January 8, 2025 • 56 mins
This episode explores the exhilarating concept of "rocking retirement," inspired by Hunter S. Thompson's famous quote. Join us as we dive into the stories of Laura and Nick, two people on the brink of retirement, each with unique paths and values. Discover how they plan to embrace retirement as single individuals, and learn the importance of identifying your personal values to achieve a fulfilling life. Plus, find out how to participate in our upcoming live events and gain insights into crafting your retirement journey.
OUTLINE OF THIS EPISODE OF THE RETIREMENT ANSWER MAN
- (01:14) Agile Retirement Management focuses on helping people go all in on their retirement
MEET LAURA
- (06:35) Introducing Laura
- (11:14) Laura is caring for her mother in addition to working full-time
- (13:07) Her thoughts on living alone from a social standpoint and replacing the social network of coworkers
- (15:07) Laura’s hobbies
- (16:13) Laura says she lives within her means and is very frugal
- (18:18) Laura’s top 10 values
- (20:00) Her experience and perspective on losing friends to cancer at a young age
- (22:46) The importance of making your own decisions, not always doing what society says
MEET NICK
- (29:19) Roger introduces Nick
- (30:26) Why Nick volunteered for retirement plan live
- (33:00) Nick was a budget analyst in the military for 22 years, then transitioned to civil service
- (34:49) Nick is ready to leave government work
- (39:12) What is it about a paycheck that changes Nick’s feelings about work?
- (41:56) Nick’s values exercise
- (44:41) Why is travel a common goal in retirement?
- (47:58) Reading the list of Nick’s values
- (53:00) Values direct our goals
SMART SPRINT
- (55:01) Grab the values worksheet and complete it
BONUS
- (55:13) Roger’s grandfather's log from World War II
Resources:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Roger (00:00):
The show is a proud member of the retirement podcast
network. Life is not a journeyto the grave with the intention
of arriving safely in a wellpreserved body, but rather to
skid in broadside thoroughlyused up, totally worn out, and
loudly proclaiming wow what aride. Hunter s Thompson. Welcome
(00:27):
to the show dedicated to helpingyou not just survive retirement,
but to have the confidencebecause you are doing the work
to really lean in and rock it.Hunter s Thompson, the gentleman
that stated those words, was arebel and an outcast in many
(00:47):
ways.
But that quote encapsulates whatrocking retirement is. To be
able to get to the end of lifeand look back and say, wow, what
a ride. Now there are manythings about Hunter s Thompson,
let's be honest here, that Iwould not want to emulate. But
(01:09):
in rocking retirement, in thepurpose of retirement planning,
I think it gets rockingretirement really well. Now
let's talk a little bit aboutwhat do we mean by wow, what a
ride.
What does that mean? Well, thecool thing here is you get to
decide what that means to you.You get to decide what your ride
(01:29):
is. That could be being a greatgrandparent, being a mentor,
being a volunteer, being acyclist, being a great spouse or
a friend. It could be changingthe world in a bigger way.
It doesn't matter. There's nowrong or right answer here.
There's only an answer that istrue to yourself of what that
(01:52):
ride is. And that's part of thegreat exploration that we all
get to do in this life, andretirement's a great time to be
able to do that. You have sometime freedom.
Once you have identified that orfeel the pull of something and
you go exploring, because you'renot gonna figure this out in an
afternoon, then go all in onyour life. Don't play small ball
(02:22):
as they say. Go all in on yourlife. That's the spirit of agile
retirement management in theprocess. That's the spirit of
the show.
We have a lot of changes comingwith the show that I think are
going to focus on that in ahealthy way and still deal with
the retirement planning, whichis the part that is the vehicle
to give us that confidence to goall in. So we the retirement
(02:43):
planning's critical. Now today,we are starting our live case
studies because we have 2 forthe price of 1 today and this
month, which is we're gonna talkto Laura and Nick, and you're
gonna meet them and hear fromthem over the next 4 weeks as
they tell their story. They'reboth on the precipice of
(03:07):
retirement. They're in theirlate fifties.
They are both single. Both havenever been married. They live on
opposite sides of the countryand have taken different paths
to get to where they are. Andwe're gonna explore how do you
rock retirement as a singleperson. Now you may say, hey,
(03:28):
Roger.
I don't know if I don't listento this. I'm not single. I've
been married 35 years. That'strue. But you know what?
I will place a bet right nowthat one of you, just like me or
Shauna, is going to be single inretirement. God willing, it's
not way until the end of it, butit could be sooner than you
(03:52):
think. And one thing that Lauraand Nick have going for
themselves that you and I, ifyou've been married a long time,
don't have is the skills of howto be alone and not be lonely
and to manage in thatenvironment. So I think this
applies to everybody. These areuniversal things.
So today, we're going to talk toLaura and Nick and hear about
(04:15):
who they are, what is theirstory, and what are their top
ten values. As part of that,we're gonna share a worksheet in
our 6 shot Saturday email, whichyou can sign up for at
so you can revisit or establishyour top ten values. So we'll
(04:37):
share that in our 6 shotSaturday email. And then next
week, we'll talk about theirgoals and then their resources
and then their views of aging asan independent person. Related
to all this stuff, and thenwe'll get on with the show, is
we are gonna have a live eventon January 30th with Laura where
(04:57):
we're going to go through whather vision is.
We're gonna look at whether it'sfeasible and ways to start
making it resilient in a liveresults show with Laura like
we've done in the past. Sothat's a Thursday, January 30th
at 7 PM CST. And then on Monday,we're gonna do the same thing
(05:17):
with Nick on February 3rd. So ifyou want to attend those live
and be able to ask questions andshare your perspective, go to
live with roger.com andregister. In addition to that,
one last thing, and then we'llget moving and meet Laura.
I'm excited. Is on the 30thJanuary, we are opening up
(05:41):
enrollment to the RockRetirement Club, our online
community that gives youeverything you need to build
your plan of record to haveclarity on what is possible and
start to take action on that. Soit's your platform to be able to
do that and have adultconversations about Monday. So
on February 1st, we're gonnahave an open house dedicated
(06:01):
specifically to that and seethat way, you can see whether
it's a fit for you, and you cansign up for that at live with
roger.com. Alright.
Got that out of the way. Nowlet's have our first
conversation and meet Laura.Laura, nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Good to meet you, Roger.
Roger (06:25):
We really just met the first time a minute ago.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yes. We did.
Roger (06:31):
So let's start with Laura's story. So how old are
you?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I am currently 59.
Roger (06:40):
You're 59. Okay. And are you working still?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I am still working, hoping to not be working
sometime soon.
Roger (06:48):
Okay. So what industry are you in?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
I am in transportation and distribution.
Roger (06:54):
Okay. Logistics. Transportation.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Logistics. Yes.
Roger (06:59):
And you mentioned that you hope to not be working soon.
What's your target retirementdate if you're 59 now?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I would say it'd be a great sixtieth birthday present
to myself. So sometime withinthe next 12 months.
Roger (07:14):
Okay. So we're gonna shoot for that as ideal. We're
gonna get to the goals, nextweek. So have you've always been
in transportation?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Pretty much. Yes, actually. K. Yeah. A little bit
little variations here andthere, but but, but always in
management really intransportation Okay.
And distribution. Yes.
Roger (07:33):
And you are not married?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
I'm not married.
Roger (07:36):
Have you ever been married?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I have never been married.
Roger (07:39):
Okay. No children?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
No children other than my 4 legged dogs.
Roger (07:44):
What what are your dogs' names?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I have, Josie and Miley.
Roger (07:48):
Now what kind of dogs are they?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
They're both from the pound. One's a pit bull mix, and
one's a little dachshund terriermix.
Roger (07:55):
Okay. K. And they like each other pretty well?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Oh, they love each other. They're sleeping together
right now.
Roger (08:02):
I just really feel I'm looking at Sherlock over there
sleeping on the couch. And Ialways thought it's like when he
was a pup, we had 2 other dogsbecause he was a transition dog.
So I am I wonder if he's lonelynow that, you know, it's just
him.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Probably loves all the attention.
Roger (08:15):
Probably. He definitely does. And so give me, like, the
5 minute Laura story. Tell metell me about this is your life.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
This is my life. Just you know, I thought I was doing
the right thing. Went to school,got a bachelor's, and then I was
going to go into the sociology,kind of route and realized that
I didn't pay much. So I wentback to school, got my master's,
stuck with the distribution, andstayed with the company for 15
(08:46):
years that I got through collegewith. And then I decided that it
was going to eat me alive, or Iwas going to die of a heart
attack if I stayed there andstarted making some moves and
then moved to another company.
Roger (09:00):
What was the pressure that made you say, oh, this is
gonna is it just the the pace ofwork? Or
Speaker 2 (09:06):
The pace of work is is extremely demanding, you
know, kind of job that, it's adelivery, package delivery. So
Christmases are nonexistent.They would say full time is all
the time, part time is fulltime, full time is all the time.
So it was a very demanding job,and I just couldn't see you in
(09:26):
another 15 years.
Roger (09:28):
Now how did you feel brave enough to pivot?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
There was someone that had worked there, and she
had gone to another company. Andthey had a 4 day work week, so I
thought, wow. That sounds great.And, so I took the I took the
leap.
Roger (09:41):
And and that's where you've been since?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
No. Actually, I I was there for 4 years, but the
commute was was kind of long.And I live in California, and
and traffic in California is,unique. So the commute was long,
unpredictable, and then I endedup going to another company also
in distribution warehousing,distribution, and stayed there
(10:06):
11 years. And then went fromthere, I decided I wanna go to a
small company.
And I figured that was gonna bemy last stop. So I wanted to do
something a little smaller,family owned, just really
friendly place, great place towork, and that's where I've been
ever since. So I've been there 8years now.
Roger (10:26):
And what is your motivation to want to, quote,
unquote, retire?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Motivation is really because I want to have my own
time. It it's a little difficultright now because I work full
time. I do I live in California,still commute, still have a
little bit of, traffic, so thedays are long. And then I'm also
spending quite a bit of timetaking care of my mother who is
87, and that doesn't leave a lotof time for me. So I'm thinking,
(10:57):
okay.
I think I've done everythingright. I've put into my 401 k my
whole life. You know? Maybe it'sgonna pay off. So that's more of
my motivation.
It isn't so much that I don'twanna work. In fact, I look at
other jobs and think, wow. Thiswould be cool to work there. But
it's more of wanting some moretime. Do you
Roger (11:15):
think that the time of dealing with your mother puts
extra pressure on not havinghaving enough time for yourself?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. For a while there, I
was spending 3 or 4 days a weekwith her. So I was neglecting my
own life and my own home, andthat's a little tough.
Roger (11:37):
Yeah. Yes. Now do you have family local?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I do. I do. And and, we've gotten into a better
system now, so they arecontributing a little more. And,
we're we're we're doing a lotbetter. So now I'm down to 2
days, which is much better andgetting things done.
My dogs are happy with thatbecause I can walk them every
day. And, but it's still youknow, you get to the point where
(12:03):
you wonder, you know, at whatpoint do is this time gonna be
just mine? And have I doneenough to make it just my time
so I can get up, go for a hike,go biking, do do whatever I want
when I want? Yeah. I'd be morerelaxed when I'm spending time
doing other things.
Roger (12:20):
They always say a happy dog is a tired dog.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Right? Yes.
Roger (12:25):
Lot less destructive too. So I wanna ask you a question.
