May 14, 2025 • 71 mins
In this episode of Scene N Nerd, Sarah and Will dive into the latest developments from "The Last of Us" Season 2, Episode 5, titled "Feel Her Love." They explore the emotional weight of Ellie's choices as she grapples with the consequences of her quest for justice, all while navigating the dangerous landscape of Seattle. The hosts dissect the cold open that sets the tone for the episode, delving into the complexities of sacrifice and the harsh realities faced by the characters.
As they transition to the new episodes of "Andor," Sarah and Will discuss the Ghorman event and its impact on the characters, particularly Syril and Dedra. They highlight the moral dilemmas presented within the Empire's machinations and the nuanced portrayals of the characters, emphasizing the show's ability to create depth in its villains. The hosts analyze how the stakes have risen for Cassian and the sacrifices he and others must make for the rebellion.
With thoughtful insights and engaging discussions, this episode encourages listeners to reflect on the intricate storytelling and character arcs that define both series.
0:00 Intro
1:30 Quick News Items for Daredevil: Born Again s2, Fallout s2, and more.
11:23 "The Last of Us" Season 2 Episode 5 "Feel Her Love" discussion
37:57 "Andor" Episodes 7-9 review and analysis
Connect with us! Follow us on X, formerly Twitter, @SceneNNerd, Bluesky @SceneNNerd.bsky.social, Facebook, Instagram, and Threads @scene_n_nerd. Check out our website at www.scenennerdpodcast.com. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave us a rating and a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast fix!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Sarah (00:00):
Foreign
(00:12):
nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as
always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing tonight,
Will?
>> Will (00:18):
Doing very well, Sarah. Happy Tuesday. Hope you're
doing well.
>> Sarah (00:22):
Happy Tuesday indeed. I am doing
fine. I am here. We're making
our way through May.
>> Will (00:31):
Yeah, Making our way through May.
Yeah. Making our way through May. It's of course we
got the, the Last of Us tonight that we're talking
about, of course, andor which season two, episode
seven through nine, which I think everybody's talked about, but hopefully we
can add our, our unique spin to it. I know
as we were, we were talking before you had share some
(00:51):
thoughts about the pivotal scenes
in episode eight, but we'll, we'll get into that, and
how commercials don't help.
But but yeah, but I, I, I, before we got to that, I did have
some quick note news notes that we haven't, haven't had a news
segment last week. so wanted to hit a couple things
that, that dropped
(01:12):
this week if, if you're.
>> Sarah (01:15):
Yeah, cool. Oh, the way you
said it, I thought you were gonna go into it, so that's why I was
like waiting.
>> Will (01:22):
No, no. Ah, yeah, see. Yeah, we have
some news this week that we have the
upfronts that the every. I
guess it's been a while since they've had really, really big
upfronts. But it's the big advertising,
thing that all the networks and now streamers put on as
far as, sharing, you know, the upcoming
(01:43):
items for the next, season. And
so, the first one, the big one today that we got was
news that Criston, Ritter is going to be
returning to the
Marvel Universe and Daredevil Born Again Season
two. She's going to be, which
premieres in March. I think they're, I think
they're, I think they, I think they have finished production as far
(02:06):
as filming. So I guess it's in post now. But yeah, we got
that news today. And then also
another quick item, Fallout, which was all
in Amazon's presentation. we got
word that this show has been renewed
for a third season and also
that season two will be dropping on the
(02:27):
platform in December of this year.
So looking forward to seeing that. also
Amazon dropped word, a little teaser
for the Nicholas Cage Spider man noir,
show, which that character of course was in the comics, but
also most recently we saw him in
the first Spider Verse film and
(02:49):
yeah, and so basically this is going to be a live action
show, that will star Nicholas Cage as the aging
superhero set in the 1930s. And
he's as he tries to grapple with his, his,
his life as a, the one and only superhero
in, in 1930s New York. So that
show's going to be dropping next year
(03:11):
first on the MGM plus platform
and then it will then air the
next day on Amazon Prime. So
that's the update with Spider, man
noir, or I guess Spider Noir I think is going to be the
title of that show. also got word that
the Bear season four is going to be returning on the Hulu
(03:31):
presentation today, coming June
25th and they will be dropping all
episodes at once. So I'll get around to them right before
season five premieres.
And this wasn't part of the upfronts, but
the Peacemaker Season 2 trailer dropped I
guess, I think over the weekend. I
(03:52):
think it was. I haven't watched it actually, but I know a lot of
people have. and
>> Sarah (03:58):
You haven't watched it. You put it on the rundown.
You put it on the rundown. So I got on
early and I saw it and I was like, oh
well, Will's gonna ask me if I watched it, so I
might as well. I watched one minute of the two minute trailer. I,
I saw too much. I saw too much. Okay,
I, I just, I,
(04:21):
within, within 10 seconds I was like telling
myself, abort, abort. Like,
but yeah, I,
I'm going to see it. So I don't, I
honestly don't want to know what's
going on. Like, I really don't. And,
and also like, I will tell
(04:42):
you like the clear, clear tie
ins with whatever happens in Superman.
So remember like a few months ago
when there was this whole Chair saga
and people pointed out that even though they
spent like half a day just watching trail,
chairs with their names be revealed, they
(05:03):
were like pointing out how the MCU is basically
spoiling the state fakes of all the movies that
are in between Doomsday.
well, in my mind I'm like, well, having watched
one minute of the Peacemaker trailer,
basically DC just did the same thing.
They kind of just did the same thing
(05:26):
in a way with a few of their ancillary characters
who they're introducing in Superman.
So I mean, granted I've already,
I've already pretty much shit on this Superman
marketing campaign already because I feel like I've Seen
the whole movie at least twice now. but
yeah, I just, I can't,
(05:47):
I, I just. Why? Two
minutes? It's a TV show. Yeah.
And, and it's a TV show that already has an
audience. And you know you're gonna get more
with Superman. And you also know
that people like, still have yet to see
Superman. So I think there could have been
(06:08):
some much more interesting and
strategic, marketing for
both properties. but then
again, I mean, as long as I don't
think anything spoiled the most important
thing, which is the opening title sequence of
Peace Season 2.
>> Will (06:27):
That's the, that's the important thing. Just don't
spoil the opening. But anything else.
Yeah, I, I don't need to see it because I'm
already, I'm already locked in and invested. And so,
speaking of Superman, there will
be a, apparently a new trailer
tomorrow. we're recording Tuesday night. So
(06:48):
on, on Wednesday, the
14th of, of May, we will get a,
a new Superman trailer. This, is the teaser poster that
I think they dropped, either yesterday or today,
for the, And I think they did a teaser. They did a teaser.
A teaser for the trailer. To
your point about marketing, but, I,
I, I am not going to watch it, but I just wanted to share
(07:11):
for our, for our, our listeners
that if you do want to watch the
trailer, if you're listening to our podcast tomorrow
when we, or tonight as we, after we drop it,
Superman, trailer is coming. And,
you will be able to, if you want to watch it, you
can, but don't come. I mean, I'll just be
(07:33):
completely, transparent. We, we will. Neither one of
us will probably watch it and just enjoy it when it comes in
July.
>> Sarah (07:39):
Yeah, we're, we're on a ban of all things
Superman until July. Like,
I, I, I really think, like
to go back to our conversation last week,
at least 50 of why I felt
the way I did about Thunderbolts was because
I knew very minimal information.
(08:00):
I had seen very minimal
footage. Maybe I should have led with that. Like,
I'd watched one trailer about
like the first trailer that came out, and that
was like a good six months, five months ahead of
time, and then didn't really see anything
else. So like, I, I
(08:21):
want to preserve that. However, I will
warn you, it's already lost on
Superman. I've already seen too much.
I already feel like I've failed. And I'm pretty
sure DC is going to come after me and I'm going to be
bombarded with trail of that thing.
And I'm getting close with Fantastic Four, you
(08:42):
know. Yeah,
yeah, but whatever.
>> Will (08:46):
Yeah, but speaking of that. So they are, like,
bombarding us with trailers for
things that we are most likely going to go see.
But then I'm still waiting for
the Ironheart trailer for a show
that's supposed to be dropping in June, but
you know that. But I'm still. I mean, it's gotten to the
(09:07):
place now where fans are like,
yeah, where is. Where is it? And. And, you know, and fans,
are doing their own promotion for this show because
Disney and Marvel are just falling down. I mean, it's
just like almost a month away. And I think we
may m. Have gotten a teaser for it, but I don't even
(09:28):
recall that. Maybe a poster or something. But. Yeah,
so, you know, so I'm, kind of
like, what's up, y' all? I mean,
really?
>> Sarah (09:37):
Yeah, it's not a
good sign if they're not putting marketing towards
a property like that.
>> Will (09:45):
It.
>> Sarah (09:45):
It bodes that they don't have faith in that
property and they just want people
to free, like, they have to release it because they put
all that money into it. but they.
They also don't. But maybe it's
also something else is going on and it'll get
moved, and that's why they're not doing
marketing right now, because they already know that they have
(10:08):
to move it for a different reason or a different purpose.
>> Will (10:10):
But.
>> Sarah (10:11):
Yeah, but that's a. That's a good point. That, like,
even though we get bombarded by some things, there are
other things where it's just like, why are you waiting
so long? I mean.
>> Will (10:22):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you know, and not
to get all conspiracy bro theory or whatever, but as I has
a black female lead, are they, like, worried about the W police
coming after them? Or. I mean, what is it? I mean, I just.
It's just. I'm just. I'm. I'm,
befuddled by why there's. There hasn't been
any. Hardly anything about this
show.
>> Sarah (10:44):
So. Yeah, well, Well, we. We
will. In time. The cards
will play out.
But that brings us to the first big topic of
tonight. The Last of Us. Season two, Episode five,
Feel Her Love. The. The
WLF makes a dangerous discovery at a great
(11:04):
cost. Later, Ellie must decide whether to continue with
her plan and risk putting Dina in danger
or give up on her quest for justice.
that's actually a very good summary of this episode, I have to say.
I just. I want to Start with the Cold Open again. Because I
find that the way they're
utilizing the Cold opens are really,
(11:26):
interesting mainly because
it takes, it takes a bit for you to
figure out that this isn't a flashback.
This is the current day. we. We
see the same WLF member
who we saw in the Cold Open last
week. And she at the time
(11:47):
was basically inducting
Isaac into the fold. but
now we see her completely military out
in the hospital and questioning one of the
officers. And we get told a
story about the hospital and
the lower levels of the hospital and
(12:07):
the fact that that This
officer had to lock her men
down there because it was in
the air. And
>> Will (12:19):
They.
>> Sarah (12:19):
They barricaded the lower levels. And,
And I really like the whole. Like at the
beginning of the conversation she
mentions what is Leon. And
then by the end of the conversation,
says. Says I'm sorry about your son.
>> Will (12:39):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (12:39):
And. And like, like I, that's. It's great
dialogue because it's not direct,
but it's also set up that you can infer
that Leon was her son. So
she, she had to
sacrifice her son for the good of
the own. And her son even wanted her to do that,
(13:00):
based on what was going down, in
those lower levels. But I guess to
start us off. Will, what. What were your thoughts
about this whole cold open sequence?
>> Will (13:12):
Cold open sequence work worked again
for me. I think that's one of the,
One of the strengths of this show. especially
now that we're postal and
Cold opens in the past as well. But
this last week and this week opening that
way just definitely does for me.
(13:34):
It, it frames
the episode in a way that
it leads for intrigue and wondering. Like,
especially as someone who hasn't played the game,
it, it helps sort of,
sort of set the table for like, okay,
what's going to be the, the threat
(13:55):
or, or. Or that
as we are now in Seattle.
What are, what are some of the things that these characters are going to be having
to deal with? And so, you know, this,
this was. I do. I do know that the,
you know, quarter steps in the game
transmission was different, was. Was
(14:17):
airborne from the get. whereas they adapt. When they adapted the
tv, they did change it to make. Make it first
a bite. Now they have like
ratcheted up the. The threat of the quarter
steps by being an airborne transmission.
But so, so to me that was just like,
oh, okay, here, here.
Here's another challenge that, that our characters are going to have to face,
(14:39):
sort of like, you know, I guess, and I guess it is sort of like a video
game in that respect where, you know, as you, as you progress in
the game, different thing, different challenges
do come come up. So sort of
TV Watcher is sort of that same kind of thing as well.
>> Sarah (14:54):
Yeah, yeah. It's also just
good world building we have going
on. I mean, between both of these cold opens this
week and last week have to do with the WLF
and nothing to do with Jackson, nothing to do
with Ellie, Joel, none of that. It's
honestly something that also sticks out to me with
(15:15):
these cold opens that they have nothing to do with Abby.
I mean, arguably, just because she's
currently a member of the wlf, they don't talk
about her. She's not, she's not seen,
we haven't seen her in episodes.
And yet we, we are in Seattle and,
and we just, like Ellie and Dina
(15:36):
are also piecing together
what exactly is happening there. And
so we, we've got in the
breadcrumbs and we see it fleshed out even
more here in this episode.
