Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome
back to another episode of the
Imperfectly Empowered podcast.
I'm your host, anna Fulmer.
Today we have DanielleSebastian on the show.
Danielle is a bestsellingauthor and speaker and she
shares her inspiring story ofresilience and hope as she
details her journey as a wife,overcoming the complex
challenges of being married tosomeone who survived childhood
(00:24):
trauma challenges of beingmarried to someone who survived
childhood trauma here to shareher expert advice on navigating
a spouse's healing from childabuse.
Welcome author and speaker,danielle Sebastian.
Hi, Good morning.
Good morning, it's so nice tomeet you.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Oh my gosh, you got
the book oh, that's so exciting.
Yay.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, thanks for
being on the show.
You have such a wonderful storyand, yeah, the service that
you're offering people is lovelyand, I'm sure, very needed.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah indeed Indeed.
So I am just so thankful foryou, for you know letting me get
my story out.
I'm really excited yeah,absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I.
Um, I love pressing the rewindbutton because obviously we see
we have a book here.
It's fantastic, it's calledresilient wives.
But I would love to pressrewind and just hear the story
that got you to where you aretoday.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, absolutely so.
It's actually today is myanniversary, so 14 years of
marriage, wow, congratulations.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Thank you, I put that
together.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I'm like, oh yeah.
So today, 14 years ago, Imarried my dream guy on a beach
in Kauai and he had astepdaughter, so we had a little
three year old who was, we werejoining families and she was
the flower girl and it wasabsolutely, you know, a
beautiful moment and you know he, he was really.
(02:04):
You know everything.
You know he was a great fatherand just everything I've been
looking for.
And it wasn't long after we weremarried that I started to
notice some things that thatjust didn't make sense.
There was a lot of need tocontrol the environment.
That was causing a lot ofconflict in the relationship.
(02:27):
So things like wanting to havethe blinds set at certain
certain lengths, how long I tookshowers, just a lot of control
things of the environment inparticular and control of the
relationship.
That just didn't make sense andit was causing a lot of
conflict.
And then there started to bequite a few lashing out
(02:50):
experiences for things that werevery normal, you know, normal
things to ask like, hey, can youhelp out with the dishes.
That would lead to reallystrong responses of almost, like
I was personally attacking him,responses of almost like I was
personally attacking him.
Right, and it was.
It was just it was causing alot of issues.
(03:15):
And then I had my son, andthat's when things really
started to escalate and thosebehaviors became almost
unbearable for me.
And then that's when my husbandstarted to withdraw, and that
means going to the basement fourdays at a time, locking himself
in there, unable to even engagewith the family and my kids.
And that's when, you know, wehad a really tragic incident
(03:37):
that led me to be like I don'tthink I can do this anymore.
And it was only at that momentthat my husband was able to
reveal to anyone, for the firsttime ever, a terrible history of
childhood abuse at the hands ofthe church.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
And yeah, it was only
as you.
As you talk about that, I justwant to pause a second.
As you talk about that, I justwant to pause a second.
I think even just like the signsof abuse as an adult meaning
you mentioned some of the stuffthat you said could almost be
like some of us who are just OCDtype A, like we want the blinds
(04:20):
at this, because if one's upand the other two are down like
that's me, 100% I want them atthe same level I literally get
on my husband for being in theshower for too long.
So some of some of what I'msaying I guess like could be OCD
.
But help us kind of clarifybecause, like you're saying, I
think there's even some adultswho you've compartmentalized
(04:43):
your pain so much that theyhonestly don't even acknowledge
in their own hearts and mindsthe abuse that happened.
So maybe it's even in their ownlives that they need to pause
and recognize some of thesesymptoms, let alone that in
their spouse.
So I'm just curious if youcould, you know, specify even
(05:05):
more like what would be somesigns and symptoms that in your
time working with couples thatmight be a little bit more
specific to trauma relatedcontrolling if that makes sense,
it does.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
It totally makes
sense because, you're absolutely
right, a lot of these thingsare, you know, just in
idiosyncrasies of just normalrelationships, right?
