Andor's Grand Finale & The Last of Us 2 x 6: Reflecting on Loss and Legacy

Hey there, fellow nerds! In this episode of Scene N Nerd, Sarah and Will conclude their deep dive into "Andor" Season 2 with a look at the final three episodes. They discuss the heavy themes of sacrifice, loyalty, and the messy nature of rebellion, paying special attention to Luthen's goodbye and Klyea's vital role. You'll feel the emotional weight of the characters' choices as the stakes rise, especially regarding Cassian, Bix, and the tangled relationships that define their journeys.

 

They also explore Dedra's fate and Syril's heartbreaking storyline, illustrating how ambition and the need for connection can lead to surprising twists. As they reflect on the series finale, Sarah and Will emphasize how the show brilliantly blends personal stories with larger political themes, inviting you to ponder what resistance truly means and the true cost of freedom.

 

But that's not all! The hosts also delve into the latest episode of "The Last of Us," examining its emotional depth and how the characters evolve in this chaotic, post-apocalyptic world. They discuss the challenges the characters encounter and how their relationships transform amid all the madness. Plus, the connections between "Andor" and "The Last of Us" spark rich conversations about the human experience during tough times.

 

With insightful takes and heartfelt discussions, this episode is all about appreciating the layered storytelling that makes both "Andor" and "The Last of Us" distinct in their own ways.

 

Timestamps

0:00 Welcome

1:00 The Last of Us 2 x 6 "The Price"

49:00 Andor Season 2 Episodes 10-12

 

 

We’d love to hear from you! Follow us on X, formerly Twitter, @SceneNNerd, Bluesky @SceneNNerd.bsky.social, Facebook, Instagram, and Threads @scene_n_nerd. Check out our website at www.scenennerdpodcast.com. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave us a rating and a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast fix!

Episode Transcript

>> Will (00:00):
Opening Music

>> Sarah (00:15):
This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as always,
is our Mr. Producer, Will Paul. How are you doing tonight, Will?

>> Will (00:21):
Doing very well, Sarah. How you doing this evening?

>> Sarah (00:24):
I'm good. I'm doing good. On a Monday.

>> Will (00:28):
Yeah, it is a Monday. And I know we
decided to jump right in. I know I'm doing some
travel plans later in the week, so I wanted to get,
get our thoughts out there in the. In the interwebs
about the Last of Us and Andor.

>> Sarah (00:42):
Yep, yep. And like tonight
we're wrapping up Andor, and next week
we will return to our usual Tuesday time
slot and, share our thoughts about the season
two finale of the Last of Us. As
we just finished watching the Last of Us
episode, season two, episode six, the

(01:03):
Price. Joel surprises Ellie for her
birthday years later. And Ellie prepares to
confront Joel about her past.
So will I.
I, like, I'm, starting to become obsessed with
Last of Us Cold opens.

>> Will (01:19):
Yes, me too.

>> Sarah (01:22):
I just. And. And it's the perfect way, you know.
You know, I'm not a big fan of, like,
chronologically going. Then this happens and
this happens. But the way the. These episodes have
been written, there's like, to me, I
find it's. It's more easy
to do that, especially this episode. And we'll get into that.
But this cold open,

(01:44):
this one stands out too, because it's not from the
game.

>> Will (01:48):
Nope. No. And.

>> Sarah (01:51):
And honestly, the past three
haven't been from the game.

>> Will (01:56):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (01:57):
So. So, so it's. It's like, I
think that's another reason why they're standing out is
because it's allowing.
They're not from the game yet.
They fit perfectly in this story
is being told. and so the cold open
that we're talking about is, young

(02:19):
Joel and Tommy find
themselves. Well, Tommy finds himself in some trouble,
which leads to a confrontation between
Joel and his father,
mainly about. Why are you hitting us so
much? we. We know we do bad stuff, but
you're hitting us. but during the
conversation, the father, who's also a police.

(02:42):
Police officers noted,
basically explains, how. Yeah,
he hits them, but he does not hit them as far
as hard as his dad hit him.
and, and, and
then in an, in an.
In another way, the conversation is also

(03:03):
about protection and
how you're trying to take care of those
people you love. And so
it's. It's really interesting. It's a really good
setup. It, of course, leads to the line
when it's your Turn. I hope you do a little bit better than
me, which goes at the end. But. So Will,

(03:24):
what were your thoughts about this opening scene
between a very young Joel and
his father?

>> Will (03:32):
Yeah, so to your point about the cold
opens, it really does. I think
it really helps to set the tone for
these episodes and the,
and what is going to be the overarching
theme of. Well,
really, it's really, it's really just the. A theme

(03:52):
of some of the
lessons and
things that have happened with our characters up to this point.
And, and like, you know, for example, we,
when we get the first cold open when
they're in, whenever we get Isaac's backstory,
you know, really illustrates the why,
you know, the double LF and all the

(04:15):
things going on in Seattle and how, you know,
in the post apocalyptic world, how the
structure is in that, in that city last week
we had the cold open that really
has another parent having to, to deal with a
situation where their child is in a.
Has been put. Is in a. Has to make a hard

(04:37):
choice and, and the decision that the parent and the
child, you know, as far as the agency that her,
that her son had to make the decision.
And then this week we have
Joel and his father and, and, and the lessons
that Joel
parrots, sometimes good and bad

(04:57):
in part to their children and, and,
and Joel having to come, you know,
whenever, when he's had. Obviously he
had his daughter Sarah, but you know, she of course was killed the night of
the outbreak. And then
Billy became a surrogate child. And,
and, and so we're seeing,

(05:19):
you know, the cons, the consequences of
Joel's decisions from, from the moment they,
they left to go to Jackson to go to Salt
Lake City. And, and then of course the things that we see
again in Jackson Hole and
the events of Salt Lake City and the lie that he told.
We're seeing the cost, we've seen the consequences of that.

(05:40):
And, and how like you said, as, as
Joel's father told Joel,
you know, that you know, hope you do a little better
than me at the end of the episode. We do get that
with Joel. So as far as, you know, how he tried to
differentiate himself from his father. So all
these cold opens really just, I think

(06:02):
help, help pull me into
these stories because as I mentioned on our, on our show last
week and I've, and I know that
for, for episode five,
kind of like got, I got to that place where I was
just like, oh, I'm really missing, missing Joel.
And it really was really Pronounced to me as far as, like,

(06:23):
how the show's been different with him, gone.
But this week with the flashbacks,
pulled me back in and it. And it worked. not.
Not only because it was Joel, but because these cold opens just
do such a good job as just sort of setting up these episodes
and the, the. I guess the thesis that they're trying
to. And the question that they're trying to answer,

(06:45):
throughout that episode.

>> Sarah (06:51):
Yeah, yeah, last week is a stretch on
that, but I understand with,

>> Will (06:56):
Well, I think it was. That was. Yeah, yeah. I think what I. Last
week's was more just the overall bigger picture
choices that people have to make in dire circumstances.
But.

>> Sarah (07:06):
Yeah, yeah, and we're. We're not going to
redread on. On that. but I.
You can make some other arguments there.
so m. Let's stick to this episode
and move on to the first flashback,
which is, Ellie's 15th birthday.
And we find out that this occurred

(07:26):
two months after they had first arrived in
Jackson or returned to Jackson after the
events of Salt Lake City. and
this is honestly the,
See this. Maybe it's
because Bella looks like a child. I'm sorry.

>> Will (07:45):
Yeah, she does.