This is actually just personalcuriosity. So I'm 57. You're 59.
Got married right out ofcollege. Wasn't planning on it.
It just sort of happened. Otherthan a brief time before I got
married, I have never livedalone.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Wow.
Roger (12:47):
And I don't know whether you've always lived alone and
the journey in a personal end ofit. But from a social
standpoint, what is it likeliving alone? I guess my
question because I've never doneit.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Interesting. That's an interesting question. I
haven't always lived alone. Youknow, college, you have
roommates and, you know, thisand that. But, personally, I
love it.
You know, I can do what I wantwhen I want. I don't have to
check-in with anyone or, youknow, go to bed if I want to
early or late or, you know, stayup all night. I have a a gym at
(13:20):
my house, so I can work out whenI want. And, personally, I love
it. But I do have to consciouslymake efforts to be social.
And, recently, I've found, like,meet up groups, hiking groups,
and that's been really great.
Roger (13:35):
Yeah. I was gonna say, have you have you thought about
do you have all of this freetime? Obviously, it'll give you
some time with your mother, butyou have a lot of social network
within work even if you'removing really fast. What is it
like when you don't have thatbuilt in socialization for lack
(13:57):
of a better term?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
I have thought about it. I've spoken to, you know, a
few people who've retiredrecently. And and I think you
have to make a conscious effortto to work on that. I do wanna
do volunteer work. I loveanimals, and I'm planning to
volunteer at, you know, theshelters, whether it's just
walking dogs or or what haveyou.
But I do realize you have tomake a conscious effort to be
(14:21):
social. I'm a bit introverted,so I'm okay with not being as
social as some other people me.And, at work, even though there
are people there and you areyou're having conversations,
it's not an environment we'rehaving long winded conversations
and sharing all kinds of storiesor anything.
Roger (14:40):
Yeah. You're problem solving. You're managing the
system. Right? You mentioned afew hobbies.
You said hiking. What are someof the things that you that
bring you joy, hobby wise?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Hiking, you know, just finding a new trail and
getting out there with the dogsif possible. The little one
can't really make those trails,so sometimes she, you know,
needs to stay behind. I love toroad bike. However, I haven't
been as much because I don'thave the time. I do have a
Peloton, and I'm on that everyday.
Roger (15:13):
So Don't say that with with, like, disgust. It's like
roads road cyclists shouldn'thave Peloton. I have a Peloton.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Well, I said that because I'm like, oh, should I
say Peloton or not?
Roger (15:22):
Yeah. Sure. I have
Speaker 2 (15:23):
I think it's an awesome piece of equipment.
Helped me tremendously throughCOVID. It was just a godsend.
And with limited time, I can geton there and crank out, you
know, 30 minute ride. I don'thave to get to a trail, you
know, get the bike out of thecar and, you know
Roger (15:40):
Logistically, it makes it hard. And you end up not being
outside as much, but it makes itso much easier. Right?
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Right. But I could see 3 days a week getting on the
trail for 3 hours.
Roger (15:52):
On a road trail you're referring to, like
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah. On the road trail. Yes. Yes. Not on not on
the Peloton, but on the yeah.
Roger (15:57):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Right down to the beach and back. Yeah.
Roger (16:01):
I have the Peloton row too, which I use much more than
the bike. It's Oh, really?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Okay. Great. I heard it's nice, but it's a yeah.
Yeah.
Roger (16:12):
It's full body. What else should I know about Laura as
we're thinking about building aplan of record so you can maybe
hit the sixtieth birthdaytarget? What else should I know
about you?
Speaker 2 (16:26):
That's a good question. I mentioned I'm a
little introverted. I don't needto do huge travel. I have, you
know, friends that have retiredand they're doing these, you
know, $20,000 trips and stufflike that. That's just not me.
I loved your podcast. I think itwas 2 weeks ago about, like,
blocking out the noise because Ithink that's one of the first
things people say. Oh, you'regonna travel? Are you gonna
(16:48):
retire? You wanna travel?
And I've traveled. And I'm notsaying I don't want to, but it's
not it's not everything for me.So I am pretty thrifty or
frugal.
Roger (17:01):
Yeah. Well, there there are positive spins and negative
spins depending on which wordyou use.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yes.
Roger (17:07):
Give me an example of Laura being frugal.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
You know, I honestly, I have I buy everything I want
when I want it, but I guess I mymy desires aren't as big as
others so that I've always livedwithin my means. I have zero
debt. My house is now paid off.Car's paid off. I have 2 wave
(17:32):
runners.
They're paid off. I I just livewithin my means, but I guess
some people might think that'sfrugal because you're making
decisions based on what youhave. For me, that's just my way
of living.
Roger (17:47):
Well, you know, Peloton, those are not inexpensive. True.
I bet if I asked what type ofbicycle you have, it would not
be inexpensive.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Correct.
Roger (17:57):
Right? So I'm thinking more Michael Easter. You have
gear, quality gear that allowsyou to do things that you enjoy.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Right. And I don't have to go out and buy the the
latest and greatest, although Ido you know, I have my
specialized bike and, you know,my Peloton and and anything that
that brings me joy, I guess, youcould say.
Roger (18:17):
Yeah. Yeah. So I asked you to do an exercise to
establish your top ten values,and I wanna go over that. But
before I do, I wanna ask you,why do you think that is the
first thing I asked you to do?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Well, I would say it is really it makes you think. It
makes you really think aboutwhat's important in life and
what's important to you. So Iwould think that it, it sets
that foundation of where you areand where you wanna be and
continue to be. And by reallythinking about these things, you
I think you get a better pictureof who you are to yourself. And
(18:58):
then if you're reading it, youget a better picture of who I am
and what's important to me.
Roger (19:03):
Okay. Then I'll so let's go over a few things. What
experiences brought you the mostjoy? Put down hiking with your
dogs. Mhmm.
Stand up paddle boarding, roadbiking. Definitely sounds like
the California lifestyle. Beingoutside in nature, so you like
to be outside?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Absolutely. Yes.
Roger (19:21):
What is it about outside?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
You know, it's just it's beautiful. It's the sky,
the wind, the it's the sun. Youknow, it's it's just freeing.
Roger (19:33):
Okay. Like, being by water is sort of that way too.
Right?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Mhmm. Exactly.
Roger (19:37):
Outside is my word for next year.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Oh, nice. Okay.
Roger (19:42):
Specifically in Colorado.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Alright.
Roger (19:45):
Outside in Colorado. And then the second question, we'll
have a link to this worksheet inour 6 shot Saturday email. So if
you're hanging out listeningwith us, you can grab that
worksheet and revisit orestablish your top ten values.
The next question we ask is whatmakes you angry or frustrated?
And I can't imagine this firstone that you said, which is
traffic.
(20:05):
I don't understand.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I know. It's, far fetched on that one, I think.
No. No. Yeah.
Traffic and just wasting timeand just sitting there and
killing the planet at the sametime because you're just sitting
in traffic. Yeah.
Roger (20:21):
Yeah. Now you put cancer, lives cut short. Have you had
some experience with that,either yourself or people you
love?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah. I've had, 3 very good friends that all have
passed in their fifties. And, Imean, my best friend from for 30
something years, passed fromcancer. My father also passed at
72 from cancer. So, yeah, it's,I think it really makes you
think twice about, okay.
(20:50):
Do I wanna keep working? Do Iwant to do something else maybe,
you know, that adds value alittle bit more than what I'm
currently doing? I'm sure I addvalue to someone somewhere, but
but it's not as deep. And, yeah,cancer and losing people
definitely makes you reevaluatelife.
Roger (21:09):
It's one thing when you lose people when they're older.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Mhmm.
Roger (21:14):
I mean, it's still impactful, but when you lose
cohort, people that are yoursame age or younger.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yes.
Roger (21:23):
That you were friends with that have shared their
aspirations and their dreams forlater and seeing that not
materialize for them. Definitelybrings it home, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Absolutely. Absolutely. It really makes you
think I mean, life can be cutshort at any time. So
Roger (21:43):
Makes you think, what the hell am I doing?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Exactly. Right? Yep. Get a move on because if you're
just gonna keep working anddoing the right thing, then I
mean, what I've always been toldwas the right thing, which is
get up, go to work, you know, beproductive, pay your bills.
Roger (22:00):
You you were able to delay this chat we had today
because I was helping my sonmove. He was moving from near us
to Plano, which is about 45minutes away and move moving in
with his girlfriend, Mel, who Iadore. She's awesome. And we
were sitting around after weremoved whatever in. It's just
some final pieces.
And I'm sitting on the couch andtalking to Mel, and she's
(22:20):
talking about her career andwhat she wants to do. And she's
not quite sure because she's insoftware, development and did it
right out of college. It's theonly thing she's ever known
trying to figure out what shewants her life to be. And I was
trying to explain to her. It'slike, go try living some place
else.
Where would I go? I was like, Idon't know. Just make it up. You
can the most decisions are 2 a 2a's, and I was trying to help
(22:43):
her think outside of this iswhat everybody says I'm supposed
to do or this is what everybodyelse is doing. Right?
Yes. And I I I said to her, Mel,nobody knows how to do any of
this. We're just making it up aswe go along. You don't have to
listen to anybody. That's hardthough.
Right? Even if you know it.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yes. It really is actually. It's really hard if
you're, you know, thinking youneed to be responsible, you need
to do what society tells youyou're supposed to do, then,
yeah, it can be really hard totake a leap of faith.
Roger (23:15):
Yeah. And just trust yourself. Different.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Roger (23:19):
Well, let's talk about your top ten values briefly.
Okay? So number 1 and we didthis as a highest to lowest. I
actually don't know if you needto prioritize them. Number 1 is
integrity.
That's a good one to have.That's like a okay. Yeah. Never
that. Why did you pick that one?
That's a good one to have.Right? Integrity. You put
family, quote, unquote,including dogs. Will you always
(23:42):
have dogs?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I think so.
Roger (23:44):
Think so?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I yeah. I mean, I my mom is 87. She has a dog, and I
was watching her on the videothe other night. And she went to
go to bed, and she got out ofbed, and she gave the dog a kiss
at the end of the bed. You know,dog was at the end of the bed.
And it was just the cutestthing, but it's it's they bring
you joy. Yeah. So why not?
Roger (24:07):
Friendship. Even though you're introvert, you want
friendship.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Roger (24:12):
Fun. I think fun is just sort of a way of life.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yes.
Roger (24:17):
I was asked the other day by Tanya, I think it was. She
says I always have a lightnessto me. And I'm like, well,
that's by design. I never wasalways that way. It took me
about 10 years to practicelateness.
And I I tell I've worked onhaving a a smirky smile all the
time so I don't have thatresting jerk face. And when I
(24:41):
talk, I try to have a littlelaugh inside, and it actually
has made a huge difference.Personal development, travel.
Travel to you is like, it's nottraveling the world, it sounds
like. What's travel to you?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I actually wanna see all the US. You know? All the
parks, all the you know? Thatkind of travel. And and
traveling the world is good too.
I've been to a few placesalready, and and it's not a
necessity. If it doesn't happen,I won't die. There are places I
still wanna go see, though. I dowanna go to Italy and Greece,
but it's not a must do. But Ithink it'll happen.
Roger (25:19):
Well, let me ask this. When it comes to travel, because
this is one of those genericretirement goals. Right? And
we'll get to goals Yes. In alittle bit.
Why do you think that is? Is itbecause everybody else says
travel, or what is the drive fortravel?
