August 12, 2025 • 34 mins
Tamika Heiden is the founder and director of impact consultancy Research Impact Academy. Her company works with researchers around the globe and also runs the Research Impact Summit.
Sarah and Tamika talk about
- How her career and business evolved from research to knowledge translation to impact
- The language and practice of impact around the world
- Overcoming the mindset challenges that came with starting her own business
- How the current funding systems are holding back progress
Find out more
- Read the show notes and transcript on the podcast website
- Connect with Tamika on LinkedIn
- Sign up for the Research Impact Summit
- Find Research Impact Academy on the web, LinkedIn, Facebook, X, BlueSky, YouTube and Instagram
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tamika Heiden (00:01):
There's all sorts of little fun facts about how the UK
stole Australia's idea on impact andstarted doing it before we did it.
But what I realised really quicklyis it doesn't matter what we call
it, what it matters is that we makethe difference we're trying to.
11 years ago I decided that maybe Icould help more people if I consulted.
(00:21):
So I left my nice cozy job andbecame a consultant and hanging out
that shingle was very, very scary.
I'm seeing that good work is beingdismissed or not funded purely
because of the system, notbecause of the work in itself.
And for me, that is really heartbreaking
Sarah McLusky (00:43):
Hello there.
I'm Sarah McLusky andthis is Research Adjacent.
Each episode I talk to amazing researchadjacent professionals about what
they do and why it makes a difference.
Keep listening to find out why wethink the research adjacent space
is where the real magic happens.
(01:06):
Welcome one and all to today'sResearch Adjacent podcast.
I'm your host, Sarah McLusky, and beforeI welcome our guest, I just wanted to
thank you for taking the time to listen.
I know that your time and attentionare precious, so it means a lot
that you're choosing to spendthat time with this podcast.
If you want to show your appreciation,the most impactful thing you can do
is subscribe to the show and leavea rating or review in whichever
(01:27):
podcast app you are listening in.
It really does make a big difference.
Also, if you're listening aroundthe time of release, I'll be taking
a short summer break after thisepisode, but we'll be back in
September, 2025 with some new guests.
But back to today's guest.
So Tamika Heiden is the founder of theResearch Impact Academy, a consultancy
(01:48):
based in Melbourne, Australia,serving clients all over the world.
That global perspective on impact issomething that we really dig into,
including the perhaps controversialtale of how the UK stole the
idea of impact from Australia.
We also talk about how Tamika'scareer in business has evolved as
the funding landscape and researchpriorities have changed, from
researcher to research management toknowledge translation, and now impact.
(02:13):
We also talk about the challenges ofstepping out of her comfort zone and
starting a business that has grown from aone woman band into an international team.
If you are listening to this episodearound the time of release, which
is in August, 2025, make sure thatyou register for Tamika's free
online Research Impact Summit.
Now in its 10th year this event,which will be on the 1st and 2nd
(02:34):
of September, will look back at 10years of progress in research impact.
You can register atresearchimpactsummit.com or
follow the link in the show notes,but don't go there just yet.
Listen on for Tamika's story.
Welcome to the podcast, Tamika.
It is fantastic to have you here.
I wonder if we could start byhearing a bit about who you
(02:55):
are and what it is that you do.
Tamika Heiden (02:58):
Yeah, that's a great question, Sarah.
I ask myself some of that everyday, but so I am the director of
the Research Impact Academy, that'sa consulting agency in Australia.
And as part of that I get to work witha lot of academics all over the world,
and obviously mostly in Australia aswell, to help them have an impact.
(03:18):
So that looks like, you know, training,coaching, providing other types of
services to support them in grantwriting, those types of activities.
We do some stuff with government andthings as well, but I guess my day
job is a balance between running abusiness and being a business owner and
operationally serving my clients as well.
(03:39):
So a bit of both of those things.
Sarah McLusky (03:42):
Yeah.
I think anybody who's listening, who isa, a, either a business owner themselves
or is something like a project managerwill understand that it's that, you
know, little bits and pieces of thisand sometimes delivering things.
So yeah, it's interestingthat you work on impact.
And I think from what I've seen,the only places that people are
really using the language of impactseem to be the UK and Australia.
(04:06):
So how did you come into working in thissort of thing and, and is this impact
agenda a big thing in Australia as well?
Tamika Heiden (04:18):
It's an interesting point.
There are other places in the worldthat look at it, I think Australia
definitely started talking about it.
There's all sorts of little funfacts about how the UK stole
Australia's idea on impact andstarted doing it before we did it.
Sarah McLusky (04:34):
Oh
Tamika Heiden (04:35):
Well well that was really because one of our governments had decided
we were gonna have an impact assessment.
And a lot of people listeningprobably are aware of the UK Research
Excellence Framework Impact Assessment.
Well before it became the UK's.
Research impact the assessment aspart of the REF, they had decided
(04:56):
they were gonna do it in Australia.
Then we had a, a sort of a governmentreshuffle, somebody boosted out
the current sitting Prime ministerand they changed their tack and we
didn't do it, but the UK ran with it.
And so that was kind of an interestingdevelopment that happened with Impact.
So Australia, we gave up thatopportunity to do impact a little bit.
(05:20):
We did try it a little bit later.
But generally speaking, to kind of circleto your question, originally before I
got you all excited about how you stolesomething from us, 'cause you know, I know
you sent all the convicts to Australia.
Sarah McLusky (05:32):
Oh.
Tamika Heiden (05:32):
It, it I fell into it a little bit by accident, I guess.
My, my passion was as a researcher, so Idid a PhD and I, I really loved research
and I wanted to stay in research, but it'svery hard to have a career in that space.
So I started to, I moved into sort ofmanaging other people's research projects,
(05:53):
and as part of doing that, I, I becamea bit more administrative I guess.
And then one day I went to thistalk by somebody who had started
working at our institute who wastalking about research management.
And I had never heardof that as a profession.
And I was like, I thinkI've found my thing.
It's like this mix of research.
(06:13):
'cause you're, you're workingwith researchers and a mix of,
you know, admin and all the othertypes of activities go with that.
So that's perfect for me, I think.
I think this is what I wanna do.
So finally, I thought I knew what Iwanted to do and I grew up, but in fact
I then sought out jobs in that spaceand I managed to get a job managing
a National Center of Excellence.
(06:35):
And in doing that, theystarted talking about something
called knowledge translation.
I was fascinated.
I was like, what's thisknowledge translation thing?
And so I started Googling.
I found some people who knew all aboutit in Canada, in fact, and then I found
a course in Canada that I went and did.
And I thought this was gonna be my thing.
(06:56):
I found my people, I was very excited.
This was my forever job.
Came back to Australia after my training,all very excited and started really
bringing that aspect into my work.
And then I, through doing that,I started to wanna do more.
I was like, more peopleshould be doing translation.
(07:18):
I can help more people.
And then 11 years ago I decided that maybeI could help more people if I consulted.
So I left my nice cozy job andbecame a consultant and hanging out
that shingle was very, very scary.
So yeah, I guess I fell intoit because of a passion.
I became incredibly passionate aboutit, and it was over a number of years
(07:42):
doing knowledge translation to start inmy consultancy that then that morphed
into impact because it turned outthat what I was talking about was, was
impact, but not end of line impact.
I was talking about impact creationrather than impact measurement.
In fact, I had said to everyone, I don'twanna do impact, impact's too hard.
(08:02):
But it came, came about becausereally that's what the sector wanted.
It's what everyone was discussingand I realised it's, it's all
just words, it's terminology.
Sarah McLusky (08:12):
I think yeah, really interesting that, about the terminology
because I, I've, I've said this oftenin conversation, I can't remember if
I've ever said it on the podcast, butthat we, we talk about, yeah, knowledge
translation, knowledge transfer.