So but how can you tell if it'sit could be something deeper,
and I have a whole list of somevery common signs.
And usually the more you haveof the signs and the more severe
(05:43):
they are to speaking to your,to your point about, the more
it's affecting the relationshipand the more it just doesn't
make sense, the more chancethere is.
So number one is they don'twant to talk about their
childhood, right?
So that is a very telltale sign, saying things like, oh, my
(06:03):
childhood was fine, or I don'tremember that much about being a
kid, or yeah, you know, I justit's just, things were very
normal.
So that is a telltale sign Ifthey really don't want to get
deep into their childhood, right, that makes sense.
Then the control.
The control is what survivorsused to survive their childhood.
(06:26):
They were completely out ofcontrol of their situation,
waiting for the bad things tohappen to them, and so they
develop a need to control theirenvironment, control the
relationship as a mechanism tokeep themselves safe, and so
(06:46):
it's different from them wantingto control you, that it's about
them wanting to feel safe.
So that's a little bit of anuance to the control.
If you really start to look atit, that's why that control
comes out, and that would be thedifference there between
somebody who's a narcissistversus had something terrible
(07:09):
happen to them.
Yes, and then this need to pushpeople away and that comes out
in these, when they lash outright Because they were, are
just hyper alert to anybody, who, anything that would seem like
they're going to get hurt.
So when they feel like they'regoing to get hurt, just by
asking, you know, by us sayingyou're, you're not a good father
(07:32):
because you won't put thedishes away, that's what they're
hearing in their brain.
They lashed out and that's topush you away, to push that,
that fear, that person that theysee as dangerous, away.
So that's how I kind ofdescribed that.
And then the withdrawal is toyour point.
It is not about just needing totake a break after a fight and
(07:54):
come back to it.
This is a dissociativewithdrawal, meaning they're
withdrawing from themselves,they're withdrawing from you,
they're withdrawing from theworld, and you can imagine that
to survive their childhood theydissociated, and so that is a
coping mechanism that they usewhen things get painful, when
(08:14):
things get, when there'sconflict.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Give us examples of
dissociative withdrawal, because
it is different.
So I worked in emergencymedicine for 10 years and this
is something that we saw.
There was a lot of underlyingabuse for a lot of the drug
addicts or a lot of the psychdisorders that we saw.
But explain for people whatthat level of withdrawal might
(08:39):
actually look like or play outas.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
I describe it as it's
like a flip has been switched
where it's off.
It's in the off position and nomatter what you do you could
cry, you could get angry, youcan yell, anything you do it's
that you're hitting a brick walland nothing is going to get by
it until that, until that personis ready.
(09:04):
So it really is like a flip ofa switch, dissociation, and one
of the things that I found outit's very hurtful in a
relationship to have that brickwall thrown at you all the time.
But it's also not just to keepthemselves saved, but sometimes
they do it because they're soworried about the responses
(09:26):
they're going to give that it'sactually safer for you.
Right For them to dissociate.
Understand why it's happeningand separate yourself from these
(09:49):
responses.
Then you can take a healthierperspective and deal with it
better.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah, which, to your
point, is, you have to be aware
of these realities, even eitherone not being normal, or two
some of the underlying triggersfor them.
So that's really tough if theperson who has been abused has
not been able to acknowledge itthemselves in the first place.
(10:13):
So I'm also curious and youmight be getting to this from
your husband's perspective,which also, let's just take it
what is his name?
Adam?
Let's just take a second toacknowledge Adam and thank him,
because really, like this,couldn't even this conversation
couldn't even be happening ifAdam wasn't willing to do the
really really hard work.
(10:34):
So, adam, we thank you so much.
And for those of you also thatare listening and this is your
story, um, yeah, you're brave,more so than many of us can ever
imagine.
