Season 3 | Episode 16 - Assessment as a Shared Journey: Cultivating Partnerships with Families and Caregivers - Guest: Tisha Jones

Tisha Jones, Assessment as a Shared Journey: Cultivating Partnerships with Families & Caregivers

ROUNDING UP: SEASON 3 | EPISODE 16

Families and caregivers play an essential role in students’ success in school and in shaping their identities as learners. Therefore, establishing strong partnerships with families and caregivers is crucial for equitable teaching and learning. This episode is designed to help educators explore the importance of collaborating with families and caregivers and learn strategies for shifting to asset-based communication.

BIOGRAPHY

Tisha Jones is the senior manager of assessment at The Math Learning Center. Previously, Tisha taught math to elementary and middle school students as well as undergraduate and graduate math methods courses at Georgia State University.

TRANSCRIPT

Mike Wallus: As educators, we know that families and caregivers play an essential role in our students’ success at school. With that in mind, what are some of the ways we can establish strong partnerships with caregivers and communicate about students' progress in asset-based ways? We'll explore these questions with MLC’s [senior] assessment manager, Tisha Jones, on this episode of Rounding Up. 

Welcome back to the podcast, Tisha. I think you are our first guest to appear three times. We're really excited to talk to you about assessment and families and caregivers. 

Tisha Jones: I am always happy to talk to you, Mike, and I really love getting to share new ideas with people on your podcast. 

Mike: So, we've titled this episode “Assessment as a Shared Journey with Families & Caregivers,” and I feel like that title—especially the words “shared journey”—say a lot about how you hope educators approach this part of their practice. 

Tisha: Absolutely. 

Mike: So, I want to start by being explicit about how we at The Math Learning Center think about the purpose of assessment because I think a lot of the ideas and the practices and the suggestions that you're about to offer flow out of that way that we think about the purpose. 

Tisha: When we think about the purpose of assessment at The Math Learning Center, what sums it up best to me is that all assessment is formative, even if it's summative, which is a belief that you'll find in our Assessment Guide. And what that means is that assessment really is to drive learning. It's for the purpose of learning. So, it's not just to capture, “What did they learn?,” but it's, “What do they need?,” “How can we support kids?,” “How can we build on what they're learning?” over and over and over again. And so, there's no point where we're like, “OK, we've assessed it and now the learning of that is in the past.” We're always trying to build on what they're doing, what they've learned so far. 

Mike: You know, I've also heard you talk about the importance of an asset-focused approach to assessment. So, for folks who haven't heard us talk about this in the past, what does that mean, Tisha? 

Tisha: So that means starting with finding the things that the kids know how to do and what they understand instead of the alternative, which is looking for what they don't know, looking for the deficits in their thinking. We're looking at, “OK, here's the evidence for all the things that they can do,” and then we're looking to think about, “OK, what are their opportunities for growth?”

Mike: That sounds subtle, but it is so profound a shift in thinking about what is happening when we're assessing and what we're seeing from students. How do you think that change in perspective shifts the work of assess

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
As educators,
we know that families and caregiversplay an essential role in our student
success at school. With that in mind,
what are some of the ways we can establishstrong partnerships with caregivers
and communicate about students'progress and asset-based ways?
We'll explore these questions with MLCsAssessment manager Tisha Jones on this

(00:25):
episode of Rounding Up.
Welcome back to the podcast. Tisha,
I think you are our firstguest to appear three times.
We're really excited to talk to youabout assessment and families and
caregivers.
I am always happy to talk to you, Mike,

(00:45):
and I really love gettingto share new ideas with
people on your podcast.
So we've titled this episode assessmentas a Shared Journey with families
and caregivers, and I feellike that title, especially the words Shared Journey,
say a lot about how you hopeeducators approach this part of their

(01:06):
practice.
Absolutely.
So I want to start by being explicitabout how we at the Math Learning Center
think about the purpose of assessmentbecause I think a lot of the ideas and the
practices and the suggestions that you'reabout to offer flow out of that way
that we think about the purpose.
When we think about the purpose ofassessment at the Math Learning Center,

(01:28):
what sums it up best to meis that all assessment is
formative, even if it's summative,
which is a belief that you'llfind in our assessment guide.
And what that means is thatassessment really is to drive
learning. It's for thepurpose of learning.
So it's not just to capture what didthey learn, but it's what do they need?