We talk about public engagement,we talk about, you know, public
involvement, patient involvement.
It's, and it's almost like.
(08:32):
they're all, as you say, slightlydifferent words for kind of the same
thing for all sort of working incollaboration with partners to help
get the research out into the world.
And then all of those can be these routesimpact and it's almost like impact's
the end of the line no matter what theprocess that you're doing to get there.
(08:56):
But yes, the language, what'syour take on the, the language,
the terminology around this?
Tamika Heiden (09:01):
Yeah, it's, it's a huge area and you talk to different people.
They have different waysof talking about it.
Exactly as you said, you know,engagement, exchange, commercialization,
dissemination, communication.
There's so much about it, andit was quite fascinating when
I first got into this space.
I remember one of my early conferences,where they were talking about knowledge
(09:22):
translation and there was an entire daydedicated to what we should call it.
And I realised pretty quickly atfirst I was really clinging on to,
which should be knowledge translationbecause that's what I'm used to.
And you kind of, we love to holdon to things that we're used to.
But what I realised really quicklyis it doesn't matter what we call it,
(09:42):
what it matters is that we make thedifference we're trying to, and I like
how you sort of mentioned that reallythey're all routes to the same thing.
It's all about getting tochange, to improving things,
and to having that impact.
Sarah McLusky (09:55):
So yeah, it makes sense how you've gathered all that
knowledge, that experience togetherand decided to focus on impact.
And what's really interesting is you'resaying there that you did your training
initially in Canada and then took thatback to Australia and now you do a lot
of work around the world, don't you?
I know you do a lot of work inthe UK so what is it like having
that international perspective onimpact and what we mean by impact?
Tamika Heiden (10:21):
Yeah, Look, I learn so much from the UK.
In fact, I really think what wethought for a long time in Australia
and, and I still believe it, isthat the UK had it all together.
You guys were doing impact.
You're all experts in impactbecause you're all doing it.
We realised pretty quickly that that'skind of a generalisation, but we
(10:44):
definitely learn from other things,and I'm learning a lot from the UK.
I'm also learning a lot from ourexperiences growing here in Australia,
but definitely in the early days itwas looking at those international
sectors, whether it's Canada and allthe translation mobilisation work,
whether it's the UK and the impactwork, and even whether it's places
(11:04):
like Hong Kong does impact staff.
There's a bit in Asia anddifferent ways of looking at it.
Even New Zealand was doingthings slightly differently.
Ireland was looking atimpact in different ways.
So there was a number of countriesthat when you started to delve into
it, you found all these little pieces,and it was really a great way to learn,
was to say, what are others doing?
(11:26):
In fact, one of the very first things,and the reason I kind of started my
business, I guess, was because I kind ofsaw on the horizon that this was coming.
Sarah McLusky (11:35):
Mm-hmm.
Tamika Heiden (11:36):
Even though in Australia we had.
Put our, our little impactagenda on the, on the back shelf.
I realised that the UK had run with thispretty big time and other countries like
Canada were talking about translation.
And in fact, they'd been talking about itsince I think the year 2000 in that stage.
And, and this was, you know, I wassaying we're still gonna be 20 years
(11:57):
behind if we don't do something.
So I kind of thought it was worth a risk.
I think it's coming.
Surely Australia has to keep upand meet the other requirements of
other countries when it comes tofunding and things like that as well.
Sarah McLusky (12:13):
Yeah.
Well, it sounds like certainly in termsof what I've seen happen in the UK in the
last 11 years, that's definitely been thedirection of travel and, and increasingly
this focus more on impact as, as, asyou say that the, the kind of end of the
line, the thing that we're aiming for.
So tell us a bit more about, yousaid that in your business you
do sort of training, coaching.
(12:34):
I know you organizeevents and conferences.
Tell us a little bit, bit more aboutsome of those things that you do.
Tamika Heiden (12:40):
Yeah well the training used to be the biggest component,
but these days the consulting hasbecome one of the biggest components.
So it's really interestinghow things flip around.
We now work a lot on grants, and I'mright in the middle of grant season
at the moment, so we help academicsto write their impact pathways,
to write their track records.
(13:01):
A lot of it's around language,it's around communication.
But one of the other things I do,as you mentioned, I, I have a, a
summit each year, so that's a bigpart of our business that we, that
we produce each year and, and share.
It's a, if I'm really honest, it's myway of learning 'cause I get to tap into
all these experts and interview them.
And so I'm kind of just sharingmy own professional development,
(13:24):
but don't tell everyone.
And,
Sarah McLusky (13:26):
That's exactly what I'm doing with the podcast.
Tamika Heiden (13:29):
Excellent.
Well, you know, it's a great way weget to meet people, we get to connect,
we get to build great connectionsand relationships with people.
We learn as we do it.
I think it's a really, it underpinseverything we do now, communication
and learning from others.
So yeah, they're the things that.
I do mostly in my business.
(13:49):
I mean, from time to time Ilike to dabble in other things.
You know, someone will say to me, Hey, canyou do an evaluation of a research center?
And I'll say, oh.
Yeah, okay.
It might not be a standardthing that we do, but yeah,
we'll definitely do that work.
And we've done some big ones of those.
We've done some reports fororganisations in other countries.
I'm doing some case studiesfor Hong Kong right now, so
(14:11):
it's a lot of different pieces.
And I guess what I love about that isit never gets boring, never gets boring.
Sarah McLusky (14:19):
Yeah, it is definitely when you're always working on a
slightly different area of researchor a slightly different you know,
country, different context that, yeah,definitely that sort of thing keeps
it really interesting for me as well.
Yeah.
Tamika Heiden (14:32):
I like the variety.
Sarah McLusky (14:35):
Excellent.
Oh, well, within that variety, I'm sureyou've done a few things that really
stand out as things that you're proudof or things that were really memorable.
Tell us maybe about a couple of those.
Tamika Heiden (14:46):
Yeah, well there are a few, and in listening to other speakers on
your podcast, I was kind of listening towhat other people have done and you know,
you kind of have that imposter syndromething that comes through sometimes.
But I really, in thinking through,you know, what am I really proud of?
And I do this quite often, in fact,and I found it to be a good practice
(15:08):
to do, is to not just reflect onthe things that aren't working,
but to reflect on those things thatmaybe have been really successful
because it's easy to put them aside.
One of the things that I did very earlyon maybe so around 10 years ago, is
that I had lobbied a little bit, ifyou like but helped to shape one of our
major research funding sources here inAustralia in the medical area, and it's
(15:34):
called the Medical Research Future Fund.
And they were starting up thisnew fund, one of the biggest
medical funds in the world.
And, so I kind of lobbied aroundhow I thought very passionately
that knowledge translationshould definitely be part of it.
And I ended up presenting evidenceto a senate committee inquiry.
And then I guess my proudest moment ofthat is that they named me when they
(15:57):
passed the bill in the in the parliament.
So I was kinda like, oh,my, my claim to fame.
That's my impact, right?
So I, I think other things though,I think I'm, I'm really proud of.
I guess my own braveryin starting a business.
I mean, that's a, it's a pretty big leapto go from academic to business owner.
And I realise that might sound a bitstrange, but one of the reasons I
(16:18):
left academia was actually because Iused to get really scared presenting.
Sarah McLusky (16:23):
Hmm.
Tamika Heiden (16:23):
I couldn't stand in front of people.
I couldn't run lectures and so.
I had to have the bravery tostand up and start doing that.
And I, you know, I remember myhusband saying, you're gonna do what?
He said, don't you hate that?
And I was like yeah, but I'm reallypassionate about this, so it's different.
Sarah McLusky (16:41):
Yeah.
Tamika Heiden (16:42):
I think that's, you know, that was the, the good thing.
So I guess you know, I'm.
