Jeni Smith, Networking Expert (Episode 56)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jeni Smith (00:01):
Oh my word, was I terrified. I was like, thrown
into this room full of what Ideemed to be grown ups in suits
and given a name badge and justexpected to know how to talk to
them. In academia, especially, Ithink there's a sense of, unless
I have all the answers, Ishouldn't be in the room, and

(00:21):
that's literally the opposite ofwhat networking is for. Like,
the reason to go networking isto learn.

Sarah McLusky (00:29):
Hello there. I'm Sarah McLusky, and this is
Research Adjacent. Each episode,I talk to amazing research
adjacent professionals aboutwhat they do and why it makes a
difference. Keep listening tofind out why we think the
research-adjacent space is wherethe real magic happens.
Hello and welcome to ResearchAdjacent episode 56 I'm your

(00:54):
host, Sarah McLusky, and comingup today, I have a brilliant
conversation with networkingexpert Jeni Smith. Now you might
already be wondering why Jeniqualifies as research adjacent
well. It's because shespecialises in helping
researchers, including academicsand students, to develop their
networks and their networkingskills. Through her company
NetKno, she delivers talks andworkshops as well as one to one

(01:15):
support. A natural connectorJeni has been working in
networking in some way, shape orform for 15 years, and is so
obsessed with it, she is evendoing a part time PhD on, you
guessed it, networking. We talkabout why business folks and
academics network for differentreasons, overcoming common
barriers to networking, and whymost people have the wrong idea

(01:36):
about what networking is for.Oh, and then there's also the
fact that she is responsible forat least one marriage and three
children. Listen on to hearJeni's story.
Welcome along to the podcast,Jeni. Thank you so much for
coming along and joining ustoday. Could we begin by hearing
a little bit about what it isthat you do?

Jeni Smith (01:56):
Yeah, hi. Thanks for having me. Sarah. So my name is
Jeni Smith, and I do two things.Well, I do lots of things, and
mostly they all encompassanything to do with networking.

Anything to do with networks. Well, I think the
I'm a bit obsessed withnetworks, networking, and so I
run my own business, which iscalled NetKno which is a
networking agency, networkingconsultancy, based in the North
East of England and Durham. ButI get to work with people all
over the world, and that'spredominant, that's
predominantly either businesspeople who are looking to
network to grow theirbusinesses, or academics who are

(02:28):
looking to network forknowledge. And sometimes the two
worlds collide, which is wheremy obsession area comes in. And
so the other thing that I doaround networks and networking
is I'm three years into my PhDresearching networks, and how,
specifically how networking canhelp bridge that gap between
those two worlds. So, yeah,anything to do with networks.

(02:52):
reason that you came onto myradar is because you, you have
found this kind of niche inspecialising in networking for
academics, people in theresearch world. So what's that
all about? Why is that such aninteresting area?

Jeni Smith (03:07):
It happened as most niches do totally by accident,
Yeah interesting. So you saidthere that academics, they're
and I think so, I've always likefor the last 20 years,
professionally, I've attendednetworking events, either as a
full time networker, which is ajob that I totally invented in
Liverpool, so I didn't pay forlike food or wine for about a
year. That was nice. I ran anetwork in Cumbria, again, that

(03:28):
was for business people. Andthen over here in the North
East, ran a network for a numberof years. So I've always been a
networker in a professionalcontext. But then when I started
this business, I had links intoacademia and I'd actually, it
probably it goes back toutilizing the Durham
University's MBA program whereyou can, as a business person,

(03:49):
you can take a real life projectto the university, and then a
student does some research intoit, and it gives your business a
bit of credibility, and it givesthem a live project. And that's
probably where it stems fromoriginally. And then that
relationship and that link intoa University developed, and when
I launched the business helpingpeople to network, which is

(04:12):
usually through like workshopsand training and things, and the
university asked me to come inand do some training for some of
their students. And then overtime, it went to some of their
staff. And then otheruniversities came in. And then
that, that just kind of snow,the snowball effect, hit in. And
then I found that networkingbarriers, although the barriers

(04:34):
were very similar for businesspeople and academics, because
they're all humans. They're allpeople. Yeah, the way in which
they network was very different,and their objectives for
networking was very different.So I got to learn through
working with academics about theworld of academia, and then I
just got sucked into it, becauseit's just wonderful. And then

