In this episode of Restaurant Catering Smarts, Michael Attias sits down with George Westberry, Director of Marketing Initiatives at Red Hot & Blue Barbecue. With 13 years at the brand and a career that began in the back of the house as a chef, George has a unique perspective on how marketing, hospitality, and operations come together to grow both dine-in and catering sales.
George shares how Red Hot & Blue has leveraged community connections, consistent branding, and strategic campaigns to expand catering while staying true to their barbecue roots. He explains why gratitude and kindness are powerful business tools, how cross-functional collaboration fuels growth, and why marketing must have a dedicated focus on catering to succeed.
Michael and George also dive into the evolution of restaurant marketing—from grassroots efforts to the role of technology—and the importance of creating a seamless guest experience across every touchpoint.
If you want practical insights into building catering awareness, aligning marketing with operations, and turning brand values into sales, this conversation is packed with takeaways you can put into practice.
Restaurant Catering Smarts is sponsored by CaterZen Catering Software.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:27):
Hello again, I am Michael Atiyah, your host of Restaurant Catering Smarts and today'sguest is George Westberry, Director of Marketing Initiatives at Red Hot and Blue Barbecue
with a strong background in restaurant marketing and brand growth.
George has been instrumental in shaping strategies that drive both dine-in and off-premisesuccess for the Red Hot and Blue brand.
(00:49):
Crafting campaigns that resonate with guests to supporting initiatives, expand cateringand community.
George combines creative vision with practical execution.
He brings a fresh perspective on how marketing can fuel catering sales and brandawareness.
And we're excited to have him on the show today.
But before we get started, let's take a minute to recognize our sponsor, CaterZen CateringSoftware.
(01:10):
They help restaurants turn their catering chaos into calm.
Discover why restaurants trust CaterZen to save them time and increase sales.
Go to caterzen.com and sign up for a walkthrough of the software.
Now let's dive into this episode of Restaurant Catering Smarts.
Welcome George, how's it going?
It's going great.
Thanks for inviting me to be on the show.
Man, thanks for being here.
(01:31):
I like to get everyone started with a little icebreaker question, get to know maybesomething about you nobody thought about including yourself.
Give me a number between one and 300.
123.
That's interesting.
What's the best compliment you've ever received?
ah my goodness.
I it would have to be kindness.
(01:53):
Getting complimented for being kind always goes a long way.
Nice, nice.
No, you can never be too kind.
You know, I think that I've gotten into in the last year is I'd like to tell people howmuch I appreciate them.
You know, when you go out and someone's pouring you a cup of coffee, they're waiting onyou, they do something.
Hey, I appreciate you because.
(02:13):
I think a lot of people just takes people who serve them for granted and I feel veryfortunate.
I used to wait tables and I used to bust tables and wash dishes that I am appreciativethat they're doing it and I don't have to go take care of it myself.
So I'm very appreciative of anybody who works hard to help me out.
Our industry is a great one to give out thanks to, because like you said, my past is backa house.
(02:38):
I was in fine dining and worked as a chef for a number of years.
So getting a little attaboy every now and then, or hey, thanks for being here and servingme and my family, always goes a long way.
Yeah, I was at a conference for uh one of our large clients and the coffee shop opens likeit.
I don't know what time it was in the afternoon.
(02:59):
They reopened after four o'clock and the woman had such a great attitude like justinfectious like she wanted to be there.
She wanted to serve.
I gave her like a $20 tip.
She almost started crying.
I'm like, you know, it's just so nice to see somebody who wants to take care of you andwants to be there, right?
You know,
You go through some drive throughs and it's like, you need to answer this question.
(03:23):
Why don't you just call it what it is?
You want to leave us a tip or not?
Like answer a question and then, you know, they can't even think to give you napkins to gowith your order.
anyway, going off on a little diatribe.
How long we're going to get into your background in a second, but how long have you beenwith Red Hot and Blues?
So I believe I just crossed over year 13 with the brand.
(03:46):
And in those years, I've had many different roles.
um And assume we can hit some of that on my background.
But yeah, year 13 with one brand, I've found a new year.
Exactly, muscle top.
So question, you know that my background's with courtesies, right?
(04:08):
Do you know, and if you know what you can tell the whole story or I can tell my story, doyou know the genesis of Red Hot and Blues, where it originated from?
So I know the back story.
I don't go back to the beginning of the company.
Obviously, we're older than that.
oh But I do know the general lay of the land.
But I'm already interested in what you're saying.
(04:29):
So I want to hear more.
So I was a server at Corky's in college and Don Pelts, the founder of Corky's was asked tolicense his know-how like how to cook barbecue, how to make barbecue sauce, the recipes by
Congressman Don Sunquist was a Tennessee congressman.
(04:51):
Lee Atwater I think was a lobbyist also played blues.
I don't know if you played bass or guitar.
I think those two guys raised the money.
They put together a limited partnership and there was a guy, I don't remember his namefrom Australia, who was sort of the first managing partner.
And I remember the guy coming down for like a month and working and I met him and youknow.
(05:12):
You know, I was just a server so I wasn't really super involved, but I knew of all thebackstory and um they opened up and they were wildly successful because you know, it's
Memphis barbecue in DC and you know the whole history and then I think what ended uphappening a year or two later.
The I think the guy was from Australia.
I think he embezzled some money from the company and you know, and then after that theygrew from there.
(05:35):
I don't know if they sold out and a bunch of other stuff, but you know, it's pretty neat.
Like if you look at the barbecue chains in this country, it's like seven degrees of realbacon.
Not Kevin Bacon like Sonny's bonos, you know fat boys.
They all come from the same lineage and if you look at Corky's it's Corky's.
(05:58):
Came from public eye, public eye, corkies, sticky fingers, red, hot and blue.
all, you know, they all have that same lineage, you know, it was pretty interesting.
It's a small world in the barbecue uh sector of America.
And that's a really cool story.
I didn't know all of the overlap there.
(06:19):
uh But yeah, through the years, mean, you know, a lot of the folks that were foundingmembers, founding partners of this company, uh you know, while many of them, of course,
have moved on, I think a couple have passed away, namely Sunny, our first Bitmaster, whothere are great stories about.
And I had the privilege of knowing Sunny and working
(06:40):
with him for a while and you know just real quick one of the the best stories I think everwas when Red Hot and Blue was getting started uh they were having issues they couldn't
smoke on site for whatever reason so Sonny pulled the smoker behind his car around theBeltway in DC and we'll just bring people in that lots of cool stories in the brand
(07:01):
through the years like that so
Yeah, every every brand has some cool stories and then you know, eventually you get bigand stodgy and all the cool shit that you could get away with when it was small.
You can't do anymore because you got HR legal and you know, a bunch of party poopers.
But you know, that's a whole nother.
(07:22):
That's a whole nother situation.
So how did you get in the barbecue business?
You know, you mentioned that.
You know, did you start off in high school in the restaurant business?
Was it after college and then had you, know, if you go from fine dining to barbecue, it'salmost sacrilegious, right?
Yeah, it was an interesting transition for me.
(07:44):
know, my roots with restaurant business go back to, like you mentioned, right after highschool.
uh And I did fine dining for a number of years.
One of the fine dining places that I worked for in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, uh hehad a great concept.
He had a great place.
We became the special occasion, which, you know, a lot of fine dining, small mom and popfine dining goes through.
(08:10):
And he just couldn't make
He was in like year five, maybe six and went under one of the people I worked with at thatplace worked for Red Hot and Blue on the catering sales team.
So I had a, when I first come to work with Red Hot and Blue, was part-time doing cateringsales and I was actually touring the other time that I wasn't with Red Hot and Blue with
(08:34):
my band at that point.
And you know, there was an overlap for me with the music, the food, the barbecue.
ah So yeah, was an interesting team.
You nailed it.
Yep.
I'm picking a bass player vibes.
You're a little too laid back to be a late singer.
I'm not picking up drummer energy.
(08:56):
Just bass player.
Just cool and chill.
chill vibe and go with the flow exactly.
So that's usually the bass player.
you can back a trailer, get along with people and sing a little backup vocals as well, youcan usually stay busy as a bass player.
back to your question though, yeah, I've worked in fine dining, different settingsthroughout the years.
(09:21):
Occasionally I would hop out of the restaurant industry and into something sales.
just a little more money there usually, but I'm a creative person by nature.
So this was kind of a good overlap for me with the opportunity to work with a brand thatwas so heavily steeped in blues and barbecue.
It just felt like a good place to put roots for a while.
(09:41):
That's cool.
So let's talk about when you first started selling catering part time.
How many hours a week were you working?
Probably 25-ish hours at max, part of a team, you know?
