June 19, 2025 • 46 mins
What if “just sod” was the secret to dominating a niche landscape market? In this episode, Tommy Cole sits down with Tom and Dana Groh of Minnesota Sodding Company (MSC) to uncover how they turned a teenage side-hustle into one of the most respected specialty contractors in the Midwest. From firing up equipment on commercial job sites to building pro-level athletic fields—even tackling the legendary Minnesota Twins’ Target Field—the Grohs share how a relentless focus on relationships, a data-driven approach to pricing, and a true team mentality have powered their growth. If you’re looking for real talk on running a people-first business, out-coaching the competition, and navigating the unique challenges of working with your spouse, this is an episode you can’t miss.
THE BIG IDEA:
Protect relationships; build success through strong teams.
KEY MOMENTS:
[06:06] Career Growth Through Early Experience
[07:31] Preferred Day: Fieldwork Team Spirit
[10:54] Local Challenges, Distant Successes
[13:21] "Breaking Into Target Field Construction"
[18:55] "Challenge Accepted: Hotel Duck Photo"
[22:30] Discovering Element: Streamlining Operations
[26:04] Adjusting Markets for Profitability
[29:53] "Focus on Work, Not Profit"
[31:48] Impactful Bonus Programs Boost Performance
[36:50] Building Team Relationships
[37:24] Longtime Team as Family
[43:03] Navigating Marriage and Business Together
QUESTIONS WE ANSWER
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What are the keys to building strong client and vendor relationships in the landscaping industry?
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How can you find your niche in the landscaping or lawn care business?
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What is the importance of revenue per hour as a KPI in landscaping businesses?
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How do commercial and residential landscaping projects differ?
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What are effective bonus and profit sharing programs for field crews in service businesses?
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How can technology and software transform operations and efficiency in landscaping companies?
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What are some challenges and solutions for bidding on projects outside your local area?
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What steps should you take to grow a landscaping company from a small startup to handling major commercial contracts?
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How can you create a culture of teamwork and low turnover in a small or medium-sized service business?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The Roots of Success podcast isfor the landscape professional
who's looking to up their game.
We've got a brain trust of experts tohelp you nurture the roots of a successful
business and grow to the next level.
This is The Roots of Success.
Welcome to Roots of Success Podcast,and I'm your host Tommy Cole.
(00:21):
And we have two amazing guests,my good friends and clients Mr.
Tom Grow and Miss Dana grow.
How are you doing?
We are doing great today.
Thanks for inviting us onto your podcast.
Yep.
Tom, Tom, you, you have the floor now.
(00:41):
How are you doing?
It's good.
I'm trying to match yourenergy, so we'll see how we do.
Yeah.
This is all, this is gonna be a good one.
Tom and Dana come from thegreat state of Minnesota.
Did I say that right?
Yeah, you said it right.
They're a Minnesota sodding companyup there in the north, and they
(01:01):
have an absolutely amazing businessthat they've been working on since.
Early nineties.
And it's a very unique business.
Not a lot of like planting trees andbuilding fire features and pools.
This is a very unique niche in themarket, and this is what I love about it.
(01:22):
So what, why don't, withoutgetting too much details, Tom, I
know you're just itching to sayhow this company got started.
What is MSE all about?
Give us a, give us the lowdown.
Oh, MSC was a startedwhen I was 15 years old.
My mom would pick up my workers withher Nissan Sentra and we'd pick 'em all
(01:43):
up, my classmates and drop us off at ourjobs that I would ride my bike to sell.
And we would get the sodprojects in the developments
outside of Minneapolis St. Paul.
And so that's how itkind of started in 1991.
And I had a lawn mowingbusiness, door-to-door lawn
mowing type stuff as well.
And every time I needed to make alittle extra money, we'd have to
(02:05):
out a yard so that I started saying,well, why are we mowing grass if
we could just keep sodding yards?
And, and that's how we, that'spretty much how we started and
ended our lawn mowing career.
Just focus on so, andinstalling grass on yards.
Sodding and installing grass.
That's it.
And so that got started at, atthe ripe old age of 15, but.
(02:29):
You carried it on.
I mean, I don't know manycompanies that really specialize
in just saw installation.
Is that something that youlike, got really excited about?
Or, or your clients took you thereand you kind of followed them?
How, how did that really start the niche?
(02:49):
Well, the niche really startedas first it fed a couple things.
I'm kind of instant gratification,
so you can instantly feel youreffect at the end of a job.
And so a landscape projectscan go on for months.
Until the grass is down, nobody bringsa camera out until the grass is down.
And I think kind of that'show it feeds my, my inner why
(03:11):
of the instant gratification.
And it's pretty fun to, to be thereright at the end of the project.
We, we, we look like the heroes,even though everybody else does all
the hard work before we get there.
So.
yeah, yeah.
That's it is instant.
When you put saw down, it is like.
So satisfying to go from somethingthat's just dirt or bad side
(03:32):
to something that's so perfect.
And you just wanna, like, so when you doa saw job, you just wanna like lay on it
like a brand new carpet in your house.
Yeah.
Well, I don't really necessarilylay on it, but it is fun to run
through the sprinklers if it's hot.
Sounds good.
So years go by, right?
You might have probably gotten acouple pickup trucks, a few employees.
(03:54):
Things are rolling.
Take us through that mid partof, of trying to figure out a
business and how it was going.
I'm sure everything wasperfect and you had no issues.
No, that wasn't necessarily true.
Went to the University of Minnesotastudied horticulture and turf
emphasis in turf management.
And then got outta schooland that's where I met Dana.
(04:17):
Was at the church.
The church school atUniversity of Minnesota.
And then upon leaving there we both spentthree years working for a large landscape
contractor here in Minneapolis, St.
Paul, and still doing thesod and seed work for them.
Good.
Brought some of our workersover to that company.
And that's really where we met almostall the people we work with today.
(04:38):
And it's, they're still in our networkand a lot of 'em work with us at MSC.
As well as some of our customers as wellare have come out of that experience.
So we spent three years each ina really large landscape company.
They were part of the landcare rollup,TrueGreen, Landcare, rollup, and
eventually bought out by Valley Crest,
Yeah.
(04:58):
Type organization.
And just really, that was just kindof a fun, fun era to be part of.
And we've been kind of chasingthat feeling ever since
to building something great and.
And for our workers and, and our,our friends in the business, so.
Yeah.
So speaking of meeting Dana and, andjoining in forces, Dana, did you tell
(05:21):
me about the early days of workingwith your husband As far as like
who does what, who's on first andwho's on second, who's on third base?
And this sort of, let's starta business after we've been
working with a national provider.
Yeah, that was, it was really agreat experience working for a
large landscape company in the TwinCities, and that's really where
(05:41):
we learned the commercial market.
And the commercial market is so muchdifferent than the residential market.
And through the experience of workingfor the, for that company for three
years, that's when we decided that wewanted to focus on commercial work.
It's just a differentpace, different customer.
And so upon leaving there, wewent back and started running
Minnesota Sodding company full-time.
(06:04):
And we did not by any meanshave any systems together.
So we were definitely chaotic back thenand it was pretty much all hands on deck.
So everybody, we didn't really have aseparation of duties quite, quite yet.
Then,
okay.
it was, it was a little roughgoing there for a while.
Yeah, it's a little rough, but talkabout, all over your website and
(06:26):
all of your social media, Dana isheavily involved, whether it be
operations, the financials and things.
What, what, what gets you out there inthe field to experience all of that?
There's gotta be a lotof good, juicy stuff.
Let me back up just one, one more.
I wanna back up and also commendand recommend if, if you are young.
(06:51):
I love getting experience at a nationallevel or a large company at a college
or at a high school at some point,because typically those companies
have some systems of some sort, right?
They've gotten large for, fora reason, but you can learn on
their dime a little bit, right?
And, and take a few years.
And my recommendation is spend three tofive years learning everything you can.
(07:14):
That's a very good knowledge base.
There's systems, there'ssoftware, there's SOPs type stuff.
Generally speaking at that level.
And then if you wanna branchoff at that time, go forward.
So talk about, talk aboutyour experience out there.
I love seeing Dana out in the field.
I mean, there's some fun, there's somefunny videos and pictures of you wearing.
(07:37):
I'll call 'em Beanie Hats.
You may call 'em somethingdifferent up north, but out there
in the field and just grinding.
What do the field peoplesay about all that?
No.
When I get the opportunity to workin the field, that's always one
of my favorite days of the season.
I was actually just working onthe, with the crew on Monday.
It wasn't very fun.
The, that weather was really bad, butno, we all have fun together and we
(08:02):
just always make it a good day and.
I think, you know, they don'talways, like, they don't ask
like, why is she out here?
You know, it's, it's just we're,we work hard to be one big team
and we really strive to make ourteam to build our bench wide.
So a lot of us are able todo a lot of different things.
It's not just like, I don't have tostay in the office 'cause I'm not
(08:22):
able to run the equipment and whatnot.
I can get, you know, get out thereand get things done as well in the
Yeah.
Yeah.
the team.
Well you just gotta make sureTom is behaving out in the field.
That's probably your mostobservation in the field.
Just making sure he is doingwhat he's supposed to be doing.
Right.
Not,
Right.
playing.
Right.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, He doesn't,he doesn't like to miss out.
(08:44):
I was on the same job, butthey put me in the excavator,
so I couldn't talk to anybody.
Some distance.
Yeah.
Put me in a cabin, an excavator.
Everybody stayed 10
The cab and we, we'lllock it from the outside.
Yeah.
You just keep digging.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So talk about msc.
So I, our audience iswondering like, what is this?
Okay.
It's not just a so install company.
(09:05):
It's not like you're getting apallet of square and, and ham places.
Go check these people out.
Unbelievable install.
So tell me about whatspecifically you guys do.
Well, I guess we, we, we havea couple of different areas.
So we have what we consider our newconstruction, which is basically
large office warehouse type projects.
(09:27):
New construction.
We also have a athletic fieldconstruction division where we, we
grade and build pro level ball fieldsas well as municipal and high schools.
