October 14, 2025 • 27 mins
Portugal’s Golden Visa with Your IRA? David’s Path to Investing & Retiring Abroad
What happens when a regular gay man says “enough” to U.S. chaos and starts building a fabulous Plan B abroad? Meet David Govacker, a medical professional who leveraged a self-directed IRA to invest in a diversified fund, qualify for Portugal’s Golden Visa, and set up a life with sunshine, safety, and equality—without Trump-era stress or American price tags. If you’re exploring investing for residency and retiring abroad, this episode is your blueprint.
Top Takeaways:
- Why Portugal? LGBTQ+-affirming culture, stable politics, urban lifestyle, big airports, and easy U.S. access.
- Golden Visa 101: The €500k investment route, residency timeline, and minimal stay rules (think: ~14 days every 2 years).
- Investing via IRA: How a self-directed IRA rollover (not a taxable distribution) can fund a qualifying investment.
- Fund choice matters: Why a diversified, open-ended mutual fund (vs. private equity lockups) matched David’s risk profile.
- Logistics made simple: Paperwork, biometrics, realistic timing, and avoiding tax pitfalls with clean rollovers.
- Plan B → Peace of mind: Build optionality now so you’re not scrambling later.
- Real talk for LGBTQ+ folks: Looking for places where equality is both law and lived.
Perfect for: LGBTQ+ professionals curious about Portugal, the Golden Visa, investing for residency, and retiring abroad—without giving up financial sanity or safety.
Loved this? Share with a friend who’s Golden-Visa-curious, and subscribe for our Netherlands retirement countdown next week.
Download: Get your Happy Gay Retirement Calculator
Mentioned in this episode:
Get Your Portugal Golden Visa Here!
Get Your Portugal Golden Visa Faster Here!
Want a European passport with access to living in nearly any European country? Just click the link below to find out how.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:17):
What happens when a regulargay man decides he's done with us
chaos and ready to build afabulous plan B abroad?
Meet David Govaker, a medicalprofessional who traded anxiety over
politics, inflation and LGBTQrights for a ticket to Portuguese
sunshine, safety and equality.
This is Queer Money episode611, and we're talking with another
(00:38):
David who reveals how helanded the coveted Portuguese golden
visa using his IRA and issetting himself up for a freedom
filled life without the Trumpgenerated stress or American costs.
Welcome, David, to the show.
We're excited to have you.
Hi.
Hi there.
For our listeners and viewers,let's lay the foundation.
Why are you thinking aboutleaving the.
(01:00):
U.S. well, I would say I'm notnecessarily planning on leaving right
now.
I started looking a few monthsago for a plan B for possibly getting
a passport in another country.
I wouldn't be surprised if alarge portion of your audience weren't
on the same page.
(01:21):
Every day I listen to thenews, it seems like it gets a greater
and greater likelihood that itwon't just be a plan B.
It won't just be like a secondhome or a vacation home.
It's more likely that I wouldwant to have a presence or make someplace
else my home.
But for right now, I'm notplanning on leaving, but I want that
off ramp.
Yeah.
(01:42):
Here we have a post right nowon Instagram that's going kind of
viral for us.
And basically it's about.
We've noticed a significantshift in the, in the, the language
that our social mediafollowers are using.
Before it was, hey, if thishappens, I'm going to leave the U.S.
or someday I'm going to leavethe U.S. it was almost like I was
always like sort of future looking.
(02:03):
And we've noticed a marketshift recently in people saying,
predominantly LGBTQ peoplesaying, I've left and I'm leaving,
or I'm leaving next week, ormy husband and I just sold our home
and the next step is to get out.
And it's really striking theshift in the language that the community
is using.
So I think a lot of ourlisteners and viewers are going to
(02:23):
be able to understand withwhat you're dealing with.
There is a marked shift in theculture in America and it's really
distressing every day.
You know, many months ago,earlier this year, I was listening
to the news and it would beuncomfortable and they'd go on and
I'd sort of dismiss it.
And then we get up the nextmorning and it was more stuff that
(02:46):
I never would thought wouldhappen in America.
More stuff That I would saythis is wrong.
More stuff that I'd say thisis illegal.
More stuff that I would saythis is unconstitutional.
And, you know, after so manydays, do I really want to have all
my eggs in one basket?
Right.
Or do I want to facilitate?
(03:07):
Do I want to have availablefor myself a plan B?
Like what if it gets worse, etc.
And yeah, it's getting worse.
Yeah.
So you're.
You've become an investor in the.
The Optimizes Portugal GoldenOpportunities fund.
Before we get too much intothe specifics of that, can you tell
us a little bit about yoursearch and how you ended up landing
(03:30):
with one, choosing Portugal'sGolden Visa, but then two, going
with Optimizes Investment?
Yeah, well, you know, like Isaid, the motivation was really just
listening to the news every morning.
So I started exploring theconcept in kind of a dreamy way.
And my husband and I havetalked about having a getaway place
(03:50):
we never considered outsidethe US but we toyed with that idea
for a while.
And then I started researchingand thinking, what would it be like
if I were to actually havethat place outside the US And I started
thinking, where have I enjoyedtraveling that I might enjoy actually
staying or being?
For me, there were certainmust haves.
(04:12):
The climate and weather had tosuit me.
So that kind of ruled outplaces that were too hot and too
humid, had natural disasters,stuff like that.
It had to be a place with gayrights and marriage equality.
Those have to be solid, notjust in the law, but in the culture
of the place.
It has to be not just, youknow, written, but lived in the streets
(04:33):
every day.
I wanted an urban environment.
I live in New York City now,and I love the pace and the cultural
opportunities and the ease ofliving that I find in a major city.
I wanted a large airport,someplace that I can get into and
out of fairly easily from NewYork City while we're dreaming.
(04:54):
I wanted a place wherelanguage wouldn't be a barrier, where
I don't necessarily have to behighly proficient in the local language
to just get along every day.
