September 23, 2024 • 41 mins
Embracing God’s unconditional love and identity in Christ is key to living a life free from striving and performance. Join Christina Perera as she welcomes back Kyle Winkler, who returns to discuss his new book, "Permission to be Imperfect." In this revelatory episode of Revealing Jesus, Kyle uncovers the transformative power of understanding grace over religious performance. Together, Christina and Kyle explore profound concepts such as the character of God, the impact of renewed minds, and the insidious nature of striving for spiritual perfection.
Kyle emphasizes that many believers struggle with the perception of God as harsh and punitive. He explains how Jesus’ portrayal in the New Testament is the true image of God – one full of grace and truth. Diving deep into the main themes of his book, Kyle and Christina dismantle the myth of self-righteousness and religious law-keeping. Kyle reassures listeners that freedom and transformation come not through personal effort but by embracing the finished work of Christ and understanding one's identity in Him. "The goal of Christianity is not sin management. It’s that nothing can separate you from the love of God." – Kyle Winkler Listen to the end for a powerful prayer.
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Jesus, Bible, Grace, Faith, God, New Testament teachings, Christian podcast, Kingdom of God, Religious performance, Identity in Christ, How to renew your mind, Jesus calms storms not creates them, Permission to be imperfect book, God's unconditional love, Transform by renewing mind
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Revealing Jesus. Are you hungry to learn more about our beautiful Savior Jesus?
(00:06):
I am your host, Christina Perera, lover of Jesus, apostolic leader, licensed and ordained
minister, author, podcaster, and Kingdom Party planner. Did you know that the Bible declares
that grace and peace are multiplied to us in the knowledge of Jesus? And that simply
means the more we learn about our beautiful Savior, the more we will experience all He
(00:30):
died to give us. Join me for all things the King and his Kingdom, including revelatory
teaching, interviews with Bible ministers, media leaders, authors, and more. Come discover
the beauty of God displayed all across the body of Christ. Together we are revealing
more of Jesus to our hurting world today. Specifically, we look at the New Testament
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where Jesus is portraying who God is. Jesus repeatedly says, if you've seen me, you've
seen the Father. Yeah. And that is looking at Him, looking at what He said, looking at
the benefits that we have because of His death and resurrection, His finished work. That
(01:19):
is what renews our mind. The Spirit takes us. The Bible says that, I think it's Ephesians
4.3, that the Spirit renews us and it renews our minds and our attitudes and all of that.
And the Spirit reveals things to us. It takes us to reminders and to seeing truths about
God in the New Testament through the words of Jesus and the New Testament writers. The
(01:43):
Spirit takes us to those reminders so that when we get in that performance mode, that's
what Paul was talking about. There are a lot of people think that when he's saying don't
be conformed to the pattern of the world, he's talking about sin and morality. But really
what he's talking about or talking to was a religious system and a culture that was
trying to appease God and different gods through various sacrifices and performance and rule
(02:07):
keeping and commandment keeping. And he's saying none of that works. What does work.
But before we get started, I want to give a quick shout out to our Christina Perera
Ministries sponsors who help support the mission to unite the body of Christ and fulfill the
great commission with love. A big shout out to Go4Ministries who provides all of our equipment
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for our gospel events. Davis Financial Services who does all of our financial accounting.
Harvest Family Network through which I am licensed and ordained. And Life Changing
Productions who helps put together evangelistic events to reach our city for Jesus. If you
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or your organization are interested in becoming a CPM sponsor, you can find out more information
on our website at ChristinaPerera.org. Do you have a loved one special occasion coming
up and don't know what to get them? Well, now you can sponsor an episode of Revealing
Jesus in their name and you can give them a special dedication message read on air.
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It makes a great gift. To find out more information, just go to ChristinaPerera.org.
Hey everybody and welcome to this episode of Revealing Jesus with Christina Perera.
So I have with me here today a friend who's actually been on the podcast before and he
(03:36):
is a fellow kingdom minister, new covenant minister, and he's got a new book out called
Permission to Be Imperfect. I have with me here today Kyle Winkler. Kyle, welcome back.
Thanks so much, Christina. It is so good to be back with you. Honored to join you again
and how fun to get to take this new step, this adventure with you here going live too.
(04:00):
Thanks for the opportunity. Oh, well, I'm so thrilled and so grateful. You know, you
guys Kyle is so patient and so kind. I can tell he loves Jesus. His fruit is showing.
That's where it comes from. I tell you, it truly is the spirit of the Lord working out
of us for sure. I know I'm so thankful and you know, I think the most amazing thing about
(04:24):
doing Revealing Jesus is I get to talk to people like you from all over the world and
there is this connection in the kingdom and it feels like family and you can recognize
fellow believers and just, oh my gosh, isn't it amazing? It is. I see that so often. It's,
(04:46):
you can meet somebody for the first time and feel like you've known them for a lifetime
and I know that's kind of how it is meeting you as well. The last time and this time,
I think it's been a couple years or so since we chatted last, but it wouldn't feel like
it. And that is just, that's this connection that you were talking about, this spirit connection
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and it unifies the body of Christ. It's a beautiful thing.
It is and it's so beautiful and I think that's one of my favorite things about the kingdom
of God is the unity and the family aspect of it. And I feel like that is so vitally
missing in our culture today and people, especially my generation, you are my generation, we're
(05:30):
older millennials, right? I was 82, you were what?
84. I called myself an old soul millennial. Not a typical millennial, old soul millennial.
Old soul millennial. That means we're old enough to remember the Oregon Trail, right?
Oh boy, that was a great one. Yes. And young enough to be able to work our eye
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button, right? That's right. So the sweet balance, right? We
got the 80s and 90s music as well. Honestly, I feel like this is, I know I'm
going to make myself feel so old right now, but, and I think you actually said this in
your book, I read it this morning, you called it the golden age.
(06:14):
Oh, I did. Yes, it was. Yes. I know my older brothers would debate that. They're like 12
years older than me or so. So their golden age was a decade before, but I think the 90s,
that was it for me. I know. So good. So good. Although I have to
say a lot of it now that I go back and listen to it, I'm like, wow, that is so inappropriate.
(06:36):
Oh yeah. I know. It is true. I could tell you stories back before I knew the Lord of
the songs that I had memorized and things like that. Oh man.
Yeah. Oh yeah. I know. I put on this, this summer's greatest hit playlist the other day
from Amazon and I had to skip like 50% of it because I was like, I can't play that with
(07:00):
my nine year olds. Oh yeah. Some will pop up from time to time
or I'll hear them in stores or restaurants and they do, they take me back to certain
periods in childhood. It's amazing how music can do that, but sometimes I don't want it
to take me back to those places too with some of those songs. But that's why we have this
opportunity to renew our minds, right? Right. Yes. Yes. And it's so beautiful. I actually
(07:26):
really loved reading through your book, permission to be imperfect, how to strive less, stress
less and less. Here it is. Oh, my zoom filter. You can tell that's not my room, right?
The book is disappearing before our very eyes here.
It's coming in and out. It's available now. I swear. Anyway, permission to be imperfect.