I feel quite proud of the fact thatI've become a bit more comfortable
being uncomfortable, if you like.
I love that saying.
I'm, I guess I'm also kind ofproud that I took a really niche
area and built it into a business.
I, people say to me, what do you do?
(17:03):
And then I meet them again later.
They go, I'm still not sure what you do.
And people who are in academia and.
And that area, they know what I do.
But when I meet other businessowners, they sort of say, I
don't really get what you do.
And so it's quite an, it'squite an interesting one,
trying to explain what that is.
So yeah, there're some of the things thatI'm, that I'm proud of and, and one of the
(17:23):
most successful things I think I've everdone is the summit, the Research Impact
Summit, you know, it's in its 10th year.
Every year I get.
Around 1200 peopleregister for the summit.
And I'm, I think I'm reallyproud that it's free.
I, I love that it hassuch a good following now.
And you know, like we saidbefore, it's how we get to
meet people and learn things.
(17:44):
And it's my professional development,but I think the fact that it's gone
for 10 years and I now get peoplesaying, when's the next summit?
When's the next summit?
Can I be a speaker on the summit?
Is a really nice thing.
And I'm sure that you kind ofhave that same feeling about the
work that you are doing as well.
Sarah McLusky (17:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, that's it is, I mean, 10, keeping anevent going for 10 years is a remarkable
achievement as you know, I've done in thepast regular events and, and to keep that
energy going, it can be a real challenge.
So, yeah, that is an achievement.
But I love what you said there, I'vewritten it down on my notes, but
being, getting comfortable, beinguncomfortable, and certainly I think,
(18:23):
that step out to start your own businessis always, feels like a big risk, but
also it's that opportunity, isn't it?
And it, and it is about pushingyourself out of your comfort zone,
but it's remarkable to have almostdeliberately leaned into the thing
that scared you, scared you the most.
Tamika Heiden (18:42):
I dunno if it's remarkable or just stupid,
but I'll take it.
Sarah McLusky (18:49):
Yeah, well, I think it is always, these are the places
where we grow the most, aren't they?
The places where we just really pushourselves out of our comfort zones.
So yeah, a fantastic rolemodel in that respect.
But I'm sure that it hasn'tall been plain sailing.
So what are some of the, been someof the biggest hurdles along the
way in what you've been doing?
Tamika Heiden (19:10):
Yeah, there, there are quite a number of of hurdles.
I think.
When I think back originally and I startedin my business, I think the biggest
hurdle really was around my identity.
My identity was no longer as an academic.
My, my identity was no longer asbeing employed by someone else.
Moving from that world, one of thethings that happened is that most of
(19:33):
my clients knew me as an academic.
So here I was now coming back saying,I can help you to do better research.
But they knew me assomebody they work next to.
So,
Sarah McLusky (19:44):
Mm-hmm.
Tamika Heiden (19:44):
Seeing me in that different capacity, I think
was difficult to start with.
I mean, that's changed now, but atthat first piece, it took a lot to
convince people that I knew what I wastalking about and knew what I was doing.
But I think the, yeah, the identityof taking a risk, the identity of not
having a job that someone pays you togo to of having to make your own living.
(20:09):
There's this, the fear thatyou're not gonna survive and that
people are gonna say, oh, youtried it, but it didn't work out.
So you're constantly kindof carrying that with you.
I think, the other challenge was thatthe first few years are really hard.
You're on your own.
You're wondering if it's gonna work.
You're trying to convince everyonethat you know what you're doing and
you're trying to convince yourselfthat you know what you're doing.
(20:32):
Imposter syndrome is a massive challengeto overcome because it just sits
on your shoulder and says, really?
You think you can do that?
You think, who are you to do that?
Sarah McLusky (20:42):
Yeah.
Tamika Heiden (20:43):
so there are all of those elements that come, but I
think really the biggest challenge isworking well they say working in the
business and working on the business.
And so growing a business while youare the person doing the business, and
that's probably the biggest challenge.
And growing and being able to makeenough money to bring on staff and
(21:05):
to grow and to, you know, constantlyrealising that you, you're responsible
for someone else's food on the table.
Those types of things are actuallyvery scary and very challenging and
you know, it's taken a long time to getcomfortable with that as well, I guess.
But they have been the challenges.
I think there's been other challengesaround changes to the sector.
(21:30):
I think when COVID hit, I thought,oh no, what's gonna happen?
Because universities suddenly said, wedon't have any money and people were,
were a bit fearful about what was gonnahappen that didn't end up eventuating.
I'm still here that in, in fact, itturned out to be quite a positive thing
in the end even though it was a challenge.
(21:51):
I think I've been kind of lucky'cause when I think about it now
and as I talk about it, I feel likethose challenges are so, like little.
I'm sure there's been others.
I just, maybe I've justburied them so deep.
Sarah McLusky (22:03):
I think though you say little challenges, but I actually, the
more I do this kind of work and the morepeople I talk to, I think the, the stuff
that we've got going on in our own headis often by far the biggest challenge.
So when you see those issues youhad around imposter syndrome,
around this sense of identity.
(22:23):
You know, who am I if I don't do thisthing, if I go and do something different?
I think those for, for everybody.
I mean, the people that I, that I oftendo talks and things for, you know,
PhD students who are thinking aboutdoing something different and, and not
continuing in academia and, and they'relike, well, who am I if I'm not a
(22:44):
researcher in this, you know, an expertin this philosopher or whatever it is.
And so I think that identitypiece is really huge.
Absolutely huge.
So it can seem like from the outsidethat it's not a huge challenge, but
actually those are exactly the sortsof things that keep people stuck.
(23:05):
And so the fact that you've workedthrough them I think is, is again,
that's overcoming a big challenge.
Very definitely.
Yeah.
Tamika Heiden (23:14):
I think, and I think there are definitely
things that are attached to time.
I think now.
If I think about my identity, I refer tomyself as an academic in some circles, but
it's definitely not tied to my identity.
I think now my identity is definitelytied to running a business.
So it's the next step or being aconsultant, however you wanna pitch it.
(23:35):
But it's the next step now.
And, and it's quite funny, I dunnoif you have it in, in the UK, but
when we arrive back in Australia,when we've been overseas, we have
to fill in these forms and the formalways says, what's your occupation?
And I always grapple withwhat is my occupation.
And I used to put researcher back inthe day and, and then they would ask
(23:57):
you questions at the, at the border,like, oh, what do you research?
And now I've often been puttingentrepreneur, I figure it'll
ask a different question.
I don't know if that'swhat my occupation is.
Business owner, jack ofall trades, who knows?
But it's an interestingone to think about.
What is my occupation, I guess whenyou kind of do all these things?
Sarah McLusky (24:19):
Yeah.
And how do all this almost like,well, I think all of us are a
bit of a Venn diagram, aren't we?
Of all these different overlappingparts of who we are and what we do.
But no, I have faced exactly the sameproblem where I'm like, yes, what do I do?
What do I do?
I don't know, but yeah.
Tamika Heiden (24:35):
You work it out when you grow up.
I'm still working it out.
Sarah McLusky (24:37):
That's exactly one day when I grow up, I'll figure it out.
So speaking of all those things thatyou've gone through and, and forming
this new identity as a business owner, ifthere was anybody else either listening
to this who's either thinking about, justthinking about making a big change in
what they do, you know, whether that'smoving from academia into something
(25:02):
completely different, whether it'sstarting their own business, is there
any advice that you would give them?
Tamika Heiden (25:07):
Yeah, they might not wanna hear it then.
No.
There's lots of advice.
There's lots of advice, but I,I do like to laugh about it.
I think I would say be patient.
Sarah McLusky (25:18):
Mm-hmm.
Tamika Heiden (25:19):
Things do not happen instantly.
Maybe start something as a sidehustle before you take a leap.
