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October 6, 2025 51 mins

Todd Nauck - 

Here’s something you didn’t know about Todd Nauck; he’s got a secret identity. True! No, I’m not gonna tell you what it is, then it wouldn’t be a secret! But I will tell you this; it involves a costume. No, not a superhero costume! It’s a costume from a play. No, I’m not gonna tell you what play, that would give it away! Okay, it’s from ‘Les Mis.”

 

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Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Whichever Todd you got.
Yeah.
Going, you going to do the thing?
He's running downstairs.
He has a lovely studio- I'll fix you in post.
Yeah, he'll fix, he'll fix everything in post.
I didn't really talk to you about this a lot because Doug and I have been kind of on a little hiatus.
Can you hear me okay?
Yes, yes.
I was just u- upping my volume for my, my earbuds there.

(00:27):
Can you hear me good?
You can hear?
Yep.
Says he he can hear.
And you hear him good, right?
Yep.
All right, good.
So we've had a little time off and I guess I'm a little rusty coming in and remembering what things we gotta do.
But, um, I wanted to ask you, this is all, um, audio, but Doug does take clips from the video to put, to, to promote the show.

(00:50):
Is that cool with you?
Uh, yes, absolutely.
Yes.
You look great, by the way.
Ah.
Thank you.
I, I, I, I, I, I tried to clean up as much as I could.
I missed the shave, but took care of everything else.
I shave, I go for a massage every, every month and, uh, and I'm, I'm friends with the massage therapist and I always, that's the only time I shave- Uh-huh.

(01:11):
is when I'm gonna go see Sarah so that my face is clean and then after that I usually try to go for a l- a little scruff, a little something.
Yeah.
Um, it's good to see you.
Yeah, it's great to see you as well.
The, the other thing that I don't think I told you is you have, uh, carte blanche here.
If you say something and later, uh, even in the moment if you say, "Oh, I shouldn't have said that," cut it right out.

(01:35):
If you say something and later on you're thinking, "You know, maybe I should've said that differently," or something, let us know.
We cut everything right out.
Everybody gets a chance to do it.
And if you would like us to send you the episode before we post it, we'll do that too.
Okay.
So that you can hear it and then that way
'Cause I've been in situations and I've got a big mouth.
And I, you know, I've said some things and I g- I went, "Oh, did I?"

(01:59):
You know, "Does that come off wrong?
I, it wasn't what I meant, but it's how it goes."
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, so, so please know that this is a really safe space for creators, for anybody to say whatever they want and if you rethink it later, it, we can pull it right out.
Ah, sounds great.

(02:19):
Appreciate that.
Um, what did Brit- Brittany said something about, uh, Tom King.
She said, "Oh, he's so busy with all his Hollywood stuff."
And afterwards she said, "Hey, can we pull that out?
I don't think he wants people to know he's got Hollywood stuff."
And I went, "Okay, but I'm gonna tell everyone I talk to."
.0000000000291So, uh

(02:39):
Um, uh, but yeah, just feel, feel free to relax, have a good chat, have a good time.
I, I do want, in the beginning here, because I don't feel like I'm
We could come in at any time.
Yeah.
But, um, I feel like I dumped a lot of stuff on you the other day.
And mostly I really felt bad because I said, "I don't wanna hurt your feelings," and then I went ahead and told you about Eddie being

(03:07):
And you know what?
It wasn't, it wasn't, um, it wasn't that he didn't like your artwork, 'cause we both loved it.
It was him being, probably being an editor and thinking, "Oh, what are we gonna do?"
But, man your samples were just so beautiful.
I was like, "This is the guy.
We're done.

(03:27):
Let's be done."
And then Eddie said, "Well, let me talk it over with Mike."
And, and I, and I had already not trusted Eddie by that time.
Mm-hmm.
So I, everything he did I, I didn't
So I'm sorry.
If you're, uh, if it hurt your feelings, I, I, I love you.
Thanks.
The feeling is mutual.
Uh, my feelings were not hurt.

(03:48):
Um, it was, it s- it was good to hear your side of it and, um, and to kind of put some more of that puzzle together just to kind of understand a bit better.
Um, so, uh, it, it, um, yeah.
So I, I, I
Please know that I, I, I'm okay.
I'm fine.
And there's no hard feelings or ill will or, or, I mean

(04:09):
It just helps flesh out the story a little bit more, puts a few more pieces of the puzzle together, but doesn't really change who I am or who I am moving forward or my relationship with you or anyone else.
So- And, and- But I appre- do appreciate you being so thoughtful.
That's one thing I appreciate from you.
Well, I needed to
I also needed to really distance myself, 'cause I was, I was so sad.

(04:29):
I mean- Mm-hmm.
really grieved.
I had gotten so excited for this project.
Yeah.
And when, when I realized it was just kind of, kind of so much anxiety was being put into my life and- Hmm.
we're comic book creators.
We shouldn't have that.
And I thought, "This guy is, he's, he's a, um"
What's the word that Mark DeMadaissoi says to me is he's toxic.

(04:51):
Hmm.
And, and it was at that time, that's exactly how I was feeling.
So I needed to- Yeah.
get away.
And so that meant also that I didn't really talk to you or discuss it with you or, or say anything, but the, the idea of us working together and doing that, that was a dream.
Hmm.
And I had to, I had to protect myself.
So, um- Of course.
And the other thing is, I don't know how much you wanna s- say about this when we get really started.

(05:19):
Uh, is, you mentioned being a different kind of creator and collaborator now.
I remember talking with you back in the day, and I knew you were that guy back then.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know if you knew you were that guy back then.
I don't think I did.
But you said that working with Claremont, did you, did you develop a relationship, uh, with Chris and a working relationship with him?

(05:44):
Not as much, uh, it was more the editor, uh, pushing me.
Yeah, my editor, Daniel Ketchum, who was the editor of Night Crawler.
'Cause Chris surprisingly wrote
Nightcrawler in Marvel style.
I was expecting these really dense, verbose scripts that I had heard rumors of for, for years, so that's what I was expecting.
And I get the first issue and it's written in a very sparse Marvel style, so I was just drawing just the, the beats that he had written down.

(06:12):
And my editor said, "No, Todd, give me more.
Take this
Don't just give me what Chris has written down.
Give me more.
You now tell me the story.
Take these relationships that you know.
You've read Chris Claremont's comics.
That's what you grew up on."
Yeah.
"You know how Storm and Nightcrawler are gonna interact, uh, in this brotherly, sisterly way.
Take that, those experiences and what you know of them and, and extrapolate that.

(06:33):
Just give me more."
And so I got to learn to become a problem solver and, and more of a storyteller than I had ever been in the past.
And it just awoke something in me.
It's like, "I love working Marvel style now.
Let me get in there and give the writer a challenge now."
It's like, "Okay, you know, script this."
I, I, I say this a lot and I, I, um, I don't want to be always repeating myself, but when I met with Mike Wieringo, I said, "Well, we're just gonna do one fill-in issue on Spider-Man," so, 'cause I was just supposed to fill in for one issue while Mark Waid took his time getting there.

(07:09):
He had other obligations.
And I said to Mike, "Who would you like to draw?"
And he said, "Is this a joke?"
He said, "Nobody's ever asked me who I want to"
I said- Mm-hmm.
"Well, won't you have more fun drawing a character that you're really excited to"
And so that's how we became friends, really.
He said- Ah.
"Oh, man, you know, you started, you started me, you know, you allowed
You opened that door and allowed me to be part of this, the, character process," and then the story.

(07:36):
I threw some ideas at him, "Oh, what if we do this?
What if we do that?"
And he loved being involved.
So now I want to work with you again even more-
to collaborate, to truly- Yeah.
collaborate and have a lot of fun, and create something that always turns out to be larger than the sum.
Totally.
Uh, that
It's a lot of fun.
Uh, and I do that with Craig on Perhapanauts- Mm-hmm.

(07:58):
so I think it would be a lot of fun to get there, uh, and do that.
So, now that we've said that, let's kind of really start.
What is the color of your current toothbrush?
It's blue.
It is a blue toothbrush.
It, it didn't
You didn't have to stop and think?
You didn't have to
Now everybody else that's listening is going, "What is my toothbrush?"

(08:18):
Probably didn't know.
Well, what helped was, I, I had ju- Um- Since I'm on the West Coast, I had just finished breakfast and wasn't sure if this was gonna be on video or not, so I had to make sure I brushed my teeth before coming on- Oh.
to join you.
So I had just seen it maybe 10 minutes before I came to join you here.
.9999999999418So it was easy to remember.
But you've also
.0000000000582You've always had nice teeth. 173 00:08:36,839.0000000000582 --> 00:08:38,250 You've al- Ah.

(08:38):
And you grew up, you grew up out there, right?
.0000000000582Uh, no, I grew up in Texas. 176 00:08:42,200.0000000000582 --> 00:08:45,328 I was born and raised in the Dallas/East Texas area.
What town?
Uh, a, a, a town, uh, about 100 miles east of Dallas called Tyler.
Okay.
That was- Yeah.
Sandy Duncan's from there, I guess.
Sandy Duncan?
Yeah.
Legendary Sandy Duncan.

(08:59):
.999999999883585Oh, good, uh- And NFL star Earl Campbell were, uh, both Tylerites.
Sweet.
Yeah.
Uh, I, I have a, a very good friend who lives in Allen, Texas, which is, uh, one of the suburbs of Da- of Dallas.
Yes.
And, uh, well, Sharon and I were just out there a little while ago and, um, got to tour around a little bit.
We weren't there for very long.

(09:19):
But I had, uh, I had always been in, um, a, a, uh, uh
Doug is gonna cut out all this, this-
hesitation.
Uh, I had always been a student of the conspiracies, the Kennedy conspiracies, and so Dennis and D'Anne took us to Dealey Plaza and, you know, there's all kinds of, uh, information and memorials and, and if you've seen- Yeah.