>> Sarah (07:46):
She really does. Like, So.
So seeing her act in this way
bounce off of Pedro, the happiness,
the. The joy it was is really
sweet. And then the banter, like
we've. We've been missing
the Ellie, especially in the first two episodes

(08:06):
when Joel was still around.
Yeah, we didn't get that because
we. She was dealing with some other.
And so really what these flashbacks are
doing is fleshing out the
context more of the first two episodes.
and. And filling in some. Some holes.

(08:27):
last week though, we saw Ellie pick up a
guitar and start to play it and she
started to sing a song. And then on her
15th birthday, that song that she
started to play and stopped very abruptly
was Future Days. And
we see Pedro play it as Joel

(08:48):
in this episode and sing it, to her.
apparently he was very nervous about this scene.

>> Will (08:54):
Yeah, I can understand why. Yeah, I know they
talked. I. I was listening to the, after show podcast
that, Troy Baker and Neil and Craig and they were talking about
that and how both
they didn't want to speak for Pedro. But then they did
mention that. That he was. And you know, Troy was.
Baker was like, oh, I was nervous too when I had to do this scene
in the. In the game whenever, he.

(09:17):
Whenever they recorded it. But also I guess they brought in. I
guess A voice coach to help Pedro with the scene and
whatnot. But, yeah, it was. It was very sweet. And, you know, I
think that, to your point,
I'm glad you. I'm glad you framed it that way. That we
have been missing that, you know, that. That
relationship between Joel and Ellie, because when we
did start the second season,

(09:40):
their relationship is clearly frosty. And. And
so, you know, so this is starting. I like the way that this
episode built up to, like, why.
Why the frostiness was there at the beginning of the year.

>> Sarah (09:51):
Right, right.
Okay. I want to make sure we return to that. But,
We. We also, We're also.
They're contextualizing other things
beyond just the birthdays and the dynamic
between Joel and Ellie. Like,
we hear about the burn and the. Where the

(10:13):
tattoo came. Comes from, but in the
events of these birthdays, we actually see
the. The, It play out because
on her 15th birthday, that's around the
time when she first purposely burns her hand,
her arm, because she really wanted to
wear short sleeves again. And. And I think

(10:33):
that why they decided to
contextualize that is because they
didn't want to
really belabor. They.
We're dealing with somebody who's going through the
teenage years. Right. And
so on top of all of the

(10:54):
hormonal changes, it's also questioning
of, who am I. Why am I here? Like,
identity and all of that. Now, on one
hand, Ellie. Ellie knows who
she is, but on the other hand,
because of the events of Salt Lake City,
and there's a doubt that's

(11:14):
a seed of doubt that has been planted, and
it's. It's evolving and manifesting
in these different ways with. And so her
wanting to wear sleeves again, it's like, I wanna.
I wanna be able to be honest with people and to tell
them the truth. Like, I don't want to lie anymore, even
though I feel like I'm kind of a part of this lie, that I

(11:35):
don't really know what we're lying about, but I do.
But I don't. And I don't understand. So.
So it's a very. It's a very interesting thing.
and on the flip side, you also have,
like, I. I don't know for sure how old
Sarah was in that first
episode. So a part of me also

(11:55):
gets the impression that, yeah, Joel had a
daughter. He did not experience or get
very far into the teenage years.

>> Will (12:04):
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's fair.
I mean, I really do think that's fair, especially as. As
things sort of Progress as Ellie
gets older.

>> Sarah (12:14):
Yeah, yeah. Birds and bees and,
and. And he's also, Jewel, Jill,
you, you don't understand women.
And as much as you may know Ellie or think
you know Ellie, there's also a side you don't.
So, any. Anything
you want to talk about specifically with this

(12:35):
flashback to the 15th birthday?

>> Will (12:38):
No, I, I think that really, I think you
really hit the nail on the head with it. I mean, I think it's just. This is
where Bella's look. Looking young. Even though
I think she's what in real fiction, in real life she's what, 22?

>> Sarah (12:49):
Yeah, yeah, she's. She's older.

>> Will (12:53):
Yeah. Let me apologize. Let me correct that they are 22. I
want to be. I want to be respectful of her, of, of
their pronouns. But yeah, Yeah, so.
Yeah, so that really does play well
to, to the Ellie's 15 year
scenes. and I was even thinking. I was. As I was watching episode,
I was just thinking that, you know, maybe. Maybe not consciously

(13:15):
but it. It did like now that you, that you raised
it. I was like yeah, that's. I was like yeah, that's, that's why this
is. This is actually. Is working so well because
of it. was almost. I feel
like some regards. Pulling back to that. To the first seasons.

>> Sarah (13:29):
Yeah.

>> Will (13:30):
Where. Where that, where that relationship that I
missed.

>> Sarah (13:33):
Yeah. Or just the, the
version of Ellie which,
Which changes because like
you go through those years and you come out the other side
different person.
I mean it's, it's a, It's a lot to go
through

(13:55):
especially like. I just want to belabor this point
point a little bit. Like
she knows, she knows. She's like she likes girl like
the sexual. Sexually. Her
sexual identity. She's knows for sure.
But. And so I find it
humorous that they kind of use that as a

(14:16):
joke or, or
throughout these three when really
it's more about purpose
and why is she here and she's
questioning other things. Like there's an, There's a
maturity also going on
simultaneously. But to continue
on the joy fest. and I, I do

(14:38):
remember this cut scene very
vividly. M. So
I was, I was just like. I had a big grin on
my face during this whole sequence on her 16th
birthday, where Joel
basically
allows her to fulfill her dream of
going into space. what. What are your thoughts

(15:00):
about this? And you yourself being a
father. And I'm sorry, Will, but this,
this gift. You
ever gonna be able to do that?

>> Will (15:13):
Oh, being a father
you know, I have to say the, I think that
being a father of, of two,
a now almost 20 year old now, and actually a
20 year old and and, and a 16 year old,
a boy, girl and a boy.
you know, this was a lot of memory, memory lane for

(15:35):
me because, and especially when Joel
took Ellie to, to the museum and,
and especially given
Ellie's love of outer space
and, and, and, and these kids,
you really, whenever they walked into that museum,
it really, really struck me in this world

(15:57):
that things like space travel
and just
the many, many f. You know, just
even applying on the plane. I mean all those things that we just
do now taking for granted,
they don't, they don't have it. It's almost like,
it's like a myth of old, of antiquity.

(16:20):
so to, to, for him to like find that
museum and, and
do this for her, for, for ellie on
her 16th birthday was just. Yeah, I mean,
I, you know, that, that, I reckon I, I
recognize that because I, I remember,
you know, Mouth, you know, a milestone birthday for my

(16:40):
daughter turning, 18. And it was during the pandemic.
And, and so I, I, I could
definitely identify with what Joel was
very, what he was doing there because
typically your 18th birthday is supposed to be a big, big
thing. Right? But because of the circumstances, you
know, we had had to adjust and, and,

(17:02):
but you know, but still was able to find something very,
very special for, for my daughter
when they had their milestone birthday, even
though, even though the world was shut down.
So Joel being able to do this was.
I really, really enjoyed that scene. I hadn't seen these cut
scenes from the game, so I, this was completely

(17:22):
new to me. Even though, even after, after the fact
I learned how they pretty much went
beat for beat, shot for shot with the set
and everything with this, with this sequence for her
birthday. But I really, really enjoyed it.

>> Sarah (17:37):
Yeah. Yeah. And going, going
to the museum, or to see the
dinosaur. It's when we start to get the first sex
conversation. M. Because for some
reason Joel thinks that Ellie fancies Jesse.
Okay. Okay. Yeah.

>> Will (18:00):
All parents have been there in some, some form or
fashion.

>> Sarah (18:04):
And, and then, and I like how they just plant
that seed and, and you think
like, okay, that subject's gonna die. But
no. One year later he catches her
not only, in bed with
Mel, but also Mel gave her the
tattoo to cover the scar.

