Whether you're navigating family estrangement or striving to build strong relationships with your children at any age, this conversation with estrangement coach Sally Harris offers expert insight on understanding, healing, and rebuilding. Her journey proves that joy and purpose are possible—whether reconciliation happens or not.
Sally Harris has helped thousands of moms estranged from their children, find healing and move forward with peace—even if reconciliation hasn’t happened. Her coaching, online programs, and YouTube resources provide the guidance and support moms need to heal and rebuild.
🔗 Take the EmpowerMom Quiz to assess your support needs and begin your healing journey: https://www.sally-harris.com/
🔗 Watch Sally’s Free YouTube Videos for practical guidance and encouragement: https://www.youtube.com/@sallyharriscoaching
🔗 Book a Discovery Call: http://www.sally-harris.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're in control of the situations.
We sometimes even speak forthem.
We're not being the consultantparent, we're being the
helicopter, we're doing allthese things, but then there
they sit, not knowing who theyare right, expecting you to fix
everything.
But then, all of a sudden, theybecome an adult and we find
ourselves with issues withcommunication with them.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hi Rais Rising Stars, welcome to today's live
training and member-only Q&A andif you are tuning in later via
the Rise Renewed podcast,welcome.
We are so glad that you're here.
If you are struggling withfamily estrangement, whether
from an adult, a child, parentor another loved one, you are
not alone.
Our guest today is Sally Harris, and Sally has dedicated her
(00:54):
life to helping moms navigatethe heartbreak of estrangement
while reclaiming their own joy,identity and purpose.
With over a thousand hours ofcoaching, more than 1.7 million
YouTube views and thousandsserved, she is a beacon of hope
for anyone feeling lost in thepain of a fractured family
relationship.
From her own journey ofovercoming addiction, depression
(01:15):
and estrangement from her owndaughter, she is here to share
her expert advice on moving fromheartbreak to hope without
waiting for others to changefirst.
Welcome Estrangement CoachSally Harris, hi thank you so
much for having me.
It is such an honor to have youhere.
I met Sally at a businessconference and we were out to
(01:40):
dinner and talking and you know,what you do is so specific and
niched down and not somethingthat a lot of people are openly
looking for.
Right.
It's like one of those thingswhere there's so many women who
(02:01):
need what you do and some ofthem may or may not even be
willing to acknowledge it tothemselves.
So you just have such a unique,a unique service that you offer
and I think, before we getfurther into what you do, I
would love to hear more aboutyour story and how you got to
(02:22):
where you are and and speakingto that woman who might be
listening right now, who maybedoesn't even realize that she's
estranged, which sounds crazy,but I think there are more
people in fracturedrelationships than they realize.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Absolutely, absolutely Well, and that's a
great segue too, because a lotof people will say no-transcript
(03:09):
.
There was 10 years from I saystart to finish, that we
navigated this with my daughterand you know I always the best
way to describe it is when herlife was spiraling out of
control, so did mine, and so,because she was spiraling, so
was I.
I turned to alcohol.
(03:30):
A lot of bad habits, wasn'ttaking care of myself, was
isolating, like you mentioned, alot of moms they don't even
realize what they're doing tothemselves when they do that.
So, like I said, it might bejust be a fractured relationship
.
It could be something that will, you know, mend itself in a
very short period of time, andit might not.
(03:51):
But my biggest thing is wecan't lose hope.
So I navigated this for many,many years and I always tell my
clients I did everything wrongso I can teach you to do
everything right, amen.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Amen, yeah, what on that note name?
I'm putting you on the spot,but if you could say the top
three things that you did wrongand you see a lot of others
doing wrong before we talk aboutwhat you do right, first tell
us what three things maybe weredone wrong.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Well, number one is I tried to.
Well, I didn't try to.
I did numb my pain.
I didn't want to deal with thereality of what was happening
and so I turned to alcohol andthat was a slippery slope that I
never expected it to be.
What started out, as you know,a couple glasses of wine and do
(04:50):
a couple bottles of wine on adaily basis.
And so that was the first one,which carried over into
everything else, health wise andeverything.
The second would probably beperceived of control.
We have moms have thisperception that we have control
over the situation and that wecan fix it, and it's a perceived
(05:13):
lack of control, really, and ittakes time to allow yourself to
really understand that andlearn more about that and to
accept that you don't have thecontrol that you had when they
were little and we're you knowthe days where you were
responsible for fixing all theirproblems and putting the
(05:36):
band-aids on and doing all thethings that we all did or are
doing.
But these are grown-up problems.
You know these are.
We're talking adult childrenhere, adult kids, adult children
.
So that was another big one.
The other would be isolating.
Honestly, I isolated for a longtime family, close friends, but
(06:07):
I also would have thatexpectation that they were
supposed to help me fix it andthat they were supposed to
understand what I was goingthrough, when, I promise you,
nobody understood what I wasgoing through.
And as a human being, we tend toexpect those people closest to
us to help us navigate it, Likeif you were going through a
divorce or your parent died oranything any other struggle that
(06:29):
we have in life.
This situation is the mostheartbreaking, in my opinion,
besides the loss of a childaltogether, this is one of the
most heartbreaking situationsand journeys that we can find
ourselves on.
And so to be able to have theright people around you and I
(06:52):
quickly learned, after pushingaway some friends even, and
almost getting a divorce andisolating my other kids
sometimes because I was soconsumed with talking about just
the one problem, the onesituation that I couldn't fix.
So the isolation really hurtswhen you don't have the right
(07:15):
people around you.
And I always say the peopleclosest to you are not going to
be the ones to help you throughthis.
We expect them to be justlogically like well, of course
that's my spouse or my bestfriend and they can be a beacon
of light and support, butthey're not going to be the one
to guide you through it.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Talk a little bit about.
I mean, I think this isapplicable for a lot of things
that you're about to addressright here.
But this idea of isolation andthen turning what I hear you
saying the people that you'reclosest to I think what's also
being said there is the peoplethat you're most comfortable
with, and I think one of I mean,I have been convicted of this,
(07:59):
I have seen this in my own lifewhere it's not at all wrong to
have those people that you'rereally comfortable with be your
accountability, be the ones whoare going to hold you up when
you can't stand yourself.
I think is something that a lotof us miss is that, in order to
(08:24):
see significant change, we haveto significantly change what
we're doing.
So it's like if we keep goingto the same people for help,
then I'm not sure how we'regoing to expect a different
outcome as well.
(08:45):
So it's sort of that.
I think what you're saying likeI'm trying to sort of spit that
out in a way that I think a lotof us need to hear, that we
might not be thinking about istalk to me a little bit about
this idea of getting the rightsupport, finding the right
people, because we're not sayingdon't stay open and vulnerable
(09:06):
with the people you'recomfortable with, but where do
we settle?
And still isolate ourselves,even if we're talking to people
that we're close to.
What are we missing?
Exactly what?
Speaker 1 (09:19):
you just said, because we need to be open to
new advice, and those samepeople in your world unless
they're out there learning thesetools or learning these
strategies, most likely theyhaven't been through anything
like this before, and so Ibelieve it's just like anything
else that we go through.
You need to navigate withsomeone who's been there,
(09:44):
because we have the roadmap.
Yeah, you know, and, like Isaid, I made.
I made the mistakes, but then Iturned it around and I started
doing the right things and I sawresults.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah, yeah, and I think too it's, it's the wisdom
to know sort of how differentpeople serve you in your life
and how you serve other peopleas well.
It's like I can think right nowof certain people who, it's
like they serve this role in mylife in terms of, like this
(10:21):
person is going to help hold meaccountable.
She's going to call me outbecause she's known me for 5,000
years you know what I mean Likeshe's been there forever.
There's that, there's that um,deep connection.
It's like I'm I'm safe there,um.
