October 21, 2024 • 31 mins
The early church thrived during times of persecution, often finding renewed strength and growth through challenges, which is relevant to today’s shifting church dynamics. In this episode of Revealing Jesus with Christina Perera, host Christina Perera is joined by Dr. John Jackson, President of Jessup University, to explore the dynamic shifts happening in the body of Christ and how these shifts are transforming how we practice our faith. Setting the stage with enriching dialogues, Christina and Dr. Jackson examine the role of grace, the impact of persecution on church growth, and the importance of fostering genuine relationships with Jesus over mere religious observance.
The conversation delves into the evolving landscape of modern Christianity, particularly among generations like Gen Z and Millennials, who are seeking authentic encounters with God rather than traditional religious programs. Throughout the discussion, Dr. Jackson shares insights on how the church can adapt to these changing needs, emphasizing the potential for discipleship in everyday settings—whether through small groups, technology, or social interactions outside conventional church environments. The episode underscores the church’s need to harness each generation’s unique contributions to reveal Jesus in today's world effectively.
"Are we really making faithful followers of Jesus? Are we taking babies? Are we helping to make babies in Jesus, grow them up to be sons and daughters, and then growing them up to be fathers and mothers who are reproducing in the faith?" -Dr. John Jackson Listen to the end for prayer.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Revealing Jesus! Are you hungry to learn more about our beautiful Savior Jesus?
(00:06):
I am your host, Christina Perera, lover of Jesus, apostolic leader, licensed and ordained
minister, author, podcaster, and Kingdom Party planner. Did you know that the Bible declares
that grace and peace are multiplied to us in the knowledge of Jesus? And that simply
means the more we learn about our beautiful Savior, the more we will experience all He
(00:30):
died to give us. Join me for all things the King and his Kingdom, including revelatory
teaching, interviews with Bible ministers, media leaders, authors, and more. Come discover
the beauty of God displayed all across the body of Christ. Together we are revealing
more of Jesus to a hurting world today.
(00:58):
Hey everybody and thanks so much for tuning into this week's episode of Revealing Jesus
with Christina Perera. I am your host Christina and I'm so excited to have you with me here
today. I hope and I pray that you are doing well right where you are and enjoying the
continuously flowing favor of grace pouring from our beautiful Savior and Father in Heaven.
(01:20):
I've got a great show for you today. I have an amazing leader in the body of Christ with
me back here on the podcast. We met a couple of months ago when he released his book called
Grace Ambassador and we just had a wonderful connection in the spirit. He is the president
of Jessup University. Please help me welcome back Dr. John Jackson.
(01:44):
Hey, thank you so much Christina and I just love you. I love your show. I love the phrase
revealing Jesus. Isn't that what we all want to be about as his sons and daughters? What
a beautiful, beautiful thing. So what a great thing to be with you and to be with your extended
family.
Amen. Amen. Well, you know, when the Lord told me to do this, you know, he said, Go
(02:07):
call it revealing Jesus, do teaching testimonies and interviews. And so I was like, Oh, that's
such a brilliant title. But then I was really thinking about, you know, my story and how
I got here and I was like, Oh man, that's why you picked that. He's so brilliant. Even
when we don't know what we're doing, he knows what we're doing. Right.
(02:29):
And it is true. And I love the way you're even saying that. Like we have a story, we
have a life experience and he's guiding us. And sometimes we don't know exactly the why.
Like why is he telling me to do this? Why is he telling me to go there? Say yes to this,
say no to that. But ultimately that's revealed. And if you're anything like me, sometimes
I have to look back and go, Oh, that's what that was about. In the moment. I don't really
(02:52):
understand it all, but that's just his faithfulness. He's such a good, good father. He would, you
know, like the scripture says, who of you, if your child asked for a piece of bread would
give him a stone. You know, he's a good father. He gives us good things up even in the challenges
of life.
Yeah. So good. You know, it's amazing. So this season in my life over the last year
(03:15):
has really been a look back and it's been like a 2020 vision. You know, it was like,
Oh, you were doing this here. Oh, this happened because of this. And it's so interesting.
You know, I was really praying and thinking about what we would talk about today. And
I feel like we're coming into this point in the body of Christ where things are drifting
(03:37):
and we are now stepping into the new and the new ways that we're doing things can't be
done like we, we did them in the past. Let's talk about that. I feel like that's where
we're going today.
Well, thank you. Wow. I didn't know in advance. I'm glad you didn't warn me in advance because
I might have prepared a lot. Christina, you may not know this, that I have always been
(03:57):
kind of a history buff and I'm not an expert. I get dates wrong. So please forgive me in
advance if I misstate a date, but I study a lot of history and especially early church
history. So let me give you just one thing. As soon as you said that, I thought, wow,
the early church first, let's call it 300 years, suffered massive persecution. Yeah.
(04:21):
When the church experienced what could be called great favor under Constantine and after
350 or 400 AD, they had really great favor. What's interesting, Christina, is that it
was when the church experienced great persecution that it flourished and grew and expanded and
new ways of doing things, house churches and, and missionary expansion. It's when the church
(04:46):
was in favor, quote, I say that in quote, and it kind of got that in some ways, most
people look back and say, ah, that was actually a time of drift. Yeah. So here in the United
States, I couldn't agree with you more. What worked in the 1970s and 80s and 2000s, we're
in a new season. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. You know, I really feel like this new generation
(05:11):
and, and there's no mistake that, you know, he sent me out here, um, out into media ministry
where most of Gen Z millennials and even some of Gen X just simply isn't even stepping foot
in churches anymore. And, you know, as a, as a millennial, I understand their frustration.
You know, I grew up in the church, I grew up in the Baptist church and I really came
(05:35):
to a place in my life where, uh, it was either live a real faith or die. Um, and I don't
know if I've shared all of my healing story with you, but, um, sometimes I share bits
and pieces as the Holy spirit leads, but I really came to a place where, you know, it
was either God is real and he's going to show up and he's going to heal me and save me and
(05:56):
keep me alive, or I am going to just perish. And unfortunately, so much of my generation
has seen a religion and not a relationship with a real living and loving Jesus that they
are, they are not stepping foot into that. They're not interested in programs. They're
(06:16):
not interested in smoke and lights and mirrors, but do you have the power and anointing of
the Holy spirit? Have you been with Jesus? That's what I'm in. Oh, Christina, I'm having
church right now. This is so, this is so good. Um, many, many years ago, we started a church
up in the Carson city area of Nevada and we didn't think about this in advance, but we
(06:39):
said this, we're, we're, we're starting a church for people, uh, who don't like church,
but who want to know about Jesus. And as the years went by, we were shocked at how many
people were what I would call de-churched. They had an experience with church religion,
but they left religion, but they were still, their hearts longing was, is there a God?
