December 19, 2024 • 38 mins
Ready to Level Up Your Landscaping Company? Here's the Secret: It’s Not a Degree. Join us on "Roots of Success" as Melissa Blake from Bates Landscaping reveals how hands-on experience and continuous learning can catapult your business ahead of the competition. Host Tommy Cole and Melissa engage in a spirited discussion on the value of fieldwork, the importance of charging for design services, and crafting a bulletproof business development strategy. This episode is packed with practical insights for landscape company owners and executives looking to elevate their business to new heights.
THE BIG IDEA:
Continuous learning ensures success.
KEY MOMENTS:
[00:00] Early Work in horticulture.
[03:04] Loved tree climbing; became a climbing arborist.
[08:28] Manually created custom garden designs for clients.
[10:10] Professional services require compensation for expertise.
[13:34] Understand your ideal customer to set expectations.
[16:34] Uncover customer's needs to tailor solutions.
[22:10] Design phase is a long; thorough, flexible process.
[25:33] Always learn, work smart, be patient, start small.
[26:45] Internship, odd jobs, real-world lessons, degree irrelevant.
[31:55] Spoke truthfully at college, wasn't reinvited.
[33:30] Never stop learning; avoid becoming stagnant.
QUESTIONS WE ANSWER
What are the benefits of pursuing a career in landscaping?
How can hands-on trade skills lead to financial success?
What is the importance of continuous learning in the landscaping industry?
How do landscape designers work with clients to create outdoor spaces?
Why is it important to charge for landscape design services?
What is the role of a landscape designer in transforming outdoor living spaces?
How can using social media like Pinterest assist in landscape design?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The Roots of Success podcast isfor the landscape professional
who's looking to up their game.
We've got a brain trust of experts tohelp you nurture the roots of a successful
business and grow to the next level.
This is The Roots of Success.
Welcome to Roots of Success Podcast,and I'm your host, Tommy Cole.
(00:24):
Once again, we have an awesomeguest that has been begging,
begging to be on this show.
She might be a little nervous, but Iam so thrilled for this young lady.
She is a peer group member and hasbeen for years and one of the most
amazing peer group members and herteam that I've ever seen Graciously
(00:45):
and aggressively taking notes at everysingle meeting absorbing so much content.
I love that Her name is melissa blakeFrom Bates Landscaping in one of our,
it's my second home's Philly go Phillies.
We, we go there at least multipletimes a year with Bates Landscaping.
How are you, Melissa?
(01:06):
I am good Tommy.
I told you I was gonna be likeRicky, Bobby and Talladega
Knight during this whole thing.
Like I don't know where to put my hands.
I don't want to get my hands.
Well, if you're like me, you justkind of wave them all over the place.
Like you're kind of crazy.
Right.
You just don't care of anyways.
That's kind of it's awhole nother deal, right?
Yeah, it's the awkwardness, but I dospeak with my hands as most people
(01:29):
can't see that unless you're in person.
But Melissa, this is such an honor.
I've I've seen you guys for many years.
You and your team has justbeen fascinating to watch
and seeing grow and develop.
It's been great.
So that leads, that leads it to how inthe world did you get in this industry?
You know, landscaping and all that.
(01:50):
And there's one little thing that Ilearned about you a little while back.
You grew up in a concretejungle and had no green space.
So you're like, I've got to goto the parks and you know, and
enjoy the green and the natureand the birds and you name it.
I was like, oh my God, you're destinedto be a landscape designer salesperson.
(02:12):
So tell me more about that.
Well, it's funny that you saythat because I was going to say,
but I'm glad that you remembered.
I yeah, so growing up, I mean,I grew up right outside of
Philadelphia in an area called Delco.
But it was a row home area.
I had an alley and aporch and that was it.
So all concrete never, like.
Had any thought of any green space.
(02:33):
My mom didn't like, do anything like that.
But I've been working my whole life.
I had a paper route like you didand I worked at a grocery store.
So I've always been working.
And when I went into high school, Istill didn't know what I wanted to do.
And so in high school, they hadme choose an elective there.
And I ended up choosinghorticulture as one of my electives.
(02:55):
We had this super cool greenhouse offof my high school and I graduated with
like 850 people in my graduating class.
So like they had all sorts of coolstuff, but I picked horticulture.
They had this greenhouse and hydroponicsand I had this really great teacher
and he was like, the industry is socool, Melissa, you, you would love it.
So I ended up.
(03:16):
Applying to a couple ofdifferent universities.
I ended up at Penn state, whichthey have an amazing program
they do.
They're very regarded asa great program there.
And I loved it.
And during school I took a treeclimbing class and my professor
there was like, did you know you canlike make money at climbing trees?
I was like, no, I had no idea.
You know?
So I ended up getting recruited ata college and worked at a national
(03:40):
tree company for three or four years.
Just as like a climbing arborist.
And plant health care technicianand I that like experience
for me was invaluable.
So I love that.
But, you know, in that timethat I was there, I, like,
really wanted to use my degree.
And so I was doing some freelancingstuff here and there, and when I
(04:01):
was interviewing there as, like,for, like, the arborist position,
I was like, no, I don't want tojust sell tree work my whole life.
I wanted to, like, utilize my degree.
So, I ended up at Bates 10 years ago,and at that time, we were just a small,
you know, company, I mean, we're still asmall company now, but a small company,
and mowing grass, and doing maintenance,like, for residential customers, and
(04:25):
I brought in all my knowledge of planthealth care, and my design knowledge, and
all of this stuff, and careful You know,here we are, you know, 10 years later.
And so yeah, so that's how I got here.
Concrete jungle.
To climbing trees, like yourfamily's probably like, what
is this crazy lady doing?
I
Oh my God.
My mom hated it.
(04:46):
She like hated it.
She was like, Melissa, please,please be careful today.
I'm like, yeah, mom, justgoing in a tulip poplar.
No big deal.
Yeah.
I'm just like kind of a monkey, justjumping around all over the place
and trimming limbs and getting,getting, you know, dirty and all that.
But that's how we learn is literallyjust to get outside and learn.
I mean, that's how I got in the industry.
It was like, I like golfand I like the outdoors.
(05:10):
Like, just get me outsideto do something like that.
That's what I was.
Kind of was headed towardsthe architecture route.
It was like, that kind of sounds boring.
No, no harm.
Anyone don't, don't shoot me now, butlandscape architecture just seemed like
the fit, whether it be horticultureor outdoor design hardscaping
(05:30):
landscape architecture, designworld was just, you know, So unique.
And to this day, when you say,yeah, I'm in the landscape,
they're like, Oh my gosh, youknow, I've got this or this, right?
yeah,
That's great.
So talk about your role at Bates, right?
So you're, you've been there 10 years.
I'm sure it's evolved into every singlething you can imagine, but you've
(05:50):
really narrowed it down into your niche.
And basically you're kind of thedesign sales person for all of Bates.
What is that like foryou guys at the team?
Yeah.
So I had the sales and designdepartment for, like, the
residential design install portion.
So anytime customer wants a new outdoorliving space, kitchen, fire pit, patio,
(06:15):
walkway, whatever the case may be, I getinvolved with that whole process there.
And then I also help with a lot of the.
Business development on thecommercial side and residential side.
Like, if we're looking for a newengineer to partner with for stormwater
management, because that's big wherewe are, then I also help with that too.
(06:36):
So, but obviously, landscape designis my ultimate passion, so I love it.
Yeah, that's great.
It's something so fascinating to me, istaking someone's vision, put it in sort of
a design, whether it be, you know, 2d, 3d,and then put it in the ground and then to
(06:56):
see the transformation is basically like.
A kid in a candy store.
I mean, I'm sure you get giddy andexcited to see the full circle and then
go, Oh my God, that's what we designed.
Like
that's, that's amazing to seethe smile on clients faces.
Oh yeah.
I mean, I was working on, I had acall this morning with a customer
that's getting a pool installed thatwe're a part of and they need us
(07:20):
to help with our outdoor kitchen.
And I was just like walking them throughsomething simple, like light fixtures
that people like, I get all excited about.
I'm like, Oh, do you know I could dothese cool color changing lights for you?
Like how fun would it bewhen the Eagles are playing?
You could turn them green, you know?
So like stuff like that, you know,you get jazzed up because If you're
excited about the process with thecustomer, then they're going to be so
(07:40):
excited, too, you know, so you wantto show that passion to them, which
is like probably my favorite part.
Yeah.
You have unbelievably passion.
It shows.
When you're around and it's kindof contagious because the client
gets a little really excited.
So talk about this little thingcalled charging for design.