So I started making a list andI talked to my husband, and his thoughts
were pretty much identical to mine.
And a couple other factorscame up.
A stable economy and a stablegovernment and an easy pathway to
(05:20):
either, like permanentresidency or citizenship and a passport.
I didn't want to have to waita long time, like a decade to make
this a reality.
So I started actually city shopping.
First I wanted to find a placewhere I wanted to live.
Vancouver was the top of the list.
We both would love to move toVancouver, but the trouble for Canada,
(05:43):
for me was that I don't wantto join the workforce.
I stopped working a few yearsago, and I'm really happy not working
for other people.
And I'm at that place in lifewhere I don't necessarily want to
go to work for a big company.
So places that require that,that didn't have some other route
to becoming a citizen, likeinvesting there.
(06:05):
So Canada just wasn't an option.
UK and Ireland were on the list.
Most of Europe was on the list.
Frankly, Malta was top of thelist for me for a while.
And then I realized that it's.
There's no direct flights fromNew York City.
And to get there it wouldtake, you know, connections.
(06:26):
And there's one, you know,single airport and living on a single
island has its limitations.
And I started reading abouthow welcome, you know, the, the folks
have been, and it wasn'tnecessarily all positive.
And then the rules changed andapparently Malta's easy citizenship
and so forth, that's now athing of the past.
(06:47):
So Malta, Malta left, andfrankly, Portugal came to the top
of the list.
When I understood the, youknow, when I kind of looked into
the what, what Portugal offersboth as a country and in their golden
visa program, for folks likeme, it was, it was a no brainer.
Gotcha.
Thank you for sharing that.
(07:07):
I'm really struck with thewords you used, that LGBTQ acceptance.
The gay marriage needs to benot only written, but lived.
And I think, you know, whenyou said that, it just kind of hit
me strong because that's whatwe've had here, right?
It's, we've had that sort ofin the law, but half the country
(07:28):
does not respect that andrefuses to live that.
And I think that's why many ofus in our community are thinking,
okay, what is my plan B ifthings continue to go the direction
that they have for the lastnine months?
And that's part of why I likeliving in New York City.
Because whether or not it'sthe law, it's living on the streets,
I feel 100% comfortable, youknow, walking down the street.
(07:50):
That may seem foolish to somefolks, but, you know, I feel really
comfortable here.
There are many cities in theUS where that's where that's the
case for me.
But you're right, it's not thewhole country.
And that's, that's worrisomebecause it seems like the, that that's
coming into question.
Not just the law part, but thecultural part.
Yeah.
100%.
(08:10):
You know, we get a lot oftrolling on our social media, and
one of the things that weconstantly hear is nobody cares if
you're gay.
Just, you know, keep it to yourself.
But that's that therein liesthe problem.
Because the minute they seeus, you know, holding hands while
we're walking down the street,that, of course, is throwing our
lifestyle in their face.
Even though you see straightcouples doing that every single day.
You give your partner a kisson the mask before they go, a peck
(08:31):
on the cheek, whatever, andthat's throwing it in their face.
And so there's always thisdichotomy of, okay, you say you accept
me, but if I actually act likea normal couple with my partner,
then of course it's aconfrontation for you.
Yeah.
And, you know, what's going onwith the cultural viewpoint about
trans folks currently in ourcountry is really concerning.
(08:52):
So, you know, I wasn't justlooking out.
Frankly, for me and peoplelike me, there's different profiles
of folks, of difference.
And if the culture I'm lookingfor is one of openness, one of inviting,
one of accepting, one ofcherishing, and one of encouraging
everybody to be, you know, tolive their whole lives, their whole
(09:13):
selves, their whole being there.
And, you know, that's whatI've experienced when I visited Portugal,
admittedly, the, you know,Lisbon, Porto, larger, larger places.
But, yeah, that's.
That's what I find works herein New York City and, you know, not
that many other places.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I appreciate that, too.
One of the things that Johnand I have noticed, and we've been
(09:34):
talking a lot about that overthis, over the last year, is it seems
to me that there is this, I'mgoing to get to the red light first,
First, I don't care who elsethey put in danger mentality going
on in the United States.
Whatever gets me ahead.
I don't care what happens toother people.
Feel like when you go to someother foreign countries, there is
(09:55):
a group consciousness.
There is this, we take care ofeach other.
We're not pushing each otherout of the way to get to the front
of the line or to get the lastwhoop, whoops, whatever it is that's
on sale.
Right.
Whereas in the United States,there is this strong push for, I
take care of me.
(10:15):
I don't care what happens toeverybody else.
And I think that's one of thethings that has kind of emboldened
some of this mentality thatwe're seeing in the United States
of, well, I'm Going to takecare of me.
If that means you lose some ofyour rights, well, I'm sorry about
that, but maybe I'm not sorryabout that.
I appreciate that's one of thethings John and I have been talking
(10:36):
a lot about.
One of the reasons why we aredoing our series of talking about
foreign countries and whatcities in those foreign countries
are great places for LGBT people.
Yes, I get that.
And that drive for personalsuccess and excelling and making
it and so forth is not a badthing in and of itself.
But when it starts to be atthe expense of other folks who really
(11:00):
are either not thought aboutor they're thought about and disregarded,
that's a problem.
I think you see that in theresults in our healthcare system.
Everybody wants, I want more care.
I want that pill.
I want that opera.
I want it all for me.
And then they wonder whyhealth insurance rates are so high.
And you look at othercountries, like Portugal.
(11:23):
Citizens in Portugal havehealth insurance provided by the
state.
If you pay a health insurancepremium, it might be about what I
would pay for one month in theUnited States that would pay for
my health care in Portugal fora year.
People see that we are all ina community, and that flavor, that
(11:43):
culture, it's just not here as much.
In the United States, it seemsmuch more tribalized into a bunch
of little tribes.
Instead of recognizing we'rereally all the same tribe, we don't
have to have an enemy to feelconnected and united.