(07:02):
Is he real? Does he know about me? Does he care about me? Does he have anything to say
about my life? And they did want to learn the Bible, but they wanted to learn the Bible
in a way that would make sense in their every day. They wanted to learn about the Bible
in a way that they could have clarity. So what I would say to you is this, let me start
(07:24):
with the church. I love the church. I tell people all the time. I love Jesus. I love
family and I love the church. But now the church has many different forms. So let me
talk about the church. One of my burdens for today's generation, Gen Z, Gen X, millennials
is, is this issue. Are we really making faithful followers of Jesus? Are we taking babies or
(07:51):
helping to make babies in Jesus, grow them up to be sons and daughters, and then growing
them up to be fathers and mothers who are reproducing in the faith. I'm talking about
in the faith. And I think you're right, Christina, so many of our churches and I led those churches
and I grew up Baptist. So I know what being involved in church, you know, three diets
(08:11):
a week and all that is. But so many times you can do that and your heart's a million
miles away from the father. You really have a relationship. You have a religious structure
in your life and COVID by the way, COVID was a great revealer, but it was also a great
accelerator. It accelerated the recognition of many people. I don't want to go to church.
I can just maybe periodically podcast or watch something on streaming video and that's call
(08:36):
it good. And I think it's a crisis, but I actually think it's a John 15 moment where
Jesus is pruning and saying, what's real? What's real relationship look like? Not smoke
and mirrors. And again, I'm not anti large church. That's right. I am saying what's real.
What relationship with Jesus? What is it to reveal Jesus, not produce a church?
(08:59):
Yeah. And it's so important. I think that we're listening to this generation because
I think each generation carries keys of revealing something of God. Each generation is hungry
for something of God and each generation pursues God in its own unique way. And so we can learn
(09:21):
something both from each side of the equation, both from the older generations and both from
the younger generations. And that's the way God's family works. You know, see, God doesn't
just discount somebody just because they're young. There's so many times in the Bible
where people come in and God says, but I know you're young. I know you're the least in your
(09:42):
house. I know you're a woman. I know you're this. I know you're that. But God says, this
is who you are. This is who you're created to be in me. And I think we have to realize
that God and His sovereignty has the right to create and make as He sees fit. And so
when we're coming in and we're engaging with all of these different generations and all
(10:04):
these different backgrounds and things, we need to honor what God has made.
Christina, I just feel like you deposited gold that I hope your listeners will maybe
I don't know if there's a way to rewind, but can just listen to that. God has made a deposit.
He's put keys in every generation. We need to honor and respect. So somebody like me,
(10:27):
who's a sorry, baby boomer, I need to look at Gen Z. I need to look at millennials. I
need to look at Gen X. And I need to say, what can I learn? What can I receive? What
does the father have for me from my brothers and sisters who are at a different age and
stage of journey? Just like I need to keep looking at my elders. I'm 63. I have elders
(10:51):
who are in their seventies and eighties and beyond. I need to still be able to receive
from them what the Lord has entrusted to them. I was looking at Acts 22 this morning because
I'm going to be teaching this weekend and they asked me to go through that passage.
The apostle Paul retells his testimony. He has all kinds of experience. You know, his
Pharisee of Pharisees and all that. He has an encounter with Jesus. Then he ends up developing
(11:17):
his testimony and then he faces opposition and he remains faithful. So that's real quickly
my five points in that chapter of how the chapter plays out. So what I'm thinking of
is this. Somebody's listening to your podcast and they feel like I'm the least of my family.
I'm the least of just as you said. But I also want to talk to other people. There's somebody
(11:39):
listening to this right now, Christina, who's at the top of their game. They got a great
business they're running. They've got a they're the CEO of something. They're they're making
great strides, got favors happening on them. Can I just tell you this? That favor, that
expansion, that growth is not an accident. It's a stewardship. God is putting into your
(12:00):
hands, whatever he's put in your hands, little or much, one talent, two talents, five talents
using that parable, whatever he's put in your hands, you're accountable for what he's put
in your hands. And some of you have great opportunity that you wonder why that's there.
It's because the father has opened those doors for you. So good. That's so good. You know,
I, you know, I get kind of frustrated when I start seeing ads on Facebook for church
(12:24):
growth. And for me, the number one thing of church growth and expansion, I think you hit
on it, I think is persecution was key to that. And so right now, I believe that we are going
to be seeing even more expansion because of the persecution. And you know, what does God
say? Be faithful, patient and affliction, faithful and persecution. You know, these
(12:47):
are these things that you were just talking about. What are we being faithful and what
do we have? And the truth is, and Jesus spoke this to me many, many years ago, he said,
you cannot receive from what you do not honor. And so there's a, there's a, there's a melding
of generations happening there. There's a restoration of honor that's happening right
(13:07):
now. And then there's a, there's a coming together in unity right now, because what's
coming on the church is greater and greater persecution. But if we have eyes to see and
ears to hear, just like you said, God can use this to drive our tent pegs further and
further and further so that we can just like the word in Isaiah says, make room for more
(13:32):
spiritual children. I was reading in that verse the other day in the amplified and it
said actually to make your tent larger is to bring room for more spiritual children.
Wow. Such a good word again. I just, I'm resonating with all kinds of things. I know people in
the audience have probably had this experience. You go into a really dark room and you can't
(13:55):
find the light switch. So if you have your iPhone or your Android with you, you turn
the flashlight on and you know, as soon as you do that, the darkness of the room, you
can't conquer that light that you've got. At least you can see in that space. The darker
the darkness gets, the brighter the light of Christ shines. And you know, that Matthew
five passage says, what good is a light if you put it under a bushel? What good is salt
(14:17):
if it's lost its saltiness? So Christina, I resonate with you. I don't want persecution.
I want an easy life. I want like, Hey, everything's good every day. It's up and to the right.