(07:51):
And you know, Jesus has this idea that we should all look different and unique and be
beautiful in our own ways. Right? Yes. I love that you say that because I think so many
people and it's been a core message of mine since I began. It's really my message is identity
(08:13):
in Christ. Well, I think there are a lot of people and I was one of them for many years
where we think we get saved and then suddenly we're all supposed to just look and think
and dress and have all the same things on all the same things. And that is cookie cutter
Christianity, which is as naive as it is unbiblical. God created us a certain way with
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personality, a certain style, certain features, and those don't go away. The way God created
you doesn't go away the moment that you said yes to Jesus. No, now you get gifts added
to the way that he created you and you get a redeemed story too. So we are unique people
that have a unique identity in Christ, I like to say. And inside of that is purpose and
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power and peace. If you'll embrace that, which is really what God's love, I think this permission
to be imperfect thing that I talk about is all about. It's allowing you to be the person
that God made you and love. I love that so much. I felt like your book, I think really
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the message in the core and the heart of it was really at trying to dismantle the religious
performance is the impression I got. You got it. I'm glad that came across because
that was really the heart of it. And I got to have some fun with it too, as I dismantled
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some of those things. Right. I think one of the biggest things I think that you mentioned
in there that really stood out, I mean, I feel like this is going to hit home with a
lot of people is seeing God as a harsh, hard, punishing God. Can you talk about that?
(10:07):
Yeah, you know, 75% of people, and I'm not just pulling a stat from wherever, 75% of
people it's been studied somehow believe that God is either angry, critical or distant.
I did. That was the bulk of at least probably the first 16 years of my life until I was
born again at 16 years old. And then even after that, I kind of had this hybrid view
(10:31):
of God that maybe he was, he was loved, but he was also this impossible to please task
master looking to get me back for my every mistake. And people come up with this idea,
it passes the smell test, I often say for people because we do get this impression and
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we do have stories from the Old Testament. And you read 75% of your Bible almost, and
it does, let's be honest, make God to look not all that favorable. There are stories
of punishment and him smiting people and all that type of stuff. But what a lot of people
don't realize is that's not the pure view of God. That was a view that was written by
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people experienced by people that didn't have the full picture of things they were saying
ultimately through a lens of sin, through a lens of sin having not yet been dealt with
and, and a people that were discovering on this path of discovering things with God.
Today though, as it's described in the New Testament, we have the full picture of God.
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Bible says when the time was right, God sent Jesus. And it says that Jesus is the visible
image of the invisible, invisible God. And John even said that here's what he looks like
when the word became flesh and dwelt among us. He said he was God at creation, Jesus
in God one, when he came to earth and dwelt among us, here's what he looked like, full
(12:06):
of grace and truth. That's unconditional love that you can depend upon. And he gives us,
he says grace upon grace upon grace upon grace upon grace. So he's not the angry mad God
that maybe somebody told you he was, or maybe that you read he was in the Old Testament.
No, because of Jesus, he is full of grace and that's what he gives. And that's how we
(12:31):
get to experience him today. You don't have to earn anything from him. He's not asking
you to do anything to please him. He just loves you through and through because you
are his child. Amen. Amen. I love that so much. You know, it's crazy how much that worldview
can infiltrate our thinking about God, the world. And you actually mentioned this in
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your book and I actually preached about this on Sunday. You know, the world has this idea,
especially when it comes to like natural disasters and things they call them acts of God. And
I'm like, what are you talking about? God didn't do it. You know, Jesus wouldn't do
that. I know it's just destroying his character. Yeah. Living here in Florida, I hear it every
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year starting, we're hearing it now actually, because there's a hurricane going out here
in the first of July already. But for the next few months, I'll hear it. Oh, this is
an act of God. Growing up in Missouri, we used to hear the snow storms were acts of
God. So yeah, it does put this culture. It's not even the church world, although the church
world kind of adds to it, but culture itself will tell you that these horrible things that
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are happening in your life, that they are just that acts of God. So what do you think that
does to people? It causes them not to want to have anything to do with him because if
he's going to be somebody that zaps us for anything, then why would I want to be in any
kind of a relationship with him? It's just awful. It really, really destroys God's good
character. Thankfully though, we've got the New Testament, we've got Jesus to restore
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it and show us who he really is. Amen. It reminds me, I can't remember, it was many,
many years ago, but I put this out on Instagram and I thought that I thought it was so good.
I said, the last time I checked my Bible, Jesus calm storms, not created them. Yes.
Oh, that's good. I love it. That's a revelation there. Yeah. That's a tweet. That's good.
(14:25):
I know. Yeah. I should put it on, on Instagram. Yeah. And he came to destroy the works of
the devil, not afflict us with them. Yes. Yeah. So good. So good. So the Bible actually
says that we are to not be conformed to this world, but transformed by the renewing of
our mind. And so Kyle, we renew our mind by reading the words of God, right? Specifically,
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we look at the New Testament where Jesus is portraying who God is. Jesus repeatedly says,
if you've seen me, you've seen the father. Yeah. Isn't that amazing? And that is looking
at him, looking at what he said, looking at the benefits that we have because of his death
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and resurrection, his finished work. That is what renews our mind. The spirit takes
us. The Bible says that, I think it's Ephesians 4, 3, that the spirit renews us and it renews
our minds and our attitudes and all of that. And the spirit reveals things to us. It takes
us to reminders and to seeing truths about God in the New Testament through the words
(15:35):
of Jesus and the New Testament writers. The spirit takes us to those reminders so that
when we get in that performance mode, that's what Paul was talking about there. A lot of
people think that when he's saying don't be conformed to the pattern of the world, he's
talking about sin and morality. But really what he's talking about or talking to was
a religious system and a culture that was trying to appease God and different gods through
(16:00):
various sacrifices and performance and rule keeping and commandment keeping. And he's
saying none of that works. What does work is to be renewed in mind to what Jesus already
did. He already forgave you. He already came to live inside of you. He cleansed you. He
made you whole so that you're enough. Renew your mind to those truths and then the other
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things they just start to work themselves out naturally.
It's like once the sap of the new creation life starts flowing within you, it's like
those dead leaves. They just drop off. It's such a profound way to put it, which you're
known for doing. You're very sweet. The sap. Yes. Love that. Yeah. But it does. It does.
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And so the other thing the Lord's highlighting to me right now is you actually pointed out
in your book, the Holy Spirit, he comes to make known all the things that Christ has
right and has now given to us, right? He comes to convict the world of sin. But you actually
talked about it in your book and I love that you, Dick, it's not that many people talk
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about this. What is the one sin that the Holy Spirit comes to convict the world of Kyle?
Yeah. So many people read that and they think it says sins, plural, as if the Holy Spirit
has come to deal with our in particular sins and over and over and over again to remind
us of them and say shape up or else. And that's not what it's saying. First of all, it says
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the world, so it's not talking about believers in that instance. And this is Jesus, by the
way, speaking. And he's calling the Holy Spirit an advocate, which is somebody that's on your
side. And so he says the advocates going to come and convict the world of its sin. You
got to keep reading. It's not individual sins. It's one. And it's sin. Jesus said is unbelief.
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That's the world's sin is its lack of dependency, belief on Jesus. Yes. And that's it. So what
stands between us now, because Jesus came to take away the sin of the world. And as
Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5 19 on the cross, God reconciled humans to himself, no longer
counts our sins against us. Okay. So the sin issue is a done deal. It was a done deal at
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the cross. The issue now, the only thing that God is working with people on convicting the
world of is getting them to believe in Jesus. That's it. Our salvation does not come down
to sin management or sinlessness. It comes down to faith in Jesus. And that's it. Amen.