I'm sure you didn't in the pastbecause you probably found every
(08:02):
reason why not to charge for your time.
And then talk about that and then whyyou transitioned to charge for design.
Thank you, Melissa, for taking thatopportunity to To do that because
we are valuable in our industry andwe should be charging for our time.
So take me through that wholeprocess with you and your team.
Yeah, so that was something, you know,like, fresh out of school and right,
(08:26):
you know, we're we were small business.
So any opportunity that somebodywanted to give us to, like.
install a walkway for them,do new plantings, you know,
whatever the case may be.
We, we jumped all over itand I would start right away.
And that was, you know, like 10 yearsago, although like the technology was
there, we were too small to obviouslyafford any sort of like software program.
(08:47):
Right.
And so I would do everything by hand.
And so that meant I would go to theirhouse, I would show them the designs.
And if they wanted me to move thatAzalea from the left side foundation
to the right side foundation.
That meant I had to make awhole different design for them.
I couldn't just like move it and, youknow, paste and, you know, cut like you
(09:08):
can on, yeah, the computer and stuff.
But so I was doing that and I, I thinkwe were just so gung ho about doing
designs for customers that we didn'teven think like, oh, they're gonna,
they're gonna take this design and, youknow, they're either gonna hold off or
they're just gonna give it to somebodyelse or whatever the case may be.
I mean.
We were going as far as like, Iwould take people to the nursery
(09:30):
and pick out plants with them.
I would go to like the supplierand I would be like, here's
this great techo block paper.
Like, what do you think about this?
What do you think about that?
And not charging for any of it.
And then we ran into so many timeswhere they would just take my design and
either not do it and just hold on to it.
Or they would have their, you know,Local guy that cuts their grass do it
(09:53):
and we just, like, lost so much timeand over the years, you know, we've
obviously learned that our time is supervaluable, especially as we bring on
other landscape designers and other teammembers on to the team here at dates that.
We have to charge for that time becauseif we're expecting the salesperson or
the designer to, you know, hit a certainnumber of sales, have these certain KPIs,
(10:17):
we can't not be charging for their time.
Otherwise it's just wasted.
And our team's time istoo valuable for that.
right.
You know, it's, it's no differentthan any other industry, right?
Lawyers, doctors, electricians,plumbers, you name it, across
the board, time is being charged.
(10:38):
And then when they, when youdo charges, the client is
highly invested at that point.
You know, they, they bought intoyou, they bought into the design.
You know, you could think at somepoint they could walk away 100
percent but your time was paid for.
That's the most important thingbecause you've been through all the
horticulture classes and landscapeclasses, design classes that cost money.
(11:01):
You've been climbing trees, designing,you name it across the board, all of those
experiences and extra classes and things.
Have cost money and time nowit's time to charge for it.
Yeah, exactly.
And we don't really look at it as like,Hey, you know, we're going to charge this
rate for you and you're going to pay it.
We usually, we, we chargeit as like a design deposit
(11:24):
towards the customer's project.
So, like, they, it goestowards their project.
It just shows their commitment to us.
You know, they've approved this contract.
They've given us this deposit.
Like you intend on working with us.
Like we feel good about that.
It's a deposit.
And then they know in the back of theirmind, like, Hey, this is going towards
my project at the end of the day.
So it's a win win for both sides.
(11:44):
Right.
Yeah.
Love it.
Love it Let's talk about somethingelse this thing called icp and
we talk about it a lot you know,it's evolved over the few years.
I'm sure before ace programYou probably didn't have it
really defined and over time.
We've really honed in on that's calledyour ideal customer profile Explain
(12:06):
how it was previously at baits YouAnd then we started to realize that
we need to hone in on that craft.
A little scary to identify thatbecause you probably have some people
that are not your ideal customer.
And what do we do with those?
And then you transition.
Then now it's much smoother.
Can you talk about that?
Yeah.
So, and it's throughpeer groups that we've.
(12:26):
You know, gotten a lot of this greatinformation and then also like the, the
books that we read in peer group to likethe pumpkin plant, that was like another,
like, send it home kind of factor for us.
But, you know, the ideal customerprofile, you know, 2 years ago, we.
We would basically just take whatever.
Oh, yeah, you're calling in.
You want us to bid off this rfp?
(12:47):
Oh, oh you have the specs from thisother local landscaper, you know,
of course we'll bid on it, right?
And it just got to a point where we didn'treally Have any say in what exactly we
were bidding because you're talking toa bunch of different customers, right?
You know your facilities managerat an industrial complex is a
(13:08):
totally different customer than yourproperty manager that is dealing
with homeowners associations, right?
And so, you know, in order to likefigure out what their values are
for both of those places, you haveto understand like what's a good
fit for you and for your company.
So identifying your idealcustomer, where do they look like?
Where do they go?
(13:29):
You know, What kind of values dothey have and are they going to place
on landscaping is super important.
Yeah.
You know, that is, we usedto say yes to all, right?
Because we were young and we'reaggressive and we just want to, I
think we get in this industry alsobecause we want to help people, right?
You know, there's, there'ssome sort of a pain point.
(13:49):
that our clients are facing at some, atsome point within their sort of landscape.
It's a frustration or somethingdoesn't work or, or whatever.
Yes.
Isn't always the answer now.
So you've really identified that.
And when you identify that, thatidle customer, usually it's sort of a
age group, it's a type of, you know,where they live or where they dine.
(14:10):
And, how do they buy?
It's different between a property managerof an HOA versus a residential client.
And but you can set the expectations, howthey buy, what are their values, all that.
And then you really understand likewhat you need to provide to your client.
And then you're really hitting them.
With that expectation, you know, it'sreally clear at the end of the day.
(14:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and it's important to know wheretheir values lie because do their values
line up with yours of your company, right?
So like if they're very technologydriven, if they're a technology driven
customer and you like to do things oldschool, you like to hand deliver things,
you like to stop by the property allthe time and, you know, shake their hand
(14:56):
in person, You know, then those valuesdon't really line up together, right?
So like being able to make sure thatyou understand the two different
types of customers and, or theseveral different types of customers.
And, you know, does thatfit with your company too?
Yeah.
So let's talk about this.
you've run into lots of clientsand throughout the years, as you
(15:17):
approach a new client to sellsomething, what is your approach?
Like, how do you handle that?
Is there a series of questions thatyou always ask or is there, is there
homework prior to your arrival?
So you have an expectation, liketalk about to our audience, like
what, how you've been successfulin this part of the world.
Oh, my gosh, all of thosethings, all of those things.
(15:38):
Well, I like to go prepared to places,you know, like, I like to, try and
know as much as I can before I go therebecause, it's important to be able
to try and identify with a customer.
You have to, know where their values are.
I don't want to keep going back tovalues, but that's a huge thing.
so you want to do your research aheadof time and know the customer that
you're approaching, whether it's a.
(16:00):
Senior living site, or if it'san industrial place, or if it's a
shopping center, you want to knowexactly who you're targeting and
what type of customer they are sothat you can tailor your message.
And then besides, you know, beingprepared, then in you had him on
the podcast and I really liked him.
Mike Weinberg, he talks a lot about, yeah,in his book, the presentation versus the
(16:25):
interview, and that couldn't be more true.
That portion of
Explain that real quick.
If you're new to this audienceor didn't hear that, that
episode, explain what that is.
oh my gosh.
Well, hopefully, like, he wouldn'tbe upset with me, like, trying to,
you know, Remember exactly what hesaid, but it's basically that you
never want to go into a meeting witha customer and have a presentation.
(16:47):
Oh, Bates does this, Bates does that.
This is all about us.
Here's the services thatwe can provide for you.
Like all of that.
Because it's just falling on deaf ears.
What does the customer want?
That's what you have to find out.
You have to find out, hey, What is it thatyou like about your current landscaper?
You know, if there was three things thatyou could change about them or their snow
(17:08):
removal process or their communicationskills, like what are those three things?
Like if you had a crystal ball,like where did, what is your
ideal landscaper look like?
You know, do theycommunicate often with you?
Do you never have to talk to them?
Do they come by the property once a week?
Like what?
And then that way in asking thosequestions and conducting that
(17:28):
meeting, conducting that interviewprocess that he talks about.
You really get to know the customer,and then you can tailor what it
is that you can provide to them.
Because it is, at the end of the day,you're helping them, like you said, Tommy.
You're helping them with trying tofigure out, how do I solve your problem?
If I'm not, if I'm not here tohelp you solve a problem, then
(17:49):
what the heck am I here for?
You can just have your current guy do it.
Like, you don't need me if I'mnot gonna solve a problem for you.