(18:25):
And I just.
Oh, what?

>> Will (18:31):
And the doogie, the joint. So
that's why.

>> Sarah (18:34):
Oh, oh, yeah. I like, I, I don't
for some reason that did not stick out to me at all.
probably because we had already visited ah like a
pot shop at some point.
but, but so
this is where really the crack
like the everything in the

(18:56):
prior two that were kind of like
you. You could almost more of a
subconsciously like things. Things
were changing. Like this is the first crack
which leads to the
One of their biggest arguments.
and a line that I just. I

(19:16):
love so much. I love this line where
Ellie says no, this is
this is not your home. You, you don't own it. They
gave it to us. You don't own
anything the
way she delivers it.
And, and Pedro's
response was just

(19:38):
so well done because
you know like just watching it
that she's not just talking about the house
that she, she, she
definitely. And I think a part of her
as most teenage children do
has knows deep down she just

(19:59):
said something that she kind of wants to take back because
like it's true but
it's also like that's pretty hurtful
way to cut someone. And
yeah. And it's just. And, and but
it's also like she's

(20:19):
again trying to figure out like you're
not my dad and, and I,
I also am not your daughter. Like
also you can't act like I am
Sarah. So,
so, so she's trying to set
boundaries in a very teenage way.

(20:39):
and, and this also this escalation of
the argument leads to the how
Ellie ends up in the garage to
begin with because. Because that seems like
a healthy thing to do
and kind of more of like okay,
compromise here. I'm gonna get my own space.

(21:00):
But I'm still connected to your house.
I'm nearby, but it's mine.

>> Will (21:09):
Yeah. Yeah. Oh gosh. Yeah. It's just so
you know there's like I said this, I think this episode resonates.
Resonated with me in so many ways. Not only just
from my own personal life experience. Not that I've
had any kind of blow up like that but just, just
navigating as, as your, as your
young children become young adults. And

(21:30):
You know just I was telling before how we
recorded you know, picking up my daughter yesterday from.
Finished in a second year in college and and, and,
and that adjustment now that you
know that they've been out now for, for two years
and, and now back. Going to be back under the roof but having
to you know, navigate that and even with my 16 year old son the same thing.

(21:51):
It's just when I, whenever Joel walked?
Yes. Just did the, you know, at
least I try to always remind myself, like just do the,
not, not only the courtesy knock, but actually the, the knock and
like wait for the acknowledgment to come in.
but when he just barged in like that and you know, it was
just like, oh, yeah, I've had that parenting film, you know, more time

(22:12):
than I would probably wish to admit. I just bared into the room. Wait
a minute. No, no, no. I gotta respect their space. You know, they're young adults
now. yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah (22:19):
Do, did either of them dream
about moss?

>> Will (22:24):
No, neither one of them dreamed about moths, thankfully.
Or shared any dreams about moths or anything like that. Yeah.
Which again, again, to your point, it's like Joel thinking that he,
yeah. Whenever he had that conversation with Gail in the,
in the shop, it was,
it gets to your point again too. It's just like he,

(22:45):
he, he thinks he knows what's going on,
but, but it is. Even in this
post apocalyptic world, the,
the parent thinking they're in the know is still,
still, still pervades.

>> Sarah (22:59):
Well, it's almost, it's almost like
why, it's the optimistic
perspective.

>> Will (23:06):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (23:07):
It's a dream. She's dream, she's obsessed with
moths. Okay. I, the only thing I
know, like, like, I think
subconsciously he knew like butterflies
relate to changing and growing up
and all of that, but I think he
just wanted, he didn't want to think about what the
alternative was. Like again,

(23:29):
he, he, through all of this,
there's a complete,
there's also no, nothing that
is shown that Salt Lake
City is weighing on him at all.

>> Will (23:45):
Right. Right.

>> Sarah (23:45):
It's, it's an event of the path it happened. He's moved
on and, and he,
and he is trying,
whether consciously or subconsciously is trying to make
sure Ellie's moving on too.

>> Will (24:00):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (24:01):
So, so the, the, the fact. And,
and again, I, I like this scene with Gail,
which sets up the next flashback,
that we all kind of knew was coming.
But again, like with, with this
whole Eugene of it all.

>> Will (24:18):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (24:19):
From the beginning I've been like, yeah,
Eugene, like this character,
like Gail, like they weren't really around.
So now I, I,
I feel like the more I think about
this season as a whole,
the more I think that, what

(24:40):
is happening is that in the
first season we had an episode three,
a full episode dedicated to two
characters who were not Ellie and Joel,
but told a story that was
so relatable and then
tied it to the journey of Ellie and

(25:01):
Joel that you didn't feel like it was
wasted time. You just was like. It was like a
small portrait, a story within
this larger story.

>> Will (25:11):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (25:12):
And I feel like this season,
like there's at least two other.
Not full episodes, but half of episodes where you kind of
got the same thing last season. But I feel like in this season
in particular, because,
because of.
Because they are tr. They had.

(25:34):
They're having to focus in so, so much on
Ellie and Joel's relationship
so that. So that
the revenge that Ellie is
seeking is fully
motivated.
And, and, and. And right now in this
episode, we're also

(25:56):
fully understanding all of
her complex emotions that led
up to her last day with Joel.
Like. Like they are trying to
make sure that. That the world
or the story does not feel
as layered and complex,

(26:18):
arguably, as last season does.
Does that make sense?

>> Will (26:22):
That makes. That makes complete sense. Because, I mean,
this episode really, for me,
it really. Listening to
what your comments there, how this
episode actually made this season better for me, honestly.

>> Sarah (26:37):
Yeah. Yeah, it should. And
I kind of. I kind of figured it would because I knew one
scene in particular. I was like, okay, like
this.

>> Will (26:46):
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, the. Yeah. Ah, definitely the,
the museum scene, definitely that.
It definitely peaked my interest. I was like. I was locked in.
But, but yeah, but whenever. The
19th birthday and I' whatever getting to, you know,
pulling back in Eugene. But, you know, Ellie,
you know, whenever we start the season, Ellie
is doing the training and you know, we get

(27:09):
the night. Their 19th, her 19th birthday, and
she gets to, you know, go on patrol and, And, you know,
again, to what I was saying earlier is
really trying to establish that
Ellie is not a kid anymore. You know,
Joel started to treat. Treat Ellie as an adult,
you know, and I think, you know, it goes back to what I was saying about my,

(27:29):
you know, kids and being young adults and my
daughter coming back from college. It's like, okay, I got, you know, the relationship.
We all go through this. you know, I'm dealing with it now
as a. As a parent, but also just remembering when I,
you know, when I was 20 years old and, you know, the
relationship with my parents evolved and I'm sure you with your parents, I mean,
it's the same thing. And so, So I'm really,

(27:50):
really liking how they. How they're
using these flashbacks. I've seen some comments, like some
folks, you know, as far as some of the commentary out there, did
we need to have the full flashbacks? Could it be. Could these have been
interspersed in other episodes. I think it, it,
I think it
having a standalone episode like this is actually

(28:11):
a good thing because as a, to your point, what you were saying
earlier and now it just, as I said earlier,
it just makes this season to me, it has
elevated this season for me. Whereas before I, was, I was
starting to, I was, I was, I was having some
mixed feelings about it.

