginto that on the mental front
and emotionally as well.
How am I feeling?
What am I doing with these feelings?
(34:12):
What are they doing to me?
What am I allowing them to do to me?
That kind of stuff.
So yeah.
Yeah, that's such a good list.
So I'm going to reiterate, so allowyourself to feel, seek support,
things like the Queer DivorceClub, all those different types
of grief groups you talked about.
I think one of the things I was thinkingof as you were saying it is that, We have
(34:35):
to remind ourselves that grief we're goingthrough in a relationship transition is
just as valid as the grief somebody'sgoing through if somebody passed away.
And those support groups are, you know,there might be some specifically for
people who have lost people in differentways and hospice, like you're saying,
but there's also general grief groupsthat will allow you that space to get
the support that you need in those.
(34:56):
Yeah.
Practice self compassion, setboundaries and engage in self care.
So Yes.
Such a good list.
But also to rememberthat this is a journey.
This is a journey.
It's a unique journey for each personand, you know, to keep that connection
and just keep that connection.
Keep that in mind as you're doingall of this, because like we said
(35:18):
earlier, don't be too hard on yourself.
Give yourself thatcompassion and that empathy.
Yeah, yeah.
One of the things about boundaries thatI'm thinking about is that when you're
going through a divorce, there seems tobe an opinion from everybody around you.
There's also seems to be like opinionsof what you should do and shouldn't
do and who you should ask for help.
You're probably also givingyourself some of those opinions
(35:40):
as you're trying to figure it out.
And I would like to hear a little bitof what you might have to say about
like how to set those boundariesor how to ask for what you need.
But also in the case of like if somebody'ssaying we maybe we should go through a
list of like what not to say to people.
And then like how do youask or respond to that?
Like what not to say?
Like, that was hurtful, thatwas not, you know, whatever.
(36:01):
So maybe start with, like, whatshouldn't you say to somebody
who's going through a divorce?
Firstly, I think the, youknow, this has been a good rule
of thumb that has helped me.
So it doesn't matter what anybodysays what statements they say.
I think I have started practicingthis in my mind whenever
anybody says anything to me.
And I've had people say, Quitea few interesting things to me.
(36:24):
Like for instance just after my husbandhad passed away, Oh, you need to be strong
for your, your, your, your children.
I was like thinking to myselfobviously you politely say yes.
And, but in my mind, I'm likesure I need to be strong.
(36:44):
Okay.
Fine.
I, you know, that, I guess.
The way I see it is, if you look at itfrom two points of view, right, from
my point of view as the receiver andthe point of view of the person who's
giving, the person who is giving,especially if they have not experienced
this level of a divorce or a miscarriageor the loss of a parent or spouse
(37:11):
or child or whatever it is, right?
If you have not experienced that, canonly speculate what it feels like, right?
So, your, whatever you say to anybody thatyou encounter who's experiencing this,
is coming from a space of more from thehead and logically, okay, this is what you
(37:35):
need to do because this happened to you.
Okay, I am on the receiving side.
I've just had this experience.
I'm not interested in logic right now.
I need to know what do I need, you know?
So yes, so from the otherperson's point of view, that's
what they're thinking, right?
They've never experienced this.
I've experienced this and I'm like,yes, you're saying I should be strong.
(37:57):
I don't even know what that means.
How am I supposed to be strong?
Have you, do you have sometools and tips for me here?
Tell me how to be strong and I'm, I willhappily do it because I'm walking on a
road that I have not walked on before.
I don't know where to go with this.
I don't know what to do with this.
All I know is I have theseintense emotions inside of me.
(38:18):
Oh, I like that so much.
And you're like putting it onthem and being like, you're
telling me to be strong.
How am I supposed to be strong?
Do you have tips for that?
Do you have tips for how to do that?
Exactly.
So.
reframing my mind, okay?
Because at the end of the day, we can'tgo around fixing the world, right?
It's an, it's an impossible task to do,but we can do it in a smaller scale,
(38:43):
the people that we have around us.
So keeping that communication open andauthentic and saying, you know, you
said this, I mean, depending on thelevel of You know, the relationship,
like whether you could actually,communication, whether you could actually
say this to the person like somebodysaying, like, you know, I'm here for you
(39:07):
here.
I'm like, okay, I'm here for you.
But then that person is like,let me know if you need anything.
I'm here for you, but let meknow if you need anything.
I've had that come to me a lot orI'm gonna, you know, we know that
you're dealing with all of this.
We're going to give you space.
And I found myself I appreciate thespace because I'm still dealing with
(39:27):
this and I'm confused myself andI'm not sure what to do with this.
But as time goes by, the people who aregiving me space, that space physically,
that actually becomes physical space.
Now there is no connection betweenme and the people that I felt so
connected to who were giving me space.
Yeah.
Right.
So then I, it's like, okay.
(39:52):
It feels awkward now.
I, I, I don't want to go there anymore.
So I have to find a newspace where I can do this.
Yeah, what are some ways youcan combat that in that way?
Like, could you say somethinglike, I don't need space.
What I need is for you to check in withme every day and just say, I love you.
I'm thinking about you.
(40:12):
And not ask me of things.
Like, what is that?
Yes, it would look, looksomething like that.
Yes.
And that is the way the wholecommunication comes in, you know.
But then also, and that is alsoevolving and forever changing.
I may need the space in the very immediatedays of divorce or grief, you know, any
sort of grief that I'm dealing with, butover time it would be, you know, maybe
(40:37):
give me some space for a week or so.
Check, but please do checkin on me because I really do
appreciate that you check on me.
It makes me feel like somebody cares.
When nobody checks in on you ornobody calls you and sometimes it's
not even calling you to say, Hey,how are you doing with your grief?
What's going on?
Let's go through this checklist.
No, nobody.
(40:57):
Don't need to fix anything.
Just give me a call.
Check in on me.
Just have a conversation.
If something comes up, Let's just let theperson vent, don't try to fix anything
and just authentically just be there.
I'm listening.
I don't, I'm not judging you.
I'm not going to criticize you.
(41:17):
I don't have, I don't, I can'teven fathom what you're feeling
because I haven't experienced this.
Like my husband had said this to meonce when my mom passed away, he, you
know, it had came to a point wherehe was like, you know, I have been
trying so many different things.
In my power and our community, we hadreally good communication to help you and
(41:38):
be there for you, but I don't, I'm lostnow, I don't know how else to help you.
And initially I felt a littledisappointed, I was like, but you're,
you're my person, you're the personwho's supposed to be there for me.
And as I did more soul searchingand more introspection and things
like that, I realized that, youknow, he was just being honest.
(42:00):
That, and I could see his effort, Icould see he was trying and that is
what pushed me and I appreciated thateventually that is what pushed me onto
a path of, okay, I got to start findingways to help myself and not let what's
going on with me affect the realityof having these young kids, having a
husband, a family and all of that stuff.
And that's where the whole jail life camein, but anyway, getting back to the topic.