Oh my gosh.
Music to my ears.
That is literally haddiscussion this week.
While I was traveling, it's just.
We just want to throw all of our stuffthat we do in the client space, right?
We do everything, bed cleanup,and flowers, and mowing, and we
(18:12):
can do, and we're not even reallygetting to know the person.
Like, you can throw all your papersand, all your biography out the window
and go, just have a conversation.
with this person and ask themquestions to get to know them, right?
Whether it's inside their home tosee what their home looks like,
whether it's walking out on an HOAproperty and diagnosing and how he
(18:36):
or she, you know, sees things throughtheir lens and the pain points.
But the number one thing is when theycall Bates, it's we have a problem, right?
And Bates needs to solve the problem.
And once Bates solves the problem,let's move on to the next thing, right?
The next sort of thingsthat we want to accomplish.
(18:59):
Yeah.
And the same thing goes for like,like, I know I keep referring back to
like the commercial stuff, but thatit's just because we've been, I've
been in bid season for so long now.
So that's what I've been working on.
But the residential side ofthings, it's all about how are
you going to use the space?
Like I always, when I'm talkingto customers, I'm like, okay,
so how many kids do you have?
(19:20):
You know, how often are you guys outside?
Do you mostly use the, the, the patioin the fall, in the winter, you know, in
the summertime, when are you out here?
Do any of your kids play sports?
Do you guys like soccer?
How many people do you usually have here?
Like, are these kids going to bejumping off of this, like new water
feature that we built into the pool?
Like, how are you using thisspace so that I can tailor exactly
(19:43):
what I'm going to do around that?
Because if you don't have, ifyou don't have those questions
like answered, how, how are yougoing to be able to build them?
Their ideal space withoutasking them, right?
Yeah, getting to know the clientis probably the biggest goal.
And at the end of the day, you have asummary of that person or that client
or that property, and then you, thenyou really go in and attack mode to
(20:07):
say, this is how we can help you, right?
And maybe it's just a drainageissue where they're standing
water on half the backyard.
Great.
Let's fix the drainage issue.
And then we can move on tosomething else at that time.
But right now we've got to solve thisproblem that you initially called us for.
I love it.
Just, just, just, it's great.
Talk about do you have like a salesprocess or something that you follow?
(20:31):
Say you meet with a client, likewhat's the next step after that?
And is there a timeline or isthere, documents or things that
you need to get back to them?
Talk about that a little bit.
Yeah.
So, for the residential, like, designbuild process, if we have a referral,
say, from an existing customer that wejust recently did a project for, I'll
get on the phone with them and, youknow, talk to them initially about it.
(20:54):
It's always our 1st step isalways a phone call because.
A we want to make sure we're not wastingtheir time because hopefully it's
something that we can help with right?
So we'll talk to them on the phone abouttheir project try and gauge exactly
what they're looking for Get some like,you know touch points like must haves
like must have a swim spa must havePrivacy planting must have patio, you
(21:16):
know, whatever those must haves are andthen kind of shell those out, right?
And then after we talk about those wetry to talk about budget that way we
can talk about financing with them ifany of that is is an option for them And
then I always try to ask for pictures.
So pinterest is alwayspeople's bff, right?
so like you go on there and likethat really really gives you because
(21:40):
You can have somebody describeto you what they're looking for.
You can, right?
You like, But i'm thinking of somethingtotally different like i'm like, oh, yeah.
No, I love that I know exactly whatyou're talking about, but until
they send you like photos here.
This is what i'm thinking I'm,like, oh, that's so cool That's
not at all what I thought,
right?
And like that's okay, you know, like itdoesn't matter as long as they send me
(22:04):
what exactly they're looking for, right?
So they send me concepts of like thoughtslike hey like this this and this and then
what I can do Is once I get out on siteand i'm doing measurements and i'm having
a talk with them I can point out differentfeatures in the pictures that they sent
to me and I can say okay So you likethis, okay What do you think about this?
Do you like thiswinterberry holly in here?
(22:24):
We could get something like that.
I heard you love Christmas.
Like, this would be great tobring inside for the holidays.
You can use this for cuttings, likestuff like that, that maybe they
like weren't even thinking about.
They just saw the picture andthey were like, yeah, I like that.
So then there's not really a, likea timeline on things, Tommy, because
the design process is very, it's notthat it's like intimate, but it is at
(22:48):
the same time, because you're really.
You're creating a whole outdoor spacefor the customer, you know, so you don't
want to like rush anybody through thatin picking materials, in, in coming
up with concepts and stuff like that.
So the design phase is typicallythe longest besides the obvious,
like install portion of it.
But yeah, we'll have onsite meetings,in person meetings, zoom meetings, you
(23:10):
know, just meetings on meetings to justmake sure that everything is a hundred
percent of what they're looking for.
They're all dialed in.
Yeah.
It's, it's great.
So you have this phone sort of intakedialogue, the needs, the wants, and
you're, you're taking notes and it's alot of the, Sort of the wishful thinking
photos, the Pinterest, the ideas and thenyou talk about the features that you want
(23:36):
in the spaces, but I like, you know, theno timeline because it's intimate, but
along the way, most of you're probablycommunicating that very thoroughly.
Okay.
Yeah.
I'm in this process.
Yes, miss Smith.
Now I'm doing this and I'm going toshow you like sort of some concepts of.
Kind of what I'm thinking a little bit,but it's very, very little intimate
(23:58):
type deal and you've got to be in thezone and really come, you know, all
these ideas of papers in the client'sbrain, all put together in one space,
yeah,
no easy task.
no.
And it's fun.
That's what I get.
Like, I always tell people, like,this is always my favorite part.
Like, you know, Tommy, I love sales.
(24:19):
Like you love operations.
I love sales.
And like that whole designprocess, it's like a lot.
It's like a lot of pullingin of different things.
But like the whole end result, likeyou were like, Seeing everything come
to life and seeing everything fullcircle when the color changing lights
are on at night and they're sendingme You know pictures text messages.
(24:40):
They're watching the eagles game outsideand they're like, oh my god, melissa Look
at this like we had so much fun on sunday.
Like thanks again, like That, you know,tear to my eye, it warms my heart.
I love it.
Yeah.
That's great.
So I got a question.
Let's talk about, throw you a curve ball.
If someone's doing design work and they'reyoung in their career, what are some
(25:01):
sort of nuggets that a young designersales person needs to have in order to
be successful at their, at their role?
I
say to not get yourself all hyped upthat like you went to college and like
you have all this experience becausebeing in the field is invaluable.
(25:23):
Like don't try to put yourself above.
That whole experience because not onlyis it essential but you don't know
everything you don't like i'm stilllearning like that's why you do the you
listen to the podcast and you listento audiobooks because You need to
continue to learn and like that fieldexperience outside of college I mean
(25:44):
even if you don't go to college thefield experience is really the the place
to go and to try and Always work withsomebody that's smarter than you, right?
Like that.
I think, you know, you never want tobe like, oh, I know everything that's,
that would be like the biggest downfall.
I would say is, you know, always workingwith somebody that's smarter than you that
(26:05):
can teach you things and always be willingto learn, spend that time in the field.
Throw, you know, dig those holes,you know, make those patios, right?
So, like, all of those things are superessential and don't get discouraged if you
don't get a job right when you want to,like, as, like, an entry level landscape
designer, like, don't be discouraged.
(26:25):
Like, everybody has to start somewhere.
And the field is agreat place to start in.
And then even if you can do aninternship or shadow under somebody or
be somebody's assistant, like you'llget there, but it just might take a
little longer and that's totally okay.
Right.
it.
A hundred percent agree with you, Melissa.
I think that everything you say, I.
(26:47):
Understand and we're like so much incommon because me having a landscape
architecture degree, I didn't, I kindof did that, but I kind of didn't,
I went to the field and I had twointernships in the world, you know,
college probably wasn't great for me.
You know, I'm not the guy that sits there.
I kind of.
(27:07):
a little bit.
I'm the BC student, you know,but, I didn't really care.
I got the piece of paper and I got out,but where I really learned the most
was an internship two summers in a row.
And then I did odd jobs, pouringconcrete, laying asphalt, mowing
grass, like all those things.
And then when I gotout of college, it was.
Design and real world installations.
(27:29):
And I'll never forget going out on myfirst job site, the older man, probably
60, goes, I don't care who you are andwhat degree you got, you don't know shit.
That's it.
I'm like, yeah, you're right.
I really don't know much other than how todraw bubble diagrams in a fantasy world of
design with no budgets and no timelines.
Exactly.