And is your catering sales playbook at Red Hot & Blue the same now as when you started?
(10:03):
Oh no, yeah, we've definitely adopted things through the years and over the years.
I mentioned I've had a few roles.
I was director of off premise for a while for Red Hot and Blue and then director ofstrategic initiatives.
And when I had that role, we really revamped and uh what we feel like improved a lot ofour SOPs, the way that we do things while still honoring, you know, the brand has been
(10:29):
around since 1987.
So obviously there's some things
that were going right.
So it was kind of a pruning, if you will, of the things that needed to be improved uponand, you know, trying to stay, you know, true to the things that were working.
So, you know, what I see out there a lot is either brands put no effort into sales ormarketing, or they have what I call an order taker, somebody who takes calls, but they're
(10:56):
not really trying to...
beat the bushes to find business, right?
Or they're relying on Easy Cater and there's false sense of, we have, you know, milliondollars a year coming in from Easy Cater, but by the time you split the pie, there's
nothing left but crumbs, right?
So when you started...
(11:16):
you know, working 20, 25 hours a week.
Why don't you give everybody just a very high level, like what a day in the life, a weekin the life, like what are the things you were doing to build catering sales at Red Hot
and Blues then?
Yes, that's a great question.
So the team that I worked with in the early days of Red Hot and Blue, we were inbound.
So everything that we were capturing was coming in from marketing efforts, following up onleads, and really, really uh mining our own database for, you know, repeat customers,
(11:49):
recurring customers, and building that relationship.
uh To your point, that only goes so far when you have a team that is uh inbound.
And it takes a collaborative effort with the operators that are on the ground, themanagers, um getting them involved and getting them really balled into the idea of how
(12:12):
valuable catering is as part of their annual income and how it can really move the needle,I think is top priority.
Having that person at each location that understands the value of catering.
Yeah, for sure.
And you know, obviously barbecue has an advantage that it travels well.
And unlike some concepts, you can do full service events, right?
(12:36):
So I'm sure you've done some huge events over the years where, you know, if you're asandwich shop, maybe you get a thousand box lunches.
But generally speaking, you don't have the same amount of opportunities as going and doingthese big barbecue events.
Yeah, and you nailed it.
And it is a combination of different types of events that have built our catering program.
(12:59):
uh Those full service events, again, really do move the needle.
Some of the larger ones can be worth going after every year and executing well so that youget them back year over year.
Yeah, for sure.
So going back to the early days, it was inbound.
You probably did some customer nurturing.
What types of things, like what database were you using back in the day to even keep upwith customers?
(13:26):
So it was an antiquated system.
ah I believe they were a company called Synergy and they rebranded a couple of times.
uh They had the nuts and bolts of what could have been a great platform.
ah We saw a lot of opportunities, missed opportunities because of really just deficits intheir understanding of what the needs of a company who is aggressively growing catering
(13:53):
sales needed.
Why do you think a lot of these?
Well, let me let me go back to the first point and then we'll get to the second.
So are you know, how are you like, what are you identifying within the customer list?
Like what are some of the key out?
Even though it's not outbound, but we'll just say customer retouches that you were doingback then, you know, probably in your downtime when it wasn't super busy, right?
(14:21):
What were you?
What things were you focused on?
Yeah, you obviously how frequently they're ordering, oh what are they spending?
uh Are they are they buying for themselves?
That was a really key component early on to understand was when you're limited by softwareof not really understanding your your customer database, uh trying to understand is that
(14:47):
person buying for their company or are they buying meals for other people?
And this is where you
start to open the door to things like pharmaceutical reps and repeat business where you'venow got this customer who not only is going to order food for their company, they're going
to be a brand ambassador and say, hey, there's this really great place.
Here's their menu.
(15:08):
I'd like to include them on some of our upcoming meetings.
Yeah, for sure.
And then you've got the individual versus the corporate buyer, right?
So you decide, you know, you're gonna your kids turn in 16, you're having a sweet 16 partyfor your daughter, and you need something for a pool party.
Well, that's sort of a one and done now.
Still need to keep them on your email list, because that person could be on a committee atchurch or on a picnic committee at work, you know.
(15:35):
they definitely might not be a repeat buyer, but they could be a repeat influencer.
So, but it's a totally different, you know.
Yeah, the direct to consumer versus business to business, a little bit different uhapproach there.
But to your point, thinking a little outside the box, graduations were something that wedid a lot of uh in the early days especially.
(15:58):
And you'd be surprised, lot of folks have more than one child.
So you do a good job on a graduation.
It can become recurring, and to a limited degree.
Most people don't have five or six.
did you do anything outbound at some point to get these graduation parties?
So it always has been a collaborative effort between the inbound team and the outbound.
(16:23):
So the answer to that question is yes.
The inbound team didn't directly do it, but we would put forth initiatives to the stores,the managers, the catering managers on site.
Hey, let's go visit these places.
uh
parties.
Like, you know, did you buy a list of parents of high school seniors?
(16:44):
Did you go to the schools and network with guidance counselors?
Let's roll up our sleeves and somebody who wants to be a little more aggressive in sellingand, you know, here's a niche that I could go after.
And it's what I call an evergreen niche.
Like every year there's a batch of kids graduating high school.
So you have that advantage.
Um, did you do anything super targeted or you know, walk me through that?
(17:09):
Yeah, so we found that there's value in partnership.
And I think that's true statement in life in general and in business.
And doing give backs and getting involved with not only the PTA, PTO, things like yourband booster clubs, uh and doing things where you're really making your brand top of mind
(17:31):
with not only the representatives of that particular organization, but the students andparents uh by saying, hey,
It's Millbrook Middle School spirit night, bring everyone in.
So those type of things, that was one way that we were able to do that without having tobuy a list of guests of just getting our.
(17:53):
you able to build a list from those people who came in or?
degree, yeah.
I mean, we've seen success through the years of that.
And I think that the oh band boosters would be one that comes to mind that always brings agood amount of uh additional business with them uh besides the actual catered event that
(18:14):
we do.
You see a lot of residuals from that sort of thing.
Very interesting.
So, you my background is even though I've been in the restaurant business, I probablyenjoyed the catering sales and marketing in the niche marketing aspect.
It's like trying to solve a puzzle, right?
Like where do I find these customers and how do I get them in my fold?
(18:37):
You know, you've been on our software for a while, so we're about to launch a reallyhigh-end CRM coming out soon, and then the next version will be a landing page generator
with QR codes.
So the vision is, let's take this high school, right?
know, going in support into the band boosters is indirect because I've got to get...
(18:59):
them involved either bring people in or we make a donation and you hope that peopleconnect the dots between, I had red hot and blues at this event and let's use them for a
kid's graduation party, right?
So.
What we're proposing is teaching people how to go to events and do lead gen with the QRcode.
(19:22):
So for instance, you go to the guidance counselor at these schools in your market.
So you you have a store in wherever and you say, Hey, there's five high schools that arewithin striking distance.
you're gonna be throwing some kind of open house for colleges for the kids and theirparents, probably a financial aid.
You know, most parents go to financial aid open house and you say, hey, we wanna be asupporter.
(19:47):
We're gonna bring out tea and lemonade and cookies and brownies.
Let us just set up and put out some menus.
And then you got a sign that says register to win a free graduation party for your child,you know, $250 value.
skin QR code.
Well, it's landing page, they put in their name, how old who's your kid's name, how oldare you know, Windsor graduating, you know, how many people you thinking about having for
(20:11):
your graduation party, whatever.
Well, now you've built a database of all these parents.
And three months before graduation, you use the CRM and say, Hey, I want to pull up a listof everybody who has put you know, filled out this format in this high school.
And
you're gonna pick one winner, everybody else wins second prize.
(20:33):
Mm-hmm.
Hey, congratulations, George.
You you entered this for your kid.
You didn't win first prize.
You won second prize.
First prize went to so and so, but you won second prize, which is free dessert.
And so now you have a very clear cut way and whether it's a bridal show or people walkingin your restaurant, it's it's sort of taking technology and a database and mixing the two.
(20:55):
So I'm super pumped about that because I think for the people that have sales teams, it'sgoing to be a definitive lead source and not just saying, hey, I'm going to
buy a list of parents of high school seniors and hope that it's a good list and it's aclean list and I'm getting hold of the right people and they're gonna pay attention.
Yeah, I think that's excellent.
And within a platform like CaterZen where you can segment and filter down by industrytype, I could see huge value in that because understanding when uh buyers are looking for
(21:27):
catering and how to get to just those people at the right time, I think is an importantfactor as well.
Knowing when it's time for someone to...
ah There's always a good time for catering and barbecue, but buyers go in patterns.
and looking for those things, I think is key.
Oh, for sure.
