Ep 058 - ACE Coaches Roundtable: Daddy issues and Busch Light Math - Roots Of Success

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
And so as an owner, he had to remindhis kids about the fact that, hey,

(00:05):
when we're at work, we're not family.
This is a professional relationship.
So his son was coming into work, uh,a new member of the finance team.
And, uh, Jeffrey walked into his officeand said, here, I ain't a daddy boy.
Welcome to The Roots of Success, thePremier Landscapers podcast that brings

(00:26):
you the latest tips and strategiesfor successful landscape business.
I'm Jim Calli, one of the principlesand coaches of McFarland Stanford.
Jason New and I started McFarlandStanford to coach landscape businesses
after years in the industry ourselves,now more than 10 years since we began,
McFarland has a deep bench of coaches and.
Subject matter experts whowork with our clients on very
specific issues of business.
Whether you're struggling with people,profits, or just day-to-day challenges,

(00:49):
our coaches and guests have thereal world experience and practical
advice to help you build a thrivingand profitable landscape business.
Welcome to The Roots of Success,the Premier Landscapers podcast.
We are working right now toleverage, uh, new formats.
We're leveraging the expertisewe have with a team, with hosts

(01:10):
that are gonna be joining us.
And a member Roundtable today.
Jason New here with McFarland Stanford.
Uh, glad to join you here for theRoots of Success in our podcast today.
Uh, my background, uh,joined the company by, for.
Meeting Jim and us working together andmany years ago in a landscape company.
My background is working through acorporate world of Brickman Group that

(01:31):
then led into a small company that wasout of Dallas and we grew a company
there, uh, from a very small, you know,team to a very large team over a seven
year period where really I learned a ton.
I learned a lot of practical applicationthings that helped me grow and help.
Our clients today in the way of growingmaintenance companies, recurring services,
and really getting their teams built forsuccess as they're growing through things.

(01:54):
And so as we're introducing ourselves,I wanna make sure you understand
we have a deep bench of coaches andexpertise that I wanna make sure
you get to know and introduce today.
And so next to me, I haveBarrett Chow Barrett.
Can you kick us offwith some introductions?
Of course.
Barrett Chow, executive coachand director of Recruiting.
I have a, my career has been in humanresources and I actually used to

(02:16):
be a client of McFarland Stanford.
Um, my career has spanned multipleindustries from professional
sports to landscaping, to privatetravel as well as software.
So, um, recruiting andpeople have been my passion.
So, um, I'm excited to help build teamsand solve people problems for our clients.

(02:38):
All right.
Uh, Chris Ick.
Uh, I focus on sales and operationalleadership, and so, uh, not too dissimilar
from most people in landscaping.
Uh, I grew up in landscapingand started mowing at 12.
Uh, had my own Leon business that, uh,I ran all the way up until I went to
college, uh, where I went to go study,uh, horticulture and landscape design.

(02:58):
Um, from there, moved into theindustry professionally and worked
for a couple large outfits, a couplelarge, uh, commercial outfits.
Uh, where I got to speak, cutmy teeth on the operational side
first before I moved into sales.
And then once I moved into sales, hadan opportunity to, um, really start
moving into what sales looks like aswe evolved, what a company was and how

(03:19):
we took it from four to 32 million.
Uh, and got to be an intricatepart of, of what and how we did
that and what that looked like.
And, uh, have learned a lot of stuffthat I now get to teach, uh, other
professionals what and how we do things.
Uh, my name is Kevin Km.It's nice to meet you all.
Um, I come from a corporatebackground after 13 years with
Dow Chemical, uh, mainly in theprofessional pest management space.

(03:41):
Uh, went and worked for a bit in someof the technology sector and then
arrived most recently at InnovativePest Control, where I helped their
continued growth and in a successful exit.
Uh, and this May.
And so I'd bring a corporate toentrepreneurial background with
a focus in sales, uh, marketingand operational excellence.
And I'm Vince Tortilla, vicePresident of the Grow Group.
Happy to be partnered with Marty Gruer.

(04:02):
It's actually my 15th yearof working with Marty.
So I started there as a general intern,learning more about landscaping, working
with the owners and leaders of landscapingcompanies, fortunate enough to be at a
landscaping company, watching them grow,seeing what a morning rollout looks like.
And then I decided to go back tolaw school later in my career.
So again, a general leadershipcoach, but I do like to dive into
the legal compliance aspects ofwhat companies are going through.

(04:23):
Aside from the general leadershipthat, again, I've picked up with
15 years of working with Martyand Grander Landscaping Company.
Hi, my name is Jim Calli.
I've been to the industrynow for almost 20 years.
Uh, started as a client, learnedmore about the industry from the
aspect of, you know, how could Iwork locally and not travel so much.
Um.
I joined a landscapingfirm, um, just like Jason.
Uh, together we helped grow a team withChris, um, over a period of seven years.

(04:48):
Um, and at the end of the day, we, wewanted to be a part, a bigger part of
the industry, whether it was involved inassociations and now into the coaching
side of the world where we helped takeall of our tips and tricks and strategies
that we've learned over the years.
Um, listen really well andhelp formulate a strategy for
all of our clients every day.
Love what I do.
I
love that.
Well, let's jump into this.

(05:08):
We're gonna do some quick firequestions around some things that we
are experiencing with our clients,our peer groups, and things that
we're working on and some thingsthat are coming up lately, right?
So new trends and what we're, oneof my first questions we're jumping
into, and we're just gonna get somefeedback from each of you, is our
client's backlogs are shrinking.
And so what are we, what are wesharing, or what are we learning as

(05:31):
far as best practices on what we'redoing to move that forward and drive
the business forward right now?
Who wants to kick us off?
I'll
kick it off.
I, I've had quite a few conversationsthis week about that, um, you know,
people don't know what they don't know.
And whether it's internally in your teamor whether it's with your clientele,
um, your clientele being your partners,tell them you've got time available.