That's what I want. But if and when persecution comes, actually the body of Christ is going
to be refined. It's going to be rejuvenated and restored. And I think we're going to see
(14:41):
multiplication. We're going to see more disciples. Just like you said, expanding your tent is
making room for more sons and daughters, more fathers and mothers, more babies. And think
about this, Christina, you know, this we've talked enough, you know, discipleship doesn't
happen in mass. We don't make disciples, you know, a thousand at a time. We make them in
(15:03):
relationships with small, meaningful encounters. Well, that's going to take a lot of people
like you and me saying, I'm willing to pour my life into these two or three people. I'm
willing to have my small group. I'm willing to, I think it's a little controversial. I
think church is about ready to break out. I don't think it's going to be, I think I'm
not saying big churches will go away. I think there's going to be great big churches, but
(15:26):
I won't be shocked if the next season with persecution is churches meeting in homes,
churches meeting in, sorry, churches meeting in bars, church meeting in restaurants, in
workplaces. I think that ecclesia, that's the, the biblical word for gathering. The
ecclesia is going to look like the first century where sometimes they had to meet in secret,
(15:49):
you know, think about COVID crazy, crazy, crazy, but COVID actually revealed, you know
what? We can actually do church in a small group in our neighborhood. We can actually
meet at work in these settings. So I don't know, I'm, I'm, I'm expecting, I'm leaning
forward saying, Lord, what are you going to do with your people? Amen. Amen. I think it's
(16:10):
amazing. And I, I love that when the Holy Spirit shows up, he starts stirring things
up within each person. And we're seeing that happen right here. And I always see that on
revealing Jesus, but that's the way the early church worked. They came and they came together
and the Holy Spirit was moving so much and it was encouraging so many believers. They
(16:32):
were flowing in the gifts of the spirit so much so that the apostle Paul had to come
in and say, Hey, let's do this in an orderly fashion. Let's not shut down the gifts, but
let's do this in an orderly fashion where we're taking turns and we're waiting. And
you know, if one has a word of knowledge, let them stand up. If one has a word of prophecy,
let them stand up. You know, the way that we've done church in the past, where we've
(16:53):
come through this Calvinistic style of preaching and teaching where we come and we do worship
and then we do an offering and then we sit and somebody gives the message, you know,
there's nothing wrong with giving messages. And we have anointed preachers and teachers
who are designed to give messages, but God has so equipped the body of Christ that we
can no longer afford for each and every one of us to sit on the sidelines and keep our
(17:15):
holy mouths shut when the spirit of God himself says that they will all be taught by Jesus.
Come on, girl. Come on, come on. So you got to, you have to let me say this. So Ephesians
four, fivefold ministry. Why do they exist? You know, apostles and prophets, evangelists,
pastors, why do they exist? To equip people for the work of ministry. That fivefold ministry
(17:39):
does not exist for the platform. It exists for equipping. Now, let me say this. This
will panic some people. I know a lot of people are nervous about signs and wonders, nervous
about the first Corinthians passage and being disorderly and God's got to order and of peace,
not of chaos. Yep, yep, yep. I'm with you. Let me ask you this. What if signs and wonders
(18:00):
happen in groups of 10 to 12? Or I'm praying over somebody who I just met or who is in
my neighborhood even that I know pretty well, but I'm praying for them to be healed. What
if healings happen like that? Not in big stadium events. I'm not opposed. Not in big church
gatherings. I'm not opposed. But what if signs and wonders happen with everyday believers
(18:23):
doing everyday works of Jesus in everyday settings? Amen. Not to get back to that. When
I wrote the book, Grace Ambassador, my whole goal was everyday discipleship, a second
reformation happening where it's not just grace received, which again, I honor and grateful
for what happened in the 1500s as we clarified that. But I'm passionate about grace distributed.
(18:49):
What is it like? So I've been praying for servers in restaurants. I think we talked
about this before. I've been praying for servers in restaurants and have seen people weep.
I've seen people come to the Lord. We've prayed for physical healing. It can happen
in your everyday as you walk around with the spirit of Jesus inside of you. Amen. Amen.
And you know, I'm so with you. I'm so glad you said you don't discount any way that God
(19:12):
wants to move. If he wants to move in stadiums, so be it. If he wants to move next door, so
be it. If he wants to move on a podcast, so be it. You know, I'm one of the ones who says,
okay, Lord, however you want, here I am, whatever you want to do, whatever you want to say.
And you know, if we're operating in like that, you see grace is always designed to bring
(19:35):
us into relationship, into the grace of God, into the mercy of God, into the free flowing
favor of God, into the anointing of God, into the gifts of God. But from there, we take
what God has given us and we freely give and see so many in the church and the local church,
they've shut down, they've shut down things. They've shut down the grace, the charisma,
(20:00):
the free flowing grace of God, of the spirit out of fear, out of religion, out of control.
And people have walked away in desperation and hunger. And so if we have eyes to see
and ears to hear, we've been know that God is not only wanting to reach people through
these things, but he's wanting to love people. He's wanting to bring people into wholeness,
(20:23):
into fruitfulness. And so without the grace, without the gifts, without the fivefold, we
are missing opportunities to minister to people, to speak directly into people's lives. You
know, I've been in situations where people are so hungry. In this testimony, I love what
you were talking about, sharing it outside the four walls of the church, because I am
(20:44):
a huge believer in that. And so one day I was actually getting my husband's oil changed
in his car. And I was in the car.
What a good life. Way to go.
He doesn't realize how blessed he is, but I pray every day.
Most men do not. Most husbands do not, by the way. I always say, by the way, I'm starting
a national trend. It's catching on. I always introduce my wife as my better two thirds.
(21:10):
So I'm starting a trend now so that men, men, you catch this and eventually give John Jackson
credit because you'll get husband points for this. If you will introduce your wife as your
better two thirds instead of your better half, your better two thirds, people will get that.
Oh, he recognizes she's a blessing. She's a gift. So anyway, go ahead. You're getting
your husband's oil change.
Yes. So I was getting my husband's oil changed and I was in the Jiffy Lube and because I
(21:35):
am who I am, right?
Yep.
You know, I felt like the Lord was asking me to pray for this man who was experiencing
knee pain in the Jiffy Lube. And so I went over to him against all fear and against all
judgment and everything. I went over to him and I said, I feel like the Lord is asking
(21:58):
me to pray for your knee for healing. Are you experiencing knee pain? He says, I am.