But then there's other peoplewho might be able to call me out
in different ways because thereisn't years and years of
(10:42):
history and they can see me as Iam today without any
assumptions of who I'm supposedto be, where I came from, who I
was, and they can just point outthings that maybe that other
person who's known me foreverwould miss, because they have
known me for so long and theyknow who I was and who I should
be, type of a thing.
So I think isolation whatneither Sally or I are saying to
(11:08):
be clear, because I think a lotof us get this wrong.
It doesn't mean you're justsitting in your room or in your
house and not talking to people.
Exactly, exactly.
You might be posting every dayon Facebook about your struggles
and still be completelyisolated.
You might be talking to friendsat church every Sunday and
(11:28):
still be isolating yourselfbecause you're not actually
stepping out of your comfortzone to seek vulnerable,
exposing growth.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Exactly, and that's hard, and nothing changes if
nothing changes, right?
Yes, as you know.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yes, including the people that we're talking to I.
Um, you also mentioned somethingthat I just want to touch on
here.
You know many of us here in theearly morning habit community
are and I'm sure many womenlistening are raising younger or
school aged children, and thatcould be anywhere from third
grade up through college maybe.
(12:06):
I'm curious based on yourexperience working with so many
women, your own personalexperience, what insights would
you share to help us fosterthese relationships and possibly
prevent estrangement?
Right the like hindsight visionis 2020.
(12:28):
Are there any patterns that youhave uncovered for yourself and
also for a lot of these othermoms that you work with, that we
should be mindful of andproactive about today?
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Yes, I love that you asked that because I'm so
passionate about that.
Eventually, this will becomepart of my business because I
want to be proactive.
Right now, I had to meet myselfwhere I was at and now I meet
other women where they're at.
But, you're right, how do weprevent it?
Well, it's not 100% preventablebecause your children are their
(13:00):
own person with free will ownperson with free will right and
up to a certain age.
We are the most powerfulinfluence over our kids.
We're everything to them and asa mom, you can't imagine not
being that person anymore.
But we have to realize that asthey grow they're in school they
have other influences as theygrow even more.
(13:23):
You've got social media, you'vegot teachers.
Kids, like all the other peoplein their world, start to
influence them.
Some you will know about andsome you won't.
As much as we try to keep thatcohesive, like mom knows
everything, like trying tocontrol the atmosphere here,
just trying to protect them andkeep them safe, that's our job.
(13:44):
But I think I know one thingthat I did wrong is two things.
Number one for those of yourmoms that maybe come from a
divorce or just a brokenmarriage, broken family in
general, I tried to make up forthat.
(14:04):
I tried to be mom and dad,because I was a single mom for
six years, and this is when theywere younger.
But it wasn't until many yearslater I realized that I could
not fill that space of dad and Icertainly couldn't be Jesus,
right, amen.
So.
(14:25):
But we try to do everything.
It's like it's okay that he'snot around, it's okay he doesn't
do visitation, because I can beboth parents, I love them
enough for both of us and it'sjust not reality.
There's still a hole in theirheart from a fractured parental
relationship.
I see this all the time nowwith the grown kids.
(14:47):
So there's that piece.
But also I feel like therebecomes an age probably more
around junior, high-ish, forsure, high school where we have
to start letting go a little bitand stop keeping the range so
tight where we're trying tocontrol everything that they do
(15:09):
and still keeping all thoseparameters around everything.
Because I know now that if mykids were going to fall, I
wanted them to do it under myroof.
If they were going to makemistakes, I wanted it to be
while they were still at home.
Now, again, controlling, youknow who they're hanging out
with, who their friends are.
You can only do that to acertain degree.
(15:31):
I thought I had that all takencare of and I was so wrong.
You know, hidden things stayhidden, right, even when you
think you've got everythingunder control.
You just we don't.
And so, just keeping an eye onthose reins and making sure that
you know, I believe my daughterwas 16 when I learned about
(15:53):
love and logic.
I believe my daughter was 16when I learned about love and
logic.
You ever heard of that?
No, no, I can't remember theauthor, but there's a book,
there's DVDs, there's all thethings Amazing.
It's about how to be aconsultant parent, not a
helicopter mom, not a drillsergeant, which I think I was
(16:16):
those two, teaching them how tothink for themselves and don't
tell them what to do all thetime.
Let them make some mistakes sothey can learn from it, because
I don't know about you, butthat's where I've learned.
All of the growth that I've hadin my life came from some
really crappy mistakes.
But that's how we grow and ourkids are no different.
And when they realize like, ohyeah, I remember, you know what.
(16:38):
But mom, let me take that, youknow, not a dangerous path, but
my mom.
But, mom, let me do this orthat.
You know and I learned from it,and so it's just navigating
that that consultant likehelping them think for
themselves, make decisions, andfor every decision there's a
consequence and we all know that.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yeah, yeah, you know it's interesting.
You talked about I can't be.
You talked about from aperspective of a fractured
marriage, possibly in raisingand helping prevent estrangement
from a child.
You mentioned this idea of Iwish I had recognized I can't be
dad and I can't be Jesus as mom, and you know I'm going to
(17:22):
suggest that we do this even ifwe're not in a divorced
situation.
But there's a lot of us thatstill and it comes down to
control are very possibly guiltyof trying to fill in the gaps
that we think might exist in ourspouse, or fill in the gaps
(17:46):
where we think might exist intheir spiritual walk, and very
much run the risk of playing theroles that we're not supposed
to play.
And, like you said, when notallowing for just ultimately,
(18:06):
consequences might even be toostrong of a word for some of it,
but just simply that idea ofbeing still and ultimately
trusting that, like you justsaid, our children have been
given the gift of free will andespecially as they get older,
you know what does it look liketo?
Yeah, I like the consultantconcept, especially as they get
(18:30):
older.
You know, in all things, inlike life choices, but also in
spiritual ones, where it's likewe have to make sure they don't
feel like they are doing thethings they're supposed to do,
simply because that's what willmake us happy, versus letting
them struggle, even if it causesus pain, which leads to the
(18:52):
second thing you said.
Hidden things stay hidden and Ithink a lot of times is because
we want to avoid hurting people.
Like at its heart is a goodintention.
However, are we, as moms,allowing for our kids to hurt
themselves and ultimately hurtus?
Because that's when hiddenthings really stay hidden, right
, right, absolutely.
Because that's when hiddenthings really stay hidden, right
(19:14):
, right, absolutely.
One of the other things thatyou talk about is this idea that
reconciliation isn't the goal.
Personal transformation issuggest that this concept is
true of us, whether we have anestranged relationship with a
family member or whether we'retrying to create healthy
(19:39):
relationships.
Now, this whole concept isstill crucial because I think it
still speaks to this letting gopiece and controlling the
things we can and letting go ofthe things that we can't.
So talk to me a little bitabout no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Well, the biggest thing that I see with the moms
that I serve and this issomething I learned myself and
it sounds really basic, but itcan solve so many relationship
issues is communication,communication.
(20:38):
So, as mom, we go backwardslike we were saying how we're in
control of the situations.
We sometimes even speak forthem.
We're not being the consultantparent, we're being the
helicopter, we're doing allthese things.
But then there they sit with,not knowing who they are right,
expecting you to fix everything.
But then all of a sudden theybecome an adult and we find
(21:00):
ourselves with issues withcommunication with them.
So at the end of the day, itreally boils down to the
personal transformation happenswhen the mom has to look in the
mirror and say what can I change?
Because a relationship is twopeople.
Even when it's your child, it'sstill a relationship.
It takes two people.
We count ourselves as one withour kids so much because they're
(21:28):
hooked to our hip for so manyyears, right, and then here they
are, navigating their own world, sometimes successfully,
sometimes not.
There's different reasons whythese, why these estrangements
happen, but sometimes they wantto try to realize, they want to
get out and release themselvesfrom the family so they know
(21:48):
what they're made of becausethey haven't been given that
opportunity and so to be able to, because they haven't been
given that opportunity, and soto be able to navigate the
relationship with them on thatmore of that consultant level,
as a younger child, but even asan adult.