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Not because everyone else. It it would actually be to
go and and just kind of live inthe culture to try to just see
how you know, just to observehow other people live and, you
know, you hear so much about howthe US is so fast paced and then
other countries are a littleslower. And just to sit in a
(25:56):
cafe and, you know, have a adrink and watch, you know, watch
just watch things. I just, youknow I read a lot of books or or
listen, audiobooks, and, there'sjust a lot more out there.
Roger (26:11):
But you wanna witness?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
To speak to witness. Yes. Yeah.
Roger (26:16):
Then you have giving back and volunteering. You talked
about that. And then learning.You're not learning, you're
dying for sure. Mhmm.
I like this exercise at thebeginning, Laura, because when
we talk about goals, which iswhat we're gonna do next time,
you know, we'll use a dogmetaphor. It's easy to let the
tail wag the dog. And the tailbeing the money and taxes and
(26:42):
all these planning things thatwe have to think about. It's
easy to let those things wag thedog and fit our life into these
other things when logically yourvalue should be what drives
everything. Right?
Your goals are derivatives ofyou living out your values, and
it's a filtering mechanism tosee if you're congruent or not
(27:04):
so you don't get too far overyour skis when we get to
optimization and all the crazystuff. So I
Speaker 2 (27:11):
think that's why I had integrity first. So it's
staying true to myself andwhat's important to me.
Roger (27:18):
How do you okay. That's a so that's a different kind of
integrity than I interpreted.Yes. Being honest. So staying
integrity in terms of livingbeing brave enough to be
yourself.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yes. Right? Absolutely.
Roger (27:31):
How do you grade yourself? How do you check
yourself in that sense? Do youhave a practice or a ritual to
say, is this really who I am?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
I do not, but that's a good question. Like, you know,
how do you come up with apractice or ritual to to make
sure? But I don't get suckedinto, you know, the noise as you
guys talked about on yourprevious podcast. You know, I
try not to. It just doesn'tdrive me, you know, to try to
(28:03):
keep up with the Joneses, Iguess.
I'm just not that kind ofperson. So
Roger (28:07):
Okay. One book recommendation that was related
to this that I'm working on. Ireread about once a year. It's
called Essentialism by, what'shis name? McGregor?
What? Oh, it's calledessentialism. We'll have a link
in 6 shots Saturday. I forgetthe gentleman's name, but he's
English. Because I I strugglewith this too, right?
Because there's so many thingsyou want to do and how do you
(28:29):
know what are the most importantthings? And he had a framework
in there of trade offs. And it'slike any opportunity, whether
it's a piece of clothing or togo do a volunteer opportunity or
whatever it is, you have asystem from 0 to 10 and you rate
the opportunity with it from 0to 10. And if it's a 9 or a 10,
(28:52):
it's a hell yes. And if it's an8 or below, you move it to a 0.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Wow.
Roger (28:58):
To try to stay focused on only truly the most important
things to you. That's a hardthing to do because we always
wanna please everybody.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Right.
Roger (29:07):
Well, thank you for introducing yourself. Next week,
we're gonna talk about yourgoals.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Okay. Sounds great.
Roger (29:19):
So now we have the he said in the she said, he said
portion of retirement plan livebecause we have a a lady that's
doing this as well, which is aninteresting thing. And so I
wanna introduce you to Nick. Howare you doing, Nick?
Speaker 3 (29:31):
I'm doing good, Roger. How are you?
Roger (29:33):
Good. Good. Oh, you sound serious now that we're talking
on there. We were just talkingbeforehand and joking around. My
objective today, Nick, is tojust hear the story of Nick and
talk about your values.
But as you begin this retirementplan live, I'd be interested in
(29:55):
hearing why you raised your handand what it is you want out of
it.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Okay. So the reason why I raised my hand was because
I feel like I'm reaching thepoint where I I want to retire
and do something else with mytime rather than just earn a
paycheck. And it just happenedthat you were looking for a
single contestants as
Roger (30:19):
Contestants. There's no prizes here. Maybe you retire.
There's no prizes. No cur nocurtains.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Right. Right. But I just I I realized that it was an
opportunity maybe to take a lookat where I stand in in terms of
being prepared to retire. AndI've always thought that the
previous retirement plan liveepisodes, I've always learned a
tremendous amount from them andthe willingness that people have
(30:46):
been to share. And I just wantedthe opportunity maybe to help a
a single person navigate thistransition.
Roger (30:54):
And you are single?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
I am single. Never been married and known children.
Life just took me down a pathwhere it just never was the
right place at the right time.It wasn't that it that I that
either of those things weren't,desired. It just never happened
for me, and and that's okay too.
We all have a different path.
Roger (31:14):
And there's still a lot of life left. So it's not so
you're still open to whatevermakes sense, but it just never
happened.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Exactly. And and I am blessed with, 10 nieces and
nephews who really provide mewith a lot of parenting like
opportunities with the with theability to send them home when
I'm finished.
Roger (31:37):
Yeah. It's like being a grandparent where you get to
just send them off. So how oldare you, Nick?
Speaker 3 (31:43):
I'm 57 just this month.
Roger (31:45):
Alright. Alright. So we're about the same age for a
month or so. So you're 57. Youlive on the East Coast.
We'll just say you work ingovernment.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
I do work in government.
Roger (31:56):
Tell me a little bit about your life. So if this was,
this is your life in 3 or 4 or 5minutes, give me your story.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
So I was born and raised in the upper Midwest when
I graduated from high school. Ielected to join the the a
military service and the reservecomponent. While I was going to
college part time, I was alsoworking a job full time. At a
certain point, I just becamefrustrated with the working all
(32:26):
the time to go to school parttime, and I really didn't feel
like I had a destination incollege at the time. The
opportunity was presented to goon active duty in my military
service, and I went, well,there's the GI bill.
Maybe I could go do that for 4years and come back with the GI
bill and go back to college.Suffice it to say 22 years
(32:49):
later, I retired from thatmilitary service. I was a budget
analyst for my career in themilitary, mainly working with
military budgets. At the end ofmy time in the military, I
landed on the East Coast and hada really great opportunity to
transition into the civilservice of the federal
(33:09):
government doing basically theexact same thing, budget
analyst.
Roger (33:13):
Does it still work where if you do that, your service
years just roll over? It used tobe that way.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
So so it really depends, Roger, on what grade
and how many years of serviceyou had in the military and what
grade you have in the civilservice. For some people, it
makes total sense to buy yourtime. For other people, it makes
sense for them to maintain theirmilitary retirement separate
from a civil service retirement.So for me, it made more sense
(33:43):
for me to buy my time.
Roger (33:45):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
So my military retirement check will go away
when I retire, but it will bereplaced by a larger civil
service retirement check.
Roger (33:54):
Sorry to derail you there, but it just came to mind.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
No. No. That's okay. And so I I transitioned out of
the military in 2010, and I'vebeen working as a civil servant
since 2011. I have to admitafter 35 years of of dealing
with the federal budget process,I've grown
Roger (34:15):
a little weary. I hate to
Speaker 3 (34:16):
put it like that, but I've grown a little weary. It
doesn't spark as much joy for meas it used to. And and a lot of
that is, of course, tied to thepolitics in our in our federal
government. Right, wrong, orindifferent, it is what it is. I
would just like to disengagefrom the federal budget process
as an employee and just watch itas a civilian like the rest of
(34:39):
America generally does.
And I guess that's me in anutshell.
Roger (34:43):
Yeah. And just so you know that I've performed in this
rodeo for years, and I'm tiredof this rodeo is very normal
even in the private sector.Right? You should Right. You've
mastered what you've been ableto master.
You recognize the constraints ofthe structure, and there's
(35:05):
nothing else to learn for youpersonally.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Exactly. That's kinda how I feel. I I feel like I've
I've I've gotten as far as I cango on this path, and I'm open to
exploring the next path.
Roger (35:18):
And then at parties, rather than be the recipient of
everything that's wrong withwhat you do, you can be the
person on the sidelines, youknow, talking about how it's all
messed up.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Exactly. I often am the person who hears about how
is it they can't do their jobs,and I'm like, well, it's really
not me who made that decision,but it will it will be nice to
be on the outside of thatlooking at it. I have to admit.
I grown tired of being on theinside looking out.
Roger (35:46):
And so that is part of what you've recognized of, okay,
this season in my life shouldend. It's it's in the autumn or
the fall. And I think that'sgood to recognize. Do you
struggle with that? Like, if youthink of a change of seasons, it
sorta gets a hot day and a coldday.
Do you go back and forth, or isit pretty much, no. This is the
(36:06):
direction I need to go?
Speaker 3 (36:08):
It's mainly I feel like this is the direction I
need to head in. Yeah. I mean,every once in a while, there'll
be a a little glimmer of lightthat things are looking normal
again, and then it quickly getssnuffed out. And then I kinda
like, oh, it's just gonna beexactly like it was the last
time and the time before. And soI I am mainly ready to be
(36:31):
finished and and moving on a newpath.
Roger (36:34):
I wanna ask a question. I had lunch with a friend slash
client that I've known foryears, and I learned something
very interesting about him. Heconnected some dots when he was
young. For him, it was he wasvery athletically motivated, and
he was really slow. And then hewent on this little program in
(36:58):
the summer for himself justinternally of working to get
faster and in the and then whenhe came out for what I think was
soccer, he suddenly was a lotfaster, and he connected the
dots between something that hehad some control over to a
result, and that has been athread that has guided his life
(37:19):
a little bit with thoseconnecting of dots.
And it doesn't have to berelated to that, but I'm just
curious when you look back whenyou were younger, are are there
any moments in your life orexperiences that connected some
dots that have been a threat inyour life?
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Well, there has been. I was I as I said, you know, I I
was struggling to figure outwhat I was gonna do in college.
And and when I went in the army,I discovered my love for
numbers, as a budget analyst andunderstanding how the federal
government gets from a to b to cto d. I always I always enjoyed
(37:59):
how we process our information,how we get to where we're going.
And I found that in my own life,I'm very process oriented, if
that makes sense.
Roger (38:08):
Mhmm.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
I think that comes with working with numbers. I'd
like to know that what the nextstep in my process is. And so
I've always been processoriented. The part that I enjoy
the best is the result, notnecessarily the work, but
getting the the final result, ifthat makes any sense.
Roger (38:24):
It sure does. Like, you suffer in training to get the
result. Right. How is that isthat love let me ask it this
way. Is that love going torepresent itself when you are
not working?
That love of numbers andprocess?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
I believe the process part of it definitely will. I
I'm very interested in no longerworking for a paycheck if that's
a possibility. I would ratherdonate myself and my time to
causes that I care about. Andand, of course, once again,
there's gonna be processes andprocedures that are entailed in
(39:00):
a volunteering opportunity, andI'm hoping to transition to that
kind of process and procedure asopposed to a directed, you know,
kind of mandated calendar.
Roger (39:13):
What is it about a paycheck that changes things?
Speaker 3 (39:19):
That's a good question. Of course, we always
associate our our our value assomehow we we've come to value
associate our value as a personas to the paycheck that we get.
And I've reached the point wherewhere I'm hoping that I no
longer have to value my time indollars and cents, but rather in
(39:43):
good work for free. I hopethat's answering the question.
Roger (39:47):
There's no wrong answer. My daughter I asked my daughter
this because she does art. Shedoes embroidery and just she's
like an a grandmother craftslady, but 27. And I asked her
about this because she'll havefriends that will ask her to do
an embroidery or something, andI think she had a good answer.