(01:51):
How can we support kids?
How can we build on what they'relearning over and over and over again?
And so there's no pointwhere we're like, okay,
we've assessed it and now thelearning of that is in the past.
We're always trying to buildon what they're doing, what they've learned so far.
I've also heard you talk about theimportance of an asset focused approach to

(02:14):
assessment. So for folks who haven'theard us talk about this in the past,
what does that mean, Tisha?
So that means starting with findingthe things that the kids know how to do
and what they understandinstead of the alternative,
which is looking for what they don't know,
looking for the deficits in theirthinking. We're looking at, okay,

(02:38):
here's the evidence for allthe things that they can do.
And then we're lookingto think about, okay,
what are their opportunities for growth?
That sounds subtle,
but it is so profound a shift inthinking about what is happening when
we're assessing and whatwe're seeing from students.
How do you think that change inperspective shifts the work of

(03:00):
assessing, but also the work of teaching?
When I think about approachingassessment from an asset-based
perspective, finding the thingsthat kids know how to do,
the things that kids understand. One,
I am now on a mission tofind their brilliance.
I am just this brilliance detective.

(03:21):
I'm always looking for what is thatthing that this kid can shine at?
That's one and a different way ofthinking about it just to start with.
And then I think the other thingtoo is I feel like when you find the
things that they're doing,I can think about, okay,
what do I need to know?

(03:42):
What can I do for them next to supportthem in that next step of growth?
I think that sounds fairly simple,
but there's something very differentabout thinking about building from
something versus say,looking for what's broken.
For sure. And it also helpsbuild relationships, right?
If you approach any relationshipfrom a deficit perspective,

(04:04):
you're always focusing onthe things that are wrong.
And so if we're talking about buildingstronger relationships with kids,
coming from an asset-basedperspective helps in that area too.
That's a great pivot point because ifwe take this notion that the purpose of
assessment is to inform the waysthat we support student learning,
it really seems like that has amajor set of implications for how and

(04:28):
what and even why we would communicatewith families and caregivers.
So while I suspect there isn't ascript for the type of communication,
are there some essential components thatyou'd want to see in an asset focused
assessment conversation that an educatorwould have with a family or with their
child's caregivers?
Well, before thinking abouta singular conversation,

(04:51):
I want to back it up and think about
over the course of the school year,
and I think that when westart the communication,
it has to start beforethat first assessment.
It has to start before we'veseen a piece of kids' work.
We have to start buildingthose relationships with families and caregivers.
We need to invite them into this process.

(05:14):
We need to give them an opportunityto understand what we think about
assessment.
How are we approaching it when we sendthings home and they haven't heard
of things like proficiency ormeeting current expectations,
those are common words that you'llsee throughout the bridges assessment
materials. If parents haven't seen that,

(05:35):
if families and caregivers haven't heardfrom you on what that means for you in
your classroom at your school,then they have questions.
It feels unfamiliar. It feels like, wait,
what does this mean about howmy child is doing in your class?
And so we want to start this conversationfrom the very beginning of the school

(05:56):
year and continue it on continuously,
and it should be this open invitationfor them to participate in this process
too, for them to share what they'reseeing about their student at home
when they're talking about math or they'rehearing how their student is talking
about math.
We want to know those things becausethat informs how we approach the

(06:18):
instruction in class.
Let's talk about that because it reallystrikes me that what you are describing
in terms of the meaning ofproficiency or the meaning of
meeting expectations,
that language is likely fairlynew to families and caregivers.
And I think the other thing that strikesme is families and caregivers have

(06:39):
their own lived experience withassessment from when they were children,
perhaps with other children, andthat's generally a mixed bag At best.
Folks have this set of ideas about whatit means when the teacher contacts them
and what assessment means.
So I really hear what you're saying whenyou're talking about there's work that
educators need to do at the start ofthe year to set the stage for these

(07:02):
conversations. Let's try to geta little bit specific though.
What are some of the practices that you'dwant teachers to consider when they're
thinking about their communication?
So I think that startingat the very beginning of
the year, most schools do somesort of a curriculum night.
I would start by making sure thatassessment is a part of that conversation

(07:26):
and making sure thatyou're explaining what
assessment means to you.Why are you assessing?
What are the differentways that you're assessing?
What are some things thatthey might see coming home?
Are they going to see feedback? Are theygoing to see scores from assessments?
But how were you communicating progress?
How do they know howtheir student is doing?