>> Sarah (28:26):
Yeah.
I, yeah, I, I think. Could,
could we these be like
cold opens? Absolutely. There, there's
so many ways you could have told this, this
story. But I, I,
I like the choice because it's different

(28:48):
and I always feel like you need episodes in a
season that, that fall out of the
same, the same
structure. just because, and
I feel like that that's why our
feelings about last week's episode were, our feelings is
because we were getting to a point. It's like, okay, this is

(29:10):
some more of the same. Where are we going?
Like, like you, you need, you need something to
change it up. And
and, and I think that's important. And, and I
also just the, the evolution of
it all, like these back, these
flashbacks weaving in

(29:30):
the Eugene, which we all knew there was going to be a flashback
episode of Eugene. Now I'm, I am kind of
grateful it wasn't a full Eugene episode.
and, and I,
I really like how this
all happens because
yes, again, Joel lies to

(29:52):
Ellie, but it's
also the
when, when Eugene is talking, like
when he knows he's going to die
and he's not getting his way, he can't go. Like they're
not taking him to go see Gail. And
he, he says, I'm dying.

(30:14):
I, I'm terrified. I don't need a view. I need
to see her face. Please let that
be the last thing I see.
Well, as soon as he says that line, I
just think about how Joel
is fortunate enough to have had
like the irony of it.

(30:37):
Joel was able to, see
Ellie as the last face
he'd seen. Right? Yeah.

>> Will (30:45):
Oh yeah.

>> Sarah (30:46):
Now think about the irony because in
last week's episode, both Nora
and Dina, at different points in time, tell
Zellie. You should have never seen it.
Like, it's worse. Not only
how it happened, but the fact that you saw it.
But the irony of that, like,

(31:06):
for Joel, it was a
blessing.
Like I was just like, oh, that's,
that's fascinating.

>> Will (31:15):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (31:15):
because, because in a way,
like, well, so, so
say, say Joel had done what Ellie had
wanted right
now, now would Gail still
be as pissed because
she. She then would have had to

(31:37):
seen.

>> Will (31:38):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (31:38):
If not Joel, someone else shoot him
in front of her.

>> Will (31:43):
Mm.

>> Sarah (31:45):
So like the. And I think at one
point, I think later on, Ellie.
Ellie calls Joel selfish.

>> Will (31:54):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (31:54):
And it's just the. The. The.
The. The need to. To have that.
That. That loved one that you hold the closest.
Have that big connection to wanting to see
them as last thing you see before you d.
It's actually. That is selfish.

>> Will (32:13):
It is.

>> Sarah (32:14):
So I don't know. But.

>> Will (32:16):
Yeah, it is. I mean, there's. I mean, I don't think
there's. Yeah.
I don't. I don't know if there's a right or wrong answer here. I mean, I think it's.
It's. It's, You know, because
I think, you know, with Joel's decision,
I think, in every. I think. I
think the through line though, is Joel

(32:37):
taking people's agency away.

>> Sarah (32:40):
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He. He.
He made the choice.

>> Will (32:44):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (32:45):
To do that. And
arguably it was protocol. Like. And. And
honestly. Honestly, in this case, I
kind of feel like it was the right one.

>> Will (32:56):
but.

>> Sarah (32:56):
But he also.
He didn't do a good job explaining,
like the. For me, you say,
take people's agency. I'm like, Joel just needs
to learn how to not lie to Ellie. Okay.
Can he not lie?

>> Will (33:18):
Can he not lie? I mean, and I love. You know,
it's. It's one of those. It's one of those things
and it's. It's hard because, you
know, he loves her so much and he's trying, you know, and he's
trying. He has this, like.
It is a very selfish thing because you, you do have this
image of yourself built up in your head
and you don't want to disappoint. I know. you know,

(33:41):
whether it's. Whether it's being a parent or in a relationship with
someone or your friends or whoever, it's just like you have this
thing and, And. And confronting
hard, you know, hard
choices or hard decisions and stuff. Some, you know,
you, You. You. You call yourself
protecting that person by not, You know, like Joel was trying to protect

(34:01):
Gail in that moment whenever they get back to. Back
to the camp, back to Jackson and,
And, And. But,
you know, but sometimes it
really. Sometimes you just gotta just
tell the. Buckle up and tell the truth. And Ellie calls
him out on it. And I, I know it's funny with the,

(34:21):
I couldn't help but think when I was watching that scene, the,
The. I did watch the preview last week for this week's
episode. and how they edited
that with, you know, you swore,
and it was actually this scene, not the, not
the, not the torch scene that they were really, you know, as far
as the one, you know, five
years, I guess, five years prior where what, what Ellie

(34:44):
was really referencing. But, but I think it was, but it was, I think it was everything. I
mean, at that point, Ellie. I think the other thing is
with these, with these, flashbacks too is
over time we were, you know, and we even see that scene of Ellie
and her once, once she does move out of the house into the garage,
you know, m Writing out the questions. Because at that
point she, she did, she knew something. Especially, you

(35:05):
know, whenever they were like walking. I think it was when they were
walking to the museum. They saw the fireflies or maybe when they were out on patrol.

>> Sarah (35:10):
No, when they were coming back. Back.

>> Will (35:12):
Coming back?

>> Sarah (35:13):
Yeah, from the m. Museum and.
Yeah, and, and everything. Yeah.
Like, I, I,
I found it cute that she wrote down the questions,
thinking about how Jesse told her right before
the council meeting, you need to write down
your thoughts. Why? Because

(35:34):
when you just say so, I
think, they, they, they did a good job
about also not
making these,
making tie ins that you expect
while also adding little things where
you're just like, oh, so

(35:55):
like, like the, the notes or,
just the dream conversation with
Gail, seeing Seth when like two
months, like it
contextualizes, recontextualizes
their relationships with the other people within
Jackson and how they found

(36:17):
themselves in Jackson. But that, that does
bring us to the Nine months later we
see the dance hall scene, but most
importantly, we get the actual full last
conversation between Joel and Ellie. And
I just, I need, I need your
100 honesty, Will. Because
I, I, when we talked about

(36:39):
the first episode or the
second episode, depending on which one, did
you really think that there was no
last conversation between Ellie and
Joel and that she really did just like
walk right by him and not come back?

>> Will (36:57):
Oh, gosh. You know, I thought about, when I was watching
the scene, I was trying to remember our conversation about, about that
whole get down. I think I, if I recall,
I want to say I was like, I was hopeful that there was one, but I
wasn't sure.

>> Sarah (37:10):
Okay.

>> Will (37:11):
Yeah. If I, if I recall, if I recall, I don't think I
wasn't sure if there, if there was one. And I was just
thinking how devastating if it was if they didn't have that
opportunity to like get to, to, to try to make
amends.

>> Sarah (37:23):
Yeah, yeah.
yeah, the,
I just, I, the. I go back
and forth about the scene because there's a lot of really good
dialogue that I love. I
will say, though, I did notice that
some parts. I thought it was better in

(37:44):
the game, from a performance
wise, because there, there's something about
pauses where
Ashley Johnson in the game, she,
when she did this scene, I remember
a lot feeling a lot more,
like, unsure. And,

(38:06):
and just her delivery, there was a
lot more like,
Like, I'm saying this, but I'm still
questioning. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm halfway.
Like, you're gonna have to meet me where I am.
like when she says, I'll try.
Like, there's a longer pause with the.
Like, I don't think I can forgive you for this.

(38:30):
And then. But I'll try. Like, there's a
pause and I feel like, Bella
rushed it. in my opinion,
that took it a me a little bit out of there.
And, and then I feel like they cut way too. Like,
I just wish that for this final
exchange there had been some more

(38:51):
silence to really
let the, the words hit
and, the processing of
the. Finally, the truth.
Now on the flip side.
Freaking Pedro. Like,
I, I love this man for.
Because we're getting some eye acting.

(39:14):
We're getting some, like, he doesn't really have to say
anything, but he's saying everything.
And it's just, it's just such a
beautiful response to.
Honestly, so much.
like, like, it's so. Like, I love
that side.