And in the US it seems likewe've got to find an enemy to validate
(12:04):
myself, to know that I am me,to know that I am valuable, to know
that I am powerful, I have tobe in the process of somehow, you
know, vanquishing somebody,fighting somebody, opposing somebody.
It's just not that way elsewhere.
Yeah, it's just like amarketing strategy.
And that's how you get power.
Right.
You got to have an enemy, andI'm the superman for you to protect
(12:24):
you from this enemy.
Yeah.
So let's maybe get to the fund itself.
How was it that you discoveredthis pathway to getting to what you
want in.
To get to Portugal?
Yep.
I kind of shopped forcountries in Portugal, came to the
top of the list for a lot of reasons.
Then I said, okay, what.
You know, to get.
To get all this, what do I gotto do?
(12:46):
And essentially, you know, itturns out that it's, you know, kind
of completing some paperwork,and I'm filling out forms, getting
copies of my marriagecertificate and passport stuff.
Stuff like that's gathering.
Gathering Information aboutme, you know, getting a criminal
background check.
And then there's a requiredinvestment in Portugal of €500,000,
(13:10):
which, you know, may seem likea lot is a lot, but.
And so I thought, well, I dohave, you know, I do have savings
here in the United States.
Let me shop for investmentvehicle that might suit my investment
style.
Part of the reason I couldretire at the age that I did was
because I'd been kind of asaver and I always put my money in
(13:31):
the US Stock market and it'salways done well.
So I was looking for aninvestment in Portugal that would
largely be diversified inmajor companies in Portugal and in
Europe that, you know, they'reall stable.
It's not risky, it's notconcentrated in just one sector or,
or investing in like one or two.
(13:53):
I wanted that kind of safetyand diversification.
There's, there's market risk,but you know, taking that market
risk got me where I am today.
So I'm anyway, so I.
Of all the funds that werearound, most seem to be private equity
funds, hedge fund that wouldfund projects or certain sectors
of the economy.
(14:14):
They wanted me to lock myfunds up for, you know, typically
7, 8 to 10 years.
There was a, you know, 1 or 2%or more fee to get into that investment.
And then the profits werecapped at a certain percentage every
year.
And after that the fundmanagers would have a major share
(14:35):
in the profits past a certain point.
That point might be 6%.
Then I found this PortugalGolden Opportunities fund that was
diversified in major companiesin Europe and Portugal that, you
know, was an open ended mutual fund.
You can buy and sell as you please.
(14:55):
And the real advantage for mewhen I started looking into that
fund was I could actuallyinvest money that is currently in
my IRA in the United Statesand it can stay in the ira, it doesn't
have to be taken out and thenhave a distribution and taxes and
all that.
I can actually use money, myown retirement money to make that
(15:18):
investment.
And I looked around at what'shappening in the marketplace today
and what seems to be happeningto the value of the dollar, the opinion
of the United States by othercountries and other investing, the
what's going on with the Fedand interest rates and inflation
and so forth, and I realizedthat I actually should probably be
(15:42):
diversifying my investmentsinto, for example, Europe or other
places like that, that Ishould probably be doing that anyway.
So it became pretty clear tome that the major reason I need to
do this is it's actually whatI should be doing financially and
Permanent citizenship and thepathway to a passport, that's all
(16:04):
just a bonus.
I like that you came to theconclusion that way.
I mean, that makes a lot ofsense for an investor.
Yeah, definitely.
Do you mind ask if I ask?
David, is your retirement, areyour retirement assets the largest
portion of your assets?
Is this by far 40 of your money?
Is that by far?
That's the same with us.
And I think that that's one ofthe reasons why we find this fund
(16:25):
so appealing is that for mostfolks, it's either their home or
their retirement accounts.
That is their, their primarysource of assets.
And for those of us who didbuckle down and save or happen to
work for a company and madegood money because that company either
(16:45):
went public or something likethat, having a lot of money in your
retirement accounts isprobably the way for most people
that we would see getting into this.
Unless you are alreadyindependently wealthy.
Yeah, so what, let's talkabout the logistics of that a little
bit.
Because my assumption is, andcorrect me if I'm wrong, you probably
amass most of this money insort of a 401k type of account, a
(17:06):
company sponsor.
And then at this point, youprobably maybe rolled that over into
a traditional IRA or rollover.
But to actually make theinvestment into the optimized Golden
Portugal Golden OpportunitiesFund, you had to open up a self directed
ira, Is that that's correct?
Yeah, Right now I have it allat one financial institution that,
you know, they don't, theydon't have a self directed IRA operation.
(17:28):
There are other companies that do.
So, yeah, I did some shopping.
I actually asked forrecommendations from the folks at
Optimize.
They gave me a list of threeor four.
I also did my own research,tried to look for others.
The suggestions provided bythe fund seemed to be the most reliable
and very reasonable costs.
The one that I chose.
I got better rates, a betterfee structure because I was referred
(17:49):
by Optimize.
So yeah, I established a selfdirected ira, made a simple rollover
of the amount of money I needfrom my traditional IRA at, you know,
where all the other money is,just did a simple rollover to that.
All it took was filling outsome paperwork, took about three
business days.
And then once the money is inthat self directed IRA account and
(18:13):
then it's, you know, investedin the Golden Opportunities Fund.
And when it's invested there,they can verify that, yes, he has
fulfilled the requirements forthe Golden Visa program.
They have a certification of that.
It goes off and that satisfiesthe requirement.
You did not in that rolloveryou did not receive a check that
was transferred automaticallyfor you.
(18:35):
So then that should negateanybody's concern that they're creating
a taxable event.
It's all done electronically.
And the IRS.
You'll get a 5498 at the endof the tax season to confirm that
your funds have beenredeposited into an IRA account so
that the IRS knows that youdid not receive a distribution.
Correct?
Yeah, I think it's reallyimportant to make sure that, you
(18:57):
know, if I'm doing that, Idon't actually receive the check.
It's just really.