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And you know, the amazing thing is the Bible says that the righteous will live by faith
and it's specifically faith in the son of God who loved us and gave himself up for us.
Right? That's it. We've complicated it so much. And I know over the years in various
places I've been and things that I've heard, it was almost like faith was this thing you
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kind of conjured up almost with willpower to get God to make all your dreams come true.
And that's not the saving faith at all. The saving faith is that Jesus did everything
necessary to make you right with God. That you can't do it with your performance, with
your willpower, with your spiritual disciplines. I don't care what you're trying to do, how
good they seem or are. None of that makes you right with God. Jesus made you right with
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God once and for all. And your faith in that, well that's what saves you. That's the saving
faith. That's what it's all about. Amen. Amen. And as we behold Jesus, we are being transformed
from glory to glory, from faith to faith. Isn't it amazing?
Yeah. It is our transformation. Like the word there that Paul uses in the renewal of the
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mind, be transformed, he says, by the renewal of the mind. It's metamorphosis. We think
caterpillar to butterfly. The caterpillar does not go into that cocoon and grunt and
lift a bunch of weights and do all kinds of stuff to try to grow itself. No, it's a natural
thing when it gets in the right environment. And when we're in the right environment, just
as you said, beholding Jesus, relying on his grace, allowing ourselves to be loved unconditionally.
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That does the work of growth in us from glory to glory, strength to strength. It's a beautiful
thing. It's why we don't have to strive to do it. It just happens.
Amen. Amen. I love that so much. You know, I remember back when I was a much younger
Christian, I've been saved since I was seven. So, and I am not how old I am.
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Well, you already told us you were born in 82. So we can do that. Still very young.
For those of you who can't do math, I'm not telling you. But anyway, so I can remember
back when I was a much younger Christian, I really didn't understand the new covenant
and I didn't understand the grace of God. There was so much striving. And I know you
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talked about this in your book and I know so many people are going to be able to relate
to this. And it was interesting. You said something you were, you had this crazy schedule,
right? I think was it, was it Monday? Was spiritual enrichment Tuesday?
Spiritual growth seminar. Tuesday was a Bible study. Wednesday I was a youth leader. Thursday
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small group leader. Friday was intercessory prayer. Saturday and Sunday I was serving
in a church all while working in a church. And that kind of schedule made me worse, not
better. I think I had the worst mood and attitude towards people in that season of my life than
any other time. Yet I was in the church doing the things of God, I thought, more than any
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other time. Thinking that that was, I guess, going to twist God's arm into blessing me
and fixing me and all of that stuff. And like I said, made me worse, not better.
Yeah. And it's so interesting to me because we can do the do, right? Right. But not have
the have, you know? And so, so many times I feel like, you know, when we don't understand
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the new covenant of grace, when we don't understand the finished work and what Jesus has and what
he's accomplished for us, that we're not fighting for these promises. The Lord said this to
me and it was so beautiful. You know, the Bible actually says that we are like treasures,
gems to the Lord. Beautiful stones, precious stones. And the Lord took me into this vision
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and he showed me this vision of me as this huge yellow diamond. And I'm sitting there
in this vision and he's just rolling this diamond in between his hands. And as he does,
I'm watching the light shine off of every facet of this diamond. And he said to me,
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you don't, you reflect the promises. Oh, I love that. You see, when the light shines
off of a precious stone, the refraction produces rainbows. And what are rainbows in the Bible,
according to the fact that we go back to the story of Noah, rainbows often represent promises.
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And you see, because of what Christ has done in us and for us, we now reflect the promises.
And when the light hits us, we shine for Jesus. Oh, that's beautiful. What a vision, what
a revelation there. Oh yeah. That'll preach. Yeah, I mean, it will. I mean, it shifted
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the way I saw and did everything. Yeah, it would shift the way you see people too. If
we all saw people as those diamonds reflecting God's promises. I mean, we're all made in
the image of God anyway. And then we believers are sanctified and made whole and made new
and right and holy and all of that stuff. So we're reflecting being a child of God and
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reflecting righteousness and reflecting our inheritance. I know, isn't it good? He's so
good. That fires me up really. That's good. Yeah. You know, it's amazing to me because
the Lord can use earthly things to teach us of heavenly things. Jesus, I think was actually
speaking to Nicodemus when he says, if I tell you of earthly things and you do not understand,
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how can I speak to you of heavenly things? And so Jesus often in his illustrations, he
uses earthly things to communicate heavenly realities. And that's a very biblical principle.
Absolutely. I think that's so much of what his parables were all about. Yeah. So good.
So let me ask you a question. If you could pick one thing out of the New Covenant, one
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thing out of the finished work of Jesus that you really want to dismantle, like the lies
of the enemy, what would you share to our listeners, both listening now and both who
will listen in the future? What will help them dismantle? So many of the emails and
(25:28):
messages that I get, people talking to me, I could boil them down to one thing. And it
was really a question in my life too, well after I was saved. It's this idea or this
question, am I okay? And of course there are all kinds of evidences in our lives. It's
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unique to different people. I struggle with this. This was in my past. This is still an
issue in my present on and on symptom, symptom, or symptom struggle, sickness, all those different
things. Am I okay? And the enemy and religion gets people to think that it's their responsibility
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then to do all of these things. All of these disciplines follow all of these rules. Even
as I said earlier, they can be good things, more prayer, more Bible study, more fasting,
things like that, all to try to work off their rough edges, to try to cleanse themselves
and fix themselves. Well, the new covenant tells us that Jesus is the one that made us
(26:39):
right. He cleansed us through and through the moment that you said yes to Jesus. You
weren't just covered. Sometimes we talk about being covered by the blood. No, no, you were
cleansed by the blood. You got a spiritual DNA change even that you went from sinner
to saint, from old to new, from wrong to right, from a mess to a message, to that diamond
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that you talked about a few minutes ago, Christina, that reflects his promises. So that's what
I want people to understand. That's really what I want them to understand through this
book even, is that yes, in your flesh, because flesh, it's going to die and decay someday.
It never gets perfected. Your flesh doesn't. You're going to make mistakes. There are going
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to be flaws. There are going to be failures, past, present, future. But that's not what
God is defining you by anymore. That's not what your eternity is determined by anymore.
It's all determined by your belief in Jesus who has made you right. I often say it, I
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said it in several of my books, but Christ writes you despite you, despite your flesh,
despite your attitudes and your actions, you are right. That's the gospel. Leaning into
that and remembering that, it doesn't make you worse. It makes you better.
It doesn't.
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Peter, I think, said it, when you remember your cleansing, he was talking about lust
and lies and those things, but he was saying you're not growing in godliness because you've
forgotten your cleansing. You've forgotten who you are. So remember who you are. Remember
that God has made you right. And somehow that right believing is going to just naturally
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become right behaving and right living. Not something you strive for, but something that
just happens more automatically out of who you are. You start to do what comes naturally
out of your new nature.
Amen. Amen. And I love that you said that so much because it's in the new covenant that
the righteousness of God, not Kyle's righteousness, not my righteousness, is revealed from faith
(29:04):
to faith. And the only righteousness, I love to say it like this, there's only one righteousness
and it's God's righteousness. And thanks be to God because of Jesus, he gives us that
gift of righteousness. It comes by faith. It's not by anything else, lest any man should
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boast.