The, the, the battle, the war that's
going on between the, I want to say
scars, but that's not technically their name, the
(15:58):
Seraphites and, and the
wlf. And, and
now also with this cold open, it's also
like they're not just fighting each other. Remember,
they, they, they still
got infected and they got, they got,
clickers, they have stalkers. All,
all sorts of the different versions,
(16:20):
that are coming to life are, are
definitely found in Seattle. So
while this war between living
people still exists as well. So
it, you, you're spot on with like the different
levels of a game. That's what we're
experiencing. And, and we, and
(16:40):
Ellie and Dina are even experiencing that
as they figure out a way to get to the hospital.
And well, Dina does
because, Ellie is not school oriented.
Not school oriented. I really like that. And,
and which brings me to one of my first points of this
(17:00):
episode. Isabella Merced,
where have you been? And also I'm so glad
you've arrived because my God,
between this and I know you're going to be in Superman,
which we just talked about and based on
the one minute I saw, Peacemaker, FYI,
are going to be in that too. But
(17:22):
you are having a year. And to start it off
like I, I, her performance
is just so good this season
that I don't want to say it's carrying
the show because the show is really good as a
whole, but it is a
definite highlight for me so far.
>> Will (17:43):
Yeah. Yeah, I. I agree. that. That.
Honestly, that was so. I. I have to be honest. I
was Feel this episode after the
cold open, and I like. I
like the opening moments there with Ellie and. And.
And Dina with the triangulation and.
And some of the. You know, there were some
(18:03):
good moments, but her.
Her. And it has. It has nothing to do with performances because. And
that's why I want to make it very clear. Her performance,
whenever she was talking, for example, jumping ahead
to when they were walking down there and. And she. She
was sharing her. Her. Her backstory as
far as the who. The
(18:24):
first person she killed.
>> Sarah (18:27):
Yeah.
>> Will (18:28):
Yeah. I mean, that worked. I mean
that her performance really took just
a ex. Exposition dump and.
And made it like I was dialed
in.
>> Sarah (18:40):
Yeah.
>> Will (18:41):
but the rest of the episode, I don't know, it just,
It was. It felt empty to me in some.
Some regards where usually I feel like there's a tension
or. Or just escal.
Escalation of things, but it just. I don't know. I
just. It just. Just felt very
artif. Hollow for. For whatever reason,
(19:02):
but it's not close to the performances.
>> Sarah (19:05):
It's interesting you say that because I will be honest.
Like, after first watching it, like,
that night, I was like, this is probably one of the
weaker episodes. But the more I think about
this episode, the more
I actually think that
there are some. There
(19:26):
are some. They. They are doing things
for. With, like, intention.
And. And I think that.
I don't think it's the best in any way, shape or
form, but I do think
that it's not. It's not
awful. Hollow might be a good word for it.
(19:47):
It might just be like. Like
there. Because we have yet to
see Ellie finally meet.
Meet Abby again.
We're just. We're just like, okay, it's day two in
Seattle, and. And I'm just gonna call
(20:07):
this out. I think it was very
noticeable, more so in. Than any other
episode I've seen of this series. How
convenient things were.
Yeah, like, they.
Convenient. Like Jesse shows up
at the most convenient time to
stop the stalker from,
(20:29):
killing Ellie. and then all
of the other ones as well from. Because there was
like, maybe right around 10 in there
with them. I don't know. But between
that, then they managed to conveniently get into
the park where. Where they witness
what we actually witness.
(20:50):
how. How the. How the Seraphites
treat the WLF members. I mean, we saw the
aftermath of it, but to actually see the
blade and the Hanging and how that all works.
It was like, whoa.
Yeah, yeah, whoa. But, but then,
but then they conveniently escape from m. Them
(21:10):
as well because they realize like, and
then, and, and then they have to
separate and Ellie conveniently
finds her. So I, I agree. Like,
to me that was one of the reasons why
I've. This episode I don't
think works as well as it should or could
have is because of all of the plot
(21:32):
conveniences that occur.
>> Will (21:34):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean this is the first time. I mean,
yes, there's always plot armor in these shows,
but to me it just really just felt very
apparent this week. And you're right. I mean it's not that. I'm not saying
it's a bad episode, but,
but in when I'm, when I'm measuring it
against other. Within the, within the
(21:54):
live action version of the the Last of Us,
this just to me. This just to me just felt like it was.
And, and it was
just sort of a set piece. It was
just getting us from A to B to C.
And, and I, I don't know.
Yeah, kind of. I mean there's some, there's some. They explore some things. Like,
(22:17):
to your, to your point, one of the reasons why the Cold Open
works so well is because we
do have, we do have a parent who is,
who is making that
choice that Joel and Ellie had
before. So as far as
choosing the good of the mini versus to go to the one.
So whenever, you know, so
(22:40):
whenever those things were happening, I was
rocking with the show. That was where I, Even in this episode
I was like, I'm, I'm dialed in.
But then, but then the stuff
in the. Like I said, when the clickers,
the. I guess when Ellie and
Dina were in the. The smart. The
stalkers were in the, in the warehouse and stuff,
(23:02):
it just like I felt like, okay,
we saw. Yeah. I don't know, it just, it just felt
repetitive at this point.
>> Sarah (23:10):
Yeah. Just felt
like another,
another scene to show how
our two lead characters, our two
heroes, are. Are just
finding like getting themselves put in these
worst situations and will conveniently get out of
(23:30):
them. Like we. That's not, that's
not what this show is about. This show needs. There needs to
be more human conflict. I mean some of
the. What was it like episode three
this season? We didn't see an infected at all. And I
was like, this is great. This is great. But now between
this sequence and the sequence last week with the
(23:51):
train, it's like, okay, so how
many times will Dina and Ellie
figure out a plan to get from point A to
point B, but have to go through an area that
WLF is not protecting for an
obvious reason.
>> Will (24:07):
Exactly.
>> Sarah (24:08):
Like, I, I, completely agree with you,
like, to that extent that this, this is
a very. And, and why I
say I can't say for sure that this
is about getting from point A to point B, because they
backtrack because they, they're just
gonna end up back at the theater at the end of
(24:28):
this. I mean, who knows what Nora
ends up telling her? because she's
dead. Either way. I mean, in one way,
and, and honestly, either way is agony,
arguably. So, so because
the core steps and, that actress,
you know, if you're gonna go out, you might as well go out
(24:50):
like that. I, I thought she did a good job
of, of initially
trying to, like, say, I agree
that was awful. I don't think you should have seen
it. And then when she does the whole,
like, yeah, but Joel, got what he deserved. It was like.
And, and I like it because of Bella's
(25:11):
reaction. M. Because, you
see, Bella's reaction means
she fell for it just the
way I think. I think some of the, like,
viewers were falling for it too. Was just like,
was like, okay, okay. But then
that flip, and it catches her so off guard, she
doesn't even shoot her. And in time. And
(25:33):
then that leads to the chase down to level
B2, which we'd already known
was where all of the cordyceps were. But,
But I will. As cool as it was to
see Ellie go full, full
murderer, for lack of a better word,
torturer. I,
(25:54):
I, I did leave this, this episode
thinking to myself, are they gonna explain
how Ellie will conveniently escape the
hospital from
that place, to
go to the theater, return back to
the theater, which she knows is where Jesse
(26:14):
took Dina, and they're meeting up with,
Tommy.
>> Will (26:18):
Right, right.
>> Sarah (26:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's,
Yeah. I, and I also, I'm just gonna say I kind
of wish it was Tommy and not Jesse. I kind
of wish it was Tommy. Not just because I
was. I, I, I, want to see
Tommy. Like,
I, I, we haven't explored too much
(26:39):
of his feelings about all of this. Right, right.
>> Will (26:43):
Right.
>> Sarah (26:44):
So, so we're, we're headed into
episodes. Episode, ah, seven.
And, and that's the penultimate episode of the season.
And yet we have not spent a lot of time with
Tommy and, and he
arguably has is just as many
complex emotions about the loss of his brother
as Ellie, if not more so, because
(27:06):
of the Whole town situation and,
and his. His complex
relationship with Joel from the get go. So.
So I. I don't know, going into next week,
which I inadvertently saw a
thumbnail. So, I'm. I can't. I'm pretty
suspicious that next week will be a full on flashback
(27:26):
episode. I'm just saying.
>> Will (27:28):
Yeah, yeah,
yeah, we got the ending, of course, and you know. But
yeah, I. I saw. Yeah, I think. I don't know if I
watched the, Did I watch? No, I did not. But I. I have
seen some. Seen a few still photos and
yeah, it's flashback. Yeah.
>> Sarah (27:45):
Yeah. So.
>> Will (27:46):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (27:47):
So I don't know when we're gonna get Tommy
present day is what I'm. What I'm
saying. But, Yeah,
so, I mean, I
mean really, I just kind
of marathon ran through everything
that happened and
I. I mean, unless there was anything else.
(28:10):
I mean, you did raise a good point about the col.
Opening, like the sac. A parent
sacrificing their child for the
better of others. I don't know if you
intentionally said it or not, but you did say that
like Joel and Ellie had that choice.
Ellie did not have a choice.
>> Will (28:29):
No, no, no, no, no, no.
I guess I may zip through to what I was saying. The
Joel. The choice that Joel had with. With
Ellie is what I'm saying.
>> Sarah (28:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The choice Jewel made for
Ellie. that. That is, what the record
shows. yeah. So thanks.
And yeah,
>> Will (28:54):
Yeah, but I mean, really, like I said, it was. It was. It was.
It was m. Again, when I say it left
me hollow. Left me kind of me. It's
just. I'm, judging it against everything else in the last of us. And there's
plenty. There's. There's like
we. As we just discussed. I mean, there's good
moments where they do get into the.
(29:15):
The More into the. The choice. And
then of course, you know, Ellie just going full
on ballistic, to, you know,
with. With torches, torturing,
Nora before. You know.
You know, I guess it was one of those things just like I'm gonna get
the answer or I'm, just gonna draw this out like you guys did with
(29:36):
Joel.
>> Sarah (29:36):
Exactly. Yeah.
>> Will (29:38):
Yeah. So. Yeah. So not very sympathetic
character at this point, but you know, it's.
But you can understand, you know, it goes. It does get to
the discussion that Elliot and. And Dina had as they.
As they were walking as far as like justice
and revenge and all that kind of stuff. So they're, you know, so there were the
themes of what we have dealt with all,
(29:58):
all season. But, but, you know, but
like I said, I think, you know, it was the short. I think it was the
shortest episode for the season, so I think it did what
it needed to do. And we'll get the, we'll go to
the, flashback episode next week.
The penultimate. Yeah. I will say one thing, though. I think
(30:20):
we're now a few episodes in,
with Pedro not being on the show.
And it,
I didn't. How does. I don't want to.
It's, it is. It is.
Thankfully, Isabella Merced is just
killing it. Bella's killing it. But, but
(30:42):
I do. And you know, I think a few weeks back I was like, I felt
like this was almost like a second pilot
when we were discussing the, the post Joel world
and, and, and some, you know, so now that we're a few
episodes in, I, I, I do go
back to that comment and say, and, and you know, it's,
yes, it's the same show and
(31:04):
maybe pilot's not the right word, but I do feel like it's
like, it is like a reset into another chapter
of, of, of, clearly it's another chapter,
for this story. And, and so I, so
as still trying to get myself
oriented around that.
>> Sarah (31:21):
So you still m. You miss Pedro and
think that, his absence has, has left
like a big, a big, ah,
hole in this for me.
>> Will (31:32):
It does.
>> Sarah (31:34):
Yeah. I can, it's, it's hard for me
to say for, for sure. If,
I, I will say that I
think. Hey, hey, hey.
I, if, if you're not gonna go there, I will go there.
I honestly, I don't have as big of
a problem with Pedro not being around as
(31:55):
I do with. I think people are giving, Bella
Ramsey a bit too much credit.
I don't think she's as good this season as she
was last season. M.
So, So I guess I could make the argument
that people saying that this
season is not as good because
(32:15):
Pedro gets killed off in episode two.
Well, I think what they're missing is
Bella works really good with Pedro.
I think that's, and even though I
will say the chemistry between Ellie and
Dina, really good. Really
good. But that's not what this show is about
(32:36):
in some moments.
>> Will (32:38):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (32:41):
So I, I just, I, I, I
feel like people are giving her a
bit too much credit. And I don't
like, even in this episode, I, I gave her one
shout out, but by the end of it,
she, she's, she's too dead in the eyes
sometimes. Like and that's what gets
(33:01):
me is where I, I love actors
who I can see their emotions play out in the
eyes, and for whatever reason, she
is too dead in there, where
I just, I'm just like, I don't
know how you're feeling, but this is how you're
behaving, which, in one episode it's being a
(33:22):
complete brat. In another episode, she's a complete liar.
So, So I don't. I
don't know. but, but yeah, I, I.
And, and I will. I'm just gonna put this out
here. No, I've never played the game. We all know this. But
I have seen all the couch cutscenes. and I do know
what happens, and I do have fondness for the story.
(33:43):
Overall. Both. Both, Game One and Game
Two, everything that
viewers who have no experience with the game,
specifically Game Two, are going through with all
of their emotions is exactly what a lot of
people playing the game felt as well.