I was fortunate I had support of,my husband has a job, so I had a
capability to be able to take a leap.
But if you don't have that backing, thenstart as a side hustle and be patient.
Grow things slowly.
(25:40):
I think finding yourpeople, that's a big one.
So for me, as I said to you when Idid knowledge translation, I thought
I found my people, which was great.
But when I started my business, I startedon my own again, and what I realised
is I had to find my people in business.
And so I found mentors and coaches andreally seeking out, as you grow and you
(26:02):
do new things, who are your raving fans?
Who are the people who are yourcheerleaders that are cheering you on?
So whatever it is you choose to do,whether it's business or something else,
get training and surround yourself withother people who maybe have been there.
People who pull you up.
We have this saying in businessthat you are, you are the sum of
the five closest people to you.
(26:23):
So you need to make sure thatthose five people are pulling
you up, not pushing you down.
The other one is be generous.
The more you give people,the more you get in return.
When I started this, I was, a bit green.
I really thought that you shouldn'tshare anything because if you
give away all your secrets, noone will pay you for your help.
(26:44):
And what I realised, and this isagain speaking of, you know, webinars
and summits and things that, thatI do that I don't charge for.
The more of that that I do, themore people who come and speak to
me because they wanna hear more.
And it's that opportunity,but I also think be genuine.
I, I used to think, you know, wewould say fake it till you make it.
(27:05):
And it's a reallyinteresting thing to do it.
And I think we do that a littlebit to hide that imposter
syndrome, you know, let's fake it.
But what I have realised, very,maybe slowly, or maybe as I've gotten
older, I've just gotten a bit morereflective on all of this stuff, is
that it turns out that really beingauthentic is the most attractive
quality, people are looking for that.
Sarah McLusky (27:27):
Mm-hmm.
Tamika Heiden (27:28):
attract people to you, you you, that helps you to surround
yourself with those right people andfind, other people who can support you.
If you're just really authentic, ifthings aren't going well, you need people.
You can say it's really not going well.
If things are going well, youneed people you can jump up
and down and celebrate with.
But it shouldn't just be a, Ihave to be okay all the time.
(27:51):
We have this saying in business, you know,every time you meet a fairly new business
owner, you'll say, how's it going?
And they'll say, oh yeah, it's great.
Really great.
But you know, that.
You know, they're not beinghonest with you necessarily.
And it's great when you meetpeople and they can go, well, it's
okay, but I wish it was better.
Or, well, they can say, actually,it's been really bad, so I think,
(28:13):
surrounding yourself with the rightpeople will allow you to be more genuine.
But yeah, be, be open and willing tolearn and to do things differently and
to self-reflect and to find people youcan reflect with and take on all of
those challenges, I think is probablythe, the number one thing I'd suggest to
anyone who wants to change their career.
Sarah McLusky (28:33):
Oh, that sounds like really good advice.
Thank you for that.
And then speaking of, of changing things,I do like to ask all my guests, if
they had a magic wand, what would theychange about the world that they in?
So what would you like todo with your magic wand?
Tamika Heiden (28:49):
Oh, I would like to create more hours in a day.
More weeks in a year.
More minutes in an hour.
Sarah McLusky (28:56):
What would you do with them?
Tamika Heiden (28:57):
Oh.
I'd probably still just work,which is very, very sad.
I feel like I would like to do andachieve so much more, and I think
that's a really bad hangover frombeing that A type personality that
you know, wants to, is driven.
I, I think, but to be, Iguess, a bit more serious.
(29:18):
One of the things, if I thinkabout it, that I'd really love
to change in the world that I'mworking in and in my sector.
I'd really like to change fundingand the success landscape of
academics and researchers.
I'd like to make it a bit easier.
So I guess I'd, I'd like to havemore influence on how the funders
(29:38):
are structuring what they'reasking for, managing peer review.
Because in an ideal world, I'd reallylike to see a bit more of a, a better
or a more fair system that is helpfulto the sector, and I guess I'm speaking
really specifically in the Australiancontext on this because that's
where most of our work on that is.
(29:59):
But really I'm seeing that goodwork is being dismissed or not
funded purely because of the system,not because of the work in itself.
And for me, that is really heartbreakingbecause my entire purpose and reason
for being as a business owner inthis space is to make sure that
(30:22):
those academics can have an impact.
And the only way they can do that is toremain in academia and do great work.
Sarah McLusky (30:29):
Yeah.
I think that it is interesting to see theconversation around this and to see some
of the experiments that, that people aretrying around how you distribute funding.
But I think it's anongoing challenge isn't it?
So.
Tamika Heiden (30:45):
It really is.
And I, I, you know, I often joke, andevery now and again, someone agrees with
me, but I do just think, you know, oncewe decide that something is a, a good
application and it's fundable, it shouldjust be a lottery because we've gotta
remove the bias out of these things.
We, I think there's so much change.
And that's the other thing, and wesee this a lot, is all the changes
(31:07):
that happen every time there's a newgrant or the same grant, but the next
year, the changes, they're alwaysmoving the goalposts for people.
And I feel like people are spendingso much time writing these grants that
they could be using, doing the work.
Sarah McLusky (31:24):
Yeah,
Tamika Heiden (31:25):
that's where I start to get frustrated.
So, you know, it's,something's gotta change.
I don't know it, it probablywon't in in my time, but
Sarah McLusky (31:34):
I think there is a couple, I've seen a couple of reports recently
where people are trialing a lotterysystem and it does seem to be, you know,
where you have to meet a certain qualitythreshold, and then after that it's a
lottery because there is this challenge.
I mean, again, in the UK all theresearch funding is concentrated.
You know, it's, it's like createa system where the people who are
(31:54):
good at it then are, get better atit, get more money, get more money.
You know what I mean?
And it kind of snowballs whereas theother stuff just gets a bit lost.
So, yeah.
So it's interesting we shall seewhat's happened, but I mean, that's
something that I've seen people talkingabout for or maybe five years and
now it's actually starting to happen.
So yeah, maybe with our, in our lifetimes,we might see some of it come to fruition
Tamika Heiden (32:17):
Fingers crossed, fingers crossed, and before all the
great researchers just give up andI don't know, go start a business.
Sarah McLusky (32:24):
Yeah, maybe just everybody be doing private research
or something, I don't know.
But anyway, thank youso much for your time.
We should think about wrappingup, especially because we are
recording this on a Friday evening,which is very good of you, Tamika,
because of the time difference.
It's a Friday evening for you.
So if people want to find out more aboutyou, your events, get in touch, where are
(32:46):
the best places for them to go and look?
Tamika Heiden (32:49):
Well, we are on X now, I guess it's called rather than Twitter.
We are on BlueSky.
You can just put in Research ImpactAcademy across any of these channels.
I'm on LinkedIn under Tamika Heiden.
We have our company page aswell, Research Impact Academy.
We're on Instagram, I believe.
We're on Facebook.
Sarah McLusky (33:09):
All the places.
Tamika Heiden (33:10):
We are in all the places.
We do have a YouTube channel, so maybethat's a nice place to start as well.
But I don't know if you give anylittle links with the the notes, but
Sarah McLusky (33:21):
the links in the, I'll put all those links
in the show notes so people can
Tamika Heiden (33:24):
yeah, and if anyone wants to reach out, we
can put email there as well.
Sarah McLusky (33:28):
Perfect.
Thank you so much.
It's been great to hear about allthe stuff that you're doing and yeah,
good luck with the Summit and all theother things you've got coming up.
Tamika Heiden (33:39):
Thank you so much, Sarah.
It's been wonderful to talk to you.
Sarah McLusky (33:43):
Thanks for listening to Research Adjacent.
If you're listening in a podcast app,please check your subscribed and then
use the links in the episode descriptionto find full show notes and to follow
the podcast on LinkedIn or Instagram.