(21:47):
And I think that's the advantage you have with catering sales versus dining room sales,right?
It's very difficult to say, hey, I want you to come eat dinner today or lunch, becausethere's just so many variables, right?
But if you can identify these catering opportunities, whether it's Black Friday, holidayparties, company picnics, safety luncheons, there's a conference coming in town.
(22:11):
We did a lot of sports banquets.
Are you familiar with Ducks Unlimited?
No, I'm not.
So Ducks Unlimited is for duck hunters.
They raise money, they have chapters and it goes to conserve land for the ducks.
So it's like, I guess they're preserving what they're gonna kill, but you know, they eatwhat they kill and I mean, it's a conservation, know, they do a lot of good things and
(22:34):
they like to get together and eat and drink and give away shotguns and fancy shit forhunters and.
We became friends with the guy who was like overall that he was like the chapter Liaisonfor Tennessee.
So he had all these Tennessee chapters Brought him in knew him from somebody and he turnedme on to all these chapters So we would go to Pulaski, Tennessee, you know hour and a half
(22:59):
from Nashville who you know?
If you got 150 people who want to order ribs and pork and you know the whole she'll bangI'm driving an hour and a half, right?
Why wouldn't I?
So we did a lot of business with the Ducks Unlimited chapters in Middle Tennessee.
So there's all these little niches that you sort of back into.
And that's the advantage you have if you're willing to be proactive and not just, hey, thephone's ringing, know, people know who we are and hopefully they'll come to us.
(23:26):
Exactly.
Looking for those types of opportunities, thinking outside the box and building the engineso that the engine works to the end goal.
And I think, like you just mentioned, being able to use tools to organize that data iskey.
And that's kind of where we were in the conversation was that early on, you know, we didhave a platform, but we were still really in the dark ages.
(23:53):
um You know, if you wanted to order catering, you had to pick up
a phone and and or believe it or not facts and you know we we turned that corner in2017-18 of switching on online ordering and then of course when we you know rolled out
caters in it really opened the doors because now we had our own branded online orderingand like you said not giving away a piece of the pie where there's just crumbs left so
(24:21):
exactly.
So let's talk about, okay, your early days, you're doing inbound, you're doing a littlecross promotion with the teams in the store and a little bit of proactive, but within your
list, when did it transition to, we're gonna go out in the community and hustle upbusiness and what did that playbook look like?
Yeah, so, you know, this has always been something with Red Hot and Blue that, you know,with having the brand across the country at different points would live with the catering
(24:53):
manager and we would help them with initiatives.
One thing that we found that has been impactful is like you, you go, you target offices,you go in, you take a, an offer, let's say it's $10 off and you've got this nice little
promo that is channel specific.
Maybe it's dine in, maybe it's, you know,
uh delivery and during that process you're giving them something and at the same timedoing catering awareness, know, QR code.
(25:21):
So yeah, getting outside, that's been something that through the years we've started doingmore of uh getting out in the community targeting businesses and trying to get them to
order throughout different sales channels and I think for some guests it's a trust factor.
(25:41):
I'm going to trust you to feed my team, I need to know that your food is good.
I need to know that your packaging is, you know, at the very least adequate.
And really seeing a friendly face in the restaurant or a smile, like you mentioned, youknow, goes a long way.
The hospitality is a piece of that.
Yeah, and especially when you're dealing with catering, there's this, I'm trusting you tonot embarrass me, right?
(26:06):
So you need to show up on time and all that stuff.
So like right now in your stores or your markets, are the catering salespeople full time?
Yeah, so each store has a manager that will own uh the catering piece.
uh I'll use our Annapolis location as an example.
They have a dedicated catering manager and team who is full time and that's what they'refocused on.
(26:31):
Throughout different locations in the brand, it will vary a little bit, but it's usuallysomeone that is at least at a manager level and understands the importance of that
relationship.
know, catering is such a bigger marketing piece from
the lens of you you are selling an item one time you're gonna be in front of potentially ahundred people if you do a great job those hundred people may tell a couple of other folks
(26:59):
hey you did great so you've got your your marketing hat on and it's working for you if youbotch it those hundred people are gonna tell ten other people that you botched it so to
the point was ah that yes that there's a dedicated person that not only is
in each community, ah but that's going out and meeting folks and talking about the brand,giving out a freebie, taking samples, uh and trying to develop that relationship outside
(27:28):
of four walls.
You you can put all of the stuff in the restaurant you want saying we cater, but that'sreally, I think, where the rubber hits the road is when you start meeting, talking, and
developing.
For sure.
Now, are these people, is there job to spend 10 hours a week out, set the four walls 20hours a week?
(27:49):
Do they have like a quota?
We want you to knock on 20 doors.
How does that look?
Yeah, so I actually have done some of this for the brand through the years as well.
And, you know, we try to tailor it to what the needs of each location is.
So, you know, what fits at one may not be perfect for everyone.
ah But yeah, to your point, let's get out, let's talk to at least 20 people this week andlet's make sure that we're, you know, we're going and taking so many of these offers and
(28:17):
then we can kind of measure the return and connect the dots.
You know, did these folks redeem them?
Did we see that name of that business pop up on a big catering the next week or two monthsdown the road?
uh
Are you adding them a database to drip market them?
Yes, so we do have that mailing list and uh with Kater's Inn it's a great way to do it aswell once they order they're already in if they opt in and then keeping an external list
(28:48):
along with that so that you can compare ah who's responding, who's interested and who'skind of lead in terms of warm, hot, cold.
You can put them in the correct folder.
Are there any, you know, talking about marketing catering versus sales and looking back onyour career, um what are some really cool, creative, out of the box things that you can
(29:16):
share with the listeners?
Yeah, so, ah you know, one of the big things is just it seems so simple, like withbarbecue, obviously you're using your senses.
So when our folks go out, they're going to carry a branded bag so that folks see them.
ah And when they walk in the door, they're going to smell like barbecue.
(29:39):
And it looks like when you're walking in the door, you're bringing barbecue.
I have something for you.
They're excited.
And even though it may be an offer at that point, you've gotten a
a step closer.
And we've actually gotten some sales from the factor of, that was cute.
You walked in, you left the restaurant, obviously.
(29:59):
You're going to smell like Q.
If you're doing real Q, there's nowhere you're going to You're not going to smell likewood smoke.
And they're excited when you walk in.
And it's a moment to make them have an interaction with you and laugh and say, hey, we gotyou a step closer.
You can smell the Q here to get it.
it's funny, I don't think I have it anymore, but you sparked an idea you might want toconsider.
(30:23):
So you're going in there with like the hot bags.
Well, they're like a branded to-go bag that shows the logo and everything, but that smellslike our barbecue too.
Yeah, something that, you know, do y'all have like those oh insulator bags that, so arethey branded?
I believe we do have some branded ones, yeah.
Okay, so you walk into the office with a branded one and you take some half pans or evenshallow half pans and you put the marketing materials in the pan and then you put your
(30:53):
sticker on the outside and said, Hey, I brought you some barbecue and then they thinkthey're getting a pan of barbecue and then.
They have you have a leave behind, right?
It's all in there and you can put some coupons for the team and stuff and you know, youdefinitely get some attention with that.
Yeah, it's a great idea.
Talking about sparking inspiration.
(31:14):
I can see that happening and working.
But yeah, as far as like a cool story, that would be something I would tell you.
You walk into these offices where folks are going about their day and they get excited.
They smell the barbecue and it's a moment to laugh.
You can interact with them and say, hey, we're not quite there.
We're almost there and here's how we get there.
(31:35):
So yeah.
Yeah, well, I mean, you have to be memorable, right?
You know, and then once you get that opportunity, you really have to be memorable andgood, right?
You're not going to get a second chance.
Any other cool marketing promotions or catering sales strategies?
Yeah, I mean, we've done a lot of things through the years.
(31:58):
uh think, you know, from it sounds like, you know, boring email marketing, but we've hadsome fun with email marketing things as well, you know, and putting in just little, little
fun nuggets of things about the brand, developing the story of the pigs, our logos, andplaying around with that, uh that actually have resulted in some sales and making the
(32:22):
guests sort of interact with those.
to a degree and understanding their, you were talking about the bass player thing, kind oftheir personalities of the two pigs that have always been our logos.
Do they have names?
They do.
So the outgoing singer type personality that you were talking about earlier is Red Hot.
And he's an aggressive guy like spicy barbecue loud music.
(32:47):
The other one is Blue and Blue is a chill guy.
He's going to play an acoustic guitar and you know kind of lay back and just watcheverybody else around him get excited while he stays.
you know, really, really laid back and maybe like sweet barbecue instead of the spicystuff.
I never knew that.