>> Will (34:01):
Yeah,
completely. Yeah, I think, yeah, that. That is
completely. Yeah. What I, what I think I am
feeling now as someone who's just experiencing this world via live
action. But, I have read a few. I have. I have
read some, things about it. Maybe they even mentioned that on.
Oh, no, they didn't mention on the official podcast. But,
(34:23):
but I have seen that sentiment out there. It's like, yeah, just welcome to whatever
all the game players felt, part two.
>> Sarah (34:28):
Yeah, yeah, it's just like. It's just like
Game of Thrones, when watching,
watching that show, a lot of people pointed out
like, oh, you finally got to that episode. Cool,
welcome. That was me 10 years ago.
So it's just the.
(34:50):
When you have characters and they,
they die, of course there's going to be
absence and holes and everything,
but it's just. It's
just if the characters that remain, if
you're still curious, which. And.
And that's another thing. They're very much focused on
Ellie and Dina. We've got a lot of led.
(35:12):
I already mentioned earlier, haven't seen Tommy.
No. No Abby sighting at all.
None. Like, we're learning
Isaac has been in two scenes,
maybe like three scenes. So there's a lot
of characters. And I think, I think to your point about
the whole, like, second pilot,
(35:35):
what we've gotten sent Post Joel
Post Jackson is a lot of world building.
The world of Seattle, this battle between
the WLF and the Seraphites.
And, And I think, I think that
it's a lot of setup.
that that is really going
(35:55):
to. Is all working towards. Not the end of the
season, but it's mainly working towards what will
happen in season three. Three.
>> Will (36:03):
Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Which is.
Which I think, is. I think as Bellamer said, this share some
info about when they're starting they're going to film that. So it might
be. It's going to be a moment before we get to season three.
Ah, maybe like 2027. So
based on schedules and everything else. So.
>> Sarah (36:21):
Well, yep.
I'm very curious about season three.
>> Will (36:28):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (36:29):
But. All right, well that leads us
into Andor episode seven,
Messenger. Episode eight. Where
are you? what is episode eight called?
>> Will (36:41):
Who.
>> Sarah (36:42):
Who are you? Who are you? Episode nine.
Welcome to the Rebellion.
now, now we already agreed we were gonna go
through this, plot point by plot point and
we're just going to start with the Gorman event.
so, so Will, what are your thoughts about this event?
>> Will (37:02):
you would have to start with Gorman, but I, I,
Well, I'll just step back just for. Well, I will
say this about the Gorman event.
So whenever we
learned that this block of episodes
was going to be the
(37:23):
episodes top
line was 2 BBY.
So fans of Star wars
who, who watch Rebels are familiar
with it. That that was the
year that Mon Motha
has leaves a speech as gives a speech
(37:44):
and leads to rebellion. and if
folks who watched that,
this, who watched Rebels is fully familiar with it.
I know as I, After I watched these three episodes,
I immediately went to watch
Rebels again because I wanted to see this
episode 318, called Secret Cargo.
(38:04):
and go. Go check it out if you are interested
in seeing what she says, whatever
she is finally
with the Rebellion, and pulling everyone together as
far as the Alliance. So
I, you know, so this episode, you know, so this
scene, the whole. Everything about it
(38:26):
basically fully.
It was as, as. As much as I
imagined how bad it was going to be.
They, it. It from the emotional
standpoint, from the The whole
setup with it. As far as an episode. You know,
we've, We've. The preceding episodes have like
(38:47):
built up to this as far as the arcs. As far as we
saw the, you know, I, I
laid, you know, they laid the foundation with the
With the propaganda machine as far as just talking about
the You know, the gore.
The gore. And And you know,
we see it in the beginning of this EP
(39:07):
with the media, you know, parroting
the. The. The scripted line as far as, you know,
the, the insurgencies and the people there
and all that, so all the things were just building up
to this moment. And then of course, both part of Gas and
Lutheran using their, you know, the
isb, having their plan to like, get this,
(39:27):
to set this moment off. And then of course Lutheran also
doing his things as far as wanting
the wanting this event to happen.
and even, you know, he would even been disappointed if like, by some
chance that Mon Motha was successful in the Senate to
like, you know, be able to get the
legislation passed to like,
(39:48):
get this, you know, get the Empire, you know,
off the, the, you know, setting
things in motion to, to mind the cocaine.
So everything about it was just
executed flawlessly. And,
and, and it had the, it had the, it had the, the
visceral brutality of it all
(40:08):
as far as, you know, as they were lining everything up and in
the prior episodes and then basically putting, putting the
barricades up and just basically marching these poor souls into a
kill box. And so everything about
that, it just worked
really well to the point where even after, after,
you know, watching episode eight, I, I, I,
(40:29):
I, I, you know, Cassian was leaving
and you know, shed that tear. I was, I was,
I was doing that too because I, I was truly,
truly
captured the, the emotions of, of the moment
and just the, these, the intensity of
it all. And, and I think it was just, and the reason
(40:49):
why it was such, was
set up so well that when it did
finally happen, it had the
emotional impact that, that, that it was intended
to have.
>> Sarah (41:11):
Yeah, yeah, it, it had an impact
on people.
>> Will (41:15):
Yeah, yeah, well, yeah,
I know, I know. Commercials messed up your,
your experience with it.
>> Sarah (41:22):
Well, I don't know if I, that wasn't the only
thing. I mean, I, I have Disney plus with
commercials, so it kept interrupting and every time
we'd go back to it, I would see their
cereal standing in the middle of the
whole scene, just looking out
bewildered and, and, and
shots firing, but never hitting Cyril
(41:45):
and then, or Cassie and just, just
like wandering around also never
getting shot. It's
like, like that's the thing with Star Wars.
The Stormtroopers and the Imperial,
they, the Empire, they are not good
marksmen because the main
(42:05):
characters never get shot.
The people who aren't. It never ceases.
So, so there was that. And also
I, I, I, I know what you're
saying about the setup and everything. Setup didn't work for
me mainly because I guess
I just, there
(42:27):
was something, how it all played out in the,
these episodes. I like a portion of it,
mainly the propaganda stuff about it. I
thought that was Pretty smart and an interesting angle,
but. But by the end, where even rye
lands, goes in there and. And is
looking around and it's like, oh, oh, well, this is a
(42:47):
trap. And he starts to warn people. Nobody takes
them seriously by that point. So I'm just
thinking to myself, I'm like, oh, you're all gonna die. So,
like, I'm just curious of how
Cassie is gonna get out of this the
whole time. Like, I don't know. There was something
about it, which. Which for me, who
(43:08):
doesn't know I haven't watched Rebels, you know, this.
I. I don't have that much stake in the whole
history here. I
also, in terms of
production, I thought it was really
weird or really strange how they
didn't play any. Any sort of
instrumental. Like, yes, you heard.
(43:30):
You heard the rioting calls. which also
changed halfway through. And then I was
just left trying to figure out, well, why didn't you lead with
that one? Like, your actual,
like, home language. That would have been more
like, I think more of a. Of
a, of a war cry. But no, they led
(43:51):
with a different one, which
led me down to different. I spiraled about for a different
reason that I'm not going to get into. But. But
yeah, there. There was stuff about it where it
didn't work. Now.
Now, the. The more interesting thing to me
is, of course, zero. And that's another
(44:11):
reason why I'm, mad, is because they
killed him, but they also killed him in the best way
possible. Like, I.
Like the. I. I've heard some people talk
about this.
>> Will (44:24):
The.
>> Sarah (44:24):
The fact that this character we have
spent so much time with for a
season and a half, and we've never really
liked him. We know he's working on the
wrong team, but he's able
to, in this. These three episodes too, or
these two episodes that he's a part of, at least
(44:45):
become woke and aware.
And then the disillusionment,
I. I thought was really interesting. And I also,
I. I honestly wish we had.
I'm sorry. You guys can say I'm cold. I am dead
inside. But honestly, I.
(45:06):
Again, I find what they do with the Empire
so much more interesting than anything else going on
in this show where I was.
I was taken aback when we even saw Deirdre
break down at the end of the episode.
Like, I was like, why aren't we spending more time
exploring what's going on there? I mean, you see
(45:26):
bits and pieces, and maybe that's why I like it where
it's not overdone. And overly
communicated what's going on? But,
but I was just like, okay,
so, so you, you do know what you're
doing is like, what's happening is bad.
Okay, okay, so what does that mean?
(45:47):
What does that mean for you as a character, though?
and the same thing with Cyril. So,
like, I just did a full stream of consciousness. I
hope, I hope y' all were able to follow everything I have
to say. but, but Will wasn't chiming
in to take me off course, so. No,
what I'm doing right now.
>> Will (46:07):
No, no, I, I, I was, I,
I think you're right in the sense to your
point. They,
what they did, and I think this is why I think it
works so well, is they do
make, they don't make these
just traditional mustache twirling villains.
>> Sarah (46:27):
Right?
>> Will (46:28):
And, and they really did show
the impact of this event. You
know, for example, with Cyril, you know, he, you
know, once he, you know, he, once he realized, like, you know, we
go back to episode seven,
and in episode eight, as far as just the set
pieces with the event, like, whenever
(46:50):
he is, you know, whenever he is on there,
and, and whenever
Cyril starts to question, dead real, like, he realized, he started
to realize, like, you're not telling me everything.
>> Sarah (47:01):
Right.
>> Will (47:02):
And, and, and so it's that realization, like,
oh, all this time, Cyril's like a very law and
order kind of guy. You know, he's, yeah, he, he.
And, and, and it's that pat. It
is, it's, but it, but he also
had, I guess his, his moral center of order
is not, you know, he starts to see
(47:23):
through the, you know, he's starting to see that he's being manipulated.
He's starting to see, like, wait a minute, they're doing these things.
And even the person that I love, that I'm in love
with also, it's been manipulated
me. And, and, you know,
he's been playing along all this time, but then he backs the questions. It's
like, you know, whenever she, like, says this, when Deadra
(47:44):
says, this year, good things are waiting for us, we will be for work
rewarded. And then he, like, question, he's like, for what?
What have we accomplished?
>> Sarah (47:51):
Yeah.
>> Will (47:51):
And so, yeah, so, so
to your point, why. That's why that
storyline is working and it's working for you,
is because they're making them fully realized
people instead of just like mustache
villains who are just evil for evil's sake.
>> Sarah (48:08):
Right, right. Which, which they showed with the
other members.
>> Will (48:14):
Oh, yeah. Oh, Captain Kaido. Yeah. I mean, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (48:20):
And it was even more highlighted, I think, in
the, In the next episode, welcome to the
Rebellion. Because, I mean, I
pointed out all the conveniences that
occurred during the last of us.
And, And as much as I. I
did, like. I did really like, welcome to the
Rebellion, but there were a lot of
(48:42):
conveniences happening.
I was like, I don't know why
we. Like, this is. I don't feel
any urgency right now. I knows she's gonna
leave. I know. Like, like, it just. And. And
I was just, like, thinking in my head. They
just spent arguably
(49:03):
six episodes, if not more.
All these episodes kind
of. Kind of showing. And we were talking about
this a little bit last week with, Pat. Cigar. Pat
Sager, whatever. Pat. I'm gonna call him
Pat. Patrick. Yeah, I'm gonna call him Pat.
Like, how strategic
(49:24):
the Empire was being, especially with
Gorman, and how, like, the spy
and the espionage that was occurring
last week and then the build up here where
by the time people figured out what was really going on, it was
all too late. Like, they had won.
Well, in episode nine,
(49:45):
it just felt like every. Like, like,
like we're just gonna also show you how
stupid the Empire can be and
how easy it is to get around all of
these safeguards they have in place that
conveniently go awry, when they
want to get Mon Mothma, like, to give her speech
(50:05):
and then get out of there without any problems. I
was just like, what are we doing here?
Like, like, two steps for forward, three
steps back. It's just like,
be. Because it's also, like, to
your point, about, like, they're creating the villains. That's not
Mustach. Well,
(50:27):
Cyril's dead now, and
Deidra we don't see at all in the next
episode. Like, like,
there's another reason why those characters work as
villains is because we see. Seen them. We've gone
along with them. Like, like, it
allows them to get flushed back. And now in
episode nine, the villain is
(50:49):
the emperor. Is the Empire.
Like, it's more of a collective, as
opposed to these. These characters who
you can truly like point at and be
like, I don't like you, even though I understand where
you're coming from.
>> Will (51:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, as far as welcome to the
Rebellion, I think the. The. I. I
get what you're saying about the,
conveniences. And. And they were. But I
think, you know, that, you know, I think Lutheran and.
Yeah, because, you know, like, here's what, you know, Lutheran
set a lot of these things in motion,
(51:25):
way back, you know, for Example having Lot. You know,
having Lonnie's, The empty
m. The. The mole in the
isb, have his agent be part of
Bell Organis team. You know, and he, you know, so
making sure that that per. You know, it was.
All the things were like set up so that
(51:46):
as the tent. Because I. You know, for me, episode nine had
had a lot of good tension and stuff. Even though I knew the
outcome, all the execution of it
was just to. Yeah, it was just
a What I would call payoff for
all the things that have led to that moment. So.
Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. They were.
(52:07):
They were clear
conveniences of. But.
But to me it was sort of like is. Here's the. You
know, they have been looking forward to this moment and
of course it. And even to the point where when
Bill Organa and. And my month that
were talking, that he's like, you know, I won't see you
on Yavin because I gotta stay back here and
(52:30):
continue the work here in the Senate to like.
Because the time. The Things aren't
yet right for us to. To strike. As far as
the. The Alliance. So for me, it was just a
really good. Yes, there was conveniences, but it. But
it was earned conveniences because they had laid the foundation
for it.
>> Sarah (52:53):
what else do you want to talk about?
>> Will (52:56):
well, I mean, there's obviously the protagonist
himself. I mean Cassian and. And his. His journey.
you know, when we. When we first see. See them
on. In episode seven, to go back to the
messenger. and his role as far as,
The question of whether or not, you know, something that
kept going up back and forth
(53:17):
with. In that episode is. Is
whether or not it's fate or
destiny. you know, we do finally do get some.
You know, we get the. The force healer
and You know, in the. In the episode.
In this episode. And. And. And. And you know,
and I like. I like Cassian's reaction to it because
(53:39):
not only was. He's, you know,
skeptical of it, because, you know, he. You know, he
remembers back to, you know, when Marvel was ill
and they tried to use these force healers and stuff. It was just like a
scam and all that. So. And then whenever she
sees that, you know, whenever she touches him and.
And. And you know, and it helps
(53:59):
provide her clarity and stuff. Even though at that moment
it didn't provide clarity for Cassian, it did provide
some clarity to. For Bix as far as, you
know, that his.
Their journeys are not.
Their journeys are in Order for the rebellion to go
forward. She's, gonna. They're gonna have
(54:19):
to sacrifice their relationship,
in order for him to. To continue
the. The path towards rebellion. Because, I mean, all throughout the
episode, Cassian's like, I'm done. I'm tired. I'm ready to just
bell on this kind of stuff. You know, he's done with Lutheran.
He's done with it all.
>> Sarah (54:36):
And.
>> Will (54:37):
And so I really liked how they.
How they framed that to. To really,
you know, show, You know, you know, again,
to go. One of the themes that I've. That I've
seen throughout this series is. Is. Has been the theme of
sacrifice. And, you know, so of course we saw the
sacrifice with M. Mon and episode nine, as far
(54:58):
as you finally hit the
realization that she, you know,
when given that speech, she was, you know, basically sacrificing her
career, her family, you know, other. Other,
Other things. But, you know, for the
rebel, for, you know, for the cause,
and Cassian was having to do the same thing too. And then, of course, when
(55:19):
we get to. To the final episode, when Big Sleep gives him that.
Gives him that. That. That message, it.
It definitely, you know, really, you
know, reinforces, you know,
that. You know, that there's no way that. That for
now they're gonna have to like, So she's gonna have, you know,
they're gonna have to sacrifice their happiness for. For. For the
(55:39):
calls, for the. For the win. And so for me, it just
really, really resonated with that. And also. I know,
I know last week you were saying as far as it was hard for you
to, you know, get invested with Cassian and Bix, as far
as. I'm paraphrasing here, of course, but, you know, you thought they
were there the moment at the end of Rogue One.
Was he. Whether or not he was cheating or not on picks.
(56:00):
I mean, clearly he wasn't. He's just, She.
>> Sarah (56:04):
Was cheating on Vix.
>> Will (56:06):
Well, yeah, but,
>> Sarah (56:09):
I didn't know how much time, how much I could spend
invested in their dynamic when I
knew she wasn't around for Rogue One. And
so I felt.
Me. I felt more like,
oh, so. So they knew viewers
would suspect that Bix is gonna die. Like I was
(56:29):
suspecting by the end of this. This show because
she's not in Rogue One. So instead we're gonna do
this other thing and randomly. And I'm
gonna say randomly because I. I thought it kind of came
out of nowhere. I mean, I. I'm. I'm
not Stupid. I. I can. I did watch
the episodes, so I do know the
foreshadowing that they did, but I don't think they did
(56:52):
enough of it. And I don't think it was very clear.
But this is, again, a problem I've had with
this whole relationship since the first
episode. This season is where it has felt
very like, I don't know if I'm
supposed to be rooting for you guys or against each other, because
in one moment you're kissing, in the next moment you're.
You're fighting. And, there's a lot of, like,
(57:15):
anger and distrust and. And Bix had to work through
her ptsd, and it seemed like, in
a way, she got what she needed, and then she
bailed. Like. Like. And
I get it, the whole sacrifice, but Cassian
didn't sacrifice it. Bix made that choice for him.
>> Will (57:33):
And.
>> Sarah (57:34):
And it's also like. Like,
we. We get introduced to Cassie, and he's trying to find a
sister, so. So
now he's gonna try to also be trying to
find Bix for three episodes,
but he's not gonna find her. Like,
I don't know where I'm going with this.
>> Will (57:54):
I don't.
>> Sarah (57:55):
But, yes.
>> Will (57:56):
Yeah. No, I mean, to your.
I mean, to. What you said there was very important.
I mean, she. She knew that he could not make the choice, so she
had to make that choice because otherwise he
would not. He would not stick around
and go. And, you know. And the episode kind of
ends with that, with, you know, whenever they want
(58:16):
him to, come to, you know,
see the reactivation of K2. It was like, you know, they address
him Captain. Captain Andor. So, I mean, it was. It
was, you know, so they.
She had, you know, she had to nudge him to. To do it.
so.
>> Sarah (58:32):
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I. I'm not arguing that at all. It just.
I thought it was kind of an easy way
out for the writers
to. To make sure she wasn't in the. In the
next three episodes or in Rogue One.
sure.
>> Will (58:53):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (58:53):
And to resolve this relationship, which we should
have been rooting for, but I have been questioning this
whole time, so I was more
on board with Deidre and Cyril.
>> Will (59:05):
Well, yeah.
>> Sarah (59:07):
Better.
>> Will (59:08):
Yeah. I mean, as far as relationships go in the. In
this series, they. You know, they definitely. I
think that's part of whenever she was having her panic attack. You know,
not only did she. And I think she had. You know, I
think Dedra did have some realization, too.
She. She does have some blood on her hands because you know, she
was thinking Kaido would be the one to like, you know.
(59:29):
Yeah, you know, he had a purpose there. But at the end of the day,
you know, he would find out, told her it was like, look, I'm here,
but you're going to be the one that's giving the order here. It's going to be you
that's going to have the blood on your hands, not me. I'm just falling. You know, he's doing
the Nuremberg defense. I'm just like, I'm just here. I'm just
following orders.
>> Sarah (59:45):
Yeah, well, I don't know. There's something in the
way she, they performed it and portrayed it that I
felt like there was something else going on than just
like I wasn't supposed to press the button.
Like, oh, like
which, which we had spent so much
time with Cyril and that's why everyone
understood like the, the,
(01:00:09):
the irony with his
out out outcome and everything
and the who are you? Of it all.
But, but with her, I was like, if
we had just spent a little more time with her, we
could then see a bit more of the layers that
were going on. And arguably, even
with them as a couple, we got barely any
(01:00:31):
scenes between them as a couple to too.
So. And, and like I said earlier,
maybe, maybe I was more on board with that because
I feel like sometimes with Star wars writing
they belabor things they
over to explain things they over
explain. And arguably this, this can be
(01:00:53):
said for a lot of like,
like I want to say fantasy
genre shows. I mean I think Game of Thrones does
it too. But, but there, there's a
belabor of, of points where
it's like, okay, you've explained to me that three
times in three different ways.
But, but you're allowing no
(01:01:15):
nuances or, or little
nuances. Like, and maybe that's why
I have a problem like knowing
where this is going. Like.
And yes, I'm supposed to be on board for the
journey, but
I don't feel like they're fully taking
(01:01:36):
advantage of the,
the journey and exploring the nuances
as much as they could. So much as like,
I mean Will spoiled the Gorman thing for me
back in episode one, so I was
like, oh, so that's where we're going.
So, so how involved? And then to see
(01:01:57):
that play out, I don't, I don't know. It's just. It
feels more like we're being told history
than actually sitting
in the moments and sitting with some of the people
where we can, we can really feel. Feel
it. I Think I got a little bit more out of
that during season one than I am this season.
>> Will (01:02:19):
M. Well, I hear it. I, I, I, I, I,
I, I could see that point.
especially romantic relationships. I see. I think
for me, I do think that they did some, I mean, it was in a
weird, you know, they're very Cyril
Deadra way of like, showing
affection and stuff, which, whenever she like, laid that, hey, when she
(01:02:39):
laid that haymaker, that big kiss on him there in the hall
in episode seven, I was just like, wait a minute, this is like,
you know, you know, this is, this is coming from the lady who told
her, you know, told Zero to turn off the lights.
So, so, yeah,
so, yeah, so we did see those nuance
and, and on the nose moments in their relationship. so
I, I would take a little exception that they would. We
(01:03:02):
didn't get a glimmer of their, you know, we didn't get layers
of, of their, of their relationship there.
>> Sarah (01:03:07):
I didn't say we didn't at all. I just said like
I was trying to more make the point that
because there was few and far between,
I felt like I took more of an interest and
curiosity of what's really going on there than
I did with Bix and Andor.
>> Will (01:03:26):
Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, I mean,
yeah, I mean, I hear what you're saying. I mean, I guess for Bix and
Andor, for me, as far as their relationship, it seemed,
it seemed
believable to me for two people who
are trying to have a normal, trying to have
a normal as, as normal a relationship as
(01:03:46):
freedom fighters, you know, and people who are
in this, in this, in this situation
can have, with all the constraints
that, that, that surround it. So, you
know, every, every time they were, they would try to have a woman, like when
he was there, just even on Yavin at the beginning of episode seven,
they were trying to have a nice moment and then Wilman shows up. So it's
(01:04:06):
just like, you know, there was,
they, they had their moments, but it, you know, it
wasn't like the, I guess,
typical TV romance or whatever, for lack of a
better description of it.
But yeah, but I mean, but you know, but to your point too, I think, you
know, with Deadra and her, her, panic,
(01:04:27):
you know, let's go back to that for a
moment. I think the other thing too was just her realization that Cyril
was probably killed out, out there on the Right,
you know, in the, when the, when the things went
down in the streets. So I think it was a very, Again,
I Think very layered reaction, to.
To many things. And maybe her also realization that she also
(01:04:48):
got played. Just thinking about some of her, you know, her,
her transmissions of Paragus throughout the episode.
>> Sarah (01:04:53):
well, this was her idea from the get go.
>> Will (01:04:56):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:04:58):
Whether. Whether it played out and, and
sometimes. And maybe that's really what we
were seeing with her is like I had this
idea.
>> Will (01:05:07):
Yep.
>> Sarah (01:05:08):
This is how it's playing out. Like,
like when I had the idea,
it seemed like I couldn't
put faces to people or anything.
it like. Like there, there's.
I'm. I'm arguably the most curious.
I'm thing I am, interested in seeing
(01:05:29):
in these last three episodes is what they do with
that character because they have spent so much
time over the course of two seasons
with her. And for Cyril to be gone
M. You better get more than like one
episode with her. Like,
she needs to go out in a very similar
(01:05:50):
way that like we need some
satisfying way for her to go
out. on the same lines of Cyril. Now I don't think
they can drop Ciro's death, but,
they. They need to. They need to
have a full circle moment. I mean, I will
be honest though, because I saw some like
(01:06:10):
stills and I seen like Cyril
banged up and, and I, and I put down
together the rundown way before watching the
episodes. A part of me was like, oh,
is Cyril gonna join the rebellion?
Is that what. But, but
see, hear me out. Like, honestly,
there were a lot of moments where he
(01:06:33):
clearly wanted to. He clearly
was like, like going to.
But then he sees Cassie and that like that was
such a good scene. So like,
that was a good thing. Like, I can, I
can have my grievances with this
show and everything, but, when
I do like something, I really do like it,
(01:06:56):
about andor as a whole. So.
>> Will (01:06:59):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:06:59):
And then it keeps me through to watch the final
three episodes. So.
>> Will (01:07:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree that that was a good scene. I mean,
just because seeing him short circuit and then
all that was just happening around him and then, you know, he gets
locked laser focused again when he sees Cassian and it's the
brutality of that fight. And then he also has.
And then he short circuits again when Cassian's
like, who are you? Because, you know.
(01:07:25):
Yeah. And.
>> Sarah (01:07:25):
Yeah, and he has the moment where he,
he like you. You can see it. Like, it's
beautifully acted. It's. It. It's so.
It's so good that,
it's so. But I'm also. I'm not
sad that we don't get any more Cyril
because it's such a satisfying ending for him.
(01:07:46):
Like, I'm like, if you're gonna take him out, that's the way to take him
out.
>> Will (01:07:50):
That's the way to take him out.
>> Sarah (01:07:51):
So perfect. so,
yeah, anyway, I think that's a great.