(07:48):
And then also that invitation right thenand there to be a part of this process,
to hear from them to heartheir concerns or their ideas
around feedback or the thingsthat they've got questions about.
I would also suggest thatreally working hard to have
that asset based lens apply toparents and families and caregivers.

(08:11):
I know that I have been that parent,
that was the last one to sign upfor the parent teacher conferences,
and I'm sending the apologetic emailand I'm begging for a special time slot.
So it didn't mean that Ididn't care about my kids.
It didn't mean that I didn't care aboutwhat they were doing. I was swamped.
And so I think we want to keepfinding that asset-based lens for

(08:35):
parents and caregivers in the sameway that we do for the students.
And then making sure thatyou're giving them good news,
not just bad news.
And then making sure when you're sendingany communication about how a student
is doing, try to be concreteabout what you're seeing, right?
So trying to say,

(08:57):
these are the things where Isee your child's strengths.
These are the strengths thatI'm seeing from your student,
and these are the areas wherewe're working on to grow,
and this is what we'redoing here at school,
and this is what you cando to support them at home.
I was really struck by apiece of what you said, Tisha,
when you really made the case fornot assuming that the picture that

(09:20):
you have in your mind as an educatoris clear for families when it comes to
assessment. So really being transparentabout how you think about assessment,
why you're assessing,
and the cadence of when parents orfamilies or caregivers could expect to
hear from you and whatthey could expect as well.

(09:41):
I know for a fact that if my teachercalled my family when I was a
kid,
generally there was a look that cameacross their face when they answered the
phone. And even if it was good news,
they didn't think it was good news atthe front end of that conversation.
I've been there, I had my son'sfifth grade heater call me last year,
and I was like, what is this?

(10:05):
One of the things that I want to talkabout before we finished this conversation
is homework. I want to talk a littlebit about the purpose of homework.
We're having this conversation in thecontext of Bridges and mathematics,
which is the curriculum that theMath Learning Center publishes.
So while we can't talk about howall folks think about homework,

(10:26):
we can talk about the stance thatwe take when it comes to homework,
what its purpose is,
how we imagine families and caregiverscan engage with their students around it.
Can you talk a little bit aboutour perspective on homework,
how we think about its value,how we think about its purpose,
and then we can dig a little bitinto what it might look like at home.

(10:46):
But let's start with purpose and intent.
So we definitely recognize that there are
lots of different ideas about homework,
and I think that shows in how we'vestructured homework through our bridges
units.
Most of the time it's set up so thatthere's a homework that goes with

(11:08):
every other session,but it's still optional.
So there's no formalexpectation in our curriculum
that homework is given ona nightly basis or even
on an every other night basis.
We really have left that up to theschools to determine what is best
practice for their population.

(11:29):
And I think that is actually what'sreally the most important thing,
is understanding the families and
caregivers and the situations thatare in your building and making
determinations about homeworkthat makes sense for the
students that you're serving.
And so I think we've sethomework up in a way that makes

(11:54):
it so that it's easy forschools to make those decisions.
One of the things that I'mthinking about is that, again,
I'm going to be autobiographicalwhen I was a kid, homework went back,
it was graded and it actually countedtoward my grade at the end of the semester
or the quarter or what have you.
And I guess I wonder if a school or adistrict chose to not go about that to

(12:17):
not have homework necessarily be graded.
I wonder if some families and caregiversmight wonder what's the purpose?
I think we know that there can bea productive and important purpose,
even if educators aren't grading homeworkand adding it to a percentage that is
somehow determining students' gradesthat it can actually still have purpose.

(12:38):
How do you think about the purpose ofhomework regardless of whether it's graded
or not?
So first off,
I would just like to advocatenot grading homework if I
can.
You certainly can. Yeah,let's talk about that.
I think that one,
if we're talking aboutthis idea of putting this

(12:59):
score into an average gradeor this percentage grade,
I think that this is somethingthat has so many different
circumstances for kids at home.
You have some students whoget lots and lots of help.
You get some students who donot have help available to them.