(05:51):
You know, the funny thing that I'mseeing actually with our, uh, a number
of our clients at the present momenthappens to be that they've got a
backlog starting September the 15th.
They've got this, actuallythis six week period right now.
Uh, and, and how are they gonna fill it?
I said, tell 'em.
Let's, let's, let's put an email outthere and tell people, and that may
trigger some things in their own headsthat, you know, you may count on your
account manager or others to make sureyou're getting your messaging out.

(06:12):
But that's certainly one important part.
But the second piece of that would be justput it in a marketing email and say, Hey,
we've got openings for the next six weeks.
What can we do for you?
How do we get your house ready for fall?
We've got openings,and as a client we want
you to know first.
That's a great answer.
I love that because it gives a senseof urgency around also the timeline
of when you're open to do it.
Bingo.
The sense of urgency is

(06:32):
key.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And I was, uh, I had an opportunityto, to teach at a conference this past
week where, uh, this actually came up.
Uh, they were talking about thestruggle that we're having now with
sales and how that looks differentthan what we've had in the past.
And, and it's been interesting becausewe were, when we were talking, uh,
it was about the fact that we'rekind of back to that pre 2019, pre

(06:54):
2020 sales phase where, uh, thework doesn't just walk in the door.
Um, and we've gotta get back tomore of that proactive hunting,
proactive business development.
Uh, a little bit more of theold school mentality of what and
how we go hunt down prospects.
Uh, which I think over the last fouror five years people have gotten very
content and very complacent as towhat and how we approach sales because

(07:14):
sales were just falling at our feet.
Mm-hmm.
And that was very easy to, uh, to take on.
Um, so when we look at how wesolve that, you know, a lot of the
conversations I think we're havingnow are centered around the fact
of how do we develop relationships?
How do we go deeper with relationships?
Um, how do we look at the low hangingfruit that's sitting in front of us?
You know, the irrigation repairs, uh,the seasonal enhancements, the high

(07:36):
margin opportunities, uh, that arereally just, they're there every day
and, and the landscape gives it to us.
We just have to go out there andbe effective and efficient about
what and how we approach it andhow we, how we go attack it.
Methodically work through thosesystems, but the work is there,
you know, it, it hasn't gone away.
Uh, it's still there, it'svery much still in process.
It's still being developed.

(07:57):
Uh, there's a lot of money moving around.
Um, but you've gotta go hunt itdown and you've gotta go find
creative ways to go solve that.
And that's, that's where I think a lotof the conversations are going now.
Yeah.
And I wanna, I wanna piggyback directlyoff of Chris because I think that
Chris is exactly right in terms ofthe coaching and the messaging that
we want our clients to hear is thatwe are fortunate to be working with
companies that have been growing.

(08:17):
And so they've been putting workinto the ground and as Chris
said, landscapes mature over time.
So the 45,000, 60,000 Jo dollarsjob you put in a year ago,
it's gonna look different now.
So can we set up some property walks?
Can we draw a line in the sand and go,Hey, anybody that spent money with us
last year over X amount of dollars?
Mm-hmm.
We need to go to some propertywalks with them because their
properties are gonna look different.

(08:38):
Maybe we've been, maybe we'vebeen maintaining them, maybe we
haven't been maintaining them,but people are spending money.
So let's go on some property walks.
Let's be proactive and let's not justassume things are gonna come in the door.
Let's get out and walk properties.
Exactly what Chris said.
I think that we have to go back to someof the things that got us to growing
our business, which was some like goodold fashioned hustle, some good old
fashioned property walks, showing yourexpertise and showing that you care

(09:00):
about the maturity of their landscape.
This is not a transaction for us.
This is a relationship.
So let's go walk properties.
Let's suggest things that we can do andlet's make sure that we are maintaining
that relationship with our clients.
Thank you.
Yeah.
I've seen a lot of success with my clientswho have more of a new sales backlog,
drought and actually going in and tappinginto previous and existing clients.

(09:22):
Right.
Yeah.
Um, I think we get enamoredwith feel filling that backlog
with new, new, new, new sales.
And we sometimes, to Vince andChris's point, we forget that.
We have relationships builtwith existing clients.
We've done good work, and that usuallyleads to more work and tapping into,
okay, your landscape's grown in threeyears, how do we make this better?

(09:45):
And people's lives change.
Kids go to college.
You don't need certain thingsin your backyard anymore.
So we can upgrade it and, andmake it more functional for what
stage of life you're in now.
I,
I'm gonna challenge Chris real quickon some of the comments that he made.
Um, meaning that, you know, thelonger term aspects of relationships,
100% spot on where you're at, right?

(10:06):
The more, now it's theimmediate need, okay?
Mm-hmm.
So what do you do today, right?
So answer that, and then the,the flip side of that is, is
after what do you do today?
What do you plan for next?
And how do you get people to make thismore of a system of a relationship
as opposed to one that just happensgutterly when you don't have any work.
Yeah, I know.
It's, uh, it's a reallygood way, way of putting it.
So I'll use the example of like amaintenance business developer, like

(10:29):
a maintenance business developer.
Works with property manager.
A property manager amanages 10 properties.
Well, it turns out we only managetwo of those 10 properties, right?
So when we talk about how do we furtherdevelop a relationship, well, rather than
us going out and creating all these newconversations with cold leads of people
who've never seen our services, never seenour trucks, know nothing about what we do.

(10:51):
Uh, I always like to say, well, whatcan we do to go deeper with property
manager a and how do we go from twoproperties to four to six properties?
And then, oh, by the way, propertymanager a actually works at a firm
that has 10 other property managers.
What other ties do they have?
'cause if you take 10 other propertymanagers times 10 properties, immediately

(11:12):
we've got a pipeline of of opportunitythat's like right there at our grass of
somebody that's already seen our work,already knows what we're capable of.
Already knows the qualityand the performance, right?
We already have put our foot in the door.
Um, we just want to go a little bit deeperand take that next step to start enhancing
what those opportunities look like
or take that relationship that youhave with that property manager.