I said, okay, would you like me to pray for healing? And he goes, no, thanks. And I kid
you not, the TV in this Jiffy Lube just happened to be turned to a Christian broadcasting station.
And I don't remember if it was TBN or CBN. I think it might have been CBN. But the host
(22:23):
of that TV program in that moment looked at the audience and said, God is healing someone's
knee right now. That man turned and looked at me and he says, come pray for my knee right
now.
And when I did, the Holy Spirit erupted in that Jiffy Lube. Not only did I end up praying
(22:44):
for that man's knee, but I ended up prophesying to two people in the waiting room. And then
so I sit down, wait for my car. This man from the back, the shop manager comes and he calls
my name. And I thinking he's going to tell me something about my car, you know, like
it's ready. You need new air filter, whatever, you know, how they try to upsell you. He goes,
(23:10):
whatever you did for them, do it for me now. And so I ended up prophesying to him. And
so if we understand how the gifts and the anointing and the fivefold works, people are
so hungry. And the, I don't know whether these were unchurched people, but they had never
encountered the power of God. They had never encountered prophetic words. They had never
(23:33):
encountered healing before. But, but when people see it, they're hungry.
Yes. Can you let me go, let me go after something that's just, it'll seem like an adjunct to
this, but it, it's so spot on. I just have a burden for this. Christina, the prophetic
words you're talking, words of exhortation, words of encouragement. Yes, prophetic words
(23:57):
can be revelation, but I've learned so much from my wife and some people around me that,
that are deep in the prophetic that you always think, oh, I'm going to tell you what's going
to happen three weeks from now on Tuesday. And 99% of the time prophetic words are words
of exhortation or, or encouragement. But I want to say one other thing. You were in a
(24:17):
jiffy loop. Now let me say somebody's listening to you today. Somebody's listening right now
who works in the tech industry and is struggling with how do I use AI, artificial intelligence?
What about machine learning? What about virtual reality? What about augmented reality and
all these technologies that I barely understand? I'm telling you right now, the Lord has placed
(24:38):
you specifically, sir or ma'am, He's placed you specifically in that industry to use that
tool for His glory. Somebody listening to this broadcast is an entrepreneur. They're
a business person and God's given them favor and their business is expanding and all that.
That is a tool to be used for His glory in the everyday. If you're in arts media entertainment,
(25:03):
like you, what got me thinking about this was you talk about media. The Lord told you
what to name this podcast. He told you what, what to begin to share with testimony. That's
His assignment to use modern media. This didn't exist 20 years ago. 30 to use modern media
for His glory. You can reach thousands and tens and thousands of people that you would
(25:27):
never reach before. So I just, I don't want us as believers to live in fear. I want us
to live in faith in the everyday. And is it scary to pray for somebody? First of all,
a man. Second of all, in a Jiffy Lube. And third of all, about something very specific,
His knee. Yes, yes, yes. Scared to death. On the other hand, Jesus in that particular
(25:52):
setting so blessed and firm that He had a television studio, announced it online. The
guy's initial resistance fades comes and then you get to pray for multiple other people,
including the shop manager. What? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I mean, he's so faithful. And so I,
you know, I don't even look at the fear to overcome, you know, and I always tell people
(26:16):
this. It's just like getting past the waves. You ever go out in the ocean, and the first
wave is not so bad. Then the second wave comes and then the third wave could really knock
you down, right? But once you get past the place where the waves break, it's just smooth,
isn't it? So good. That's such a great analogy. I just had the amazing privilege to be in
(26:36):
Hawaii. I hadn't been there for 16 years to this this spot. And so I got the chance to
be there. And you're right. It's the first second wave. Once you get past, though, the
first, second, third wave, now you're out where it's it's more calm. You're past the
break point. And that's where a lot of us are. We're at the break point of life. We're
like, I can't do this. But once we get past that, we get to be in that place of calm and
(27:00):
peace. Wow. Amen. So good. Well, this has been so much fun. Will you pray for our listeners
before we go today? I will. I will. Lord Jesus, I come before you right now. Sisters, brothers,
older men, older women, younger men, younger women, whoever is listening to this broadcast,
(27:20):
whoever is whatever generation they represent, whatever their socioeconomics, if it male,
female Jesus, I just come before you on behalf of each listener. I pray, Holy Spirit, that
you would so infuse them right now with clarity, that clarity, that you love them deeply, that
you have demonstrated your love so richly in Jesus dying on the cross for them. And
(27:44):
I thank you that Jesus did not stay in the tomb, but he was raised from the dead and
that he was able to distribute the power of the Holy Spirit. So now, Lord Jesus, I come
before you. And I pray, as Romans 15 13 says, that people would be full of joy and peace
as they trust in you because you are the God of hope who wants them to overflow with hope
(28:05):
through the power of the Holy Spirit. So, Lord, on this revealing Jesus podcast, I pray, Holy
Spirit, that Jesus Christ would have been revealed today and that we would say no to
religious symbols and rituals and institutions that are empty of meaning. And we would say
yes to a vital life-giving, transforming relationship with you, Jesus, and that when the enemy comes
(28:32):
and he will, when the enemy comes and he tries to steal, kill and destroy, we will say no,
we are sons and daughters of the Most High. We are pressing into Jesus. He is our peace.
He is our covering. He is our life. He is our hope. And Lord, I want to close this by
praying for Christina. I pray, Holy Spirit, that you would continue to give her boldness
(28:52):
and courage and faith and perseverance so that she could end up fulfilling your assignment
in her life. And that's for all of us, Lord, that we will fulfill. I love how David, when
David died, he had fulfilled the purpose of God in his generation. Lord, may that be so
for Christina, for me, and for every one of us. May we fulfill your purposes in this generation.
(29:17):
Amen.
Amen. Amen. Thank you so much for your prayer. And thank you so much for being here with
me today. I just love your heart.
Thank you. I love yours as well. You minister to me every time we're together.
Oh, fine. Yay. You too.
Thank you.
Well, I hope and I pray today's episode has blessed you. I will have links from today's
(29:40):
broadcast in the show notes under Revealing Jesus with Christina Perera, wherever you
get your podcasts. And of course, I will have links for you to connect with Dr. John Jackson,
of course, our special guest. Until next week, may grace and peace be multiplied to you in
the knowledge of Jesus. God bless.