(42:23):
So, you know, maybe just reminding.
In, in those conversations saying to bea person, especially when you're trying
to support somebody saying things like,you know acknowledging their little
wins, like, you know, I can see this isdifficult, but I still see you showing up.
I still see you putting a smileon your face, even though you're
(42:44):
hiding all of that pain behind you.
That acknowledgement means so muchto us, leaving even in divorce.
I mean and, and, and like evenmiscarriage, I remember when I had a
miscarriage, I just wanted to hide away.
I, I judged myself.
I was like, what's wrong with me?
Why can't I.
Why did this happen to me?
I, you know, I'm never going tobe a mother and I don't mind can
(43:06):
play the craziest tricks on you.
Yeah, it's super real.
So, yeah, it's that supportsystem and the people around you
that help you to help yourself.
Initially.
And so.
Yeah.
And it sounds like you're sayinglike, it's okay through all of that.
(43:27):
If somebody isn't helping you in the rightway to ask for how you want to be helped
and also to say like, I don't know howyou, how I want you to help me, but I
just need you to check on me right now.
And that might change in a couple ofweeks and then I'll ask for something
else and you have to be brave in that.
And that's part of like youaccepting the self help, right?
It's part of you accepting that you are.
(43:47):
Empower of moving through that griefand even though you're feeling hard
and in some moments, you just want tocrawl in the dark and hide some moments.
You want to be out andplaying all of that's okay.
And you can be in control of thatand ask for, I mean, you're not in
control of the emotion necessarily,but you can guide yourself through it.
You can support yourself through it.
And that's all okay to do, even if you'regoing through a divorce and nobody wanted
(44:08):
you to get divorced or it's, you know,there's all this other shame around it.
Yes.
That associates it with divorce.
Yes.
I, I know that.
was a reality for me as well at onepoint when I was way back in my twenties.
And I did feel like, Oh, I don'tthink I'll ever find anybody to
spend the rest of my life with.
(44:28):
I don't think I'll findanybody to love me.
You know, I had those thoughts goingthrough me and through my mind and I
thought I felt like any the sore thumb,the one person sticking out there,
you know, when, with all the othercouples and the people that I knew
and then the people that I was with,you know, it's like, okay, everybody's
getting married or everybody my ageis either getting married, settling
(44:50):
down, having kids, whatever it is.
And here I am just experiencingthis whole rejection and is there
anything ever going to be for me?
You know, so all of that, that came brief,that came with that really did make me
feel lonely and alienated in so many ways.
(45:10):
But it also, I always like to pull that.
glimmer of hope or that silver liningout of any cloud that is over me.
And it also pushed me, that experiencepushed me into a space of self discovery.
It pushed me into a spaceof where I started trying
(45:31):
to find ways to help myself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Silver linings.
Are so good.
It's hard to find them throughoutthis, but they are always there.
Right?
Like always a yeah.
And I feel like the one of the thingsthat I've learned through divorce and
talking to everybody on this on thepodcast is that growth is necessary
(45:51):
to get through the rebuilding part.
After divorce, because no matter what,like, even if it's just, you just were
married for a year, not just you weremarried for a year and you're changing,
you have to, at the very least growinto what you want this new space to be.
Right.
So there's a time there's incrementalamounts and large amounts, but growth
has to be what you need to move forward.
Yes.
And you know, something interestingthat kind of came up for me as well,
(46:15):
which I, I dabble with a lot in my mind.
And especially when I getall these crazy thoughts is
My attachment to what could have beenwhen I start detaching myself from
what I don't have control over, Ifeel like I have so much more control.
(46:41):
I don't know if that evenmakes sense in a strange way.
I forget about, I stopped spendingtoo much time and too much thought and
energy on, Oh, if only I did this, thenthis would have happened if only I, you
know, that kind of stuff, and I stopped.
Embracing more of, okay,this happened to me.
(47:05):
It hurts.
I don't like it, but this is my realityand I want life to be beautiful.
So what am I going todo to make it beautiful?
And I'm not, every time this.
Baggage comes back to haunt me?
Okay, bye bye.
Let me put you back in yourplace where you belong.
This is Nina.
Yeah, I like that idea of, that's so good.
(47:27):
I have my partner and I have we call ourbaggage, we've named our baggage Ned.
So when he's coming, when Ned's coming inwith this huge suitcase of crap from our
past, just want to kick him out of there,but it's not always easy to do that.
It's like, It's so hard, but itis also, like you were saying,
it's profound to name it as thebaggage that's coming along.
It's not the reality.
It's not what you're here with.
(47:48):
And yeah, it's really amazing.
To think about this thoughts,this is another thing that
I play games with my mind.
Thoughts are I mean, wheredo your thoughts come from?
Sometimes I find these craziestthings in my head and I'm like,
did I intentionally think that?
Where did this come from?
Why am I thinking this in the first place?
So, I play this game with myself now.
(48:11):
Whenever I get thesethoughts, I'm like, ah.
So the thoughts are, to menow, thoughts are visitors.
Okay?
It's a guest.
This is a guest that has entered my mind.
What am I going to do with this guest?
I am going to politely say,thank you for visiting.
But we're good here.
you know and not entertain that thought,not give it any, any, any momentum
(48:33):
or not give it any importance andjust let it flow away like a wave.
Bye bye.
Let's go through these thoughts now.
Think of our thoughts as a guess.
Yes.
So you're right.
I feel like It's, it's interestingwhen I started to, I feel like I
never started to learn how emotionsand thoughts worked until after I got
(48:55):
divorced and started this healing processand so that's been super interesting.
But you're right, it's like more andmore thoughts are just reactive and
in this moment and your body knows andso it's important to, like you said,
I love that, like, invite them for asecond and be like, thanks for coming.
Appreciate you, but you don'tneed to be here anymore.
It's really good.
Really good.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
(49:15):
Ashmeeta, thank you somuch for being here today.
Everything that you've sharedis so lovely and So good.
And I feel like it will be so profoundfor our listeners to hear what you're
saying about grief and how it can connectto this loss of in relationship and
love and connection that you're having.
And so I really appreciate that.
Thank you so very much.
For our listeners, if you want tofind Ashmeeta's stuff, I'll put
it out in the show notes, but herwebsite is story you tell yourself.
(49:39):
com.
You can find her on social media at grossstory hub on Instagram and Facebook and
herself on Twitter and LinkedIn as well.
And I'll put all those,all those links out there.
Thank you so very muchfor being here today.
It has been my pleasure.
I've really enjoyed thisconversation with you.
Thank you for joining us forthe Queer Divorce Club podcast.
(50:01):
We hope that our discussions haveprovided you with valuable insights
and support throughout your journey.
If you're a member of the LGBTQIA pluscommunity and find yourself contemplating
divorce, currently going through theprocess or in the process of rebuilding
your life after divorce, we inviteyou to join the Queer Divorce Club.
Connect with others who have similarexperiences and find a sense of
(50:21):
community by visiting QueerDivorceClub.
com.