(04:57):
went to the Dark Side a fewyears ago, and to start my own
PhD, which has allowed me a lotmore insight. So now being able
to come from, you know, as aninsider, I guess, perspective,
to help understand and thendeliver better training, not
just to the academics, but alsoto business people who want to
engage with academics, and viceversa. So it's provided a lot of

(05:19):
like, empathy, I guess, andinsight. So that's been really
useful. So, yeah, very byserendipitous interaction
snowballed over the years.
they're sort of, you know,obviously, as you say, network
is networking. They're humans,but their reasons for networking
are different.
Yeah, very different.Interesting. So, networking for

(05:44):
knowledge is is absolutely likefor business people and for
academics is the most valuableresource that it provides.
However, business people'sobjectives is usually, you know,
almost survival for want of abetter phrase. Businesses, in
order to keep being a business,they need to get clients, they
need to sell their products andservices. So often they network
for those with that mindset.Whereas in academia, it's more

(06:08):
networking in very niche oftenacademics are encouraged and go
to conferences to meet people intheir own very specific sector,
very specific field ofexpertise. Whereas business
people often network a bit morebroadly. So the problem with
networking in such a niche way,with you know, is they often

(06:31):
accidentally create these echochambers of knowledge for
themselves. So if they're onlyyou know, going out and speaking
to people who know the thingsthat they already know, they're
not actually learning anythingnew. So a big, big kind of shift
that I try and encourageacademics is to build a bit more
diverse knowledge networks, solooking to engage with people

(06:53):
outside of their discipline,outside of their preferred
methodology, outside of theiryou know that, but in turn, that
equates to outside of theircomfort zone, because then they
encounter a lot of barriers,such as language, you know, they
use a lot of different acronymsand different you know, it could
be someone in geography wouldbenefit from speaking to someone

(07:15):
in engineering. And there'sactually a lot of transfer for
transfer, transfer, and they canspark a lot of innovative ideas
and collaborations, potentially,that create richer, more
rigorous research. But that'sscary. It's scary to do that
we're not naturally. We'renaturally drawn to people
similar to ourselves, and inacademia, that's that's

(07:37):
encouraged, and that's quiteingrained in the culture. So
it's it takes a lot of courageto kind of step out of that and
proactively look for people. Andpeople haven't got time as well.
They're busy. So there's anumber of different barriers,
but often that objective ofnetworking, to find the experts
in your field, to accessknowledge, which is wonderful,

(07:59):
but it actually often you couldget so much more if you could
network outside of that.

Yeah, and definitely with the driver is
now for more interdisciplinarycollaboration, yeah,

Jeni Smith (08:14):
so and beyond academia, and obviously with
impact rising up the agenda, youknow, having real world
interactions. And beyondacademia, I'm finding that
academics have to go out andnetwork with people who aren't
academics, which in that that'sa whole other level of because
the power dynamics aredifferent, the hierarchies are

(08:34):
different, and especially peopleyou know, who have built up
success in their in their fieldof research, asking them to give
up all that power by steppingoutside of it, where citations
and publications mean literallydiddly squat. People outside of
academia don't understand it.They don't it doesn't mean
anything. Asking them to dothat, that's an even more

(08:55):
vulnerable thing. So there's alot of vulnerability there.
There's a lot of fear of theunknown, and you know, there's a
lot of research around the gapsthat exist between the two, but
it often comes back to to theperson, the human, and the
barriers that they encounter.

Yeah oh, really interesting stuff, and certainly
rings true with a lot of theexperiences I've had of working
in the research world. Soyou've, said that you're
basically a professionalnetworker. Isn't that? What does
that entail is that, like you'vesaid, You do training and things
like that. Do you also organizeevents?

Jeni Smith (09:29):
No, I used to organize events. I spent a
number of lots of years doingthat. So I'll consult on event
design now, sometimes, if andwhen it's it's needed, or if
it's part of another project,um, I'll help design the
experiences for delegates andthings. But often, yeah, usually
it's it's workshops, it'straining and it's consultancy

(09:51):
around creating networkingstrategies. I really love
helping people be strategic withtheir networking activities. So
helping them understand, youknow. Just identify what it is
they want from that investmentof time and resource and energy,
what do they want in return, andthen where they can position
themselves in order to get thatreturn on investment. Also

(10:11):
helping people build confidence,I do some kind of a bit more
longer term in interventions,working with individuals to help
them work out what theirstrategies are, but also what
their personal barriers are andthings and and helping them
overcome those over a longperiod. I like, I love doing
that. That's that's really cool.Um, yeah, large consultancy

(10:33):
projects for larger businesses.There's a lot I found, of
universities, um, and just largeorganizations who, since
lockdown, especially, and sincethe rise of hybrid, remote
working, have found a lot ofdisconnect internally. And so
there's a lot more institutions,organizations who are investing

(10:54):
in internal networks. So I'll dosome I do you know quite a bit
more I've seen in the lastcouple of years of that work,
which, again, is reallyfascinating. It's really
interesting.