There's no wrong answer, but Iliked her answer.
And they wanna pay her for it.And she never wants to receive
(40:09):
money for it. And I asked herwhy because I could have a
little you know, I'm theentrepreneur. You could have a
little side hustle here. And shesays, 1, I love doing it.
2, I love that they love it. And3, if they paid me, now I'd have
a deadline. I would have more ofan obligation to them. Well, I
(40:33):
would I didn't like the the waythis was done, and I paid you
money for it so you can even fixit. So it sort of put all of
that pressure on something thatactually just brings your joy.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
That sounds about where I feel like I'm headed.
You know? I've I've the the thepaycheck comes with deadlines
and requirements, whereasvolunteering comes with, first
of all, the time freedom to say,okay. I'm gonna take a week off,
which is harder when you'reemployed. And it also gives you
the ability to pick and choosethe things that you want to
(41:07):
spend your time on rather thanthere's several processes in my
current job that literally theprocess makes me miserable.
Roger (41:15):
Okay. That makes sense too. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
That makes sense too. And I and I don't wanna be in
that feedback loop anymore of ofdreading the the the processes
that I don't enjoy anymore.
Roger (41:28):
That that makes sense. So let's go to your values. Have
you ever done an exercise likethat before?
Speaker 3 (41:36):
I've done something similar with the, like, the
leadership personality teststhat you see out there.
Roger (41:43):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
It it seems to me I did one as I was progressing
through the military ranks atsome point. And then there was a
civil service government coursethat I took on emerging leaders
that also had kind of apersonality.
Roger (41:59):
They love to assess people. I mean, corporations.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Yeah. So I've done something similar, not exactly
like what you provided.
Roger (42:07):
Okay. So the first question and we have this
worksheet will be available in 6shot Saturday. So if you're
signed up for that, you can geta link to download the PDF. If
not, you can go torogerwitty.com and sign up for
that. First question was, whatexperiences bring you the most
joy?
We don't have to go through thisin detail, but I wanna go to a
(42:27):
sentence where you said travelis a hunger that I need to feed.
Good sentence. Why?
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Yeah. One of the things I've enjoyed about my
military service and probablywas a big part of the reason why
I stayed with it beyond aninitial 4 years to get a GI bill
and then kind of the currentposition I'm serving in as a
civil servant is they offeredgreat travel opportunities as
(42:55):
part of the job. And I foundvery quickly my my first
assignment overseas was in SouthKorea, and I just found myself
absolutely fascinated with theculture and the sights and the
sounds. And it's probably, likeI said, what kept me in the
(43:16):
military for 22 years. I had anopportunity to live overseas on
4 different occasions.
My current job provides me theopportunity to travel to the
region that I manage for mycurrent job, and and I enjoyed
that. And I can't see myselfsettling down and not traveling
(43:39):
anymore in retirement. It wouldbe important that I could take a
couple trips a year to go seethe sights and sounds. I I've
seen somewhere over 35countries. Some of them not
enough that I wouldn't have togo back and see some more of
them, but there's an additional150 some countries out there in
the world.
Not necessarily do I wanna seeall of them, but there's there's
(44:02):
a lot of them I'm interested ingoing and tasting the flavor of
their culture and the way theylive. I've just really enjoyed
that part of travel.
Roger (44:11):
I've been I've been starting unintentionally an
informal survey around why istravel always one of the top
goals in retirement? Because itjust it's almost stereotypical.
You're retired, you go travel.And you mentioned the sights and
the sounds, but what is thedriver of wanting to taste these
(44:36):
sight and sounds and seedifferent places for you?
Speaker 3 (44:40):
I I think it's just I'm not one of those people who
goes someplace and does the hopon hop off and, you know, I'll
get on it when I first get therefor one trip around and get the
lay of the land, kind of figureout what's north and south and
east and west. And then I wannabe on my own on on my you know,
moving around on my feet,walking through the
(45:01):
neighborhoods. I appreciate thefact that humanity across the
world lives in such a variety ofways, has such diverse beliefs
and understandings, and I wantto continue to experience that.
Roger (45:20):
What does that do for you though?
Speaker 3 (45:22):
Oh, planning a trip and and taking the trip and then
talking about the trip withfriends and family when I come
back. It just gives me a lot ofjoy. I it's almost like I said,
it's a hunger. I I want to doit. I I I want to experience
other things.
(45:42):
I mean, not that there'sanything wrong with where I live
right now, but I understand inmy mind that it's just such a
small part of the whole world.And if you're a good tourist,
the people you meet in theirplaces are gonna have an have an
impression of leave a mark onthem, they leave a mark on you.
(46:08):
And and hopefully, if you go andyou and and you and you behave
properly and you enjoy yourselfand you interact with the
locals, they're gonna say, well,those people from where you come
from, they're special too. Andmaybe I wanna go there someday.
I think I think it it just theinteraction with people So it's
(46:29):
not just the travel.
It's the interaction with thepeople and the places that that
really inspire me.
Roger (46:34):
I love that idea about the interactions and and how
people start to view each other.That I totally get, and I've had
some experience of that just inthe US having I live in Texas.
And to some people there, that'slike, oh. Right? And then but I
had I went to San Francisco.
(46:55):
And in Texas, some people go,oh. And I had I recall a few
years ago having dinner with acouple in downtown San
Francisco, and they were like,Texas, oh. And I was like, San
Francisco, oh. And as we toldthe stories of our children and
everything, it was like, wow.It's pretty much the same.
(47:17):
It rhyme. It so the thestereotypical battle lines got
deconstructed a bit from what wehear. So I see that in what
you're talking about. That'sinteresting. Let's go to your
values.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
Okay.
Roger (47:33):
Now, yeah, on the worksheet, we don't have to go
through each one of these indetail, but I just wanna, you
know, just survey them. I I itit says to high top ten values
highest to lowest, and I don'tknow if you did a hierarchy of
these or not. I have them infront of me if you want me to
share them with you.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
Yep. I have I have them too, Roger.
Roger (47:53):
Alright. Number 1 was security. So what does that
mean?
Speaker 3 (47:57):
Security to me means that I'm gonna be okay. And in a
lot of ways, that's meansfinancially. When when I when I
purchased my my home and mycommunity, one of the things
that was important to me wasn'thow much the bank told me I
could have to buy a place. Itwas, okay. My military
(48:20):
retirement check is this much.
If everything in the world fellapart and I didn't have a job, I
would at least have my home.
Roger (48:31):
Right.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
I would be able to pay for my home, and I could go
flip burgers at the local fastfood restaurant if I if I needed
to feed myself.
Roger (48:40):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
So when I talk about security, that's what I mean for
security. Understanding that I'mI'm gonna probably be
financially okay is important.
Roger (48:51):
Okay. Number 2 is relationships, and you talked
about this a lot with all thenieces and nephews. This is
obviously a big value for you.Time freedom, I think we hit in
some of your comments related tovolunteering and budget and
travel. Number 4 is the firsttime I've ever seen this one,
which is patriotism
Speaker 3 (49:09):
well, I you know, I I joined the army the army reserve
out of high school because I Ibelieve that Service to country
is important. It wasn't at theat the time, you know, I could
have just got active for me atthe you know out of the gate But
at that point, I was kind ofthinking my trajectory was
(49:30):
college and, Private sector, youknow a non uniform job, I guess,
is what I would say, anonmilitary uniform job. I ended
up serving a total of 25 yearsin the between the Army Reserve
and the Army when I was gettingready to retire. It wasn't that
I didn't have options outside ofthe government. It was that I I
(49:55):
really believe that service toyour country is important and
service to your the citizens ofyour country is important And so
I I chose to continue my path asa civil servant in the federal
government Okay, makes me makesme a little crazy when I hear
the national anthem and peopledon't stand up and people don't
(50:17):
take their hats off and people,you know I'm not sure that
patriotism runs as deeply inAmerica anymore as it used to,
and I think that's unfortunate.
Roger (50:28):
And I see the way that you describe patriotism, it
seems to rhyme with number 6,which is your what just
community. You know, servingyour country, serving your
community, you know, andpatriotism for you took the form
of military and for others, it'sserving the community. Right?
There's different ways to serveyour country. But,
Speaker 3 (50:51):
exactly.
Roger (50:52):
Okay. Now the 5th one is an odd word that we don't hear
much as we used to, altruism. Sodefine that for you.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Well, so for me, altruism comes down to doing for
others to make things better forothers than maybe what they
would have otherwise. I Icurrently work with a tutoring
program that's mainly inner citypublic school students. And for
(51:24):
them, sometimes just having asingle adult who shows up on a
weekly basis in their life isthe most amazing thing because
they come from situations wherethey're constantly disappointed
by the adults in their life. Andand it's related to, of course,
all of the inner city problemsthat that create that. I feel
(51:47):
like I've been blessed with somuch that I have a
responsibility to try to helpothers either either move move
upwards in society or or find abetter path than they're
currently on.
I hope that made sense.
Roger (52:06):
Made total sense.
Speaker 3 (52:08):
I felt like I wandered kind of
Roger (52:09):
No. You you didn't want math. You didn't wander at all.
That was perfect. This is it'slike there's no right way.
This one thing I've learned overthe years, Nick, in business and
other things. Well, in military,that's our way. But in life
Exactly. It especiallyentrepreneurism. And in
retirement planning, there isonly Nix way.
(52:31):
You're you're you're n of 1 asBobby would say. You're your one
iteration that is unique to you,so there's no general right way.
There's just Nick's way, what'sright for Nick. That's all that
matters.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
Sounds good.
Roger (52:45):
Thank you for telling us the story of Nick. Often, we
don't get to tell that story.How did it feel?
Speaker 3 (52:49):
Felt good.
Roger (52:50):
Alright. It was
Speaker 3 (52:51):
it was interesting it was interesting to share about
myself that way.
Roger (52:56):
The reason we go through this is the values that you have
are the beginning of a threadand your goals should be how you
express your values in creatingthe life. Right? You wanna
create a life that is congruentwith the the values that you
(53:17):
have that are important to you.So it's a good filtering
mechanism for choices and forreflection of am I living what I
say is important to me. Becauseit's so easy to get off track in
this wild wild world of ours.
So that's the reason we starthere, and I'm glad that you
(53:39):
leaned into it because it's, youknow, it's very easy just to
wanna get to the numbers.
Speaker 3 (53:44):
Oh, no. Like I told you, Roger, I've listened to the
program from episode 1. I didn'tstart till COVID, but I listened
from episode 1 all the waythrough. And and I I appreciated
your podcast because it doesn'tjust focus on the numbers. It
focuses on all of life, youknow, health, you know, what you
(54:07):
do with your time, your money,what you do with your money.
But, I mean, it's full circle.It's the 360 view of retirement
as opposed to just the numberthe number the number, which is
what I think we easily can getlost in.
Roger (54:21):
Yeah. It's much more trackable. So next week, we're
gonna talk about goals. Soundgood?
Speaker 3 (54:26):
Sounds good.
Roger (54:28):
On your marks, get set. And we're off to take a baby
step you can take in the next 7days to not just rock
retirement, but rock your life.Alright. In the next 7 days,
very simple. Grab the valuesworksheet@rogerwhitney.comunderfreeresourcesorinour6shotSaturdayemail,
(54:52):
and go through the exercise andgive your first shot or revise
your current values to establishwhat your top ten values are in
life.