(11:33):
And even though you're not taking PA.
Care of that fifth, sixth,and seventh property.
Maybe that fifth, sixth, and seventhproperty needs an enhancement tomorrow.
And that's our firststep into the property.
Mm-hmm.
As you manage those relationships,it doesn't have to be the long term
sale, it doesn't have to be the longterm contract you're looking for,
it's more about showing the work.
Yeah.
And having an opportunity to do, to filla need, immediate need that they have
that didn't know how they we're gonna
solve.
Yeah.
And then I always like to say,you know, to me, once I bid the

(11:56):
work, I've already put in theeffort to go measure the property.
Um, even if I lost it, those are stillexisting properties that are out there.
Right.
Like, and so there's no reasonwhy you shouldn't be going back
to these on a regular basis.
'cause they may not gowith you in year one.
They may go with you inyear three or five or six.
Right.
You know, but you've alreadydone the legwork, you've got the
measurements, you've got everything.
You know, these should stay on your listuntil, you know, you feel like, hey,

(12:19):
it's just not the right client for us.
Relentless.
You know?
Yeah.
So it's just that persistencethat you have to go after.
Right.
I
think we've all focused a lot on,on taking your current book of
business and focusing on that.
And it can be a gut knee jerk reaction togo spend lots of money on marketing, um,
and, and try to pull in more leads and,and, and fill that pipeline that way.
But the reality is, this goes back tobasic blocking and tackling of marketing.

(12:41):
You already have leadsthat you didn't close.
Um, and they may have not gone with you.
They might have not done the work at all.
And there's an opportunity to go backto those clients and talk to them.
And if they did go with somebodyelse, then go back clean up because
you know, to your point, thatproperty's not gonna look the same.
And maybe you can come in and politelypoint out that you, uh, would've done
a better job, but you can correct theirmistakes now, um, and, and be able

(13:05):
to pull in some, some maintenance.
And Jim, you mentioned that'sfilling the need now, right?
How do you, how do you go past that?
And I'm amazed that you didnot mention this, but you
should have a sales calendar.
Ding, ding, ding, ding.
That's what I was looking for, to be
able to, to talk about that in, and I knowthat that's another talk that we talked
about earlier this week about taking.

(13:25):
Uh, now and, and planning ahead, uh, forthe fall, for the winter, for spring.
Uh, and, you know, the worldkeeps spinning, uh, and we're
gonna need to keep using whateverstrategy now for fall, next fall.
So build that calendar out and,and focus on that so that your team
knows, you know, what game play into go put into place when needed.

(13:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well said.
And I, and I'd say from all of thesethings that you're speaking to, it's,
it's really getting your team tounderstand that, helping them train
them, the sales activities that reallydrive progress and success in the
things that you're talking about.
So it's, these are great points.
I appreciate you guys bringing that up.
Um, alright.
Question two, ready to run into it.
Does your team know how you make money?

(14:08):
Do we know how to make money as a company?
How do, how do, how do they learn that?
How are people sharingthat and do they know it?
You mean We don't all workfor the Salvation Army.
We're for profit.
Money.
Money.
Money's
important.
First step is asking 'em if they,if they know how we make money.
Right.
You might be surprised, there will bepeople on your teams that know exactly

(14:28):
how to make money, but in our experience,that has not been normally the case.
Right?
So first step is, hey, ask them,do you know how we make money?
If not, there's certainly alot of different ways you can
go about doing that, right?
One of the examples that we'veused, and certainly we used Barrett
with your team years ago was, is.
How many pennies out of a dollardo we make from a profitability
standpoint when we're quoting jobs?

(14:49):
Um, and if, if you sell it fora dollar, at the end of the day,
if a, if a landscape company, andgoing back to typical landscape
companies in that 4% margin range,we make four pennies on a dollar.
And then using that example of fourpennies being on presentations that
you make or even hang the four pennieson the wall, people get a little upset
that we do a lot, a lot of work to earnfour pennies that that will ring true.

(15:11):
But let's teach 'em how to get from fourto six and how do we get from six to
eight, and how do we get from eight to 10?
Notice I didn't do, how do weget from four to 10, right?
It's incremental small steps that we maketogether as a team that we're gonna get
ourselves to that profitability level.
That happens to be our goal.
But to your question, Jason, you need tofind out do they know how we make money,
and if not, educate the teams leadership.

(15:32):
Everyone in between of how we make money.
So, and can I throw something out?
Sure.
Are you a fan of open
book management then?
As far as sharing those types?
I can't imagine
running a company withoutopen book management.
Very good.
And the question is, why, right?
How, how do you run a companywhen the team does not know what
are where we spend our money?
You know, at the end ofthe day, it's a checkbook.
You have dollars in and dollarsout, and the team understands

(15:52):
the checkbook mentality, right?
And if you spend more money that'sin your checkbook, it's a loss.
And lucky for us.
Shouldn't have overdraft fees.
But my point is, is you know, whenyou're making, spending decisions
and thinking about profits, dowe have the money to pay for it?
And how are we gonna pay for it?
And getting the team to think aboutthat besides you, the owner mm-hmm.
Is imperative.
Because otherwise you're gonna do what,you're gonna carry the ulcer yourself.

