March 11, 2025 • 38 mins
This episode is all about finding and building your community with networking expert Jeni Smith.
Sarah and Jeni talk about
- Why everyone is feeling isolated and craving human connection
- How self-awareness can help you figure out what kind of community you want
- Where to look for people like you
- Ideas for nurturing and growing relationships
Find out more
- Read the show notes and transcript on the podcast website
- Listen to Jeni’s first appearance on Research Adjacent
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jeni Smith (00:00):
People do want this. They are craving this. They want
that human connection. You haveto be proactive. People aren't
just going to come and knock onyour door and find you. You have
to look and go out and findthem. Finding people is one
thing, but then nurturing thoserelationships that takes time.
It takes energy. It takesconsistency. It takes time to
(00:20):
build trust.
Sarah McLusky (00:22):
Hello there. I'm Sarah McLusky, and this is
Research Adjacent. Each episode,I talk to amazing
research-adjacent professionalsabout what they do and why it
makes a difference. Keeplistening to find out why we
think the research-adjacentspace is where the real magic
happens.
(00:44):
Hello and welcome to ResearchAdjacent. This episode is the
third in our Challenges miniseries where, with my guests,
I'm exploring some of the stickysituations and mindset gremlins
are common for research-adjacentprofessionals. So far, we've
covered imposter moments andnavigating change. And if you
haven't listened to these theseepisodes already, then make sure
you add them to your listeningqueue. And while you're at it,
(01:06):
I'd love it if you could makesure that you're subscribed to
the podcast or even take aminute to write a review. This
podcast is a real labor of love,and it's created with a mission
to make life just a little bitbetter for people like you. And
so doing tiny things likefollowing the podcast or liking
social media posts can make ahuge difference to how many
people hear about the show andhow many people we can help. So
(01:27):
back to today's episode. I'mdelighted to welcome back
previous guest, Jeni Smith. Jeniis an academic networking
expert, and you can hear allabout how she got into this work
in Episode 56. I wanted to getJeni back on to talk about her
specialist subject, because somany research-adjacent
professionals I speak to arelonely at work. It might be due
to remote working, being theonly research adjacent on a
(01:50):
research team, or just a lack ofprofessional networks to tap
into. It seems like lots of usare finding it hard to make and
maintain connections these days.So Jeni is here to give us some
simple strategies, and I promisethey don't involve anything
sleazy. We talk about why selfreflection is a good place to
start, how to find people likeyou, and how to nurture those
(02:10):
relationships and give themspace to grow. And speaking of
which, if you're listening tothis as a self-employed
research-adjacent folk, then Ihave a friendly community just
for you. Jeni and I talk alittle bit about the research
adjacent community in theepisode, and it's for
freelancers and small businessowners and I started it to
provide exactly the kind ofsupport that me and Jeni talk
(02:32):
about. And Jeni and I are bothmembers, along with lots of
other brilliant, like mindedpeople. So if you want to find
out more, you'll find a link inthe show notes. But for now, on
with the episode. Listen on tostart finding your community.
Welcome back to the podcast.Jeni, it's lovely to have you
(02:53):
here again and to come back andtalk a bit more about your
specialist subject, networkingand communities. So to begin
with, could you just give us avery quick recap for people who
maybe haven't listened to yourlast episode, but what it is
that you do?
Jeni Smith (03:08):
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me back.
Firstly, so my passion in life,slash obsession, is networking,
and that comes out in two mainways. Firstly, I help teach
networking skills to people, soacademics, businesses and
students, teaching them how tonetwork, giving them the tools
and confidence. And then I'malso a PhD student, so I'm doing
(03:30):
my PhD research in networks aswell. So I kind of come at it
from two angles,
Sarah McLusky (03:34):
Yeah, so really, lots of knowledge about this
area, and that's the reason whyI wanted to get you back on the
podcast, because this episode isgoing out as part of series.
It's going to be a specialseries looking at some of the
big challenges that faceprofessionals who are working in
a research adjacent space. Sothat's people who are not doing
(03:54):
the research themselves, but areworking with and alongside and
in some way helping the researchto happen. And there's a real
divide in a lot oforganizations, not all, but a
lot of organizations where theresearchers have loads of
opportunities to connect andnetwork. There's conferences,
there's training courses,there's, you know, they have
(04:17):
like seminars and meetings andthings like that, whereas the
people who are working alongsidethem don't get nearly the same
opportunities. And then there isalso the fact that often people
who are doing so somebody, forexample, who's a project manager
for a research team, they mightbe the only person who is not a
(04:40):
researcher in a team of 10people, so the people that
they're working with day to daydon't understand what they're
doing. Sometimes there's even alittle bit of antagonism towards
the work that they're doing.Yeah, so there's the case that
often people are the only one intheir team. They might also.
(05:00):
There's people who are researchadjacent often work from home as
well, at least for a large partof their time, so they're not
getting that social interactionof just maybe being in the
office. And there's people,again, who just, you know, you
see kind of coming and going.And then, as I say, there's a
lack of these events, trainingopportunities, places where they
(05:21):
might find that they would gettogether with other research
agent professionals. There aresome, but not loads, and so
that's some of the problemsfacing them. So I'm hoping that
we can have a conversation todayabout how to tackle some of
those issues.
Jeni Smith (05:37):
Absolutely. Yeah, love this. Let's, let's, let's
fix it.
Sarah McLusky (05:40):
Yeah brilliant. So, I mean, one of the first
things that's going to be isgoing to be, if somebody is in
this situation, they're theyfeel that they're a bit stuck at
work, a bit lonely, not managingto find people to talk to, who
get it where, where do theystart?
Jeni Smith (06:01):
Yeah I think there's a couple of things, firstly, to
consider thinking about whetheror not someone is employed
within the institution, or ifthey're freelancer and they like
sell into multiple institutions,it's going to be a slight
difference there. So someone whois if you are employed, I would
start off with your employer,engage with the wider
(06:21):
University, with theinstitution, and see what kind
of social networks they've got.And it doesn't have to be
finding someone that does theexact same job as you. I would
start by looking like close tohome. It's going to be
accessible in terms of travel,so you get that in person stuff
as well. Like you said, thatthat hybrid working, or that
remote working is having amassive impact across the board
(06:43):
for people, and in regards tomental emotional health, that
feeling of isolation that it'shard to keep up momentum with
work when you feel isolated,because you kind of carry that
by yourself so physically,getting out of the home office,
going to your place ofemployment if you are employed,
alternatively, if you're not, ifyou like, work as an external
(07:07):
and sell into differentinstitutions, which is what I
do, finding other people thateither do what you do and
connect remotely so engagingwith you know, something like
this podcast, for example,people that follow this podcast
will be in a similar space toyou. Comment on a LinkedIn post
about it, or look at who else iscommenting, and start
(07:28):
interacting digitally. So if youcan't physically like find
people close to you that tospend time with that do what you
do. Start looking online andmaking those connections
remotely, and then having theseconversations become not just
like text on LinkedIn, forexample, but then you can start
like having a quick call and acatch up, and maybe even moving
(07:50):
into a WhatsApp group. And thething with anything like this is
that you have to be proactive.You have to you can't people
aren't just going to come andknock on your door and find you,
you have to look and go out andfind them. So thinking about
what you want from these thesenetworks and these
relationships. Is it moralsupport? Is it people that do
(08:11):
what you do, but in differentphysical spaces, environments,
geographic locations, or do youjust want, like, emotional
connection, support in general,and the answers to exactly what
you want are going to help youfind the right people in the
right spaces.
Sarah McLusky (08:27):
Yeah. So what sort of advice might you give to
somebody who's thinking, Well, Idon't know what I want. I just
know that this is not it.
Jeni Smith (08:35):
Yeah. This is Yeah. I need more than this. Yeah. I
would. I would the easiest placeto start is going to be online.
There's a lot of vulnerable alot of vulnerability involved in
reaching out, putting yourselfout there, whether it's looking
to, you know, meet new friendsas adults, a lot of a struggle
to to make and maintain newfriendships. So this isn't just
(08:59):
something to do. This isn't justa work situation. This could be
a friendship thing or any kindof human connection, and there
is a lot of vulnerability inthat. So starting online, if you
are feeling a bit like, Oh, I'ma bit unsure. I'm not sure
there's a lot of safety thatcomes with being behind a screen
where we can take our time, wecan edit ourselves. We don't
have to worry about sayingsomething wrong, looking silly.