>> Will (01:07:56):
That's a great place to finish our discussion tonight.
>> Sarah (01:07:59):
Yep. And on that note, Will, why don't you tell our
listeners where they can find you.
>> Will (01:08:04):
Yes, you can find me on all the socials at, Will and
Polk. W I L L M M P O L L K
And you can.
>> Sarah (01:08:10):
Find me there too@sjvillmont sjblm m o n T.
Please follow our crew on X, formerly known as
Twitter, @cedanerd on blue sky at
scenanerd and friend us on Facebook. Follow us on
Instagram and threads at
scene,_n_nerd and visit our
website www.score.
but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcast,
(01:08:32):
Spotify, YouTube or wherever your podcast. Good night.
Geek out. You're welcome.
(01:08:53):
Sa.
Foreign
(00:12):
nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as
always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing tonight,
Will?
>> Will (00:18):
Doing very well, Sarah. Happy Tuesday. Hope you're
doing well.
>> Sarah (00:22):
Happy Tuesday indeed. I am doing
fine. I am here. We're making
our way through May.
>> Will (00:31):
Yeah, Making our way through May.
Yeah. Making our way through May. It's of course we
got the, the Last of Us tonight that we're talking
about, of course, andor which season two, episode
seven through nine, which I think everybody's talked about, but hopefully we
can add our, our unique spin to it. I know
as we were, we were talking before you had share some
(00:51):
thoughts about the pivotal scenes
in episode eight, but we'll, we'll get into that, and
how commercials don't help.
But but yeah, but I, I, I, before we got to that, I did have
some quick note news notes that we haven't, haven't had a news
segment last week. so wanted to hit a couple things
that, that dropped
(01:12):
this week if, if you're.
>> Sarah (01:15):
Yeah, cool. Oh, the way you
said it, I thought you were gonna go into it, so that's why I was
like waiting.
>> Will (01:22):
No, no. Ah, yeah, see. Yeah, we have
some news this week that we have the
upfronts that the every. I
guess it's been a while since they've had really, really big
upfronts. But it's the big advertising,
thing that all the networks and now streamers put on as
far as, sharing, you know, the upcoming
(01:43):
items for the next, season. And
so, the first one, the big one today that we got was
news that Criston, Ritter is going to be
returning to the
Marvel Universe and Daredevil Born Again Season
two. She's going to be, which
premieres in March. I think they're, I think
they're, I think they, I think they have finished production as far
(02:06):
as filming. So I guess it's in post now. But yeah, we got
that news today. And then also
another quick item, Fallout, which was all
in Amazon's presentation. we got
word that this show has been renewed
for a third season and also
that season two will be dropping on the
(02:27):
platform in December of this year.
So looking forward to seeing that. also
Amazon dropped word, a little teaser
for the Nicholas Cage Spider man noir,
show, which that character of course was in the comics, but
also most recently we saw him in
the first Spider Verse film and
(02:49):
yeah, and so basically this is going to be a live action
show, that will star Nicholas Cage as the aging
superhero set in the 1930s. And
he's as he tries to grapple with his, his,
his life as a, the one and only superhero
in, in 1930s New York. So that
show's going to be dropping next year
(03:11):
first on the MGM plus platform
and then it will then air the
next day on Amazon Prime. So
that's the update with Spider, man
noir, or I guess Spider Noir I think is going to be the
title of that show. also got word that
the Bear season four is going to be returning on the Hulu
(03:31):
presentation today, coming June
25th and they will be dropping all
episodes at once. So I'll get around to them right before
season five premieres.
And this wasn't part of the upfronts, but
the Peacemaker Season 2 trailer dropped I
guess, I think over the weekend. I
(03:52):
think it was. I haven't watched it actually, but I know a lot of
people have. and
>> Sarah (03:58):
You haven't watched it. You put it on the rundown.
You put it on the rundown. So I got on
early and I saw it and I was like, oh
well, Will's gonna ask me if I watched it, so I
might as well. I watched one minute of the two minute trailer. I,
I saw too much. I saw too much. Okay,
I, I just, I,
(04:21):
within, within 10 seconds I was like telling
myself, abort, abort. Like,
but yeah, I,
I'm going to see it. So I don't, I
honestly don't want to know what's
going on. Like, I really don't. And,
and also like, I will tell
(04:42):
you like the clear, clear tie
ins with whatever happens in Superman.
So remember like a few months ago
when there was this whole Chair saga
and people pointed out that even though they
spent like half a day just watching trail,
chairs with their names be revealed, they
(05:03):
were like pointing out how the MCU is basically
spoiling the state fakes of all the movies that
are in between Doomsday.
well, in my mind I'm like, well, having watched
one minute of the Peacemaker trailer,
basically DC just did the same thing.
They kind of just did the same thing
(05:26):
in a way with a few of their ancillary characters
who they're introducing in Superman.
So I mean, granted I've already,
I've already pretty much shit on this Superman
marketing campaign already because I feel like I've Seen
the whole movie at least twice now. but
yeah, I just, I can't,
(05:47):
I, I just. Why? Two
minutes? It's a TV show. Yeah.
And, and it's a TV show that already has an
audience. And you know you're gonna get more
with Superman. And you also know
that people like, still have yet to see
Superman. So I think there could have been
(06:08):
some much more interesting and
strategic, marketing for
both properties. but then
again, I mean, as long as I don't
think anything spoiled the most important
thing, which is the opening title sequence of
Peace Season 2.
>> Will (06:27):
That's the, that's the important thing. Just don't
spoil the opening. But anything else.
Yeah, I, I don't need to see it because I'm
already, I'm already locked in and invested. And so,
speaking of Superman, there will
be a, apparently a new trailer
tomorrow. we're recording Tuesday night. So
(06:48):
on, on Wednesday, the
14th of, of May, we will get a,
a new Superman trailer. This, is the teaser poster that
I think they dropped, either yesterday or today,
for the, And I think they did a teaser. They did a teaser.
A teaser for the trailer. To
your point about marketing, but, I,
I, I am not going to watch it, but I just wanted to share
(07:11):
for our, for our, our listeners
that if you do want to watch the
trailer, if you're listening to our podcast tomorrow
when we, or tonight as we, after we drop it,
Superman, trailer is coming. And,
you will be able to, if you want to watch it, you
can, but don't come. I mean, I'll just be
(07:33):
completely, transparent. We, we will. Neither one of
us will probably watch it and just enjoy it when it comes in
July.
>> Sarah (07:39):
Yeah, we're, we're on a ban of all things
Superman until July. Like,
I, I, I really think, like
to go back to our conversation last week,
at least 50 of why I felt
the way I did about Thunderbolts was because
I knew very minimal information.
(08:00):
I had seen very minimal
footage. Maybe I should have led with that. Like,
I'd watched one trailer about
like the first trailer that came out, and that
was like a good six months, five months ahead of
time, and then didn't really see anything
else. So like, I, I
(08:21):
want to preserve that. However, I will
warn you, it's already lost on
Superman. I've already seen too much.
I already feel like I've failed. And I'm pretty
sure DC is going to come after me and I'm going to be
bombarded with trail of that thing.
And I'm getting close with Fantastic Four, you
(08:42):
know. Yeah,
yeah, but whatever.
>> Will (08:46):
Yeah, but speaking of that. So they are, like,
bombarding us with trailers for
things that we are most likely going to go see.
But then I'm still waiting for
the Ironheart trailer for a show
that's supposed to be dropping in June, but
you know that. But I'm still. I mean, it's gotten to the
(09:07):
place now where fans are like,
yeah, where is. Where is it? And. And, you know, and fans,
are doing their own promotion for this show because
Disney and Marvel are just falling down. I mean, it's
just like almost a month away. And I think we
may m. Have gotten a teaser for it, but I don't even
(09:28):
recall that. Maybe a poster or something. But. Yeah,
so, you know, so I'm, kind of
like, what's up, y' all? I mean,
really?
>> Sarah (09:37):
Yeah, it's not a
good sign if they're not putting marketing towards
a property like that.
>> Will (09:45):
It.
>> Sarah (09:45):
It bodes that they don't have faith in that
property and they just want people
to free, like, they have to release it because they put
all that money into it. but they.
They also don't. But maybe it's
also something else is going on and it'll get
moved, and that's why they're not doing
marketing right now, because they already know that they have
(10:08):
to move it for a different reason or a different purpose.
>> Will (10:10):
But.
>> Sarah (10:11):
Yeah, but that's a. That's a good point. That, like,
even though we get bombarded by some things, there are
other things where it's just like, why are you waiting
so long? I mean.
>> Will (10:22):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you know, and not
to get all conspiracy bro theory or whatever, but as I has
a black female lead, are they, like, worried about the W police
coming after them? Or. I mean, what is it? I mean, I just.
It's just. I'm just. I'm. I'm,
befuddled by why there's. There hasn't been
any. Hardly anything about this
show.
>> Sarah (10:44):
So. Yeah, well, Well, we. We
will. In time. The cards
will play out.
But that brings us to the first big topic of
tonight. The Last of Us. Season two, Episode five,
Feel Her Love. The. The
WLF makes a dangerous discovery at a great
(11:04):
cost. Later, Ellie must decide whether to continue with
her plan and risk putting Dina in danger
or give up on her quest for justice.
that's actually a very good summary of this episode, I have to say.
I just. I want to Start with the Cold Open again. Because I
find that the way they're
utilizing the Cold opens are really,
(11:26):
interesting mainly because
it takes, it takes a bit for you to
figure out that this isn't a flashback.
This is the current day. we. We
see the same WLF member
who we saw in the Cold Open last
week. And she at the time
(11:47):
was basically inducting
Isaac into the fold. but
now we see her completely military out
in the hospital and questioning one of the
officers. And we get told a
story about the hospital and
the lower levels of the hospital and
(12:07):
the fact that that This
officer had to lock her men
down there because it was in
the air. And
>> Will (12:19):
They.
>> Sarah (12:19):
They barricaded the lower levels. And,
And I really like the whole. Like at the
beginning of the conversation she
mentions what is Leon. And
then by the end of the conversation,
says. Says I'm sorry about your son.
>> Will (12:39):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (12:39):
And. And like, like I, that's. It's great
dialogue because it's not direct,
but it's also set up that you can infer
that Leon was her son. So
she, she had to
sacrifice her son for the good of
the own. And her son even wanted her to do that,
(13:00):
based on what was going down, in
those lower levels. But I guess to
start us off. Will, what. What were your thoughts
about this whole cold open sequence?
>> Will (13:12):
Cold open sequence work worked again
for me. I think that's one of the,
One of the strengths of this show. especially
now that we're postal and
Cold opens in the past as well. But
this last week and this week opening that
way just definitely does for me.
(13:34):
It, it frames
the episode in a way that
it leads for intrigue and wondering. Like,
especially as someone who hasn't played the game,
it, it helps sort of,
sort of set the table for like, okay,
what's going to be the, the threat
(13:55):
or, or. Or that
as we are now in Seattle.
What are, what are some of the things that these characters are going to be having
to deal with? And so, you know, this,
this was. I do. I do know that the,
you know, quarter steps in the game
transmission was different, was. Was
(14:17):
airborne from the get. whereas they adapt. When they adapted the
tv, they did change it to make. Make it first
a bite. Now they have like
ratcheted up the. The threat of the quarter
steps by being an airborne transmission.
But so, so to me that was just like,
oh, okay, here, here.
Here's another challenge that, that our characters are going to have to face,
(14:39):
sort of like, you know, I guess, and I guess it is sort of like a video
game in that respect where, you know, as you, as you progress in
the game, different thing, different challenges
do come come up. So sort of
TV Watcher is sort of that same kind of thing as well.
>> Sarah (14:54):
Yeah, yeah. It's also just
good world building we have going
on. I mean, between both of these cold opens this
week and last week have to do with the WLF
and nothing to do with Jackson, nothing to do
with Ellie, Joel, none of that. It's
honestly something that also sticks out to me with
(15:15):
these cold opens that they have nothing to do with Abby.
I mean, arguably, just because she's
currently a member of the wlf, they don't talk
about her. She's not, she's not seen,
we haven't seen her in episodes.
And yet we, we are in Seattle and,
and we just, like Ellie and Dina
(15:36):
are also piecing together
what exactly is happening there. And
so we, we've got in the
breadcrumbs and we see it fleshed out even
more here in this episode.
The, the, the battle, the war that's
going on between the, I want to say
scars, but that's not technically their name, the
(15:58):
Seraphites and, and the
wlf. And, and
now also with this cold open, it's also
like they're not just fighting each other. Remember,
they, they, they still
got infected and they got, they got,
clickers, they have stalkers. All,
all sorts of the different versions,
(16:20):
that are coming to life are, are
definitely found in Seattle. So
while this war between living
people still exists as well. So
it, you, you're spot on with like the different
levels of a game. That's what we're
experiencing. And, and we, and
(16:40):
Ellie and Dina are even experiencing that
as they figure out a way to get to the hospital.
And well, Dina does
because, Ellie is not school oriented.