You can also find all the links and otherepisodes at www.researchadjacent.com.
Research Adjacent is presentedand produced by Sarah McLusky,
(34:03):
and the theme music is byLemon Music Studios on Pixabay.
And you, yes you, get a big goldstar for listening right to the end.
See you next time.
There's all sorts of little fun facts about how the UK
stole Australia's idea on impact andstarted doing it before we did it.
But what I realised really quicklyis it doesn't matter what we call
it, what it matters is that we makethe difference we're trying to.
11 years ago I decided that maybe Icould help more people if I consulted.
(00:21):
So I left my nice cozy job andbecame a consultant and hanging out
that shingle was very, very scary.
I'm seeing that good work is beingdismissed or not funded purely
because of the system, notbecause of the work in itself.
And for me, that is really heartbreaking
Sarah McLusky (00:43):
Hello there.
I'm Sarah McLusky andthis is Research Adjacent.
Each episode I talk to amazing researchadjacent professionals about what
they do and why it makes a difference.
Keep listening to find out why wethink the research adjacent space
is where the real magic happens.
(01:06):
Welcome one and all to today'sResearch Adjacent podcast.
I'm your host, Sarah McLusky, and beforeI welcome our guest, I just wanted to
thank you for taking the time to listen.
I know that your time and attentionare precious, so it means a lot
that you're choosing to spendthat time with this podcast.
If you want to show your appreciation,the most impactful thing you can do
is subscribe to the show and leavea rating or review in whichever
(01:27):
podcast app you are listening in.
It really does make a big difference.
Also, if you're listening aroundthe time of release, I'll be taking
a short summer break after thisepisode, but we'll be back in
September, 2025 with some new guests.
But back to today's guest.
So Tamika Heiden is the founder of theResearch Impact Academy, a consultancy
(01:48):
based in Melbourne, Australia,serving clients all over the world.
That global perspective on impact issomething that we really dig into,
including the perhaps controversialtale of how the UK stole the
idea of impact from Australia.
We also talk about how Tamika'scareer in business has evolved as
the funding landscape and researchpriorities have changed, from
researcher to research management toknowledge translation, and now impact.
(02:13):
We also talk about the challenges ofstepping out of her comfort zone and
starting a business that has grown from aone woman band into an international team.
If you are listening to this episodearound the time of release, which
is in August, 2025, make sure thatyou register for Tamika's free
online Research Impact Summit.
Now in its 10th year this event,which will be on the 1st and 2nd
(02:34):
of September, will look back at 10years of progress in research impact.
You can register atresearchimpactsummit.com or
follow the link in the show notes,but don't go there just yet.
Listen on for Tamika's story.
Welcome to the podcast, Tamika.
It is fantastic to have you here.
I wonder if we could start byhearing a bit about who you
(02:55):
are and what it is that you do.
Tamika Heiden (02:58):
Yeah, that's a great question, Sarah.
I ask myself some of that everyday, but so I am the director of
the Research Impact Academy, that'sa consulting agency in Australia.
And as part of that I get to work witha lot of academics all over the world,
and obviously mostly in Australia aswell, to help them have an impact.
(03:18):
So that looks like, you know, training,coaching, providing other types of
services to support them in grantwriting, those types of activities.
We do some stuff with government andthings as well, but I guess my day
job is a balance between running abusiness and being a business owner and
operationally serving my clients as well.
(03:39):
So a bit of both of those things.
Sarah McLusky (03:42):
Yeah.
I think anybody who's listening, who isa, a, either a business owner themselves
or is something like a project managerwill understand that it's that, you
know, little bits and pieces of thisand sometimes delivering things.
So yeah, it's interestingthat you work on impact.
And I think from what I've seen,the only places that people are
really using the language of impactseem to be the UK and Australia.
(04:06):
So how did you come into working in thissort of thing and, and is this impact
agenda a big thing in Australia as well?
Tamika Heiden (04:18):
It's an interesting point.
There are other places in the worldthat look at it, I think Australia
definitely started talking about it.
There's all sorts of little funfacts about how the UK stole
Australia's idea on impact andstarted doing it before we did it.
Sarah McLusky (04:34):
Oh
Tamika Heiden (04:35):
Well well that was really because one of our governments had decided
we were gonna have an impact assessment.
And a lot of people listeningprobably are aware of the UK Research
Excellence Framework Impact Assessment.
Well before it became the UK's.
Research impact the assessment aspart of the REF, they had decided
(04:56):
they were gonna do it in Australia.
Then we had a, a sort of a governmentreshuffle, somebody boosted out
the current sitting Prime ministerand they changed their tack and we
didn't do it, but the UK ran with it.
And so that was kind of an interestingdevelopment that happened with Impact.
So Australia, we gave up thatopportunity to do impact a little bit.
(05:20):
We did try it a little bit later.
But generally speaking, to kind of circleto your question, originally before I
got you all excited about how you stolesomething from us, 'cause you know, I know
you sent all the convicts to Australia.
Sarah McLusky (05:32):
Oh.
Tamika Heiden (05:32):
It, it I fell into it a little bit by accident, I guess.
My, my passion was as a researcher, so Idid a PhD and I, I really loved research
and I wanted to stay in research, but it'svery hard to have a career in that space.
So I started to, I moved into sort ofmanaging other people's research projects,
(05:53):
and as part of doing that, I, I becamea bit more administrative I guess.
And then one day I went to thistalk by somebody who had started
working at our institute who wastalking about research management.
And I had never heardof that as a profession.
And I was like, I thinkI've found my thing.
It's like this mix of research.
(06:13):
'cause you're, you're workingwith researchers and a mix of,
you know, admin and all the othertypes of activities go with that.
So that's perfect for me, I think.
I think this is what I wanna do.
So finally, I thought I knew what Iwanted to do and I grew up, but in fact
I then sought out jobs in that spaceand I managed to get a job managing
a National Center of Excellence.
(06:35):
And in doing that, theystarted talking about something
called knowledge translation.
I was fascinated.
I was like, what's thisknowledge translation thing?
And so I started Googling.
I found some people who knew all aboutit in Canada, in fact, and then I found
a course in Canada that I went and did.
And I thought this was gonna be my thing.
(06:56):
I found my people, I was very excited.
This was my forever job.
Came back to Australia after my training,all very excited and started really
bringing that aspect into my work.
And then I, through doing that,I started to wanna do more.
I was like, more peopleshould be doing translation.
(07:18):
I can help more people.
And then 11 years ago I decided that maybeI could help more people if I consulted.
So I left my nice cozy job andbecame a consultant and hanging out
that shingle was very, very scary.
So yeah, I guess I fell intoit because of a passion.
I became incredibly passionate aboutit, and it was over a number of years
(07:42):
doing knowledge translation to start inmy consultancy that then that morphed
into impact because it turned outthat what I was talking about was, was
impact, but not end of line impact.
I was talking about impact creationrather than impact measurement.
In fact, I had said to everyone, I don'twanna do impact, impact's too hard.
(08:02):
But it came, came about becausereally that's what the sector wanted.
It's what everyone was discussingand I realised it's, it's all
just words, it's terminology.
Sarah McLusky (08:12):
I think yeah, really interesting that, about the terminology
because I, I've, I've said this oftenin conversation, I can't remember if
I've ever said it on the podcast, butthat we, we talk about, yeah, knowledge
translation, knowledge transfer.
We talk about public engagement,we talk about, you know, public
involvement, patient involvement.
It's, and it's almost like.
(08:32):
they're all, as you say, slightlydifferent words for kind of the same
thing for all sort of working incollaboration with partners to help
get the research out into the world.
And then all of those can be these routesimpact and it's almost like impact's
the end of the line no matter what theprocess that you're doing to get there.