(09:20):
So starting digitally, finding,you know, searching for hashtags
associated with your work, orthe work that you do, or the
things that you're interestedin. People naturally find it
easier to connect with peoplethat they've got stuff in common
with. It's called homophily.It's the idea that birds of a
feather flock together. Sostarting, starting there where
(09:40):
you've got stuff in common,whether that's you work in the
same space, you work withinuniversities, or if you've got a
hobby that's outside of work,finding other people that have
got those common intereststhat's going to be a really
easy, nice, safe space to startto ease you into finding
connections and starting thosenew conversations.
Sarah McLusky (10:01):
yeah, I really liked your comment before, where
you said about looking for, youknow, something that you're
interested in, or that you thinkother and the other people that
you want to connect with will beinterested in, like, as you say,
for example, the podcast and andnot because I know that when you
talk, you think about somethinglike online, people are really
intimidated to, you know, postsomething. It feels very
(10:23):
vulnerable. It feels likethey're really putting
themselves out there to postsomething say on LinkedIn. But
if you go and then comment onthings, or even like, you know,
just liking things and startingyour name like it'll start your
name will start to come up,you'll start to see the same
names coming up, you know, whenyou start to think, oh, maybe
(10:44):
there's somebody who is, like,interested in the same thing
that I'm interested in. And then
Jeni Smith (10:49):
Absolutely and finding, rather than, like, just
posting something out to theworld, find digital groups. So
LinkedIn, I've got loads ofgroups. Groups are really
underutilized, I think. Butlike, finding a group that's got
a theme, you know, a topic thatyou have in common and that
you're interested in. Obviously,it's to do with your work,
supporting academia, whatever itmight be, finding groups,
(11:09):
enjoying those groups, and thenyou've got a room digitally full
of people who you know you'vegot that commonality with. You
already know that. It's kind oflike, just by default, you've
got something in common. Soagain, and then you can start
engaging in other people's postsif you're not ready to put your
own out there. I think for me,for me as well, you know, and
(11:30):
you said before about like, Oh,what if people aren't sure what
they want? This is a big one forme, because this is a big thing
in networks in general, andbuilding community. For me, it
very much starts with personal,self understanding, awareness,
knowing who you are and what youwant, will then allow you to put
(11:51):
that out to the world so otherpeople who have that in common
can find you, and if you don'tknow that, that's kind of step
one in the process of building acommunity is understanding what
your community is, who you are,so that you can find other
people similar or that like you,or that you've got things in
common with. So it's often doinga bit of like self reflection
(12:15):
and self awareness work firstknowing what it is that you want
from external relationships bybuilding that internal one
first, I think that's a reallyimportant step that people often
hop over and try and go straightinto building these big external
communities, but they're notreally sure on who they are,
what they need and what theywant, so that they kind of
(12:36):
search without ever finding whatit is. So starting, there some
really good a really good firststep as well.
Sarah McLusky (12:42):
That is, does sound like really good advice.
So are there any particulartools or practices that you've
come across that are useful fordoing that self reflection?
Jeni Smith (12:54):
You know, I do. I did an activity recently for an
event, and it was based on thisconcept around the three chairs.
And there's a MIT professorcalled Sherry Turkle who does a
lot of work on empathy, and oneof her books is called
Reclaiming Conversation. And onthe cover of the book is a
(13:15):
single chair, and it comes from,I think it was from a poem or a
story about a guy, I can'tremember his name off the top of
my head, but he talks abouthaving three chairs in his
house. One is for isolation andfor solitude, for like personal
reflection. Two is forfriendship, so that one to one
relationship, and then the thirdis for community and for
(13:38):
society. Now, often, especiallyin the world that we live in
now, we're, we're connected toso many people. There's like,
we've got that, you know, accessto literally hundreds of 1000s
of millions of people. However,because we're always entertained
through our screens and ourphones, we don't really spend
time on that singular chair. So,you know, spending time with our
(14:00):
own thoughts, no screens, nophones, nothing just having
that, that time of solitude, toprocess and build this internal
relationship with ourselves. Andonce we do that, then we can
introduce a second chair andhave these one to one
relationships. And then oncewe've nailed that, we can then
introduce the third chair. Sothe activity that I did was to
(14:22):
have people sit in silence forfive minutes, which is quite a
long time, five minutes, yeah,it's quite it's like, it's quite
gangster. So I had, like, thisroom full of people, and they
all had to kind of move theirchairs so they were a bit like
isolated. So they were just sat,and then just had them sit for
five minutes, and they wereallowed to have, like, a pen and
(14:43):
paper so they could write downthings and, you know, stuff,
ideas popped in their head orwhatever. And I think it's a bit
uncomfortable, and there's beena lot of research into this,
and, you know, I can share somestudies if, if anyone finds it
interesting, but, yeah, it'ssomething that we don't spend
time doing, which, you know,sitting with our own thoughts
we're constantly entertained, orthere's music on in the car, or
(15:05):
whatever. So my first likerecommendation to people is just
have some time on your own, likewith your own thoughts, no
technology, no music, screens,entertainment, and just see
where your brain takes. You seewhat kind of internal monologue
is happening, and just likeprocess life basically, and
schedule that into into your dayto day, so that you can start
(15:29):
building and nurturing thisinternal relationship. Once,
once you have that, then it's somuch easier to know who you are,
know what you need from externalrelationships. You're more
comfortable putting it outthere, because you know who you
are, you don't need thatexternal validation anymore. And
it's a lot easier to kind of bevulnerable and say, Look, this
(15:49):
is who I am. This is the thingsI'm passionate about. If you
feel the same, I'd love to chatto you. Becomes so much easier
to find those communities, andit ends up being the right
communities as well.
Sarah McLusky (16:00):
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense to find that inner
confidence first, because I knowone of the things you know comes
up again and again, that peopleare just scared, vulnerable,
worried about putting themselvesout there, whether it's taking
that first step and, you know,messaging somebody making a
comment on a post, you know, gointo a group and just lurking
(16:24):
for a while and not necessarilysaying anything. So that
confidence is an inside job,isn't it? It's not something
that there's no amount ofwaiting that's gonna that's
gonna magically make you feellike you're
Jeni Smith (16:40):
No you've got to put the you've got to put the work
in. I'm a massive fan oftherapy, speaking, therapy,
counselling, whatever it is. Iused a technique called the five
whys as well, which is abusiness technique that they use
to get to the crux of a problem.So, and if I'm doing something,
or, you know, whatever, I'll askmyself, like, why am I doing
this? Well, this is why, but,but why? And you ask why five
(17:02):
times. And actually, when youget to the root of it, it's
usually something absolutelyridiculous that has nothing to
do with the surface level,original, why? But once you
realize, like, this is such asilly example, but like, a year
ago, I stopped dyeing my hair,and I'm only in my 30s, but
naturally I'm now full grayhair, and when I was dying my
hair, I was like, Jeni, why areyou doing this? Because I was I
(17:24):
had to get up at five o'clock inthe morning to put chemicals on
my head and sit like an idiotfor, like, before, for half an
hour before getting in theshower. And it was ridiculous.
And I was like, why am I doingthis? I'm like, well, because
I've got gray hair. Well, what'swrong with that? Why are you
covering gray hair? Well,because, and then you get down
to it, and it's like societytells me that, as a woman, I
(17:48):
shouldn't as a, you know, itkind of devalues my value in
society, because gray hairrepresents aging, and you when
you get really into it. And Iwas like, What the hell am I
thinking, and I've never dyed myhair since, and I let it grow
out naturally. And it was quite,quite it's a long process. It
takes a lot of time. It's quitea vulnerable thing to let you
(18:10):
gray roots grow through,especially as someone in their
30s. But when I kind of reallygot to the crux of what I was
doing and why I was doing it,this kind of the self awareness
that comes from that, and thenyou end up being this more
authentic version of yourself,and more I'm more comfortable
and confident in my skin becauseof it, and I'm able to just be
(18:31):
like, well, this is just me, andpeople that like that will find
me and will become friends, andwe'll talk and we can relate to
things. So the five whys is areally good little quick hack
for figuring out what you'redoing, why you're doing it.
Yeah, that can, that can reallyhelp bring that self awareness,
and that self awareness allowsyou to, then, you know, have
(18:55):
those more authentic externalconnections, relationships,
communities as well
Sarah McLusky (19:00):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, fantastic. I mean, certainly,
when it comes to the kind ofconfidence things that I am very
guilty of, of lurking, andagain, it's one of the reasons
why I do a podcast where Iinterview other people, because
it means that it's not about me.So there's cunning ways to do
it. But also, yeah, I mean, I'vesaid before that doing the
(19:20):
podcast is like a very extremeform of networking. So you get
to trap people in a room withyou for an hour, which is
amazing.