There you can join support groupstailored to your needs and connect
with individuals who understand theunique challenges you may be facing.
Before we wrap up, we'd liketo ask for your support.
If you've enjoyed our podcast and find ithelpful, please take a moment to show us
some love wherever you listen to podcasts.
Your reviews and ratingsmean the world to us.
(50:43):
They not only ensure that you nevermiss an episode, but also help others
discover our podcast for the first time.
Remember, you are notalone on this journey.
We're here to provide you with thetools, knowledge, and support you need
to live a healthy and vibrant life,both during and beyond your divorce.
And as always, remember that eachday you are doing your best for
yourself and your family, andthat's nothing short of amazing.
(51:07):
Thank you to Bungalow Heaven forproviding the music for this podcast.
We'll see you all next time.
Hey, hey, Queer Divorce Club.
(00:01):
Welcome back.
This is Tera.
And today I'm excited to bringyou a new episode of the podcast
featuring Ashmeeta Madhav.
Ashmeeta is a resilience and griefsupport advocate and founder of Growth
Story Hub, a group that providesaccess to support and resources when
dealing with trauma, loss, and grief.
Ashmeeta was divorcedyoung and then remarried.
(00:23):
After losing her second husband froma terminal illness with young kids
in tow, Ashmeeta set out on a journeyto heal and feel through her grief.
After her own journey, she realized thatmore people needed support with grief,
no matter how they were experiencing it.
Grief can come in many forms, andhuge life changes and losses through
divorce is one area where griefcan be prevalent with very little
(00:45):
support for those who experience it.
Ashmeeta walked me through thevarious emotions we can have in grief.
How to support yourself through grief,and how to rebuild while grieving.
Ashmeeta has wonderful advice onhow to set boundaries for yourself,
listen to your inner knowing, andsupport yourself with compassion and
understanding while you're grieving.
There is no right way to grieve, butone thing Ashmeeta knows for sure
(01:08):
is that you have to believe your ownintuition and give yourself the utmost
compassion during the hardest times.
She says that compassion for yourselfreally starts and ends with you.
I'm looking forward to sharing ourtalk with you, so let's get started.
(01:41):
Hi, Ashmeeta!
Welcome to Queer Divorce Club!
Hi, how are you?
Thank you very much.
I'm so happy to have you here.
Most of our topics have been focused onspecifically on divorce or being queer.
But something that's a huge, profoundpiece of divorce that I didn't
realize before I got divorced isthe idea that, that you have to go
(02:04):
through a grief process followingthat following the relationship.
And it's something that a lot ofpeople in the Queer Divorce Club
have brought up, friends who'vegotten divorced, and they don't
understand the heaviness of that grief.
Whether they choose divorce or not,it becomes a really big struggle
or a big shift in how they livetheir life or connect with others.
(02:25):
And so I really think it'sreally important to talk about.
So I'm very thankful thatyou're here today with us.
I appreciate it.
Yes.
Thank you very much.
To get us started, can you giveus an idea of what you do to what
work you do around with grief?
Yes.
So I am the founder of anorganization called Growth Story Hub.
(02:46):
We provide a safe place supportiveplace for individuals to kind of
navigate the complexities of grief.
We have things like discussiongroups blogs that I write and also
an initiative that's it's actuallya challenge that we have out called
the Grieve and Grow Challenge.
So all of the information is onmy website about that challenge.
(03:09):
And the group basically is more justto help people who are dealing with
grief to come to a place where theycould probably find some resources,
some support and that kind of stuff.
So that's why way of giving backafter all of the various different
losses that I've experienced and thegrief that was associated with it.
(03:34):
What brought you to focusing ongrief and your interest in grief?
Well, I I think my last major experiencethat I had with loss was the, when my
husband passed away four years back afterstruggling with pancreatic cancer and
just the grief of watching that disease,that illness, that cancer, what it did to
(04:00):
his body and what it did to our family.
That grief was happening realisticallyat the same time while we were dealing
with this whole cancer situation.
And then when, after he passed allof the logistics and the reality that
knocked us all we have three kids.
So each one of us in our own way, grievingand trying to work through this thing
(04:24):
that happened to us and shook our world.
So that's kind of like what broughtme into the whole grief thing.
Cause I was, you know, watching my kids,hearing of a lot of other people who
are going through grief and just knowingwhat a lonely, stuck place it can be.
I wanted to just put out my, whatI've gained from my experience and the
(04:49):
things that I'm doing to help myself.
You never know if you could helpsomeone else just by sharing.
That's basically how it started.
Sure, absolutely.
And it sounds like you very muchunderstand the idea that grief doesn't,
you don't just get to stop your life togrieve, you have to do it at the same
time sometimes as doing other things,as taking care of kids, as moving
(05:12):
through all these other parts of life.
And that's a huge, a huge part of why thegrief process can be so difficult, right?
We can't just sit with it.
At any given moment, we have so manyother life factors and so many other
things that get in the way of that.
Exactly.
Yes, that is 100 percent true.
When my mom had passed away back in2008 I was still a new mom myself,
(05:35):
still had two little, both my older kidswere still young, studying elementary
school by myself in a new country.
All the dynamics that go withthat, just learning to live in a
new country and things like that.
But then at the same time dealing withthe grief I found myself living a double
life because grief is just that kind of athing that once you've experienced it, you
(05:57):
could actually be in a space to supportor even just understand and empathize.
not fix.
There's nothing to fix here.
Just be able to understand andempathize with another human being.
But until, not until you experience thatlevel of grief in you is my opinion.
It's my opinion.
(06:18):
Yeah.
Well, it sounds like you have a lotof experience to put behind that.
I hear you saying like, you can't fix it.
You can't just flip a switch on it.
You have to, you know, whycan't you just fix grief?
Like what is, what is it?
It is, it is a realitythat one is put into.
based on an experience.
(06:38):
And I mean, you know, deathisn't, you don't only experience
grief because of death.
You can experience griefwhen you have a miscarriage.
You can experience a certain level, youknow, a degree of grief when like with
divorce, rejection, social alienation,you know, all of that kind of stuff.
As human beings, we want tofeel like we add value or we
(07:01):
welcome or we belong somewhere.
And with grief, what happens is Youfind yourself in a lonely place and
because you find yourself in thislonely place with all of these emotions
that are not so easily accepted outin society, maybe for various reasons.
(07:21):
Maybe people don't knowhow to react to you.
Maybe it's just too much.
So they, you know, And the messages thaton the receiving side, the person was
actually grieving, the messages thatyou subtly get are like, okay, this
person doesn't care about me or, youknow, all of those negative messages.
And I found myself in that place as well.
(07:44):
And as time has gone, I'vejust realized that this is a
journey and it is my journey.
So I have got to be kind to myselfwith whatever comes up with for me.
And this is different for each humanbeing based on the level of loss and
(08:05):
the intensity and that kind of stuff.
It definitely is a unique journeythat whatever comes up for me,
I need, I'm going to embrace it.