So, adam, we just thank youright now for your willingness
to even let us be here and talkabout this, talk about letting
go of control.
Right, that's when you knowyou've healed or you are in the
(10:58):
process of healing, when you'reable to let other people talk
about your story and learn fromit.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
So kudos and thank
you A hundred percent.
Amazing work done by him andall of the people that helped
him heal.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yes, amen.
But I'm curious to go back tothat time.
What would he say might havehelped him acknowledge his own
abuse sooner?
Was there anything that helooked?
You know, hindsight vision is2020.
So they say, you know, when helooks back, were there certain
(11:35):
things that had somebody steppedin at this point, or could he
have acknowledged or recognizedsomething sooner?
Or could he have acknowledgedor recognized something sooner?
Does he ever talk about thingsthat he would encourage somebody
else to help kind of end theirsuffering sooner?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
What would?
What would he say to that?
Well, he, he doesn't reallyknow Right what, but I I can
tell you that there were a lotof people that kept what was
going on a secret, said nothingwhen it was happening and knew
the signs in Adam, but never didanything and never reached out
(12:14):
to him.
And so if that's a lesson to,that's a lesson to all of us,
that if something doesn't seemright and you know something is
suspicious, it's up to us to saysomething and to try and hit it
head on, because if one personwould have done that for Adam,
(12:35):
this whole situation might bedifferent today is.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
you know, I will
fully acknowledge the ignorance
of this statement because I amnot aware of any of my loved
ones having experienced anythinglike this.
So for me it's so hard tofathom if I know that someone
that I love is being abused likethis, not bringing it to light.
Some of that's also mypersonality.
(13:02):
But what are some of theunderlying issues and emotions
being experienced?
Because I will also throw outthere maybe somebody is
listening who's in this position.
What is this person strugglingwith?
Because I frankly can'tcomprehend it.
I just can't comprehend notbringing it to light.
(13:23):
And again, I worked in the ERfor 10 years so I've also seen
horrible things across theentire age spectrum.
So what is that person thinkingthrough?
Are they also burying it,almost like it doesn't actually
exist, like how do we help that?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
person be brave.
Well, one thing in particularis that these perpetrators are
they are masters Masters at atgrooming, and they're grooming
those around this.
Yeah, this abuse person.
And so we need to get, we needto get more aware of.
You know, when there is someonewho takes an active, an adult
(14:03):
who takes an active interest inyour child, that seems like, oh,
I wonder why he or she istaking such an active interest
in my child.
He's not.
You know, they're not related.
We need to be very aware ofthat and we need to be very
careful.
The church was also masters ofputting priests in positions of
(14:28):
where they should not be.
These boys were helping in therectory, which is where the
priests sleep.
They pulled them out of schoolto do so.
So I think that a lot of it isjust not being aware and also
that these perpetrators aremasters at manipulating the
(14:49):
situation.
But definitely there were signsalong the way that should have
been red flags.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, and what would
a couple of those signs be?
Because then when we talk aboutfamily, it's a whole nother
level of challenge if it'ssomebody within your family who
is doing the abuse.
And what are some of thosesigns that one would need to be
looking for, regardless ofwhether it's in the family or
not?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
These kids have a lot
of shame and a lot of guilt and
they're going to be verywithdrawn and they're going to
push people away Anytime.
Kids are, have behaviors thatdon't make sense.
They're acting out, they'redoing destructive things to
themselves, things that you'rejust saying.
Why would they do that?
(15:40):
There may be something going onthat they're trying to hide
from.
There were things as obviousfor my husband as he not wanting
to have the closet doors on hiscloset, never having the door
closed yeah, so things like that.
(16:00):
And then I think that a lot ofthe behavioral things like I
said, just think of the shameand the guilt and the need to
push people away is a reallygood telltale sign.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, I will also
throw in there again, as an ER
provider, one of the telltalesigns.
You do kind of create a sixthsense almost when you work in
the ER.