And even little league, we builta t-ball field and or not t-ball
wiffle ball field, which is way cool.
So we built a pro level wiffle ballfield in South Dakota for a small
(09:50):
town, and it's one of the coolestprojects we've ever been part of.
Wow.
So a shout out to them in South Dakota.
But yeah, we travel we do some workout in Phoenix as far south as Kansas
City, far east as dent Detroit.
We've done work all over thenation with our ball field stuff.
(10:11):
And then we do something that wecall maintenance, but no mowers.
So our maintenance, no mowers is basicallyspraying weeds, fertilizing top dressing,
slit seating, and the renovation work.
Ball fields as well.
So that's another piece ofour business that, that we do.
But yeah, we, we don't own anylawnmowers and and we do have
a prairie division as well.
(10:32):
Most of our commercial projects now haveprairie and native seeding their sites,
and so we have that we install prairiesand then we also maintain them as well
Wow.
Fascinating.
So tell me about if you're, you're biddingwork outside of the town that you live in.
How does that happen?
(10:53):
And I want our audience tounderstand like what, what, how.
There's all, and I, I know some ofthis, it's per diem, travel, hotel, all
these things that you have to include,like tell us that learning experience that
you had to figure out and then also bid.
well one of the hardest challengesis the fact that we've had
(11:14):
targets that we've done that arefour or five hour drives away.
Yet we didn't get the ones on eitherside of our town that we live in.
So,
Wow.
So we'll, we'll, we'll do targets allover the us but somehow the ones that
are only five miles from our shop, wedon't win the bins on those, but put
people in a hotel with per diems andthey'll, then, they'll wanna hire us.
So
Don't quite understand allthe ins and outs of why we get
(11:35):
certain jobs that we don't.
But almost all of our work thatwe get is relationship based.
It's a trust, trusted relationshipthat we have with the contractors.
You know, either the general contractorsand or the landscape professionals
that we work with and partner with.
So almost all of our work isa partnership type quoting
(11:59):
and getting.
Yeah, that's good.
Jobs are really interesting.
A lot of times it's quick turnaround.
We had our well my most memorable job thatwas an out of town job for an athletic
field was we got a call like late morningand they said the current contractor's
not able to fulfill the project andso will you guys be able to come and
(12:21):
help us out and finish the project?
So we literally were on theroad By what, two or three?
Yeah, two or three in after, on our way.
Honor way to Kansas City andwe were working the next day.
yeah.
wow.
But you know, as a company, wedon't like to say no to work.
We
Yeah.
figure out how to make it happen.
So that was, that was quite the marathon,
If it's your client, right it, you're
gonna jump, jump on and go.
(12:43):
And I think that's the thrill thatboth of you love is the thrill
of this sort of issue or thisthing that we need to accomplish.
And I feel like you get the team and themorale and the equipment all together.
It's almost like having a bigfootball or baseball event
that you have to prepare for.
I think you two love that versus the.
(13:03):
Every single day.
It's a like kind of repeatevery day type deal.
And that's no easy task because there'sa lot of planning involved along the way.
Talk about one of my most favoriteprojects that you guys got involved
in that also had to, it's, it'sit your, in your state, talk about
the Minnesota Twins target fieldand how you got that contract.
(13:29):
And then I think youwere selected to be the.
Labor force, right?
Labor behind, all behindthat entire project.
Talk about that for a bit.
Well, we're gonna probably ruffle afew feathers with the story, but the
start, the early, early part of it isthat I had heard that in order to bid
on the target ball field construction,you had to be in a a pre-bid meeting.
That hap took place a year beforethe work was scheduled to go.
(13:53):
Even though we weren't qualified to buildthe field, I still got myself in the room.
Everybody was in the room and you had tosign in and there was a piece of paper
that went around the room with everyone'sphone number and email and name on it.
And after the meeting, I went upto the secretary and I asked if she
could make a photocopy of that list.
And I called everybody on that list andsaw and asked who was gonna bid on that
(14:15):
and asked that we would be their partners.
So that's really how we entered intothe athletic field world, was just
us sitting in a meeting and you know,basically like knocking on doors.
So door knocking as I started that in thenineties on my bike with door hangers.
That's basically what we did toget the into the Minnesota Ball.
(14:37):
They're brand new Target Field Stadium.
The other piece that reallyworked out well with us is that
we have a great relationship.
We are a union contractorand we are by choice.
And we absolutely love our partnershipwith our local, local 5 63.
And, but what the it is istypically in the sports turf
world, it's, it's traveling.
(14:59):
Companies will travel from out infields Incorporated out of Atlanta,
Georgia was awarded the contract.
They awarded the sod installation togo to Grass Turf Farms in Colorado.
And basically our union blockedboth of them from being able
to bring their labor in.
They said you have tohire Minnesota Labor.
But we had great relationshipwith our union and they said,
(15:21):
you'll have a great partner ifyou work with MSC to do the work.
And so that's where our partnershipsformed and those things the, the com,
both companies non-union companiescoming in the town, we ended up
following them all over the country.
After the Minnesota Twins.
They, they're like, thisis a, a great experience.
And that's really what kindof kicked off and started our,
(15:44):
our career in sports turf.
Yeah.
Relationships,relationships, relationships.
Tom Dana, you two are probablysome of the best I've ever seen.
Maintain that from a work standpointand a and a personal standpoint.
Why are you two so good at this?
(16:04):
I think I'm, this is kind of fun.
I think you have to really respectwho brought you to the dance.
I think both in personal and at work,I, I, we find it interesting at work is
so many people will chase once they getin and they'll try to box somebody out.
And that creates a trustissue and fear of somebody
introducing you to their customer,
(16:25):
thinking that you'regonna try to take 'em.
And we have spent our entire careerrespecting who brought us to the
dance and who brought us to the table,and we protect that relationship.
Highly.
And I just, I, I preach that toour workers and our, our family
and our kids who are startingtheir own businesses as well.
(16:45):
And we just like, youreally have to protect those
relationships and your reputation
Yeah.
definitely.
Dana, what, what, what doyou, what do you have to say?
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely importantto protect your relationships, not
only with your customers, but also withyour vendors, because your vendors.
Are the ones that are ultimatelypart of the success of you getting
your job done on time as well.
(17:06):
So there, I mean, sometimes Idon't think the vendors get enough
credit for what they do either.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's not about, this is how wea lot of times treat our vendors.
Hey, Bob, and I need to get a price.
I need a price right now.
What can you best do for me?
Or thanks, click bye.
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
That happens, especiallyin the commercial world.
I've been a general contractor.
(17:27):
I've been in dirt construction fora long time and that's what that is.
And it should not be that.
It should be, it shouldbe a two-way relationship.
I'm gonna put in everything I gotand it's more about than just picking
up the phone, getting gimme a price.
'cause I've
been on that side of thefence and it's rough.
It is
cutthroat, it's nasty, it's ugly.
(17:48):
People yell and scream.
About the bottom and you guys aren'ta part of that, and it's proof
that relationship and nice peoplewin in commercial construction.
It can be done at the end of theday and you guys have proven it.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell a little story
and Tom's gonna love this.
Tom's probably like, ohmy gosh, what did I do
when we met?
(18:10):
We met in Orlando.
You'll remember this storyrandomly at an element conference.
Super fun.
Lots of people, good energy.
And for some reason Tom stood out.
I don't have any idea why Tom stood out.
Maybe the red shirt or maybejust his awesome personality and
relationship building skills.
(18:32):
For whatever reason, my dad's name wasTom, so maybe there was a connection there
and I was trying to get you guys involvedin h peer groups and we're talking
about traveling and all this thing and.
Where are you going next?
I feel like this was November-ish,maybe October, November.
I can't remember.
Maybe
December.
yeah, it was winter.
(18:53):
so we're talking and hesays, when's your next trip?
And I said, I'm going towhere am I, Eugene, Oregon.
Right.
I was going to Eugene, Oregon.
And he said, man, that must be fun.
That's great.
And you made me a challenge.
Right.
A challenge was great.
You're going to Eugene.
And I told you about thehotel I was staying at.
It's cool.
(19:14):
Like a college type hotel and calledthe graduate and I told you all
about it and I said, there's thisfamous duck there when you walk in.
It's got Nike all over forthe University of Oregon.
And he said, sounds good.
I need you to go take a picture in frontof that duck and if you can do that,
I'll jump into the peer groups and I.Bet's on and you didn't know that my
(19:36):
number two strength is competition.
So when Tom said, I bet you they see ifyou can do that and see what happens.
Well, fast forward, right?
A few months go by and my trip getscompletely canceled and I'm free.
I feel like the only thing thatI had to do was get a picture in
front of the duck in Eugene, Oregon.
(19:58):
Yeah, I had one job.
I don't care about how the event oneand the meeting went, it literally
was get a picture in front of the dockand I was kind of freaking out that
I wasn't gonna get my opportunity.
And so I had to like text Tom and go,man, we, we got snowed in and, and we
can't get there, that it's iced over.
And he goes.
I still need a picture of the duck man.
I just what I need.
(20:20):
So a few months later we, we wereable to rebook the trip and I
got my official picture in frontof the duck, sent it to Tom.
You might have forgotten about it.
I don't know at that point.
But at that point I feel like therewas a bond, there was a trust.
And since then, honestly, Tomhas been a really good, genuine
(20:40):
friend of mine along the way.
And it's been awesome to see.
Him grow and develop and have funand, and let loose and, and all that.
So I, I, it's, it's kind of a funnystory about, I think he challenged
me a little bit and said if you cango do this, then I feel like our
relationship was was, was in the hands,
(21:01):
Anybody can coach,
right?
There's a lot of coaches in the worldthat if there's, how many coaches are
gonna go take a selfie with the duck?
So it's, it's kind of,
That, that would be me.
That would
we,
Oregon Ducks.
There you go.
Um,
to put our vendors through the pacesand that's just to build trust and to
see if they're gonna follow through.