>> Will (39:32):
But yeah, yeah, no, I.
So as far as the performance, I think
both of them, just killed it. I mean, they did. and so
I, I, I, I. But I, I hear, I hear your, I
do hear what you're saying about Bellas. maybe the.
Paul's, the, could have like, done a few
different things. Or maybe, you know, and Druckman. Neil Druckmann,

(39:54):
who, who, obviously is creator of the game, directed this episode.
so maybe, you know, maybe he was just trying to,
for live action, directed it a little different from,
to, to distinguish it from the game. Because didn't this.
See that. I know that in the, in the game, if I recall,
isn't this the, the very last scene in Part
two?

>> Sarah (40:14):
No.

>> Will (40:15):
Okay. I thought. Yeah.

>> Sarah (40:18):
No, no, no, not Part two. No, no,
no, no. We're far from the final scene of
Part two.

>> Will (40:25):
Okay, well, no, no, but. Or maybe, maybe I
think. Or maybe it's like, or some, something about. Because I
remember them talking about it they depart. It was, it was a departure
from how it was, like, done in a game.

>> Sarah (40:36):
I, I, I'm pretty sure it
is shown later in the game.
M. But I,
So without trying not to give anything away
or anything.

>> Will (40:50):
Yeah, that's fine.

>> Sarah (40:52):
I know. I, I can see,
why they wouldn't want to save that, because
if they, if they didn't do it this episode,
how would you feel about having to wait another
year and a half?

>> Will (41:09):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (41:10):
And also, that wouldn't be the first episode
you're, you'd be talking about, like,
yeah, like, I, I,
they chose to, like, I, I see. I
can understand in terms of what they're trying to
do this season, why they would want to
do that early and not hold that back.

(41:31):
Yeah, yeah, so, so,
so that makes sense.

>> Will (41:36):
Got it. Yeah, but, yeah, yeah,
but just, but, but getting back to just the, the,
the, all the things going
on with, between Joel and Ellie taken out of the
production pieces of it, but just D.C. in itself.
yeah, I mean, you're right. I mean, whatever.
I had a couple thoughts too, as far as, like,
how, how they were portraying Joel and,

(41:58):
just overall in this. I mean, yes,
he's a selfish dude, but sometimes I was just feeling like
they were, like, it was almost for me sometimes overkill,
like how, how
they were making them be, like, a
selfish prick, you know, that wasn't, you know.

>> Sarah (42:16):
What do you mean?

>> Will (42:17):
I mean, because, I don't know, there's something about, I mean, I
mean, I get where, I get. Yes, it was a very selfish thing that
he, that, that, that Joel did, and,
but, you know, especially whenever he doubled down is like,
if I had to do it all over again, I would. Yeah,
but, but, you know, but on the other hand, and I know we discussed
this with the first, you know, whenever, you know, with

(42:37):
the whole thing that happened in Salt Lake,
I, I mean, I, I, I can
get where he's coming from, as
far as just not losing the one you love, but,
you know, but to your point, you know, you, you made a great point earlier
about, you know, he got, you know, it
was a twisted blessing that he did get to see the person he

(42:58):
loved the most at his last moment. Yeah,
so, so, yeah, so,
yeah, so it was just a very complex, complex thing, but at the end of
the day, him, you know, when she gave him
that last opportunity to finally
tell the truth, as hard as
it was for him to do it, you know, he, he did, you know,

(43:18):
they're pulling it back to the, to the cold, open he
did do a little better than his. Than his father did.

>> Sarah (43:26):
Yeah, well,
yeah, yeah,
yeah.

>> Will (43:33):
It's not a quantum leap butter, but he did better. You know,
he didn't. You know, it wasn't like his grandfather who, like, broke his
father's jaw.

>> Sarah (43:40):
No. And he. He hit Ellie and he never
hit the boys. He. He never hit
Sarah. Now, granted, his father didn't raise girls,
so.

>> Will (43:50):
Yeah. Yeah, he didn't hit.

>> Sarah (43:52):
So. So I. I just think
as a. As a parent,
though,
I think. I think Joel as a parent
is a very fascinating,
specimen. Because there's a
gap of time when he was

(44:15):
without a child.

>> Will (44:16):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (44:18):
So there. There's like
a nuance here where.
And something that. Again, why we have an entire.
Entire episode dedicated to these
flashbacks and specifically zeroing in
on this relationship.
Because. Because we haven't seen this

(44:40):
relationship in three episodes. And when
we got it in the first two episodes,
it was. It was fractured.
And, And there's
also, like, this.
Making sure the audience knows. No,
they were not biologically

(45:01):
related, but for all intents and purposes,
what they gone through and
the protection and the love, especially
from Joel to Ellie,
that was paternal and, for
all intents. And. And I love that. That
he says that, like you. I love you

(45:22):
in a way that you. You can never understand.

>> Will (45:25):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (45:26):
Yeah. Until you have one of your own. And,
And. And so to juxtapose that now
thinking in present day, that scene.
I'm gonna be a dad.
Like, they're doing a lot of really good
parallels here, with,
With the past, present and future.

>> Will (45:47):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (45:48):
And so. And that's
like. Like to
say. But I would like to try. Cut to
present day Seattle. And Ellie is walking away
from the hospital. Yeah. She's walking
in dead of night. And we know there's WLF
all over the place, and yet she's clearly just

(46:08):
walking. Ah. After probably
killing Nora and probably a few others to
get out of there.

>> Will (46:15):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (46:16):
Please make that right, Neil, because that bothers
me so much.

>> Will (46:21):
That's like. That's like, Like you were saying last week with Andor.
With Cyril, you know, all the laser bolts
flying around and he's somehow making it through.

>> Sarah (46:30):
Right? It is, it is. And
there's a lot of last week's episode of Last of Us where I was
just like, that's convenience. Convenience there too.
Convenience. but. But we're. We're
seeing. We're seeing present
day even
again. Even the bad lessons a parent

(46:50):
wants to give or like, like the bad
things they do. Pass down.
So. And Ellie is. Ellie is in
protection mode. Like, she. She,
she is. She is in. I'm getting my
revenge. I don't care who's in front of
me. And I. Yeah, I'm gonna kill

(47:10):
you all. So.
So yeah,
if she had to do it all over again, she'd still go and kill
Nora.

>> Will (47:20):
She would.

>> Sarah (47:21):
She has no, no guilt about that.
But.

>> Will (47:25):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (47:25):
All right, well, that sets us up for the
final episode that we will talk about next week.
and that brings us to the final three
episodes of Andor season two.
We have episode 10, Make It Stop,
episode 11. Who else knows in episode
12, Jetta, Kybro, Erso.

(47:49):
Kybera. Ah,
Kyber.

>> Will (47:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Kyber Crystal. Yeah.

>> Sarah (47:56):
Yeah. Will, what did you
think about the last three
episodes of the Andor?

>> Will (48:03):
Oh, gosh, I. Yeah, as you can
imagine, I absolutely
loved the. These episodes.
really, to me was like. It was a final.
It was, in some respect, yes, it was a series
finale, but also to me also felt like a. A
penultimate episode too, because

(48:24):
the final. The. The. The
season or series finale is. It's clearly
Rogue One. But I, but you know, before,
for the three episode chapter of just keeping it back
to this, to these three episodes, it. To me it
did what it needed to do, which is all these characters
that we have been introduced to the last

(48:44):
two seasons, we do,
you know, we get, We. We get their stories.
We see the ramifications of
all of the decisions that were made. We, get a,
you know, episode 10, which I think was, I think
10. And, and the final are the two
ones that stand out. To me, 11 was also very good, don't get me

(49:04):
wrong. And I think you, know, I think I, I think people probably seen the
imd, database. I think it's like the first
show, at least as of when I saw it over
the weekend, I had like, you know, five episodes
in a row with nine and a half or higher as far as the audience
scores. But just for me personally, I, I
love these. This arc. and I. And I

(49:24):
did as you could. You probably won't be
surprised, Sarah. since I finished episode 12, I went
straight into Rogue One. I did. And it
really. Everyone, I will say, does hit differently now
after watching this. Watching this series
in a good way.