I love that you said that. It brings up something I often teach about, which is this idea of
putting on Christ. So much of when Paul is writing about dealing with fleshly things
even, he will tell the people to put on Christ. And a lot of people think, well, is that some
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sort of routine or ritual that I've got to do? The word put on there, I go through it
in the book, is the word enduo. It's what we get the word endowment from. That is a
gift of grace. It's not ours, but it's given to us and then it becomes ours that we get
to use as ours and claim as ours. And that's what, just as you said, that's what God's
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righteousness given to us is. It is an endowment of gift of grace that is his, but now we get
to claim as ours.
Yes.
So put on Christ. Remember who you are.
Yes. And that's where the freedom comes, right? Because as long as we're into religious lawkeeping,
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let's be honest with you, we're into self-righteousness. And anytime you're into self-righteousness,
you're not going to succeed. Why? Because none of us are righteous.
Yeah. It's going to take you to where law and rule keeping, commandment keeping was
always designed to take you, which is condemnation. The apostle Paul said even death. That's the
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old way. That's the old way that didn't work. So you trying to white knuckle your way through
and follow all of these don't taste, don't touch, don't handle kind of rules, apostle
Paul talks about that in Colossians 2.20, it doesn't work. It doesn't work to produce
godliness. All it's going to do is wear you down, bring you to the end of yourself because
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that's where law always leads. It's meant to show your need for a savior.
Amen.
If you want to burn out, if you want to be condemned and accused and all that, keep following
self-righteousness because that's where it's going to lead you to point you to the need
for a savior. So get that revelation as quick as you can and get into grace and experience
freedom and the empowerment that comes from there.
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Yeah. Amen. Amen. Amen. I always tell people this, there's no self-help in the kingdom
of God. There was no help for you. So you know what God's solution was? To kill you
off.
Yeah. That's it. He killed that old self.
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Yes, he killed it off. And yet people are still trying to resurrect it and work on it.
And this thing we call progressive sanctification, as if I can do enough to try to, as I said
earlier, wear off my rough edges and fix myself. No. Paul says, I think it's what 1 Corinthians
(32:23):
6 11, I think it is, that you are washed, you are justified, you are sanctified. How?
Not by doing more, not by working more, by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
That's your belief and by the spirit of our God, that's God doing the work after that.
Whatever he's going to do, he's the one that does it, not you. You are his handiwork. Not
(32:45):
your own.
Amen. Amen. The Lord said it to me this way. All of that religious law keeping is tantamount
to perfecting the dead.
I'll let that sink in for a little bit.
That will bring it.
Perfecting the dead. Yeah. The dead that's going to die into grace someday. It's like,
(33:08):
yeah, like you're pulsing brass on a sinking ship anyway.
Pretty much.
You're going to be on that ship and get into the new one, the new nature that's already
clean and right and live from there.
Amen. Amen. Isn't Jesus amazing? Isn't he awesome?
Yes.
I love it. I love it. Well, this has been so, so fun, my friends. Is there anything
(33:30):
burning on your heart you'd like to say directly to our listeners today?
I just want to remind people because I think a lot of people, maybe they know that they're
saved, but they don't know they're loved. And that was so much of my story. The goal
of Christianity is not sin management. It's not that you can overcome sin. It's that none
(33:52):
of it means anything about you and God loves you through and through despite anything.
It's that nothing can separate you from the love of God. Set your mind on that. Everything
else just takes care of itself from there. It really does.
Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you for that. Yeah. Will you pray for our listeners today? The
(34:15):
Holy Spirit is already on this conversation and he is here today. And so Lord, just whatever
you lay on Kyle's heart, this is an interactive show.
Yes. Father, we thank you. We thank you for the finished work of Jesus, Lord, that has
done everything that you required, Lord, and that we just now get to bask and enjoy its
(34:42):
benefits, Lord, for those people who are being beat down by the world and the church world
and the accuser Father, making them feel like they can't possibly be loved, that they aren't
enough God. I pray that through our conversation today and through reminders from your word
and your Holy Spirit, that they would just know who you are, how good you are, and how
(35:08):
much you love them, that it's not conditional. It's not based on what they do, what they
don't do, what they've done, what they haven't done, what they are even going to do or not
do in the future, Lord. God, I just pray that it would sink in, that they would sink into
these truths and put on Christ and remember who they are and whose they are. And may they
(35:35):
leave from this podcast, leave from this live show, Lord, with just a radiance about them
and a godly confidence that doesn't come from their efforts, but comes from what you've
done in them, Father. May they lean only on that, give up all the stress and the striving
(36:01):
and the flesh fixing and lean on to the truth that Jesus has made them right, he's made
them godly, nothing they do can add to that. They are whole through and through, Lord.
Keep that on their minds and on their lips. In Jesus' name, amen.
(36:22):
Amen. Amen. Thank you so much, my friend. That was awesome. You know, I so appreciate
you being here with me today. Can you tell our friends where they can pick up a copy
of your new book, Permission to be Imperfect?
Sure. Anywhere books are sold. I send signed copies though through my website, which is
(36:43):
kylewinkler.org.
Thank you so much. Well, I'm so grateful for you being with me here today. Thank you.
And I am equally grateful, always a profound, spirit-filled conversation with you, Christina.
So it really has been a pleasure to be with you. Thank you.
(37:04):
Thank you. All right.
Beloved, let me introduce you to my King. He is altogether lovely. No matter which way
you turn him, he is perfection personified. He is velvet and steel. He is meekness and
majesty. He is glory and humility. He is kindness and strength. He is altogether lovely. And
(37:31):
he is my King. And he can be yours as well. All day long, he holds his hand that you might
take, that you might turn, one step, one grasp, one yes, one breath away from the arms of
your loving Savior. Beloved, if you hear him, do not harden your heart. The Bible declares
(37:52):
that not one of us is guaranteed another moment upon this earth. So pray this prayer with
me today and run into the arms of the one who loves you, who knows you best.
Father, I ask you to forgive me for all of my sin, for all of the places that I have
fallen short, God, of your glorious standard. I ask you now to send your Son into my heart
(38:16):
to be the forgiveness of my sin, to be my redemption, to be my righteousness, to be
my holiness, to be my sanctification. I ask you to forgive me, to cleanse me, to fill
me with your Spirit, your power, your glory, that I might bring glory to your name, Father.
(38:38):
I thank you that I receive all of this by faith and the Son of God who loved me and
who gave himself up for me. I thank you that I am now a child of God, fully forgiven, fully
righteous, fully holy in your eyes. And I ask you to help me walk out this life in a
(39:00):
way that pleases and honors you, Father. I thank you, Jesus, for all that you've done.
I thank you for your love, for your kindness, for your great joy in saving me. And I thank
you, Father, and I thank you, Holy Spirit. And I pray all of these things in your beautiful
(39:24):
Son's name. Amen. If you've just prayed that prayer for the first time, I want to congratulate
you. You are now a child of God and all things are now yours. Keep listening to Revealing
Jesus. Find a good Bible translation that makes sense to you. And keep hearing about
(39:47):
our beautiful Savior Jesus. Please let us know. We want to continue to pray for you.
And we want to send you a free PDF copy of our New Believer Workbook. Just go to Christina
Perera dot org slash welcome hyphen home. Enter your email address and we will be happy
(40:09):
to send this free gift. And continue to pray for your journey. God bless.