(21:21):
it's like a little scavenger hunt,you know, a little bit of a test to
see, see what you can build there.
talk about software.
All right.
Let, let's get a little,little, little juicy here.
You guys have been involved in a, inin LMM for a while, I believe, but
really got hot and heavy here recently,maybe in the last couple years.
It felt like you kind of doubled downon it more talk about, give our audience
(21:46):
some advice or some awareness ofwhat that meant to you and your team.
Maybe it was a bit tricky at firston getting buy-in from the team.
It might have been buy-infrom your own self.
Talk about that a little bit.
So I think we joined LMN right aroundlike 2013 ish, give or take a year.
(22:07):
And so we were at to the point where weknew it just couldn't be the two of us
anymore, so we needed to bring on morepeople and there was no way we'd be
able to successfully bring on anybodywithout having some sort of program.
To be able to start streamlining MSC.
Yeah.
Which we had no systems.
I mean it was like, I, well I referto 'em as our Cal Cowboy area era.
(22:30):
It was basically like, you know,look at a job and you'd be like,
oh, that looks like a $3,000 job.
There was no like,serious thought behind it.
I mean, not always, but a lot of thetimes it would be just off the cuff,
like, oh, it looks like it's, you know,this many dollars kind, kind of a thing.
And so then we started searching around.
We actually hired somebody forI think probably about a year.
(22:52):
And they were working on buildingus a program in an internal program.
And then I think it waslike over the winter we just
started doing Google searches.
And Tom found LMN throughjust doing a Google search.
And so then we started messingaround or researching their budget.
Started working with theirbudget, did some estimating.
(23:14):
Then pretty much from then on iswhen we started using LMN, but
it really centralized MSC, all ofour information was in one spot.
We were able to confidently startbidding work and, you know, and winning
it and not having to think like,oh, are we gonna be behind ahead?
And and that's also the timethat we really started digging
(23:37):
into learning our numbers.
Okay.
We got into the business becausewe love, you know, we love
turf, we love landscaping.
Right?
And I know for me personally, I, I wasn'tthinking long term as a business owner.
It was all about just doing the fun work.
And I mean, honestly, our businesswas struggling before LMN and so that
(23:57):
just really helped turn us around.
So along with LMN really tuning intoLMN, we also hired a business consultant.
Between the two of them, it wasa total game changer for us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So.
What has it game changer for you guys?
Is it, is it, can you gimmespecifics on like, production?
(24:20):
Tom?
Maybe you're the person.
Like, tell me what, what was the gamechanger in operations or production like?
Is there a system, is there, isthere data that you guys use?
That said how, always ask thequestion how we know we're winning.
Right?
And you probably know
Mm,
As before it was like.
You know, if you're winning,if hopefully the client likes
(24:40):
it and you hit the deadline,
mm-hmm.
there's some missing parts to that, right?
Yes.
So there's a couple pieces I'm gonnasideline just for ever so second, but
Mike Laski was our first coach and heintroduced me a KPI that I did not have,
that we didn't have of revenue per hour.
(25:02):
Yeah.
As a metric on how to judge howsuccessful a day was a project
was as our revenue per hour.
And when revenue per hour wasintroduced, the light bulb went off.
And it was similar to, I read Good thebook, good to Great around the same era,
and Walgreens was the profit per customerand CVS or Snyder's, I think at the time
(25:26):
or whatever the company their competitorwas, was their profit per square foot.
And so those guys were battling itout in the pharmaceutical, you know,
selling pharmaceuticals to people.
And Walgreens was building astore on all the best corners, and
Snyder's was off in the corner,you know, on the cheap real estate.
And so all of a sudden havingthe revenue per hour introduced
(25:48):
was a life a game changer.
And then we were able to takethat operationally into, well,
what revenue, what work pays thehighest revenue per hour work?
So that became a judge every year since2012 you know, we've just been watching
our revenue per hour go up every yearand, and every season we take whatever
(26:11):
our average revenue per hour was theprevious year, and we make that the floor.
So everything that we bid thisyear is just above average work,
Next step up.
Yeah.
you know, and we go up another 10bucks an hour for this year, and then
all of a sudden next year, guess whatthe floor is now, this year's average.
So that has been the best operationalthing we do is to recognize, and
(26:31):
we've left some markets, there'ssome things we used to run the heavy,
heavy landscape roll off recyclingprogram where we haul the landscape
bins, they call 'em dumpsters bins.
And we would be recycling landscape wastefor all sorts of landscape contractors
while it, it doesn't pay the revenue perhour like some of our other work does now.
(26:55):
So.
It's too low.
So we've, it's even dictated some ofthe markets that we are in and the
types of services we offer becauseit's just, it can't compete with
some of the other stuff that we do.
So I think the revenue per hour is thebest KPI that was ever introduced to
us, and I have to give all the creditto Mike Laski introducing that to us.
So that's the piece of the software.
(27:16):
That element really hasgiven us that opportunity.
So, so one more quickquestion, Tom, about that.
So, is that watch, like,gimme some context.
Is that a daily thing?
Is it posted?
Are you watching, dothe crews understand it?
Like get a little more tactical,like how you guys, I, I know we've
heard that from the Element softwareand, and that awesome team that.
(27:39):
What that's there currently, just aboutrevenue per hour, but gimme a little more
tactical on that, how you guys use it.
We have it figured out.
Dana does job costing At the endof every project, we have the
estimated revenue per hour oneverything that's sold for the year.
So we already know that we're aboveaverage on every project that we've sold.
(28:01):
And then we do a job costing, andthen we get the actual revenue
per hour after we're finished.
gotcha.
And so that is somethingeverybody's aware of.
Every single person in our company knowswhat the revenue per hour is on the
projects that they're working, the type ofwork they're doing when they're going out.
And everybody's trying to beat theirtime because we know if we get the job
(28:22):
done ahead of, ahead of schedule, itwill skyrocket that revenue per hour.
Yeah.
in conjunction with our profit sharing,
Yeah.
profit sharing bonuses, that isreally where the, the, the bulk
of our profit comes through.
Is, is through beating our, our estimates.
And that goes back tothe team every month.
(28:43):
And that's fantastic.
And so your team has boughtin the revenue per hour.
Was there a second part to this revenueper hour and then something else?
Well, what we also do then do is just,then we look at the same thing with LMN.
The way they have our time app working
is they, everybody sees live howmany hours are in the project.
(29:04):
And they see if it's doable or not.
And it really, people pickup the phone really quick.
Mm-hmm.
Or everybody in the field is like,there's not enough time in this job.
Tell me there's a change order.
Or something's not loaded right.
Into the system.
Mm-hmm.
Because they'll get out of the job andsay, this is, this is not obtainable.
So what, what were you thinking?
Is this scope of work?
Am I looking at this right or wrong?
(29:24):
Mm-hmm.
And it gets the project managers,the salespeople, and the people in
the field, they talk really quickly.
Yeah.
Yeah,
opens up conversations.
It's just, it's so great.
It's, you can have the conversationslike, what's going really
good, what didn't go so well?
So then next time you know howyou need to switch it up for the
next job, the next similar job is
yeah, yeah.
(29:45):
It's a gauge on how you're performing.
There's no other better way.
Right?
And I always coach youall this time you sell.
An hour, you perform an hour.
That's as simple as our landscapebusiness should ever be, but I think
oftentimes we make it very difficultwith, there's 50 shiny objects in
(30:07):
front of us, and really all it comesdown to is selling an hour of work.
Mm-hmm.
Producing an hour of work or less,
and at the end of the game, that'sthe only thing that matters.
Once that's all been done, then, thenthe gross profit and the net profit
and everything else kind of follows.
(30:28):
But I think a lot of times westart on just gimme the gross
profit, but gross profits justsuch a massive thing to follow.
Right.
And I feel like almost crew memberscan't understand what that is.
Mm-hmm.
And.
understand is the crew appthat says, here's your budget,
here's what you gotta go do.
Right.
And they get to see that live.
(30:49):
Yeah, I think gross profit is a, it'sa number that bankers like to see.
I don't think it's a practicalnumber for the field.
Or even myself for that matter.
I don't pay any attentionto the gross profit
you share gross profit at one time?
To the team?
Okay.
No, so it was.
And income for bonus.
Yeah,
(31:09):
You know, like, and
that's okay.
I think a lot of companies do thatwhen they say share the numbers
and all the, the knowledge, right?
I think that's one step.
But over the last few years I'vereally sort of realized that's not
the right one and, and the revenueper hour and or also the budget versus
actual, I call it, are probably thetwo most important things that they can
(31:32):
really have an impact on budget versusactual on labor materials and subs.
And when you understand that.
The team can really makea difference, good or bad.
And so tell me about, real quick, tell meabout how you got buy-in from the team.
Is it just consistency?
Is it an education piece?
(31:53):
Is it training?
Is it never let up on using the software,the crew budget and the app and all that?
Or, or something different?
I think our biggest buy-inis our bonus programs.
So once they knew they can controltheir income and have a direct impact,
(32:16):
I think our bonus systems worked.
We keep adding some things to it andchanging it and making it better.
So we have a monthly profit sharingwhere 15% of our profit goes
back to the crew every month, andthat has a significant impact.
(32:36):
We saw our production skyrocketand things really improve.
On that one.
Last year, we rolled out someindividual based score not scorecards,
but individual ba, individualbased bonuses based on performance.
And this year we made improvementsto that as a balance scorecard.
(32:58):
We picked up in the lean landscaperusing some of those balance scorecards.
And made improvements to our,our individual stuff too.
So now people know whatwinning looks like.
Mm-hmm.
And how they can and, andreally what's important.
What, what, what do they see, whatwe think is important to their
success, and they can have a, apositive impact on their own lives.
(33:21):
Yep.
And then if, if somebody doesn'tunderstand necessarily what a number
means, or like, how does that work?
They're really good about askingquestions to get a better, better
understanding, which is so great to see.
Yeah.
it's really been fun.