So making sure we're not givingunsolicited advice, right, this
(22:11):
becomes an adultultrelationship, not a parent-child
.
Yeah, you know, these are theover 18 I'm speaking of, and so
navigating that can be reallyhard and it takes adjustment.
But I just shared last night inmy group I had a one-on-one
(22:31):
client and she shared with me.
We had just finished up ourtime together and that's exactly
the main thing we worked onwith her was to not push her son
before he was ready tocommunicate and to respect the
space and while she was waiting.
She doesn't just sit and waitand isolate and do the things
(22:52):
that we were talking about.
This is where she stands up,looks in the mirror, is like,
okay, what can I work on aboutme?
And so she did all these things.
She did that and now her sonfast forward these several
months together.
She was able to hear from himin a text and it said thank you
for giving me the space that Ineeded to allow myself to work
(23:14):
through X, y, z.
It has helped tremendously.
So she just has that bond backwith her son that she didn't
have a few months ago.
Why?
Because she wasn't pushing, shewas letting him navigate
whatever it was that he neededto navigate.
Even though it hurt and you feelrejected from your son or your
(23:34):
daughter and it's difficult, youwant to rush in there and fix
it.
And if it's not happening fastenough, that's typically what I
see is they're rushing in,they're sending letters, they're
calling, they're textingnonstop.
And I'll be honest,unfortunately and I'm not
against therapy, but I have seenthere's good therapists, bad
(23:56):
therapists, just like anythingelse in the world, right.
But in the last several years Ihave seen so many people come
to me who's either they were intherapy or their child was in
therapy, and they receive a noteor a letter from their child
which is completely scripted youcan tell just by reading it.
(24:18):
It's got all the buzzwords andtelling mom that I need a pause,
I need a break.
I'm putting boundaries aroundyou Because nowadays this is
what's happening.
People are going to get help andinstead of trying to reconcile
the family, they just if someonedoesn't agree with you, your
belief system, how you want tolive your life, just cut them
(24:41):
out.
It doesn't matter that it'sfamily, and so even those
situations which are so dire, sohard, you know, I've seen a lot
of adult children renounce ordenounce their faith, how they
were raised.
They literally take classes todo it and it's devastating for
(25:06):
the moms.
But even some of those I've seencome around.
But it takes time, takespatience, and when the mom can
sit there and realize, okay, Ineed to work on this, I need to
grow, I need personal growthmyself, I need to focus on my
own hobbies, the things that Ilove to do.
I need to focus on my health,because if I don't get my
thoughts under control, myphysical health is going to go
(25:27):
down the tubes, which I see itall the time and it happened to
me and it happened to me.
And so just navigating all ofthose things are just so
important and they seemsimplistic, but that person in
your family or best friendprobably is not giving you that
kind of guidance and walkingthrough step-by-step of when to
pause, cause a lot of people, asa mom, we just think well, just
(25:51):
keep calling him, just text him, you know, and every family is
a little bit different, so thiscertainly is not a cookie cutter
approach for people.
You know a lot, of, a lot ofvariables for sure, as you're
talking, I'm hearing a couplethings.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
One you mentioned communication, um, and I mean I
have been trying to work on thiseven now with my kids being 12,
10, and 7, but trying to getbetter at leading with questions
, not statements, because peoplewon't be hearing this and being
(26:29):
like, okay, how, like, what doI do?
What does communication changelook like?
And I won't speak for Sally,but for myself.
You know this idea of with thatconsultant.
It's like helping them thinkindependently while also making
them feel seen and cared forsometimes just requires the art
(26:50):
of asking better questions, andwith that then comes a
willingness to hear the answerand a willingness to possibly
just be silent and not thengiven this is where it's hard
for me no shocker to anyoneprobably listening to be silent
then when they respond and I'mlike wait, but I have all these
(27:14):
words of wisdom for you, andsometimes it's just allowing
yourself to let them processwithout feeling the need to
speak into it, and maybe it'sjust ending it with well, let's
pray about that together, right,it's leaving it open-ended and
also then making it a verypersonal sense of let's bring
this to the Lord.
You're not providing an answer,let's ask the Lord to guide it,
(27:36):
and I'm trying to maybe hit twothings with this.
For moms, listening and I thinkthis is true for your older
children too is in general, Ithink we need to get better
about asking questions.
We need to get better aboutallowing the conversation to be
open-ended, meaning we're notclosing it with our thoughts and
what we think they should do.
And third, we should be allowingthem to also feel the very real
(28:02):
need to be bringing it beforethe Lord and that they see us
leading in that way where we'renot leading the answer.
We are saying Lord, can youspeak into this?
Give us wisdom, yeah, to makeit feel like there's more of
that, that partnership, andultimately making the Lord a
(28:26):
part of it, in a way where weand our children have to hear
from him rather than just ourown wisdom as opposed to well,
this is what you do because theBible said it, and we never even
bring the Lord into theconversation.
It's like, well, the Bible saidit, you know, well, I pray
about it, or we pray to aspecific end rather than just
give us wisdom.
So I don't know.
(28:46):
As I'm listening, I'm thinkingeven now, at this age, you know
the challenge to be doing that,but maybe even for the adults,
the adult children, maybesometimes it needs to be that
way too.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, I think one of the biggest things and this
could apply with your kids atwhatever age you feel
appropriate but sometimes thebest way for the communication
with your child is when theystart to tell you something,
especially if you're a mom whowants to fix it and they're
traditionally used to you comingin and rescuing.
(29:19):
What if, rather, we said, okay,it sounds like you've got
something going on.
Do you want me to just listenor do you want my advice?
Because it's really just, theyjust want to be heard.
I find that, especially withand I'm sure it's no different
with our little ones, right, Icertainly didn't have all those
(29:41):
skills when my kids were little.
I certainly didn't have allthose skills when my kids were
little.
So it's great stuff.
It's great stuff because, um,especially if you start young,
like you said, the preventionpiece, they're going to be
accustomed to that.
This is just how we handledissues.
This is how we handle problems,like you prayed about it.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
You ask God for wisdom.
Mom doesn't have all theanswers.
Amen, amen to that.
This mom certainly doesn't, atleast.
Well, and again, I would saythat this still applies to the
mom with adult children who arestrained because you need to
start like, if this is, ifyou're listening and you're like
, ok, but I don't have the youngkids, I'm already in this boat
you still need to be practicingthis, right, it's a rewiring.
(30:24):
So, even if that is you and it'syour estranged child, how about
start practicing this in yourfriendship, start practicing
this in your marriage.
When someone comes to you witha problem or comes to you with
you know there is no wrong placeto start here.
It's like these patterns existbeyond just our parenting and
(30:45):
are going to help us in allrelationships.
So, you know, even if you'relistening and that is you and
you have the older child, thethought would be start being
really attentive to your otherrelationships.
Do you actually jump in withall your thoughts and opinions
in your other relationships aswell?
Maybe there just needs to bemore silence and more wisdom and
(31:06):
more maybe even humility, tojust be like, oh, tell me more,
with with no, no sharing ofopinion.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
And the active listening.
Active listening I have a mom,I have a mom that that I coached
that.
She literally her daughter.
She practiced that with herdaughter and she actually took
notes while her daughter wastalking.
And her daughter didn't mind,she was just like I just want to
make sure that I'm hearing youcorrectly.
And her daughter actuallyrespected that.
And after the conversation shesaid you know what, mom, that is
(31:37):
the best conversation we haveever had.
Why?
Because the daughter felt heardand mom wasn't interjecting.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yes, yes, okay, I'm going to take it one step
further.
Ladies those of you listeningsocial media this is another one
that sometimes, if we want torewire, then I would also say
reevaluate how you respond onsocial media, because this is
also probably a reflection ofyour personal relationships.
If you are the one that feelslike you read something, you
(32:05):
disagree with it, you have torespond.
This is another great place topractice silence.