It's not only easier, it'ssimpler, and it's got a very clear,
you know, paper trail, as muchas there's paper with wire transfers.
Yeah, that's really important.
Now it's a 1099 when the moneycomes out and the 5498 when it arrives.
No, 1099R is for your.
(19:19):
Oh, you're right.
It's the distribution.
Okay, can you repeat that?
David, My husband is correct.
So was there any surprises,any concerns, any hiccups that you
maybe weren't necessarilyprepared for going into this that
maybe other people might wantto be prepared for?
The only surprise was, was,you know, how, you know, kind of
(19:40):
easy and reliable.
It was once I kind of pickedthe right fund and made the right
choices.
So I did a lot of my ownresearch, and I would encourage everybody
to do that.
So you feel like you haveturned over every rock and that what
you're doing is, you know, theright thing for you, because that's
what I did.
And so now I look and, youknow, I watch the TV in the morning
(20:02):
and I go, I have an escape route.
You know, do bring it on.
Do what you want.
Right.
And, you know, I don't have my.
My permanent residencecertificate yet.
That.
That's a process on thePortugal end.
But, yeah, that getting thatprocess started when I did the.
My only regret is I didn'tstart earlier.
But, yeah, I would definitely,you know, talk to your partner, talk
(20:25):
to other people, gatherwhatever information you might want
to do, Consult, AI, you know,listen to this show, whatever you
need to do to make yourselfwell informed and comfortable and
is what you need to do.
And not everybody's going towant the golden visa.
If you want to go worksomeplace, you know, start a company
or go to work for a company,there are many good options.
(20:45):
And I would still put Portugalprobably at or near the top of the
list.
It's just that wasn't What I needed.
Right.
No, that definitely makes alot of sense.
But what would be the triggerto say we're actually going to make
the move?
And how exactly would youmaybe start that process?
What would be your first stepor two?
Yeah, you know, I think it'skind of like the process that got
(21:07):
me here.
There wasn't one day when oneof those incredibly outrageous things
happened.
It was just the constant.
The constant flow of.
And I just listened to my mindand listened to my heart.
And at some point, it became,you know, more painful to contemplate
actually starting the processthan to continue to live with no
(21:28):
off ramp.
And I would imagine it's goingto be similar to make that decision
about actually potentiallyrelocating or spending a lot of the
year outside the US becauseone of the other things about the
Portugal opportunity, youdon't need to move to Portugal.
You don't need to spend morethan half the year there, which is
the case for most of theseother Golden Visa things and most
(21:51):
of the other citizenship things.
You have to spend a lot of time.
There's.
The Portugal Golden Visa onlyrequires that you spend, I think,
14 days every two years.
You know, would I want to takea week's vacation in Lisbon every
year?
Yeah, probably more so.
Again, it's stuff I would do anyway.
(22:12):
So, yeah.
I don't know what would be the.
I do have a feeling that assoon as the Golden Visa comes through
and I have my permanentresidence certificate, you know,
we'll probably go over for alittle while and kind of look for
the purchase of an apartmentto have as a.
That second home that we toyedabout for so long, to have a place
(22:35):
that's ours with our stuffthat we can go to whenever we want.
I'm not one of those folks whoprobably run an Airbnb out of a place
like that.
I kind of like my stuff in my place.
I would imagine investing inproperty in pretty much anywhere
in Portugal has been a reallygood investment and probably will
continue to be so, both forenjoyment and investment purposes.
(22:56):
I think as soon as thepermanent resident certificate comes
in, it'll probably be propertyshopping and then maybe kind of a
slow glide in that direction.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
The last logistical question Iwanted to tackle is, did they give
you an estimate on how long itwould take to get the residency card?
When I was doing this researchearlier this year, there were a lot
(23:19):
of concerns and complaintsthat it was taking more than a year
to do this.
My understanding is thatPortugal recognized that there was,
you Know, an opportunity forimprovement here.
And so they have, they havesped up the whole process.
One step is actually a visitto Portugal, to the offices in Portugal,
the Portuguese government, toget a biometric assessment.
(23:39):
I guess they take yourfingerprints and maybe other biometric
assessments and that's part ofthe process.
And shortly after that, youare given a two year certificate.
Know that for residents andthat two year certificate is renewable.
And then when you get out tofive years, then you actually get
your, you know, permanentresident certificate.
(23:59):
But so, yeah, that the time toget the biometric appointment is
probably the, the thing Iunderstand now it's down to a matter
of months instead of more thana year.
And so, yeah, I would imaginethat in the next few months I'll
be, I'll get the word to, youknow, make an appointment and we'll
see you, fingerprint you andget the card in production.
(24:21):
Nice.
Very cool.
And I'm very excited.
I bet.
No doubt.
I can hear it.
Trip to Portugal coming up.
I have to go to Portugal oncea week for the next couple years.
Horrible.
Twist my arm.
So for our listeners andviewers who may, what's your piece
of advice for those who arethinking in their heart and their
mind, they're thinking, Imight need a plan B, I might need
(24:42):
an off ramp.
What's your biggest piece ofadvice for them?
Yeah, start your homework now.
Talk to, you know, talk towhoever you got at home who would
be coming with you.
Because this, this Golden Visathing, you can bring more than just
your partner under the same investment.
You can bring parents, you canbring kids, stuff like that.
So, you know, if you're, ifyou're starting to look at that,
(25:04):
look at whoever else would beinvited, get their input and views,
look through your old travelphotos, think about your prior vacations,
figure out places that youhave been that you think you would
enjoy.
You know, Australia might makeit for you.
I don't want to be halfwayacross the world to get to my happy
place.
I want my happy placeaccessible to me.
(25:26):
So, yeah, figure out what youwant, take a look at your options,
check in with yourself, butdon't dally.
I can tell you from somebodywho's further through the process,
it's a hassle to get all thisstuff together.
But just keep yourself on track.
You'll be so happy.