But for us, for those of youlistening and watching who have
experience with kids or workwith kids interestingly it's
actually when a kid would notcry so like their response was
disproportionate to the injurythat we were seeing them for,
(16:36):
was always a red flag to me.
The kid that was like kicking,screaming and over the top,
quote unquote dramatic.
I was not concerned about.
It was the one who was reallyquiet and not responding
appropriately, and it's usuallyfear-based because they've been
trained to not respond or elsethey might get more pain.
So I also throw that out thereas something, and in some cases.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I think they seek
that pain.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yes, sure yeah,
especially as they get older, I
think.
As they get older, I think,that that is a mechanism.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
That's a great point.
Yes, yeah, fascinating, becauseyou know, my husband's body is
a disaster because he was risky.
That was one of those thingsthat he was almost in a way.
If I die this way, at least Iwent out as a hero.
So taking physical risks is isis definitely something.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, and I also, you
know, I've heard patients say
too that they just want to feelsomething.
So some of it's self-inflictedfor punishment, but then some of
it and I can understand this.
I mean just, you know, at a verybasic level, it's like when you
are traumatized or the emotionsare so deep, you want to flip
them off for so long because ithurts too much, but then you
(17:57):
have this weird inverse reactionwhere it's like you're turned
off but you also want to feelsomething, but then
self-inflicting harm is alsosomething you can control to a
degree, and so it's like feeling, but at your own, uh, yes,
trying not to feel that pain.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah Feel the
physical pain.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yes, Something else.
Yeah, oh, heavy, heavy stuff.
I like want to cry every singletime I think about this.
But you know, theseconversations need to happen
because there are people livingwith this pain all of the time,
and that might be you listening,it might be a loved one that
you know, um, so, yeah, theseconversations need to happen.
(18:40):
What so?
I interrupted your story topause on on this point.
But you know, you, yourhusband's finally able to
acknowledge to himself, to you,this pain that has happened.
And then what happens next?
What are the next steps for youguys?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
So someone who
doesn't know that much about you
know trauma and trauma healing.
I was under the understandingoh right, we found this thing.
You know that I couldn't put myfinger on.
We're just going to work reallyhard, we'll get some counseling
for a year or two and thenwe're going to be golden.
I found out that was very naiveand that is not how trauma
(19:19):
recovery works and it usuallythings get worse, actually when
the trauma is acknowledged,before they get better.
And I also realized that thereis a startling lack of resources
for spouses who are supportingsomeone who has had an abusive
(19:44):
past.
And I couldn't find anything.
I found little articles, youknow, online.
They were very superficial.
So we put together a team ofsupport.
We had a team and we were ableto work through it and about
eight years of working on it andtrying new things, I realized I
(20:04):
came to this point.
I think I think we made it, Ithink we have the tools to deal
with this and that at that pointI was like I need to be that,
that person that puts theseresources out there, all this
research, I've done all thethings.
I've tried, put it all in oneplace and create this community
(20:26):
to stop the silence of thesespouses that are feeling bad
about saying that they'restruggling when their partner is
in such pain.
It's just a different situationthat normal techniques don't
work with, and we need to worktogether to make sure that we
can do a better job in ourrelationships.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
How did you implement
some of these strategies with
your kids, because what wehaven't touched on yet is the
kids of these marriages.
Is there any tips that you cangive in also helping your
children walk through?
And it's so tough becausethere's, I'm sure,
age-appropriate conversationsthat need to happen.
(21:16):
But what advice would you giveto that woman who is also trying
to navigate, explaining traumaor helping her child kind of
wrestle with some of thesetensions that they surely feel
in the home but they're just notsure what to do with it?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
That is such a good
point, and it does change
depending on the age, of course.
So when we were in the midst ofthis terrible chaos, I had a
toddler, so three, and thenBrinley was about five or six,
our stepdaughter, and werealized that, just like the
spouse feels blamed and feelslike they're doing all this
(22:00):
wrong stuff, so do your kids,and so we realized pretty early
on in the healing process thatwe needed to sit them down and
give them some sort ofinformation and really reiterate
again and again that none ofthis is their fault, this is not
your fault.