(09:44):
the Zapruder film and, and other things, you, you kind of know the layout of it.
Right.
But as I was standing there, there are
This is kind of morbid, isn't it?
But, uh, but I, I love it.
There are 2 Xs in the s- in the road, in the street- Hmm.
where the, the bullets hit JFK.
Oh, wow.
And Dennis kept saying to me, "You want me to run out there and you can take my picture?"

(10:08):
And I said, "There's traffic."
"Constant traffic through here."
He said, "They'll stop for me.
They'll know what I'm doing," it, that
We saw other people doing it later on and it was really funny- Wow.
that, uh, that that was that.
But it is, it is kind of eerie- Yeah.
to be standing next to the book depository and- Right.
to look up at the window where- where, uh, Lee Harvey Oswald was and to look at the grassy knoll and go, "I could see somebody else hanging out there."

(10:36):
Yeah.
Uh, I'm sorry, the whole- the- the beginning of your- .
interview has now been all about the JFK conspiracy.
I- I'm ready when we can start to get to Sasquatch from our visits up in the- If you wanna- if you wanna go there.
in- in the- in the Northwest there, you know?
Whenever I go to Seattle, I try to, you know, skip out from the- Check it out.
Emerald City Comic Con, see- see if I can do some cryptid hunting, but, uh
Sweet.
Uh- It's always no go, always no go.

(10:58):
You never- you haven't seen him.
He could be sitting- No.
right next to you, you don't know.
He could, he could.
At the- at the cons-
there's some interesting people.
I might just think it's a cosplayer, but it's actually Bigfoot.
.9999999998836Sneak it in. 231 00:11:10,319.9999999998836 --> 00:11:10,520 Yeah.
.0000000001164Uh, did you 233 00:11:12,680.0000000001164 --> 00:11:16,271.9999999998836 Uh, so you grew up in Tyler, uh, what did your mom and dad do? 234 00:11:16,819.9999999998836 --> 00:11:29,300 Let's see, my- my mom was, uh, a housewife, part-time, uh, secretary and- and would work at, uh, daycares, uh- uh, sometimes as- as me and my sisters got older and she didn't have to, you know, care for us.

(11:29):
As- as 80s kids, you know, you become very independent by the time you're in 5th grade.
Um
Right.
And then, uh, my father, he- he designed and built commercial homes- Oh, cool.
all throughout the East Texas area.
And did that give you, uh
As you were growing up with that- with that going on with him, did you, uh- did you learn any of the trade?

(11:50):
Were you a carpenter also?
I was not a carpenter, but I did like to create.
I did try to, like
I- I remember the best thing I ever built was my own Death Star playset.
Uh, you know, as- as- as a '70s child and '80s kid, I wanted the Death Star playset, you know?
I was- I was s- 6 years old when Star Wars came out, so, you know, I'm getting the action figures, seeing the Death Star playset, and it's, like, my parents couldn't afford that, they wouldn't get it for me.

(12:17):
But my dad would come home with all sorts of pieces of cardboard and styrofoam, and there were these corrugated pieces, and it was tall- it was tall enough to be the- the Death Star playset, and I took that and I cut in doors and trapped doors and drew in monitors, spent, like, the whole Saturday creating and building my own Death Star playset.
And -

(12:38):
my mom threw it out the next day.
Oh no.
I get up that morning to go play, I've got all my figures and it's gone.
I go, "Mom, where's my Death Star?"
And she goes, "What Death Star?"
I go, "The cardboard."
She goes, "Oh, I'm sorry, I threw that out."
And I was just- Oh, no.
crushed.
.9999999998836A whole day's of- worth of work, gone. 260 00:12:53,319.9999999998836 --> 00:12:53,660 But- Oh.
at least I had the- the memory of the joy of building it.
Building it was as much fun, I think, as any adventure I could have had there.

(12:59):
Sure.
And the- and the feeling of accomplishment, of- Mm-hmm.
.0000000001164"I made this- I made this work, I made this look like what I wanted it to look like." 266 00:13:07,680.0000000001164 --> 00:13:08,020 Mm-hmm.
That's great.
So you were creative right from the get-go, uh, drawing, c- constantly drawing, crayons, coloring, everything Earliest memories are of drawing.
all of this.
Absolutely.
Yep, yep.

(13:20):
Uh, and you said you have 2 sisters.
Older, younger?
Uh, both are younger.
One's 2 years younger, almost 2 years younger, and the, uh, other is 6 years younger.
Wow.
Uh, so older brother, protective, you the- you're the- the hero- the hero in the house?
Um, I was probably more the anti-hero.
I- I- I think back, uh, of my growing up as, like, I could have been such a better brother to my sisters.

(13:42):
I mean, I'm sure I had some hero moments but, you know, as siblings, you bicker, you- you fight, you- you- you- you- you get on each other's nerves.
And, uh, fortunately, me and my sisters are great friends now and I'm very thankful for that.
Uh, but looking back, I just cringe at how
Uh, I mean, it's easy for me to see all my faults and failures, but, uh, but I do have great love for my sisters, for sure.
We all do that.

(14:03):
Don't- don't beat yourself up.
I- I- I'm, uh, a year and a half older, ab- about 2 years older than my brother and, uh, you know, when I look back, I was a bully.
I was- Mm.
.0000000001164I was just that way. 289 00:14:16,459.0000000001164 --> 00:14:29,920.0000000001164 And then somewhere in about 8th or 9th grade, something switched with me, I think because my friend's older brother treated me and Kevin better. 290 00:14:29,920.0000000001164 --> 00:14:30,350 Hmm.

(14:30):
.0000000001164I- I went over to Kevin's house, I would be there all the time, and Kevin's older brother, John, just treated me with respect. 292 00:14:36,660.0000000001164 --> 00:14:40,220 He was nice to me, and I went, "Oh, brothers can be that too?
I'll have to try that out at home."
Oh.
And- and of course my brother responded to nicer Todd-
and, uh, and- and now we are best friends.
He is- Aw.
just one of my- one of my, uh, closest friends and allies and- and partners in life.

(14:55):
Your siblings- Mm.
you know, as, uh, we lost our parents a few years ago, um, you realize that you've taken this journey together, you're gonna be partners, uh, in this crazy wild adventure.
Yeah.
Um, and so it's really n- it's really good when you have that, when you can- Yeah.
can look at that, look back at the crazy times and kind of put 'em aside and- and en- enjoy the- the new time.

(15:21):
Totally.
Um, so you're- w- were you always the artist in school?
.00000000011642You were always the guy that- the go-to guy? 307 00:15:27,180.00000000011642 --> 00:15:28,680.0000000001164 "Oh, Todd will draw it for us. 308 00:15:28,680.0000000001164 --> 00:15:30,060 Todd can do it."
Uh, I wasn't high school.
In elementary school and junior high, I had a lot of competition.
third grade, I was beat out as- uh, for class artist 'cause Jennifer could draw horses.
.0000000001164Oh, Jennifer. 313 00:15:41,670.0000000001164 --> 00:15:43,640 And no one wanted my space buzzards.

(15:43):
.0000000001164My space buzzards were- were- were coming in at 0, but Jennifer's horses, 100% all the way. 315 00:15:50,420.0000000001164 --> 00:16:02,096 So I remember having this deep seated rivalry, just in my own heart, thinking, "Oh Jennifer, always- always scooping me with your- your beautifully drawn horses."She's a horse girl.
She- Yeah.
she loved them, she had them.

(16:04):
You had buzzards, that's awesome.
Was that your- Space buzzards.
These were space buzzards.
.99999999988358All sorts of colors and, and, uh, crazy shapes.
Just- That's great.
.0000000001164Who do you, who do you think, what, w- were you reading comics at that early age? 324 00:16:18,516.0000000001164 --> 00:16:19,316 I was not.
Um, I, but I was watching, uh, cartoons, and I think I was probably inspired by something I saw on Space Ghost or Herculoids.

(16:26):
Prob- something Hanna-Barbera probably inspired the space buzzards.
That plus anything sci-fi 'cause of Star Wars, anything that was science-fiction related.
Mm-hmm.
.9999999998836I remember our local channel starting to air, uh, Godzilla movies from the '60s and, um, maybe into the early '70s, so I would always eat that stuff up. 330 00:16:43,935.9999999998836 --> 00:16:46,096 Rubber, you know, rubber monster movies.
Uh, so I, I wouldn't discover comics until the mid-1980s when I was, uh, 13.

(16:51):
.0000000001164We- well, there you go. 333 00:16:52,776.0000000001164 --> 00:16:54,316 I did, I was pretty much the same.
I mean, I knew they were there and I had friends who read them, but I didn't embrace them and decide, "This is gonna be my world."
.9999999998836Yeah. 336 00:17:00,915.9999999998836 --> 00:17:04,356 Until I was about 12, 12 or 13 years old.
.9999999998836Mm-hmm. 338 00:17:04,675.9999999998836 --> 00:17:08,956.0000000001164 And then I started collecting and telling my father, "Oh, they're gonna be worth something someday." 339 00:17:08,956.0000000001164 --> 00:17:11,175.99999999988358 And he'd say, "All right, okay." 340 00:17:11,175.99999999988358 --> 00:17:13,056 Um, so what was your first comic?

(17:13):
.99999999988358What was the first one that kind of grabbed you and knocked you to the ground? 342 00:17:17,255.99999999988358 --> 00:17:18,356 So easy to remember.
So this is 1984 for me, and, um, the, for me it was, uh, I, my first kind of discovering of superheroes, the first, my first superheroes were the action figures.
My parents bought me the Mego toys from the 1970s.
.99999999976717Wow. 346 00:17:31,505.99999999976717 --> 00:17:34,755.9999999997672 So I had Batman and Robin and Joker and, and Spider-Man. 347 00:17:34,755.9999999997672 --> 00:17:43,755.9999999997672 And then, um, and then in the ear- ear- mid- mid-1980s, they started making the M- Mattel was making the Marvel superheroes Secret Wars toys. 348 00:17:43,755.9999999997672 --> 00:17:52,576 So I remember getting Iron Man and, uh, and across the aisle at Target, across the aisle from the action figures, there were these polybagged comic books.