>> Sarah (49:43):
Well, well, somebody told me that in
about two weeks we were gonna watch
Rogue One and talk about it on the show, but so I
didn't go in. Even though I kind of
wanted to just throw it on and have it. In the background.
But I didn't.

>> Will (49:59):
Yeah, I couldn't help it. I was so.
I, I needed more. After, after I finished the
finale, I did. I was just like. Even though it was like,
it's like, late, but I, I, I, I, I was just
so pumped, especially with the, with the,
the montage scene, the.

>> Sarah (50:16):
Long montage that would definitely.

>> Will (50:18):
Oh, I love the montage. And the music, and it just builds up.

>> Sarah (50:21):
Of course you love it. I'm talking about. I'm
trying to get my thoughts in there, sir.

>> Will (50:26):
Yeah, I do. Okay, I, I will shut up now because I,
I will completely gush. Y. Everybody knows I love
this show, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna sit back and let
you bring, you know, calibrate the
enthusiasm.

>> Sarah (50:40):
I love the stutter. I didn't fall asleep
during it. Although I will be honest,
there are a few times I was going to. I
was bored. Yeah, I.
So having just admitted that,
a part of me did want to throw on Rogue One
right after watching the last episode. Yeah.

(51:00):
This, the, the series. The series, and
especially these last three episodes did what they were
supposed to do and intended to do.
Did I enjoy watching them? it was all right.
I am just. I just
felt like the first episode,
episode 10, Make It Stop, was interesting because I

(51:22):
was not expecting to see
Luthen's Swan Song, as I call
it. I call this episode Lutheran Swan Song,
because we get his flashbacks. And then also
Clea. We get so much more Clea.
And I've just been like, girl,
you've been around. But if I knew you were

(51:43):
this interesting, why haven't we been shown more
of you from the start? Like, I would like to be more
invested in you, but I'm getting it a lot at the end. And
I think that's, like, a little bit of my problem
where I, I just.
Some of these characters, like,
for me, as someone who's not

(52:04):
overly invested in the lore,
who's not overly invested in, like, the
historical events of this universe or anything or
the timeline, I, I
just, I am. I'm finding that there were
a lot of really interesting characters, and I'm just
like, why couldn't we spent more time

(52:24):
exploring them? Or I, I would feel more
attached because by the end of it, Luthor, then I
didn't even feel that attached to.
Yeah. Yeah. And. And yet, he.
He's a fascinating character who.
I just wish we had felt.
I don't know. I don't know what also took me

(52:46):
out of it. A little bit is I felt like I
kept predicting death. Like
who. I just, I just was
like, okay, and, and
Lutheran's gonna kill that guy. Yep, that's
gonna happen. And then this is gonna happen.
And then it just, it just started to

(53:07):
be like, okay, can, can we at least have.
Can somebody continue to live? But.

>> Will (53:12):
Well, a lot of people actually. So I take a little
bit. So I had the opposite. I was,
I was actually a couple things. one, I think
Clea was an interesting character throughout.
I will say. I think the second scene, I think the
second, the back half of the second season did,
because I did give.

>> Sarah (53:33):
Her.

>> Will (53:35):
Showed more as far as their relationship.
So that whenever episode 10 does happen, you do see
it really, to me it fleshed out like
her true role as far as
keeping things tidy with the the
rebellion, you know, because I, as I, as I, as I watched
it especially like whenever she was and in her last moments

(53:57):
together, whenever, you know, whenever you told her to like,
you know, she told him to like, you know, tuck in your shirt before, before
Dedra showed up and you know, and all that kind of stuff.
you know, to me it was. I, I
even thinking back to some of the spycraft and you know,
and some key conversations she had with
Cassian, I think she played a pretty important role

(54:18):
to me.

>> Sarah (54:18):
At least I didn't say she didn't.
I just said I would have liked to have spent
more time with her.

>> Will (54:26):
Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Well, I would like to spend. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. Well, I
would like to spend, you know, spend more time with all these characters.
I mean, you're right. I mean, I think the, I mean I think that
was the, the blessing and curse of the, of the
arcs and compressed in it from a five season show to a, two
season show. But.

>> Sarah (54:42):
Yeah.

>> Will (54:46):
Yeah. Okay. I just want to be clear. I
wasn't, And so that's why, that's why I asked that. That's why I
asked that question. Okay. And I agree with you
there. Yeah. Oh, I just. Well, maybe I
made that statement as far as some of, some of Clay's
things and, and, and that's why I just further said that. Yeah, I would agree. I
do agree with you. I wish I could have spent more time with

(55:06):
some of these characters.

>> Sarah (55:08):
Yeah, yeah. what else
do
you gotta help me through this, Will.

>> Will (55:16):
Okay. Okay. Usually. Okay, I
will, I will try to. I will. Well, since
we're talking about, Lutheran, because I mean, I think he.
To me, I think to your. Another thought I had
was Just as I was watching this arc and I think let's just do
it by characters instead of doing about episodes because I think,
with these arcs, they're clear through lines

(55:38):
throughout. And. And sticking with Loofin,
really see his, his shadow,
just his presence
throughout everything. With these episodes, of course,
you know, we do get the, you know, the, the very.
And I will say the thinking as
we think about to our conversations of the last of us

(55:59):
and and the dynamic as far
as people have to make hard choices for
people they love and you know, Clay having to, you
know, make the hard decision. Well, I mean she made, you know,
she, she. Whenever things were going
forward, I was wondering, okay, is she going to try to
break him out or she's. Is she there going to go there to like

(56:19):
finish him off? Because at the end of the
day he can't be res. He can't be,
They can't recuperate him to. Because he would spill everything.
So, you know, so she made the, you know, every. You know, it
keeps going back to we. That,
you know, I think back to Lutheran speech in the first season. I mean he. He
knew that he was not going to see that sunrise of

(56:40):
freedom. And so, you know, and, and
so when Clea did what she had to do to you to.
To pull the plug, I mean it. It made complete sense
for me. and then also
just later, later into episodes when, you
know, Cassian has, you know, whenever the.
The. The Lufin's not being a team

(57:00):
player and and.
And Cat and the senators, you know, around the
council
room. M. You know, bad mouthing him and stuff. And
you know, Cassian's like, look, you know, don't. Don't, you
know, take paraphrase, Will Smith, you know,
take your. Take his name out of your. Out of. Out of

(57:21):
your mouth if you're going to be bad mouthing him. Because, you know,
if. If it hadn't been for Lutheran and doing all the sacrifices and
one of the things that Cassian like reaches out and says, like, hey, you know,
if it wasn't for him, y' all wouldn't be here.
So as far as.

>> Sarah (57:34):
Did that, come out of left field in terms
of how the council felt about Luthan?

>> Will (57:41):
yes and no. I think
I, I think it was for. For those two senators.
I think, you know, we. We were seeing that tension especially
in that. In the previous arc when. Welcome to the Rebellion.
you know, some of the. And
also, you know, we always had the partisans like Saul

(58:03):
as well. It it
on the one hand, I get where they were coming from.
especially the, the two senators who
were, you know, clearly bad
mouthing them. Bell Organa. I was
like, you know, he was kind of on the fence. He. To me,
he, he, he. He got what Cassian was saying and he

(58:24):
understood it. But at the same time, you know, he did
play some hard treats to Cassian. Like, look, you know,
you're your man.
You know, he didn't come under the fold unlike the rest of you.
So, so I think there was. So I thought it was, I thought it
was really showing the messiness of,
of, of the alliance coming together.