(22:21):
We are working on it.
And we did say we did tell themthat there are really bad
people out in the world that doreally bad things, and there
were some people that did reallybad things to your dad, and he
is working on acknowledging that, how that affected him, as well
(22:42):
as trying to make those peoplepay for what they did.
So that was the wording we usewith our little kids.
The toddler probably doesn'tdidn't acknowledge much of that,
the six-year-old probably did,and then we did that
periodically throughout,especially when things would get
would get really chaotic, butconstantly telling them it's not
(23:04):
your fault, you know that's thekey.
That's the key.
And then, as they get older,then you can do a lot more of
okay.
The reason that your daddy wasresponding that way is because
he was triggered from whathappened to him in the past.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
So we're very honest,
trying to educate our kids,
yeah, and I love that, and Ithink the honesty piece, it's
that level of transparency thatis so crucial across the board
and obviously the ageappropriate, and it's not like
every single person needs toknow every single detail.
But, like you said, when you'recreating that culture of
(23:39):
transparency in your home, whichagain started with your husband
being willing to take that step, it really does kind of strip
some of the power away from theshame and the guilt.
And so, you know, what I'mhearing is that's almost like
step number one is just inanything being transparent about
(24:00):
what we feel is a shortcoming,like let's just own it,
literally the reason for thename of the podcast.
You know, it is in thatembracing of our imperfection
and our mistakes that we trulyempower transformation and a
life of freedom and joy.
And so his story is such abeautiful, beautiful example,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
It absolutely
released the power that, that
secret, that that shame thatthat guilt had it, released it
into the world and took it offhis shoulders.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And the irony is the story thatwe hear over and over again.
You guys those of you listeningand watching who are already
struggling with that one thing,and you're thinking like I
cannot tell somebody this, Ican't do it.
Here's what's happening.
Whether you realize it or not,you're actually isolating
yourself.
You're creating more loneliness, more devastation in your life.
(24:52):
You might just be surprised howpeople actually react to what
you feel like is an impossiblething to bring to light.
I hope that you are shocked bythe level of compassion that you
do find when you bring it tolight, because that, ultimately,
it just keeps you alone.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
That was one of the
things that I did want people to
know that may be out there withthat.
A terrible secret is that your,your spouse, your partner, we
can handle it.
Whatever happened to you, wecan handle it.
Don't worry about us.
It's holding the wholerelationship back by keeping
that secret and we can handle itand you don't need to handle it
(25:33):
alone.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Say that one more
time, just say it one more time.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
We can handle the
truth.
You don't have to do this alone.
For the first time ever, justreach out and let what needs to
happen happen.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Amen.
In a minute we're going to diveinto Danielle's expert advice
on how to navigate a spouse'shealing from childhood trauma.
We're going to talk about thisincredible framework that she's
created, but first, nothing likea pivot like this.
We're going to play a round ofwould you rather, let's do that
that's what we do here.
We cry and then we laugh on thesame, on the same hour.
(26:15):
Okay, would you rather decorateor do a craft?
You have an afternoon.
Okay, you'd rather decorate ordo a craft.
You have an afternoon.
Okay, you'd rather decorate.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Is there a season
that you're like?
I'm so excited to decorate?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Ooh, we love
Halloween.
They're the Halloweeners.
Some people are like it's sofunny, you're like, you like
your own culture.
There's this subculture ofpeople who, just my brother,
loves decorating for Halloween.
It's like their thing.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yes, and our
neighborhood is really fun and
so we kind of try and outdo eachother with the.
So that's pretty, I love that.
Obviously my daughter lovesChristmas, Christmas decorating.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
So we love that.
That's so fun.
This is where, like mypractical, I'm like I don't for
one night, I have like nodecorating for Halloween because
I'm so overly efficient with mylife.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I get it.