Let it air.
You do not need to respond onsocial media either.
Give it to the Lord, youresponding in a heated argument
on social media is not going tochange anything and it might
just create even moreinflammation, and you're not
rewiring patterns that clearlyexist in multiple areas.
(32:28):
So that's another thought thatcomes to mind.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
I love that I have a YouTube channel.
Need I say more?
Listen people need to take youradvice to heart.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yes, and she her YouTube.
What is your YouTube channelname?
By the way, she has a fantasticYouTube channel.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
It's under my name, sally Harris, sally.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Harris, yes, you definitely, definitely want to
check out Sally's YouTubechannel.
Um, the last thing that I wouldask is what are practical
action steps?
So let's get back to the momwho, like the woman that you
serve so well, who has thisestrangement with, with a child,
um, what one, two, three orjust like whatever, whatever
(33:14):
comes to mind.
What are practical things thatshe can do tomorrow?
Like, she listens to thisepisode, she watches it wherever
she's getting it.
What are the next best steps?
So, obviously you really wantto start to see change.
I highly recommend hiring Sally.
I'll say that because it shouldstill be said.
This is what she does for aliving.
(33:35):
But if you just need a nextstep for yourself, what would
you say she should do?
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Well, I would say first of all, if you don't mind
me giving an example of as faras a support system.
Number one for every single momis who's your support system?
Now, mind you, I fully believethey need a community, whether
it's mine or someone else's.
They need support from someonewho's been there with what
they're going through, but intheir real everyday life.
(34:07):
they need to find at least twopeople, just two.
Some may only find one, andthat's okay, but they need to
find at least two people who canbe their support system, who
are going to be empathetic.
They may not completelyunderstand, but there's no
judgment, there's no criticism.
I can call you 24-7 if I neededyou.
(34:27):
That may be a spouse, it may bea sister, it may be a friend,
because what happens is I usethe analogy of if you're on a
beautiful, large front porch andyou're sitting there and you
ask yourself these are thepeople, these are my people on
the front porch, these are thepeople that I can trust, that
(34:54):
what I tell them, it isn't goinganywhere.
Whether they can completelyidentify with what I'm going
through or not, they're justamazing humans in my life and I
would be lost without them.
Those are the people that areon your front porch.
Everyone else is out in yourfront yard your neighbors, your
co-workers, some of your family,right, whoever those people are
the acquaintances at church.
(35:14):
Because the people that are youneed to talk to about this need
to be on your front porch.
Why?
Because otherwise you're goingto go to church.
You're going to go to thegrocery store.
You're going to go wherever andpeople are going to.
To go to the grocery store.
You're going to go wherever andpeople are going to go.
How's Susie doing?
Has she come back yet?
Have you heard from her?
And you are going to.
You are going to relive thatstress over and over and over
again.
You need to have a blanketstatement for those folks,
(35:37):
because a they might really care, right, but you don't need to
explain this to anyone.
You keep this for your peoplethat are safe, because, let's
face it, there are a lot ofpeople that just want to gossip,
and so you need to removeyourself from those, from the
(35:58):
people in your front yard.
You, you, they're your friends,you like them, but they don't
have to be the people thatyou're going to go to for this.
They're your friends, you likethem, but they don't have to be
the people that you're going togo to for this.
So that community, the supportsystem, is crucial, because if
you don't identify who thosepeople are, you're doing what I
did, which was let's just telleverybody yeah, yeah, Right.
And it consumed every singlerelationship that I had, because
(36:22):
I had a one track mind and thatwas the only topic of
discussion that I really caredto have with anyone.
So it was overwhelming foreveryone involved and so I don't
recommend that.
But the other piece, second, is100% self-care.
Figure out what that is.
If you're not someone whoexercises, obviously it'd be in
your community figuring all ofthat is.
(36:42):
If you're not someone whoexercises, obviously it'd be in
your community figuring all ofthat out.
But even if you're just walking, you need to get outside, you
need to be in nature, you needto be able to have that.
Figuring out.
What is it that your body needsfor self-care?
For me, I learned many yearsago that it's massage.
I used to think, oh, that'sjust a frivolous expense or
(37:06):
whatever.
I'm like, oh no, this issomething I do every other week
and if I don't, I can feel it.
That is just a self-care piecethat I need.
For someone else it might begetting their nails done or
whatever it is Figuring out.
What are those pieces that youcan do that are not going to
take necessarily a lot of moneyor a lot of time, but you have
(37:28):
to start implementing that intoyour day because we have to.
Until we start doing that, howdo we control our thoughts If
we're not taking care ofourselves?
Those ruminating thoughts thatthey're having about their son
or daughter and the wholesituation is it overtakes them.
I would say 90% of the momsthat come to me for the very
first time already have healthissues.
(37:50):
They already have anxiety.
They already have depression oractual health, major health
issues as well.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, it's hard to downregulate your mind until we
downregulate our body.
I mean Jesus literally showedus this.
He met physical needs beforedownregulate our body.
I mean Jesus literally showedus this he met physical needs
before he even spoke to hearts.
I mean, you know, if the Lordof the universe is exhibiting
that for us, then we shouldprobably be doing the same for
ourselves, you know as beingable to meet our physical,
getting our bodies into a placewhere we can even process the
(38:22):
hard realities that exist in ahealthy, healthy manner.
And this is what's so beautifulabout, you know, I would say,
the way that God all causes toserve differently.
Because, ladies that's forthose of you that have not met
me and you're hearing me throughSally, because she shared, you
know, that's what we do here atearly morning habit.
We're literally a holisticself-care program.
You know, empowering busy,overwhelmed moms specifically to
(38:44):
sleep better, rise a littleearlier and start every day with
God's word in a workout.
It's literally that concept ofrevitalizing body and soul every
day so that you have theability to invest hard in
someone like Sally, with someonelike Sally to do the really
difficult work.
It just better positions you tohit the areas of hurt in our
(39:08):
hearts.
Where can people find you?
Where can they follow you andlearn more about you?
And for those who you are justthe right fit, which I know is
somebody listening and somebodywatching, where can they sign up
for your coaching?
Speaker 1 (39:25):
So, like I mentioned, I do have the YouTube channel.
It's under my name, sallyHarris.
Also, my website issally-harriscom and I do have a
discovery call, so if you'reinterested in coaching, you can
sign up for one of those calls.
Those buttons are all over mywebsite so you can navigate
there and learn more about thecoaching options and my podcast
(39:46):
on there.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Awesome.
We'll make sure all of thoselinks, of course, are included
in the show notes.
And let me pray us out and alsopray over Sally as well.
Lord, I thank you so much forthe work that Sally is doing and
, man, I just praise you for herstory, I praise you for her
daughter, I praise you for theway that you take what seems so
(40:11):
messy in our lives, the ashesthat we see, and you create such
unbelievable beauty.
And I pray for the mom, thedaughter, the son, the father,
the friend, whoever might belistening right now, who's
experiencing estrangement fromsomeone that they love.
We feel the tension becausethis is not how it was meant to
(40:32):
be, it's not how you designedrelationship, and so we feel
that brokenness and it doesweigh on us as it should and as
it will.
And I pray that you would givelight that Sally's words, that
you would speak through them,that there'd be a beacon of hope
, and that whoever's listeningright now, who needs it, would
just hang on to that, just grasponto it, cling to it, even if
(40:57):
it's just really small to holdon.
And, lord, I ask that you wouldhelp them to take a step
forward, whatever it looks likefor them, whether it's writing a
letter, whether it is reachingout to somebody, whether it is
maybe actually letting go alittle bit and stepping away and
being silent.
Maybe it's finding somebody whohas been there, somebody like
(41:21):
Sally, who can speak to themfrom a place of personal and
professional experience.
But, lord, I just prayultimately that whatever that
relationship is for the personlistening and watching that you
would provide healing.