I sincerely hope and pray today's episode has blessed you. Now it's your turn to continue
the conversation. We are all evangelists of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Like this episode,
(40:32):
rate it, share it with a friend if it's impacted your life. Let them know that you
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(41:04):
love to connect with you on social media. You can find us at Christina Perera Ministries
on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. Until next week, may grace and peace be multiplied
into you in the knowledge of Jesus. God bless.
Welcome to Revealing Jesus. Are you hungry to learn more about our beautiful Savior Jesus?
(00:06):
I am your host, Christina Perera, lover of Jesus, apostolic leader, licensed and ordained
minister, author, podcaster, and Kingdom Party planner. Did you know that the Bible declares
that grace and peace are multiplied to us in the knowledge of Jesus? And that simply
means the more we learn about our beautiful Savior, the more we will experience all He
(00:30):
died to give us. Join me for all things the King and his Kingdom, including revelatory
teaching, interviews with Bible ministers, media leaders, authors, and more. Come discover
the beauty of God displayed all across the body of Christ. Together we are revealing
more of Jesus to our hurting world today. Specifically, we look at the New Testament
(00:58):
where Jesus is portraying who God is. Jesus repeatedly says, if you've seen me, you've
seen the Father. Yeah. And that is looking at Him, looking at what He said, looking at
the benefits that we have because of His death and resurrection, His finished work. That
(01:19):
is what renews our mind. The Spirit takes us. The Bible says that, I think it's Ephesians
4.3, that the Spirit renews us and it renews our minds and our attitudes and all of that.
And the Spirit reveals things to us. It takes us to reminders and to seeing truths about
God in the New Testament through the words of Jesus and the New Testament writers. The
(01:43):
Spirit takes us to those reminders so that when we get in that performance mode, that's
what Paul was talking about. There are a lot of people think that when he's saying don't
be conformed to the pattern of the world, he's talking about sin and morality. But really
what he's talking about or talking to was a religious system and a culture that was
trying to appease God and different gods through various sacrifices and performance and rule
(02:07):
keeping and commandment keeping. And he's saying none of that works. What does work.
But before we get started, I want to give a quick shout out to our Christina Perera
Ministries sponsors who help support the mission to unite the body of Christ and fulfill the
great commission with love. A big shout out to Go4Ministries who provides all of our equipment
(02:31):
for our gospel events. Davis Financial Services who does all of our financial accounting.
Harvest Family Network through which I am licensed and ordained. And Life Changing
Productions who helps put together evangelistic events to reach our city for Jesus. If you
(02:51):
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on our website at ChristinaPerera.org. Do you have a loved one special occasion coming
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(03:15):
It makes a great gift. To find out more information, just go to ChristinaPerera.org.
Hey everybody and welcome to this episode of Revealing Jesus with Christina Perera.
So I have with me here today a friend who's actually been on the podcast before and he
(03:36):
is a fellow kingdom minister, new covenant minister, and he's got a new book out called
Permission to Be Imperfect. I have with me here today Kyle Winkler. Kyle, welcome back.
Thanks so much, Christina. It is so good to be back with you. Honored to join you again
and how fun to get to take this new step, this adventure with you here going live too.
(04:00):
Thanks for the opportunity. Oh, well, I'm so thrilled and so grateful. You know, you
guys Kyle is so patient and so kind. I can tell he loves Jesus. His fruit is showing.
That's where it comes from. I tell you, it truly is the spirit of the Lord working out
of us for sure. I know I'm so thankful and you know, I think the most amazing thing about
(04:24):
doing Revealing Jesus is I get to talk to people like you from all over the world and
there is this connection in the kingdom and it feels like family and you can recognize
fellow believers and just, oh my gosh, isn't it amazing? It is. I see that so often. It's,
(04:46):
you can meet somebody for the first time and feel like you've known them for a lifetime
and I know that's kind of how it is meeting you as well. The last time and this time,
I think it's been a couple years or so since we chatted last, but it wouldn't feel like
it. And that is just, that's this connection that you were talking about, this spirit connection
(05:07):
and it unifies the body of Christ. It's a beautiful thing.
It is and it's so beautiful and I think that's one of my favorite things about the kingdom
of God is the unity and the family aspect of it. And I feel like that is so vitally
missing in our culture today and people, especially my generation, you are my generation, we're
(05:30):
older millennials, right? I was 82, you were what?
84. I called myself an old soul millennial. Not a typical millennial, old soul millennial.
Old soul millennial. That means we're old enough to remember the Oregon Trail, right?
Oh boy, that was a great one. Yes. And young enough to be able to work our eye
(05:53):
button, right? That's right. So the sweet balance, right? We
got the 80s and 90s music as well. Honestly, I feel like this is, I know I'm
going to make myself feel so old right now, but, and I think you actually said this in
your book, I read it this morning, you called it the golden age.
(06:14):
Oh, I did. Yes, it was. Yes. I know my older brothers would debate that. They're like 12
years older than me or so. So their golden age was a decade before, but I think the 90s,
that was it for me. I know. So good. So good. Although I have to
say a lot of it now that I go back and listen to it, I'm like, wow, that is so inappropriate.
(06:36):
Oh yeah. I know. It is true. I could tell you stories back before I knew the Lord of
the songs that I had memorized and things like that. Oh man.
Yeah. Oh yeah. I know. I put on this, this summer's greatest hit playlist the other day
from Amazon and I had to skip like 50% of it because I was like, I can't play that with
(07:00):
my nine year olds. Oh yeah. Some will pop up from time to time
or I'll hear them in stores or restaurants and they do, they take me back to certain
periods in childhood. It's amazing how music can do that, but sometimes I don't want it
to take me back to those places too with some of those songs. But that's why we have this
opportunity to renew our minds, right? Right. Yes. Yes. And it's so beautiful. I actually
(07:26):
really loved reading through your book, permission to be imperfect, how to strive less, stress
less and less. Here it is. Oh, my zoom filter. You can tell that's not my room, right?
The book is disappearing before our very eyes here.
It's coming in and out. It's available now. I swear. Anyway, permission to be imperfect.
(07:51):
And you know, Jesus has this idea that we should all look different and unique and be
beautiful in our own ways. Right? Yes. I love that you say that because I think so many
people and it's been a core message of mine since I began. It's really my message is identity
(08:13):
in Christ. Well, I think there are a lot of people and I was one of them for many years
where we think we get saved and then suddenly we're all supposed to just look and think
and dress and have all the same things on all the same things. And that is cookie cutter
Christianity, which is as naive as it is unbiblical. God created us a certain way with
(08:37):
personality, a certain style, certain features, and those don't go away. The way God created
you doesn't go away the moment that you said yes to Jesus. No, now you get gifts added
to the way that he created you and you get a redeemed story too. So we are unique people
that have a unique identity in Christ, I like to say. And inside of that is purpose and
(09:01):
power and peace. If you'll embrace that, which is really what God's love, I think this permission
to be imperfect thing that I talk about is all about. It's allowing you to be the person
that God made you and love. I love that so much. I felt like your book, I think really
(09:23):
the message in the core and the heart of it was really at trying to dismantle the religious
performance is the impression I got. You got it. I'm glad that came across because
that was really the heart of it. And I got to have some fun with it too, as I dismantled
(09:45):
some of those things. Right. I think one of the biggest things I think that you mentioned
in there that really stood out, I mean, I feel like this is going to hit home with a
lot of people is seeing God as a harsh, hard, punishing God. Can you talk about that?