Yes, I love Halloween.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
I'm like why would I
spend all the time Anyway?
So kudos to you guys who arejust living.
It's one night, live it up.
Yes, yes, would you rathercoffee or tea?
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yes, yes, would you
rather coffee or tea.
Oh, I'm coffee.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
A hundred percent,
yeah, yeah.
What do you put creamer in itLike?
Do you have your ideal cup of?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Joe, oh yes, half and
half, with cinnamon on top, ooh
.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Delicious Two cups.
You have a favorite um coffeehouse Like this is your ideal
cup of coffee.
Like to buy from somewhere.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I do love the
Americano, you know, with a lot
of cream.
I'm like extra, extra and thenon top.
But I do love a great mocha too.
Yeah, With dark chocolate.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I'm drooling.
I'm actually drinking tea rightnow, but I'm a coffee lover
inside and out.
Would you rather cake or pie?
Oh cake, 100%.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Favorite cake.
I'm not a big pie fan, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
This is always what
we hear Always.
It's crazy.
It's such a fascinating.
People are like cake.
It's really one or the other.
They definitely prefer one orthe other.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
There's rarely a.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Hmm, let me think
about it.
Yes, a hundred percent cake.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah, what's your
favorite cake?
I used to just wouldn't haveany cake unless it was chocolate
.
My whole life, until now I'm.
I'm a white chalk, I'm a whitewhite cake.
Oh, a white, yeah, with whitefrosting.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
All of a sudden, it's
totally changed for me.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
I mean, her life has
been transformed in so many ways
, including cake, yeah, but nowthat's my go-to.
Now I just want white cake withwhite frosting.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
That's awesome.
I love that.
Um, okay, would you rather apersonal yacht or a private jet?
Speaker 2 (29:08):
That's a tough one.
I love the idea of both, but Iwould go with the private jet.
I do like to travel.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
And where's your
family going?
You're taking your private jetexpenses, don't matter where you
guys headed.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, that's
interesting because my kids are
old, so they're 12 and 16 now,so very different.
So really I think that opens upthe world, you know, for us,
and so I would probably takethem internationally.
I love the idea of Italy orGreece for them.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I think they would
appreciate the history now.
Yeah, yeah, well, I'm coming,I'm coming with you.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yes, you have this
great quote in the book.
It says recovery is a process,not a journey with an end result
.
I love this framework because,as we're about to talk about
literally your framework, butthe foundation of it being this
concept, I think it's such animportant one because we live in
a culture of hurry up and so wejust have a hard time being
(30:16):
patient for anything, whether itbe our food or our
relationships or anything.
So I love this concept thatit's a process.
It's not going to be a quickfix, but you are providing a
framework to hopefully helpsomeone get there a little
faster than somebody who doesnot have it.
(30:36):
So you created this wife careframework.
Tell us a little bit about that, and you talk about it in the
book.
You guys, I've not talked aboutthe book enough because we're
so busy talking.
I just threw it on the floor,but she talks about all of this,
too, in the book.
So it's a fantastic that andmore, but tell us about the wife
care framework.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Yeah.
So essentially, what I foundwas I looked back and I'm like
how did I end up getting throughthis?
What would I tell someone whowas in that same situation that
I was exhausted at their wit'send.
What would I say?
You need to do this first, thisnext, this next in order to get
(31:17):
there.
And what I found which is socool about this is that I can
get you those tools faster thanI ever did.
But guess what?
The trauma triggers never goaway.
With a lot of work and healing,they can start to understand
their triggers better andrespond to them better.
(31:37):
But guess what?
You're going to get a teenagereventually along the way, or a
loss in the family, and you'regoing to have a whole new set of
triggers that come up.
And so the idea of my programis really to give you the tools
that will take you in the longhaul.
That quote right, it's not anend game.