(17:52):
3, 3 packs.
And I saw they- Mm-hmm.
Oh, a Secret Wars comic?
And I started to recognize characters on the cover that I remembered from the Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends cartoon from a year or 2 prior.
The X-Men episodes of Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends blew my mind.
I wanted to know more about these characters and I saw them on the covers.
Like, there's that laser eye guy and the claw dude.

(18:13):
And, and metal man.
You know, the Cyclops, the Wolverine and Colossus.
So it's like, so I bought it.
It's like, "I gotta get this."
.9999999997672And I was hooked from page one of Secret Wars issue seven, eight and nine. 361 00:18:24,735.9999999997672 --> 00:18:28,596 Page 7 with Spider-Woman encountering the Human Torch.
It was like, "Holy shit.
What's going on?"
.00000000023283And I was hooked. 365 00:18:32,456.00000000023283 --> 00:18:39,248 And, um, that, I think probably that weekend I cut the little coupon out of my issue number 9 to subscribe to Uncanny X-Men.

(18:40):
Sweet.
Yeah.
Th- that- And I was hooked. 369 00:18:42,436.00000000023283 --> 00:18:44,316 That is, uh, a- and, and that's it.
You know, you're at that, you're just at that age where you go, "Who is this?
What is this?
.00000000023283I need to know more. 373 00:18:50,456.00000000023283 --> 00:18:51,296 I need to-" Yeah.
My, my, uh, my gateway in was my friend Garth, who, uh, had this stack of comics in his corner, 2 stacks.
Mm-hmm.
And, and one of them was easily 2 feet high and the other one was right-

(19:03):
very close to it.
Yeah.
.9999999997672And he would let me borrow, read and borrow which- whatever I wanted, which was incredibly generous of him. 380 00:19:09,735.9999999997672 --> 00:19:10,096 Yeah.
.999999999767169And I would say, "Who's this guy?" 382 00:19:12,5.999999999767169 --> 00:19:13,356 "Who's Green Lantern?"
And, and of course we did the old, um, uh, y- you know, uh, you'd look and say, "Who's this fast guy?
Oh, that's The Flash.
.00000000023283Oh, I've heard of Flash Gordon." 386 00:19:23,436.00000000023283 --> 00:19:26,716 Not Flash Gordon, The Flash.

(19:26):
Mm-hmm.
Not Flash Gordon.
2 different guys.
But, you know, your world expands and you start to, uh, absorb all this information and all these worlds and it just is, it's just so wonderful.
Mm-hmm.
Really great.
so that was, uh, that was you at about 13.
13, yeah.
What, uh, and, and so was art always on your radar as being a possible career in the future?

(19:50):
It wasn't.
I wanted to be all sorts of things.
You know, when you're 4 years old, you want to be a fireman and when I was 8 years old, I wanted to be an astronaut so I could get out there and get involved with those Star Wars and fight the Empire and everything like that.
.0000000002328Uh, but by junior high, I decided I wanted to be an actor. 400 00:20:05,956.0000000002328 --> 00:20:10,806 I started taking after-school acting classes, uh, program stuff, and, and had a lot of fun with that.
.99999999976717It helped me kind of overcome my shyness or a bulk of my shyness I should say. 402 00:20:15,275.99999999976717 --> 00:20:18,836 And, um, but I always just drew because that's what you do.

(20:18):
That's like eating and breathing and sleeping.
It's just a part of everybody's life.
Wait, it's not a part of everybody's life?
You know, every kid doesn't come home from school and start drawing?
Mm-mm.
W- what do they do with their time?
Uh, uh, wh- you have to draw.
So, I didn't really think of drawing as a career until 9th grade, a year later.
I'm in, uh, uh, in, in, uh, one of my classes and a friend of mine, uh, JD says, "Uh, Todd, you know, you're always drawing and you read"

(20:46):
You know, 'cause I'd bring my comics to school 'cause I'd read them any spare moment I had, uh, or any moment I could steal away from studies.
And, uh, you know, so I'd always have a X-Men comic with me and he goes, "Todd, you're always reading comics.
Have you ever tried to make your own comic?"
And it was just like, just like my mind-
just exploded.
It was like, "I could do that?"
I could- Yeah.
I could do that.

(21:07):
So I get home from school, take some printer paper, fold it in half, write and draw a 10-page story of my little create around character.
And when I was done, it's like, I'm
Again, like the, that, when I built my Death Star, it's like, "I made this.
This is done.
I, I made this and it was so much fun."
It's like, I knew that night, this is it.
Anything else I wanted to do, it's out the window.

(21:29):
Uh-huh.
I wanna be a comic book artist.
And, uh, that's, uh, that's probably, uh
I've, I've kinda lost my train of thought because-
as you said that, I thought of something else.
I thought of my experience doing that.
Yeah.
But if, if you are, um
I'm gonna cut all this out.
Uh-

(21:49):
if , if, uh, if you are creating something and you have it in your hands and you're done with it, and you've actually been able to put the end to it- Mm-hmm.
because my problem was always, I would do, write a story and I would never wanna finish it.
I'd go, "Oh, it goes on and on and on."
Um, so, so that's, uh, that's
The, the feeling of accomplishment.

(22:10):
The feeling of having completed something and being able to then hand it to someone else and said, "This is an extension of me."
"This is what I'm thinking.
This is what I'm dreaming of.
This is what I wanna have happen."
Uh, how, how powerful that is.
Yeah.
So, you took that energy and, uh, did you, uh, what, what schools did you apply to or where did you decide-

(22:32):
you wanted to go?
I decided I'm good enough to break in on sheer talent alone.
I applied nowhere.
I took z-
I didn't take any SAT tests.
My mom was just like freaking out when she, the- Really?
SATs had come and gone.
It's like, she goes, "You didn't
They
It's already
What, Todd, what did you do?"
It's like, "Mom, Mom, it's okay, I'm gonna be a comic book artist."

(22:53):
You don't have to go to school for that, 'cause I had heard of other artists- Mm-hmm.
This is by the late
I graduated high school in '89, so I'd alr-
I heard that people kind of breaking in just on sheer talent alone.
Sure.
.00000000023283Uh, I think like Eric Larsen, Rob Liefeld, et cetera. 467 00:23:06,360.00000000023283 --> 00:23:12,144 So I was like, these guys are superstars and they didn't go to college, so why waste my time and money doing that?
So, I graduate high school, work my part-time jobs, create my portfolio to take to conve- to, to the Dallas comic book conventions.

(23:21):
They did 3 a year.
Mm-hmm.
And I would show my artwork to editors and there'd usually be at least one Marvel editor every time, and usually it'd be Renee Witter-Statter, 'cause she was a native Texan and so she'd come out and visit- Ah.
her family, so I'd see her over and over and over again.
And, uh, so I did my first 3 or 4 c- cons, and so that's about a yea- almost a year and a half, and, you know, getting brutal critiques, just brutal.

(23:43):
I mean, I was so
I mean, e- every artist starting off, you're so bad.
It's like there's so much- I, I agree.
I, I need to learn 'cause in, in the mid-'80s, when I dec- decided to be a comic book artist, there was no
We didn't even have a comic shop in my town.
No one did what I wanted to do, so there was no one I could talk to or learn from, so I was just reading articles in Comic Scene and Marvel Age and Comics Journal.

(24:04):
And so, I just read articles and then just mimicked what I saw in the comics, so I didn't understand a lot.
So, you know, getting these brutal critiques and as one
I remember one afternoon, I'm lying on the couch watching MTV, as any Gen Xer should, waiting for my, my shift at the movie theater, uh, later that, that evening, and an Art Institute commercial comes up.
And that's when my art teacher from high school, and my mom wanted me to apply and try to get scholarships and- Mm-hmm.

(24:29):
and grants for.
And, and I just realized, "You know what?
I need to go to art school and get some training because I'm not leveling up as fast as I need to, and I think-" Mm-hmm.
" art school will help me get better faster so I can start doing what I truly want to do."
And so I just called the 800 number, set up a, a meeting, uh, a schedule for a meeting, and my folks and I drove out there and toured the school and I was enrolled, uh, for the, for the next quarter a month later.

(24:56):
Wowers.
So I attended the Art Institute of Dallas which is more of a technical school, um, and it was a 2year program where I studied commercial art and graphic design.
They taught nothing about comics at all, whatsoever.
Well, they were very anti-comic book.
They actually, I actually had to get in, uh, fights with my instructors because they were telling me, "If you wanna be a comic book artist, you need to quit school now and stop wasting your time and money here, 'cause you're heading to-" Really?

(25:19):
" a dead-end career."
And I'm like- Oh, 'c- 'cause comics was nothing.
It wasn't going to
It wasn't gonna pay the bills, ever.
Right, and they didn't know that, you know, McFarlane and Lee and Liefeld were, you know, selling crazy numbers and making crazy money.
They were about to start Image Comics and that
So this is like 1991, '92, and I'm like, "You have no idea what's happening in comics."

(25:40):
And even if I couldn't b- have a, you know
.99999999976717I would still do this anyway because, you know, anyone who does comics does it 'cause we love to make comics- Right. 503 00:25:48,139.99999999976717 --> 00:25:53,780 not because we want to become millionaires, 'cause very few of us beget to get to get to become-
millionaires.
Um- A million.
I think there's 3, 4, uh-
since, since the Image guys.
I, I was gonna say, should we count on our fingers how many there actually are?

(26:03):
I think we- How many we have.
we, we cannot get to the full both hands.
Um- It-It happens.
.99999999976717It's, it's, uh, it's become a, you know, since you and I were kids, it's become a much more competitive field than it was back in the '60s 513 00:26:19,331.99999999976717 --> 00:26:20,952 '50s, '60s, '70s.
Yeah.
.00000000023283It was 516 00:26:22,52.00000000023283 --> 00:26:26,52.00000000023283 Back then, they could barely find people who would draw the comics. 517 00:26:26,52.00000000023283 --> 00:26:26,272 Right.