(33:07):
I didn't know that that was the name.
See, I'm learning something.
Okay, so do you know a guy named Dan Kennedy, marketing guy, do know the name?
Okay, so he was my, I think I came across him a long time ago, very smart, very creative,and he had this.
Marketing campaign.
He called it something the mouse and basically he would send out a direct mail letter Andit would have a picture of the mouse in the top right corner of the letter and it was all
(33:35):
lowercase And it would say something like hey, my name's five of the mouse, you know Iwork in Dan Kennedy's office behind his file cabinets and you know He thinks he knows
everything about marketing and you know where he was sleeping.
I jumped up on the keyboard
And I decided I could write a better sales letter than he could.
And it's all in lowercase, right?
(33:56):
And you say, yeah, I had to jump from key to key or whatever.
And then it's it's kitschke and it's cute, right?
And you could probably do a two email campaign where red hot.
That pig is on the email, right?
And it's all lowercase like, hey, my what do pigs have?
(34:17):
They don't have pot.
What do they have hooves?
No, they don't.
whatever they're called, you know, pig feet, they got feet, you know, Hey, I can't reachthe shift key on the computer.
And, know, you know, our, our fancy head of marketing, George thinks he knows everythingabout getting people in the door or booking holiday caterings.
And, know, I'm going to teach him, I'm, I've got a red hot offer, blah, blah, blah.
(34:38):
And we're going to do this, this, and this.
And then, you know, a week later, Hey, you probably got something from my crazy brother,red hot, I'm blue.
I'm more chill.
And if, know, if you don't respond to that, Hey, no pressure.
I'd love for you to come in and it gets people, you know, it gets their attention, right?
It's just, and I've got somebody developing the voice and doing it all lowercase because apig can't hit the shift key, right?
(35:06):
So something to think about.
I've got somebody who's doing something in parks and recreation and she's got a dog andthey're doing some fundraiser for.
you know, Halloween thing for the city.
And I said, well, you know, your dog sort of the mascot of parks and recreation.
Why don't you have the pitch letter come from the dog?
And it's all lowercase.
(35:27):
It's like, hey, you know, when my owner was asleep, you know, she's worried about how arewe going to raise enough money for, you know, the Halloween for the kids?
And, you know, I told her, you know, I said, you know, I would handle, you know, I decidedI would take it upon myself.
So it gets chuckle and.
you know, what have you.
There's a lot of really creative things.
(35:49):
Why do you think, you know, when you look at catering sales, because, you know, there'severy chain says they cater, right?
Why do you think some brands invest in, you know, the catering sales team and the outreachand other teams?
It's almost like I don't know if they're scared or they're cheap or
(36:13):
because you know the impact, if you're in the barbecue business and you're even halfwaysuccessful, you know the impact that it has on sales, profit, and then the marketing
effect of feeding all these people your food that you could never do without the catering.
Why do you think some of these other brands are like, I use the word they're halfpregnant, like they don't commit to the pregnancy, they're just, they half acid.
(36:38):
Yep, I'm familiar and my best guest, Michael, is blinders.
you know, either this person is an owner operator who's in the restaurant every day andthat's their focus is keeping everyone happy.
And, you know, if I start going outside of my comfort zone, this is the unknown.
(36:59):
I know if I keep my dining room clean and I keep my drinks full and tables clear, myfood's good.
I know they're going to be happy.
So I think in short,
it's probably the unknown and from a you know more of your C-suite level I think it's nothaving folks that are on the the leadership team that are really bought in to off-premise
(37:19):
and understanding and understanding the impact of it ah and then lastly you know there'sthe conversation about channel segmentation so you know what a lot of brands call catering
ah And what a guest calls catering can be vastly different things.
So understanding where to set those parameters uh for some of the folks that you'rementioning that really don't invest, they may not realize they already have a catering
(37:46):
program ready to be nurtured.
It just needs the right ingredients to help it grow.
Yeah, and it's a shame because you'll spend all this money on equipment and pos andsignage and everything and it's like man just a little bit more invested in catering
you're gonna get Way better returns So i'm looking I rarely read my questions, but I didsee something that you bought a tiny home in the blue ridge mountains So tell me about
(38:15):
that.
How far is that from where you live?
Yeah, so uh my I've worked remote for Red Hot and Blue for a very long time.
I do travel a bit.
You know, I go to the areas where the stores are.
My home is about 30 minutes from my office where I'm at now and I'm in the big city ofMount Airy, North Carolina.
(38:36):
which is everyone knows as Mayberry.
You walk out on the main street outside my office and there's the Barney Fife car and Andyand all that stuff.
My home is actually about 30 minutes from here on the Blue Ridge Plateau and I got...
have two houses?
You have like one in the city and one up in the mountains?
small office that I work from.
mean, I can work from home as well.
(38:57):
Starlink, you you can connect anywhere, but I'm...
you're leaving full time in the mountain.
That's your full time home.
That's cool.
What does that do for you?
I mean, I live at the beach part time.
What does that do to your head space being able to work from a mountain home versus, youknow, living in suburbia or working in a condo or apartment or whatever?
(39:20):
Yeah, to me, think that I have a uh strong connection with nature.
So if I'm sitting in nature and I'm able to look around and it helps calm, a lot of timesit will help to open up the gates for inspiration.
It helps manage and reduce stress levels.
And I really think you, I think that it helps my thought process, you know, be a bit moreconcise, uh a bit more creative.
(39:49):
uh
certainly you know it doesn't it doesn't suck to look out the door and see nature and youknow the Blue Ridge Mountains and be surrounded by it.
You know, I think we all get in this rut, right?
Like I grew up, I was telling someone the other day, you know, we had one vacation a year.
We get in the car and go down to Florida for a week.
And then parents bust their ass for another 51 weeks to get us there.
(40:14):
And even if you, know, Nashville has a state park called Radnor Lake.
It's in the middle of Nashville.
It's got a beautiful lake.
It's an hour loop around the lake.
Even though I have to spend 30 minutes in the car to get there.
It's better than walking an hour in my neighborhood because like, I mean, I could be in, Icould be up in North Carolina.
(40:35):
You can't tell the difference.
I mean, it's not elevation, but it's, it's gorgeous and it's wooded and I've seen baldeagles and deer and stuff.
And I think.
Breaking the monotony of our lives to think a little bit differently look a little bitdifferently You can't put a I don't know how you put it, you know, even if you don't have
a mountain getaway Where can you get away even if it's a weekend a month or hey Saturdaymorning?
(41:01):
I'm gonna go hiking over here and you don't even it doesn't even have to be a difficulthike.
Just go walk around a lake or
damn, some golf courses are worth just walking around just so you're not, you your braincan rewire a little bit different.
I think we get into this myopic life of ours and you just need a little bit of a reset, alittle change of pace.
(41:22):
Exactly.
And that grounding, as I would call it, it helps impart a bit of humility for me that, youknow, hey, I'm really part of something a lot bigger.
ah And it just helps my flow is what I would say, how I think about things, how I managemy day.
Yeah, I can't.
(41:43):
I can't.
You know, I go to the beach, I go to Costa Rica, and it's just very, um I don't know, Ijust feel very blessed that I'm not just 50 weeks out of the year looking at the same four
walls doing the same things.
I think it definitely helps think outside the box.
And it puts you in a better mood, right?
That you can have a little reset, like, you know, even if it's just
(42:07):
Sunday morning, what can you do to get some kind of reset outside of what you normally do?
So that's cool.
That's really cool.
North Carolina's got some gorgeous, gorgeous mountains.
Yeah, it's a beautiful part of the country and I'm still getting the lay of the land.
I'm learning what's growing around me.
ah I found out that this first year that August is the time for golden chanterelles, whichis, oh, the golden chanterelles are delicious.
(42:35):
So we've transitioned from golden chanterelles to autumn olives now, which are sort oflike a little, kind of like a cranberry, they're an invasive.
but jams and jellies.
It's fun.
With my past life being fine dining, there's no shortage of things to keep me entertainedin that realm on my down times.
hey, send me a damn basket of chanterelles.
(42:57):
I'll go to town.
For sure.
That's cool.
Anything else you want to share before we sort of wrap up?
Yeah, you know, I just wanted to just reiterate that...
oh
Early on with Red Hot and Blue, the brand had been around for 30 years at that point.
I think that you have to build the engine to grow sales.
(43:18):
And the engine for growing sales, as you said, sometimes is that investment.
The investment piece for us of getting the technology in place that we needed to organizeourselves from a production standpoint, from a CRM and marketing standpoint, uh really
helped us turn the corner.
I mean, we saw 30 % sales growth year over year.