(30:00):
I sincerely hope and pray today's episode has blessed you. Now it's your turn to continue
the conversation. We are all evangelists of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Like this episode,
rate it, share it with a friend. If it's impacted your life, let them know that you
want it to do the same and theirs help spread the word of the good news of Jesus. Subscribe
(30:23):
to the mailing list and get episodes, articles, downloads and more sent right to you. Link
in show notes or just text Jesus to 1-833-815-7778. Again, that's Jesus 1-833-815-7778. We would
(30:45):
love to connect with you on social media. You can find us at Christina Perera Ministries
on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. Until next week, may grace and peace be multiplied
to you in the knowledge of Jesus. God bless.
Welcome to Revealing Jesus! Are you hungry to learn more about our beautiful Savior Jesus?
(00:06):
I am your host, Christina Perera, lover of Jesus, apostolic leader, licensed and ordained
minister, author, podcaster, and Kingdom Party planner. Did you know that the Bible declares
that grace and peace are multiplied to us in the knowledge of Jesus? And that simply
means the more we learn about our beautiful Savior, the more we will experience all He
(00:30):
died to give us. Join me for all things the King and his Kingdom, including revelatory
teaching, interviews with Bible ministers, media leaders, authors, and more. Come discover
the beauty of God displayed all across the body of Christ. Together we are revealing
more of Jesus to a hurting world today.
(00:58):
Hey everybody and thanks so much for tuning into this week's episode of Revealing Jesus
with Christina Perera. I am your host Christina and I'm so excited to have you with me here
today. I hope and I pray that you are doing well right where you are and enjoying the
continuously flowing favor of grace pouring from our beautiful Savior and Father in Heaven.
(01:20):
I've got a great show for you today. I have an amazing leader in the body of Christ with
me back here on the podcast. We met a couple of months ago when he released his book called
Grace Ambassador and we just had a wonderful connection in the spirit. He is the president
of Jessup University. Please help me welcome back Dr. John Jackson.
(01:44):
Hey, thank you so much Christina and I just love you. I love your show. I love the phrase
revealing Jesus. Isn't that what we all want to be about as his sons and daughters? What
a beautiful, beautiful thing. So what a great thing to be with you and to be with your extended
family.
Amen. Amen. Well, you know, when the Lord told me to do this, you know, he said, Go
(02:07):
call it revealing Jesus, do teaching testimonies and interviews. And so I was like, Oh, that's
such a brilliant title. But then I was really thinking about, you know, my story and how
I got here and I was like, Oh man, that's why you picked that. He's so brilliant. Even
when we don't know what we're doing, he knows what we're doing. Right.
(02:29):
And it is true. And I love the way you're even saying that. Like we have a story, we
have a life experience and he's guiding us. And sometimes we don't know exactly the why.
Like why is he telling me to do this? Why is he telling me to go there? Say yes to this,
say no to that. But ultimately that's revealed. And if you're anything like me, sometimes
I have to look back and go, Oh, that's what that was about. In the moment. I don't really
(02:52):
understand it all, but that's just his faithfulness. He's such a good, good father. He would, you
know, like the scripture says, who of you, if your child asked for a piece of bread would
give him a stone. You know, he's a good father. He gives us good things up even in the challenges
of life.
Yeah. So good. You know, it's amazing. So this season in my life over the last year
(03:15):
has really been a look back and it's been like a 2020 vision. You know, it was like,
Oh, you were doing this here. Oh, this happened because of this. And it's so interesting.
You know, I was really praying and thinking about what we would talk about today. And
I feel like we're coming into this point in the body of Christ where things are drifting
(03:37):
and we are now stepping into the new and the new ways that we're doing things can't be
done like we, we did them in the past. Let's talk about that. I feel like that's where
we're going today.
Well, thank you. Wow. I didn't know in advance. I'm glad you didn't warn me in advance because
I might have prepared a lot. Christina, you may not know this, that I have always been
(03:57):
kind of a history buff and I'm not an expert. I get dates wrong. So please forgive me in
advance if I misstate a date, but I study a lot of history and especially early church
history. So let me give you just one thing. As soon as you said that, I thought, wow,
the early church first, let's call it 300 years, suffered massive persecution. Yeah.
(04:21):
When the church experienced what could be called great favor under Constantine and after
350 or 400 AD, they had really great favor. What's interesting, Christina, is that it
was when the church experienced great persecution that it flourished and grew and expanded and
new ways of doing things, house churches and, and missionary expansion. It's when the church
(04:46):
was in favor, quote, I say that in quote, and it kind of got that in some ways, most
people look back and say, ah, that was actually a time of drift. Yeah. So here in the United
States, I couldn't agree with you more. What worked in the 1970s and 80s and 2000s, we're
in a new season. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. You know, I really feel like this new generation
(05:11):
and, and there's no mistake that, you know, he sent me out here, um, out into media ministry
where most of Gen Z millennials and even some of Gen X just simply isn't even stepping foot
in churches anymore. And, you know, as a, as a millennial, I understand their frustration.
You know, I grew up in the church, I grew up in the Baptist church and I really came
(05:35):
to a place in my life where, uh, it was either live a real faith or die. Um, and I don't
know if I've shared all of my healing story with you, but, um, sometimes I share bits
and pieces as the Holy spirit leads, but I really came to a place where, you know, it
was either God is real and he's going to show up and he's going to heal me and save me and
(05:56):
keep me alive, or I am going to just perish. And unfortunately, so much of my generation
has seen a religion and not a relationship with a real living and loving Jesus that they
are, they are not stepping foot into that. They're not interested in programs. They're
(06:16):
not interested in smoke and lights and mirrors, but do you have the power and anointing of
the Holy spirit? Have you been with Jesus? That's what I'm in. Oh, Christina, I'm having
church right now. This is so, this is so good. Um, many, many years ago, we started a church
up in the Carson city area of Nevada and we didn't think about this in advance, but we
(06:39):
said this, we're, we're, we're starting a church for people, uh, who don't like church,
but who want to know about Jesus. And as the years went by, we were shocked at how many
people were what I would call de-churched. They had an experience with church religion,
but they left religion, but they were still, their hearts longing was, is there a God?