It's going to be hard, but I'mgoing to embrace it and work with
it and take it one step at a time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(08:25):
I'm looking forward to talkwith you more about that.
And I'm interested as you'retalking about that loneliness.
I think that's something that a lot ofpeople who are going through divorce
are feeling is that intense loneliness.
Do you think there's something uniquespecifically about the grief in divorce
and why grief is so profound in divorce?
Why do you think that is?
(08:45):
It's, it's kind of like this,you, you get married or you commit
yourself to another human being.
And with that comes this, all these hopesand dreams and expectations and that
relationship that, because at the end ofthe day, it's these feelings are something
that I am feeling towards the next person.
(09:06):
And then I commit to this relationship.
And with that comes this beautiful.
thing that two people create, right?
And then when that suddenly just.
goes away.
It's almost like what I felt.
I mean, I felt it before when I had Iwas married before and I had that happen
(09:30):
to me where I was just totally rejected.
And so yeah, kind of a divorce too.
I felt really like I felt vulnerable.
I felt used.
I felt let down.
All of those emotions came up forme and I had nowhere to send them
because somebody did this to me.
(09:51):
I didn't do this.
I didn't decide this, right?
So for instance, like when my husband,okay, my husband passed away, we
had this beautiful marriage that weworked at and, you know, built for
23 years and suddenly he's gone.
Who am I?
Is what I struggled with a lot.
So that feeling of loneliness andfeeling of that connection and that
(10:15):
emotional investment that we hadboth put into that relationship.
It's like, okay.
it's gone.
What was, what was it worth?
What, you know, it really makes youfeel very alone and disillusioned.
Kind of just sitting with thatand practicing a lot of self love.
Yeah.
Is what has helped.
(10:36):
Yeah.
Can you explain a little bit in that,like, I heard you talk about lots
of different emotions and of coursewe see as we go through divorce
or any type of big life change, wesee all these different emotions.
How is grief one of the emotions?
Is grief a process?
What is grief specifically in that?
Well, grief is basically the, my opinionof the whole, and my understanding
(10:58):
of what I feel like it is, it isbasically a symptom or like sort of
a reaction, my, my mind and my bodyand my whole being reacting to an
experience that has changed my life.
So if I look at it that way, thenlike with any illness, when you have
(11:23):
symptoms, you deal with the symptoms.
We can't, I mean, the rootcause is my husband is dead.
I have to deal with, that is the reality.
It's nothing that I'm going to be able to,and even in the case of a divorce, right?
It's when people decide they want to go,one person decides to go a separate way.
(11:44):
The other person feels like,okay, I really don't want this.
I think we can still work at it orwhatever it is in that, in that scenario.
One person is going to be left with allof this baggage that, you know, there's
still very been that glimmer of hope.
And yeah, yeah, I think even likeyou are answering the question.
(12:08):
I think it sounds like.
You're saying that grief is kind ofthe, the overarching shift that you're
making and all the stuff that goesunderneath that and everything that
gets carried along with that, theloss and the hope and all of that.
And I also heard you say that, you know,there's this grief if somebody chose
to divorce and you didn't have the Ifyou were the one that didn't choose
(12:29):
it, but are going through the divorce.
But I think there's also this grief on theother side, where if you're the one that
chose it, you're grieving what you hopedyou could have had in that relationship.
A lot of times, right, you'regrieving what you hoped or what you
thought your life was going to be.
And so there's this huge loss.
There's this huge loss in what youthought it was going to be, you know,
(12:51):
and that's similar to like, if somebodyhas, has passed away or if somebody is
sick or if you lose a dog, you know,that grief, it's like, again, your
life is changing, you're shifting.
And whether you choose the divorce ornot, you're, You're grieving what it
could have been, what you wanted it tobe, what you thought it was going to be.
(13:11):
Can you explain, I think everybody'sheard of the stages of grief.
If you haven't, Google stagesof grief and you can find that
there's five, it's everywhere.
I feel like my entire life peoplehave been like, you're just in denial.
You're just in the angerpart, you know, all of that.
So could you give us just a quick, like,glimpse of what are the five stages
of grief and how do you know which oneyou're in and why is it important to know?
(13:33):
Okay.
So from, you know, the five stagesof grief, I guess, as you said,
we can Google it, and we'll see.
It is, you know, denial, anger,bargaining, depression, and
then acceptance, finally.
I really think that you know, it'sreally a cool way of having some sort of
framework towards understanding all ofthese complex emotions that we go through
(13:55):
when we have challenging situations, like.
loss.
And, you know, they kind of validateour feelings and make us just
give us a framework to work with.
Recognizing that these challengescan, you know, by self reflection and
seeking support it can really help.
And in each of these different stages, itis beneficial to sort of like acknowledge.
(14:19):
So denial, you know, it's beneficialwhen you find that, you know, I
can't come to grips with this.
thing that has happened, justacknowledging and embracing reality
is where the whole sort of denial,you can counter that by accepting.
(14:44):
And then anger is also comesfrom a place of I'm disappointed.
I'm maybe even afraid to some point.
Like if you really peel back the onion,the core, you know and then basically
just trying to bargaining, depression,all of those things, all of those
(15:09):
you know, different parts of grief.
I don't think they happenin a specific order.
I noticed.
When I was grieving when my mom passedaway my very first experience with
death because we had spoken about thesekinds of things in our family as I
was a young kid and things like that.
I mean, I knew it was going to happen oneday, but of course, when it did happen,
(15:32):
I still did go through these feelings.
I didn't find myself bargaining so much.
I didn't find myself having toomuch of a, like a depression,
but I did have denial and anger.
And then at some point later downthe line, when I started just getting
(15:53):
more familiar with death and doingmore research and spiritual growth
and all that kind of stuff came toa point of acceptance where, you
know, I'm, yes, we all say is lifeand death part of the circle of life.
We know that, but when we are exposed tothat death, when somebody, when that loss
(16:15):
happens, we're just thrown off our feet.
It's like the ground has been pulled outfrom under us and we've totally lost.
So this is a nice framework.
It's a really nice framework touse, but it doesn't go in that
order and it doesn't, you don'thave to necessarily feel all of it.
That's my experience.
Yeah, so it's not a ladder.
You're just walking up asyou go through the process.
(16:38):
Dang.
It would be really nice if it was, right?
You could just move from one tothe other, push it along real fast.
See if you can get through.
You can't just do that.
No, but you know, think of,think of the other side of it.
Like, you know, not, not, I mean if Ionly go through a few of those things
(16:58):
and not everything, but I think whatneeds With grief, I think everybody
actually goes through and I'm generalizinghere, but once you experience a
level of loss, you automaticallystart becoming aware of yourself and
your feelings and what comes withdifferent things that come up for you.
(17:22):
I don't know.
I'm still exploring that idea in mymind, but I have noticed that I have
become so much more aware of me.
And how I react in different situationsand how this grief has changed me so much.