It's having all of thesetechniques and tools and your
(31:59):
support system for the long haulso that when you do start to
have issues again or thingsstart to bubble up, you can tap
into that and you know what todo this time.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
So that's almost like
changing the narrative, that
it's almost like managing achronic disease where there's
not a cure, but you can manageit so that you can still thrive.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Yes, that perfectly
said.
That is exactly it.
And so the WIFE care.
The C stands for comprehendingchildhood trauma.
So you have to become an expertin understanding how the trauma
survivor's brain works andidentifying the triggers and the
responses that are occurring inyour relationship, and then you
(32:41):
need to separate yourself fromthem.
So the A really means accessingthe support that you need.
This is not something you canput a bandaid on and it will be
fixed.
You will need help.
You don't have the as a wife.
You cannot be the counselor foryour husband.
You cannot do this on your own.
(33:01):
You are going to be exhaustedwith the chaos, so you need a
support team.
And then the R stands forresilience building through
self-care.
So the more tired and the moreexhausted and burned out you are
, the more reactive you are tothe triggers, and so you want to
take care of yourself so thatyou can actually use the
(33:24):
techniques and tools that I'mgoing to teach you with the E,
which is establishing healthierpatterns in your relationship.
So that is the care process,and, done in that order, you can
make a huge difference.
These small steps make bigresults.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I love that you
mentioned the E is establishing
processes to help heal therelationship is, I think, what I
heard you say.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
And you have a
community.
So if someone's listening andalso you guys, save this episode
, share this episode.
This is one of those thingswhere this is meant to be a
resource in that arsenal.
This is a tool for you to tuckaway.
Maybe you're in a life group orsomething at your church and
you're meeting somebody who hasthis type of underlying.
(34:14):
Just save this episode forlater so that you have this
arsenal or have this tool inyour tool belt, if you will, to
be able to share.
But tell us how you help people, so you're teaching them in
this program.
Is it like a six week program?
Is it a community Like what isthe model that you're helping
(34:36):
women with?
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, so I have
several things.
First of all, I have the book,and then I also have a
survivor's playbook and that islike the get started now version
of my program.
So I have that on my websiteand then I do.
I have a 12 week program whereI work individually with wives
on these techniques, buildingthe support team and meeting
(35:00):
with them and really tryingthings, scripting things out
with them as to what to say whenthe triggers occur.
It's just an amazing program ofaccountability.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
And I'm reading.
So we'll make sure all theselinks, of course, are included
in the show notes and the bookis the first place that you want
to start.
This is an easy, non-invasiveway of taking that first step.
It's called Resilient Wives andthat will, of course, be linked
in the show notes and she talksabout it's called a survivor's
playbook for wives Everythingyou need to know, do and say to
(35:36):
manage the emotional minefield,find balance and regain
self-worth and happiness whilenavigating your partner's
childhood trauma.
Her website isdaniellesebastiancom.
She's got incredible freebies.
One is Spotting the Signs.
It's a download, so literallywhat we talked about.
If you're like, oh my gosh, Ican't remember all that,
(35:57):
download this Again.
This is stuff for you to shareand the book, again, is such a
great place to start.
We want to equip you guys and Iknow for many of you it's
already a really scary step Book.
So easy.
It's the first step movingforward.
People aren't going to evenknow that you're trying to grow
and heal in this way.
So the book is a great way tostart and then hopefully it'll
(36:18):
give you if this podcast hasn'talready a little bit more of
that sense of I can do this alittle bit more of that sense of
I can do this, I'm not alone,and empower you the resources to
help someone else.
Danielle, where else can peoplefind you and follow you?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yes, I am on
Instagram and Facebook as well
and I have a blog on my websitewhere you can get some personal
techniques from me.
So all those places, I reallyappreciate you putting all those
out because I I agree with you.
I want people to share thisbecause a lot of us know someone
who's struggling.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah, I just I pray
God's blessing over your heart,
your home.
Adam, thank you again for yourbravery.
Truly, you are real lifesuperhero and it was such an
honor to have you here.
Thank you so much.