(08:56):
But yes, the language, what'syour take on the, the language,
the terminology around this?
Tamika Heiden (09:01):
Yeah, it's, it's a huge area and you talk to different people.
They have different waysof talking about it.
Exactly as you said, you know,engagement, exchange, commercialization,
dissemination, communication.
There's so much about it, andit was quite fascinating when
I first got into this space.
I remember one of my early conferences,where they were talking about knowledge
(09:22):
translation and there was an entire daydedicated to what we should call it.
And I realised pretty quickly atfirst I was really clinging on to,
which should be knowledge translationbecause that's what I'm used to.
And you kind of, we love to holdon to things that we're used to.
But what I realised really quicklyis it doesn't matter what we call it,
(09:42):
what it matters is that we make thedifference we're trying to, and I like
how you sort of mentioned that reallythey're all routes to the same thing.
It's all about getting tochange, to improving things,
and to having that impact.
Sarah McLusky (09:55):
So yeah, it makes sense how you've gathered all that
knowledge, that experience togetherand decided to focus on impact.
And what's really interesting is you'resaying there that you did your training
initially in Canada and then took thatback to Australia and now you do a lot
of work around the world, don't you?
I know you do a lot of work inthe UK so what is it like having
that international perspective onimpact and what we mean by impact?
Tamika Heiden (10:21):
Yeah, Look, I learn so much from the UK.
In fact, I really think what wethought for a long time in Australia
and, and I still believe it, isthat the UK had it all together.
You guys were doing impact.
You're all experts in impactbecause you're all doing it.
We realised pretty quickly that that'skind of a generalisation, but we
(10:44):
definitely learn from other things,and I'm learning a lot from the UK.
I'm also learning a lot from ourexperiences growing here in Australia,
but definitely in the early days itwas looking at those international
sectors, whether it's Canada and allthe translation mobilisation work,
whether it's the UK and the impactwork, and even whether it's places
(11:04):
like Hong Kong does impact staff.
There's a bit in Asia anddifferent ways of looking at it.
Even New Zealand was doingthings slightly differently.
Ireland was looking atimpact in different ways.
So there was a number of countriesthat when you started to delve into
it, you found all these little pieces,and it was really a great way to learn,
was to say, what are others doing?
(11:26):
In fact, one of the very first things,and the reason I kind of started my
business, I guess, was because I kind ofsaw on the horizon that this was coming.
Sarah McLusky (11:35):
Mm-hmm.
Tamika Heiden (11:36):
Even though in Australia we had.
Put our, our little impactagenda on the, on the back shelf.
I realised that the UK had run with thispretty big time and other countries like
Canada were talking about translation.
And in fact, they'd been talking about itsince I think the year 2000 in that stage.
And, and this was, you know, I wassaying we're still gonna be 20 years
(11:57):
behind if we don't do something.
So I kind of thought it was worth a risk.
I think it's coming.
Surely Australia has to keep upand meet the other requirements of
other countries when it comes tofunding and things like that as well.
Sarah McLusky (12:13):
Yeah.
Well, it sounds like certainly in termsof what I've seen happen in the UK in the
last 11 years, that's definitely been thedirection of travel and, and increasingly
this focus more on impact as, as, asyou say that the, the kind of end of the
line, the thing that we're aiming for.
So tell us a bit more about, yousaid that in your business you
do sort of training, coaching.
(12:34):
I know you organizeevents and conferences.
Tell us a little bit, bit more aboutsome of those things that you do.
Tamika Heiden (12:40):
Yeah well the training used to be the biggest component,
but these days the consulting hasbecome one of the biggest components.
So it's really interestinghow things flip around.
We now work a lot on grants, and I'mright in the middle of grant season
at the moment, so we help academicsto write their impact pathways,
to write their track records.
(13:01):
A lot of it's around language,it's around communication.
But one of the other things I do,as you mentioned, I, I have a, a
summit each year, so that's a bigpart of our business that we, that
we produce each year and, and share.
It's a, if I'm really honest, it's myway of learning 'cause I get to tap into
all these experts and interview them.
And so I'm kind of just sharingmy own professional development,
(13:24):
but don't tell everyone.
And,
Sarah McLusky (13:26):
That's exactly what I'm doing with the podcast.
Tamika Heiden (13:29):
Excellent.
Well, you know, it's a great way weget to meet people, we get to connect,
we get to build great connectionsand relationships with people.
We learn as we do it.
I think it's a really, it underpinseverything we do now, communication
and learning from others.
So yeah, they're the things that.
I do mostly in my business.
(13:49):
I mean, from time to time Ilike to dabble in other things.
You know, someone will say to me, Hey, canyou do an evaluation of a research center?
And I'll say, oh.
Yeah, okay.
It might not be a standardthing that we do, but yeah,
we'll definitely do that work.
And we've done some big ones of those.
We've done some reports fororganisations in other countries.
I'm doing some case studiesfor Hong Kong right now, so
(14:11):
it's a lot of different pieces.
And I guess what I love about that isit never gets boring, never gets boring.
Sarah McLusky (14:19):
Yeah, it is definitely when you're always working on a
slightly different area of researchor a slightly different you know,
country, different context that, yeah,definitely that sort of thing keeps
it really interesting for me as well.
Yeah.
Tamika Heiden (14:32):
I like the variety.
Sarah McLusky (14:35):
Excellent.
Oh, well, within that variety, I'm sureyou've done a few things that really
stand out as things that you're proudof or things that were really memorable.
Tell us maybe about a couple of those.
Tamika Heiden (14:46):
Yeah, well there are a few, and in listening to other speakers on
your podcast, I was kind of listening towhat other people have done and you know,
you kind of have that imposter syndromething that comes through sometimes.
But I really, in thinking through,you know, what am I really proud of?
And I do this quite often, in fact,and I found it to be a good practice
(15:08):
to do, is to not just reflect onthe things that aren't working,
but to reflect on those things thatmaybe have been really successful
because it's easy to put them aside.
One of the things that I did very earlyon maybe so around 10 years ago, is
that I had lobbied a little bit, ifyou like but helped to shape one of our
major research funding sources here inAustralia in the medical area, and it's
(15:34):
called the Medical Research Future Fund.
And they were starting up thisnew fund, one of the biggest
medical funds in the world.
And, so I kind of lobbied aroundhow I thought very passionately
that knowledge translationshould definitely be part of it.
And I ended up presenting evidenceto a senate committee inquiry.
And then I guess my proudest moment ofthat is that they named me when they
(15:57):
passed the bill in the in the parliament.
So I was kinda like, oh,my, my claim to fame.
That's my impact, right?
So I, I think other things though,I think I'm, I'm really proud of.
I guess my own braveryin starting a business.
I mean, that's a, it's a pretty big leapto go from academic to business owner.
And I realise that might sound a bitstrange, but one of the reasons I
(16:18):
left academia was actually because Iused to get really scared presenting.
Sarah McLusky (16:23):
Hmm.
Tamika Heiden (16:23):
I couldn't stand in front of people.
I couldn't run lectures and so.
I had to have the bravery tostand up and start doing that.
And I, you know, I remember myhusband saying, you're gonna do what?
He said, don't you hate that?
And I was like yeah, but I'm reallypassionate about this, so it's different.
Sarah McLusky (16:41):
Yeah.
Tamika Heiden (16:42):
I think that's, you know, that was the, the good thing.
So I guess you know, I'm.
I feel quite proud of the fact thatI've become a bit more comfortable
being uncomfortable, if you like.
I love that saying.
I'm, I guess I'm also kind ofproud that I took a really niche
area and built it into a business.
I, people say to me, what do you do?
(17:03):
And then I meet them again later.
They go, I'm still not sure what you do.
And people who are in academia and.
And that area, they know what I do.