(27:49):
You're so right.
You're so right.
And so the thing is, get yourbutt in a company where you just
go on a crew, go in the field,climb trees for crying out loud.
You've done, you've done an internship.
I know with the Valleycrestgroup years ago, right?
You probably learned howto do all that stuff.
Get your hands involved in everything.
(28:12):
And then you can start to dial back intosomething specific within that company.
Oh my gosh.
Well, you would laugh.
I, when I was interviewing at thetree company before I got hired
there, please don't make fun of me.
And I know I'm telling everybody thisstory, but I was being interviewed there.
And I, like at that time, I was freshout of school and like you, like college,
wasn't really like, I always liked school,but like, it goes one in year and out the
(28:34):
other, like I'm like a hands on person.
Like I need to see everything and.
Like learning plants, like in school,it just didn't really, it just
didn't really get to me like that.
So I was interviewing there at the treecompany and he's walking me around.
And he's asking me questions.
And of course I was great with all that,you know, but then he goes, Melissa, what
what kind of tree is that right there?
And he points at this tree.
(28:55):
And to this day, all the guysthat I worked with in the field,
they made fun of me nonstop.
He pointed to this tree, Tommy,guess what kind of tree it was.
Live Oak.
No, it was a white pine andI had no idea what it was.
I was like, I have no idea.
And that's like, that's how bad it was.
And that's why, I say that isbecause like, I thought that I knew,
(29:18):
like you said, like no budgets,no concept of anything, like when
you're in school and then you get outin the real world and like, that's
why you have to earn your chops.
You gotta be in the fieldto get that experience.
You just have to.
I love it's the best thing ever is learnthe field because you have a better
understanding how to design and I thinkthat's why not to toot my own horn while
(29:40):
successful in the install side is becauseI had years of experience on the design,
kind of the architecture of the landscape,working with landscape architects,
drawing, designing, And then putting thatinto an install side, I can, well, as I'm
installing, I can work with architectsvery, very well because I can take
their vision and put it in the ground.
Just get out there inthe field and learn it.
(30:02):
It is a whole new game,jump in and encourage it.
Yep.
All right.
I got something that'sreally, really awesome.
you're like a teacher,professor, person in the trades
industry, the College of Trades.
And I think this is the mostamazing story right now.
(30:23):
You're currently a teacherin this because I strongly
believe Trades is where it's at.
This is where we reallycatapult the landscape industry.
Is not everyone realizing that landscapingis a career and you can go do this.
Tell me about your involvementand what it means to you.
Yeah,
(30:46):
everybody I'm an adjunct professor,professor, but, you know, Professor
Blake, but that's not actually true.
I just said, you know, I, I teach a coursein the introduction to landscape design.
Which I love.
So it's at a local trade college andit's for all boys and I, I do that
and they actually just asked me if Iwould teach another course, like kind
(31:08):
of like a hands on, like real lifecustomer and how all of that works.
But I love it.
I mean, I feel like, likeyou're totally right.
you know, electricians, HVAC,landscaping, like all of those
trades, they're so important.
Like, people take them for granted.
And like, anytime that I can tryand get the students all excited
(31:30):
about landscaping, I'm like, Oh,my God, like, You have such, you
have such a career ahead of you.
You don't even know like this stuffthat you find passion in, you know,
it's going to do wonders for you.
And so, yeah, so I do theintroduction to landscape design.
We do a lot of in person field trips.
We go to parks, we go to differentsites and look at projects.
(31:52):
And we kind of talk about why thisfunction works, why that function
works, why we would put a retaining wallthere, because it's a really hands on.
College there.
So they like to seeeverything in the real world.
So yeah, I, I love it.
I love that as like a way of beingable to kind of give back and,
and motivate the next generationof, of landscapers, hopefully,
(32:15):
it's a funny story.
So I, after I graduated collegea few years down the road, I got
invited to go back and speak.
To the the college I graduatedout of in the program.
I went to, let's just say I didn'treally get invited back again because
I kind of told him how I reallyfelt about the college experience.
It was fine.
(32:36):
It was cool.
But I said, you're reallygoing to get your experience.
And internships and working jobs.
And then you really get a download ofreally what this industry is all about.
I wish they did more of that in school.
So my recommendation, if you don't takethe call drop, get into the trades program
for crying out loud is the best thingever learn, learn, learn internships,
(32:59):
small jobs, side jobs in this industry.
This is my favorite industryever because we meet people
like you and companies like you.
And we're super passionate about puttingreally awesome landscapes in the ground,
maintaining beautiful landscapes,doing great for the environment.
We get to have fun.
We get to make money.
Oh, and by the way, I learned a new stat.
(33:20):
More millionaires are producedin the landscape industry
than other, any other trades.
So
I'm telling you, I'm tellingyou, like, get involved.
This is great.
Melissa, any sort of words of wisdomto our audience always leave this sort
of open ended question towards the end.
What's the words of wisdom for anyone outthere in this industry that, you know,
(33:44):
it's, Just put in the hard work and, youknow, what, what do you live and die by?
So I would say that youshould never stop learning.
I mean, I think that, I know wetalked about that, but I think
that over the past years that, thatwe've been kind of either working
(34:05):
together and I've been working here.
It's, it's one of those thingswhere you gotta continue to read.
You have to like look atpeople's LinkedIn posts.
You know, people put cool stuffup on LinkedIn all the time.
Listen to the audiobooks and podcastsand continue to kind of educate
yourself so that Not only are youmaking it a better experience for
(34:25):
the customer that you're helping, butyou're also, you know, just do it.
You're just doing better for yourself.
I mean, if you'd stop learning, thenyou're just, you're just stagnant.
So I think learning is probablythe most important thing and 10
seminars, go to NALP events, youknow, go and explore other places,
go on trips where you can like visitother gardens and see what other
(34:46):
companies are doing, stuff like that.
Like the learning part, Ithink is the biggest thing.
Yeah.
agree with you.
There's a statistic that saysthe average 21 year old dies.
And the reason why they die isbecause they stopped learning.
Remember as a kid, we're always intriguedby things and doing things and failures.
and trying new stuff and failing again.
(35:10):
And then we get to this agewhere like, eh, I think I'm fine.
No, like use all sides of yourbrain, really dive into this stuff.
I'm a fan of just.
I don't listen to the radio much.
Put on a good podcast that eithermotivates you or you get one or two
nuggets along the way on a long walk toget your morning started off right, attend
(35:31):
certain things and conferences and learn.
Heck, I would say go get in a landscapetruck and go do installations for a
day and just learn what the crews do.
Just put yourself in your shoes, right?
Just jump in a truckand go and learn that.
You will be amazed whatyou can learn these days.
All this information is soaccessible to, at our fingertips,
(35:54):
you know, it's, it's fascinating.
That's the power of the peer group too,where we read books and you guys are
fan of the books and the audio books.
I mean, every one of you're just likemore, give me more, give me more.
It's been great.
And that, that thing that you justsaid about the nuggets, like you're
not gonna, like, I never expect whenwe go to like visit other companies or
(36:15):
when I go to a conference or something,like I never think like, Oh my God,
this is going to change my whole life.
Right.
Like, you don't look at it like that.
You have to look at it.
Like if I get two things, two littlenuggets to, you know, that are going to
move the needle in the direction that Iwant to go in, then that is invaluable.
And so I, yeah, totally agree.
Yeah.
(36:35):
And stepping out of your comfort zone.
I really believe in that.
Right.
I feel like we get into this.
You know our own place And the four wallsof our office and our home and we get
really comfortable and we get Complacentand and and everything you can't see it
And then when you step away for three daysmolested to some other state No city that
(36:56):
you've never been to and someone else'sfacility You learn a lot and then you come
back whether it be a trade show or nlp andcome back and go I am fired up because I
got two nuggets and i'm like I got a joltof energy like you would not believe You
Oh yeah.
Totally.
Yes.
Just like, just going on thevisits, you like you see something
and you're like, duh, duh.
(37:17):
Why?
I, I knew that.
But like it takes some time, somebodyelse to say it to you and you're
like, I should have, I should havejust thought of that the whole time.
You're right.
Well done.
Well done that.
Well, Melissa, it's beena pleasure having you.
I've had you on my list for a while.
You didn't know it, but one of my mostfavorite peer group members is Melissa
and her entire team because I will neverforget meeting you guys and bring you
(37:41):
guys down to Corpus Christi and theywere taking notes and I swear they
filled up half a notebook full of notes.
And I was like, Oh my God,these people love to learn.
They're intense about theirindustry and they want to do good.
And I was like, I love these people.
So
my gosh.