(16:14):
Mm-hmm.
And you're never gonna be able todo better without talking to your
team about figuring out how to bringmore pennies to the bottom line.
Well, and I'll, I'll build off of that.
You know, I think it, the penny exerciseis like one of my favorites to use, but.
Uh, it's also finding out whatworks for your company and, and
what you can connect with them.
Um, I was just at a peer groupvisit and they have a, a little

(16:38):
bit more of a, a. Way to connectwith their employees is bush light.
And instead of, instead of using pennies,they used a 30 pack of bush light and
they said, this is our revenue, right?
And they started pouring it intocups and they say, you know, if
we do well, this is what you get.
And they looked at it andthey're like, it's a sip.
Like, but when they startedpouring it out, it was like horror.

(17:03):
And it was like, this is whathappens when you wreck a truck.
And they poured it out andthey were like, oh, right.
But it made it, it connected with them.
You could have put pennies infront of them and it wouldn't
have had the same impact aspouring bush light down the drain.
Right.
And it, it's, it's finding also thebest way to convey that message of

(17:24):
how we make money and, and, and howit connects with your, your workforce.
It's relatability.
Correct.
You know, Bush
Light's a great way to measure thatbecause over time it could go from Bush
Light to Bud Light to Stella, and thenyou, you know, you know that the concept
is working, people understanding money.
Um, I think, Jim, to your point about openbook management, I think it's important.
I always tell everybody,baby, step into it.
I mean, you don't need to go full.

(17:45):
Right.
Full bore, open your p and l talkabout everything and overwhelm people.
Um, I think a, a good baby step that,that we took is, and, and we tried to make
it, the, the penny exercise is fantastic.
We personally use that.
I've, I've coached a lot to that.
Um, and the biggest thing that wetalk about is, is visualize it.
So we would either lay them out on theconference room table with the company,

(18:06):
or, uh, at one point we used a hundreddollars bills, which led to other jokes.
We're not gonna go down thatpath, but it let them visualize
that if you just set off.
All of those dollars.
You know, it's a good visual for people.
Most of our clients and theiremployees are, I mean, we're
in, we make things beautiful.
So to be able to give them thatvisual is, is incredibly impactful for

(18:27):
them, and I think drives that home.
But the other thing is totake individual instances.
Uh, we talk about this a lot.
Anyone's who've ever heard us talk about,um, you know, what is it, what is a
device that's lost really cost, right?
So if you leave a backpack, um,like a leaf blower somewhere.
You know, what is a,what is a leaf blower?
500, 600 bucks.
And so they think, oh,that was a $500 loss.

(18:49):
Well, no, it's not.
If you're at a five or 10% foreasy math, 10%, you know, net
profit, then it's a $5,000 backpackthat just costs the company.
And so maybe that's a good way to try toget people to understand the financial
impact that comes along, uh, so thatwe make smart decisions, you know,
made the joke about the Salvation Army.
But, um, we, it was onethat I, I used a lot, right?

(19:11):
I mean.
You know, be, uh, be bold in thefact that we, we, we are for-profit
because for-profit leads to jobs,careers and growth in the industry.
Um, you shouldn't back down from that.
Don't be afraid of it.
Yeah.
When, and when I think of how do youmake that, you know, an easy bite-sized
chunk and you start to think through youraverage manager you hire, uh, doesn't

(19:33):
come in wanting to go sell stuff, right?
Like they got into this industryprobably not to go sell.
They got into this industrybecause they want to be outside.
They got into this industrybecause they wanna, you know.
Be able to work with plants, workwith, you know, the, the, the what the
yard and what the landscape provides.
Um, so we use that, likeyou mentioned the calendar.
And I always like to say withthe calendar, I mean with my
horticulture degree, I always say,let let the sales be dictated by

(19:56):
what the environment provides you.
Right?
So, uh, we do dormant pruning.
We do, uh, we do that in the fall.
When do we want to goprune missile toe in Texas?
We want to do that when thetrees don't have leaves.
Why?
Because it's the onlygreen in the tree, right?
I don't have to sell that,that's an easy sell because the
customer can relate to that.
They can see that my account managercan easily look up there and go,

(20:17):
what is that green thing in the tree?
Yeah, that's your,that's your missile toe.
We wanna prune that out.
Right?
And so, um, so I always say, let lethorticulture, let's science drive.
What's going on?
You know, what do we want to do inApril and may, you know, when we're in
the south, we wanna check irrigation.
Why do we wanna check irrigation?
Because it's about to be a hundreddegrees for a hundred days straight.
Right?

(20:38):
What do we know a client's gonna get bauh, upset and fire us about, they're gonna
fire us because the water doesn't work.
My grass is dying, my plants are dying.
You guys must not be doing anything right.
Um, and all that is, is just lettingyou know the environment, show us what
we need to be selling, and then wecan quickly script that and, and make
that into a sales system, um, that ourmanagers can go out and be effective with.

(21:01):
Mm-hmm.
And when it comes back to even thethings that, uh, again, Jim and
Barrett brought up with Kevin, alongwith the financial transparency of
an organization, we've seen a lot ofcompanies successfully roll out some sort
of financial education, knowing the firsttime it might not be perfect, right?
Knowing we might bump ourelbows, scrape our knees.
Boy, I didn't define that word, or I did,I, and I got 80 people looking at me.
But we've gotta start somewhere.

(21:21):
And so companies have taken overthis version of like a state of the
Union at the end of every month totalk about some high level numbers.
You might be talking to a team of 100.
30 of them might have no ideawhat we're talking about.
Mm-hmm.
20 of them might recognizesome words and be comfortable.
There might be 10 or 15 thatare on the edge of their seat.
'cause they really want tounderstand this, and that's
really who we're talking to.
So I would encourage everybodyto have a formal end of the

(21:44):
month, state of the union.
Here's, here's what our revenuewere, here's what our big costs were.
To Chris's point, here's what's coming up.
By the way, this isn't just aone way financial conversation.
This is, hey, we're leading into fall.
We just look that our margins aren'treally quite where they need to be.
Let's focus on these enhancementsthat the landscape is giving us.
But if we never take the time asan organization to slow down, talk

(22:05):
about financial education, havean opportunity where everyone from
our team hears the same thing.
Mm-hmm.
At the same time, we don't play thetelephone game through meetings and
end up with different numbers ormetrics that we're talking about.
If we can really close in on that monthlystate of the union financial conversation
that everyone knows is coming.
You will naturally have moreunderstanding as time goes on.