(13:19):
Another experience that has beenvery common when I was teaching
that I would get messages where Iwas like, we were doing homework.
The kid was in tears, I was in tears.
This was just reallyhard. And that's just not,
I don't ever want that scenariofor any student, for any family,

(13:42):
for any caregiver, for anybodytrying to support a child at home.
I used to tell them,
if you are getting to the pointwhere it's that level of frustration,
please just stop and send me amessage, write it on the homework.
Just communicate something that thiswas too hard because that's information
now that I can use. And so for me,

(14:03):
I think about that homework can be anopportunity for students to practice some
skills and concepts and thingsthat they've learned at home.
It's an opportunity for parents, families,
caregivers to see some of the thingsthat the kids are working on at school.
What do you think ismeaningful for homework?
And I have kind of two bits to that.

(14:24):
What do you think ismeaningful for the child?
And then what do you think might bemeaningful for the interaction between the
child and their family or caregiver?What's the best case for homework?
When you imagine a successfulor a productive or a
meaningful experience with homeworkat home between child and family and

(14:45):
caregiver, what's that look like?
Well, one of the things thatI've heard families say is,
I don't know how to helpmy child with blank.
So then I think it is, well,
how do we support families and caregiversin knowing what do we do with homework
when we don't know how to tellthem what to do? So to me,

(15:05):
it's about how can we restructurethe homework experience so that
it's not this,
I have to tell you how to do itso you can get the right answer.
So you can get the grade, but it's like,how can I get at more of your thinking?
How can I understand then whatis happening or what you do know?
So we can't get to the answer. Okay,

(15:28):
so tell me about what you do knowand how can we build from there?
How can we build understanding?
And that way it maybe will take someof the pressure off of families and
caregivers to help theirchild get to the right answer.
What hits me is we've really come fullcircle with that last statement you made

(15:49):
because you could conceivablyhave a student who really clearly
understands a particular problemthat might be a piece of homework,
that might have some ideasthat are on the right track,
but ultimately perhaps doesn't getto a fully clear answer that is
perfect. And you might have a studentwho at a certain point in time,

(16:10):
maybe the context or the problemitself is profoundly challenging.
And in all of those cases, the question,
tell me what you do know or tellme what you're thinking is still an
opportunity to draw out the student'sideas and to focus on the assets.
Even if the work as you described it,
is to get them to think about what arethe questions that are really causing

(16:34):
me to feel stuck,
that is a productive move for a familyand a caregiver and a student to engage
in to kind of wonder aboutwhat's going on here.
That's making me feel stuckbecause then as you said,
all assessment is formative.
That homework that comes back isfunctioning as a formative assessment,

(16:56):
and it allows you to thinkabout your next moves,
how you build on what the student knows,
or even how you build on the questionsthat the student is bringing to you.
And that's such a great point too,
is there's really morevalue in them coming
back with an incomplete assignmentor there's, I don't know,

(17:17):
maybe more value is notthe right way to say it,
but there is value in kids comingback with an incomplete assignment or
an attempted assignment,
but they weren't sure how to getthrough all the problems as opposed to
a parent who has told their student whatto do to get through all of the right
answers. And so now theyhave all these right answers,

(17:37):
but it doesn't really giveyou a clear picture of what
that student actually does understand.
So I'd much rather have a student attemptthe homework and stop because they
got too stuck because nowI know that then having a
family or a caregiver, somebodyworking with that student,

(17:58):
feel like if they don't have all ofthe right answers, then it's a problem.
I think that's really great guidance bothfor teachers as they're trying to set
expectations and betransparent with families,
but also I think it takes that pressureoff of families or caregivers who
feel like their work when homeworkshows up, is to get to a right answer.

(18:20):
It just feels like a much more healthyrelationship with homework and a much
more healthy way to thinkabout the value that it has.
Well, in truth, it's a healthierrelationship with math overall, right?
That math is a process. It's not just,
the value is not in just thisone right answer or this paper

(18:41):
of right answers, but it's really inhow do we deepen our understanding?
How do we help students deepen theirunderstanding and have this more positive
relationship with math?
And I think that creating thesehomework struggles between families and
caregivers and the children doesnot support that end goal of having
a more positive relationshipwith math overall.

(19:03):
Which is a really important part ofwhat we're looking for in a child's
elementary experience.
Absolutely.
I think that's a greatplace to stop. Tisha Jones,
thank you so much for joining us. Wewould love to have you back at some time.
It has been a pleasure talking with you.
It's been great talking to you too, Mike.
This podcast is brought to you by theMath Learning Center and the Meyer Math

(19:26):
Foundation dedicated to inspiring andenabling all individuals to discover
and develop their mathematicalconfidence and ability.