Yeah, so if you start, you know, reactingwith it or connecting with the grief
inside you, you can become a littlebit more aware of your own feelings
and how you're connecting to otherthings and, and that sort of stuff.
(17:44):
Yeah.
Yes.
And how you're showing up.
for yourself and for the peoplearound you, even though you still
have this grief inside of you.
Right, right.
So it's a practice of, of listeningto your body, listening to what's
happening, the same as every other emotionwe're feeling, but it's just intense.
(18:05):
It's just, yeah, and that's why I feelthat, you know, solitude and being
alone, it's actually not a bad thing.
You know, we say we're alone,but are we really alone?
Even when you're physicallyalone, you're still with someone.
You're with yourself.
So you might be physicallyalone, but you're never going
to be alone, alone, ever.
(18:26):
Yeah.
How do you convince yourself that you'renot alone when you're just by yourself?
Is that a thing?
Is that a possible?
No one's ever asked me that question.
And I haven't really given that toomuch a thought, but I enjoy my solitude.
I enjoy my lonely time, my time alone.
(18:48):
There was a time where I was actually,I would feel like, Oh, I'm alone.
There's nobody with me.
Who do I rely on if Ineed to get this done?
Or if I, and if I think about it, it's allthe logistics that I'm trying to find you.
help or whatever it is toget an action done, right?
Which is something that is doable.
(19:08):
And, you know, just by reaching outto people, you'll find someone who
can help you, but being alone withmyself, how do I convince myself
that it's okay to be alone by myselfand to be happy with being alone?
It's just the more you are withyourself alone and you do all of that
introspecting, journaling in whicheverform that you can, retrospect, you know,
(19:30):
just Going within and talking to yourself.
A lot of the self talk, it justautomatically starts feeling comfortable.
And once you start feeling comfortablewith yourself, being just you and
yourself, I mean, when you go out ona walk, if you don't necessarily have
company, if you go out on a hike oryou go out for a walk in nature a lot
(19:52):
of times people are doing it aloneor they'll have their headphones on
and they'll be listening to somethingor whatever it is, but sometimes
not even listening to anything andjust authentically being alone.
It's, it's not scary at all, really.
It sounds scary, but it really isn't.
It's, it's amazing what comes upand then just going with that.
(20:15):
Yeah, so to take the leap of beingby yourselves and feeling the safety
of the, of being by yourself andtalking, it takes time, right?
Like you were saying, thejournaling, the walking, the
practice, yeah, just like anything.
Yes, it does take time, but I really,really do feel one thing I've learned
through this whole journey, especiallyafter the death of my husband in this
last four years, which has really changedme a lot and helped me in so many ways
(20:38):
because I've had to rediscover myself is.
investing in myself, parenting myself,setting boundaries, being intentional
about where I go, what I do, how muchtime I spend, wherever it is that I spend.
I see that as me investing inmyself and getting to know myself.
(21:00):
We do that.
We do that when we getinto a relationship, right?
With another person, we, we give our best.
We go all out when we parent, whenwe are nurturing our children,
our infants, our young children.
It's just a natural thing that we do forthem because we want the best for them.
Yeah.
So how about when you're in that situationwhere you're struggling and you're
(21:21):
alone and you know the world out thereis not able to be there for you the
way you need them to be there for you.
How about starting with yourself and doingit for yourself and then slowly teaching
the people around you or letting themknow what you need and don't need and
that's where the boundary work comes in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I think.
(21:42):
Yeah.
It sounds like you're sopeaceful in that space.
Like it feels so comforting and I knowI've been on that practice too of like
trying to parent myself and connectwith myself and learning self compassion
and all those things that it takes.
And whenever it does work, it doesfeel so good, but it is so scary.
You're right.
It's so interesting how we cansupport everybody else and nurture
our kids and our parents and ourfriends and all of these things, but
(22:04):
it's so hard to do for ourselves.
So frustrating.
So frustrating.
It's frustrating.
You are so right.
I struggled with that for a while, andI still do sometimes, you know because
I'm trying to show up for everyoneelse and try to be there for the kids
and trying to fill shoes that I don'tknow where I necessarily need to be
(22:25):
filling shoes, those shoes, you know.
So it adds a lot of stress.
Into my life and I, okay, you know,I think I need to priorit, you
know, put things into perspective.
Be who I am.
I want to know who am Iand what am I capable of.
(22:46):
So that's where, that's why spendingthat time and with yourself helps you
to get understand what are my values?
What am I here for?
What do I think I'm here for?
Lemme discover.
I really see this as Icome to see this as this.
journey that is just so rewarding inso many ways, even though it has so
(23:08):
many challenges, but It's like, youknow, watching a lot of the rings
and you see how things evolve andpeople change and characters change.
And especially that, you know,the way that ring can, if you
allow it to, it can take over.
So that's where that whole embracingand empowering yourself comes in.
(23:32):
So it's about you and something thatI use to help myself, keep myself
on perspective, in perspective andon track to keep in my lane kind of
thing is I remind myself continuallythat it all starts and ends with me.
It all starts and ends with meand how I have choices then.
(23:53):
So how am I going to try to do that?
It all starts and ends with me.
How many times a day did you haveto say that to yourself at first?
I had a lot of self, you know, I foundthese few little things that I say
to myself continuously and sometimesI'd be saying it to myself almost,
(24:17):
initially I would be saying it tomyself every day, almost every hour.
It was some juice.
It just depends on what would come upfor me and how uncomfortable or anxious
I was feeling in any situation or placethat I was in or whatever was going on
around me at that very given moment.
Things like just saying tomyself you're safe, all is well.
(24:38):
A lot of times when we're anxiousit's that mind, especially when it's,
you know, the experience is reallytraumatic, your mind automatically
goes into that fight or flight mode.
Where, and your nervoussystem is all fired up.
So, when I read that somewhere,I thought, you know, I need to
calm this nervous system down.
(24:59):
How do I do that?
And I started experimentingwith various different things.
One thing that works for meis just tapping my heart and
reminding my, repeatedly saying tomyself, all is well, you're safe.
So that self talk again, youknow sometimes I can't be sitting
in public and tapping my heart,somebody will think I'm crazy.
(25:21):
So I'm sitting there andrepeating it in my mind.
You know, maybe I'll close my eyes.
All is fine.
Incorporate some deep breathing with that.
And then, yes, remind myself continually.
Yeah, it's really reassuring that you werelike, it's a lot and sometimes it's like
every few minutes and sometimes it's less.
And I think that I know I personallycan get into this space where it's
(25:43):
like, I feel like I'm having to doit too many times during the day.
And if I haven't, if I'm doing it toomany times and I'm giving myself a
hard time for it, and then I'm like,this is a process, you know, it's this
whole cycle of like, just, it's okay,you're okay, it's natural, but it's
really difficult to get to that spot.
You know, you said something veryinteresting there and that you beat up on
(26:04):
yourself about not being able to do it.
And that in itself is usbeing so hard on ourselves.
Think about this.