You would love it.
I brought this just in case Ineeded to write down a note.
I figured like maybe he'll say somethingand I'll need to write it down.
(38:03):
So
Yeah, I love it.
You're so awesome.
Give my best to the entire Bates team.
Justin and Dylan can't, can'tgive them enough credit as well.
They are awesome people and we'll seeyou guys soon, but it's been a pleasure
and thank you for for being on the show,
Yeah.
Thanks Tommy.
I appreciate it.
Ready to take the next step?
(38:25):
Download our free Profitability Scorecardto quickly create your own baseline
financial assessment and uncover thefastest ways to improve your business.
Just go to McFarlinStanford.com/scorecardto get yours today To learn more about
McFarlin Stanford our best in classpeer groups and other services go to
our website at McFarlinStanford.comAnd don't forget to follow us on
(38:48):
LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.
See you next time on the Roots of Success.
The Roots of Success podcast isfor the landscape professional
who's looking to up their game.
We've got a brain trust of experts tohelp you nurture the roots of a successful
business and grow to the next level.
This is The Roots of Success.
Welcome to Roots of Success Podcast,and I'm your host, Tommy Cole.
(00:24):
Once again, we have an awesomeguest that has been begging,
begging to be on this show.
She might be a little nervous, but Iam so thrilled for this young lady.
She is a peer group member and hasbeen for years and one of the most
amazing peer group members and herteam that I've ever seen Graciously
(00:45):
and aggressively taking notes at everysingle meeting absorbing so much content.
I love that Her name is melissa blakeFrom Bates Landscaping in one of our,
it's my second home's Philly go Phillies.
We, we go there at least multipletimes a year with Bates Landscaping.
How are you, Melissa?
(01:06):
I am good Tommy.
I told you I was gonna be likeRicky, Bobby and Talladega
Knight during this whole thing.
Like I don't know where to put my hands.
I don't want to get my hands.
Well, if you're like me, you justkind of wave them all over the place.
Like you're kind of crazy.
Right.
You just don't care of anyways.
That's kind of it's awhole nother deal, right?
Yeah, it's the awkwardness, but I dospeak with my hands as most people
(01:29):
can't see that unless you're in person.
But Melissa, this is such an honor.
I've I've seen you guys for many years.
You and your team has justbeen fascinating to watch
and seeing grow and develop.
It's been great.
So that leads, that leads it to how inthe world did you get in this industry?
You know, landscaping and all that.
(01:50):
And there's one little thing that Ilearned about you a little while back.
You grew up in a concretejungle and had no green space.
So you're like, I've got to goto the parks and you know, and
enjoy the green and the natureand the birds and you name it.
I was like, oh my God, you're destinedto be a landscape designer salesperson.
(02:12):
So tell me more about that.
Well, it's funny that you saythat because I was going to say,
but I'm glad that you remembered.
I yeah, so growing up, I mean,I grew up right outside of
Philadelphia in an area called Delco.
But it was a row home area.
I had an alley and aporch and that was it.
So all concrete never, like.
Had any thought of any green space.
(02:33):
My mom didn't like, do anything like that.
But I've been working my whole life.
I had a paper route like you didand I worked at a grocery store.
So I've always been working.
And when I went into high school, Istill didn't know what I wanted to do.
And so in high school, they hadme choose an elective there.
And I ended up choosinghorticulture as one of my electives.
(02:55):
We had this super cool greenhouse offof my high school and I graduated with
like 850 people in my graduating class.
So like they had all sorts of coolstuff, but I picked horticulture.
They had this greenhouse and hydroponicsand I had this really great teacher
and he was like, the industry is socool, Melissa, you, you would love it.
So I ended up.
(03:16):
Applying to a couple ofdifferent universities.
I ended up at Penn state, whichthey have an amazing program
they do.
They're very regarded asa great program there.
And I loved it.
And during school I took a treeclimbing class and my professor
there was like, did you know you canlike make money at climbing trees?
I was like, no, I had no idea.
You know?
So I ended up getting recruited ata college and worked at a national
(03:40):
tree company for three or four years.
Just as like a climbing arborist.
And plant health care technicianand I that like experience
for me was invaluable.
So I love that.
But, you know, in that timethat I was there, I, like,
really wanted to use my degree.
And so I was doing some freelancingstuff here and there, and when I
(04:01):
was interviewing there as, like,for, like, the arborist position,
I was like, no, I don't want tojust sell tree work my whole life.
I wanted to, like, utilize my degree.
So, I ended up at Bates 10 years ago,and at that time, we were just a small,
you know, company, I mean, we're still asmall company now, but a small company,
and mowing grass, and doing maintenance,like, for residential customers, and
(04:25):
I brought in all my knowledge of planthealth care, and my design knowledge, and
all of this stuff, and careful You know,here we are, you know, 10 years later.
And so yeah, so that's how I got here.
Concrete jungle.
To climbing trees, like yourfamily's probably like, what
is this crazy lady doing?
I
Oh my God.
My mom hated it.
(04:46):
She like hated it.
She was like, Melissa, please,please be careful today.
I'm like, yeah, mom, justgoing in a tulip poplar.
No big deal.
Yeah.
I'm just like kind of a monkey, justjumping around all over the place
and trimming limbs and getting,getting, you know, dirty and all that.
But that's how we learn is literallyjust to get outside and learn.
I mean, that's how I got in the industry.
It was like, I like golfand I like the outdoors.
(05:10):
Like, just get me outsideto do something like that.
That's what I was.
Kind of was headed towardsthe architecture route.
It was like, that kind of sounds boring.
No, no harm.
Anyone don't, don't shoot me now, butlandscape architecture just seemed like
the fit, whether it be horticultureor outdoor design hardscaping
(05:30):
landscape architecture, designworld was just, you know, So unique.
And to this day, when you say,yeah, I'm in the landscape,
they're like, Oh my gosh, youknow, I've got this or this, right?
yeah,
That's great.
So talk about your role at Bates, right?
So you're, you've been there 10 years.
I'm sure it's evolved into every singlething you can imagine, but you've
(05:50):
really narrowed it down into your niche.
And basically you're kind of thedesign sales person for all of Bates.
What is that like foryou guys at the team?
Yeah.
So I had the sales and designdepartment for, like, the
residential design install portion.
So anytime customer wants a new outdoorliving space, kitchen, fire pit, patio,
(06:15):
walkway, whatever the case may be, I getinvolved with that whole process there.
And then I also help with a lot of the.
Business development on thecommercial side and residential side.
Like, if we're looking for a newengineer to partner with for stormwater
management, because that's big wherewe are, then I also help with that too.
(06:36):
So, but obviously, landscape designis my ultimate passion, so I love it.
Yeah, that's great.
It's something so fascinating to me, istaking someone's vision, put it in sort of
a design, whether it be, you know, 2d, 3d,and then put it in the ground and then to
(06:56):
see the transformation is basically like.
A kid in a candy store.
I mean, I'm sure you get giddy andexcited to see the full circle and then
go, Oh my God, that's what we designed.
Like
that's, that's amazing to seethe smile on clients faces.
Oh yeah.
I mean, I was working on, I had acall this morning with a customer
that's getting a pool installed thatwe're a part of and they need us
(07:20):
to help with our outdoor kitchen.
And I was just like walking them throughsomething simple, like light fixtures
that people like, I get all excited about.
I'm like, Oh, do you know I could dothese cool color changing lights for you?
Like how fun would it bewhen the Eagles are playing?
You could turn them green, you know?
So like stuff like that, you know,you get jazzed up because If you're
excited about the process with thecustomer, then they're going to be so
(07:40):
excited, too, you know, so you wantto show that passion to them, which
is like probably my favorite part.
Yeah.
You have unbelievably passion.
It shows.
When you're around and it's kindof contagious because the client
gets a little really excited.
So talk about this little thingcalled charging for design.
I'm sure you didn't in the pastbecause you probably found every
(08:02):
reason why not to charge for your time.
And then talk about that and then whyyou transitioned to charge for design.
Thank you, Melissa, for taking thatopportunity to To do that because
we are valuable in our industry andwe should be charging for our time.
So take me through that wholeprocess with you and your team.
Yeah, so that was something, you know,like, fresh out of school and right,
(08:26):
you know, we're we were small business.
So any opportunity that somebodywanted to give us to, like.
install a walkway for them,do new plantings, you know,
whatever the case may be.
We, we jumped all over itand I would start right away.
And that was, you know, like 10 yearsago, although like the technology was
there, we were too small to obviouslyafford any sort of like software program.
(08:47):
Right.
And so I would do everything by hand.