Yeah, it's, it's not an easy task,but I will tell you, everyone will
understand if I've got a hundred hours,I gotta get it in a hundred hours.
(33:46):
Mm-hmm.
The countdown starts now, right?
Everyone will understand thatfrom any level, no matter that,
and what, and I think it all startsfrom you two when there's buy-in.
And if you two are setting thebar at a certain height and said,
this is what we gotta do, there'sreally no questions about it, we
gotta enroll out this to the team.
(34:07):
And if you're consistent and you'readamant about it, then it trickles
all the way down to every singlelevel in the entire organization.
That's good.
Yep.
Gosh, so much stuff to talk about.
The, the, you guys have got alot of great things going on.
Sort of like any one thing that'sthe success at MSC Talk about, let's,
(34:28):
I'm gonna go ahead and answer this.
For you, it's the people.
Talk about the people on your team.
We've talked about systems, wetalked about really amazing projects.
We talked about how Tom had acar and he was, you know, pushing
a mower and putting saw in.
But I wanna talk about the teamand what, what that means to you.
Is there any investments that you put in?
there any coaching ormentorship or training or what?
(34:51):
What does MSC do now?
We're a little bit of a sink or swimcompany, and we're trying to change that.
So we've been a I think we used towear the badge of honor 20 years ago.
As in the grit would show up and thatwould be kind of the differentiation.
There wasn't a lot of training.
It was basically here's, goout there and make money.
(35:13):
And I can see that.
And then the job soups used to screamat us 20 years ago and there's just
a lot of yelling, you know, whenwe first got into the business and
that was kind of the Cowboy Way era.
That's dying.
I mean, that nobody really wants towork for that kind of an organization.
It is
It's, it's just that, that's, it's,it's not like we can't sit there and
(35:36):
talk romantically about the past.
right?
But there's some great memories.
But again, we probably lost some reallygood people due to that kind of behavior.
And so
this is the learning curve, Tom, right?
So no one's gonna be perfect.
That's what I like about this.
So we've got some work to do.
yeah.
what's MSC sort of realizingthat we need to do instead of
(35:58):
to get it outta the cowboy area?
What, what are, what are some of ourgoals or what are some things that
we need to get done here at MSC?
One thing that we're workingon is developing SOPs.
Okay.
We're very lacking in SOPs.
I mean, we have a couple, butwe're working, working hard to get
everybody involved on, on that.
Bringing in people for education.
That's really been helpful.
(36:19):
We all, we've been pretty good about doinglike our local education, but we've been
finding other workshops and involvingour team on that, so then they can get
a picture of what we're seeing as well.
We're just not going back andsaying, Hey, everybody, this
was a, it was a great two days.
You know, they're actually therewith us, which has been valuable.
So then they can go back and say,yeah, it is, it is a pretty neat thing.
(36:42):
What, you know, what we're learning.
Yeah.
Well it does say a lot for you two.
I know Tom was giving me sort ofthe oh crap moment when I said
people, but you've had people onyour team for a very long, long time,
so you're doing something right.
And I would, I wouldsay, Tom, I would say.
The answer to that question isprobably like your relationship,
(37:05):
Sorry.
right?
How we started off with it, with,with this show was, yeah, you got your
client and you got your mentors andfriends and you keep it going and your
vendors, but more importantly, Tom,I think you carry that relationship.
I just showed an example about the EugeneDuck at the end of the day and you, you
randomly send text messages or randomlythat quick phone call checking in.
(37:29):
like, I'm blown away.
So I know you're running a businessand you're the owner, but talk about a
relationship with everyone on your team.
I bet you do.
Yeah, we have great, absolutelygreat people that work with us.
They've been with us a long time andin most everybody that works with us,
we knew before they worked with usfor a period of a decade or better.
(37:53):
So, I mean, it's, it's, most ofthese people we've been around
for 20 plus years, and that'skind of what makes it fun.
It, you know, it's, it's hard tobring outsiders in to our team
just because it is a group that hasknown each other for so long and,
and you know, we can kind ofread each other's binds and.
But si similar to a family, you can geton each other's nerves at points too.
(38:18):
So, I mean, we have to be careful.
We don't really considerourselves a family, but, you
know but we call ourselves oneof the greatest teams out there.
Yeah.
And that's really something thatwe're consistently and, and team
members change from time to time.
Sometimes somebody wants to go be part ofa different team and, and we still remain
friends with them after the fact too.
(38:38):
So, I mean, this is a big thing.
The people are, are really whatmake this worth, worth doing.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
See them grow and develop.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would say yeah, the people, I mean,it is so huge and I know I personally
do not, and do not like titles.
I just wish we could justthrow 'em out the door.
I understand like as far aslike, you know, people outside
(38:59):
of MSC, they need to know that.
Some people get hung up on titles, youknow, and it's a, a de it doesn't help
anybody, you know, and it's like at Iat our company, it's like everybody's
willing to jump in when needed.
It's not that nobody's toogood to do whatever it may be.
Right.
I think that's reallyimportant with the teamwork.
(39:22):
I love that.
Let's just put our titlesand our egos to the side and
let's just rock.
At the end of the day, sometimes Danahas to just get up there and roll up her
sleeves because there's a massive deadlineand it's rained for three weeks straight.
That doesn't really matter to Dana.
She's all for it, but like the jobwon't get done if I just, you know,
(39:45):
do something like that to help theteam, or something's happened or
someone left, someone got sick, like.
Just call everyone a team member.
I'm all for that, right?
You have a reporting structure, butwe can call everyone a team member.
And I feel like that's, that'smore powerful than anything else.
Hundred percent agree.
What's the future of MSC?
Oh, we're gonna continue to row the boat.
(40:07):
Row?
The boat.
Row The boat.
Yep.
Get more efficient.
Dial in our SOPs, doing oursystems and that sort of thing.
You guys have grown a lot over thelast, year and a half that I've met you,
you both it's, it's been fun to see.
Tom, I've gotta ask a questionand I'm gonna ask Dana to, to
wrap it up, but what's wordsof wisdom from the great Tom?
(40:30):
Grow?
Anyone out there listening?
Give us, give us, give us the,
yeah.
us the piece that you're like, wow,
Well, I don't know if it's a wowor anything, but I still have a
couple, couple of pieces of advicefor anybody that's in the business,
in the industry for a long time.
I certainly wholeheartedly believeyou need to be in your local
(40:55):
at least at your local level,participating in your a nonprofit.
Minnesota's the MinnesotaNursery Landscape Professionals.
We also are in the MinnesotaParks and Sports Turf Association.
Our local associations.
We have great friends and networkin there, and that has been a
wonderful support group locally,nationally, and now we're starting
to hang out with more Canadians.
(41:18):
They're coming around.
But we started hanging around with thethe masterminds, the LMN Masterminds.
We started going to grow events.
Yep.
We're with the ACE Peer groups.
That's great coaching.
I think the piece for the coaching is,is we're about to be out coached at MSC.
(41:38):
So we, I, I kind of tell our team thatthis is my plug, my shameless plug
for Ace is the fact that when you're amillion dollar a year company, you can
coach a ninth grade BA basketball team.
You get to two to 3 million, it's likeyou're at coaching at a high school
level, you're at five to 10 million.
You gotta start doingcollege ball level coaching.
(42:01):
You get yourself to 20, 25 million.
Very few people get there andvery few coaches can handle
that pro level organizations.
So if you're not getting yourself coachedup to be at those, those levels, I think
you're just gonna get out coached notonly by your staff, your customers.
And I think that's where the Ace peergroup stuff it, because it's, it's, it's
(42:24):
giving you a support group and a network.
So that's my last minute advice for them.
And then one of my favorite pieceof advice that I ever got in my
life is we were, I think we were 18and we had a friend his father who
was in the business, and we askedhim what the secret to success was.
And he smiled and laughedat us and he goes, boys, you
just have to work half days.
(42:44):
That's all you need to do.
And we were all sitting there likesweet, you know, just like our friend's
dad, he only works half days and helaughed as he walked outta the room.
He goes, it doesn'tmatter which 12 you work.
And we all just
that we're gonna getsmoked our whole life.
So
Oh man, that is gonna settle well with me.
yeah
so
(43:04):
like, wow.
Half day.
Interesting.
How do I do that?
half days.
So
that's a secret to success andwe've been living it ever since.
So.
We work a lot of half days.
half days.
Lots of half days.
Half days.
any words of wisdom?
Yeah, I definitely agreewith what Tom said.
And then I would say beingwe're a husband, wife team,
how do we navigate that?
We get a lot of questions like,how do you guys even work together?
(43:26):
Like,
really?
Like how does that even work?
And so I think through theyears we've really been able to
find, tune each other's roles.
Not step on each other's toes, whichhas been really huge and definitely
helped our business in many ways.
Yeah.
also trying to keep shop talk to a minimumafter dinner, which can be a challenge,
(43:47):
Yeah.
that we have three three boys thatare running their own businesses.
So they wanna, you know, they want totalk about their businesses as well.
So sometimes I feel like all we do istalk about like either our work or the
boys work or whatnot, but I'm like, wehave to have something else to talk about,
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Maybe less about MSC, but listeningto all the, the three boys in
their, their young careers taking
(44:09):
off in their own business.
That, that's fascinating to watch.
I've been.
Watching one of 'em on LinkedIn intensely.
He is a fascinating person.
Shout out to Adam
and and, his business.
It's been great.
Wow.
So much good stuff to talk about.
I just, you know, thank Tom andDana that we ran into each other
(44:32):
in that hotel room in Orlando.
I, I feel like
We both are.
What's that?
how?
Yeah, you, you both are great clients,but more importantly just great friends
and, and good to have some, some beverageswith, and celebrate and share each
(44:52):
other's, you know, words of wisdom andunderstanding where we all come from,
from our backgrounds, that sort of thing.
My, my dad is.
His name's Tom.
He's, he passed seven years ago andI feel like Tom Grow is almost like
a little father figure to me a little
bit.
And it's, his name was TomCole and you're Tom Grow.