Jeni Smith (19:26):
Love it
Sarah McLusky (19:27):
But even then, you know, it, I might come
across as confident here, likeyou were saying you went through
that really vulnerable process.The first time I published the
podcast, I thought I was goingto be sick. I had to, like, get
up, leave the house, you know,go for a walk, because it was so
scary to just, like, putsomething out there. So even the
(19:48):
people that you see who seemlike they've got it all together
and they're really confident,it's
Jeni Smith (19:53):
Absolutely but like, if you were to ask yourself
those five whys, like, Why? Whywas that so scary for you, and
then, like getting into thereasoning behind it, to
understand it's after this fearof judgment or the social
rejection fear, or, you know,there's loads of different
things that it could potentiallybe, but once you understand it
and you're aware of it, then itcan't control you anymore, which
(20:16):
is a really powerful thing, andthe fact that you did that
anyway is amazing, and you'venow able to help all these
people by sharing, you know, allthis, these stories and
narratives and knowledge andstuff. It's just, it's awesome.
You should be very proud.
Sarah McLusky (20:29):
Ah thank you. So well, I think going on from
right, yeah, so let's thinkabout the next stage in this
journey. You've found somepeople, they seem like the right
kind of people,
Jeni Smith (20:41):
yeah
Sarah McLusky (20:41):
But I think everybody's had that experience
of where, you know, you maybemeet somebody at an event, you
know, you exchange emailaddresses, or you follow each
other on LinkedIn, but then, youknow, how
Jeni Smith (20:56):
It dwindles
Sarah McLusky (20:57):
It dwindles, yeah, yeah. How do we keep those
relationships,
Jeni Smith (21:02):
That momentum going? Yeah, I always think of this
like either healthy eating,going to the gym, whatever, you
know, people, we know that weneed to do it. The thing, the
big thing, is this consistency,the idea of being consistent, so
nurturing, you know, findingpeople's one thing, but then
nurturing those relationships.That takes time. It takes
energy. It takes consistency. Ittakes time to build trust. The
(21:26):
best, the quickest way to dothat is spending time in person
with someone. So if you can findpeople who are geographically
close to you, so you canphysically get together, create
a rhythm or a routine, that's anice one. You know, we talked,
you know, talked at thebeginning about, you know,
academics have got all theseconferences they can go to, and
events that they can attend andstuff like that. But there's not
(21:46):
really much for the supportnetworks. But there's
opportunity. That means there'sopportunity there for people to
potentially create their ownnetworks, to put in, you know,
say, to say to people, look evenhot desking. This is, I think
hot desking is such a wonderfulway to network. And there's a
great guy in the North Eastcalled Chris, he's a
photographer, and he calls itslow networking. He puts on
(22:08):
events where you come along, youjust bring your computer, and
you can just work from a sharedspace for on a certain day. So
if you can be the catalyst andlike, say to people in your
network look on if you know, thefirst Friday of every month I'm
going to work from this cafe. Ifyou want to come along and just
work there, then it means it'snot as networky. It's not
(22:29):
pressured, you don't have to,kind of like, make small talk,
put your headphones in if youwant, but you're not on your
own. It gets you out of thehouse, and you're physically
spending time in the same, youknow, space, the presence of
another person, which allows youto really build that depth of
connection, that trust, beingclose to each other. So often
again, it's about beingproactive. If there's nothing
(22:50):
available for you to go to thinkabout potentially doing
something like that yourself andputting it out there. But it
does take consistency. It takestime, and one of the things that
we all struggle with is time.You know, everyone's busy.
There's a lot of things goingon, so it does have to be
prioritized. In the same way,you've got to prioritize going
to the gym, you've got toprioritize healthy living or
(23:13):
whatever it is that you'retrying to achieve, you've got to
prioritize it. So finding arhythm and a system that works
for you, whether that's, this isa fun little example, but my mam
is one of seven kids, so mygrandparents, I know. My
grandparents, they were, theywere missionaries in South
Africa, so they were obviously,like, you know, religious
(23:34):
people. And my my grandma, shehad a different day of the week
for each child that she wouldhave a call or, like, pray for
them on a different day of theweek. So my mam's day was
Thursday, so she would alwayshave a call with her mom on a
Thursday, which I thought waslovely. So if you can find,
like, a rhythm, if you've gotlike five people in your network
(23:54):
that you really want to nurturerelationships with first week of
the month, you know, have acatch up or send an email or
text message to that person thenext week, it's the next but you
know, something like that thatworks for you, that allows you
to get into a rhythm, keeps youat the forefront of the other
person's mind because they'rebusy as well, and then gives you
(24:14):
that opportunity to nurturerelationships.
Sarah McLusky (24:17):
Yeah, and certainly, there's no shame in
putting something like that onyour to do list, because I do
that
Jeni Smith (24:24):
I'm awful for texting, messaging, my friends
will tell you I am really bad,so I have to, like, sit down at,
you know, at the end of the day,my little ones in bed, you know,
TV on in the background, andI'll sit down, and then I'll go
through messages and reply toeveryone in one go, because I
can't do it throughout the daybecause it just disconnects my
day. It's different. So it'sjust finding out again, once you
(24:46):
know what works for you build itinto your routine, whether it's
a to do list or a, you know, aset an alarm, a reminder, or
whatever it is, and then you
Sarah McLusky (24:54):
say whether you do it on a particular day of the
week, something like thatt
Jeni Smith (24:57):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Yeah, oh, well,
Sarah McLusky (25:01):
that's a good advice then as well. And, and I
think I love that idea of makingit like taking the pressure off
a little bit. I think peoplethink they have to organize, you
know, some big networkingmeeting, or, you know, some sort
of a seminar. But what oftenhappens then is you you cram the
time with stuff that feelsproductive and don't leave
(25:25):
enough space for theconversations, whereas, if you
make it something informal,like, yeah, like you say a co
working day or something likethat, and, and, you know, and I
think that is the way a lot ofuniversities and places that
that have gone now, is thatpeople don't have fixed desks
anymore. They just have, like,a, you know, a space. You can
book a desk and come in oncertain days. So, you know,
(25:48):
maybe just arranging like, Oh,should we all go in on Wednesday
and then we'll have lunchtogether, even like that.
Jeni Smith (25:54):
Yeah. I mean, Durham University, the business school
where I'm based, the newbusiness school, and they've got
a cafe area, and it's open tothe public as well as being open
to obviously, you know, people,students, academics, whatever.
So doing something within aninstitution that you work with,
if you're external, or if you'rewithin a university, putting
(26:15):
something out to othercolleagues and saying, Look,
does anyone want to I'm going tohot I'm going to be hot desk.
Don't even ask. Does anyone wantto just tell them I will be here
on this day. Everyone iswelcome. Bring your laptop,
bring your lunch box, or we'llget something from the cafe, or
whatever. This day, betweenthese hours, I'll be there and
just go and then, you know,there might be time where no one
(26:37):
comes, but it doesn't matter.You're just sat working anyway,
so it doesn't feel as likeyou're sat waiting for anyone.
You're not. You're just satworking from a public space. So
but then people will come. Ithink the fact that you know we
were chatting before Sarah andlike this is such a common theme
that is coming out, I think itis very much like build it and
(27:00):
they will come. Because peopledo want this. They are craving
this. They want that humanconnection. It's just who's
going to be the person to putthemselves out there to to pick
it, pick it off, really,
Sarah McLusky (27:12):
Yeah, and I think, and that's we do. It's
almost a call to that, isn't it.We need some people who are
willing to be the ones who aregoing to stand up and organize
it
Jeni Smith (27:19):
Be a leader
Sarah McLusky (27:20):
Being somebody who's just done that myself. So
yeah, for people who don't know,there is now a little, a little
community for research-adjacentfreelancers. For exactly this
reason, I just was it keptcoming up with people I was
talking to, and I thought, well,if nobody else is going to build
it, I will
Jeni Smith (27:36):
They're the best. They're the most authentic ones.
It's not from you're not comingfrom a place of like, Oh, if I
get all these people together, Ican sell them this. It's not
like that. It's like, literally,people are telling me they want
this, and I've got this networkof people that I've got access
to. I'm just going to put it outthere and see what happens, and
that they're the ones and thatreally, like, have the, the most
(27:59):
authentic power. And I love, Ilove those kinds of networks,
yeah.
Sarah McLusky (28:03):
Oh, so go out there, make your if it doesn't
exist, then make it yourself.And I think certainly we're in
that it's almost like hangover,isn't it, from COVID is yeah,
when COVID hit and everybodywent into their homes and and
suddenly the idea of workingfrom home, hybrid working, felt
really liberating. But then nowwe're four years, five years
(28:26):
down the line, and and peopleare starting to be like, yeah,
actually, I wish I got a house abit more
Jeni Smith (28:32):
It's a bit lonely. I forgot I had to talk to people.