When a child is learningto ride a bicycle, right?
We are so supportive and theywill fall and they want to give
up and they want to do all of thatstuff because it becomes hard.
(26:25):
It's like, I can't dothis, all of that, right?
Us as parents, or as a person who'sthat motivational, you know, we motivate
them, we inspire them, we support them.
We, you got this, keep going,you can do this, right?
Why is it that we, when it comes toourselves, Where, oh, you know, for my,
(26:46):
in my case, I was like, so diligent withmy meditation practice for a long time.
And then suddenly somethinghappened, which shifted all of that.
And I wasn't able to do it at the time,and I wasn't able to keep that going.
And with, as time went on,I slowly started losing it.
And I'm mad with myself nowbecause I'm not able to do that.
And I know that benefits meso much and I really enjoy it.
(27:10):
And I've realized, you know what?
I need to be realistic.
Things change.
Things are constantly evolving.
That's the nature of changeand the dynamics of change.
So, how about I just give myselfa little bit of empathy here.
I'm not, you know, trying, I'm not making,I know I'm not making excuses for myself.
(27:33):
Reality has changed a little.
Dynamics have changed.
But I know I want to do this.
I'm going to take baby stepsand start doing it again.
I'm Yeah.
You deserve just as much support andmotivation as that kid on the bike.
Yes.
It's really true.
It's really true.
So let's not put ourselves downwhen we feel like I know I need to
be doing this but I'm not doing it.
(27:54):
just the fact that you're awarethat there's something that
you're doing for yourself.
And maybe you might need to doa lot of it at one time because
that's what you need then.
Later down the line, you may notneed to do this so much of it.
You may need to still doit, but not so much of it.
And we don't need to beatup on ourselves about it.
Yeah.
Ooh.
That's so and so lovely.
(28:15):
It's lovely to reach that spaceheading in the right direction.
I'd like to talk a littlebit, even this is so good.
Just even that part I feel likeis, you know, a reminder of common
humanity that all of us go throughthe same types of processes when
we're in this immense grief space.
Like we give ourself shame, wegive ourself a hard time, we need
extra support and all of that.
(28:36):
It's absolutely okay.
And that's such a good reminder.
And I think one of the things withdivorce that, and I think with any
type of grief, but specifically withdivorce, your life is completely
changing after that divorce, right?
Like maybe you were married for 20years, maybe you're only married
for two years, no matter what, youwere building this specific life
and now it's completely changing.
(28:58):
So you have to completely reframehow you're looking at what you want.
You have to take control of what you want.
You have to be in this spacewhere you have freaking no
clue what you want, right?
Like there's all of these things thatare on the other side of like completely
shifting your life and it's really couldbe traumatic, you know, small T or big T
depending on what you're going through.
(29:19):
How was it possible todo that at the same time?
Like what things do you need to do toboth grieve and rebuild at the same time?
The one important thing is,you know, honoring the past.
but also at the same time.
So you're doing this like simultaneouslyhonoring the past, whenever
(29:42):
things about the past come up, butcreating a new reality for yourself.
And the way to kind of do that isto, like we were talking earlier,
prioritizing self care, kindnesstowards yourself allowing yourself to
feel, to give the, you know, givingyourself the permission to experience
(30:02):
those range emotions that come up.
When they come up, not topush them down or subdue them.
So as those emotions come up to kindabe with them and understand them, it
is actually a very important part ofthe grieving process, acknowledging
them and just giving yourself thatpermission to experience that emotion.
(30:28):
Sometimes you don't evenunderstand the emotion.
I need to cry right now.
And I remember that after my husbandpassed away and when some of the, you
know, the logistics of what happensafter a person passes away, all of that
stuff, especially when I find myselfalone, it's just like, I'm just crying.
And I'm like, why am I crying?
Nothing happened.
Nothing physically happened to me.
(30:48):
But this emotion is so intense.
It's like the soda pop bottle,you know, when you shake it and
that well, it needs to come out.
You can't keep it in and actuallyletting it out is so healthy.
Yes, let's be responsible aboutwhere we do it, how we do it
all of that kind of stuff.
But being able to do, to letthat out is really healing.
(31:12):
It's your body's way of saying,your body's helping you.
It seems weird, but it really,our bodies are helping us.
They protect us.
They help us.
So allowing yourself to feel, seekingsupport, there may you know, there's,
there's lots of support groups andall of that kind of stuff out there.
Specifically in the sense of griefafter the loss, like death, there's
(31:34):
things like some funeral homes havesocial workers you know, They, for
me, that was almost a life changer.
That was so precious.
I really appreciated that.
My husband was in hospice, so we had theservice of hospice after he passed away.
Hospice has a beautiful group thatthey, a group setting where they offer
(31:57):
to, you know, surviving People whosurvive, what are the words there?
But yeah, they had thisgrief support group.
And then there's anotherorganization called grief share.
Which is like a six to eightweek program mostly run by
volunteers and things like that.
But a safe place that you couldgo to you working through a
(32:20):
workbook and understanding things.
So there's a lot of logic putbehind it, but then your emotions
are also in there as well.
And I just love the way thatthing is, it's structured.
So that is also.
Another form of, so looking forthat community, that support group,
somewhere where you can kind of feelsafe and be able to get that support.
(32:44):
And then practicing self compassiontreating yourself with kindness
being your own best friend,I feel is really important.
Boundary work, definitely, as I, youknow, mentioned earlier as well, setting
those new boundaries with this new lifethat you're creating, because you're
dealing with these emotions of somethingthat would have been, and at the same
(33:08):
time, you're creating something new.
So you're constantly find yourselfgoing back and forth, back and forth.
So setting those boundaries is definitelysomething that helps to keep you safe.
And engaging in self-care in the formof taking care of yourself physically,
(33:30):
mentally, emotionally, spiritually,on a daily basis, asking yourself that
question, have I done something to takecare of myself on a physical front?
That means exercise.
Exercise is a nice way of releasingthose hormones that help with stress.
And it's, it's a nice form ofa physical form of release.
(33:50):
And then mentally.
You know, what am I doing on that front?
How am I working with my thoughts?
How am I allowing these thoughtsto change me or control me?
So, kind of, you know, gettinginto that on the mental front
and emotionally as well.
How am I feeling?
What am I doing with these feelings?
(34:12):
What are they doing to me?
What am I allowing them to do to me?
That kind of stuff.
So yeah.
Yeah, that's such a good list.
So I'm going to reiterate, so allowyourself to feel, seek support,
things like the Queer DivorceClub, all those different types
of grief groups you talked about.
I think one of the things I was thinkingof as you were saying it is that, We have
(34:35):
to remind ourselves that grief we're goingthrough in a relationship transition is
just as valid as the grief somebody'sgoing through if somebody passed away.
And those support groups are, you know,there might be some specifically for
people who have lost people in differentways and hospice, like you're saying,
but there's also general grief groupsthat will allow you that space to get
the support that you need in those.
(34:56):
Yeah.