(26:26):
Now, there's such a, a, um, stable of people to draw from and people submitting new, uh, portfolios every day- Yeah.
that, uh, that it's a lot
.99999999976717Th- there's a lot more competition and a lot more 521 00:26:40,331.99999999976717 --> 00:26:52,612 It g- it gives the publishers a lot more power because they then can say, "Oh, well, we'll, we'll hire this person for a little while, and then we'll rotate the door, re- revolve 'em out."

(26:52):
Whereas someone like, um
So, when I used to work with Sal Buscema, he would say- Hmm.
.99999999976717"I didn't realize this was gonna be my entire life and I'd never be able to get out of it." 525 00:27:01,351.99999999976717 --> 00:27:03,581.9999999997672 I said, "Never get out of it?" 526 00:27:03,581.9999999997672 --> 00:27:07,672 "You've got people who are dying to be able to work in comics for the rest of their life."
Yeah.
And, uh, and Sal said, "Well, they can have it."
Um, but I think, I think he was, uh, I think he was winding down.

(27:15):
He also wanted to switch from doing, uh, pencils to doing just inks.
.00000000023283He really just- Huh? 532 00:27:21,52.00000000023283 --> 00:27:23,372 wanted to ink and they wouldn't let him.
Every time-
he turned around, he'd say, "All I wanna do is ink.
Can we do this?"
.00000000023283"Oh, Sal, we really need you to draw this, uh, this, uh, you know, 4, 4issue Spider-Man miniseries and then you can be done." 537 00:27:35,302.00000000023283 --> 00:27:36,368 "Okay."

(27:37):
I'm speaking, I'm speaking for Sal, I shouldn't.
But, uh, I do know, I do know that he wanted to kind of wind down and start doing, uh, you know, j- just trying to gauge his, his output and how much he was gonna have to do.
Yeah.
Anyway, he's, he's a legend.
I love you, Sal, if you're listening.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Um, but, uh, but that is funny that, you know, a lot of people, uh, even when I came into the industry, I felt, I, you know, if I can get a job here, I'm gonna work here for the rest of my life.

(28:04):
Yeah.
And then a lot of things happened.
There was
Marvel went broke, bankrupt, um- Mm-hmm.
you know, there's, there's a lot of things changed the way that the industry is run.
And, um, as much as I'm a personable person, I'm not a good business person.
And I don't, I don't know how to network very well or, or beat down the doors of editors.

(28:24):
and- Yeah, I, I'm, I, I'm a terrible businessman as well.
It's like I, I, I can, I can tell my stories, draw my stories, but as far as business, I, I am
I, I don't know how I've made it this far.
It's
Now, now you
So you went to the, uh, the technical school.
You went to the- Yeah.
Dallas Art School.
Um, and was that where you, uh, you decided you were gonna just create your own, your own series?

(28:49):
Is that where Wild Guard came from?
.9999999997672That's when I created Wild Guard, yeah. 563 00:28:52,871.9999999997672 --> 00:29:01,472 Um, so moving back to Dallas, uh, post-high school, um, uh, where I lived in East Texas, we didn't have the Fox Network yet.
Uh, so I moved to Dallas, and now I have access to Fox and all their great shows like The Simpsons and Married With Children and Parker Lewis Can't Lose and COPS.

(29:09):
And I became
It's just like COPS every time it's on, reruns, fr- you know, first run, I gotta watch every episode of COPS.
It was, it was my, my obsession.
And I was watching it, I was like, "What if cameramen followed superheroes instead of police officers?"
And that's w- where I came
Created the idea of Wild Guard and, uh, Wild Guard, and started, uh, to, uh, make more mini comics again like I'd made in high school.

(29:33):
When I was in high school, I made like maybe 8, 9, 10 mini comics, uh- Uh-huh.
.9999999997672and then stopped. 573 00:29:39,831.9999999997672 --> 00:29:46,212 And, um, so I started back up again 'cause my skills were now a lot better as I could make a more finished, better looking.
You know, the lettering was better.
I mean, I could do, uh
My hand lettering was better but now I could
With the, the advent of, you know, the technology now, with, with digital fonts, I could now type out my, my word balloons and cut- Mm-hmm.

(29:58):
and paste them onto the art and stuff.
So they started to look slicker.
And, um, so that's when I started to, to really, uh, run with Wild Guard and hav- have fun making my Wild Guard mini comics, for sure.
And, and for, just for people who didn't live through it, uh, there was a period sometime in the mid to late '80s, and even into the early '90s, where, where homemade comics, mini comics, uh, self-published comics were a real thing.

(30:24):
There was a whole culture that was devoted to that.
and I remember my friend Andy and I writing to people all over the country to get their mini comic that they were selling for a dollar or 2, that they Xeroxed off at Kinko's or some place like that- Yeah.
just to see these young creators, and it was pure, distilled joy to see what these people were creating on their own, and they didn't know all the ins and outs of story structure.

(30:50):
They didn't know perspective or anatomy, but they were
I, I mean, some of 'em did.
Obviously, you did.
You ha- you, you had that going on.
Uh, but, you know, it was, it was looking at people's just their, their passion was just out in these little booklets that people would make, and then they started being called ash cans and, and- Mm-hmm.

(31:12):
all kinds of stuff.
But that was a huge, huge, um, culture, and, uh, and, uh, in the same way now that, uh, and you and I kind of lived through it, we watched the variant cover, uh, uh, idea kind of balloon back in the early to mid-'90s, even into the- Mm-hmm.
late '90s, balloon- Yeah.

(31:34):
and then that became the reason why the market just dropped, because people just got sick of paying the same amount of money for the same story, just with a different cover.
Now, variant covers are out of this world.
Mm-hmm.
The market for them is astonishing to me.
Yeah.
Uh, just, just looking and seeing what, uh, what people are doing and how many covers are being put on some of these comic books.

(32:01):
Well, this is the 19th cover for, uh, you know, this, this new Mutant Turtles, uh, book or, or-
something like that.
Yeah.
And, and everybody's getting in on it, and I kinda like it.
I hope it doesn't hurt comics again like it did last time.
But, anyway, I'm babbling.
Uh- Yeah.
so you did Wild Guard.
Was that what you took to, um, Rob?

(32:23):
Uh, was that what you took in as your, as your portfolio?
.99999999976717Absolutely not, no. 610 00:32:29,139.99999999976717 --> 00:32:30,060 I was so
.9999999997672Because, you know- 612 00:32:30,639.9999999997672 --> 00:32:31,960 like you say, it's, it's
Like, this is me on the page.
This is the most vulnerable aspect of me in print.
I only shared that with my fellow comic book aspiring, uh, classmates.
Uh, we kinda formed a little, we formed a little, our own little imprint called Hot Fish.

(32:47):
And so-
I only shared that with the Hot Fish guys, as, like, I told them, I gave them the strictest, um, commands of, "Please do not show this to anyone.
.0000000002328I'm entrusting these with you." 620 00:32:59,860.0000000002328 --> 00:33:04,380 So, I was just submitting my, my 3 to 4page storytelling samples.
I was, like, uh, a year and a half ahead of those guys, so I graduated and, and moved to Pennsylvania, 'cause that's where my folks were then living at the time, uh, just outside of Pittsburgh.

(33:12):
.99999999976717So, uh, I was living there to keep costs down while I'm paying back my school loans and sending out my samples to Marvel, DC, every Image studio, Dark Horse, you know, every, every publisher of the early '90s, and getting my rejection letters for my samples. 623 00:33:27,139.99999999976717 --> 00:33:37,648.0000000002328 And, um, uh, one of my art school buddies, Jaime Mendoza, who is a professional inker who inks a lot of, like, Doug Mahnke stuff and Doug, Doug- uh, Duncan Rouleau. 624 00:33:38,360.00000000023283 --> 00:33:41,920 So he was trying to break in, so we were trying to break in as a duo.

(33:41):
So he would take, uh, my pencils and he would do his inks over that.
And so he was at a convention, January '94, and I knew, uh, or he cont- he called me after the convention.
He, he was working, uh, security in Houston.
Uh, he and one of our other Hot Fish fellas- Uh-huh.
uh, they were, Jaime and Marc were, uh, kind of Dan Fraga's

(34:03):
Uh, who was one of Rob Liefeld's first hires.
Uh- Right.
they were hi- his, his kind of security/go-to guys.
.99999999976717So, you know, getting 'em food and water and managing cro- crowd control. 634 00:34:13,179.99999999976717 --> 00:34:17,199.99999999976717 So they were hanging out with Dan that night in his hotel room, and Jaime shows him our samples. 635 00:34:17,199.99999999976717 --> 00:34:20,360.00000000023283 And so Jaime says, "Yeah, I showed him our samples," and it's like, "Oh, what did Dan think?" 636 00:34:20,360.00000000023283 --> 00:34:22,110.00000000023283 He goes, "Uh, he didn't like 'em." 637 00:34:22,110.00000000023283 --> 00:34:25,279.99999999976717 He, you know, he was not impressed, and he goes like, "Ah, heard that before. 638 00:34:25,279.99999999976717 --> 00:34:26,199.99999999976717 Back to the drawing board." 639 00:34:26,199.99999999976717 --> 00:34:37,779.9999999997672 He goes, uh, Jaime goes, "But, um, you know, I kinda showed him your Wild Guard mini comics," and I was just like, "Jaime, you betray me like this? 640 00:34:37,779.9999999997672 --> 00:34:38,540 How could you do this?

(34:38):
I told you specifically not to do that."
.99999999976717He goes, "He liked them." 643 00:34:42,139.99999999976717 --> 00:34:43,400 I'm like, "What?"
He asked if he could take them.
.0000000002328I'm going, "Are you kidding me?" 646 00:34:45,860.0000000002328 --> 00:34:47,220.00000000023283 He says, "He wants to show them to Rob." 647 00:34:47,220.00000000023283 --> 00:34:48,400 It's like, "No way."
.00000000023283He goes, "You might get a call from Rob Liefeld this week," and I'm like, "Jaime, I will name my first 7 children after you." 649 00:34:56,220.00000000023283 --> 00:35:08,540 So, I'm now waiting for that call from Rob, and I'd sent in samples to Rob's, uh, uh, Extreme Studios talent search, like, a month or 2 prior, in, in, like, November of, of 1993.