But when I meet other businessowners, they sort of say, I
don't really get what you do.
And so it's quite an, it'squite an interesting one,
trying to explain what that is.
So yeah, there're some of the things thatI'm, that I'm proud of and, and one of the
(17:23):
most successful things I think I've everdone is the summit, the Research Impact
Summit, you know, it's in its 10th year.
Every year I get.
Around 1200 peopleregister for the summit.
And I'm, I think I'm reallyproud that it's free.
I, I love that it hassuch a good following now.
And you know, like we saidbefore, it's how we get to
meet people and learn things.
(17:44):
And it's my professional development,but I think the fact that it's gone
for 10 years and I now get peoplesaying, when's the next summit?
When's the next summit?
Can I be a speaker on the summit?
Is a really nice thing.
And I'm sure that you kind ofhave that same feeling about the
work that you are doing as well.
Sarah McLusky (17:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, that's it is, I mean, 10, keeping anevent going for 10 years is a remarkable
achievement as you know, I've done in thepast regular events and, and to keep that
energy going, it can be a real challenge.
So, yeah, that is an achievement.
But I love what you said there, I'vewritten it down on my notes, but
being, getting comfortable, beinguncomfortable, and certainly I think,
(18:23):
that step out to start your own businessis always, feels like a big risk, but
also it's that opportunity, isn't it?
And it, and it is about pushingyourself out of your comfort zone,
but it's remarkable to have almostdeliberately leaned into the thing
that scared you, scared you the most.
Tamika Heiden (18:42):
I dunno if it's remarkable or just stupid,
but I'll take it.
Sarah McLusky (18:49):
Yeah, well, I think it is always, these are the places
where we grow the most, aren't they?
The places where we just really pushourselves out of our comfort zones.
So yeah, a fantastic rolemodel in that respect.
But I'm sure that it hasn'tall been plain sailing.
So what are some of the, been someof the biggest hurdles along the
way in what you've been doing?
Tamika Heiden (19:10):
Yeah, there, there are quite a number of of hurdles.
I think.
When I think back originally and I startedin my business, I think the biggest
hurdle really was around my identity.
My identity was no longer as an academic.
My, my identity was no longer asbeing employed by someone else.
Moving from that world, one of thethings that happened is that most of
(19:33):
my clients knew me as an academic.
So here I was now coming back saying,I can help you to do better research.
But they knew me assomebody they work next to.
So,
Sarah McLusky (19:44):
Mm-hmm.
Tamika Heiden (19:44):
Seeing me in that different capacity, I think
was difficult to start with.
I mean, that's changed now, but atthat first piece, it took a lot to
convince people that I knew what I wastalking about and knew what I was doing.
But I think the, yeah, the identityof taking a risk, the identity of not
having a job that someone pays you togo to of having to make your own living.
(20:09):
There's this, the fear thatyou're not gonna survive and that
people are gonna say, oh, youtried it, but it didn't work out.
So you're constantly kindof carrying that with you.
I think, the other challenge was thatthe first few years are really hard.
You're on your own.
You're wondering if it's gonna work.
You're trying to convince everyonethat you know what you're doing and
you're trying to convince yourselfthat you know what you're doing.
(20:32):
Imposter syndrome is a massive challengeto overcome because it just sits
on your shoulder and says, really?
You think you can do that?
You think, who are you to do that?
Sarah McLusky (20:42):
Yeah.
Tamika Heiden (20:43):
so there are all of those elements that come, but I
think really the biggest challenge isworking well they say working in the
business and working on the business.
And so growing a business while youare the person doing the business, and
that's probably the biggest challenge.
And growing and being able to makeenough money to bring on staff and
(21:05):
to grow and to, you know, constantlyrealising that you, you're responsible
for someone else's food on the table.
Those types of things are actuallyvery scary and very challenging and
you know, it's taken a long time to getcomfortable with that as well, I guess.
But they have been the challenges.
I think there's been other challengesaround changes to the sector.
(21:30):
I think when COVID hit, I thought,oh no, what's gonna happen?
Because universities suddenly said, wedon't have any money and people were,
were a bit fearful about what was gonnahappen that didn't end up eventuating.
I'm still here that in, in fact, itturned out to be quite a positive thing
in the end even though it was a challenge.
(21:51):
I think I've been kind of lucky'cause when I think about it now
and as I talk about it, I feel likethose challenges are so, like little.
I'm sure there's been others.
I just, maybe I've justburied them so deep.
Sarah McLusky (22:03):
I think though you say little challenges, but I actually, the
more I do this kind of work and the morepeople I talk to, I think the, the stuff
that we've got going on in our own headis often by far the biggest challenge.
So when you see those issues youhad around imposter syndrome,
around this sense of identity.
(22:23):
You know, who am I if I don't do thisthing, if I go and do something different?
I think those for, for everybody.
I mean, the people that I, that I oftendo talks and things for, you know,
PhD students who are thinking aboutdoing something different and, and not
continuing in academia and, and they'relike, well, who am I if I'm not a
(22:44):
researcher in this, you know, an expertin this philosopher or whatever it is.
And so I think that identitypiece is really huge.
Absolutely huge.
So it can seem like from the outsidethat it's not a huge challenge, but
actually those are exactly the sortsof things that keep people stuck.
(23:05):
And so the fact that you've workedthrough them I think is, is again,
that's overcoming a big challenge.
Very definitely.
Yeah.
Tamika Heiden (23:14):
I think, and I think there are definitely
things that are attached to time.
I think now.
If I think about my identity, I refer tomyself as an academic in some circles, but
it's definitely not tied to my identity.
I think now my identity is definitelytied to running a business.
So it's the next step or being aconsultant, however you wanna pitch it.
(23:35):
But it's the next step now.
And, and it's quite funny, I dunnoif you have it in, in the UK, but
when we arrive back in Australia,when we've been overseas, we have
to fill in these forms and the formalways says, what's your occupation?
And I always grapple withwhat is my occupation.
And I used to put researcher back inthe day and, and then they would ask
(23:57):
you questions at the, at the border,like, oh, what do you research?
And now I've often been puttingentrepreneur, I figure it'll
ask a different question.
I don't know if that'swhat my occupation is.
Business owner, jack ofall trades, who knows?
But it's an interestingone to think about.
What is my occupation, I guess whenyou kind of do all these things?
Sarah McLusky (24:19):
Yeah.
And how do all this almost like,well, I think all of us are a
bit of a Venn diagram, aren't we?
Of all these different overlappingparts of who we are and what we do.
But no, I have faced exactly the sameproblem where I'm like, yes, what do I do?
What do I do?
I don't know, but yeah.
Tamika Heiden (24:35):
You work it out when you grow up.
I'm still working it out.
Sarah McLusky (24:37):
That's exactly one day when I grow up, I'll figure it out.
So speaking of all those things thatyou've gone through and, and forming
this new identity as a business owner, ifthere was anybody else either listening
to this who's either thinking about, justthinking about making a big change in
what they do, you know, whether that'smoving from academia into something
(25:02):
completely different, whether it'sstarting their own business, is there
any advice that you would give them?
Tamika Heiden (25:07):
Yeah, they might not wanna hear it then.
No.
There's lots of advice.
There's lots of advice, but I,I do like to laugh about it.
I think I would say be patient.
Sarah McLusky (25:18):
Mm-hmm.
Tamika Heiden (25:19):
Things do not happen instantly.
Maybe start something as a sidehustle before you take a leap.
I was fortunate I had support of,my husband has a job, so I had a
capability to be able to take a leap.
But if you don't have that backing, thenstart as a side hustle and be patient.
Grow things slowly.
(25:40):
I think finding yourpeople, that's a big one.
So for me, as I said to you when Idid knowledge translation, I thought
I found my people, which was great.