I mean, it's, it's pretty, alot of similar stuff and so
(45:13):
it's good to have you both.
And, and, but Farland Sanford, mostimportantly in my life, it's been in
such an amazing thing to have you both.
A lot.
I've learned a ton.
And so give, give them a shoutout Minnesota Sawing Company.
Unbelievable company.
Go follow 'em on social media.
They've got some unbelievable videos andpictures their, their great equipment
(45:36):
and their team and Dana out there runningall the equipment, telling all the, the,
the Toms to this is how we do it, women,
that's
Women wise.
So, anyways.
Thank you so much for being on the show.
It's been a pleasureand we'll see you soon.
Thanks Tommy.
Thank you.
Ready to take the next step?
(45:57):
Download our free Profitability Scorecardto quickly create your own baseline
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Just go to McFarlinStanford.com/scorecardto get yours today To learn more about
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our website at McFarlinStanford.comAnd don't forget to follow us on
(46:20):
LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.
See you next time on the Roots of Success.
The Roots of Success podcast isfor the landscape professional
who's looking to up their game.
We've got a brain trust of experts tohelp you nurture the roots of a successful
business and grow to the next level.
This is The Roots of Success.
Welcome to Roots of Success Podcast,and I'm your host Tommy Cole.
(00:21):
And we have two amazing guests,my good friends and clients Mr.
Tom Grow and Miss Dana grow.
How are you doing?
We are doing great today.
Thanks for inviting us onto your podcast.
Yep.
Tom, Tom, you, you have the floor now.
(00:41):
How are you doing?
It's good.
I'm trying to match yourenergy, so we'll see how we do.
Yeah.
This is all, this is gonna be a good one.
Tom and Dana come from thegreat state of Minnesota.
Did I say that right?
Yeah, you said it right.
They're a Minnesota sodding companyup there in the north, and they
(01:01):
have an absolutely amazing businessthat they've been working on since.
Early nineties.
And it's a very unique business.
Not a lot of like planting trees andbuilding fire features and pools.
This is a very unique niche in themarket, and this is what I love about it.
(01:22):
So what, why don't, withoutgetting too much details, Tom, I
know you're just itching to sayhow this company got started.
What is MSE all about?
Give us a, give us the lowdown.
Oh, MSC was a startedwhen I was 15 years old.
My mom would pick up my workers withher Nissan Sentra and we'd pick 'em all
(01:43):
up, my classmates and drop us off at ourjobs that I would ride my bike to sell.
And we would get the sodprojects in the developments
outside of Minneapolis St. Paul.
And so that's how itkind of started in 1991.
And I had a lawn mowingbusiness, door-to-door lawn
mowing type stuff as well.
And every time I needed to make alittle extra money, we'd have to
(02:05):
out a yard so that I started saying,well, why are we mowing grass if
we could just keep sodding yards?
And, and that's how we, that'spretty much how we started and
ended our lawn mowing career.
Just focus on so, andinstalling grass on yards.
Sodding and installing grass.
That's it.
And so that got started at, atthe ripe old age of 15, but.
(02:29):
You carried it on.
I mean, I don't know manycompanies that really specialize
in just saw installation.
Is that something that youlike, got really excited about?
Or, or your clients took you thereand you kind of followed them?
How, how did that really start the niche?
(02:49):
Well, the niche really startedas first it fed a couple things.
I'm kind of instant gratification,
so you can instantly feel youreffect at the end of a job.
And so a landscape projectscan go on for months.
Until the grass is down, nobody bringsa camera out until the grass is down.
And I think kind of that'show it feeds my, my inner why
(03:11):
of the instant gratification.
And it's pretty fun to, to be thereright at the end of the project.
We, we, we look like the heroes,even though everybody else does all
the hard work before we get there.
So.
yeah, yeah.
That's it is instant.
When you put saw down, it is like.
So satisfying to go from somethingthat's just dirt or bad side
(03:32):
to something that's so perfect.
And you just wanna, like, so when you doa saw job, you just wanna like lay on it
like a brand new carpet in your house.
Yeah.
Well, I don't really necessarilylay on it, but it is fun to run
through the sprinklers if it's hot.
Sounds good.
So years go by, right?
You might have probably gotten acouple pickup trucks, a few employees.
(03:54):
Things are rolling.
Take us through that mid partof, of trying to figure out a
business and how it was going.
I'm sure everything wasperfect and you had no issues.
No, that wasn't necessarily true.
Went to the University of Minnesotastudied horticulture and turf
emphasis in turf management.
And then got outta schooland that's where I met Dana.
(04:17):
Was at the church.
The church school atUniversity of Minnesota.
And then upon leaving there we both spentthree years working for a large landscape
contractor here in Minneapolis, St.
Paul, and still doing thesod and seed work for them.
Good.
Brought some of our workersover to that company.
And that's really where we met almostall the people we work with today.
(04:38):
And it's, they're still in our networkand a lot of 'em work with us at MSC.
As well as some of our customers as wellare have come out of that experience.
So we spent three years each ina really large landscape company.
They were part of the landcare rollup,TrueGreen, Landcare, rollup, and
eventually bought out by Valley Crest,
Yeah.
(04:58):
Type organization.
And just really, that was just kindof a fun, fun era to be part of.
And we've been kind of chasingthat feeling ever since
to building something great and.
And for our workers and, and our,our friends in the business, so.
Yeah.
So speaking of meeting Dana and, andjoining in forces, Dana, did you tell
(05:21):
me about the early days of workingwith your husband As far as like
who does what, who's on first andwho's on second, who's on third base?
And this sort of, let's starta business after we've been
working with a national provider.
Yeah, that was, it was really agreat experience working for a
large landscape company in the TwinCities, and that's really where
(05:41):
we learned the commercial market.
And the commercial market is so muchdifferent than the residential market.
And through the experience of workingfor the, for that company for three
years, that's when we decided that wewanted to focus on commercial work.
It's just a differentpace, different customer.
And so upon leaving there, wewent back and started running
Minnesota Sodding company full-time.
(06:04):
And we did not by any meanshave any systems together.
So we were definitely chaotic back thenand it was pretty much all hands on deck.
So everybody, we didn't really have aseparation of duties quite, quite yet.
Then,
okay.
it was, it was a little roughgoing there for a while.
Yeah, it's a little rough, but talkabout, all over your website and
(06:26):
all of your social media, Dana isheavily involved, whether it be
operations, the financials and things.
What, what, what gets you out there inthe field to experience all of that?
There's gotta be a lotof good, juicy stuff.
Let me back up just one, one more.
I wanna back up and also commendand recommend if, if you are young.
(06:51):
I love getting experience at a nationallevel or a large company at a college
or at a high school at some point,because typically those companies
have some systems of some sort, right?
They've gotten large for, fora reason, but you can learn on
their dime a little bit, right?
And, and take a few years.
And my recommendation is spend three tofive years learning everything you can.
(07:14):
That's a very good knowledge base.
There's systems, there'ssoftware, there's SOPs type stuff.
Generally speaking at that level.
And then if you wanna branchoff at that time, go forward.
So talk about, talk aboutyour experience out there.
I love seeing Dana out in the field.
I mean, there's some fun, there's somefunny videos and pictures of you wearing.
(07:37):
I'll call 'em Beanie Hats.
You may call 'em somethingdifferent up north, but out there
in the field and just grinding.
What do the field peoplesay about all that?
No.
When I get the opportunity to workin the field, that's always one
of my favorite days of the season.
I was actually just working onthe, with the crew on Monday.
It wasn't very fun.
The, that weather was really bad, butno, we all have fun together and we
(08:02):
just always make it a good day and.
I think, you know, they don'talways, like, they don't ask
like, why is she out here?
You know, it's, it's just we're,we work hard to be one big team
and we really strive to make ourteam to build our bench wide.
So a lot of us are able todo a lot of different things.
It's not just like, I don't have tostay in the office 'cause I'm not
(08:22):
able to run the equipment and whatnot.
I can get, you know, get out thereand get things done as well in the
Yeah.
Yeah.
the team.
Well you just gotta make sureTom is behaving out in the field.
That's probably your mostobservation in the field.
Just making sure he is doingwhat he's supposed to be doing.
Right.
Not,
Right.
playing.
Right.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, He doesn't,he doesn't like to miss out.
(08:44):
I was on the same job, butthey put me in the excavator,
so I couldn't talk to anybody.
Some distance.
Yeah.
Put me in a cabin, an excavator.
Everybody stayed 10
The cab and we, we'lllock it from the outside.
Yeah.
You just keep digging.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So talk about msc.
So I, our audience iswondering like, what is this?
Okay.
It's not just a so install company.
(09:05):
It's not like you're getting apallet of square and, and ham places.
Go check these people out.
Unbelievable install.
So tell me about whatspecifically you guys do.
Well, I guess we, we, we havea couple of different areas.
So we have what we consider our newconstruction, which is basically
large office warehouse type projects.
(09:27):
New construction.
We also have a athletic fieldconstruction division where we, we
grade and build pro level ball fieldsas well as municipal and high schools.
And even little league, we builta t-ball field and or not t-ball
wiffle ball field, which is way cool.
So we built a pro level wiffle ballfield in South Dakota for a small
(09:50):
town, and it's one of the coolestprojects we've ever been part of.
Wow.
So a shout out to them in South Dakota.
But yeah, we travel we do some workout in Phoenix as far south as Kansas
City, far east as dent Detroit.
We've done work all over thenation with our ball field stuff.
(10:11):
And then we do something that wecall maintenance, but no mowers.
So our maintenance, no mowers is basicallyspraying weeds, fertilizing top dressing,
slit seating, and the renovation work.
Ball fields as well.
So that's another piece ofour business that, that we do.
But yeah, we, we don't own anylawnmowers and and we do have
a prairie division as well.
(10:32):
Most of our commercial projects now haveprairie and native seeding their sites,
and so we have that we install prairiesand then we also maintain them as well
Wow.
Fascinating.
So tell me about if you're, you're biddingwork outside of the town that you live in.
How does that happen?