And so that meant I would go to theirhouse, I would show them the designs.
And if they wanted me to move thatAzalea from the left side foundation
to the right side foundation.
That meant I had to make awhole different design for them.
I couldn't just like move it and, youknow, paste and, you know, cut like you
(09:08):
can on, yeah, the computer and stuff.
But so I was doing that and I, I thinkwe were just so gung ho about doing
designs for customers that we didn'teven think like, oh, they're gonna,
they're gonna take this design and, youknow, they're either gonna hold off or
they're just gonna give it to somebodyelse or whatever the case may be.
I mean.
We were going as far as like, Iwould take people to the nursery
(09:30):
and pick out plants with them.
I would go to like the supplierand I would be like, here's
this great techo block paper.
Like, what do you think about this?
What do you think about that?
And not charging for any of it.
And then we ran into so many timeswhere they would just take my design and
either not do it and just hold on to it.
Or they would have their, you know,Local guy that cuts their grass do it
(09:53):
and we just, like, lost so much timeand over the years, you know, we've
obviously learned that our time is supervaluable, especially as we bring on
other landscape designers and other teammembers on to the team here at dates that.
We have to charge for that time becauseif we're expecting the salesperson or
the designer to, you know, hit a certainnumber of sales, have these certain KPIs,
(10:17):
we can't not be charging for their time.
Otherwise it's just wasted.
And our team's time istoo valuable for that.
right.
You know, it's, it's no differentthan any other industry, right?
Lawyers, doctors, electricians,plumbers, you name it, across
the board, time is being charged.
(10:38):
And then when they, when youdo charges, the client is
highly invested at that point.
You know, they, they bought intoyou, they bought into the design.
You know, you could think at somepoint they could walk away 100
percent but your time was paid for.
That's the most important thingbecause you've been through all the
horticulture classes and landscapeclasses, design classes that cost money.
(11:01):
You've been climbing trees, designing,you name it across the board, all of those
experiences and extra classes and things.
Have cost money and time nowit's time to charge for it.
Yeah, exactly.
And we don't really look at it as like,Hey, you know, we're going to charge this
rate for you and you're going to pay it.
We usually, we, we chargeit as like a design deposit
(11:24):
towards the customer's project.
So, like, they, it goestowards their project.
It just shows their commitment to us.
You know, they've approved this contract.
They've given us this deposit.
Like you intend on working with us.
Like we feel good about that.
It's a deposit.
And then they know in the back of theirmind, like, Hey, this is going towards
my project at the end of the day.
So it's a win win for both sides.
(11:44):
Right.
Yeah.
Love it.
Love it Let's talk about somethingelse this thing called icp and
we talk about it a lot you know,it's evolved over the few years.
I'm sure before ace programYou probably didn't have it
really defined and over time.
We've really honed in on that's calledyour ideal customer profile Explain
(12:06):
how it was previously at baits YouAnd then we started to realize that
we need to hone in on that craft.
A little scary to identify thatbecause you probably have some people
that are not your ideal customer.
And what do we do with those?
And then you transition.
Then now it's much smoother.
Can you talk about that?
Yeah.
So, and it's throughpeer groups that we've.
(12:26):
You know, gotten a lot of this greatinformation and then also like the, the
books that we read in peer group to likethe pumpkin plant, that was like another,
like, send it home kind of factor for us.
But, you know, the ideal customerprofile, you know, 2 years ago, we.
We would basically just take whatever.
Oh, yeah, you're calling in.
You want us to bid off this rfp?
(12:47):
Oh, oh you have the specs from thisother local landscaper, you know,
of course we'll bid on it, right?
And it just got to a point where we didn'treally Have any say in what exactly we
were bidding because you're talking toa bunch of different customers, right?
You know your facilities managerat an industrial complex is a
(13:08):
totally different customer than yourproperty manager that is dealing
with homeowners associations, right?
And so, you know, in order to likefigure out what their values are
for both of those places, you haveto understand like what's a good
fit for you and for your company.
So identifying your idealcustomer, where do they look like?
Where do they go?
(13:29):
You know, What kind of values dothey have and are they going to place
on landscaping is super important.
Yeah.
You know, that is, we usedto say yes to all, right?
Because we were young and we'reaggressive and we just want to, I
think we get in this industry alsobecause we want to help people, right?
You know, there's, there'ssome sort of a pain point.
(13:49):
that our clients are facing at some, atsome point within their sort of landscape.
It's a frustration or somethingdoesn't work or, or whatever.
Yes.
Isn't always the answer now.
So you've really identified that.
And when you identify that, thatidle customer, usually it's sort of a
age group, it's a type of, you know,where they live or where they dine.
(14:10):
And, how do they buy?
It's different between a property managerof an HOA versus a residential client.
And but you can set the expectations, howthey buy, what are their values, all that.
And then you really understand likewhat you need to provide to your client.
And then you're really hitting them.
With that expectation, you know, it'sreally clear at the end of the day.
(14:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and it's important to know wheretheir values lie because do their values
line up with yours of your company, right?
So like if they're very technologydriven, if they're a technology driven
customer and you like to do things oldschool, you like to hand deliver things,
you like to stop by the property allthe time and, you know, shake their hand
(14:56):
in person, You know, then those valuesdon't really line up together, right?
So like being able to make sure thatyou understand the two different
types of customers and, or theseveral different types of customers.
And, you know, does thatfit with your company too?
Yeah.
So let's talk about this.
you've run into lots of clientsand throughout the years, as you
(15:17):
approach a new client to sellsomething, what is your approach?
Like, how do you handle that?
Is there a series of questions thatyou always ask or is there, is there
homework prior to your arrival?
So you have an expectation, liketalk about to our audience, like
what, how you've been successfulin this part of the world.
Oh, my gosh, all of thosethings, all of those things.
(15:38):
Well, I like to go prepared to places,you know, like, I like to, try and
know as much as I can before I go therebecause, it's important to be able
to try and identify with a customer.
You have to, know where their values are.
I don't want to keep going back tovalues, but that's a huge thing.
so you want to do your research aheadof time and know the customer that
you're approaching, whether it's a.
(16:00):
Senior living site, or if it'san industrial place, or if it's a
shopping center, you want to knowexactly who you're targeting and
what type of customer they are sothat you can tailor your message.
And then besides, you know, beingprepared, then in you had him on
the podcast and I really liked him.
Mike Weinberg, he talks a lot about, yeah,in his book, the presentation versus the
(16:25):
interview, and that couldn't be more true.
That portion of
Explain that real quick.
If you're new to this audienceor didn't hear that, that
episode, explain what that is.
oh my gosh.
Well, hopefully, like, he wouldn'tbe upset with me, like, trying to,
you know, Remember exactly what hesaid, but it's basically that you
never want to go into a meeting witha customer and have a presentation.
(16:47):
Oh, Bates does this, Bates does that.
This is all about us.
Here's the services thatwe can provide for you.
Like all of that.
Because it's just falling on deaf ears.
What does the customer want?
That's what you have to find out.
You have to find out, hey, What is it thatyou like about your current landscaper?
You know, if there was three things thatyou could change about them or their snow
(17:08):
removal process or their communicationskills, like what are those three things?
Like if you had a crystal ball,like where did, what is your
ideal landscaper look like?
You know, do theycommunicate often with you?
Do you never have to talk to them?
Do they come by the property once a week?
Like what?
And then that way in asking thosequestions and conducting that
(17:28):
meeting, conducting that interviewprocess that he talks about.
You really get to know the customer,and then you can tailor what it
is that you can provide to them.
Because it is, at the end of the day,you're helping them, like you said, Tommy.
You're helping them with trying tofigure out, how do I solve your problem?
If I'm not, if I'm not here tohelp you solve a problem, then
(17:49):
what the heck am I here for?
You can just have your current guy do it.
Like, you don't need me if I'mnot gonna solve a problem for you.
Oh my gosh.
Music to my ears.
That is literally haddiscussion this week.
While I was traveling, it's just.
We just want to throw all of our stuffthat we do in the client space, right?
We do everything, bed cleanup,and flowers, and mowing, and we
(18:12):
can do, and we're not even reallygetting to know the person.
Like, you can throw all your papersand, all your biography out the window
and go, just have a conversation.
with this person and ask themquestions to get to know them, right?
Whether it's inside their home tosee what their home looks like,
whether it's walking out on an HOAproperty and diagnosing and how he
(18:36):
or she, you know, sees things throughtheir lens and the pain points.
But the number one thing is when theycall Bates, it's we have a problem, right?
And Bates needs to solve the problem.