You'll breathe so much easierwhen you're past some of the administrator.
(25:48):
Nice.
Well, David, thank you so muchfor being willing to share your personal
story.
I know that makes a lot ofpeople uncomfortable to do that.
And we appreciate you being so open.
I know our listeners andviewers would definitely appreciate
it as well.
And thank you for making thismore visible.
I'd never heard of this stuffbefore I started looking, so I know
that your audience is probablymade up of folks for whom this might
be a really good thing.
(26:09):
Don't delay.
Start checking your mind,check your heart and check what's
around you and what's available.
Do your homework and take action.
Thank you so much.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
Thank you for joining us.
Join us next week when weshare the top five places in the
Netherlands for gays to retire.
And in two weeks we're goingto share the specifics of how you
(26:30):
can take advantage of the sametools and resources that David did
to get the Portuguese golden visa.
If you love this episode,please like subscribe and share it
with your friends who alsowant to retire abroad.
And until next time.
What happens when a regulargay man decides he's done with us
chaos and ready to build afabulous plan B abroad?
Meet David Govaker, a medicalprofessional who traded anxiety over
politics, inflation and LGBTQrights for a ticket to Portuguese
sunshine, safety and equality.
This is Queer Money episode611, and we're talking with another
(00:38):
David who reveals how helanded the coveted Portuguese golden
visa using his IRA and issetting himself up for a freedom
filled life without the Trumpgenerated stress or American costs.
Welcome, David, to the show.
We're excited to have you.
Hi.
Hi there.
For our listeners and viewers,let's lay the foundation.
Why are you thinking aboutleaving the.
(01:00):
U.S. well, I would say I'm notnecessarily planning on leaving right
now.
I started looking a few monthsago for a plan B for possibly getting
a passport in another country.
I wouldn't be surprised if alarge portion of your audience weren't
on the same page.
(01:21):
Every day I listen to thenews, it seems like it gets a greater
and greater likelihood that itwon't just be a plan B.
It won't just be like a secondhome or a vacation home.
It's more likely that I wouldwant to have a presence or make someplace
else my home.
But for right now, I'm notplanning on leaving, but I want that
off ramp.
Yeah.
(01:42):
Here we have a post right nowon Instagram that's going kind of
viral for us.
And basically it's about.
We've noticed a significantshift in the, in the, the language
that our social mediafollowers are using.
Before it was, hey, if thishappens, I'm going to leave the U.S.
or someday I'm going to leavethe U.S. it was almost like I was
always like sort of future looking.
(02:03):
And we've noticed a marketshift recently in people saying,
predominantly LGBTQ peoplesaying, I've left and I'm leaving,
or I'm leaving next week, ormy husband and I just sold our home
and the next step is to get out.
And it's really striking theshift in the language that the community
is using.
So I think a lot of ourlisteners and viewers are going to
(02:23):
be able to understand withwhat you're dealing with.
There is a marked shift in theculture in America and it's really
distressing every day.
You know, many months ago,earlier this year, I was listening
to the news and it would beuncomfortable and they'd go on and
I'd sort of dismiss it.
And then we get up the nextmorning and it was more stuff that
(02:46):
I never would thought wouldhappen in America.
More stuff That I would saythis is wrong.
More stuff that I'd say thisis illegal.
More stuff that I would saythis is unconstitutional.
And, you know, after so manydays, do I really want to have all
my eggs in one basket?
Right.
Or do I want to facilitate?
(03:07):
Do I want to have availablefor myself a plan B?
Like what if it gets worse, etc.
And yeah, it's getting worse.
Yeah.
So you're.
You've become an investor in the.
The Optimizes Portugal GoldenOpportunities fund.
Before we get too much intothe specifics of that, can you tell
us a little bit about yoursearch and how you ended up landing
(03:30):
with one, choosing Portugal'sGolden Visa, but then two, going
with Optimizes Investment?
Yeah, well, you know, like Isaid, the motivation was really just
listening to the news every morning.
So I started exploring theconcept in kind of a dreamy way.
And my husband and I havetalked about having a getaway place
(03:50):
we never considered outsidethe US but we toyed with that idea
for a while.
And then I started researchingand thinking, what would it be like
if I were to actually havethat place outside the US And I started
thinking, where have I enjoyedtraveling that I might enjoy actually
staying or being?
For me, there were certainmust haves.
(04:12):
The climate and weather had tosuit me.
So that kind of ruled outplaces that were too hot and too
humid, had natural disasters,stuff like that.
It had to be a place with gayrights and marriage equality.
Those have to be solid, notjust in the law, but in the culture
of the place.
It has to be not just, youknow, written, but lived in the streets
(04:33):
every day.
I wanted an urban environment.
I live in New York City now,and I love the pace and the cultural
opportunities and the ease ofliving that I find in a major city.
I wanted a large airport,someplace that I can get into and
out of fairly easily from NewYork City while we're dreaming.
(04:54):
I wanted a place wherelanguage wouldn't be a barrier, where
I don't necessarily have to behighly proficient in the local language
to just get along every day.
So I started making a list andI talked to my husband, and his thoughts
were pretty much identical to mine.
And a couple other factorscame up.
A stable economy and a stablegovernment and an easy pathway to
(05:20):
either, like permanentresidency or citizenship and a passport.
I didn't want to have to waita long time, like a decade to make
this a reality.
So I started actually city shopping.
First I wanted to find a placewhere I wanted to live.
Vancouver was the top of the list.
We both would love to move toVancouver, but the trouble for Canada,
(05:43):
for me was that I don't wantto join the workforce.
I stopped working a few yearsago, and I'm really happy not working
for other people.
And I'm at that place in lifewhere I don't necessarily want to
go to work for a big company.
So places that require that,that didn't have some other route
to becoming a citizen, likeinvesting there.
(06:05):
So Canada just wasn't an option.
UK and Ireland were on the list.
Most of Europe was on the list.
Frankly, Malta was top of thelist for me for a while.