I can imagine, yeah, that that's certainly, you
know, people, colleagues workingtogether now, who maybe never
actually physically cometogether in the same space, Be
quite a challenge

Jeni Smith (11:14):
absolutely, yeah, yeah. But similarly, like how,
you know, I said about academicsand business people kind of
they're different. And evenwithin, within universities, I
find you've got yourprofessional services and you've
got the academics and never thetwo shall mix or they struggle
again. It's language, timelines,these issues, these barriers,
these differences that theyhave, create these segregations,

(11:36):
often within an institution. Sothere's a lot of internal
networks, yeah, but, and a lotof training and workshops and
stuff that can help to build, topull down those barriers and
build the bridges inside as wellas outside, which,

again, no, definitely, you're, you're
speaking to

Jeni Smith (11:56):
speak in the love language. Yes, absolutely. Um,
so

you've said, this is something that you've done
for a long time. What's beenyour journey into this work?

Jeni Smith (12:06):
Oh, so I started out in the world of networking.
Originally, when I was anundergraduate in Liverpool at
John Moores, I answered one ofthose random emails that was
like, Do you want some workexperience in a creative sector?
And I was like, I want some workexperience in a creative sector.
Um, so applied for that andended up doing some voluntary

(12:26):
work at this really smallbusiness at the time, um, called
Milky Tea, that did CGI andanimation and worked directly
with the owner of the business,which was great experience, as
you know, a business student, Iwas learning about a business by
being in it. So that was reallycool and but he took me along to
my first ever networking event,and oh my word was I terrified.

(12:49):
Nobody prepared me for it.Sarah, like I was literally and
I was really hungover at thetime, which didn't help but I
was like, thrown into this roomfull of what I deem to be grown
ups in suits and given a namebadge and just expected to know
how to talk to them. So I hid inthe toilets for most of that, it

(13:09):
was genuinely scary. But Johntook me to another event like
few weeks later, when I'd gotover the drama and eventually
plucked up the courage to go andspeak to someone, and I still
remember that person. His namewas Livingston. He upcycled
furniture, and he was morescared than I was, so he the two
of us just kind of like jokedand chatted the rest of the

(13:32):
night, and just from then on, Ithink I just fell in love with
networking, and networking was areally big part of the culture
in Liverpool, like people, justit's part of what you do. You go
out and you talk to people andand, and it just gave me access
to all these different people.And originally, you know, I'm
from a tiny little village inCumbria, so being able to

(13:53):
suddenly go out and talk tothese people who are doing all
these different things, andthey're all different ages and
different sectors, and it wasjust amazing. So that's how I
first got into networking. Fastforward a couple of years to
when I graduated and invented myfirst job around networking,
which was found that going toevents, I'd speak to people who

(14:17):
didn't have the time to gonetworking, so they'd complain
about that, or they didn't likeit, like genuinely hated it, the
experience and and I also foundthat I was quite naturally I
really love connecting people.So I talked to someone, I'd be
like, Oh, you need to speak tothis person, and you need to
speak to this person, and it'squite hard, that's quite a hard
thing to monetize. So I inventeda job where I went networking

(14:40):
full time. So I would take on aclient, one from each industry,
so there was no conflict. Iwould do a kind of corporate
analysis of their business. Iunderstood what they did and who
their target markets were. Andthen I just used to go out to
like five or six events everyday, Monday to Friday, and
network and just talk to people.And it was at the time, it was

(15:03):
brilliant. I could not do thatnow, however, I have definitely,
yeah, that ship has sailed, butfor that one year that I did, it
was brilliant, and I got tospeak to loads of people. And
actually, that was the firsttime I went into a university.
John Moore invited me back inand to give a talk to their
students about what networkingwas. And that was the first kind

(15:25):
of interaction, originally, ofdelivering a networking
workshop. And so after a year ofdoing that, I was spent and I
learned so much, yeah, fromgoing to all these events that I
flipped that, and when I movedback home to Cumbria, launched
my second business, which washosting events. So that's when I