(22:26):
I would encourage everybodyas part of Open Book to get
comfortable with those end of themonth meetings with their teams.
And I, and I wanna say there's beenso many successes for the ones that
take that step and get some help ifyou don't feel comfortable doing it.
But the idea would be, we've seenpeople do price increases that
haven't renewed contracts in yearsand realize they weren't priced
the right way in their market.

(22:46):
They weren't priced to make moneyfor their team and for their company.
And so it allowed them to startreconnecting with what makes them
a profitable company, what aresome changes they need to make?
And the buy-in from the teamat that point gets a lot easier
because they know where we're going.
And where we're, where we're headedwith the profitability of the company.
And last, but at least I'd like,I'd be remiss if I didn't share
this, but you know, it's, it'sone thing about the financial

(23:07):
education at the end of the month.
The reality is as a leader, it'sabout the consistency of the financial
education at the end of the month.
Right.
This is not a one and done,and we don't talk about it next
month and not the next month.
Right.
Until you're prepared to starttalking about this and do it on a
regular basis, it's not gonna stick.
Mm-hmm.
And we can talk about thatfrom a finance perspective.
We can talk about thatfrom a safety perspective.
We can talk about that froman operations perspective.

(23:28):
And that's the hard part aboutbeing a leader is, is how do you
keep all those balls in the air?
But I can tell you consistency really is,is the piece that's the most important
thing at the end of the day on all theseeducation pieces we're talking about.
I love it.
And I want to, I would be remissif I didn't bring up that at,
at Grr Landscaping Company.
That meeting is called theGrow Meeting, and it is the
third Wednesday of every month.
Allah, Jim Calli.
Don't rethink when thismeeting's going to happen.

(23:49):
Oh, we're gonna do iton the 17th this month.
We'll do the 22nd next month.
Oh, we're on vacation that month.
We're gonna skip it in March.
'cause we're busy.
No, no, no, no, no.
To your point.
The third Wednesday of themonth, everybody knows we're
gonna talk about finance.
Yeah.
And the the only thing I'd add tothat, uh, is don't think it has to
be perfect the first time you do it.
Like, get comfortable with just beinguncomfortable and just say, look,
I'm just gonna wade into this space.

(24:10):
I'm just gonna do this and I'm probablygonna botch this 10 ways from Sunday, but
I'm gonna be I vulnerable and I'm be open.
I'm gonna let 'em know.
Hey guys, I'm gonna screwthis up, but we're gonna start
having this conversation.
We're gonna start digging into it.
Um, because naturally over timeyou will get better at it, right?
And you will get more consistent withit and people will start to see your
growth through the process as well.
Um, but sometimes that vulnerability,I think is what, honestly, it's

(24:30):
what gets the team to follow you.
It's what gets them to understandthat like, hey, they're in it for me.
I'm in it for them.
That's kind of whatwe're kind of going for.
So.
Don't wait until you have it.
Perfect.
And there's, there's other peoplethat are on this podcast that I'm sure
are listening that I'm gonna say, youknow, I'm talking directly to you, like
sometimes just moving forward is takinga step in the right direction, even
if it's not a hundred percent right.

(24:52):
Well, let's, let's segue intosomething that's gonna be exciting.
We, we follow a, a process.
We go people, process profits, right?
And we've covered profits, we'vecovered some process changes,
some things we wanna look at.
More importantly.
And most importantly,we look at our people.
And so the next question for us is, as weare growing and we're changing, sometimes
the people that are gonna be with ustoday aren't necessarily gonna be the ones

(25:15):
that take us to where we wanna be next.
And so what do we do as far as how dowe work with our people, and then how
do we grow with this people plan as weneed to make some changes for our future?
And I'd like to ask you guys,each questions on what you're
seeing as far as best practicesand changes that people are, are
taking steps to make those changes.
Well, I, I can jump into thisone too, because I think that.

(25:36):
What I've seen become a lot more prevalentin our peer groups and in our companies
is we are starting to get career pathsout there showing people the path forward.
Um, it, it's easier to createretention within a company as well.
When you can see the path you're gonna,you're more willing to stay on it.
Right?
And, you know, as you grow.

(25:59):
People reach their limits andunderstanding what those limits are,
it's, you have to be open and honestabout, yeah, I, you were the leader
now, but what worked for us then we'redouble that size and that's outside of
your skillset, but in order for you togrow, this is how we're gonna help you
grow and this is what you need to do.
That doesn't mean that, you know, we,we take you out back and, you know,

(26:24):
you're no longer with the company.
Right.
But it, it's one of those things of.
You, you wanna make sure thatyou're finding the right seat
for the people on the bus.
Right?
And the other thing that I, I reallysee people doing more and more is that,
that one-on-one conversation, right?
Making sure that they're intentionalabout this is why you're not in this
role, or this is what we see for you.

(26:45):
And, and really being intentional abouthaving those conversations so there's no
gray area for them to create a story ofwhy or why not they're getting this role.
B I'm gonna add onto that.
Yes.
Um, the most important part about whatyou just described was, is that you're,
you're not leaving ambiguity in what andwhere they're going next with ambiguity.