(10:07):
Yeah, you know, 75% of people, and I'm not just pulling a stat from wherever, 75% of
people it's been studied somehow believe that God is either angry, critical or distant.
I did. That was the bulk of at least probably the first 16 years of my life until I was
born again at 16 years old. And then even after that, I kind of had this hybrid view
(10:31):
of God that maybe he was, he was loved, but he was also this impossible to please task
master looking to get me back for my every mistake. And people come up with this idea,
it passes the smell test, I often say for people because we do get this impression and
(10:51):
we do have stories from the Old Testament. And you read 75% of your Bible almost, and
it does, let's be honest, make God to look not all that favorable. There are stories
of punishment and him smiting people and all that type of stuff. But what a lot of people
don't realize is that's not the pure view of God. That was a view that was written by
(11:19):
people experienced by people that didn't have the full picture of things they were saying
ultimately through a lens of sin, through a lens of sin having not yet been dealt with
and, and a people that were discovering on this path of discovering things with God.
Today though, as it's described in the New Testament, we have the full picture of God.
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Bible says when the time was right, God sent Jesus. And it says that Jesus is the visible
image of the invisible, invisible God. And John even said that here's what he looks like
when the word became flesh and dwelt among us. He said he was God at creation, Jesus
in God one, when he came to earth and dwelt among us, here's what he looked like, full
(12:06):
of grace and truth. That's unconditional love that you can depend upon. And he gives us,
he says grace upon grace upon grace upon grace upon grace. So he's not the angry mad God
that maybe somebody told you he was, or maybe that you read he was in the Old Testament.
No, because of Jesus, he is full of grace and that's what he gives. And that's how we
(12:31):
get to experience him today. You don't have to earn anything from him. He's not asking
you to do anything to please him. He just loves you through and through because you
are his child. Amen. Amen. I love that so much. You know, it's crazy how much that worldview
can infiltrate our thinking about God, the world. And you actually mentioned this in
(12:55):
your book and I actually preached about this on Sunday. You know, the world has this idea,
especially when it comes to like natural disasters and things they call them acts of God. And
I'm like, what are you talking about? God didn't do it. You know, Jesus wouldn't do
that. I know it's just destroying his character. Yeah. Living here in Florida, I hear it every
(13:16):
year starting, we're hearing it now actually, because there's a hurricane going out here
in the first of July already. But for the next few months, I'll hear it. Oh, this is
an act of God. Growing up in Missouri, we used to hear the snow storms were acts of
God. So yeah, it does put this culture. It's not even the church world, although the church
world kind of adds to it, but culture itself will tell you that these horrible things that
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are happening in your life, that they are just that acts of God. So what do you think that
does to people? It causes them not to want to have anything to do with him because if
he's going to be somebody that zaps us for anything, then why would I want to be in any
kind of a relationship with him? It's just awful. It really, really destroys God's good
character. Thankfully though, we've got the New Testament, we've got Jesus to restore
(14:03):
it and show us who he really is. Amen. It reminds me, I can't remember, it was many,
many years ago, but I put this out on Instagram and I thought that I thought it was so good.
I said, the last time I checked my Bible, Jesus calm storms, not created them. Yes.
Oh, that's good. I love it. That's a revelation there. Yeah. That's a tweet. That's good.
(14:25):
I know. Yeah. I should put it on, on Instagram. Yeah. And he came to destroy the works of
the devil, not afflict us with them. Yes. Yeah. So good. So good. So the Bible actually
says that we are to not be conformed to this world, but transformed by the renewing of
our mind. And so Kyle, we renew our mind by reading the words of God, right? Specifically,
(14:49):
we look at the New Testament where Jesus is portraying who God is. Jesus repeatedly says,
if you've seen me, you've seen the father. Yeah. Isn't that amazing? And that is looking
at him, looking at what he said, looking at the benefits that we have because of his death
(15:11):
and resurrection, his finished work. That is what renews our mind. The spirit takes
us. The Bible says that, I think it's Ephesians 4, 3, that the spirit renews us and it renews
our minds and our attitudes and all of that. And the spirit reveals things to us. It takes
us to reminders and to seeing truths about God in the New Testament through the words
(15:35):
of Jesus and the New Testament writers. The spirit takes us to those reminders so that
when we get in that performance mode, that's what Paul was talking about there. A lot of
people think that when he's saying don't be conformed to the pattern of the world, he's
talking about sin and morality. But really what he's talking about or talking to was
a religious system and a culture that was trying to appease God and different gods through
(16:00):
various sacrifices and performance and rule keeping and commandment keeping. And he's
saying none of that works. What does work is to be renewed in mind to what Jesus already
did. He already forgave you. He already came to live inside of you. He cleansed you. He
made you whole so that you're enough. Renew your mind to those truths and then the other
(16:23):
things they just start to work themselves out naturally.
It's like once the sap of the new creation life starts flowing within you, it's like
those dead leaves. They just drop off. It's such a profound way to put it, which you're
known for doing. You're very sweet. The sap. Yes. Love that. Yeah. But it does. It does.
(16:51):
And so the other thing the Lord's highlighting to me right now is you actually pointed out
in your book, the Holy Spirit, he comes to make known all the things that Christ has
right and has now given to us, right? He comes to convict the world of sin. But you actually
talked about it in your book and I love that you, Dick, it's not that many people talk
(17:13):
about this. What is the one sin that the Holy Spirit comes to convict the world of Kyle?
Yeah. So many people read that and they think it says sins, plural, as if the Holy Spirit
has come to deal with our in particular sins and over and over and over again to remind
us of them and say shape up or else. And that's not what it's saying. First of all, it says
(17:37):
the world, so it's not talking about believers in that instance. And this is Jesus, by the
way, speaking. And he's calling the Holy Spirit an advocate, which is somebody that's on your
side. And so he says the advocates going to come and convict the world of its sin. You
got to keep reading. It's not individual sins. It's one. And it's sin. Jesus said is unbelief.
(17:59):
That's the world's sin is its lack of dependency, belief on Jesus. Yes. And that's it. So what
stands between us now, because Jesus came to take away the sin of the world. And as
Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5 19 on the cross, God reconciled humans to himself, no longer
counts our sins against us. Okay. So the sin issue is a done deal. It was a done deal at
(18:24):
the cross. The issue now, the only thing that God is working with people on convicting the
world of is getting them to believe in Jesus. That's it. Our salvation does not come down
to sin management or sinlessness. It comes down to faith in Jesus. And that's it. Amen.
(18:49):
And you know, the amazing thing is the Bible says that the righteous will live by faith
and it's specifically faith in the son of God who loved us and gave himself up for us.
Right? That's it. We've complicated it so much. And I know over the years in various
places I've been and things that I've heard, it was almost like faith was this thing you
(19:11):
kind of conjured up almost with willpower to get God to make all your dreams come true.
And that's not the saving faith at all. The saving faith is that Jesus did everything
necessary to make you right with God. That you can't do it with your performance, with
your willpower, with your spiritual disciplines. I don't care what you're trying to do, how
good they seem or are. None of that makes you right with God. Jesus made you right with
(19:37):
God once and for all. And your faith in that, well that's what saves you. That's the saving
faith. That's what it's all about. Amen. Amen. And as we behold Jesus, we are being transformed
from glory to glory, from faith to faith. Isn't it amazing?