And once Bates solves the problem,let's move on to the next thing, right?
The next sort of thingsthat we want to accomplish.
(18:59):
Yeah.
And the same thing goes for like,like, I know I keep referring back to
like the commercial stuff, but thatit's just because we've been, I've
been in bid season for so long now.
So that's what I've been working on.
But the residential side ofthings, it's all about how are
you going to use the space?
Like I always, when I'm talkingto customers, I'm like, okay,
so how many kids do you have?
(19:20):
You know, how often are you guys outside?
Do you mostly use the, the, the patioin the fall, in the winter, you know, in
the summertime, when are you out here?
Do any of your kids play sports?
Do you guys like soccer?
How many people do you usually have here?
Like, are these kids going to bejumping off of this, like new water
feature that we built into the pool?
Like, how are you using thisspace so that I can tailor exactly
(19:43):
what I'm going to do around that?
Because if you don't have, ifyou don't have those questions
like answered, how, how are yougoing to be able to build them?
Their ideal space withoutasking them, right?
Yeah, getting to know the clientis probably the biggest goal.
And at the end of the day, you have asummary of that person or that client
or that property, and then you, thenyou really go in and attack mode to
(20:07):
say, this is how we can help you, right?
And maybe it's just a drainageissue where they're standing
water on half the backyard.
Great.
Let's fix the drainage issue.
And then we can move on tosomething else at that time.
But right now we've got to solve thisproblem that you initially called us for.
I love it.
Just, just, just, it's great.
Talk about do you have like a salesprocess or something that you follow?
(20:31):
Say you meet with a client, likewhat's the next step after that?
And is there a timeline or isthere, documents or things that
you need to get back to them?
Talk about that a little bit.
Yeah.
So, for the residential, like, designbuild process, if we have a referral,
say, from an existing customer that wejust recently did a project for, I'll
get on the phone with them and, youknow, talk to them initially about it.
(20:54):
It's always our 1st step isalways a phone call because.
A we want to make sure we're not wastingtheir time because hopefully it's
something that we can help with right?
So we'll talk to them on the phone abouttheir project try and gauge exactly
what they're looking for Get some like,you know touch points like must haves
like must have a swim spa must havePrivacy planting must have patio, you
(21:16):
know, whatever those must haves are andthen kind of shell those out, right?
And then after we talk about those wetry to talk about budget that way we
can talk about financing with them ifany of that is is an option for them And
then I always try to ask for pictures.
So pinterest is alwayspeople's bff, right?
so like you go on there and likethat really really gives you because
(21:40):
You can have somebody describeto you what they're looking for.
You can, right?
You like, But i'm thinking of somethingtotally different like i'm like, oh, yeah.
No, I love that I know exactly whatyou're talking about, but until
they send you like photos here.
This is what i'm thinking I'm,like, oh, that's so cool That's
not at all what I thought,
right?
And like that's okay, you know, like itdoesn't matter as long as they send me
(22:04):
what exactly they're looking for, right?
So they send me concepts of like thoughtslike hey like this this and this and then
what I can do Is once I get out on siteand i'm doing measurements and i'm having
a talk with them I can point out differentfeatures in the pictures that they sent
to me and I can say okay So you likethis, okay What do you think about this?
Do you like thiswinterberry holly in here?
(22:24):
We could get something like that.
I heard you love Christmas.
Like, this would be great tobring inside for the holidays.
You can use this for cuttings, likestuff like that, that maybe they
like weren't even thinking about.
They just saw the picture andthey were like, yeah, I like that.
So then there's not really a, likea timeline on things, Tommy, because
the design process is very, it's notthat it's like intimate, but it is at
(22:48):
the same time, because you're really.
You're creating a whole outdoor spacefor the customer, you know, so you don't
want to like rush anybody through thatin picking materials, in, in coming
up with concepts and stuff like that.
So the design phase is typicallythe longest besides the obvious,
like install portion of it.
But yeah, we'll have onsite meetings,in person meetings, zoom meetings, you
(23:10):
know, just meetings on meetings to justmake sure that everything is a hundred
percent of what they're looking for.
They're all dialed in.
Yeah.
It's, it's great.
So you have this phone sort of intakedialogue, the needs, the wants, and
you're, you're taking notes and it's alot of the, Sort of the wishful thinking
photos, the Pinterest, the ideas and thenyou talk about the features that you want
(23:36):
in the spaces, but I like, you know, theno timeline because it's intimate, but
along the way, most of you're probablycommunicating that very thoroughly.
Okay.
Yeah.
I'm in this process.
Yes, miss Smith.
Now I'm doing this and I'm going toshow you like sort of some concepts of.
Kind of what I'm thinking a little bit,but it's very, very little intimate
(23:58):
type deal and you've got to be in thezone and really come, you know, all
these ideas of papers in the client'sbrain, all put together in one space,
yeah,
no easy task.
no.
And it's fun.
That's what I get.
Like, I always tell people, like,this is always my favorite part.
Like, you know, Tommy, I love sales.
(24:19):
Like you love operations.
I love sales.
And like that whole designprocess, it's like a lot.
It's like a lot of pullingin of different things.
But like the whole end result, likeyou were like, Seeing everything come
to life and seeing everything fullcircle when the color changing lights
are on at night and they're sendingme You know pictures text messages.
(24:40):
They're watching the eagles game outsideand they're like, oh my god, melissa Look
at this like we had so much fun on sunday.
Like thanks again, like That, you know,tear to my eye, it warms my heart.
I love it.
Yeah.
That's great.
So I got a question.
Let's talk about, throw you a curve ball.
If someone's doing design work and they'reyoung in their career, what are some
(25:01):
sort of nuggets that a young designersales person needs to have in order to
be successful at their, at their role?
I
say to not get yourself all hyped upthat like you went to college and like
you have all this experience becausebeing in the field is invaluable.
(25:23):
Like don't try to put yourself above.
That whole experience because not onlyis it essential but you don't know
everything you don't like i'm stilllearning like that's why you do the you
listen to the podcast and you listento audiobooks because You need to
continue to learn and like that fieldexperience outside of college I mean
(25:44):
even if you don't go to college thefield experience is really the the place
to go and to try and Always work withsomebody that's smarter than you, right?
Like that.
I think, you know, you never want tobe like, oh, I know everything that's,
that would be like the biggest downfall.
I would say is, you know, always workingwith somebody that's smarter than you that
(26:05):
can teach you things and always be willingto learn, spend that time in the field.
Throw, you know, dig those holes,you know, make those patios, right?
So, like, all of those things are superessential and don't get discouraged if you
don't get a job right when you want to,like, as, like, an entry level landscape
designer, like, don't be discouraged.
(26:25):
Like, everybody has to start somewhere.
And the field is agreat place to start in.
And then even if you can do aninternship or shadow under somebody or
be somebody's assistant, like you'llget there, but it just might take a
little longer and that's totally okay.
Right.
it.
A hundred percent agree with you, Melissa.
I think that everything you say, I.
(26:47):
Understand and we're like so much incommon because me having a landscape
architecture degree, I didn't, I kindof did that, but I kind of didn't,
I went to the field and I had twointernships in the world, you know,
college probably wasn't great for me.
You know, I'm not the guy that sits there.
I kind of.
(27:07):
a little bit.
I'm the BC student, you know,but, I didn't really care.
I got the piece of paper and I got out,but where I really learned the most
was an internship two summers in a row.
And then I did odd jobs, pouringconcrete, laying asphalt, mowing
grass, like all those things.
And then when I gotout of college, it was.
Design and real world installations.
(27:29):
And I'll never forget going out on myfirst job site, the older man, probably
60, goes, I don't care who you are andwhat degree you got, you don't know shit.
That's it.
I'm like, yeah, you're right.
I really don't know much other than how todraw bubble diagrams in a fantasy world of
design with no budgets and no timelines.
Exactly.
(27:49):
You're so right.
You're so right.
And so the thing is, get yourbutt in a company where you just
go on a crew, go in the field,climb trees for crying out loud.
You've done, you've done an internship.
I know with the Valleycrestgroup years ago, right?
You probably learned howto do all that stuff.
Get your hands involved in everything.
(28:12):
And then you can start to dial back intosomething specific within that company.
Oh my gosh.
Well, you would laugh.
I, when I was interviewing at thetree company before I got hired
there, please don't make fun of me.
And I know I'm telling everybody thisstory, but I was being interviewed there.
And I, like at that time, I was freshout of school and like you, like college,
wasn't really like, I always liked school,but like, it goes one in year and out the
(28:34):
other, like I'm like a hands on person.
Like I need to see everything and.