(43:39):
we're able to really look at and reap the benefits of making those investments.
to those folks that have the blinders on, they're really missing the mark on what'spossible when you're growing catering.
Yeah, and I think what I love about catering, you're not relying on the four walls, right?
If you just have a dining room, you know, they build something in front of your shoppingcenter, you're screwed.
(44:04):
At least with catering, you can get out and go after it, right?
So I love that.
Anyway, George, it was great talking with you and I appreciate your time today.
I hope you have a great rest of your day.
All right, it's been a pleasure.
Thanks for inviting me again.
Thanks.
Hello again, I am Michael Atiyah, your host of Restaurant Catering Smarts and today'sguest is George Westberry, Director of Marketing Initiatives at Red Hot and Blue Barbecue
with a strong background in restaurant marketing and brand growth.
George has been instrumental in shaping strategies that drive both dine-in and off-premisesuccess for the Red Hot and Blue brand.
(00:49):
Crafting campaigns that resonate with guests to supporting initiatives, expand cateringand community.
George combines creative vision with practical execution.
He brings a fresh perspective on how marketing can fuel catering sales and brandawareness.
And we're excited to have him on the show today.
But before we get started, let's take a minute to recognize our sponsor, CaterZen CateringSoftware.
(01:10):
They help restaurants turn their catering chaos into calm.
Discover why restaurants trust CaterZen to save them time and increase sales.
Go to caterzen.com and sign up for a walkthrough of the software.
Now let's dive into this episode of Restaurant Catering Smarts.
Welcome George, how's it going?
It's going great.
Thanks for inviting me to be on the show.
Man, thanks for being here.
(01:31):
I like to get everyone started with a little icebreaker question, get to know maybesomething about you nobody thought about including yourself.
Give me a number between one and 300.
123.
That's interesting.
What's the best compliment you've ever received?
ah my goodness.
I it would have to be kindness.
(01:53):
Getting complimented for being kind always goes a long way.
Nice, nice.
No, you can never be too kind.
You know, I think that I've gotten into in the last year is I'd like to tell people howmuch I appreciate them.
You know, when you go out and someone's pouring you a cup of coffee, they're waiting onyou, they do something.
Hey, I appreciate you because.
(02:13):
I think a lot of people just takes people who serve them for granted and I feel veryfortunate.
I used to wait tables and I used to bust tables and wash dishes that I am appreciativethat they're doing it and I don't have to go take care of it myself.
So I'm very appreciative of anybody who works hard to help me out.
Our industry is a great one to give out thanks to, because like you said, my past is backa house.
(02:38):
I was in fine dining and worked as a chef for a number of years.
So getting a little attaboy every now and then, or hey, thanks for being here and servingme and my family, always goes a long way.
Yeah, I was at a conference for uh one of our large clients and the coffee shop opens likeit.
I don't know what time it was in the afternoon.
(02:59):
They reopened after four o'clock and the woman had such a great attitude like justinfectious like she wanted to be there.
She wanted to serve.
I gave her like a $20 tip.
She almost started crying.
I'm like, you know, it's just so nice to see somebody who wants to take care of you andwants to be there, right?
You know,
You go through some drive throughs and it's like, you need to answer this question.
(03:23):
Why don't you just call it what it is?
You want to leave us a tip or not?
Like answer a question and then, you know, they can't even think to give you napkins to gowith your order.
anyway, going off on a little diatribe.
How long we're going to get into your background in a second, but how long have you beenwith Red Hot and Blues?
So I believe I just crossed over year 13 with the brand.
(03:46):
And in those years, I've had many different roles.
um And assume we can hit some of that on my background.
But yeah, year 13 with one brand, I've found a new year.
Exactly, muscle top.
So question, you know that my background's with courtesies, right?
(04:08):
Do you know, and if you know what you can tell the whole story or I can tell my story, doyou know the genesis of Red Hot and Blues, where it originated from?
So I know the back story.
I don't go back to the beginning of the company.
Obviously, we're older than that.
oh But I do know the general lay of the land.
But I'm already interested in what you're saying.
(04:29):
So I want to hear more.
So I was a server at Corky's in college and Don Pelts, the founder of Corky's was asked tolicense his know-how like how to cook barbecue, how to make barbecue sauce, the recipes by
Congressman Don Sunquist was a Tennessee congressman.
(04:51):
Lee Atwater I think was a lobbyist also played blues.
I don't know if you played bass or guitar.
I think those two guys raised the money.
They put together a limited partnership and there was a guy, I don't remember his namefrom Australia, who was sort of the first managing partner.
And I remember the guy coming down for like a month and working and I met him and youknow.
(05:12):
You know, I was just a server so I wasn't really super involved, but I knew of all thebackstory and um they opened up and they were wildly successful because you know, it's
Memphis barbecue in DC and you know the whole history and then I think what ended uphappening a year or two later.
The I think the guy was from Australia.
I think he embezzled some money from the company and you know, and then after that theygrew from there.
(05:35):
I don't know if they sold out and a bunch of other stuff, but you know, it's pretty neat.
Like if you look at the barbecue chains in this country, it's like seven degrees of realbacon.
Not Kevin Bacon like Sonny's bonos, you know fat boys.
They all come from the same lineage and if you look at Corky's it's Corky's.
(05:58):
Came from public eye, public eye, corkies, sticky fingers, red, hot and blue.
all, you know, they all have that same lineage, you know, it was pretty interesting.
It's a small world in the barbecue uh sector of America.
And that's a really cool story.
I didn't know all of the overlap there.
(06:19):
uh But yeah, through the years, mean, you know, a lot of the folks that were foundingmembers, founding partners of this company, uh you know, while many of them, of course,
have moved on, I think a couple have passed away, namely Sunny, our first Bitmaster, whothere are great stories about.
And I had the privilege of knowing Sunny and working
(06:40):
with him for a while and you know just real quick one of the the best stories I think everwas when Red Hot and Blue was getting started uh they were having issues they couldn't
smoke on site for whatever reason so Sonny pulled the smoker behind his car around theBeltway in DC and we'll just bring people in that lots of cool stories in the brand
(07:01):
through the years like that so
Yeah, every every brand has some cool stories and then you know, eventually you get bigand stodgy and all the cool shit that you could get away with when it was small.
You can't do anymore because you got HR legal and you know, a bunch of party poopers.
But you know, that's a whole nother.
(07:22):
That's a whole nother situation.
So how did you get in the barbecue business?
You know, you mentioned that.
You know, did you start off in high school in the restaurant business?
Was it after college and then had you, know, if you go from fine dining to barbecue, it'salmost sacrilegious, right?
Yeah, it was an interesting transition for me.
(07:44):
know, my roots with restaurant business go back to, like you mentioned, right after highschool.
uh And I did fine dining for a number of years.
One of the fine dining places that I worked for in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, uh hehad a great concept.
He had a great place.
We became the special occasion, which, you know, a lot of fine dining, small mom and popfine dining goes through.
(08:10):
And he just couldn't make
He was in like year five, maybe six and went under one of the people I worked with at thatplace worked for Red Hot and Blue on the catering sales team.
So I had a, when I first come to work with Red Hot and Blue, was part-time doing cateringsales and I was actually touring the other time that I wasn't with Red Hot and Blue with
(08:34):
my band at that point.
And you know, there was an overlap for me with the music, the food, the barbecue.
ah So yeah, was an interesting team.
You nailed it.
Yep.
I'm picking a bass player vibes.
You're a little too laid back to be a late singer.
I'm not picking up drummer energy.
(08:56):
Just bass player.
Just cool and chill.
chill vibe and go with the flow exactly.
So that's usually the bass player.
you can back a trailer, get along with people and sing a little backup vocals as well, youcan usually stay busy as a bass player.
back to your question though, yeah, I've worked in fine dining, different settingsthroughout the years.
(09:21):
Occasionally I would hop out of the restaurant industry and into something sales.
just a little more money there usually, but I'm a creative person by nature.
So this was kind of a good overlap for me with the opportunity to work with a brand thatwas so heavily steeped in blues and barbecue.
It just felt like a good place to put roots for a while.
(09:41):
That's cool.
So let's talk about when you first started selling catering part time.
How many hours a week were you working?
Probably 25-ish hours at max, part of a team, you know?
And is your catering sales playbook at Red Hot & Blue the same now as when you started?
(10:03):
Oh no, yeah, we've definitely adopted things through the years and over the years.
I mentioned I've had a few roles.
I was director of off premise for a while for Red Hot and Blue and then director ofstrategic initiatives.
And when I had that role, we really revamped and uh what we feel like improved a lot ofour SOPs, the way that we do things while still honoring, you know, the brand has been
(10:29):
around since 1987.
So obviously there's some things
that were going right.