(15:47):
started organizing events, andhaving been a delegate, a very
intense delegate, to so manythings I kind of knew what works
and what didn't, just throughexperience and observations. So
then I started hosting events,which was business number two in
networks, and I loved that, andit was tough to be honest. That
was really hard because peopledidn't really network then in

(16:10):
Carlisle, people knew eachother, but they didn't go to
events to get to know eachother. So it was quite a slow
burner, but managed to keep itgoing for, I think, four or five
years, and then I met myhusband, the love story that is,
and in Magaluf, of all theplaces, he's a North East lad.

(16:30):
He's from Durham, so I ended upmoving over here. And then, you
know, fast forward a few years,and I got myself a job at a
network that was already runninghere, and kind of approached
them and said, Please give me ajob. Let me run your network,
which he eventually did. So Iwas the managing director of a
network in the North East forabout two or three years called

(16:52):
the Mussel Club, which was goingbefore me, and it's still going
now. It's a great network. Andthen took a few years out of
networks and networking, andended up working in the startup
world and supporting techstartups with like, fully funded
support, which I loved. And partof my passion for networking and
running a network is that youget to know all these different

(17:14):
people and get to be part oftheir business journeys, which I
absolutely adored. So being ableto support them with fully
funded all kinds of differentthings was great. But then when
I went on maternity leave, I hadmy little girl. She's five now,
when I went on maternity leavewith her, you know, it's not the
same for everyone, but for me,having a kid is like crazy and

(17:37):
like it totally my brainrewired. And the idea of going
back to a job to work forsomeone else full time, and then
the cost of childcare on top, itjust wasn't sustainable. It was
ridiculous. Yeah, so I made thedecision to to leave my job
while I was on maternity leaveto start this business to help

(17:58):
people to network. It's whatI've always loved to do, and I
wanted to get back to doing whatI loved. And that part of that
was reclaiming my own identityafter having, you know, a child,
and doing the thing that Ireally love to do. And but I
knew that I couldn't do fulltime networking. And again, I
knew I couldn't host networkingevents. Again, it's all
consuming. So this felt like theperfect solution. And however,

(18:22):
the week that my husband tookover the parental leave and the
week that I started the businesswas the week that lockdown hit,
and everything I know so theidea

Which for a networking.

Jeni Smith (18:38):
And by this point, it was too late, like there was
no going back. I'd left my job.Dave was on parental leave. We
had a six month old baby. Theworld was went into lockdown.
Originally, at the beginning itwas for two weeks.

Oh god, yeah. Remember that? Maybe like two
and then it was six weeks, andthen it was like, you know,
whatever.

Jeni Smith (18:57):
Oh, yes, absolutely, yeah. Crazy. And I think, you
know, if I'd known what wasgoing to happen, if I'd known
that it was going to be like,two years before networking
events could come back, there'sno way that I would have
obviously done that. However itall it did. It worked out well.
And in that I was able to, Itook my knowledge of supporting

(19:20):
the business support ecosystem.I took my knowledge of that and
instead of trying to selldirectly to people, because no
one was buying anything, no onewas going to network events, I
was able to change the businessand work directly and sell into
the support agencies, whichallowed me to help people
through that time at no cost tothem, while still getting paid.

(19:41):
So it meant that I had to changemy business model, but actually
in a wonderful way. And thennow, obviously, as the world
reopened, everyone was veryanxious and understandably about
networking. And there's a wholegeneration of young people that
came out of the education systemthat they spent their university
time online, or there waspeople, you know. So there was a

(20:04):
lot of things that, you know, Ifelt like I could really help
with, which has been wonderful.And so I'm able to do what I
originally planned, but now withlots of other different things
mixed into it.

But it's quite a journey. Yeah, and just just
talking about Yeah, doingmultiple networking events a day
does make me feel quite tired.Also, as somebody who's not very
good with names and faces, itjust all kind of

Jeni Smith (20:33):
Names are, names are often like, people's people
like, feel really guilty aboutnot remembering someone's name.
It's like a an etiquette thing,isn't it? Yeah, I have got a
name badge that I got with mylike, logo on it, and it's like,
mag. It's a magnet one, so itdoesn't wreck my clothes. So I
wear that when I go networking,so that other people feel more
comfortable, yeah, and so ifeveryone did that, we'd all be

(20:55):
fine.