And then I realized that it's.
There's no direct flights fromNew York City.
And to get there it wouldtake, you know, connections.
(06:26):
And there's one, you know,single airport and living on a single
island has its limitations.
And I started reading abouthow welcome, you know, the, the folks
have been, and it wasn'tnecessarily all positive.
And then the rules changed andapparently Malta's easy citizenship
and so forth, that's now athing of the past.
(06:47):
So Malta, Malta left, andfrankly, Portugal came to the top
of the list.
When I understood the, youknow, when I kind of looked into
the what, what Portugal offersboth as a country and in their golden
visa program, for folks likeme, it was, it was a no brainer.
Gotcha.
Thank you for sharing that.
(07:07):
I'm really struck with thewords you used, that LGBTQ acceptance.
The gay marriage needs to benot only written, but lived.
And I think, you know, whenyou said that, it just kind of hit
me strong because that's whatwe've had here, right?
It's, we've had that sort ofin the law, but half the country
(07:28):
does not respect that andrefuses to live that.
And I think that's why many ofus in our community are thinking,
okay, what is my plan B ifthings continue to go the direction
that they have for the lastnine months?
And that's part of why I likeliving in New York City.
Because whether or not it'sthe law, it's living on the streets,
I feel 100% comfortable, youknow, walking down the street.
(07:50):
That may seem foolish to somefolks, but, you know, I feel really
comfortable here.
There are many cities in theUS where that's where that's the
case for me.
But you're right, it's not thewhole country.
And that's, that's worrisomebecause it seems like the, that that's
coming into question.
Not just the law part, but thecultural part.
Yeah.
100%.
(08:10):
You know, we get a lot oftrolling on our social media, and
one of the things that weconstantly hear is nobody cares if
you're gay.
Just, you know, keep it to yourself.
But that's that therein liesthe problem.
Because the minute they seeus, you know, holding hands while
we're walking down the street,that, of course, is throwing our
lifestyle in their face.
Even though you see straightcouples doing that every single day.
You give your partner a kisson the mask before they go, a peck
(08:31):
on the cheek, whatever, andthat's throwing it in their face.
And so there's always thisdichotomy of, okay, you say you accept
me, but if I actually act likea normal couple with my partner,
then of course it's aconfrontation for you.
Yeah.
And, you know, what's going onwith the cultural viewpoint about
trans folks currently in ourcountry is really concerning.
(08:52):
So, you know, I wasn't justlooking out.
Frankly, for me and peoplelike me, there's different profiles
of folks, of difference.
And if the culture I'm lookingfor is one of openness, one of inviting,
one of accepting, one ofcherishing, and one of encouraging
everybody to be, you know, tolive their whole lives, their whole
(09:13):
selves, their whole being there.
And, you know, that's whatI've experienced when I visited Portugal,
admittedly, the, you know,Lisbon, Porto, larger, larger places.
But, yeah, that's.
That's what I find works herein New York City and, you know, not
that many other places.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I appreciate that, too.
One of the things that Johnand I have noticed, and we've been
(09:34):
talking a lot about that overthis, over the last year, is it seems
to me that there is this, I'mgoing to get to the red light first,
First, I don't care who elsethey put in danger mentality going
on in the United States.
Whatever gets me ahead.
I don't care what happens toother people.
Feel like when you go to someother foreign countries, there is
(09:55):
a group consciousness.
There is this, we take care ofeach other.
We're not pushing each otherout of the way to get to the front
of the line or to get the lastwhoop, whoops, whatever it is that's
on sale.
Right.
Whereas in the United States,there is this strong push for, I
take care of me.
(10:15):
I don't care what happens toeverybody else.
And I think that's one of thethings that has kind of emboldened
some of this mentality thatwe're seeing in the United States
of, well, I'm Going to takecare of me.
If that means you lose some ofyour rights, well, I'm sorry about
that, but maybe I'm not sorryabout that.
I appreciate that's one of thethings John and I have been talking
(10:36):
a lot about.
One of the reasons why we aredoing our series of talking about
foreign countries and whatcities in those foreign countries
are great places for LGBT people.
Yes, I get that.
And that drive for personalsuccess and excelling and making
it and so forth is not a badthing in and of itself.
But when it starts to be atthe expense of other folks who really
(11:00):
are either not thought aboutor they're thought about and disregarded,
that's a problem.
I think you see that in theresults in our healthcare system.
Everybody wants, I want more care.
I want that pill.
I want that opera.
I want it all for me.
And then they wonder whyhealth insurance rates are so high.
And you look at othercountries, like Portugal.
(11:23):
Citizens in Portugal havehealth insurance provided by the
state.
If you pay a health insurancepremium, it might be about what I
would pay for one month in theUnited States that would pay for
my health care in Portugal fora year.
People see that we are all ina community, and that flavor, that
(11:43):
culture, it's just not here as much.
In the United States, it seemsmuch more tribalized into a bunch
of little tribes.
Instead of recognizing we'rereally all the same tribe, we don't
have to have an enemy to feelconnected and united.
And in the US it seems likewe've got to find an enemy to validate
(12:04):
myself, to know that I am me,to know that I am valuable, to know
that I am powerful, I have tobe in the process of somehow, you
know, vanquishing somebody,fighting somebody, opposing somebody.
It's just not that way elsewhere.
Yeah, it's just like amarketing strategy.
And that's how you get power.
Right.
You got to have an enemy, andI'm the superman for you to protect
(12:24):
you from this enemy.
Yeah.
So let's maybe get to the fund itself.
How was it that you discoveredthis pathway to getting to what you
want in.
To get to Portugal?
Yep.
I kind of shopped forcountries in Portugal, came to the
top of the list for a lot of reasons.
Then I said, okay, what.
You know, to get.
To get all this, what do I gotto do?
(12:46):
And essentially, you know, itturns out that it's, you know, kind
of completing some paperwork,and I'm filling out forms, getting
copies of my marriagecertificate and passport stuff.