Not school oriented. I really like that. And,
and which brings me to one of my first points of this
(17:00):
episode. Isabella Merced,
where have you been? And also I'm so glad
you've arrived because my God,
between this and I know you're going to be in Superman,
which we just talked about and based on
the one minute I saw, Peacemaker, FYI,
are going to be in that too. But
(17:22):
you are having a year. And to start it off
like I, I, her performance
is just so good this season
that I don't want to say it's carrying
the show because the show is really good as a
whole, but it is a
definite highlight for me so far.
>> Will (17:43):
Yeah. Yeah, I. I agree. that. That.
Honestly, that was so. I. I have to be honest. I
was Feel this episode after the
cold open, and I like. I
like the opening moments there with Ellie and. And.
And Dina with the triangulation and.
And some of the. You know, there were some
(18:03):
good moments, but her.
Her. And it has. It has nothing to do with performances because. And
that's why I want to make it very clear. Her performance,
whenever she was talking, for example, jumping ahead
to when they were walking down there and. And she. She
was sharing her. Her. Her backstory as
far as the who. The
(18:24):
first person she killed.
>> Sarah (18:27):
Yeah.
>> Will (18:28):
Yeah. I mean, that worked. I mean
that her performance really took just
a ex. Exposition dump and.
And made it like I was dialed
in.
>> Sarah (18:40):
Yeah.
>> Will (18:41):
but the rest of the episode, I don't know, it just,
It was. It felt empty to me in some.
Some regards where usually I feel like there's a tension
or. Or just escal.
Escalation of things, but it just. I don't know. I
just. It just. Just felt very
artif. Hollow for. For whatever reason,
(19:02):
but it's not close to the performances.
>> Sarah (19:05):
It's interesting you say that because I will be honest.
Like, after first watching it, like,
that night, I was like, this is probably one of the
weaker episodes. But the more I think about
this episode, the more
I actually think that
there are some. There
(19:26):
are some. They. They are doing things
for. With, like, intention.
And. And I think that.
I don't think it's the best in any way, shape or
form, but I do think
that it's not. It's not
awful. Hollow might be a good word for it.
(19:47):
It might just be like. Like
there. Because we have yet to
see Ellie finally meet.
Meet Abby again.
We're just. We're just like, okay, it's day two in
Seattle, and. And I'm just gonna call
(20:07):
this out. I think it was very
noticeable, more so in. Than any other
episode I've seen of this series. How
convenient things were.
Yeah, like, they.
Convenient. Like Jesse shows up
at the most convenient time to
stop the stalker from,
(20:29):
killing Ellie. and then all
of the other ones as well from. Because there was
like, maybe right around 10 in there
with them. I don't know. But between
that, then they managed to conveniently get into
the park where. Where they witness
what we actually witness.
(20:50):
how. How the. How the Seraphites
treat the WLF members. I mean, we saw the
aftermath of it, but to actually see the
blade and the Hanging and how that all works.
It was like, whoa.
Yeah, yeah, whoa. But, but then,
but then they conveniently escape from m. Them
(21:10):
as well because they realize like, and
then, and, and then they have to
separate and Ellie conveniently
finds her. So I, I agree. Like,
to me that was one of the reasons why
I've. This episode I don't
think works as well as it should or could
have is because of all of the plot
(21:32):
conveniences that occur.
>> Will (21:34):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean this is the first time. I mean,
yes, there's always plot armor in these shows,
but to me it just really just felt very
apparent this week. And you're right. I mean it's not that. I'm not saying
it's a bad episode, but,
but in when I'm, when I'm measuring it
against other. Within the, within the
(21:54):
live action version of the the Last of Us,
this just to me. This just to me just felt like it was.
And, and it was
just sort of a set piece. It was
just getting us from A to B to C.
And, and I, I don't know.
Yeah, kind of. I mean there's some, there's some. They explore some things. Like,
(22:17):
to your, to your point, one of the reasons why the Cold Open
works so well is because we
do have, we do have a parent who is,
who is making that
choice that Joel and Ellie had
before. So as far as
choosing the good of the mini versus to go to the one.
So whenever, you know, so
(22:40):
whenever those things were happening, I was
rocking with the show. That was where I, Even in this episode
I was like, I'm, I'm dialed in.
But then, but then the stuff
in the. Like I said, when the clickers,
the. I guess when Ellie and
Dina were in the. The smart. The
stalkers were in the, in the warehouse and stuff,
(23:02):
it just like I felt like, okay,
we saw. Yeah. I don't know, it just, it just felt
repetitive at this point.
>> Sarah (23:10):
Yeah. Just felt
like another,
another scene to show how
our two lead characters, our two
heroes, are. Are just
finding like getting themselves put in these
worst situations and will conveniently get out of
(23:30):
them. Like we. That's not, that's
not what this show is about. This show needs. There needs to
be more human conflict. I mean some of
the. What was it like episode three
this season? We didn't see an infected at all. And I
was like, this is great. This is great. But now between
this sequence and the sequence last week with the
(23:51):
train, it's like, okay, so how
many times will Dina and Ellie
figure out a plan to get from point A to
point B, but have to go through an area that
WLF is not protecting for an
obvious reason.
>> Will (24:07):
Exactly.
>> Sarah (24:08):
Like, I, I, completely agree with you,
like, to that extent that this, this is
a very. And, and why I
say I can't say for sure that this
is about getting from point A to point B, because they
backtrack because they, they're just
gonna end up back at the theater at the end of
(24:28):
this. I mean, who knows what Nora
ends up telling her? because she's
dead. Either way. I mean, in one way,
and, and honestly, either way is agony,
arguably. So, so because
the core steps and, that actress,
you know, if you're gonna go out, you might as well go out
(24:50):
like that. I, I thought she did a good job
of, of initially
trying to, like, say, I agree
that was awful. I don't think you should have seen
it. And then when she does the whole,
like, yeah, but Joel, got what he deserved. It was like.
And, and I like it because of Bella's
(25:11):
reaction. M. Because, you
see, Bella's reaction means
she fell for it just the
way I think. I think some of the, like,
viewers were falling for it too. Was just like,
was like, okay, okay. But then
that flip, and it catches her so off guard, she
doesn't even shoot her. And in time. And
(25:33):
then that leads to the chase down to level
B2, which we'd already known
was where all of the cordyceps were. But,
But I will. As cool as it was to
see Ellie go full, full
murderer, for lack of a better word,
torturer. I,
(25:54):
I, I did leave this, this episode
thinking to myself, are they gonna explain
how Ellie will conveniently escape the
hospital from
that place, to
go to the theater, return back to
the theater, which she knows is where Jesse
(26:14):
took Dina, and they're meeting up with,
Tommy.
>> Will (26:18):
Right, right.
>> Sarah (26:19):
Yeah, yeah, that's,
Yeah. I, and I also, I'm just gonna say I kind
of wish it was Tommy and not Jesse. I kind
of wish it was Tommy. Not just because I
was. I, I, I, want to see
Tommy. Like,
I, I, we haven't explored too much
(26:39):
of his feelings about all of this. Right, right.
>> Will (26:43):
Right.
>> Sarah (26:44):
So, so we're, we're headed into
episodes. Episode, ah, seven.
And, and that's the penultimate episode of the season.
And yet we have not spent a lot of time with
Tommy and, and he
arguably has is just as many
complex emotions about the loss of his brother
as Ellie, if not more so, because
(27:06):
of the Whole town situation and,
and his. His complex
relationship with Joel from the get go. So.
So I. I don't know, going into next week,
which I inadvertently saw a
thumbnail. So, I'm. I can't. I'm pretty
suspicious that next week will be a full on flashback
(27:26):
episode. I'm just saying.
>> Will (27:28):
Yeah, yeah,
yeah, we got the ending, of course, and you know. But
yeah, I. I saw. Yeah, I think. I don't know if I
watched the, Did I watch? No, I did not. But I. I have
seen some. Seen a few still photos and
yeah, it's flashback. Yeah.
>> Sarah (27:45):
Yeah. So.
>> Will (27:46):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (27:47):
So I don't know when we're gonna get Tommy
present day is what I'm. What I'm
saying. But, Yeah,
so, I mean, I
mean really, I just kind
of marathon ran through everything
that happened and
I. I mean, unless there was anything else.
(28:10):
I mean, you did raise a good point about the col.
Opening, like the sac. A parent
sacrificing their child for the
better of others. I don't know if you
intentionally said it or not, but you did say that
like Joel and Ellie had that choice.
Ellie did not have a choice.
>> Will (28:29):
No, no, no, no, no, no.
I guess I may zip through to what I was saying. The
Joel. The choice that Joel had with. With
Ellie is what I'm saying.
>> Sarah (28:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The choice Jewel made for
Ellie. that. That is, what the record
shows. yeah. So thanks.
And yeah,
>> Will (28:54):
Yeah, but I mean, really, like I said, it was. It was. It was.
It was m. Again, when I say it left
me hollow. Left me kind of me. It's
just. I'm, judging it against everything else in the last of us. And there's
plenty. There's. There's like
we. As we just discussed. I mean, there's good
moments where they do get into the.
(29:15):
The More into the. The choice. And
then of course, you know, Ellie just going full
on ballistic, to, you know,
with. With torches, torturing,
Nora before. You know.
You know, I guess it was one of those things just like I'm gonna get
the answer or I'm, just gonna draw this out like you guys did with
(29:36):
Joel.
>> Sarah (29:36):
Exactly. Yeah.
>> Will (29:38):
Yeah. So. Yeah. So not very sympathetic
character at this point, but you know, it's.
But you can understand, you know, it goes. It does get to
the discussion that Elliot and. And Dina had as they.
As they were walking as far as like justice
and revenge and all that kind of stuff. So they're, you know, so there were the
themes of what we have dealt with all,
(29:58):
all season. But, but, you know, but
like I said, I think, you know, it was the short. I think it was the
shortest episode for the season, so I think it did what
it needed to do. And we'll get the, we'll go to
the, flashback episode next week.
The penultimate. Yeah. I will say one thing, though. I think
(30:20):
we're now a few episodes in,
with Pedro not being on the show.
And it,
I didn't. How does. I don't want to.
It's, it is. It is.
Thankfully, Isabella Merced is just
killing it. Bella's killing it. But, but
(30:42):
I do. And you know, I think a few weeks back I was like, I felt
like this was almost like a second pilot
when we were discussing the, the post Joel world
and, and, and some, you know, so now that we're a few
episodes in, I, I, I do go
back to that comment and say, and, and you know, it's,
yes, it's the same show and
(31:04):
maybe pilot's not the right word, but I do feel like it's
like, it is like a reset into another chapter
of, of, of, clearly it's another chapter,
for this story. And, and so I, so
as still trying to get myself
oriented around that.
>> Sarah (31:21):
So you still m. You miss Pedro and
think that, his absence has, has left
like a big, a big, ah,
hole in this for me.
>> Will (31:32):
It does.
>> Sarah (31:34):
Yeah. I can, it's, it's hard for me
to say for, for sure. If,
I, I will say that I
think. Hey, hey, hey.
I, if, if you're not gonna go there, I will go there.
I honestly, I don't have as big of
a problem with Pedro not being around as
(31:55):
I do with. I think people are giving, Bella
Ramsey a bit too much credit.
I don't think she's as good this season as she
was last season. M.
So, So I guess I could make the argument
that people saying that this
season is not as good because
(32:15):
Pedro gets killed off in episode two.
Well, I think what they're missing is
Bella works really good with Pedro.
I think that's, and even though I
will say the chemistry between Ellie and
Dina, really good. Really
good. But that's not what this show is about
(32:36):
in some moments.
>> Will (32:38):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (32:41):
So I, I just, I, I, I
feel like people are giving her a
bit too much credit. And I don't
like, even in this episode, I, I gave her one
shout out, but by the end of it,
she, she's, she's too dead in the eyes
sometimes. Like and that's what gets
(33:01):
me is where I, I love actors
who I can see their emotions play out in the
eyes, and for whatever reason, she
is too dead in there, where
I just, I'm just like, I don't
know how you're feeling, but this is how you're
behaving, which, in one episode it's being a
(33:22):
complete brat. In another episode, she's a complete liar.
So, So I don't. I
don't know. but, but yeah, I, I.
And, and I will. I'm just gonna put this out
here. No, I've never played the game. We all know this. But
I have seen all the couch cutscenes. and I do know
what happens, and I do have fondness for the story.
(33:43):
Overall. Both. Both, Game One and Game
Two, everything that
viewers who have no experience with the game,
specifically Game Two, are going through with all
of their emotions is exactly what a lot of
people playing the game felt as well.
>> Will (34:01):
Yeah,
completely. Yeah, I think, yeah, that. That is
completely. Yeah. What I, what I think I am
feeling now as someone who's just experiencing this world via live
action. But, I have read a few. I have. I have
read some, things about it. Maybe they even mentioned that on.
Oh, no, they didn't mention on the official podcast. But,
(34:23):
but I have seen that sentiment out there. It's like, yeah, just welcome to whatever
all the game players felt, part two.
>> Sarah (34:28):
Yeah, yeah, it's just like. It's just like
Game of Thrones, when watching,
watching that show, a lot of people pointed out
like, oh, you finally got to that episode. Cool,
welcome. That was me 10 years ago.