Lord, we ask it, in the name ofJesus, that your presence would
be felt in that relationshipand that there would be a
(41:41):
turning to you, becausesometimes there is no more
hopeless feeling than brokenrelationship.
And I just ask that you wouldmake yourself known in those
moments and that you would workthrough your people.
Lord, thank you for yourpromise of faithfulness.
No matter how dark it seems,Lord, let the light break
through.
(42:01):
In the name of Jesus, we prayAmen, amen, thank you.
We're in control of the situations.
We sometimes even speak forthem.
We're not being the consultantparent, we're being the
helicopter, we're doing allthese things, but then there
they sit, not knowing who theyare right, expecting you to fix
everything.
But then, all of a sudden, theybecome an adult and we find
ourselves with issues withcommunication with them.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hi Rais Rising Stars, welcome to today's live
training and member-only Q&A andif you are tuning in later via
the Rise Renewed podcast,welcome.
We are so glad that you're here.
If you are struggling withfamily estrangement, whether
from an adult, a child, parentor another loved one, you are
not alone.
Our guest today is Sally Harris, and Sally has dedicated her
(00:54):
life to helping moms navigatethe heartbreak of estrangement
while reclaiming their own joy,identity and purpose.
With over a thousand hours ofcoaching, more than 1.7 million
YouTube views and thousandsserved, she is a beacon of hope
for anyone feeling lost in thepain of a fractured family
relationship.
From her own journey ofovercoming addiction, depression
(01:15):
and estrangement from her owndaughter, she is here to share
her expert advice on moving fromheartbreak to hope without
waiting for others to changefirst.
Welcome Estrangement CoachSally Harris, hi thank you so
much for having me.
It is such an honor to have youhere.
I met Sally at a businessconference and we were out to
(01:40):
dinner and talking and you know,what you do is so specific and
niched down and not somethingthat a lot of people are openly
looking for.
Right.
It's like one of those thingswhere there's so many women who
(02:01):
need what you do and some ofthem may or may not even be
willing to acknowledge it tothemselves.
So you just have such a unique,a unique service that you offer
and I think, before we getfurther into what you do, I
would love to hear more aboutyour story and how you got to
(02:22):
where you are and and speakingto that woman who might be
listening right now, who maybedoesn't even realize that she's
estranged, which sounds crazy,but I think there are more
people in fracturedrelationships than they realize.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Absolutely, absolutely Well, and that's a
great segue too, because a lotof people will say no-transcript
(03:09):
.
There was 10 years from I saystart to finish, that we
navigated this with my daughterand you know I always the best
way to describe it is when herlife was spiraling out of
control, so did mine, and so,because she was spiraling, so
was I.
I turned to alcohol.
(03:30):
A lot of bad habits, wasn'ttaking care of myself, was
isolating, like you mentioned, alot of moms they don't even
realize what they're doing tothemselves when they do that.
So, like I said, it might bejust be a fractured relationship
.
It could be something that will, you know, mend itself in a
very short period of time, andit might not.
(03:51):
But my biggest thing is wecan't lose hope.
So I navigated this for many,many years and I always tell my
clients I did everything wrongso I can teach you to do
everything right, amen.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Amen, yeah, what on that note name?
I'm putting you on the spot,but if you could say the top
three things that you did wrongand you see a lot of others
doing wrong before we talk aboutwhat you do right, first tell
us what three things maybe weredone wrong.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Well, number one is I tried to.
Well, I didn't try to.
I did numb my pain.
I didn't want to deal with thereality of what was happening
and so I turned to alcohol andthat was a slippery slope that I
never expected it to be.
What started out, as you know,a couple glasses of wine and do
(04:50):
a couple bottles of wine on adaily basis.
And so that was the first one,which carried over into
everything else, health wise andeverything.
The second would probably beperceived of control.
We have moms have thisperception that we have control
over the situation and that wecan fix it, and it's a perceived
(05:13):
lack of control, really, and ittakes time to allow yourself to
really understand that andlearn more about that and to
accept that you don't have thecontrol that you had when they
were little and we're you knowthe days where you were
responsible for fixing all theirproblems and putting the
(05:36):
band-aids on and doing all thethings that we all did or are
doing.
But these are grown-up problems.
You know these are.
We're talking adult childrenhere, adult kids, adult children
.
So that was another big one.
The other would be isolating.
Honestly, I isolated for a longtime family, close friends, but
(06:07):
I also would have thatexpectation that they were
supposed to help me fix it andthat they were supposed to
understand what I was goingthrough, when, I promise you,
nobody understood what I wasgoing through.
And as a human being, we tend toexpect those people closest to
us to help us navigate it, Likeif you were going through a
divorce or your parent died oranything any other struggle that
(06:29):
we have in life.
This situation is the mostheartbreaking, in my opinion,
besides the loss of a childaltogether, this is one of the
most heartbreaking situationsand journeys that we can find
ourselves on.
And so to be able to have theright people around you and I
(06:52):
quickly learned, after pushingaway some friends even, and
almost getting a divorce andisolating my other kids
sometimes because I was soconsumed with talking about just
the one problem, the onesituation that I couldn't fix.
So the isolation really hurtswhen you don't have the right
(07:15):
people around you.
And I always say the peopleclosest to you are not going to
be the ones to help you throughthis.
We expect them to be justlogically like well, of course
that's my spouse or my bestfriend and they can be a beacon
of light and support, butthey're not going to be the one
to guide you through it.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Talk a little bit about.
I mean, I think this isapplicable for a lot of things
that you're about to addressright here.
But this idea of isolation andthen turning what I hear you
saying the people that you'reclosest to I think what's also
being said there is the peoplethat you're most comfortable
with, and I think one of I mean,I have been convicted of this,
(07:59):
I have seen this in my own lifewhere it's not at all wrong to
have those people that you'rereally comfortable with be your
accountability, be the ones whoare going to hold you up when
you can't stand yourself.
I think is something that a lotof us miss is that, in order to
(08:24):
see significant change, we haveto significantly change what
we're doing.
So it's like if we keep goingto the same people for help,
then I'm not sure how we'regoing to expect a different
outcome as well.
(08:45):
So it's sort of that.
I think what you're saying likeI'm trying to sort of spit that
out in a way that I think a lotof us need to hear, that we
might not be thinking about istalk to me a little bit about
this idea of getting the rightsupport, finding the right
people, because we're not sayingdon't stay open and vulnerable
(09:06):
with the people you'recomfortable with, but where do
we settle?
And still isolate ourselves,even if we're talking to people
that we're close to.
What are we missing?
Exactly what?
Speaker 1 (09:19):
you just said, because we need to be open to
new advice, and those samepeople in your world unless
they're out there learning thesetools or learning these
strategies, most likely theyhaven't been through anything
like this before, and so Ibelieve it's just like anything
else that we go through.
You need to navigate withsomeone who's been there,
(09:44):
because we have the roadmap.
Yeah, you know, and, like Isaid, I made.
I made the mistakes, but then Iturned it around and I started
doing the right things and I sawresults.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah, yeah, and I think too it's, it's the wisdom
to know sort of how differentpeople serve you in your life
and how you serve other peopleas well.
It's like I can think right nowof certain people who, it's
like they serve this role in mylife in terms of, like this
(10:21):
person is going to help hold meaccountable.
She's going to call me outbecause she's known me for 5,000
years you know what I mean Likeshe's been there forever.
There's that, there's that um,deep connection.
It's like I'm I'm safe there,um.
But then there's other peoplewho might be able to call me out
in different ways because thereisn't years and years of
(10:42):
history and they can see me as Iam today without any
assumptions of who I'm supposedto be, where I came from, who I
was, and they can just point outthings that maybe that other
person who's known me foreverwould miss, because they have
known me for so long and theyknow who I was and who I should
be, type of a thing.
So I think isolation whatneither Sally or I are saying to
(11:08):
be clear, because I think a lotof us get this wrong.
It doesn't mean you're justsitting in your room or in your
house and not talking to people.