Sarah McLusky (28:34):
Yeah,
Jeni Smith (28:35):
No, yeah. And it's got, I think, I think there's,
there's pros and cons. Thenovelty, like you said, has worn
off, I think for a lot ofpeople, and it's impacting
people's like, social skills andconfidence, but it's also
impacting their their sense ofconnection, especially, you
know, people like myself. I justwork. I've, you know, run my
business, but it's just me, soI'm and I need that, that
(28:59):
connection, so I need toproactively go out, talk to
people, hot desk. I'll sit inthe coffee at the uni all the
time, and you just chat topeople walking by, and you get,
I get to know the people thatwork there and stuff as well as
you know, seeing people Ialready know. So it's, it is,
it's a proactive choice I thinkthat you have to make. And it
can feel scary and vulnerable,but it's so worth it. All the
(29:22):
good stuff comes fromvulnerability, as well as the
some of the scary stuff,
Sarah McLusky (29:26):
Yeah, oh, you're even giving me a nudge for some
of these. I should probably dosomething and say, yeah. I'll be
yeah here on this day come andhave a chat.
Yeah rather than eh fantastic.So I think another thing that
comes up often with people inthis community is finding
(29:47):
somebody who can be a bit of amentor for them, whether that's
formally or informally. I thinkone thing I've I've found
interesting the more I thoughtabout this, is that there are
different kinds of mentoringrelationships. So there's,
there's times when I've been inorganizations where I've been
assigned like a formal mentor,right? But it just didn't quite
(30:10):
gel in that. And not that therewas anything like they were
people who had amazing insights,but it just finding a way to
prioritize that relationship, Iguess again, was was challenging
on both sides. But thensometimes mentors, well, I don't
know, tell us. Tell Tell us yourthoughts on mentors.
Jeni Smith (30:31):
No I'm a big fan of mentorship. I've experienced it
from different perspectives, asa mentor, as a mentee. I think
there's different ways to goabout it. You are totally right.
It has to be the right fit, andit's a very personal
relationship. So it has to besomeone that you admire, that
you know, that it has to be theright social connection between
(30:56):
the two people. So this is wherethe it can become problematic if
you are just assigned someone asa mentor. I think there's
different, there's a couple ofdifferent ways to go about it.
As you said, prioritizing is isdifficult because people are
busy, so it has to be mutuallybeneficial. I feel like
(31:16):
relationship. There's either thepeer to peer mentorship, where
you network and meet someone,and the two of you kind of
connect, and you've got thingsthat you can learn from each
other. So you both have thiskind of equality within the
relationship and the dynamic.And then you put something a
rhythm, whether it's likemeeting up every month, or
having a call once a month justto check in, or whatever it is,
(31:39):
I think there's also a lot ofspace for paying for mentorship,
which is a different dynamic,but it really it gives
commitment, obviously on bothsides of that dynamic. It's
something that I doprofessionally for not for for
academics or anything, but forbusiness people. I'll mentor
them one to one. It's a paidservice. It's something I really
(32:02):
love doing, and it means that Idon't feel like I'm giving up my
time. Obviously, as a as a busyperson, you've got, you have to
kind of get that return. So itallows me to do something I
love, and obviously get paid formy time, which is brilliant, and
helping people one to one. Sothere's also an option of that
and finding a mentor. Itdepends, again, what you need
(32:23):
from that mentor relationship.If it's just someone to like for
that that support and to getideas from, then that's one
thing. If it is more like youwant, bit more like outputs and
coaching, almost, and that's adifferent thing. So again, I
think starting with what it isthat you want, and then finding
that right fit. And you mighthave to try a few different
(32:45):
people first to find the rightfit, but being open to it. So
when you are going out,networking more in general,
whether that's events,conferences, hot desking, just
having conversations withpeople, having at the forefront
of your mind when you engagewith new people. Like is this
someone that I could see thatworking with, or if there's
someone that you've already gotin mind, that you admire, and
(33:06):
you they're like, further downthe path than you, and you would
love to get their insights andtheir experience, reach out to
them and say, Look, I would loveto to explore like you, becoming
a bit of a mentor. And is thatan option for you? What might
that look like for you? And, youknow, just let me know and see
where that conversation goes aswell.
Sarah McLusky (33:27):
Yeah I think as well. Something that's, that's,
I've realized is a lot of thepeople who are almost mentors to
me aren't even like they're sofar down the line that I have no
access to, you know what I mean?So people like authors,
podcasters, you know, I'velearned so much from
Jeni Smith (33:44):
Yeah, yeah from the content
Sarah McLusky (33:47):
Yeah that they've put out in the world. And so
mentors doesn't always evennecessarily need to be a real
life human being who's in yourspace. Yeah.
Jeni Smith (33:57):
It could just be, yeah, you're right. Finding
those people that you admirethat are doing things that you
think you want to do you aspireto do, or that you just think
are really cool and then, likemaking sure that you are
surrounding yourself with theircontent, with their Yeah,
absolutely so, it could just bemore of a consumption of of
information and stuff, ratherthan having those one to one
(34:19):
relationships.
Sarah McLusky (34:20):
Rekationships yeah. I mean, obviously the
relationships are great if youcan find them, but if you can't
find them, then
Jeni Smith (34:25):
In the interim, absolutely. But I think the
first thing, yeah, figuring outwhat you want from that mentor
mentee relationship there mightbe. I used to volunteer as a
mentor for the Girls Network,which is a great charity. So
there's potentially likeorganizations like that. That
was for 16 to 18 year olds. Soit's a bit different, but there
could be some professionalnetworks that mentorship is
(34:45):
included. So looking to maybeengage with networking
organizations, if again, italigns with what you're looking
for. And sometimes you can getmore structured mentorship
access for free. It's people whoare further down the line?
Sarah McLusky (35:01):
Yeah.
Jeni Smith (35:01):
So there's different organizations out there, so it's
having a look for them as well
Sarah McLusky (35:04):
Yeah, yeah, definitely something to look
into. Fantastic. Well, I thinkwe should probably think about
wrapping up at thisconversation. It's been helpful
for me, if nothing else, hasgiven me ideas. But I'm sure
people will find that really,really useful. So if people are
looking for one thing that youdo do is you offer a directory
of networking events and thingsdon't you for events? Yeah, for
(35:26):
something like that. Do you wantto tell us a little bit about that?
Jeni Smith (35:29):
Yeah, absolutely. So one thing that came out of
conversations with creatingstrategies for people and stuff
is people never, or theystruggle to find networking
events, or which ones are theright ones for them. So I've
built a website, a platformcalled Networkwhere.com and it
brings together all thenetworking events that
happening. Currently it coversthe North East, Tees Valley and
(35:50):
Cumbria, but it's free forpeople to put events on there,
as well as free for people toaccess to find events. So if
anyone's hosting events furtherafield, they can put it on there
for free and advertise it.There's nearly 500 users on
there, which is great, but itjust means people can quickly
find events and they can filterthem based on topic and theme.
So if you are looking to findthat community of people with
(36:12):
common interests, you canquickly filter networking
opportunities or co-workingdays, workshops based on topic
and theme as well as locationand stuff like that. So it's
really easy, accessible to use,and it's a free resource so
hopefully it's helpful forpeople,
Sarah McLusky (36:26):
Yeah, yeah. And I think especially, as you say,
there's not much on there at themoment that covers the kind it's
a lot of businessy sort ofstuff, isn't it? Well, it's
quite mixed, isn't it? But,yeah, yeah.
Jeni Smith (36:36):
You know a mixture of the universities doing things
on there with the externalengagement, which are like
mixture for academics and nonacademics. So if you want to
engage with academia, eventhough you're not an academic,
that's you know, there'soptions, and there's events for
that as well. So yeah, there's abig mishmash of stuff, women
only events, all kind of crafts,wine, all kinds of stuff. Yes,
(36:59):
excellent.
Sarah McLusky (37:00):
Just sort your social life out there.
Jeni Smith (37:03):
Absolutely. Yeah,
Sarah McLusky (37:06):
Fantastic. Oh, well, thanks very much, Jeni for
coming along. I'll put all thoselinks and things in the show
notes and yeah, it's been reallyfun, useful conversation.
Jeni Smith (37:17):
Thanks so much for having me Sarah.
Sarah McLusky (37:23):
Thanks for listening to Research Adjacent.