So it's just the.
(34:50):
When you have characters and they,
they die, of course there's going to be
absence and holes and everything,
but it's just. It's
just if the characters that remain, if
you're still curious, which. And.
And that's another thing. They're very much focused on
Ellie and Dina. We've got a lot of led.
(35:12):
I already mentioned earlier, haven't seen Tommy.
No. No Abby sighting at all.
None. Like, we're learning
Isaac has been in two scenes,
maybe like three scenes. So there's a lot
of characters. And I think, I think to your point about
the whole, like, second pilot,
(35:35):
what we've gotten sent Post Joel
Post Jackson is a lot of world building.
The world of Seattle, this battle between
the WLF and the Seraphites.
And, And I think, I think that
it's a lot of setup.
that that is really going
(35:55):
to. Is all working towards. Not the end of the
season, but it's mainly working towards what will
happen in season three. Three.
>> Will (36:03):
Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Which is.
Which I think, is. I think as Bellamer said, this share some
info about when they're starting they're going to film that. So it might
be. It's going to be a moment before we get to season three.
Ah, maybe like 2027. So
based on schedules and everything else. So.
>> Sarah (36:21):
Well, yep.
I'm very curious about season three.
>> Will (36:28):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (36:29):
But. All right, well that leads us
into Andor episode seven,
Messenger. Episode eight. Where
are you? what is episode eight called?
>> Will (36:41):
Who.
>> Sarah (36:42):
Who are you? Who are you? Episode nine.
Welcome to the Rebellion.
now, now we already agreed we were gonna go
through this, plot point by plot point and
we're just going to start with the Gorman event.
so, so Will, what are your thoughts about this event?
>> Will (37:02):
you would have to start with Gorman, but I, I,
Well, I'll just step back just for. Well, I will
say this about the Gorman event.
So whenever we
learned that this block of episodes
was going to be the
(37:23):
episodes top
line was 2 BBY.
So fans of Star wars
who, who watch Rebels are familiar
with it. That that was the
year that Mon Motha
has leaves a speech as gives a speech
(37:44):
and leads to rebellion. and if
folks who watched that,
this, who watched Rebels is fully familiar with it.
I know as I, After I watched these three episodes,
I immediately went to watch
Rebels again because I wanted to see this
episode 318, called Secret Cargo.
(38:04):
and go. Go check it out if you are interested
in seeing what she says, whatever
she is finally
with the Rebellion, and pulling everyone together as
far as the Alliance. So
I, you know, so this episode, you know, so this
scene, the whole. Everything about it
(38:26):
basically fully.
It was as, as. As much as I
imagined how bad it was going to be.
They, it. It from the emotional
standpoint, from the The whole
setup with it. As far as an episode. You know,
we've, We've. The preceding episodes have like
(38:47):
built up to this as far as the arcs. As far as we
saw the, you know, I, I
laid, you know, they laid the foundation with the
With the propaganda machine as far as just talking about
the You know, the gore.
The gore. And And you know,
we see it in the beginning of this EP
(39:07):
with the media, you know, parroting
the. The. The scripted line as far as, you know,
the, the insurgencies and the people there
and all that, so all the things were just building up
to this moment. And then of course, both part of Gas and
Lutheran using their, you know, the
isb, having their plan to like, get this,
(39:27):
to set this moment off. And then of course Lutheran also
doing his things as far as wanting
the wanting this event to happen.
and even, you know, he would even been disappointed if like, by some
chance that Mon Motha was successful in the Senate to
like, you know, be able to get the
legislation passed to like,
(39:48):
get this, you know, get the Empire, you know,
off the, the, you know, setting
things in motion to, to mind the cocaine.
So everything about it was just
executed flawlessly. And,
and, and it had the, it had the, it had the, the
visceral brutality of it all
(40:08):
as far as, you know, as they were lining everything up and in
the prior episodes and then basically putting, putting the
barricades up and just basically marching these poor souls into a
kill box. And so everything about
that, it just worked
really well to the point where even after, after,
you know, watching episode eight, I, I, I,
(40:29):
I, I, you know, Cassian was leaving
and you know, shed that tear. I was, I was,
I was doing that too because I, I was truly,
truly
captured the, the emotions of, of the moment
and just the, these, the intensity of
it all. And, and I think it was just, and the reason
(40:49):
why it was such, was
set up so well that when it did
finally happen, it had the
emotional impact that, that, that it was intended
to have.
>> Sarah (41:11):
Yeah, yeah, it, it had an impact
on people.
>> Will (41:15):
Yeah, yeah, well, yeah,
I know, I know. Commercials messed up your,
your experience with it.
>> Sarah (41:22):
Well, I don't know if I, that wasn't the only
thing. I mean, I, I have Disney plus with
commercials, so it kept interrupting and every time
we'd go back to it, I would see their
cereal standing in the middle of the
whole scene, just looking out
bewildered and, and, and
shots firing, but never hitting Cyril
(41:45):
and then, or Cassie and just, just
like wandering around also never
getting shot. It's
like, like that's the thing with Star Wars.
The Stormtroopers and the Imperial,
they, the Empire, they are not good
marksmen because the main
(42:05):
characters never get shot.
The people who aren't. It never ceases.
So, so there was that. And also
I, I, I, I know what you're
saying about the setup and everything. Setup didn't work for
me mainly because I guess
I just, there
(42:27):
was something, how it all played out in the,
these episodes. I like a portion of it,
mainly the propaganda stuff about it. I
thought that was Pretty smart and an interesting angle,
but. But by the end, where even rye
lands, goes in there and. And is
looking around and it's like, oh, oh, well, this is a
(42:47):
trap. And he starts to warn people. Nobody takes
them seriously by that point. So I'm just
thinking to myself, I'm like, oh, you're all gonna die. So,
like, I'm just curious of how
Cassie is gonna get out of this the
whole time. Like, I don't know. There was something
about it, which. Which for me, who
(43:08):
doesn't know I haven't watched Rebels, you know, this.
I. I don't have that much stake in the whole
history here. I
also, in terms of
production, I thought it was really
weird or really strange how they
didn't play any. Any sort of
instrumental. Like, yes, you heard.
(43:30):
You heard the rioting calls. which also
changed halfway through. And then I was
just left trying to figure out, well, why didn't you lead with
that one? Like, your actual,
like, home language. That would have been more
like, I think more of a. Of
a, of a war cry. But no, they led
(43:51):
with a different one, which
led me down to different. I spiraled about for a different
reason that I'm not going to get into. But. But
yeah, there. There was stuff about it where it
didn't work. Now.
Now, the. The more interesting thing to me
is, of course, zero. And that's another
(44:11):
reason why I'm, mad, is because they
killed him, but they also killed him in the best way
possible. Like, I.
Like the. I. I've heard some people talk
about this.
>> Will (44:24):
The.
>> Sarah (44:24):
The fact that this character we have
spent so much time with for a
season and a half, and we've never really
liked him. We know he's working on the
wrong team, but he's able
to, in this. These three episodes too, or
these two episodes that he's a part of, at least
(44:45):
become woke and aware.
And then the disillusionment,
I. I thought was really interesting. And I also,
I. I honestly wish we had.
I'm sorry. You guys can say I'm cold. I am dead
inside. But honestly, I.
(45:06):
Again, I find what they do with the Empire
so much more interesting than anything else going on
in this show where I was.
I was taken aback when we even saw Deirdre
break down at the end of the episode.
Like, I was like, why aren't we spending more time
exploring what's going on there? I mean, you see
(45:26):
bits and pieces, and maybe that's why I like it where
it's not overdone. And overly
communicated what's going on? But,
but I was just like, okay,
so, so you, you do know what you're
doing is like, what's happening is bad.
Okay, okay, so what does that mean?
(45:47):
What does that mean for you as a character, though?
and the same thing with Cyril. So,
like, I just did a full stream of consciousness. I
hope, I hope y' all were able to follow everything I have
to say. but, but Will wasn't chiming
in to take me off course, so. No,
what I'm doing right now.
>> Will (46:07):
No, no, I, I, I was, I,
I think you're right in the sense to your
point. They,
what they did, and I think this is why I think it
works so well, is they do
make, they don't make these
just traditional mustache twirling villains.
>> Sarah (46:27):
Right?
>> Will (46:28):
And, and they really did show
the impact of this event. You
know, for example, with Cyril, you know, he, you
know, once he, you know, he, once he realized, like, you know, we
go back to episode seven,
and in episode eight, as far as just the set
pieces with the event, like, whenever
(46:50):
he is, you know, whenever he is on there,
and, and whenever
Cyril starts to question, dead real, like, he realized, he started
to realize, like, you're not telling me everything.
>> Sarah (47:01):
Right.
>> Will (47:02):
And, and, and so it's that realization, like,
oh, all this time, Cyril's like a very law and
order kind of guy. You know, he's, yeah, he, he.
And, and, and it's that pat. It
is, it's, but it, but he also
had, I guess his, his moral center of order
is not, you know, he starts to see
(47:23):
through the, you know, he's starting to see that he's being manipulated.
He's starting to see, like, wait a minute, they're doing these things.
And even the person that I love, that I'm in love
with also, it's been manipulated
me. And, and, you know,
he's been playing along all this time, but then he backs the questions. It's
like, you know, whenever she, like, says this, when Deadra
(47:44):
says, this year, good things are waiting for us, we will be for work
rewarded. And then he, like, question, he's like, for what?
What have we accomplished?
>> Sarah (47:51):
Yeah.
>> Will (47:51):
And so, yeah, so, so
to your point, why. That's why that
storyline is working and it's working for you,
is because they're making them fully realized
people instead of just like mustache
villains who are just evil for evil's sake.
>> Sarah (48:08):
Right, right. Which, which they showed with the
other members.
>> Will (48:14):
Oh, yeah. Oh, Captain Kaido. Yeah. I mean, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (48:20):
And it was even more highlighted, I think, in
the, In the next episode, welcome to the
Rebellion. Because, I mean, I
pointed out all the conveniences that
occurred during the last of us.
And, And as much as I. I
did, like. I did really like, welcome to the
Rebellion, but there were a lot of
(48:42):
conveniences happening.
I was like, I don't know why
we. Like, this is. I don't feel
any urgency right now. I knows she's gonna
leave. I know. Like, like, it just. And. And
I was just, like, thinking in my head. They
just spent arguably
(49:03):
six episodes, if not more.
All these episodes kind
of. Kind of showing. And we were talking about
this a little bit last week with, Pat. Cigar. Pat
Sager, whatever. Pat. I'm gonna call him
Pat. Patrick. Yeah, I'm gonna call him Pat.
Like, how strategic
(49:24):
the Empire was being, especially with
Gorman, and how, like, the spy
and the espionage that was occurring
last week and then the build up here where
by the time people figured out what was really going on, it was
all too late. Like, they had won.
Well, in episode nine,
(49:45):
it just felt like every. Like, like,
like we're just gonna also show you how
stupid the Empire can be and
how easy it is to get around all of
these safeguards they have in place that
conveniently go awry, when they
want to get Mon Mothma, like, to give her speech
(50:05):
and then get out of there without any problems. I
was just like, what are we doing here?
Like, like, two steps for forward, three
steps back. It's just like,
be. Because it's also, like, to
your point, about, like, they're creating the villains. That's not
Mustach. Well,
(50:27):
Cyril's dead now, and
Deidra we don't see at all in the next
episode. Like, like,
there's another reason why those characters work as
villains is because we see. Seen them. We've gone
along with them. Like, like, it
allows them to get flushed back. And now in
episode nine, the villain is
(50:49):
the emperor. Is the Empire.
Like, it's more of a collective, as
opposed to these. These characters who
you can truly like point at and be
like, I don't like you, even though I understand where
you're coming from.
>> Will (51:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, as far as welcome to the
Rebellion, I think the. The. I. I
get what you're saying about the,
conveniences. And. And they were. But I
think, you know, that, you know, I think Lutheran and.
Yeah, because, you know, like, here's what, you know, Lutheran
set a lot of these things in motion,
(51:25):
way back, you know, for Example having Lot. You know,
having Lonnie's, The empty
m. The. The mole in the
isb, have his agent be part of
Bell Organis team. You know, and he, you know, so
making sure that that per. You know, it was.
All the things were like set up so that
(51:46):
as the tent. Because I. You know, for me, episode nine had
had a lot of good tension and stuff. Even though I knew the
outcome, all the execution of it
was just to. Yeah, it was just
a What I would call payoff for
all the things that have led to that moment. So.
Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. They were.
(52:07):
They were clear
conveniences of. But.
But to me it was sort of like is. Here's the. You
know, they have been looking forward to this moment and
of course it. And even to the point where when
Bill Organa and. And my month that
were talking, that he's like, you know, I won't see you
on Yavin because I gotta stay back here and
(52:30):
continue the work here in the Senate to like.
Because the time. The Things aren't
yet right for us to. To strike. As far as
the. The Alliance. So for me, it was just a
really good. Yes, there was conveniences, but it. But
it was earned conveniences because they had laid the foundation
for it.
>> Sarah (52:53):
what else do you want to talk about?