Exactly, exactly.
You might be posting every dayon Facebook about your struggles
and still be completelyisolated.
You might be talking to friendsat church every Sunday and
(11:28):
still be isolating yourselfbecause you're not actually
stepping out of your comfortzone to seek vulnerable,
exposing growth.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Exactly, and that's hard, and nothing changes if
nothing changes, right?
Yes, as you know.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yes, including the people that we're talking to I.
Um, you also mentioned somethingthat I just want to touch on
here.
You know many of us here in theearly morning habit community
are and I'm sure many womenlistening are raising younger or
school aged children, and thatcould be anywhere from third
grade up through college maybe.
(12:06):
I'm curious based on yourexperience working with so many
women, your own personalexperience, what insights would
you share to help us fosterthese relationships and possibly
prevent estrangement?
Right the like hindsight visionis 2020.
(12:28):
Are there any patterns that youhave uncovered for yourself and
also for a lot of these othermoms that you work with, that we
should be mindful of andproactive about today?
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Yes, I love that you asked that because I'm so
passionate about that.
Eventually, this will becomepart of my business because I
want to be proactive.
Right now, I had to meet myselfwhere I was at and now I meet
other women where they're at.
But, you're right, how do weprevent it?
Well, it's not 100% preventablebecause your children are their
(13:00):
own person with free will ownperson with free will right and
up to a certain age.
We are the most powerfulinfluence over our kids.
We're everything to them and asa mom, you can't imagine not
being that person anymore.
But we have to realize that asthey grow they're in school they
have other influences as theygrow even more.
(13:23):
You've got social media, you'vegot teachers.
Kids, like all the other peoplein their world, start to
influence them.
Some you will know about andsome you won't.
As much as we try to keep thatcohesive, like mom knows
everything, like trying tocontrol the atmosphere here,
just trying to protect them andkeep them safe, that's our job.
(13:44):
But I think I know one thingthat I did wrong is two things.
Number one for those of yourmoms that maybe come from a
divorce or just a brokenmarriage, broken family in
general, I tried to make up forthat.
(14:04):
I tried to be mom and dad,because I was a single mom for
six years, and this is when theywere younger.
But it wasn't until many yearslater I realized that I could
not fill that space of dad and Icertainly couldn't be Jesus,
right, amen.
So.
(14:25):
But we try to do everything.
It's like it's okay that he'snot around, it's okay he doesn't
do visitation, because I can beboth parents, I love them
enough for both of us and it'sjust not reality.
There's still a hole in theirheart from a fractured parental
relationship.
I see this all the time nowwith the grown kids.
(14:47):
So there's that piece.
But also I feel like therebecomes an age probably more
around junior, high-ish, forsure, high school where we have
to start letting go a little bitand stop keeping the range so
tight where we're trying tocontrol everything that they do
(15:09):
and still keeping all thoseparameters around everything.
Because I know now that if mykids were going to fall, I
wanted them to do it under myroof.
If they were going to makemistakes, I wanted it to be
while they were still at home.
Now, again, controlling, youknow who they're hanging out
with, who their friends are.
You can only do that to acertain degree.
(15:31):
I thought I had that all takencare of and I was so wrong.
You know, hidden things stayhidden, right, even when you
think you've got everythingunder control.
You just we don't.
And so, just keeping an eye onthose reins and making sure that
you know, I believe my daughterwas 16 when I learned about
(15:53):
love and logic.
I believe my daughter was 16when I learned about love and
logic.
You ever heard of that?
No, no, I can't remember theauthor, but there's a book,
there's DVDs, there's all thethings Amazing.
It's about how to be aconsultant parent, not a
helicopter mom, not a drillsergeant, which I think I was
(16:16):
those two, teaching them how tothink for themselves and don't
tell them what to do all thetime.
Let them make some mistakes sothey can learn from it, because
I don't know about you, butthat's where I've learned.
All of the growth that I've hadin my life came from some
really crappy mistakes.
But that's how we grow and ourkids are no different.
And when they realize like, ohyeah, I remember, you know what.
(16:38):
But mom, let me take that, youknow, not a dangerous path, but
my mom.
But, mom, let me do this orthat.
You know and I learned from it,and so it's just navigating
that that consultant likehelping them think for
themselves, make decisions, andfor every decision there's a
consequence and we all know that.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yeah, yeah, you know it's interesting.
You talked about I can't be.
You talked about from aperspective of a fractured
marriage, possibly in raisingand helping prevent estrangement
from a child.
You mentioned this idea of Iwish I had recognized I can't be
dad and I can't be Jesus as mom, and you know I'm going to
(17:22):
suggest that we do this even ifwe're not in a divorced
situation.
But there's a lot of us thatstill and it comes down to
control are very possibly guiltyof trying to fill in the gaps
that we think might exist in ourspouse, or fill in the gaps
(17:46):
where we think might exist intheir spiritual walk, and very
much run the risk of playing theroles that we're not supposed
to play.
And, like you said, when notallowing for just ultimately,
(18:06):
consequences might even be toostrong of a word for some of it,
but just simply that idea ofbeing still and ultimately
trusting that, like you justsaid, our children have been
given the gift of free will andespecially as they get older,
you know what does it look liketo?
Yeah, I like the consultantconcept, especially as they get
(18:30):
older.
You know, in all things, inlike life choices, but also in
spiritual ones, where it's likewe have to make sure they don't
feel like they are doing thethings they're supposed to do,
simply because that's what willmake us happy, versus letting
them struggle, even if it causesus pain, which leads to the
(18:52):
second thing you said.
Hidden things stay hidden and Ithink a lot of times is because
we want to avoid hurting people.
Like at its heart is a goodintention.
However, are we, as moms,allowing for our kids to hurt
themselves and ultimately hurtus?
Because that's when hiddenthings really stay hidden, right
, right, absolutely.
Because that's when hiddenthings really stay hidden, right
(19:14):
, right, absolutely.
One of the other things thatyou talk about is this idea that
reconciliation isn't the goal.
Personal transformation issuggest that this concept is
true of us, whether we have anestranged relationship with a
family member or whether we'retrying to create healthy
(19:39):
relationships.
Now, this whole concept isstill crucial because I think it
still speaks to this letting gopiece and controlling the
things we can and letting go ofthe things that we can't.
So talk to me a little bitabout no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Well, the biggest thing that I see with the moms
that I serve and this issomething I learned myself and
it sounds really basic, but itcan solve so many relationship
issues is communication,communication.
(20:38):
So, as mom, we go backwardslike we were saying how we're in
control of the situations.
We sometimes even speak forthem.
We're not being the consultantparent, we're being the
helicopter, we're doing allthese things.
But then there they sit with,not knowing who they are right,
expecting you to fix everything.
But then all of a sudden theybecome an adult and we find
(21:00):
ourselves with issues withcommunication with them.
So at the end of the day, itreally boils down to the
personal transformation happenswhen the mom has to look in the
mirror and say what can I change?
Because a relationship is twopeople.
Even when it's your child, it'sstill a relationship.
It takes two people.
We count ourselves as one withour kids so much because they're
(21:28):
hooked to our hip for so manyyears, right, and then here they
are, navigating their own world, sometimes successfully,
sometimes not.
There's different reasons whythese, why these estrangements
happen, but sometimes they wantto try to realize, they want to
get out and release themselvesfrom the family so they know
(21:48):
what they're made of becausethey haven't been given that
opportunity and so to be able to, because they haven't been
given that opportunity, and soto be able to navigate the
relationship with them on thatmore of that consultant level,
as a younger child, but even asan adult.
So making sure we're not givingunsolicited advice, right, this
(22:11):
becomes an adultultrelationship, not a parent-child
.
Yeah, you know, these are theover 18 I'm speaking of, and so
navigating that can be reallyhard and it takes adjustment.
But I just shared last night inmy group I had a one-on-one
(22:31):
client and she shared with me.