If you're listening in a podcastapp, please check you're
subscribed and then use thelinks in the episode description
to find full show notes andfollow the podcast on LinkedIn
or Instagram. You can also findall the links and other episodes
at www.researchadjacent.com.Research Adjacent is presented
(37:44):
and produced by Sarah McLusky,and the theme music is by Lemon
Music Studios on Pixabay. Andyou, yes you, get a big gold
star for listening right to theend. See you next time.
People do want this. They are craving this. They want
that human connection. You haveto be proactive. People aren't
just going to come and knock onyour door and find you. You have
to look and go out and findthem. Finding people is one
thing, but then nurturing thoserelationships that takes time.
It takes energy. It takesconsistency. It takes time to
(00:20):
build trust.
Sarah McLusky (00:22):
Hello there. I'm Sarah McLusky, and this is
Research Adjacent. Each episode,I talk to amazing
research-adjacent professionalsabout what they do and why it
makes a difference. Keeplistening to find out why we
think the research-adjacentspace is where the real magic
happens.
(00:44):
Hello and welcome to ResearchAdjacent. This episode is the
third in our Challenges miniseries where, with my guests,
I'm exploring some of the stickysituations and mindset gremlins
are common for research-adjacentprofessionals. So far, we've
covered imposter moments andnavigating change. And if you
haven't listened to these theseepisodes already, then make sure
you add them to your listeningqueue. And while you're at it,
(01:06):
I'd love it if you could makesure that you're subscribed to
the podcast or even take aminute to write a review. This
podcast is a real labor of love,and it's created with a mission
to make life just a little bitbetter for people like you. And
so doing tiny things likefollowing the podcast or liking
social media posts can make ahuge difference to how many
people hear about the show andhow many people we can help. So
(01:27):
back to today's episode. I'mdelighted to welcome back
previous guest, Jeni Smith. Jeniis an academic networking
expert, and you can hear allabout how she got into this work
in Episode 56. I wanted to getJeni back on to talk about her
specialist subject, because somany research-adjacent
professionals I speak to arelonely at work. It might be due
to remote working, being theonly research adjacent on a
(01:50):
research team, or just a lack ofprofessional networks to tap
into. It seems like lots of usare finding it hard to make and
maintain connections these days.So Jeni is here to give us some
simple strategies, and I promisethey don't involve anything
sleazy. We talk about why selfreflection is a good place to
start, how to find people likeyou, and how to nurture those
(02:10):
relationships and give themspace to grow. And speaking of
which, if you're listening tothis as a self-employed
research-adjacent folk, then Ihave a friendly community just
for you. Jeni and I talk alittle bit about the research
adjacent community in theepisode, and it's for
freelancers and small businessowners and I started it to
provide exactly the kind ofsupport that me and Jeni talk
(02:32):
about. And Jeni and I are bothmembers, along with lots of
other brilliant, like mindedpeople. So if you want to find
out more, you'll find a link inthe show notes. But for now, on
with the episode. Listen on tostart finding your community.
Welcome back to the podcast.Jeni, it's lovely to have you
(02:53):
here again and to come back andtalk a bit more about your
specialist subject, networkingand communities. So to begin
with, could you just give us avery quick recap for people who
maybe haven't listened to yourlast episode, but what it is
that you do?
Jeni Smith (03:08):
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me back.
Firstly, so my passion in life,slash obsession, is networking,
and that comes out in two mainways. Firstly, I help teach
networking skills to people, soacademics, businesses and
students, teaching them how tonetwork, giving them the tools
and confidence. And then I'malso a PhD student, so I'm doing
(03:30):
my PhD research in networks aswell. So I kind of come at it
from two angles,
Sarah McLusky (03:34):
Yeah, so really, lots of knowledge about this
area, and that's the reason whyI wanted to get you back on the
podcast, because this episode isgoing out as part of series.
It's going to be a specialseries looking at some of the
big challenges that faceprofessionals who are working in
a research adjacent space. Sothat's people who are not doing
(03:54):
the research themselves, but areworking with and alongside and
in some way helping the researchto happen. And there's a real
divide in a lot oforganizations, not all, but a
lot of organizations where theresearchers have loads of
opportunities to connect andnetwork. There's conferences,
there's training courses,there's, you know, they have
(04:17):
like seminars and meetings andthings like that, whereas the
people who are working alongsidethem don't get nearly the same
opportunities. And then there isalso the fact that often people
who are doing so somebody, forexample, who's a project manager
for a research team, they mightbe the only person who is not a
(04:40):
researcher in a team of 10people, so the people that
they're working with day to daydon't understand what they're
doing. Sometimes there's even alittle bit of antagonism towards
the work that they're doing.Yeah, so there's the case that
often people are the only one intheir team. They might also.
(05:00):
There's people who are researchadjacent often work from home as
well, at least for a large partof their time, so they're not
getting that social interactionof just maybe being in the
office. And there's people,again, who just, you know, you
see kind of coming and going.And then, as I say, there's a
lack of these events, trainingopportunities, places where they
(05:21):
might find that they would gettogether with other research
agent professionals. There aresome, but not loads, and so
that's some of the problemsfacing them. So I'm hoping that
we can have a conversation todayabout how to tackle some of
those issues.
Jeni Smith (05:37):
Absolutely. Yeah, love this. Let's, let's, let's
fix it.
Sarah McLusky (05:40):
Yeah brilliant. So, I mean, one of the first
things that's going to be isgoing to be, if somebody is in
this situation, they're theyfeel that they're a bit stuck at
work, a bit lonely, not managingto find people to talk to, who
get it where, where do theystart?
Jeni Smith (06:01):
Yeah I think there's a couple of things, firstly, to
consider thinking about whetheror not someone is employed
within the institution, or ifthey're freelancer and they like
sell into multiple institutions,it's going to be a slight
difference there. So someone whois if you are employed, I would
start off with your employer,engage with the wider
(06:21):
University, with theinstitution, and see what kind
of social networks they've got.And it doesn't have to be
finding someone that does theexact same job as you. I would
start by looking like close tohome. It's going to be
accessible in terms of travel,so you get that in person stuff
as well. Like you said, thatthat hybrid working, or that
remote working is having amassive impact across the board
(06:43):
for people, and in regards tomental emotional health, that
feeling of isolation that it'shard to keep up momentum with
work when you feel isolated,because you kind of carry that
by yourself so physically,getting out of the home office,
going to your place ofemployment if you are employed,
alternatively, if you're not, ifyou like, work as an external
(07:07):
and sell into differentinstitutions, which is what I
do, finding other people thateither do what you do and
connect remotely so engagingwith you know, something like
this podcast, for example,people that follow this podcast
will be in a similar space toyou. Comment on a LinkedIn post
about it, or look at who else iscommenting, and start
(07:28):
interacting digitally. So if youcan't physically like find
people close to you that tospend time with that do what you
do. Start looking online andmaking those connections
remotely, and then having theseconversations become not just
like text on LinkedIn, forexample, but then you can start
like having a quick call and acatch up, and maybe even moving
(07:50):
into a WhatsApp group. And thething with anything like this is
that you have to be proactive.You have to you can't people
aren't just going to come andknock on your door and find you,
you have to look and go out andfind them. So thinking about
what you want from these thesenetworks and these
relationships. Is it moralsupport? Is it people that do
(08:11):
what you do, but in differentphysical spaces, environments,
geographic locations, or do youjust want, like, emotional
connection, support in general,and the answers to exactly what
you want are going to help youfind the right people in the
right spaces.
Sarah McLusky (08:27):
Yeah. So what sort of advice might you give to
somebody who's thinking, Well, Idon't know what I want. I just
know that this is not it.
Jeni Smith (08:35):
Yeah. This is Yeah. I need more than this. Yeah. I
would. I would the easiest placeto start is going to be online.
There's a lot of vulnerable alot of vulnerability involved in
reaching out, putting yourselfout there, whether it's looking
to, you know, meet new friendsas adults, a lot of a struggle
to to make and maintain newfriendships. So this isn't just
(08:59):
something to do. This isn't justa work situation. This could be
a friendship thing or any kindof human connection, and there
is a lot of vulnerability inthat. So starting online, if you
are feeling a bit like, Oh, I'ma bit unsure. I'm not sure
there's a lot of safety thatcomes with being behind a screen
where we can take our time, wecan edit ourselves. We don't
have to worry about sayingsomething wrong, looking silly.
(09:20):
So starting digitally, finding,you know, searching for hashtags
associated with your work, orthe work that you do, or the
things that you're interestedin. People naturally find it
easier to connect with peoplethat they've got stuff in common
with. It's called homophily.It's the idea that birds of a
feather flock together. Sostarting, starting there where
(09:40):
you've got stuff in common,whether that's you work in the
same space, you work withinuniversities, or if you've got a
hobby that's outside of work,finding other people that have
got those common intereststhat's going to be a really
easy, nice, safe space to startto ease you into finding
connections and starting thosenew conversations.