(35:08):
And I get this letter in the mail that week, like that Tuesday.
I'm like, "Wow, that was fast," and I open it up, it's like, oh, it's my rejection letter from the samples I sent in, my young blood samples I had mailed in.
Sh- Wednesday, the next day, I get a call from Erik Stevenson, who was R- one of Rob's writers and editors and who is now the, the publisher of Image Comics.
He calls me and says, "We saw your mini co- comics.

(35:29):
We like 'em.
.0000000004657Rob wants t- has a book he wants you to do. 656 00:35:32,720.0000000004657 --> 00:35:35,440 You're the winner of our Extreme Studios talent search."
Wow.
And I was like, "This is nuts," and that-
taught me one of my very first lessons, was my samples, I was trying to draw what editors and publishers, what I think they wanted to see.
But my Wild Guard mini comics was purely me, unfiltered, as best I can, and it's like, you gotta be yourself.

(35:52):
If you try to be someone else, it's like driving with the parking brake on.
There's just something that's missing.
But if I'm truly myself, that's where the spark is, and I have to not be afraid of that rejection, because, I-I s- there was nothing I needed to be afraid of.
That's what got me accepted.
I was being rejected for what I thought I was trying to be, but I was accepted for who I truly was.
And so that, uh, that was, yeah, the first th- that, that was how I broke in with Rob and taught me my first lesson going into this industry.

(36:18):
That's a great lesson.
Uh, really cool.
Um, so, so you got the job.
So, now you're working.
Were you, were you
I'm j- I'm g- I'm, I'll dance around a little.
Were you being paid?
Were you being paid for this work?
I was.
I was being paid.
.9999999995343I was given, I think, a far more generous page rate for a brand new, you know, kid. 678 00:36:40,663.9999999995343 --> 00:36:42,084 Green, totally green.

(36:42):
I mean, even though I'd made comics, and I was working for independent publishers at the time.
I was doing short stories, and, and, you know, really, really one, one-off publishers that were just like, I think only one issue came out of the 3 issues I did for that one publisher down in Georgia, but I didn't care 'cause I just got hired by Rob Liefeld.
So, I wanted to work in studio.
.99999999953434They gave me a chance to either work remotely from Pennsylvania or come out to California, and being, just turning 23 years old, I wanna go to California 'cause that's where everything's at. 683 00:37:10,163.99999999953434 --> 00:37:13,484 And I want to, I mean, I'm, I'm a big Rob Liefeld fan from New Mutants on.

(37:13):
It's like Hawk and Dove.
It's like, I want to be there in your studio, w- just like J.
Scott Campbell is at, uh, WildStorm, and, and David Finch over at Top Cow.
I wanna be there with Marott Mychals and Dan Frega and N- Norm Ratman and Danny Mickey.
I wanna be with the, all, all this.
I want, I wanted to be a part of all that, so I packed up and moved to California.
So I was there.
He paid me a generous page rate, gave me tons of work, paid off my school loan in 6 months, and it was, it, yeah, I got paid for everything I did for Rob, thankfully.

(37:42):
Great.
.9999999995343Great. 694 00:37:44,663.9999999995343 --> 00:37:47,464 Uh, and you know why I'm asking it- .
like that?
Because I've heard other stories.
Uh- I've heard those stories as well, yeah.
Uh, so, uh, so good for you.
Good.
I'm gl- I'm glad that was happening.
I'm glad that was going on.
And then, did that, uh, parlay immediately into working for, um, Marvel or DC?

(38:03):
Did you, uh- No, when Rob closed the doors to Extreme Studios in like late '96, you know, I was now kind of back to square one.
I gotta now start submitting my stuff to Marvel and DC because I don't have any contacts there.
So, I was mailing my samples.
So, I was immediately getting responses from Mike Carlin.
He liked my work- Mm-hmm.
and said, "I like it."
"We just don't have anything for you yet."

(38:23):
"Just hold on."
And that took a number of months, maybe 8, 9 months before I started to get s- work at Legion of Super-Heroes in July of '97, and, uh, just prior to the San Diego Comic Con of '97.
So, um, so it, it, it, there was about, yeah, about 8 to 9 months of just, like, maybe 10 months of, "Oh," you know, "am I gonna be able to break back in with the, with the other publishers or break in-" Yeah.

(38:47):
"with the other publishers?"
Uh, but thankfully, doors did open there in, in, in '97.
Were you working another job in between?
Were you doing something- I was not, no.
I had sa- I had saved, you know, the, the money I was making with Rob.
I just saved it all.
I wasn't buying, like, cra- going crazy spending money buying all sorts of sports cars or memorabilia or, you know, all geek stuff.

(39:07):
.99999999953434It's just like, "Just save it." 721 00:39:09,203.99999999953434 --> 00:39:18,084 And so I was able to float for those 10 months easy, and, um, and, but I did consider, I did actually look into other, other work.
I, uh, a lot of the Extreme Studios guys went into animation, and I looked into animation, and Sony offered me a job to do clean-up storyboards on their Extreme Ghostbusters cartoon.

(39:28):
And I'm like, "Do I want to m- move, or worse, commute to LA to trace another person's artwork?"
Uh, no.
My passion is comics.
Agree.
If I don't make a contact by San Diego '97, later that summer, then I'll consider my career in comics done, and I'll do anything else.
I'll go flip burgers at In-N-Out if I need to.

(39:49):
Mm-hmm.
I hear they have great healthcare benefits.
So, uh- .
Health insurance benefits, I should say.
So, um, but thankfully, the doors did open, but yeah, I did consider animation, but realized that's just not my scene.
It's like, I love comics too much.
That's where my passion is, and I'm so thankful that the door reopened for me, and, and, you know, and relatively short time when I look back on it now, even though it felt- That-

(40:10):
like forever.
That's, uh, that's awesome.
Uh, we, we talked a little earlier, uh, when we were reconnecting.
It's been a long time since we really had a chance, and, and as you said- Yeah.
you and I never really sat down and hashed over our past and what was going on.
It's been years since then.
But, uh, I do remember as we were developing Young Justice before, uh- Yeah.

(40:33):
before it all happened, I was, uh, working with Eddie Braganza, and we did The World Without Grown-Ups, which was kind of the, the lead-off to the series that we were preparing.
And, um, uh, I will say that your samples were right on top of, uh, a stack that Eddie had of probably 8 people.

(40:55):
And we were looking for who was going to be the definitive artist on this series, who
What look do we want?
And honestly, I think yours was the second or third one in.
And I went, "This is it.
This is done.
It's done.
We're done.
We're all done."
And Eddie and Mike Carlin both hemmed and hawed a little bit, because, "Let's not, you know, let's not cook it right away."
I was like, "No, this is the guy."

(41:16):
And then I saw Todd.
"His name is Todd.
It's 2 Todds.
This has to be
This is kismet.
This is, this is it.
Let's do it."
And, uh, so, um, I was, uh, I was eager to work with you, eager to meet you.
Over at Marvel, I was working on Sensational.
Everybody knows that Mike Wieringo would work probably 4, 3 or 4 issues and then need a break, 'cause he would just work himself into a frenzy.

(41:42):
And I, because I was working with a great editor, Ralph Macchio, Ralph would say, "Well, Todd, who do you want to work with?"
And I was able to say, "Todd Nauck."
And he'd say, "Call him up."
Like, I, Ralph just wanted to dodge doing any of the work.
But also, also he taught me a lot of things by doing that.
Hmm.
But that's when, that's when we were able to have you come on and, and- Yeah.

(42:03):
uh, do a fill-in issue, 2 fill-in issues- Yup.
um, that I just, I, I love them still.
When they, when they show up on my table and people say, "Could you sign this?"
Yeah.
I will absolutely be happy to sign this.
And by the way, Todd is over at that table over there.
Or, or you're usually not there, 'cause we're both
You're East Co- you're West Coast, I'm East Coast.
But- West Coast, yeah.

(42:24):
But, um, but it was wonderful to work with you.
I got so excited that we were gonna do this.
But as people, uh, who listen to the podcast know that I had some, um, difficulties with the editor.
We, we didn't see eye to eye on things.
And so, I opted to leave the book after doing a lot of work.

(42:45):
And I told you earlier- Yeah.
I grieved, I grieved that book for a long time.
Mm-hmm.
But I know that you and Peter David, who came on to write the book, you guys created a legacy that so many
I'm gonna say young, but so many young people come up to me and say, "Oh, Young Justice was my favorite book.
I loved the book.

(43:05):
I loved what was going on in it."
And, uh, and that, that makes me feel good.
And another part of me goes, "Oh, regret."
But- Hmm.
uh, but it was, it was really
Was that the book, you think, that put you on the map?
I think so.
I think, you know- Or were you already on the map?
I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't want to step over something else that you- No, no, I mean, I was, I, I, you know, my work with Rob, it, it hit with a lot of those image comics, reading teens.

(43:32):
Mm-hmm.
People like Robert Kirkman and, and Tony Fleeks and John Boy Myers, you know, were, were kids reading that, that, teenagers reading that.
You know, they're maybe like 8 years younger than me, so they were reading my New Men comics with, with Rob.
But, uh, I think Young J-Justice did open up a, a, what, much broader, uh, audience for me.
And a lot of people know me for that, and I'm, I'm thankful that they do, 'cause I really loved doing that book.

(43:53):
And, and I was so
When
I remember you telling me some of the different story ideas of what you had in your outline, and I was so excited about th- those, especially what
Well, I don't know if we're allowed to say what one of those, uh, story bits were.
So- I don't
The, the 1 You know-
where the kids were gonna get shrunk down to atom size.
And I love the idea of people being shrunk down.
Uh, uh, the Lily Tomlin movie, The Incredible Shrinking Woman, my sisters and I would watch that all the time, just people getting small.

(44:20):
Just, I, it's like, all the kids will get, get shrunk down.
I, I want to draw that story.
I wanted us to tell that story.
And so, there were so many fun things that you'd come up with that I was disappointed that when, when, you know, the editor called me and said that you were not with the series anymore, and they were looking for another writer, I was, you know, very disappointed.
And just like, "Oh, no, who are we gonna get?
I'm, I'm nervous about this."