>> Sarah (58:44):
Yeah. I, to me, it
felt out of left field. I felt like, I mean, to go
back to what you just said before with the.
You're cutting a story from five seasons to two
seasons. Like, I understand
why they had to kind of make him an
outsider and, and the Coruscant of it all

(59:05):
and, and him. and
I can. The only person who I, I bought
any of it from was Mon Mothma.
But that's also because we spent multiple
episodes seeing their dynamic.
And this season in particular, from
the first episode with, or the first

(59:27):
three episodes with her having like,
him killing her closest oldest
friend because of that, like
I. And then leading to the
welcome. And the tension between them
throughout. Welcome to the Rebellion episode.
Like, I understand her. The others.

(59:48):
I was just like,
what.
It just for me as a viewer, it.
There was a disconnect there. that's all I'm saying.
That's just how I feel about it.

>> Will (01:00:02):
Yeah. I mean, I think they're. Well, for me, I.
And maybe this is our level of engagement with
this show. is to me, I think it's.
For me, it didn't come out of left field. Especially when Cassian like,
you know, calls him out on it. As far as, like, you know, y' all
have made a fraction of the sacrifices,
right? Yeah.

>> Sarah (01:00:21):
I think Cassian's responses all
made sense. Didn't come out of left field. Yeah, I
just, I thought like, I was just like, well,
how did, how did any of this happen? Like we've
been told Lutheran's mastermind for this whole time,
like, why are you guys acting like he's a
traitor? So I don't know. It just felt weird

(01:00:42):
to me. But it also did allow them
or allow a. A interesting
hesitation for. Or
Clea who. With the flashback
episode we see Clee as a young girl
where I felt, I felt more. These. These
three episodes, what I took interest in is

(01:01:02):
like. Like I've never questioned
why is CLE involved in this? Like,
what drew her to the cause? And.
And I don't. I don't know if this is about making hard
choices, but it's about. The reality is
you are never going to have that normal life.
And it's the exact same thing that Bix and Cassian

(01:01:24):
were arguing about in the first
episode. And. And you're throwing
this. This away, and you're also
causing some of the chaos and
the destruction and everything. Like, you're,
You're. You're. You're contributing
to it. You're a co. Conspirator, whether you like it or
not. So. So. And

(01:01:46):
then to find herself, like, with these.
This information and
the fact that her. Her
mentor, her father figure
is now dead and died for
it. She
just is like,

(01:02:06):
she. She's lost. And. And I
don't know. They. It, was very interesting. And then like, why would I
want to return go to Yavin? And
I like how Cassian put it, like. Like, you'll get a
hero's welcome. And like, don't you want
to see the place that you built?
And so I can. I really like the

(01:02:27):
irony, I think of.
Of Clea. Much like how I
like the irony that plays out with dear
Deidre and the.
Her wanting. Having found access
only for her to be put in jail.
The, Like, it's an irony. Now, I did say

(01:02:49):
last week Deidre better get a.
A good ending. Do I think this was a
good ending? It was all right.

>> Will (01:02:58):
It was the perfect ending. It was the perfect.

>> Sarah (01:03:00):
It wasn't as good as Cyril, but, it'll
do. I just wish again we spent
more time with Deidre. I felt like we barely seen her,
and next thing I know, she's being tossed in jail and I'm just
like, oh my God. But. But yeah. Yeah,
it was.

>> Will (01:03:16):
Yeah. I thought it, For me, I thought that was the perfect.
You know, the perfect ending for her is this. She's got it.
Like, she, you know, because whenever. Whenever
Krennic was interrogating her and yeah, it just showed
like the scene where he like, you know, put his thumb, you know, put his
finger on that stuff, which apparently was completely improvised. But
you. Whatever. One of the thing. The other thing

(01:03:36):
that stuck, you know, stuck out with me with that was like, you know, she.
She. You know, if you're not a real rebel
spy, you missed your calling. because,
you know, because I think back to her conversation early
on with part of guys as far as whenever she was
fixated on access, even though they had given her
the Gorman assignment for her to really to, to,

(01:03:58):
to, to help with getting the Death
Star built and all that kind of stuff. Because she was one of the few people around
that, you know, that did know exactly what
the true nature, what the true nature of the energy program
was and, and then how her,
her, you know, one of the other fascinating
things too with, with, with her was like, because,

(01:04:19):
because of her ambitions and everything and, but, but the
how, again, the mistrust, you know, to your,
you know, to something I think they really did a
good job of showing on the, the Empire side.
Probably better. I think maybe what you're, maybe
what you're possibly getting at was like the
why the senators

(01:04:39):
seemed out of place as far as. With
Lutheran was the mistrust. because I think they did
do a, you know, you know, with the, with this, with the
isb. they, they really did have that
dynamic. You know, thinking back to the first season with, with
Dedra and, what's his name? Bissell or I can't remember
the other agent. But, her
pushing back to Krennic was like, I had to become a scavenger

(01:05:02):
because y' all didn't like, you know,
you turned me into one. I
really thought that that line really resonated with me
whenever she and Krennic were going back and forth.

>> Sarah (01:05:14):
Yeah, yeah, it was, it was a good,
it was a good scene. I, I like all of Deidre's
scenes always.

>> Will (01:05:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but yeah,
like I thought, like I said, I thought that was her ending was,
was fitting to. She just has to sit there and just,
you know, she didn't get the, she didn't get the easy way out like Cyril did
after, after his whole, you know, Cyril's threat. I think Cyril's
death is even more tragic because he, you know.

>> Sarah (01:05:41):
It is.

>> Will (01:05:41):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (01:05:43):
Because it was his whole life too. Yeah.

>> Will (01:05:45):
Yeah. I mean, his whole. In that span of like
that in Gorba, his, Everything just came crashing down. And then
when Cassie just does the. Who are you?
That was just. Yeah, Yeah. I think
Cyril's of the characters that, that came out of this show.
I think he was definitely one of the ones that somehow I ended up. I was,
I was really sympathetic. I had, you know, I was, he

(01:06:06):
was sympathetic to me. I, I, I, I,
I Sneaky. Really like Cyril.

>> Sarah (01:06:11):
Yeah, yeah.

>> Will (01:06:14):
yeah, but, yeah, but then the rest of it too, you know, as far as, what
part of gas, you know, whatever His. You know, speaking of people's
endings and you know, I really like the scene with
the. With the. Whenever, He's like. I had to
collect my thoughts. And as soon as they. As soon as he said that, to your point, I mean.
Yeah, we knew where that was going. but also
whenever the stormtroopers
were, you know, heard a shot and large, it was like,

(01:06:37):
nope, nope. You know, so just. I
don't know if it was trying to protect what dignity part of gas
had left or. Or what. But, I thought that was a.
Thought that was a. Yeah.

>> Sarah (01:06:47):
And he didn't understand that so he
was gonna get blamed for something.

>> Will (01:06:53):
Yeah, well, you know, because Dedra. Yeah. The whole ISB
basically, like, you know, and they set it
up with. Earlier on when.
When Krennic and. And part of Gods were
talking after. Yeah. you know, because,
you know.

>> Sarah (01:07:08):
Oh. Because. Because it. They fail to
stop the, Stop. Get
clea. And that's really where.
Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, that
makes. That makes sense. It was just an awkward.

>> Will (01:07:22):
Yeah. Yeah, they set it up earlier.