Sarah McLusky (10:01):
yeah, I really liked your comment before, where
you said about looking for, youknow, something that you're
interested in, or that you thinkother and the other people that
you want to connect with will beinterested in, like, as you say,
for example, the podcast and andnot because I know that when you
talk, you think about somethinglike online, people are really
intimidated to, you know, postsomething. It feels very
(10:23):
vulnerable. It feels likethey're really putting
themselves out there to postsomething say on LinkedIn. But
if you go and then comment onthings, or even like, you know,
just liking things and startingyour name like it'll start your
name will start to come up,you'll start to see the same
names coming up, you know, whenyou start to think, oh, maybe
(10:44):
there's somebody who is, like,interested in the same thing
that I'm interested in. And then
Jeni Smith (10:49):
Absolutely and finding, rather than, like, just
posting something out to theworld, find digital groups. So
LinkedIn, I've got loads ofgroups. Groups are really
underutilized, I think. Butlike, finding a group that's got
a theme, you know, a topic thatyou have in common and that
you're interested in. Obviously,it's to do with your work,
supporting academia, whatever itmight be, finding groups,
(11:09):
enjoying those groups, and thenyou've got a room digitally full
of people who you know you'vegot that commonality with. You
already know that. It's kind oflike, just by default, you've
got something in common. Soagain, and then you can start
engaging in other people's postsif you're not ready to put your
own out there. I think for me,for me as well, you know, and
(11:30):
you said before about like, Oh,what if people aren't sure what
they want? This is a big one forme, because this is a big thing
in networks in general, andbuilding community. For me, it
very much starts with personal,self understanding, awareness,
knowing who you are and what youwant, will then allow you to put
(11:51):
that out to the world so otherpeople who have that in common
can find you, and if you don'tknow that, that's kind of step
one in the process of building acommunity is understanding what
your community is, who you are,so that you can find other
people similar or that like you,or that you've got things in
common with. So it's often doinga bit of like self reflection
(12:15):
and self awareness work firstknowing what it is that you want
from external relationships bybuilding that internal one
first, I think that's a reallyimportant step that people often
hop over and try and go straightinto building these big external
communities, but they're notreally sure on who they are,
what they need and what theywant, so that they kind of
(12:36):
search without ever finding whatit is. So starting, there some
really good a really good firststep as well.
Sarah McLusky (12:42):
That is, does sound like really good advice.
So are there any particulartools or practices that you've
come across that are useful fordoing that self reflection?
Jeni Smith (12:54):
You know, I do. I did an activity recently for an
event, and it was based on thisconcept around the three chairs.
And there's a MIT professorcalled Sherry Turkle who does a
lot of work on empathy, and oneof her books is called
Reclaiming Conversation. And onthe cover of the book is a
(13:15):
single chair, and it comes from,I think it was from a poem or a
story about a guy, I can'tremember his name off the top of
my head, but he talks abouthaving three chairs in his
house. One is for isolation andfor solitude, for like personal
reflection. Two is forfriendship, so that one to one
relationship, and then the thirdis for community and for
(13:38):
society. Now, often, especiallyin the world that we live in
now, we're, we're connected toso many people. There's like,
we've got that, you know, accessto literally hundreds of 1000s
of millions of people. However,because we're always entertained
through our screens and ourphones, we don't really spend
time on that singular chair. So,you know, spending time with our
(14:00):
own thoughts, no screens, nophones, nothing just having
that, that time of solitude, toprocess and build this internal
relationship with ourselves. Andonce we do that, then we can
introduce a second chair andhave these one to one
relationships. And then oncewe've nailed that, we can then
introduce the third chair. Sothe activity that I did was to
(14:22):
have people sit in silence forfive minutes, which is quite a
long time, five minutes, yeah,it's quite it's like, it's quite
gangster. So I had, like, thisroom full of people, and they
all had to kind of move theirchairs so they were a bit like
isolated. So they were just sat,and then just had them sit for
five minutes, and they wereallowed to have, like, a pen and
(14:43):
paper so they could write downthings and, you know, stuff,
ideas popped in their head orwhatever. And I think it's a bit
uncomfortable, and there's beena lot of research into this,
and, you know, I can share somestudies if, if anyone finds it
interesting, but, yeah, it'ssomething that we don't spend
time doing, which, you know,sitting with our own thoughts
we're constantly entertained, orthere's music on in the car, or
(15:05):
whatever. So my first likerecommendation to people is just
have some time on your own, likewith your own thoughts, no
technology, no music, screens,entertainment, and just see
where your brain takes. You seewhat kind of internal monologue
is happening, and just likeprocess life basically, and
schedule that into into your dayto day, so that you can start
(15:29):
building and nurturing thisinternal relationship. Once,
once you have that, then it's somuch easier to know who you are,
know what you need from externalrelationships. You're more
comfortable putting it outthere, because you know who you
are, you don't need thatexternal validation anymore. And
it's a lot easier to kind of bevulnerable and say, Look, this
(15:49):
is who I am. This is the thingsI'm passionate about. If you
feel the same, I'd love to chatto you. Becomes so much easier
to find those communities, andit ends up being the right
communities as well.
Sarah McLusky (16:00):
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense to find that inner
confidence first, because I knowone of the things you know comes
up again and again, that peopleare just scared, vulnerable,
worried about putting themselvesout there, whether it's taking
that first step and, you know,messaging somebody making a
comment on a post, you know, gointo a group and just lurking
(16:24):
for a while and not necessarilysaying anything. So that
confidence is an inside job,isn't it? It's not something
that there's no amount ofwaiting that's gonna that's
gonna magically make you feellike you're
Jeni Smith (16:40):
No you've got to put the you've got to put the work
in. I'm a massive fan oftherapy, speaking, therapy,
counselling, whatever it is. Iused a technique called the five
whys as well, which is abusiness technique that they use
to get to the crux of a problem.So, and if I'm doing something,
or, you know, whatever, I'll askmyself, like, why am I doing
this? Well, this is why, but,but why? And you ask why five
(17:02):
times. And actually, when youget to the root of it, it's
usually something absolutelyridiculous that has nothing to
do with the surface level,original, why? But once you
realize, like, this is such asilly example, but like, a year
ago, I stopped dyeing my hair,and I'm only in my 30s, but
naturally I'm now full grayhair, and when I was dying my
hair, I was like, Jeni, why areyou doing this? Because I was I
(17:24):
had to get up at five o'clock inthe morning to put chemicals on
my head and sit like an idiotfor, like, before, for half an
hour before getting in theshower. And it was ridiculous.
And I was like, why am I doingthis? I'm like, well, because
I've got gray hair. Well, what'swrong with that? Why are you
covering gray hair? Well,because, and then you get down
to it, and it's like societytells me that, as a woman, I
(17:48):
shouldn't as a, you know, itkind of devalues my value in
society, because gray hairrepresents aging, and you when
you get really into it. And Iwas like, What the hell am I
thinking, and I've never dyed myhair since, and I let it grow
out naturally. And it was quite,quite it's a long process. It
takes a lot of time. It's quitea vulnerable thing to let you
(18:10):
gray roots grow through,especially as someone in their
30s. But when I kind of reallygot to the crux of what I was
doing and why I was doing it,this kind of the self awareness
that comes from that, and thenyou end up being this more
authentic version of yourself,and more I'm more comfortable
and confident in my skin becauseof it, and I'm able to just be
(18:31):
like, well, this is just me, andpeople that like that will find
me and will become friends, andwe'll talk and we can relate to
things. So the five whys is areally good little quick hack
for figuring out what you'redoing, why you're doing it.
Yeah, that can, that can reallyhelp bring that self awareness,
and that self awareness allowsyou to, then, you know, have
(18:55):
those more authentic externalconnections, relationships,
communities as well
Sarah McLusky (19:00):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, fantastic. I mean, certainly,
when it comes to the kind ofconfidence things that I am very
guilty of, of lurking, andagain, it's one of the reasons
why I do a podcast where Iinterview other people, because
it means that it's not about me.So there's cunning ways to do
it. But also, yeah, I mean, I'vesaid before that doing the
(19:20):
podcast is like a very extremeform of networking. So you get
to trap people in a room withyou for an hour, which is
amazing.