I know I'm a big fan of name badges. I know not
everybody likes them, but I'mlike, no, no, let's all I've
made name badges

Jeni Smith (21:03):
I'm the same

But, yeah, certainly. I mean, even within,
it's interesting hearing youtalk about there the the way
that you work, and there aredefinitely people like you, if
any. So I'm thinking, justthinking, if anybody's
listening, you're, what you dois like, almost, you're like a
very you know, could there beanother I'm not sure there could
be another person exactly whatyou do, but there are network

(21:29):
coordinators and people inuniversities who do things like
brokering those relationshipsbetween universities and
businesses, or universities andcharities or partner
organization, you know, whenyou're talking about impact and
that sort of thing. So I think alot of those skills are really
relevant in lots of other jobsin this world.

Jeni Smith (21:51):
Yeah, there's a lot of people who naturally connect
to others. They're just like,natural connectors. They see,
they can see, they'll speak tosomeone like, oh, you need to
speak to that person. And oftenthey end up in job roles like
that, where they can, you know,they can, they can use that
ability. But sometimes peoplewho are just, you know, they
their jobs got nothing to dowith that, but they do that

(22:13):
naturally for colleagues anyway.And they're invaluable when you
find them people. But I think,and it can be something that can
be taught. And I think often wethink of networking as very
transactional in that we have togo and like, What can I get from
this? Or for academics as well,often it can feel quite like

(22:33):
it's a quite a commercialactivity, and they've got to go
and sell themselves, or they'vegot to go and sell impress
people. And you know when I doworkshops, so obviously, I've
been doing networking workshopsfor the past four or five years,
and I use Slido quite often.It's like an interactive tool.
And I always ask at thebeginning of the like little

(22:54):
warm up. I'll ask people, what'syour biggest barrier, or what
puts you off, or what don't youlike about networking? And last
year, I analyzed all the resultsthat I got, because it's all
anonymous, and there was overthere was 3000 responses, and I
wanted to see if there was adifference between what business
people's barriers were and whatacademics barriers were. And

(23:17):
basically, long story short,there was absolutely no
difference whatsoever. And itall came the barriers all came
down to this sense of either Idon't know what to do, so I
don't know, like, how to act inthese environments. And I'm, you
know, it's this fear of judgmentand feel of this vulnerable,
this vulnerability, this fear ofsocial rejection we all have,

(23:39):
and I don't know what to say.So, like, I don't know how to
engage in small talk. I don'tknow how to initiate a
conversation or what to say topeople. But the big one was
this, I don't know enough to bethere. So in academia
especially, I think there's asense of, unless I have all the
answers, I'm not. I'm, you know,I'm, I shouldn't be in the room,

(24:01):
and that's literally theopposite of what networking is
for. Like, the reason to gonetworking is to learn. So the
idea of not going because youdon't know enough, it's like not
going to school because I don'tknow the alphabet. Like, the
reason you go to school is tolearn the alphabet. The reason
that we go networking is tolearn, or to look for ways that
we can add value to each otherrather than taking so there's,

(24:24):
there's a lot of people whonaturally do go out and just are
inquisitive, and they'll askquestions, and they'll look for
ways that they can connectpeople that are existing in
their networks to new people ortheir colleagues and but anyone,
I genuinely do think that anyonecan, can switch. It's a mindset,
switch that mindset onto addingvalue to others, being just open

(24:46):
to learning and asking questionsand but like you say, the
universities, especially, theyhave people there who are there
to facilitate. And act as thatbridge? Yeah, to help. Do you
know to take them along toevents? Or to connect them with
the right people that they canthen collaborate with, or, you
know, work with on, you know, itcould be co creation, anything.

Yeah, yeah. No. It's really important, as you
say, often kind of invisible,but a really important role
those people that help you to beand connect and everything like
that. Well, I'm sure that in theyears you've been doing this,
you've maybe got a couple ofthings you're proud of, maybe
stories about things that havecome or

Jeni Smith (25:30):
The best one, the one that I always Yeah, the one
I always do is I that Iconnected two people together
once, and they went on to getmarried and have babies. So

Connected them at a professional event?

Jeni Smith (25:43):
Well I met them both professionally. But I just, I
was like, Oh, you need to meetthis, this woman, yeah, and
knowing her. And then I justknew and, like, they've got
like, three babies now. So I'vecreated life, basically. So

Maybe you've got an alternative career in, like,
dating.