Stuff like that's gathering.
Gathering Information aboutme, you know, getting a criminal
background check.
And then there's a requiredinvestment in Portugal of €500,000,
(13:10):
which, you know, may seem likea lot is a lot, but.
And so I thought, well, I dohave, you know, I do have savings
here in the United States.
Let me shop for investmentvehicle that might suit my investment
style.
Part of the reason I couldretire at the age that I did was
because I'd been kind of asaver and I always put my money in
(13:31):
the US Stock market and it'salways done well.
So I was looking for aninvestment in Portugal that would
largely be diversified inmajor companies in Portugal and in
Europe that, you know, they'reall stable.
It's not risky, it's notconcentrated in just one sector or,
or investing in like one or two.
(13:53):
I wanted that kind of safetyand diversification.
There's, there's market risk,but you know, taking that market
risk got me where I am today.
So I'm anyway, so I.
Of all the funds that werearound, most seem to be private equity
funds, hedge fund that wouldfund projects or certain sectors
of the economy.
(14:14):
They wanted me to lock myfunds up for, you know, typically
7, 8 to 10 years.
There was a, you know, 1 or 2%or more fee to get into that investment.
And then the profits werecapped at a certain percentage every
year.
And after that the fundmanagers would have a major share
(14:35):
in the profits past a certain point.
That point might be 6%.
Then I found this PortugalGolden Opportunities fund that was
diversified in major companiesin Europe and Portugal that, you
know, was an open ended mutual fund.
You can buy and sell as you please.
(14:55):
And the real advantage for mewhen I started looking into that
fund was I could actuallyinvest money that is currently in
my IRA in the United Statesand it can stay in the ira, it doesn't
have to be taken out and thenhave a distribution and taxes and
all that.
I can actually use money, myown retirement money to make that
(15:18):
investment.
And I looked around at what'shappening in the marketplace today
and what seems to be happeningto the value of the dollar, the opinion
of the United States by othercountries and other investing, the
what's going on with the Fedand interest rates and inflation
and so forth, and I realizedthat I actually should probably be
(15:42):
diversifying my investmentsinto, for example, Europe or other
places like that, that Ishould probably be doing that anyway.
So it became pretty clear tome that the major reason I need to
do this is it's actually whatI should be doing financially and
Permanent citizenship and thepathway to a passport, that's all
(16:04):
just a bonus.
I like that you came to theconclusion that way.
I mean, that makes a lot ofsense for an investor.
Yeah, definitely.
Do you mind ask if I ask?
David, is your retirement, areyour retirement assets the largest
portion of your assets?
Is this by far 40 of your money?
Is that by far?
That's the same with us.
And I think that that's one ofthe reasons why we find this fund
(16:25):
so appealing is that for mostfolks, it's either their home or
their retirement accounts.
That is their, their primarysource of assets.
And for those of us who didbuckle down and save or happen to
work for a company and madegood money because that company either
(16:45):
went public or something likethat, having a lot of money in your
retirement accounts isprobably the way for most people
that we would see getting into this.
Unless you are alreadyindependently wealthy.
Yeah, so what, let's talkabout the logistics of that a little
bit.
Because my assumption is, andcorrect me if I'm wrong, you probably
amass most of this money insort of a 401k type of account, a
(17:06):
company sponsor.
And then at this point, youprobably maybe rolled that over into
a traditional IRA or rollover.
But to actually make theinvestment into the optimized Golden
Portugal Golden OpportunitiesFund, you had to open up a self directed
ira, Is that that's correct?
Yeah, Right now I have it allat one financial institution that,
you know, they don't, theydon't have a self directed IRA operation.
(17:28):
There are other companies that do.
So, yeah, I did some shopping.
I actually asked forrecommendations from the folks at
Optimize.
They gave me a list of threeor four.
I also did my own research,tried to look for others.
The suggestions provided bythe fund seemed to be the most reliable
and very reasonable costs.
The one that I chose.
I got better rates, a betterfee structure because I was referred
(17:49):
by Optimize.
So yeah, I established a selfdirected ira, made a simple rollover
of the amount of money I needfrom my traditional IRA at, you know,
where all the other money is,just did a simple rollover to that.
All it took was filling outsome paperwork, took about three
business days.
And then once the money is inthat self directed IRA account and
(18:13):
then it's, you know, investedin the Golden Opportunities Fund.
And when it's invested there,they can verify that, yes, he has
fulfilled the requirements forthe Golden Visa program.
They have a certification of that.
It goes off and that satisfiesthe requirement.
You did not in that rolloveryou did not receive a check that
was transferred automaticallyfor you.
(18:35):
So then that should negateanybody's concern that they're creating
a taxable event.
It's all done electronically.
And the IRS.
You'll get a 5498 at the endof the tax season to confirm that
your funds have beenredeposited into an IRA account so
that the IRS knows that youdid not receive a distribution.
Correct?
Yeah, I think it's reallyimportant to make sure that, you
(18:57):
know, if I'm doing that, Idon't actually receive the check.
It's just really.
It's not only easier, it'ssimpler, and it's got a very clear,
you know, paper trail, as muchas there's paper with wire transfers.
Yeah, that's really important.
Now it's a 1099 when the moneycomes out and the 5498 when it arrives.
No, 1099R is for your.
(19:19):
Oh, you're right.
It's the distribution.
Okay, can you repeat that?
David, My husband is correct.
So was there any surprises,any concerns, any hiccups that you
maybe weren't necessarilyprepared for going into this that
maybe other people might wantto be prepared for?
The only surprise was, was,you know, how, you know, kind of
(19:40):
easy and reliable.
It was once I kind of pickedthe right fund and made the right
choices.
So I did a lot of my ownresearch, and I would encourage everybody
to do that.
So you feel like you haveturned over every rock and that what
you're doing is, you know, theright thing for you, because that's
what I did.
And so now I look and, youknow, I watch the TV in the morning
(20:02):
and I go, I have an escape route.