>> Will (52:56):
well, I mean, there's obviously the protagonist
himself. I mean Cassian and. And his. His journey.
you know, when we. When we first see. See them
on. In episode seven, to go back to the
messenger. and his role as far as,
The question of whether or not, you know, something that
kept going up back and forth
(53:17):
with. In that episode is. Is
whether or not it's fate or
destiny. you know, we do finally do get some.
You know, we get the. The force healer
and You know, in the. In the episode.
In this episode. And. And. And. And you know,
and I like. I like Cassian's reaction to it because
(53:39):
not only was. He's, you know,
skeptical of it, because, you know, he. You know, he
remembers back to, you know, when Marvel was ill
and they tried to use these force healers and stuff. It was just like a
scam and all that. So. And then whenever she
sees that, you know, whenever she touches him and.
And. And you know, and it helps
(53:59):
provide her clarity and stuff. Even though at that moment
it didn't provide clarity for Cassian, it did provide
some clarity to. For Bix as far as, you
know, that his.
Their journeys are not.
Their journeys are in Order for the rebellion to go
forward. She's, gonna. They're gonna have
(54:19):
to sacrifice their relationship,
in order for him to. To continue
the. The path towards rebellion. Because, I mean, all throughout the
episode, Cassian's like, I'm done. I'm tired. I'm ready to just
bell on this kind of stuff. You know, he's done with Lutheran.
He's done with it all.
>> Sarah (54:36):
And.
>> Will (54:37):
And so I really liked how they.
How they framed that to. To really,
you know, show, You know, you know, again,
to go. One of the themes that I've. That I've
seen throughout this series is. Is. Has been the theme of
sacrifice. And, you know, so of course we saw the
sacrifice with M. Mon and episode nine, as far
(54:58):
as you finally hit the
realization that she, you know,
when given that speech, she was, you know, basically sacrificing her
career, her family, you know, other. Other,
Other things. But, you know, for the
rebel, for, you know, for the cause,
and Cassian was having to do the same thing too. And then, of course, when
(55:19):
we get to. To the final episode, when Big Sleep gives him that.
Gives him that. That. That message, it.
It definitely, you know, really, you
know, reinforces, you know,
that. You know, that there's no way that. That for
now they're gonna have to like, So she's gonna have, you know,
they're gonna have to sacrifice their happiness for. For. For the
(55:39):
calls, for the. For the win. And so for me, it just
really, really resonated with that. And also. I know,
I know last week you were saying as far as it was hard for you
to, you know, get invested with Cassian and Bix, as far
as. I'm paraphrasing here, of course, but, you know, you thought they
were there the moment at the end of Rogue One.
Was he. Whether or not he was cheating or not on picks.
(56:00):
I mean, clearly he wasn't. He's just, She.
>> Sarah (56:04):
Was cheating on Vix.
>> Will (56:06):
Well, yeah, but,
>> Sarah (56:09):
I didn't know how much time, how much I could spend
invested in their dynamic when I
knew she wasn't around for Rogue One. And
so I felt.
Me. I felt more like,
oh, so. So they knew viewers
would suspect that Bix is gonna die. Like I was
(56:29):
suspecting by the end of this. This show because
she's not in Rogue One. So instead we're gonna do
this other thing and randomly. And I'm
gonna say randomly because I. I thought it kind of came
out of nowhere. I mean, I. I'm. I'm
not Stupid. I. I can. I did watch
the episodes, so I do know the
foreshadowing that they did, but I don't think they did
(56:52):
enough of it. And I don't think it was very clear.
But this is, again, a problem I've had with
this whole relationship since the first
episode. This season is where it has felt
very like, I don't know if I'm
supposed to be rooting for you guys or against each other, because
in one moment you're kissing, in the next moment you're.
You're fighting. And, there's a lot of, like,
(57:15):
anger and distrust and. And Bix had to work through
her ptsd, and it seemed like, in
a way, she got what she needed, and then she
bailed. Like. Like. And
I get it, the whole sacrifice, but Cassian
didn't sacrifice it. Bix made that choice for him.
>> Will (57:33):
And.
>> Sarah (57:34):
And it's also like. Like,
we. We get introduced to Cassie, and he's trying to find a
sister, so. So
now he's gonna try to also be trying to
find Bix for three episodes,
but he's not gonna find her. Like,
I don't know where I'm going with this.
>> Will (57:54):
I don't.
>> Sarah (57:55):
But, yes.
>> Will (57:56):
Yeah. No, I mean, to your.
I mean, to. What you said there was very important.
I mean, she. She knew that he could not make the choice, so she
had to make that choice because otherwise he
would not. He would not stick around
and go. And, you know. And the episode kind of
ends with that, with, you know, whenever they want
(58:16):
him to, come to, you know,
see the reactivation of K2. It was like, you know, they address
him Captain. Captain Andor. So, I mean, it was. It
was, you know, so they.
She had, you know, she had to nudge him to. To do it.
so.
>> Sarah (58:32):
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I. I'm not arguing that at all. It just.
I thought it was kind of an easy way
out for the writers
to. To make sure she wasn't in the. In the
next three episodes or in Rogue One.
sure.
>> Will (58:53):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (58:53):
And to resolve this relationship, which we should
have been rooting for, but I have been questioning this
whole time, so I was more
on board with Deidre and Cyril.
>> Will (59:05):
Well, yeah.
>> Sarah (59:07):
Better.
>> Will (59:08):
Yeah. I mean, as far as relationships go in the. In
this series, they. You know, they definitely. I
think that's part of whenever she was having her panic attack. You know,
not only did she. And I think she had. You know, I
think Dedra did have some realization, too.
She. She does have some blood on her hands because you know, she
was thinking Kaido would be the one to like, you know.
(59:29):
Yeah, you know, he had a purpose there. But at the end of the day,
you know, he would find out, told her it was like, look, I'm here,
but you're going to be the one that's giving the order here. It's going to be you
that's going to have the blood on your hands, not me. I'm just falling. You know, he's doing
the Nuremberg defense. I'm just like, I'm just here. I'm just
following orders.
>> Sarah (59:45):
Yeah, well, I don't know. There's something in the
way she, they performed it and portrayed it that I
felt like there was something else going on than just
like I wasn't supposed to press the button.
Like, oh, like
which, which we had spent so much
time with Cyril and that's why everyone
understood like the, the,
(01:00:09):
the irony with his
out out outcome and everything
and the who are you? Of it all.
But, but with her, I was like, if
we had just spent a little more time with her, we
could then see a bit more of the layers that
were going on. And arguably, even
with them as a couple, we got barely any
(01:00:31):
scenes between them as a couple to too.
So. And, and like I said earlier,
maybe, maybe I was more on board with that because
I feel like sometimes with Star wars writing
they belabor things they
over to explain things they over
explain. And arguably this, this can be
(01:00:53):
said for a lot of like,
like I want to say fantasy
genre shows. I mean I think Game of Thrones does
it too. But, but there, there's a
belabor of, of points where
it's like, okay, you've explained to me that three
times in three different ways.
But, but you're allowing no
(01:01:15):
nuances or, or little
nuances. Like, and maybe that's why
I have a problem like knowing
where this is going. Like.
And yes, I'm supposed to be on board for the
journey, but
I don't feel like they're fully taking
(01:01:36):
advantage of the,
the journey and exploring the nuances
as much as they could. So much as like,
I mean Will spoiled the Gorman thing for me
back in episode one, so I was
like, oh, so that's where we're going.
So, so how involved? And then to see
(01:01:57):
that play out, I don't, I don't know. It's just. It
feels more like we're being told history
than actually sitting
in the moments and sitting with some of the people
where we can, we can really feel. Feel
it. I Think I got a little bit more out of
that during season one than I am this season.
>> Will (01:02:19):
M. Well, I hear it. I, I, I, I, I,
I, I could see that point.
especially romantic relationships. I see. I think
for me, I do think that they did some, I mean, it was in a
weird, you know, they're very Cyril
Deadra way of like, showing
affection and stuff, which, whenever she like, laid that, hey, when she
(01:02:39):
laid that haymaker, that big kiss on him there in the hall
in episode seven, I was just like, wait a minute, this is like,
you know, you know, this is, this is coming from the lady who told
her, you know, told Zero to turn off the lights.
So, so, yeah,
so, yeah, so we did see those nuance
and, and on the nose moments in their relationship. so
I, I would take a little exception that they would. We
(01:03:02):
didn't get a glimmer of their, you know, we didn't get layers
of, of their, of their relationship there.
>> Sarah (01:03:07):
I didn't say we didn't at all. I just said like
I was trying to more make the point that
because there was few and far between,
I felt like I took more of an interest and
curiosity of what's really going on there than
I did with Bix and Andor.
>> Will (01:03:26):
Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, I mean,
yeah, I mean, I hear what you're saying. I mean, I guess for Bix and
Andor, for me, as far as their relationship, it seemed,
it seemed
believable to me for two people who
are trying to have a normal, trying to have
a normal as, as normal a relationship as
(01:03:46):
freedom fighters, you know, and people who are
in this, in this, in this situation
can have, with all the constraints
that, that, that surround it. So, you
know, every, every time they were, they would try to have a woman, like when
he was there, just even on Yavin at the beginning of episode seven,
they were trying to have a nice moment and then Wilman shows up. So it's
(01:04:06):
just like, you know, there was,
they, they had their moments, but it, you know, it
wasn't like the, I guess,
typical TV romance or whatever, for lack of a
better description of it.
But yeah, but I mean, but you know, but to your point too, I think, you
know, with Deadra and her, her, panic,
(01:04:27):
you know, let's go back to that for a
moment. I think the other thing too was just her realization that Cyril
was probably killed out, out there on the Right,
you know, in the, when the, when the things went
down in the streets. So I think it was a very, Again,
I Think very layered reaction, to.
To many things. And maybe her also realization that she also
(01:04:48):
got played. Just thinking about some of her, you know, her,
her transmissions of Paragus throughout the episode.
>> Sarah (01:04:53):
well, this was her idea from the get go.
>> Will (01:04:56):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:04:58):
Whether. Whether it played out and, and
sometimes. And maybe that's really what we
were seeing with her is like I had this
idea.
>> Will (01:05:07):
Yep.
>> Sarah (01:05:08):
This is how it's playing out. Like,
like when I had the idea,
it seemed like I couldn't
put faces to people or anything.
it like. Like there, there's.
I'm. I'm arguably the most curious.
I'm thing I am, interested in seeing
(01:05:29):
in these last three episodes is what they do with
that character because they have spent so much
time over the course of two seasons
with her. And for Cyril to be gone
M. You better get more than like one
episode with her. Like,
she needs to go out in a very similar
(01:05:50):
way that like we need some
satisfying way for her to go
out. on the same lines of Cyril. Now I don't think
they can drop Ciro's death, but,
they. They need to. They need to
have a full circle moment. I mean, I will
be honest though, because I saw some like
(01:06:10):
stills and I seen like Cyril
banged up and, and I, and I put down
together the rundown way before watching the
episodes. A part of me was like, oh,
is Cyril gonna join the rebellion?
Is that what. But, but
see, hear me out. Like, honestly,
there were a lot of moments where he
(01:06:33):
clearly wanted to. He clearly
was like, like going to.
But then he sees Cassie and that like that was
such a good scene. So like,
that was a good thing. Like, I can, I
can have my grievances with this
show and everything, but, when
I do like something, I really do like it,
(01:06:56):
about andor as a whole. So.
>> Will (01:06:59):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:06:59):
And then it keeps me through to watch the final
three episodes. So.
>> Will (01:07:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree that that was a good scene. I mean,
just because seeing him short circuit and then
all that was just happening around him and then, you know, he gets
locked laser focused again when he sees Cassian and it's the
brutality of that fight. And then he also has.
And then he short circuits again when Cassian's
like, who are you? Because, you know.
(01:07:25):
Yeah. And.
>> Sarah (01:07:25):
Yeah, and he has the moment where he,
he like you. You can see it. Like, it's
beautifully acted. It's. It. It's so.
It's so good that,
it's so. But I'm also. I'm not
sad that we don't get any more Cyril
because it's such a satisfying ending for him.
(01:07:46):
Like, I'm like, if you're gonna take him out, that's the way to take him
out.
>> Will (01:07:50):
That's the way to take him out.
>> Sarah (01:07:51):
So perfect. so,
yeah, anyway, I think that's a great.
>> Will (01:07:56):
That's a great place to finish our discussion tonight.
>> Sarah (01:07:59):
Yep. And on that note, Will, why don't you tell our
listeners where they can find you.
>> Will (01:08:04):
Yes, you can find me on all the socials at, Will and
Polk. W I L L M M P O L L K
And you can.
>> Sarah (01:08:10):
Find me there too@sjvillmont sjblm m o n T.
Please follow our crew on X, formerly known as
Twitter, @cedanerd on blue sky at
scenanerd and friend us on Facebook. Follow us on
Instagram and threads at
scene,_n_nerd and visit our
website www.score.
but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcast,
(01:08:32):
Spotify, YouTube or wherever your podcast. Good night.
Geek out. You're welcome.
(01:08:53):
Sa.
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