If you are married, have yourspouse do it separately and then
change papers, read them, anddiscuss them. Now we are going
(55:15):
to continue to read mygrandfather's log from World War
2 into the record. Missionnumber 112, July 16, 1944. Ship
number 9 16, sortie 8. Went toVienna, Austria and as expected
encountered lots of flak andfighters.
(55:36):
Target hit with fair result,flak heavy, concentrated, and
accurate. Carried 22 150 poundbombs. Mission was 6 hours 35
minutes. Altitude, 21,300 feet.Short and sweet today, Zig was.
He was probably tired. Happy NewYear, folks. We'll chat next
(55:58):
week. The opinions voiced inthis podcast are for general
information only and notintended to provide specific
advice or recommendations forany individual. All performance
reference is historical and doesnot guarantee future results.
All indices are unmanaged andcannot be invested in directly.
Make sure you consult yourlegal, tax, or financial adviser
(56:21):
before making any decisions.
The show is a proud member of the retirement podcast
network. Life is not a journeyto the grave with the intention
of arriving safely in a wellpreserved body, but rather to
skid in broadside thoroughlyused up, totally worn out, and
loudly proclaiming wow what aride. Hunter s Thompson. Welcome
(00:27):
to the show dedicated to helpingyou not just survive retirement,
but to have the confidencebecause you are doing the work
to really lean in and rock it.Hunter s Thompson, the gentleman
that stated those words, was arebel and an outcast in many
(00:47):
ways.
But that quote encapsulates whatrocking retirement is. To be
able to get to the end of lifeand look back and say, wow, what
a ride. Now there are manythings about Hunter s Thompson,
let's be honest here, that Iwould not want to emulate. But
(01:09):
in rocking retirement, in thepurpose of retirement planning,
I think it gets rockingretirement really well. Now
let's talk a little bit aboutwhat do we mean by wow, what a
ride.
What does that mean? Well, thecool thing here is you get to
decide what that means to you.You get to decide what your ride
(01:29):
is. That could be being a greatgrandparent, being a mentor,
being a volunteer, being acyclist, being a great spouse or
a friend. It could be changingthe world in a bigger way.
It doesn't matter. There's nowrong or right answer here.
There's only an answer that istrue to yourself of what that
(01:52):
ride is. And that's part of thegreat exploration that we all
get to do in this life, andretirement's a great time to be
able to do that. You have sometime freedom.
Once you have identified that orfeel the pull of something and
you go exploring, because you'renot gonna figure this out in an
afternoon, then go all in onyour life. Don't play small ball
(02:22):
as they say. Go all in on yourlife. That's the spirit of agile
retirement management in theprocess. That's the spirit of
the show.
We have a lot of changes comingwith the show that I think are
going to focus on that in ahealthy way and still deal with
the retirement planning, whichis the part that is the vehicle
to give us that confidence to goall in. So we the retirement
(02:43):
planning's critical. Now today,we are starting our live case
studies because we have 2 forthe price of 1 today and this
month, which is we're gonna talkto Laura and Nick, and you're
gonna meet them and hear fromthem over the next 4 weeks as
they tell their story. They'reboth on the precipice of
(03:07):
retirement. They're in theirlate fifties.
They are both single. Both havenever been married. They live on
opposite sides of the countryand have taken different paths
to get to where they are. Andwe're gonna explore how do you
rock retirement as a singleperson. Now you may say, hey,
(03:28):
Roger.
I don't know if I don't listento this. I'm not single. I've
been married 35 years. That'strue. But you know what?
I will place a bet right nowthat one of you, just like me or
Shauna, is going to be single inretirement. God willing, it's
not way until the end of it, butit could be sooner than you
(03:52):
think. And one thing that Lauraand Nick have going for
themselves that you and I, ifyou've been married a long time,
don't have is the skills of howto be alone and not be lonely
and to manage in thatenvironment. So I think this
applies to everybody. These areuniversal things.
So today, we're going to talk toLaura and Nick and hear about
(04:15):
who they are, what is theirstory, and what are their top
ten values. As part of that,we're gonna share a worksheet in
our 6 shot Saturday email, whichyou can sign up for at
so you can revisit or establishyour top ten values. So we'll
(04:37):
share that in our 6 shotSaturday email. And then next
week, we'll talk about theirgoals and then their resources
and then their views of aging asan independent person. Related
to all this stuff, and thenwe'll get on with the show, is
we are gonna have a live eventon January 30th with Laura where
(04:57):
we're going to go through whather vision is.
We're gonna look at whether it'sfeasible and ways to start
making it resilient in a liveresults show with Laura like
we've done in the past. Sothat's a Thursday, January 30th
at 7 PM CST. And then on Monday,we're gonna do the same thing
(05:17):
with Nick on February 3rd. So ifyou want to attend those live
and be able to ask questions andshare your perspective, go to
live with roger.com andregister. In addition to that,
one last thing, and then we'llget moving and meet Laura.
I'm excited. Is on the 30thJanuary, we are opening up
(05:41):
enrollment to the RockRetirement Club, our online
community that gives youeverything you need to build
your plan of record to haveclarity on what is possible and
start to take action on that. Soit's your platform to be able to
do that and have adultconversations about Monday. So
on February 1st, we're gonnahave an open house dedicated
(06:01):
specifically to that and seethat way, you can see whether
it's a fit for you, and you cansign up for that at live with
roger.com. Alright.
Got that out of the way. Nowlet's have our first
conversation and meet Laura.Laura, nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Good to meet you, Roger.
Roger (06:25):
We really just met the first time a minute ago.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yes. We did.
Roger (06:31):
So let's start with Laura's story. So how old are
you?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I am currently 59.
Roger (06:40):
You're 59. Okay. And are you working still?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I am still working, hoping to not be working
sometime soon.
Roger (06:48):
Okay. So what industry are you in?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
I am in transportation and distribution.
Roger (06:54):
Okay. Logistics. Transportation.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Logistics. Yes.
Roger (06:59):
And you mentioned that you hope to not be working soon.
What's your target retirementdate if you're 59 now?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I would say it'd be a great sixtieth birthday present
to myself. So sometime withinthe next 12 months.
Roger (07:14):
Okay. So we're gonna shoot for that as ideal. We're
gonna get to the goals, nextweek. So have you've always been
in transportation?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Pretty much. Yes, actually. K. Yeah. A little bit
little variations here andthere, but but, but always in
management really intransportation Okay.
And distribution. Yes.
Roger (07:33):
And you are not married?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
I'm not married.
Roger (07:36):
Have you ever been married?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
I have never been married.
Roger (07:39):
Okay. No children?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
No children other than my 4 legged dogs.
Roger (07:44):
What what are your dogs' names?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I have, Josie and Miley.
Roger (07:48):
Now what kind of dogs are they?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
They're both from the pound. One's a pit bull mix, and
one's a little dachshund terriermix.
Roger (07:55):
Okay. K. And they like each other pretty well?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Oh, they love each other. They're sleeping together
right now.
Roger (08:02):
I just really feel I'm looking at Sherlock over there
sleeping on the couch. And Ialways thought it's like when he
was a pup, we had 2 other dogsbecause he was a transition dog.
So I am I wonder if he's lonelynow that, you know, it's just
him.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Probably loves all the attention.
Roger (08:15):
Probably. He definitely does. And so give me, like, the
5 minute Laura story. Tell metell me about this is your life.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
This is my life. Just you know, I thought I was doing
the right thing. Went to school,got a bachelor's, and then I was
going to go into the sociology,kind of route and realized that
I didn't pay much. So I wentback to school, got my master's,
stuck with the distribution, andstayed with the company for 15
(08:46):
years that I got through collegewith. And then I decided that it
was going to eat me alive, or Iwas going to die of a heart
attack if I stayed there andstarted making some moves and
then moved to another company.
Roger (09:00):
What was the pressure that made you say, oh, this is
gonna is it just the the pace ofwork? Or
Speaker 2 (09:06):
The pace of work is is extremely demanding, you
know, kind of job that, it's adelivery, package delivery. So
Christmases are nonexistent.They would say full time is all
the time, part time is fulltime, full time is all the time.
So it was a very demanding job,and I just couldn't see you in
(09:26):
another 15 years.
Roger (09:28):
Now how did you feel brave enough to pivot?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
There was someone that had worked there, and she
had gone to another company. Andthey had a 4 day work week, so I
thought, wow. That sounds great.And, so I took the I took the
leap.
Roger (09:41):
And and that's where you've been since?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
No. Actually, I I was there for 4 years, but the
commute was was kind of long.And I live in California, and
and traffic in California is,unique. So the commute was long,
unpredictable, and then I endedup going to another company also
in distribution warehousing,distribution, and stayed there
(10:06):
11 years. And then went fromthere, I decided I wanna go to a
small company.
And I figured that was gonna bemy last stop. So I wanted to do
something a little smaller,family owned, just really
friendly place, great place towork, and that's where I've been
ever since. So I've been there 8years now.
Roger (10:26):
And what is your motivation to want to, quote,
unquote, retire?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Motivation is really because I want to have my own
time. It it's a little difficultright now because I work full
time. I do I live in California,still commute, still have a
little bit of, traffic, so thedays are long. And then I'm also
spending quite a bit of timetaking care of my mother who is
87, and that doesn't leave a lotof time for me. So I'm thinking,
(10:57):
okay.
I think I've done everythingright. I've put into my 401 k my
whole life. You know? Maybe it'sgonna pay off. So that's more of
my motivation.
It isn't so much that I don'twanna work. In fact, I look at
other jobs and think, wow. Thiswould be cool to work there. But
it's more of wanting some moretime. Do you
Roger (11:15):
think that the time of dealing with your mother puts
extra pressure on not havinghaving enough time for yourself?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. For a while there, I
was spending 3 or 4 days a weekwith her. So I was neglecting my
own life and my own home, andthat's a little tough.
Roger (11:37):
Yeah. Yes. Now do you have family local?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I do. I do. And and, we've gotten into a better
system now, so they arecontributing a little more. And,
we're we're we're doing a lotbetter. So now I'm down to 2
days, which is much better andgetting things done.
My dogs are happy with thatbecause I can walk them every
day. And, but it's still youknow, you get to the point where
(12:03):
you wonder, you know, at whatpoint do is this time gonna be
just mine? And have I doneenough to make it just my time
so I can get up, go for a hike,go biking, do do whatever I want
when I want? Yeah. I'd be morerelaxed when I'm spending time
doing other things.
Roger (12:20):
They always say a happy dog is a tired dog.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Right? Yes.
Roger (12:25):
Lot less destructive too. So I wanna ask you a question.
This is actually just personalcuriosity. So I'm 57. You're 59.
Got married right out ofcollege. Wasn't planning on it.
It just sort of happened. Otherthan a brief time before I got
married, I have never livedalone.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Wow.
Roger (12:47):
And I don't know whether you've always lived alone and
the journey in a personal end ofit. But from a social
standpoint, what is it likeliving alone? I guess my
question because I've never doneit.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Interesting. That's an interesting question. I
haven't always lived alone. Youknow, college, you have
roommates and, you know, thisand that. But, personally, I
love it.
You know, I can do what I wantwhen I want. I don't have to
check-in with anyone or, youknow, go to bed if I want to
early or late or, you know, stayup all night. I have a a gym at
(13:20):
my house, so I can work out whenI want. And, personally, I love
it. But I do have to consciouslymake efforts to be social.
And, recently, I've found, like,meet up groups, hiking groups,
and that's been really great.