So it was kind of a pruning, if you will, of the things that needed to be improved uponand, you know, trying to stay, you know, true to the things that were working.
So, you know, what I see out there a lot is either brands put no effort into sales ormarketing, or they have what I call an order taker, somebody who takes calls, but they're
(10:56):
not really trying to...
beat the bushes to find business, right?
Or they're relying on Easy Cater and there's false sense of, we have, you know, milliondollars a year coming in from Easy Cater, but by the time you split the pie, there's
nothing left but crumbs, right?
So when you started...
(11:16):
you know, working 20, 25 hours a week.
Why don't you give everybody just a very high level, like what a day in the life, a weekin the life, like what are the things you were doing to build catering sales at Red Hot
and Blues then?
Yes, that's a great question.
So the team that I worked with in the early days of Red Hot and Blue, we were inbound.
So everything that we were capturing was coming in from marketing efforts, following up onleads, and really, really uh mining our own database for, you know, repeat customers,
(11:49):
recurring customers, and building that relationship.
uh To your point, that only goes so far when you have a team that is uh inbound.
And it takes a collaborative effort with the operators that are on the ground, themanagers, um getting them involved and getting them really balled into the idea of how
(12:12):
valuable catering is as part of their annual income and how it can really move the needle,I think is top priority.
Having that person at each location that understands the value of catering.
Yeah, for sure.
And you know, obviously barbecue has an advantage that it travels well.
And unlike some concepts, you can do full service events, right?
(12:36):
So I'm sure you've done some huge events over the years where, you know, if you're asandwich shop, maybe you get a thousand box lunches.
But generally speaking, you don't have the same amount of opportunities as going and doingthese big barbecue events.
Yeah, and you nailed it.
And it is a combination of different types of events that have built our catering program.
(12:59):
uh Those full service events, again, really do move the needle.
Some of the larger ones can be worth going after every year and executing well so that youget them back year over year.
Yeah, for sure.
So going back to the early days, it was inbound.
You probably did some customer nurturing.
What types of things, like what database were you using back in the day to even keep upwith customers?
(13:26):
So it was an antiquated system.
ah I believe they were a company called Synergy and they rebranded a couple of times.
uh They had the nuts and bolts of what could have been a great platform.
ah We saw a lot of opportunities, missed opportunities because of really just deficits intheir understanding of what the needs of a company who is aggressively growing catering
(13:53):
sales needed.
Why do you think a lot of these?
Well, let me let me go back to the first point and then we'll get to the second.
So are you know, how are you like, what are you identifying within the customer list?
Like what are some of the key out?
Even though it's not outbound, but we'll just say customer retouches that you were doingback then, you know, probably in your downtime when it wasn't super busy, right?
(14:21):
What were you?
What things were you focused on?
Yeah, you obviously how frequently they're ordering, oh what are they spending?
uh Are they are they buying for themselves?
That was a really key component early on to understand was when you're limited by softwareof not really understanding your your customer database, uh trying to understand is that
(14:47):
person buying for their company or are they buying meals for other people?
And this is where you
start to open the door to things like pharmaceutical reps and repeat business where you'venow got this customer who not only is going to order food for their company, they're going
to be a brand ambassador and say, hey, there's this really great place.
Here's their menu.
(15:08):
I'd like to include them on some of our upcoming meetings.
Yeah, for sure.
And then you've got the individual versus the corporate buyer, right?
So you decide, you know, you're gonna your kids turn in 16, you're having a sweet 16 partyfor your daughter, and you need something for a pool party.
Well, that's sort of a one and done now.
Still need to keep them on your email list, because that person could be on a committee atchurch or on a picnic committee at work, you know.
(15:35):
they definitely might not be a repeat buyer, but they could be a repeat influencer.
So, but it's a totally different, you know.
Yeah, the direct to consumer versus business to business, a little bit different uhapproach there.
But to your point, thinking a little outside the box, graduations were something that wedid a lot of uh in the early days especially.
(15:58):
And you'd be surprised, lot of folks have more than one child.
So you do a good job on a graduation.
It can become recurring, and to a limited degree.
Most people don't have five or six.
did you do anything outbound at some point to get these graduation parties?
So it always has been a collaborative effort between the inbound team and the outbound.
(16:23):
So the answer to that question is yes.
The inbound team didn't directly do it, but we would put forth initiatives to the stores,the managers, the catering managers on site.
Hey, let's go visit these places.
uh
parties.
Like, you know, did you buy a list of parents of high school seniors?
(16:44):
Did you go to the schools and network with guidance counselors?
Let's roll up our sleeves and somebody who wants to be a little more aggressive in sellingand, you know, here's a niche that I could go after.
And it's what I call an evergreen niche.
Like every year there's a batch of kids graduating high school.
So you have that advantage.
Um, did you do anything super targeted or you know, walk me through that?
(17:09):
Yeah, so we found that there's value in partnership.
And I think that's true statement in life in general and in business.
And doing give backs and getting involved with not only the PTA, PTO, things like yourband booster clubs, uh and doing things where you're really making your brand top of mind
(17:31):
with not only the representatives of that particular organization, but the students andparents uh by saying, hey,
It's Millbrook Middle School spirit night, bring everyone in.
So those type of things, that was one way that we were able to do that without having tobuy a list of guests of just getting our.
(17:53):
you able to build a list from those people who came in or?
degree, yeah.
I mean, we've seen success through the years of that.
And I think that the oh band boosters would be one that comes to mind that always brings agood amount of uh additional business with them uh besides the actual catered event that
(18:14):
we do.
You see a lot of residuals from that sort of thing.
Very interesting.
So, you my background is even though I've been in the restaurant business, I probablyenjoyed the catering sales and marketing in the niche marketing aspect.
It's like trying to solve a puzzle, right?
Like where do I find these customers and how do I get them in my fold?
(18:37):
You know, you've been on our software for a while, so we're about to launch a reallyhigh-end CRM coming out soon, and then the next version will be a landing page generator
with QR codes.
So the vision is, let's take this high school, right?
know, going in support into the band boosters is indirect because I've got to get...
(18:59):
them involved either bring people in or we make a donation and you hope that peopleconnect the dots between, I had red hot and blues at this event and let's use them for a
kid's graduation party, right?
So.
What we're proposing is teaching people how to go to events and do lead gen with the QRcode.
(19:22):
So for instance, you go to the guidance counselor at these schools in your market.
So you you have a store in wherever and you say, Hey, there's five high schools that arewithin striking distance.
you're gonna be throwing some kind of open house for colleges for the kids and theirparents, probably a financial aid.
You know, most parents go to financial aid open house and you say, hey, we wanna be asupporter.
(19:47):
We're gonna bring out tea and lemonade and cookies and brownies.
Let us just set up and put out some menus.
And then you got a sign that says register to win a free graduation party for your child,you know, $250 value.
skin QR code.
Well, it's landing page, they put in their name, how old who's your kid's name, how oldare you know, Windsor graduating, you know, how many people you thinking about having for
(20:11):
your graduation party, whatever.
Well, now you've built a database of all these parents.
And three months before graduation, you use the CRM and say, Hey, I want to pull up a listof everybody who has put you know, filled out this format in this high school.
And
you're gonna pick one winner, everybody else wins second prize.
(20:33):
Mm-hmm.
Hey, congratulations, George.
You you entered this for your kid.
You didn't win first prize.
You won second prize.
First prize went to so and so, but you won second prize, which is free dessert.
And so now you have a very clear cut way and whether it's a bridal show or people walkingin your restaurant, it's it's sort of taking technology and a database and mixing the two.
(20:55):
So I'm super pumped about that because I think for the people that have sales teams, it'sgoing to be a definitive lead source and not just saying, hey, I'm going to
buy a list of parents of high school seniors and hope that it's a good list and it's aclean list and I'm getting hold of the right people and they're gonna pay attention.
Yeah, I think that's excellent.
And within a platform like CaterZen where you can segment and filter down by industrytype, I could see huge value in that because understanding when uh buyers are looking for
(21:27):
catering and how to get to just those people at the right time, I think is an importantfactor as well.
Knowing when it's time for someone to...
ah There's always a good time for catering and barbecue, but buyers go in patterns.
and looking for those things, I think is key.
Oh, for sure.
(21:47):
And I think that's the advantage you have with catering sales versus dining room sales,right?
It's very difficult to say, hey, I want you to come eat dinner today or lunch, becausethere's just so many variables, right?
But if you can identify these catering opportunities, whether it's Black Friday, holidayparties, company picnics, safety luncheons, there's a conference coming in town.
(22:11):
We did a lot of sports banquets.
Are you familiar with Ducks Unlimited?
No, I'm not.
So Ducks Unlimited is for duck hunters.