(44:40):
I don't
Um, you know, will, will it be the same sort of magic?
And of course, it wouldn't be the same sort of magic, but P- Peter David, uh, did bring his flavor and magic, which I think was
If we couldn't have you, he, he, he definitely, uh, was, uh, someone who could fit the bill.
I, I, I guess, I guess we definitely need to say this.
First and foremost, I was a huge Peter David fan.

(45:03):
We just lost him last week.
Yeah.
Uh, a week and a half ago.
.00000000046566Um, he, uh, he 831 00:45:08,220.00000000046566 --> 00:45:10,230 I know he had a lot of health issues in the end.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm
I feel so bad for him, because he, uh, I know he was suffering through a lot of stuff.
Yeah.
And, uh, as much as medical science can, can fix that and alleviate things, it wasn't.
But I, I loved Peter's writing.

(45:26):
I loved what he did.
Uh, his work on The Hulk, especially.
Mm-hmm.
Um, his work on X Factor, that was years before I was on X Factor.
Yeah.
Uh, it, it, it, it, uh, it kind of informed me a lot of what I- Hmm.
wanted to do with X Factor when I got on there.
Um, his, uh, cert- certainly his writing was great.

(45:47):
He always had a sense of fun to his stories.
There was always- Yeah.
exciting action, great, great match-ups of power, uh, in the Hulk.
I'm just thinking about The Hulk all the time.
.0000000004657Oh, for sure. 851 00:45:58,720.0000000004657 --> 00:46:00,640 But he wrote, he wrote so many other things.
Supergirl for years.
Young Justice, of course.
Uh, but what I loved about Peter was his, um-

(46:07):
he, his sense of puns, uh-
some, some people, some people roll their eyes at puns- Yeah.
.99999999953434because sometimes, uh, you can go overboard with a pun. 858 00:46:17,471.99999999953434 --> 00:46:22,682 Peter had that sweet spot of what he did with puns, uh, in the titles of stories.
Mm-hmm.
Sometimes the characters would use them.
But my gosh, he was an expert at it.
One of my favorite Peter David puns is, he had a character reading a comic book and the name of the comic book was Ben Steele and His Bear Hans.

(46:40):
And, and I, I just looked at it like, "Why isn't DC now publishing this comic book with a character named Ben Steele-" "
and his sidekick who is a bear, named Hans?"
Oh, I loved it, I loved it so much.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, Peter, Peter was great.
I, uh, I've said this before, I'm pretty sure, on the podcast that, um, at 1 point after he was working on The Hulk for 12 years, I think- Mm-hmm.

(47:05):
almost 13 years, um, the management Marvel decided that it was time to bring back the dumb Hulk, time to change things up and he insisted that the editor, uh, change the, the creative team.
Oh, wow.
And Mike and I were just coming off of Sensational Spider-Man where we had done pretty well, and they, they offered us the book and we were very excited.

(47:29):
And again, just like Young Justice, with Young Justice I wrote a, a year and a half overview, not, not, you know, not detailed outline but an idea of what the first 16 issues would look like.
Yeah.
And that's what I shared with you and- Mm-hmm.
and we talked about a lot of what they were.
I still have them, uh, if, if, uh, maybe you and I will talk about seeing if there's some way , uh, to do that.

(47:54):
But, um, I still have them and they are fun.
They're, they're, they were fun stories.
Anyway, going back to The Hulk, I had mapped out what we were gonna do the, with The Hulk for the first year and then there was this power struggle between the editor and the editor-in-chief.
Hmm.
And even though they had fired Peter, which was heartbreaking to the editor who had worked with him for so long- Yeah.

(48:17):
uh, this editor and editor, e- e- editor-in-chief were fighting over it and I was caught in the middle.
And when it finally shook out, somehow Mike and I were no longer being considered for the book.
Oh.
It was ouch.
And, uh, but, but for a lo- for a couple of months actually, we were gearing up to do it, to get, get going on it.

(48:38):
Um, and I felt bad because it would mean no more Peter, but I was happy 'cause we were gonna be, be bringing back good old punch-him-in-the-head Hulk.
Hulk smash Hulk?
Not just
Hulk smash Hulk.
Um, so anyway, I'm sorry for babbling, rambling about that.
But you and Peter, back to you and Peter.
You and Peter on Young Justice
Now, how was, how was he?

(48:59):
Did you, did
Was he a, uh, a full script, here it is, do what I say kind of guy or did he collaborate?
Our first 20 issues up through Sins of Youth, he wrote Marvel style, which was my first time to work Marvel style.
And, um, had a lot of fun with it, definitely had a lot to learn, like, um, but, uh, it was, it, it was, um

(49:23):
I was starstruck 'cause, you know, I-
I mean, even though I didn't meet him until like 2 years later at San Diego Comic-Con I think it was.
So, those first 2 years I would just get, you know
The editor would send me the, the, the plot and, you know, I'd do up my layout, send them, you know, fax them.
.0000000004657I'd fax them over. 904 00:49:38,662.0000000004657 --> 00:49:43,600 It was, you know, 1990, 97 and '98, so I did not have, um

(49:44):
I didn't have an- Right.
email address yet, you know?
So -
um, I, or a scanner, so it would all be faxes for a number of years.
And, um, so I was just like, "Oh my gosh, I'm working with Peter David," you know?
.00000000046566I loved his Hulk. 911 00:49:56,412.00000000046566 --> 00:49:57,592 I was a huge, huge fan.
That was probably my favorite thing he, he wrote that and X-Lander.
Um, so I, uh, so I, you know, I still felt like I'm still a new kid on the block.

(50:07):
I mean, I, I've been in the industry maybe 3 years, 4 years, but I still felt like the new kid.
And so I just was like, "Just, just stay low, get the job done, meet the deadlines, and hopefully no one will notice that I'm doing this for a living and hire someone else to take over for me," because, uh, you know, struggling with imposter syndrome I guess.

(50:28):
Mm-hmm.
uh, but he was
When I met him, he was very friendly, very, uh, welcoming, and, you know, we, we did develop a friendship that would then carry on to work on other projects together.
So, uh, yeah, he, he is, uh
Uh, but, but after Sins of Youth, he started to write full script, and he was als- uh, in that regard, very open to my suggestions if I thought of maybe combining 2 panels or breaking a panel up into 3 panels and stuff.

(50:54):
It was, it wasn't so strict, you must, you know, "My word is gospel and you must-" Right.
" draw it as I have written it."
He was very, very flexible, and I, I appreciated that.
That's great.
That's, uh, that, um, that kind of dynamic, that kind of, uh, synergy when you're working with someone and you just trust their creativity and they trust your creativity, it, it just, uh, I used this word before, empowers you to, to just, "Okay, I can take some chances.

(51:25):
I can do some things."
Yeah.
"Peter's gonna like it," or, or, or whatever.
Uh, I think that's really important.
Um, you were talking before, we spoke a little bit, and I wanted to kind of jump back to this a little bit.
You were talking about lessons that you've learned as an artist, as a professional in the comic book industry.
Yeah.
Uh, and one of the things you said was that you had saved your money, uh, from when you were working with Rob, for Rob.

(51:52):
Mm-hmm.
Um, that you had saved some money.
You didn't spend it, uh, arbitrarily, l- Yeah.
wild, "Oh no, I got a job.
I got some money in my pocket."
Um, I can't stress this enough.
I am not good with money.
I do spend randomly.
But my mom and dad were, um, were frugal.
Uh, not cheap, but they were, they taught my brother and I that you, you put away a certain amount of every paycheck.

(52:20):
And in this business, anybody who's listening, anybody who gets in, you might have these great days of, uh, milk and honey where you're just making money and you're thinking, "This will never end," be careful.
Uh, get yourself a 401K if they still have those.
I don't even know what the financial landscape is anymore.
Get yourself some kind of, uh, retirement plan.

(52:44):
I know it sounds stupid-
when you're only in your 20s or 30s, but it really, it really will help out in the future.
And, uh, I just wanted to kind of circle back to that, because there are a lot of people who got into comics, made a s- staggering amount of money- Yeah.
uh, because they were on an X-Men book or something back in the '90s or, or, you know, it was just this amazing, uh, tidal wave of cash.

(53:13):
And it's, uh, the indus- this industry does not, uh, it's not steady.
You, you never know.
So, just my 2 cents.
Sorry to be your dad.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled podcast.
So, uh, if you're, if you're talking about that, you said later on you worked with Peter again on, uh, Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.

(53:36):
Yeah.
Um, uh, and you and I spoke earlier, too, about your, um, your work on Night Crawler.
Yes.
With Chris Clare- Chris Claremont, one of my- Yeah.
absolute heroes.
Uh, but you were telling me, and I'd like you to, to talk about that again here on- Yeah.
I, I think, I think, I think we did it.
I think actually, we did do that.

(53:56):
So- So, we can just- I'm gonna cut it.
cut that part and drop it in here?
I'm gonna cut it.
We're gonna drop it in later as, like, a special.
So this stuff I'm cutting out.
Um, now, what was the first car you ever owned?
Uh, my first car was, uh, a '79 Datsun that I bought for $750 in the fall of 1988.
It was a stick, an automa- or a, a standard transmission, which I had never driven before, but I was so desperate to have a car.

(54:22):
Uh, I bought it anyway and learned how to drive.
Uh, I do a lot of things just like, "Well, I don't know how to do it.
I'll just learn as I go."
Right.
Uh, whether that be my career or, you know-
learning how to drive a, a, a a Standard and, uh, in east Texas, we have, uh, a number of hills.
They're not mountains, but there are definitely some steep inclines.
And, uh, when you kind of get at a stopl- a stop sign that's on the upward slope, trying to learn to get into first gear and not stall out, I sat there for probably 15 minutes trying to figure out, "How do I get the right touch to keep, get this thing going to get up the hill?"