Jeni Smith (26:00):
I really think I could, you know, I could totally
do that. And in a moreprofessional context onto loads
of things. You know, there'sloads of there was a strategy I
did for someone years ago, and Isaw her recently, and she was
like, You do realize that,because she's really, she's
niched into a specific sector,she's really successful in it.

(26:21):
And she said, You do realizethat I'm only in the sector
because you told me to. And Iwas like, what? She's like, when
you did that strategy for me, itwas a fully funded strategy.
Again, I try and tap into a lotof funded opportunities that are
out there to help, especiallysmaller or startup businesses.
And yeah, and she ended up goingdown that path that was like, I

(26:41):
feel like this is a good sectorfor you. And then now she's
doing, like, internationalstuff. She's doing absolutely
amazing so often, often, littlethings are, you know, you'll
introduce two people that willgo on. The best ones are, often,
it's not like a direct, I boughtthis off this person. That's
nice and that's lovely. It'smore the collaborations that
come or the you know inacademia, especially you know,

(27:05):
you connect two people and oryou'll highlight something, or
tell them about an event, andthey go to it, and then that
leads to collaborating on apaper or some a research
project. Or they end up workingtogether, or bringing their two
worlds together to createsomething even like better or

(27:26):
something new that, like, givesme so much joy, and I find it so
exciting, because you just don'tknow where these conversations
lead to. So yeah, they're alwaysthey're always wonderful, but
often, like people, they'll popup, like, like, I say, like, a
year later, or six months or sixsometimes six years later,
they're like, oh, remember, youtold me about this person. Well,

(27:47):
we're now doing X, Y and Z orit's like, Oh, that's amazing.
And again, I get to feel likeI'm part of that. Oh, anyone who
I do a workshop for, and thenthey'll pop up on LinkedIn with
a little message, and they'll belike, Oh, Jeni, I want to let
you know that I went to thisnetworking event and this
happened, and, you know, no onedied, and it was fine, and I

(28:09):
actually really enjoyed it. AndI'm like, get in, that's
amazing. And you can just, youcan tell that they're proud of
themselves, and I'm really proudof them as well, to especially
that first step. So, yeah,that's really good as well.

Oh I'm really satisfying when you hear those
stories that come back round,but what you've done has made a
difference.

Jeni Smith (28:24):
Yeah, just it changes lives. And I think
again, in in academia,especially because the research
that then people go on to do andthe knowledge that they create,
it genuinely change. It canchange the world. It's It's
amazing. Absolutely blows mymind. So, yeah, it is brilliant.

Oh, but I'm sure there are some things though,
that have been a little stickyalong the way. So what have been
big challenges for you?

Jeni Smith (28:48):
Oh that's a good question. I think you know when
I was, especially when I wasfirst starting out in
networking, like how toarticulate that and how to
express and communicate it in aneffective way that was taken
seriously. And as a as a personwho's naturally quite excitable,
and like I'm quite full ofenergy, and my presentation

(29:11):
style, like, I like to usepuppets and props, and it's fun
and it's but to try and getthat, try and get that across,
but equally with credibility andgiving credibility to networking
as a whole. That seemed quite asquite a fluffy thing. Um, I
think that that was a bit of astruggle, especially at the
beginning. Honestly, sincestarting the PhD, it's given me

(29:34):
the words to be able to expressand to identify phenomenon that
I've witnessed and lived for for20 years, but I didn't know the
words to explain them. If thatmakes sense

That's really interesting, yeah.

Jeni Smith (29:47):
And knowing there's now, I know that there's all
this research that backs up whatI've seen and what I've
witnessed and experienced, I'mable to now come with the
receipts and be like, yeah, thatthis is why, and this is what
it's called. And here's theacademic research to back it up,
that has really empowered me alot, and it's given me the words
and the language and a lot moreconfidence, I think, so that

(30:12):
that's really, really helped meit's a big like, learning,
development, personal journey, Iguess, over the last few years
and but that's played a massivepart in that, absolutely.

That's really interesting, especially when
you've come at it. Basically,you've kind of learned on the
job, and then now you find outthat there's all this theory
behind it. Yeah.