(07:02):
Is he real? Does he know about me? Does he care about me? Does he have anything to say
about my life? And they did want to learn the Bible, but they wanted to learn the Bible
in a way that would make sense in their every day. They wanted to learn about the Bible
in a way that they could have clarity. So what I would say to you is this, let me start
(07:24):
with the church. I love the church. I tell people all the time. I love Jesus. I love
family and I love the church. But now the church has many different forms. So let me
talk about the church. One of my burdens for today's generation, Gen Z, Gen X, millennials
is, is this issue. Are we really making faithful followers of Jesus? Are we taking babies or
(07:51):
helping to make babies in Jesus, grow them up to be sons and daughters, and then growing
them up to be fathers and mothers who are reproducing in the faith. I'm talking about
in the faith. And I think you're right, Christina, so many of our churches and I led those churches
and I grew up Baptist. So I know what being involved in church, you know, three diets
(08:11):
a week and all that is. But so many times you can do that and your heart's a million
miles away from the father. You really have a relationship. You have a religious structure
in your life and COVID by the way, COVID was a great revealer, but it was also a great
accelerator. It accelerated the recognition of many people. I don't want to go to church.
I can just maybe periodically podcast or watch something on streaming video and that's call
(08:36):
it good. And I think it's a crisis, but I actually think it's a John 15 moment where
Jesus is pruning and saying, what's real? What's real relationship look like? Not smoke
and mirrors. And again, I'm not anti large church. That's right. I am saying what's real.
What relationship with Jesus? What is it to reveal Jesus, not produce a church?
(08:59):
Yeah. And it's so important. I think that we're listening to this generation because
I think each generation carries keys of revealing something of God. Each generation is hungry
for something of God and each generation pursues God in its own unique way. And so we can learn
(09:21):
something both from each side of the equation, both from the older generations and both from
the younger generations. And that's the way God's family works. You know, see, God doesn't
just discount somebody just because they're young. There's so many times in the Bible
where people come in and God says, but I know you're young. I know you're the least in your
(09:42):
house. I know you're a woman. I know you're this. I know you're that. But God says, this
is who you are. This is who you're created to be in me. And I think we have to realize
that God and His sovereignty has the right to create and make as He sees fit. And so
when we're coming in and we're engaging with all of these different generations and all
(10:04):
these different backgrounds and things, we need to honor what God has made.
Christina, I just feel like you deposited gold that I hope your listeners will maybe
I don't know if there's a way to rewind, but can just listen to that. God has made a deposit.
He's put keys in every generation. We need to honor and respect. So somebody like me,
(10:27):
who's a sorry, baby boomer, I need to look at Gen Z. I need to look at millennials. I
need to look at Gen X. And I need to say, what can I learn? What can I receive? What
does the father have for me from my brothers and sisters who are at a different age and
stage of journey? Just like I need to keep looking at my elders. I'm 63. I have elders
(10:51):
who are in their seventies and eighties and beyond. I need to still be able to receive
from them what the Lord has entrusted to them. I was looking at Acts 22 this morning because
I'm going to be teaching this weekend and they asked me to go through that passage.
The apostle Paul retells his testimony. He has all kinds of experience. You know, his
Pharisee of Pharisees and all that. He has an encounter with Jesus. Then he ends up developing
(11:17):
his testimony and then he faces opposition and he remains faithful. So that's real quickly
my five points in that chapter of how the chapter plays out. So what I'm thinking of
is this. Somebody's listening to your podcast and they feel like I'm the least of my family.
I'm the least of just as you said. But I also want to talk to other people. There's somebody
(11:39):
listening to this right now, Christina, who's at the top of their game. They got a great
business they're running. They've got a they're the CEO of something. They're they're making
great strides, got favors happening on them. Can I just tell you this? That favor, that
expansion, that growth is not an accident. It's a stewardship. God is putting into your
(12:00):
hands, whatever he's put in your hands, little or much, one talent, two talents, five talents
using that parable, whatever he's put in your hands, you're accountable for what he's put
in your hands. And some of you have great opportunity that you wonder why that's there.
It's because the father has opened those doors for you. So good. That's so good. You know,
I, you know, I get kind of frustrated when I start seeing ads on Facebook for church
(12:24):
growth. And for me, the number one thing of church growth and expansion, I think you hit
on it, I think is persecution was key to that. And so right now, I believe that we are going
to be seeing even more expansion because of the persecution. And you know, what does God
say? Be faithful, patient and affliction, faithful and persecution. You know, these
(12:47):
are these things that you were just talking about. What are we being faithful and what
do we have? And the truth is, and Jesus spoke this to me many, many years ago, he said,
you cannot receive from what you do not honor. And so there's a, there's a, there's a melding
of generations happening there. There's a restoration of honor that's happening right
(13:07):
now. And then there's a, there's a coming together in unity right now, because what's
coming on the church is greater and greater persecution. But if we have eyes to see and
ears to hear, just like you said, God can use this to drive our tent pegs further and
further and further so that we can just like the word in Isaiah says, make room for more
(13:32):
spiritual children. I was reading in that verse the other day in the amplified and it
said actually to make your tent larger is to bring room for more spiritual children.
Wow. Such a good word again. I just, I'm resonating with all kinds of things. I know people in
the audience have probably had this experience. You go into a really dark room and you can't
(13:55):
find the light switch. So if you have your iPhone or your Android with you, you turn
the flashlight on and you know, as soon as you do that, the darkness of the room, you
can't conquer that light that you've got. At least you can see in that space. The darker
the darkness gets, the brighter the light of Christ shines. And you know, that Matthew
five passage says, what good is a light if you put it under a bushel? What good is salt
(14:17):
if it's lost its saltiness? So Christina, I resonate with you. I don't want persecution.
I want an easy life. I want like, Hey, everything's good every day. It's up and to the right.