>> Sarah (01:07:25):
Awkward.

>> Will (01:07:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So whenever. The whole thing.
Because that's when. When part of guy throws it back to Krennic. You know,
saved the speech for the. For Palpatine. Yeah, that. That. Yeah. So
that was that whole context there. So. Yeah,
so. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, we got, you know, of course we did get our
K2, scenes and you know, of course
the hallway scene with K2 and the, you

(01:07:48):
know, dead. the kid who, like, actually ended up, you know,
replacing Deadra even though he, you know,
so we had that, And, you know, I like the whole K2.
The. The scene with K2 and. And. And
Mil, she and Cassie and also,
you know, playing poker there after. You know, I guess
this. After Bix has moved on and

(01:08:08):
Cassian was, You know, I guess he just, you
know, he's like, okay, established my life. Now I'm a bachelor. And
you know, so he thinks. And he just is having. Having a night out out with
the fellas. But these were the kind of scenes I liked about this
show too, because it just kind of help with that
groundedness as far as just like, yeah, all these things are going on,
but, you know, people are still doing just

(01:08:28):
regular, you know, regular things. And. And, you
know, And. And, you know, even thinking back to like, when Cassian
was making dinner for Bix, you know, those little texture things, I really just
really like, really enjoyed about this series.

>> Sarah (01:08:42):
Yeah.

>> Will (01:08:43):
Yeah, yeah. Oh, I have to. But before we.
Before we end I had to, I do have to ask. What do you think about the Bix
of it all?

>> Sarah (01:08:50):
The books of it all? so I will admit
that on, like, Wednesday
or Thursday,
randomly on my for you page, like, the
scene came up. I feel the
whole time. Yeah, I
just. Cool. I, I'm like,
I, I'm totally checked out on that

(01:09:12):
whole dynamic. So I was like, okay,
cool. She has a child.
That's. That's awesome. He's gonna die and never
come. And. But he also,
like, I just don't think
they handled that correctly. I don't
think that they. I should have, as, as
somebody who ships. And when I ship, I ship

(01:09:34):
hard.

>> Will (01:09:35):
You do.

>> Sarah (01:09:37):
So. So when it doesn't work,
it's that much more concerning. Okay.
Because it should have, it should have. I should have been like,
oh, well, at least. But the way
they dealt with it this season, it just,
it felt rushed. I didn't feel
like they're, Especially this,

(01:09:59):
these last three episodes, like, what
we get in only, does Vel
mention to Cassian to
reconnect with Vix in the last episode?
Yeah, yeah, the very last episode. And
it's like, it's only been a
year, and yet

(01:10:19):
he's clearly just,
just, just doing his thing, perfectly fine.
Like, like, it's just weird to me because
he's also the one who
wanted to give it all up for her,
so I would have expect. I think there
should have been something else. Like, there should have

(01:10:41):
been more m. More,
more of a torch, per se.
but, but yeah, so, so when they show
her, Emma's like, okay, cool, cool.

>> Will (01:10:51):
Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah (01:10:53):
Escape alive and is able to have her family
without the father. Awesome. Good for you, Bix.

>> Will (01:11:01):
Yeah, I, I, I, I see that. I mean, I, I do
see, because not from the shipping standpoint or
whatever, but just more. I mean, I,
I do. I mean, on the one hand,
I, I see your point. On the other hand, I could see where she.
Again, she,
she, he. But even if she says that she,

(01:11:22):
he would have talked her, you know, he, he would have talked her out
of it.

>> Sarah (01:11:25):
This is nothing. My criticism,
like, don't get me wrong. My criticism not about her.
It's about him.

>> Will (01:11:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, I got it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah. I get it. Yeah, yeah. yeah, so,
So I told. I totally get that. Totally get that. Speaking of, Speaking of
Val, I did like the fact that they did have that scene between
Cassian and Val just to, like, you know, toast
to all the, to all the fallen along the way.
I, thought that was really, really good. And. And also to the

(01:11:53):
schedule going back to party, guys, also just to hear Nemec's, M.
Manifesto being played right before he, As he. As he.
As he goes to, As he. As he ponders his fate.
And this. This, as far as tyranny, requires an
unnatural effort. It breaks. At least oppression is the mask
of fear. I thought that was just. Just again, chef's
kiss. As far as this, we were just in

(01:12:14):
getting through the end here, of the. Of the. Of the
series. And also, like I said, it may be. And like I said,
I mean, you know, I've made no secret how, you
know, I do see the historical parallels in real life
with a lot of things that happen in this show. And so maybe that's
just. Maybe another reason why it's just been, like, resonated with me,
and, you know, with some of the. With

(01:12:35):
some of the things that were going on there.

>> Sarah (01:12:38):
Right.

>> Will (01:12:39):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (01:12:39):
Was he listening to that or were
they just playing it over?

>> Will (01:12:44):
He was listening to it because, remember, he was listening because he actually went, out when
his friend, when his, compatriot came in. He
pressed the stop button.

>> Sarah (01:12:51):
Right, right. Okay, that's what I thought. Why
was he listening to it?

>> Will (01:12:55):
I think he. I think he realized the futility
of it all. He was of. Of what?
Of the Empire. I think he.

>> Sarah (01:13:03):
No, no, I understand that.

>> Will (01:13:06):
Yeah.

>> Sarah (01:13:06):
But see, it seems weird to me,
like. Like, had he heard it before?
Like, I don't think you can answer the. These
questions honestly, but. But,
like. Like, they had. They had because
where. Where did he even get it from?

>> Will (01:13:25):
They confiscated it from Cassian because, remember,
Cassian happened in the first season.

>> Sarah (01:13:30):
Okay, so Cassie, not in the first. Okay, okay.
That all falls. So they. They had listened to it
and then. Okay, what? It's been
like three or five years? Yeah, it's been a long time
since the first season. Interesting.
Yeah. Yeah. So. Okay. Okay.
Yeah, I like it. Don't get me wrong. I

(01:13:52):
like it, but it's also kind of, like, weird.

>> Will (01:13:55):
Yeah, this is. This is why I'm here. This is. This is why I'm m. Here for you.
I'm here for you to help her pull fill in the
blanks.

>> Sarah (01:14:05):
Yeah, yeah. I just. I just like. I like the
choice, but it's also kind of like m. That's an
interesting choice for someone who's, But,
yeah. Yeah, all right.

>> Will (01:14:17):
Yeah, but like I said, I. Yeah, yeah, It. It. It
I really, really enjoyed this series. Definitely will be
going back to it. If folks, if you
did, if you listen, one little thing for folks, if you are,
are nerded out about it, it's me and you've probably already done it
anyway. But but if you do listen to the end
credit, if you watch the end credits, there's a nice little,

(01:14:38):
you know, do hear the. As a. As I
mentioned earlier, you know, the songs do
change from the more electrical electricity
electronica theme beat to the more orchestral
and you know, going into Rogue One. But at the very end of the credits
they do have, they do play the original Star wars theme.
So, so just for, for those folks

(01:15:00):
who are. Yeah, so just
wanted to, wanted to drop that for, for folks.

>> Sarah (01:15:07):
All right, well, on that note, Will, why don't you tell our
listeners where they can find you.

>> Will (01:15:12):
Yes, you can find me on all the socials at, Will
and Polk. W I L L M P O.

>> Sarah (01:15:18):
L K. You can find me there too at SJ Belmont. S
J B E L M M O N T. Please follow our crew on X,
formerly known as Twitter @Cena. Nerd on Blue sky
and friend us on Facebook. Follow us on Instagram and
threads at scene._n_nerd and
visit our website,
www.scenanerdpodcast.com. but most
importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcast,

(01:15:38):
Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're
welcome.