But when I started my business, I startedon my own again, and what I realised
is I had to find my people in business.
And so I found mentors and coaches andreally seeking out, as you grow and you
(26:02):
do new things, who are your raving fans?
Who are the people who are yourcheerleaders that are cheering you on?
So whatever it is you choose to do,whether it's business or something else,
get training and surround yourself withother people who maybe have been there.
People who pull you up.
We have this saying in businessthat you are, you are the sum of
the five closest people to you.
(26:23):
So you need to make sure thatthose five people are pulling
you up, not pushing you down.
The other one is be generous.
The more you give people,the more you get in return.
When I started this, I was, a bit green.
I really thought that you shouldn'tshare anything because if you
give away all your secrets, noone will pay you for your help.
(26:44):
And what I realised, and this isagain speaking of, you know, webinars
and summits and things that, thatI do that I don't charge for.
The more of that that I do, themore people who come and speak to
me because they wanna hear more.
And it's that opportunity,but I also think be genuine.
I, I used to think, you know, wewould say fake it till you make it.
(27:05):
And it's a reallyinteresting thing to do it.
And I think we do that a littlebit to hide that imposter
syndrome, you know, let's fake it.
But what I have realised, very,maybe slowly, or maybe as I've gotten
older, I've just gotten a bit morereflective on all of this stuff, is
that it turns out that really beingauthentic is the most attractive
quality, people are looking for that.
Sarah McLusky (27:27):
Mm-hmm.
Tamika Heiden (27:28):
attract people to you, you you, that helps you to surround
yourself with those right people andfind, other people who can support you.
If you're just really authentic, ifthings aren't going well, you need people.
You can say it's really not going well.
If things are going well, youneed people you can jump up
and down and celebrate with.
But it shouldn't just be a, Ihave to be okay all the time.
(27:51):
We have this saying in business, you know,every time you meet a fairly new business
owner, you'll say, how's it going?
And they'll say, oh yeah, it's great.
Really great.
But you know, that.
You know, they're not beinghonest with you necessarily.
And it's great when you meetpeople and they can go, well, it's
okay, but I wish it was better.
Or, well, they can say, actually,it's been really bad, so I think,
(28:13):
surrounding yourself with the rightpeople will allow you to be more genuine.
But yeah, be, be open and willing tolearn and to do things differently and
to self-reflect and to find people youcan reflect with and take on all of
those challenges, I think is probablythe, the number one thing I'd suggest to
anyone who wants to change their career.
Sarah McLusky (28:33):
Oh, that sounds like really good advice.
Thank you for that.
And then speaking of, of changing things,I do like to ask all my guests, if
they had a magic wand, what would theychange about the world that they in?
So what would you like todo with your magic wand?
Tamika Heiden (28:49):
Oh, I would like to create more hours in a day.
More weeks in a year.
More minutes in an hour.
Sarah McLusky (28:56):
What would you do with them?
Tamika Heiden (28:57):
Oh.
I'd probably still just work,which is very, very sad.
I feel like I would like to do andachieve so much more, and I think
that's a really bad hangover frombeing that A type personality that
you know, wants to, is driven.
I, I think, but to be, Iguess, a bit more serious.
(29:18):
One of the things, if I thinkabout it, that I'd really love
to change in the world that I'mworking in and in my sector.
I'd really like to change fundingand the success landscape of
academics and researchers.
I'd like to make it a bit easier.
So I guess I'd, I'd like to havemore influence on how the funders
(29:38):
are structuring what they'reasking for, managing peer review.
Because in an ideal world, I'd reallylike to see a bit more of a, a better
or a more fair system that is helpfulto the sector, and I guess I'm speaking
really specifically in the Australiancontext on this because that's
where most of our work on that is.
(29:59):
But really I'm seeing that goodwork is being dismissed or not
funded purely because of the system,not because of the work in itself.
And for me, that is really heartbreakingbecause my entire purpose and reason
for being as a business owner inthis space is to make sure that
(30:22):
those academics can have an impact.
And the only way they can do that is toremain in academia and do great work.
Sarah McLusky (30:29):
Yeah.
I think that it is interesting to see theconversation around this and to see some
of the experiments that, that people aretrying around how you distribute funding.
But I think it's anongoing challenge isn't it?
So.
Tamika Heiden (30:45):
It really is.
And I, I, you know, I often joke, andevery now and again, someone agrees with
me, but I do just think, you know, oncewe decide that something is a, a good
application and it's fundable, it shouldjust be a lottery because we've gotta
remove the bias out of these things.
We, I think there's so much change.
And that's the other thing, and wesee this a lot, is all the changes
(31:07):
that happen every time there's a newgrant or the same grant, but the next
year, the changes, they're alwaysmoving the goalposts for people.
And I feel like people are spendingso much time writing these grants that
they could be using, doing the work.
Sarah McLusky (31:24):
Yeah,
Tamika Heiden (31:25):
that's where I start to get frustrated.
So, you know, it's,something's gotta change.
I don't know it, it probablywon't in in my time, but
Sarah McLusky (31:34):
I think there is a couple, I've seen a couple of reports recently
where people are trialing a lotterysystem and it does seem to be, you know,
where you have to meet a certain qualitythreshold, and then after that it's a
lottery because there is this challenge.
I mean, again, in the UK all theresearch funding is concentrated.
You know, it's, it's like createa system where the people who are
(31:54):
good at it then are, get better atit, get more money, get more money.
You know what I mean?
And it kind of snowballs whereas theother stuff just gets a bit lost.
So, yeah.
So it's interesting we shall seewhat's happened, but I mean, that's
something that I've seen people talkingabout for or maybe five years and
now it's actually starting to happen.
So yeah, maybe with our, in our lifetimes,we might see some of it come to fruition
Tamika Heiden (32:17):
Fingers crossed, fingers crossed, and before all the
great researchers just give up andI don't know, go start a business.
Sarah McLusky (32:24):
Yeah, maybe just everybody be doing private research
or something, I don't know.
But anyway, thank youso much for your time.
We should think about wrappingup, especially because we are
recording this on a Friday evening,which is very good of you, Tamika,
because of the time difference.
It's a Friday evening for you.
So if people want to find out more aboutyou, your events, get in touch, where are
(32:46):
the best places for them to go and look?
Tamika Heiden (32:49):
Well, we are on X now, I guess it's called rather than Twitter.
We are on BlueSky.
You can just put in Research ImpactAcademy across any of these channels.
I'm on LinkedIn under Tamika Heiden.
We have our company page aswell, Research Impact Academy.
We're on Instagram, I believe.
We're on Facebook.
Sarah McLusky (33:09):
All the places.
Tamika Heiden (33:10):
We are in all the places.
We do have a YouTube channel, so maybethat's a nice place to start as well.
But I don't know if you give anylittle links with the the notes, but
Sarah McLusky (33:21):
the links in the, I'll put all those links
in the show notes so people can
Tamika Heiden (33:24):
yeah, and if anyone wants to reach out, we
can put email there as well.
Sarah McLusky (33:28):
Perfect.
Thank you so much.
It's been great to hear about allthe stuff that you're doing and yeah,
good luck with the Summit and all theother things you've got coming up.
Tamika Heiden (33:39):
Thank you so much, Sarah.
It's been wonderful to talk to you.
Sarah McLusky (33:43):
Thanks for listening to Research Adjacent.
If you're listening in a podcast app,please check your subscribed and then
use the links in the episode descriptionto find full show notes and to follow
the podcast on LinkedIn or Instagram.
You can also find all the links and otherepisodes at www.researchadjacent.com.
Research Adjacent is presentedand produced by Sarah McLusky,
(34:03):
and the theme music is byLemon Music Studios on Pixabay.
And you, yes you, get a big goldstar for listening right to the end.
See you next time.
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