That's what I want. But if and when persecution comes, actually the body of Christ is going
to be refined. It's going to be rejuvenated and restored. And I think we're going to see
(14:41):
multiplication. We're going to see more disciples. Just like you said, expanding your tent is
making room for more sons and daughters, more fathers and mothers, more babies. And think
about this, Christina, you know, this we've talked enough, you know, discipleship doesn't
happen in mass. We don't make disciples, you know, a thousand at a time. We make them in
(15:03):
relationships with small, meaningful encounters. Well, that's going to take a lot of people
like you and me saying, I'm willing to pour my life into these two or three people. I'm
willing to have my small group. I'm willing to, I think it's a little controversial. I
think church is about ready to break out. I don't think it's going to be, I think I'm
not saying big churches will go away. I think there's going to be great big churches, but
(15:26):
I won't be shocked if the next season with persecution is churches meeting in homes,
churches meeting in, sorry, churches meeting in bars, church meeting in restaurants, in
workplaces. I think that ecclesia, that's the, the biblical word for gathering. The
ecclesia is going to look like the first century where sometimes they had to meet in secret,
(15:49):
you know, think about COVID crazy, crazy, crazy, but COVID actually revealed, you know
what? We can actually do church in a small group in our neighborhood. We can actually
meet at work in these settings. So I don't know, I'm, I'm, I'm expecting, I'm leaning
forward saying, Lord, what are you going to do with your people? Amen. Amen. I think it's
(16:10):
amazing. And I, I love that when the Holy Spirit shows up, he starts stirring things
up within each person. And we're seeing that happen right here. And I always see that on
revealing Jesus, but that's the way the early church worked. They came and they came together
and the Holy Spirit was moving so much and it was encouraging so many believers. They
(16:32):
were flowing in the gifts of the spirit so much so that the apostle Paul had to come
in and say, Hey, let's do this in an orderly fashion. Let's not shut down the gifts, but
let's do this in an orderly fashion where we're taking turns and we're waiting. And
you know, if one has a word of knowledge, let them stand up. If one has a word of prophecy,
let them stand up. You know, the way that we've done church in the past, where we've
(16:53):
come through this Calvinistic style of preaching and teaching where we come and we do worship
and then we do an offering and then we sit and somebody gives the message, you know,
there's nothing wrong with giving messages. And we have anointed preachers and teachers
who are designed to give messages, but God has so equipped the body of Christ that we
can no longer afford for each and every one of us to sit on the sidelines and keep our
(17:15):
holy mouths shut when the spirit of God himself says that they will all be taught by Jesus.
Come on, girl. Come on, come on. So you got to, you have to let me say this. So Ephesians
four, fivefold ministry. Why do they exist? You know, apostles and prophets, evangelists,
pastors, why do they exist? To equip people for the work of ministry. That fivefold ministry
(17:39):
does not exist for the platform. It exists for equipping. Now, let me say this. This
will panic some people. I know a lot of people are nervous about signs and wonders, nervous
about the first Corinthians passage and being disorderly and God's got to order and of peace,
not of chaos. Yep, yep, yep. I'm with you. Let me ask you this. What if signs and wonders
(18:00):
happen in groups of 10 to 12? Or I'm praying over somebody who I just met or who is in
my neighborhood even that I know pretty well, but I'm praying for them to be healed. What
if healings happen like that? Not in big stadium events. I'm not opposed. Not in big church
gatherings. I'm not opposed. But what if signs and wonders happen with everyday believers
(18:23):
doing everyday works of Jesus in everyday settings? Amen. Not to get back to that. When
I wrote the book, Grace Ambassador, my whole goal was everyday discipleship, a second
reformation happening where it's not just grace received, which again, I honor and grateful
for what happened in the 1500s as we clarified that. But I'm passionate about grace distributed.
(18:49):
What is it like? So I've been praying for servers in restaurants. I think we talked
about this before. I've been praying for servers in restaurants and have seen people weep.
I've seen people come to the Lord. We've prayed for physical healing. It can happen
in your everyday as you walk around with the spirit of Jesus inside of you. Amen. Amen.
And you know, I'm so with you. I'm so glad you said you don't discount any way that God
(19:12):
wants to move. If he wants to move in stadiums, so be it. If he wants to move next door, so
be it. If he wants to move on a podcast, so be it. You know, I'm one of the ones who says,
okay, Lord, however you want, here I am, whatever you want to do, whatever you want to say.
And you know, if we're operating in like that, you see grace is always designed to bring
(19:35):
us into relationship, into the grace of God, into the mercy of God, into the free flowing
favor of God, into the anointing of God, into the gifts of God. But from there, we take
what God has given us and we freely give and see so many in the church and the local church,
they've shut down, they've shut down things. They've shut down the grace, the charisma,
(20:00):
the free flowing grace of God, of the spirit out of fear, out of religion, out of control.
And people have walked away in desperation and hunger. And so if we have eyes to see
and ears to hear, we've been know that God is not only wanting to reach people through
these things, but he's wanting to love people. He's wanting to bring people into wholeness,
(20:23):
into fruitfulness. And so without the grace, without the gifts, without the fivefold, we
are missing opportunities to minister to people, to speak directly into people's lives. You
know, I've been in situations where people are so hungry. In this testimony, I love what
you were talking about, sharing it outside the four walls of the church, because I am
(20:44):
a huge believer in that. And so one day I was actually getting my husband's oil changed
in his car. And I was in the car.
What a good life. Way to go.
He doesn't realize how blessed he is, but I pray every day.
Most men do not. Most husbands do not, by the way. I always say, by the way, I'm starting
a national trend. It's catching on. I always introduce my wife as my better two thirds.
(21:10):
So I'm starting a trend now so that men, men, you catch this and eventually give John Jackson
credit because you'll get husband points for this. If you will introduce your wife as your
better two thirds instead of your better half, your better two thirds, people will get that.
Oh, he recognizes she's a blessing. She's a gift. So anyway, go ahead. You're getting
your husband's oil change.
Yes. So I was getting my husband's oil changed and I was in the Jiffy Lube and because I
(21:35):
am who I am, right?
Yep.
You know, I felt like the Lord was asking me to pray for this man who was experiencing
knee pain in the Jiffy Lube. And so I went over to him against all fear and against all
judgment and everything. I went over to him and I said, I feel like the Lord is asking
(21:58):
me to pray for your knee for healing. Are you experiencing knee pain? He says, I am.
I said, okay, would you like me to pray for healing? And he goes, no, thanks. And I kid
you not, the TV in this Jiffy Lube just happened to be turned to a Christian broadcasting station.
And I don't remember if it was TBN or CBN. I think it might have been CBN. But the host
(22:23):
of that TV program in that moment looked at the audience and said, God is healing someone's
knee right now. That man turned and looked at me and he says, come pray for my knee right
now.