They raise money, they have chapters and it goes to conserve land for the ducks.
So it's like, I guess they're preserving what they're gonna kill, but you know, they eatwhat they kill and I mean, it's a conservation, know, they do a lot of good things and
(22:34):
they like to get together and eat and drink and give away shotguns and fancy shit forhunters and.
We became friends with the guy who was like overall that he was like the chapter Liaisonfor Tennessee.
So he had all these Tennessee chapters Brought him in knew him from somebody and he turnedme on to all these chapters So we would go to Pulaski, Tennessee, you know hour and a half
(22:59):
from Nashville who you know?
If you got 150 people who want to order ribs and pork and you know the whole she'll bangI'm driving an hour and a half, right?
Why wouldn't I?
So we did a lot of business with the Ducks Unlimited chapters in Middle Tennessee.
So there's all these little niches that you sort of back into.
And that's the advantage you have if you're willing to be proactive and not just, hey, thephone's ringing, know, people know who we are and hopefully they'll come to us.
(23:26):
Exactly.
Looking for those types of opportunities, thinking outside the box and building the engineso that the engine works to the end goal.
And I think, like you just mentioned, being able to use tools to organize that data iskey.
And that's kind of where we were in the conversation was that early on, you know, we didhave a platform, but we were still really in the dark ages.
(23:53):
um You know, if you wanted to order catering, you had to pick up
a phone and and or believe it or not facts and you know we we turned that corner in2017-18 of switching on online ordering and then of course when we you know rolled out
caters in it really opened the doors because now we had our own branded online orderingand like you said not giving away a piece of the pie where there's just crumbs left so
(24:21):
exactly.
So let's talk about, okay, your early days, you're doing inbound, you're doing a littlecross promotion with the teams in the store and a little bit of proactive, but within your
list, when did it transition to, we're gonna go out in the community and hustle upbusiness and what did that playbook look like?
Yeah, so, you know, this has always been something with Red Hot and Blue that, you know,with having the brand across the country at different points would live with the catering
(24:53):
manager and we would help them with initiatives.
One thing that we found that has been impactful is like you, you go, you target offices,you go in, you take a, an offer, let's say it's $10 off and you've got this nice little
promo that is channel specific.
Maybe it's dine in, maybe it's, you know,
uh delivery and during that process you're giving them something and at the same timedoing catering awareness, know, QR code.
(25:21):
So yeah, getting outside, that's been something that through the years we've started doingmore of uh getting out in the community targeting businesses and trying to get them to
order throughout different sales channels and I think for some guests it's a trust factor.
(25:41):
I'm going to trust you to feed my team, I need to know that your food is good.
I need to know that your packaging is, you know, at the very least adequate.
And really seeing a friendly face in the restaurant or a smile, like you mentioned, youknow, goes a long way.
The hospitality is a piece of that.
Yeah, and especially when you're dealing with catering, there's this, I'm trusting you tonot embarrass me, right?
(26:06):
So you need to show up on time and all that stuff.
So like right now in your stores or your markets, are the catering salespeople full time?
Yeah, so each store has a manager that will own uh the catering piece.
uh I'll use our Annapolis location as an example.
They have a dedicated catering manager and team who is full time and that's what they'refocused on.
(26:31):
Throughout different locations in the brand, it will vary a little bit, but it's usuallysomeone that is at least at a manager level and understands the importance of that
relationship.
know, catering is such a bigger marketing piece from
the lens of you you are selling an item one time you're gonna be in front of potentially ahundred people if you do a great job those hundred people may tell a couple of other folks
(26:59):
hey you did great so you've got your your marketing hat on and it's working for you if youbotch it those hundred people are gonna tell ten other people that you botched it so to
the point was ah that yes that there's a dedicated person that not only is
in each community, ah but that's going out and meeting folks and talking about the brand,giving out a freebie, taking samples, uh and trying to develop that relationship outside
(27:28):
of four walls.
You you can put all of the stuff in the restaurant you want saying we cater, but that'sreally, I think, where the rubber hits the road is when you start meeting, talking, and
developing.
For sure.
Now, are these people, is there job to spend 10 hours a week out, set the four walls 20hours a week?
(27:49):
Do they have like a quota?
We want you to knock on 20 doors.
How does that look?
Yeah, so I actually have done some of this for the brand through the years as well.
And, you know, we try to tailor it to what the needs of each location is.
So, you know, what fits at one may not be perfect for everyone.
ah But yeah, to your point, let's get out, let's talk to at least 20 people this week andlet's make sure that we're, you know, we're going and taking so many of these offers and
(28:17):
then we can kind of measure the return and connect the dots.
You know, did these folks redeem them?
Did we see that name of that business pop up on a big catering the next week or two monthsdown the road?
uh
Are you adding them a database to drip market them?
Yes, so we do have that mailing list and uh with Kater's Inn it's a great way to do it aswell once they order they're already in if they opt in and then keeping an external list
(28:48):
along with that so that you can compare ah who's responding, who's interested and who'skind of lead in terms of warm, hot, cold.
You can put them in the correct folder.
Are there any, you know, talking about marketing catering versus sales and looking back onyour career, um what are some really cool, creative, out of the box things that you can
(29:16):
share with the listeners?
Yeah, so, ah you know, one of the big things is just it seems so simple, like withbarbecue, obviously you're using your senses.
So when our folks go out, they're going to carry a branded bag so that folks see them.
ah And when they walk in the door, they're going to smell like barbecue.
(29:39):
And it looks like when you're walking in the door, you're bringing barbecue.
I have something for you.
They're excited.
And even though it may be an offer at that point, you've gotten a
a step closer.
And we've actually gotten some sales from the factor of, that was cute.
You walked in, you left the restaurant, obviously.
(29:59):
You're going to smell like Q.
If you're doing real Q, there's nowhere you're going to You're not going to smell likewood smoke.
And they're excited when you walk in.
And it's a moment to make them have an interaction with you and laugh and say, hey, we gotyou a step closer.
You can smell the Q here to get it.
it's funny, I don't think I have it anymore, but you sparked an idea you might want toconsider.
(30:23):
So you're going in there with like the hot bags.
Well, they're like a branded to-go bag that shows the logo and everything, but that smellslike our barbecue too.
Yeah, something that, you know, do y'all have like those oh insulator bags that, so arethey branded?
I believe we do have some branded ones, yeah.
Okay, so you walk into the office with a branded one and you take some half pans or evenshallow half pans and you put the marketing materials in the pan and then you put your
(30:53):
sticker on the outside and said, Hey, I brought you some barbecue and then they thinkthey're getting a pan of barbecue and then.
They have you have a leave behind, right?
It's all in there and you can put some coupons for the team and stuff and you know, youdefinitely get some attention with that.
Yeah, it's a great idea.
Talking about sparking inspiration.
(31:14):
I can see that happening and working.
But yeah, as far as like a cool story, that would be something I would tell you.
You walk into these offices where folks are going about their day and they get excited.
They smell the barbecue and it's a moment to laugh.
You can interact with them and say, hey, we're not quite there.
We're almost there and here's how we get there.
(31:35):
So yeah.
Yeah, well, I mean, you have to be memorable, right?
You know, and then once you get that opportunity, you really have to be memorable andgood, right?
You're not going to get a second chance.
Any other cool marketing promotions or catering sales strategies?
Yeah, I mean, we've done a lot of things through the years.
(31:58):
uh think, you know, from it sounds like, you know, boring email marketing, but we've hadsome fun with email marketing things as well, you know, and putting in just little, little
fun nuggets of things about the brand, developing the story of the pigs, our logos, andplaying around with that, uh that actually have resulted in some sales and making the
(32:22):
guests sort of interact with those.
to a degree and understanding their, you were talking about the bass player thing, kind oftheir personalities of the two pigs that have always been our logos.
Do they have names?
They do.
So the outgoing singer type personality that you were talking about earlier is Red Hot.
And he's an aggressive guy like spicy barbecue loud music.
(32:47):
The other one is Blue and Blue is a chill guy.
He's going to play an acoustic guitar and you know kind of lay back and just watcheverybody else around him get excited while he stays.
you know, really, really laid back and maybe like sweet barbecue instead of the spicystuff.
I never knew that.
(33:07):
I didn't know that that was the name.
See, I'm learning something.
Okay, so do you know a guy named Dan Kennedy, marketing guy, do know the name?
Okay, so he was my, I think I came across him a long time ago, very smart, very creative,and he had this.
Marketing campaign.
He called it something the mouse and basically he would send out a direct mail letter Andit would have a picture of the mouse in the top right corner of the letter and it was all
(33:35):
lowercase And it would say something like hey, my name's five of the mouse, you know Iwork in Dan Kennedy's office behind his file cabinets and you know He thinks he knows
everything about marketing and you know where he was sleeping.