(10:53):
And I want our audience tounderstand like what, what, how.
There's all, and I, I know some ofthis, it's per diem, travel, hotel, all
these things that you have to include,like tell us that learning experience that
you had to figure out and then also bid.
well one of the hardest challengesis the fact that we've had
(11:14):
targets that we've done that arefour or five hour drives away.
Yet we didn't get the ones on eitherside of our town that we live in.
So,
Wow.
So we'll, we'll, we'll do targets allover the us but somehow the ones that
are only five miles from our shop, wedon't win the bins on those, but put
people in a hotel with per diems andthey'll, then, they'll wanna hire us.
So
Don't quite understand allthe ins and outs of why we get
(11:35):
certain jobs that we don't.
But almost all of our work thatwe get is relationship based.
It's a trust, trusted relationshipthat we have with the contractors.
You know, either the general contractorsand or the landscape professionals
that we work with and partner with.
So almost all of our work isa partnership type quoting
(11:59):
and getting.
Yeah, that's good.
Jobs are really interesting.
A lot of times it's quick turnaround.
We had our well my most memorable job thatwas an out of town job for an athletic
field was we got a call like late morningand they said the current contractor's
not able to fulfill the project andso will you guys be able to come and
(12:21):
help us out and finish the project?
So we literally were on theroad By what, two or three?
Yeah, two or three in after, on our way.
Honor way to Kansas City andwe were working the next day.
yeah.
wow.
But you know, as a company, wedon't like to say no to work.
We
Yeah.
figure out how to make it happen.
So that was, that was quite the marathon,
If it's your client, right it, you're
gonna jump, jump on and go.
(12:43):
And I think that's the thrill thatboth of you love is the thrill
of this sort of issue or thisthing that we need to accomplish.
And I feel like you get the team and themorale and the equipment all together.
It's almost like having a bigfootball or baseball event
that you have to prepare for.
I think you two love that versus the.
(13:03):
Every single day.
It's a like kind of repeatevery day type deal.
And that's no easy task because there'sa lot of planning involved along the way.
Talk about one of my most favoriteprojects that you guys got involved
in that also had to, it's, it'sit your, in your state, talk about
the Minnesota Twins target fieldand how you got that contract.
(13:29):
And then I think youwere selected to be the.
Labor force, right?
Labor behind, all behindthat entire project.
Talk about that for a bit.
Well, we're gonna probably ruffle afew feathers with the story, but the
start, the early, early part of it isthat I had heard that in order to bid
on the target ball field construction,you had to be in a a pre-bid meeting.
That hap took place a year beforethe work was scheduled to go.
(13:53):
Even though we weren't qualified to buildthe field, I still got myself in the room.
Everybody was in the room and you had tosign in and there was a piece of paper
that went around the room with everyone'sphone number and email and name on it.
And after the meeting, I went upto the secretary and I asked if she
could make a photocopy of that list.
And I called everybody on that list andsaw and asked who was gonna bid on that
(14:15):
and asked that we would be their partners.
So that's really how we entered intothe athletic field world, was just
us sitting in a meeting and you know,basically like knocking on doors.
So door knocking as I started that in thenineties on my bike with door hangers.
That's basically what we did toget the into the Minnesota Ball.
(14:37):
They're brand new Target Field Stadium.
The other piece that reallyworked out well with us is that
we have a great relationship.
We are a union contractorand we are by choice.
And we absolutely love our partnershipwith our local, local 5 63.
And, but what the it is istypically in the sports turf
world, it's, it's traveling.
(14:59):
Companies will travel from out infields Incorporated out of Atlanta,
Georgia was awarded the contract.
They awarded the sod installation togo to Grass Turf Farms in Colorado.
And basically our union blockedboth of them from being able
to bring their labor in.
They said you have tohire Minnesota Labor.
But we had great relationshipwith our union and they said,
(15:21):
you'll have a great partner ifyou work with MSC to do the work.
And so that's where our partnershipsformed and those things the, the com,
both companies non-union companiescoming in the town, we ended up
following them all over the country.
After the Minnesota Twins.
They, they're like, thisis a, a great experience.
And that's really what kindof kicked off and started our,
(15:44):
our career in sports turf.
Yeah.
Relationships,relationships, relationships.
Tom Dana, you two are probablysome of the best I've ever seen.
Maintain that from a work standpointand a and a personal standpoint.
Why are you two so good at this?
(16:04):
I think I'm, this is kind of fun.
I think you have to really respectwho brought you to the dance.
I think both in personal and at work,I, I, we find it interesting at work is
so many people will chase once they getin and they'll try to box somebody out.
And that creates a trustissue and fear of somebody
introducing you to their customer,
(16:25):
thinking that you'regonna try to take 'em.
And we have spent our entire careerrespecting who brought us to the
dance and who brought us to the table,and we protect that relationship.
Highly.
And I just, I, I preach that toour workers and our, our family
and our kids who are startingtheir own businesses as well.
(16:45):
And we just like, youreally have to protect those
relationships and your reputation
Yeah.
definitely.
Dana, what, what, what doyou, what do you have to say?
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely importantto protect your relationships, not
only with your customers, but also withyour vendors, because your vendors.
Are the ones that are ultimatelypart of the success of you getting
your job done on time as well.
(17:06):
So there, I mean, sometimes Idon't think the vendors get enough
credit for what they do either.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's not about, this is how wea lot of times treat our vendors.
Hey, Bob, and I need to get a price.
I need a price right now.
What can you best do for me?
Or thanks, click bye.
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
That happens, especiallyin the commercial world.
I've been a general contractor.
(17:27):
I've been in dirt construction fora long time and that's what that is.
And it should not be that.
It should be, it shouldbe a two-way relationship.
I'm gonna put in everything I gotand it's more about than just picking
up the phone, getting gimme a price.
'cause I've
been on that side of thefence and it's rough.
It is
cutthroat, it's nasty, it's ugly.
(17:48):
People yell and scream.
About the bottom and you guys aren'ta part of that, and it's proof
that relationship and nice peoplewin in commercial construction.
It can be done at the end of theday and you guys have proven it.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell a little story
and Tom's gonna love this.
Tom's probably like, ohmy gosh, what did I do
when we met?
(18:10):
We met in Orlando.
You'll remember this storyrandomly at an element conference.
Super fun.
Lots of people, good energy.
And for some reason Tom stood out.
I don't have any idea why Tom stood out.
Maybe the red shirt or maybejust his awesome personality and
relationship building skills.
(18:32):
For whatever reason, my dad's name wasTom, so maybe there was a connection there
and I was trying to get you guys involvedin h peer groups and we're talking
about traveling and all this thing and.
Where are you going next?
I feel like this was November-ish,maybe October, November.
I can't remember.
Maybe
December.
yeah, it was winter.
(18:53):
so we're talking and hesays, when's your next trip?
And I said, I'm going towhere am I, Eugene, Oregon.
Right.
I was going to Eugene, Oregon.
And he said, man, that must be fun.
That's great.
And you made me a challenge.
Right.
A challenge was great.
You're going to Eugene.
And I told you about thehotel I was staying at.
It's cool.
(19:14):
Like a college type hotel and calledthe graduate and I told you all
about it and I said, there's thisfamous duck there when you walk in.
It's got Nike all over forthe University of Oregon.
And he said, sounds good.
I need you to go take a picture in frontof that duck and if you can do that,
I'll jump into the peer groups and I.Bet's on and you didn't know that my
(19:36):
number two strength is competition.
So when Tom said, I bet you they see ifyou can do that and see what happens.
Well, fast forward, right?
A few months go by and my trip getscompletely canceled and I'm free.
I feel like the only thing thatI had to do was get a picture in
front of the duck in Eugene, Oregon.
(19:58):
Yeah, I had one job.
I don't care about how the event oneand the meeting went, it literally
was get a picture in front of the dockand I was kind of freaking out that
I wasn't gonna get my opportunity.
And so I had to like text Tom and go,man, we, we got snowed in and, and we
can't get there, that it's iced over.
And he goes.
I still need a picture of the duck man.
I just what I need.
(20:20):
So a few months later we, we wereable to rebook the trip and I
got my official picture in frontof the duck, sent it to Tom.
You might have forgotten about it.
I don't know at that point.
But at that point I feel like therewas a bond, there was a trust.
And since then, honestly, Tomhas been a really good, genuine
(20:40):
friend of mine along the way.
And it's been awesome to see.
Him grow and develop and have funand, and let loose and, and all that.
So I, I, it's, it's kind of a funnystory about, I think he challenged
me a little bit and said if you cango do this, then I feel like our
relationship was was, was in the hands,
(21:01):
Anybody can coach,
right?
There's a lot of coaches in the worldthat if there's, how many coaches are
gonna go take a selfie with the duck?
So it's, it's kind of,
That, that would be me.
That would
we,
Oregon Ducks.
There you go.
Um,
to put our vendors through the pacesand that's just to build trust and to
see if they're gonna follow through.
(21:21):
it's like a little scavenger hunt,you know, a little bit of a test to
see, see what you can build there.
talk about software.
All right.
Let, let's get a little,little, little juicy here.
You guys have been involved in a, inin LMM for a while, I believe, but
really got hot and heavy here recently,maybe in the last couple years.
It felt like you kind of doubled downon it more talk about, give our audience
(21:46):
some advice or some awareness ofwhat that meant to you and your team.
Maybe it was a bit tricky at firston getting buy-in from the team.
It might have been buy-infrom your own self.
Talk about that a little bit.
So I think we joined LMN right aroundlike 2013 ish, give or take a year.
(22:07):
And so we were at to the point where weknew it just couldn't be the two of us
anymore, so we needed to bring on morepeople and there was no way we'd be
able to successfully bring on anybodywithout having some sort of program.
To be able to start streamlining MSC.
Yeah.
Which we had no systems.
I mean it was like, I, well I referto 'em as our Cal Cowboy area era.
(22:30):
It was basically like, you know,look at a job and you'd be like,
oh, that looks like a $3,000 job.