Practice self compassion, setboundaries and engage in self care.
So Yes.
Such a good list.
But also to rememberthat this is a journey.
This is a journey.
It's a unique journey for each personand, you know, to keep that connection
and just keep that connection.
Keep that in mind as you're doingall of this, because like we said
(35:18):
earlier, don't be too hard on yourself.
Give yourself thatcompassion and that empathy.
Yeah, yeah.
One of the things about boundaries thatI'm thinking about is that when you're
going through a divorce, there seems tobe an opinion from everybody around you.
There's also seems to be like opinionsof what you should do and shouldn't
do and who you should ask for help.
You're probably also givingyourself some of those opinions
(35:40):
as you're trying to figure it out.
And I would like to hear a little bitof what you might have to say about
like how to set those boundariesor how to ask for what you need.
But also in the case of like if somebody'ssaying we maybe we should go through a
list of like what not to say to people.
And then like how do youask or respond to that?
Like what not to say?
Like, that was hurtful, thatwas not, you know, whatever.
(36:01):
So maybe start with, like, whatshouldn't you say to somebody
who's going through a divorce?
Firstly, I think the, youknow, this has been a good rule
of thumb that has helped me.
So it doesn't matter what anybodysays what statements they say.
I think I have started practicingthis in my mind whenever
anybody says anything to me.
And I've had people say, Quitea few interesting things to me.
(36:24):
Like for instance just after my husbandhad passed away, Oh, you need to be strong
for your, your, your, your children.
I was like thinking to myselfobviously you politely say yes.
And, but in my mind, I'm likesure I need to be strong.
(36:44):
Okay.
Fine.
I, you know, that, I guess.
The way I see it is, if you look at itfrom two points of view, right, from
my point of view as the receiver andthe point of view of the person who's
giving, the person who is giving,especially if they have not experienced
this level of a divorce or a miscarriageor the loss of a parent or spouse
(37:11):
or child or whatever it is, right?
If you have not experienced that, canonly speculate what it feels like, right?
So, your, whatever you say to anybody thatyou encounter who's experiencing this,
is coming from a space of more from thehead and logically, okay, this is what you
(37:35):
need to do because this happened to you.
Okay, I am on the receiving side.
I've just had this experience.
I'm not interested in logic right now.
I need to know what do I need, you know?
So yes, so from the otherperson's point of view, that's
what they're thinking, right?
They've never experienced this.
I've experienced this and I'm like,yes, you're saying I should be strong.
(37:57):
I don't even know what that means.
How am I supposed to be strong?
Have you, do you have sometools and tips for me here?
Tell me how to be strong and I'm, I willhappily do it because I'm walking on a
road that I have not walked on before.
I don't know where to go with this.
I don't know what to do with this.
All I know is I have theseintense emotions inside of me.
(38:18):
Oh, I like that so much.
And you're like putting it onthem and being like, you're
telling me to be strong.
How am I supposed to be strong?
Do you have tips for that?
Do you have tips for how to do that?
Exactly.
So.
reframing my mind, okay?
Because at the end of the day, we can'tgo around fixing the world, right?
It's an, it's an impossible task to do,but we can do it in a smaller scale,
(38:43):
the people that we have around us.
So keeping that communication open andauthentic and saying, you know, you
said this, I mean, depending on thelevel of You know, the relationship,
like whether you could actually,communication, whether you could actually
say this to the person like somebodysaying, like, you know, I'm here for you
(39:07):
here.
I'm like, okay, I'm here for you.
But then that person is like,let me know if you need anything.
I'm here for you, but let meknow if you need anything.
I've had that come to me a lot orI'm gonna, you know, we know that
you're dealing with all of this.
We're going to give you space.
And I found myself I appreciate thespace because I'm still dealing with
(39:27):
this and I'm confused myself andI'm not sure what to do with this.
But as time goes by, the people who aregiving me space, that space physically,
that actually becomes physical space.
Now there is no connection betweenme and the people that I felt so
connected to who were giving me space.
Yeah.
Right.
So then I, it's like, okay.
(39:52):
It feels awkward now.
I, I, I don't want to go there anymore.
So I have to find a newspace where I can do this.
Yeah, what are some ways youcan combat that in that way?
Like, could you say somethinglike, I don't need space.
What I need is for you to check in withme every day and just say, I love you.
I'm thinking about you.
(40:12):
And not ask me of things.
Like, what is that?
Yes, it would look, looksomething like that.
Yes.
And that is the way the wholecommunication comes in, you know.
But then also, and that is alsoevolving and forever changing.
I may need the space in the very immediatedays of divorce or grief, you know, any
sort of grief that I'm dealing with, butover time it would be, you know, maybe
(40:37):
give me some space for a week or so.
Check, but please do checkin on me because I really do
appreciate that you check on me.
It makes me feel like somebody cares.
When nobody checks in on you ornobody calls you and sometimes it's
not even calling you to say, Hey,how are you doing with your grief?
What's going on?
Let's go through this checklist.
No, nobody.
(40:57):
Don't need to fix anything.
Just give me a call.
Check in on me.
Just have a conversation.
If something comes up, Let's just let theperson vent, don't try to fix anything
and just authentically just be there.
I'm listening.
I don't, I'm not judging you.
I'm not going to criticize you.
(41:17):
I don't have, I don't, I can'teven fathom what you're feeling
because I haven't experienced this.
Like my husband had said this to meonce when my mom passed away, he, you
know, it had came to a point wherehe was like, you know, I have been
trying so many different things.
In my power and our community, we hadreally good communication to help you and
(41:38):
be there for you, but I don't, I'm lostnow, I don't know how else to help you.
And initially I felt a littledisappointed, I was like, but you're,
you're my person, you're the personwho's supposed to be there for me.
And as I did more soul searchingand more introspection and things
like that, I realized that, youknow, he was just being honest.
(42:00):
That, and I could see his effort, Icould see he was trying and that is
what pushed me and I appreciated thateventually that is what pushed me onto
a path of, okay, I got to start findingways to help myself and not let what's
going on with me affect the realityof having these young kids, having a
husband, a family and all of that stuff.
And that's where the whole jail life camein, but anyway, getting back to the topic.
(42:23):
So, you know, maybe just reminding.
In, in those conversations saying to bea person, especially when you're trying
to support somebody saying things like,you know acknowledging their little
wins, like, you know, I can see this isdifficult, but I still see you showing up.
I still see you putting a smileon your face, even though you're
(42:44):
hiding all of that pain behind you.
That acknowledgement means so muchto us, leaving even in divorce.
I mean and, and, and like evenmiscarriage, I remember when I had a
miscarriage, I just wanted to hide away.
I, I judged myself.
I was like, what's wrong with me?
Why can't I.
Why did this happen to me?
I, you know, I'm never going tobe a mother and I don't mind can
(43:06):
play the craziest tricks on you.
Yeah, it's super real.
So, yeah, it's that supportsystem and the people around you
that help you to help yourself.