Yeah. It is our transformation. Like the word there that Paul uses in the renewal of the
(20:02):
mind, be transformed, he says, by the renewal of the mind. It's metamorphosis. We think
caterpillar to butterfly. The caterpillar does not go into that cocoon and grunt and
lift a bunch of weights and do all kinds of stuff to try to grow itself. No, it's a natural
thing when it gets in the right environment. And when we're in the right environment, just
as you said, beholding Jesus, relying on his grace, allowing ourselves to be loved unconditionally.
(20:29):
That does the work of growth in us from glory to glory, strength to strength. It's a beautiful
thing. It's why we don't have to strive to do it. It just happens.
Amen. Amen. I love that so much. You know, I remember back when I was a much younger
Christian, I've been saved since I was seven. So, and I am not how old I am.
(20:49):
Well, you already told us you were born in 82. So we can do that. Still very young.
For those of you who can't do math, I'm not telling you. But anyway, so I can remember
back when I was a much younger Christian, I really didn't understand the new covenant
and I didn't understand the grace of God. There was so much striving. And I know you
(21:15):
talked about this in your book and I know so many people are going to be able to relate
to this. And it was interesting. You said something you were, you had this crazy schedule,
right? I think was it, was it Monday? Was spiritual enrichment Tuesday?
Spiritual growth seminar. Tuesday was a Bible study. Wednesday I was a youth leader. Thursday
(21:36):
small group leader. Friday was intercessory prayer. Saturday and Sunday I was serving
in a church all while working in a church. And that kind of schedule made me worse, not
better. I think I had the worst mood and attitude towards people in that season of my life than
any other time. Yet I was in the church doing the things of God, I thought, more than any
(21:57):
other time. Thinking that that was, I guess, going to twist God's arm into blessing me
and fixing me and all of that stuff. And like I said, made me worse, not better.
Yeah. And it's so interesting to me because we can do the do, right? Right. But not have
the have, you know? And so, so many times I feel like, you know, when we don't understand
(22:25):
the new covenant of grace, when we don't understand the finished work and what Jesus has and what
he's accomplished for us, that we're not fighting for these promises. The Lord said this to
me and it was so beautiful. You know, the Bible actually says that we are like treasures,
gems to the Lord. Beautiful stones, precious stones. And the Lord took me into this vision
(22:52):
and he showed me this vision of me as this huge yellow diamond. And I'm sitting there
in this vision and he's just rolling this diamond in between his hands. And as he does,
I'm watching the light shine off of every facet of this diamond. And he said to me,
(23:14):
you don't, you reflect the promises. Oh, I love that. You see, when the light shines
off of a precious stone, the refraction produces rainbows. And what are rainbows in the Bible,
according to the fact that we go back to the story of Noah, rainbows often represent promises.
(23:35):
And you see, because of what Christ has done in us and for us, we now reflect the promises.
And when the light hits us, we shine for Jesus. Oh, that's beautiful. What a vision, what
a revelation there. Oh yeah. That'll preach. Yeah, I mean, it will. I mean, it shifted
(23:58):
the way I saw and did everything. Yeah, it would shift the way you see people too. If
we all saw people as those diamonds reflecting God's promises. I mean, we're all made in
the image of God anyway. And then we believers are sanctified and made whole and made new
and right and holy and all of that stuff. So we're reflecting being a child of God and
(24:21):
reflecting righteousness and reflecting our inheritance. I know, isn't it good? He's so
good. That fires me up really. That's good. Yeah. You know, it's amazing to me because
the Lord can use earthly things to teach us of heavenly things. Jesus, I think was actually
speaking to Nicodemus when he says, if I tell you of earthly things and you do not understand,
(24:44):
how can I speak to you of heavenly things? And so Jesus often in his illustrations, he
uses earthly things to communicate heavenly realities. And that's a very biblical principle.
Absolutely. I think that's so much of what his parables were all about. Yeah. So good.
So let me ask you a question. If you could pick one thing out of the New Covenant, one
(25:06):
thing out of the finished work of Jesus that you really want to dismantle, like the lies
of the enemy, what would you share to our listeners, both listening now and both who
will listen in the future? What will help them dismantle? So many of the emails and
(25:28):
messages that I get, people talking to me, I could boil them down to one thing. And it
was really a question in my life too, well after I was saved. It's this idea or this
question, am I okay? And of course there are all kinds of evidences in our lives. It's
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unique to different people. I struggle with this. This was in my past. This is still an
issue in my present on and on symptom, symptom, or symptom struggle, sickness, all those different
things. Am I okay? And the enemy and religion gets people to think that it's their responsibility
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then to do all of these things. All of these disciplines follow all of these rules. Even
as I said earlier, they can be good things, more prayer, more Bible study, more fasting,
things like that, all to try to work off their rough edges, to try to cleanse themselves
and fix themselves. Well, the new covenant tells us that Jesus is the one that made us
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right. He cleansed us through and through the moment that you said yes to Jesus. You
weren't just covered. Sometimes we talk about being covered by the blood. No, no, you were
cleansed by the blood. You got a spiritual DNA change even that you went from sinner
to saint, from old to new, from wrong to right, from a mess to a message, to that diamond
(27:05):
that you talked about a few minutes ago, Christina, that reflects his promises. So that's what
I want people to understand. That's really what I want them to understand through this
book even, is that yes, in your flesh, because flesh, it's going to die and decay someday.
It never gets perfected. Your flesh doesn't. You're going to make mistakes. There are going
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to be flaws. There are going to be failures, past, present, future. But that's not what
God is defining you by anymore. That's not what your eternity is determined by anymore.
It's all determined by your belief in Jesus who has made you right. I often say it, I
(27:51):
said it in several of my books, but Christ writes you despite you, despite your flesh,
despite your attitudes and your actions, you are right. That's the gospel. Leaning into
that and remembering that, it doesn't make you worse. It makes you better.
It doesn't.
(28:11):
Peter, I think, said it, when you remember your cleansing, he was talking about lust
and lies and those things, but he was saying you're not growing in godliness because you've
forgotten your cleansing. You've forgotten who you are. So remember who you are. Remember
that God has made you right. And somehow that right believing is going to just naturally
(28:36):
become right behaving and right living. Not something you strive for, but something that
just happens more automatically out of who you are. You start to do what comes naturally
out of your new nature.
Amen. Amen. And I love that you said that so much because it's in the new covenant that
the righteousness of God, not Kyle's righteousness, not my righteousness, is revealed from faith
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to faith. And the only righteousness, I love to say it like this, there's only one righteousness
and it's God's righteousness. And thanks be to God because of Jesus, he gives us that
gift of righteousness. It comes by faith. It's not by anything else, lest any man should
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boast.
I love that you said that. It brings up something I often teach about, which is this idea of
putting on Christ. So much of when Paul is writing about dealing with fleshly things
even, he will tell the people to put on Christ. And a lot of people think, well, is that some
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sort of routine or ritual that I've got to do? The word put on there, I go through it
in the book, is the word enduo. It's what we get the word endowment from. That is a
gift of grace. It's not ours, but it's given to us and then it becomes ours that we get
to use as ours and claim as ours. And that's what, just as you said, that's what God's
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righteousness given to us is. It is an endowment of gift of grace that is his, but now we get
to claim as ours.