Roger (13:35):
Yeah. I was gonna say, have you have you thought about
do you have all of this freetime? Obviously, it'll give you
some time with your mother, butyou have a lot of social network
within work even if you'removing really fast. What is it
like when you don't have thatbuilt in socialization for lack
(13:57):
of a better term?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
I have thought about it. I've spoken to, you know, a
few people who've retiredrecently. And and I think you
have to make a conscious effortto to work on that. I do wanna
do volunteer work. I loveanimals, and I'm planning to
volunteer at, you know, theshelters, whether it's just
walking dogs or or what haveyou.
But I do realize you have tomake a conscious effort to be
(14:21):
social. I'm a bit introverted,so I'm okay with not being as
social as some other people me.And, at work, even though there
are people there and you areyou're having conversations,
it's not an environment we'rehaving long winded conversations
and sharing all kinds of storiesor anything.
Roger (14:40):
Yeah. You're problem solving. You're managing the
system. Right? You mentioned afew hobbies.
You said hiking. What are someof the things that you that
bring you joy, hobby wise?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Hiking, you know, just finding a new trail and
getting out there with the dogsif possible. The little one
can't really make those trails,so sometimes she, you know,
needs to stay behind. I love toroad bike. However, I haven't
been as much because I don'thave the time. I do have a
Peloton, and I'm on that everyday.
Roger (15:13):
So Don't say that with with, like, disgust. It's like
roads road cyclists shouldn'thave Peloton. I have a Peloton.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Well, I said that because I'm like, oh, should I
say Peloton or not?
Roger (15:22):
Yeah. Sure. I have
Speaker 2 (15:23):
I think it's an awesome piece of equipment.
Helped me tremendously throughCOVID. It was just a godsend.
And with limited time, I can geton there and crank out, you
know, 30 minute ride. I don'thave to get to a trail, you
know, get the bike out of thecar and, you know
Roger (15:40):
Logistically, it makes it hard. And you end up not being
outside as much, but it makes itso much easier. Right?
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Right. But I could see 3 days a week getting on the
trail for 3 hours.
Roger (15:52):
On a road trail you're referring to, like
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah. On the road trail. Yes. Yes. Not on not on
the Peloton, but on the yeah.
Roger (15:57):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Right down to the beach and back. Yeah.
Roger (16:01):
I have the Peloton row too, which I use much more than
the bike. It's Oh, really?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Okay. Great. I heard it's nice, but it's a yeah.
Yeah.
Roger (16:12):
It's full body. What else should I know about Laura as
we're thinking about building aplan of record so you can maybe
hit the sixtieth birthdaytarget? What else should I know
about you?
Speaker 2 (16:26):
That's a good question. I mentioned I'm a
little introverted. I don't needto do huge travel. I have, you
know, friends that have retiredand they're doing these, you
know, $20,000 trips and stufflike that. That's just not me.
I loved your podcast. I think itwas 2 weeks ago about, like,
blocking out the noise because Ithink that's one of the first
things people say. Oh, you'regonna travel? Are you gonna
(16:48):
retire? You wanna travel?
And I've traveled. And I'm notsaying I don't want to, but it's
not it's not everything for me.So I am pretty thrifty or
frugal.
Roger (17:01):
Yeah. Well, there there are positive spins and negative
spins depending on which wordyou use.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yes.
Roger (17:07):
Give me an example of Laura being frugal.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
You know, I honestly, I have I buy everything I want
when I want it, but I guess I mymy desires aren't as big as
others so that I've always livedwithin my means. I have zero
debt. My house is now paid off.Car's paid off. I have 2 wave
(17:32):
runners.
They're paid off. I I just livewithin my means, but I guess
some people might think that'sfrugal because you're making
decisions based on what youhave. For me, that's just my way
of living.
Roger (17:47):
Well, you know, Peloton, those are not inexpensive. True.
I bet if I asked what type ofbicycle you have, it would not
be inexpensive.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Correct.
Roger (17:57):
Right? So I'm thinking more Michael Easter. You have
gear, quality gear that allowsyou to do things that you enjoy.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Right. And I don't have to go out and buy the the
latest and greatest, although Ido you know, I have my
specialized bike and, you know,my Peloton and and anything that
that brings me joy, I guess, youcould say.
Roger (18:17):
Yeah. Yeah. So I asked you to do an exercise to
establish your top ten values,and I wanna go over that. But
before I do, I wanna ask you,why do you think that is the
first thing I asked you to do?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Well, I would say it is really it makes you think. It
makes you really think aboutwhat's important in life and
what's important to you. So Iwould think that it, it sets
that foundation of where you areand where you wanna be and
continue to be. And by reallythinking about these things, you
I think you get a better pictureof who you are to yourself. And
(18:58):
then if you're reading it, youget a better picture of who I am
and what's important to me.
Roger (19:03):
Okay. Then I'll so let's go over a few things. What
experiences brought you the mostjoy? Put down hiking with your
dogs. Mhmm.
Stand up paddle boarding, roadbiking. Definitely sounds like
the California lifestyle. Beingoutside in nature, so you like
to be outside?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Absolutely. Yes.
Roger (19:21):
What is it about outside?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
You know, it's just it's beautiful. It's the sky,
the wind, the it's the sun. Youknow, it's it's just freeing.
Roger (19:33):
Okay. Like, being by water is sort of that way too.
Right?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Mhmm. Exactly.
Roger (19:37):
Outside is my word for next year.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Oh, nice. Okay.
Roger (19:42):
Specifically in Colorado.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Alright.
Roger (19:45):
Outside in Colorado. And then the second question, we'll
have a link to this worksheet inour 6 shot Saturday email. So if
you're hanging out listeningwith us, you can grab that
worksheet and revisit orestablish your top ten values.
The next question we ask is whatmakes you angry or frustrated?
And I can't imagine this firstone that you said, which is
traffic.
(20:05):
I don't understand.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I know. It's, far fetched on that one, I think.
No. No. Yeah.
Traffic and just wasting timeand just sitting there and
killing the planet at the sametime because you're just sitting
in traffic. Yeah.
Roger (20:21):
Yeah. Now you put cancer, lives cut short. Have you had
some experience with that,either yourself or people you
love?
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah. I've had, 3 very good friends that all have
passed in their fifties. And, Imean, my best friend from for 30
something years, passed fromcancer. My father also passed at
72 from cancer. So, yeah, it's,I think it really makes you
think twice about, okay.
(20:50):
Do I wanna keep working? Do Iwant to do something else maybe,
you know, that adds value alittle bit more than what I'm
currently doing? I'm sure I addvalue to someone somewhere, but
but it's not as deep. And, yeah,cancer and losing people
definitely makes you reevaluatelife.
Roger (21:09):
It's one thing when you lose people when they're older.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Mhmm.
Roger (21:14):
I mean, it's still impactful, but when you lose
cohort, people that are yoursame age or younger.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yes.
Roger (21:23):
That you were friends with that have shared their
aspirations and their dreams forlater and seeing that not
materialize for them. Definitelybrings it home, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Absolutely. Absolutely. It really makes you
think I mean, life can be cutshort at any time. So
Roger (21:43):
Makes you think, what the hell am I doing?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Exactly. Right? Yep. Get a move on because if you're
just gonna keep working anddoing the right thing, then I
mean, what I've always been toldwas the right thing, which is
get up, go to work, you know, beproductive, pay your bills.
Roger (22:00):
You you were able to delay this chat we had today
because I was helping my sonmove. He was moving from near us
to Plano, which is about 45minutes away and move moving in
with his girlfriend, Mel, who Iadore. She's awesome. And we
were sitting around after weremoved whatever in. It's just
some final pieces.
And I'm sitting on the couch andtalking to Mel, and she's
(22:20):
talking about her career andwhat she wants to do. And she's
not quite sure because she's insoftware, development and did it
right out of college. It's theonly thing she's ever known
trying to figure out what shewants her life to be. And I was
trying to explain to her. It'slike, go try living some place
else.
Where would I go? I was like, Idon't know. Just make it up. You
can the most decisions are 2 a 2a's, and I was trying to help
(22:43):
her think outside of this iswhat everybody says I'm supposed
to do or this is what everybodyelse is doing. Right?
Yes. And I I I said to her, Mel,nobody knows how to do any of
this. We're just making it up aswe go along. You don't have to
listen to anybody. That's hardthough.
Right? Even if you know it.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yes. It really is actually. It's really hard if
you're, you know, thinking youneed to be responsible, you need
to do what society tells youyou're supposed to do, then,
yeah, it can be really hard totake a leap of faith.
Roger (23:15):
Yeah. And just trust yourself. Different.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Roger (23:19):
Well, let's talk about your top ten values briefly.
Okay? So number 1 and we didthis as a highest to lowest. I
actually don't know if you needto prioritize them. Number 1 is
integrity.
That's a good one to have.That's like a okay. Yeah. Never
that. Why did you pick that one?
That's a good one to have.Right? Integrity. You put
family, quote, unquote,including dogs. Will you always
(23:42):
have dogs?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I think so.
Roger (23:44):
Think so?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I yeah. I mean, I my mom is 87. She has a dog, and I
was watching her on the videothe other night. And she went to
go to bed, and she got out ofbed, and she gave the dog a kiss
at the end of the bed. You know,dog was at the end of the bed.
And it was just the cutestthing, but it's it's they bring
you joy. Yeah. So why not?
Roger (24:07):
Friendship. Even though you're introvert, you want
friendship.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Roger (24:12):
Fun. I think fun is just sort of a way of life.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yes.
Roger (24:17):
I was asked the other day by Tanya, I think it was. She
says I always have a lightnessto me. And I'm like, well,
that's by design. I never wasalways that way. It took me
about 10 years to practicelateness.
And I I tell I've worked onhaving a a smirky smile all the
time so I don't have thatresting jerk face. And when I
(24:41):
talk, I try to have a littlelaugh inside, and it actually
has made a huge difference.Personal development, travel.
Travel to you is like, it's nottraveling the world, it sounds
like. What's travel to you?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I actually wanna see all the US. You know? All the
parks, all the you know? Thatkind of travel. And and
traveling the world is good too.
I've been to a few placesalready, and and it's not a
necessity. If it doesn't happen,I won't die. There are places I
still wanna go see, though. I dowanna go to Italy and Greece,
but it's not a must do. But Ithink it'll happen.
Roger (25:19):
Well, let me ask this. When it comes to travel, because
this is one of those genericretirement goals. Right? And
we'll get to goals Yes. In alittle bit.
Why do you think that is? Is itbecause everybody else says
travel, or what is the drive fortravel?
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Not because everyone else. It it would actually be to
go and and just kind of live inthe culture to try to just see
how you know, just to observehow other people live and, you
know, you hear so much about howthe US is so fast paced and then
other countries are a littleslower. And just to sit in a
(25:56):
cafe and, you know, have a adrink and watch, you know, watch
just watch things. I just, youknow I read a lot of books or or
listen, audiobooks, and, there'sjust a lot more out there.
Roger (26:11):
But you wanna witness?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
To speak to witness. Yes. Yeah.
Roger (26:16):
Then you have giving back and volunteering. You talked
about that. And then learning.You're not learning, you're
dying for sure. Mhmm.
I like this exercise at thebeginning, Laura, because when
we talk about goals, which iswhat we're gonna do next time,
you know, we'll use a dogmetaphor. It's easy to let the
tail wag the dog. And the tailbeing the money and taxes and
(26:42):
all these planning things thatwe have to think about. It's
easy to let those things wag thedog and fit our life into these
other things when logically yourvalue should be what drives
everything. Right?