Like learning plants, like in school,it just didn't really, it just
didn't really get to me like that.
So I was interviewing there at the treecompany and he's walking me around.
And he's asking me questions.
And of course I was great with all that,you know, but then he goes, Melissa, what
what kind of tree is that right there?
And he points at this tree.
(28:55):
And to this day, all the guysthat I worked with in the field,
they made fun of me nonstop.
He pointed to this tree, Tommy,guess what kind of tree it was.
Live Oak.
No, it was a white pine andI had no idea what it was.
I was like, I have no idea.
And that's like, that's how bad it was.
And that's why, I say that isbecause like, I thought that I knew,
(29:18):
like you said, like no budgets,no concept of anything, like when
you're in school and then you get outin the real world and like, that's
why you have to earn your chops.
You gotta be in the fieldto get that experience.
You just have to.
I love it's the best thing ever is learnthe field because you have a better
understanding how to design and I thinkthat's why not to toot my own horn while
(29:40):
successful in the install side is becauseI had years of experience on the design,
kind of the architecture of the landscape,working with landscape architects,
drawing, designing, And then putting thatinto an install side, I can, well, as I'm
installing, I can work with architectsvery, very well because I can take
their vision and put it in the ground.
Just get out there inthe field and learn it.
(30:02):
It is a whole new game,jump in and encourage it.
Yep.
All right.
I got something that'sreally, really awesome.
you're like a teacher,professor, person in the trades
industry, the College of Trades.
And I think this is the mostamazing story right now.
(30:23):
You're currently a teacherin this because I strongly
believe Trades is where it's at.
This is where we reallycatapult the landscape industry.
Is not everyone realizing that landscapingis a career and you can go do this.
Tell me about your involvementand what it means to you.
Yeah,
(30:46):
everybody I'm an adjunct professor,professor, but, you know, Professor
Blake, but that's not actually true.
I just said, you know, I, I teach a coursein the introduction to landscape design.
Which I love.
So it's at a local trade college andit's for all boys and I, I do that
and they actually just asked me if Iwould teach another course, like kind
(31:08):
of like a hands on, like real lifecustomer and how all of that works.
But I love it.
I mean, I feel like, likeyou're totally right.
you know, electricians, HVAC,landscaping, like all of those
trades, they're so important.
Like, people take them for granted.
And like, anytime that I can tryand get the students all excited
(31:30):
about landscaping, I'm like, Oh,my God, like, You have such, you
have such a career ahead of you.
You don't even know like this stuffthat you find passion in, you know,
it's going to do wonders for you.
And so, yeah, so I do theintroduction to landscape design.
We do a lot of in person field trips.
We go to parks, we go to differentsites and look at projects.
(31:52):
And we kind of talk about why thisfunction works, why that function
works, why we would put a retaining wallthere, because it's a really hands on.
College there.
So they like to seeeverything in the real world.
So yeah, I, I love it.
I love that as like a way of beingable to kind of give back and,
and motivate the next generationof, of landscapers, hopefully,
(32:15):
it's a funny story.
So I, after I graduated collegea few years down the road, I got
invited to go back and speak.
To the the college I graduatedout of in the program.
I went to, let's just say I didn'treally get invited back again because
I kind of told him how I reallyfelt about the college experience.
It was fine.
(32:36):
It was cool.
But I said, you're reallygoing to get your experience.
And internships and working jobs.
And then you really get a download ofreally what this industry is all about.
I wish they did more of that in school.
So my recommendation, if you don't takethe call drop, get into the trades program
for crying out loud is the best thingever learn, learn, learn internships,
(32:59):
small jobs, side jobs in this industry.
This is my favorite industryever because we meet people
like you and companies like you.
And we're super passionate about puttingreally awesome landscapes in the ground,
maintaining beautiful landscapes,doing great for the environment.
We get to have fun.
We get to make money.
Oh, and by the way, I learned a new stat.
(33:20):
More millionaires are producedin the landscape industry
than other, any other trades.
So
I'm telling you, I'm tellingyou, like, get involved.
This is great.
Melissa, any sort of words of wisdomto our audience always leave this sort
of open ended question towards the end.
What's the words of wisdom for anyone outthere in this industry that, you know,
(33:44):
it's, Just put in the hard work and, youknow, what, what do you live and die by?
So I would say that youshould never stop learning.
I mean, I think that, I know wetalked about that, but I think
that over the past years that, thatwe've been kind of either working
(34:05):
together and I've been working here.
It's, it's one of those thingswhere you gotta continue to read.
You have to like look atpeople's LinkedIn posts.
You know, people put cool stuffup on LinkedIn all the time.
Listen to the audiobooks and podcastsand continue to kind of educate
yourself so that Not only are youmaking it a better experience for
(34:25):
the customer that you're helping, butyou're also, you know, just do it.
You're just doing better for yourself.
I mean, if you'd stop learning, thenyou're just, you're just stagnant.
So I think learning is probablythe most important thing and 10
seminars, go to NALP events, youknow, go and explore other places,
go on trips where you can like visitother gardens and see what other
(34:46):
companies are doing, stuff like that.
Like the learning part, Ithink is the biggest thing.
Yeah.
agree with you.
There's a statistic that saysthe average 21 year old dies.
And the reason why they die isbecause they stopped learning.
Remember as a kid, we're always intriguedby things and doing things and failures.
and trying new stuff and failing again.
(35:10):
And then we get to this agewhere like, eh, I think I'm fine.
No, like use all sides of yourbrain, really dive into this stuff.
I'm a fan of just.
I don't listen to the radio much.
Put on a good podcast that eithermotivates you or you get one or two
nuggets along the way on a long walk toget your morning started off right, attend
(35:31):
certain things and conferences and learn.
Heck, I would say go get in a landscapetruck and go do installations for a
day and just learn what the crews do.
Just put yourself in your shoes, right?
Just jump in a truckand go and learn that.
You will be amazed whatyou can learn these days.
All this information is soaccessible to, at our fingertips,
(35:54):
you know, it's, it's fascinating.
That's the power of the peer group too,where we read books and you guys are
fan of the books and the audio books.
I mean, every one of you're just likemore, give me more, give me more.
It's been great.
And that, that thing that you justsaid about the nuggets, like you're
not gonna, like, I never expect whenwe go to like visit other companies or
(36:15):
when I go to a conference or something,like I never think like, Oh my God,
this is going to change my whole life.
Right.
Like, you don't look at it like that.
You have to look at it.
Like if I get two things, two littlenuggets to, you know, that are going to
move the needle in the direction that Iwant to go in, then that is invaluable.
And so I, yeah, totally agree.
Yeah.
(36:35):
And stepping out of your comfort zone.
I really believe in that.
Right.
I feel like we get into this.
You know our own place And the four wallsof our office and our home and we get
really comfortable and we get Complacentand and and everything you can't see it
And then when you step away for three daysmolested to some other state No city that
(36:56):
you've never been to and someone else'sfacility You learn a lot and then you come
back whether it be a trade show or nlp andcome back and go I am fired up because I
got two nuggets and i'm like I got a joltof energy like you would not believe You
Oh yeah.
Totally.
Yes.
Just like, just going on thevisits, you like you see something
and you're like, duh, duh.
(37:17):
Why?
I, I knew that.
But like it takes some time, somebodyelse to say it to you and you're
like, I should have, I should havejust thought of that the whole time.
You're right.
Well done.
Well done that.
Well, Melissa, it's beena pleasure having you.
I've had you on my list for a while.
You didn't know it, but one of my mostfavorite peer group members is Melissa
and her entire team because I will neverforget meeting you guys and bring you
(37:41):
guys down to Corpus Christi and theywere taking notes and I swear they
filled up half a notebook full of notes.
And I was like, Oh my God,these people love to learn.
They're intense about theirindustry and they want to do good.
And I was like, I love these people.
So
my gosh.
You would love it.
I brought this just in case Ineeded to write down a note.
I figured like maybe he'll say somethingand I'll need to write it down.
(38:03):
So
Yeah, I love it.
You're so awesome.
Give my best to the entire Bates team.
Justin and Dylan can't, can'tgive them enough credit as well.
They are awesome people and we'll seeyou guys soon, but it's been a pleasure
and thank you for for being on the show,
Yeah.
Thanks Tommy.
I appreciate it.
Ready to take the next step?
(38:25):
Download our free Profitability Scorecardto quickly create your own baseline
financial assessment and uncover thefastest ways to improve your business.
Just go to McFarlinStanford.com/scorecardto get yours today To learn more about
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(38:48):
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See you next time on the Roots of Success.
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