Initially.
And so.
Yeah.
And it sounds like you're sayinglike, it's okay through all of that.
(43:27):
If somebody isn't helping you in the rightway to ask for how you want to be helped
and also to say like, I don't know howyou, how I want you to help me, but I
just need you to check on me right now.
And that might change in a couple ofweeks and then I'll ask for something
else and you have to be brave in that.
And that's part of like youaccepting the self help, right?
It's part of you accepting that you are.
(43:47):
Empower of moving through that griefand even though you're feeling hard
and in some moments, you just want tocrawl in the dark and hide some moments.
You want to be out andplaying all of that's okay.
And you can be in control of thatand ask for, I mean, you're not in
control of the emotion necessarily,but you can guide yourself through it.
You can support yourself through it.
And that's all okay to do, even if you'regoing through a divorce and nobody wanted
(44:08):
you to get divorced or it's, you know,there's all this other shame around it.
Yes.
That associates it with divorce.
Yes.
I, I know that.
was a reality for me as well at onepoint when I was way back in my twenties.
And I did feel like, Oh, I don'tthink I'll ever find anybody to
spend the rest of my life with.
(44:28):
I don't think I'll findanybody to love me.
You know, I had those thoughts goingthrough me and through my mind and I
thought I felt like any the sore thumb,the one person sticking out there,
you know, when, with all the othercouples and the people that I knew
and then the people that I was with,you know, it's like, okay, everybody's
getting married or everybody my ageis either getting married, settling
(44:50):
down, having kids, whatever it is.
And here I am just experiencingthis whole rejection and is there
anything ever going to be for me?
You know, so all of that, that came brief,that came with that really did make me
feel lonely and alienated in so many ways.
(45:10):
But it also, I always like to pull that.
glimmer of hope or that silver liningout of any cloud that is over me.
And it also pushed me, that experiencepushed me into a space of self discovery.
It pushed me into a spaceof where I started trying
(45:31):
to find ways to help myself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Silver linings.
Are so good.
It's hard to find them throughoutthis, but they are always there.
Right?
Like always a yeah.
And I feel like the one of the thingsthat I've learned through divorce and
talking to everybody on this on thepodcast is that growth is necessary
(45:51):
to get through the rebuilding part.
After divorce, because no matter what,like, even if it's just, you just were
married for a year, not just you weremarried for a year and you're changing,
you have to, at the very least growinto what you want this new space to be.
Right.
So there's a time there's incrementalamounts and large amounts, but growth
has to be what you need to move forward.
Yes.
And you know, something interestingthat kind of came up for me as well,
(46:15):
which I, I dabble with a lot in my mind.
And especially when I getall these crazy thoughts is
My attachment to what could have beenwhen I start detaching myself from
what I don't have control over, Ifeel like I have so much more control.
(46:41):
I don't know if that evenmakes sense in a strange way.
I forget about, I stopped spendingtoo much time and too much thought and
energy on, Oh, if only I did this, thenthis would have happened if only I, you
know, that kind of stuff, and I stopped.
Embracing more of, okay,this happened to me.
(47:05):
It hurts.
I don't like it, but this is my realityand I want life to be beautiful.
So what am I going todo to make it beautiful?
And I'm not, every time this.
Baggage comes back to haunt me?
Okay, bye bye.
Let me put you back in yourplace where you belong.
This is Nina.
Yeah, I like that idea of, that's so good.
(47:27):
I have my partner and I have we call ourbaggage, we've named our baggage Ned.
So when he's coming, when Ned's coming inwith this huge suitcase of crap from our
past, just want to kick him out of there,but it's not always easy to do that.
It's like, It's so hard, but itis also, like you were saying,
it's profound to name it as thebaggage that's coming along.
It's not the reality.
It's not what you're here with.
(47:48):
And yeah, it's really amazing.
To think about this thoughts,this is another thing that
I play games with my mind.
Thoughts are I mean, wheredo your thoughts come from?
Sometimes I find these craziestthings in my head and I'm like,
did I intentionally think that?
Where did this come from?
Why am I thinking this in the first place?
So, I play this game with myself now.
(48:11):
Whenever I get thesethoughts, I'm like, ah.
So the thoughts are, to menow, thoughts are visitors.
Okay?
It's a guest.
This is a guest that has entered my mind.
What am I going to do with this guest?
I am going to politely say,thank you for visiting.
But we're good here.
you know and not entertain that thought,not give it any, any, any momentum
(48:33):
or not give it any importance andjust let it flow away like a wave.
Bye bye.
Let's go through these thoughts now.
Think of our thoughts as a guess.
Yes.
So you're right.
I feel like It's, it's interestingwhen I started to, I feel like I
never started to learn how emotionsand thoughts worked until after I got
(48:55):
divorced and started this healing processand so that's been super interesting.
But you're right, it's like more andmore thoughts are just reactive and
in this moment and your body knows andso it's important to, like you said,
I love that, like, invite them for asecond and be like, thanks for coming.
Appreciate you, but you don'tneed to be here anymore.
It's really good.
Really good.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
(49:15):
Ashmeeta, thank you somuch for being here today.
Everything that you've sharedis so lovely and So good.
And I feel like it will be so profoundfor our listeners to hear what you're
saying about grief and how it can connectto this loss of in relationship and
love and connection that you're having.
And so I really appreciate that.
Thank you so very much.
For our listeners, if you want tofind Ashmeeta's stuff, I'll put
it out in the show notes, but herwebsite is story you tell yourself.
(49:39):
com.
You can find her on social media at grossstory hub on Instagram and Facebook and
herself on Twitter and LinkedIn as well.
And I'll put all those,all those links out there.
Thank you so very muchfor being here today.
It has been my pleasure.
I've really enjoyed thisconversation with you.
Thank you for joining us forthe Queer Divorce Club podcast.
(50:01):
We hope that our discussions haveprovided you with valuable insights
and support throughout your journey.
If you're a member of the LGBTQIA pluscommunity and find yourself contemplating
divorce, currently going through theprocess or in the process of rebuilding
your life after divorce, we inviteyou to join the Queer Divorce Club.
Connect with others who have similarexperiences and find a sense of
(50:21):
community by visiting QueerDivorceClub.
com.
There you can join support groupstailored to your needs and connect
with individuals who understand theunique challenges you may be facing.
Before we wrap up, we'd liketo ask for your support.
If you've enjoyed our podcast and find ithelpful, please take a moment to show us
some love wherever you listen to podcasts.
Your reviews and ratingsmean the world to us.
(50:43):
They not only ensure that you nevermiss an episode, but also help others
discover our podcast for the first time.
Remember, you are notalone on this journey.
We're here to provide you with thetools, knowledge, and support you need
to live a healthy and vibrant life,both during and beyond your divorce.
And as always, remember that eachday you are doing your best for
yourself and your family, andthat's nothing short of amazing.
(51:07):
Thank you to Bungalow Heaven forproviding the music for this podcast.
We'll see you all next time.
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