Jeni Smith (19:26):
Love it
Sarah McLusky (19:27):
But even then, you know, it, I might come
across as confident here, likeyou were saying you went through
that really vulnerable process.The first time I published the
podcast, I thought I was goingto be sick. I had to, like, get
up, leave the house, you know,go for a walk, because it was so
scary to just, like, putsomething out there. So even the
(19:48):
people that you see who seemlike they've got it all together
and they're really confident,it's
Jeni Smith (19:53):
Absolutely but like, if you were to ask yourself
those five whys, like, Why? Whywas that so scary for you, and
then, like getting into thereasoning behind it, to
understand it's after this fearof judgment or the social
rejection fear, or, you know,there's loads of different
things that it could potentiallybe, but once you understand it
and you're aware of it, then itcan't control you anymore, which
(20:16):
is a really powerful thing, andthe fact that you did that
anyway is amazing, and you'venow able to help all these
people by sharing, you know, allthis, these stories and
narratives and knowledge andstuff. It's just, it's awesome.
You should be very proud.
Sarah McLusky (20:29):
Ah thank you. So well, I think going on from
right, yeah, so let's thinkabout the next stage in this
journey. You've found somepeople, they seem like the right
kind of people,
Jeni Smith (20:41):
yeah
Sarah McLusky (20:41):
But I think everybody's had that experience
of where, you know, you maybemeet somebody at an event, you
know, you exchange emailaddresses, or you follow each
other on LinkedIn, but then, youknow, how
Jeni Smith (20:56):
It dwindles
Sarah McLusky (20:57):
It dwindles, yeah, yeah. How do we keep those
relationships,
Jeni Smith (21:02):
That momentum going? Yeah, I always think of this
like either healthy eating,going to the gym, whatever, you
know, people, we know that weneed to do it. The thing, the
big thing, is this consistency,the idea of being consistent, so
nurturing, you know, findingpeople's one thing, but then
nurturing those relationships.That takes time. It takes
energy. It takes consistency. Ittakes time to build trust. The
(21:26):
best, the quickest way to dothat is spending time in person
with someone. So if you can findpeople who are geographically
close to you, so you canphysically get together, create
a rhythm or a routine, that's anice one. You know, we talked,
you know, talked at thebeginning about, you know,
academics have got all theseconferences they can go to, and
events that they can attend andstuff like that. But there's not
(21:46):
really much for the supportnetworks. But there's
opportunity. That means there'sopportunity there for people to
potentially create their ownnetworks, to put in, you know,
say, to say to people, look evenhot desking. This is, I think
hot desking is such a wonderfulway to network. And there's a
great guy in the North Eastcalled Chris, he's a
photographer, and he calls itslow networking. He puts on
(22:08):
events where you come along, youjust bring your computer, and
you can just work from a sharedspace for on a certain day. So
if you can be the catalyst andlike, say to people in your
network look on if you know, thefirst Friday of every month I'm
going to work from this cafe. Ifyou want to come along and just
work there, then it means it'snot as networky. It's not
(22:29):
pressured, you don't have to,kind of like, make small talk,
put your headphones in if youwant, but you're not on your
own. It gets you out of thehouse, and you're physically
spending time in the same, youknow, space, the presence of
another person, which allows youto really build that depth of
connection, that trust, beingclose to each other. So often
again, it's about beingproactive. If there's nothing
(22:50):
available for you to go to thinkabout potentially doing
something like that yourself andputting it out there. But it
does take consistency. It takestime, and one of the things that
we all struggle with is time.You know, everyone's busy.
There's a lot of things goingon, so it does have to be
prioritized. In the same way,you've got to prioritize going
to the gym, you've got toprioritize healthy living or
(23:13):
whatever it is that you'retrying to achieve, you've got to
prioritize it. So finding arhythm and a system that works
for you, whether that's, this isa fun little example, but my mam
is one of seven kids, so mygrandparents, I know. My
grandparents, they were, theywere missionaries in South
Africa, so they were obviously,like, you know, religious
(23:34):
people. And my my grandma, shehad a different day of the week
for each child that she wouldhave a call or, like, pray for
them on a different day of theweek. So my mam's day was
Thursday, so she would alwayshave a call with her mom on a
Thursday, which I thought waslovely. So if you can find,
like, a rhythm, if you've gotlike five people in your network
(23:54):
that you really want to nurturerelationships with first week of
the month, you know, have acatch up or send an email or
text message to that person thenext week, it's the next but you
know, something like that thatworks for you, that allows you
to get into a rhythm, keeps youat the forefront of the other
person's mind because they'rebusy as well, and then gives you
(24:14):
that opportunity to nurturerelationships.
Sarah McLusky (24:17):
Yeah, and certainly, there's no shame in
putting something like that onyour to do list, because I do
that
Jeni Smith (24:24):
I'm awful for texting, messaging, my friends
will tell you I am really bad,so I have to, like, sit down at,
you know, at the end of the day,my little ones in bed, you know,
TV on in the background, andI'll sit down, and then I'll go
through messages and reply toeveryone in one go, because I
can't do it throughout the daybecause it just disconnects my
day. It's different. So it'sjust finding out again, once you
(24:46):
know what works for you build itinto your routine, whether it's
a to do list or a, you know, aset an alarm, a reminder, or
whatever it is, and then you
Sarah McLusky (24:54):
say whether you do it on a particular day of the
week, something like thatt
Jeni Smith (24:57):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Yeah, oh, well,
Sarah McLusky (25:01):
that's a good advice then as well. And, and I
think I love that idea of makingit like taking the pressure off
a little bit. I think peoplethink they have to organize, you
know, some big networkingmeeting, or, you know, some sort
of a seminar. But what oftenhappens then is you you cram the
time with stuff that feelsproductive and don't leave
(25:25):
enough space for theconversations, whereas, if you
make it something informal,like, yeah, like you say a co
working day or something likethat, and, and, you know, and I
think that is the way a lot ofuniversities and places that
that have gone now, is thatpeople don't have fixed desks
anymore. They just have, like,a, you know, a space. You can
book a desk and come in oncertain days. So, you know,
(25:48):
maybe just arranging like, Oh,should we all go in on Wednesday
and then we'll have lunchtogether, even like that.
Jeni Smith (25:54):
Yeah. I mean, Durham University, the business school
where I'm based, the newbusiness school, and they've got
a cafe area, and it's open tothe public as well as being open
to obviously, you know, people,students, academics, whatever.
So doing something within aninstitution that you work with,
if you're external, or if you'rewithin a university, putting
(26:15):
something out to othercolleagues and saying, Look,
does anyone want to I'm going tohot I'm going to be hot desk.
Don't even ask. Does anyone wantto just tell them I will be here
on this day. Everyone iswelcome. Bring your laptop,
bring your lunch box, or we'llget something from the cafe, or
whatever. This day, betweenthese hours, I'll be there and
just go and then, you know,there might be time where no one
(26:37):
comes, but it doesn't matter.You're just sat working anyway,
so it doesn't feel as likeyou're sat waiting for anyone.
You're not. You're just satworking from a public space. So
but then people will come. Ithink the fact that you know we
were chatting before Sarah andlike this is such a common theme
that is coming out, I think itis very much like build it and
(27:00):
they will come. Because peopledo want this. They are craving
this. They want that humanconnection. It's just who's
going to be the person to putthemselves out there to to pick
it, pick it off, really,
Sarah McLusky (27:12):
Yeah, and I think, and that's we do. It's
almost a call to that, isn't it.We need some people who are
willing to be the ones who aregoing to stand up and organize
it
Jeni Smith (27:19):
Be a leader
Sarah McLusky (27:20):
Being somebody who's just done that myself. So
yeah, for people who don't know,there is now a little, a little
community for research-adjacentfreelancers. For exactly this
reason, I just was it keptcoming up with people I was
talking to, and I thought, well,if nobody else is going to build
it, I will
Jeni Smith (27:36):
They're the best. They're the most authentic ones.
It's not from you're not comingfrom a place of like, Oh, if I
get all these people together, Ican sell them this. It's not
like that. It's like, literally,people are telling me they want
this, and I've got this networkof people that I've got access
to. I'm just going to put it outthere and see what happens, and
that they're the ones and thatreally, like, have the, the most
(27:59):
authentic power. And I love, Ilove those kinds of networks,
yeah.
Sarah McLusky (28:03):
Oh, so go out there, make your if it doesn't
exist, then make it yourself.And I think certainly we're in
that it's almost like hangover,isn't it, from COVID is yeah,
when COVID hit and everybodywent into their homes and and
suddenly the idea of workingfrom home, hybrid working, felt
really liberating. But then nowwe're four years, five years
(28:26):
down the line, and and peopleare starting to be like, yeah,
actually, I wish I got a house abit more
Jeni Smith (28:32):
It's a bit lonely. I forgot I had to talk to people.