(27:07):
It becomes, whatever is in their head iswhat they think the truth is gonna be.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
But if you lay out that path, I lookat it as a runway, you build trust.
Right.
And so the, and, and as long as you'reexecuting based on the commitments
that you've made together, you'llgo somewhere if that individual is
not appropriate for the next role.
You may determine that as aleader, but the reality is.
Wouldn't it be a better story if theperson said, well, you gave me the path

(27:27):
to get there, and they wouldn't figuredout how to get there, but at least
you're giving 'em the rules of the gameand engagement and can put themselves
in a position to get themselves there.
Mm-hmm.
That's success.
I think we also, we quicklylook at this and we think, um,
employees on our team, right?
But I mean, this also applies ifyou're the owner of the company, right?
Like, I had the fortunate pleasure ofgoing and working for a, a, a business

(27:47):
owner who recognized that he had hithis limit on what he could do with
the company and to create a role.
Uh, for himself, uh, and then allow me tocome in and be able to take the company
in a direction that he knew it neededto go and where he wanted it to go.
So I think there's always thatelement of this should start
with yourself too, right?
As well as your team.

(28:08):
Uh, and then go from there.
And, you know, Barry, youmentioned the bus and, and are
you in the right seat on the bus?
And, and go back to the basics.
You did this on day one with us.
Your red, yellow, greenexercise with your org chart.
Are you, are you consistently doing that?
Are you, are you doingit throughout the year?
Um, and are you applyingsome metrics to it?
You know, whether it's a smart goalor ways to measure, measure, you

(28:31):
know, the true impact and performance.
Uh, and then go from there.
And so that's the first half of it.
The second half of it is how doyou go and action that new role
that you may need to create?
For that new career path.
And I think what we tend to do, andwhat this is a common conversation I've
had a lot recently in accountabilitycalls, um, is I need to create roles

(28:54):
and responsibilities for each role.
I need to define them.
And I think we, we kind of get AFib overthis and we panic and we start to think
about, you know, what does that look like?
Well start with the basicsto, you know, define the role.
And the most simplest way to lookat this is I want one sentence.
You should be able to have onesentence that defines the role so that

(29:15):
when you give Chris that job, Chriscan go in one sentence, described
to a client what he does, right?
So if that's the goal at theend, then start with that, right?
The rest of the roles and responsibilitiescan be a bullet point list.
It doesn't need to be anything morethan that, but that one sentence
we, we spend to, we tend to buildthese novels, these four page
documents that describe what we do.

(29:35):
At the end of the day, bulletpoints are great, but just get a
description so that employee knowsexactly what their role is, what they
do, and and what impact they have.
And then lastly, and then I'llbe quiet 'cause I care about
this a lot, is the why, right?
If you're gonna move anemployee, what's, why, why are
we moving that employee, right?
Um, what, why does thecompany need growth?

(29:57):
Why does this role exist?
I think that's a really key point.
It's almost as important as thefinancial element of it is that.
That transparency around, you know,why the change is occurring, um, so
that they buy into it and believe it.
Yeah.
And Kevin, I think you touchedon some really good stuff there.
And the, the only thing Iwould add to that is it's, it's
the alignment aspect, right?

(30:17):
Uh, I'm coaching, uh, anotherindividual right now, and all of
these things are clearly laid out.
And as I kind of start talking toboth leadership and I'm talking to the
manager, uh, what I'm finding is, is thealignment between the two is not the same.
Uh, the growth goals for the company.
Don't align with what this individualwants to be doing, who's been
there for a very, very long time.

(30:39):
Um, so that's one.
Number two, the expectations of what thisindividual was supposed to be getting
done in their day to day has grown overthe course of the last 3, 5, 10 years.
Great point.
Um, and now the structure of whatthe organization looks like does no
longer, it no longer aligns with.
What this gentleman isdoing on a day-to-day basis.
Right.

(30:59):
And so what is being asked of him?
Yeah, he's gonna fail because asI'm sitting here going through what
his expectations are of what he'ssupposed to be getting done, I'm like.
He's not capable of this.
Like nobody, no individual could doeverything you're asking and produce
what, what you're asking to be produced.
Um, so there's some organizational stuffthat needs to happen from a, an alignment
standpoint to make sure that we getbetter direction, better organizational

(31:21):
setups, uh, and systems and processesin place so that we can get to these
growth goals that have been laid out forthe company, the owner, the team member.
Um, and so is he the right person?
Maybe, maybe not.
We will decide.
But I do think with the alignmentof what the expectations are and
starting to put a few more peopleinto seats, I think we will see more

(31:44):
success in that person being successfulover the extended period of time.
You know, and maybe that role looks alittle bit different, um, but that, that
factors into the equation too, you know?
Mm-hmm.
So, as you go back to all thestuff you mentioned, I think that
alignment is, is pretty critical too.
The
biggest thing I'm hearing is thatwe're playing offense with our team,
where I think this is a new thing.
To Barrett's point, people werenot playing offense in terms

(32:04):
of planning with their people.
It was always on the defense,Hey, what's next for me?
Which is a very common questionthat people get asked, what's next?
So we have to be thinking aboutthat for our team as well,
because some team members.
Uh, they're not thinking aboutwhat's next for them at all.
They're coming into work every day.
They're doing their job, they're punchinga clock, or they're running a crew, or
they're managing properties, and they havenot thought about what's next for them.

(32:25):
And again, that's no fault of their own.
They're just doing their work.
But we owe that to them as a leadershipteam, as a management team, to show them
a path for what's next and what's next.
Might be doing the exact same roleyou're doing in a different capacity.
It might be moving up in theorg chart, but for us to be in
control of what's next for them.
Again, control is, sounds like aword that is maybe like dirty, right?
Right.
Like we're controlling this for them.
It's, no, we just wanna make surethat we are providing opportunities.

(32:47):
And for us to do that, we have tohave some control over this process.
So we're gonna play offense with it.
So again, what's next doesnot need to be a promotion.
Right.
But what's next should be on theminds of us for our team members.
Because for them, younger teammembers, especially being in a role
for six months, they feel like they'vebeen in that role for six years.
Right.
And they're one of a hundredteam members that we have.