Yes.
So put on Christ. Remember who you are.
Yes. And that's where the freedom comes, right? Because as long as we're into religious lawkeeping,
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let's be honest with you, we're into self-righteousness. And anytime you're into self-righteousness,
you're not going to succeed. Why? Because none of us are righteous.
Yeah. It's going to take you to where law and rule keeping, commandment keeping was
always designed to take you, which is condemnation. The apostle Paul said even death. That's the
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old way. That's the old way that didn't work. So you trying to white knuckle your way through
and follow all of these don't taste, don't touch, don't handle kind of rules, apostle
Paul talks about that in Colossians 2.20, it doesn't work. It doesn't work to produce
godliness. All it's going to do is wear you down, bring you to the end of yourself because
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that's where law always leads. It's meant to show your need for a savior.
Amen.
If you want to burn out, if you want to be condemned and accused and all that, keep following
self-righteousness because that's where it's going to lead you to point you to the need
for a savior. So get that revelation as quick as you can and get into grace and experience
freedom and the empowerment that comes from there.
(31:40):
Yeah. Amen. Amen. Amen. I always tell people this, there's no self-help in the kingdom
of God. There was no help for you. So you know what God's solution was? To kill you
off.
Yeah. That's it. He killed that old self.
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Yes, he killed it off. And yet people are still trying to resurrect it and work on it.
And this thing we call progressive sanctification, as if I can do enough to try to, as I said
earlier, wear off my rough edges and fix myself. No. Paul says, I think it's what 1 Corinthians
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6 11, I think it is, that you are washed, you are justified, you are sanctified. How?
Not by doing more, not by working more, by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
That's your belief and by the spirit of our God, that's God doing the work after that.
Whatever he's going to do, he's the one that does it, not you. You are his handiwork. Not
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your own.
Amen. Amen. The Lord said it to me this way. All of that religious law keeping is tantamount
to perfecting the dead.
I'll let that sink in for a little bit.
That will bring it.
Perfecting the dead. Yeah. The dead that's going to die into grace someday. It's like,
(33:08):
yeah, like you're pulsing brass on a sinking ship anyway.
Pretty much.
You're going to be on that ship and get into the new one, the new nature that's already
clean and right and live from there.
Amen. Amen. Isn't Jesus amazing? Isn't he awesome?
Yes.
I love it. I love it. Well, this has been so, so fun, my friends. Is there anything
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burning on your heart you'd like to say directly to our listeners today?
I just want to remind people because I think a lot of people, maybe they know that they're
saved, but they don't know they're loved. And that was so much of my story. The goal
of Christianity is not sin management. It's not that you can overcome sin. It's that none
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of it means anything about you and God loves you through and through despite anything.
It's that nothing can separate you from the love of God. Set your mind on that. Everything
else just takes care of itself from there. It really does.
Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you for that. Yeah. Will you pray for our listeners today? The
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Holy Spirit is already on this conversation and he is here today. And so Lord, just whatever
you lay on Kyle's heart, this is an interactive show.
Yes. Father, we thank you. We thank you for the finished work of Jesus, Lord, that has
done everything that you required, Lord, and that we just now get to bask and enjoy its
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benefits, Lord, for those people who are being beat down by the world and the church world
and the accuser Father, making them feel like they can't possibly be loved, that they aren't
enough God. I pray that through our conversation today and through reminders from your word
and your Holy Spirit, that they would just know who you are, how good you are, and how
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much you love them, that it's not conditional. It's not based on what they do, what they
don't do, what they've done, what they haven't done, what they are even going to do or not
do in the future, Lord. God, I just pray that it would sink in, that they would sink into
these truths and put on Christ and remember who they are and whose they are. And may they
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leave from this podcast, leave from this live show, Lord, with just a radiance about them
and a godly confidence that doesn't come from their efforts, but comes from what you've
done in them, Father. May they lean only on that, give up all the stress and the striving
(36:01):
and the flesh fixing and lean on to the truth that Jesus has made them right, he's made
them godly, nothing they do can add to that. They are whole through and through, Lord.
Keep that on their minds and on their lips. In Jesus' name, amen.
(36:22):
Amen. Amen. Thank you so much, my friend. That was awesome. You know, I so appreciate
you being here with me today. Can you tell our friends where they can pick up a copy
of your new book, Permission to be Imperfect?
Sure. Anywhere books are sold. I send signed copies though through my website, which is
(36:43):
kylewinkler.org.
Thank you so much. Well, I'm so grateful for you being with me here today. Thank you.
And I am equally grateful, always a profound, spirit-filled conversation with you, Christina.
So it really has been a pleasure to be with you. Thank you.
(37:04):
Thank you. All right.
Beloved, let me introduce you to my King. He is altogether lovely. No matter which way
you turn him, he is perfection personified. He is velvet and steel. He is meekness and
majesty. He is glory and humility. He is kindness and strength. He is altogether lovely. And
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he is my King. And he can be yours as well. All day long, he holds his hand that you might
take, that you might turn, one step, one grasp, one yes, one breath away from the arms of
your loving Savior. Beloved, if you hear him, do not harden your heart. The Bible declares
(37:52):
that not one of us is guaranteed another moment upon this earth. So pray this prayer with
me today and run into the arms of the one who loves you, who knows you best.
Father, I ask you to forgive me for all of my sin, for all of the places that I have
fallen short, God, of your glorious standard. I ask you now to send your Son into my heart
(38:16):
to be the forgiveness of my sin, to be my redemption, to be my righteousness, to be
my holiness, to be my sanctification. I ask you to forgive me, to cleanse me, to fill
me with your Spirit, your power, your glory, that I might bring glory to your name, Father.
(38:38):
I thank you that I receive all of this by faith and the Son of God who loved me and
who gave himself up for me. I thank you that I am now a child of God, fully forgiven, fully
righteous, fully holy in your eyes. And I ask you to help me walk out this life in a
(39:00):
way that pleases and honors you, Father. I thank you, Jesus, for all that you've done.
I thank you for your love, for your kindness, for your great joy in saving me. And I thank
you, Father, and I thank you, Holy Spirit. And I pray all of these things in your beautiful
(39:24):
Son's name. Amen. If you've just prayed that prayer for the first time, I want to congratulate
you. You are now a child of God and all things are now yours. Keep listening to Revealing
Jesus. Find a good Bible translation that makes sense to you. And keep hearing about
(39:47):
our beautiful Savior Jesus. Please let us know. We want to continue to pray for you.
And we want to send you a free PDF copy of our New Believer Workbook. Just go to Christina
Perera dot org slash welcome hyphen home. Enter your email address and we will be happy
(40:09):
to send this free gift. And continue to pray for your journey. God bless.
I sincerely hope and pray today's episode has blessed you. Now it's your turn to continue
the conversation. We are all evangelists of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Like this episode,
(40:32):
rate it, share it with a friend if it's impacted your life. Let them know that you
want it to do the same in theirs. Help spread the word of the good news of Jesus. Subscribe
to the mailing list and get episodes, articles, downloads, and more sent right to you. Link
in show notes or just text Jesus to 1-833-815-7778. Again, that's Jesus 1-833-815-7778. We would
(41:04):
love to connect with you on social media. You can find us at Christina Perera Ministries
on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. Until next week, may grace and peace be multiplied
into you in the knowledge of Jesus. God bless.
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