You know, do bring it on.
Do what you want.
Right.
And, you know, I don't have my.
My permanent residencecertificate yet.
That.
That's a process on thePortugal end.
But, yeah, that getting thatprocess started when I did the.
My only regret is I didn'tstart earlier.
But, yeah, I would definitely,you know, talk to your partner, talk
(20:25):
to other people, gatherwhatever information you might want
to do, Consult, AI, you know,listen to this show, whatever you
need to do to make yourselfwell informed and comfortable and
is what you need to do.
And not everybody's going towant the golden visa.
If you want to go worksomeplace, you know, start a company
or go to work for a company,there are many good options.
(20:45):
And I would still put Portugalprobably at or near the top of the
list.
It's just that wasn't What I needed.
Right.
No, that definitely makes alot of sense.
But what would be the triggerto say we're actually going to make
the move?
And how exactly would youmaybe start that process?
What would be your first stepor two?
Yeah, you know, I think it'skind of like the process that got
(21:07):
me here.
There wasn't one day when oneof those incredibly outrageous things
happened.
It was just the constant.
The constant flow of.
And I just listened to my mindand listened to my heart.
And at some point, it became,you know, more painful to contemplate
actually starting the processthan to continue to live with no
(21:28):
off ramp.
And I would imagine it's goingto be similar to make that decision
about actually potentiallyrelocating or spending a lot of the
year outside the US becauseone of the other things about the
Portugal opportunity, youdon't need to move to Portugal.
You don't need to spend morethan half the year there, which is
the case for most of theseother Golden Visa things and most
(21:51):
of the other citizenship things.
You have to spend a lot of time.
There's.
The Portugal Golden Visa onlyrequires that you spend, I think,
14 days every two years.
You know, would I want to takea week's vacation in Lisbon every
year?
Yeah, probably more so.
Again, it's stuff I would do anyway.
(22:12):
So, yeah.
I don't know what would be the.
I do have a feeling that assoon as the Golden Visa comes through
and I have my permanentresidence certificate, you know,
we'll probably go over for alittle while and kind of look for
the purchase of an apartmentto have as a.
That second home that we toyedabout for so long, to have a place
(22:35):
that's ours with our stuffthat we can go to whenever we want.
I'm not one of those folks whoprobably run an Airbnb out of a place
like that.
I kind of like my stuff in my place.
I would imagine investing inproperty in pretty much anywhere
in Portugal has been a reallygood investment and probably will
continue to be so, both forenjoyment and investment purposes.
(22:56):
I think as soon as thepermanent resident certificate comes
in, it'll probably be propertyshopping and then maybe kind of a
slow glide in that direction.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
The last logistical question Iwanted to tackle is, did they give
you an estimate on how long itwould take to get the residency card?
When I was doing this researchearlier this year, there were a lot
(23:19):
of concerns and complaintsthat it was taking more than a year
to do this.
My understanding is thatPortugal recognized that there was,
you Know, an opportunity forimprovement here.
And so they have, they havesped up the whole process.
One step is actually a visitto Portugal, to the offices in Portugal,
the Portuguese government, toget a biometric assessment.
(23:39):
I guess they take yourfingerprints and maybe other biometric
assessments and that's part ofthe process.
And shortly after that, youare given a two year certificate.
Know that for residents andthat two year certificate is renewable.
And then when you get out tofive years, then you actually get
your, you know, permanentresident certificate.
(23:59):
But so, yeah, that the time toget the biometric appointment is
probably the, the thing Iunderstand now it's down to a matter
of months instead of more thana year.
And so, yeah, I would imaginethat in the next few months I'll
be, I'll get the word to, youknow, make an appointment and we'll
see you, fingerprint you andget the card in production.
(24:21):
Nice.
Very cool.
And I'm very excited.
I bet.
No doubt.
I can hear it.
Trip to Portugal coming up.
I have to go to Portugal oncea week for the next couple years.
Horrible.
Twist my arm.
So for our listeners andviewers who may, what's your piece
of advice for those who arethinking in their heart and their
mind, they're thinking, Imight need a plan B, I might need
(24:42):
an off ramp.
What's your biggest piece ofadvice for them?
Yeah, start your homework now.
Talk to, you know, talk towhoever you got at home who would
be coming with you.
Because this, this Golden Visathing, you can bring more than just
your partner under the same investment.
You can bring parents, you canbring kids, stuff like that.
So, you know, if you're, ifyou're starting to look at that,
(25:04):
look at whoever else would beinvited, get their input and views,
look through your old travelphotos, think about your prior vacations,
figure out places that youhave been that you think you would
enjoy.
You know, Australia might makeit for you.
I don't want to be halfwayacross the world to get to my happy
place.
I want my happy placeaccessible to me.
(25:26):
So, yeah, figure out what youwant, take a look at your options,
check in with yourself, butdon't dally.
I can tell you from somebodywho's further through the process,
it's a hassle to get all thisstuff together.
But just keep yourself on track.
You'll be so happy.
You'll breathe so much easierwhen you're past some of the administrator.
(25:48):
Nice.
Well, David, thank you so muchfor being willing to share your personal
story.
I know that makes a lot ofpeople uncomfortable to do that.
And we appreciate you being so open.
I know our listeners andviewers would definitely appreciate
it as well.
And thank you for making thismore visible.
I'd never heard of this stuffbefore I started looking, so I know
that your audience is probablymade up of folks for whom this might
be a really good thing.
(26:09):
Don't delay.
Start checking your mind,check your heart and check what's
around you and what's available.
Do your homework and take action.
Thank you so much.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
Thank you for joining us.
Join us next week when weshare the top five places in the
Netherlands for gays to retire.
And in two weeks we're goingto share the specifics of how you
(26:30):
can take advantage of the sametools and resources that David did
to get the Portuguese golden visa.
If you love this episode,please like subscribe and share it
with your friends who alsowant to retire abroad.
And until next time.
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