(54:56):
We've all been there, man.
You, well you were, you were doing it in '88.
How old were you?
You were a- I was, uh, 17.
Yeah.
So, uh- October of '88.
I was 17 years old.
Just started- I think I was probably-
my senior year of high school.
I was learning to drive a stick because I live out in the country when I was probably about 11, 12 'cause there'd be a truck out in the back field just for practicing, just for whatever.

(55:18):
Yeah.
.99999999953434And, uh, and, and we would go out there and, um, and it's a lot easier when you learn on a field.
I can imagine.
Instead of, instead of on a hill in, uh, in, uh, Tyler, Texas.
Uh, so-
what are you working on now?
Uh, let's see.
Um, I, I just, I, I recently finished my portion of, uh, the new, uh, DC miniseries, um, the new D- The New History of the DC Universe.

(55:47):
It's a little bit of a mouthful.
The New History of the DC Universe, written by Mark Waid.
It's a 4issue miniseries.
Ah.
Each issue has a different art team.
And, um, Jerry Ordway and I are splitting pages for issue one.
.0000000004657Wow. 1007 00:56:00,720.0000000004657 --> 00:56:01,400 Very nice.
That's a- Yeah.
that's a good combo, but man if, if you could get a better writer, you should try.
Uh, we can't get away from that Mark Waid.

(56:09):
He is a, uh-He is a, a, like a bad penny.
Um
And, and, uh
Uh, he doesn't listen.
Uh, but I'm gonna tell him that I was picking on him.
Um, so that's a cool thing to be working on.
What do you think is your most, um, the

(56:32):
What do you think is the project you're most proud of at this point in your life?
Wow.
Meaning that something else might come along later- Right.
but what is, what is the thing that you're the most proud of that you are happy to be, uh, associated with?
Man, it's hard to narrow it down to one 'cause I've had so much fun these past 30 years.

(56:53):
Um, you know, Young Justice is way up there 'cause they had to cancel the book to get me off of it, you know?
It's like- It's like I would not
I would have done a Kirby-level run on that book.
I would have gone for 102 issues and beyond, um, 'cause I just love those, those, those kids so much.
Uh, the Young Justice kids, I should say.
Um, a- as well as all the kids that have grown up reading it and I meet them at conventions now and I hear all these stories of these kids who that meant so much to them, just like New Mutants and Cloak and Dagger and Power Pack meant something to me- Yeah.

(57:24):
as a teenager in the '80s.
You know, I had this brother and sister.
They're like young adults, probably college age, maybe a little bit older, mid-20s, we'll say.
They come up and they go, "When we were brother and sister"
You know, "When we were teenagers"
They've always been brother and sister, y- uh
" when we were teenagers, we bickered all the time."
It's like, "I understand that.
Siblings do that."
He goes, "But the one thing we could agree on was Young Justice.

(57:45):
And on our walks to the bus stop, we would talk about Young Justice, and that was the thing we bonded over."
And my heart melted.
It's just like- Yeah.
I got to have a part in that in some small way, just as, you know, Louise Simonson and Joh- John Bogdanov had a, had
Did something for me on Power Pack.
And it
So it's like, um
Or Louise Simonson
I, I'm a huge Louise Simonson fan.

(58:07):
You pair, pair her with Li- Rick Leonardi on, on New Mutants and then, you know
Or Brett Levins.
It's, it's my love language.
So it's just like
So, so that means so much to me.
Working with Chris Claremont as a, as a huge X-Men fan.
I mean, I'm wearing an X-Men local t- logo t-shirt.
I'm such an X-Men fan.
Getting to work with my, one of my favorite characters with Chris Claremont for 12 issues, that meant so much to me.
Putting out my own creator-owned series, Wild Guard.

(58:29):
It's like, it's hard to narrow it down.
I, I guess they have their own reasons, I should say, 00 of why they, i- i- it's, it's something I- I'm s- I can be so proud of.
So I'm- Uh
Sorry if that was kind of a wibbly-wobbly- No, no.
No, it was a, it was a great response because- Okay.
I'm, I'm the same way.
They're all my children.
Yeah.
Uh, you know, everything that I do, I put my

(58:49):
I put as much as I can into it.
There's a couple of, uh, there's a couple of licensing projects that I did for Marvel and for some other people that it was a
It was work for hire.
Yeah.
I, I, you know, I wasn't
I didn't dream it up.
I was doing something that was based on, uh
Gosh, I, I've, I've done some goofy jobs.
Um, but- We all have.

(59:09):
Yeah.
But, um, but, uh, no, it
You know, you, it's your passion, so you put everything that you can in it.
Yeah.
I think when you're a creative person, there's always a part of you that you are adding to the, to the, to the recipe.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, and, and it shows if you're really passionate about it.
Um, so let's get into the hard questions, the really hard questions.

(59:30):
Okay.
Who is your favorite comic book character?
Ah.
Man, I was, uh, thinking about this, uh, last night, uh, when you mentioned these would be kind of a sample of some of the hard-hitting questions I'd get hit with.
And again, I love so many different characters for so many different reasons, but I've been a Spider-Man fan the longest, and, uh, it's definitely a comic that I, you know, keep on top of as best I can.

(59:55):
I'm like 2 months behind on Amazing Spider-Man, but huge Spider-Man fan.
.99999999953434So I'd, I'd probably have to say, if I had to pick one, I gotta pick the one that I've been the fan of the longest. 1091 01:00:05,395.99999999953434 --> 01:00:06,415 That's the way to go.
Who's your secondary?
Secondary.
Uh, I'd probably say
Kitty Pryde.
Okay.
There you go.

(01:00:16):
Well, the
What I always say to people is, "Look, you can ask me my favorite song, my favorite movie, my favorite TV show, my favorite comic book, and it changes every day."
Yeah.
I'm gonna give you
I'm gonna give you my fallback.
Mm-hmm.
is Spider-Man and Batman are in tie for my favorite characters.
Yeah.
And then, and then I love all the tertiary characters from the Justice League from the '70s.

(01:00:38):
Mm.
Elongated Man- Yes.
Red Tornado, uh, you know, those, that gang.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, but, but they're, if they're written well, eh, every single one of 'em is a friend of mine, so, you know- Yeah, totally.
Um, so, what is your favorite, what was your favorite comic book growing up?
Your series-
the series?
Was it Spider-Man?
New Mutants, I think.
I think the New Mu- Ah.

(01:00:58):
I would say the New Mutants is my series.
I mean, it started with the X-Men, but then as a teenager reading New Mutants, it's like, I can relate to these characters.
I feel like I'm, I'm powerless like Doug Ramsey.
I feel like 0 tall and gangly with a big nose like, uh, like Cannonball.
I feel I'm weird like Warlock.
Um, I feel like, I wish I could be as confident as Sunspot.
You know, so it's like, these were the characters that I could relate to the most.

(01:01:21):
That's great.
And you, you did mention the, uh, Weezie mostly.
Was that more your, was that more the period of when you were reading it?
I mean, I'm sure- Yeah.
you went back, but did you come into it when Weezie was on the book?
Was she- Uh, when, when yeah, uh, uh, Chris Claremont was just finishing up his run on New Mutants when she came on, and, uh, and of course, with, with Power Pack, and, um, and, and X-Factor.

(01:01:42):
Her run on X-Factor, uh- Yes.
especially with W- with Walt.
I, that, I read that every now and again.
Uh, I, I still will dig that one out every 3 or 4 years because it's just, it was just a fun, dynamic- Yeah.
to see the 2 of them and kind of imagine
Did they sit at home?
And I've asked them- Oh, yeah.
"Do they sit at, did they sit at home and talk about what the story was gonna be?"

(01:02:05):
And Walter immediately said, "No, no."
"She was the writer and I was the artist, and I just did whatever she told me to do."
And, and I thought, "Okay, I, I would have thought there was more, uh, back and forth, and let's do this, and let's do that."
Nope, he just, he was fine.
He just did- Yeah.
whatever, what it brought to life, whatever she said.
Um, but we can still dream.

(01:02:26):
Uh, uh, so what is your favorite comic book story?
That- So, what comic books impressed you so much that it is your favorite series, or tale, or graphic novel, or whatever?
One-Shot?
Y- yeah.
Um, I'd probably say that my, the first thing I go to is, uh, the X-Men Crossover, Inferno.

(01:02:48):
Okay, that's- I re- I l- I, I just-
real, I mean, it, it, they, it just s- I think I love the weirdness of Limbo coming to Earth and, and inanimate objects becoming dangers to everyone.
And then you had 2 storylines going on separately, the X-Men/X-Factor storyline and the New Mutants/Exterminator storyline.
Kind of they're running parallel.

(01:03:08):
And they kind of, there's kind of like- Sure.
these, they, yeah, they kind of
It was just like, you could read one side or the other, you could read both for the bigger story, but it was all connected, but you had
And I just, I just love it.
I have, I have it in like trade paperback, hardcover.
I, I got the, I got it hardcover because it had the Arthur Adams cover.
Uh- Yeah, yeah.

(01:03:28):
And it's like, "Well, I have to get it c- for - the Arthur Adams cover, come on."
It's like, "I already own this, but I gotta get the Road to Inferno in Arthur Adams cover," so now I have 2 versions of that hardcover.
Still shrink wrapped, you know, but it's like, uh, so that was, that one, I think because I was 17 years old and it just was the right story for me at that time in life, that it just sparked my imagination in such a huge way, and, and was just so much fun.

(01:03:52):
And, uh, definitely had that day after Christmas letdown when it ended.
Yeah, yeah.
Uh, no, I thought I had only 2 more questions for you, but you just brought up another one, so I'm gonna make it 3.
Okay.
Um, is there a comic book issue that you will see at a convention or somewhere-
and you've just gotta buy it?

(01:04:13):
I love tro- uh, you know, going through the dollar bins.
Or the bargain- Uh-huh, me too.
bins I should say.
Uh- Me too.
$2, $1, quarter.
There was a dime bin one time.
I was at Heroes Con 2014, and I'd found a dime bin, and got the first 30 issues of Alpha Flight for a dime each.
It's like, yeah- Great.
how can I pass them up for a dime?
Come on, this is nuts.
.0000000004657Who cares? 1182 01:04:31,720.0000000004657 --> 01:04:32,400 3 bucks for
.99999999953434I mean, you, you couldn't get, uh, the 30 comics for 3 bucks when this series came out, so- Right, right. 1184 01:04:38,279.99999999953434 --> 01:04:39,140 that, that was, that was definitely a treasure.