We had just finished up ourtime together and that's exactly
the main thing we worked onwith her was to not push her son
before he was ready tocommunicate and to respect the
space and while she was waiting.
She doesn't just sit and waitand isolate and do the things
(22:52):
that we were talking about.
This is where she stands up,looks in the mirror, is like,
okay, what can I work on aboutme?
And so she did all these things.
She did that and now her sonfast forward these several
months together.
She was able to hear from himin a text and it said thank you
for giving me the space that Ineeded to allow myself to work
(23:14):
through X, y, z.
It has helped tremendously.
So she just has that bond backwith her son that she didn't
have a few months ago.
Why?
Because she wasn't pushing, shewas letting him navigate
whatever it was that he neededto navigate.
Even though it hurt and you feelrejected from your son or your
(23:34):
daughter and it's difficult, youwant to rush in there and fix
it.
And if it's not happening fastenough, that's typically what I
see is they're rushing in,they're sending letters, they're
calling, they're textingnonstop.
And I'll be honest,unfortunately and I'm not
against therapy, but I have seenthere's good therapists, bad
(23:56):
therapists, just like anythingelse in the world, right.
But in the last several years Ihave seen so many people come
to me who's either they were intherapy or their child was in
therapy, and they receive a noteor a letter from their child
which is completely scripted youcan tell just by reading it.
(24:18):
It's got all the buzzwords andtelling mom that I need a pause,
I need a break.
I'm putting boundaries aroundyou Because nowadays this is
what's happening.
People are going to get help andinstead of trying to reconcile
the family, they just if someonedoesn't agree with you, your
belief system, how you want tolive your life, just cut them
(24:41):
out.
It doesn't matter that it'sfamily, and so even those
situations which are so dire, sohard, you know, I've seen a lot
of adult children renounce ordenounce their faith, how they
were raised.
They literally take classes todo it and it's devastating for
(25:06):
the moms.
But even some of those I've seencome around.
But it takes time, takespatience, and when the mom can
sit there and realize, okay, Ineed to work on this, I need to
grow, I need personal growthmyself, I need to focus on my
own hobbies, the things that Ilove to do.
I need to focus on my health,because if I don't get my
thoughts under control, myphysical health is going to go
(25:27):
down the tubes, which I see itall the time and it happened to
me and it happened to me.
And so just navigating all ofthose things are just so
important and they seemsimplistic, but that person in
your family or best friendprobably is not giving you that
kind of guidance and walkingthrough step-by-step of when to
pause, cause a lot of people, asa mom, we just think well, just
(25:51):
keep calling him, just text him, you know, and every family is
a little bit different, so thiscertainly is not a cookie cutter
approach for people.
You know a lot, of, a lot ofvariables for sure, as you're
talking, I'm hearing a couplethings.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
One you mentioned communication, um, and I mean I
have been trying to work on thiseven now with my kids being 12,
10, and 7, but trying to getbetter at leading with questions
, not statements, because peoplewon't be hearing this and being
(26:29):
like, okay, how, like, what doI do?
What does communication changelook like?
And I won't speak for Sally,but for myself.
You know this idea of with thatconsultant.
It's like helping them thinkindependently while also making
them feel seen and cared forsometimes just requires the art
(26:50):
of asking better questions, andwith that then comes a
willingness to hear the answerand a willingness to possibly
just be silent and not thengiven this is where it's hard
for me no shocker to anyoneprobably listening to be silent
then when they respond and I'mlike wait, but I have all these
(27:14):
words of wisdom for you, andsometimes it's just allowing
yourself to let them processwithout feeling the need to
speak into it, and maybe it'sjust ending it with well, let's
pray about that together, right,it's leaving it open-ended and
also then making it a verypersonal sense of let's bring
this to the Lord.
You're not providing an answer,let's ask the Lord to guide it,
(27:36):
and I'm trying to maybe hit twothings with this.
For moms, listening and I thinkthis is true for your older
children too is in general, Ithink we need to get better
about asking questions.
We need to get better aboutallowing the conversation to be
open-ended, meaning we're notclosing it with our thoughts and
what we think they should do.
And third, we should be allowingthem to also feel the very real
(28:02):
need to be bringing it beforethe Lord and that they see us
leading in that way where we'renot leading the answer.
We are saying Lord, can youspeak into this?
Give us wisdom, yeah, to makeit feel like there's more of
that, that partnership, andultimately making the Lord a
(28:26):
part of it, in a way where weand our children have to hear
from him rather than just ourown wisdom as opposed to well,
this is what you do because theBible said it, and we never even
bring the Lord into theconversation.
It's like, well, the Bible saidit, you know, well, I pray
about it, or we pray to aspecific end rather than just
give us wisdom.
So I don't know.
(28:46):
As I'm listening, I'm thinkingeven now, at this age, you know
the challenge to be doing that,but maybe even for the adults,
the adult children, maybesometimes it needs to be that
way too.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, I think one of the biggest things and this
could apply with your kids atwhatever age you feel
appropriate but sometimes thebest way for the communication
with your child is when theystart to tell you something,
especially if you're a mom whowants to fix it and they're
traditionally used to you comingin and rescuing.
(29:19):
What if, rather, we said, okay,it sounds like you've got
something going on.
Do you want me to just listenor do you want my advice?
Because it's really just, theyjust want to be heard.
I find that, especially withand I'm sure it's no different
with our little ones, right, Icertainly didn't have all those
(29:41):
skills when my kids were little.
I certainly didn't have allthose skills when my kids were
little.
So it's great stuff.
It's great stuff because, um,especially if you start young,
like you said, the preventionpiece, they're going to be
accustomed to that.
This is just how we handledissues.
This is how we handle problems,like you prayed about it.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
You ask God for wisdom.
Mom doesn't have all theanswers.
Amen, amen to that.
This mom certainly doesn't, atleast.
Well, and again, I would saythat this still applies to the
mom with adult children who arestrained because you need to
start like, if this is, ifyou're listening and you're like
, ok, but I don't have the youngkids, I'm already in this boat
you still need to be practicingthis, right, it's a rewiring.
(30:24):
So, even if that is you and it'syour estranged child, how about
start practicing this in yourfriendship, start practicing
this in your marriage.
When someone comes to you witha problem or comes to you with
you know there is no wrong placeto start here.
It's like these patterns existbeyond just our parenting and
(30:45):
are going to help us in allrelationships.
So, you know, even if you'relistening and that is you and
you have the older child, thethought would be start being
really attentive to your otherrelationships.
Do you actually jump in withall your thoughts and opinions
in your other relationships aswell?
Maybe there just needs to bemore silence and more wisdom and
(31:06):
more maybe even humility, tojust be like, oh, tell me more,
with with no, no sharing ofopinion.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
And the active listening.
Active listening I have a mom,I have a mom that that I coached
that.
She literally her daughter.
She practiced that with herdaughter and she actually took
notes while her daughter wastalking.
And her daughter didn't mind,she was just like I just want to
make sure that I'm hearing youcorrectly.
And her daughter actuallyrespected that.
And after the conversation shesaid you know what, mom, that is
(31:37):
the best conversation we haveever had.
Why?
Because the daughter felt heardand mom wasn't interjecting.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yes, yes, okay, I'm going to take it one step
further.
Ladies those of you listeningsocial media this is another one
that sometimes, if we want torewire, then I would also say
reevaluate how you respond onsocial media, because this is
also probably a reflection ofyour personal relationships.
If you are the one that feelslike you read something, you
(32:05):
disagree with it, you have torespond.
This is another great place topractice silence.
Let it air.
You do not need to respond onsocial media either.
Give it to the Lord, youresponding in a heated argument
on social media is not going tochange anything and it might
just create even moreinflammation, and you're not
rewiring patterns that clearlyexist in multiple areas.
(32:28):
So that's another thought thatcomes to mind.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
I love that I have a YouTube channel.
Need I say more?
Listen people need to take youradvice to heart.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yes, and she her YouTube.