Jeni Smith (30:34):
Honestly, I read all the time, like, especially at
the beginning, like, homophilyis one of my favorite things,
like words, and it basicallymeans that people who are
similar are attracted. It'sbirds of a feather flockj
together. Yeah, and, and Iwitnessed it and seen it. I
didn't know that there was aword or a phenomenon or a
construct or all these things.So I would read like a paper or

(30:57):
something. I'll be like, that'swhat I've seen. And like, all
these real life kind ofexperiences would run through my
brain to like, and they bring itto life. So I think I'm
definitely someone who I think Iwould have struggled going
straight like through theeducation system, traditionally,
like, you know, your undergrad,your masters, your PhD. I needed

(31:19):
the the the lived kind ofexperience first, and then
that's really helped me to oneit's helped me to, obviously,
find my passion and what Iloved, and then now getting the
language and the words and theevidence to back it up. It's
brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

Oh, that's really, really interesting.
Yeah. And well, so a question Ido like to ask all of my guests
is, if they had a magic wand,what would they change about the
world that they work in?

Jeni Smith (31:47):
Oh the egos. Oh the egos. They're so fragile. Sarah,
I think Do you know a big thingfor me that like it's coming out
of my it's coming out of myresearch as well. Like, in order
for people to work together andeffectively network and build
relationships with others andexternally, they first need to

(32:09):
have a good relationship withthemselves. And I think there's,
there's a lot of the way thatpeople, I think, in, and this is
business and academia. This isboth. They both look for a lot
of external validation, noteveryone, obviously, but you
know, it happens quite a lot andand that really impacts um, what

(32:32):
success looks like. So inbusiness, success often is, is
taking on investment, which isjust debt, it's creating jobs,
which is great, absolutely, butthere's also other ways and
means, you know, Spotfreelancers equally as, but it's
just not as it's not as seen assuccessful. There's lots of, you

(32:54):
know, those kind of thingwinning awards, again, things
like that. And in academia, it'sobviously very much focused
around publications andcitations and getting grants
again, all of which areabsolutely important course. Of
course they are. They need tohappen. But I think people who

(33:14):
are comfortable in their ownability and who have like they
know themselves, they don't feelthe need to shout down others.
They don't feel the need to, youknow, yeah, they don't need

Yeah, I can see again, that's making me think of
they're there to support andlift up rather than try and,
like, scramble on top of others.And again, the power dynamics
that it creates, sometimes thehierarchies and I would get rid
of some with my with my magicwand. That was my magic wand
sound. Yeah, yeah, change them.That would be nice.

(33:51):
people that I know who've beengood leaders. And yeah, thinking
of that the way that theyfocused on supporting other
people rather than pushingthemselves forward. Really
interesting stuff

Jeni Smith (34:05):
It is, yeah, it's fascinating.

Yeah. Oh, well, I'm sure we could go on for ages
and ages, and as we've alreadytalked, I might get you back for
another episode just to talkabout maybe some of that advice
around how people can can donetworking a bit better. But if
I think, looking at the time, ifpeople would like to find out
more about you or the work thatyou do, where's the best place

(34:28):
to find you? Um,

Jeni Smith (34:29):
LinkedIn is dead, easy. You know, you can easily

Great. I'll get the links for that, as put it in
find me on that just J E N ISmith, um, or the website, um,
it's got loads of information.There's loads of free stuff as
well, like downloads and videosand tips and stuff as well. I
try and like share all myknowledge for some reason, then
people want to pay me for it,which is wonderful, but there's
loads of free stuff on there, sothat's just N E T K N O .co.uk,

(34:53):
so netkno.co.uk
the show notes

Jeni Smith (34:56):
Actually. Do you know what? Sarah, I'm totally
lying to. It netkno. Is itnetkno.com. I can't even
remember my own what's my emailaddress. I'm gonna genuinesly
have to go and look It's .co.uk?We're fine with co.uk. Lovely.
Double check.

I'll make sure the one I've got in the show
notes is the right one. So,yeah.

Jeni Smith (35:20):
Otherwise, who knows? Yeah, thanks so much for
having me Sarah

You're very welcome. Thanks for coming.
Thanks for listening to ResearchAdjacent. If you're listening in
a podcast app, please check yoursubscribed and then use the
links in the episode descriptionto find full show notes and
follow the podcast on LinkedInor Instagram. You can also find

(35:46):
all the links and other episodesat www.researchadjacent.com.
Research Adjacent is presentedand produced by Sarah McLusky,
and the theme music is by LemonMusic Studios on Pixabay. And
you, yes you, get a big goldstar for listening right to the
end. See you next time.

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Jeni Smith, Networking Expert (Episode 56)

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