Your goals are derivatives ofyou living out your values, and
it's a filtering mechanism tosee if you're congruent or not
(27:04):
so you don't get too far overyour skis when we get to
optimization and all the crazystuff. So I
Speaker 2 (27:11):
think that's why I had integrity first. So it's
staying true to myself andwhat's important to me.
Roger (27:18):
How do you okay. That's a so that's a different kind of
integrity than I interpreted.Yes. Being honest. So staying
integrity in terms of livingbeing brave enough to be
yourself.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yes. Right? Absolutely.
Roger (27:31):
How do you grade yourself? How do you check
yourself in that sense? Do youhave a practice or a ritual to
say, is this really who I am?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
I do not, but that's a good question. Like, you know,
how do you come up with apractice or ritual to to make
sure? But I don't get suckedinto, you know, the noise as you
guys talked about on yourprevious podcast. You know, I
try not to. It just doesn'tdrive me, you know, to try to
(28:03):
keep up with the Joneses, Iguess.
I'm just not that kind ofperson. So
Roger (28:07):
Okay. One book recommendation that was related
to this that I'm working on. Ireread about once a year. It's
called Essentialism by, what'shis name? McGregor?
What? Oh, it's calledessentialism. We'll have a link
in 6 shots Saturday. I forgetthe gentleman's name, but he's
English. Because I I strugglewith this too, right?
Because there's so many thingsyou want to do and how do you
(28:29):
know what are the most importantthings? And he had a framework
in there of trade offs. And it'slike any opportunity, whether
it's a piece of clothing or togo do a volunteer opportunity or
whatever it is, you have asystem from 0 to 10 and you rate
the opportunity with it from 0to 10. And if it's a 9 or a 10,
(28:52):
it's a hell yes. And if it's an8 or below, you move it to a 0.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Wow.
Roger (28:58):
To try to stay focused on only truly the most important
things to you. That's a hardthing to do because we always
wanna please everybody.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Right.
Roger (29:07):
Well, thank you for introducing yourself. Next week,
we're gonna talk about yourgoals.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Okay. Sounds great.
Roger (29:19):
So now we have the he said in the she said, he said
portion of retirement plan livebecause we have a a lady that's
doing this as well, which is aninteresting thing. And so I
wanna introduce you to Nick. Howare you doing, Nick?
Speaker 3 (29:31):
I'm doing good, Roger. How are you?
Roger (29:33):
Good. Good. Oh, you sound serious now that we're talking
on there. We were just talkingbeforehand and joking around. My
objective today, Nick, is tojust hear the story of Nick and
talk about your values.
But as you begin this retirementplan live, I'd be interested in
(29:55):
hearing why you raised your handand what it is you want out of
it.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Okay. So the reason why I raised my hand was because
I feel like I'm reaching thepoint where I I want to retire
and do something else with mytime rather than just earn a
paycheck. And it just happenedthat you were looking for a
single contestants as
Roger (30:19):
Contestants. There's no prizes here. Maybe you retire.
There's no prizes. No cur nocurtains.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Right. Right. But I just I I realized that it was an
opportunity maybe to take a lookat where I stand in in terms of
being prepared to retire. AndI've always thought that the
previous retirement plan liveepisodes, I've always learned a
tremendous amount from them andthe willingness that people have
(30:46):
been to share. And I just wantedthe opportunity maybe to help a
a single person navigate thistransition.
Roger (30:54):
And you are single?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
I am single. Never been married and known children.
Life just took me down a pathwhere it just never was the
right place at the right time.It wasn't that it that I that
either of those things weren't,desired. It just never happened
for me, and and that's okay too.
We all have a different path.
Roger (31:14):
And there's still a lot of life left. So it's not so
you're still open to whatevermakes sense, but it just never
happened.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Exactly. And and I am blessed with, 10 nieces and
nephews who really provide mewith a lot of parenting like
opportunities with the with theability to send them home when
I'm finished.
Roger (31:37):
Yeah. It's like being a grandparent where you get to
just send them off. So how oldare you, Nick?
Speaker 3 (31:43):
I'm 57 just this month.
Roger (31:45):
Alright. Alright. So we're about the same age for a
month or so. So you're 57. Youlive on the East Coast.
We'll just say you work ingovernment.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
I do work in government.
Roger (31:56):
Tell me a little bit about your life. So if this was,
this is your life in 3 or 4 or 5minutes, give me your story.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
So I was born and raised in the upper Midwest when
I graduated from high school. Ielected to join the the a
military service and the reservecomponent. While I was going to
college part time, I was alsoworking a job full time. At a
certain point, I just becamefrustrated with the working all
(32:26):
the time to go to school parttime, and I really didn't feel
like I had a destination incollege at the time. The
opportunity was presented to goon active duty in my military
service, and I went, well,there's the GI bill.
Maybe I could go do that for 4years and come back with the GI
bill and go back to college.Suffice it to say 22 years
(32:49):
later, I retired from thatmilitary service. I was a budget
analyst for my career in themilitary, mainly working with
military budgets. At the end ofmy time in the military, I
landed on the East Coast and hada really great opportunity to
transition into the civilservice of the federal
(33:09):
government doing basically theexact same thing, budget
analyst.
Roger (33:13):
Does it still work where if you do that, your service
years just roll over? It used tobe that way.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
So so it really depends, Roger, on what grade
and how many years of serviceyou had in the military and what
grade you have in the civilservice. For some people, it
makes total sense to buy yourtime. For other people, it makes
sense for them to maintain theirmilitary retirement separate
from a civil service retirement.So for me, it made more sense
(33:43):
for me to buy my time.
Roger (33:45):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
So my military retirement check will go away
when I retire, but it will bereplaced by a larger civil
service retirement check.
Roger (33:54):
Sorry to derail you there, but it just came to mind.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
No. No. That's okay. And so I I transitioned out of
the military in 2010, and I'vebeen working as a civil servant
since 2011. I have to admitafter 35 years of of dealing
with the federal budget process,I've grown
Roger (34:15):
a little weary. I hate to
Speaker 3 (34:16):
put it like that, but I've grown a little weary. It
doesn't spark as much joy for meas it used to. And and a lot of
that is, of course, tied to thepolitics in our in our federal
government. Right, wrong, orindifferent, it is what it is. I
would just like to disengagefrom the federal budget process
as an employee and just watch itas a civilian like the rest of
(34:39):
America generally does.
And I guess that's me in anutshell.
Roger (34:43):
Yeah. And just so you know that I've performed in this
rodeo for years, and I'm tiredof this rodeo is very normal
even in the private sector.Right? You should Right. You've
mastered what you've been ableto master.
You recognize the constraints ofthe structure, and there's
(35:05):
nothing else to learn for youpersonally.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Exactly. That's kinda how I feel. I I feel like I've
I've I've gotten as far as I cango on this path, and I'm open to
exploring the next path.
Roger (35:18):
And then at parties, rather than be the recipient of
everything that's wrong withwhat you do, you can be the
person on the sidelines, youknow, talking about how it's all
messed up.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Exactly. I often am the person who hears about how
is it they can't do their jobs,and I'm like, well, it's really
not me who made that decision,but it will it will be nice to
be on the outside of thatlooking at it. I have to admit.
I grown tired of being on theinside looking out.
Roger (35:46):
And so that is part of what you've recognized of, okay,
this season in my life shouldend. It's it's in the autumn or
the fall. And I think that'sgood to recognize. Do you
struggle with that? Like, if youthink of a change of seasons, it
sorta gets a hot day and a coldday.
Do you go back and forth, or isit pretty much, no. This is the
(36:06):
direction I need to go?
Speaker 3 (36:08):
It's mainly I feel like this is the direction I
need to head in. Yeah. I mean,every once in a while, there'll
be a a little glimmer of lightthat things are looking normal
again, and then it quickly getssnuffed out. And then I kinda
like, oh, it's just gonna beexactly like it was the last
time and the time before. And soI I am mainly ready to be
(36:31):
finished and and moving on a newpath.
Roger (36:34):
I wanna ask a question. I had lunch with a friend slash
client that I've known foryears, and I learned something
very interesting about him. Heconnected some dots when he was
young. For him, it was he wasvery athletically motivated, and
he was really slow. And then hewent on this little program in
(36:58):
the summer for himself justinternally of working to get
faster and in the and then whenhe came out for what I think was
soccer, he suddenly was a lotfaster, and he connected the
dots between something that hehad some control over to a
result, and that has been athread that has guided his life
(37:19):
a little bit with thoseconnecting of dots.
And it doesn't have to berelated to that, but I'm just
curious when you look back whenyou were younger, are are there
any moments in your life orexperiences that connected some
dots that have been a threat inyour life?
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Well, there has been. I was I as I said, you know, I I
was struggling to figure outwhat I was gonna do in college.
And and when I went in the army,I discovered my love for
numbers, as a budget analyst andunderstanding how the federal
government gets from a to b to cto d. I always I always enjoyed
(37:59):
how we process our information,how we get to where we're going.
And I found that in my own life,I'm very process oriented, if
that makes sense.
Roger (38:08):
Mhmm.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
I think that comes with working with numbers. I'd
like to know that what the nextstep in my process is. And so
I've always been processoriented. The part that I enjoy
the best is the result, notnecessarily the work, but
getting the the final result, ifthat makes any sense.
Roger (38:24):
It sure does. Like, you suffer in training to get the
result. Right. How is that isthat love let me ask it this
way. Is that love going torepresent itself when you are
not working?
That love of numbers andprocess?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
I believe the process part of it definitely will. I
I'm very interested in no longerworking for a paycheck if that's
a possibility. I would ratherdonate myself and my time to
causes that I care about. Andand, of course, once again,
there's gonna be processes andprocedures that are entailed in
(39:00):
a volunteering opportunity, andI'm hoping to transition to that
kind of process and procedure asopposed to a directed, you know,
kind of mandated calendar.
Roger (39:13):
What is it about a paycheck that changes things?
Speaker 3 (39:19):
That's a good question. Of course, we always
associate our our our value assomehow we we've come to value
associate our value as a personas to the paycheck that we get.
And I've reached the point wherewhere I'm hoping that I no
longer have to value my time indollars and cents, but rather in
(39:43):
good work for free. I hopethat's answering the question.
Roger (39:47):
There's no wrong answer. My daughter I asked my daughter
this because she does art. Shedoes embroidery and just she's
like an a grandmother craftslady, but 27. And I asked her
about this because she'll havefriends that will ask her to do
an embroidery or something, andI think she had a good answer.
There's no wrong answer, but Iliked her answer.
And they wanna pay her for it.And she never wants to receive
(40:09):
money for it. And I asked herwhy because I could have a
little you know, I'm theentrepreneur. You could have a
little side hustle here. And shesays, 1, I love doing it.
2, I love that they love it. And3, if they paid me, now I'd have
a deadline. I would have more ofan obligation to them. Well, I
(40:33):
would I didn't like the the waythis was done, and I paid you
money for it so you can even fixit. So it sort of put all of
that pressure on something thatactually just brings your joy.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
That sounds about where I feel like I'm headed.
You know? I've I've the the thepaycheck comes with deadlines
and requirements, whereasvolunteering comes with, first
of all, the time freedom to say,okay. I'm gonna take a week off,
which is harder when you'reemployed. And it also gives you
the ability to pick and choosethe things that you want to
(41:07):
spend your time on rather thanthere's several processes in my
current job that literally theprocess makes me miserable.