I jumped up on the keyboard
And I decided I could write a better sales letter than he could.
And it's all in lowercase, right?
(33:56):
And you say, yeah, I had to jump from key to key or whatever.
And then it's it's kitschke and it's cute, right?
And you could probably do a two email campaign where red hot.
That pig is on the email, right?
And it's all lowercase like, hey, my what do pigs have?
(34:17):
They don't have pot.
What do they have hooves?
No, they don't.
whatever they're called, you know, pig feet, they got feet, you know, Hey, I can't reachthe shift key on the computer.
And, know, you know, our, our fancy head of marketing, George thinks he knows everythingabout getting people in the door or booking holiday caterings.
And, know, I'm going to teach him, I'm, I've got a red hot offer, blah, blah, blah.
(34:38):
And we're going to do this, this, and this.
And then, you know, a week later, Hey, you probably got something from my crazy brother,red hot, I'm blue.
I'm more chill.
And if, know, if you don't respond to that, Hey, no pressure.
I'd love for you to come in and it gets people, you know, it gets their attention, right?
It's just, and I've got somebody developing the voice and doing it all lowercase because apig can't hit the shift key, right?
(35:06):
So something to think about.
I've got somebody who's doing something in parks and recreation and she's got a dog andthey're doing some fundraiser for.
you know, Halloween thing for the city.
And I said, well, you know, your dog sort of the mascot of parks and recreation.
Why don't you have the pitch letter come from the dog?
And it's all lowercase.
(35:27):
It's like, hey, you know, when my owner was asleep, you know, she's worried about how arewe going to raise enough money for, you know, the Halloween for the kids?
And, you know, I told her, you know, I said, you know, I would handle, you know, I decidedI would take it upon myself.
So it gets chuckle and.
you know, what have you.
There's a lot of really creative things.
(35:49):
Why do you think, you know, when you look at catering sales, because, you know, there'severy chain says they cater, right?
Why do you think some brands invest in, you know, the catering sales team and the outreachand other teams?
It's almost like I don't know if they're scared or they're cheap or
(36:13):
because you know the impact, if you're in the barbecue business and you're even halfwaysuccessful, you know the impact that it has on sales, profit, and then the marketing
effect of feeding all these people your food that you could never do without the catering.
Why do you think some of these other brands are like, I use the word they're halfpregnant, like they don't commit to the pregnancy, they're just, they half acid.
(36:38):
Yep, I'm familiar and my best guest, Michael, is blinders.
you know, either this person is an owner operator who's in the restaurant every day andthat's their focus is keeping everyone happy.
And, you know, if I start going outside of my comfort zone, this is the unknown.
(36:59):
I know if I keep my dining room clean and I keep my drinks full and tables clear, myfood's good.
I know they're going to be happy.
So I think in short,
it's probably the unknown and from a you know more of your C-suite level I think it's nothaving folks that are on the the leadership team that are really bought in to off-premise
(37:19):
and understanding and understanding the impact of it ah and then lastly you know there'sthe conversation about channel segmentation so you know what a lot of brands call catering
ah And what a guest calls catering can be vastly different things.
So understanding where to set those parameters uh for some of the folks that you'rementioning that really don't invest, they may not realize they already have a catering
(37:46):
program ready to be nurtured.
It just needs the right ingredients to help it grow.
Yeah, and it's a shame because you'll spend all this money on equipment and pos andsignage and everything and it's like man just a little bit more invested in catering
you're gonna get Way better returns So i'm looking I rarely read my questions, but I didsee something that you bought a tiny home in the blue ridge mountains So tell me about
(38:15):
that.
How far is that from where you live?
Yeah, so uh my I've worked remote for Red Hot and Blue for a very long time.
I do travel a bit.
You know, I go to the areas where the stores are.
My home is about 30 minutes from my office where I'm at now and I'm in the big city ofMount Airy, North Carolina.
(38:36):
which is everyone knows as Mayberry.
You walk out on the main street outside my office and there's the Barney Fife car and Andyand all that stuff.
My home is actually about 30 minutes from here on the Blue Ridge Plateau and I got...
have two houses?
You have like one in the city and one up in the mountains?
small office that I work from.
mean, I can work from home as well.
(38:57):
Starlink, you you can connect anywhere, but I'm...
you're leaving full time in the mountain.
That's your full time home.
That's cool.
What does that do for you?
I mean, I live at the beach part time.
What does that do to your head space being able to work from a mountain home versus, youknow, living in suburbia or working in a condo or apartment or whatever?
(39:20):
Yeah, to me, think that I have a uh strong connection with nature.
So if I'm sitting in nature and I'm able to look around and it helps calm, a lot of timesit will help to open up the gates for inspiration.
It helps manage and reduce stress levels.
And I really think you, I think that it helps my thought process, you know, be a bit moreconcise, uh a bit more creative.
(39:49):
uh
certainly you know it doesn't it doesn't suck to look out the door and see nature and youknow the Blue Ridge Mountains and be surrounded by it.
You know, I think we all get in this rut, right?
Like I grew up, I was telling someone the other day, you know, we had one vacation a year.
We get in the car and go down to Florida for a week.
And then parents bust their ass for another 51 weeks to get us there.
(40:14):
And even if you, know, Nashville has a state park called Radnor Lake.
It's in the middle of Nashville.
It's got a beautiful lake.
It's an hour loop around the lake.
Even though I have to spend 30 minutes in the car to get there.
It's better than walking an hour in my neighborhood because like, I mean, I could be in, Icould be up in North Carolina.
(40:35):
You can't tell the difference.
I mean, it's not elevation, but it's, it's gorgeous and it's wooded and I've seen baldeagles and deer and stuff.
And I think.
Breaking the monotony of our lives to think a little bit differently look a little bitdifferently You can't put a I don't know how you put it, you know, even if you don't have
a mountain getaway Where can you get away even if it's a weekend a month or hey Saturdaymorning?
(41:01):
I'm gonna go hiking over here and you don't even it doesn't even have to be a difficulthike.
Just go walk around a lake or
damn, some golf courses are worth just walking around just so you're not, you your braincan rewire a little bit different.
I think we get into this myopic life of ours and you just need a little bit of a reset, alittle change of pace.
(41:22):
Exactly.
And that grounding, as I would call it, it helps impart a bit of humility for me that, youknow, hey, I'm really part of something a lot bigger.
ah And it just helps my flow is what I would say, how I think about things, how I managemy day.
Yeah, I can't.
(41:43):
I can't.
You know, I go to the beach, I go to Costa Rica, and it's just very, um I don't know, Ijust feel very blessed that I'm not just 50 weeks out of the year looking at the same four
walls doing the same things.
I think it definitely helps think outside the box.
And it puts you in a better mood, right?
That you can have a little reset, like, you know, even if it's just
(42:07):
Sunday morning, what can you do to get some kind of reset outside of what you normally do?
So that's cool.
That's really cool.
North Carolina's got some gorgeous, gorgeous mountains.
Yeah, it's a beautiful part of the country and I'm still getting the lay of the land.
I'm learning what's growing around me.
ah I found out that this first year that August is the time for golden chanterelles, whichis, oh, the golden chanterelles are delicious.
(42:35):
So we've transitioned from golden chanterelles to autumn olives now, which are sort oflike a little, kind of like a cranberry, they're an invasive.
but jams and jellies.
It's fun.
With my past life being fine dining, there's no shortage of things to keep me entertainedin that realm on my down times.
hey, send me a damn basket of chanterelles.
(42:57):
I'll go to town.
For sure.
That's cool.
Anything else you want to share before we sort of wrap up?
Yeah, you know, I just wanted to just reiterate that...
oh
Early on with Red Hot and Blue, the brand had been around for 30 years at that point.
I think that you have to build the engine to grow sales.
(43:18):
And the engine for growing sales, as you said, sometimes is that investment.
The investment piece for us of getting the technology in place that we needed to organizeourselves from a production standpoint, from a CRM and marketing standpoint, uh really
helped us turn the corner.
I mean, we saw 30 % sales growth year over year.
(43:39):
we're able to really look at and reap the benefits of making those investments.
to those folks that have the blinders on, they're really missing the mark on what'spossible when you're growing catering.
Yeah, and I think what I love about catering, you're not relying on the four walls, right?
If you just have a dining room, you know, they build something in front of your shoppingcenter, you're screwed.
(44:04):
At least with catering, you can get out and go after it, right?
So I love that.
Anyway, George, it was great talking with you and I appreciate your time today.
I hope you have a great rest of your day.
All right, it's been a pleasure.
Thanks for inviting me again.
Thanks.
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