What is your YouTube channelname?
By the way, she has a fantasticYouTube channel.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
It's under my name, sally Harris, sally.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Harris, yes, you definitely, definitely want to
check out Sally's YouTubechannel.
Um, the last thing that I wouldask is what are practical
action steps?
So let's get back to the momwho, like the woman that you
serve so well, who has thisestrangement with, with a child,
um, what one, two, three orjust like whatever, whatever
(33:14):
comes to mind.
What are practical things thatshe can do tomorrow?
Like, she listens to thisepisode, she watches it wherever
she's getting it.
What are the next best steps?
So, obviously you really wantto start to see change.
I highly recommend hiring Sally.
I'll say that because it shouldstill be said.
This is what she does for aliving.
(33:35):
But if you just need a nextstep for yourself, what would
you say she should do?
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Well, I would say first of all, if you don't mind
me giving an example of as faras a support system.
Number one for every single momis who's your support system?
Now, mind you, I fully believethey need a community, whether
it's mine or someone else's.
They need support from someonewho's been there with what
they're going through, but intheir real everyday life.
(34:07):
they need to find at least twopeople, just two.
Some may only find one, andthat's okay, but they need to
find at least two people who canbe their support system, who
are going to be empathetic.
They may not completelyunderstand, but there's no
judgment, there's no criticism.
I can call you 24-7 if I neededyou.
(34:27):
That may be a spouse, it may bea sister, it may be a friend,
because what happens is I usethe analogy of if you're on a
beautiful, large front porch andyou're sitting there and you
ask yourself these are thepeople, these are my people on
the front porch, these are thepeople that I can trust, that
(34:54):
what I tell them, it isn't goinganywhere.
Whether they can completelyidentify with what I'm going
through or not, they're justamazing humans in my life and I
would be lost without them.
Those are the people that areon your front porch.
Everyone else is out in yourfront yard your neighbors, your
co-workers, some of your family,right, whoever those people are
the acquaintances at church.
(35:14):
Because the people that are youneed to talk to about this need
to be on your front porch.
Why?
Because otherwise you're goingto go to church.
You're going to go to thegrocery store.
You're going to go wherever andpeople are going to.
To go to the grocery store.
You're going to go wherever andpeople are going to go.
How's Susie doing?
Has she come back yet?
Have you heard from her?
And you are going to.
You are going to relive thatstress over and over and over
again.
You need to have a blanketstatement for those folks,
(35:37):
because a they might really care, right, but you don't need to
explain this to anyone.
You keep this for your peoplethat are safe, because, let's
face it, there are a lot ofpeople that just want to gossip,
and so you need to removeyourself from those, from the
(35:58):
people in your front yard.
You, you, they're your friends,you like them, but they don't
have to be the people thatyou're going to go to for this.
They're your friends, you likethem, but they don't have to be
the people that you're going togo to for this.
So that community, the supportsystem, is crucial, because if
you don't identify who thosepeople are, you're doing what I
did, which was let's just telleverybody yeah, yeah, Right.
And it consumed every singlerelationship that I had, because
(36:22):
I had a one track mind and thatwas the only topic of
discussion that I really caredto have with anyone.
So it was overwhelming foreveryone involved and so I don't
recommend that.
But the other piece, second, is100% self-care.
Figure out what that is.
If you're not someone whoexercises, obviously it'd be in
your community figuring all ofthat is.
(36:42):
If you're not someone whoexercises, obviously it'd be in
your community figuring all ofthat out.
But even if you're just walking, you need to get outside, you
need to be in nature, you needto be able to have that.
Figuring out.
What is it that your body needsfor self-care?
For me, I learned many yearsago that it's massage.
I used to think, oh, that'sjust a frivolous expense or
(37:06):
whatever.
I'm like, oh no, this issomething I do every other week
and if I don't, I can feel it.
That is just a self-care piecethat I need.
For someone else it might begetting their nails done or
whatever it is Figuring out.
What are those pieces that youcan do that are not going to
take necessarily a lot of moneyor a lot of time, but you have
(37:28):
to start implementing that intoyour day because we have to.
Until we start doing that, howdo we control our thoughts If
we're not taking care ofourselves?
Those ruminating thoughts thatthey're having about their son
or daughter and the wholesituation is it overtakes them.
I would say 90% of the momsthat come to me for the very
first time already have healthissues.
(37:50):
They already have anxiety.
They already have depression oractual health, major health
issues as well.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, it's hard to downregulate your mind until we
downregulate our body.
I mean Jesus literally showedus this.
He met physical needs beforedownregulate our body.
I mean Jesus literally showedus this he met physical needs
before he even spoke to hearts.
I mean, you know, if the Lordof the universe is exhibiting
that for us, then we shouldprobably be doing the same for
ourselves, you know as beingable to meet our physical,
getting our bodies into a placewhere we can even process the
(38:22):
hard realities that exist in ahealthy, healthy manner.
And this is what's so beautifulabout, you know, I would say,
the way that God all causes toserve differently.
Because, ladies that's forthose of you that have not met
me and you're hearing me throughSally, because she shared, you
know, that's what we do here atearly morning habit.
We're literally a holisticself-care program.
You know, empowering busy,overwhelmed moms specifically to
(38:44):
sleep better, rise a littleearlier and start every day with
God's word in a workout.
It's literally that concept ofrevitalizing body and soul every
day so that you have theability to invest hard in
someone like Sally, with someonelike Sally to do the really
difficult work.
It just better positions you tohit the areas of hurt in our
(39:08):
hearts.
Where can people find you?
Where can they follow you andlearn more about you?
And for those who you are justthe right fit, which I know is
somebody listening and somebodywatching, where can they sign up
for your coaching?
Speaker 1 (39:25):
So, like I mentioned, I do have the YouTube channel.
It's under my name, sallyHarris.
Also, my website issally-harriscom and I do have a
discovery call, so if you'reinterested in coaching, you can
sign up for one of those calls.
Those buttons are all over mywebsite so you can navigate
there and learn more about thecoaching options and my podcast
(39:46):
on there.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Awesome.
We'll make sure all of thoselinks, of course, are included
in the show notes.
And let me pray us out and alsopray over Sally as well.
Lord, I thank you so much forthe work that Sally is doing and
, man, I just praise you for herstory, I praise you for her
daughter, I praise you for theway that you take what seems so
(40:11):
messy in our lives, the ashesthat we see, and you create such
unbelievable beauty.
And I pray for the mom, thedaughter, the son, the father,
the friend, whoever might belistening right now, who's
experiencing estrangement fromsomeone that they love.
We feel the tension becausethis is not how it was meant to
(40:32):
be, it's not how you designedrelationship, and so we feel
that brokenness and it doesweigh on us as it should and as
it will.
And I pray that you would givelight that Sally's words, that
you would speak through them,that there'd be a beacon of hope
, and that whoever's listeningright now, who needs it, would
just hang on to that, just grasponto it, cling to it, even if
(40:57):
it's just really small to holdon.
And, lord, I ask that you wouldhelp them to take a step
forward, whatever it looks likefor them, whether it's writing a
letter, whether it is reachingout to somebody, whether it is
maybe actually letting go alittle bit and stepping away and
being silent.
Maybe it's finding somebody whohas been there, somebody like
(41:21):
Sally, who can speak to themfrom a place of personal and
professional experience.
But, lord, I just prayultimately that whatever that
relationship is for the personlistening and watching that you
would provide healing.
Lord, we ask it, in the name ofJesus, that your presence would
be felt in that relationshipand that there would be a
(41:41):
turning to you, becausesometimes there is no more
hopeless feeling than brokenrelationship.
And I just ask that you wouldmake yourself known in those
moments and that you would workthrough your people.
Lord, thank you for yourpromise of faithfulness.
No matter how dark it seems,Lord, let the light break
through.
(42:01):
In the name of Jesus, we prayAmen, amen, thank you.
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