There was no like,serious thought behind it.
I mean, not always, but a lot of thetimes it would be just off the cuff,
like, oh, it looks like it's, you know,this many dollars kind, kind of a thing.
And so then we started searching around.
We actually hired somebody forI think probably about a year.
(22:52):
And they were working on buildingus a program in an internal program.
And then I think it waslike over the winter we just
started doing Google searches.
And Tom found LMN throughjust doing a Google search.
And so then we started messingaround or researching their budget.
Started working with theirbudget, did some estimating.
(23:14):
Then pretty much from then on iswhen we started using LMN, but
it really centralized MSC, all ofour information was in one spot.
We were able to confidently startbidding work and, you know, and winning
it and not having to think like,oh, are we gonna be behind ahead?
And and that's also the timethat we really started digging
(23:37):
into learning our numbers.
Okay.
We got into the business becausewe love, you know, we love
turf, we love landscaping.
Right?
And I know for me personally, I, I wasn'tthinking long term as a business owner.
It was all about just doing the fun work.
And I mean, honestly, our businesswas struggling before LMN and so that
(23:57):
just really helped turn us around.
So along with LMN really tuning intoLMN, we also hired a business consultant.
Between the two of them, it wasa total game changer for us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So.
What has it game changer for you guys?
Is it, is it, can you gimmespecifics on like, production?
(24:20):
Tom?
Maybe you're the person.
Like, tell me what, what was the gamechanger in operations or production like?
Is there a system, is there, isthere data that you guys use?
That said how, always ask thequestion how we know we're winning.
Right?
And you probably know
Mm,
As before it was like.
You know, if you're winning,if hopefully the client likes
(24:40):
it and you hit the deadline,
mm-hmm.
there's some missing parts to that, right?
Yes.
So there's a couple pieces I'm gonnasideline just for ever so second, but
Mike Laski was our first coach and heintroduced me a KPI that I did not have,
that we didn't have of revenue per hour.
(25:02):
Yeah.
As a metric on how to judge howsuccessful a day was a project
was as our revenue per hour.
And when revenue per hour wasintroduced, the light bulb went off.
And it was similar to, I read Good thebook, good to Great around the same era,
and Walgreens was the profit per customerand CVS or Snyder's, I think at the time
(25:26):
or whatever the company their competitorwas, was their profit per square foot.
And so those guys were battling itout in the pharmaceutical, you know,
selling pharmaceuticals to people.
And Walgreens was building astore on all the best corners, and
Snyder's was off in the corner,you know, on the cheap real estate.
And so all of a sudden havingthe revenue per hour introduced
(25:48):
was a life a game changer.
And then we were able to takethat operationally into, well,
what revenue, what work pays thehighest revenue per hour work?
So that became a judge every year since2012 you know, we've just been watching
our revenue per hour go up every yearand, and every season we take whatever
(26:11):
our average revenue per hour was theprevious year, and we make that the floor.
So everything that we bid thisyear is just above average work,
Next step up.
Yeah.
you know, and we go up another 10bucks an hour for this year, and then
all of a sudden next year, guess whatthe floor is now, this year's average.
So that has been the best operationalthing we do is to recognize, and
(26:31):
we've left some markets, there'ssome things we used to run the heavy,
heavy landscape roll off recyclingprogram where we haul the landscape
bins, they call 'em dumpsters bins.
And we would be recycling landscape wastefor all sorts of landscape contractors
while it, it doesn't pay the revenue perhour like some of our other work does now.
(26:55):
So.
It's too low.
So we've, it's even dictated some ofthe markets that we are in and the
types of services we offer becauseit's just, it can't compete with
some of the other stuff that we do.
So I think the revenue per hour is thebest KPI that was ever introduced to
us, and I have to give all the creditto Mike Laski introducing that to us.
So that's the piece of the software.
(27:16):
That element really hasgiven us that opportunity.
So, so one more quickquestion, Tom, about that.
So, is that watch, like,gimme some context.
Is that a daily thing?
Is it posted?
Are you watching, dothe crews understand it?
Like get a little more tactical,like how you guys, I, I know we've
heard that from the Element softwareand, and that awesome team that.
(27:39):
What that's there currently, just aboutrevenue per hour, but gimme a little more
tactical on that, how you guys use it.
We have it figured out.
Dana does job costing At the endof every project, we have the
estimated revenue per hour oneverything that's sold for the year.
So we already know that we're aboveaverage on every project that we've sold.
(28:01):
And then we do a job costing, andthen we get the actual revenue
per hour after we're finished.
gotcha.
And so that is somethingeverybody's aware of.
Every single person in our company knowswhat the revenue per hour is on the
projects that they're working, the type ofwork they're doing when they're going out.
And everybody's trying to beat theirtime because we know if we get the job
(28:22):
done ahead of, ahead of schedule, itwill skyrocket that revenue per hour.
Yeah.
in conjunction with our profit sharing,
Yeah.
profit sharing bonuses, that isreally where the, the, the bulk
of our profit comes through.
Is, is through beating our, our estimates.
And that goes back tothe team every month.
(28:43):
And that's fantastic.
And so your team has boughtin the revenue per hour.
Was there a second part to this revenueper hour and then something else?
Well, what we also do then do is just,then we look at the same thing with LMN.
The way they have our time app working
is they, everybody sees live howmany hours are in the project.
(29:04):
And they see if it's doable or not.
And it really, people pickup the phone really quick.
Mm-hmm.
Or everybody in the field is like,there's not enough time in this job.
Tell me there's a change order.
Or something's not loaded right.
Into the system.
Mm-hmm.
Because they'll get out of the job andsay, this is, this is not obtainable.
So what, what were you thinking?
Is this scope of work?
Am I looking at this right or wrong?
(29:24):
Mm-hmm.
And it gets the project managers,the salespeople, and the people in
the field, they talk really quickly.
Yeah.
Yeah,
opens up conversations.
It's just, it's so great.
It's, you can have the conversationslike, what's going really
good, what didn't go so well?
So then next time you know howyou need to switch it up for the
next job, the next similar job is
yeah, yeah.
(29:45):
It's a gauge on how you're performing.
There's no other better way.
Right?
And I always coach youall this time you sell.
An hour, you perform an hour.
That's as simple as our landscapebusiness should ever be, but I think
oftentimes we make it very difficultwith, there's 50 shiny objects in
(30:07):
front of us, and really all it comesdown to is selling an hour of work.
Mm-hmm.
Producing an hour of work or less,
and at the end of the game, that'sthe only thing that matters.
Once that's all been done, then, thenthe gross profit and the net profit
and everything else kind of follows.
(30:28):
But I think a lot of times westart on just gimme the gross
profit, but gross profits justsuch a massive thing to follow.
Right.
And I feel like almost crew memberscan't understand what that is.
Mm-hmm.
And.
understand is the crew appthat says, here's your budget,
here's what you gotta go do.
Right.
And they get to see that live.
(30:49):
Yeah, I think gross profit is a, it'sa number that bankers like to see.
I don't think it's a practicalnumber for the field.
Or even myself for that matter.
I don't pay any attentionto the gross profit
you share gross profit at one time?
To the team?
Okay.
No, so it was.
And income for bonus.
Yeah,
(31:09):
You know, like, and
that's okay.
I think a lot of companies do thatwhen they say share the numbers
and all the, the knowledge, right?
I think that's one step.
But over the last few years I'vereally sort of realized that's not
the right one and, and the revenueper hour and or also the budget versus
actual, I call it, are probably thetwo most important things that they can
(31:32):
really have an impact on budget versusactual on labor materials and subs.
And when you understand that.
The team can really makea difference, good or bad.
And so tell me about, real quick, tell meabout how you got buy-in from the team.
Is it just consistency?
Is it an education piece?
(31:53):
Is it training?
Is it never let up on using the software,the crew budget and the app and all that?
Or, or something different?
I think our biggest buy-inis our bonus programs.
So once they knew they can controltheir income and have a direct impact,
(32:16):
I think our bonus systems worked.
We keep adding some things to it andchanging it and making it better.
So we have a monthly profit sharingwhere 15% of our profit goes
back to the crew every month, andthat has a significant impact.
(32:36):
We saw our production skyrocketand things really improve.
On that one.
Last year, we rolled out someindividual based score not scorecards,
but individual ba, individualbased bonuses based on performance.
And this year we made improvementsto that as a balance scorecard.
(32:58):
We picked up in the lean landscaperusing some of those balance scorecards.
And made improvements to our,our individual stuff too.
So now people know whatwinning looks like.
Mm-hmm.
And how they can and, andreally what's important.
What, what, what do they see, whatwe think is important to their
success, and they can have a, apositive impact on their own lives.
(33:21):
Yep.
And then if, if somebody doesn'tunderstand necessarily what a number
means, or like, how does that work?
They're really good about askingquestions to get a better, better
understanding, which is so great to see.
Yeah.
it's really been fun.
Yeah, it's, it's not an easy task,but I will tell you, everyone will
understand if I've got a hundred hours,I gotta get it in a hundred hours.
(33:46):
Mm-hmm.
The countdown starts now, right?
Everyone will understand thatfrom any level, no matter that,
and what, and I think it all startsfrom you two when there's buy-in.
And if you two are setting thebar at a certain height and said,
this is what we gotta do, there'sreally no questions about it, we
gotta enroll out this to the team.
(34:07):
And if you're consistent and you'readamant about it, then it trickles
all the way down to every singlelevel in the entire organization.
That's good.
Yep.
Gosh, so much stuff to talk about.
The, the, you guys have got alot of great things going on.
Sort of like any one thing that'sthe success at MSC Talk about, let's,
(34:28):
I'm gonna go ahead and answer this.
For you, it's the people.
Talk about the people on your team.
We've talked about systems, wetalked about really amazing projects.
We talked about how Tom had acar and he was, you know, pushing
a mower and putting saw in.
But I wanna talk about the teamand what, what that means to you.
Is there any investments that you put in?
there any coaching ormentorship or training or what?