(01:04:39):
But, I have so many copies of New Mutants Special Number One, drawn by Arthur Adams- Right.
from the Asgardian Wars, and Web of Spider-Man Annual Number 2, drawn by Arthur Adams, 'cause I'm a huge Arthur Adams fan.
Biggest influence on my work, my, you know, biggest influence on me.
And so, I g- I j- if I see it in, in a, in a bargain bin, I just snatch it up, because it's like, "Do you realize what you're selling here?

(01:05:01):
I'm just gonna"- "
collect these, 'cause someday it will be currency, and I will be rolling in it."
Or, I'll give a very nice gift to a young, uh, impressionable comic book- no, no.
Oh, you don't give 'em away?
Uh- I haven't given, uh, any away yet, but I do love- Oh.
your heart for introducing people to comics.
Uh, I need to learn- I would g-
from you.
I would buy, back in the day, I would buy every chance I got to buy the Paul Smith run on X-Men.

(01:05:27):
And I would gift them to people.
Just that run, I would just- Yeah.
give them, 'cause, uh, the Claremont Burned stuff, there were so many of them.
.00000000046566Mm-hmm. 1202 01:05:35,220.00000000046566 --> 01:05:42,820 Um, but, but that Paul Smith run was, I mean, Chris, I, I, I just, uh, I love Chris Claremont.
He's an amazing storyteller.
An amazing writer of character.

(01:05:48):
Mm-hmm.
Just, just incredible.
Um, but that run is easy to be able to say to somebody, "Here, have fun."
"This is a world, this is a world that I love so much, you should do it."
Um, my, my book that I, I have to, have to, and I think I probably have about- Yeah.
about 12 or 13 copies of it, of the 2

(01:06:08):
is, there were 2 issues of Captain America written by Roger Stern and drawn by John Byrne.
Okay.
Um, that featured Dragon Man- Mm.
which is one of my favorite, favorite characters, favorite villain characters.
Um, and I love it so much that whenever I see them, I buy them, and now Craig's son, John, who's been on this show several times, whenever Johnny's at a show, he goes and looks for 'em to give to Uncle Todd.

(01:06:37):
So- Oh.
I just get more and more copies of this coming in.
That's one of my favorites.
So, the other 2 questions are, when I say comic books, what's the first image that comes into your head?
What is the image that represents comics to you?
Um, the first image that did come to my head was one of my favorite covers for a comic, it's for X-Factor issue number 3.

(01:07:02):
Um, it's, it's, uh, Cyclops and, and Marvel Girl, Angel and Iceman, and Beast is all wrapped up, 'cause i- in the storyline he was being transformed from the flu- flu beast back t- to his human look, and there were these giant mech suit robot w- soldier guys that are firing lasers at him.
And I remember going, 'cause I had to buy my comics at a grocery store on a spinner rack.

(01:07:23):
I remember going into the grocery store 'cause s- whenever we go into town for groceries it's like, "Mom, you know where to find me," and I'd go and I'd, you know, at least walk away with one comic book.
However much money I had I would spend it all on comics.
I remember s- scrolling through and, and there was my first issue of X-Factor to see.
I had, I had missed issues one and 2.
I remember picking this up 'cause the cover was so interesting.
It's like, I recognized Cyclops and I recognized Iceman, but I hadn't encountered the Angel yet, and I hadn't

(01:07:47):
And, and I didn't know Marvel Girl's or Jean Gray's story from the past 'cause that had already come and gone by the time I started reading comics.
So it's like, "Who is the red-haired girl?
And who is this mummy guy?"
Not knowing that was Beast all wrapped up.
Um, so it's like, "Uh," and Artie Maddox was in it, so it's like, "Who's this weird, pink, bumpy-headed, alien-looking guy?"
It's like, characters I don't know, characters I do know, and this scene looks so exciting.

(01:08:11):
And just the excitement and the what's happening in this comic, it was an immediate buy.
I didn't even bother to flip through it, I just grabbed it.
It's like, I'm buying this sight unseen because the cover has in- it sparked my im- imagination in such a way that I just gotta know this story and learn who these characters are and, and get to know characters I already do know.
.9999999995343So it's just, like, just the anticipation of it all and the excitement of it all just kind of came crashing in in that one moment.

(01:08:37):
That's, uh, that, yeah, just your passion for it now, all these years later.
.99999999953434Now this was the Angel that was already changed? 1242 01:08:44,327.99999999953434 --> 01:08:46,136.99999999953434 He was transformed into that metal thing or 1243 01:08:46,136.99999999953434 --> 01:08:47,348 N- he wasn't Archangel yet, no.
He was still feathery- Oh, he had 3, uh.
I'm trying to think of his name.
He had the red costume with the white X on it still.
.00000000046566Right. 1248 01:08:52,198.00000000046566 --> 01:08:58,448.00000000046566 He wouldn't, uh, th- his plane wouldn't blow up for another, like, uh, 12 issues, 13 issues. 1249 01:08:58,448.00000000046566 --> 01:08:58,968 See, you know.

(01:08:58):
.00000000046566Until after the Mutant Massacre, which I love- Yes, yes. 1251 01:09:01,28.00000000046566 --> 01:09:01,728 the Mutant Massacre as well.
.0000000004657Yes. 1253 01:09:02,627.0000000004657 --> 01:09:08,975.9999999995343 Um, so, and here's the last question, is what's the funniest thing you've ever seen in a comic book? 1254 01:09:10,627.0000000004657 --> 01:09:11,747.0000000004657 Oh, man. 1255 01:09:11,747.0000000004657 --> 01:09:13,87.99999999953434 I, I should've warned you about this. 1256 01:09:13,87.99999999953434 --> 01:09:20,228 I should've said this, and I think I should warn people ahead of time, 'cause that is really a tough one for people to draw on, but you look like you got there.

(01:09:20):
I, I got something.
It, it came right to mind.
.9999999995343Um, when I was in the artist's institute and, and I lived in Dallas and there were art, uh, comic book sh- shops, and, uh, a buddy of mine was a big fan of The Tick, and he introduced me to The Tick. 1260 01:09:31,707.9999999995343 --> 01:09:34,488.00000000046566 So I started getting all the back issues of The Tick and I remember 1261 01:09:34,488.00000000046566 --> 01:09:42,448.00000000046566 I can't remember the, what he said, but he's gone undercover with, uh, Clark Oppenheimer, the Clark Kent analog, and they're trying to spy on someone. 1262 01:09:42,448.00000000046566 --> 01:09:50,968 So, you know, they got their newspapers up, but The Tick has a little window cut out of his newspaper so the, the article's folded over and he's looking through it saying, "I see 'em, I see 'em.

(01:09:50):
He's over there."
So, totally blowing their cover, and just the way Ben Edlin had written that and drawn it just, it just, that, that little humorous moment definitely stuck in my mind.
I love it.
I love it.
That's great.
Man, thank you so much.
It's so good to see you, so good to chat.
Great seeing you too.
We'll talk.
.9999999990687I'll, I'll be in touch with you because we should, uh, we should maybe investigate figuring out a way to make, uh, young, those old Young Justice stories, uh, new again- Yeah. 1273 01:10:21,827.9999999990687 --> 01:10:25,188 Uh, it would be, be great to be able to work with you, uh, 'cause it's- Ah, same.

(01:10:25):
I've just, I'm, I'm invigorated now by your energy.
Uh, thanks for doing this.
We will, uh, we will talk to you later.
Uh, I will send it to you if you want.
Do you want the episode?
Uh, Doug and I are gonna talk in a minute about now we're going
We were putting out, uh, an episode a week- Mm-hmm.
for a year.

(01:10:45):
And then we both got busy doing things, we didn't know if we were gonna go forward and, uh, and, uh, I told you some of this anyway.
But, um, now we're gonna do a season.
We're gonna do- Okay.
10 episodes.
So it'll be released sometime later on in the summer.
But, uh- Gotcha.
but when we're done with it, I will be able to send it to you if you'd like, uh- Yes, please.
so that you can review it and, uh, and give us a- That'd be wonderful.

(01:11:08):
review on it.
Um, but man, it's so good
You know what else I didn't say is, uh, say hi to Dawn.
Uh- I will do that.
I, I, I, I, uh, I always think of whenever I've seen you at a show, she's always been there.
You've always, uh, had, um, company.
So, uh, so say hello and, um- I'll do that, uh, for sure.
and thanks again for doing this.
It's really great seeing you, great talking with you- Yeah.

(01:11:30):
and, uh, and it's gonna make a great episode, I can tell you that.
Oh, right on.
Well, I appreciate you inviting me.
It's so great to connect with you and, uh, and, and chat.
I, I, I've enjoyed listening to your previous episodes getting ready for this.
So, uh, I knew we'd have a good time and even if I hadn't, I, I figured we'd have a good time just, uh, from the times I've, I've encountered you.
And I look forward to hopefully it will be at a con sometime and we can get together and have, like, dinner or something where we can connect, uh, in person a little- a, a bit more.

(01:11:55):
Have, have, like, real life, a real life encounter.
Yeah.
Um, um, yeah.
I'm always at, uh, Baltimore and Heroes.
Oh.
Uh, but that's all the East Coast.
Are you coming to Heroes this year?
I'll be at Heroes, yeah, yeah.
In fact- See you-
I'm coming out early because my youngest sister lives an hour and a half south in Columbia.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm coming out a few days early so I can go down there, visit her, and then come back up for, uh, for the convention.

(01:12:17):
So, Dawn and I will definitely be there.
See you in a couple of weeks.
Yes, I'm looking forward to that.
Great, man.
Thank you so much.
Hang on just a minute because this need- I need to stop the recording, right, Doug?
Yeah, off.
And then, and then we need to make sure it uploads.
Okay.
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