(33:08):
And.
We should be giving them more than1% of our time, right in that math
equation I'm giving you, but reallyunderstanding that these team members
that we have, this is their livelihood.
This is what they're hanging their hat on.
This is what they're talking aboutat family parties, at Christmas,
at Thanksgiving, over the 4thof July, your career comes up.
And so if we're not helping themunderstand what's next for them,

(33:30):
somebody else might do that.
And so just a good way to lead intothis is what's next for our team and
how do we, again, put controls in placeso that we can guide them through that.
Absolutely.
I want to jump in one last timetoo, because Kevin brought something
up about, you know, we could talkabout this forever, something I'm
passionate about as well, but I thinkas a company grows, the smaller.

(33:50):
You are, it's easier to wear multiplehats and you're, you're required to.
But as that company grows, we needto start defining roles for the
company, not around a person, becausethen we start making exceptions.
Then we start creating extenuatingcircumstances that actually make us less
efficient versus, 'cause we're tryingto hold onto a person or keep them happy

(34:13):
versus what's right for the business.
Right.
And what's the skillset that we need?
For the business and that will help usbe the most effective, not, wow, I've
had this employee for 25 years and Ijust have to find a way to make it work
at the detriment to 99 other employees.
I love that.
You know what, you know what I appreciatemost about working with this group

(34:34):
right here as and the coaches, is thatwe can learn so much from each other.
We work with hundreds of clientsall over the country, and we get
to benchmark things like this.
We get to see firsthand when, whenchanges are happening, how to do
it well, what doesn't go well.
And I love you guys sharing these stories.
Um, it's a, it's a great segue segueto, um, what's your favorite story?

(34:56):
If you have a client story,what is your favorite story?
Oh man.
I've got, I've got one we can do.
So there we go.
Maybe I'll use names.
We can believe 'em out ifnot, but I'll just use names.
Jeffrey Johns has been an ACEmember for a very long time.
Uh, he's got two sons, um,that are now in the business.
They're actually partof our peer groups now.
Very common in landscaping.
It's a family business.

(35:17):
And so as an owner, he had toremind his kids about the fact
that, hey, when we're at work.
We're not family.
This is a professional relationship.
So his son was coming into work, uh,a new member of the finance team and
uh, Jeffrey walked into his office andsaid, here, I ain't your daddy boy.

(35:39):
Yeah.
But that's a great story.
That encapsulates Jeffreyvery well as well.
But Jeffrey Johns was ourAce of the year last year.
An awesome guy.
But I love that story about how.
He brought his kids into the business.
By the way, I'll second that.
When he, his son just got into oneof my peer groups and, uh, when he
was doing his introduction to thegroup, uh, he made it very clear.
He told the exact same story and he goes,yeah, and everybody asked the question,

(36:01):
so what's it like working with your dad?
And he goes, well, my dad was veryclear that at work, he's not my daddy.
It's like, uh, I have a wind story.
May not be great and funny, butit's, uh, one of the, one of
the ACEs that we go through.
It's, it's hard to make a lotof change or go through things.
And they were going through, I think,contract renewals for the first time.
And so they're doing cutting grass,you know, and per cut services, right?

(36:25):
And moving into a program where he wasgonna do package services and he realized
he, he wasn't even charging enough.
I think he was charging like $20 a cut.
And at that point I was like,I think that was a 1990 price.
This is, this is about long a while ago.
Uh, so we got him to, you know,UpToDate pricing with package pricing.
He goes, I think I'm gonnalose all of my clients.
And he was fearful of that.

(36:45):
I said, okay, let's go afterjust a third of your clients.
Let's do a third of your clientsand you'd be okay with losing.
And so he sent out this whole deal.
He, out of a hundredclients, he lost 25 clients.
75 said yes.
And he was like, I'm making moremoney on the yeses than the ones that
I've lost out of the 25 that he lost.
A month or two later,20 of those came back.

(37:08):
Right?
And so he, he goes, oh mygosh, I'm doing the same work.
I'm making double themoney that I'm doing.
And I'm just like, that's the win.
That's the, that's the success of usgiving confidence to people that we
work with and just reaffirming thingsthat, you know, they need to do.
So that was a win for meand a, and a fun story.
So
my innovative story actually took placewith you, Chris, and I'll, I'll never

(37:29):
forget, walking into to the landscaperin Seattle, Washington and seeing
all the lunches set up for the team.
Oh yeah.
Um, and, um.
And that all came from understandingthat, that the team members
were not eating properly.
It was had nothing to do with stoppinga gas station, didn't have the
money to stop at the gas station.
All right?
And when he found the need, he's like, Ithink we can take this internally with the

(37:50):
support team and we can provide lunches.
And I think, help mere, was it $10 a week?
He charged them.
Uh, yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
And for $10 For Ack lunch.
Yeah.
For for sack lunch.
And they got to pick what theirsack lunch was gonna be, and the
team put together the sack lunchesfor the week, every single week.
And I, that's a need thatwe're not thinking about.
He saw it as something that he couldprovide value to the, to the, to
the field, to the front line, right.

(38:12):
Um, and that warmed my heart.
And, and, and from an innovationperspective, it's funny that making
sure the team is fed at lunch isinnovative, but it was quite innovative
and it was listening to a need.
Yeah.
That was, he was one of our mostinnovative ACEs that we gave
the war to a couple years ago.
Right.
Um, yeah.
And it's something they get to elect into.
I remember that story very well.
Uh, they get to elect into it.
And the participation rate for whoelected into the lunches was what really?

(38:34):
I was like, eh, maybeit's just a small part.
No, it was a large majority of theteam that actually elected into it.
Um, and then he made it a whole teamenvironment of what and how we get
people to participate making lunchesand, you know, and what goes in the
lunches and you get to fill out yourorder form just like you're at a hotel
to what goes in your lunch and theyprovide it and out in the truck it goes.
And so, yeah, that was a great one.