(34:51):
What does MSC do now?
We're a little bit of a sink or swimcompany, and we're trying to change that.
So we've been a I think we used towear the badge of honor 20 years ago.
As in the grit would show up and thatwould be kind of the differentiation.
There wasn't a lot of training.
It was basically here's, goout there and make money.
(35:13):
And I can see that.
And then the job soups used to screamat us 20 years ago and there's just
a lot of yelling, you know, whenwe first got into the business and
that was kind of the Cowboy Way era.
That's dying.
I mean, that nobody really wants towork for that kind of an organization.
It is
It's, it's just that, that's, it's,it's not like we can't sit there and
(35:36):
talk romantically about the past.
right?
But there's some great memories.
But again, we probably lost some reallygood people due to that kind of behavior.
And so
this is the learning curve, Tom, right?
So no one's gonna be perfect.
That's what I like about this.
So we've got some work to do.
yeah.
what's MSC sort of realizingthat we need to do instead of
(35:58):
to get it outta the cowboy area?
What, what are, what are some of ourgoals or what are some things that
we need to get done here at MSC?
One thing that we're workingon is developing SOPs.
Okay.
We're very lacking in SOPs.
I mean, we have a couple, butwe're working, working hard to get
everybody involved on, on that.
Bringing in people for education.
That's really been helpful.
(36:19):
We all, we've been pretty good about doinglike our local education, but we've been
finding other workshops and involvingour team on that, so then they can get
a picture of what we're seeing as well.
We're just not going back andsaying, Hey, everybody, this
was a, it was a great two days.
You know, they're actually therewith us, which has been valuable.
So then they can go back and say,yeah, it is, it is a pretty neat thing.
(36:42):
What, you know, what we're learning.
Yeah.
Well it does say a lot for you two.
I know Tom was giving me sort ofthe oh crap moment when I said
people, but you've had people onyour team for a very long, long time,
so you're doing something right.
And I would, I wouldsay, Tom, I would say.
The answer to that question isprobably like your relationship,
(37:05):
Sorry.
right?
How we started off with it, with,with this show was, yeah, you got your
client and you got your mentors andfriends and you keep it going and your
vendors, but more importantly, Tom,I think you carry that relationship.
I just showed an example about the EugeneDuck at the end of the day and you, you
randomly send text messages or randomlythat quick phone call checking in.
(37:29):
like, I'm blown away.
So I know you're running a businessand you're the owner, but talk about a
relationship with everyone on your team.
I bet you do.
Yeah, we have great, absolutelygreat people that work with us.
They've been with us a long time andin most everybody that works with us,
we knew before they worked with usfor a period of a decade or better.
(37:53):
So, I mean, it's, it's, most ofthese people we've been around
for 20 plus years, and that'skind of what makes it fun.
It, you know, it's, it's hard tobring outsiders in to our team
just because it is a group that hasknown each other for so long and,
and you know, we can kind ofread each other's binds and.
But si similar to a family, you can geton each other's nerves at points too.
(38:18):
So, I mean, we have to be careful.
We don't really considerourselves a family, but, you
know but we call ourselves oneof the greatest teams out there.
Yeah.
And that's really something thatwe're consistently and, and team
members change from time to time.
Sometimes somebody wants to go be part ofa different team and, and we still remain
friends with them after the fact too.
(38:38):
So, I mean, this is a big thing.
The people are, are really whatmake this worth, worth doing.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
See them grow and develop.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would say yeah, the people, I mean,it is so huge and I know I personally
do not, and do not like titles.
I just wish we could justthrow 'em out the door.
I understand like as far aslike, you know, people outside
(38:59):
of MSC, they need to know that.
Some people get hung up on titles, youknow, and it's a, a de it doesn't help
anybody, you know, and it's like at Iat our company, it's like everybody's
willing to jump in when needed.
It's not that nobody's toogood to do whatever it may be.
Right.
I think that's reallyimportant with the teamwork.
(39:22):
I love that.
Let's just put our titlesand our egos to the side and
let's just rock.
At the end of the day, sometimes Danahas to just get up there and roll up her
sleeves because there's a massive deadlineand it's rained for three weeks straight.
That doesn't really matter to Dana.
She's all for it, but like the jobwon't get done if I just, you know,
(39:45):
do something like that to help theteam, or something's happened or
someone left, someone got sick, like.
Just call everyone a team member.
I'm all for that, right?
You have a reporting structure, butwe can call everyone a team member.
And I feel like that's, that'smore powerful than anything else.
Hundred percent agree.
What's the future of MSC?
Oh, we're gonna continue to row the boat.
(40:07):
Row?
The boat.
Row The boat.
Yep.
Get more efficient.
Dial in our SOPs, doing oursystems and that sort of thing.
You guys have grown a lot over thelast, year and a half that I've met you,
you both it's, it's been fun to see.
Tom, I've gotta ask a questionand I'm gonna ask Dana to, to
wrap it up, but what's wordsof wisdom from the great Tom?
(40:30):
Grow?
Anyone out there listening?
Give us, give us, give us the,
yeah.
us the piece that you're like, wow,
Well, I don't know if it's a wowor anything, but I still have a
couple, couple of pieces of advicefor anybody that's in the business,
in the industry for a long time.
I certainly wholeheartedly believeyou need to be in your local
(40:55):
at least at your local level,participating in your a nonprofit.
Minnesota's the MinnesotaNursery Landscape Professionals.
We also are in the MinnesotaParks and Sports Turf Association.
Our local associations.
We have great friends and networkin there, and that has been a
wonderful support group locally,nationally, and now we're starting
to hang out with more Canadians.
(41:18):
They're coming around.
But we started hanging around with thethe masterminds, the LMN Masterminds.
We started going to grow events.
Yep.
We're with the ACE Peer groups.
That's great coaching.
I think the piece for the coaching is,is we're about to be out coached at MSC.
(41:38):
So we, I, I kind of tell our team thatthis is my plug, my shameless plug
for Ace is the fact that when you're amillion dollar a year company, you can
coach a ninth grade BA basketball team.
You get to two to 3 million, it's likeyou're at coaching at a high school
level, you're at five to 10 million.
You gotta start doingcollege ball level coaching.
(42:01):
You get yourself to 20, 25 million.
Very few people get there andvery few coaches can handle
that pro level organizations.
So if you're not getting yourself coachedup to be at those, those levels, I think
you're just gonna get out coached notonly by your staff, your customers.
And I think that's where the Ace peergroup stuff it, because it's, it's, it's
(42:24):
giving you a support group and a network.
So that's my last minute advice for them.
And then one of my favorite pieceof advice that I ever got in my
life is we were, I think we were 18and we had a friend his father who
was in the business, and we askedhim what the secret to success was.
And he smiled and laughedat us and he goes, boys, you
just have to work half days.
(42:44):
That's all you need to do.
And we were all sitting there likesweet, you know, just like our friend's
dad, he only works half days and helaughed as he walked outta the room.
He goes, it doesn'tmatter which 12 you work.
And we all just
that we're gonna getsmoked our whole life.
So
Oh man, that is gonna settle well with me.
yeah
so
(43:04):
like, wow.
Half day.
Interesting.
How do I do that?
half days.
So
that's a secret to success andwe've been living it ever since.
So.
We work a lot of half days.
half days.
Lots of half days.
Half days.
any words of wisdom?
Yeah, I definitely agreewith what Tom said.
And then I would say beingwe're a husband, wife team,
how do we navigate that?
We get a lot of questions like,how do you guys even work together?
(43:26):
Like,
really?
Like how does that even work?
And so I think through theyears we've really been able to
find, tune each other's roles.
Not step on each other's toes, whichhas been really huge and definitely
helped our business in many ways.
Yeah.
also trying to keep shop talk to a minimumafter dinner, which can be a challenge,
(43:47):
Yeah.
that we have three three boys thatare running their own businesses.
So they wanna, you know, they want totalk about their businesses as well.
So sometimes I feel like all we do istalk about like either our work or the
boys work or whatnot, but I'm like, wehave to have something else to talk about,
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Maybe less about MSC, but listeningto all the, the three boys in
their, their young careers taking
(44:09):
off in their own business.
That, that's fascinating to watch.
I've been.
Watching one of 'em on LinkedIn intensely.
He is a fascinating person.
Shout out to Adam
and and, his business.
It's been great.
Wow.
So much good stuff to talk about.
I just, you know, thank Tom andDana that we ran into each other
(44:32):
in that hotel room in Orlando.
I, I feel like
We both are.
What's that?
how?
Yeah, you, you both are great clients,but more importantly just great friends
and, and good to have some, some beverageswith, and celebrate and share each
(44:52):
other's, you know, words of wisdom andunderstanding where we all come from,
from our backgrounds, that sort of thing.
My, my dad is.
His name's Tom.
He's, he passed seven years ago andI feel like Tom Grow is almost like
a little father figure to me a little
bit.
And it's, his name was TomCole and you're Tom Grow.
I mean, it's, it's pretty, alot of similar stuff and so
(45:13):
it's good to have you both.
And, and, but Farland Sanford, mostimportantly in my life, it's been in
such an amazing thing to have you both.
A lot.
I've learned a ton.
And so give, give them a shoutout Minnesota Sawing Company.
Unbelievable company.
Go follow 'em on social media.
They've got some unbelievable videos andpictures their, their great equipment
(45:36):
and their team and Dana out there runningall the equipment, telling all the, the,
the Toms to this is how we do it, women,
that's
Women wise.
So, anyways.
Thank you so much for being on the show.
It's been a pleasureand we'll see you soon.
Thanks Tommy.
Thank you.
Ready to take the next step?
(45:57):
Download our free Profitability Scorecardto quickly create your own baseline
financial assessment and uncover thefastest ways to improve your business.
Just go to McFarlinStanford.com/scorecardto get yours today To learn more about
McFarlin Stanford our best in classpeer groups and other services go to
our website at McFarlinStanford.comAnd don't forget to follow us on
(46:20):
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See you next time on the Roots of Success.
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