Roger (41:15):
Okay. That makes sense too. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
That makes sense too. And I and I don't wanna be in
that feedback loop anymore of ofdreading the the the processes
that I don't enjoy anymore.
Roger (41:28):
That that makes sense. So let's go to your values. Have
you ever done an exercise likethat before?
Speaker 3 (41:36):
I've done something similar with the, like, the
leadership personality teststhat you see out there.
Roger (41:43):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
It it seems to me I did one as I was progressing
through the military ranks atsome point. And then there was a
civil service government coursethat I took on emerging leaders
that also had kind of apersonality.
Roger (41:59):
They love to assess people. I mean, corporations.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Yeah. So I've done something similar, not exactly
like what you provided.
Roger (42:07):
Okay. So the first question and we have this
worksheet will be available in 6shot Saturday. So if you're
signed up for that, you can geta link to download the PDF. If
not, you can go torogerwitty.com and sign up for
that. First question was, whatexperiences bring you the most
joy?
We don't have to go through thisin detail, but I wanna go to a
(42:27):
sentence where you said travelis a hunger that I need to feed.
Good sentence. Why?
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Yeah. One of the things I've enjoyed about my
military service and probablywas a big part of the reason why
I stayed with it beyond aninitial 4 years to get a GI bill
and then kind of the currentposition I'm serving in as a
civil servant is they offeredgreat travel opportunities as
(42:55):
part of the job. And I foundvery quickly my my first
assignment overseas was in SouthKorea, and I just found myself
absolutely fascinated with theculture and the sights and the
sounds. And it's probably, likeI said, what kept me in the
(43:16):
military for 22 years. I had anopportunity to live overseas on
4 different occasions.
My current job provides me theopportunity to travel to the
region that I manage for mycurrent job, and and I enjoyed
that. And I can't see myselfsettling down and not traveling
(43:39):
anymore in retirement. It wouldbe important that I could take a
couple trips a year to go seethe sights and sounds. I I've
seen somewhere over 35countries. Some of them not
enough that I wouldn't have togo back and see some more of
them, but there's an additional150 some countries out there in
the world.
Not necessarily do I wanna seeall of them, but there's there's
(44:02):
a lot of them I'm interested ingoing and tasting the flavor of
their culture and the way theylive. I've just really enjoyed
that part of travel.
Roger (44:11):
I've been I've been starting unintentionally an
informal survey around why istravel always one of the top
goals in retirement? Because itjust it's almost stereotypical.
You're retired, you go travel.And you mentioned the sights and
the sounds, but what is thedriver of wanting to taste these
(44:36):
sight and sounds and seedifferent places for you?
Speaker 3 (44:40):
I I think it's just I'm not one of those people who
goes someplace and does the hopon hop off and, you know, I'll
get on it when I first get therefor one trip around and get the
lay of the land, kind of figureout what's north and south and
east and west. And then I wannabe on my own on on my you know,
moving around on my feet,walking through the
(45:01):
neighborhoods. I appreciate thefact that humanity across the
world lives in such a variety ofways, has such diverse beliefs
and understandings, and I wantto continue to experience that.
Roger (45:20):
What does that do for you though?
Speaker 3 (45:22):
Oh, planning a trip and and taking the trip and then
talking about the trip withfriends and family when I come
back. It just gives me a lot ofjoy. I it's almost like I said,
it's a hunger. I I want to doit. I I I want to experience
other things.
(45:42):
I mean, not that there'sanything wrong with where I live
right now, but I understand inmy mind that it's just such a
small part of the whole world.And if you're a good tourist,
the people you meet in theirplaces are gonna have an have an
impression of leave a mark onthem, they leave a mark on you.
(46:08):
And and hopefully, if you go andyou and and you and you behave
properly and you enjoy yourselfand you interact with the
locals, they're gonna say, well,those people from where you come
from, they're special too. Andmaybe I wanna go there someday.
I think I think it it just theinteraction with people So it's
(46:29):
not just the travel.
It's the interaction with thepeople and the places that that
really inspire me.
Roger (46:34):
I love that idea about the interactions and and how
people start to view each other.That I totally get, and I've had
some experience of that just inthe US having I live in Texas.
And to some people there, that'slike, oh. Right? And then but I
had I went to San Francisco.
(46:55):
And in Texas, some people go,oh. And I had I recall a few
years ago having dinner with acouple in downtown San
Francisco, and they were like,Texas, oh. And I was like, San
Francisco, oh. And as we toldthe stories of our children and
everything, it was like, wow.It's pretty much the same.
(47:17):
It rhyme. It so the thestereotypical battle lines got
deconstructed a bit from what wehear. So I see that in what
you're talking about. That'sinteresting. Let's go to your
values.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
Okay.
Roger (47:33):
Now, yeah, on the worksheet, we don't have to go
through each one of these indetail, but I just wanna, you
know, just survey them. I I itit says to high top ten values
highest to lowest, and I don'tknow if you did a hierarchy of
these or not. I have them infront of me if you want me to
share them with you.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
Yep. I have I have them too, Roger.
Roger (47:53):
Alright. Number 1 was security. So what does that
mean?
Speaker 3 (47:57):
Security to me means that I'm gonna be okay. And in a
lot of ways, that's meansfinancially. When when I when I
purchased my my home and mycommunity, one of the things
that was important to me wasn'thow much the bank told me I
could have to buy a place. Itwas, okay. My military
(48:20):
retirement check is this much.
If everything in the world fellapart and I didn't have a job, I
would at least have my home.
Roger (48:31):
Right.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
I would be able to pay for my home, and I could go
flip burgers at the local fastfood restaurant if I if I needed
to feed myself.
Roger (48:40):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
So when I talk about security, that's what I mean for
security. Understanding that I'mI'm gonna probably be
financially okay is important.
Roger (48:51):
Okay. Number 2 is relationships, and you talked
about this a lot with all thenieces and nephews. This is
obviously a big value for you.Time freedom, I think we hit in
some of your comments related tovolunteering and budget and
travel. Number 4 is the firsttime I've ever seen this one,
which is patriotism
Speaker 3 (49:09):
well, I you know, I I joined the army the army reserve
out of high school because I Ibelieve that Service to country
is important. It wasn't at theat the time, you know, I could
have just got active for me atthe you know out of the gate But
at that point, I was kind ofthinking my trajectory was
(49:30):
college and, Private sector, youknow a non uniform job, I guess,
is what I would say, anonmilitary uniform job. I ended
up serving a total of 25 yearsin the between the Army Reserve
and the Army when I was gettingready to retire. It wasn't that
I didn't have options outside ofthe government. It was that I I
(49:55):
really believe that service toyour country is important and
service to your the citizens ofyour country is important And so
I I chose to continue my path asa civil servant in the federal
government Okay, makes me makesme a little crazy when I hear
the national anthem and peopledon't stand up and people don't
(50:17):
take their hats off and people,you know I'm not sure that
patriotism runs as deeply inAmerica anymore as it used to,
and I think that's unfortunate.
Roger (50:28):
And I see the way that you describe patriotism, it
seems to rhyme with number 6,which is your what just
community. You know, servingyour country, serving your
community, you know, andpatriotism for you took the form
of military and for others, it'sserving the community. Right?
There's different ways to serveyour country. But,
Speaker 3 (50:51):
exactly.
Roger (50:52):
Okay. Now the 5th one is an odd word that we don't hear
much as we used to, altruism. Sodefine that for you.
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Well, so for me, altruism comes down to doing for
others to make things better forothers than maybe what they
would have otherwise. I Icurrently work with a tutoring
program that's mainly inner citypublic school students. And for
(51:24):
them, sometimes just having asingle adult who shows up on a
weekly basis in their life isthe most amazing thing because
they come from situations wherethey're constantly disappointed
by the adults in their life. Andand it's related to, of course,
all of the inner city problemsthat that create that. I feel
(51:47):
like I've been blessed with somuch that I have a
responsibility to try to helpothers either either move move
upwards in society or or find abetter path than they're
currently on.
I hope that made sense.
Roger (52:06):
Made total sense.
Speaker 3 (52:08):
I felt like I wandered kind of
Roger (52:09):
No. You you didn't want math. You didn't wander at all.
That was perfect. This is it'slike there's no right way.
This one thing I've learned overthe years, Nick, in business and
other things. Well, in military,that's our way. But in life
Exactly. It especiallyentrepreneurism. And in
retirement planning, there isonly Nix way.
(52:31):
You're you're you're n of 1 asBobby would say. You're your one
iteration that is unique to you,so there's no general right way.
There's just Nick's way, what'sright for Nick. That's all that
matters.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
Sounds good.
Roger (52:45):
Thank you for telling us the story of Nick. Often, we
don't get to tell that story.How did it feel?
Speaker 3 (52:49):
Felt good.
Roger (52:50):
Alright. It was
Speaker 3 (52:51):
it was interesting it was interesting to share about
myself that way.
Roger (52:56):
The reason we go through this is the values that you have
are the beginning of a threadand your goals should be how you
express your values in creatingthe life. Right? You wanna
create a life that is congruentwith the the values that you
(53:17):
have that are important to you.So it's a good filtering
mechanism for choices and forreflection of am I living what I
say is important to me. Becauseit's so easy to get off track in
this wild wild world of ours.
So that's the reason we starthere, and I'm glad that you
(53:39):
leaned into it because it's, youknow, it's very easy just to
wanna get to the numbers.
Speaker 3 (53:44):
Oh, no. Like I told you, Roger, I've listened to the
program from episode 1. I didn'tstart till COVID, but I listened
from episode 1 all the waythrough. And and I I appreciated
your podcast because it doesn'tjust focus on the numbers. It
focuses on all of life, youknow, health, you know, what you
(54:07):
do with your time, your money,what you do with your money.
But, I mean, it's full circle.It's the 360 view of retirement
as opposed to just the numberthe number the number, which is
what I think we easily can getlost in.
Roger (54:21):
Yeah. It's much more trackable. So next week, we're
gonna talk about goals. Soundgood?
Speaker 3 (54:26):
Sounds good.
Roger (54:28):
On your marks, get set. And we're off to take a baby
step you can take in the next 7days to not just rock
retirement, but rock your life.Alright. In the next 7 days,
very simple. Grab the valuesworksheet@rogerwhitney.comunderfreeresourcesorinour6shotSaturdayemail,
(54:52):
and go through the exercise andgive your first shot or revise
your current values to establishwhat your top ten values are in
life.
If you are married, have yourspouse do it separately and then
change papers, read them, anddiscuss them. Now we are going
(55:15):
to continue to read mygrandfather's log from World War
2 into the record. Missionnumber 112, July 16, 1944. Ship
number 9 16, sortie 8. Went toVienna, Austria and as expected
encountered lots of flak andfighters.
(55:36):
Target hit with fair result,flak heavy, concentrated, and
accurate. Carried 22 150 poundbombs. Mission was 6 hours 35
minutes. Altitude, 21,300 feet.Short and sweet today, Zig was.
He was probably tired. Happy NewYear, folks. We'll chat next
(55:58):
week. The opinions voiced inthis podcast are for general
information only and notintended to provide specific
advice or recommendations forany individual. All performance
reference is historical and doesnot guarantee future results.
All indices are unmanaged andcannot be invested in directly.
Make sure you consult yourlegal, tax, or financial adviser
(56:21):
before making any decisions.
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