(38:56):
And so, uh, it's funny, I was sitting herethinking, uh, of what is, what is a funny
story I've had over the last 10, 11 years.
Uh, and mine comes back to,uh, honestly, it was the very
first trip I had just started.
We were going to a company event, uh,to go speak at, uh, at a conference
in Cabos, new Mex or Cabos, Mexico.

(39:18):
And uh, and I'll never forget because Iwas a late addition to the trip and the
event was being hosted at a hotel that,uh, I was not able to get a room at.
And so very quickly we we're like, Hey, weneed to get Chris a room for this event.
And so I ended up down thestreet at another hotel.
And, uh, and I'll relate this all backbecause I had an opportunity there.

(39:41):
Uh, I'll, I'll paintthe picture of the room.
The room was you walk in through thelobby of a hospital and after you go
through the lobby of this hospitalin Mexico, you make your way to the
back office, which is the hotel.
And then when you get to the hotel,you notice everything is tile floors.
You notice that everything has handrails.

(40:01):
And very quickly you realize, oh myGod, I'm at a hospital for just like.
Plastic surgery treatments,medical surgeries for people
who come from other parts of theworld for healthcare in Mexico.
And uh, and so I got to stay at this hoteland I relayed this all back because in
doing that, I found out really quickly itwas me and one other guy that got to stay

(40:24):
at this hotel and attend this conference.
And it just so happened hewas a leader of all regional
sales, uh, for a very large, um.
Commercial equipment company and, uh,and so he and I would load the little bus
and we'd make our way to the conferenceevery morning and every afternoon.
And we became very good friendsand actually stayed in touch
for years and years after that.

(40:45):
Um, as a result of that, because itwas this funny, relatable thing of
like, I can't believe we're here.
Like, what are we doing here?
Like everybody here has bandagesand packages and stuff going on.
And yet here we aregoing to this conference.
And so, uh, so I really, Istill still talk to the guy,
you know, here 10 years later.
Chris, is this the rental carwhere the bumper falls off?

(41:06):
Right?
There was a rental carsituation there as well.
Yes.
Yes it was.
And you didn't get upsold for two,for one facelifts before you left.
You know, I moved out quickly.
I left you quickly.
Yeah.
So let's not bring up rental cars.
That's,
I was gonna say, there'smore than one story, right?
There
is, oh yeah.
Metro Trail.
Let's just say we know howto work the rental cars.
Well, as we wrap this up, um, if wecould all take a step back and look

(41:30):
at, um, what is one pearl item that youwish every landscaper knew, um, that can
make a difference if they hear this onelittle pearl today from each one of us.
We'll start with you, Vince.
Yeah.
That, um, over communicationis needed for everybody.
That if you're ever thinking aboutare you communicating enough, just
have your blanket answer be no.

(41:50):
How can I find more ways tocommunicate with my team, more ways
to communicate with my clients?
Great answer,
Kevin.
I mean, is it cliche to say thatyou just took my, um, but you
did, you genuinely did say, Chris.
I was gonna say there's no suchthing as over-communicating, so
I guess it's one in the same.
Uh, so for me is, is certainlyremember why you got into this

(42:11):
industry and remember what broughtyou to wanting to push the mower.
Uh, I, I think at first, um.
Because I really thinkthat's what separates you.
That's why you grew a business.
That's why you got into the business.
That's why you have teams ofpeople that work for you now.
Um, so if you just remember likeat the end of the day, we're, we're
planting trees, we're plantingbushes, we're mowing grass.

(42:31):
That is one product thatwill never go away, right?
Like it will always existfrom now until forever.
And so, uh, just remember why you do it.
I'm actually gonna stealChris's from earlier, right?
He said, you know, just get it started.
And I think it's really.
Progress over perfection.
We try so hard to be perfect forour team members and roll out the

(42:53):
perfect product when in reality welearned more through the progression
of it and just getting it started.
So I would say progress over perfection.
Yep.
Awesome.
Mine would be, um, you can't do it alone.
You know, reach out to a team ofpeers, a team of professionals.
Get, get yourself out of your head.

(43:13):
And get help.
And this is ultimately where peoplecan help you and that you're gonna
be a better person for your team.
And that's a perfect segue becauseyou and I started this business
over 11 years ago, and mine wasgonna be, you can't do it alone.
Right.
And together, we chose to do this.
And look at us now and whatwe've learned, um, all these
pearls are about, you're not.
Every single one of themoments we just mentioned.

(43:34):
Right?
And um, whether it be the Ace peer groupthat you just mentioned, Jason, I mean,
that's one of the largest reasons tobe a part of this, is to get yourself a
board of advisors that when you hit thesemoments of what do I, where do I go next?
It doesn't have to bea frustrating moment.
It actually could be an innovativemoment of what, what do I do next?
You've got a set of partnersor a set of coaches like us
that'll help you get there.

(43:55):
You're not alone.
Um, and where you can take your businessis anywhere you want to take it.
Thank you for listening to this episodeof Roots of Success, brought to you by
the subject matter Experts at McFarlandStanford have a question you want our
coaches to tackle in a future episode.
You could submitthat@mcfarlandstanford.com

(44:15):
back slash podcast.
And to find more helpful content forMcFarland Stanford, follow us on X,
LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook.
If this or any of our episodes have piquedyour interest in ACE Peer Groups, we
encourage you to join us at ACE Discovery.
Just check out the eventstab@mcfarlandstanford.com.
This is Jason New, co-founder andprincipal at McFarland Stanford.

(44:37):
We'll see you next time.

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Ep 058 - ACE Coaches Roundtable: Daddy issues and Busch Light Math

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep 058 - ACE Coaches Roundtable: Daddy issues and Busch Light Math