And when I did, the Holy Spirit erupted in that Jiffy Lube. Not only did I end up praying
(22:44):
for that man's knee, but I ended up prophesying to two people in the waiting room. And then
so I sit down, wait for my car. This man from the back, the shop manager comes and he calls
my name. And I thinking he's going to tell me something about my car, you know, like
it's ready. You need new air filter, whatever, you know, how they try to upsell you. He goes,
(23:10):
whatever you did for them, do it for me now. And so I ended up prophesying to him. And
so if we understand how the gifts and the anointing and the fivefold works, people are
so hungry. And the, I don't know whether these were unchurched people, but they had never
encountered the power of God. They had never encountered prophetic words. They had never
(23:33):
encountered healing before. But, but when people see it, they're hungry.
Yes. Can you let me go, let me go after something that's just, it'll seem like an adjunct to
this, but it, it's so spot on. I just have a burden for this. Christina, the prophetic
words you're talking, words of exhortation, words of encouragement. Yes, prophetic words
(23:57):
can be revelation, but I've learned so much from my wife and some people around me that,
that are deep in the prophetic that you always think, oh, I'm going to tell you what's going
to happen three weeks from now on Tuesday. And 99% of the time prophetic words are words
of exhortation or, or encouragement. But I want to say one other thing. You were in a
(24:17):
jiffy loop. Now let me say somebody's listening to you today. Somebody's listening right now
who works in the tech industry and is struggling with how do I use AI, artificial intelligence?
What about machine learning? What about virtual reality? What about augmented reality and
all these technologies that I barely understand? I'm telling you right now, the Lord has placed
(24:38):
you specifically, sir or ma'am, He's placed you specifically in that industry to use that
tool for His glory. Somebody listening to this broadcast is an entrepreneur. They're
a business person and God's given them favor and their business is expanding and all that.
That is a tool to be used for His glory in the everyday. If you're in arts media entertainment,
(25:03):
like you, what got me thinking about this was you talk about media. The Lord told you
what to name this podcast. He told you what, what to begin to share with testimony. That's
His assignment to use modern media. This didn't exist 20 years ago. 30 to use modern media
for His glory. You can reach thousands and tens and thousands of people that you would
(25:27):
never reach before. So I just, I don't want us as believers to live in fear. I want us
to live in faith in the everyday. And is it scary to pray for somebody? First of all,
a man. Second of all, in a Jiffy Lube. And third of all, about something very specific,
His knee. Yes, yes, yes. Scared to death. On the other hand, Jesus in that particular
(25:52):
setting so blessed and firm that He had a television studio, announced it online. The
guy's initial resistance fades comes and then you get to pray for multiple other people,
including the shop manager. What? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I mean, he's so faithful. And so I,
you know, I don't even look at the fear to overcome, you know, and I always tell people
(26:16):
this. It's just like getting past the waves. You ever go out in the ocean, and the first
wave is not so bad. Then the second wave comes and then the third wave could really knock
you down, right? But once you get past the place where the waves break, it's just smooth,
isn't it? So good. That's such a great analogy. I just had the amazing privilege to be in
(26:36):
Hawaii. I hadn't been there for 16 years to this this spot. And so I got the chance to
be there. And you're right. It's the first second wave. Once you get past, though, the
first, second, third wave, now you're out where it's it's more calm. You're past the
break point. And that's where a lot of us are. We're at the break point of life. We're
like, I can't do this. But once we get past that, we get to be in that place of calm and
(27:00):
peace. Wow. Amen. So good. Well, this has been so much fun. Will you pray for our listeners
before we go today? I will. I will. Lord Jesus, I come before you right now. Sisters, brothers,
older men, older women, younger men, younger women, whoever is listening to this broadcast,
(27:20):
whoever is whatever generation they represent, whatever their socioeconomics, if it male,
female Jesus, I just come before you on behalf of each listener. I pray, Holy Spirit, that
you would so infuse them right now with clarity, that clarity, that you love them deeply, that
you have demonstrated your love so richly in Jesus dying on the cross for them. And
(27:44):
I thank you that Jesus did not stay in the tomb, but he was raised from the dead and
that he was able to distribute the power of the Holy Spirit. So now, Lord Jesus, I come
before you. And I pray, as Romans 15 13 says, that people would be full of joy and peace
as they trust in you because you are the God of hope who wants them to overflow with hope
(28:05):
through the power of the Holy Spirit. So, Lord, on this revealing Jesus podcast, I pray, Holy
Spirit, that Jesus Christ would have been revealed today and that we would say no to
religious symbols and rituals and institutions that are empty of meaning. And we would say
yes to a vital life-giving, transforming relationship with you, Jesus, and that when the enemy comes
(28:32):
and he will, when the enemy comes and he tries to steal, kill and destroy, we will say no,
we are sons and daughters of the Most High. We are pressing into Jesus. He is our peace.
He is our covering. He is our life. He is our hope. And Lord, I want to close this by
praying for Christina. I pray, Holy Spirit, that you would continue to give her boldness
(28:52):
and courage and faith and perseverance so that she could end up fulfilling your assignment
in her life. And that's for all of us, Lord, that we will fulfill. I love how David, when
David died, he had fulfilled the purpose of God in his generation. Lord, may that be so
for Christina, for me, and for every one of us. May we fulfill your purposes in this generation.
(29:17):
Amen.
Amen. Amen. Thank you so much for your prayer. And thank you so much for being here with
me today. I just love your heart.
Thank you. I love yours as well. You minister to me every time we're together.
Oh, fine. Yay. You too.
Thank you.
Well, I hope and I pray today's episode has blessed you. I will have links from today's
(29:40):
broadcast in the show notes under Revealing Jesus with Christina Perera, wherever you
get your podcasts. And of course, I will have links for you to connect with Dr. John Jackson,
of course, our special guest. Until next week, may grace and peace be multiplied to you in
the knowledge of Jesus. God bless.
(30:00):
I sincerely hope and pray today's episode has blessed you. Now it's your turn to continue
the conversation. We are all evangelists of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Like this episode,
rate it, share it with a friend. If it's impacted your life, let them know that you
want it to do the same and theirs help spread the word of the good news of Jesus. Subscribe
(30:23):
to the mailing list and get episodes, articles, downloads and more sent right to you. Link
in show notes or just text Jesus to 1-833-815-7778. Again, that's Jesus 1-833-815-7778. We would
(30:45):
love to connect with you on social media. You can find us at Christina Perera Ministries
on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. Until next week, may grace and peace be multiplied
to you in the knowledge of Jesus. God bless.
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