Sarah McLusky (28:34):
Yeah,
Jeni Smith (28:35):
No, yeah. And it's got, I think, I think there's,
there's pros and cons. Thenovelty, like you said, has worn
off, I think for a lot ofpeople, and it's impacting
people's like, social skills andconfidence, but it's also
impacting their their sense ofconnection, especially, you
know, people like myself. I justwork. I've, you know, run my
business, but it's just me, soI'm and I need that, that
(28:59):
connection, so I need toproactively go out, talk to
people, hot desk. I'll sit inthe coffee at the uni all the
time, and you just chat topeople walking by, and you get,
I get to know the people thatwork there and stuff as well as
you know, seeing people Ialready know. So it's, it is,
it's a proactive choice I thinkthat you have to make. And it
can feel scary and vulnerable,but it's so worth it. All the
(29:22):
good stuff comes fromvulnerability, as well as the
some of the scary stuff,
Sarah McLusky (29:26):
Yeah, oh, you're even giving me a nudge for some
of these. I should probably dosomething and say, yeah. I'll be
yeah here on this day come andhave a chat.
Yeah rather than eh fantastic.So I think another thing that
comes up often with people inthis community is finding
(29:47):
somebody who can be a bit of amentor for them, whether that's
formally or informally. I thinkone thing I've I've found
interesting the more I thoughtabout this, is that there are
different kinds of mentoringrelationships. So there's,
there's times when I've been inorganizations where I've been
assigned like a formal mentor,right? But it just didn't quite
(30:10):
gel in that. And not that therewas anything like they were
people who had amazing insights,but it just finding a way to
prioritize that relationship, Iguess again, was was challenging
on both sides. But thensometimes mentors, well, I don't
know, tell us. Tell Tell us yourthoughts on mentors.
Jeni Smith (30:31):
No I'm a big fan of mentorship. I've experienced it
from different perspectives, asa mentor, as a mentee. I think
there's different ways to goabout it. You are totally right.
It has to be the right fit, andit's a very personal
relationship. So it has to besomeone that you admire, that
you know, that it has to be theright social connection between
(30:56):
the two people. So this is wherethe it can become problematic if
you are just assigned someone asa mentor. I think there's
different, there's a couple ofdifferent ways to go about it.
As you said, prioritizing is isdifficult because people are
busy, so it has to be mutuallybeneficial. I feel like
(31:16):
relationship. There's either thepeer to peer mentorship, where
you network and meet someone,and the two of you kind of
connect, and you've got thingsthat you can learn from each
other. So you both have thiskind of equality within the
relationship and the dynamic.And then you put something a
rhythm, whether it's likemeeting up every month, or
having a call once a month justto check in, or whatever it is,
(31:39):
I think there's also a lot ofspace for paying for mentorship,
which is a different dynamic,but it really it gives
commitment, obviously on bothsides of that dynamic. It's
something that I doprofessionally for not for for
academics or anything, but forbusiness people. I'll mentor
them one to one. It's a paidservice. It's something I really
(32:02):
love doing, and it means that Idon't feel like I'm giving up my
time. Obviously, as a as a busyperson, you've got, you have to
kind of get that return. So itallows me to do something I
love, and obviously get paid formy time, which is brilliant, and
helping people one to one. Sothere's also an option of that
and finding a mentor. Itdepends, again, what you need
(32:23):
from that mentor relationship.If it's just someone to like for
that that support and to getideas from, then that's one
thing. If it is more like youwant, bit more like outputs and
coaching, almost, and that's adifferent thing. So again, I
think starting with what it isthat you want, and then finding
that right fit. And you mighthave to try a few different
(32:45):
people first to find the rightfit, but being open to it. So
when you are going out,networking more in general,
whether that's events,conferences, hot desking, just
having conversations withpeople, having at the forefront
of your mind when you engagewith new people. Like is this
someone that I could see thatworking with, or if there's
someone that you've already gotin mind, that you admire, and
(33:06):
you they're like, further downthe path than you, and you would
love to get their insights andtheir experience, reach out to
them and say, Look, I would loveto to explore like you, becoming
a bit of a mentor. And is thatan option for you? What might
that look like for you? And, youknow, just let me know and see
where that conversation goes aswell.
Sarah McLusky (33:27):
Yeah I think as well. Something that's, that's,
I've realized is a lot of thepeople who are almost mentors to
me aren't even like they're sofar down the line that I have no
access to, you know what I mean?So people like authors,
podcasters, you know, I'velearned so much from
Jeni Smith (33:44):
Yeah, yeah from the content
Sarah McLusky (33:47):
Yeah that they've put out in the world. And so
mentors doesn't always evennecessarily need to be a real
life human being who's in yourspace. Yeah.
Jeni Smith (33:57):
It could just be, yeah, you're right. Finding
those people that you admirethat are doing things that you
think you want to do you aspireto do, or that you just think
are really cool and then, likemaking sure that you are
surrounding yourself with theircontent, with their Yeah,
absolutely so, it could just bemore of a consumption of of
information and stuff, ratherthan having those one to one
(34:19):
relationships.
Sarah McLusky (34:20):
Rekationships yeah. I mean, obviously the
relationships are great if youcan find them, but if you can't
find them, then
Jeni Smith (34:25):
In the interim, absolutely. But I think the
first thing, yeah, figuring outwhat you want from that mentor
mentee relationship there mightbe. I used to volunteer as a
mentor for the Girls Network,which is a great charity. So
there's potentially likeorganizations like that. That
was for 16 to 18 year olds. Soit's a bit different, but there
could be some professionalnetworks that mentorship is
(34:45):
included. So looking to maybeengage with networking
organizations, if again, italigns with what you're looking
for. And sometimes you can getmore structured mentorship
access for free. It's people whoare further down the line?
Sarah McLusky (35:01):
Yeah.
Jeni Smith (35:01):
So there's different organizations out there, so it's
having a look for them as well
Sarah McLusky (35:04):
Yeah, yeah, definitely something to look
into. Fantastic. Well, I thinkwe should probably think about
wrapping up at thisconversation. It's been helpful
for me, if nothing else, hasgiven me ideas. But I'm sure
people will find that really,really useful. So if people are
looking for one thing that youdo do is you offer a directory
of networking events and thingsdon't you for events? Yeah, for
(35:26):
something like that. Do you wantto tell us a little bit about that?
Jeni Smith (35:29):
Yeah, absolutely. So one thing that came out of
conversations with creatingstrategies for people and stuff
is people never, or theystruggle to find networking
events, or which ones are theright ones for them. So I've
built a website, a platformcalled Networkwhere.com and it
brings together all thenetworking events that
happening. Currently it coversthe North East, Tees Valley and
(35:50):
Cumbria, but it's free forpeople to put events on there,
as well as free for people toaccess to find events. So if
anyone's hosting events furtherafield, they can put it on there
for free and advertise it.There's nearly 500 users on
there, which is great, but itjust means people can quickly
find events and they can filterthem based on topic and theme.
So if you are looking to findthat community of people with
(36:12):
common interests, you canquickly filter networking
opportunities or co-workingdays, workshops based on topic
and theme as well as locationand stuff like that. So it's
really easy, accessible to use,and it's a free resource so
hopefully it's helpful forpeople,
Sarah McLusky (36:26):
Yeah, yeah. And I think especially, as you say,
there's not much on there at themoment that covers the kind it's
a lot of businessy sort ofstuff, isn't it? Well, it's
quite mixed, isn't it? But,yeah, yeah.
Jeni Smith (36:36):
You know a mixture of the universities doing things
on there with the externalengagement, which are like
mixture for academics and nonacademics. So if you want to
engage with academia, eventhough you're not an academic,
that's you know, there'soptions, and there's events for
that as well. So yeah, there's abig mishmash of stuff, women
only events, all kind of crafts,wine, all kinds of stuff. Yes,
(36:59):
excellent.
Sarah McLusky (37:00):
Just sort your social life out there.
Jeni Smith (37:03):
Absolutely. Yeah,
Sarah McLusky (37:06):
Fantastic. Oh, well, thanks very much, Jeni for
coming along. I'll put all thoselinks and things in the show
notes and yeah, it's been reallyfun, useful conversation.
Jeni Smith (37:17):
Thanks so much for having me Sarah.
Sarah McLusky (37:23):
Thanks for listening to Research Adjacent.
If you're listening in a podcastapp, please check you're
subscribed and then use thelinks in the episode description
to find full show notes andfollow the podcast on LinkedIn
or Instagram. You can also findall the links and other episodes
at www.researchadjacent.com.Research Adjacent is presented
(37:44):
and produced by Sarah McLusky,and the theme music is by Lemon
Music Studios on Pixabay. Andyou, yes you, get a big gold
star for listening right to theend. See you next time.
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